MARCH frequently asked questions -- updated August 1, 2009

1. What is MARCH?

MARCH is a user group for people who enjoy using antique/vintage computers.
Our name is an acronym for Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists.  Our club's
legal name has an "Inc." on the end because we're incorporated as a non-profit
in New Jersey. However we do not yet have 501(c)3 tax status.

2. I'm a nerd and live somewhere between Connecticut and Virginia, yet I never
heard of you before.

Andy Meyer had the idea for a regional user group in the second half of 2004.
Evan Koblentz started the Yahoo discussion group
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/) in the beginning of 2005.
MARCH became a legal entity later that year.

3. So I have to live in the Mid-Atlantic part of the U.S. to join?

Nope.  That description just conveys where most of our members and activities
are concentrated -- in the scalene triangle between Hartford, Pittsburgh, and
D.C. -- but people from beyond these areas are certainly welcome to join us.

4. So what does MARCH actually do?

In addition to the busy discussion list at our Yahoo group, we also operate a
bricks-and-mortar computer museum on the New Jersey shore.  Currently our
museum occupies 850 sq. ft. in a wing of the InfoAge Science Center, located
at 2201 Marconi Rd., Wall Township, N.J., 07719.

5. InfoAge Science Center?  I never heard of that, either.

6. InfoAge is a relatively new museum and 501(c)3 non-profit organization.  Its
construction began in the late 1990s and it opened in a "beta" mode in the
mid-2000s.  Its facility is a whole campus, not just one building.  There is a
very rich history here.  The campus was built by the Marconi America Wireless
Telegraphy Co. as a recieving station in 1912, was used as a communications
laboratory by the U.S. Navy during WWI, andthen was in private hands.  It
became a U.S. Army Signal Corps R&D lab just before WWII and remained so until
the 1990s.  Congress decided to close the lab and sell the land.  Instead,
local historians recognized its history and formed InfoAge.  Now the campus is
on the National Parks Service's National Register of Historic Places.  InfoAge
is also a Black History Site and had several other federal designations related
to its service before, during, and after WWII.  Public hours are Sunday 1pm to
4pm.  For more about the museum and campus history please visit www.infoage.org.

7. Okay, so back to this computer museum of yours.  What's there?

Our museum has four permanent exhibits: "Computing @ Camp Evans" ("Camp Evans"
being the name of the campus during the Army Signal Corps days); Minicomputers;
Homebrew & Single-Board Computers; and Microcomputers.  Additional exhibits
devoted to our members' collections, our benefactor Dimitry Grabbe, and other
topics are expected to open late in 2009 or early in 2010.

8. Do the computers just sit there or can I use them?

We strive to restore our systems to operational condition.  Some computers,
especially the microcomputers, are easy to restore and easy to replace if
necessary.  Others, such as our minicomputers, require a more serious effort.
We make every effort to have these computers available for our members' use and
to demonstrate them for visitors.

9. Sounds nice, but wouldn't a bigger space be even better?

Yes!  InfoAge will have a HUGE space for us in the (estimated) 2011 timeframe.
The details are still vague, but stay tuned ......

10. What else does MARCH do?

Lots of fun stuff.  In addition to our discussion list and our museum, we also
host special events.  Our flagship event is the Vintage Computer Festival East.
Our first edition of that hobbyist convention (the third VCF East event overall
because the first two were run by a different group in Boston) was in May 2006
at the InfoAge facility.  VCF East 4.0 was June 2007; VCF East 5.0 was Sept.
2008.  VCF East 6.0 is Sept. 12-13, 2009.

We also produce exhibits at other events such as the Trenton Computer Festival
(every April) and the HOPE (Hackers on Planet Earth) conference (every
even-numbered year in the summer, located in Manhattan) .... we also
participate in smaller events as the opportunities arise.  Finally, in addition
to the public Sunday hours, we open our museum in support of events from other
InfoAge organizations and for tours and appointments.

11. Okay, this all sounds interesting.  So by "antique/vintage" you mean my old
Pentium II?

No, we mean your old Altair, Apple II, Commodore, DEC PDP-11, Epson HX-20,
HP-1000, IBM PC, KIM-1... we could go through the alphabet a couple times
but we think you get the idea by now.  We're interested in truly antique
computers, not merely "used" computers.  Generally, we mean anything from WWII
through the mid-1980s.

