V:
A potential destiny perhaps, but not a certain one.  The time-table
of the Great Feminine could very well cancel out the universe before
such a birthing of human beingness occurred, in which case humankind
would cease to exist.

From my observations, all meditation eventually leads to Heart-Mind,
and from Heart-Mind is uncovered the compassion of the Bodhisattva to
be dedicated to the liberation from suffering, and the cause of
suffering, for all sentient beings.  If such a destiny of truth was
certain, there would be no Bodhisattvas.  In other words, one could
say that no Bodhisattva is a guru, if a guru is defined as one who
has an enthusiasm for an eventuality that is is uncertain.  Of
course, an authentic Bodhisattva is not the least bit interested in
enlightenment.  Their interest is in bringing more light and love
into this reality, not enlightenment.

One way of bringing more light and love in, is to identify the false
as the false.

Eckhart Tolle said in 'The Power of Now', page 4, "we need to draw
our attention to what is false in us, for unless we learn to
recognize the false as the false, there can be no lasting
transformation, and you will always be drawn back into illusion, for
that is how the false perpetuates itself"   Many guru's actually
perpetuate the false.


Vicente





--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
<jeff@...> wrote:
>
> OK, agreed. Yet the consistent
> and universal set-you-free
> "truth", once known, brings
> with it the certain sense that
> awakening to truth is the destiny
> of humankind.
>
> Understanding this, even
> intellectually, without the
> direct experience of enlightenment,
> seems to be why many of the nondual
> (no separation) mindset feel
> that the "gurus", in their
> attunement to and enthusiasm
> for this eventuality,
> over-promise, and that we
> should just allow it to play
> out...rather than bemoan
> the fact that most people
> are not ready for it - today.
>
> As for the timetable,
> that's a different story.
> It seems that Mother Nature
> or Divine Mother moves at a
> very different pace than the
> impatience of one lifespan.
>
>
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jvmarco"
> <jvmarco@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Many claim to be dedicated to diverse spiritual realities and
personal
> > awakening. For most however, the brain, the ego, the pleasure
centers,
> > etc., do not want you fascinated with the idea of truth or waking
up.
> > Such a burning fascination would bring the demise of the brain,
the ego,
> > the pleasure centers, etc., as the personal thinking process
knows them.
> >
> > I agree that the truth will set you free, but to have a genuine,
burning
> > fascination with truth is very rare,...most people do not want the
> > truth, they want useless happiness, and thus its mate, useless
> > suffering. The realization of truth will bring the demise of
beliefs,
> > and the thinking patterns associated with those beliefs.
> >
> > Today's human community cannot handle the truth,...truth is too
profound
> > to be consciously included in the lives people seek.
> >
> > E = mc2 is a partial truth that many accept. Whereas mc2 < c is
the
> > fuller truth that most refuse to see; a truth in which everything
(that
> > means everything) can be understood through the cognition of that
simple
> > equation. All energy and mass is less than the speed of light.
People
> > however, cling to the idea of energy and mass as something real,
> > something to be worship like the religious superstititions of
their
> > ancestors. The truth is that energy and mass is not real, nor
does it
> > exist beyond the dream of separation. Energy is simply the motion
of
> > mass seeking a relationship with its source,...a relationship it
can
> > never have, because the condition of separation cannot merge with
the
> > unconditionality of source. Wholeness is beyond the sum of
opposites.
> > The sum of opposites is their cancellation.
> >
> > Every teaching of Buddhism points to the fuller truth of the
> > above,...likewise, the Fourth Way philosophy (enneagram) points
to the
> > above,...and Maya and Bön Cosmology also points to the above. Yet
> > even the adherents to those philosophies have not gone beyond
their
> > beliefs to see the truth. Most people, perhaps more than 99% of
the
> > world's population, are not conscious of even a single full
truth,...nor
> > do they want to.
> >
> > People do not want to understand that the quantum process applies
to
> > humans as well as sub-atomic particles. They do not want to know
that
> > there cannot be a present or instant in time. The often expressed
term
> > 'present time' is an oxymoron. Neither science, religion, nor New
Age
> > philosophy desires to move beyond its own theories,...to have a
> > renaissance like view of the patterns that weave our existence.
So even
> > though truth will set us free, few wish to let go of the desire of
> > useless happiness, that they cling to for their identity, and to
> > authentically embrace the truth. Most people do not want the "who
that
> > they think they are" to disappear. They desire to bring their
conditions
> > into the unconditional,...yet truth will never allow that to
occur.
> >
> > Vicente
> > author of mc2 < c
> > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1425136486
> > <http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1425136486>
> >
>

So,I think, now there will be focus on Patanjali's Yoga Sutras,the
smallest book of the greatest importance.
regards


--- In
meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
<jogeshwarmahanta@...> wrote:
>
> Oh! I forgot one very important aspect.
>
> In relation to God:
>
> Patanjal-Ishwara pranidhanadva(Or by devotion to God)
>
> Geeta-Sarba dharman parityajya mamekam sharanam braja(Abandon all
> and surrender to Me)-Lord Krishna
> regards
>
>
>
> --- In
> meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
> <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
> >
> > Sorry for the spelling mistake.I intended to write Madbhagavat
> Geeta.
> >
> > No.
> > The definitions of Yoga:
> >
> > Patnjali-Yogaschittavritti norodhah(Regulation of
> mind/procliviries).
> >
> > Geeta-Sdhyasidhyo samabhutwa samatwam yoga uchyate(Accepting
> success
> > and failure as the same)
> >
> > Objectives-Moksha.
> >
> > Patanjali-Attaining the purest conscience/Transcending time and
> > space.
> >
> > Geeta-Merger with Him/God/Almighty/The Braman.
> >
> > Approach:
> >
> > Patanjali-Continuous deconditioning and reconditioning.
> >
> > Geeta-Just witnessing the happenings in detached manner.
> >
> > regards
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> medit8ionsociety
> > <no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In
> > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
> > > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > No further views?
> > > > regards
> > > >
> > > Yo Sri Jogeshwarmahanta,
> > > I didn't realize that you were referring to
> > > the Bhagavad Gita, but now I am assuming you
> > > were, and that it was your unique spelling
> > > (Magbhagvat Geeta) that made me feel unable
> > > to reply. I don't see in any way that the
> > > 2 books as being "diametrically opposite.
> > > Actually, I feel they compliment each other
> > > perfectly. The Gita shares how one can best
> > > prepare to medtate and live a pure life that
> > > eliminates the distractions that hold one back
> > > from experiencing the bounty of treasures that
> > > meditation brings. And the Sutras are the
> > > perfect "how-to" book on meditation. Together
> > > they comprise the totality of all one
> > > needs to learn, and then do, to best unfold
> > > the flower of peace, wisdom and bliss that is
> > > within and is the birthright of all of humanity.
> > > Peace and Blessings,
> > > Bob
> > > > --- In
> > > >
meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
> > > > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Has any body gone through comparative reading and practice
> of
> > > > > Magbhagvat Geeta and Patanjali's Yoga Sutras? As I find
> > objectives
> > > > > of the two texts are diametrically opposite.
> > > > >
> > > > > From the practice point of view, I think, Yoga Sutras is a
> > better
> > > > > manual.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for this thread.
> > > > > regards
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > medit8ionsociety
> > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One of the most common emails the
> > > > > > Meditation Society of America gets
> > > > > > asks for advice on which books are
> > > > > > the best dealing with meditation.
> > > > > > We had several this week and also
> > > > > > received an email from the Divya
> > > > > > Jivan Newsletter that pointed to
> > > > > > one answer to this question. We'll
> > > > > > let these quotes speak for themselves:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and
> > > > > > reflace about how God created this
> > > > > > universe everything else seems so superfluous."
> > > > > > Albert Einstein
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita calls on humanity to
> > > > > > dedicate body, mind and soul
> > > > > > to pure duty and not to become mental
> > > > > > voluptuaries at the mercy of
> > > > > > random desires and undisciplined impulses."
> > > > > > Mahatma Gandhiji
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is the most systematic statement
> > > > > > of spiritualevolution of endowing value to mankind.
> > > > > > It is one of the most clear and comprehensive
> > > > > > summaries of perennial philosophy ever revealed;
> > > > > > hence its enduring value is subject not only to
> > > > > > India but to all of humanity."
> > > > > > Aldous Huxley
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is a true scripture of the
> > > > > > human race a living creation rather than a book,
> > > > > > with a new message for every age and a
> > > > > > new meaning for every civilization."
> > > > > > Sri Aurobindo
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "In the morning I bathe my intellect in the
> > > > > > stupendous and cosmogonal philosophy of the
> > > > > > Bhagavad-Gita, in comparison with which our modern
> > > > > > world and its literature seems puny and trivial."
> > > > > > Henry David Thoreau
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "The marvel of the Bhagavad-Gita is its truly
> > > > > > beautiful revelation of life's wisdom which
> > > > > > enables philosophy to blossom into religion."
> > > > > > Herman Hesse
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita deals essentially with the
> > > > > > spiritual foundation of human existence. It is
> > > > > > a call of action to meet the obligations and
> > > > > > duties of life; yet keeping in view the spiritual
> > > > > > nature and grander purpose of the universe."
> > > > > > Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad-Gita.
> > > > > > It was the first of books; it was as if an empire
> > > > > > spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy,
> > > > > > but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an
> > > > > > old intelligence which in another age and climate
> > > > > > had pondered and thus disposed of the same
> > > > > > questions which exercise us."
> > > > > > Ralph Waldo Emerson
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is an empire of thought
> > > > > > and in its philosophical teachings Krishna
> > > > > > has all the attributes of the full-fledged
> > > > > > montheistic deity and at the same time the
> > > > > > attributes of the Upanisadic absolute."
> > > > > > Ralph Waldo Emerson
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "In order to approach a creation as sublime
> > > > > > as the Bhagavad-Gita with full understanding
> > > > > > it is necessary to attune our soul to it." -
> > > > > > Rudolph Steiner
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is not seperate from the
> > > > > > Vaisnava philosophy and the Srimad Bhagavatam
> > > > > > fully reveals the true import of this doctrine
> > > > > > which is transmigation of the soul. On perusal
> > > > > > of the first chapter of Bhagavad-Gita one may
> > > > > > think that they are advised to engage in
> > > > > > warfare. When the second chapter has been read
> > > > > > it can be clearly understood that knowledge and
> > > > > > the soul is the ultimate goal to be
> > > > > > attained. On studying the third chapter it is
> > > > > > apparent that acts of righteousness are also of
> > > > > > high priority. If we continue and patiently
> > > > > > take the time to complete the Bhagavad-Gita and
> > > > > > try to ascertain the truth of its closing chapter
> > > > > > we can see that the ultimate conclusion
> > > > > > is to relinquish all the conceptualized ideas
> > > > > > of religion which we possess and fully surrender
> > > > > > directly unto the Supreme Lord."
> > > > > > Sri Swami Prabhupada
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "The secret of karma yoga which is to perform
> > > > > > actions without any fruitive desires is taught
> > > > > > by Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad-Gita."
> > > > > > Swami Vivekananda
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita was spoken by Lord Krishna to
> > > > > > reveal the science of devotion to God which is the
> > > > > > essence of all spiritual knowledge. The
> > > > > > Supreme Lord Krishnas primary purpose for descending
> > > > > > and incarnating is relieve the world of any demoniac
> > > > > > and negative, undesirable influences that are
> > > > > > opposed to spiritual development, yet
> > > > > > simultaneously it is His incomparable intention
> > > > > > to be perpetually within reach of all humanity."
> > > > > > Sri Ramanuja
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Nothing has ever arisen in my life, internal
> > > > > > or external, that the Gita has not made clear
> > > > > > and enabled me to deal with or understand."
> > > > > > Swami Nirmalananda Giri
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "When doubts haunt me, when disappointments
> > > > > > stare me in the face, and I see not one ray of
> > > > > > hope on the horizon, I turn to Bhagavad-Gita and
> > > > > > find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately begin
> > > > > > to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. Those
> > > > > > who meditate on the Gita will
> > > > > > derive fresh joy and new meanings from it every day."
> > > > > > Mahatma Gandhiji
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "From a clear knowledge of the Bhagavad-Gita all
> > > > > > the goals of human existence become fulfilled.
> > > > > > Bhagavad-Gita is the manifest quintessence
> > > > > > of all the teachings of the Vedic scriptures."
> > > > > > Adi Sankara
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "The secret of karma yoga which is to perform
> > > > > > actions without any fruitive desires is taught
> > > > > > by Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad-Gita." -
> > > > > > Swami Vivekananda
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is where God Himself talks to
> > > > > > His devotee Arjuna."
> > > > > > Paramahansa Yogananda
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita has a profound influence on
> > > > > > the spirit of mankind by its devotion to God
> > > > > > which is manifested by actions."
> > > > > > Dr. Albert Schweizer
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Yes.

