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  • Members: 383
  • Category: Computers
  • Founded: Jan 17, 2005
  • Language: English
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#1047 From: Jim Scheef <jscheef@...>
Date: Mon Aug 1, 2005 12:30 pm
Subject: Re: MARCH inventory program in testing
jscheef
Send Email Send Email
 
Bill,

Do you need a beta tester?

Jim

--- billdeg@... wrote:

> The March inventory program is done in a basic form, I have to test it and
> then do the layout/tweeking.
> Bill
>

#1048 From: "Evan" <evan947@...>
Date: Mon Aug 1, 2005 12:45 pm
Subject: RE: I saw your profile at yahoo, I'm interested in you!
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
LOL, anyone want to reply to this?
 
Needless to say, I'm removing this message and this "member" from our list.
 
Only the second spam in six or seven months, not too bad...


From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gorgeous_shmily
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 5:41 AM
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [midatlanticretro] I saw your profile at yahoo, I'm interested in you!

I saw your profile at yahoo, I'm interested in you!

Meet hot BBW??Let's go~!!

Check my profile now!

http://www.bbwclub.zu5.net

You won't feel regret!!





#1049 From: "Evan" <evan947@...>
Date: Mon Aug 1, 2005 1:01 pm
Subject: RE: what is considered a vintage apple computer?
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
>>> Maybe we need a new category for "pioneer" computers made before 1980...
 
Ugh, no no no no no.  I agreed mostly until this sentence.
 
For the purpose of our hobby, "vintage" implies being synonomous with "collectible".  No special categories are needed; that is how we get David G.'s PDP-8 and Bill D.'s Commodore stuff and my Psion 1 into the same room and tell attendees it's all the same hobby.  Of course they're all different categories of computing technology, but equally "vintage".  It's just a matter of personal and subjective preferences.
 
You're right that the Deskpro 386, PS/2, and even Windows NT were rather unique when new, but I don't believe they are obsolete enough.  Let's ask again in five or ten years.  :)
 

From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Scheef
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:04 AM
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] what is considered a vintage apple computer?

Bill, Evan, all,

Here's my vintage philosophy. You can only accept it as I'm not changing. To
me, "vintage", in the context of computers, means something "old" (already a
relative term), obsolete by "current" (another relative term) standards and
unique in some way (totally subjective) when it was new. (Yes, I'm borrowing
from Evan here.) There can be no fixed definition. Vintage is whatever you
believe it to be.

I apply 'vintage' to software as well as hardware. By my standards, there are
'vintage' versions of Windows. Any version of Windows running in "real" mode
is definitely 'vintage'. I once had Windows 3.0 running in real mode on an HP
200LX palmtop. This was really cool, but my stock 200LX is too slow for
serious use. A cottage industry grew up around the HP palmtops (95LX, 100LX
and 200LX) with all sorts of special software plus hardware memory and speed
upgrades that made runnning Windows almost feasible! Of course the next
problem was application software to run under real mode Windows, but that's
another story.

Now the HP palmtops are definitely vintage even though the 95LX was
introduced in 1991. Today the HP palmtops are just as vintage as their
ancestor, the HP-75C from 10 years earlier. The software vendors supporting
the HP palmtops were the same phenomenon as what grew up to support the Radio
Shack M100 in the 80's and no one would argue that the M100/M200 and the
software written for them are not vintage. [The M600 was so unique it is a
great example of how Tandy managed to shoot themselves in the foot.]

So is a Compaq Deskpro 386 vintage? Sure! It's old, it's obsolete and it was
unique when it was introduced! It's vintage status was quaranteed when Compaq
beat IBM to the marketplace with a 386-based PC. But is it collectible? No,
not really.

Next: Are IBM PS/2's vintage? Sure! The Microchannel architecture guarantees
their status as vintage for being IBM's biggest flop. What about Windows NT
3.1? It broke new ground on the PC with a design based on VMS.

Maybe we need a new category for "pioneer" computers made before 1980...

Jim

--- Evan <evan947@...> wrote:

> See, I don't know if you are kidding again ... but I challenge anyone TO*
> bring it up again if they've got a better definition ... because the one I
> gave just barely works.  The qualifier: no years-based solutions allowed.

> *Also, if you have a better solution, bring it up on classiccmp, not here.
> ;)
>
>   _____ 
>
> From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of billdeg@...
> Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2005 11:29 AM
> To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] what is considered a vintage apple
> computer?
>
>
> I will never bring this topic up again!  I am embarrassed.
>
>
>   _____ 
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
>      
> *      Visit your group "midatlanticretro
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro> " on the web.
>  
>
> *      To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:midatlanticretro-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>  
>
> *      Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>   _____ 
>
>
>


#1050 From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon Aug 1, 2005 7:57 pm
Subject: File - marchfaq.txt
midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Send Email Send Email
 
MARCH frequently asked questions

1. I'm a nerd and live somewhere between New York and Virginia, yet I
never heard of you before.

That's because we are new.  We began in early 2005.

2. What does MARCH mean?

We're "Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists" -- an informal club /
user group for fans of vintage computers. Our online home is
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/ -- we chose Yahoo not
because of its technical superiority (LOL!) but because it is
accessible to the masses.

3. Just how informal?

Informal enough that we have no officers and charge no dues, but not
so informal that we lack a mission.

4. What is this mission of which you speak?

Our mission is simply to bring together local collectors, both offline
and online, for fun and information sharing.

5. By 'vintage' do you mean, like, this old junky 486 in my closet?

No.  Someday that might be the case, but for now, no.  We mean the old
and not-so-junky Apple II hidden behind your 486.  We also mean your
Northstar Horizon, DEC PDP-11, Xerox Alto, Commodore Vic-20, and --
well you get the idea.  There used to be "the 10 year rule" saying
"it's vintage if it's more than 10 years old" but now that could mean
Windows 95 and Pentiums, and we definitely do NOT mean those.
Nowadays, "vintage" for computer collectors means (more or less)
anything from the pre-286 era.  Well, a copy of Windows 1.0 is vintage
software I guess.  But in general, if it runs Windows, we're not
interested.  That is NOT a function of being inherently anti-
Microsoft.  It's a function of Windows simply not being obsolete yet.
We can hope.  ;)

6. I still don't get it.  Where can I learn more about what's vintage?

Many places.  Pick up a copy of the book "Collectible Microcomputers"
by Michael Nadeau.  Or for non-micro aspects, go online.  Heck, go
online anyway.  Check out the classiccmp.org mailing lists; the
Vintage Computer Festival (vintage.org); old-computers.com; and many,
many, many others.

7. Where can I buy/sell/trade old computers?

If you're in the mid-Atlantic region, than please try the "Virtual
Swap Meet" table in our Yahoo group database.  Otherwise, try Sellam
Ismail's site ( http://vintagecomputermarketplace.org ) or Erik Klein's site
( http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum ) or as a last resort, eBay.

8. Okay, let's say I am interested in joining MARCH.  How?

Just post a friendly message to our boards introducing yourself.
Include your name, where you're from in the region, and what you
collect.  Presto!  You're joined.

9. That's cool.  So what do you geeks actually DO here?

We're currently figuring that out.  Our first offline event was a
vintage computers exhibit at the 30th Trenton Computer Festival.

10. What is the Trenton Computer Festival?

A 30-year-old show open to the public.  It is held at The College of
New Jersey, formerly known as Trenton State College, in Ewing, NJ.
This year it was on April 16-17.  Please see tcf-nj.org for more
information.

