--- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...> wrote:
>
> I helped rescue a linotype for the System Source vintage computer
> collection
> vintagecomputer.net/linotype/
>
> I had to disassemble to get into my car, took five trips.  It took me
> almost two hours to re-assemble and run a few test prints.  More
> complicated that they look.
>
> Bill


That must have been a lot of fun.  Did you have to make many notes on how things
were disassembled?

I was just a kid when I went with my dad to move one of these, so I don't
remember much.  But when I was watching the Linotype film with my dad, he went
on to give me all kinds of details regarding tricks and pitfalls during
re-assembly of these machines.

Two hours to reassemble? That's not long at all!  I guess it depends on how much
was disassembled?

Good to see guys here with ink and metal in their blood!

On 12/11/2012 01:19 AM, joshbensadon wrote:
>> I helped rescue a linotype for the System Source vintage computer
>> collection vintagecomputer.net/linotype/
>>
>> I had to disassemble to get into my car, took five trips.  It took
>> me almost two hours to re-assemble and run a few test prints.  More
>>  complicated that they look.
>
> That must have been a lot of fun.  Did you have to make many notes on
> how things were disassembled?
>
> I was just a kid when I went with my dad to move one of these, so I
> don't remember much.  But when I was watching the Linotype film with
> my dad, he went on to give me all kinds of details regarding tricks
> and pitfalls during re-assembly of these machines.
>
> Two hours to reassemble? That's not long at all!  I guess it depends
> on how much was disassembled?

   Uhh, yeah.  You got snookered. ;)

> Good to see guys here with ink and metal in their blood!

   It's good stuff!

                 -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

On 12/09/2012 10:00 AM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
> Dave, I have a d|i|g|i|t|a|l StorageWorks rack in my garage with a
> HUGE cache of SCSI storage and dual HSZ-50s.  I know you mentioned
> HSJ-50s.  Since you are traveling from the western part of Penn's
> Woods, you might wish to travel a little lighter for VCF.  I could
> supply more than ample disk storage with that StorageWorks array,
> assuming you've got HVD SCSI controllers in your kit.  I will bring
> some MicroVAXen and, of course, the virgin 10base5 "etherpipe" and
> H400* transcievers and AUI cabling.  Depending on how much kit is
> to be networked, cheapernet might be needed to extend the network.
> And, for some giggles, I'll toss in a DTC01.

   Sounds great to me!  Definitely bring the AUI cables; I am short of those.

   Bringing along those HSZs would be fun, but since I'll already be
putting a VAX 7000 on a liftgate truck, bringing the rack with the
HSJ50s, drives, and star couplers isn't a big deal.  I may also bring a
small (heh) PDP-11 to put on the network to demonstrate heterogeneous
DECnet networking in addition to VMS' clustering capabilities.

   Now, I know you're about as much into games as I am, but we'd need to
show off some games at VCF, otherwise the non-technical visitors simply
will not be interested.  Are you aware of any DECnet-enabled
multi-player games that we could use to show off either clustering or
DECnet?

              -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

--- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...> wrote:
>
> > Two hours to reassemble? That's not long at all!  I guess it depends
> > on how much was disassembled?
>
>   Uhh, yeah.  You got snookered. ;)
>

Umm, yeah.  I had a good laugh about the 5 car trips, knew something was wrong,
perhaps Bill didn't know what a Linotype was?. Then I saw on the last line of
his post that he did put it into an 18 wheeler truck.  So I kind of guessed the
machine might have been hoisted complete and  2 hours was the time it took to
plug it in and test it.  I didn't want to say anything to be polite, since I
don't really know Bill.  Then I saw your post and knew it was a joke.  I was
hoping nobody would notice.

Thinking about it now, the metal pot takes 6 hours to come up to operating
temperature.  My dad who knows these machines like the back of his hand took the
better part of 10 hours reassembling it.  And that's only because he knew where
every part fit and did not reassemble out of sequence.  He might be a bit slow,
but that might be because he's just got 1 leg.

Yeah, bottom line is I fell for yet another joke on this forum.

