--- Nina <murrkis@...> wrote:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> "G"
> <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
> >  in looking at what was there is no longer Any
> relationship.
> > that Died with Realization. and no matter how
> another wishes
> > to try and assume that because one speaks there is
> an identity
> > present that is not always the case. once
> everything settles
> > then all becomes simply empty in nature and
> forever
> > Non-Dual.
>
> Hi, Ganga, you say there is no identity and that one
> becomes empty in
> nature and forever nondual. I am curious, what
> allows or compels a
> nondual citizen to enter into communication, then,
> with dual
> citizens? Or to continue living in the body, with
> all that this
> entails? Is it habit? Is it truly so black and
> white, either/or? More
> directly, why do you still have a material life? Why
> not be done with
> it entirely?
>
> respectfully,
> Nina

I do have answers for these, the answer is she has no
choice to leave or stay and nothing can be done.

Unity, isn't one. Source isn't single. Birth from one
isn't, wont and never will occur. Therefore, to go
beyond the singular is going beyond and beyond and
beyond until the beyond is all there is, as a trap
that concludes only one remains. Such as to ask, where
does source come from? where does the source of source
eminate? Where does the end come in?

If one (which isn't) ends, that is the end of one. Yet
what remains is all, just the same. It's not a belief
that there is something else. In unity one (which
isn't) can define infinite something elses. The rule
is, never the same something twice. No snowflake, no
human, no sun, moon, planet, no ether, no atom,
exactly the same configuration twice, not at any
moment do two exist with precisely the same make-up.
This is unity, as no two exist.

Ganga or Joe Smith cannot go outside of unity, even
though one can go infinitely beyond all beyonds, as
if. Neither are ever pinned down long enough to
escape, even if there was an alternate reality in
which one can say is "?". Since "?" is simply unknown
until it is understood as "?".

In essence Ganga going to the absolute that is, is
perfectly true, but shes not taking a body with her,
nor does she have that as an option, which is why shes
not going anywhere. There isn't a ganga that can be
pinned down in order to take somewhere else. All
gangas memories of suffering are just that, moments
that are pinned down, in some past that is no longer.
Her now is, as is, unpinned, in which the cycle of not
being of suffering is the case for this existence that
cannot be pinned. It is simply the believe that she
isn't suffering, as a moment occured that she pinned
down, as such. Memory allows for such a pinning down,
but look for yourself in this moment and you wont find
a you anywhere, only the memory of the moment past.

The presence of time is precisely the same
construction, A moment that is fluid, stepping through
the prior. A second passes, but passes what? the next
second, since in time the prior is birth to the next,
fluidly. At the speed of light all time stops, you can
test this yourself by focusing on an image until you
reach the current moment, as your mind catches up. An
excersise that has been performed for hundreds of
recorded years.

Defining a future or telling a future is very much a
truth as well. Since at the current moment exisist an
entirety of moments to come, on a mental cycle. Also,
there is a mental truth to communication without
words, movement of matter without a physical
intervention, travel through space without a starting
point and ending point, as time describes, since the
prior is always manifesting the current moment. It is
difficult to pin down and if it was a simple process
it would be the current moments truth, as a
progression simply is a regression equally so.

Peace and Love


__________________________________
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--- Melody <melodyande@...> wrote:
> >Namaste -
>
> >  There is no reason to remain on this line .....
> my function is that
> of Guru and not armchair philosophy endlessly
> debating that
> which cannot be debated ......
>
> >  debating is separation and mental strivings
> rather than the
> Bliss of Sat*Chit* Anand which simply IS when mind
> stills ......
> >why to chase weeds when simply there is a garden of
> delight
> always at hand ?
>
>
>
> I don't know why you do this either, Ganga.

You do know why, Frustration. Giving up the ghost for
the umpteenth time until giving up isn't an option :)

> But rather than  continuing to follow  your pattern
> of:  getting intangled in these 'debates', and then
> announcing either you have no time for
> such stuff - or that you are too blissed
> out to participate in such stuff,

Precisely so, untangled is a great word.

> why not just stop and look at this
> 'involvement' head on?

It could be concluded that she is afraid that she
would be suffering if she were to look again. Much
better to feel one is on top of the game, this gives
one power to remain in control. It's a great teaching,
although she's not a great example of such.

> Why not investigate what compells
> you to keep dancing this same pattern
> over and over again?

Exactly, in investigating such a pattern, one exposes
the pattern that is suffering itself. Better to not do
as such and continue feeling blissful. It's a great
teaching, really. Tie yourself to a believe, lock it
down without a doubt in your mind and whala.

> It would take less time than telling
> someone again that they "don't know
> what they are talking about".  Less time
> than to tell us for the umpteenth time just
> how 'complete' and 'balanced' you are.
>
> Melody

Please believe, she nor you are away from this, that
is, as such, Nor will you ever be away. Yet you can
certainly lock down a belief, any belief to make it so
for you :) It matters not, to you if there is
substance behind the truth, if someone agrees with
your truth as such, you know the know, that is all
that is required.

Peace and Love


__________________________________
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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

--- Jason Fishman <munkiman4u@...> wrote:
>
> --- Melody <melodyande@...> wrote:
> > >Namaste -
> >
> > >  There is no reason to remain on this line .....
>
> > my function is that
> > of Guru and not armchair philosophy endlessly
> > debating that
> > which cannot be debated ......
> >
> > >  debating is separation and mental strivings
> > rather than the
> > Bliss of Sat*Chit* Anand which simply IS when mind
> > stills ......
> > >why to chase weeds when simply there is a garden
> of
> > delight
> > always at hand ?
> >
> >
> >
> > I don't know why you do this either, Ganga.
>
> You do know why, Frustration. Giving up the ghost
> for
> the umpteenth time until giving up isn't an option
> :)
>
> > But rather than  continuing to follow  your
> pattern
> > of:  getting intangled in these 'debates', and
> then
> > announcing either you have no time for
> > such stuff - or that you are too blissed
> > out to participate in such stuff,
>
> Precisely so, untangled is a great word.

***** OOps I meant intangled :) Although, Untagled is
a great word too!

> > why not just stop and look at this
> > 'involvement' head on?
>
> It could be concluded that she is afraid that she
> would be suffering if she were to look again. Much
> better to feel one is on top of the game, this gives
> one power to remain in control. It's a great
> teaching,
> although she's not a great example of such.
>
> > Why not investigate what compells
> > you to keep dancing this same pattern
> > over and over again?
>
> Exactly, in investigating such a pattern, one
> exposes
> the pattern that is suffering itself. Better to not
> do
> as such and continue feeling blissful. It's a great
> teaching, really. Tie yourself to a believe, lock it
> down without a doubt in your mind and whala.
>
> > It would take less time than telling
> > someone again that they "don't know
> > what they are talking about".  Less time
> > than to tell us for the umpteenth time just
> > how 'complete' and 'balanced' you are.
> >
> > Melody
>
> Please believe, she nor you are away from this, that
> is, as such, Nor will you ever be away. Yet you can
> certainly lock down a belief, any belief to make it
> so
> for you :) It matters not, to you if there is
> substance behind the truth, if someone agrees with
> your truth as such, you know the know, that is all
> that is required.
>
> Peace and Love
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
>


__________________________________
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SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

--- Melody <melodyande@...> wrote:
>
>
> >***** OOps I meant intangled :) Although, >Untagled
> is
> >a great word too!
>
>
>
> En-tangled is also a great word.
>
> Funny that you and I are both getting
> tangled-up in the spelling of that word.
>
> :-)
>
> Sorry for the spelling errors, folks.  I keep
> forgetting that my spell-check is not
> automatic when I use the 'reply' function.
>
> It is automatic when I 'create mail', however.
>
> How do others of you spell-check your posts when
> using the reply function?
>
> Melody
>
I don't use it... obviously :)

Peace and Love

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

That sounds just the same as what others like Bruce and Jason, etc.
have said in a different way.