12. I still don't get it.  Where can I learn more about what's antique/vintage?

Many places.  Pick up a copy of the book "Collectible Microcomputers" by
Michael Nadeau.  Or for non-micro aspects, go online.  Heck, go online anyway.
Check out the classiccmp.org mailing lists; the Vintage Computer Festival
(vintage.org); vintage-computer.com/vcforum, old-computers.com; and many, many,
many others.  (If you're interested in specific machines, just post your
question to our discussion list and we can refer you to the best sites.)

13. What's behind the scenes of this wacky endeavor?

We have some de facto officers; an official set of bylaws and all that boring
stuff is being worked on... we're just so busy having fun that we keep
procrastinating.  The officers are myself (Evan Koblentz - prez), Bill Degnan
and Andy Meyer (VPs), and Justin Jernigan (treasurer).

14. Members?  Is it like just you and two buddies?

We're much bigger than that!  We have dozens of members, and nearly 200 in our
Yahoo group.

15. What's it cost to join?

Nothing.  MARCH membership is free (as in beer).

16. So how do you fund the club?

Our primary fundraiser is the Vintage Computer Festival East, during which we
sell tickets, exhibit space, and various items.  We also have an annual
donation drive.  We ask that everyone give $20 per year, but it's not required.
Some people give nothing.  Others give more.  We appreciate every dollar
equally.  As of fall 2009 we also sell posters at the museum.  Sometimes we
also rent artifacts for use at film/television props.

17. I have some other question not on this FAQ.

Okay.  Tell us what it is.  Do so again by posting to our message boards or
pinging me (evan@...) ... ask us anything, we're not shy!  (And moreover,
unlike some computer clubs, we're not cliquey.  All are welcome here!)

18. What else should I know before diving in to MARCH?

If you're a nerd who thinks really old computers and their related technologies
were cool, then give MARCH a chance.  You'll be glad you did.  Also, if you
were wondering, we're NOT a bunch of old farts who sit around and whine about
how much better things used to be.  Quite the contrary: we're a lot of young
and mid-life farts who ... ooooh maybe we said too much.  :)

19. What is your web site?

We're at www.midatlanticretro.org.

20. Why does your web site suck?

Its simplicity is by design.

21. I noticed this FAQ is in 80 columns.

Ain’t it sweet?

I know generally we don't advertise/ask if people have stuff for trade.  But I
need a power supply for an Atari 400/800 series system.  I have 2 Atari 800's
and 2 Atari 1050 floppy drives, and only 1 power supply, and trying to use a
floppy drive without power to the computer doesn't help much.

Let me know what you're looking for, could probably do a trade, I have a lot of
different stuff.

Thanks,

Joe

What?  We do that all the time and it's perfectly acceptable.

---------------------------------------------
> I know generally we don't advertise/ask if people have stuff for trade

What? We do that all the time and it's perfectly acceptable.
---------------------------------------------

I know generally we don't advertise/ask if people have stuff for trade

------------------------------------
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You need the external power pak or the power board assembly in the right
side of the system?

You can get either of them from www.myatari.com and
www.best-electronics-ca.com which are two of the last Atari-only dealers
in the world.



Curt

The power supply I have says 9v and 31va, so I do not know if that means 3.1
amps or 31 amps... although I really doubt the 31amps... I tried I 1.5 amp 9v
supply I had around, on the PC it does nothing, on the floppy drive, it lights
up the power light, as well as the floppy light (and it sounds like it might be
trying to seek the head) but the drive itself is not spinning.

--- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey Brace" <ark72axow@...> wrote:
>
> Yeah check the specs. I think it is 1 amp or something like that. I believe
there are equivalent supplies that can be used.
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Bob Applegate<mailto:bob@...>
>   To:
midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com<mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com>
>   Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 8:53 PM
>   Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] Atari 800 Power Supply?
>
>
>
>   I can pull mine out, but what are the specs?  It's probably easy to find
equivalent switcher supplies and just make your own cable.
>
>
>
>   If you don't find one I can open my collection tomorrow night and see if
I've got a spare.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   On Mar 1, 2010, at 7:58 PM, B Degnan wrote:
>
>
>
>     I checked.  Sorry I can't help, I don't have any spares.  I share power
supplies amongst systems.  I take it you have not found a modern equivalent?
>     Bill
>
>     Evan Koblentz wrote:
>
> What?  We do that all the time and it's perfectly acceptable.
>
> ---------------------------------------------
>   I know generally we don't advertise/ask if people have stuff for trade
>

31 volt amps is about the same as watts. So at 9 volts, 31 watts equals
approximately 3.5 amps. Divide volt amps by volts and get amps.

billdrom
----- Original Message -----
From: "ExSlyder" <joprysko1@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2010 10:26 PM
Subject: [midatlanticretro] Re: Atari 800 Power Supply?