On 12/11/2012 02:55 PM, joshbensadon wrote:
> --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...>
> wrote:
>>
>>> Two hours to reassemble? That's not long at all!  I guess it
>>> depends on how much was disassembled?
>>
>> Uhh, yeah.  You got snookered. ;)
>>
>
> Umm, yeah.  I had a good laugh about the 5 car trips, knew something
> was wrong, perhaps Bill didn't know what a Linotype was?. Then I saw
> on the last line of his post that he did put it into an 18 wheeler
> truck.  So I kind of guessed the machine might have been hoisted
> complete and  2 hours was the time it took to plug it in and test it.
> I didn't want to say anything to be polite, since I don't really know
> Bill.  Then I saw your post and knew it was a joke.  I was hoping
> nobody would notice.

   Oops. ;)

> Thinking about it now, the metal pot takes 6 hours to come up to
> operating temperature.  My dad who knows these machines like the back
> of his hand took the better part of 10 hours reassembling it.  And
> that's only because he knew where every part fit and did not
> reassemble out of sequence.  He might be a bit slow, but that might
> be because he's just got 1 leg.

   Yep.

> Yeah, bottom line is I fell for yet another joke on this forum.

   It's a tough crowd. ;)

           -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

Well, I finally got an 8" Floppy drive working.  Wrote code to format, read,
write, xmodem upload & download to the Floppy disk.  I made up a CP/M disk,
don't know if it works yet because I want to refine my program to
read/write/format to give better error checking.

I did however get to read Jonathon's disk that he made.  It reads well enough,
but for some odd reason the file stored on it is not in consecutive sectors.

Does CP/M skew the sectors? or is this done at the physical level?

Let me explain.  I included skewing a disk at the format stage, so when I write
a track, I'm encoding sectors 1,4,7,10...2,5,8,11... on the disk.  ie, on the
disk the first wedge after the index mark is sector 1, then next wedge is sector
4.  With a physically skewed disk, software should be able to read sectors
1,2,3... in an efficient manner.

There's nothing stopping software from skewing sectors, in which case it would
be best if a disk remained 1 to 1.  Let the software translate sector 2 as
sector 4, then fetch sector 4.

I have not yet checked if Jonathon's disk is physically skewed, this is one of
the improvements I intend on adding to my monitor program.

On 12/11/2012 03:13 PM, joshbensadon wrote:
> Well, I finally got an 8" Floppy drive working.  Wrote code to
> format, read, write, xmodem upload & download to the Floppy disk.  I
> made up a CP/M disk, don't know if it works yet because I want to
> refine my program to read/write/format to give better error
> checking.
>
> I did however get to read Jonathon's disk that he made.  It reads
> well enough, but for some odd reason the file stored on it is not in
> consecutive sectors.
>
> Does CP/M skew the sectors? or is this done at the physical level?
>
> Let me explain.  I included skewing a disk at the format stage, so
> when I write a track, I'm encoding sectors 1,4,7,10...2,5,8,11... on
> the disk.  ie, on the disk the first wedge after the index mark is
> sector 1, then next wedge is sector 4.  With a physically skewed
> disk, software should be able to read sectors 1,2,3... in an
> efficient manner.
>
> There's nothing stopping software from skewing sectors, in which case
> it would be best if a disk remained 1 to 1.  Let the software
> translate sector 2 as sector 4, then fetch sector 4.
>
> I have not yet checked if Jonathon's disk is physically skewed, this
> is one of the improvements I intend on adding to my monitor program.

   Yes, CP/M can optionally skew sectors.

   CP/M uses a data structure known as a "disk parameter block" to
describe a disk format.  It includes an optional pointer to a
translation table that is used to translate logical
monotonically-increasing sector numbers to physical sector numbers.

               -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

>
> --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...>
wrote:
> >
> > > Two hours to reassemble? That's not long at all!  I guess it depends
> > > on how much was disassembled?
> >
> >   Uhh, yeah.  You got snookered. ;)
> >
>
> Umm, yeah.  I had a good laugh about the 5 car trips, knew something was
wrong, perhaps Bill didn't know what a Linotype was?. Then I saw on the
last line of his post that he did put it into an 18 wheeler truck.  So I
kind of guessed the machine might have been hoisted complete and  2 hours
was the time it took to plug it in and test it.  I didn't want to say
anything to be polite, since I don't really know Bill.  Then I saw your
post and knew it was a joke.  I was hoping nobody would notice.
>
> Thinking about it now, the metal pot takes 6 hours to come up to
operating temperature.  My dad who knows these machines like the back of
his hand took the better part of 10 hours reassembling it.  And that's only
because he knew where every part fit and did not reassemble out of
sequence.  He might be a bit slow, but that might be because he's just got
1 leg.
>
> Yeah, bottom line is I fell for yet another joke on this forum.
>