11. Who's me?

Sorry.  I'm Evan Koblentz.  A fellow big nerd.  I'm in central NJ.
You can reach me at evan947@....

12. Okay, ummm, so what else will MARCH do?

We have a few ideas.  We will probably have multiple swap meets.  We
may be hosting future, regional iterations of the already famous
Vintage Computer Festival.  We might even run our own museum, in
conjunction with the NJ Antique Radio Club -- see infoage.org.

14. MARCH is primarily a Jersey thing?

No.  It's just a coincidence.  We have members all around, from
upstate New York to central Pennsylvania to Virginia.  We will plan
our future events all over the area.

15. I have some other question not on this FAQ.

Okay.  Tell us what it is.  Do so again by posting to our message
boards or pinging me offline.

#1051 From: Kelly Leavitt <kelly@...>
Date: Mon Aug 1, 2005 8:11 pm
Subject: RE: File - marchfaq.txt
w2lv
Send Email Send Email
 
Hasn't article 3 changed just a bit?

-----Original Message-----
From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 8/1/2005 3:57 PM
Subject: [midatlanticretro] File - marchfaq.txt


MARCH frequently asked questions
<SNIP>

3. Just how informal?

Informal enough that we have no officers and charge no dues, but not
so informal that we lack a mission.

#1052 From: Kelly Leavitt <kelly@...>
Date: Mon Aug 1, 2005 8:13 pm
Subject: Question about InfoAge
w2lv
Send Email Send Email
 
Evan et al:
What size of display should we think about bringing? I'm thinking about a
6000, a DT-1 terminal, and a model 4 or 4p. Maybe the 100/102/200 series
also. Phew. Getting big again.

Any thoughts? I'm guessing we should keep it small, but how small?

Thanks, and sorry if this has been covered already.

73 de Kelly
KB2SYD

#1053 From: "Evan" <evan947@...>
Date: Mon Aug 1, 2005 8:24 pm
Subject: RE: File - marchfaq.txt
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
Good point!  Will update the FAQ soon.


From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Leavitt
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 4:12 PM
To: 'midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com '
Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] File - marchfaq.txt

Hasn't article 3 changed just a bit?

-----Original Message-----
From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 8/1/2005 3:57 PM
Subject: [midatlanticretro] File - marchfaq.txt


MARCH frequently asked questions
<SNIP>

3. Just how informal?

Informal enough that we have no officers and charge no dues, but not
so informal that we lack a mission.


#1054 From: "Evan" <evan947@...>
Date: Mon Aug 1, 2005 8:25 pm
Subject: RE: Question about InfoAge
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
No more than two or three systems per person.  (I don't know the size of our Aug. 13 room.)


From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Leavitt
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 4:14 PM
To: 'midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com'
Subject: [midatlanticretro] Question about InfoAge

Evan et al:
What size of display should we think about bringing? I'm thinking about a
6000, a DT-1 terminal, and a model 4 or 4p. Maybe the 100/102/200 series
also. Phew. Getting big again.

Any thoughts? I'm guessing we should keep it small, but how small?

Thanks, and sorry if this has been covered already.

73 de Kelly
KB2SYD

#1055 From: billdeg@...
Date: Mon Aug 1, 2005 5:23 pm
Subject: Re: Question about InfoAge
billdeg
Send Email Send Email
 
It would be appreciated if we could assign table space in advance.
bd

In a message dated 8/1/2005 4:25:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
evan947@... writes:

> No more than two or three systems per person.  (I don't know the size of our
>  Aug. 13 room.)

#1056 From: madodel@...
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 3:04 am
Subject: Re: what is considered a vintage apple computer?
madodel
Send Email Send Email
 
In <f5.5675a1db.301d776f@...>, on 07/30/05 at 08:38 PM,
    billdeg@... said:



>The last vintage Apple was the IIGS.  There is no such thing as a vintage
>MAC. And while we're at it, the IBM AT or newer is not vintage, any
>Amigas are not  vintage.  It does not matter how many years go by, MAC's
>will never be  vintage computers.  There is no sliding time scale where
>each year a new set of  machines becomes vintage.  In short, the vintage
>era ended for new machine models  that were first released no later than
>1987, and mostly before 1985.

>That does not mean that I don't save newer interesting computers however,
>I  just don't call them "vintage".

>Will the 1987 Plymough Sundance become a vintage car someday?  I think
>not.

>And for making such statements I am standing behind the chicken wire so
>feel  free to throw your beer bottles at will.  I expect differences in
>opinion.

>Thank you very much.


Though I agree there that a lot of stuff out there will never be of great
value, I wouldn't discount all IBM stuff.  I remember the guy who wrote
the original documentation for the original IBM PC.  They gave him the
very first PC ever made to write it on.  I asked what happened to that
machine and he said he didn't know, but assumed it was junked when they
replaced it with a newer model.  Can you imagine the value of the very
first IBM PC?  I know you said AT or newer, but there are some machines
after that that also might be of interest to collectors.

There is a very active group of IBM PS/2 collectors.  They fiercely defend
the PS/2 as one of the best computers ever made.  I'm not a collector
myself, but those machines were definitely better built than anything that
has come since.  I'm about to acquire an IBM PowerPC PS/2 machine from the
mid-90s, which was when IBM and Apple were still collaborating on what was
viewed as the replacement for the Intel based PCs.  It was supposed to run
IBM OS/2 and Apple's MacOS on the same hardware.  That particular product
line pretty much died before it was birthed, so there are only a few of
the original CHRP machines around, and though IBM officially released OS/2
Warp Power PC, they buried it so deep that it was almost impossible to
get.  So you can readily locate PowerPC machines today (IBM still uses PPC
chips in its AIX, AS400 and I'm told some mainframes, Apple is still using
PowerPC in their Macs, until they switch to Intel sometime later this
year, also most game systems use PPC CPUs like the GameCube and the
Playstation), these original machines should be highly valued.


Mark


--

  From the eComStation Desktop of: Mark Dodel

  Warpstock 2005, Hershey, Pennsylvania, October 6 - 9, 2005 
http://www.warpstock.org
  Warpstock Europe 2005, Dresden, Germany, Nov. 18-20 http://www.warpstock.net

For a choice in the future of personal computing, Join VOICE -
http://www.os2voice.org

   "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of
private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State
itself.   That in it's essence, is Fascism - ownership of government by an
individual, by a group or by any controlling private power." Franklin Delano
Roosevelt, Message proposing the Monopoly Investigation, 1938

#1057 From: "Evan" <evan947@...>
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 4:17 am
Subject: RE: what is considered a vintage apple computer?
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
Mark,
 
>>>  Can you imagine the value of the very first IBM PC?
 
We certainly can, and it's not high as you might think.  The original IBM PC - aka the Model 5150 - is worth about $50-$150 depending on condition, according to Mike Nadeau's book "Collectible Microcomputers".  The book is a year or two old, but the price is fairly steady.
 
I believe most people in the PS/2 universe, and elsewhere in x86-land, still consider themselves "users" more than "collectors".
 
An original PS/2 - which I hope you're not paying any more than about $50 for in great condition - might be considered really vintage and collectible in another couple of years for its 20th anniversary.
 
- Evan
 


From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of madodel@...
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 11:04 PM
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] what is considered a vintage apple computer?

