--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, asimpjoy
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
>
> Popular methods for quieting the mind.
>
> Concentration:
> This is when I force myself to pay attention to a particular
object.  ... And when I concentrate on something in this way I
must exclude  other things, because I have the motive of
achieving a desired result. This means I must suppress
whatever interferes with what I am trying  to concentrate on.

> Absorption:
> This is when my mind is absorbed by an object so completely
that  it consumes my total attention, and as long as the object
absorbs my  attention I will have forgotten myself.
> ... But, like the child who is temporarily pacified with a toy,
> when the toy is taken away it is thrown back on to itself again,
> and so it then returns to its same old mischief.
>
> Meditation:
> Here the mind is only passively aware. There is no motive, no
object,
> no exclusion. It simply observes whatever is present - it is
totally
> inclusive!
> It seems that only the passive awareness of selfless
observation can
> actually eliminate the egotistical observer, and thereby allow
the
> mind to enter a dimension of unselfconscious Silence.
> ... And it appears that only the dimension of pure Awareness
can
> bring about an authentic action of spontaneous Compassion.
>
> With love and affection,
> Tony


G:    you want to enter into relaxed awareness and not a
concentration that seeks to supress thoughts...   that is a
robot..... this is not about becoming a mindless zombie...  but a
vibrant and aware Being that is totally within the Now........

       one is walking death with misery and the other is total Life
        which is spontaneous and free........

Dan: The sufferers need
someone who doesn't suffer, so
they can keep suffering.

Suffering succotash!

Dan -

I'm assuming that you were not opposed
to having this posted and I therefore
consider if appropriate to respond to
your comments, on this site...

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "judirhodes" <
judirhodes@z...> wrote:
> No, does this have any relevance - a repost from the ranch list -
> from Dan -
>
>
> Not to mention the happy meditators who
>   have to make sure you understand how realized and in bliss
>   they are, how deep from the silence they are
>   speaking, how really truly real is their realization --
>   Just so you know that it's just like Ramana said,
>   and how amazing it is to realize that it's
>   just like he said -- and if you don't get that,
>   you are going to get the subtle love darts
>   intended to bring you down some notches -- every time.

What you see as ego-centered peacocking,
happy meditators see as offering of a lively hope,
and our purpose is to serve as witnesses to the
beautiful truth that the past and present awakened,
enlightened and realized teachers offer, as
encouragement to those "on the road".

The "love darts" are provoked by the
attributions that you, Judi and Jason post about
many of us happy meditators: accusations of fraud,
delusion, deceit and the litany of negativity
that comes from little or no direct contact with
those at whom you fire your own darts.

It seems to me that you have no understanding of what
motivates a happy meditator. The return darts are
intended to counter false accusations and attributions
that seem to me to be attempts to undermine the
veracity and purpose of the happy meditators' offering,
and which potentially discourage those who seek
to find ways past the stress and discouragement
in their lives. Happy meditators offer reports
of rewards they found on the road they traveled.
And that is what we defend.
>
> Confronting people about self-satisfaction and
>   smug bullshit is a losing proposition -- they
>   will keep on with what keeps them feeling good
>   about themselves, and stick it to ya in return --
>   every time.

What you see as self-satisfaction and smug bullshit,
happy meditators see as gratitude and an eagerness
to share the bounty of the treasure they have found
with all who ask about it.

>
> It's remarkable how the same ploy gets played again
>   and again and again ...
>
> That's all selves are is these ploys, so that's the last thing
>   anyone is going to look into.
>
> The spiritual ploys somehow seem the worst of all, as
>   bad as all the other ploys can be.  There is something
>   particularly nasty, vicious, and self-serving about
>   the spiritualized self-ploys.  I think it's because
>   all the knives have to be covered up with lots
>   of gooey love and wisdom.

What you see as nasty, vicious and self-serving, happy
meditators see as selfness, loving, kind and caring service
to other people. Love and wisdom are not derisive or threatening terms
to happy meditators.
>
> A favorite seems to be:
>   It's fine with me to lose my self as long as I can
>   tell everyone how deep from silence I'm speaking, or
>   the amazing love bliss I now have, and we get
>   to smugly congratulate and reinforce one another --
>   and so on.

What you see as self-aggrandizement, happy meditators
see as witnessing to the reality of a way of escape from
stress and confusion, which they speak to from experiential
knowledge. What you see as smug congratulations, happy
meditators see as positive and faith-building affirmations.
The view is toward those seeking a way out. To tell them
they are already out leaves the vast majority in despair
when what they hear from the advaita view is "this is all
there is, live with it." Happy meditators offer real world
efforts that precede grace.

> But to look into that "act" and see that it's just
>   another version of self -- that would be to suffer
>   a real loss ...
>
> And that's the last thing any of these self-proclaimed
>   realizers living in contentment and bliss want ...
>
> The claim of a loss that made me a special realizer
>   living deep in silent bliss love
>   is so much easier to deal with,
>   and then I get to keep the suffering and call
>   it blissful silence ... what could be better?

What you see as us happy meditators feeling like we
are "special realizers", is us happy meditators
jumping for joy for us anything-but-special people
having received a beautiful gift that ends the
suffering - mountains of suffering made into mole
hills, dust in the wind.

