--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> XXXX Wrote:
>
> I love the website... lots of great words and techniques ;) much
> respect.
>
> I'm having a kid soon. I am only 19. I was wondering if there was
any
> advice on raising my son right. I want him to realize at a young age
> that we are all 1, and love is the way to go... you know, our common
> belief of the universe.
>
> I don't want to treat him as if I am schooling him on something,
but I
> just want him going in the right track, etc.
>
> Any tips and advice would be greatly welcome.

Dear XXXX -- The concept that we are one is a difficult one for a
child to grasp. Model your beliefs for him -- that is, try in every
situation to follow your highest beliefs. The integrity of your life
will teach him. If you do this, you, yourself, will be constantly
growing and stretching and changing and your child will see your
effort. He will come to understand that changing his understanding
of "God" is okay, that we all learn as we grow and it's unending.

Also, please know that your child comes into this life with his own
path to follow and lessons to learn. It may be that no matter how you
model your beliefs, he will resist learning that we are all one.
Speaking from experience, this can be very hard for a parent to
accept and you might feel you have "failed." When you look at
yourself and realize you lived with integrity, hopefully you will be
content and happy with your own life regardless of what your child
does.

Peace and blessings               Kathleen

Journal Entry - tosime
Date:  December 13
Type: Meditation on inner sounds (with earplugs)
Time: 08:35 a.m.
Duration: 50 minutes (open)
Posture: Seated on chair
Body: Eyes closed,
  - tongue tip to pallet,
  - hands on knees-index finger touching thumb.
Room Condition: Darkened room
  - One candle
  - Incense - one stick
  - Essential Oil - (Dawn+water on burner)
Pre-session: Ring Bell
(Ring out distractions - Ring in peace)
  - Sip of water
  - Ear plugs
  - full body stretch (3 times).
Previous day's influence: Reading my journal post as a receiver
Mind Chatter: Low - Medium.
Waves of bliss: None.
Chant (silent): "...Reaching for the sky just to surrender"
Experience:  Good Session.

Result:

A Leonard Cohen song kept turning in my mind yesterday so I decided to use
it in my meditation.

The Stranger Song
It's true that all the men you knew were dealers
who said they were through with dealing
Every time you gave them shelter
I know that kind of man
It's hard to hold the hand of anyone
who is reaching for the sky just to surrender,
who is reaching for the sky just to surrender.

And then sweeping up the jokers that he left behind
you find he did not leave you very much
not even laughter
Like any dealer he was watching for the card
that is so high and wild
he'll never need to deal another
He was just some Joseph looking for a manger
He was just some Joseph looking for a manger...

"Reaching for the sky just to surrender"

Just after the start I "felt" the scent of the oil burner. This was more a
tingling sensation in my nose than the scent of the oil burner. I opened my
eyes and looked at the oil burner. I then had the insight that understanding
intuition needs a different sensory organ (i.e. eyes) even though the normal
perception is through thought.

It got a little complex, but I felt that intuition is really the part of you
that creates the world we think we are perceiving. What we see as intuition
is really seeing what we have created before it comes to us through our
normal senses. I did not have a full understanding of this. However it
helped me to see problems as internal conflicts rather than external
situations.

After writing this I lost the other insights from this meditation session.

I have constant severe pain.  Is there a meditation specifically for
pain?

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> I have constant severe pain.  Is there a meditation specifically for
> pain?

There are several ways to go with this. A fine meditation technique,
especially for those who believe in a deity, is the Visualization of a
Deity technique, which can be found at:
http://www.meditationsociety.com/week26.html This gives you the
opportunity to surrender and offer your pain to your God, which may be
the sacrifice that most pleases your deity. God doesn't want you to
suffer, and pain can be looked at as a learning experience, and once
you have appreciated it's lesson, it is appropriate to give it up.
God, as the Savior, is glad to take your suffering from you. Another
technique that has helped many can be found at:
http://www.meditationsociety.com/week29.html
It is titled Visualization of Cellular Healing and offers 8 different
techniques. The eighth one is specific for pain.

Many people have found that breathing techniques are very efficient at
releasing endorphins, and producing a soothing relief from pain. One
simple technique titled 1-1-1, is done by inhaling for one unit of
time, holding the breath for one unit of time, and exhaling for one
unit of time. The "unit of time" is whatever is comfortable for you -
one second, 2 seconds...whatever. Another thing to do while doing
1-1-1 is to visualize healing and pain relief filling you with each
inhalation, see the healing reach into every area of discomfort while
holding the breath, and then send the pain out with every exhale.

I also hope you are following your physician's directions and using
the medications s/he has ordered for you, in the exact way they have
been prescribed.

I hope this helps, and wish you well.
Peace and blessings,
Bob Rose, President,
Meditation Society of America

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> I have constant severe pain.  Is there a meditation specifically for
> pain?

G: you might try first relaxing into a natural breath... let it slow
until coming from diaphram...  step back and witness the pain but
don't cling to it...  if you can develop a distance then you can go
into it without resistance and it will become less...

    it might take a bit of work but with patience you can get there..

    shanti om ..g..

Every week we receive dozens of requests to post links to sites
selling things, or to let them advertise on our site, but as you may
have noticed, so far we are ad free. But every now and then we will
pass on information about those things that may help you in your
meditation practice. This might fit that catagory.....Here is a
meditation timer that seems pretty cool.....
http://pranna.com/

Very cool. Thanks, Bob.

"I am a nobody, nobody is perfect, Therefore "I AM PERFECT!"

It's my pleasure posting it.  I would recommend it sans drugs though:)

Kevin

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> This great reference book has been posted in the Files section. I
> remember reading it in the wild and crazy sixties, and finding it to
> be an excellent guide for Inner Travelers. Upon rereading it today,
> it still is! Thanks to Kevin for posting it.

Question received from Email:

Hello,

I'm inducing lactation and letdown fine when being suckled, however,
when I do breast massage and hand expression I can't letdown and get
anything to come out. What technique do you suggest I do to retrain my
subconscious that I need to letdown then also?

Thanks for your help

Question from Email:

Thanks for the great website.  I have a question: in meditation #40,
you mentioned that if a person has their ashes put out to sea they
would be eaten by fish which could then be eaten by a human being, or
that if ashes were put to the land they could nourish a plant which
was ate by another human and so one could then become a part of the
cells etc.  This raises some questions for me:

1.  What happens if, instead of being thrown to the land or sea ones
ashes are placed in the ground in an urn?   It could be thousands and
thousands of years before the urn would disintegrate (we are still
finding pottery from Neanderthal man - 10,000 years ago)
2.  Are the only people who gain 'eternal life' those who are lucky
enough to have their ashes eaten by a fish, or part of something else
exhaled or breathed by a human, and what happens to the souls of
people not lucky enough for this to happen?

Thanks again for the answers, and I look forward to your reply.

Peace.

As I mentioned earlier this week, I want to pass on to you any
information we receive that will help your gaining inner peace, and
sometimes that will include material things. I received a nice
communication today from Lynn Gregorski asking me to check out her
spiritual gift web site. This is her first venture of this type, and I
am really impressed. Lynn practices channeling and healing meditation
at the New Age center in Nyack, NY, and this project is a labor of
love that has come out of her desire to share the beautiful and
serenity filled things she has come across in her spiritual and
physical journeys. The URL is at:  www.rapunzelgifts.com  I hope you
find finding this site beneficial.
Peace and blessings,
Bob

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Question from Email:
>
> Thanks for the great website.  I have a question: in meditation #40,
> you mentioned that if a person has their ashes put out to sea they
> would be eaten by fish which could then be eaten by a human being,
or
> that if ashes were put to the land they could nourish a plant which
> was ate by another human and so one could then become a part of the
> cells etc.  This raises some questions for me:
>
> 1.  What happens if, instead of being thrown to the land or sea ones
> ashes are placed in the ground in an urn?   It could be thousands
and
> thousands of years before the urn would disintegrate (we are still
> finding pottery from Neanderthal man - 10,000 years ago)
> 2.  Are the only people who gain 'eternal life' those who are lucky
> enough to have their ashes eaten by a fish, or part of something
else
> exhaled or breathed by a human, and what happens to the souls of
> people not lucky enough for this to happen?
>
> Thanks again for the answers, and I look forward to your reply.
>
> Peace.