In <f5.5675a1db.301d776f@...>, on 07/30/05 at 08:38 PM,
   billdeg@... said:



>The last vintage Apple was the IIGS.  There is no such thing as a vintage
>MAC. And while we're at it, the IBM AT or newer is not vintage, any
>Amigas are not  vintage.  It does not matter how many years go by, MAC's
>will never be  vintage computers.  There is no sliding time scale where
>each year a new set of  machines becomes vintage.  In short, the vintage
>era ended for new machine models  that were first released no later than
>1987, and mostly before 1985. 

>That does not mean that I don't save newer interesting computers however,
>I  just don't call them "vintage".

>Will the 1987 Plymough Sundance become a vintage car someday?  I think
>not.

>And for making such statements I am standing behind the chicken wire so
>feel  free to throw your beer bottles at will.  I expect differences in
>opinion.

>Thank you very much.


Though I agree there that a lot of stuff out there will never be of great
value, I wouldn't discount all IBM stuff.  I remember the guy who wrote
the original documentation for the original IBM PC.  They gave him the
very first PC ever made to write it on.  I asked what happened to that
machine and he said he didn't know, but assumed it was junked when they
replaced it with a newer model.  Can you imagine the value of the very
first IBM PC?  I know you said AT or newer, but there are some machines
after that that also might be of interest to collectors.

There is a very active group of IBM PS/2 collectors.  They fiercely defend
the PS/2 as one of the best computers ever made.  I'm not a collector
myself, but those machines were definitely better built than anything that
has come since.  I'm about to acquire an IBM PowerPC PS/2 machine from the
mid-90s, which was when IBM and Apple were still collaborating on what was
viewed as the replacement for the Intel based PCs.  It was supposed to run
IBM OS/2 and Apple's MacOS on the same hardware.  That particular product
line pretty much died before it was birthed, so there are only a few of
the original CHRP machines around, and though IBM officially released OS/2
Warp Power PC, they buried it so deep that it was almost impossible to
get.  So you can readily locate PowerPC machines today (IBM still uses PPC
chips in its AIX, AS400 and I'm told some mainframes, Apple is still using
PowerPC in their Macs, until they switch to Intel sometime later this
year, also most game systems use PPC CPUs like the GameCube and the
Playstation), these original machines should be highly valued.


Mark


--

From the eComStation Desktop of: Mark Dodel

Warpstock 2005, Hershey, Pennsylvania, October 6 - 9, 2005  http://www.warpstock.org
Warpstock Europe 2005, Dresden, Germany, Nov. 18-20 http://www.warpstock.net

For a choice in the future of personal computing, Join VOICE - http://www.os2voice.org

  "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself.   That in it's essence, is Fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Message proposing the Monopoly Investigation, 1938


#1058 From: "Evan" <evan947@...>
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 6:22 am
Subject: FW: Rescue help needed in southern NJ
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi folks,

VCF's Sellam Ismail asks if anyone from our group would pack and ship some
Apple II clones and other gear for him.  The loot is currently in Blackwood,
NJ (a bit south of Cherry Hill).  In exchange, he's offering a free VCF
t-shirt and he'll pick up your admission to any VCF event (which is VCF 8
this fall or our VCF East 3.0 next spring).  He also says the helper can
keep the monitors from the stash in question.  Of course, he will reimburse
the S/H costs.

What's to be packed and shipped:

- Three luggables
- a box of disks
- external hard drives
- box of miscellany

See photo here:

http://www.siconic.com/computers/franklin2.jpg

    - Evan

#1059 From: Bob Applegate <bob@...>
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 10:45 am
Subject: Re: FW: Rescue help needed in southern NJ
bobk2ut
Send Email Send Email
 
Evan <evan947@...> wrote :

> Hi folks,
>
> VCF's Sellam Ismail asks if anyone from our group would pack and ship some
> Apple II clones and other gear for him.  The loot is currently in
Blackwood,
> NJ (a bit south of Cherry Hill).  In exchange, he's offering a free VCF
> t-shirt and he'll pick up your admission to any VCF event (which is VCF 8
> this fall or our VCF East 3.0 next spring).  He also says the helper can
> keep the monitors from the stash in question.  Of course, he will
reimburse
> the S/H costs.
>
> What's to be packed and shipped:
>
> - Three luggables
> - a box of disks
> - external hard drives
> - box of miscellany
>
> See photo here:

That fellow kept trying to sell it all to ex-Franklin people, but nobody
would bite.  I worked on all the equipment in the pile and expressed an
interest, but wouldn't give firm prices.  Other Apple-clone guys (Ernest
at apple2clones.com) was also very interested.  This fellow picked up all
the stuff at the famous Franklin "yard sale" at the disco.

If anyone wants to lead the project, I'll volunteer to assist.  It'll be
fun to see all this stuff again.  All of the portables are Franklin CXs,
a "portable" machine that could read many different disk formats, ran
CP/M as well as FDOS (Franklin's much-improved DOS), etc.

Hey Bob Grieb, are you interested?  You worked on the CXs, right?

Bob


___________________________________
NOCC, http://nocc.sourceforge.net

#1060 From: madodel@...
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 11:08 am
Subject: RE: what is considered a vintage apple computer?
madodel
Send Email Send Email
 
In, on 08/02/05 at 12:17 AM,
    "Evan" <evan947@...> said:



>>>>  Can you imagine the value of the very first IBM PC?
>
>We certainly can, and it's not high as you might think.  The original IBM
>PC - aka the Model 5150 - is worth about $50-$150 depending on condition,
>according to Mike Nadeau's book "Collectible Microcomputers".  The book
>is a year or two old, but the price is fairly steady.
>

My point was not that it was an original IBM PC, but it was THE original
IBM PC. The very first one.  That puppy lead to the most successful
computer introduction ever.  IBM had predicted a total life sales of about
275,000 over 5 years for the PC.  They had about 500,000 sold before it
was even officially announced.  And now IBM is out of the PC business.


>I believe most people in the PS/2 universe, and elsewhere in x86-land,
>still consider themselves "users" more than "collectors".
>
>An original PS/2 - which I hope you're not paying any more than about $50
>for in great condition - might be considered really vintage and
>collectible in another couple of years for its 20th
>anniversary.

I agree.  Though there was just a model 55SX on eBay that was still in the
original shipping box, never used.  It had been in a computer dealer's
storage for about 15 years.  That I was willing to go as high as $150
before I gave up.  At $150 I thought it was way too high, however I'm
looking for vintage PS/2's for a specific reason, but some collectors are
just plain nuts. ;-)

Mark


--

  From the eComStation Desktop of: Mark Dodel

  Warpstock 2005, Hershey, Pennsylvania, October 6 - 9, 2005 
http://www.warpstock.org
  Warpstock Europe 2005, Dresden, Germany, Nov. 18-20 http://www.warpstock.net

For a choice in the future of personal computing, Join VOICE -
http://www.os2voice.org

   "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of
private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State
itself.   That in it's essence, is Fascism - ownership of government by an
individual, by a group or by any controlling private power." Franklin Delano
Roosevelt, Message proposing the Monopoly Investigation, 1938

#1061 From: "Michael Nadeau" <menadeau@...>
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 12:35 pm
Subject: Re: what is considered a vintage apple computer?
collectmicros
Send Email Send Email
 
>>>>  Can you imagine the value of the very first IBM PC?
>
>We certainly can, and it's not high as you might think.  The original IBM
>PC - aka the Model 5150 - is worth about $50-$150 depending on condition,
>according to Mike Nadeau's book "Collectible Microcomputers".  The book
>is a year or two old, but the price is fairly steady.
>

My point was not that it was an original IBM PC, but it was THE original
IBM PC. The very first one.  That puppy lead to the most successful
computer introduction ever.  IBM had predicted a total life sales of about
275,000 over 5 years for the PC.  They had about 500,000 sold before it
was even officially announced.  And now IBM is out of the PC business.