Suffering succotash! Is that all you eat? Don't you
ever have a gooey dessert and get past all your
suffering?

All the love,

Jeff
>
> -- Dan

Dear Bob and all -

Today, and again on Thursday,
I have an opportunity to present
an "educational segment" of a
monthly meeting, held by a
company called Executive Forums.

I'll be at one Maine's largest
law firms today, and in attendance
will be CEOs from a variety of
Maine's larger businesses.

The theme of my presentation
is "Productive Goofing Off".
I had to provide drafts of
my Power Point Presentation
slides, and on the final
slide, I introduced:

"Natural Enlightenment...

Tapping Into Intuitive
Consciousness.

Heart Meditation..."

I wasn't sure this one
would make it past the
conservative corporate
panel who approves the
presentations. But to my
pleasant surprise, they
asked that I spend the
most time on this final
slide...and asked, "would
I give them specific
things to do, and explain
how to do this meditation...
and would it help with stress...
for the CEOs...and their
employees?"

It appears that maybe more
of the mainstream corporate
world is taking a look at
the heart...
of business and commerce.

I'll let you know how
it goes.

Namaste and love,

Jeff

At 20:46 31/03/2003 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi Lobster,
>
>Your statement on simplicity coincided with another post...
>
>To attain Knowledge,
>add things every day.
>To attain Wisdom,
>remove things every day.
>~ Lao Tzu
>
>Simply...TonyO


My Fellow Americans, Beloved Iraqis,
United Nations of Internet (UNI),

Both have their place.
Most of us learn something
every day (attain knowledge)
and those of us leaving 'wisdom'
become more removable . . .

Coincidental?

LOL
Imagine an obstruction
unaware of its condition
then we can be
aware (know the obstruction)
and Still
wisely unobstructed . . .


>G:    this is why not everyone is meant to be a teacher / guide/
>mentor .....     it takes clarity ...   it takes knowing the situation and
>the one that is being worked with ....   it takes committment  and
>dedication....  balance and wisdom ...    not  flattery or insults and
>degrading words....
>
>       compassion may wear many faces.... a good teacher knows
>which one is needed in what moment....
>
>    shanti om

Perhaps that is what you have been led to believe? :-)
Is it also possible that not everyone
is meant to be a student / disciple / seeker?
My 'teacher' taught me Nothing.
I learnt a great deal from this.

   . . . and talking of meditation . . .
What is the difference (not between)?

Faceless Lobster face
Considerations
http://tooting.webspace.fish.co.uk/consider/page2.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Nah, you're Jason -- I spotted you right away.
>
> Thanks for giving me shit, it helps my roses grow
> ...
>
> -- Dan

Darn, no fooling a fool! No, no, no, thank you for
giving me shit. Roses in bloom.

Peace and Love dude :)

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--- dan330033 <dan330033@...> wrote:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> Jason Fishman
> <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
> > True, yet nothing gets removed or it all goes
> > together. Define a seperation and thats what one
> gets,
> > something seperate. Ego not apart.
> >
> > Not to long ago we didn't have anything to
> believe,
> > soon enough it will come to pass, back to nothing,
> > let's just forget.
>
> You don't have the power to make anything separate.
>
> That's the delusion of the illusion.
>
> There's no going back.

But, but, it says so right here in the manual, hmmm
must be a misprint.

Peace and Love


__________________________________________________
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--- dan330033 <dan330033@...> wrote:
> > The irony of all is that all is potential, not
> > exclusive to mankind, whether all understands or
> not.
>
> Nice -- exactly -- it's not about me.
>
> > Mankind comes along with all it's understandings
> and
> > all potentials are lost in the translation.
>
> Yes.  That's why it's called transcendence.
>
> > Look
> > exclusively within and find no one, look at all
> and
> > find yourself.
>
> Truth.
>
> > All this look into needs looking into :)
>
> It takes all you got.  And then some.
>
> If there's not a mirror, none
>   of the images appearing is you.
>
> > Peace and Love
>
> Drib and Drab,
>
> Abracadab

POOF!

Chaos and hate


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--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
<jeff@s...> wrote:
> Dear Bob and all -
>
> Today, and again on Thursday,
> I have an opportunity to present
> an "educational segment" of a
> monthly meeting, held by a
> company called Executive Forums.
>
> I'll be at one Maine's largest
> law firms today, and in attendance
> will be CEOs from a variety of
> Maine's larger businesses.
>
> The theme of my presentation
> is "Productive Goofing Off".
> I had to provide drafts of
> my Power Point Presentation
> slides, and on the final
> slide, I introduced:
>
> "Natural Enlightenment...
>
> Tapping Into Intuitive
> Consciousness.
>
> Heart Meditation..."
>
> I wasn't sure this one
> would make it past the
> conservative corporate
> panel who approves the
> presentations. But to my
> pleasant surprise, they
> asked that I spend the
> most time on this final
> slide...and asked, "would
> I give them specific
> things to do, and explain
> how to do this meditation...
> and would it help with stress...
> for the CEOs...and their
> employees?"
>
> It appears that maybe more
> of the mainstream corporate
> world is taking a look at
> the heart...
> of business and commerce.
>
> I'll let you know how
> it goes.
>
> Namaste and love,
>
> Jeff

Dear Papajeff,
In a way, I'm not surprised at all about corporate America welcoming
Meditation education. We've been giving seminars to many different
types of professional organizations and corporations for more than 10
years. The insurance companies have recognized the value of meditation
as a health related asset to mental, emotional and physical well
being, and many corporations now implement all the preventive health
maintenance methodologies they can afford. And none are more cost
effective than meditation. Similarly, meditation is the singular
method most easily learned, retained, and actually used. So, I'm not
going to say anything corny like "Give em hell"...I'm going to get
even cornier, and say "Give em heaven":-)
Peace and blessings,
Bob

--- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
> Dan -
>
> I'm assuming that you were not opposed
> to having this posted and I therefore
> consider if appropriate to respond to
> your comments, on this site...