--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G"
<crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina"
> <murrkis@y...> wrote:
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G"
> > <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
> > >  in looking at what was there is no longer Any relationship.
> > > that Died with Realization. and no matter how another
> wishes
> > > to try and assume that because one speaks there is an
> identity
> > > present that is not always the case. once everything settles
> > > then all becomes simply empty in nature and forever
> > > Non-Dual.
> >
> > Hi, Ganga, you say there is no identity and that one becomes
> empty in
> > nature and forever nondual. I am curious, what allows or
> compels a
> > nondual citizen to enter into communication, then, with dual
> > citizens? Or to continue living in the body, with all that this
> > entails? Is it habit? Is it truly so black and white, either/or?
More
> > directly, why do you still have a material life? Why not be done
> with
> > it entirely?
> >
> > respectfully,
> > Nina
>
>
> G:  why not ?  do you think that living within Reality of One
rather
> than a scewed duality means that life is any less precious ?  it
> matters not whether in form or not at this point .....   simply
the
> One is what IS, no matter whether a Sarvikalpa world presents
> itself or a Nirvikalpa contains itself in Primary state .......
it is still
> simply One and Eternally the same......   in Nirvikala it is
simply
> Pure Consciousness that knows nothing except itself which has
> no form nor content nor self identity  .......   in Sarvikalpa the
> disvisionary play is seen and yet it is still that One which now
> has been disturbed into a moving as energy and infinite beauty
> with I AM Consciousness ......    but at core it is still that
same
> ONE .....
>
>  is it an identity  forever separated that creates God ?  in a way
> yes......    for when God alone IS it is simply the one garden of
> Play.......   Seeker and sought only happens in a perceived
> separation .......   Once the Reality is Known it becomes the
> Celebration of Self while in the Sarvikalpa Samadhi with
> distinction......    it is only the concrete identity that is
within maya
> that fears for it's life seeing separation as life and death God
and
> man .......  man against man ........   within Realization there
> remains no Death .....   that spell is broken.......    it is the
concrete
> identity that fights for it's place .....  within Realization all
places
> are simply momentary experiences of the One .......   what comes
> ,comes it is momentary and transient a show and a play with
> actors that where masks but underneath those masks is One
> Source and One Heart and One Being ........    when a Realized
> One meets another realized Being it is a Joy and immediate
> Heart Celebration for they are ONE .......   it cannot be
explained
> in words as there is nothing to strive against for they are
> ONE.......   within maya there is striving and minds that cling to
> experiences with desires and failures and wants for the Me it all
> revolves around that little island of identity .......    in
Realization
> there is simply a Satvik movement that occurs for there is only
> One that knows all parts to be integrally united with a thread of
> life that is Source .......
>
> Why do the stars shine ?  Why do birds sing ?  Why does nature
> continually remain beautiful until man interceeds and destroys it
> ?   because it is what it IS......  the unending Beauty of Source
> seen through distinctions.......  it is mans (maya) illusion that
> sees the transient  as fleeting reality (which are dreams that
> come and go ) and Source as a concept .....   once that spell is
> broken there is nothing that is not Real for it is simply Source
in
> action and within the transient play the only stability is simply
the
> Core Essense which is unchanging .......   the outer appearance
> is the grand show........   the clothing of the moment ......
>
>  it is only the true Bhakti that sees Krishnas Divine Form
> everywhere as ONE and it is also his Self .......   a cell in the
body
> of God seeming to have a separate function .....   yet that cell
> carries the full inherant nature and is ONE........   all in all
it IS the
> body of God ........
>
>   eventually Source once again pulls back  its consciousness
> and the worlds end .......   then simply that Primary
> Consciousness remains until another worlds play is breathed
> out and distinctions arise from the ONE Source - which
> becomes play and motion, energy and phenomena ..........   no
> matter what is seen at the Heart it is and will be forever simply
> Source (primal consciousness)   that enters into matter (slowed
> energy which comes from the light of being)  and creates a
> multitude of worlds with knowledge and transient experience of
> varying degrees while still being simply the ONE.........
>
>
> shanti om

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Goode
<goode@d...> wrote:

Thanks Greg,
Bobby

> Hey Bobby,
>
> I'm not sure which work Sw. Dyananda was referring to.  In addition
to being considered the author of the Vedas, Vyasa is also credited
as the author of the Mahabharata, from which the Bhagavad Gita was
excerpted.  They are both composed in slokas or verses that are chant-
able, memorable, and even hummable!  There are even traditionally
authorized melodies for the different works.
>
> The BG does say very deeply insightful things about all of advaita
vedanta, but requires a lot of unpacking.  This unpacking,
explication, is what the teacher in the orthodox advaita tradition is
there for.  They discuss every aspect of the teaching, but only as
glosses on slokas in the text.  This is in stark contrast to the neo-
advaita satsang movment, in which texts and written works are often
frowned upon as overly stressing the intellect and serving as a
substitute for what they call "direct experience."
>
> Among the orthodox advaitic unpackers of the Bhagavad Gita text
whose teachings are easy to find in the US, Swami Dyananda and Swami
Chimayananda are some of the best.
>
> --Greg
>
>
> On 6/28/03 02:04 pm  "texasbg2000" (Bigbobgraham@a...) wrote:
> <html><body>
>
>
> <tt>
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Gregory Goode
<BR>
> <goode@d...> wrote:<BR>
> > <html><body><BR>
> > Hi Bobby,<BR>
> > <BR>
> > I have a modest collection of Swami Dyananda's written and
recorded <BR>
> works.  And I read this interview when it was first published.  <BR>
> Nowhere in this interview or in any of Swami Dyananda's teachings
<BR>
> that I'm familiar with does he talk about the Yoga Sutra.  Or <BR>
> Patanjali, as I can recall.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > The Vyasa he refers to in this interview is the figure often <BR>
> called "Veda Vyasa," the one to whom the original Vedas have been
<BR>
> attributed.  Rgveda, Yajurveda, Atharvaveda, and Samaveda. 
Vedantic <BR>
> study treats of these to some extent, but mostly the Upanishads,
the <BR>
> Bhagavad Gita, and the Brahma Sutra.  The work that Swami Dyananda
<BR>
> mentioned teaching every morning is the Mandukya Upanishad, often
<BR>
> thought to be the most sophisticated presentation of advaita among
<BR>
> the Upanishads, and the only one that can make sense without
relying <BR>
> on religious faith.  It's a very great book, in fact I had it on my
<BR>
> altar years ago when I was looking for a guru and couldn't find
one!  <BR>
> All the other Upanishads use the notion of a creator or deity to
some <BR>
> extent.  <BR>
> > <BR>
> > Hari OM!<BR>
> > <BR>
> > --Greg<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Thanks Greg.  You are a valuable resource.  Do you happen to know
<BR>
> what is the book of sutra which entirely analyzes Advaita Vedanta
by <BR>
> Veda Vyasa? He referred to it after he referred to the Mandukya <BR>
> Upanishad.<BR>
> <BR>
> Love<BR>
> Bobby G.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > On 6/28/03 12:28 pm  "texasbg2000" (Bigbobgraham@a...) wrote:<BR>
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "steve"
<BR><BR>
> > <spirit5562000@y...> wrote:<BR><BR>
> > What caught my eye was the following paragraph about what I take
is <BR>
> <BR><BR>
> > the "Yoga Sutra"-<BR><BR>
> > <BR><BR>
> > !~~~~AC: Before Shankara there were no written commentaries?
<BR><BR>
> > <BR><BR>
> > SD: There were some. In fact, what I'm teaching every morning now
<BR>
> is <BR><BR>
> > a commentary on one of the Upanishads, by Shankara's own
teacher's <BR>
> <BR><BR>
> > teacher, Gaudapada. There are a few others also, Vyasa's sutras.
<BR>
> <BR><BR>
> > He is apparently giving the authorship of "Yoga Sutra" usually
<BR>
> given <BR><BR>
> > to Patanjali to the sage Vyasa.  Feuerstein in his commentary on
<BR>
> <BR><BR>
> > Patanjali frreely uses Vyasa as a translator of 'Yoga Sutra' and
<BR>
> even <BR><BR>
> > mentions that some attribute the works to Vyasa.<BR><BR>
> > <BR><BR>
> > Of most interest to me is the idea from a foremost authority on
<BR><BR>
> > Advaita that the 'Yoga Sutra' analyzes the whole of Advaita <BR>
> Vedanta.<BR><BR>
> > <BR>
> > </body></html><BR>
> <BR>
> </tt>
>
> <br>
>
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--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G"
<crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
>
> Namaste -
>
>   There is no reason to remain on this line .....  my function is
that
> of Guru and not armchair philosophy endlessly debating that
> which cannot be debated ......
>
>   debating is separation and mental strivings rather than the
> Bliss of Sat*Chit* Anand which simply IS when mind stills ......
> why to chase weeds when simply there is a garden of delight
> always at hand ?
>
>   any wishing may email me directly or may find me at Guru
> Satsang or Kundalini Online or God Realized ......   from this
> month will be quite busy working with those coming for kundalini
> help and so have no time to invest in these debates which serve
> no purpose .......    it is ego that wishes debate after debate to
> secure itself and its understanding .....  how can one debate
> Reality it simply IS.......   it doesn't need to be
discussed ........
>
>  may you find that which you seek .....  may what you find be
> Liberation ........
>
> shanti om
>
>  crystalkundalini@h...

Actually G. the debates serve a good purpose.  Your philosophy and
service are well outlined and any one reading your debates have a
good idea if you can help them.  The way to reach you is clear as is
your willingness to help.
Nothing is lost.
Bobby G.

> > > G:   indeed any seen - heard - or energy is still within the
> realm of
> > > manifest although varying degrees of subtle.......   but they
> while
> > > part of the Whole are still in a divisionary measure......   one
> must
> > > go beyond them and surrender to the Source from which they
> > > come ......   the light that is beyond all lights.......   the
> unknowing
> > > which is beyond all knowledge ....   That which is beyond all
> > > truths......
> > >
> > > shanti om
> >
> >
> > go behind the energy
> >
> >  oh!
> >
> > words! ya di ya da bla bla
> >
> > not possible!!!
> >
> > when you die
>
>
> G:   This is What Realization is the Death before death.....
>
>         it IS possible ......   the fact that you don't know that show that
> you are still a seeker and not resting within the Realization that
> you claim........


Die daily is the name of game in sanmat meditation, the reason YOU don't know
this is beause YOU DON'T KNOW!!


if you are telling me that you
  are a guru and I am seeker than I say
go and fly a kyte you: are a megalomaniac clown

give up this sick guru-game we all have
  your number down [exept Tony]

  LOL

  Karta

> "Melody" <melodyande@c...> wrote:
>
>
> >***** OOps I meant intangled :) Although, >Untagled is
> >a great word too!
>
>
>
> En-tangled is also a great word.
>
> Funny that you and I are both getting
> tangled-up in the spelling of that word.
>
> :-)
>
> Sorry for the spelling errors, folks.  I keep
> forgetting that my spell-check is not
> automatic when I use the 'reply' function.
>
> It is automatic when I 'create mail', however.
>
> How do others of you spell-check your posts when
> using the reply function?
>
> Melody

My email application Eudora automatically spell-checks.

If I post to the web interface, I use the 'check spelling
as you type' feature of Safari, the new Apple/Mac web
browser. Safari runs only on Mac OS X (Open-source UNIX).

The problem with all spell checkers, is that if a word is
mistyped (say, if I type 'to' instead of 'too'), the spell
checker sees it spelled correctly, even though it is not the
word I meant to use.

This syndrome (of the use of the wrong word, albeit
spelled correctly) is bemoaned by teachers of English,
who have learned to grade papers inclusive of actual
effort (use of computer vs hand or typewriter effort).

It also afflicts copy editors of print publications, whose
job includes not only checking for spelling, but also for
grammar and syntax. In other words, a 'couple' is not
to people, it is two people.

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,58058,00.html


==GP==

I'm quite suprised that microsoft has a grammer
checker and has had one for sometime, yet major
publishing apps like Quark, Pagemaker and Indesign
don't have this feature integrated. Quark has a
plug-in, Pagemaker and Indesign have story editors,
but no type as you go checkers built in.

Mas OSX is the bomb, hehe, for the moment. I
especially like the sliding and fading dialogs, much
cuter/realistic then zoom rectangles. Wonder what the
G5 will bring.

Peace and Love

--- Gene Poole <gene_poole@...> wrote:
> > "Melody" <melodyande@c...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >***** OOps I meant intangled :) Although,
> >Untagled is
> > >a great word too!
> >
> >
> >
> > En-tangled is also a great word.
> >
> > Funny that you and I are both getting
> > tangled-up in the spelling of that word.
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Sorry for the spelling errors, folks.  I keep
> > forgetting that my spell-check is not
> > automatic when I use the 'reply' function.
> >
> > It is automatic when I 'create mail', however.
> >
> > How do others of you spell-check your posts when
> > using the reply function?
> >
> > Melody
>
> My email application Eudora automatically
> spell-checks.
>
> If I post to the web interface, I use the 'check
> spelling
> as you type' feature of Safari, the new Apple/Mac
> web
> browser. Safari runs only on Mac OS X (Open-source
> UNIX).
>
> The problem with all spell checkers, is that if a
> word is
> mistyped (say, if I type 'to' instead of 'too'), the
> spell
> checker sees it spelled correctly, even though it is
> not the
> word I meant to use.
>
> This syndrome (of the use of the wrong word, albeit
> spelled correctly) is bemoaned by teachers of
> English,
> who have learned to grade papers inclusive of actual
> effort (use of computer vs hand or typewriter
> effort).
>
> It also afflicts copy editors of print publications,
> whose
> job includes not only checking for spelling, but
> also for
> grammar and syntax. In other words, a 'couple' is
> not
> to people, it is two people.
>
>
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,58058,00.html
>
>
> ==GP==
>
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
http://sbc.yahoo.com