2. Why not every one here learns it here and now?

3.Just describe Nandan Kanan,the most beutiful paradise of Indra as
beautifully as possible and enjoy it here and now and enrich
endorphins.
regards



--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> Oh yeah...As the last several E-mails I have just
> received reminded me, the Meditation Society of
> America offers a Guided Meditation CD. Info
> about it's contents can be found here:
> http://www.meditationsociety.com/cd.html
> And, as has been suggested, I must mention that
> it's my voice doing the meditation guiding.
> I hope that those who have been using it have
> found it beneficial and enjoyable.
> Peace and blessings,
> Bob
> PS: I witness feelings of something similar to
> embarrassment floating past my mind's eye for
> being involved in any way with self-promotion. But,
> as a good meditator should, I will just let those
> feelings pass and go on to more... shall we say
> "serene" ones.
> > Article from medicalnewstoday site 1/4/08:
> >
> > Enhance Healing Through Guided Imagery
> > Main Category: Neurology / Neuroscience News
> > Article Date: 04 Jan 2008 - 0:00 PST
> >
> > Aristotle and Hippocrates believed in the power
> > of images in the brain to enliven the heart and
> > body. Today, research shows they were right. Guided
> > imagery is helping patients use the full range of
> > the body's healing capacity, according to the
> > January issue of Mayo Clinic Health Letter.
> >
> > Guided imagery is more than listening to relaxing
> > sounds. It's a learning process to listen to
> > someone's voice, relax the breathing and consciously
> > direct the ability to imagine. The effect of guided
> > vivid imagery sends a message to the emotional
> > control center of the brain. From there, the message
> > is passed along to the body's endocrine, immune and
> > autonomic nervous systems. These systems influence a
> > wide range of bodily functions, including heart and
> > breathing rates and blood pressure.
> >
> > Guided imagery has been shown to benefit patients by:
> >
> > -- Reducing side effects from cancer treatment
> >
> > -- Reducing fear and anxiety prior to surgery. Studies
> > have shown that surgery patients who participated in
> > two to four guided imagery sessions required less pain
> > medication and left the hospital more quickly than those
> > who hadn't used imagery.
> >
> > -- Managing stress
> >
> > -- Managing headaches. Studies have shown that guided
> > imagery may aid in reducing the frequency of migraine
> > headaches as effectively as taking preventive
> > medications.
> >
> > On the Internet, http://www.healthjourneys.com offers
> > information on guided imagery. A physician may be able
> > to recommend providers experienced in this technique.
> >
> > Mayo Clinic
> > 200 First St. SW
> > Rochester, MN 55902
> > United States
> > http://www.mayoclinic.com
> >
> > FAIR USE NOTICE
> > This site contains copyrighted material the
> > use of which has not always been specifically
> > authorized by the copyright owner. We are
> > making such material available in our efforts
> > to advance understanding of environmental,
> > political, human rights, economic, democracy,
> > scientific, spiritual, and social justice issues,
> > etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use'
> > of any such copyrighted material as provided
> > for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law.
> > In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107,
> > the material on this site is distributed
> > without profit to those who have expressed a
> > prior interest in receiving the included information
> > for research and educational purposes. For more
> > information go to:
> > http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml.
> > If you wish to use copyrighted material from this
> > site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use',
> > you must obtain permission from the copyright owner
> >
>

Yes. Intangible to tangible is guided imagery.
regards


--- In
meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
<jogeshwarmahanta@...> wrote:
>
> Yes.
>
> 2. Why not every one here learns it here and now?
>
> 3.Just describe Nandan Kanan,the most beutiful paradise of Indra
as
> beautifully as possible and enjoy it here and now and enrich
> endorphins.
> regards
>
>
>
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
medit8ionsociety
> <no_reply@> wrote:
> >
> > Oh yeah...As the last several E-mails I have just
> > received reminded me, the Meditation Society of
> > America offers a Guided Meditation CD. Info
> > about it's contents can be found here:
> > http://www.meditationsociety.com/cd.html
> > And, as has been suggested, I must mention that
> > it's my voice doing the meditation guiding.
> > I hope that those who have been using it have
> > found it beneficial and enjoyable.
> > Peace and blessings,
> > Bob
> > PS: I witness feelings of something similar to
> > embarrassment floating past my mind's eye for
> > being involved in any way with self-promotion. But,
> > as a good meditator should, I will just let those
> > feelings pass and go on to more... shall we say
> > "serene" ones.
> > > Article from medicalnewstoday site 1/4/08:
> > >
> > > Enhance Healing Through Guided Imagery
> > > Main Category: Neurology / Neuroscience News
> > > Article Date: 04 Jan 2008 - 0:00 PST
> > >
> > > Aristotle and Hippocrates believed in the power
> > > of images in the brain to enliven the heart and
> > > body. Today, research shows they were right. Guided
> > > imagery is helping patients use the full range of
> > > the body's healing capacity, according to the
> > > January issue of Mayo Clinic Health Letter.
> > >
> > > Guided imagery is more than listening to relaxing
> > > sounds. It's a learning process to listen to
> > > someone's voice, relax the breathing and consciously
> > > direct the ability to imagine. The effect of guided
> > > vivid imagery sends a message to the emotional
> > > control center of the brain. From there, the message
> > > is passed along to the body's endocrine, immune and
> > > autonomic nervous systems. These systems influence a
> > > wide range of bodily functions, including heart and
> > > breathing rates and blood pressure.
> > >
> > > Guided imagery has been shown to benefit patients by:
> > >
> > > -- Reducing side effects from cancer treatment
> > >
> > > -- Reducing fear and anxiety prior to surgery. Studies
> > > have shown that surgery patients who participated in
> > > two to four guided imagery sessions required less pain
> > > medication and left the hospital more quickly than those
> > > who hadn't used imagery.
> > >
> > > -- Managing stress
> > >
> > > -- Managing headaches. Studies have shown that guided
> > > imagery may aid in reducing the frequency of migraine
> > > headaches as effectively as taking preventive
> > > medications.
> > >
> > > On the Internet, http://www.healthjourneys.com offers
> > > information on guided imagery. A physician may be able
> > > to recommend providers experienced in this technique.
> > >
> > > Mayo Clinic
> > > 200 First St. SW
> > > Rochester, MN 55902
> > > United States
> > > http://www.mayoclinic.com
> > >
> > > FAIR USE NOTICE
> > > This site contains copyrighted material the
> > > use of which has not always been specifically
> > > authorized by the copyright owner. We are
> > > making such material available in our efforts
> > > to advance understanding of environmental,
> > > political, human rights, economic, democracy,
> > > scientific, spiritual, and social justice issues,
> > > etc. We believe this constitutes a 'fair use'
> > > of any such copyrighted material as provided
> > > for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law.
> > > In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107,
> > > the material on this site is distributed
> > > without profit to those who have expressed a
> > > prior interest in receiving the included information
> > > for research and educational purposes. For more
> > > information go to:
> > > http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml.
> > > If you wish to use copyrighted material from this
> > > site for purposes of your own that go beyond 'fair use',
> > > you must obtain permission from the copyright owner
> > >
> >
>

In my opinion, the best currently available book on meditation is The
Myth of Freedom by Chogyam Trungpa.

It is said that it takes 100 life times for a monk to realize
enlightenment,...for a yogi it takes about 10 lifetimes,...however,
for a sly (wo)man, enlightenment can be realized in a single
lifetime.  That meditation is called the Short Path or Vajrayana.

If you really cannot acknowledge the impermanence of duality and feel
you have 10 lifetimes to learn and earn your way out of here, by all
means go for Patanjali's Yoga Sutras.  If, on the other hand, you
realize that you don't have all the time in the world, and truly
appreciate how lucky you are to even have time for meditation, try
the Short Path.

V
:)


--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
<jogeshwarmahanta@...> wrote:
>
> So,I think, now there will be focus on Patanjali's Yoga Sutras,the
> smallest book of the greatest importance.
> regards
>
>
> --- In
> meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
> <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
> >
> > Oh! I forgot one very important aspect.
> >
> > In relation to God:
> >
> > Patanjal-Ishwara pranidhanadva(Or by devotion to God)
> >
> > Geeta-Sarba dharman parityajya mamekam sharanam braja(Abandon all
> > and surrender to Me)-Lord Krishna
> > regards
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In
> > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
> > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Sorry for the spelling mistake.I intended to write Madbhagavat
> > Geeta.
> > >
> > > No.
> > > The definitions of Yoga:
> > >
> > > Patnjali-Yogaschittavritti norodhah(Regulation of
> > mind/procliviries).
> > >
> > > Geeta-Sdhyasidhyo samabhutwa samatwam yoga uchyate(Accepting
> > success
> > > and failure as the same)
> > >
> > > Objectives-Moksha.
> > >
> > > Patanjali-Attaining the purest conscience/Transcending time and
> > > space.
> > >
> > > Geeta-Merger with Him/God/Almighty/The Braman.
> > >
> > > Approach:
> > >
> > > Patanjali-Continuous deconditioning and reconditioning.
> > >
> > > Geeta-Just witnessing the happenings in detached manner.
> > >
> > > regards
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> > medit8ionsociety
> > > <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In
> > > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
> > > > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > No further views?
> > > > > regards
> > > > >
> > > > Yo Sri Jogeshwarmahanta,
> > > > I didn't realize that you were referring to
> > > > the Bhagavad Gita, but now I am assuming you
> > > > were, and that it was your unique spelling
> > > > (Magbhagvat Geeta) that made me feel unable
> > > > to reply. I don't see in any way that the
> > > > 2 books as being "diametrically opposite.
> > > > Actually, I feel they compliment each other
> > > > perfectly. The Gita shares how one can best
> > > > prepare to medtate and live a pure life that
> > > > eliminates the distractions that hold one back
> > > > from experiencing the bounty of treasures that
> > > > meditation brings. And the Sutras are the
> > > > perfect "how-to" book on meditation. Together
> > > > they comprise the totality of all one
> > > > needs to learn, and then do, to best unfold
> > > > the flower of peace, wisdom and bliss that is
> > > > within and is the birthright of all of humanity.
> > > > Peace and Blessings,
> > > > Bob
> > > > > --- In
> > > > >
> meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
> > > > > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Has any body gone through comparative reading and
practice
> > of
> > > > > > Magbhagvat Geeta and Patanjali's Yoga Sutras? As I find
> > > objectives
> > > > > > of the two texts are diametrically opposite.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From the practice point of view, I think, Yoga Sutras is
a
> > > better
> > > > > > manual.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for this thread.
> > > > > > regards
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > medit8ionsociety
> > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > One of the most common emails the
> > > > > > > Meditation Society of America gets
> > > > > > > asks for advice on which books are
> > > > > > > the best dealing with meditation.
> > > > > > > We had several this week and also
> > > > > > > received an email from the Divya
> > > > > > > Jivan Newsletter that pointed to
> > > > > > > one answer to this question. We'll
> > > > > > > let these quotes speak for themselves:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and
> > > > > > > reflace about how God created this
> > > > > > > universe everything else seems so superfluous."
> > > > > > > Albert Einstein
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita calls on humanity to
> > > > > > > dedicate body, mind and soul
> > > > > > > to pure duty and not to become mental
> > > > > > > voluptuaries at the mercy of
> > > > > > > random desires and undisciplined impulses."
> > > > > > > Mahatma Gandhiji
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is the most systematic statement
> > > > > > > of spiritualevolution of endowing value to mankind.
> > > > > > > It is one of the most clear and comprehensive
> > > > > > > summaries of perennial philosophy ever revealed;
> > > > > > > hence its enduring value is subject not only to
> > > > > > > India but to all of humanity."
> > > > > > > Aldous Huxley
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is a true scripture of the
> > > > > > > human race a living creation rather than a book,
> > > > > > > with a new message for every age and a
> > > > > > > new meaning for every civilization."
> > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "In the morning I bathe my intellect in the
> > > > > > > stupendous and cosmogonal philosophy of the
> > > > > > > Bhagavad-Gita, in comparison with which our modern
> > > > > > > world and its literature seems puny and trivial."
> > > > > > > Henry David Thoreau
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "The marvel of the Bhagavad-Gita is its truly
> > > > > > > beautiful revelation of life's wisdom which
> > > > > > > enables philosophy to blossom into religion."
> > > > > > > Herman Hesse
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita deals essentially with the
> > > > > > > spiritual foundation of human existence. It is
> > > > > > > a call of action to meet the obligations and
> > > > > > > duties of life; yet keeping in view the spiritual
> > > > > > > nature and grander purpose of the universe."
> > > > > > > Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad-Gita.
> > > > > > > It was the first of books; it was as if an empire
> > > > > > > spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy,
> > > > > > > but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an
> > > > > > > old intelligence which in another age and climate
> > > > > > > had pondered and thus disposed of the same
> > > > > > > questions which exercise us."
> > > > > > > Ralph Waldo Emerson
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is an empire of thought
> > > > > > > and in its philosophical teachings Krishna
> > > > > > > has all the attributes of the full-fledged
> > > > > > > montheistic deity and at the same time the
> > > > > > > attributes of the Upanisadic absolute."
> > > > > > > Ralph Waldo Emerson
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "In order to approach a creation as sublime
> > > > > > > as the Bhagavad-Gita with full understanding
> > > > > > > it is necessary to attune our soul to it." -
> > > > > > > Rudolph Steiner
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is not seperate from the
> > > > > > > Vaisnava philosophy and the Srimad Bhagavatam
> > > > > > > fully reveals the true import of this doctrine
> > > > > > > which is transmigation of the soul. On perusal
> > > > > > > of the first chapter of Bhagavad-Gita one may
> > > > > > > think that they are advised to engage in
> > > > > > > warfare. When the second chapter has been read
> > > > > > > it can be clearly understood that knowledge and
> > > > > > > the soul is the ultimate goal to be
> > > > > > > attained. On studying the third chapter it is
> > > > > > > apparent that acts of righteousness are also of
> > > > > > > high priority. If we continue and patiently
> > > > > > > take the time to complete the Bhagavad-Gita and
> > > > > > > try to ascertain the truth of its closing chapter
> > > > > > > we can see that the ultimate conclusion
> > > > > > > is to relinquish all the conceptualized ideas
> > > > > > > of religion which we possess and fully surrender
> > > > > > > directly unto the Supreme Lord."
> > > > > > > Sri Swami Prabhupada
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "The secret of karma yoga which is to perform
> > > > > > > actions without any fruitive desires is taught
> > > > > > > by Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad-Gita."
> > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita was spoken by Lord Krishna to
> > > > > > > reveal the science of devotion to God which is the
> > > > > > > essence of all spiritual knowledge. The
> > > > > > > Supreme Lord Krishnas primary purpose for descending
> > > > > > > and incarnating is relieve the world of any demoniac
> > > > > > > and negative, undesirable influences that are
> > > > > > > opposed to spiritual development, yet
> > > > > > > simultaneously it is His incomparable intention
> > > > > > > to be perpetually within reach of all humanity."
> > > > > > > Sri Ramanuja
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Nothing has ever arisen in my life, internal
> > > > > > > or external, that the Gita has not made clear
> > > > > > > and enabled me to deal with or understand."
> > > > > > > Swami Nirmalananda Giri
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "When doubts haunt me, when disappointments
> > > > > > > stare me in the face, and I see not one ray of
> > > > > > > hope on the horizon, I turn to Bhagavad-Gita and
> > > > > > > find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately begin
> > > > > > > to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. Those
> > > > > > > who meditate on the Gita will
> > > > > > > derive fresh joy and new meanings from it every day."
> > > > > > > Mahatma Gandhiji
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "From a clear knowledge of the Bhagavad-Gita all
> > > > > > > the goals of human existence become fulfilled.
> > > > > > > Bhagavad-Gita is the manifest quintessence
> > > > > > > of all the teachings of the Vedic scriptures."
> > > > > > > Adi Sankara
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "The secret of karma yoga which is to perform
> > > > > > > actions without any fruitive desires is taught
> > > > > > > by Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad-Gita." -
> > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is where God Himself talks to
> > > > > > > His devotee Arjuna."
> > > > > > > Paramahansa Yogananda
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita has a profound influence on
> > > > > > > the spirit of mankind by its devotion to God
> > > > > > > which is manifested by actions."
> > > > > > > Dr. Albert Schweizer
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Great observations. Yes, it may
be the destiny, but not if the
universe is cancelled - or humans
go about to destroy the eco system
on earth entirely. So, agreed, not
certain.