---
For the 15th anniversary issue of BYTE, we were interviewing one of the original designers of the first PC when he asked, "would you like us to send you the prototype? It's in a closet around here somewhere." We got the prototype a short time later. It was just the motherboard, quite dusty. If you have the September 1990 issue, you can see a couple of photos on pages 416 and 417.
 
--Mike

#1062 From: "Evan" <evan947@...>
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 12:53 pm
Subject: RE: what is considered a vintage apple computer?
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
I'm confused.  Do mean "THE original" as in IBM PC, serial number 1, or do you mean a machine like the 5100, which was IBM's first microcomputer long before the "PC" series?
 
If it's the former, serial number 1, then it should reside in a museum -- like ours, since we'll be the nearest computer museum to IBM headquarters in Armonk, NY.


From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of madodel@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 7:09 AM
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] what is considered a vintage apple computer?

In, on 08/02/05 at 12:17 AM,
   "Evan" <evan947@...> said:



>>>>  Can you imagine the value of the very first IBM PC?
>
>We certainly can, and it's not high as you might think.  The original IBM
>PC - aka the Model 5150 - is worth about $50-$150 depending on condition,
>according to Mike Nadeau's book "Collectible Microcomputers".  The book
>is a year or two old, but the price is fairly steady.
>

My point was not that it was an original IBM PC, but it was THE original
IBM PC. The very first one.  That puppy lead to the most successful
computer introduction ever.  IBM had predicted a total life sales of about
275,000 over 5 years for the PC.  They had about 500,000 sold before it
was even officially announced.  And now IBM is out of the PC business.


>I believe most people in the PS/2 universe, and elsewhere in x86-land,
>still consider themselves "users" more than "collectors".
>
>An original PS/2 - which I hope you're not paying any more than about $50
>for in great condition - might be considered really vintage and
>collectible in another couple of years for its 20th
>anniversary.

I agree.  Though there was just a model 55SX on eBay that was still in the
original shipping box, never used.  It had been in a computer dealer's
storage for about 15 years.  That I was willing to go as high as $150
before I gave up.  At $150 I thought it was way too high, however I'm
looking for vintage PS/2's for a specific reason, but some collectors are
just plain nuts. ;-) 

Mark


--

From the eComStation Desktop of: Mark Dodel

Warpstock 2005, Hershey, Pennsylvania, October 6 - 9, 2005  http://www.warpstock.org
Warpstock Europe 2005, Dresden, Germany, Nov. 18-20 http://www.warpstock.net

For a choice in the future of personal computing, Join VOICE - http://www.os2voice.org

  "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself.   That in it's essence, is Fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Message proposing the Monopoly Investigation, 1938


#1063 From: Jim Scheef <jscheef@...>
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 12:51 pm
Subject: Re: File - marchfaq.txt
jscheef
Send Email Send Email
 
Could we change "New York" to "Connecticut"? :-)

Jim

--- midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>
> MARCH frequently asked questions
>
> 1. I'm a nerd and live somewhere between New York and Virginia, yet I
> never heard of you before.
>
> That's because we are new.  We began in early 2005.
>
> 2. What does MARCH mean?
>
> We're "Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists" -- an informal club /
> user group for fans of vintage computers. Our online home is
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/ -- we chose Yahoo not
> because of its technical superiority (LOL!) but because it is
> accessible to the masses.
>
> 3. Just how informal?
>
> Informal enough that we have no officers and charge no dues, but not
> so informal that we lack a mission.
>
> 4. What is this mission of which you speak?
>
> Our mission is simply to bring together local collectors, both offline
> and online, for fun and information sharing.
>
> 5. By 'vintage' do you mean, like, this old junky 486 in my closet?
>
> No.  Someday that might be the case, but for now, no.  We mean the old
> and not-so-junky Apple II hidden behind your 486.  We also mean your
> Northstar Horizon, DEC PDP-11, Xerox Alto, Commodore Vic-20, and --
> well you get the idea.  There used to be "the 10 year rule" saying
> "it's vintage if it's more than 10 years old" but now that could mean
> Windows 95 and Pentiums, and we definitely do NOT mean those.
> Nowadays, "vintage" for computer collectors means (more or less)
> anything from the pre-286 era.  Well, a copy of Windows 1.0 is vintage
> software I guess.  But in general, if it runs Windows, we're not
> interested.  That is NOT a function of being inherently anti-
> Microsoft.  It's a function of Windows simply not being obsolete yet.
> We can hope.  ;)
>
> 6. I still don't get it.  Where can I learn more about what's vintage?
>
> Many places.  Pick up a copy of the book "Collectible Microcomputers"
> by Michael Nadeau.  Or for non-micro aspects, go online.  Heck, go
> online anyway.  Check out the classiccmp.org mailing lists; the
> Vintage Computer Festival (vintage.org); old-computers.com; and many,
> many, many others.
>
> 7. Where can I buy/sell/trade old computers?
>
> If you're in the mid-Atlantic region, than please try the "Virtual
> Swap Meet" table in our Yahoo group database.  Otherwise, try Sellam
> Ismail's site ( http://vintagecomputermarketplace.org ) or Erik Klein's
> site
> ( http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum ) or as a last resort, eBay.
>
> 8. Okay, let's say I am interested in joining MARCH.  How?
>
> Just post a friendly message to our boards introducing yourself.
> Include your name, where you're from in the region, and what you
> collect.  Presto!  You're joined.
>
> 9. That's cool.  So what do you geeks actually DO here?
>
> We're currently figuring that out.  Our first offline event was a
> vintage computers exhibit at the 30th Trenton Computer Festival.
>
> 10. What is the Trenton Computer Festival?
>
> A 30-year-old show open to the public.  It is held at The College of
> New Jersey, formerly known as Trenton State College, in Ewing, NJ.
> This year it was on April 16-17.  Please see tcf-nj.org for more
> information.
>
> 11. Who's me?
>
> Sorry.  I'm Evan Koblentz.  A fellow big nerd.  I'm in central NJ.
> You can reach me at evan947@....
>
> 12. Okay, ummm, so what else will MARCH do?
>
> We have a few ideas.  We will probably have multiple swap meets.  We
> may be hosting future, regional iterations of the already famous
> Vintage Computer Festival.  We might even run our own museum, in
> conjunction with the NJ Antique Radio Club -- see infoage.org.
>
> 14. MARCH is primarily a Jersey thing?
>
> No.  It's just a coincidence.  We have members all around, from
> upstate New York to central Pennsylvania to Virginia.  We will plan
> our future events all over the area.
>
> 15. I have some other question not on this FAQ.
>
> Okay.  Tell us what it is.  Do so again by posting to our message
> boards or pinging me offline.
>

#1064 From: "Evan" <evan947@...>
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 12:59 pm
Subject: RE: File - marchfaq.txt
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
Will do, sorry.  When I wrote that, I was thinking of Connecticut as New England, not Mid-Atlantic.