J: Still enjoying assumptions, eh? I'm assuming your
enjoying my inappropriateness.

> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> "judirhodes" <
> judirhodes@z...> wrote:
> > No, does this have any relevance - a repost from
> the ranch list -
> > from Dan -
> >
> >
> > Not to mention the happy meditators who
> >   have to make sure you understand how realized
> and in bliss
> >   they are, how deep from the silence they are
> >   speaking, how really truly real is their
> realization --
> >   Just so you know that it's just like Ramana
> said,
> >   and how amazing it is to realize that it's
> >   just like he said -- and if you don't get that,
> >   you are going to get the subtle love darts
> >   intended to bring you down some notches -- every
> time.
>
> What you see as ego-centered peacocking,

J: Personally I see me, like my feathers?

> happy meditators see as offering of a lively hope,
> and our purpose is to serve as witnesses to the
> beautiful truth that the past and present awakened,
> enlightened and realized teachers offer, as
> encouragement to those "on the road".

J: I'm not only on the road, I am the road. I don't
only have hope, I am the hope. I hope to serve you
better right now.

> The "love darts" are provoked by the
> attributions that you, Judi and Jason post about
> many of us happy meditators: accusations of fraud,
> delusion, deceit and the litany of negativity
> that comes from little or no direct contact with
> those at whom you fire your own darts.

J: I accuse myself of fraud, I'm so fraudulent that
I've deluded myself so long to believing I was. I keep
throwing these dart and OUCH!

> It seems to me that you have no understanding of
> what
> motivates a happy meditator. The return darts are
> intended to counter false accusations and
> attributions
> that seem to me to be attempts to undermine the
> veracity and purpose of the happy meditators'
> offering,
> and which potentially discourage those who seek
> to find ways past the stress and discouragement
> in their lives. Happy meditators offer reports
> of rewards they found on the road they traveled.
> And that is what we defend.

J: Thats the key, I suppose. I do understand what
motivates the happy motivator, you just don't care for
it. Thats ok neither do I.

> > Confronting people about self-satisfaction and
> >   smug bullshit is a losing proposition -- they
> >   will keep on with what keeps them feeling good
> >   about themselves, and stick it to ya in return
> --
> >   every time.
>
> What you see as self-satisfaction and smug bullshit,
> happy meditators see as gratitude and an eagerness
> to share the bounty of the treasure they have found
> with all who ask about it.

J: Yes, self-satisfaction thats it! Here have the
treasure, it's to heavy for me to carry.

> >
> > It's remarkable how the same ploy gets played
> again
> >   and again and again ...
> >
> > That's all selves are is these ploys, so that's
> the last thing
> >   anyone is going to look into.
> >
> > The spiritual ploys somehow seem the worst of all,
> as
> >   bad as all the other ploys can be.  There is
> something
> >   particularly nasty, vicious, and self-serving
> about
> >   the spiritualized self-ploys.  I think it's
> because
> >   all the knives have to be covered up with lots
> >   of gooey love and wisdom.
>
> What you see as nasty, vicious and self-serving,
> happy
> meditators see as selfness, loving, kind and caring
> service
> to other people. Love and wisdom are not derisive or
> threatening terms
> to happy meditators.

J: I'm threatened by that! I think. Here have some
Love and Wisdom, thats to heavy too.

> >
> > A favorite seems to be:
> >   It's fine with me to lose my self as long as I
> can
> >   tell everyone how deep from silence I'm
> speaking, or
> >   the amazing love bliss I now have, and we get
> >   to smugly congratulate and reinforce one another
> --
> >   and so on.
>
> What you see as self-aggrandizement, happy
> meditators
> see as witnessing to the reality of a way of escape
> from
> stress and confusion, which they speak to from
> experiential
> knowledge. What you see as smug congratulations,
> happy
> meditators see as positive and faith-building
> affirmations.
> The view is toward those seeking a way out. To tell
> them
> they are already out leaves the vast majority in
> despair
> when what they hear from the advaita view is "this
> is all
> there is, live with it." Happy meditators offer real
> world
> efforts that precede grace.

J: Yes, I'm happy you see ALL that way too!