G:   indeed any seen - heard - or energy is still within the
realm of manifest although varying degrees of subtle.......   but
they  while part of the Whole are still in a divisionary
measure......   one  must  go beyond them and surrender to the Source
from which they  come ......   the light that is beyond all
lights.......   the  unknowing which is beyond all knowledge ....
That which is beyond all  truths......
go behind the energy
karta:oh!words! ya di ya da bla bla not possible!!!when you die
G:   This is What Realization is the Death before death.....
devi: gangak is writing the truth
gangak:it IS possible ......   the fact that you don't know that show
that you are still a seeker and not resting within the Realization
that you claim........
devi: she's right again, liberation + body = jivan-mukta
karta:Die daily is the name of game in sanmat meditation, the reason
YOU don't know this is beause YOU DON'T KNOW!!
devi: karta, gangak is realized, i can't believe you still are
challenging her,
karta:if you are telling me that you are a guru and I am seeker than
I say go and fly a kyte you: are a megalomaniac clown
devi: megalomanics aren't *realized*
karta; give up this sick guru-game we all have
>  your number down [exept Tony]
devi: add me to the list of people who think that gangak is realized,
and karta, greg, bruce bob and jody all agree too. you and tony are
in the minority
seriously, karta, if you live around the block from that swamiji, why
don't you go see him...? talk to him about gangak, maybe he'll help
remove this big problem your having with her...your *name calling* is
probably extrememly annoying to most everyone in all the clubs around
here by the way...(example of name calling...sick...megalomanic clown)
again, she's realized, and she's very open about it, if you were
smart you might take advantage of it...

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi <no_reply@y...>
wrote:
> G:   indeed any seen - heard - or energy is still within the
> realm of manifest although varying degrees of subtle.......   but
> they  while part of the Whole are still in a divisionary
> measure......   one  must  go beyond them and surrender to the Source
> from which they  come ......   the light that is beyond all
> lights.......   the  unknowing which is beyond all knowledge ....
> That which is beyond all  truths......
> go behind the energy
> karta:oh!words! ya di ya da bla bla not possible!!!when you die
> G:   This is What Realization is the Death before death.....
> devi: gangak is writing the truth
> gangak:it IS possible ......   the fact that you don't know that show
> that you are still a seeker and not resting within the Realization
> that you claim........
> devi: she's right again, liberation + body = jivan-mukta
> karta:Die daily is the name of game in sanmat meditation, the reason
> YOU don't know this is beause YOU DON'T KNOW!!
> devi: karta, gangak is realized, i can't believe you still are
> challenging her,
> karta:if you are telling me that you are a guru and I am seeker than
> I say go and fly a kyte you: are a megalomaniac clown
> devi: megalomanics aren't *realized*
> karta; give up this sick guru-game we all have
> >  your number down [exept Tony]
> devi: add me to the list of people who think that gangak is realized,
> and karta, greg, bruce bob and jody all agree too. you and tony are
> in the minority
> seriously, karta, if you live around the block from that swamiji, why
> don't you go see him...? talk to him about gangak, maybe he'll help
> remove this big problem your having with her...your *name calling* is
> probably extrememly annoying to most everyone in all the clubs around
> here by the way...(example of name calling...sick...megalomanic clown)
> again, she's realized, and she's very open about it, if you were
> smart you might take advantage of it...



and you are the other clown of 'enlightenment' mania

   Karta

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "satkartar7"
<mi_nok@y...> wrote:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > G:   indeed any seen - heard - or energy is still within the
> > realm of manifest although varying degrees of subtle.......   but
> > they  while part of the Whole are still in a divisionary
> > measure......   one  must  go beyond them and surrender to the
Source
> > from which they  come ......   the light that is beyond all
> > lights.......   the  unknowing which is beyond all
knowledge ....
> > That which is beyond all  truths......
> > go behind the energy
> > karta:oh!words! ya di ya da bla bla not possible!!!when you die
> > G:   This is What Realization is the Death before death.....
> > devi: gangak is writing the truth
> > gangak:it IS possible ......   the fact that you don't know that
show
> > that you are still a seeker and not resting within the
Realization
> > that you claim........
> > devi: she's right again, liberation + body = jivan-mukta
> > karta:Die daily is the name of game in sanmat meditation, the
reason
> > YOU don't know this is beause YOU DON'T KNOW!!
> > devi: karta, gangak is realized, i can't believe you still are
> > challenging her,
> > karta:if you are telling me that you are a guru and I am seeker
than
> > I say go and fly a kyte you: are a megalomaniac clown
> > devi: megalomanics aren't *realized*
> > karta; give up this sick guru-game we all have
> > >  your number down [exept Tony]
> > devi: add me to the list of people who think that gangak is
realized,
> > and karta, greg, bruce bob and jody all agree too. you and tony
are
> > in the minority
> > seriously, karta, if you live around the block from that swamiji,
why
> > don't you go see him...? talk to him about gangak, maybe he'll
help
> > remove this big problem your having with her...your *name
calling* is
> > probably extrememly annoying to most everyone in all the clubs
around
> > here by the way...(example of name calling...sick...megalomanic
clown)
> > again, she's realized, and she's very open about it, if you were
> > smart you might take advantage of it...
>
>
>
karta: and you are the other clown of 'enlightenment' mania
devi: i'm not reading you anymore, i don't think your name calling is
funny
>
>

> > > G:   indeed any seen - heard - or energy is still within the
> > > realm of manifest although varying degrees of subtle.......   but
> > > they  while part of the Whole are still in a divisionary
> > > measure......   one  must  go beyond them and surrender to the
> Source
> > > from which they  come ......   the light that is beyond all
> > > lights.......   the  unknowing which is beyond all
> knowledge ....
> > > That which is beyond all  truths......
> > > go behind the energy
> > > karta:oh!words! ya di ya da bla bla not possible!!!when you die
> > > G:   This is What Realization is the Death before death.....
> > > devi: gangak is writing the truth
> > > gangak:it IS possible ......   the fact that you don't know that
> show
> > > that you are still a seeker and not resting within the
> Realization
> > > that you claim........
> > > devi: she's right again, liberation + body = jivan-mukta
> > > karta:Die daily is the name of game in sanmat meditation, the
> reason
> > > YOU don't know this is beause YOU DON'T KNOW!!
> > > devi: karta, gangak is realized, i can't believe you still are
> > > challenging her,
> > > karta:if you are telling me that you are a guru and I am seeker
> than
> > > I say go and fly a kyte you: are a megalomaniac clown
> > > devi: megalomanics aren't *realized*
> > > karta; give up this sick guru-game we all have
> > > >  your number down [exept Tony]
> > > devi: add me to the list of people who think that gangak is
> realized,
> > > and karta, greg, bruce bob and jody all agree too. you and tony
> are
> > > in the minority
> > > seriously, karta, if you live around the block from that swamiji,
> why
> > > don't you go see him...? talk to him about gangak, maybe he'll
> help
> > > remove this big problem your having with her...your *name
> calling* is
> > > probably extrememly annoying to most everyone in all the clubs
> around
> > > here by the way...(example of name calling...sick...megalomanic
> clown)
> > > again, she's realized, and she's very open about it, if you were
> > > smart you might take advantage of it...
> >
> >
> >
> karta: and you are the other clown of 'enlightenment' mania
> devi: i'm not reading you anymore, i don't think your name calling is
> funny


sorry Devi, when pressured I tell the
  truth as I see it. I have no idea why
  did Ganga tried to challenged me
at what she failed misarably with her misundertandings and 'lack' and why you
always try to spank me and why did
  you positioned yourself in disagreement
  with me

