Sogyal Rinpoche says than meditation is 25% focus on the breath, 25%
focus on remaining alert & wakeful & 50% focus on spaciousness.  To
what is he referring when he uses the term "spaciousness"?

Sogyal Rinpoche says than meditation is 25% focus on the breath, 25%
focus on remaining alert & wakeful & 50% focus on spaciousness.  To
what is he referring when he uses the term "spaciousness"?

And not on favourable spontaneity?

regards,
Jogeshwar



--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep
<sandeep1960@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> aideenmck wrote:
>
> > Sogyal Rinpoche says than meditation is 25% focus on the breath,
25%
> > focus on remaining alert & wakeful & 50% focus on spaciousness.  To
> > what is he referring when he uses the term "spaciousness"?
>
>
>
> *The absence of the conceptualization and thus the question on
> spaciousness.*
>

And not on favourable spontaneity?

regards,
Jogeshwar

---

Dear Sandeep,

Can you accomodate the following realities?

The opposing forces, eros/life instinct/centripetal forces and
thanotos/death instinct/centrifugal forces are operating
spontaneously in us. The purpose of meditation is to maximise the
former and minimise the later.

regards,
Jogeshwar






--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep
<sandeep1960@...> wrote:
>
> *
>
> In spontaneity, there is neither the  favourable nor the
unfavourable.
>
> In spontaneity, there is no consciousness about spontaneity.
>
> **And  there is nothing which is not spontaneous.:-)
>
>
> *
>
> jogeshwarmahanta wrote:
>
> > And not on favourable spontaneity?
> >
> > regards,
> > Jogeshwar
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> >
>

Dear Sandeep,

Can you accomodate the following realities?

The opposing forces, eros/life instinct/centripetal forces and
thanotos/death instinct/centrifugal forces are operating
spontaneously in us. The purpose of meditation is to maximise the
former and minimise the later.

regards,
Jogeshwar






--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep
<sandeep1960@...> wrote:
>
> *
>
> In spontaneity, there is neither the  favourable nor the
unfavourable.
>
> In spontaneity, there is no consciousness about spontaneity.
> 
> **And  there is nothing which is not spontaneous.:-)
>
>
> *
>
> jogeshwarmahanta wrote:
>
> > And not on favourable spontaneity?
> >
> > regards,
> > Jogeshwar
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------
-------
> >
>

Crowding or clarity?

regards,
Jogeshwar









--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep
<sandeep1960@...> wrote:
>
>
> *
> In the presence of a sense of purpose*, *there is no meditation.
>
> Which is not to say that activities do not happen, with which is
> associated a sense of purpose and which is then believed to be
meditation.
> *
>
>
> *The maximizing/minimizing hoopla,  viewed as profound meditation
is no
> different to the same hoopla in the market place.
>
>
> The same round and round the mulberry bush.
>
> Just that the bush has been replaced.:-)
>
>
>
> **In meditativeness, there is the absence of the sense of the
entity,
>
> and thus the absence of the sense of a distinction, the sense of
any
> distinction,
>
> and thus the absence of any craving to maximize something or
minimize
> something else.
>
>
>
>
>
> In a deeper sense (so to say).........even this distinction of
what is
> meditativeness and what is not.........really has no basis.
>
> Which means, that in all the sense of the attempts to maximize
something
> or minimize something else, .....
>
> ....nothing is actually getting maximized or minimized.
>
>
>
>
> Thus spaciousness, meditativeness  .........is the very absence of
the
> presence of concepts of "spaciousness", "meditativeness".....
>
> .....AND....
>
> .....the absence of the absence of the **presence of concepts of
> "spaciousness", "meditativeness".
>
>
>
> *
>
>
>
>
> jogeshwarmahanta wrote:
>
> > Dear Sandeep,
> >
> > Can you accomodate the following realities?
> >
> > The opposing forces, eros/life instinct/centripetal forces and
> > thanotos/death instinct/centrifugal forces are operating
> > spontaneously in us. The purpose of meditation is to maximise the
> > former and minimise the later.
> >
> > regards,
> > Jogeshwar
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep
> > <sandeep1960@> wrote:
> > >
> > > *
> > >
> > > In spontaneity, there is neither the  favourable nor the
> > unfavourable.
> > >
> > > In spontaneity, there is no consciousness about spontaneity.
> > >
> > > **And  there is nothing which is not spontaneous.:-)
> > >
> > >
> > > *
> > >
> > > jogeshwarmahanta wrote:
> > >
> > > > And not on favourable spontaneity?
> > > >
> > > > regards,
> > > > Jogeshwar
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------
----
> > -------
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SPONSORED LINKS
> > Health and wellness
> > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?
t=ms&k=Health+and+wellness&w1=Health+and+wellness&w2=Alternative+medi
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> >
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>

The true meditative state is
the spontaneous absence of all
intent.  When such a state
becomes the default perceptual
(non-)condition associated with
a nominal individual (i.e. when
there's no service for said
individual's thoughts to perform
on the host organism's behalf),
it is often referred to as
"realization," "enlightenment,"
or some such hoopla -- one
supposes on account of its
apparent rarity among our
species.