G:   the souls (mind tendancies and subtle body) go onwards to a new
adventure .....  it is simply the discarded form that is being re-
cycled by nature....  so have no fear about a soul not being lucky
enough to be integrated back into the eco-system....

     shanti shanti Maha Shanti Om ...g...

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Question received from Email:
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm inducing lactation and letdown fine when being suckled, however,
> when I do breast massage and hand expression I can't letdown and get
> anything to come out. What technique do you suggest I do to retrain
my
> subconscious that I need to letdown then also?
>
> Thanks for your help

G:  first of all relaxation is required... you might try putting on
     some music when feeding the baby.. and putting on the same music
     when getting ready to hand express it can help get the mind
     geared up to let go...  ever try running water as well?

     hope this helps...

     shanti om ....g.....

I have found that being anywhere near the baby will induce the letdown
reflex -- sometimes, even when you don't want it to -- just being near
the baby, perhaps looking at him/her, smelling the sweetness of the
skin, without actually nursing will work.  Also, to close your eyes
and visualize that you are actually nursing; the sight, sounds,
smells, etc. can be effective.
Best of Luck.
--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Question received from Email:
>
> Hello,
>
> I'm inducing lactation and letdown fine when being suckled, however,
> when I do breast massage and hand expression I can't letdown and get
> anything to come out. What technique do you suggest I do to retrain
my
> subconscious that I need to letdown then also?
>
> Thanks for your help

Hi,
i'm Mirela and i recently joined your group. (i hope
you don't mind!) I have been reading some of your
conversations and i must say that this is the Universe
i want to be part of -- even if it's just my mind who
says that -- i don't know how old these conversations
are, but I have noticed that everyone has (kind of)
the same opinion about THE MIND. who is speaking than,
another mind? What i don't understand is why are the
people looking for answers outside them... I strongly
believe that all the answers are within us and all
that we have to do it's just to be honest with
ourselves and honestly recognise what we are feeling.
I don't believe that we are the Infinite and i don't
believe that we are God... i believe that the control
is in our head, brain... that the mind is the most
powerful "creature" on the Earth.

There's gotta be some divisions of the mind, as the
soul is in the mind too, and it may seem that there's
more than just one (the mind!)

Dear Godfrey, which is the comfort zone? Where do you
start exploring?

hope to hear from you,
Mirela

=====

Mi-este drag, intr-adevar


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, mirela basa
<basamirela@y...> wrote:
> Hi,
> i'm Mirela and i recently joined your group. (i hope
> you don't mind!)
Welcome!
>I have been reading some of your
> conversations and i must say that this is the Universe
> i want to be part of -- even if it's just my mind who
> says that -- i don't know how old these conversations
> are, but I have noticed that everyone has (kind of)
> the same opinion about THE MIND. who is speaking than,
> another mind? What i don't understand is why are the
> people looking for answers outside them... I strongly
> believe that all the answers are within us and all
> that we have to do it's just to be honest with
> ourselves and honestly recognise what we are feeling.
I can't say you have no right to believe this or to disbelieve that,
but I don't trust anything that comes from the chattering mind. It is
capable of taking any point in an argument, pro or con, and endorsing
it fully, and then in a different moment, taking the opposite view and
saying that is correct. The mind is forever chasing after things that
may bring pleasure and avoiding things that may be unpleasant. There
is an inner awareness that is everpresent and can observe the mind
jumping around, the body going through never-ending reactions and the
emotions changing at the drop of a smile or sneer. This awareness is
the inner Witness that has always been present and is still present as
you read these words. This is our connection with our higher intuitive
intelligence, that Knows! Our mind is our master and keeping us in
illusion. Meditation is a vehicle to let us gain a control (Self
control) over the mind and stop its foolish chatter. In the Silence of
a stilled mind, the Source of the/all awareness presents itself.
> I don't believe that we are the Infinite and i don't
> believe that we are God... i believe that the control
> is in our head, brain... that the mind is the most
> powerful "creature" on the Earth.
I agree that the mind is powerful enough to make you think we are
separate from the Infinite/God, but I also know that this is just
deceptive advertising, much like the cigarette ads of the 50's that
said smoking was healthy for you. Both are illusions that cause
suffering.
>
> There's gotta be some divisions of the mind, as the
> soul is in the mind too, and it may seem that there's
> more than just one (the mind!
You could say that an ocean is simply billions of drops of water, and
in one perspective, that is right, but that ain't seeing the forrest
for the trees.
>
> Dear Godfrey, which is the comfort zone?
The comfort zone was, is, and always will be present right in
front/inside of our spiritual noses. As you said
>"I strongly believe that all the answers are within us and all
> that we have to do it's just to be honest with
> ourselves and honestly recognise what we are feeling."
The problem is that the mind can lable, judge, compare, and comment,
but it can't be honest or understand (or as the Rasta's much more
accuratly say, "Overstand"). BTW, you've been listening to your inner
chatterer all your life, right? Well, has it helped you be
comfortable?
>Where do you start exploring?
Some start by asking themselves who is this "I" who needs to explore.
Some try to silently Witness their life as it takes place, others do
Hatha yoga, good deeds, pray, whatever. But,no kidding, your mind is
always kidding, and should never or hardly ever be taken seriously, no
matter which method you use. For Me, and hundreds of millions of
others, meditation is the best way to gain self control, self
knowledge, control over the mind, body, emotions, and so on, to the
point that eventually you need make no effort effortlessly, and live
happily ever after.
> hope to hear from you,
> Mirela
Peace and blessings,
Bob
>
> Mi-este drag, intr-adevar
Eh, what's this about? My poor little mind can't figure it out!

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, mirela basa
<basamirela@y...> wrote:

> Hi,
   Hi and Namaste -

M:> i'm Mirela and i recently joined your group. (i hope
> you don't mind!)

G:  and why would anyone mind?  that is the reason for it's
existance...

M:  I have been reading some of your conversations and i must say
that this is the Universe i want to be part of -- even if it's just
my mind who says that -- i don't know how old these conversations
> are, but I have noticed that everyone has (kind of) the same
opinion about THE MIND.

G: opinions are of a relative nature due to the colorizations of your
experience...  birds of a feather flock together...

M: who is speaking than, another mind? What i don't understand is why
are the people looking for answers outside them... I strongly
> believe that all the answers are within us and all that we have to
do it's just to be honest with ourselves and honestly recognise what
we are feeling.

G:  do you think the answers are found in feeling?  feeling is the
outcome of past experience...  and can you Really be honest with
yourself when you are driven by past conditionings and mindsets which
have come by building one incident upon another?  or is that simply
the ego self having its way and calling it sight and insight?
Feelings as well as mind are transient and changing ....

M: > I don't believe that we are the Infinite and i don't believe
that we are God... i believe that the control is in our head,
brain... that the mind is the most powerful "creature" on the Earth.

G:   is the brain the mind?  or is it simply a computer and
waystation that processes the input of mind into a viable seen
affair?   you may not *believe* that we are Infinite or God but then
again a belief is Not a KNOWN but simply a conjecture and a suspected
thing...   so if you know that the answers are within then i suggest
you go fully Within and not simply go the cursory intellectual
surfing of i *believe* for that and a $1 will get you a cup of coffee
and no more....   it won't give you peace or wisdom...

M: There's gotta be some divisions of the mind, as the soul is in the
mind too, and it may seem that there's more than just one (the mind!)
>
G:  you say it may seem .... so in this statement once again it shows
conjecture...  you do not Know for sure...  so go within and find
out...

M: > Dear Godfrey, which is the comfort zone? Where do you
> start exploring?

G:   ah now THAT is an intellegent question...  start by becoming
aware of how transient and fleeting are the thoughts and feelings...
what substance do they have and how do they move your existance?

M: > hope to hear from you,
> Mirela

G:  hope you understand the wisdom and girth that is being expressed
towards your liberation ...

shanti om ..g...

> =====
>
> Mi-este drag, intr-adevar
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Hello!