vintagecomputer.net/linotype/ - this is the machine I helped rescue.  I was
right down the street.  They contacted me and asked me if I wanted it or
knew who might.  I sent a message on classic cmp....Bob Roswell contacted
me and paid for the truck to haul it away.  I am pretty sure he spent a
good week working with a 40-year veteran of linotype maintenance to
re-assemble and train on how to use it. I also recall numerous spare parts
and equipment. I am sure if you go to System Source in Baltimore it will be
operational or close to it.

Bill

On 12/11/2012 01:40 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
> On 12/09/2012 10:00 AM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
>  > Dave, I have a d|i|g|i|t|a|l StorageWorks rack in my garage with a
>  > HUGE cache of SCSI storage and dual HSZ-50s. I know you mentioned
>  > HSJ-50s. Since you are traveling from the western part of Penn's
>  > Woods, you might wish to travel a little lighter for VCF. I could
>  > supply more than ample disk storage with that StorageWorks array,
>  > assuming you've got HVD SCSI controllers in your kit. I will bring
>  > some MicroVAXen and, of course, the virgin 10base5 "etherpipe" and
>  > H400* transcievers and AUI cabling. Depending on how much kit is
>  > to be networked, cheapernet might be needed to extend the network.
>  > And, for some giggles, I'll toss in a DTC01.
>
> Sounds great to me! Definitely bring the AUI cables; I am short of those.
>
> Bringing along those HSZs would be fun, but since I'll already be
> putting a VAX 7000 on a liftgate truck, bringing the rack with the
> HSJ50s, drives, and star couplers isn't a big deal. I may also bring a
> small (heh) PDP-11 to put on the network to demonstrate heterogeneous
> DECnet networking in addition to VMS' clustering capabilities.
>
> Now, I know you're about as much into games as I am, but we'd need to
> show off some games at VCF, otherwise the non-technical visitors simply
> will not be interested. Are you aware of any DECnet-enabled
> multi-player games that we could use to show off either clustering or
> DECnet?

I can leave you guys with a Cisco AS500 (does DEC LAT, X25 and telnet).
It has 80 ports on it. Also I have a few AUI to 10BaseT I can leave for
you with MARCH.


--
Linux Home Automation         Neil Cherry       ncherry@...
http://www.linuxha.com/                         Main site
http://linuxha.blogspot.com/                    My HA Blog
Author of:     Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

On 12/11/2012 02:55 PM, joshbensadon wrote:

> Umm, yeah. I had a good laugh about the 5 car trips, knew something was wrong,
perhaps
> Bill didn't know what a Linotype was?. Then I saw on the last line of his post
that he did

I think I worked with one once (or part of one). It handled the photos for the
AP and we had to interface to it. 25v dc +/- centronics interface. I was told
it dated to the late 1940. The thing stunk like vinegar only stronger.

--
Linux Home Automation         Neil Cherry       ncherry@...
http://www.linuxha.com/                         Main site
http://linuxha.blogspot.com/                    My HA Blog
Author of:     Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

A coworker is cleaning up his office and produced from a dusty corner, a
box of envelopes, containing microfiche, of the VMS 3.3 source listing
dating from 1983 when the University was a VMS shop.

That kinda made my day.

I tried to secure them for the museum -- But he's holding on to
them...for now.