> > But to look into that "act" and see that it's just
> >   another version of self -- that would be to
> suffer
> >   a real loss ...
> >
> > And that's the last thing any of these
> self-proclaimed
> >   realizers living in contentment and bliss want
> ...
> >
> > The claim of a loss that made me a special
> realizer
> >   living deep in silent bliss love
> >   is so much easier to deal with,
> >   and then I get to keep the suffering and call
> >   it blissful silence ... what could be better?
>
> What you see as us happy meditators feeling like we
> are "special realizers", is us happy meditators
> jumping for joy for us anything-but-special people
> having received a beautiful gift that ends the
> suffering - mountains of suffering made into mole
> hills, dust in the wind.
>
> Suffering succotash! Is that all you eat? Don't you
> ever have a gooey dessert and get past all your
> suffering?
>
> All the love,
>
> Jeff

J: I am passed all my suffering, since I am suffering
right now. I'm passed all my happiness, since I'm
happy right now. The rest they say, is you, me and
history make three.

Peace and Love

__________________________________________________
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--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
> <jeff@s...> wrote:
> > Dear Bob and all -
> >
> > Today, and again on Thursday,
> > I have an opportunity to present
> > an "educational segment" of a
> > monthly meeting, held by a
> > company called Executive Forums.
> >
> > I'll be at one Maine's largest
> > law firms today, and in attendance
> > will be CEOs from a variety of
> > Maine's larger businesses.
> >
> > The theme of my presentation
> > is "Productive Goofing Off".
> > I had to provide drafts of
> > my Power Point Presentation
> > slides, and on the final
> > slide, I introduced:
> >
> > "Natural Enlightenment...
> >
> > Tapping Into Intuitive
> > Consciousness.
> >
> > Heart Meditation..."
> >
> > I wasn't sure this one
> > would make it past the
> > conservative corporate
> > panel who approves the
> > presentations. But to my
> > pleasant surprise, they
> > asked that I spend the
> > most time on this final
> > slide...and asked, "would
> > I give them specific
> > things to do, and explain
> > how to do this meditation...
> > and would it help with stress...
> > for the CEOs...and their
> > employees?"
> >
> > It appears that maybe more
> > of the mainstream corporate
> > world is taking a look at
> > the heart...
> > of business and commerce.
> >
> > I'll let you know how
> > it goes.
> >
> > Namaste and love,
> >
> > Jeff
>
> Dear Papajeff,
> In a way, I'm not surprised at all about corporate America welcoming
> Meditation education. We've been giving seminars to many different
> types of professional organizations and corporations for more than 10
> years. The insurance companies have recognized the value of meditation
> as a health related asset to mental, emotional and physical well
> being, and many corporations now implement all the preventive health
> maintenance methodologies they can afford. And none are more cost
> effective than meditation. Similarly, meditation is the singular
> method most easily learned, retained, and actually used. So, I'm not
> going to say anything corny like "Give em hell"...I'm going to get
> even cornier, and say "Give em heaven":-)
> Peace and blessings,
> Bob


Dear Bob -

Wow, you were exactly right. Reminds me of Rumi's poem
about knocking on the door and realizing that you
were on the inside already. The group was enthusiastic
and receptive way beyond my expectations. The note pads
really came out when we came to specific techniques of
meditation. A very positive and encouraging experience.

Meditation rules.

Tampa Bay Bucs are Superbowl Champions.

Life is good.

Love and namaste,

Jeff

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fishman
<munkiman4u@y...> wrote:

> Peace and Love
>

Jason -

Any ice cream with that apple pie?

Jeff

--- Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> Jason Fishman
> <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
>
> > Peace and Love
> >
>
> Jason -
>
> Any ice cream with that apple pie?
>
> Jeff

Sure, make mine only one scoop though. Gotta keep my
girlish figure.



__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
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--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Jason Fishman
<munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
>
> --- Jeff Belyea <jeff@s...> wrote:
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> > Jason Fishman
> > <munkiman4u@y...> wrote:
> >
> > > Peace and Love
> > >
> >
> > Jason -
> >
> > Any ice cream with that apple pie?
> >
> > Jeff
>
> Sure, make mine only one scoop though. Gotta keep my
> girlish figure.
>

Now cut that out. I'm already accused
of wearing pink tights. And my wife,
who, like everything in my life, is
wonderful, stunning and gorgeous -
could get concerned. She's
also a massage therapists and an
Ananda Yoga Teacher - just to add
a cherry to my gooey-hot-fudge-brownie
-sundae life.

Nice to see that you can be sweet.
I'm trying to forget that "fake" toe
tag you tried to put on me. But then I did
call you, "Shorty", or was it shortly?

Love remains, bliss is,

Jeff

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
<jeff@s...> wrote:
>
> Love remains, bliss is,
>
****** Bullshit remains, avoidance continues.

