Hello fellow yogis and yoginis ,

I am a Meditation Master from India and I am in USA to speak in one of the
yogatherapy conferences . I conduct a workshop on a very scientific meditation
technique by which we can tap into the cosmic energy and heal our bodies of any
health problems. I would like to share this practise with anyone who is
interested to learn this. Practise this to help you experience the Turiya and
Samadhi state . My web site is

www.subbuji.com

Namaste ,

Subbuji

no, I just thought I'd briefly mention the self-gratifying nonsense that is
being passed off as enlightenment

it's the best that many can do, and many will even believe it's true

probably why the Buddha simply said, "I am awake," and never claimed some
hogwash status as "enlightened," or having had a wonderful tingly "enlightenment
experience."

he's laughing his ass off somewhere (nowhere, everywhere) at all the pompous
nonsense

-- dan --

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@...>
wrote:
>
> Must have been the Thanksgiving schrooms.
>
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dan330033" <dan330033@>
wrote:
> >
> > You appear to me to be talking about a self-induced hallucination as if it
were enlightenment.
> >
> > From my point of view, that's one of the troubles with the word
"enlightenment."
> >
> > It conjures up ideas about mystical experiences, wonderful blissful feelings
that someone enjoys.
> >
> > As a result of such ideas, people often decide that they are enlightened
because they've had some kind of wonderful, blissful spiritual experience.
> >
> > So enlightenment now has become a gratification for a self, rather than the
end of self, which has nothing to do with having a preferable experience.
> >
> > Maybe this is why the Buddha chose the term nirvana, which refers to
cessation, the ending of the flame of self, of wanting to have.
> >
> > It has nothing to do with generating images of desirable experiences that a
self would want.
> >
> > Your humble servant,
> >
> >  - Dan -
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Enlightenment is like a
> > > fully satisfying meal.
> > >
> > > To speak of it in this
> > > manner is to bask in the
> > > gratitude and joy of it.
> > >
> > > Enlightenment is always
> > > present as an undercurrent
> > > once we have partaken
> > > of the meal, but basking
> > > is a time of excluding
> > > everything else and letting
> > > bliss completely...
> > > completely..take over.
> > >
> > > Every cell in our body
> > > tingles with blissful
> > > sensations - from the
> > > moment our taste buds
> > > awaken. Every cell from
> > > our olfactory factory
> > > to our blissful belly button
> > > comes alive to a whole
> > > new way of being in
> > > the world (but at the
> > > first bite, no longer
> > > of the world).
> > >
> > > And the tingling never
> > > stops and the new way
> > > of perceiving reality
> > > as new every moment
> > > immediately becomes
> > > a permanent wave of
> > > blissful being in the
> > > world - as if entirely
> > > alive and awakened to
> > > who we truly are, for
> > > the very first time.
> > >
> > > This Enlightened Love
> > > that we experience in
> > > The Enlightened Eatery
> > > at first bite tosses
> > > us into an ocean of
> > > bouncing bliss on an
> > > endless wave of delicious
> > > joy and gratitude.
> > >
> > > Some say that the joy
> > > is in the journey, but
> > > that's like saying we
> > > are fully satisfied after
> > > ordering from the eatery's
> > > menu. The joy is in the
> > > consuming (or more accurately,
> > > being consumed, in the
> > > experience).
> > >
> > > The joy unspeakable (beyond
> > > anything words can describe)
> > > truly begins with the very
> > > first bite - the moment the...
> > >
> > > (let's use a typical
> > > Thanksgiving menu)
> > >
> > > savory sweet onion casserole
> > > enlightens our taste buds.
> > >
> > > The comfort continues to take
> > > us - as we taste the warm mashed
> > > potatoes - up on a drifting cloud
> > > of fluffy white wonderment.
> > >
> > > A sparkle of heavenly light
> > > ignites as we bite into the
> > > tart cranberry sauce, and we
> > > know we have merged with the
> > > universal light-being. Not
> > > one. Not two. Just wisdom's
> > > light.
> > >
> > > And so the meal goes, like
> > > a meditation of taste sensations
> > > that brought a sudden rush of
> > > new wisdom and understanding.
> > >
> > > We now know the language of
> > > the heart, and the depth of
> > > primary meaning within the
> > > chambers of The Mystic Heart.
> > >
> > > The celebration never ends,
> > > and The Enlightenment Eatery
> > > never closes.
> > >
> > > Dessert, anyone.
> > >
> > > One Love,
> > >
> > > Jeff
> > >
> >
>

Agree with your final
comment.

Are you a Jungian scholar?
Ever reflect on projection?

Your pseudo-jnana response
is typical of someone who
had a spontaneous unitive
experience and was quickly
hoodwinked by the ego into
leaving before the true
wisdom of light show...

and therefore find reference
to 'unbounded, unlimited
happiness' (words attributed
to Buddha) 'repugnant' (a word
you used in a private email
to me several years ago).

Gautama disappeared, the
former self merging into
the ocean of 'emptiness
that is not nothing' to
emerge as Buddha. His words
were paraphrased as 'came
out of dark ignorance
into the light'.