> > Hi,
> > i'm Mirela and i recently joined your group. (i
> hope
> > you don't mind!)
> Welcome!
> >I have been reading some of your
> > conversations and i must say that this is the
> Universe
> > i want to be part of -- even if it's just my mind
> who
> > says that -- i don't know how old these
> conversations
> > are, but I have noticed that everyone has (kind
> of)
> > the same opinion about THE MIND. who is speaking
> than,
> > another mind? What i don't understand is why are
> the
> > people looking for answers outside them... I
> strongly
> > believe that all the answers are within us and all
> > that we have to do it's just to be honest with
> > ourselves and honestly recognise what we are
> feeling.
Dear Bob,
You say that you don’t trust anything that comes from
the chattering mind… What do you trust then? The soul?
Where is the soul? Your feelings? Where are your
feelings? I know that there is a certain zone on our
brain that is responsable with the feelings… This is
how we feel the emotions.. if we don’t have a mind
(brain), we don’t have feelings… my english is so poor
and i’m sorry i can’t express better what i mean. So,
we think with the mind, but also feel with the mind.
Yeah, well, the mind can do a lot of tricky things,
but if one is honest with himself, the mind will ask
and do the right things… As long as one knows that his
true nature, his true being is honest, the mind will
be right! The mind doesn’t like the pain, it likes
pleasure! What is wrong with that? Once one has opened
the door for pleasure, the pain is going to come in
too. Now, the thing is: are you prepared to accept
pain along with the pleasure? Are you honest enough to
see the pain as just pain? No, people are used to not
like the pain. I’m not saying one should like the
pain, but to see it just like it is: just a pain that
will go away soon. There is a zone which is not pain,
which is not pleasure. It’s just okayness. This is
what i think the man should be: okay. Not hunting for
pleasure, not running away from pain. Just okay. I’m
not speaking about myself here. I’m not okay eather. I
still don’t like the pain, i still want the pleasure.
But i long for the true being… I’m looking for that
state where i shall not ask for more confort and i
shall not want to achieve anything else besides
knowledge and wisdom…






> I can't say you have no right to believe this or to
> disbelieve that,
> but I don't trust anything that comes from the
> chattering mind. It is
> capable of taking any point in an argument, pro or
> con, and endorsing
> it fully, and then in a different moment, taking the
> opposite view and
> saying that is correct. The mind is forever chasing
> after things that
> may bring pleasure and avoiding things that may be
> unpleasant. There
> is an inner awareness that is everpresent and can
> observe the mind
> jumping around, the body going through never-ending
> reactions and the
> emotions changing at the drop of a smile or sneer.
> This awareness is
> the inner Witness that has always been present and
> is still present as
> you read these words. This is our connection with
> our higher intuitive
> intelligence, that Knows! Our mind is our master and
> keeping us in
> illusion. Meditation is a vehicle to let us gain a
> control (Self
> control) over the mind and stop its foolish chatter.
> In the Silence of
> a stilled mind, the Source of the/all awareness
> presents itself.
M: I have heard and red about meditation a lot, but i
don’t know what it means. I don’t really know what is
that.. How is one meditating? It is a state? How do I
get there?



> > I don't believe that we are the Infinite and i
> don't
> > believe that we are God... i believe that the
> control
> > is in our head, brain... that the mind is the most
> > powerful "creature" on the Earth.
> I agree that the mind is powerful enough to make you
> think we are
> separate from the Infinite/God, but I also know that
> this is just
> deceptive advertising, much like the cigarette ads
> of the 50's that
> said smoking was healthy for you. Both are illusions
> that cause
> suffering.
> >
> > There's gotta be some divisions of the mind, as
> the
> > soul is in the mind too, and it may seem that
> there's
> > more than just one (the mind!
> You could say that an ocean is simply billions of
> drops of water, and
> in one perspective, that is right, but that ain't
> seeing the forrest
> for the trees.
> >
> > Dear Godfrey, which is the comfort zone?
> The comfort zone was, is, and always will be present
> right in
> front/inside of our spiritual noses. As you said
> >"I strongly believe that all the answers are within
> us and all
> > that we have to do it's just to be honest with
> > ourselves and honestly recognise what we are
> feeling."

M: Are you there, Bob? In the confort zone? Does
everyone know about this zone? If so, than it
shouldn’t be so much suffering around… It should be a
lot more Joy.

> The problem is that the mind can lable, judge,
> compare, and comment,
> but it can't be honest or understand (or as the
> Rasta's much more
> accuratly say, "Overstand"). BTW, you've been
> listening to your inner
> chatterer all your life, right? Well, has it helped
> you be
> comfortable?
M: I have been listening to my mind, but also to my
consciousness… And i tried as much as i could to not
hurt the people around me, and to do the right thing.

> >Where do you start exploring?
> Some start by asking themselves who is this "I" who
> needs to explore.
> Some try to silently Witness their life as it takes
> place, others do
> Hatha yoga, good deeds, pray, whatever. But,no
> kidding, your mind is
> always kidding, and should never or hardly ever be
> taken seriously, no
> matter which method you use. For Me, and hundreds of
> millions of
> others, meditation is the best way to gain self
> control, self
> knowledge, control over the mind, body, emotions,
> and so on, to the
> point that eventually you need make no effort
> effortlessly, and live
> happily ever after.
M: Who am „I”? i think i am my past.. i don’t think i
have another answer to this question. For anyone
around me i am some memories and a little drop of
present. And maybe some hopes for the future… J


> Peace and blessings,
> Bob
> >
> > Mi-este drag, intr-adevar acela care aduce pe
vagabond in caminul sau.
> Eh, what's this about? My poor little mind can't
> figure it out!
M: This is a signature that i used to use, and i
forgot to take it out. It was romanian translation of
a quote from Krishnamurti, but i can’t fiind it in
English right now; i’ll send it to you as soon as i
fiind it.
>
> Thank you,
Mirela
------------------------------------------------------



Dear G,

Hi,
>   Hi and Namaste -
>
> M:> i'm Mirela and i recently joined your group. (i
> hope
> > you don't mind!)
>
> G:  and why would anyone mind?  that is the reason
> for it's
> existance...
> M: Well, sometimes, people do mind when new
unexperienced people come. Especially when the new
ones don’t really know what is all about.


> M:  I have been reading some of your conversations
> and i must say
> that this is the Universe i want to be part of --
> even if it's just
> my mind who says that -- i don't know how old these
> conversations
> > are, but I have noticed that everyone has (kind
> of) the same
> opinion about THE MIND.
>
> G: opinions are of a relative nature due to the
> colorizations of your
> experience...  birds of a feather flock together...
M: the Truth must be found out, right? A lot of people
with a lot of opinions.. who is right? When do you
decide that „this is true?”


>
> M: who is speaking than, another mind? What i don't
> understand is why
> are the people looking for answers outside them... I
> strongly
> > believe that all the answers are within us and all
> that we have to
> do it's just to be honest with ourselves and
> honestly recognise what
> we are feeling.
>
> G:  do you think the answers are found in feeling?
> feeling is the
> outcome of past experience...  and can you Really be
> honest with
> yourself when you are driven by past conditionings
> and mindsets which
> have come by building one incident upon another?  or
> is that simply
> the ego self having its way and calling it sight and
> insight?
> Feelings as well as mind are transient and changing
> ....
M: If both the feelings and the mind are transient and
changing, what is still? I don’t know where the
answers are; i would be there if i knew… And i also
don’t know what do i trust more: thoughts or feelings…
But, when i feel something that i know (i judge) is
true, i listen to it. Yeah, this is what we are:
experience, past… The diference is that if i’ll look
NOW to myself, i don’t see what i am, but i see what i
was… i see the changing that has taken place… my
thoughts, my feelings, my ideas, my everything is
diferent than yesterday, a month ago or a year ago… It
is like one thousands and one veils have been taken
away from my eyes… i sometimes say „How could i be so
stupid?”. I was or not stupid, but i know that i
couldn’t see the things how i see it now (not
necessarly better!)… Sometimes i wish i didn’t have a
mind, but sometimes i’m so happy that i have it…



> M: > I don't believe that we are the Infinite and i
> don't believe
> that we are God... i believe that the control is in
> our head,
> brain... that the mind is the most powerful
> "creature" on the Earth.
>
> G:   is the brain the mind?  or is it simply a
> computer and
> waystation that processes the input of mind into a
> viable seen
> affair?   you may not *believe* that we are Infinite
> or God but then
> again a belief is Not a KNOWN but simply a
> conjecture and a suspected
> thing...   so if you know that the answers are
> within then i suggest
> you go fully Within and not simply go the cursory
> intellectual
> surfing of i *believe* for that and a $1 will get
> you a cup of coffee
> and no more....   it won't give you peace or
> wisdom...
M:Brain, mind, feelings, physical feeling etc are all
interrelated.. they can’t exist without the other!
What is it true for you, G? Is it what you think? Is
it what you see? Is it what you feel? Where do you
turn when you need help? When you need to check if
something is true or not (thoughts, feelings,
whatever..), where do you go? Who do you ask?
Yourself? Your mind? Your heart?
(I’m not very good with english and i don’t really
know what this means : „a $1 will get you a cup of
coffee and no more....” can you please explain?)