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff
Belyea" <jeff@s...> wrote:
> Dan -
>
> I'm assuming that you were not opposed
> to having this posted and I therefore
> consider if appropriate to respond to
> your comments, on this site...
>
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
"judirhodes" <
> judirhodes@z...> wrote:
> > No, does this have any relevance - a repost from the ranch
list -
> > from Dan -
> >
> >
> > Not to mention the happy meditators who
> >   have to make sure you understand how realized and in
bliss
> >   they are, how deep from the silence they are
> >   speaking, how really truly real is their realization --
> >   Just so you know that it's just like Ramana said,
> >   and how amazing it is to realize that it's
> >   just like he said -- and if you don't get that,
> >   you are going to get the subtle love darts
> >   intended to bring you down some notches -- every time.
>
> What you see as ego-centered peacocking,
> happy meditators see as offering of a lively hope,
> and our purpose is to serve as witnesses to the
> beautiful truth that the past and present awakened,
> enlightened and realized teachers offer, as
> encouragement to those "on the road".
>
> The "love darts" are provoked by the
> attributions that you, Judi and Jason post about
> many of us happy meditators: accusations of fraud,
> delusion, deceit and the litany of negativity
> that comes from little or no direct contact with
> those at whom you fire your own darts.
>
> It seems to me that you have no understanding of what
> motivates a happy meditator. The return darts are
> intended to counter false accusations and attributions
> that seem to me to be attempts to undermine the
> veracity and purpose of the happy meditators' offering,
> and which potentially discourage those who seek
> to find ways past the stress and discouragement
> in their lives. Happy meditators offer reports
> of rewards they found on the road they traveled.
> And that is what we defend.
> >
> > Confronting people about self-satisfaction and
> >   smug bullshit is a losing proposition -- they
> >   will keep on with what keeps them feeling good
> >   about themselves, and stick it to ya in return --
> >   every time.
>
> What you see as self-satisfaction and smug bullshit,
> happy meditators see as gratitude and an eagerness
> to share the bounty of the treasure they have found
> with all who ask about it.
>
> >
> > It's remarkable how the same ploy gets played again
> >   and again and again ...
> >
> > That's all selves are is these ploys, so that's the last thing
> >   anyone is going to look into.
> >
> > The spiritual ploys somehow seem the worst of all, as
> >   bad as all the other ploys can be.  There is something
> >   particularly nasty, vicious, and self-serving about
> >   the spiritualized self-ploys.  I think it's because
> >   all the knives have to be covered up with lots
> >   of gooey love and wisdom.
>
> What you see as nasty, vicious and self-serving, happy
> meditators see as selfness, loving, kind and caring service
> to other people. Love and wisdom are not derisive or
threatening terms
> to happy meditators.
> >
> > A favorite seems to be:
> >   It's fine with me to lose my self as long as I can
> >   tell everyone how deep from silence I'm speaking, or
> >   the amazing love bliss I now have, and we get
> >   to smugly congratulate and reinforce one another --
> >   and so on.
>
> What you see as self-aggrandizement, happy meditators
> see as witnessing to the reality of a way of escape from
> stress and confusion, which they speak to from experiential
> knowledge. What you see as smug congratulations, happy
> meditators see as positive and faith-building affirmations.
> The view is toward those seeking a way out. To tell them
> they are already out leaves the vast majority in despair
> when what they hear from the advaita view is "this is all
> there is, live with it." Happy meditators offer real world
> efforts that precede grace.
>
> > But to look into that "act" and see that it's just
> >   another version of self -- that would be to suffer
> >   a real loss ...
> >
> > And that's the last thing any of these self-proclaimed
> >   realizers living in contentment and bliss want ...
> >
> > The claim of a loss that made me a special realizer
> >   living deep in silent bliss love
> >   is so much easier to deal with,
> >   and then I get to keep the suffering and call
> >   it blissful silence ... what could be better?
>
> What you see as us happy meditators feeling like we
> are "special realizers", is us happy meditators
> jumping for joy for us anything-but-special people
> having received a beautiful gift that ends the
> suffering - mountains of suffering made into mole
> hills, dust in the wind.
>
> Suffering succotash! Is that all you eat? Don't you
> ever have a gooey dessert and get past all your
> suffering?
>
> All the love,
>
> Jeff


G: one more additional comment to Jeff's clarity.....   you see we
do not think that we are higher - more special - elite...   we Know
that what we are is most ordinary ...  we have gone past all the
games....    and where we are everyone can be....    behind all of
the shadows and clouds of ignorance (which parade through
mental dramas and judgement)  , remains the light of Pure
Being which is everyones birthright.....

   now don't take parts of this former paragraph and twist it to
once again attempt to say "see there you go saying your special
and different again.."
no it is not that ....   the fact that some continue to see it in that
light simply shows where their attention and hang-ups are .....
we Share what we have out of Gratitude and Love .....  Knowing
there is a way out of the madness - suffering - and mental
gymnastics of attempting to secure a place in the world.....

    this is why when others attack in spiteful ways we don't simply
run away....   i used to run ...  i used to hide....  i used to seek all
the needy support or rail against the establishment...
guess what ?  that is all over....    neither do i buckle under the
school yard bullies that simply now put on a different cloak ....
  bullies are bullies ,   cons are cons ,  intellectuals are
intellectuals ,  heartfelt is heartfelt ,  giving without seeking
anything in return is called compassion and love....

    why must everyone have some hidden agenda ?  is it not rather
the one that is pointing in that direction and judging it so may be
simply is seeing what is within their own lives....  ?

     perhaps some give simply as a spontaneous part of living ....
no agendas - no hidden motives - no needs or wants to be
propped up .....   maybe the ordinary is so extraordinary that
simply  giving through the joy of living is misconstrued as
something other than what it is .....    a celebration of Wholeness
that is Love ...   and Love by nature extends itself not seeking
anything than others well being and happiness....

shanti om

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "judirhodes"
<judirhodes@z...> wrote:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
> <jeff@s...> wrote:
> >
> > Love remains, bliss is,
> >
> ****** Bullshit remains, avoidance continues.