Sandeep wrote:

>
> *
> In the presence of a sense of purpose*, *there is no meditation.
>
> Which is not to say that activities do not happen, with which is
> associated a sense of purpose and which is then believed to be meditation.
> *
>
>
> *The maximizing/minimizing hoopla,  viewed as profound meditation is
> no different to the same hoopla in the market place.
>
>
> The same round and round the mulberry bush.
>
> Just that the bush has been replaced.:-)
>
>
>
> **In meditativeness, there is the absence of the sense of the entity,
>
> and thus the absence of the sense of a distinction, the sense of any
> distinction,
>
> and thus the absence of any craving to maximize something or minimize
> something else.
>
>
>
>
>
> In a deeper sense (so to say).........even this distinction of what is
> meditativeness and what is not.........really has no basis.
>
> Which means, that in all the sense of the attempts to maximize
> something or minimize something else, .....
>
> ....nothing is actually getting maximized or minimized.
>
>
>
>
> Thus spaciousness, meditativeness  .........is the very absence of the
> presence of concepts of "spaciousness", "meditativeness".....
>
> .....AND....
>
> .....the absence of the absence of the **presence of concepts of
> "spaciousness", "meditativeness".
>
>
>
> *
>
>
>
>
> jogeshwarmahanta wrote:
>
>> Dear Sandeep,
>>
>> Can you accomodate the following realities?
>>
>> The opposing forces, eros/life instinct/centripetal forces and
>> thanotos/death instinct/centrifugal forces are operating
>> spontaneously in us. The purpose of meditation is to maximise the
>> former and minimise the later.
>>
>> regards,
>> Jogeshwar
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep
>> <sandeep1960@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > *
>> >
>> > In spontaneity, there is neither the  favourable nor the
>> unfavourable.
>> >
>> > In spontaneity, there is no consciousness about spontaneity.
>> >
>> > **And  there is nothing which is not spontaneous.:-)
>> >
>> >
>> > *
>> >
>> > jogeshwarmahanta wrote:
>> >
>> > > And not on favourable spontaneity?
>> > >
>> > > regards,
>> > > Jogeshwar
>> > >
>

this is so frustrating to me. Im a new mom at 28, i have a 1 year old
and just turned 3 yr old. when i had them a door opend up to me and
now im on my journey. so far its led me here, but i feel like im in a
different world that speaks a foreign language. i know im on the right
path, but the lingo is really hard for me to grasp. im really trying.
the thing on spaciousness, i gather is to clear your mind? is there a
study i can go to? a place? somewhere i can learn as a beginer to
meditation and everything that goes with it? so far i feel like im a
hitchhiker on the right road but not knowing where im going. i just
want to be enlightend to the universe and other extensions that i am
finding are out there besides me.its like i want to yell "Can someone
tell me where i am, And how i got here?" lol seriously im finding this
a beautiful world but im not sure whats next?

this is so frustrating to me. Im a new mom at 28, i have a 1 year old
and just turned 3 yr old. when i had them a door opend up to me and
now im on my journey. so far its led me here, but i feel like im in a
different world that speaks a foreign language. i know im on the right
path, but the lingo is really hard for me to grasp.

im really trying.
the thing on spaciousness, i gather is to clear your mind? is there a
study i can go to? a place? somewhere i can learn as a beginer to
meditation and everything that goes with it?

so far i feel like im a
hitchhiker on the right road but not knowing where im going.

i just
want to be enlightend to the universe and other extensions that i am
finding are out there besides me.its like i want to yell "Can someone
tell me where i am, And how i got here?"

lol seriously im finding this a beautiful world but im not sure whats next?