>
> M: There's gotta be some divisions of the mind, as
> the soul is in the
> mind too, and it may seem that there's more than
> just one (the mind!)
> >
> G:  you say it may seem .... so in this statement
> once again it shows
> conjecture...  you do not Know for sure...  so go
> within and find
> out...
M: I meant that there is a superficial mind, too. How
do you explain that sometimes you make a decision and
in a few minutes you say it was bad, that you need to
think more about it… when you know something for the
first time, there is a „something” that judges it
right the way. Something that tells you it is either
good or bad, and than you further proceed…


> M: > Dear Godfrey, which is the comfort zone? Where
> do you
> > start exploring?
>
> G:   ah now THAT is an intellegent question...
> start by becoming
> aware of how transient and fleeting are the thoughts
> and feelings...
> what substance do they have and how do they move
> your existance?
M: what i know for sure is that no matter what i do i
try to not hurt anyone. Before any action i look very
well at what i shall do and to the possible
consequences. If there is anything that tells me is
not right, i won’t do it. So, when i come in touch
with something or someone, it’s me who decides if it’s
good or bad.. and if you’ll ask me „who is this I who
does everything” i will tell you that „I” am the whole
world since i was born changing and growing, growing
up and growing old, past, present and becoming, and
„i” will stop being when death will take me away.

>
> M: > hope to hear from you,
> > Mirela
>
> G:  hope you understand the wisdom and girth that is
> being expressed
> towards your liberation ...
>
> shanti om ..g...
>
M: Thank you, G for your thoughts
Wish you well,
Mirela













--- meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>
meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are 2 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. (unknown)
>            From: medit8ionsociety
>       2. answer to mirela
>            From: "G <crystalkundalini@...>"
> <crystalkundalini@...>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 22:19:02 -0000
>    From: medit8ionsociety
> Subject: (unknown)
>
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> mirela basa
> <basamirela@y...> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > i'm Mirela and i recently joined your group. (i
> hope
> > you don't mind!)
> Welcome!
> >I have been reading some of your
> > conversations and i must say that this is the
> Universe
> > i want to be part of -- even if it's just my mind
> who
> > says that -- i don't know how old these
> conversations
> > are, but I have noticed that everyone has (kind
> of)
> > the same opinion about THE MIND. who is speaking
> than,
> > another mind? What i don't understand is why are
> the
> > people looking for answers outside them... I
> strongly
> > believe that all the answers are within us and all
> > that we have to do it's just to be honest with
> > ourselves and honestly recognise what we are
> feeling.
> I can't say you have no right to believe this or to
> disbelieve that,
> but I don't trust anything that comes from the
> chattering mind. It is
> capable of taking any point in an argument, pro or
> con, and endorsing
> it fully, and then in a different moment, taking the
> opposite view and
> saying that is correct. The mind is forever chasing
> after things that
> may bring pleasure and avoiding things that may be
> unpleasant. There
> is an inner awareness that is everpresent and can
> observe the mind
> jumping around, the body going through never-ending
> reactions and the
> emotions changing at the drop of a smile or sneer.
> This awareness is
> the inner Witness that has always been present and
> is still present as
> you read these words. This is our connection with
> our higher intuitive
> intelligence, that Knows! Our mind is our master and
> keeping us in
> illusion. Meditation is a vehicle to let us gain a
> control (Self
> control) over the mind and stop its foolish chatter.
> In the Silence of
> a stilled mind, the Source of the/all awareness
> presents itself.
> > I don't believe that we are the Infinite and i
> don't
> > believe that we are God... i believe that the
> control
> > is in our head, brain... that the mind is the most
> > powerful "creature" on the Earth.
> I agree that the mind is powerful enough to make you
> think we are
> separate from the Infinite/God, but I also know that
> this is just
> deceptive advertising, much like the cigarette ads
> of the 50's that
> said smoking was healthy for you. Both are illusions
> that cause
> suffering.
> >
> > There's gotta be some divisions of the mind, as
> the
> > soul is in the mind too, and it may seem that
> there's
> > more than just one (the mind!
> You could say that an ocean is simply billions of
> drops of water, and
> in one perspective, that is right, but that ain't
> seeing the forrest
> for the trees.
> >
> > Dear Godfrey, which is the comfort zone?
> The comfort zone was, is, and always will be present
> right in
> front/inside of our spiritual noses. As you said
> >"I strongly believe that all the answers are within
> us and all
> > that we have to do it's just to be honest with
> > ourselves and honestly recognise what we are
> feeling."
> The problem is that the mind can lable, judge,
> compare, and comment,
> but it can't be honest or understand (or as the
> Rasta's much more
> accuratly say, "Overstand"). BTW, you've been
> listening to your inner
> chatterer all your life, right? Well, has it helped
> you be
> comfortable?
> >Where do you start exploring?
> Some start by asking themselves who is this "I" who
> needs to explore.
> Some try to silently Witness their life as it takes
> place, others do
> Hatha yoga, good deeds, pray, whatever. But,no
> kidding, your mind is
> always kidding, and should never or hardly ever be
> taken seriously, no
> matter which method you use. For Me, and hundreds of
> millions of
> others, meditation is the best way to gain self
> control, self
> knowledge, control over the mind, body, emotions,
> and so on, to the
> point that eventually you need make no effort
> effortlessly, and live
> happily ever after.
> > hope to hear from you,
> > Mirela
> Peace and blessings,
> Bob
> >
> > Mi-este drag, intr-adevar
> Eh, what's this about? My poor little mind can't
> figure it out!
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 04:29:49 -0000
>    From: "G <crystalkundalini@...>"
> <crystalkundalini@...>
> Subject: answer to mirela
>
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> mirela basa
> <basamirela@y...> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
>   Hi and Namaste -
>
> M:> i'm Mirela and i recently joined your group. (i
> hope
> > you don't mind!)
>
> G:  and why would anyone mind?  that is the reason
> for it's
> existance...
>
> M:  I have been reading some of your conversations
> and i must say
> that this is the Universe i want to be part of --
> even if it's just
> my mind who says that -- i don't know how old these
> conversations
> > are, but I have noticed that everyone has (kind
> of) the same
> opinion about THE MIND.
>
> G: opinions are of a relative nature due to the
> colorizations of your
> experience...  birds of a feather flock together...
>
> M: who is speaking than, another mind? What i don't
> understand is why
> are the people looking for answers outside them... I
> strongly
> > believe that all the answers are within us and all
> that we have to
> do it's just to be honest with ourselves and
> honestly recognise what
> we are feeling.
>
> G:  do you think the answers are found in feeling?
> feeling is the
> outcome of past experience...  and can you Really be
> honest with
> yourself when you are driven by past conditionings
> and mindsets which
> have come by building one incident upon another?  or
> is that simply
> the ego self having its way and calling it sight and
> insight?
> Feelings as well as mind are transient and changing
> ....
>
> M: > I don't believe that we are the Infinite and i
> don't believe
> that we are God... i believe that the control is in
> our head,
> brain... that the mind is the most powerful
> "creature" on the Earth.
>
> G:   is the brain the mind?  or is it simply a
> computer and
> waystation that processes the input of mind into a
> viable seen
> affair?   you may not *believe* that we are Infinite
> or God but then
> again a belief is Not a KNOWN but simply a
> conjecture and a suspected
> thing...   so if you know that the answers are
> within then i suggest
> you go fully Within and not simply go the cursory
> intellectual
> surfing of i *believe* for that and a $1 will get
> you a cup of coffee
> and no more....   it won't give you peace or
> wisdom...
>
> M: There's gotta be some divisions of the mind, as
> the soul is in the
> mind too, and it may seem that there's more than
> just one (the mind!)
> >
> G:  you say it may seem .... so in this statement
> once again it shows
> conjecture...  you do not Know for sure...  so go
> within and find
> out...
>
> M: > Dear Godfrey, which is the comfort zone? Where
> do you
> > start exploring?
>
> G:   ah now THAT is an intellegent question...
> start by becoming
> aware of how transient and fleeting are the thoughts
> and feelings...
> what substance do they have and how do they move
> your existance?
>
> M: > hope to hear from you,
> > Mirela
>
> G:  hope you understand the wisdom and girth that is
> being expressed
> towards your liberation ...
>
> shanti om ..g...
>
> > =====
> >
> > Mi-este drag, intr-adevar
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
> now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