Your tingly daytripper,

Jeff

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dan330033" <dan330033@...>
wrote:
>
> no, I just thought I'd briefly mention the self-gratifying nonsense that is
being passed off as enlightenment
>
> it's the best that many can do, and many will even believe it's true
>
> probably why the Buddha simply said, "I am awake," and never claimed some
hogwash status as "enlightened," or having had a wonderful tingly "enlightenment
experience."
>
> he's laughing his ass off somewhere (nowhere, everywhere) at all the pompous
nonsense
>
> -- dan --
>
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@>
wrote:
> >
> > Must have been the Thanksgiving schrooms.
> >
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dan330033" <dan330033@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > You appear to me to be talking about a self-induced hallucination as if it
were enlightenment.
> > >
> > > From my point of view, that's one of the troubles with the word
"enlightenment."
> > >
> > > It conjures up ideas about mystical experiences, wonderful blissful
feelings that someone enjoys.
> > >
> > > As a result of such ideas, people often decide that they are enlightened
because they've had some kind of wonderful, blissful spiritual experience.
> > >
> > > So enlightenment now has become a gratification for a self, rather than
the end of self, which has nothing to do with having a preferable experience.
> > >
> > > Maybe this is why the Buddha chose the term nirvana, which refers to
cessation, the ending of the flame of self, of wanting to have.
> > >
> > > It has nothing to do with generating images of desirable experiences that
a self would want.
> > >
> > > Your humble servant,
> > >
> > >  - Dan -
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Enlightenment is like a
> > > > fully satisfying meal.
> > > >
> > > > To speak of it in this
> > > > manner is to bask in the
> > > > gratitude and joy of it.
> > > >
> > > > Enlightenment is always
> > > > present as an undercurrent
> > > > once we have partaken
> > > > of the meal, but basking
> > > > is a time of excluding
> > > > everything else and letting
> > > > bliss completely...
> > > > completely..take over.
> > > >
> > > > Every cell in our body
> > > > tingles with blissful
> > > > sensations - from the
> > > > moment our taste buds
> > > > awaken. Every cell from
> > > > our olfactory factory
> > > > to our blissful belly button
> > > > comes alive to a whole
> > > > new way of being in
> > > > the world (but at the
> > > > first bite, no longer
> > > > of the world).
> > > >
> > > > And the tingling never
> > > > stops and the new way
> > > > of perceiving reality
> > > > as new every moment
> > > > immediately becomes
> > > > a permanent wave of
> > > > blissful being in the
> > > > world - as if entirely
> > > > alive and awakened to
> > > > who we truly are, for
> > > > the very first time.
> > > >
> > > > This Enlightened Love
> > > > that we experience in
> > > > The Enlightened Eatery
> > > > at first bite tosses
> > > > us into an ocean of
> > > > bouncing bliss on an
> > > > endless wave of delicious
> > > > joy and gratitude.
> > > >
> > > > Some say that the joy
> > > > is in the journey, but
> > > > that's like saying we
> > > > are fully satisfied after
> > > > ordering from the eatery's
> > > > menu. The joy is in the
> > > > consuming (or more accurately,
> > > > being consumed, in the
> > > > experience).
> > > >
> > > > The joy unspeakable (beyond
> > > > anything words can describe)
> > > > truly begins with the very
> > > > first bite - the moment the...
> > > >
> > > > (let's use a typical
> > > > Thanksgiving menu)
> > > >
> > > > savory sweet onion casserole
> > > > enlightens our taste buds.
> > > >
> > > > The comfort continues to take
> > > > us - as we taste the warm mashed
> > > > potatoes - up on a drifting cloud
> > > > of fluffy white wonderment.
> > > >
> > > > A sparkle of heavenly light
> > > > ignites as we bite into the
> > > > tart cranberry sauce, and we
> > > > know we have merged with the
> > > > universal light-being. Not
> > > > one. Not two. Just wisdom's
> > > > light.
> > > >
> > > > And so the meal goes, like
> > > > a meditation of taste sensations
> > > > that brought a sudden rush of
> > > > new wisdom and understanding.
> > > >
> > > > We now know the language of
> > > > the heart, and the depth of
> > > > primary meaning within the
> > > > chambers of The Mystic Heart.
> > > >
> > > > The celebration never ends,
> > > > and The Enlightenment Eatery
> > > > never closes.
> > > >
> > > > Dessert, anyone.
> > > >
> > > > One Love,
> > > >
> > > > Jeff
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Defensiveness speaks to the self-investment in being seen as "enlightened."

As if words on a computer screen could take that away from you.

It is that very "you" that is not, when *awake* is.

Self-justifying "comebacks" and "ripostes" to keep an image, as if being seen a
certain way by others has anything to do with being awake.