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Sandeep
<sandeep1960@...> wrote:
>
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
>
>
>
> JESSICA wrote:
>
> > this is so frustrating to me. Im a new mom at 28, i have a 1
year old
> > and just turned 3 yr old. when i had them a door opend up to me
and
> > now im on my journey. so far its led me here, but i feel like im
in a
> > different world that speaks a foreign language. i know im on the
right
> > path, but the lingo is really hard for me to grasp.
>
> *:-)
>
> Forget all that is being bandied about.*
>
> > im really trying.
> > the thing on spaciousness, i gather is to clear your mind? is
there a
> > study i can go to? a place? somewhere i can learn as a beginer to
> > meditation and everything that goes with it?
>
> *Bob's site has all the tools for you.
>
> Playfully wander about and pick up whatever sits well on you.
> *
>
> > so far i feel like im a
> > hitchhiker on the right road but not knowing where im going.
>
>
> *Well, if you don't care where you are, you ain't  never lost.
>
> You can only be lost, if you believe there is home.
>
>
> *
>
>
> > i just
> > want to be enlightend to the universe and other extensions that
i am
> > finding are out there besides me.its like i want to yell "Can
someone
> > tell me where i am, And how i got here?"
>
> *Ascertain what or who is that "i" in both those questions.....
>
> .....and the very questions would have been resolved.
> *
>
> > lol seriously im finding this a beautiful world but im not sure
whats
> > next?
>
> *There ain't any.:-)*
>
is there a camp or somewhere i can go a like to get classes a school
or something, i thought i was smart but i feel dumb here. i dont
know what bandied is i have to look up alot of words. i need
tutoring. but i know the site is wonderfully helpful. im glad to
have found it. i have learned alot thus far. ty

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "JESSICA"
<jlmulli2692@...> wrote:

> >
> is there a camp or somewhere i can go a like to get classes a school
> or something, i thought i was smart but i feel dumb here. i dont
> know what bandied is i have to look up alot of words. i need
> tutoring. but i know the site is wonderfully helpful. im glad to
> have found it. i have learned alot thus far. ty
>

Hi Jessica -

Here's a beginning:

Breathe. Easy and
natural, right?

Now, notice when you
are inhaling and notice
when you are exhaling.

Do this for a few minutes
(maybe after the kids are
settled for the evening).

When thoughts come in (and
they will) let them go, and
simply return to noticing
when you are inhaling and
when you are exhaling.

Allow yourself to relax
with each exhale. Just be
quietly aware of your
immediate surroundings
while you do this.

Congratulations. You are
now a meditator.

Jeff

Jeff Belyea wrote:

>--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "JESSICA"
><jlmulli2692@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>>is there a camp or somewhere i can go a like to get classes a school
>>or something, i thought i was smart but i feel dumb here. i dont
>>know what bandied is i have to look up alot of words. i need
>>tutoring. but i know the site is wonderfully helpful. im glad to
>>have found it. i have learned alot thus far. ty
>>
>>
>>
>
>Hi Jessica -
>
>Here's a beginning:
>
>Breathe. Easy and
>natural, right?
>
>Now, notice when you
>are inhaling and notice
>when you are exhaling.
>
>Do this for a few minutes
>(maybe after the kids are
>settled for the evening).
>
>When thoughts come in (and
>they will) let them go, and
>simply return to noticing
>when you are inhaling and
>when you are exhaling.
>
>Allow yourself to relax
>with each exhale. Just be
>quietly aware of your
>immediate surroundings
>while you do this.
>
>Congratulations. You are
>now a meditator.
>
Excellent starting advice.
As time goes on, you may
want to refine this simple
practice by (for example)
inhaling through the nose
but exhaling through the
mouth, and altering details
of your posture, such as
learning/assuming lotus
position and/or turning the
palms upward in receptivity
-- or not.               :-)

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "JESSICA"
<jlmulli2692@...> wrote:
>
> this is so frustrating to me. Im a new mom at 28, i have a 1 year
old
> and just turned 3 yr old. when i had them a door opend up to me
and
> now im on my journey. so far its led me here, but i feel like im
in a
> different world that speaks a foreign language. i know im on the
right
> path, but the lingo is really hard for me to grasp. im really
trying.
> the thing on spaciousness, i gather is to clear your mind? is
there a
> study i can go to? a place? somewhere i can learn as a beginer to
> meditation and everything that goes with it? so far i feel like im
a
> hitchhiker on the right road but not knowing where im going. i
just
> want to be enlightend to the universe and other extensions that i
am
> finding are out there besides me.its like i want to yell "Can
someone
> tell me where i am, And how i got here?" lol seriously im finding
this
> a beautiful world but im not sure whats next?
>
Jessica - You may find it helpful to read Lawrence Leshan's "How to
Meditate".  It helped me when I felt overwhelmed.  And while doing
whatever your life gives you to do (changing diapers, etc.), remain
always in the here & now, not in the past or the future.  When you
discover that you've momentarily lost the present, return to it
without being annoyed with yourself.  Inhale.  Exhale.  Pay
attention.  There you are.  :)