=====

Mi-este drag, intr-adevar


__________________________________________________
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God rest ye merry gentlemen,
Let nothing ye dismay,
Remember Christ our Savior
Was born on Christmas day,
To save us all from Satan's pow'r
When we were gone astray;
From God our heavenly Father
A blessed angel came.
And unto certain shepherds
Brought tidings of the same,


"Fear not," then said the angel,
"Let nothing ye affright,


Now to the Lord sing praises,
All ye within this place,
And with true love and brotherhood
Each other now embrace;
This holy tide of Christmas
All others doth deface:

O tidings of comfort and joy,
Comfort and joy,
O tidings of comfort and joy.

Happy Days,

Judi



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part
limited in time and space.  He experiences himself, his thoughts and
feelings as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical
delusion of his consciousness.  This delusion is a kind of prison for
us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few
persons nearest to us.  Our task must be to free ourselves from this
prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living
creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.

Albert Einstein
~~~~~~~~~~~
Amen, Albert, amen.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wishing all well during this holiday season.

love - michael


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nasrudin's mother died at the ripe age of ninety. When people enquired
what was the cause of her death, he replied simply: "birth".

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, mirela basa
<basamirela@y...> wrote:
> Dear G,
>
> Hi,
> >   Hi and Namaste -
> >
> > M:> i'm Mirela and i recently joined your group. (i
> > hope you don't mind!)
> >
> > G:  and why would anyone mind?  that is the reason
> > for it's existance...
> > M: Well, sometimes, people do mind when new
> unexperienced people come. Especially when the new
> ones don't really know what is all about.

G:  everyone learns in their time...  there is nothing to mind
everyone here is here to learn to seek for answers.... or to share
the answers that have already been found....


> > M:  I have been reading some of your conversations
> > and i must say that this is the Universe i want to be part of --
> > even if it's just my mind who says that -- i don't know how old
these conversations are, but I have noticed that everyone has (kind
> > of) the same opinion about THE MIND.

> > G: opinions are of a relative nature due to the
> > colorizations of your experience...  birds of a feather flock
together...

> M: the Truth must be found out, right? A lot of people
> with a lot of opinions.. who is right? When do you
> decide that „this is true?"

G:  when you have experienced it for yourself..  when it is something
that is Beyond anything that may be denied... Source or THAT which is
Eternal Truth cannot be denied once entered into and KNOWN
DIRECTLY....   it is beyond words and transient experiences that come
and go....


> > M: who is speaking than, another mind? What i don't
> > understand is why are the people looking for answers outside
them... I strongly believe that all the answers are within us and all
> > that we have to do it's just to be honest with ourselves and
> > honestly recognise what we are feeling.
> >
> > G:  do you think the answers are found in feeling?
> > feeling is the outcome of past experience...  and can you Really
be honest with yourself when you are driven by past conditionings
> > and mindsets which have come by building one incident upon
another?  or is that simply the ego self having its way and calling
it sight and insight?
> > Feelings as well as mind are transient and changing ....

> M: If both the feelings and the mind are transient and
> changing, what is still? I don't know where the
> answers are; i would be there if i knew… And i also
> don't know what do i trust more: thoughts or feelings…
> But, when i feel something that i know (i judge) is
> true, i listen to it. Yeah, this is what we are:
> experience, past… The diference is that if i'll look
> NOW to myself, i don't see what i am, but i see what i
> was… i see the changing that has taken place… my
> thoughts, my feelings, my ideas, my everything is
> diferent than yesterday, a month ago or a year ago… It
> is like one thousands and one veils have been taken
> away from my eyes… i sometimes say „How could i be so
> stupid?". I was or not stupid, but i know that i
> couldn't see the things how i see it now (not
> necessarly better!)… Sometimes i wish i didn't have a
> mind, but sometimes i'm so happy that i have it…
>

G: you are right in that you see that all you see is relative
happenings...  what needs to be found is that which is Unchanging ..
you only find the Source when the limitational *I* is seen for what
it truly is and is not...  you may find out what you seek by the path
of Self Enquiry....

> >
> > M: > I don't believe that we are the Infinite and i
> > don't believe that we are God... i believe that the control is in
> > our head, brain... that the mind is the most powerful
> > "creature" on the Earth.
> >
> > G:   is the brain the mind?  or is it simply a
> > computer and waystation that processes the input of mind into a
> > viable seen affair?   you may not *believe* that we are Infinite
> > or God but then again a belief is Not a KNOWN but simply a
> > conjecture and a suspected thing...   so if you know that the
answers are within then i suggest you go fully Within and not simply
go the cursory intellectual surfing of i *believe* for that and a $1
will get you a cup of coffee and no more....   it won't give you
peace or wisdom...

> M:Brain, mind, feelings, physical feeling etc are all
> interrelated.. they can't exist without the other!
> What is it true for you, G? Is it what you think? Is
> it what you see? Is it what you feel? Where do you
> turn when you need help? When you need to check if
> something is true or not (thoughts, feelings,
> whatever..), where do you go? Who do you ask?
> Yourself? Your mind? Your heart?

G: i may only say that it is beyond thought... it is beyond physical
sight but it may be cognised Directly...  it is beyond feelings and
emotions...  Where you turn is within until no within or without
remains...  Where do you go is within the Heart and to the root of
what is this *I* that sees and hears and sees relative truths which
are always in flux and change... Who do you ask?  those that have
already made the journey and can give you guidance as to where to
seek....  You alone can make the Journey to Source...  the Guide may
give the directions to go but you alone can walk the path within....
and you alone must be willing to pay the toll of the cost of your ego
self identity to enter in....


M> (I'm not very good with english and i don't really
> know what this means : „a $1 will get you a cup of
> coffee and no more...." can you please explain?)

G:  hahahahaha yes sorry for the confusion... it means that simply
intellectual knowledge is useless in this realm... you must have
Direct Experience which put to flight all concepts and ideas ...
Direct expereince of Truth shatters all the conceived notions at
once....


> > M: There's gotta be some divisions of the mind, as
> > the soul is in the mind too, and it may seem that there's more
than just one (the mind!)
> > >
> > G:  you say it may seem .... so in this statement
> > once again it shows conjecture...  you do not Know for sure...
so go within and find out...

> M: I meant that there is a superficial mind, too. How
> do you explain that sometimes you make a decision and
> in a few minutes you say it was bad, that you need to
> think more about it… when you know something for the
> first time, there is a „something" that judges it
> right the way. Something that tells you it is either
> good or bad, and than you further proceed…

G: this is where it takes coming to the point of enough stillness to
be able to witness and see what patterns are coming up and then being
able to question them effectively...  what you are using is past
conditioning and expereince which simply gives rise to changing
flucuations of thought as right and wrong - good or bad....  You must
find out what is Beyond these fluctuations.....


> > M: > Dear Godfrey, which is the comfort zone? Where
> > do you start exploring?
> >
> > G:   ah now THAT is an intellegent question...
> > start by becoming aware of how transient and fleeting are the
thoughts and feelings...
> > what substance do they have and how do they move
> > your existance?

> M: what i know for sure is that no matter what i do i
> try to not hurt anyone. Before any action i look very
> well at what i shall do and to the possible
> consequences. If there is anything that tells me is
> not right, i won't do it. So, when i come in touch
> with something or someone, it's me who decides if it's
> good or bad.. and if you'll ask me „who is this I who
> does everything" i will tell you that „I" am the whole
> world since i was born changing and growing, growing
> up and growing old, past, present and becoming, and
> „i" will stop being when death will take me away.

G:  this is once again attempting to use relative knowledge... and
you do not know that you will stop being when death takes you
away...  you think that is the case because you have seen physical
forms come and go... but i say go deeper... question deeper...
question what you are?  why does the world revolve around *your*
perceptions?   if you want more information or to know more about the
path of Jnana or knowledge you may email me directly at:
crystalkundalini@...

> >
> > M: > hope to hear from you,
> > > Mirela
> >
> > G:  hope you understand the wisdom and girth that is
> > being expressed
> > towards your liberation ...
> >