From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Scheef
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:52 AM
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] File - marchfaq.txt

Could we change "New York" to "Connecticut"? :-)

Jim

--- midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>
> MARCH frequently asked questions
>
> 1. I'm a nerd and live somewhere between New York and Virginia, yet I
> never heard of you before.
>
> That's because we are new.  We began in early 2005.
>
> 2. What does MARCH mean?
>
> We're "Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists" -- an informal club /
> user group for fans of vintage computers. Our online home is
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/ -- we chose Yahoo not
> because of its technical superiority (LOL!) but because it is
> accessible to the masses.
>
> 3. Just how informal?
>
> Informal enough that we have no officers and charge no dues, but not
> so informal that we lack a mission.
>
> 4. What is this mission of which you speak?
>
> Our mission is simply to bring together local collectors, both offline
> and online, for fun and information sharing.
>
> 5. By 'vintage' do you mean, like, this old junky 486 in my closet?
>
> No.  Someday that might be the case, but for now, no.  We mean the old
> and not-so-junky Apple II hidden behind your 486.  We also mean your
> Northstar Horizon, DEC PDP-11, Xerox Alto, Commodore Vic-20, and --
> well you get the idea.  There used to be "the 10 year rule" saying
> "it's vintage if it's more than 10 years old" but now that could mean
> Windows 95 and Pentiums, and we definitely do NOT mean those. 
> Nowadays, "vintage" for computer collectors means (more or less)
> anything from the pre-286 era.  Well, a copy of Windows 1.0 is vintage
> software I guess.  But in general, if it runs Windows, we're not
> interested.  That is NOT a function of being inherently anti-
> Microsoft.  It's a function of Windows simply not being obsolete yet. 
> We can hope.  ;)
>
> 6. I still don't get it.  Where can I learn more about what's vintage?
>
> Many places.  Pick up a copy of the book "Collectible Microcomputers"
> by Michael Nadeau.  Or for non-micro aspects, go online.  Heck, go
> online anyway.  Check out the classiccmp.org mailing lists; the
> Vintage Computer Festival (vintage.org); old-computers.com; and many,
> many, many others.
>
> 7. Where can I buy/sell/trade old computers?
>
> If you're in the mid-Atlantic region, than please try the "Virtual
> Swap Meet" table in our Yahoo group database.  Otherwise, try Sellam
> Ismail's site ( http://vintagecomputermarketplace.org ) or Erik Klein's
> site
> ( http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum ) or as a last resort, eBay.
>
> 8. Okay, let's say I am interested in joining MARCH.  How?
>
> Just post a friendly message to our boards introducing yourself. 
> Include your name, where you're from in the region, and what you
> collect.  Presto!  You're joined.
>
> 9. That's cool.  So what do you geeks actually DO here?
>
> We're currently figuring that out.  Our first offline event was a
> vintage computers exhibit at the 30th Trenton Computer Festival.
>
> 10. What is the Trenton Computer Festival?
>
> A 30-year-old show open to the public.  It is held at The College of
> New Jersey, formerly known as Trenton State College, in Ewing, NJ. 
> This year it was on April 16-17.  Please see tcf-nj.org for more
> information.
>
> 11. Who's me?
>
> Sorry.  I'm Evan Koblentz.  A fellow big nerd.  I'm in central NJ. 
> You can reach me at evan947@....

> 12. Okay, ummm, so what else will MARCH do?
>
> We have a few ideas.  We will probably have multiple swap meets.  We
> may be hosting future, regional iterations of the already famous
> Vintage Computer Festival.  We might even run our own museum, in
> conjunction with the NJ Antique Radio Club -- see infoage.org.
>
> 14. MARCH is primarily a Jersey thing?
>
> No.  It's just a coincidence.  We have members all around, from
> upstate New York to central Pennsylvania to Virginia.  We will plan
> our future events all over the area.
>
> 15. I have some other question not on this FAQ.
>
> Okay.  Tell us what it is.  Do so again by posting to our message
> boards or pinging me offline.
>


#1065 From: "Bob Applegate" <bob@...>
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 12:58 pm
Subject: Re: what is considered a vintage apple computer?
bobk2ut
Send Email Send Email
 
The PC was designed in Boca Raton, not Armonk.
 
BTW, one of the main architects of the original PC was a guy named Lew Eggebrecht (hope I got the
spelling right).  He floated around southern NJ at high-tech companies after leaving IBM.  He was at
Franklin Computer from around 83 to 84, then DGM&S in the late 80s.  The last I heard, he was out
west doing something.
 
Lew personally designed MUCH of the original PC.  There are others on this list who worked
directly for him and can probably share some of their experiences/knowledge.
 
Bob
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Evan
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:53 AM
Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] what is considered a vintage apple computer?

I'm confused.  Do mean "THE original" as in IBM PC, serial number 1, or do you mean a machine like the 5100, which was IBM's first microcomputer long before the "PC" series?
 
If it's the former, serial number 1, then it should reside in a museum -- like ours, since we'll be the nearest computer museum to IBM headquarters in Armonk, NY.


From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of madodel@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 7:09 AM
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] what is considered a vintage apple computer?

In, on 08/02/05 at 12:17 AM,
   "Evan" <evan947@...> said:



>>>>  Can you imagine the value of the very first IBM PC?
>
>We certainly can, and it's not high as you might think.  The original IBM
>PC - aka the Model 5150 - is worth about $50-$150 depending on condition,
>according to Mike Nadeau's book "Collectible Microcomputers".  The book
>is a year or two old, but the price is fairly steady.
>

My point was not that it was an original IBM PC, but it was THE original
IBM PC. The very first one.  That puppy lead to the most successful
computer introduction ever.  IBM had predicted a total life sales of about
275,000 over 5 years for the PC.  They had about 500,000 sold before it
was even officially announced.  And now IBM is out of the PC business.


>I believe most people in the PS/2 universe, and elsewhere in x86-land,
>still consider themselves "users" more than "collectors".
>
>An original PS/2 - which I hope you're not paying any more than about $50
>for in great condition - might be considered really vintage and
>collectible in another couple of years for its 20th
>anniversary.

I agree.  Though there was just a model 55SX on eBay that was still in the
original shipping box, never used.  It had been in a computer dealer's
storage for about 15 years.  That I was willing to go as high as $150
before I gave up.  At $150 I thought it was way too high, however I'm
looking for vintage PS/2's for a specific reason, but some collectors are
just plain nuts. ;-) 

Mark


--

From the eComStation Desktop of: Mark Dodel

Warpstock 2005, Hershey, Pennsylvania, October 6 - 9, 2005  http://www.warpstock.org
Warpstock Europe 2005, Dresden, Germany, Nov. 18-20 http://www.warpstock.net

For a choice in the future of personal computing, Join VOICE - http://www.os2voice.org

  "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself.   That in it's essence, is Fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Message proposing the Monopoly Investigation, 1938


#1066 From: "Evan" <evan947@...>
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 1:10 pm
Subject: RE: what is considered a vintage apple computer?
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
>>> There are others on this list who worked directly for him and can probably share some of their experiences/knowledge.
 
Very interesting!  Speak up, people!
 
Here's a story I wrote for the Feb. 2, 2004 issue of Computer Collector:
 
-----------------------------------------------
 
It was either Ctrl-Alt-Del, or shorting two contacts with a screwdriver.

David Bradley chose the former method for doing a warm reboot of IBM's original PC, and he did a lot more.

"Early in '81, we were dealing with prototype software, prototype hardware, and as you would attempt to try things out it would hang up. We needed a faster way than turning the power off, waiting a moment, turning it back on. I stuffed a specific value in a location in memory and jumped to the reset vector," he explained, in an interview with Computer Collector today.