REALITY CAN NOT BE MANIPULATED!! Devi

Ganga with her aura-pic and upperhand
stance sucks and from here you are
pathetic with your C&P enlightenment

I did not ask to be challenged but, when
  I am; I tell what is on my mind

   Karta

ps: while you are now into asskissing
Ganga why not ask her to be a member of
  her club? there you can do it: that is
  all what is there to be done and don't forget to ask for the Swami's cerificate

  <grin>

   LOL

<http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~gallaher/k_speaks/myheartbroke.au>

"... if you are telling me that you
are a guru and I am seeker than I say
go and fly a kyte you: are a megalomaniac clown

give up this sick guru-game we all have
your number down [exept Tony]

LOL

Karta ..."


*****************************

Swami has invited you to come
by to meet him, Karta - since
you live so close to him. It may
be that, "in person", he could
help you to clear up this confusion
you have with regards to Ganga's
realization?
... And your own.

He is a "Realized Master", an
authentic Guru, and he is also
a psychologist with a practice
in Beverly Hills.

Maybe he could authenticate you
as a being "Realized", or perhaps
provide you with the counseling
and the medication you may need.

Looking forward to hearing about
your encounter with Swami.

Sincerely,
Tony

PS By the way, there are many who have
recognized Ganga's realization as being
legitimate,
... And Swami is only one of them.

Swami's own authentication comes
from a well recognized linage, so it
is also considered to be a verifiable.

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, asimpjoy <no_reply@y...>
wrote:
> "... if you are telling me that you
> are a guru and I am seeker than I say
> go and fly a kyte you: are a megalomaniac clown
>
> give up this sick guru-game we all have
> your number down [exept Tony]
>
> LOL
>
> Karta ..."
>
>
> *****************************
>
> Swami has invited you to come
> by to meet him, Karta - since
> you live so close to him. It may
> be that, "in person", he could
> help you to clear up this confusion
> you have with regards to Ganga's
> realization?
> ... And your own.
>
> He is a "Realized Master", an
> authentic Guru, and he is also
> a psychologist with a practice
> in Beverly Hills.
>
> Maybe he could authenticate you
> as a being "Realized", or perhaps
> provide you with the counseling
> and the medication you may need.
>
> Looking forward to hearing about
> your encounter with Swami.
>
> Sincerely,
> Tony
>
> PS By the way, there are many who have
> recognized Ganga's realization as being
> legitimate,
> ... And Swami is only one of them.
>
> Swami's own authentication comes
> from a well recognized linage, so it
> is also considered to be a verifiable.


I am not interested Tony

oh my god!!

   Karta

On Sun, 29 Jun 2003 00:22:21 -0000 "mlcanow" <mlcanow@...> writes:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G"
> <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
> >
> > > There is also "ego" that
> > > simply comes and goes --
> > > nothing "is trapped" unless
> > > the iteration is unobserved
> > > as such!
> >
> >
> > G: if there is coming and going then it isn't sahaja and it isn't
>
> > realization.....
>
> This is something i needed to hear once again. If i take this for
> true, then i feel greatly liberated for i am not realized. I am
> quite convinced that not only a Nirvikalpa samadhi is needed to
> realize (it is necessary, but not all). A stabilization with
> absolute no identification is something which i do not have

Nobody does, mi corazon,
not even the most Famous
of Famous Dead Guys[tm]
-- that's very much my
point here!        :-)

Someone so "stabilized"
would be physically
vegetative and require
constant bodily
maintenance from helpers.
Such a "stable" dweller
in non-identity could
certainly not hold forth
like all the Famous Dead
Guys[tm] obviously did --
s/he would not even
answer when called by
name!

> (sahaja). I am speaking for myself once and again. I was always
> wondering why my Guru always said to me: MARIA COMES AND
> GOES...LET
> HER GO. And my question has always been (although i haven't had the
>
> opportunity of asking him lately) how do i do this? And i
> am coming
> to observe that there is nothing that i can do, but just a
> maturity that comes along by grace, as Nirvikalpa came.

Exactly right -- one can
do exactly nothing to
summon or evoke grace.
There literally is no "how"
and Maria is not the doer!
To lead a grace-full life
is very much a matter of
noticing this very fact,
moment by moment, directly
and viscerally rather than
as a mere
logical/intellectual
surmise!
>
> Bruce, what do you say about this?
>
I bow to your relentless
honesty -- and to your
teacher's wisdom.  Jai
Guruji!

Much love -- Bruce

__________________________________________________
http://come.to/realization
http://www.atman.net/realization
http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm
http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
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Has anyone heard of /or have any information on Neo-Tech?By Frank R. Wallac=
e??

I  was talking with someone and they
claimed that "the Neo-Tech Manuscript for
Zonpower is the Entelechy of prosperity
  and happiness"... furthermore she stated that"it captures the greatest mon=
ey,power,romantic love discovery since
  the Industrial Revolution, and, can occur easily after reading and integra=
ting the entire Neo-Tech manuscript.

And once you pull that mighty integration
  of all 114 Neo-Tech Advantages,you
will gain unbeatable power over every professional mystic and neocheater wh=
o touches your life. And with that power
  you can gain unlimited prosperity. happiness,and romantic love, forever.

But those not capturing Neo-Tech will
grow increasingly unaware, impotent, uncompetitive, incompetent...They will=

  be left behind, defenseless in a world
  of professional mystics and neocheaters
increasingly succumbing to the always
fatal disease of mysticism."