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "aideenmck"
<aideenmck@...> wrote:
>
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "JESSICA"
> <jlmulli2692@> wrote:
> >
> > this is so frustrating to me. Im a new mom at 28, i have a 1
year
> old
> > and just turned 3 yr old. when i had them a door opend up to me
> and
> > now im on my journey. so far its led me here, but i feel like im
> in a
> > different world that speaks a foreign language. i know im on the
> right
> > path, but the lingo is really hard for me to grasp. im really
> trying.
> > the thing on spaciousness, i gather is to clear your mind? is
> there a
> > study i can go to? a place? somewhere i can learn as a beginer
to
> > meditation and everything that goes with it? so far i feel like
im
> a
> > hitchhiker on the right road but not knowing where im going. i
> just
> > want to be enlightend to the universe and other extensions that
i
> am
> > finding are out there besides me.its like i want to yell "Can
> someone
> > tell me where i am, And how i got here?" lol seriously im
finding
> this
> > a beautiful world but im not sure whats next?
> >
> Jessica - You may find it helpful to read Lawrence Leshan's "How
to
> Meditate".  It helped me when I felt overwhelmed.  And while doing
> whatever your life gives you to do (changing diapers, etc.),
remain
> always in the here & now, not in the past or the future.  When you
> discover that you've momentarily lost the present, return to it
> without being annoyed with yourself.  Inhale.  Exhale.  Pay
> attention.  There you are.  :)
>
Oh & by the way - if you can't find "how to Meditate" at the
library, do what Jeff Belyea suggested - that's Leshan's book in a
nutshell!

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "aideenmck"
<aideenmck@...> wrote:
>
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "aideenmck"
> <aideenmck@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "JESSICA"
> > <jlmulli2692@> wrote:
> > >
> > > this is so frustrating to me. Im a new mom at 28, i have a 1
> year
> > old
> > > and just turned 3 yr old. when i had them a door opend up to
me
> > and
> > > now im on my journey. so far its led me here, but i feel like
im
> > in a
> > > different world that speaks a foreign language. i know im on
the
> > right
> > > path, but the lingo is really hard for me to grasp. im really
> > trying.
> > > the thing on spaciousness, i gather is to clear your mind? is
> > there a
> > > study i can go to? a place? somewhere i can learn as a beginer
> to
> > > meditation and everything that goes with it? so far i feel
like
> im
> > a
> > > hitchhiker on the right road but not knowing where im going. i
> > just
> > > want to be enlightend to the universe and other extensions
that
> i
> > am
> > > finding are out there besides me.its like i want to yell "Can
> > someone
> > > tell me where i am, And how i got here?" lol seriously im
> finding
> > this
> > > a beautiful world but im not sure whats next?
> > >
> > Jessica - You may find it helpful to read Lawrence Leshan's "How
> to
> > Meditate".  It helped me when I felt overwhelmed.  And while
doing
> > whatever your life gives you to do (changing diapers, etc.),
> remain
> > always in the here & now, not in the past or the future.  When
you
> > discover that you've momentarily lost the present, return to it
> > without being annoyed with yourself.  Inhale.  Exhale.  Pay
> > attention.  There you are.  :)
> >
> Oh & by the way - if you can't find "how to Meditate" at the
> library, do what Jeff Belyea suggested - that's Leshan's book in a
> nutshell!
>
Another  "by the way" & then I'll keep quiet - you might want to
borrow Eckhart Tolle's "The Power of Now"

dear friends

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "JESSICA"
<jlmulli2692@...> wrote:

> >
> is there a camp or somewhere i can go a like to get classes a school
> or something, i thought i was smart but i feel dumb here. i dont
> know what bandied is i have to look up alot of words. i need
> tutoring. but i know the site is wonderfully helpful. im glad to
> have found it. i have learned alot thus far. ty
>

Hi Jessica -

Here's a beginning:

Breathe. Easy and
natural, right?

Now, notice when you
are inhaling and notice
when you are exhaling.

Do this for a few minutes
(maybe after the kids are
settled for the evening).

When thoughts come in (and
they will) let them go, and
simply return to noticing
when you are inhaling and
when you are exhaling.

Allow yourself to relax
with each exhale. Just be
quietly aware of your
immediate surroundings
while you do this.

Congratulations. You are
now a meditator.

Jeff

Thank you, Delia, for the heartwarming
compliments, and the great story.