But why'd he pick those three keys? "It's not as if somebody said 'we need you to pick out three keys to reboot the machine'," he explained. "Two of them had to be shift keys," since most of the IBM PC's memory was already spoken for. "I'm already tracking whether these four shift keys are up or down. So I picked Ctrl and Alt as the two newest, least used keys. Ctrl-Alt-Delete has a better mnemonic feel than Ctrl-Alt-Plus," he said.

"The systems we had in the lab, it was easy to reset them, you just struck a screwdriver across a couple of contacts."

For Bradley, now 55, it was hardly the highlight of his career. He graduated in 1971 from the University of Dayton (Ohio), the same year as Intel released the 4004 chip, and received his Ph.D. from Purdue in 1975, the year of MITS' Altair kit. "The first computer I ever used would have been a [IBM] 360," he said. He joined IBM in June 1975 and worked on the System/23 Datamaster in 1978 - IBM's first computer with a non-IBM processor. For the IBM PC, he wrote the entire BIOS. "I wrote virtually all of the code that's there with the exception of the cassette and the power-on self-test," he said.

Had they known it'd last 20 years, some things would have been done differently. For example, "The interrupts on what's now called the ISA bus are positive-edge triggered and we should have made them negative. The consequence of that decision is it was impossible to share interrupts," he said.

Bradley said he doesn't maintain a personal collection, but has owned various significant machines over the years. "For a while I had one of the original lab-built IBM PCs, but unfortunately in a move, I have no idea what happened to it. I may still have an old Timex Sinclair 1000 sitting around somewhere.


From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bob Applegate
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:59 AM
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] what is considered a vintage apple computer?

The PC was designed in Boca Raton, not Armonk.
 
BTW, one of the main architects of the original PC was a guy named Lew Eggebrecht (hope I got the
spelling right).  He floated around southern NJ at high-tech companies after leaving IBM.  He was at
Franklin Computer from around 83 to 84, then DGM&S in the late 80s.  The last I heard, he was out
west doing something.
 
Lew personally designed MUCH of the original PC.  There are others on this list who worked
directly for him and can probably share some of their experiences/knowledge.
 
Bob
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Evan
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:53 AM
Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] what is considered a vintage apple computer?

I'm confused.  Do mean "THE original" as in IBM PC, serial number 1, or do you mean a machine like the 5100, which was IBM's first microcomputer long before the "PC" series?
 
If it's the former, serial number 1, then it should reside in a museum -- like ours, since we'll be the nearest computer museum to IBM headquarters in Armonk, NY.


From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of madodel@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 7:09 AM
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] what is considered a vintage apple computer?

In, on 08/02/05 at 12:17 AM,
   "Evan" <evan947@...> said:



>>>>  Can you imagine the value of the very first IBM PC?
>
>We certainly can, and it's not high as you might think.  The original IBM
>PC - aka the Model 5150 - is worth about $50-$150 depending on condition,
>according to Mike Nadeau's book "Collectible Microcomputers".  The book
>is a year or two old, but the price is fairly steady.
>

My point was not that it was an original IBM PC, but it was THE original
IBM PC. The very first one.  That puppy lead to the most successful
computer introduction ever.  IBM had predicted a total life sales of about
275,000 over 5 years for the PC.  They had about 500,000 sold before it
was even officially announced.  And now IBM is out of the PC business.


>I believe most people in the PS/2 universe, and elsewhere in x86-land,
>still consider themselves "users" more than "collectors".
>
>An original PS/2 - which I hope you're not paying any more than about $50
>for in great condition - might be considered really vintage and
>collectible in another couple of years for its 20th
>anniversary.

I agree.  Though there was just a model 55SX on eBay that was still in the
original shipping box, never used.  It had been in a computer dealer's
storage for about 15 years.  That I was willing to go as high as $150
before I gave up.  At $150 I thought it was way too high, however I'm
looking for vintage PS/2's for a specific reason, but some collectors are
just plain nuts. ;-) 

Mark


--

From the eComStation Desktop of: Mark Dodel

Warpstock 2005, Hershey, Pennsylvania, October 6 - 9, 2005  http://www.warpstock.org
Warpstock Europe 2005, Dresden, Germany, Nov. 18-20 http://www.warpstock.net

For a choice in the future of personal computing, Join VOICE - http://www.os2voice.org

  "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State itself.   That in it's essence, is Fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group or by any controlling private power." Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Message proposing the Monopoly Investigation, 1938


#1067 From: Jim Scheef <jscheef@...>
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 1:29 pm
Subject: RE: File - marchfaq.txt
jscheef
Send Email Send Email
 
Evan,

Stop thinking regional.

Jim

--- Evan <evan947@...> wrote:

> Will do, sorry.  When I wrote that, I was thinking of Connecticut as New
> England, not Mid-Atlantic.
>
>   _____
>
> From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Scheef
> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:52 AM
> To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] File - marchfaq.txt
>
>
> Could we change "New York" to "Connecticut"? :-)
>
> Jim
>
> --- midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> >
> > MARCH frequently asked questions
> >
> > 1. I'm a nerd and live somewhere between New York and Virginia, yet I
> > never heard of you before.
> >
> > That's because we are new.  We began in early 2005.
> >
> > 2. What does MARCH mean?
> >
> > We're "Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists" -- an informal club /
> > user group for fans of vintage computers. Our online home is
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/ -- we chose Yahoo not
> > because of its technical superiority (LOL!) but because it is
> > accessible to the masses.
> >
> > 3. Just how informal?
> >
> > Informal enough that we have no officers and charge no dues, but not
> > so informal that we lack a mission.
> >
> > 4. What is this mission of which you speak?
> >
> > Our mission is simply to bring together local collectors, both offline
> > and online, for fun and information sharing.
> >
> > 5. By 'vintage' do you mean, like, this old junky 486 in my closet?
> >
> > No.  Someday that might be the case, but for now, no.  We mean the old
> > and not-so-junky Apple II hidden behind your 486.  We also mean your
> > Northstar Horizon, DEC PDP-11, Xerox Alto, Commodore Vic-20, and --
> > well you get the idea.  There used to be "the 10 year rule" saying
> > "it's vintage if it's more than 10 years old" but now that could mean
> > Windows 95 and Pentiums, and we definitely do NOT mean those.
> > Nowadays, "vintage" for computer collectors means (more or less)
> > anything from the pre-286 era.  Well, a copy of Windows 1.0 is vintage
> > software I guess.  But in general, if it runs Windows, we're not
> > interested.  That is NOT a function of being inherently anti-
> > Microsoft.  It's a function of Windows simply not being obsolete yet.
> > We can hope.  ;)
> >
> > 6. I still don't get it.  Where can I learn more about what's vintage?
> >
> > Many places.  Pick up a copy of the book "Collectible Microcomputers"
> > by Michael Nadeau.  Or for non-micro aspects, go online.  Heck, go
> > online anyway.  Check out the classiccmp.org mailing lists; the
> > Vintage Computer Festival (vintage.org); old-computers.com; and many,
> > many, many others.
> >
> > 7. Where can I buy/sell/trade old computers?
> >
> > If you're in the mid-Atlantic region, than please try the "Virtual
> > Swap Meet" table in our Yahoo group database.  Otherwise, try Sellam
> > Ismail's site ( http://vintagecomputermarketplace.org ) or Erik Klein's
> > site
> > ( http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum ) or as a last resort, eBay.
> >
> > 8. Okay, let's say I am interested in joining MARCH.  How?
> >
> > Just post a friendly message to our boards introducing yourself.
> > Include your name, where you're from in the region, and what you
> > collect.  Presto!  You're joined.
> >
> > 9. That's cool.  So what do you geeks actually DO here?
> >
> > We're currently figuring that out.  Our first offline event was a
> > vintage computers exhibit at the 30th Trenton Computer Festival.
> >
> > 10. What is the Trenton Computer Festival?
> >
> > A 30-year-old show open to the public.  It is held at The College of
> > New Jersey, formerly known as Trenton State College, in Ewing, NJ.
> > This year it was on April 16-17.  Please see tcf-nj.org for more
> > information.
> >
> > 11. Who's me?
> >
> > Sorry.  I'm Evan Koblentz.  A fellow big nerd.  I'm in central NJ.
> > You can reach me at evan947@....
> >
> > 12. Okay, ummm, so what else will MARCH do?
> >
> > We have a few ideas.  We will probably have multiple swap meets.  We
> > may be hosting future, regional iterations of the already famous
> > Vintage Computer Festival.  We might even run our own museum, in
> > conjunction with the NJ Antique Radio Club -- see infoage.org.
> >
> > 14. MARCH is primarily a Jersey thing?
> >
> > No.  It's just a coincidence.  We have members all around, from
> > upstate New York to central Pennsylvania to Virginia.  We will plan
> > our future events all over the area.
> >
> > 15. I have some other question not on this FAQ.
> >
> > Okay.  Tell us what it is.  Do so again by posting to our message
> > boards or pinging me offline.
> >
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
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#1068 From: "Evan" <evan947@...>
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 1:41 pm
Subject: RE: File - marchfaq.txt
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
Why?  It's who we are.
 