> > shanti om ..g...
> >
> M: Thank you, G for your thoughts
> Wish you well,
> Mirela


G: hahahahaha i am always well...  thankyou

shanti om ....g.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >
> meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> >
> > There are 2 messages in this issue.
> >
> > Topics in this digest:
> >
> >       1. (unknown)
> >            From: medit8ionsociety
> >       2. answer to mirela
> >            From: "G <crystalkundalini@h...>"
> > <crystalkundalini@h...>
> >
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
> > Message: 1
> >    Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 22:19:02 -0000
> >    From: medit8ionsociety
> > Subject: (unknown)
> >
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> > mirela basa
> > <basamirela@y...> wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > i'm Mirela and i recently joined your group. (i
> > hope
> > > you don't mind!)
> > Welcome!
> > >I have been reading some of your
> > > conversations and i must say that this is the
> > Universe
> > > i want to be part of -- even if it's just my mind
> > who
> > > says that -- i don't know how old these
> > conversations
> > > are, but I have noticed that everyone has (kind
> > of)
> > > the same opinion about THE MIND. who is speaking
> > than,
> > > another mind? What i don't understand is why are
> > the
> > > people looking for answers outside them... I
> > strongly
> > > believe that all the answers are within us and all
> > > that we have to do it's just to be honest with
> > > ourselves and honestly recognise what we are
> > feeling.
> > I can't say you have no right to believe this or to
> > disbelieve that,
> > but I don't trust anything that comes from the
> > chattering mind. It is
> > capable of taking any point in an argument, pro or
> > con, and endorsing
> > it fully, and then in a different moment, taking the
> > opposite view and
> > saying that is correct. The mind is forever chasing
> > after things that
> > may bring pleasure and avoiding things that may be
> > unpleasant. There
> > is an inner awareness that is everpresent and can
> > observe the mind
> > jumping around, the body going through never-ending
> > reactions and the
> > emotions changing at the drop of a smile or sneer.
> > This awareness is
> > the inner Witness that has always been present and
> > is still present as
> > you read these words. This is our connection with
> > our higher intuitive
> > intelligence, that Knows! Our mind is our master and
> > keeping us in
> > illusion. Meditation is a vehicle to let us gain a
> > control (Self
> > control) over the mind and stop its foolish chatter.
> > In the Silence of
> > a stilled mind, the Source of the/all awareness
> > presents itself.
> > > I don't believe that we are the Infinite and i
> > don't
> > > believe that we are God... i believe that the
> > control
> > > is in our head, brain... that the mind is the most
> > > powerful "creature" on the Earth.
> > I agree that the mind is powerful enough to make you
> > think we are
> > separate from the Infinite/God, but I also know that
> > this is just
> > deceptive advertising, much like the cigarette ads
> > of the 50's that
> > said smoking was healthy for you. Both are illusions
> > that cause
> > suffering.
> > >
> > > There's gotta be some divisions of the mind, as
> > the
> > > soul is in the mind too, and it may seem that
> > there's
> > > more than just one (the mind!
> > You could say that an ocean is simply billions of
> > drops of water, and
> > in one perspective, that is right, but that ain't
> > seeing the forrest
> > for the trees.
> > >
> > > Dear Godfrey, which is the comfort zone?
> > The comfort zone was, is, and always will be present
> > right in
> > front/inside of our spiritual noses. As you said
> > >"I strongly believe that all the answers are within
> > us and all
> > > that we have to do it's just to be honest with
> > > ourselves and honestly recognise what we are
> > feeling."
> > The problem is that the mind can lable, judge,
> > compare, and comment,
> > but it can't be honest or understand (or as the
> > Rasta's much more
> > accuratly say, "Overstand"). BTW, you've been
> > listening to your inner
> > chatterer all your life, right? Well, has it helped
> > you be
> > comfortable?
> > >Where do you start exploring?
> > Some start by asking themselves who is this "I" who
> > needs to explore.
> > Some try to silently Witness their life as it takes
> > place, others do
> > Hatha yoga, good deeds, pray, whatever. But,no
> > kidding, your mind is
> > always kidding, and should never or hardly ever be
> > taken seriously, no
> > matter which method you use. For Me, and hundreds of
> > millions of
> > others, meditation is the best way to gain self
> > control, self
> > knowledge, control over the mind, body, emotions,
> > and so on, to the
> > point that eventually you need make no effort
> > effortlessly, and live
> > happily ever after.
> > > hope to hear from you,
> > > Mirela
> > Peace and blessings,
> > Bob
> > >
> > > Mi-este drag, intr-adevar
> > Eh, what's this about? My poor little mind can't
> > figure it out!
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
> > Message: 2
> >    Date: Mon, 23 Dec 2002 04:29:49 -0000
> >    From: "G <crystalkundalini@h...>"
> > <crystalkundalini@h...>
> > Subject: answer to mirela
> >
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
> > mirela basa
> > <basamirela@y...> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi,
> >   Hi and Namaste -
> >
> > M:> i'm Mirela and i recently joined your group. (i
> > hope
> > > you don't mind!)
> >
> > G:  and why would anyone mind?  that is the reason
> > for it's
> > existance...
> >
> > M:  I have been reading some of your conversations
> > and i must say
> > that this is the Universe i want to be part of --
> > even if it's just
> > my mind who says that -- i don't know how old these
> > conversations
> > > are, but I have noticed that everyone has (kind
> > of) the same
> > opinion about THE MIND.
> >
> > G: opinions are of a relative nature due to the
> > colorizations of your
> > experience...  birds of a feather flock together...
> >
> > M: who is speaking than, another mind? What i don't
> > understand is why
> > are the people looking for answers outside them... I
> > strongly
> > > believe that all the answers are within us and all
> > that we have to
> > do it's just to be honest with ourselves and
> > honestly recognise what
> > we are feeling.
> >
> > G:  do you think the answers are found in feeling?
> > feeling is the
> > outcome of past experience...  and can you Really be
> > honest with
> > yourself when you are driven by past conditionings
> > and mindsets which
> > have come by building one incident upon another?  or
> > is that simply
> > the ego self having its way and calling it sight and
> > insight?
> > Feelings as well as mind are transient and changing
> > ....
> >
> > M: > I don't believe that we are the Infinite and i
> > don't believe
> > that we are God... i believe that the control is in
> > our head,
> > brain... that the mind is the most powerful
> > "creature" on the Earth.
> >
> > G:   is the brain the mind?  or is it simply a
> > computer and
> > waystation that processes the input of mind into a
> > viable seen
> > affair?   you may not *believe* that we are Infinite
> > or God but then
> > again a belief is Not a KNOWN but simply a
> > conjecture and a suspected
> > thing...   so if you know that the answers are
> > within then i suggest
> > you go fully Within and not simply go the cursory
> > intellectual
> > surfing of i *believe* for that and a $1 will get
> > you a cup of coffee
> > and no more....   it won't give you peace or
> > wisdom...
> >
> > M: There's gotta be some divisions of the mind, as
> > the soul is in the
> > mind too, and it may seem that there's more than
> > just one (the mind!)
> > >
> > G:  you say it may seem .... so in this statement
> > once again it shows
> > conjecture...  you do not Know for sure...  so go
> > within and find
> > out...
> >
> > M: > Dear Godfrey, which is the comfort zone? Where
> > do you
> > > start exploring?
> >
> > G:   ah now THAT is an intellegent question...
> > start by becoming
> > aware of how transient and fleeting are the thoughts
> > and feelings...
> > what substance do they have and how do they move
> > your existance?
> >
> > M: > hope to hear from you,
> > > Mirela
> >
> > G:  hope you understand the wisdom and girth that is
> > being expressed
> > towards your liberation ...
> >
> > shanti om ..g...
> >
> > > =====
> > >
> > > Mi-este drag, intr-adevar
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
> > now.
> > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
>
> Mi-este drag, intr-adevar
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com

XXX wrote:
  Hello, does the regular chanting of OM take away the need to chant
any more mantras? There are so many hundereds out there but I would
like to chant an all inclusive one. Thank you.
  Answer:
I think that the technique found in the Archive section of our web
site, Meditation #44 OM, explains this nicely. Here it is:

Every vibration has a corresponding sound and everything in the
universe has a vibration and thus a sound. Each atom, molecule, cell,
object, group of objects, even the entire universe, has its own
collection of vibrations and unique sound.

When you chant a mantra, you merge with the sound vibration and become
at one with the energy wavelength of the object of your mantra. Mantra
chanting makes you at one with everyone, everywhere who is chanting
that mantra and with everyone who has ever chanted the mantra. All the
saints who have ever reached enlightenment through the technique of
chanting that mantra connect with you as you connect with the
vibration of the mantra. You merge with their essence which has been