Jeff

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Delia Tofolean
<deliatfn@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jeff,
>
>   I think u are a wonderful teacher. For me u are the genuine
spirit who has inspired my favourite Zen Koan:
>
>   1.   A Cup of Tea
>     Nan-in, a Japanese master during the Meiji era (1868-1912),
received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen.   Nan-
in served tea. He poured his visitor's cup full, and then kept on
pouring.   The professor watched the overflow until he no longer
could restrain himself. "It is overfull. No more will go
in!"   "Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own
opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first
empty your cup?"
>
>   In my poor opinion one has first to choose the right cup and
afterwards he can try to empty it.
>
>   With great respect
>
>   Delia
>
> Jeff Belyea <jeff@...> wrote:
>   --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "JESSICA"
> <jlmulli2692@> wrote:
>
> > >
> > is there a camp or somewhere i can go a like to get classes a
school
> > or something, i thought i was smart but i feel dumb here. i dont
> > know what bandied is i have to look up alot of words. i need
> > tutoring. but i know the site is wonderfully helpful. im glad to
> > have found it. i have learned alot thus far. ty
> >
>
> Hi Jessica -
>
> Here's a beginning:
>
> Breathe. Easy and
> natural, right?
>
> Now, notice when you
> are inhaling and notice
> when you are exhaling.
>
> Do this for a few minutes
> (maybe after the kids are
> settled for the evening).
>
> When thoughts come in (and
> they will) let them go, and
> simply return to noticing
> when you are inhaling and
> when you are exhaling.
>
> Allow yourself to relax
> with each exhale. Just be
> quietly aware of your
> immediate surroundings
> while you do this.
>
> Congratulations. You are
> now a meditator.
>
> Jeff
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
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> ---------------------------------
>  Yahoo! Mail
>  Use Photomail to share photos without annoying attachments.
>

(Inspired by the tea cup story.)

Those who learn meditation as a
relaxation technique and seek
only a means of stress management
will find meditation uniquely
valuable.

For those who come to meditation
in response to a deep intuitive
sense of "something missing"
in their lives, or in some cases
a desperate longing for peace
of mind - those who seek
enlightenment, the ultimate
meditation experience - and
remain unsatisfied, you may
be open to the following:

(Please keep in mind that
this teaching uses a model, a
paradigm, for expressing what
cannot really be put into words.
So, terms like, "guru, astral,
causal, Source, enlightenment"
are mere conveniences for the
sake of communication.)

Why are many not enlightened, after
years and years of seeking, and time
with a guru or many gurus (teachers,
if you prefer)?

First, a little history of how
guru comes to be guru:

When some fully enlightened ones
die to this physical realm, they
become one with the light being who
is a singular being, yet composed of
all enlightened beings, past, present
and future (beyond time), on the astral
plane.

Actually, if they are guru, they
are already infused with the light
while living, as we all are, but
guru is awakened to this truth by
direct experience and is consciously
aware of this infusion.

Other enlightened ones merge
immediately with Source upon physical
death. This same scenario is reflected
on the early plane as a "preview"
for guru - enlightened ones who are
empowered to be darkness (gu)
remover (ru) - teachers.

All enlightened ones living on earth have
"visited" the astral plane and merged
with Source as a "living" experience.
(More accurately, it is a dying
experience - the death of a wrongly
held previous idea of who they were,
and the re-birth of their True identity).

Some enlightened ones speak of
encountering the astral light being.
Others report (or recall) only merging
with Source.

All living enlightened ones, those
who have entered nirvikalpa samadhi (were
consciously filled with The Holy Spirit,
or whatever term fits your tradion),
passed through this astral plane and into the
causal presence of Source, were absorbed
in the Divine Love that is Source, merged
with Source, and then returned to earthly
living, become guru. They are guides
for those who come to them for teaching.
They speak from direct personal experience -
the only way of truly Knowing Source.

Some present themselves openly as guru,
others serve their purpose in more
subtle ways, but they know they must
share the awesome Truth of Enlightenment,
and they do in some way...for the remainder
of their physical lives, in virtually
everything they do. Most use theistic
language, because of the "spiritual"
sense of their experience, and some
do not use theistic language. The
parallels are obvious to enlightened
ones, in any event.

Guru has been "baptized" with fire and
power. They have died to self and now
live only to serve as empowered witnesses
of the Truth of Enlightenment - for those
who are drawn to find a teacher and a
guide to their own awakening, realization
and enlightenment.

If a guru is a bodhisattva (by any name),
they will return "full time" (beyond
time) to the astral plane upon physical
death, and "usher" into the causal plane,
those whose incarnations on earth have
finally brought them to enlightenment...
until all sentient beings are enlightened.
That is the core of their "vow".
Jesus is such a one.

Guru is already consciousnly one
with the astral light being, while
still in the physical body on earth.
Yet, of course, they are seen
in their physical body. For those
who, as Jesus said, have "ears to
hear", they speak of the Truth
that you are reading here.

It may be this "light" that guru
has been infused with that is
the empowering catalyst - known
by some as "transmission", as in when
a seeker, a sincere student, reaches
the point of emptying their mind
of concepts and "empties their cup",
that the Knowing of the Guru may
be transmitted to them - taking
them to the astral plane, and
possibly into the causal plane
of Source and full enlightenment.

There is an intermediary step,
known as the unitive experience
that some experience as a clarity
of the perfect harmony of all that
"Is" that precedes entrance into
the astral plane. Some experience
this as a "whisper" from God, a
knowing of divine presence. Others
experience this as a "naturalness",
an "Of course!" as if the harmony
had been there all the time, and
now they Know it. Many have
experienced this without a guru -
or their guru has been a sunrise,
an "out of the blue" awakening
(of sorts) in a variety of settings.