Anyone's welcome here, of course, but if people start arriving from too far north, west, or south, they'll be gently nudged to classiccmp or other regional groups.


From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Scheef
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 9:30 AM
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [midatlanticretro] File - marchfaq.txt

Evan,

Stop thinking regional.

Jim

--- Evan <evan947@...> wrote:

> Will do, sorry.  When I wrote that, I was thinking of Connecticut as New
> England, not Mid-Atlantic.
>
>   _____ 
>
> From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jim Scheef
> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 8:52 AM
> To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [midatlanticretro] File - marchfaq.txt
>
>
> Could we change "New York" to "Connecticut"? :-)
>
> Jim
>
> --- midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> >
> > MARCH frequently asked questions
> >
> > 1. I'm a nerd and live somewhere between New York and Virginia, yet I
> > never heard of you before.
> >
> > That's because we are new.  We began in early 2005.
> >
> > 2. What does MARCH mean?
> >
> > We're "Mid-Atlantic Retro Computing Hobbyists" -- an informal club /
> > user group for fans of vintage computers. Our online home is
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/midatlanticretro/ -- we chose Yahoo not
> > because of its technical superiority (LOL!) but because it is
> > accessible to the masses.
> >
> > 3. Just how informal?
> >
> > Informal enough that we have no officers and charge no dues, but not
> > so informal that we lack a mission.
> >
> > 4. What is this mission of which you speak?
> >
> > Our mission is simply to bring together local collectors, both offline
> > and online, for fun and information sharing.
> >
> > 5. By 'vintage' do you mean, like, this old junky 486 in my closet?
> >
> > No.  Someday that might be the case, but for now, no.  We mean the old
> > and not-so-junky Apple II hidden behind your 486.  We also mean your
> > Northstar Horizon, DEC PDP-11, Xerox Alto, Commodore Vic-20, and --
> > well you get the idea.  There used to be "the 10 year rule" saying
> > "it's vintage if it's more than 10 years old" but now that could mean
> > Windows 95 and Pentiums, and we definitely do NOT mean those. 
> > Nowadays, "vintage" for computer collectors means (more or less)
> > anything from the pre-286 era.  Well, a copy of Windows 1.0 is vintage
> > software I guess.  But in general, if it runs Windows, we're not
> > interested.  That is NOT a function of being inherently anti-
> > Microsoft.  It's a function of Windows simply not being obsolete yet. 
> > We can hope.  ;)
> >
> > 6. I still don't get it.  Where can I learn more about what's vintage?
> >
> > Many places.  Pick up a copy of the book "Collectible Microcomputers"
> > by Michael Nadeau.  Or for non-micro aspects, go online.  Heck, go
> > online anyway.  Check out the classiccmp.org mailing lists; the
> > Vintage Computer Festival (vintage.org); old-computers.com; and many,
> > many, many others.
> >
> > 7. Where can I buy/sell/trade old computers?
> >
> > If you're in the mid-Atlantic region, than please try the "Virtual
> > Swap Meet" table in our Yahoo group database.  Otherwise, try Sellam
> > Ismail's site ( http://vintagecomputermarketplace.org ) or Erik Klein's
> > site
> > ( http://www.vintage-computer.com/vcforum ) or as a last resort, eBay.
> >
> > 8. Okay, let's say I am interested in joining MARCH.  How?
> >
> > Just post a friendly message to our boards introducing yourself. 
> > Include your name, where you're from in the region, and what you
> > collect.  Presto!  You're joined.
> >
> > 9. That's cool.  So what do you geeks actually DO here?
> >
> > We're currently figuring that out.  Our first offline event was a
> > vintage computers exhibit at the 30th Trenton Computer Festival.
> >
> > 10. What is the Trenton Computer Festival?
> >
> > A 30-year-old show open to the public.  It is held at The College of
> > New Jersey, formerly known as Trenton State College, in Ewing, NJ. 
> > This year it was on April 16-17.  Please see tcf-nj.org for more
> > information.
> >
> > 11. Who's me?
> >
> > Sorry.  I'm Evan Koblentz.  A fellow big nerd.  I'm in central NJ. 
> > You can reach me at evan947@....
> > 
> > 12. Okay, ummm, so what else will MARCH do?
> >
> > We have a few ideas.  We will probably have multiple swap meets.  We
> > may be hosting future, regional iterations of the already famous
> > Vintage Computer Festival.  We might even run our own museum, in
> > conjunction with the NJ Antique Radio Club -- see infoage.org.
> >
> > 14. MARCH is primarily a Jersey thing?
> >
> > No.  It's just a coincidence.  We have members all around, from
> > upstate New York to central Pennsylvania to Virginia.  We will plan
> > our future events all over the area.
> >
> > 15. I have some other question not on this FAQ.
> >
> > Okay.  Tell us what it is.  Do so again by posting to our message
> > boards or pinging me offline.
> >
>
>
>
>   _____ 
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#1069 From: madodel@...
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 1:11 pm
Subject: RE: what is considered a vintage apple computer?
madodel
Send Email Send Email
 
In, on 08/02/05 at 08:53 AM,
    "Evan" <evan947@...> said:



>I'm confused.  Do mean "THE original" as in IBM PC, serial number 1, or
>do you mean a machine like the 5100, which was IBM's first microcomputer
>long before the "PC" series?
>
>If it's the former, serial number 1, then it should reside in a museum --
>like ours, since we'll be the nearest computer museum to IBM headquarters
>in Armonk, NY.

According to David Both, it was the very first IBM PC off the assembly
line.  They gave it to him so he could figure out what documentation it
needed.