The power supply I have says 9v and 31va, so I do not know if that means 3.1
amps or 31 amps... although I really doubt the 31amps... I tried I 1.5 amp 9v
supply I had around, on the PC it does nothing, on the floppy drive, it lights
up the power light, as well as the floppy light (and it sounds like it might be
trying to seek the head) but the drive itself is not spinning.

Just be VERY careful in using P/S' on certain Atari products...

Most of the Home computer products use 9VAC - do NOT use a 9VDC power
supply!

Historical or not?  This laptop has a 2" disk drive, manuf around 1990,
DOS 3.3 in ROM, LCD, 80c86 cpu.

http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=323

Bill

Mildly.

---------------------------------------------
> Historical or not?  This laptop has a 2" disk drive, manuf around 1990,
> DOS 3.3 in ROM, LCD, 80c86 cpu.
>
> http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=323
>
> Bill

Hi Gang:

No pun intended, but there is this event in MARCH... at InfoAge by the
NJ Antique Radio Club.  They are going to auction off tubes and
various antique radio items.  That event could be well attended, so
there may be a few more people wandering around InfoAge on Saturday.
Good chance to show off MARCH's computers, too.

73 de Ray

Yeah I plan to open our exhibits.  Not sure how long that event lasts; I
might need backup from Jeffs B./F.

---------------------------------------------
> Hi Gang:
>
> No pun intended, but there is this event in MARCH... at InfoAge by the NJ
Antique Radio Club.  They are going to auction off tubes and various antique
radio items.  That event could be well attended, so there may be a few more
people wandering around InfoAge on Saturday. Good chance to show off MARCH's
computers, too.
>
> 73 de Ray
>
>

Ahh, I wonder if that is why when I tried using a DC adapter it wouldn't power
on.  Or in the case of the 1050 floppy drives, it would power on the logic
board, but not the motor (I guess they are using some kind of rectifier to
change from the 9VAC to 12VDC which usually powers the spindle on a floppy
drive.

Hmm.. would a 12VAC supply work do ya think?  I have a one from my old set of
Creative Labs speakers, it's a good heavy duty supply, and since it is using AC,
it should work I think.

I will first try it on one of my 2 floppy drives, one of them seems to not be
working correctly anyway, but the motor will spin and the lights will work.  So
I figure that would be a good guinea-pig.

Thanks,

Joe

--- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Curt @ Atari Museum" <curt@...> wrote:
>
> Just be VERY careful in using P/S' on certain Atari products...
>
> Most of the Home computer products use 9VAC - do NOT use a 9VDC power
> supply!
>

I don't think winging it with power is a good idea...
Bill

-------- Original Message --------
> From: "ExSlyder" <joprysko1@...>
> Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2010 1:28 PM
> To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [midatlanticretro] Re: Atari 800 Power Supply?
>
> Ahh, I wonder if that is why when I tried using a DC adapter it wouldn't
power on.  Or in the case of the 1050 floppy drives, it would power on the
logic board, but not the motor (I guess they are using some kind of
rectifier to change from the 9VAC to 12VDC which usually powers the spindle
on a floppy drive.
>
> Hmm.. would a 12VAC supply work do ya think?  I have a one from my old
set of Creative Labs speakers, it's a good heavy duty supply, and since it
is using AC, it should work I think.
>
> I will first try it on one of my 2 floppy drives, one of them seems to
not be working correctly anyway, but the motor will spin and the lights
will work.  So I figure that would be a good guinea-pig.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Joe
>
> --- In midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com, "Curt @ Atari Museum" <curt@...>
wrote:
> >
> > Just be VERY careful in using P/S' on certain Atari products...
> >
> > Most of the Home computer products use 9VAC - do NOT use a 9VDC power
> > supply!
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Update .... NJARC says their event is 10am until mid-afternoon, and
they're happy to make an announcement about our exhibits being open.  I
can be there until 4pm, which should be plenty of time.  Ray, thanks for
the reminder.

---------------------------------------------
> Yeah I plan to open our exhibits.  Not sure how long that event lasts; I
> might need backup from Jeffs B./F.
>
> ---------------------------------------------
>
>> Hi Gang:
>>
>> No pun intended, but there is this event in MARCH... at InfoAge by the NJ
Antique Radio Club.  They are going to auction off tubes and various antique
radio items.  That event could be well attended, so there may be a few more
people wandering around InfoAge on Saturday. Good chance to show off MARCH's
computers, too.
>>
>> 73 de Ray

The Netbook form-factor from before the net (or small hard drives).