There are 2 classes of Bodhisattva.
Those who have attained Buddhahood
(enlightenment by any other name
is still enlightenment) and yet
wait at the gate through which
they have already passed, and
then come back, for the arrival of
all sentient beings. The others
are those who are still seeking
to overcome the false, and so
are, in a sense, naive Boddhisattvas.

Clarity, as in the first category
of Boddhisattva, leaves no question
and brings an abiding recognition
of the false.

Also agree that many gurus perpetuate
the false. Gurus are over-promisers
for the most part. In their enthusiasm
for the enlightenment they have
attained - and the sure sense of
the (potential) destiny of humankind
to enter the cosmis conscious realm -
they "promise" to guide the seeker.

But they can only guide by pointing,
and cannot teach that which cannot
be taught.

Thanks.

Jeff

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jvmarco"
<jvmarco@...> wrote:
>
> V:
> A potential destiny perhaps, but not a certain one.  The time-table
> of the Great Feminine could very well cancel out the universe
before
> such a birthing of human beingness occurred, in which case
humankind
> would cease to exist.
>
> From my observations, all meditation eventually leads to Heart-
Mind,
> and from Heart-Mind is uncovered the compassion of the Bodhisattva
to
> be dedicated to the liberation from suffering, and the cause of
> suffering, for all sentient beings.  If such a destiny of truth was
> certain, there would be no Bodhisattvas.  In other words, one could
> say that no Bodhisattva is a guru, if a guru is defined as one who
> has an enthusiasm for an eventuality that is is uncertain.  Of
> course, an authentic Bodhisattva is not the least bit interested in
> enlightenment.  Their interest is in bringing more light and love
> into this reality, not enlightenment.
>
> One way of bringing more light and love in, is to identify the
false
> as the false.
>
> Eckhart Tolle said in 'The Power of Now', page 4, "we need to draw
> our attention to what is false in us, for unless we learn to
> recognize the false as the false, there can be no lasting
> transformation, and you will always be drawn back into illusion,
for
> that is how the false perpetuates itself"   Many guru's actually
> perpetuate the false.
>
>
> Vicente
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
> <jeff@> wrote:
> >
> > OK, agreed. Yet the consistent
> > and universal set-you-free
> > "truth", once known, brings
> > with it the certain sense that
> > awakening to truth is the destiny
> > of humankind.
> >
> > Understanding this, even
> > intellectually, without the
> > direct experience of enlightenment,
> > seems to be why many of the nondual
> > (no separation) mindset feel
> > that the "gurus", in their
> > attunement to and enthusiasm
> > for this eventuality,
> > over-promise, and that we
> > should just allow it to play
> > out...rather than bemoan
> > the fact that most people
> > are not ready for it - today.
> >
> > As for the timetable,
> > that's a different story.
> > It seems that Mother Nature
> > or Divine Mother moves at a
> > very different pace than the
> > impatience of one lifespan.
> >
> >
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jvmarco"
> > <jvmarco@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Many claim to be dedicated to diverse spiritual realities and
> personal
> > > awakening. For most however, the brain, the ego, the pleasure
> centers,
> > > etc., do not want you fascinated with the idea of truth or
waking
> up.
> > > Such a burning fascination would bring the demise of the brain,
> the ego,
> > > the pleasure centers, etc., as the personal thinking process
> knows them.
> > >
> > > I agree that the truth will set you free, but to have a
genuine,
> burning
> > > fascination with truth is very rare,...most people do not want
the
> > > truth, they want useless happiness, and thus its mate, useless
> > > suffering. The realization of truth will bring the demise of
> beliefs,
> > > and the thinking patterns associated with those beliefs.
> > >
> > > Today's human community cannot handle the truth,...truth is too
> profound
> > > to be consciously included in the lives people seek.
> > >
> > > E = mc2 is a partial truth that many accept. Whereas mc2 < c is
> the
> > > fuller truth that most refuse to see; a truth in which
everything
> (that
> > > means everything) can be understood through the cognition of
that
> simple
> > > equation. All energy and mass is less than the speed of light.
> People
> > > however, cling to the idea of energy and mass as something real,
> > > something to be worship like the religious superstititions of
> their
> > > ancestors. The truth is that energy and mass is not real, nor
> does it
> > > exist beyond the dream of separation. Energy is simply the
motion
> of
> > > mass seeking a relationship with its source,...a relationship
it
> can
> > > never have, because the condition of separation cannot merge
with
> the
> > > unconditionality of source. Wholeness is beyond the sum of
> opposites.
> > > The sum of opposites is their cancellation.
> > >
> > > Every teaching of Buddhism points to the fuller truth of the
> > > above,...likewise, the Fourth Way philosophy (enneagram) points
> to the
> > > above,...and Maya and Bön Cosmology also points to the above.
Yet
> > > even the adherents to those philosophies have not gone beyond
> their
> > > beliefs to see the truth. Most people, perhaps more than 99% of
> the
> > > world's population, are not conscious of even a single full
> truth,...nor
> > > do they want to.
> > >
> > > People do not want to understand that the quantum process
applies
> to
> > > humans as well as sub-atomic particles. They do not want to
know
> that
> > > there cannot be a present or instant in time. The often
expressed
> term
> > > 'present time' is an oxymoron. Neither science, religion, nor
New
> Age
> > > philosophy desires to move beyond its own theories,...to have a
> > > renaissance like view of the patterns that weave our existence.
> So even
> > > though truth will set us free, few wish to let go of the desire
of
> > > useless happiness, that they cling to for their identity, and to
> > > authentically embrace the truth. Most people do not want
the "who
> that
> > > they think they are" to disappear. They desire to bring their
> conditions
> > > into the unconditional,...yet truth will never allow that to
> occur.
> > >
> > > Vicente
> > > author of mc2 < c
> > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1425136486
> > > <http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1425136486>
> > >
> >
>

"feel
you have 10 lifetimes to learn and earn your way out of here, by all
means go for Patanjali's Yoga Sutras."

Yes. The first objective is to prolong your life span first.
regards



--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jvmarco"
<jvmarco@...> wrote:
>
> In my opinion, the best currently available book on meditation is
The
> Myth of Freedom by Chogyam Trungpa.
>
> It is said that it takes 100 life times for a monk to realize
> enlightenment,...for a yogi it takes about 10
lifetimes,...however,
> for a sly (wo)man, enlightenment can be realized in a single
> lifetime.  That meditation is called the Short Path or Vajrayana.
>
> If you really cannot acknowledge the impermanence of duality and
feel
> you have 10 lifetimes to learn and earn your way out of here, by
all
> means go for Patanjali's Yoga Sutras.  If, on the other hand, you
> realize that you don't have all the time in the world, and truly
> appreciate how lucky you are to even have time for meditation, try
> the Short Path.
>
> V
> :)
>
>
> --- In
meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
> <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
> >
> > So,I think, now there will be focus on Patanjali's Yoga
Sutras,the
> > smallest book of the greatest importance.
> > regards
> >
> >
> > --- In
> > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
> > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Oh! I forgot one very important aspect.
> > >
> > > In relation to God:
> > >
> > > Patanjal-Ishwara pranidhanadva(Or by devotion to God)
> > >
> > > Geeta-Sarba dharman parityajya mamekam sharanam braja(Abandon
all
> > > and surrender to Me)-Lord Krishna
> > > regards
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In
> > > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
> > > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Sorry for the spelling mistake.I intended to write
Madbhagavat
> > > Geeta.
> > > >
> > > > No.
> > > > The definitions of Yoga:
> > > >
> > > > Patnjali-Yogaschittavritti norodhah(Regulation of
> > > mind/procliviries).
> > > >
> > > > Geeta-Sdhyasidhyo samabhutwa samatwam yoga uchyate(Accepting
> > > success
> > > > and failure as the same)
> > > >
> > > > Objectives-Moksha.
> > > >
> > > > Patanjali-Attaining the purest conscience/Transcending time
and
> > > > space.
> > > >
> > > > Geeta-Merger with Him/God/Almighty/The Braman.
> > > >
> > > > Approach:
> > > >
> > > > Patanjali-Continuous deconditioning and reconditioning.
> > > >
> > > > Geeta-Just witnessing the happenings in detached manner.
> > > >
> > > > regards
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> > > medit8ionsociety
> > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In
> > > >
meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
> > > > > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No further views?
> > > > > > regards
> > > > > >
> > > > > Yo Sri Jogeshwarmahanta,
> > > > > I didn't realize that you were referring to
> > > > > the Bhagavad Gita, but now I am assuming you
> > > > > were, and that it was your unique spelling
> > > > > (Magbhagvat Geeta) that made me feel unable
> > > > > to reply. I don't see in any way that the
> > > > > 2 books as being "diametrically opposite.
> > > > > Actually, I feel they compliment each other
> > > > > perfectly. The Gita shares how one can best
> > > > > prepare to medtate and live a pure life that
> > > > > eliminates the distractions that hold one back
> > > > > from experiencing the bounty of treasures that
> > > > > meditation brings. And the Sutras are the
> > > > > perfect "how-to" book on meditation. Together
> > > > > they comprise the totality of all one
> > > > > needs to learn, and then do, to best unfold
> > > > > the flower of peace, wisdom and bliss that is
> > > > > within and is the birthright of all of humanity.
> > > > > Peace and Blessings,
> > > > > Bob
> > > > > > --- In
> > > > > >
> > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
> > > > > > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Has any body gone through comparative reading and
> practice
> > > of
> > > > > > > Magbhagvat Geeta and Patanjali's Yoga Sutras? As I
find
> > > > objectives
> > > > > > > of the two texts are diametrically opposite.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From the practice point of view, I think, Yoga Sutras
is
> a
> > > > better
> > > > > > > manual.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for this thread.
> > > > > > > regards
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > medit8ionsociety
> > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > One of the most common emails the
> > > > > > > > Meditation Society of America gets
> > > > > > > > asks for advice on which books are
> > > > > > > > the best dealing with meditation.
> > > > > > > > We had several this week and also
> > > > > > > > received an email from the Divya
> > > > > > > > Jivan Newsletter that pointed to
> > > > > > > > one answer to this question. We'll
> > > > > > > > let these quotes speak for themselves:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and
> > > > > > > > reflace about how God created this
> > > > > > > > universe everything else seems so superfluous."
> > > > > > > > Albert Einstein
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita calls on humanity to
> > > > > > > > dedicate body, mind and soul
> > > > > > > > to pure duty and not to become mental
> > > > > > > > voluptuaries at the mercy of
> > > > > > > > random desires and undisciplined impulses."
> > > > > > > > Mahatma Gandhiji
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is the most systematic statement
> > > > > > > > of spiritualevolution of endowing value to mankind.
> > > > > > > > It is one of the most clear and comprehensive
> > > > > > > > summaries of perennial philosophy ever revealed;
> > > > > > > > hence its enduring value is subject not only to
> > > > > > > > India but to all of humanity."
> > > > > > > > Aldous Huxley
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is a true scripture of the
> > > > > > > > human race a living creation rather than a book,
> > > > > > > > with a new message for every age and a
> > > > > > > > new meaning for every civilization."
> > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "In the morning I bathe my intellect in the
> > > > > > > > stupendous and cosmogonal philosophy of the
> > > > > > > > Bhagavad-Gita, in comparison with which our modern
> > > > > > > > world and its literature seems puny and trivial."
> > > > > > > > Henry David Thoreau
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The marvel of the Bhagavad-Gita is its truly
> > > > > > > > beautiful revelation of life's wisdom which
> > > > > > > > enables philosophy to blossom into religion."
> > > > > > > > Herman Hesse
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita deals essentially with the
> > > > > > > > spiritual foundation of human existence. It is
> > > > > > > > a call of action to meet the obligations and
> > > > > > > > duties of life; yet keeping in view the spiritual
> > > > > > > > nature and grander purpose of the universe."
> > > > > > > > Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad-Gita.
> > > > > > > > It was the first of books; it was as if an empire
> > > > > > > > spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy,
> > > > > > > > but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an
> > > > > > > > old intelligence which in another age and climate
> > > > > > > > had pondered and thus disposed of the same
> > > > > > > > questions which exercise us."
> > > > > > > > Ralph Waldo Emerson
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is an empire of thought
> > > > > > > > and in its philosophical teachings Krishna
> > > > > > > > has all the attributes of the full-fledged
> > > > > > > > montheistic deity and at the same time the
> > > > > > > > attributes of the Upanisadic absolute."
> > > > > > > > Ralph Waldo Emerson
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "In order to approach a creation as sublime
> > > > > > > > as the Bhagavad-Gita with full understanding
> > > > > > > > it is necessary to attune our soul to it." -
> > > > > > > > Rudolph Steiner
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is not seperate from the
> > > > > > > > Vaisnava philosophy and the Srimad Bhagavatam
> > > > > > > > fully reveals the true import of this doctrine
> > > > > > > > which is transmigation of the soul. On perusal
> > > > > > > > of the first chapter of Bhagavad-Gita one may
> > > > > > > > think that they are advised to engage in
> > > > > > > > warfare. When the second chapter has been read
> > > > > > > > it can be clearly understood that knowledge and
> > > > > > > > the soul is the ultimate goal to be
> > > > > > > > attained. On studying the third chapter it is
> > > > > > > > apparent that acts of righteousness are also of
> > > > > > > > high priority. If we continue and patiently
> > > > > > > > take the time to complete the Bhagavad-Gita and
> > > > > > > > try to ascertain the truth of its closing chapter
> > > > > > > > we can see that the ultimate conclusion
> > > > > > > > is to relinquish all the conceptualized ideas
> > > > > > > > of religion which we possess and fully surrender
> > > > > > > > directly unto the Supreme Lord."
> > > > > > > > Sri Swami Prabhupada
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The secret of karma yoga which is to perform
> > > > > > > > actions without any fruitive desires is taught
> > > > > > > > by Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad-Gita."
> > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita was spoken by Lord Krishna to
> > > > > > > > reveal the science of devotion to God which is the
> > > > > > > > essence of all spiritual knowledge. The
> > > > > > > > Supreme Lord Krishnas primary purpose for descending
> > > > > > > > and incarnating is relieve the world of any demoniac
> > > > > > > > and negative, undesirable influences that are
> > > > > > > > opposed to spiritual development, yet
> > > > > > > > simultaneously it is His incomparable intention
> > > > > > > > to be perpetually within reach of all humanity."
> > > > > > > > Sri Ramanuja
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Nothing has ever arisen in my life, internal
> > > > > > > > or external, that the Gita has not made clear
> > > > > > > > and enabled me to deal with or understand."
> > > > > > > > Swami Nirmalananda Giri
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "When doubts haunt me, when disappointments
> > > > > > > > stare me in the face, and I see not one ray of
> > > > > > > > hope on the horizon, I turn to Bhagavad-Gita and
> > > > > > > > find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately begin
> > > > > > > > to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. Those
> > > > > > > > who meditate on the Gita will
> > > > > > > > derive fresh joy and new meanings from it every day."
> > > > > > > > Mahatma Gandhiji
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "From a clear knowledge of the Bhagavad-Gita all
> > > > > > > > the goals of human existence become fulfilled.
> > > > > > > > Bhagavad-Gita is the manifest quintessence
> > > > > > > > of all the teachings of the Vedic scriptures."
> > > > > > > > Adi Sankara
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The secret of karma yoga which is to perform
> > > > > > > > actions without any fruitive desires is taught
> > > > > > > > by Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad-Gita." -
> > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is where God Himself talks to
> > > > > > > > His devotee Arjuna."
> > > > > > > > Paramahansa Yogananda
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita has a profound influence on
> > > > > > > > the spirit of mankind by its devotion to God
> > > > > > > > which is manifested by actions."
> > > > > > > > Dr. Albert Schweizer
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