Laughter is --

-- Dan

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@...>
wrote:
>
> Agree with your final
> comment.
>
> Are you a Jungian scholar?
> Ever reflect on projection?
>
> Your pseudo-jnana response
> is typical of someone who
> had a spontaneous unitive
> experience and was quickly
> hoodwinked by the ego into
> leaving before the true
> wisdom of light show...
>
> and therefore find reference
> to 'unbounded, unlimited
> happiness' (words attributed
> to Buddha) 'repugnant' (a word
> you used in a private email
> to me several years ago).
>
> Gautama disappeared, the
> former self merging into
> the ocean of 'emptiness
> that is not nothing' to
> emerge as Buddha. His words
> were paraphrased as 'came
> out of dark ignorance
> into the light'.
>
> Your tingly daytripper,
>
> Jeff
>
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dan330033" <dan330033@>
wrote:
> >
> > no, I just thought I'd briefly mention the self-gratifying nonsense that is
being passed off as enlightenment
> >
> > it's the best that many can do, and many will even believe it's true
> >
> > probably why the Buddha simply said, "I am awake," and never claimed some
hogwash status as "enlightened," or having had a wonderful tingly "enlightenment
experience."
> >
> > he's laughing his ass off somewhere (nowhere, everywhere) at all the pompous
nonsense
> >
> > -- dan --
> >
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Must have been the Thanksgiving schrooms.
> > >
> > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "dan330033"
<dan330033@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > You appear to me to be talking about a self-induced hallucination as if
it were enlightenment.
> > > >
> > > > From my point of view, that's one of the troubles with the word
"enlightenment."
> > > >
> > > > It conjures up ideas about mystical experiences, wonderful blissful
feelings that someone enjoys.
> > > >
> > > > As a result of such ideas, people often decide that they are enlightened
because they've had some kind of wonderful, blissful spiritual experience.
> > > >
> > > > So enlightenment now has become a gratification for a self, rather than
the end of self, which has nothing to do with having a preferable experience.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe this is why the Buddha chose the term nirvana, which refers to
cessation, the ending of the flame of self, of wanting to have.
> > > >
> > > > It has nothing to do with generating images of desirable experiences
that a self would want.
> > > >
> > > > Your humble servant,
> > > >
> > > >  - Dan -
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Enlightenment is like a
> > > > > fully satisfying meal.
> > > > >
> > > > > To speak of it in this
> > > > > manner is to bask in the
> > > > > gratitude and joy of it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Enlightenment is always
> > > > > present as an undercurrent
> > > > > once we have partaken
> > > > > of the meal, but basking
> > > > > is a time of excluding
> > > > > everything else and letting
> > > > > bliss completely...
> > > > > completely..take over.
> > > > >
> > > > > Every cell in our body
> > > > > tingles with blissful
> > > > > sensations - from the
> > > > > moment our taste buds
> > > > > awaken. Every cell from
> > > > > our olfactory factory
> > > > > to our blissful belly button
> > > > > comes alive to a whole
> > > > > new way of being in
> > > > > the world (but at the
> > > > > first bite, no longer
> > > > > of the world).
> > > > >
> > > > > And the tingling never
> > > > > stops and the new way
> > > > > of perceiving reality
> > > > > as new every moment
> > > > > immediately becomes
> > > > > a permanent wave of
> > > > > blissful being in the
> > > > > world - as if entirely
> > > > > alive and awakened to
> > > > > who we truly are, for
> > > > > the very first time.
> > > > >
> > > > > This Enlightened Love
> > > > > that we experience in
> > > > > The Enlightened Eatery
> > > > > at first bite tosses
> > > > > us into an ocean of
> > > > > bouncing bliss on an
> > > > > endless wave of delicious
> > > > > joy and gratitude.
> > > > >
> > > > > Some say that the joy
> > > > > is in the journey, but
> > > > > that's like saying we
> > > > > are fully satisfied after
> > > > > ordering from the eatery's
> > > > > menu. The joy is in the
> > > > > consuming (or more accurately,
> > > > > being consumed, in the
> > > > > experience).
> > > > >
> > > > > The joy unspeakable (beyond
> > > > > anything words can describe)
> > > > > truly begins with the very
> > > > > first bite - the moment the...
> > > > >
> > > > > (let's use a typical
> > > > > Thanksgiving menu)
> > > > >
> > > > > savory sweet onion casserole
> > > > > enlightens our taste buds.
> > > > >
> > > > > The comfort continues to take
> > > > > us - as we taste the warm mashed
> > > > > potatoes - up on a drifting cloud
> > > > > of fluffy white wonderment.
> > > > >
> > > > > A sparkle of heavenly light
> > > > > ignites as we bite into the
> > > > > tart cranberry sauce, and we
> > > > > know we have merged with the
> > > > > universal light-being. Not
> > > > > one. Not two. Just wisdom's
> > > > > light.
> > > > >
> > > > > And so the meal goes, like
> > > > > a meditation of taste sensations
> > > > > that brought a sudden rush of
> > > > > new wisdom and understanding.
> > > > >
> > > > > We now know the language of
> > > > > the heart, and the depth of
> > > > > primary meaning within the
> > > > > chambers of The Mystic Heart.
> > > > >
> > > > > The celebration never ends,
> > > > > and The Enlightenment Eatery
> > > > > never closes.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dessert, anyone.
> > > > >
> > > > > One Love,
> > > > >
> > > > > Jeff
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

The Buddha explained nirvana as "the unconditioned" , "unborn," awareness that
is perfectly lucid due to the cessation of the production of volitional
self-formations. This is described by the Buddha as "deathlessness" (Pali: amata
or amaravati)

The Buddha discusses in the context of nirvana a kind of awareness described as:
without feature, without end, luminous all around.

Rather than being fascinated by spiritual experiences, awareness lets any
experiences go.  Being fascinated by some kind of enlightenment experience is
called "the stench of enlightenment" in Zen.  It is considered counterproductive
to opening to truth.

Experiences are transitory.  Fascination with experience is therefore an attempt
of the self to anchor.  Awareness without attachment is lucidity.

A good antidote to fascination with experiences of "enlightenment" is to be
aware of their transitory nature, and to be aware that all of one's experiences
are gone upon one's death.

Zen Master Hakuin credited his awareness of death's certainty with setting him
on the path to awakening. Pondering the torments of hell as a child filled him
with dread and aroused a determined search for liberation. Zen Master Dogen's
quest too, was inspired by a deep awareness of death while still in childhood.
Watching the rising smoke of incense at his mother's funeral when he was only
eight years old, he resolved to enter monastic life. As a teacher, Dogen often
asserted that the knowledge of impermanence was the beginning of practice.

Don't be afraid to come face to face with your own demise.

And if you are afraid, don't deny that fear by attaching to the notion of having
had an enlightenment experience.

Instead, be the fear.

It is humbling, but opening.

Awakeness is humility.

The meek shall inherit the wind of no-thingness, which is to be awake.

It is one's death that reveals the unborn, uncreated, unconditional truth at the
heart of one's being.

This is *awake* -- not a self-gratifying experience.


  -- D --

"Sometimes he appears to be a Fool, sometimes a wise man. Sometimes he seems
splendid as a king, sometimes feeble-minded. Sometimes he is calm and silent.
Sometimes he draws men to him. Sometimes people honor him greatly, sometimes
they insult him. Sometimes they ignore him." Sri Shankara goes on: "The ignorant
see the body of a knower of Brahman and identify him with it. Actually he is
free from the body and every other kind of bondage. To him the body is merely a
shadow."