Some see this unitive experience
as "all there is" and so the debates
about enlightenment, and guru, and
transmission go on. But that's another
chapter. This email is already way
too long.

Gurus' "Knowing" and therefore
their teaching, is that enlightenment
is the destiny of humankind. They do not
know the time or the "schedule" of
the fulfillment of this destiny, and many
gurus, in their bliss and enthusiasm
for this full enlightenment of all
sentient beings, seem to over-promise
that enlightenment is available to
all who seek it. This is seen in the
many seekers who have spent time
with gurus and walked away disappointed,
as well as those who profess desperate
longing, yet after years with a guru
(or a string of gurus) are still not
awakened, realized or enlightened.

Guru "Knows" of the availability,
of the inherent ability, in all
who seek to satisfy their longing,
but the secondary identity (ego)
often interprets the guru's teachings
as some profession of personal power
or pretense, and so does not surrender
their own ego to the teachings -
even though they may say that they do.
They know in their hearts if this
is so, or not. So does guru.

This (ego) is the final stumbling block
to enlightenment. After years and
years of accepting a secondary identity
(this physical body and the linear
thought processes), it is difficult;
in fact impossible for most, to defer
to the possibility that there is
some "Power" or "Knowing" or "Source"
that is great than their seemingly
separate individual self. And so,
they do not take the final leap,
the final surrender, the ultimate
laying down of their lives, in order
to be "born again" to their primary
identity as already merged with Source.

To add some clarity here: the "final
surrender" is a sacrifice of even the
seeking - the longing to Know, to be
enlightened. Everything, every thought,
is laid down in complete and utter
willingness to "die" to Know.

This teaching can be confusing, and is
often taught as, "one should not seek",
or that "the seeking is the problem,
because you are already enlightened".
But without awakening and realization
of the enlightenment, it is not Known
to conscious perception.

Guru can only offer the Truth that
Guru Knows. When the student is ready
the guru will come into their life.
There is a huge distinction between
the student who is ready and the
student who "wishes" they were ready.

Rare few are ready. Many wish they
were ready. Some come to meditation,
as a way to reduce stress or learn
to relax, only to find a deeper longing
within, and they come to the startling
realization that they are on a quest
to know an ineffable something, that
"something missing"...and they become
seekers.

Ready or not?

Sundays with Papajeff

As reported in Medicalnewstoday.com:

Latest Research Shows How Mantrams Can Even
Tackle Post-traumatic Stress
Main Category: Complementary Medicine News
Article Date: 05 Mar 2006 - 13:00pm (UK)

Repeating mantrams can help control the symptoms of
post-traumatic stress disorder, have a calming effect
in traffic and even ease the boredom of exercise,
according to a study in the latest issue of Journal
of Advanced Nursing.

83 per cent of veterans and hospital staff surveyed
after a five-week mantram course told researchers
from the US Department of Veterans Affairs that they
found the technique â€" which involves silently and
continuously repeating calming words or phrases
throughout the day - useful on a number of occasions.

Just under a quarter of these occasions (24 per cent)
related to traffic and work-related stress, 13 per cent
to insomnia and 12 per cent to unwanted thoughts. More
than half (51 per cent) related to emotional situations.

"Repeating the mantram seemed to stop post-traumatic
stress disorder-type dreams that had occurred for 10
to 11 years" said a former veteran and one of the 66
people taking part in the survey.

"I have racing thoughts. I think about a ton of
things " what I'm going to do about this and what
I'm going to do about that " and then I start the
mantram and it helps" added another.

A third found that using a mantram had an unexpectedly
healthy side effect, commenting: "I use it sometimes
when I'm on the treadmill at the gym. When I'm wishing
that the time would go a little faster. And I'll just
start using my mantram and then I forget about it and
it helps me exercise a little longer."

"The people taking part in the study found that silently
repeating a specific word or phrase helped them to handle
a number of difficult situations" explains lead researcher
Jill E Bormann, Research Nurse Scientist at the
Veterans Affairs San Diego Healthcare System in California.

Dr Bormann and her fellow researchers " from the
Universities of California and North Carolina  deliberately
chose two highly stressed groups to take part in the study.

"Veterans are well known to have many chronic physical
and mental health symptoms that interfere with their
quality of life and their ability to live normal
everyday lives. Similarly, hospital employees have
high levels of job stress, leading to decreased job
satisfaction and subsequent increases in healthcare
costs" she explains.

People taking part in the five-week course, which
comprised a one-and-a-half hour session a week, were
taught to choose and repeat a cue word or mantram
frequently during the day, using guidelines drawn
from The Mantram Handbook by Eknath Easwaran of the
Blue Mountain Center of Meditation in Tomales, California.