--
Jason

>
> On 12/11/2012 01:40 PM, Dave McGuire wrote:
> > On 12/09/2012 10:00 AM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
> >  > Dave, I have a d|i|g|i|t|a|l StorageWorks rack in my garage with a
> >  > HUGE cache of SCSI storage and dual HSZ-50s. I know you mentioned
> >  > HSJ-50s. Since you are traveling from the western part of Penn's
> >  > Woods, you might wish to travel a little lighter for VCF. I could
> >  > supply more than ample disk storage with that StorageWorks array,
> >  > assuming you've got HVD SCSI controllers in your kit. I will bring
> >  > some MicroVAXen and, of course, the virgin 10base5 "etherpipe" and
> >  > H400* transcievers and AUI cabling. Depending on how much kit is
> >  > to be networked, cheapernet might be needed to extend the network.
> >  > And, for some giggles, I'll toss in a DTC01.
> >
> > Sounds great to me! Definitely bring the AUI cables; I am short of
those.
> >
> > Bringing along those HSZs would be fun, but since I'll already be
> > putting a VAX 7000 on a liftgate truck, bringing the rack with the
> > HSJ50s, drives, and star couplers isn't a big deal. I may also bring a
> > small (heh) PDP-11 to put on the network to demonstrate heterogeneous
> > DECnet networking in addition to VMS' clustering capabilities.
> >
> > Now, I know you're about as much into games as I am, but we'd need to
> > show off some games at VCF, otherwise the non-technical visitors
simply
> > will not be interested. Are you aware of any DECnet-enabled
> > multi-player games that we could use to show off either clustering or
> > DECnet?
>
> I can leave you guys with a Cisco AS500 (does DEC LAT, X25 and telnet).
> It has 80 ports on it. Also I have a few AUI to 10BaseT I can leave for
> you with MARCH.
>

What is a Cisco AS500?  Do you mean SA500?  With this much advanced time to
prepare, I am sure you all can come up with a routing scheme that can
handle the job that was made before 1990. Although some dispensation for
minicomputers has been allowed, exhibit hardware should have been produced
before 1990, unless it's a minor part that is inconsequential to the
overall presentation.

Bill

Bill

On 12/11/2012 03:32 PM, Neil Cherry wrote:
>> Umm, yeah. I had a good laugh about the 5 car trips, knew something was
wrong, perhaps
>> Bill didn't know what a Linotype was?. Then I saw on the last line of his
post that he did
>
> I think I worked with one once (or part of one). It handled the photos for the
> AP and we had to interface to it. 25v dc +/- centronics interface. I was told
> it dated to the late 1940. The thing stunk like vinegar only stronger.

    Linotypes don't deal with photos and have no electronics other than
that required to drive a single large AC motor and an operator's lamp.
They are textual typesetters, 100% mechanical, designed well over a
century ago.  They use no chemicals other than lubricating oil.

    You are likely thinking of a Linotronic phototypesetter or some sort
of copy camera system.

              -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012, B. Degnan wrote:

> What is a Cisco AS500?  Do you mean SA500?  With this much advanced time to
> prepare, I am sure you all can come up with a routing scheme that can
> handle the job that was made before 1990. Although some dispensation for
> minicomputers has been allowed, exhibit hardware should have been produced
> before 1990, unless it's a minor part that is inconsequential to the
> overall presentation.

     Does this eliminate my VAX 4000/300 from 1991?  We (Dave and Sridhar
and I) had talked about including it in the cluster.


Mike Loewen 		 mloewen@...
Old Technology       http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/

On 12/11/2012 04:16 PM, Mike Loewen wrote:
>> What is a Cisco AS500?  Do you mean SA500?  With this much advanced time to
>> prepare, I am sure you all can come up with a routing scheme that can
>> handle the job that was made before 1990. Although some dispensation for
>> minicomputers has been allowed, exhibit hardware should have been produced
>> before 1990, unless it's a minor part that is inconsequential to the
>> overall presentation.
>
>      Does this eliminate my VAX 4000/300 from 1991?  We (Dave and Sridhar
> and I) had talked about including it in the cluster.

    The VAX-7000 I was thinking of bringing was introduced in 1994 and
discontinued around 2002.

    On top of that, VMS is still a currently-developed, fully-supported
operating system.

    I think this situation is illustrative of the fact that hard-and-fast
rules on "what is vintage" and "what is not" are unworkable.  We know it
when we see it...and the rumble of a VAX-7000 and a bundle of big thick
CI cables coming out the back, while still a fairly common sight in
datacenters today, very much embodies "vintage computing" as well.

    However, if people would prefer I bring something else, I fully
understand.