From a Zen talk posted at:

http://community.zen-sangha.org/?tag=bokusan

When you reach this point of "no stink of enlightenment" where there is no
trace, you vow with great determination to let the absence of enlightenment
continue long, long, long like a single rail of iron for myriad miles. This is
Great Practice that encompasses the entire future. - Bokusan

As the old saying goes, "Zen is like soap. First we wash with it and then we
wash it off."


Bokusan

http://www.intuition.org/txt/shinzen.htm

MISHLOVE: One of the terms that has often stuck in my mind -- I think it comes
from the Zen tradition -- with regard to beginners in the meditation practice,
is a phrase called, "the stink of enlightenment."

YOUNG: Yes, that's a pretty advanced topic. When you have meditated for a long
time, you no longer carry with you the overt qualities of religiosity. Very
often you've gone beyond that. You may know what miso is; I don't know if
everybody that will hear this program knows what that is.

MISHLOVE: Miso is made from soybeans.

YOUNG: It's a soybean product, and it's very, very smelly. It has a distinctive
odor. But in Japan they say that the highest-quality miso does not smell of
miso, and the highest-quality enlightenment does not smell of enlightenment.

Sandeep -

Indeed.

Any localization of experience is maya, is illusory.

And this illusion results from the no-thing that has no qualities, but that
therefore is infinite possible possibilities.

Infinite possible possibilities, include the possibility of imagined (imaged)
space-time experience.

Thus, the emergence of this imagined (imaged) conversation we're having.

Which involves contrast, yin-yang, up-down, here-there.

And we have infinite versions of it.

And none of it occupies any actual space and time.

Yet the desire or intent to have continuity in time-space also occurs as an
imagined possibility.  As the "investment" and "identity" that you discussed.

And this intent, too, is understood as a momentary appearance, an imagined
localization, that never really is strung together sequentially to create an
entity.

So, nothing has happened.

And even this nothing, not.