There seems to be no way to avoid
you and your endless supply of wet blankets.

Remaining in the sweat lodge,
hugging my peace pipe,

Papajeff

(snip)

> G: one more additional comment to Jeff's clarity.....   you see we
> do not think that we are higher - more special - elite...   we Know
> that what we are is most ordinary ...  we have gone past all the
> games....    and where we are everyone can be....    behind all of
> the shadows and clouds of ignorance (which parade through
> mental dramas and judgement)  , remains the light of Pure
> Being which is everyones birthright.....
>
>   now don't take parts of this former paragraph and twist it to
> once again attempt to say "see there you go saying your special
> and different again.."
> no it is not that ....   the fact that some continue to see it in
that
> light simply shows where their attention and hang-ups are .....
> we Share what we have out of Gratitude and Love .....  Knowing
> there is a way out of the madness - suffering - and mental
> gymnastics of attempting to secure a place in the world.....
>
>    this is why when others attack in spiteful ways we don't simply
> run away....   i used to run ...  i used to hide....  i used to
seek all
> the needy support or rail against the establishment...
> guess what ?  that is all over....    neither do i buckle under the
> school yard bullies that simply now put on a different cloak ....
>  bullies are bullies ,   cons are cons ,  intellectuals are
> intellectuals ,  heartfelt is heartfelt ,  giving without seeking
> anything in return is called compassion and love....
>
>    why must everyone have some hidden agenda ?  is it not rather
> the one that is pointing in that direction and judging it so may be
> simply is seeing what is within their own lives....  ?
>
>     perhaps some give simply as a spontaneous part of living ....
> no agendas - no hidden motives - no needs or wants to be
> propped up .....   maybe the ordinary is so extraordinary that
> simply  giving through the joy of living is misconstrued as
> something other than what it is .....    a celebration of Wholeness
> that is Love ...   and Love by nature extends itself not seeking
> anything than others well being and happiness....
>
> shanti om

**** T: I think that most anyone who actually met you and hung out
with you - for any length of time,
... Would see that to be an obvious fact.

Love,
Tony

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G"
<crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
>
> G: one more additional comment to Jeff's clarity.....   you see we
> do not think that we are higher - more special - elite...   we Know
> that what we are is most ordinary ...  we have gone past all the
> games....    and where we are everyone can be....    behind all of
> the shadows and clouds of ignorance (which parade through
> mental dramas and judgement)  , remains the light of Pure
> Being which is everyones birthright.....
>
******* Who's this "we" white girl, you got a mouse in yer pocket?

Case closed, thanks for proving Dan's point!

Sheesh!

Judi

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "judirhodes"
<judirhodes@z...> wrote:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G"
> <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
> >
> > G: one more additional comment to Jeff's clarity.....   you see we
> > do not think that we are higher - more special - elite...   we Know
> > that what we are is most ordinary ...  we have gone past all the
> > games....    and where we are everyone can be....    behind all of
> > the shadows and clouds of ignorance (which parade through
> > mental dramas and judgement)  , remains the light of Pure
> > Being which is everyones birthright.....
> >

"We" are HAPPY MEDITATORS - Dan's generous description.

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@s...>
wrote:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "judirhodes"
> <judirhodes@z...> wrote:
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G"
> > <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
> > >
> > > G: one more additional comment to Jeff's clarity.....   you see we
> > > do not think that we are higher - more special - elite...   we Know
> > > that what we are is most ordinary ...  we have gone past all the
> > > games....    and where we are everyone can be....    behind all of
> > > the shadows and clouds of ignorance (which parade through
> > > mental dramas and judgement)  , remains the light of Pure
> > > Being which is everyones birthright.....
> > >
>
> "We" are HAPPY MEDITATORS - Dan's generous description.

And I think Dan's point is this:  to be a "happy meditator" requires
one to define themselves as such, and as such they provide themselves
with yet another cage of identity, that of being the "happy meditator."

So, being a "happy meditator" is just like being a "suffering wannabe"
or a "perpetual loser" insofar as these are all self-generated definitions
of individuality rather than the pure being behind it all.

This isn't to say that a "happy meditator" doesn't have access to
themselves as this pure being, just that they dress this pure being
up as the "happy meditator" and parade it around for those they
consider less happy then themselves.

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Lobster
<edjason@b...> wrote:

G:  first off my apology to lobster in advance ....   this is not meant
to be directed at him or her ...   but simply lobster is being used
in this instance as an object to make a point....  i think that
lobster is sincere in whatever is being shared .......    now with
that apology given here we go.........



L.> Is it also possible that not everyone
> is meant to be a student / disciple / seeker?
> My 'teacher' taught me Nothing.
> I learnt a great deal from this.

G:    that is also a learning a teaching ....   and perhaps you are
simply putting another spin on the same exact dynamic ....  is
this what you were *led* to believe?  or is it what you found ?


>
> Faceless Lobster face

G:     another conceptualized picture...    another idea being
hawked a faceless lobster ....    are you attempting to lead others
to believe that you are a faceless lobster ?    someone that has
been cooked to perfection so that impersonal nothingness
remains....?
this in itself may be seen as an attempt to lead others to believe
something about you ....   i doubt there are many bleating sheep
here that will just accept this point blank.....