Any information on this would be greatly appreciated as I did not know what=
  the
  heck she was talking about!

http://www.neo-tech.com/zonpower/

from NDS by Humanitate

Jnana Yoga, (sorry i  lost the cover with th authors name and title)

When the sphere of Jnana Yoga is considered, it must be appreciated
that at this stage in man's evolution the fruits gained long ago
through Hatha Yoga are an integral part of his nature and only very
modified practices are needed to maintain a body fit for further
development. ON the same principle, not much atte3ntion needs to be
paid to Raja Yoga practices as such, at this stage the effort is to
be made to control the mind itself consciously: the Samadhis gained
on this level are varied and multiple and we have classified them in
toto as Manomaya Samadhi, or concerning consciously the mental plane.
Whatever be the attainment from the Jnani point of view and whatever
be the term used, we are classifying the Samadhis of these schools
all as Manomaya Samadhi. All types and grades of Samadhi starting
with the ordinary mental plane-then the higher mental plane- then the
intellectual and then the intuitional are included in this
classification. It is sometimes claimed that Nirvikalpa Samadhi tops
all as the goal to be achieved.
Carried to its culmination in Nirvikalpa Samadhi, the body functions
stop and the body is inert with no consciousness of the I at all.
Others may say that either Sthitha Samadhi or Sahaj Samadhi, is a
higher goal.
In the former type of Samadhi, the concentration stabilizes to such
an extent that the focus and realization of I-ness or the nature of
the soul or of the Supreme Being remains most predominate and the
mind becomes oblivious to worldly responsibilities. Sahaj Samadhi, as
we have styled it, is a mixed state wherein man after experiencing
the value of Nirvikalpa Samadhi, can constantly and simultaneously
play in this world and the other more subtle worlds also.
How these are to be achieved may also lead to a lengthy discussion,
at least from the philosophical and psychological point of view,
there are many explanations and commentaries on the grades or
hierarchies of Samadhis in the Jnana fields starting with the mental
plane and onwards to the intuitional plane. But here we will on our
part only summarize in the basis of Sri Ramakrishna's utterings.
The soul in its grossest form is full of desires when it acts in the
mental sphere; mind and soul are mixed and we can say that mind is
impure soul" when mind mixes with desires it loses its luster and
purity. The more the mind becomes pure, the more it expresses as soul
in its purity or unmixed state. On this basis, the various schools of
thought classify the mental states as mental, intellectual;
intuitional, etc.  In the highest state, mind is nothing but pure
soul itself.
We have discussed the role of Vaisnabs and the different moods or
Bhavas that are experienced through their devotional practices. To
achieve these moods, the devotee may establish a relationship to his
or her Ishta, leading to the realization or experience of the
Absolute or the Supreme Being. Ishta means a Concrete Divine Form
carved out of the absolute for the convenience of the devotee.
The Ishta is a form of Divinity that can represent either one or many
qualities of Divinity. The devotee selects the Ishta that most nearly
satisfies the highest aspiration of his nature. Through devotion to
the Ishta he extracts what he wants out of the Supreme Being. Then as
he develops more mature moods of love towards his Ishta, he
eventually reaches the same experience of the Absolute that is the
goal of the Jnani, but when he reaches the highest maturity of his
practice, he not only experiences God as Absolute, about Whom nothing
can be said, but he also can fall back, whenever he wants, to taste
the syrup in his love for his Ishta. In this way, all of the facets
of his nature comes into play, his emotional quality in love for the
Ishta, his intellectual quality in realizing the greatest Reality
that God is One Indivisible, together with the volitional aspect in
his play with and in Divinity.
When the Bhakta-through his devotional practices – transcends the
orthodox view of all the possible relationships with God, starting
from the Shanta mood (calm-peaceful mood that comes from the first
realization that God takes care of the devotee), to the Dasya
(servant) relationship, to Batshya (filial) to Sakhya (friendship),
to Madhur (love of beloved to beloved) there comes a merging of all
of these love values into one value.
To describe this value or relationship with Divinity we must turn to
tantra. They say when all of these moods are converged into one value
and are expressed as one mood, which merges as a combination of a
son's or daughters love of mother, with a tinge of the love of
beloved-to-beloved, the picture is complete. All of the variations of
moods which come from the practices of the various relationships with
Divinity as Person which mature into Samadhi we are classifying as
Bhava Samadhi.
Sahaj Samadhi (as described above) when flavored with the realization
that the forms in the world are all the forms of the Ishta is the
highest goal: when this state reaches its peak a Samadhi like
Nirvikalpa Samadhi coming n this wake would be a pause between the
Vijnanamayakosha and the Anandamaya kosha.

> > >
> > > > There is also "ego" that
> > > > simply comes and goes --
> > > > nothing "is trapped" unless
> > > > the iteration is unobserved
> > > > as such!
> > >
> > >
> > > G: if there is coming and going then it isn't sahaja and it
isn't
> >
> > > realization.....
> >
> > This is something i needed to hear once again. If i take this for
> > true, then i feel greatly liberated for i am not realized. I am
> > quite convinced that not only a Nirvikalpa samadhi is needed to
> > realize (it is necessary, but not all). A stabilization with
> > absolute no identification is something which i do not have
>
> Nobody does, mi corazon,
> not even the most Famous
> of Famous Dead Guys[tm]
> -- that's very much my
> point here!        :-)
>
> Someone so "stabilized"
> would be physically
> vegetative and require
> constant bodily
> maintenance from helpers.
> Such a "stable" dweller
> in non-identity could
> certainly not hold forth
> like all the Famous Dead
> Guys[tm] obviously did --
> s/he would not even
> answer when called by
> name!
>
> > (sahaja). I am speaking for myself once and again. I was always
> > wondering why my Guru always said to me: MARIA COMES AND
> > GOES...LET
> > HER GO. And my question has always been (although i haven't had
the
> >
> > opportunity of asking him lately) how do i do this? And i
> > am coming
> > to observe that there is nothing that i can do, but just a
> > maturity that comes along by grace, as Nirvikalpa came.
>
> Exactly right -- one can
> do exactly nothing to
> summon or evoke grace.
> There literally is no "how"
> and Maria is not the doer!
> To lead a grace-full life
> is very much a matter of
> noticing this very fact,
> moment by moment, directly
> and viscerally rather than
> as a mere
> logical/intellectual
> surmise!
> >
> > Bruce, what do you say about this?
> >
> I bow to your relentless
> honesty -- and to your
> teacher's wisdom.  Jai
> Guruji!
>
> Much love -- Bruce
>
> __________________________________________________
> http://come.to/realization
> http://www.atman.net/realization
> http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm
> http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
> Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
> Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