- D -



--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sandeep chatterjee
<sandeep1960@...> wrote:
>
> Jeff,
>
> In "unbounded, unlimited happiness", in the absence of the contrast, there is
actually nothing as happiness.
>
> And hence no experience of this  "unbounded, unlimited happiness".
>
> In unbounded, unlimited chaos, there is nothing as chaos to be experienced.
>
> In unbounded, unlimited bliss, there is nothing as bliss to be experienced.
>
> An experience is always the experience of the contrast.
>
> That which contains and is both the "contrastings".......can it ever be an
experience, which can be noted, observed and thus described, averred and
defended?
>
> That which can be noted, observed, thus described, averred and defended is
mere baloney of thought.
>
> Yes thought invest in itself and this investment is the sense of one's own
identity.
>
> See through all that crap and be done with it, Jeff.
>
>
> Now coming to the dude under the Bodhi Tree.
>
> After the dude moved on...........there were close to 33 different schools of
Buddhist thought all of which were claiming to be the true representative of
what Buddha spoke, what Buddha meant when he spoke et al.
>
> On such hoopla........ is the investment and the stake which defines one's
sense of identity.
>
> Jeff, there has never been any dark ignorance to emerge into light.
>
>
>
> Yes, such bromides are espoused...... continues to be
espoused..........because unless something as "Eternal Light", "Total Bliss",
"Unbounded unlimited happiness", "satisfying meal" etc etc......
>
> .......is posited...........how can you build an organization, how can you
develop a following?
>
> Peddled hope and the peddling of the exclusive handle on the means to that
hope...
> ...is the basic tenet of any con-game.
>
> So has terms like bliss never been used?
>
> It has............but the usage of a term like bliss has been used to point to
the absence of pain/grief/suffering......not to give an objective for the
self/mind to now chase.
>
>
>
> SatChitAnand...........the usage of the word Sat(Truth)to point to the absence
of the False.......an absence in which even the term Sat is erased.
>
> Why is Sat erased?
>
> In the absence of the contrasting Falsity.........what Truth(Absolute,
Relative, Eternal, Primordial etc etc)......what Truth can exist?
>
> Chit (Consciousness) to point to the absence of un-consciousness......which in
fact demolishes Chit itself.
>
> Anand(Joy) to point to the absence of sorrow........not positing that Anand is
to be chased.
>
> Since SatChitAnand itself became the peddled hope,(just like what you appear
to be doing) various dudes, including the dude under Bodhi.........negated even
this description.
>
>
> Buddha remained silent to the question what next after Nirvan...
>
> .....pointing by that very silence.......that at Nirvana........there is
neither a questioner...... nor a recepient of any answer.
>
> Neither an affirmer of any experience, nor a negator of any experience.
>
>
>
> But the hoping mind/self can convert anything into a hope to be chased.
>
> Silence was now the holy grail to be chased and there were/are enough people
offering techniques, methods to reach/experience and then propound the
description of the experience of silence.
>
>  
> That which is neither silence nor is it the absence of silence.....
>
> .....cannot be formulated by the mind/self/entity into an icon of hope and
thus chased.
>
> Or even conclude that "it" has been achieved and that such and such is what
"it" is
>
>  and this is how "it" can be captured into the realm of experience.
>
>
>
> In fact the very referencing........ let alone the description of the
reference....
>
> .... is a hoopla within this display of what would it be like, if something
could ever be.
>
>
>  
>
>
> --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
>
> From: Jeff Belyea <jeff@...>
> Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: The Enlightened Eatery Simile
> To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 2:46 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       Agree with your final
>
> comment.
>
>
>
> Are you a Jungian scholar?
>
> Ever reflect on projection?
>
>
>
> Your pseudo-jnana response
>
> is typical of someone who
>
> had a spontaneous unitive
>
> experience and was quickly
>
> hoodwinked by the ego into
>
> leaving before the true
>
> wisdom of light show...
>
>
>
> and therefore find reference
>
> to 'unbounded, unlimited
>
> happiness' (words attributed
>
> to Buddha) 'repugnant' (a word
>
> you used in a private email
>
> to me several years ago).
>
>
>
> Gautama disappeared, the
>
> former self merging into
>
> the ocean of 'emptiness
>
> that is not nothing' to
>
> emerge as Buddha. His words
>
> were paraphrased as 'came
>
> out of dark ignorance
>
> into the light'.
>
>
>
> Your tingly daytripper,
>
>
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
> --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "dan330033" <dan330033@
..> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > no, I just thought I'd briefly mention the self-gratifying nonsense that is
being passed off as enlightenment
>
> >
>
> > it's the best that many can do, and many will even believe it's true
>
> >
>
> > probably why the Buddha simply said, "I am awake," and never claimed some
hogwash status as "enlightened, " or having had a wonderful tingly
"enlightenment experience."
>
> >
>
> > he's laughing his ass off somewhere (nowhere, everywhere) at all the pompous
nonsense
>
> >
>
> > -- dan --
>
> >
>
> > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@>
wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > Must have been the Thanksgiving schrooms.
>
> > >
>
> > > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "dan330033"
<dan330033@> wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > You appear to me to be talking about a self-induced hallucination as if
it were enlightenment.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > From my point of view, that's one of the troubles with the word
"enlightenment. "
>
> > > >
>
> > > > It conjures up ideas about mystical experiences, wonderful blissful
feelings that someone enjoys.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > As a result of such ideas, people often decide that they are enlightened
because they've had some kind of wonderful, blissful spiritual experience.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > So enlightenment now has become a gratification for a self, rather than
the end of self, which has nothing to do with having a preferable experience.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Maybe this is why the Buddha chose the term nirvana, which refers to
cessation, the ending of the flame of self, of wanting to have.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > It has nothing to do with generating images of desirable experiences
that a self would want.
>
> > > >
>
> > > > Your humble servant,
>
> > > >
>
> > > >  - Dan -
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > > > --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
<jeff@> wrote:
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Enlightenment is like a
>
> > > > > fully satisfying meal.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > To speak of it in this
>
> > > > > manner is to bask in the
>
> > > > > gratitude and joy of it.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Enlightenment is always
>
> > > > > present as an undercurrent
>
> > > > > once we have partaken
>
> > > > > of the meal, but basking
>
> > > > > is a time of excluding
>
> > > > > everything else and letting
>
> > > > > bliss completely.. .
>
> > > > > completely.. take over.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Every cell in our body
>
> > > > > tingles with blissful
>
> > > > > sensations - from the
>
> > > > > moment our taste buds
>
> > > > > awaken. Every cell from
>
> > > > > our olfactory factory
>
> > > > > to our blissful belly button
>
> > > > > comes alive to a whole
>
> > > > > new way of being in
>
> > > > > the world (but at the
>
> > > > > first bite, no longer
>
> > > > > of the world).
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > And the tingling never
>
> > > > > stops and the new way
>
> > > > > of perceiving reality
>
> > > > > as new every moment
>
> > > > > immediately becomes
>
> > > > > a permanent wave of
>
> > > > > blissful being in the
>
> > > > > world - as if entirely
>
> > > > > alive and awakened to
>
> > > > > who we truly are, for
>
> > > > > the very first time.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > This Enlightened Love
>
> > > > > that we experience in
>
> > > > > The Enlightened Eatery
>
> > > > > at first bite tosses
>
> > > > > us into an ocean of
>
> > > > > bouncing bliss on an
>
> > > > > endless wave of delicious
>
> > > > > joy and gratitude.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Some say that the joy
>
> > > > > is in the journey, but
>
> > > > > that's like saying we
>
> > > > > are fully satisfied after
>
> > > > > ordering from the eatery's
>
> > > > > menu. The joy is in the
>
> > > > > consuming (or more accurately,
>
> > > > > being consumed, in the
>
> > > > > experience).
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > The joy unspeakable (beyond
>
> > > > > anything words can describe)
>
> > > > > truly begins with the very
>
> > > > > first bite - the moment the...
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > (let's use a typical
>
> > > > > Thanksgiving menu)
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > savory sweet onion casserole
>
> > > > > enlightens our taste buds.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > The comfort continues to take
>
> > > > > us - as we taste the warm mashed
>
> > > > > potatoes - up on a drifting cloud
>
> > > > > of fluffy white wonderment.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > A sparkle of heavenly light
>
> > > > > ignites as we bite into the
>
> > > > > tart cranberry sauce, and we
>
> > > > > know we have merged with the
>
> > > > > universal light-being. Not
>
> > > > > one. Not two. Just wisdom's
>
> > > > > light.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > And so the meal goes, like
>
> > > > > a meditation of taste sensations
>
> > > > > that brought a sudden rush of
>
> > > > > new wisdom and understanding.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > We now know the language of
>
> > > > > the heart, and the depth of
>
> > > > > primary meaning within the
>
> > > > > chambers of The Mystic Heart.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > The celebration never ends,
>
> > > > > and The Enlightenment Eatery
>
> > > > > never closes.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Dessert, anyone.
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > One Love,
>
> > > > >
>
> > > > > Jeff
>
> > > > >
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>

You may or may not
have noticed that
there is a cruise
control switch on
the instrument panel
of your consciousness.

We once used it
all the time, when
we enjoyed the
lightness of spirit
as young children.

Then as we were
socially disciplined
we gradually forgot
about the cruise
control switch.

And accepted that
we must work everything
out in our rational,
linear process.