> Considerations
> http://tooting.webspace.fish.co.uk/consider/page2.html

  and what belief system are you selling here - what sheep are
you expecting to find ?   see how easy it is to simply speak from
this point of casting lingering doubts on others seeing and
motivations  ....  this takes no skill....  the well placed inuendo
and put down.........   it is childs play....

leave it on the schoolyards ....     come back to sanity and
honesty.....   these types of antics are simply wastes of energy -
waves that attempt to disturb the simplicity of truth or what is
being shared   ........

  people see what they are seeking for whether to embrace or
fight against....   otherwise they let it pass when it holds no
motivation or hook    ....   some that want to play intellectual
genius will simply throw out hooks hoping that someone will bite
so they can then show their vast superiority......    sitting back
smugly - patting themselves on the back for anyone they can
disturb or destroy with their antics.....   the lists for them have
simply become another game like pac-man ....   there is no
heartfelt concern about anyone that they encounter......  everyone
is simply another cog to be played with .....   there is no love
within them ....   there is simply this deluded idea that the
universe revolves around themselves ...    either play on their
terms or be destroyed....    either see it their way or suffer their
wrath......    how petty ....  how self centered it has all become....
and it is justified by the philosophy that no one is hurt everyone is
simply non existent or part of me so i can do whatever i damn
well please ....    this is arrogance and not Love ....  this is not
Jnana this is the i am of self at its height of delusion.....

Love does not seek to hurt - maim -  or boost itself at the
expense of others....    yes it gives ....   it gives what is best in the
moment....   it does not seek to find every flaw to rip and tear to
shreds....    it gives as a celebration of Living ....   sometimes it is
hard but not with any idea other than to make way for clarity and
peace.....

when heads win out over hearts many justifications are put in
place.....    this is Why it is so paramount to keep heart and
devotion within your practices ....   why Love is so important ...
even within the path of Knowledge it must be balanced with Love
.....     in Kali Yuga the Heart dynamic has been sadly lacking ....  it
is time to put it back in place....     time to let go of knowing about
for real Knowing ...   Peace - Love - Compassion come out of
balance....      seek and destroy come out of self.....  hmmmmmm
you choose....


>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It was still Dan's generous description.

Still enjoying life,

Jeff

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
<jeff@s...> wrote:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "judirhodes"
> <judirhodes@z...> wrote:
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "G"
> > <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
> > >
> > > G: one more additional comment to Jeff's clarity.....   you see
we
> > > do not think that we are higher - more special - elite...   we
Know
> > > that what we are is most ordinary ...  we have gone past all
the
> > > games....    and where we are everyone can be....    behind all
of
> > > the shadows and clouds of ignorance (which parade through
> > > mental dramas and judgement)  , remains the light of Pure
> > > Being which is everyones birthright.....
> > >
>
> "We" are HAPPY MEDITATORS - Dan's generous description.

***** Not too bright are you Jeff? :-)

I'd take another look at that "we" business if I was you.
It might surprise you!

Judi

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, asimpjoy
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
>
> Popular methods for quieting the mind.
>
> Concentration:
> This is when I force myself to pay attention to a particular
object.
> ... And when I concentrate on something in this way I must exclude
> other things, because I have the motive of achieving a desired
result.
> This means I must suppress whatever interferes with what I am
trying
> to concentrate on.
>
> Absorption:
> This is when my mind is absorbed by an object so completely that
> it consumes my total attention, and as long as the object absorbs
my
> attention I will have forgotten myself.
> ... But, like the child who is temporarily pacified with a toy,
> when the toy is taken away it is thrown back on to itself again,
> and so it then returns to its same old mischief.
>
> Meditation:
> Here the mind is only passively aware. There is no motive, no
object,
> no exclusion. It simply observes whatever is present - it is
totally
> inclusive!
> It seems that only the passive awareness of selfless observation
can
> actually eliminate the egotistical observer, and thereby allow the
> mind to enter a dimension of unselfconscious Silence.
> ... And it appears that only the dimension of pure Awareness can
> bring about an authentic action of spontaneous Compassion.
>
> With love and affection,
> Tony

Thanks, Tony, for these thoughtful, clear explanations.

It makes sense that if I'm absorbed in something,
   I can lose that absorption if I lose that something.

Unless that in which I'm being absorbed isn't an object,
   is what has been called Self or God.

Yet, to the extent that absorption is an experience, it begins
   at some point -- and what has a beginning, has an ending.

The same recognition can be applied to meditation -- if I
   begin at some point to experience the passive awareness
   you describe, then that experience will have an end.

For example, it could end with the experience of active
   awareness.

Or you may mean by "passive awareness" that awareness which
   begins and ends not, in and through which all that is, is known.

Beginning not would mean not having a recognizable experience
   of some sort associated, as all experiences equally
   arise and fall within "this" which is never itself
   experienced.

Recognizing this, we can differentiate experiential
   meditational states, from nonexperiential truth,
   meditation as the very awareness in which all arises
   now, subsides, now.

Still, there is the relationship of "this" to experience,
   to phenomena to comprehend.

One is this relationship, which is at once the totality
   of all relationship possibilities, and no relationship
   at all.