Easwaran describes mantrams as a "spiritual formula
for transformation". Dr Bormann calls them a "jacuzzi
for the mind", adding that "using a word that embodies
spirituality helps to initiate the relaxation response and
centeredness."

"People taking part in our study were encouraged to
use the mantram during ordinary and relaxing times,
so that they associated it with a calming effect when
they needed to use it during times of turmoil" she
explains. "Easwaran advises that people use it when they
need it and use it when they don't!"

Most of the volunteers from southern California who took
part chose words or phrases that reflected their
religious beliefs. People without specific beliefs
chose other soothing phrases.

29 of the 30 veterans were male, with an average age
of 63. Seven had been diagnosed with a psychiatric
disorder and six suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder.

31 of the 36 hospital staff were female with an average
age of 50 and two had a psychiatric diagnosis.

"Mantram repetition may be useful in diverse modern
populations for managing a variety of internal emotional
states that sometimes appear endemic to technological
society, such as anger, frustration and impatience" says
Dr Bormann.

Dr Bormann has just received research funding from the
Department of Veterans Affairs to carry out further
investigation into the benefits of mantram repetition
for veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.

She has also been working on a project to see if mantram
repetition decreases anger and increases spiritual faith
in adults with HIV.

###

Further information and press copies of the full paper are available
from Annette Whibley, Wizard Communications wordwizard@...

Notes to editors

# Mantram repetition for stress management in veterans and employees:
a critical incident study. Bormann et al. VA San Diego Healthcare
System, San Diego, California, USA. Journal of Advanced Nursing.
Volume 53.5. Pages 502-512. (March 2006).

# The Veterans Affairs San Diego Healthcare System provides acute and
primary care to San Diego veterans through its medical center and
community clinics. It is a designated Center of Excellence for Post-
Traumatic Stress Disorder.

# Journal of Advanced Nursing, which is celebrating its 30th
anniversary in 2006, is read by experienced nurses, midwives, health
visitors and advanced nursing students in over 80 countries. It
informs, educates, explores, debates and challenges the foundations
of nursing health care knowledge and practice worldwide. Edited by
Professor Alison Tierney, it is published 24 times a year by
Blackwell Publishing Ltd, part of the international Blackwell
Publishing group. http://www.journalofadvancednursing.com/

Contact: Annette Whibley
wordwizard@...
Blackwell Publishing Ltd.

Jungle search for teenage 'Buddha'
Saturday, March 11, 2006; Posted: 11:31 p.m. EST
KATHMANDU, Nepal (AP) -- Hundreds of people scoured
a jungle in southern Nepal on Sunday for a missing
teenager who many believe is the reincarnation of Buddha.
Ram Bahadur Banjan, 15, disappeared Saturday from a
forest where he had meditated for the last 10 months,
during which his associates said he consumed no food
or water.
Local official Santaraj Subedi said police, followers
and family members were looking for the boy in the
jungles of Bara, about 160 kilometers (100 miles)
south of the capital, Kathmandu. Police official
Gautam Raj Kattel said some people said they saw Banjan
walking southwards before dawn on Saturday. His
clothes were found near where he had been meditating.

Banjan had been sitting cross-legged and motionless
with his eyes closed in a niche among the roots of
a tree in the jungle since May 17, 2005. Thousands
of followers flocked to see him every day. The area
is known to have substantial numbers of communist rebels
who have been fighting government troops for a decade.
But Kattel said he doubted the boy was abducted by
the rebels or by local criminals, adding he believed
Banjan just wandered off.

Many followers believe Banjan is a reincarnation of
Gautama Siddhartha, who was born not far away in
southwestern Nepal around 500 B.C. and later became
revered as the Buddha.

Visitors have only been allowed to view Banjan between
dawn and dusk from a roped-off area about 25 meters
(80 feet) away. His handlers kept him from public
view at night, when they would place a screen in front
of him. Buddhist priests who visited him said the boy
was not the incarnation of Buddha, but believed he
had been meditating for months. Buddhism teaches that
right thinking and self-control can enable people
to achieve nirvana -- a divine state of peace and
release from desire. Buddhism has about 325 million
followers, mostly in Asia.

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Hey everyone. I got this message on one of my other lists I am
subscribed to and thought I'd forward it to all of you because I got
my Herbal Encyclopedia CD in the other day and think it's wonderful!
Anyways, you can get yours at http://www.freecdbooks.com. It's
free but you still have to pay for shipping ($5) but it's way worth
it.