---

To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
From: jogeshwarmahanta@...
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 06:17:00 +0000
Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re: The Best Book on Meditation

"feel
you have 10 lifetimes to learn and earn your way out of here, by all
means go for Patanjali's Yoga Sutras."

Yes. The first objective is to prolong your life span first.
regards

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jvmarco"
<jvmarco@...> wrote:
>
> In my opinion, the best currently available book on meditation is
The
> Myth of Freedom by Chogyam Trungpa.
>
> It is said that it takes 100 life times for a monk to realize
> enlightenment,...for a yogi it takes about 10
lifetimes,...however,
> for a sly (wo)man, enlightenment can be realized in a single
> lifetime. That meditation is called the Short Path or Vajrayana.
>
> If you really cannot acknowledge the impermanence of duality and
feel
> you have 10 lifetimes to learn and earn your way out of here, by
all
> means go for Patanjali's Yoga Sutras. If, on the other hand, you
> realize that you don't have all the time in the world, and truly
> appreciate how lucky you are to even have time for meditation, try
> the Short Path.
>
> V
> :)
>
>
> --- In
meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
> <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
> >
> > So,I think, now there will be focus on Patanjali's Yoga
Sutras,the
> > smallest book of the greatest importance.
> > regards
> >
> >
> > --- In
> > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
> > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Oh! I forgot one very important aspect.
> > >
> > > In relation to God:
> > >
> > > Patanjal-Ishwara pranidhanadva(Or by devotion to God)
> > >
> > > Geeta-Sarba dharman parityajya mamekam sharanam braja(Abandon
all
> > > and surrender to Me)-Lord Krishna
> > > regards
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In
> > > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
> > > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Sorry for the spelling mistake.I intended to write
Madbhagavat
> > > Geeta.
> > > >
> > > > No.
> > > > The definitions of Yoga:
> > > >
> > > > Patnjali-Yogaschittavritti norodhah(Regulation of
> > > mind/procliviries).
> > > >
> > > > Geeta-Sdhyasidhyo samabhutwa samatwam yoga uchyate(Accepting
> > > success
> > > > and failure as the same)
> > > >
> > > > Objectives-Moksha.
> > > >
> > > > Patanjali-Attaining the purest conscience/Transcending time
and
> > > > space.
> > > >
> > > > Geeta-Merger with Him/God/Almighty/The Braman.
> > > >
> > > > Approach:
> > > >
> > > > Patanjali-Continuous deconditioning and reconditioning.
> > > >
> > > > Geeta-Just witnessing the happenings in detached manner.
> > > >
> > > > regards
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> > > medit8ionsociety
> > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In
> > > >
meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
> > > > > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No further views?
> > > > > > regards
> > > > > >
> > > > > Yo Sri Jogeshwarmahanta,
> > > > > I didn't realize that you were referring to
> > > > > the Bhagavad Gita, but now I am assuming you
> > > > > were, and that it was your unique spelling
> > > > > (Magbhagvat Geeta) that made me feel unable
> > > > > to reply. I don't see in any way that the
> > > > > 2 books as being "diametrically opposite.
> > > > > Actually, I feel they compliment each other
> > > > > perfectly. The Gita shares how one can best
> > > > > prepare to medtate and live a pure life that
> > > > > eliminates the distractions that hold one back
> > > > > from experiencing the bounty of treasures that
> > > > > meditation brings. And the Sutras are the
> > > > > perfect "how-to" book on meditation. Together
> > > > > they comprise the totality of all one
> > > > > needs to learn, and then do, to best unfold
> > > > > the flower of peace, wisdom and bliss that is
> > > > > within and is the birthright of all of humanity.
> > > > > Peace and Blessings,
> > > > > Bob
> > > > > > --- In
> > > > > >
> > meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
> > > > > > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Has any body gone through comparative reading and
> practice
> > > of
> > > > > > > Magbhagvat Geeta and Patanjali's Yoga Sutras? As I
find
> > > > objectives
> > > > > > > of the two texts are diametrically opposite.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > From the practice point of view, I think, Yoga Sutras
is
> a
> > > > better
> > > > > > > manual.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for this thread.
> > > > > > > regards
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> > > > > > medit8ionsociety
> > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > One of the most common emails the
> > > > > > > > Meditation Society of America gets
> > > > > > > > asks for advice on which books are
> > > > > > > > the best dealing with meditation.
> > > > > > > > We had several this week and also
> > > > > > > > received an email from the Divya
> > > > > > > > Jivan Newsletter that pointed to
> > > > > > > > one answer to this question. We'll
> > > > > > > > let these quotes speak for themselves:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and
> > > > > > > > reflace about how God created this
> > > > > > > > universe everything else seems so superfluous."
> > > > > > > > Albert Einstein
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita calls on humanity to
> > > > > > > > dedicate body, mind and soul
> > > > > > > > to pure duty and not to become mental
> > > > > > > > voluptuaries at the mercy of
> > > > > > > > random desires and undisciplined impulses."
> > > > > > > > Mahatma Gandhiji
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is the most systematic statement
> > > > > > > > of spiritualevolution of endowing value to mankind.
> > > > > > > > It is one of the most clear and comprehensive
> > > > > > > > summaries of perennial philosophy ever revealed;
> > > > > > > > hence its enduring value is subject not only to
> > > > > > > > India but to all of humanity."
> > > > > > > > Aldous Huxley
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is a true scripture of the
> > > > > > > > human race a living creation rather than a book,
> > > > > > > > with a new message for every age and a
> > > > > > > > new meaning for every civilization."
> > > > > > > > Sri Aurobindo
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "In the morning I bathe my intellect in the
> > > > > > > > stupendous and cosmogonal philosophy of the
> > > > > > > > Bhagavad-Gita, in comparison with which our modern
> > > > > > > > world and its literature seems puny and trivial."
> > > > > > > > Henry David Thoreau
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The marvel of the Bhagavad-Gita is its truly
> > > > > > > > beautiful revelation of life's wisdom which
> > > > > > > > enables philosophy to blossom into religion."
> > > > > > > > Herman Hesse
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita deals essentially with the
> > > > > > > > spiritual foundation of human existence. It is
> > > > > > > > a call of action to meet the obligations and
> > > > > > > > duties of life; yet keeping in view the spiritual
> > > > > > > > nature and grander purpose of the universe."
> > > > > > > > Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad-Gita.
> > > > > > > > It was the first of books; it was as if an empire
> > > > > > > > spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy,
> > > > > > > > but large, serene, consistent, the voice of an
> > > > > > > > old intelligence which in another age and climate
> > > > > > > > had pondered and thus disposed of the same
> > > > > > > > questions which exercise us."
> > > > > > > > Ralph Waldo Emerson
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is an empire of thought
> > > > > > > > and in its philosophical teachings Krishna
> > > > > > > > has all the attributes of the full-fledged
> > > > > > > > montheistic deity and at the same time the
> > > > > > > > attributes of the Upanisadic absolute."
> > > > > > > > Ralph Waldo Emerson
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "In order to approach a creation as sublime
> > > > > > > > as the Bhagavad-Gita with full understanding
> > > > > > > > it is necessary to attune our soul to it." -
> > > > > > > > Rudolph Steiner
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is not seperate from the
> > > > > > > > Vaisnava philosophy and the Srimad Bhagavatam
> > > > > > > > fully reveals the true import of this doctrine
> > > > > > > > which is transmigation of the soul. On perusal
> > > > > > > > of the first chapter of Bhagavad-Gita one may
> > > > > > > > think that they are advised to engage in
> > > > > > > > warfare. When the second chapter has been read
> > > > > > > > it can be clearly understood that knowledge and
> > > > > > > > the soul is the ultimate goal to be
> > > > > > > > attained. On studying the third chapter it is
> > > > > > > > apparent that acts of righteousness are also of
> > > > > > > > high priority. If we continue and patiently
> > > > > > > > take the time to complete the Bhagavad-Gita and
> > > > > > > > try to ascertain the truth of its closing chapter
> > > > > > > > we can see that the ultimate conclusion
> > > > > > > > is to relinquish all the conceptualized ideas
> > > > > > > > of religion which we possess and fully surrender
> > > > > > > > directly unto the Supreme Lord."
> > > > > > > > Sri Swami Prabhupada
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The secret of karma yoga which is to perform
> > > > > > > > actions without any fruitive desires is taught
> > > > > > > > by Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad-Gita."
> > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita was spoken by Lord Krishna to
> > > > > > > > reveal the science of devotion to God which is the
> > > > > > > > essence of all spiritual knowledge. The
> > > > > > > > Supreme Lord Krishnas primary purpose for descending
> > > > > > > > and incarnating is relieve the world of any demoniac
> > > > > > > > and negative, undesirable influences that are
> > > > > > > > opposed to spiritual development, yet
> > > > > > > > simultaneously it is His incomparable intention
> > > > > > > > to be perpetually within reach of all humanity."
> > > > > > > > Sri Ramanuja
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "Nothing has ever arisen in my life, internal
> > > > > > > > or external, that the Gita has not made clear
> > > > > > > > and enabled me to deal with or understand."
> > > > > > > > Swami Nirmalananda Giri
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "When doubts haunt me, when disappointments
> > > > > > > > stare me in the face, and I see not one ray of
> > > > > > > > hope on the horizon, I turn to Bhagavad-Gita and
> > > > > > > > find a verse to comfort me; and I immediately begin
> > > > > > > > to smile in the midst of overwhelming sorrow. Those
> > > > > > > > who meditate on the Gita will
> > > > > > > > derive fresh joy and new meanings from it every day."
> > > > > > > > Mahatma Gandhiji
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "From a clear knowledge of the Bhagavad-Gita all
> > > > > > > > the goals of human existence become fulfilled.
> > > > > > > > Bhagavad-Gita is the manifest quintessence
> > > > > > > > of all the teachings of the Vedic scriptures."
> > > > > > > > Adi Sankara
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The secret of karma yoga which is to perform
> > > > > > > > actions without any fruitive desires is taught
> > > > > > > > by Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad-Gita." -
> > > > > > > > Swami Vivekananda
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is where God Himself talks to
> > > > > > > > His devotee Arjuna."
> > > > > > > > Paramahansa Yogananda
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita has a profound influence on
> > > > > > > > the spirit of mankind by its devotion to God
> > > > > > > > which is manifested by actions."
> > > > > > > > Dr. Albert Schweizer
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