As nonseparable awareness, I include all relationship,
   all phenomena.  And yet, I am not in relationship,
   as there is no separable beings or things with which
   I could be in relationship, or which could be
   in relationship with me.

When beings speak of a "relationship with God," they
   are then speaking of separable qualities and beings,
   all arising and subsiding in "this" which therefore
   is beyond a God of relationship,
   beyond being, and beyond beings --
   yet from which no being is ever apart -- even
   for a second.

This is timeless meditation, beyond passive awareness or
   active awareness, even beyond any such quality as
   awareness which could be contrasted with nonawareness.

Peace,
Dan

G: one more additional comment to Jeff's clarity.....
  you see we
do not think that we are higher - more special -
elite...   we Know
that what we are is most ordinary ...  we have gone
past all the
games....    and where we are everyone can be....
behind all of
the shadows and clouds of ignorance (which parade
through
mental dramas and judgement)  , remains the light of
Pure
Being which is everyones birthright.....

   now don't take parts of this former paragraph and
twist it to
once again attempt to say "see there you go saying
your special
and different again.."
no it is not that ....   the fact that some continue
to see it in that
light simply shows where their attention and hang-ups
are .....
we Share what we have out of Gratitude and Love .....
Knowing
there is a way out of the madness - suffering - and
mental
gymnastics of attempting to secure a place in the
world.....

    this is why when others attack in spiteful ways we
don't simply
run away....   i used to run ...  i used to hide....
i used to seek all
the needy support or rail against the establishment...

guess what ?  that is all over....    neither do i
buckle under the
school yard bullies that simply now put on a different
cloak ....
bullies are bullies ,   cons are cons ,  intellectuals
are
intellectuals ,  heartfelt is heartfelt ,  giving
without seeking
anything in return is called compassion and love....


    why must everyone have some hidden agenda ?  is it
not rather
the one that is pointing in that direction and judging
it so may be
simply is seeing what is within their own lives....  ?


     perhaps some give simply as a spontaneous part of
living ....
no agendas - no hidden motives - no needs or wants to
be
propped up .....   maybe the ordinary is so
extraordinary that
simply  giving through the joy of living is
misconstrued as
something other than what it is .....    a celebration
of Wholeness
that is Love ...   and Love by nature extends itself
not seeking
anything than others well being and happiness....

shanti om

It's very simple Ganga. You got it down, like a
science, even if you don't see, it others do.

There are people that hate, they hate so much that
just being around them, one can feel it pour off of
them, they have it down too.

Here you are, the opposite end of the spectrum
speaking of it's validity. No one can deny it, no one
can say your wrong in thinking you've found something.
Regardless if you feel your the greatest human on
earth or your just an ordinary joe, the truth still
doesn't change. You got nothing to offer extrodinary
or plain.

One goes with the flow, without going anywhere. Time
appears to move, going no where ahead. Space appears
to unfold endlessly, it doesn't. It's quite shocking,
but nothing avoidable.

You touch on it, dance around it in every sentence,
yet it's still there. This moment, pure illusion,
timeless, without begining, without ending, without "
".

Your safe, it's comfy to be in the happy place, thats
fine, enjoy. We don't choose, we are conditioned by
the appearance. All is unseperated and empty. It's not
depressing, it's not happy, it's the middle way.

Someone smacks us and we move. Someone hugs us and we
are moved, it's all playing off of all, endlessly,
begininlessly.

To think, one mine as well forget. To not think, one
mine as well avoid. No one's reaching, theres nothing
to grasp, that doesn't feel good. So we reach grab
hold of something and it feels good to have that grasp
returned. If we get beat up enough, like you, we
search for our "source" for stability and get comfy in
it. So comfy in fact, we don't think any other has it
and we need to teach it.

We all ride the same wave. To say hey buddy you just
don't get it, is as false as saying hey, your the
greatest. Simple play being played out, ad naseum.

You don't have "it" ganga, I don't have "it"... I am
"it", you are "it" and thats it. All is, as is.

If your having a hard time understanding "it". Picture
yourself standing a thousand miles up with no edge in
sight. How would you ever know you were above
anything? It's like trying to find yourself, without a
locale. I am "it", now where did I put "it"? By all
means though, keep looking ;)

Peace and Love

__________________________________________________
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--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@s...>
wrote:
> It was still Dan's generous description.
>
> Still enjoying life,
>
> Jeff

Correct.  It was Dan's observation that there are those who promote
themselves as being beyond identity via the agency of a self-constructed
identity termed the "happy meditator," an identity that many of these
"happy meditators" either refuse to see or cannot see in themselves.

nothing

nothing

nothing

and that's all I hear silence saying...

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jodyrrr"
<jodyrrr@y...> wrote:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
<jeff@s...> wrote:
> > It was still Dan's generous description.
> >
> > Still enjoying life,
> >
> > Jeff
>
> Correct.  It was Dan's observation that there are those who promote
> themselves as being beyond identity via the agency of a self-constructed
> identity termed the "happy meditator," an identity that many of these
> "happy meditators" either refuse to see or cannot see in themselves.

Termed by Dan, any way you cut it.

Laughing my arse off!

--- jodyrrr <jodyrrr@...> wrote:
> nothing
>
> nothing
>
> nothing
>
> and that's all I hear silence saying...
>
>


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