Mark

--

  From the eComStation Desktop of: Mark Dodel

  Warpstock 2005, Hershey, Pennsylvania, October 6 - 9, 2005 
http://www.warpstock.org
  Warpstock Europe 2005, Dresden, Germany, Nov. 18-20 http://www.warpstock.net

For a choice in the future of personal computing, Join VOICE -
http://www.os2voice.org

   "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of
private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic State
itself.   That in it's essence, is Fascism - ownership of government by an
individual, by a group or by any controlling private power." Franklin Delano
Roosevelt, Message proposing the Monopoly Investigation, 1938

#1070 From: billdeg@...
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 4:01 pm
Subject: InfoAgo Chat? Monday?
billdeg
Send Email Send Email
 
I may have missed a reply to my inquiry...is there a chat scheduled for this monday to discuss the infoage gathering?
 
I plan to bring
1) a shelf case of TRS 80 model II/12/16 (and some model 4) components and software (not the computers),
2) candidate external harddrives for the TRS 80 Model 4 with cables.
3) an IMSAI 8080
4) SOL terminal computer (just for show). 
5) A monitor and disk drives for the IMSAI
6) IMSAI/SOL software
7) Evan still need a basic color monitor?
8) Cable making equipment, tools
9) stuff to give away as room in my car permits. 
 
My goal is to work on the IMSAI with Bill (and anyone interested) and the TRS 80 stuff with Kelly (and anyone interested). 
 
I assume Bill and Kelly are still coming?
 
I could use a red switch for the IMSAI if anyone has a spare.
 
Bill Degnan

#1071 From: "Evan" <evan947@...>
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 8:24 pm
Subject: RE: InfoAgo Chat? Monday?
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
You didn't miss any reply, I just didn't reply yet.   :)
 
Busy here this Monday night, but we can do this over email -- we pulled off TCF and that was a lot more complicated, right?
 
Fred says there are two rooms available for 8/13 -- one is 12x15 ft. and the other is 12x28 ft. -- and we can have our pick.  The TCF room was 20x40, and that was almost full with 12 or 14 tables (I forget which), so I think the 12x28 room will be more than enough for the five or six of us.  Better to have extra space than to be over-crowded.
 
InfoAge will supply the tables.  So we all need to bring power strips, extension cords, and electric fans, just in case!  Also, I will bring the tableclothes that I purchased for TCF but were not used.
 
Bill S. and Kelly -- are you both still planning to attend?
 
So in theory, it's me, Jim, Bill D., Bill S., and Kelly, plus a table or two for whatever we can "grab" out of the Grabbe collection that morning, plus an extra table for hands-on work space and miscellaneous stuff -- I'll tell Fred that we need eight tables.
 
In this small set-up, there's no need to worry about the layout, we'll just configure it that morning.  Again, I will be there super-early, probably around 8.  (From a prior message: >>> the gates will open to the public at 10, the ceremony begins at 11, and we should be done by 2 or 3 or whenever the public's finished milling around.  Tours will run all day long.)
 
Can someone print up some dot-matrix banners with our club name?


From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of billdeg@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 4:01 PM
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [midatlanticretro] InfoAgo Chat? Monday?

I may have missed a reply to my inquiry...is there a chat scheduled for this monday to discuss the infoage gathering?
 
I plan to bring
1) a shelf case of TRS 80 model II/12/16 (and some model 4) components and software (not the computers),
2) candidate external harddrives for the TRS 80 Model 4 with cables.
3) an IMSAI 8080
4) SOL terminal computer (just for show). 
5) A monitor and disk drives for the IMSAI
6) IMSAI/SOL software
7) Evan still need a basic color monitor?
8) Cable making equipment, tools
9) stuff to give away as room in my car permits. 
 
My goal is to work on the IMSAI with Bill (and anyone interested) and the TRS 80 stuff with Kelly (and anyone interested). 
 
I assume Bill and Kelly are still coming?
 
I could use a red switch for the IMSAI if anyone has a spare.
 
Bill Degnan

#1072 From: "Bill Sudbrink" <wh.sudbrink@...>
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 9:25 pm
Subject: RE: InfoAgo Chat? Monday?
bsudbrink
Send Email Send Email
 
Coming.
 
Bringing spare red IMSAI front panel switch.  I assume you mean the plastic "slap"
lever switch.  I have a bunch of those.  I don't have a spare "rocker" style power switch.
But, those never break anyway (but they can get very dirty).  Also, bringing various tools
and spare S-100 boards useful in troubleshooting an IMSAI.
 
Bringing a couple of fans, some extension cords and power strips.  Should I bring a
couple of folding chairs?
 
Bringing my Sol and OSI C4P-MF.
 
Not bringing the Northstar and ADM-3A as leaving it behind will make some more room in
my car for the fans and it sounds like we want to keep this event a little smaller anyway.
 
Also, if I don't kill him first, probably bringing my 12-year-old son (which will probably
be a mistake).
 
Bill Sudbrink

#1073 From: "Evan" <evan947@...>
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 9:33 pm
Subject: RE: InfoAgo Chat? Monday?
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
>>> Evan still need a basic color monitor?
 
Yes please.  For connecting to the RCA-style jack on my Apple //c.


From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of billdeg@...
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 4:01 PM
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [midatlanticretro] InfoAgo Chat? Monday?

I may have missed a reply to my inquiry...is there a chat scheduled for this monday to discuss the infoage gathering?
 
I plan to bring
1) a shelf case of TRS 80 model II/12/16 (and some model 4) components and software (not the computers),
2) candidate external harddrives for the TRS 80 Model 4 with cables.
3) an IMSAI 8080
4) SOL terminal computer (just for show). 
5) A monitor and disk drives for the IMSAI
6) IMSAI/SOL software
7) Evan still need a basic color monitor?
8) Cable making equipment, tools
9) stuff to give away as room in my car permits. 
 
My goal is to work on the IMSAI with Bill (and anyone interested) and the TRS 80 stuff with Kelly (and anyone interested). 
 
I assume Bill and Kelly are still coming?
 
I could use a red switch for the IMSAI if anyone has a spare.
 
Bill Degnan

#1074 From: "wpileggi" <wpileggi@...>
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 9:57 pm
Subject: IBM PC Collectors and collections
wpileggi
Send Email Send Email
 
Regarding the IBM PC, it was manufactured over a 6 year span. There
were quite a few changes during the production run. Hence, there are a
LOT of them floating about, mostly worth nil, especially "B" models. I
had examples of all of them. The first general production run had 16Kb
(RAM) motherboards; the power supply and rear panels were painted
black; and the 8080 CPU had a bug (shades of the much later Pentium).
THOSE are the coolest and actually valuable PC's. The rest?....

An interesting aside: a fellow I know who worked for IBM in Australia
says the power supplies were always blowing up....the early ones
didn't get the power supply quite right. Bill/KA3AIS

#1075 From: "wpileggi" <wpileggi@...>
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 9:59 pm
Subject: Just what is an Atari 65XL?
wpileggi
Send Email Send Email
 
Just what is an Atari 65XL? A friend pulled one out of garage and told
me to find a home for it.
Bill/KA3AIS

#1076 From: "Evan" <evan947@...>
Date: Tue Aug 2, 2005 10:14 pm
Subject: RE: Just what is an Atari 65XL?
evan947
Send Email Send Email
 
I dialed up Curt Vendel for this one.  He says it's the 65XE, not XL, and that it's actually an 800XL repackaged in grey and white plastic.  He said it was one of several name changes when the Trammiel clan took over.


From: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com [mailto:midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wpileggi
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 6:00 PM
To: midatlanticretro@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [midatlanticretro] Just what is an Atari 65XL?

Just what is an Atari 65XL? A friend pulled one out of garage and told
me to find a home for it.
Bill/KA3AIS




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