> Jnana Yoga, (sorry i  lost the cover with th authors name and title)
>
> When the sphere of Jnana Yoga is considered, it must be appreciated
> that at this stage in man's evolution the fruits gained long ago
> through Hatha Yoga are an integral part of his nature and only very
> modified practices are needed to maintain a body fit for further
> development. ON the same principle, not much atte3ntion needs to be
> paid to Raja Yoga practices as such, at this stage the effort is to
> be made to control the mind itself consciously: the Samadhis gained
> on this level are varied and multiple and we have classified them in
> toto as Manomaya Samadhi, or concerning consciously the mental plane.
> Whatever be the attainment from the Jnani point of view and whatever
> be the term used, we are classifying the Samadhis of these schools
> all as Manomaya Samadhi. All types and grades of Samadhi starting
> with the ordinary mental plane-then the higher mental plane- then the
> intellectual and then the intuitional are included in this
> classification. It is sometimes claimed that Nirvikalpa Samadhi tops
> all as the goal to be achieved.
> Carried to its culmination in Nirvikalpa Samadhi, the body functions
> stop and the body is inert with no consciousness of the I at all.
> Others may say that either Sthitha Samadhi or Sahaj Samadhi, is a
> higher goal.
> In the former type of Samadhi, the concentration stabilizes to such
> an extent that the focus and realization of I-ness or the nature of
> the soul or of the Supreme Being remains most predominate and the
> mind becomes oblivious to worldly responsibilities. Sahaj Samadhi, as
> we have styled it, is a mixed state wherein man after experiencing
> the value of Nirvikalpa Samadhi, can constantly and simultaneously
> play in this world and the other more subtle worlds also.
> How these are to be achieved may also lead to a lengthy discussion,
> at least from the philosophical and psychological point of view,
> there are many explanations and commentaries on the grades or
> hierarchies of Samadhis in the Jnana fields starting with the mental
> plane and onwards to the intuitional plane. But here we will on our
> part only summarize in the basis of Sri Ramakrishna's utterings.
> The soul in its grossest form is full of desires when it acts in the
> mental sphere; mind and soul are mixed and we can say that mind is
> impure soul" when mind mixes with desires it loses its luster and
> purity. The more the mind becomes pure, the more it expresses as soul
> in its purity or unmixed state. On this basis, the various schools of
> thought classify the mental states as mental, intellectual;
> intuitional, etc.  In the highest state, mind is nothing but pure
> soul itself.
> We have discussed the role of Vaisnabs and the different moods or
> Bhavas that are experienced through their devotional practices. To
> achieve these moods, the devotee may establish a relationship to his
> or her Ishta, leading to the realization or experience of the
> Absolute or the Supreme Being. Ishta means a Concrete Divine Form
> carved out of the absolute for the convenience of the devotee.
> The Ishta is a form of Divinity that can represent either one or many
> qualities of Divinity. The devotee selects the Ishta that most nearly
> satisfies the highest aspiration of his nature. Through devotion to
> the Ishta he extracts what he wants out of the Supreme Being. Then as
> he develops more mature moods of love towards his Ishta, he
> eventually reaches the same experience of the Absolute that is the
> goal of the Jnani, but when he reaches the highest maturity of his
> practice, he not only experiences God as Absolute, about Whom nothing
> can be said, but he also can fall back, whenever he wants, to taste
> the syrup in his love for his Ishta. In this way, all of the facets
> of his nature comes into play, his emotional quality in love for the
> Ishta, his intellectual quality in realizing the greatest Reality
> that God is One Indivisible, together with the volitional aspect in
> his play with and in Divinity.
> When the Bhakta-through his devotional practices – transcends the
> orthodox view of all the possible relationships with God, starting
> from the Shanta mood (calm-peaceful mood that comes from the first
> realization that God takes care of the devotee), to the Dasya
> (servant) relationship, to Batshya (filial) to Sakhya (friendship),
> to Madhur (love of beloved to beloved) there comes a merging of all
> of these love values into one value.
> To describe this value or relationship with Divinity we must turn to
> tantra. They say when all of these moods are converged into one value
> and are expressed as one mood, which merges as a combination of a
> son's or daughters love of mother, with a tinge of the love of
> beloved-to-beloved, the picture is complete. All of the variations of
> moods which come from the practices of the various relationships with
> Divinity as Person which mature into Samadhi we are classifying as
> Bhava Samadhi.
> Sahaj Samadhi (as described above) when flavored with the realization
> that the forms in the world are all the forms of the Ishta is the
> highest goal: when this state reaches its peak a Samadhi like
> Nirvikalpa Samadhi coming n this wake would be a pause between the
> Vijnanamayakosha and the Anandamaya kosha.
>
> > > >
> > > > > There is also "ego" that
> > > > > simply comes and goes --
> > > > > nothing "is trapped" unless
> > > > > the iteration is unobserved
> > > > > as such!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > G: if there is coming and going then it isn't sahaja and it
> isn't
> > >
> > > > realization.....
> > >
> > > This is something i needed to hear once again. If i take this for
> > > true, then i feel greatly liberated for i am not realized. I am
> > > quite convinced that not only a Nirvikalpa samadhi is needed to
> > > realize (it is necessary, but not all). A stabilization with
> > > absolute no identification is something which i do not have
> >
> > Nobody does, mi corazon,
> > not even the most Famous
> > of Famous Dead Guys[tm]
> > -- that's very much my
> > point here!        :-)
> >
> > Someone so "stabilized"
> > would be physically
> > vegetative and require
> > constant bodily
> > maintenance from helpers.
> > Such a "stable" dweller
> > in non-identity could
> > certainly not hold forth
> > like all the Famous Dead
> > Guys[tm] obviously did --
> > s/he would not even
> > answer when called by
> > name!
> >
> > > (sahaja). I am speaking for myself once and again. I was always
> > > wondering why my Guru always said to me: MARIA COMES AND
> > > GOES...LET
> > > HER GO. And my question has always been (although i haven't had
> the
> > >
> > > opportunity of asking him lately) how do i do this? And i
> > > am coming
> > > to observe that there is nothing that i can do, but just a
> > > maturity that comes along by grace, as Nirvikalpa came.
> >
> > Exactly right -- one can
> > do exactly nothing to
> > summon or evoke grace.
> > There literally is no "how"
> > and Maria is not the doer!


is there a point of Dasya here, Bruce?
[I never heard this term before]


  but with this 'trealization' it
  feels like the Grace is permanent,
  doesn't it?


    Karta

> > To lead a grace-full life
> > is very much a matter of
> > noticing this very fact,
> > moment by moment, directly
> > and viscerally rather than
> > as a mere
> > logical/intellectual
> > surmise!
> > >
> > > Bruce, what do you say about this?
> > >
> > I bow to your relentless
> > honesty -- and to your
> > teacher's wisdom.  Jai
> > Guruji!
> >
> > Much love -- Bruce
> >
> > > > http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm

> When the sphere of Jnana Yoga is considered, it must be appreciated
> that at this stage in man's evolution the fruits gained long ago
> through Hatha Yoga are an integral part of his nature and only very
> modified practices are needed to maintain a body fit for further
> development. ON the same principle, not much atte3ntion needs to be
> paid to Raja Yoga practices as such, at this stage the effort is to
> be made to control the mind itself consciously: the Samadhis gained
> on this level are varied and multiple and we have classified them
in
> toto as Manomaya Samadhi, or concerning consciously the mental
plane.
> Whatever be the attainment from the Jnani point of view and
whatever
> be the term used, we are classifying the Samadhis of these schools
> all as Manomaya Samadhi. All types and grades of Samadhi starting
> with the ordinary mental plane-then the higher mental plane- then
the
> intellectual and then the intuitional are included in this
> classification. It is sometimes claimed that Nirvikalpa Samadhi
tops
> all as the goal to be achieved.

For some time, I assisted another teacher in her classes. She had
decided that in her teaching, she was better suited to teaching
philosophy than asana. So, in her yoga classes, she would put people
in asanas, but spend most of the time talking about philosophy. My
job was to go around and provide adjustments (and teach asana) as the
other teacher led the sequence.

Numerous times, as I looked out across a sea of 35 to 75 people, many
of them struggling to breathe or with easily correctable basic
alignment snafoos, the other teacher plunged on through elaborate
discussions of koshas, states of mind, etc., leaving students hanging
precariously in their joints or falling out of the asana, further
distracting students' presence in the moment. And that was just
during the class - it says nothing of what these students took with
them from the class.

There is a real sweetness available in working with what is given, no
matter how humble-seeming, like how to find ease in the body right
now, rather than striving for something that isn't present, like
comprehension of sanskrit words and foreign spiritual concepts while
literally standing on one's head. LOL!