From 1 book to 4 now.
regards

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Balasubramanian
Radhakrishnan Kumar <kumarbr20@...> wrote:
>
>
> Sri Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi's self enquiry method for self
realisation is the shortest and the best. -- B.R.Kumar, Chennai -41,
INDIA
>
>
> To: meditationsocietyofamerica@...: jogeshwarmahanta@...: Thu, 10
Jan 2008 06:17:00 +0000Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Re:
The Best Book on Meditation
>
>
>
>
> "feelyou have 10 lifetimes to learn and earn your way out of here,
by allmeans go for Patanjali's Yoga Sutras."Yes. The first objective
is to prolong your life span first.regards--- In
meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jvmarco" <jvmarco@>
wrote:>> In my opinion, the best currently available book on
meditation is The > Myth of Freedom by Chogyam Trungpa.> > It is
said that it takes 100 life times for a monk to realize >
enlightenment,...for a yogi it takes about 10 lifetimes,...however,
> for a sly (wo)man, enlightenment can be realized in a single >
lifetime. That meditation is called the Short Path or Vajrayana.> >
If you really cannot acknowledge the impermanence of duality and
feel > you have 10 lifetimes to learn and earn your way out of here,
by all > means go for Patanjali's Yoga Sutras. If, on the other
hand, you > realize that you don't have all the time in the world,
and truly > appreciate how lucky you are to even have time for
meditation, try > the Short Path. > > V> :)> > > --- In
meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta" >
<jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:> >> > So,I think, now there will be focus
on Patanjali's Yoga Sutras,the > > smallest book of the greatest
importance.> > regards> > > > > > --- In > >
meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta" > >
<jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:> > >> > > Oh! I forgot one very important
aspect.> > > > > > In relation to God:> > > > > > Patanjal-Ishwara
pranidhanadva(Or by devotion to God)> > > > > > Geeta-Sarba dharman
parityajya mamekam sharanam braja(Abandon all > > > and surrender to
Me)-Lord Krishna> > > regards> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In > > >
meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta" > > >
<jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:> > > >> > > > Sorry for the spelling
mistake.I intended to write Madbhagavat > > > Geeta.> > > > > > > >
No. > > > > The definitions of Yoga:> > > > > > > > Patnjali-
Yogaschittavritti norodhah(Regulation of > > > mind/procliviries).>
> > > > > > > Geeta-Sdhyasidhyo samabhutwa samatwam yoga uchyate
(Accepting > > > success > > > > and failure as the same)> > > > > >
> > Objectives-Moksha.> > > > > > > > Patanjali-Attaining the purest
conscience/Transcending time and > > > > space.> > > > > > > > Geeta-
Merger with Him/God/Almighty/The Braman.> > > > > > > > Approach:> >
> > > > > > Patanjali-Continuous deconditioning and reconditioning.>
> > > > > > > Geeta-Just witnessing the happenings in detached
manner.> > > > > > > > regards> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> > > medit8ionsociety > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:> > > > >> > > > > -
-- In > > > >
meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"> > >
> > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:> > > > > >> > > > > > No further
views?> > > > > > regards> > > > > > > > > > > Yo Sri
Jogeshwarmahanta,> > > > > I didn't realize that you were referring
to > > > > > the Bhagavad Gita, but now I am assuming you > > > > >
were, and that it was your unique spelling> > > > > (Magbhagvat
Geeta) that made me feel unable> > > > > to reply. I don't see in
any way that the> > > > > 2 books as being "diametrically opposite.>
> > > > Actually, I feel they compliment each other> > > > >
perfectly. The Gita shares how one can best> > > > > prepare to
medtate and live a pure life that> > > > > eliminates the
distractions that hold one back> > > > > from experiencing the
bounty of treasures that> > > > > meditation brings. And the Sutras
are the> > > > > perfect "how-to" book on meditation. Together> > >
> > they comprise the totality of all one> > > > > needs to learn,
and then do, to best unfold> > > > > the flower of peace, wisdom and
bliss that is> > > > > within and is the birthright of all of
humanity.> > > > > Peace and Blessings,> > > > > Bob> > > > > > ---
In > > > > > > > >
meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta" > > >
> > > <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:> > > > > > >> > > > > > > Has any
body gone through comparative reading and > practice > > > of > > >
> > > > Magbhagvat Geeta and Patanjali's Yoga Sutras? As I find > >
> > objectives > > > > > > > of the two texts are diametrically
opposite.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > From the practice point of
view, I think, Yoga Sutras is > a > > > > better > > > > > > >
manual.> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for this thread.> > > > >
> > regards> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, > > >
> > > medit8ionsociety > > > > > > > <no_reply@> wrote:> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > One of the most common emails the> > > > > > > >
Meditation Society of America gets> > > > > > > > asks for advice on
which books are> > > > > > > > the best dealing with meditation.> >
> > > > > > We had several this week and also> > > > > > > >
received an email from the Divya> > > > > > > > Jivan Newsletter
that pointed to> > > > > > > > one answer to this question. We'll> >
> > > > > > let these quotes speak for themselves:> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "When I read the Bhagavad-Gita and > > > > > > > >
reflace about how God created this> > > > > > > > universe
everything else seems so superfluous." > > > > > > > > Albert
Einstein> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita calls on
humanity to > > > > > > > > dedicate body, mind and soul> > > > > >
> > to pure duty and not to become mental > > > > > > > >
voluptuaries at the mercy of> > > > > > > > random desires and
undisciplined impulses."> > > > > > > > Mahatma Gandhiji> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is the most systematic
statement > > > > > > > > of spiritualevolution of endowing value to
mankind. > > > > > > > > It is one of the most clear and
comprehensive > > > > > > > > summaries of perennial philosophy ever
revealed;> > > > > > > > hence its enduring value is subject not
only to > > > > > > > > India but to all of humanity."> > > > > > >
> Aldous Huxley> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is
a true scripture of the > > > > > > > > human race a living creation
rather than a book, > > > > > > > > with a new message for every age
and a> > > > > > > > new meaning for every civilization." > > > > >
> > > Sri Aurobindo> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "In the morning I
bathe my intellect in the > > > > > > > > stupendous and cosmogonal
philosophy of the > > > > > > > > Bhagavad-Gita, in comparison with
which our modern> > > > > > > > world and its literature seems puny
and trivial."> > > > > > > > Henry David Thoreau> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > "The marvel of the Bhagavad-Gita is its truly > > > > >
> > > beautiful revelation of life's wisdom which > > > > > > > >
enables philosophy to blossom into religion." > > > > > > > > Herman
Hesse> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita deals
essentially with the > > > > > > > > spiritual foundation of human
existence. It is > > > > > > > > a call of action to meet the
obligations and> > > > > > > > duties of life; yet keeping in view
the spiritual > > > > > > > > nature and grander purpose of the
universe."> > > > > > > > Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > "I owed a magnificent day to the Bhagavad-Gita. > > > >
> > > > It was the first of books; it was as if an empire > > > > >
> > > spoke to us, nothing small or unworthy,> > > > > > > > but
large, serene, consistent, the voice of an > > > > > > > > old
intelligence which in another age and climate > > > > > > > > had
pondered and thus disposed of the same> > > > > > > > questions
which exercise us."> > > > > > > > Ralph Waldo Emerson> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita is an empire of thought > > > >
> > > > and in its philosophical teachings Krishna > > > > > > > >
has all the attributes of the full-fledged> > > > > > > >
montheistic deity and at the same time the > > > > > > > >
attributes of the Upanisadic absolute."> > > > > > > > Ralph Waldo
Emerson> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "In order to approach a
creation as sublime > > > > > > > > as the Bhagavad-Gita with full
understanding > > > > > > > > it is necessary to attune our soul to
it." -> > > > > > > > Rudolph Steiner> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> "The Bhagavad-Gita is not seperate from the > > > > > > > >
Vaisnava philosophy and the Srimad Bhagavatam > > > > > > > > fully
reveals the true import of this doctrine> > > > > > > > which is
transmigation of the soul. On perusal > > > > > > > > of the first
chapter of Bhagavad-Gita one may > > > > > > > > think that they are
advised to engage in> > > > > > > > warfare. When the second chapter
has been read > > > > > > > > it can be clearly understood that
knowledge and > > > > > > > > the soul is the ultimate goal to be> >
> > > > > > attained. On studying the third chapter it is > > > > >
> > > apparent that acts of righteousness are also of > > > > > > >
> high priority. If we continue and patiently> > > > > > > > take
the time to complete the Bhagavad-Gita and > > > > > > > > try to
ascertain the truth of its closing chapter > > > > > > > > we can
see that the ultimate conclusion> > > > > > > > is to relinquish all
the conceptualized ideas > > > > > > > > of religion which we
possess and fully surrender > > > > > > > > directly unto the
Supreme Lord."> > > > > > > > Sri Swami Prabhupada> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "The secret of karma yoga which is to perform > > > >
> > > > actions without any fruitive desires is taught > > > > > > >
> by Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad-Gita." > > > > > > > > Swami
Vivekananda> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita was
spoken by Lord Krishna to > > > > > > > > reveal the science of
devotion to God which is the > > > > > > > > essence of all
spiritual knowledge. The> > > > > > > > Supreme Lord Krishnas
primary purpose for descending > > > > > > > > and incarnating is
relieve the world of any demoniac > > > > > > > > and negative,
undesirable influences that are > > > > > > > > opposed to spiritual
development, yet> > > > > > > > simultaneously it is His
incomparable intention > > > > > > > > to be perpetually within
reach of all humanity."> > > > > > > > Sri Ramanuja> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Nothing has ever arisen in my life, internal > > > >
> > > > or external, that the Gita has not made clear > > > > > > >
> and enabled me to deal with or understand." > > > > > > > > Swami
Nirmalananda Giri> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "When doubts haunt
me, when disappointments > > > > > > > > stare me in the face, and I
see not one ray of > > > > > > > > hope on the horizon, I turn to
Bhagavad-Gita and> > > > > > > > find a verse to comfort me; and I
immediately begin > > > > > > > > to smile in the midst of
overwhelming sorrow. Those > > > > > > > > who meditate on the Gita
will> > > > > > > > derive fresh joy and new meanings from it every
day."> > > > > > > > Mahatma Gandhiji> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> "From a clear knowledge of the Bhagavad-Gita all > > > > > > > >
the goals of human existence become fulfilled. > > > > > > > >
Bhagavad-Gita is the manifest quintessence> > > > > > > > of all the
teachings of the Vedic scriptures."> > > > > > > > Adi Sankara> > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "The secret of karma yoga which is to
perform > > > > > > > > actions without any fruitive desires is
taught> > > > > > > > by Lord Krishna in the Bhagavad-Gita." -> > >
> > > > > Swami Vivekananda> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The
Bhagavad-Gita is where God Himself talks to > > > > > > > > His
devotee Arjuna."> > > > > > > > Paramahansa Yogananda> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > "The Bhagavad-Gita has a profound influence on > > >
> > > > > the spirit of mankind by its devotion to God > > > > > > >
> which is manifested by actions."> > > > > > > > Dr. Albert
Schweizer> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> >
>> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Post free property ads on Yello Classifieds now! www.yello.in
> http://ss1.richmedia.in/recurl.asp?pid=220
>

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
<jeff@...> wrote:
>
> Great observations. Yes, it may
> be the destiny, but not if the
> universe is cancelled - or humans
> go about to destroy the eco system
> on earth entirely. So, agreed, not
> certain.
>
> There are 2 classes of Bodhisattva.
> Those who have attained Buddhahood
> (enlightenment by any other name
> is still enlightenment) and yet
> wait at the gate through which
> they have already passed, and
> then come back, for the arrival of
> all sentient beings. The others
> are those who are still seeking
> to overcome the false, and so
> are, in a sense, naive Boddhisattvas.
>
> Clarity, as in the first category
> of Boddhisattva, leaves no question
> and brings an abiding recognition
> of the false.
>
> Also agree that many gurus perpetuate
> the false. Gurus are over-promisers
> for the most part. In their enthusiasm
> for the enlightenment they have
> attained - and the sure sense of
> the (potential) destiny of humankind
> to enter the cosmis conscious realm -
> they "promise" to guide the seeker.
>
> But they can only guide by pointing,
> and cannot teach that which cannot
> be taught.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jeff
>
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jvmarco"
> <jvmarco@> wrote:
> >
> > V:
> > A potential destiny perhaps, but not a certain one.  The time-table
> > of the Great Feminine could very well cancel out the universe
> before
> > such a birthing of human beingness occurred, in which case
> humankind
> > would cease to exist.
> >
> > From my observations, all meditation eventually leads to Heart-
> Mind,
> > and from Heart-Mind is uncovered the compassion of the Bodhisattva
> to
> > be dedicated to the liberation from suffering, and the cause of
> > suffering, for all sentient beings.  If such a destiny of truth was
> > certain, there would be no Bodhisattvas.  In other words, one could
> > say that no Bodhisattva is a guru, if a guru is defined as one who
> > has an enthusiasm for an eventuality that is is uncertain.  Of
> > course, an authentic Bodhisattva is not the least bit interested in
> > enlightenment.  Their interest is in bringing more light and love
> > into this reality, not enlightenment.
> >
> > One way of bringing more light and love in, is to identify the
> false
> > as the false.
> >
> > Eckhart Tolle said in 'The Power of Now', page 4, "we need to draw
> > our attention to what is false in us, for unless we learn to
> > recognize the false as the false, there can be no lasting
> > transformation, and you will always be drawn back into illusion,
> for
> > that is how the false perpetuates itself"   Many guru's actually
> > perpetuate the false.
> >
> >
> > Vicente
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
> > <jeff@> wrote:
> > >
> > > OK, agreed. Yet the consistent
> > > and universal set-you-free
> > > "truth", once known, brings
> > > with it the certain sense that
> > > awakening to truth is the destiny
> > > of humankind.
> > >
> > > Understanding this, even
> > > intellectually, without the
> > > direct experience of enlightenment,
> > > seems to be why many of the nondual
> > > (no separation) mindset feel
> > > that the "gurus", in their
> > > attunement to and enthusiasm
> > > for this eventuality,
> > > over-promise, and that we
> > > should just allow it to play
> > > out...rather than bemoan
> > > the fact that most people
> > > are not ready for it - today.
> > >
> > > As for the timetable,
> > > that's a different story.
> > > It seems that Mother Nature
> > > or Divine Mother moves at a
> > > very different pace than the
> > > impatience of one lifespan.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jvmarco"
> > > <jvmarco@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Many claim to be dedicated to diverse spiritual realities and
> > personal
> > > > awakening. For most however, the brain, the ego, the pleasure
> > centers,
> > > > etc., do not want you fascinated with the idea of truth or
> waking
> > up.
> > > > Such a burning fascination would bring the demise of the brain,
> > the ego,
> > > > the pleasure centers, etc., as the personal thinking process
> > knows them.
> > > >
> > > > I agree that the truth will set you free, but to have a
> genuine,
> > burning
> > > > fascination with truth is very rare,...most people do not want
> the
> > > > truth, they want useless happiness, and thus its mate, useless
> > > > suffering. The realization of truth will bring the demise of
> > beliefs,
> > > > and the thinking patterns associated with those beliefs.
> > > >
> > > > Today's human community cannot handle the truth,...truth is too
> > profound
> > > > to be consciously included in the lives people seek.
> > > >
> > > > E = mc2 is a partial truth that many accept. Whereas mc2 < c is
> > the
> > > > fuller truth that most refuse to see; a truth in which
> everything
> > (that
> > > > means everything) can be understood through the cognition of
> that
> > simple
> > > > equation. All energy and mass is less than the speed of light.
> > People
> > > > however, cling to the idea of energy and mass as something real,
> > > > something to be worship like the religious superstititions of
> > their
> > > > ancestors. The truth is that energy and mass is not real, nor
> > does it
> > > > exist beyond the dream of separation. Energy is simply the
> motion
> > of
> > > > mass seeking a relationship with its source,...a relationship
> it
> > can
> > > > never have, because the condition of separation cannot merge
> with
> > the
> > > > unconditionality of source. Wholeness is beyond the sum of
> > opposites.
> > > > The sum of opposites is their cancellation.
> > > >
> > > > Every teaching of Buddhism points to the fuller truth of the
> > > > above,...likewise, the Fourth Way philosophy (enneagram) points
> > to the
> > > > above,...and Maya and Bön Cosmology also points to the above.
> Yet
> > > > even the adherents to those philosophies have not gone beyond
> > their
> > > > beliefs to see the truth. Most people, perhaps more than 99% of
> > the
> > > > world's population, are not conscious of even a single full
> > truth,...nor
> > > > do they want to.
> > > >
> > > > People do not want to understand that the quantum process
> applies
> > to
> > > > humans as well as sub-atomic particles. They do not want to
> know
> > that
> > > > there cannot be a present or instant in time. The often
> expressed
> > term
> > > > 'present time' is an oxymoron. Neither science, religion, nor
> New
> > Age
> > > > philosophy desires to move beyond its own theories,...to have a
> > > > renaissance like view of the patterns that weave our existence.
> > So even
> > > > though truth will set us free, few wish to let go of the desire
> of
> > > > useless happiness, that they cling to for their identity, and to
> > > > authentically embrace the truth. Most people do not want
> the "who
> > that
> > > > they think they are" to disappear. They desire to bring their
> > conditions
> > > > into the unconditional,...yet truth will never allow that to
> > occur.
> > > >
> > > > Vicente
> > > > author of mc2 < c
> > > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1425136486
> > > > <http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1425136486>
> > > >
> > >> Equation. All energy and mass is less than the speed of light.