                -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

"B. Degnan" <billdeg@...> writes:

>What is a Cisco AS500?  Do you mean SA500?  With this much advanced time
>to prepare, I am sure you all can come up with a routing scheme that can
>handle the job that was made before 1990. Although some dispensation for
>minicomputers has been allowed, exhibit hardware should have been
>produced before 1990, unless it's a minor part that is inconsequential
>to the overall presentation.

What is to be routed and to where???

I think that all of the systems could EASILY fit in a single DECnet area;
no routing needed.  Even if there would be a need, a VAX can be configured
as a routing node assuming it has a DVNETRTG license PAK.  VMS clustering
needs NO routers/routing.  All nodes must be able to see all other nodes
on the cluster interconnects.  I'm assuming these will be CI and LAVC.  I
could also configure SCSI as a connection.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "And though it seems they smile with glee, I know in truth they envy me
        and watch as my befuddled brain, shines on brightly quite insane"

On 12/11/2012 04:26 PM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote:
> I think that all of the systems could EASILY fit in a single DECnet area;
> no routing needed.  Even if there would be a need, a VAX can be configured
> as a routing node assuming it has a DVNETRTG license PAK.  VMS clustering
> needs NO routers/routing.  All nodes must be able to see all other nodes
> on the cluster interconnects.  I'm assuming these will be CI and LAVC.  I
> could also configure SCSI as a connection.

    I was thinking CI and LAVC as well.

    PAKs are not a problem.

    I was also thinking of having a temporary area allocated to HECnet
(the wide-area hobbyist DECnet, all over the world!) to connect our
VCF-E network to HECnet for the show.  I think that would be lots of
fun, and would also allow the HECnet gang (a great group of folk) to
"participate" to some small degree in VCF-E as well.

    What do you think?

              -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...> writes:

>   The VAX-7000 I was thinking of bringing was introduced in 1994 and
>discontinued around 2002.

I thought you were bringing a VAX-11/780! :)


>   On top of that, VMS is still a currently-developed, fully-supported
>operating system.

I can attest to that! ;)

However, while there is no more development on VAX VMS but it is supported
for those still with support contracts for it.



>   I think this situation is illustrative of the fact that hard-and-fast
>rules on "what is vintage" and "what is not" are unworkable.  We know it
>when we see it...and the rumble of a VAX-7000 and a bundle of big thick
>CI cables coming out the back, while still a fairly common sight in
>datacenters today, very much embodies "vintage computing" as well.
>
>   However, if people would prefer I bring something else, I fully
>understand.

I'd love to see/do a big iron exhibit.
--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "And though it seems they smile with glee, I know in truth they envy me
        and watch as my befuddled brain, shines on brightly quite insane"

Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...> writes:

>On 12/11/2012 04:26 PM, Brian Schenkenberger, VAXman- wrote: > I think
>that all of the systems could EASILY fit in a single DECnet area; > no
>routing needed.  Even if there would be a need, a VAX can be configured
>> as a routing node assuming it has a DVNETRTG license PAK.  VMS
>clustering > needs NO routers/routing.  All nodes must be able to see
>all other nodes > on the cluster interconnects.  I'm assuming these will
>be CI and LAVC.  I > could also configure SCSI as a connection.
>
>   I was thinking CI and LAVC as well.
>
>   PAKs are not a problem.

Especially if you know somebody with PAKGEN licenses. ;)



>   I was also thinking of having a temporary area allocated to HECnet
>(the wide-area hobbyist DECnet, all over the world!) to connect our
>VCF-E network to HECnet for the show.  I think that would be lots of
>fun, and would also allow the HECnet gang (a great group of folk) to
>"participate" to some small degree in VCF-E as well.
>
>   What do you think?

That would be way cool.  Talk around the world!

--
VAXman- A Bored Certified VMS Kernel Mode Hacker    VAXman(at)TMESIS(dot)COM

    "And though it seems they smile with glee, I know in truth they envy me
        and watch as my befuddled brain, shines on brightly quite insane"

On Tue, 11 Dec 2012, Dave McGuire wrote:

>   I was also thinking of having a temporary area allocated to HECnet
> (the wide-area hobbyist DECnet, all over the world!) to connect our
> VCF-E network to HECnet for the show.  I think that would be lots of
> fun, and would also allow the HECnet gang (a great group of folk) to
> "participate" to some small degree in VCF-E as well.
>
>   What do you think?