Mary

> Greetings,
>
> My name is Neal. I am writing to let you know about my free Herbal
> Encyclopedia CD-ROM. It contains information about thousands of
> herbs, their uses, home remedies, and more! You can quickly access
> reference material on herbal health and alternative treatments for
> most common ailments. This CD is the most comprehensive source of
> herbal information available, and best of all it's FREE!
>
> For more information, please visit my web site:
>
> http://www.freecdbooks.com
>
> Blessings,
>
> Neal Parr
> http://www.freecdbooks.com

A new member of this group shared that they
wanted to get "serious" about meditation.
In a way this is like feeding a comedian
a straight line, and I'm tempted to come
back with some wise-guy remark like
"Seriously, you can't possibly be serious
about meditation", but I won't....er,
I guess I just did:-) Anyway, an old friend
40+years ago said to me that my "problem" was
that I took serious things that aren't, and
didn't take seriously enough the things that
were. And he was right on. This was back in
hippie days and I was all concerned with sex,
drugs, rock and roll and ending the Vietnam war.
I actually was "spiritually seeking" as well,
but doing it in a way that just came down to
finding new and better ways to get high, and
that's what in part started the assembling of the
meditation techniques that appear on our web
site Meditation Station http://www.meditationsociety.com
But eventually the realization came that evolving in
consciousness was the only real "hope" I (or any
of us) have. Our bodies will surely fade away,
as will our thoughts and emotions. The only
possible thing that may survive is our consciousness.
And that's what meditation deals with. The practicing
of a technique or a few that bring you peace is the
best thing you can do for yourself for now and
if there is a possibility of forever, forever.
Read all you can, be in the company of those who
have an advanced level of spiritual knowledge and
demonstrate it in their actions and reactions, avoid
those who "bring you down", try to be consistent
in your practice, rid yourself of the habit of
habits, don't waste time rehashing the past or
trying to plot the future, witness your life as it
takes place, be selfless in thought and action,
and all the other things that follow the basic
game plan for spiritual growth that the great
Swami Sivananda put so well "Be good. Do good".
And the best specific to meditation advice I
can give you is to actually meditate.
Peace and blessings,
Bob

I found this post on KnifeForums:

Ok did you know that if the 11 dimensions of reality
proposed by string theory are correct....

Every range of choices you have ever made, from turning
left or right in car, to larger and more complex decisions...
it may be true that you make all of those choices but your
sensory reality and perceptive awareness defined within a
given dimension leaves you unable to perceive the "other"
realities that were created by you making the other choices.
You are left, by dimensional design, only being aware of a
single choice, perceiving that single and limited aspect
of awareness as "reality". Because of the dimensional
separation and your inability to perceive beyond those
limits, you find a "reality" only appearing to experience
the repercussions and results of the single choice you made.
Yet some aspect of your larger self is learning from,
suffering from, celebrating, regretting, etc... and
experiencing them all, at once. The other dimensional
realities may even influence future choices, and feelings,
and all the aspects of what you experience within the single
dimension your mind perceives as real, trapped within the
perceptual awareness limited by the structure of the universe.

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@...> wrote:
>
> I found this post on KnifeForums:
>
> Ok did you know that if the 11 dimensions of reality
> proposed by string theory are correct....
>
> Every range of choices you have ever made, from turning
> left or right in car, to larger and more complex decisions...
> it may be true that you make all of those choices but your
> sensory reality and perceptive awareness defined within a
> given dimension leaves you unable to perceive the "other"
> realities that were created by you making the other choices.
> You are left, by dimensional design, only being aware of a
> single choice, perceiving that single and limited aspect
> of awareness as "reality". Because of the dimensional
> separation and your inability to perceive beyond those
> limits, you find a "reality" only appearing to experience
> the repercussions and results of the single choice you made.
> Yet some aspect of your larger self is learning from,
> suffering from, celebrating, regretting, etc... and
> experiencing them all, at once. The other dimensional
> realities may even influence future choices, and feelings,
> and all the aspects of what you experience within the single
> dimension your mind perceives as real, trapped within the
> perceptual awareness limited by the structure of the universe.
>

Hi Bob:

Long time no see.

this message caught my eye because I have a view on this subject.

the idea that choices not made create an alternate reality does not
appeal to me.  The idea of alternate realities does not either.

My view is this, and anyone can feel free to challenge it.

The mental scape and inner thoughts do not constitute reality. In fact
the mental world is exactly why the sages have written about reality,
to get people to stop being caught up in their life as if it were real
rather than a set of beliefs and misconceptions.

for instance:
If I get mad at my neighbor because of a property line dispute and
decide to get my pistol and go settle it texas style by going over and
have a few words that end in a fight, then my mental scape is just that.

that would be my world, full of choices made and not made.

But reality, (Prakriti), would be more like this:
A man (me) grabs a hunk of metal and walks across a portion of land
and fights another man (neighbor).

No reasons or other thoughts in my head exist anywhere else or at any
time other than when I am thinking them.

Love
Bobby G.