The barrage of our
own internal chatter
kept this calculating
consciousness mode
on nearly constant 'On'.

But in a reflective
moment that flashed
briefly through the
stress and strain of
daily living, an
intuitive stirring
hinted at something
more.

As we yearned for relief
from stress, and for peace
of mind and contentment,
the stirring became
more insistent.

This stirring instilled
a quest, and set us out
on a search for the
elusive 'something more'.

Unfortunately, the
search itself created
its own stress and
that kept us scanning
without noticing or
recognizing the cruise
control switch.

Fortunately, at the
point of seemingly
abandoning our search
and entering a quiet
awareness, the fog
of forgetfulness
began to clear.

And one day, while
meditating, watching
a sunrise, looking
in someone's eyes, or
any number of settings
(which are all meditative
in some sense)...

an experience of pure
intuitive consciousness
revealed the long forgotten
cruise control switch.

With one flick of this
switch, new lights in
our consciousness came
on, and we became an
entirely new (renewed)
person who now lives by
revelation and intuition.

It's like being on
cruise control - in
which we are actively
calm and calmly active,
quietly alert, and
productive with precision.

We have recovered the
lightness of being of
a child, from an adult
perspective. All self-
consciousness has given
way to Self-Realization.

This is holistic (holy
for theists) nondual
living...

enlightenment, even.

One Love, One Light,

Jeff

Ever notice how often
we hear that an epiphany
came to someone in the
shower?

Solutions to problems,
forgotten names, and
breakthrough creative
concepts are often
reported to have
popped into the
mind of the reporter,
while in the shower.

What is it about this
particular venue that
precipitates these
sudden rushes of recall,
wisdom, creativity
and inspiration?

Well, in the course
of an ordinary day, we
find ourselves reviewing
the past, anticipating
possible futures and
in general looking
for some sort of
improvement or change,
but...

while in the shower,
with a stream of warm
refreshing water
coursing over our
bodies, the sudsy
fun of scrubbing clean
(and daringly blasting
out the lyrics of a
familiar song) we are
'in the moment' without
any wish to change.

As a result, our internal
chatter quiets and we
slip into an effortless
meditative calm - and
'eureka' a sudden rush
of wisdom thunderbolts in
with a temporal lobe tingle.

Showered,

Jeff

So, once having been
fully-satisfied with
the mystic nourishment
served at The Enlightened
Eatery, just bask in
the joy of the eternal
bliss that has become
the undercurrent of
your awareness.

The after-taste of
the nectar will never
fade. Enjoy this as
a new dimension
in your meditation.

And pay no attention
to the pedestrian
pompous reviewers who
have never partaken
of the same nourishment.

Smiling Jeff

From the moment of
our birth, we are
showered with love.

That never stops.
We just forget the
Source of Love.

Recalling the Source
of Love is like
a rebirth.

Meditation is known
to be one of the
delivery rooms.

The Mystic Heart
Meditation asks you
to quiet the internal
chatter by focusing
on the flow of your
breathing and listen
for the wisdom whisper
from the heart.

One Love,

Jeff
(Cross-posted from
The Mystic Path group)

At the risk of appearing
a post hog, a couple of
points in response to
Sandeep and Dan -

(No supporting cast of
quotes)

About contrast as the
way to know:

It's the way we learn
and process with the
linear, rational faculties,
but with enlightened
awakening,a "Knowing"
without contrast is
revealed. The step
into pure being is a
step into the bliss
of unconditional
acceptance of every
circumstance and event
as 'perfect'. This is
life lived by intuition,
inspiration and revelation.


About the localized
experience as illusory:

Enlightenment and the
joy it brings is not
localized. The self is
not the experiencer of
enlightened awakening,
the self dissolves into
the One of absolute
perfection of Self-
Realization.

Reference to this
Self-Realization of Oneness
necessarily uses the
dualistic vehicle of
language, and speaks
in the dualistic context of
relative reality, but those
who speak of enlightened
awakening authentically
speak in the language
of the heart.

The language of the heart
is not comprehended by
those who have not learned
it, and they hear the
report as coming from
ego and self-reference -
in error.

Meditation is the study
hall for learning the
language of the heart.

One Love,

Jeff

Convert Everything into Selfless Acts

"A slogan I have is: `no appointment, no disappointment.'
That doesn't mean that you should not make any
appointments, otherwise you would not be able to
go and get a haircut—but, make no appointments based
on your selfishness. Even taking a Yoga class or going
to a Yoga retreat should not be a selfish act. You are
going there to reform yourself, to grow, to serve
others—and that is a selfless act, because your ultimate
goal is to serve others. With that goal, you can eat,
you can sleep, you can live comfortably, you can study,
you can become an eminent doctor—not to hoard millions,
but to serve.  All the professions can be converted
into selfless acts.

"God bless you. OM Shanti, Shanti, Shanti."

For more by and about Swai Satchidananda:
http://yogaandpeace.org/

keep it comin', dude.
tks.

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@...>
wrote:
>
> At the risk of appearing
> a post hog, a couple of
> points in response to
> Sandeep and Dan -
>
> (No supporting cast of
> quotes)
>
> About contrast as the
> way to know:
>
> It's the way we learn
> and process with the
> linear, rational faculties,
> but with enlightened
> awakening,a "Knowing"
> without contrast is
> revealed. The step
> into pure being is a
> step into the bliss
> of unconditional
> acceptance of every
> circumstance and event
> as 'perfect'. This is
> life lived by intuition,
> inspiration and revelation.
>
>
> About the localized
> experience as illusory:
>
> Enlightenment and the
> joy it brings is not
> localized. The self is
> not the experiencer of
> enlightened awakening,
> the self dissolves into
> the One of absolute
> perfection of Self-
> Realization.
>
> Reference to this
> Self-Realization of Oneness
> necessarily uses the
> dualistic vehicle of
> language, and speaks
> in the dualistic context of
> relative reality, but those
> who speak of enlightened
> awakening authentically
> speak in the language
> of the heart.
>
> The language of the heart
> is not comprehended by
> those who have not learned
> it, and they hear the
> report as coming from
> ego and self-reference -
> in error.
>
> Meditation is the study
> hall for learning the
> language of the heart.
>
> One Love,
>
> Jeff
>

Why would a fella even care?