     Some folks prepping for this year's VCF-Midwest were talking about
connecting to HECnet.  I don't know if they succeeded, or not.


Mike Loewen 		 mloewen@...
Old Technology       http://sturgeon.css.psu.edu/~mloewen/Oldtech/

On 12/11/2012 04:43 PM, Mike Loewen wrote:
>>   I was also thinking of having a temporary area allocated to HECnet
>> (the wide-area hobbyist DECnet, all over the world!) to connect our
>> VCF-E network to HECnet for the show.  I think that would be lots of
>> fun, and would also allow the HECnet gang (a great group of folk) to
>> "participate" to some small degree in VCF-E as well.
>>
>>   What do you think?
>
>     Some folks prepping for this year's VCF-Midwest were talking about
> connecting to HECnet.  I don't know if they succeeded, or not.

   Oh!  I hadn't heard about that, and it hasn't been mentioned on the
HECnet list.  And here I was thinking it was an original idea. ;)

   I just emailed the HECnet list about it, to ask the opinion of that group.

   Evan, what do you think?

              -Dave

--
Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
New Kensington, PA

-------- Original Message --------
> From: "Dave McGuire" <Mcguire@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2012 4:43 PM
> To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] OT: Linotype
>
> On 12/11/2012 03:32 PM, Neil Cherry wrote:
> >> Umm, yeah. I had a good laugh about the 5 car trips, knew something
was wrong, perhaps
> >> Bill didn't know what a Linotype was?. Then I saw on the last line of
his post that he did
> >
> > I think I worked with one once (or part of one). It handled the photos
for the
> > AP and we had to interface to it. 25v dc +/- centronics interface. I
was told
> > it dated to the late 1940. The thing stunk like vinegar only stronger.
>
>    Linotypes don't deal with photos and have no electronics other than
> that required to drive a single large AC motor and an operator's lamp.
> They are textual typesetters, 100% mechanical, designed well over a
> century ago.  They use no chemicals other than lubricating oil.
>
>    You are likely thinking of a Linotronic phototypesetter or some sort
> of copy camera system.
>
>

Did anyone see the photos of the Linotype I rescued?  "Line o(f) Type"

vintagecomputer.net/linotype/

--- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...> wrote:
>
> > I think I worked with one once (or part of one). It handled the photos for
the
> > AP and we had to interface to it. 25v dc +/- centronics interface. I was
told
> > it dated to the late 1940. The thing stunk like vinegar only stronger.
>
>    Linotypes don't deal with photos and have no electronics other than
> that required to drive a single large AC motor and an operator's lamp.
> They are textual typesetters, 100% mechanical, designed well over a
> century ago.  They use no chemicals other than lubricating oil.
>

Don't forget the big metal pot, that ran on 240V.

There where other companies that later copied and improved upon the Linotype. 
The ones I know are Intertype, Comet and Electron.  There was one called the
Electron II, it had a paper tape reader and would activate the (many) keys with
solenoids.  I personally have never seen this machine, but my dad said it was a
sight to see.  I guess it would be like one of those old "player piano's".  I
think this machine is from the early 70's.

--- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "B. Degnan" <billdeg@...> wrote:
>
> Did anyone see the photos of the Linotype I rescued?  "Line o(f) Type"
>
> vintagecomputer.net/linotype/

Yes, that is definitely an old Linotype.  I usually only got to see the newer
Intertype machines.  Have you seen the new movie on these machines? 
http://www.linotypefilm.com/

FYI,

The correct term for ordering sectors in a non-contiguous manner as you describe
is "interleaving"

regards,
Mike W.

--- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, Dave McGuire <Mcguire@...> wrote:
>
> On 12/11/2012 03:13 PM, joshbensadon wrote:
> > Well, I finally got an 8" Floppy drive working.  Wrote code to
> > format, read, write, xmodem upload & download to the Floppy disk.  I
> > made up a CP/M disk, don't know if it works yet because I want to
> > refine my program to read/write/format to give better error
> > checking.
> >
> > I did however get to read Jonathon's disk that he made.  It reads
> > well enough, but for some odd reason the file stored on it is not in
> > consecutive sectors.
> >
> > Does CP/M skew the sectors? or is this done at the physical level?
> >
> > Let me explain.  I included skewing a disk at the format stage, so
> > when I write a track, I'm encoding sectors 1,4,7,10...2,5,8,11... on
> > the disk.  ie, on the disk the first wedge after the index mark is
> > sector 1, then next wedge is sector 4.  With a physically skewed
> > disk, software should be able to read sectors 1,2,3... in an
> > efficient manner.
> >
> > There's nothing stopping software from skewing sectors, in which case
> > it would be best if a disk remained 1 to 1.  Let the software
> > translate sector 2 as sector 4, then fetch sector 4.
> >
> > I have not yet checked if Jonathon's disk is physically skewed, this
> > is one of the improvements I intend on adding to my monitor program.
>
>   Yes, CP/M can optionally skew sectors.
>
>   CP/M uses a data structure known as a "disk parameter block" to
> describe a disk format.  It includes an optional pointer to a
> translation table that is used to translate logical
> monotonically-increasing sector numbers to physical sector numbers.
>
>               -Dave
>
> --
> Dave McGuire, AK4HZ
> New Kensington, PA
>

On 12/11/2012 04:11 PM, B. Degnan wrote:

> What is a Cisco AS500? Do you mean SA500? With this much advanced time to
> prepare, I am sure you all can come up with a routing scheme that can
> handle the job that was made before 1990. Although some dispensation for
> minicomputers has been allowed, exhibit hardware should have been produced
> before 1990, unless it's a minor part that is inconsequential to the
> overall presentation.

The AS500 (I think that's what it's called) is a BA Terminal server. :-)
It's based on the Cisco AGS (I think I upgraded it to a CSC4 processor).

I also have a CS500 (smaller terminal server) and a Xyplex Terminal
Server. Probably early 90's but support LAT, X.25 PAD(?) and telnet.
there were only 2 of us in the AT&T Lab that could run (we were not
admins) the DEC Equipment and deal with things like LAT.

Even with that I'd say that this equipment isn't as important to the
DEC display as the terminals and mini's. It's just a way of going
serial to abc-protocol.

Cool thing about the 802.x and xBaseT protocols is that you can run
the native protocols over it and, at minimim, bridge the protocols
at best route then (I support older protocols such as DECNet Phase 4
on Cisco equipment).

Networking is fun. I sat amazed as a 'Mainframe' person ran commands
from a 3720 terminal that grabbed files from DEC boxes, Unix Servers and
the mainframe and he proceeded to pipe them through filters. I thought
you could only do that in Unix and here he was running them through 3
different OS's. I don't know what the mainframe ran but this wasn't
the mainframe Unix.
--
Linux Home Automation         Neil Cherry       ncherry@...
http://www.linuxha.com/                         Main site
http://linuxha.blogspot.com/                    My HA Blog
Author of:     Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

On 12/11/2012 04:46 PM, B. Degnan wrote:

> Did anyone see the photos of the Linotype I rescued? "Line o(f) Type"
>
> vintagecomputer.net/linotype/

Yup, just after I posted my Linotype message. Dave is quite correct. The
device I mentioned doesn't seem to have any relations to your printing presses.
:-)

--
Linux Home Automation         Neil Cherry       ncherry@...
http://www.linuxha.com/                         Main site
http://linuxha.blogspot.com/                    My HA Blog
Author of:     Linux Smart Homes For Dummies

--- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <mike@...> wrote:
>
> FYI,
>
> The correct term for ordering sectors in a non-contiguous manner as you
describe is "interleaving"
>
> regards,
> Mike W.


Right, I remember that from my days of low level formating on the MFM hard
drives.  But I was using a term that is more appropriate to the era of CP/M. 
Page 28 of "The Programmers CP/M Handbook" calls this technique "Skewing" and
also acknowledges it as "Interlacing".

Thanks for the reminder.  I wonder if it was called by any other names?

I have not seen that documentary
--
Sent from my PDP 8/e.

--- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, B Degnan <billdeg@...> wrote:
>
> I have not seen that documentary


It's for sale on their website, well worth the $25.  You can check out the film
trailer on Youtube.  The actual film runs 76 minutes with another 70 minutes of
bonus features.  It covers these machines from many angles.  With out this
machine, there might not have even been computers by this day and age.  See the
movie, they explain it better.