>>>>>One doubt: If energy is the momentum and mass is the relation of
sub atomic particles, Doe's Light exist with out these two factor?
>> Suppose if it exist..Does it become stationery?
>>If Spead of light is higher than energy , then with what energy it
is moving fast without mass?
>> All these three factors work closely and perform the universe
>> which is called ONENESS or the supremity
>> When they are separate, then ultimate emptyness is created i.e
sunya sthith where nothing exists
>> that is the real state of supreme
>> If that is the final goal of the truth
>> There is no need of this creation
>> Master C.V.V clearly explained this to the universe about 100 years
back
>> Attaining eternity is the final goal of creation
>> That is a state of all the three  mass, energy and light together
in one state
>>
>
> >
>

Is bob transforming?
regards

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
<jogeshwarmahanta@...> wrote:
>
> Is bob transforming?
> regards
>
Yo Sri Jogeshwarmahantaji,
Every second every atom changes as does
every cell and organ that constitutes the
entity that is labeled Bob. Similarly the
thoughts and emotions always are in
a transforming state as long as the
physical carrier is in place. But there is a
continuity that is always constant and
that is the Witness to these changes.
And that is the "Real Bob".
Peace and blessings,
Bob

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "vempatig2003" <vempatig2003@...> wrote:
 >>>>>One doubt: If energy is the momentum and mass is the relation of
> sub atomic particles, Doe's Light exist with out these two factor?
> >> Suppose if it exist..Does it become stationery?
> >>If Spead of light is higher than energy , then with what energy it
> is moving fast without mass?
> >> All these three factors work closely and perform the universe
> >> which is called ONENESS or the supremity
> >> When they are separate, then ultimate emptyness is created i.e
> sunya sthith where nothing exists
> >> that is the real state of supreme
> >> If that is the final goal of the truth
> >> There is no need of this creation
> >> Master C.V.V clearly explained this to the universe about 100 years back. Attaining eternity is the final goal of creation
> >> That is a state of all the three  mass, energy and light together
> in one state

V:
No....Mass, energy and Undivided Light cannot exist together in one state.  Energy is the motion of mass which seeks unity with the stillness of Undivided Light, yet can NEVER realize that union.  That is an irrefutable fact.  Ego may not like that fact, but it is the way it is.

mc2<c is clearly explained in:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1425136486

Vicente
:)

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "vempatig2003" <vempatig2003@...> wrote:
>
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
> jeff@ wrote:
> >
> > Great observations. Yes, it may
> > be the destiny, but not if the
> > universe is cancelled - or humans
> > go about to destroy the eco system
> > on earth entirely. So, agreed, not
> > certain.
> >
> > There are 2 classes of Bodhisattva.
> > Those who have attained Buddhahood
> > (enlightenment by any other name
> > is still enlightenment) and yet
> > wait at the gate through which
> > they have already passed, and
> > then come back, for the arrival of
> > all sentient beings. The others
> > are those who are still seeking
> > to overcome the false, and so
> > are, in a sense, naive Boddhisattvas.
> >
> > Clarity, as in the first category
> > of Boddhisattva, leaves no question
> > and brings an abiding recognition
> > of the false.
> >
> > Also agree that many gurus perpetuate
> > the false. Gurus are over-promisers
> > for the most part. In their enthusiasm
> > for the enlightenment they have
> > attained - and the sure sense of
> > the (potential) destiny of humankind
> > to enter the cosmis conscious realm -
> > they "promise" to guide the seeker.
> >
> > But they can only guide by pointing,
> > and cannot teach that which cannot
> > be taught.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jvmarco"
> > <jvmarco@> wrote:
> > >
> > > V:
> > > A potential destiny perhaps, but not a certain one. The time-table
> > > of the Great Feminine could very well cancel out the universe
> > before
> > > such a birthing of human beingness occurred, in which case
> > humankind
> > > would cease to exist.
> > >
> > > From my observations, all meditation eventually leads to Heart-
> > Mind,
> > > and from Heart-Mind is uncovered the compassion of the Bodhisattva
> > to
> > > be dedicated to the liberation from suffering, and the cause of
> > > suffering, for all sentient beings. If such a destiny of truth was
> > > certain, there would be no Bodhisattvas. In other words, one could
> > > say that no Bodhisattva is a guru, if a guru is defined as one who
> > > has an enthusiasm for an eventuality that is is uncertain. Of
> > > course, an authentic Bodhisattva is not the least bit interested in
> > > enlightenment. Their interest is in bringing more light and love
> > > into this reality, not enlightenment.
> > >
> > > One way of bringing more light and love in, is to identify the
> > false
> > > as the false.
> > >
> > > Eckhart Tolle said in 'The Power of Now', page 4, "we need to draw
> > > our attention to what is false in us, for unless we learn to
> > > recognize the false as the false, there can be no lasting
> > > transformation, and you will always be drawn back into illusion,
> > for
> > > that is how the false perpetuates itself" Many guru's actually
> > > perpetuate the false.
> > >
> > >
> > > Vicente
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff Belyea"
> > > <jeff@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > OK, agreed. Yet the consistent
> > > > and universal set-you-free
> > > > "truth", once known, brings
> > > > with it the certain sense that
> > > > awakening to truth is the destiny
> > > > of humankind.
> > > >
> > > > Understanding this, even
> > > > intellectually, without the
> > > > direct experience of enlightenment,
> > > > seems to be why many of the nondual
> > > > (no separation) mindset feel
> > > > that the "gurus", in their
> > > > attunement to and enthusiasm
> > > > for this eventuality,
> > > > over-promise, and that we
> > > > should just allow it to play
> > > > out...rather than bemoan
> > > > the fact that most people
> > > > are not ready for it - today.
> > > >
> > > > As for the timetable,
> > > > that's a different story.
> > > > It seems that Mother Nature
> > > > or Divine Mother moves at a
> > > > very different pace than the
> > > > impatience of one lifespan.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jvmarco"
> > > > <jvmarco@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Many claim to be dedicated to diverse spiritual realities and
> > > personal
> > > > > awakening. For most however, the brain, the ego, the pleasure
> > > centers,
> > > > > etc., do not want you fascinated with the idea of truth or
> > waking
> > > up.
> > > > > Such a burning fascination would bring the demise of the brain,
> > > the ego,
> > > > > the pleasure centers, etc., as the personal thinking process
> > > knows them.
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree that the truth will set you free, but to have a
> > genuine,
> > > burning
> > > > > fascination with truth is very rare,...most people do not want
> > the
> > > > > truth, they want useless happiness, and thus its mate, useless
> > > > > suffering. The realization of truth will bring the demise of
> > > beliefs,
> > > > > and the thinking patterns associated with those beliefs.
> > > > >
> > > > > Today's human community cannot handle the truth,...truth is too
> > > profound
> > > > > to be consciously included in the lives people seek.
> > > > >
> > > > > E = mc2 is a partial truth that many accept. Whereas mc2 < c is
> > > the
> > > > > fuller truth that most refuse to see; a truth in which
> > everything
> > > (that
> > > > > means everything) can be understood through the cognition of
> > that
> > > simple
> > > > > equation. All energy and mass is less than the speed of light.
> > > People
> > > > > however, cling to the idea of energy and mass as something real,
> > > > > something to be worship like the religious superstititions of
> > > their
> > > > > ancestors. The truth is that energy and mass is not real, nor
> > > does it
> > > > > exist beyond the dream of separation. Energy is simply the
> > motion
> > > of
> > > > > mass seeking a relationship with its source,...a relationship
> > it
> > > can
> > > > > never have, because the condition of separation cannot merge
> > with
> > > the
> > > > > unconditionality of source. Wholeness is beyond the sum of
> > > opposites.
> > > > > The sum of opposites is their cancellation.
> > > > >
> > > > > Every teaching of Buddhism points to the fuller truth of the
> > > > > above,...likewise, the Fourth Way philosophy (enneagram) points
> > > to the
> > > > > above,...and Maya and Bön Cosmology also points to the above.
> > Yet
> > > > > even the adherents to those philosophies have not gone beyond
> > > their
> > > > > beliefs to see the truth. Most people, perhaps more than 99% of
> > > the
> > > > > world's population, are not conscious of even a single full
> > > truth,...nor
> > > > > do they want to.
> > > > >
> > > > > People do not want to understand that the quantum process
> > applies
> > > to
> > > > > humans as well as sub-atomic particles. They do not want to
> > know
> > > that
> > > > > there cannot be a present or instant in time. The often
> > expressed
> > > term
> > > > > 'present time' is an oxymoron. Neither science, religion, nor
> > New
> > > Age
> > > > > philosophy desires to move beyond its own theories,...to have a
> > > > > renaissance like view of the patterns that weave our existence.
> > > So even
> > > > > though truth will set us free, few wish to let go of the desire
> > of
> > > > > useless happiness, that they cling to for their identity, and to
> > > > > authentically embrace the truth. Most people do not want
> > the "who
> > > that
> > > > > they think they are" to disappear. They desire to bring their
> > > conditions
> > > > > into the unconditional,...yet truth will never allow that to
> > > occur.
> > > > >
> > > > > Vicente
> > > > > author of mc2 < c
> > > > > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1425136486
> > > > > <http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1425136486>
> > > > >
> > > >> Equation. All energy and mass is less than the speed of light.
>
> >>>>>One doubt: If energy is the momentum and mass is the relation of
> sub atomic particles, Doe's Light exist with out these two factor?
> >> Suppose if it exist..Does it become stationery?
> >>If Spead of light is higher than energy , then with what energy it
> is moving fast without mass?
> >> All these three factors work closely and perform the universe
> >> which is called ONENESS or the supremity
> >> When they are separate, then ultimate emptyness is created i.e
> sunya sthith where nothing exists
> >> that is the real state of supreme
> >> If that is the final goal of the truth
> >> There is no need of this creation
> >> Master C.V.V clearly explained this to the universe about 100 years
> back
> >> Attaining eternity is the final goal of creation
> >> That is a state of all the three mass, energy and light together
> in one state
> >>
> >
> > >
> >
>

Very well said Bob dear. But what I hinted at is "If change is
inevitable then why not towards better and better and better......"
  Eros and thanatos are constantly acting against each other and by
transformation I meant the "continuity" of extinguishing thanatos
and reinforcing eros and not surrendering to thanatos.
regards


--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> --- In
meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "jogeshwarmahanta"
> <jogeshwarmahanta@> wrote:
> >
> > Is bob transforming?
> > regards
> >
> Yo Sri Jogeshwarmahantaji,
> Every second every atom changes as does
> every cell and organ that constitutes the
> entity that is labeled Bob. Similarly the
> thoughts and emotions always are in
> a transforming state as long as the
> physical carrier is in place. But there is a
> continuity that is always constant and
> that is the Witness to these changes.
> And that is the "Real Bob".
> Peace and blessings,
> Bob
>

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1224 - Release Date: 1/14/08 5:39 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTfEXfA7OAs


  Says, that the GOD what people think God is not god. God can not be
know, truly known, those who think they know, know nothing: the
ignorant think they know, the wise *know it beyond knowledge.

  When you see, that God works through you in every moment..enter
eternal life.

  Nice bit from Upanishads read by Ram Das.

ERa wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTfEXfA7OAs
>
>
>  Says, that the GOD what people think God is not god. God can not be
> know, truly known, those who think they know, know nothing: the
> ignorant think they know, the wise *know it beyond knowledge.
>
>  When you see, that God works through you in every moment..enter
> eternal life.
>
>  Nice bit from Upanishads read by Ram Das.
>
Such a teaching is the heart of
the ancient Jewish prohibition
against saying the "actual"
name of "God."  It also is in
the Commandment against "graven
images," because any "image" of
"God" we have "graven" in our
imaginations by definition
diminishes that unknowable,
actual "God."

GREETINGS AND BEST WISHES IN YOUR SPIRITUAL JOURNEY.