If enlightened, the question
would never come to mind.

"Enlightened are enlightened
about their delusions."  --Dogen

If self-deluded, the question
would never come to mind.

----------------------------

"Give me enough wine or
leave me alone."  --Rumi

God-intoxicated,

Jeff


--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay <bethjams9@...>
wrote:
>
> just a question?
> How does a fella know if he is enlightened and not in a self deluded?
>
> --- On Sat, 6/20/09, schatzman <pearboy@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: schatzman <pearboy@...>
> Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: The Lone Poster/Deep and Deeper
> To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 1:17 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> keep it comin', dude.
> tks.
>
> --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@>
wrote:
> >
> > At the risk of appearing
> > a post hog, a couple of
> > points in response to
> > Sandeep and Dan -
> >
> > (No supporting cast of
> > quotes)
> >
> > About contrast as the
> > way to know:
> >
> > It's the way we learn
> > and process with the
> > linear, rational faculties,
> > but with enlightened
> > awakening,a "Knowing"
> > without contrast is
> > revealed. The step
> > into pure being is a
> > step into the bliss
> > of unconditional
> > acceptance of every
> > circumstance and event
> > as 'perfect'. This is
> > life lived by intuition,
> > inspiration and revelation.
> >
> >
> > About the localized
> > experience as illusory:
> >
> > Enlightenment and the
> > joy it brings is not
> > localized. The self is
> > not the experiencer of
> > enlightened awakening,
> > the self dissolves into
> > the One of absolute
> > perfection of Self-
> > Realization.
> >
> > Reference to this
> > Self-Realization of Oneness
> > necessarily uses the
> > dualistic vehicle of
> > language, and speaks
> > in the dualistic context of
> > relative reality, but those
> > who speak of enlightened
> > awakening authentically
> > speak in the language
> > of the heart.
> >
> > The language of the heart
> > is not comprehended by
> > those who have not learned
> > it, and they hear the
> > report as coming from
> > ego and self-reference -
> > in error.
> >
> > Meditation is the study
> > hall for learning the
> > language of the heart.
> >
> > One Love,
> >
> > Jeff
> >
>

Because there is no other involved to seek validation from.

Nor is there any other that has ever been encountered.

The words and ideas generated in response to contacting others, the images
presented to and from others, the self that relates to others, have no relevance
this timeless all-moment.

  - D -



--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay <bethjams9@...>
wrote:
>
> just a question?
> How does a fella know if he is enlightened and not in a self deluded?
>
> --- On Sat, 6/20/09, schatzman <pearboy@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: schatzman <pearboy@...>
> Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: The Lone Poster/Deep and Deeper
> To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, June 20, 2009, 1:17 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> keep it comin', dude.
> tks.
>
> --- In meditationsocietyof america@yahoogro ups.com, "Jeff Belyea" <jeff@>
wrote:
> >
> > At the risk of appearing
> > a post hog, a couple of
> > points in response to
> > Sandeep and Dan -
> >
> > (No supporting cast of
> > quotes)
> >
> > About contrast as the
> > way to know:
> >
> > It's the way we learn
> > and process with the
> > linear, rational faculties,
> > but with enlightened
> > awakening,a "Knowing"
> > without contrast is
> > revealed. The step
> > into pure being is a
> > step into the bliss
> > of unconditional
> > acceptance of every
> > circumstance and event
> > as 'perfect'. This is
> > life lived by intuition,
> > inspiration and revelation.
> >
> >
> > About the localized
> > experience as illusory:
> >
> > Enlightenment and the
> > joy it brings is not
> > localized. The self is
> > not the experiencer of
> > enlightened awakening,
> > the self dissolves into
> > the One of absolute
> > perfection of Self-
> > Realization.
> >
> > Reference to this
> > Self-Realization of Oneness
> > necessarily uses the
> > dualistic vehicle of
> > language, and speaks
> > in the dualistic context of
> > relative reality, but those
> > who speak of enlightened
> > awakening authentically
> > speak in the language
> > of the heart.
> >
> > The language of the heart
> > is not comprehended by
> > those who have not learned
> > it, and they hear the
> > report as coming from
> > ego and self-reference -
> > in error.
> >
> > Meditation is the study
> > hall for learning the
> > language of the heart.
> >
> > One Love,
> >
> > Jeff
> >
>

sean tremblay <bethjams9@...> wrote:
>
> just a question?
> How does a fella know if he is enlightened and not in a self deluded?
>

If you can start the day without caffeine or pep pills,
If you can be cheerful, ignoring aches and pains,
If you can resist complaining and boring people with your troubles,
If you can eat the same food everyday and be grateful for it,
If you can understand when loved ones are too busy to give you time,
If you can overlook when people take things out
on you when, through no fault of yours, something goes wrong,
If you can take criticism and blame without resentment,
If you can face the world without lies and deceit,
If you can conquer tension without medical help,
If you can relax without liquor,
If you can sleep without the aid of drugs,

If you can do all these things, ..........

Then you're Enlightened ...
or more likely, you are the family dog...

At the risk of appearing
a post hog, a couple of
points in response to
Sandeep and Dan -

(No supporting cast of
quotes)

About contrast as the
way to know:

It's the way we learn
and process with the
linear, rational faculties,
but with enlightened
awakening,a "Knowing"
without contrast is
revealed.