purified and is holy and you become pure and holy because that divine
level of existence vibrates only with holiness, peace, and bliss.

By chanting a mantra, your cells, molecules, atoms, and sub-atomic
particles all vibrate in the same wavelength as the mantra. Once
attuned with this vibration you connect with everything resonating on
that plane of existence. It's like tuning a radio. At first you
may
get static, but once you are in the right frequency your reception is
perfect. Om is the universal sound. It is within every word and within
everything. So when you chant Om, you merge with all energy and all
forms, from the sub-atomic to the universal, from the most gross to
the most divine. And when you are tuned in perfectly, you will receive
holy frequencies clearly and merge and emerge at one with the source
of all and live happily ever after.

Many meditation teachers suggest that it is necessary to understand
every intellectual aspect of the meaning of the mantra that is being
practiced, but just as many others feel that the intellect may tend to
confuse and hold back spiritual progress. What both types of teachers
agree on is that mantras have the potential to take practitioners to
the level of consciousness that transcends the limitations of the mind
by a billion-fold. There is an ancient tale that very well shows that
true devotion and complete absorption are the key:

Once upon a time in a land far away lived a poor uneducated, mentally
challenged man who tended a herd of cows for his master. He happened
upon a meditation teacher and was very taken with his calm, loving,
gentle and happy nature. He decided he wanted to know that experience
first hand. And so he went to the teacher and begged him to teach him
a way to achieve the inner peace that radiated so obviously from the
teacher. The teacher accepted him as his student but quickly found
that the man couldn't understand any of the philosophical points
he
was making and as a matter of fact couldn't even remember the
mantra
Om when he tried to teach it to him. The teacher lovingly said, "My oh
my, you don't seem to know anything at all, can't be taught,
and can't
remember anything. You are devoted and sincere in your desire to gain
happiness though, so I will try to help you. My son, what do you
know?" The man said, "Oh great teacher, the only thing I know is cows.
All my life I've spent caring for cows, making sure they graze,
are
milked, and are kept clean. Yes, for me, everything is cows." "Well,
that's alright," said the teacher, "then you know what sound the
cows
make." "Oh yes," said the man, "they say moo." "Very well then," said
the teacher, "for you, moo will be your mantra. All you have to do is
say moo continually and you will reach freedom from suffering and know
real bliss." So the man chanted moo, moo, moo when he took the cows
out to graze and he chanted moo, moo, moo when he milked them, and he
chanted moo, moo, moo when he cleaned them. He chanted moo all the
time and very soon merged with that vibration, which is Om backward,
and reached the highest heights of joyous understanding and lived
happily ever after.

From this story, we learn that it is virtually impossible to chant Om
"wrong". It is, after all, an insentient sound. But the giver of this
sound to the universe knows the intention and devotion of the
practitioner and that is by what we will be rewarded. It is said that
one minute of sincere chanting is superior to a thousand hours of mere
sounding of the words. A parrot can be taught to recite a mantra but
this will be just mere vibrations in the air. It is the love and
worship behind the sound that counts. Technically though, there is a
"correct" way to chant Om. It is made up of three letters: A, U, M.
These contain all the sounds there are. The A is guttural and comes
from the throat. It is pronounced without any part of the tongue or
palate in contact. The U sound comes from the middle of the sounding
board, the palate. In Sanskrit, the A and U join together to become O.
The O sound is vibrated from the navel/ solar plexus area and sent up
to the sternum to the voice region, the lips, where the M sound is
prolonged and vibrated up to the crown of the head. This vibrating M
is felt in every cell of the body and is beamed out lovingly,
soothingly, powerfully, to everything, everyone, everywhere.
Intellectually and metaphysically, A stands for the physical world
perceptible to the senses, the material world. U represents the astral
and dream planes, heaven and hell. M is the unknown, deep sleep, and
that which is unfathomable to the intellect. Thus Om contains the
entire spectrum of sound, words, worlds, and concepts. Om represents
the source of all light, love, and wisdom.

There are three ways to do mantras - aloud, silently but while
mouthing or humming the mantra, and completely silently within
oneself. When done aloud and particularly when done with others, the
sound of Om is energizing, calming, and healing. Although it is often
encouraged to do your mantra all the time, it would certainly be
questionable to consider chanting Om aloud in the middle of a board
meeting. Similarly, it may be preferable to do Om silently just by
moving your lips if you are in a movie theater. Chanting Om completely
silently is considered the most potent method because it is not
dependent on having a human voice box, or lips, or facial muscles, all
of which are temporary manifestations compared to the billions of
years you will be fully at one with Om. It is advantageous to
spiritual development to consider the theological, philosophical and
mystical aspects of Om while chanting with your physical eyes closed,
looking through the third eye, and paying attention to your breath.
This may seem complex and complicated, but once in synch, it happens
naturally as Om reveals itself, your Real Self, to you.
__________________________________________________
____________________________________
I hope this helps!

Hi !
I am xxx . I was born and bought up in India and am now living in
Canada.
I am really impressed by your website on Meditation. The purpose of
writing this mail to you is to focus your attention on the Sahaja
Yoga. I hope you must heard about it.
You can know more about that on the website www.sahajayoga.org  . In
this type of meditation the founder that is Mata Nirmala Devi used to
say that meditate in front of my photograph. She has given the name
vibration to the sensation we feel in the form of coolness in the
palm's and over head. It is true that people do that feel the coolness
in the head and palm's  while meditating. But She used to say that it
is the flow of energy from her to the people who are doing that. I
know She is making fools of the common people. By saying that She is a
god.
If you go through her website and see also the miracle photograph's
then u can imagine. How She is making fools of common people who do
not know about meditation.
Please write me . What is the truth and scientific reason's behind her
techniques. that she used to say as .vibrations
What is the truth of vibrations.
I hope u will reply me soon.
Thanking you.
Yours Sincerely

Answer:
  Dear xxx,
I too have gone to her site, saw the claims, checked it out, but had
no reaction. This doesn't mean that someone else couldn't find
something there that had spiritual value. I did witness myself having
skeptical thoughts, but chose not to dwell on them. I sent out my
hopes and prayers for the founder, and everyone who follows her, that
what she is doing is righteous. I must point out though, that being
involved with her isn't necessarily "bad" even if, as you have said
"She is making fools of the common people". I have had the experience
of learning alot from "false gurus". The word Guru, loosely
translated, means "remover of darkness, bringer of light", and just to
see how vulnerable people are to promises of spiritual gain in
whatever form it may come, would be a great insight, and in a way,
have illuminated our understanding. But, we must have discrimination.
When we look at the tragedies of those who blindly followed Jim Jones,
the Hale-Bopp people, Charles Manson, and many others, we can't
understand how they could have allowed themselves to be so mislead.
They were all lead to believe that they would benefit from following
their Guru's instructions, and all of the Guru's directed them to
treat them as if they were God or God's representative, and the
followers "fell for it" and had a terrible ending. Unimaginable
gullibility to us, faith to them. So, we must be wise in opting to
follow a Guru. The "real" Guru is everpresent in us in every moment,
and the One who leads us to finding the eternal, divine Truth that is
present in the silence of our own hearts is who is appropriate to
follow.  The technique given may differ...It may come from looking at
a picture of a saint, from questioning "Who am I", from chanting the
name of God, from some type of meditation, and so on. But the result
will always be greater lasting peace. It's easy to get a rush of
temporary bliss (even Baskin-Robbins Rocky Road ice cream has been
known to bring this about), but when we find a real peace, that can be
called "Good". And when we find that something is taking our peace
away, and that would include the aching for bliss (which every Heroin
junkie experiences), that can be called "Bad". And often, great
charismatic figures do generate certain temporary sensations in
people, but we must be wise in appreciating the value of these
"vibrations". We should be asking ourselves "Are they really letting
me find and know the Divine Reality within, or are they further adding
illusionary dreams to the already mysterious drama that is known as
they play of Maya?"
I wish you well.
Peace and blessings,
Bob

Hello G,

I think people can share the answers that they have