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and uplinked with the article "KAUMARAM YAUVANAM JARA
(Childhood Youth and Oldage) – a spiritual explanation."

- If you visit the site, and have any observations to make, I shall
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Bruce Morgen <editor@...> wrote:
>
> ERa wrote:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTfEXfA7OAs
> >
> >
> >  Says, that the GOD what people think God is not god. God can not be
> > know, truly known, those who think they know, know nothing: the
> > ignorant think they know, the wise *know it beyond knowledge.
> >
> >  When you see, that God works through you in every moment..enter
> > eternal life.
> >
> >  Nice bit from Upanishads read by Ram Das.
> >
> Such a teaching is the heart of
> the ancient Jewish prohibition
> against saying the "actual"
> name of "God."  It also is in
> the Commandment against "graven
> images," because any "image" of
> "God" we have "graven" in our
> imaginations by definition
> diminishes that unknowable,
> actual "God."
>
You Sri Era and Sri Bruceji,

This somewhat segues well into the concept that
if you obey the first of the 10 Commandments,
"Thou shalt put no other gods before Me", you will
be obeying all 613 Thou shalt and Thou shalt nots
that are in the Old Testament. Similarly, even if
you are obeying all the other commandments, if
you are not obeying the first, you are sinning.
This means that one should always be thinking
about and be available to God. And as an empty
vehicle God will fill you with Her/His Divine
energy, wisdom and blessings. So, if for instance
you are thinking about your car, that car has become
a god for you that has been put before The God.
And that would be "sinning", whatever that means.
That's why we find examples in every religious
tradition of monks, priests, Lamas, nuns, Rabbi's,
etc, chanting prayers to God or saying Her/His name
non-stop. As we read and interact right this moment
there is no doubt that millions of people are doing
this devotional action.
It is said that Mantra is the easiest path to Enlightenment
(once again…whatever that means). A "proof" of this
is given in the description of Krishna playing his flute.
The music caused the ladies to drop whatever they were
doing and to experience divine ecstasy. This is because
the flute was pure of all impurities and had nothing to
block God's celestial harmonies. The analogy is that
we too should be empty of all blocks to the cosmic
flow, and those blockages are characterized as negative
aspects of personality like anger, hate, cold-heartedness,
being uncharitable, selfishness, etc.  And if we are
always chanting God's name, we are not doing any of
those things which would make our flutes too dirty to
sound pure chords, and we become perfect instruments
for God to interact with his creation. And as we are
obeying the first Command, we are also obeying all the
Commands and we will live happily ever after.

Peace and blessings,
Bob

In response to Bob and Bruce's
response to Era's post about
"knowing God"...

Here's my "little bit of this,
little bit of that" from my dance:

From The Old Testament
(repeated in the New One
and reference several times
as "having come to pass"):

"Behold, the days come,
saith the LORD, that I
will make a a new covenant...

I will put my law in their
inward parts, and write it in
their hearts; ...

they shall all know me."

So, if the wise say that
they know that God is
unknowable, they err. And
they are wise in their
own mind - which is
incidently the major block
to enlightenment.

Enlightenment IS coming
into the knowledgable
presence of God..
as promised.

I know God.

Formally introduced
July 21, many years ago,
at about 9:30am.

And we continue to
stay in touch.

Call me ignorant if
you must. God knows.

Jeff

OK, it's "knowledgeable".

Jeff Belyea wrote:
> In response to Bob and Bruce's
> response to Era's post about
> "knowing God"...
>
> Here's my "little bit of this,
> little bit of that" from my dance:
>
> >From The Old Testament
> (repeated in the New One
> and reference several times
> as "having come to pass"):
>
> "Behold, the days come,
> saith the LORD, that I
> will make a a new covenant...
>
> I will put my law in their
> inward parts, and write it in
> their hearts; ...
>
> they shall all know me."
>
> So, if the wise say that
> they know that God is
> unknowable, they err. And
> they are wise in their
> own mind - which is
> incidently the major block
> to enlightenment.
>
> Enlightenment IS coming
> into the knowledgable
> presence of God..
> as promised.
>
> I know God.
>
> Formally introduced
> July 21, many years ago,
> at about 9:30am.
>
> And we continue to
> stay in touch.
>
> Call me ignorant if
> you must. God knows.
>
I see you as not "ignorant,"
but perhaps playing somewhat
fast and loose with the word
"knowledge," which essentially
means "stored information."

As an illustration, can you
tell me what it is you "know"
of this "God?"

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
<editor@...> wrote:
>
> Jeff Belyea wrote:
> > In response to Bob and Bruce's
> > response to Era's post about
> > "knowing God"...
> >
> > Here's my "little bit of this,
> > little bit of that" from my dance:
> >
> > >From The Old Testament
> > (repeated in the New One
> > and reference several times
> > as "having come to pass"):
> >
> > "Behold, the days come,
> > saith the LORD, that I
> > will make a a new covenant...
> >
> > I will put my law in their
> > inward parts, and write it in
> > their hearts; ...
> >
> > they shall all know me."
> >
> > So, if the wise say that
> > they know that God is
> > unknowable, they err. And
> > they are wise in their
> > own mind - which is
> > incidently the major block
> > to enlightenment.
> >
> > Enlightenment IS coming
> > into the knowledgable
> > presence of God..
> > as promised.
> >
> > I know God.
> >
> > Formally introduced
> > July 21, many years ago,
> > at about 9:30am.
> >
> > And we continue to
> > stay in touch.
> >
> > Call me ignorant if
> > you must. God knows.
> >
> I see you as not "ignorant,"
> but perhaps playing somewhat
> fast and loose with the word
> "knowledge," which essentially
> means "stored information."
>
> As an illustration, can you
> tell me what it is you "know"
> of this "God?"
>

It is the inadequacy of words
to explain the fuller meaning
of "Knowledge" in the context
of my earlier post that makes it
seem as a fast and loose dance.

Knowledge becomes secondary stored
information when it enters
the necessarily dualistic world
of mental reflection and any
attemp at "telling".

God can be Known, but God
cannot be explained in words;
only Known by direct experience...
which, to be redundant, is
beyond words.

Thanks, Bruce. Always
enjoy your perspective.

Jeff

Another incident of
accidental typing.

Thank you, Aideen.

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Aideen McKenna"
<aideenmck@...> wrote:
>
> …and it's "incidentally"  :-)
>
>
>
>    _____
>
> From: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Jeff Belyea
> Sent: January 17, 2008 9:21 AM
> To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Meditation Society of America] God doesn't rank on
spelling.
>
>
>
>
> OK, it's "knowledgeable"-.
>
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.5/1228 - Release Date:
1/16/08
> 9:01 AM
>
>
>
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.6/1229 - Release Date:
1/17/08
> 11:12 AM
>

Jeff Belyea wrote:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
> <editor@...> wrote:
>
>> Jeff Belyea wrote:
>>
>>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
>>> response to Era's post about
>>> "knowing God"...
>>>
>>> Here's my "little bit of this,
>>> little bit of that" from my dance:
>>>
>>> >From The Old Testament
>>> (repeated in the New One
>>> and reference several times
>>> as "having come to pass"):
>>>
>>> "Behold, the days come,
>>> saith the LORD, that I
>>> will make a a new covenant...
>>>
>>> I will put my law in their
>>> inward parts, and write it in
>>> their hearts; ...
>>>
>>> they shall all know me."
>>>
>>> So, if the wise say that
>>> they know that God is
>>> unknowable, they err. And
>>> they are wise in their
>>> own mind - which is
>>> incidently the major block
>>> to enlightenment.
>>>
>>> Enlightenment IS coming
>>> into the knowledgable
>>> presence of God..
>>> as promised.
>>>
>>> I know God.
>>>
>>> Formally introduced
>>> July 21, many years ago,
>>> at about 9:30am.
>>>
>>> And we continue to
>>> stay in touch.
>>>
>>> Call me ignorant if
>>> you must. God knows.
>>>
>>>
>> I see you as not "ignorant,"
>> but perhaps playing somewhat
>> fast and loose with the word
>> "knowledge," which essentially
>> means "stored information."
>>
>> As an illustration, can you
>> tell me what it is you "know"
>> of this "God?"
>>
>>
>
> It is the inadequacy of words
> to explain the fuller meaning
> of "Knowledge" in the context
> of my earlier post that makes it
> seem as a fast and loose dance.
>

True.

> Knowledge becomes secondary stored
> information when it enters
> the necessarily dualistic world
> of mental reflection and any
> attempt at "telling".
>

True.

> God can be Known, but God
> cannot be explained in words;
> only Known by direct experience...
> which, to be redundant, is
> beyond words.
>

Iow, "unknowable" -- and
capitalizing that "K"
doesn't change that fact.

Please consider that
fortunate "realized" folks
still have the failings of
incarnate life to deal with.
Religious conditioning is
especially problematic and
can easily lead to mistaking
the ecstatic response of our
personal meat puppets to the
unknowable (aka "Holy
Spirit") with "knowing God"
or some such -- our heads
are full of old scripture
vouchsafing this knowledge
to us, so in the aftermoment
ego "backfills" the miracle
of realization with that
stuff and we are quite prone
to claiming that we now
"know God."  It sure sounds
good from the pulpit too!

> Thanks, Bruce. Always
> enjoy your perspective.
>

Right back atcha, Jeff!

> Jeff
>
Much love -- Bruce

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
<editor@...> wrote:
>
> Jeff Belyea wrote:
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
> > <editor@> wrote:
> >
> >> Jeff Belyea wrote:
> >>
> >>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
> >>> response to Era's post about
> >>> "knowing God"...
> >>>
> >>> Here's my "little bit of this,
> >>> little bit of that" from my dance:
> >>>
> >>> >From The Old Testament
> >>> (repeated in the New One
> >>> and reference several times
> >>> as "having come to pass"):
> >>>
> >>> "Behold, the days come,
> >>> saith the LORD, that I
> >>> will make a a new covenant...
> >>>
> >>> I will put my law in their
> >>> inward parts, and write it in
> >>> their hearts; ...
> >>>
> >>> they shall all know me."
> >>>
> >>> So, if the wise say that
> >>> they know that God is
> >>> unknowable, they err. And
> >>> they are wise in their
> >>> own mind - which is
> >>> incidently the major block
> >>> to enlightenment.
> >>>
> >>> Enlightenment IS coming
> >>> into the knowledgable
> >>> presence of God..
> >>> as promised.
> >>>
> >>> I know God.
> >>>
> >>> Formally introduced
> >>> July 21, many years ago,
> >>> at about 9:30am.
> >>>
> >>> And we continue to
> >>> stay in touch.
> >>>
> >>> Call me ignorant if
> >>> you must. God knows.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> I see you as not "ignorant,"
> >> but perhaps playing somewhat
> >> fast and loose with the word
> >> "knowledge," which essentially
> >> means "stored information."
> >>
> >> As an illustration, can you
> >> tell me what it is you "know"
> >> of this "God?"
> >>
> >>
> >
> > It is the inadequacy of words
> > to explain the fuller meaning
> > of "Knowledge" in the context
> > of my earlier post that makes it
> > seem as a fast and loose dance.
> >
>
> True.
>
> > Knowledge becomes secondary stored
> > information when it enters
> > the necessarily dualistic world
> > of mental reflection and any
> > attempt at "telling".
> >
>
> True.
>
> > God can be Known, but God
> > cannot be explained in words;
> > only Known by direct experience...
> > which, to be redundant, is
> > beyond words.
> >
>
> Iow, "unknowable" -- and
> capitalizing that "K"
> doesn't change that fact.
>
> Please consider that
> fortunate "realized" folks
> still have the failings of
> incarnate life to deal with.
> Religious conditioning is
> especially problematic and
> can easily lead to mistaking
> the ecstatic response of our
> personal meat puppets to the
> unknowable (aka "Holy
> Spirit") with "knowing God"
> or some such -- our heads
> are full of old scripture
> vouchsafing this knowledge
> to us, so in the aftermoment
> ego "backfills" the miracle
> of realization with that
> stuff and we are quite prone
> to claiming that we now
> "know God."  It sure sounds
> good from the pulpit too!
>
> > Thanks, Bruce. Always
> > enjoy your perspective.
> >
>
> Right back atcha, Jeff!
>
> > Jeff
> >
> Much love -- Bruce
>

Interesting syntax -
ego backfilling vs new
enlightened understanding
of scripture. There would
be more of a case for the
headroom filled with
scripture that is used
by the ego to backfill,
if the backfilling were
model specific (the home
of the fundamentalist),
but when the knowledge
with a capital K (a literary
and graphic design convention,
I know) reveals a core
understanding in all
spiritual traditions
(the mystical path),
the case is less
convincing.

The meat puppets who
think morph into meat
puppets who have a
pseudo-spiritual experience?

Cosmic, man.

I'll take theist language,
thanks. Sure sounds better
from the pulpit - especially
when it comes from the
mystic heart of Knowledge.

Thanks,

Cosmic Man

PS: Just had flashback
to the punch and Judy days.

Jeff knows this, but just for
clarity: I'm not questioning
his authenticity, just noting
what I see as the pitfalls of
adopting theistic expression.
We all have to weigh pulpit
impact vs. possibly misleading
or occluding effects, and we
tend to make our calls based
on conditioning -- both the
environmental conditioning of
our upbringings (cum other
formative experiences) and the
biological/genetic conditioning
that determines our places on
the bhakta-jnana spectrum.

Thanks for the dialogue, Jeff!