Of course, there is room for discussing philosophy in groups such as
these, so consider the above a counterperspective, rather than
critique, of what was submitted.

Nina

At 07:48 PM 6/30/2003 +0000, Nina wrote:
philosophy than asana. So, in her yoga classes, she would put people
in asanas, but spend most of the time talking about philosophy. My
job was to go around and provide adjustments (and teach asana) as the
other teacher led the sequence.

Hi Nina,

Would the teacher herself go into those positions while she was talking about
philosophy?  Or would she sit comfortably?  :-)

--Greg

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Greg Goode
<goode@d...> wrote:
> At 07:48 PM 6/30/2003 +0000, Nina wrote:
> philosophy than asana. So, in her yoga classes, she would put
people
> in asanas, but spend most of the time talking about philosophy. My
> job was to go around and provide adjustments (and teach asana) as
the
> other teacher led the sequence.
>
> Hi Nina,
>
> Would the teacher herself go into those positions while she was
talking about philosophy?  Or would she sit comfortably?  :-)
>
> --Greg

LOL! That would have been an entertaining study in full meditation
(!), but no, she would enter the asana briefly, but then stand or sit
as she yammered philosophy. :)

Nina

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003 20:14:28 -0000 "Nina" <murrkis@...> writes:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Greg Goode
> <goode@d...> wrote:
> > At 07:48 PM 6/30/2003 +0000, Nina wrote:
> > philosophy than asana. So, in her yoga classes, she would put
> people
> > in asanas, but spend most of the time talking about philosophy. My
>
> > job was to go around and provide adjustments (and teach asana) as
>
> the
> > other teacher led the sequence.
> >
> > Hi Nina,
> >
> > Would the teacher herself go into those positions while she was
> talking about philosophy?  Or would she sit comfortably?  :-)
> >
> > --Greg
>
> LOL! That would have been an entertaining study in full meditation
> (!), but no, she would enter the asana briefly, but then stand or
> sit
> as she yammered philosophy. :)
>
I love that word, "yammer"
-- it's right up there with
"palaver" when used to
describe what self-indulgent
teachers tend to do!     :-)

Thanks, Nina!

__________________________________________________
http://come.to/realization
http://www.atman.net/realization
http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucemrg.htm
http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm

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> > > philosophy than asana. So, in her yoga classes, she would put
> > people
> > > in asanas, but spend most of the time talking about philosophy. My
> >
> > > job was to go around and provide adjustments (and teach asana) as
> >
> > the
> > > other teacher led the sequence.
> > >
> > > Hi Nina,
> > >
> > > Would the teacher herself go into those positions while she was
> > talking about philosophy?  Or would she sit comfortably?  :-)
> > >
> > > --Greg
> >
> > LOL! That would have been an entertaining study in full meditation
> > (!), but no, she would enter the asana briefly, but then stand or
> > sit
> > as she yammered philosophy. :)
> >


when these kind of teachers where new
  I was fascinated with their clases and called them esoteric, they seemed sooo
eager to
share.

But than it became disturbing..



> I love that word, "yammer"
> -- it's right up there with
> "palaver" when used to
> describe what self-indulgent
> teachers tend to do!     :-)
>
> Thanks, Nina!
>
> > http://www.users.uniserve.com/~samuel/brucsong.htm


   love, Karta

devi: that was a funny story,,i personally think yoga theory is more
important then asana, but i don't think i'd confuse students out of
their asanas by giving speeches... but thats just me..everyone is
where their at...anyway, i posted that essay becuase when gangak left
the topic was *coming and going* sahaja samadhi and nirvikalp, maria
was questioning her yoga samadhis and i thought that essay might
help..the book i copied it from discusses *samadhi* through all the
differnt paths, i think the author was particullary fond of
ramakrishna...

so nina, am i right to understand that you practice asanas but have
no idea abou words like nivikalpa samadhi, or dyhana or darana for
example?
>
> For some time, I assisted another teacher in her classes. She had
> decided that in her teaching, she was better suited to teaching
> philosophy than asana. So, in her yoga classes, she would put
people
> in asanas, but spend most of the time talking about philosophy. My
> job was to go around and provide adjustments (and teach asana) as
the
> other teacher led the sequence.
>
> Numerous times, as I looked out across a sea of 35 to 75 people,
many
> of them struggling to breathe or with easily correctable basic
> alignment snafoos, the other teacher plunged on through elaborate
> discussions of koshas, states of mind, etc., leaving students
hanging
> precariously in their joints or falling out of the asana, further
> distracting students' presence in the moment. And that was just
> during the class - it says nothing of what these students took with
> them from the class.
>
> There is a real sweetness available in working with what is given,
no
> matter how humble-seeming, like how to find ease in the body right
> now, rather than striving for something that isn't present, like
> comprehension of sanskrit words and foreign spiritual concepts
while
> literally standing on one's head. LOL!
>
> Of course, there is room for discussing philosophy in groups such
as
> these, so consider the above a counterperspective, rather than
> critique, of what was submitted.
>
> Nina

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, devianandi >

  When the sphere of Jnana Yoga is considered, it must be appreciated
> that at this stage in man's evolution the fruits gained long ago
> through Hatha Yoga are an integral part of his nature and only very
> modified practices are needed to maintain a body fit for further
> development.

ON the same principle, not much atte3ntion needs to be
> paid to Raja Yoga practices as such, at this stage the effort is to
> be made to control the mind itself consciously:

The way I heard it was that early Hatha Yoga was instituted to
straighten the spine for walking and chakra allighnment from the
simian posture.

This current phase is to learn to control the mind via Raja Yoga.  I
seems to me that work in that area is not finished. No real
conjunction between mythos and logos is really established on a
general basis.

Control of the vrittis and senses has not been accomplished and
control of the mind is a fiction.  The main perpetrator of that
control would be the mind itself.  If the author means laying aside
the mind then that still is not a general accomplishment.

Critically,
Bobby G.

In observing my "self" - just
watching to see what is there,
it appears that the mind wants
always to accumulate more,
... More power, more sensation
more pleasure - mundane or spiritual.

So even the desire for less - to be
"Empty", only becomes just another
accumulation of the mind.

It seems that as long as thought
believes itself to be an entity,
it will continue to remain in a
state of perpetual "becoming".

"Psychological Becoming" - "the me"
and "the mine", as an island of
the "I", and the illusion of being
a separate and permanent inward entity,
... A self-identified egotistical center.

The mind cannot move into the stillness
of the present moment, because its very
movement is just more chatter - it is only
an intellectualization.

Seeing "what is" requires direct perception,
without ANY conceptual overlay - the silent
observation of what is actually present.
... Just FEELING the very depths of NOW, with
a "Heart" that is open and vulnerable.

Can there be no identification with thought,
with emotion - with the body?
... Can there just be Awareness?
... Can the mind be still?

Action from the mind has the self-interest
of motive, because it is contrived and based
the conditioning of thinking - it has an end
in view,
... But action from the "Heart" is spontaneous,
fresh and free, and based on the sensitivity
of direct and intimate contact - it has no
attachment to the outcome.

It is the highest form of intelligence.
... It is the compassionate action of Love.

Tony