Jim

Evan Koblentz wrote:
>
>
> Mildly.
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> > Historical or not? This laptop has a 2" disk drive, manuf around 1990,
> > DOS 3.3 in ROM, LCD, 80c86 cpu.
> >
> > http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=323
> <http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=323>
> >
> > Bill
>

But only one of many, and not even close to the first.  That's why I say
"mildly".

---------------------------------------------
> The Netbook form-factor from before the net (or small hard drives).
>
> Jim
>
> Evan Koblentz wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Mildly.
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------
>>
>>> Historical or not? This laptop has a 2" disk drive, manuf around 1990,
>>> DOS 3.3 in ROM, LCD, 80c86 cpu.
>>>
>>> http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=323

It's more historic because it's one of the few laptops with a 2" disk
drive.  The size is not anything special at all, it's the same as most LCD
laptops of the era.  I don't know of any other laptops that had a 2" disk
drive, does anyone?
bd

-------- Original Message --------
> From: "Evan Koblentz" <evan@...>
> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 12:22 PM
> To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] historical? - Zenith minisPORT laptop
>
> But only one of many, and not even close to the first.  That's why I say

> "mildly".
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> > The Netbook form-factor from before the net (or small hard drives).
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > Evan Koblentz wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Mildly.
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>> Historical or not? This laptop has a 2" disk drive, manuf around
1990,
> >>> DOS 3.3 in ROM, LCD, 80c86 cpu.
> >>>
> >>> http://vintagecomputer.net/browse_thread.cfm?id=323
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Just because something is a mutant doesn't make it historic.  If some
kid is born with 19 arms, that doesn't make him an important part of
human evolutionary history.

In a many centuries from now, Bill Degnan the 19th will post to a list
and write, "But that kid was the only one with 19 arms!  I don't know of
any others.  I best blog about it...."   :)

---------------------------------------------
> It's more historic because it's one of the few laptops with a 2" disk drive. 
The size is not anything special at all, it's the same as most LCD laptops of
the era.  I don't know of any other laptops that had a 2" disk drive, does
anyone?

Just because something is a mutant doesn't make it historic. If some kid is born with 19 arms, that doesn't make him an important part of human evolutionary history.
In a many centuries from now, Bill Degnan the 19th will post to a list and write, "But that kid was the only one with 19 arms! I don't know of any others. I best blog about it...." :)

---------------------------------------------

It's more historic because it's one of the few laptops with a 2" disk drive. The size is not anything special at all, it's the same as most LCD laptops of the era. I don't know of any other laptops that had a 2" disk drive, does anyone?

------------------------------------
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-------- Original Message --------
> From: "Bryan Pope" <bryan.pope@...>
> Sent: Friday, March 05, 2010 1:08 PM
> To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] historical? - Zenith minisPORT laptop
>
> On 3/5/2010 12:43 PM, Evan Koblentz wrote:
> > Just because something is a mutant doesn't make it historic.  If some
> > kid is born with 19 arms, that doesn't make him an important part of
> > human evolutionary history.
> >
> > In a many centuries from now, Bill Degnan the 19th will post to a list
> > and write, "But that kid was the only one with 19 arms!  I don't know
of
> > any others.  I best blog about it...."   :)
> >
> But in the VHS vs Beta war, wasn't Beta important?  This laptop was
> trying to go up against the 3 1/2" disk.  Beta lost even though it has
> better quality video.  This lost even though it could hold more data.
>

But that was not my point.

I was saying, IF this system were historic, it's not because it's a mini
laptop as Jim Sheef said.  It's no smaller than others of it's day. The
only thing that could possibly make this a minor footnote in history is the
fact that it had the 2" drives.

My original question, which I believe has been answered, is  - Is that
enough to be "historic" / "vintage".  It's from 1989/90 so it's on the
fence years-wise in our context.

Side note - the 2" drive had more capacity than the 3.5 disk, despite what
they say in Wikipedia.  I tested the drive myself, it's 812K.

Bill

Once upon a time, I had a a music sampler that used a 2" drive (Akai
S-612)).  However, the disks used were "quick disks"..
It was an experiment to make an easy-to-use fast loading storage
system.  The disks were designed so that you could flip them over and
use either side to save data.  The limitation was that the disks would
only hold 64K.  That was OK for the intended use, and I think the hope
was that the format would be useful for the "home" computers of the
day.  But, the format never caught on.

I think the design of the disk was that it did not use a director or
FAT.. but rather, started the recording track at the hub, and spiraled
outward.  The user would dump the entire 64K content at one time..
either saving or loading.  The data tracks were large enough that the
mechanical aspects of the drive could easily track the spiral.  It was
meant to be simple and inexpensive.