The step
into pure being is a
step into the bliss
of unconditional
acceptance of every
circumstance and event
as 'perfect'.

This is
life lived by intuition,
inspiration and revelation.

About the localized
experience as illusory:

Enlightenment and the
joy it brings is not
localized. The self is
not the experiencer of
enlightened awakening,

the self dissolves into
the One of absolute
perfection of Self-
Realization.

Reference to this
Self-Realization of Oneness
necessarily uses the
dualistic vehicle of
language, and speaks
in the dualistic context of
relative reality,

but those
who speak of enlightened
awakening authentically
speak in the language
of the heart.

1

The language of the heart
is not comprehended by
those who have not learned
it,

and they hear the
report as coming from
ego and self-reference -
in error.

Meditation is the study
hall for learning the
language of the heart.

"You imposed limits to your true nature of infinite being,
then, you get displeased to be only a limited creature,
then you begin spiritual practices to transcend these nonexistent
limits.
"But if your practice itself implies the existence of these limits,
how could they allow you to transcend them?"

~~Ramana Maharshi
------

There's a line from Curly,
of The Three Stooges, that
at first sounds just funny
and silly:

"I'm thinking, but nothing's
happening."

At second glance, this is
the meditative state in
which a profound peace of
mind can be experienced.

When we go into quiet awareness,
we are attempting to settle
into a time of pure being without
the internal chatter (thinking).

If you have tried just simply
being quietly aware of where you
are in the present moment and
just noticing your environment
without internally narrating -

you've noticed that it only
takes a brief moment of that
quiet awareness for the body
to noticeably release a great
deal of tension. It seems that
when the mind if quiet, the
body is quiet and more relaxed.

This simple quiet awareness
can have a magical quality
to it - and with practice,
can be used as an effective
'tool' for stress relief,
focused attention, improved
listening, enhanced creativity,
improved inter-personal and
relationship skills, practical
goal achievement (like smoking
cessation and weight loss) and
even a better golf game.

As an example: Imagine a golfer
worried about their next shot
over a water hazard. If their
mind starts chattering they
will tighten up, but if they
allow the mind to go quiet,
their muscle tension will
relax and their natural
ability will take over.

So, for a little relaxing
refreshment, try to imagine
'thinking with nothing happening'
(which is, of course, not
thinking at all).

One Love,

Jeff

Could the placebo effect
produce an authentically
enlightened true guru?

What is more important,
the authenticity of the
guru or the authenticity
of the aspirant?

And can anyone answer these
questions authentically,
or only speculatively?

One Love,

Jeff

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sean tremblay <bethjams9@...>
wrote:
>
> from where i'm standing I wouldnt even try!
>
> --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Jeff Belyea <jeff@...>
> Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Placebo for Enlightenment?
> To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:47 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Could the placebo effect
> produce an authentically
> enlightened true guru?
>
> What is more important,
> the authenticity of the
> guru or the authenticity
> of the aspirant?
>
> And can anyone answer these
> questions authentically,
> or only speculatively?
>
> One Love,
>
> Jeff
>


Dear aspriant


      Very very good question after a long time this question is asked.

My experience and answer authentically is the apirant authenticity is the final
to reach the " * " stage.

      My guru may be siva (god itself). He is almost filled level. But if I dont
have aspirant , I wont get. I can say in another word to my level only I will
reach. Therefore aspirant authenticity is the ultimatum.

ofcourse a bad guru may lead me lower level. Here, my aspiration affected by the
guru view. There fore looking back in this contest also if i take my guru (bad)
through my aspiration I am get affected.

I authentically say each ones apiration lead him the level

Depend upon aspiration even each persons view differ.


Thank you

dhan


* Thats why a real guru will tell :you try, you identify, you realise.

Means you (your soul) realisation along with a stick of aspiration it is yours.

Hi Sandeep -

Thanks for your post.  Good points.

For similar reasons, in my opinion, the following statements were attributed to
Jesus:

"Observe the lilies of the field, and how they grow."

"For those who have ears to hear, let them hear."

"Many are called, few are chosen."

"Don't throw your pearls before [those who can't appreciate pearls]"


LOL,

  -- Dan



--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep <sandeep1960@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
>
> *"You imposed limits to your true nature of infinite being,
> then, you get displeased to be only a limited creature,
> then you begin spiritual practices to transcend these nonexistent
> limits.
>
> "But if your practice itself implies the existence of these limits,
> how could they allow you to transcend them?"
> *
> *~~Ramana Maharshi*
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------
>
>
> /*If Ramana was around today and muttered these lines, he would be
> accused of the famous Advaitic shuffle
> and denounced as a neo-Advaitin.
>
>
>
> How would practice allow a transcending of limits which it itself
> implies, in the first place.
>
> And yet practice(s) teem in phenomenality.
>
> Including the practice of self enquiry, as suggested by the same dude.
>
>
>
> The resolution of this seemingly paradox would be that practice,
> whatever be it's form and nature, whether Tantric processes, dualistic
> Bhakti, the various Zen-ic hoopla, Sufi dancing and whirling , the
> Hassidic rituals , self-enquiry.....the practice of denouncing all
> practices....
>
> ....are all complete in themselves ..... AS themselves.
>
>
> Nothing is a means to anything else even though there appears to be
> casual linkages between
> seemingly disparate aspects.
>
>
>
> If any and every aspect of phenomenality is complete in itself, .....
>
> .......then phenomenality as a whole is complete in itself.
>
>
> Moment to moment to moment.
>
>
>
> This is complete;
> That is complete;
> Out of completion, arose completion;
> And when completion arose;
> what it arose from, was still complete.
>
> */
>