Jeff Belyea wrote:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
> <editor@...> wrote:
>
>> Jeff Belyea wrote:
>>
>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
>>> <editor@> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Jeff Belyea wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
>>>>> response to Era's post about
>>>>> "knowing God"...
>>>>>
>>>>> Here's my "little bit of this,
>>>>> little bit of that" from my dance:
>>>>>
>>>>> >From The Old Testament
>>>>> (repeated in the New One
>>>>> and reference several times
>>>>> as "having come to pass"):
>>>>>
>>>>> "Behold, the days come,
>>>>> saith the LORD, that I
>>>>> will make a a new covenant...
>>>>>
>>>>> I will put my law in their
>>>>> inward parts, and write it in
>>>>> their hearts; ...
>>>>>
>>>>> they shall all know me."
>>>>>
>>>>> So, if the wise say that
>>>>> they know that God is
>>>>> unknowable, they err. And
>>>>> they are wise in their
>>>>> own mind - which is
>>>>> incidently the major block
>>>>> to enlightenment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Enlightenment IS coming
>>>>> into the knowledgable
>>>>> presence of God..
>>>>> as promised.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know God.
>>>>>
>>>>> Formally introduced
>>>>> July 21, many years ago,
>>>>> at about 9:30am.
>>>>>
>>>>> And we continue to
>>>>> stay in touch.
>>>>>
>>>>> Call me ignorant if
>>>>> you must. God knows.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I see you as not "ignorant,"
>>>> but perhaps playing somewhat
>>>> fast and loose with the word
>>>> "knowledge," which essentially
>>>> means "stored information."
>>>>
>>>> As an illustration, can you
>>>> tell me what it is you "know"
>>>> of this "God?"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It is the inadequacy of words
>>> to explain the fuller meaning
>>> of "Knowledge" in the context
>>> of my earlier post that makes it
>>> seem as a fast and loose dance.
>>>
>>>
>> True.
>>
>>
>>> Knowledge becomes secondary stored
>>> information when it enters
>>> the necessarily dualistic world
>>> of mental reflection and any
>>> attempt at "telling".
>>>
>>>
>> True.
>>
>>
>>> God can be Known, but God
>>> cannot be explained in words;
>>> only Known by direct experience...
>>> which, to be redundant, is
>>> beyond words.
>>>
>>>
>> Iow, "unknowable" -- and
>> capitalizing that "K"
>> doesn't change that fact.
>>
>> Please consider that
>> fortunate "realized" folks
>> still have the failings of
>> incarnate life to deal with.
>> Religious conditioning is
>> especially problematic and
>> can easily lead to mistaking
>> the ecstatic response of our
>> personal meat puppets to the
>> unknowable (aka "Holy
>> Spirit") with "knowing God"
>> or some such -- our heads
>> are full of old scripture
>> vouchsafing this knowledge
>> to us, so in the aftermoment
>> ego "backfills" the miracle
>> of realization with that
>> stuff and we are quite prone
>> to claiming that we now
>> "know God."  It sure sounds
>> good from the pulpit too!
>>
>>
>>> Thanks, Bruce. Always
>>> enjoy your perspective.
>>>
>>>
>> Right back atcha, Jeff!
>>
>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>> Much love -- Bruce
>>
>>
>
> Interesting syntax -
> ego backfilling vs new
> enlightened understanding
> of scripture. There would
> be more of a case for the
> headroom filled with
> scripture that is used
> by the ego to backfill,
> if the backfilling were
> model specific (the home
> of the fundamentalist),
> but when the knowledge
> with a capital K (a literary
> and graphic design convention,
> I know) reveals a core
> understanding in all
> spiritual traditions
> (the mystical path),
> the case is less
> convincing.
>
> The meat puppets who
> think morph into meat
> puppets who have a
> pseudo-spiritual experience?
>
> Cosmic, man.
>
> I'll take theist language,
> thanks. Sure sounds better
> from the pulpit - especially
> when it comes from the
> mystic heart of Knowledge.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Cosmic Man
>
> PS: Just had flashback
> to the punch and Judy days.
>
>

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen <editor@...>
wrote:
>
> Jeff knows this, but just for
> clarity: I'm not questioning
> his authenticity, just noting
> what I see as the pitfalls of
> adopting theistic expression.
> We all have to weigh pulpit
> impact vs. possibly misleading
> or occluding effects, and we
> tend to make our calls based
> on conditioning -- both the
> environmental conditioning of
> our upbringings (cum other
> formative experiences) and the
> biological/genetic conditioning
> that determines our places on
> the bhakta-jnana spectrum.
>
> Thanks for the dialogue, Jeff!

You're welcome, Bruce.
True, your responses to
me are never taken as
questioning authenticity.

I couldn't help but note
the "plot twist" at the end
of your post. Two of us
from Judeo (you)-Christian (me)
backgrounds discussing
the pros and pitfalls of
theistic language ends with
a reference to  the bhakta-
jnana spectrum. Smilling.

How about, God is knowable,
but not wordable?

Peace, love and blessings,

Jeff

PS: Not sure why you mixed
in the little aside about fortunate
"realized" ones having to cope with
the slings and arrows of life on
earth, but, of course, agreed.

Above the fray (in a way), but not
above stubbing a toe on a bedpost
during a night-time sojourn...
and spouting a burst of profanity.





>
>
> Jeff Belyea wrote:
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
> > <editor@> wrote:
> >
> >> Jeff Belyea wrote:
> >>
> >>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
> >>> <editor@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Jeff Belyea wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
> >>>>> response to Era's post about
> >>>>> "knowing God"...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here's my "little bit of this,
> >>>>> little bit of that" from my dance:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> >From The Old Testament
> >>>>> (repeated in the New One
> >>>>> and reference several times
> >>>>> as "having come to pass"):
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Behold, the days come,
> >>>>> saith the LORD, that I
> >>>>> will make a a new covenant...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I will put my law in their
> >>>>> inward parts, and write it in
> >>>>> their hearts; ...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> they shall all know me."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, if the wise say that
> >>>>> they know that God is
> >>>>> unknowable, they err. And
> >>>>> they are wise in their
> >>>>> own mind - which is
> >>>>> incidently the major block
> >>>>> to enlightenment.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Enlightenment IS coming
> >>>>> into the knowledgable
> >>>>> presence of God..
> >>>>> as promised.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I know God.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Formally introduced
> >>>>> July 21, many years ago,
> >>>>> at about 9:30am.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And we continue to
> >>>>> stay in touch.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Call me ignorant if
> >>>>> you must. God knows.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> I see you as not "ignorant,"
> >>>> but perhaps playing somewhat
> >>>> fast and loose with the word
> >>>> "knowledge," which essentially
> >>>> means "stored information."
> >>>>
> >>>> As an illustration, can you
> >>>> tell me what it is you "know"
> >>>> of this "God?"
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> It is the inadequacy of words
> >>> to explain the fuller meaning
> >>> of "Knowledge" in the context
> >>> of my earlier post that makes it
> >>> seem as a fast and loose dance.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> True.
> >>
> >>
> >>> Knowledge becomes secondary stored
> >>> information when it enters
> >>> the necessarily dualistic world
> >>> of mental reflection and any
> >>> attempt at "telling".
> >>>
> >>>
> >> True.
> >>
> >>
> >>> God can be Known, but God
> >>> cannot be explained in words;
> >>> only Known by direct experience...
> >>> which, to be redundant, is
> >>> beyond words.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Iow, "unknowable" -- and
> >> capitalizing that "K"
> >> doesn't change that fact.
> >>
> >> Please consider that
> >> fortunate "realized" folks
> >> still have the failings of
> >> incarnate life to deal with.
> >> Religious conditioning is
> >> especially problematic and
> >> can easily lead to mistaking
> >> the ecstatic response of our
> >> personal meat puppets to the
> >> unknowable (aka "Holy
> >> Spirit") with "knowing God"
> >> or some such -- our heads
> >> are full of old scripture
> >> vouchsafing this knowledge
> >> to us, so in the aftermoment
> >> ego "backfills" the miracle
> >> of realization with that
> >> stuff and we are quite prone
> >> to claiming that we now
> >> "know God."  It sure sounds
> >> good from the pulpit too!
> >>
> >>
> >>> Thanks, Bruce. Always
> >>> enjoy your perspective.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Right back atcha, Jeff!
> >>
> >>
> >>> Jeff
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Much love -- Bruce
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Interesting syntax -
> > ego backfilling vs new
> > enlightened understanding
> > of scripture. There would
> > be more of a case for the
> > headroom filled with
> > scripture that is used
> > by the ego to backfill,
> > if the backfilling were
> > model specific (the home
> > of the fundamentalist),
> > but when the knowledge
> > with a capital K (a literary
> > and graphic design convention,
> > I know) reveals a core
> > understanding in all
> > spiritual traditions
> > (the mystical path),
> > the case is less
> > convincing.
> >
> > The meat puppets who
> > think morph into meat
> > puppets who have a
> > pseudo-spiritual experience?
> >
> > Cosmic, man.
> >
> > I'll take theist language,
> > thanks. Sure sounds better
> > from the pulpit - especially
> > when it comes from the
> > mystic heart of Knowledge.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Cosmic Man
> >
> > PS: Just had flashback
> > to the punch and Judy days.
> >
> >
>

Jeff Belyea wrote:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen <editor@...>
wrote:
>
>> Jeff knows this, but just for
>> clarity: I'm not questioning
>> his authenticity, just noting
>> what I see as the pitfalls of
>> adopting theistic expression.
>> We all have to weigh pulpit
>> impact vs. possibly misleading
>> or occluding effects, and we
>> tend to make our calls based
>> on conditioning -- both the
>> environmental conditioning of
>> our upbringings (cum other
>> formative experiences) and the
>> biological/genetic conditioning
>> that determines our places on
>> the bhakta-jnana spectrum.
>>
>> Thanks for the dialogue, Jeff!
>>
>
> You're welcome, Bruce.
> True, your responses to
> me are never taken as
> questioning authenticity.
>
> I couldn't help but note
> the "plot twist" at the end
> of your post. Two of us
> from Judeo (you)-Christian (me)
> backgrounds discussing
> the pros and pitfalls of
> theistic language ends with
> a reference to  the bhakta-
> jnana spectrum. Smilling.
>
> How about, God is knowable,
> but not wordable?
>

No sale --  but thanks for
playing!               :-)

> Peace, love and blessings,
>

Right back atcha!

> Jeff
>
> PS: Not sure why you mixed
> in the little aside about fortunate
> "realized" ones having to cope with
> the slings and arrows of life on
> earth, but, of course, agreed.
>
Because our language
preferences tend to be part
and parcel of conditioning
rather than imparted by our
"Holy Spirit" encounter(s).

> Above the fray (in a way), but not
> above stubbing a toe on a bedpost
> during a night-time sojourn...
> and spouting a burst of profanity.
>
bcnu around, Jeff!

>
>
>
>> Jeff Belyea wrote:
>>
>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
>>> <editor@> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Jeff Belyea wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
>>>>> <editor@> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeff Belyea wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In response to Bob and Bruce's
>>>>>>> response to Era's post about
>>>>>>> "knowing God"...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here's my "little bit of this,
>>>>>>> little bit of that" from my dance:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >From The Old Testament
>>>>>>> (repeated in the New One
>>>>>>> and reference several times
>>>>>>> as "having come to pass"):
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Behold, the days come,
>>>>>>> saith the LORD, that I
>>>>>>> will make a a new covenant...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will put my law in their
>>>>>>> inward parts, and write it in
>>>>>>> their hearts; ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> they shall all know me."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, if the wise say that
>>>>>>> they know that God is
>>>>>>> unknowable, they err. And
>>>>>>> they are wise in their
>>>>>>> own mind - which is
>>>>>>> incidently the major block
>>>>>>> to enlightenment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Enlightenment IS coming
>>>>>>> into the knowledgable
>>>>>>> presence of God..
>>>>>>> as promised.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I know God.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Formally introduced
>>>>>>> July 21, many years ago,
>>>>>>> at about 9:30am.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And we continue to
>>>>>>> stay in touch.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Call me ignorant if
>>>>>>> you must. God knows.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see you as not "ignorant,"
>>>>>> but perhaps playing somewhat
>>>>>> fast and loose with the word
>>>>>> "knowledge," which essentially
>>>>>> means "stored information."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As an illustration, can you
>>>>>> tell me what it is you "know"
>>>>>> of this "God?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> It is the inadequacy of words
>>>>> to explain the fuller meaning
>>>>> of "Knowledge" in the context
>>>>> of my earlier post that makes it
>>>>> seem as a fast and loose dance.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> True.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Knowledge becomes secondary stored
>>>>> information when it enters
>>>>> the necessarily dualistic world
>>>>> of mental reflection and any
>>>>> attempt at "telling".
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> True.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> God can be Known, but God
>>>>> cannot be explained in words;
>>>>> only Known by direct experience...
>>>>> which, to be redundant, is
>>>>> beyond words.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Iow, "unknowable" -- and
>>>> capitalizing that "K"
>>>> doesn't change that fact.
>>>>
>>>> Please consider that
>>>> fortunate "realized" folks
>>>> still have the failings of
>>>> incarnate life to deal with.
>>>> Religious conditioning is
>>>> especially problematic and
>>>> can easily lead to mistaking
>>>> the ecstatic response of our
>>>> personal meat puppets to the
>>>> unknowable (aka "Holy
>>>> Spirit") with "knowing God"
>>>> or some such -- our heads
>>>> are full of old scripture
>>>> vouchsafing this knowledge
>>>> to us, so in the aftermoment
>>>> ego "backfills" the miracle
>>>> of realization with that
>>>> stuff and we are quite prone
>>>> to claiming that we now
>>>> "know God."  It sure sounds
>>>> good from the pulpit too!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Bruce. Always
>>>>> enjoy your perspective.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Right back atcha, Jeff!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Much love -- Bruce
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Interesting syntax -
>>> ego backfilling vs new
>>> enlightened understanding
>>> of scripture. There would
>>> be more of a case for the
>>> headroom filled with
>>> scripture that is used
>>> by the ego to backfill,
>>> if the backfilling were
>>> model specific (the home
>>> of the fundamentalist),
>>> but when the knowledge
>>> with a capital K (a literary
>>> and graphic design convention,
>>> I know) reveals a core
>>> understanding in all
>>> spiritual traditions
>>> (the mystical path),
>>> the case is less
>>> convincing.
>>>
>>> The meat puppets who
>>> think morph into meat
>>> puppets who have a
>>> pseudo-spiritual experience?
>>>
>>> Cosmic, man.
>>>
>>> I'll take theist language,
>>> thanks. Sure sounds better
>>> from the pulpit - especially
>>> when it comes from the
>>> mystic heart of Knowledge.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Cosmic Man
>>>
>>> PS: Just had flashback
>>> to the punch and Judy days.
>>>
>>>