And, it was fairly quick.. the 64K dump would only take about 10
seconds or so to transfer.  Way faster than a cassette interface,
which is what a lot of gear of the time was using.  The Ensoniq Mirage
sampler was a big step forward for the time, using single sided 3.5"
floppy disks, and due to the increased capacity, coupled with the DOS-
like ability to select individual files (samples), became a hit in the
marketplace.

73 de Ray

Just because something is a mutant doesn't make it historic. 

If some kid is born with 19 arms, that doesn't make him an important part of human evolutionary history.
In a many centuries from now, Bill Degnan the 19th will post to a list and write, "But that kid was the only one with 19 arms! I don't know of any others. I best blog about it...." :)
---------------------------------------------

It's more historic because it's one of the few laptops with a 2" disk drive. The size is not anything special at all, it's the same as most LCD laptops of the era. I don't know of any other laptops that had a 2" disk drive, does anyone?

http://www.vintagecomputer.net/ragooman/

I'm glad this came back up, as I have been meaning to respond to this. I have
one of these, and I HAD one back in 1992, which I purchased on clearance from a
company through "Computer Shopper." I believe I paid about $299 for it. It's not
significant in the history of personal computers, nor specifically the laptop,
but I still find it very interesting. I had long given mine away, so I then
starting looking for one a few years ago, and got one off of eBay.

So, I guess the better word for it is - collectible. It's very collectible,
because it's unique enough and interesting. Not only does it have the unique 2"
disk drive, but it could also have one or two meg of RAM, which you could
allocate part of as a RAM drive. It also booted DOS 3.3 from ROM, plus, it has a
very cool version of LapLink (I'm pretty sure that's the brand) in ROM, where
you can just connect it to another computer, and transfer across to it, so you
can then begin transferring files. I was in college part-time, and I was taking
a course in both Lotus 1-2-3 and dBase III+. I purchased the computer to do my
work at home, instead of at the lab (I had a Mac at home). I was able to copy
the programs off of one of the lab computers to my minisPORT, shhhhhh. I only
used the software for those courses.

This is a unique and proud part of my collection, along side at least two other,
non-significant, but very cool computers -
the Canon Navigator
http://www.museo8bits.com/navigator.htm

and the Convergent Technologies WorkSlate
http://www.vintagecomputer.net/convergent/

I also used to see those advertised for about $1200 or so in the same timespan
in "Computer Shopper."


Best,

David Greelish

www.ClassicComputing.com
The Home of Computer History Nostalgia

The Classic Computing Show podcast

Stan Veit's History of the Personal Computer
audio book podcast

The Classic Computing Expo
(planning / working towards summer 2010)

Hi Guys,

I was having some problems, sharing a printer between my computers. I thought I
knew very little about how this operation worked. All I knew was there is a
thing called a printer driver, and somehow the correct signals flowed from one
computer, over the LAN to the other computer, and then out to the printer
through a USB port.

Starting to think about it more, the back part of my brain kicked in. I suddenly
remembered, I DID have a knowledge of how printers work!

Remember, in olden days, when you bought a printer, it came with a 60 page
manual, which was stocked full of ASCII printer commands? Using BASIC, you could
"OPEN" the printer and send commands down the line to put the printer through
its paces.

I guess it still works that way today, but we have become so far removed from
the real nitty-gritty of our machines, that I figured only you guys would
appreciate where we've been.

Anybody still have an old printer manual around?

Ron

Hey Ron,
What printer, maybe I have the actual manual.  I know that these
commands were in HP laserjet manuals because I used to use them when I
programmed using the Clipper language.  I have a chart from a Gemini
10X/15X nearby, what exactly do you need?
Bill Degnan

RonK wrote:
> Hi Guys,
>
> I was having some problems, sharing a printer between my computers. I thought
I knew very little about how this operation worked. All I knew was there is a
thing called a printer driver, and somehow the correct signals flowed from one
computer, over the LAN to the other computer, and then out to the printer
through a USB port.
>
> Starting to think about it more, the back part of my brain kicked in. I
suddenly remembered, I DID have a knowledge of how printers work!
>
> Remember, in olden days, when you bought a printer, it came with a 60 page
manual, which was stocked full of ASCII printer commands? Using BASIC, you could
"OPEN" the printer and send commands down the line to put the printer through
its paces.
>
> I guess it still works that way today, but we have become so far removed from
the real nitty-gritty of our machines, that I figured only you guys would
appreciate where we've been.
>
> Anybody still have an old printer manual around?
>
> Ron
>
>