found, but it will be just that: sharing and nothing
more. As there aren't two persons on the Earth that
are  the same, one's answers couldn't fit to the
other's life. The first step to the wisdom is self
knowing. So, maybe the other can help only here: to
know yourself better.
I don't know what the Truth is, or where is, but i do
know that once you've found yourself being in the true
way you are, and doing everything as your true being
says, that is truth for me. That makes me fear less,
and gives me courage to move on. The more is true, the
less is fear...
If the answers are not in the mind and not in the
feelings, than where are they? Everything is relative
on this Universe!! And everything is changing!!
Everything is born and after a while is dying...
creatures, plants, stars etc.. There is a path that we
are following... everyone has a path of it's own... i
have my path and i shall follow it. But it's up to me
to let the things flow (in the right way) or to
interveen and make my own stream...
What is “BEYOND”? Where is that? What does it mean? Is
it easy to get there (beyond)? I don't see a problem
in “the changing I”, uncontrarely, i see it is a good
thing, what would we do if we won't ever change? I
would like to change (in the better)!! I don't think
that others can give you any guidance... i believe
that the only guidance that may be true is the one
from our heart. To feel it's right! What is the
“Source”? My ego is manageable... it can change...
depends on my inner state.
What i don't understand is why people want to get rid
of the past, when the past is the only thing that
helps them understand?! So here's how i see the
things: there is the past – the history, to be
analysed – and the the heart –which represents the
present in this case. In order to do a change to
myself i use those tools. In order to make a decision,
i use those tools.. in everything that i do and will
do i'll use those tools...
So, this is me: a mind, a soul and a consciousness
(which i think is the witness you are talking
about)--there is nothing relative in that.  What i
know is that i started existing since my parents made
me and i will stop being when i will die (because i
think that without a conscious people don't exist.
When people die, their mind, soul and conscious dies
too).. So, this world exists as long as i exist. When
i shall not be anymore, this world will stop existing
for me... Perception is the one that makes us see the
things around us. My perception will stop when i'll
close my eyes forever..
What is Jnana? And what is shanti om?
Thank you,
mirela


















=====
Athanor Publishing HouseBd. 1 Decembrie 1918Bl. 105, Ap. 10Petrosani,
2675Hunedoara, Romania0040-721-374 002

__________________________________________________
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SIVANANDA DAILY READING FOR 27 DECEMBER
KEY TO PERFECTION

Meditate on the atman; you will enjoy peace and bliss. The more you
grow in aspiration and meditation the more God-like you grow, for in
meditation is the light of the Lord. Meditate and charge your battery
by contact with God. Dive deep into the chambers of your heart
through profound and silent meditation and bring up the pearl of
truth. Meditate and retire to your innermost centre. Abide now in
perfect serenity and the peace that passeth all understanding.

Fear, distress, worry, temptation and despair will assail you during
meditation. Repeat the Lord's name vigorously and sincerely - all
will vanish. Meditate amidst noise, study amidst noise. Discipline
and again discipline. There will be no tossing of the mind for you.
You will have a strong unperturbed mind. If purity increases, the
body becomes light and the mind becomes cheerful. One attains greater
balance of mind and the power of concentration increases. You enter
into deep meditation. If for one day you do not practise meditation,
you will lose much; you will not be able to reach the original
spiritual height the next day. Therefore always be regular in your
meditation. Enquire, "Who am I?" Find the seer, find the
knower. Meditate on satcidananda atman, the inner ruler, the
indweller.

Meditate on Brahman as support, greatness, wisdom, bliss and
existence. The light which never fails is the light of meditation.
You experience samadhi (the vision of truth) through the light of
meditation. Moksa (emancipation) is very near to him who is perfect
is meditation. Connect your mind with the mind of God through
meditation or yoga. Your life will become divine, your life will be
transformed.

Meditation is the means; knowledge is the end. Meditation is the
process; knowledge is the culmination. In meditation there is
struggle, striving or effort. In knowledge there is no striving. So
long as there is meditation, the meditator is only an aspirant. When
meditation ceases and the goal is reached, the meditator becomes the
knower of truth - all meditation and effort cease. He is a jivanmukta
(liberated sage). When you try to behold a tree, there is effort in
the beginning of perception. Later it becomes a continuous stream of
consciousness of the tree. So is knowledge of Brahman.



___________________________

Dear Group,

My name is Martin, I´m from Liverpool in the northwest of England. I´m 22 years
old and have been meditating on and off for a few years now. Recently I have
begun following an Hermetics course and meditation and discipline of thought is
important for this course, so I have taken to meditating at least once a day
now.

One of the exercises in the course is to achieve ´vacancy of mind´- something
which is common to many meditation traditions as far as I am aware - emptiness
of mind. I am having a little difficulty with this, as my auditory thoughts, my
internal dialogue is difficult for me to control and I was wondering if anyone
in this group has any hints or suggestions for me.

Thanks a lot,

Martin

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Martin,

Welcome to our group.

Excuse me for LOL (laughing out loud) when I read your post. This is THE
major problem for everyone and must have been talked about millions of times
over many thousands of years. I guess there are enough hints and suggestions
to fill several books. I believe the best ones are those people have
actually tried and have found to work. I think I have lost count of the
techniques I have tried, most work at a superficial level. This fact might
be a hint as to a good approach.

When you try a technique, you might find that it works for a while then
gradually becomes less effective. Most people will then try another
technique and the cycle simply repeats itself. The problem, I feel, is that
we see meditation as a separate activity from the rest of our lives. Once
you break the separation, you see more clearly how the rest of your life
influences your meditation. Notice how most of your "mind chatter" revolves
around things that have happened to you during the past few days. In the
same way our day to day life influences our meditation, we need to allow our
meditation to influence our day to day life.

If we can carry over our meditation stillness into our day to day life, that
too will become more peaceful. As our day to day life becomes calmer, we
will experience less mind chatter during our meditation for the simple
reason that there will be less activity for the mind to work upon.

So, my suggestion would be to develop the habit of making more and more
decisions that bring more and more calmness into your day to day life. The
act of meditating is one such decision. The practice of developing greater
inner body awareness throughout the day is another. (For instance, notice
how many times during the day you can become aware of your breathing - that
act of breath awareness will bring tremendous calm to you any time of day).
Your general spiritual development is another great source of peace.

In the long run, day to day calmness will bring greater calmness and less
mind chatter during your meditation by gradually draining the fuel that the
mind feeds on. Most of the techniques you can use while you meditate are
what I will term "quick fixes". They generally work at a superficial level.
It is useful to know them and use them occasionally, but you still need to
work at the deeper level for the more fundamental changes that change your
whole life.

Look forward to hearing how you progress.


...Tony

PS - Your post almost encourages me to re-start my daily meditation journal
posts - you might find my mind chatter experiences quite funny, almost as
funny as trying to control your own mind!

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Cosgrove [mailto:martincosgrove@...]
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 10:52 PM
To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Meditation Society of America] INTRO AND QUESTION


Dear Group,

My name is Martin, I´m from Liverpool in the northwest of England. I´m 22
years old and have been meditating on and off for a few years now. Recently
I have begun following an Hermetics course and meditation and discipline of
thought is important for this course, so I have taken to meditating at least
once a day now.

One of the exercises in the course is to achieve ´vacancy of mind´-
something which is common to many meditation traditions as far as I am
aware - emptiness of mind. I am having a little difficulty with this, as my
auditory thoughts, my internal dialogue is difficult for me to control and I
was wondering if anyone in this group has any hints or suggestions for me.

Thanks a lot,

Martin

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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Dear Martin,

Hiya. My name is michael and I am in my fifties and also have been meditating
off and on for quite some time. <grin>
There is no way to 'achieve' vacancy of mind by forcing the mind to be quiet or
empty. As a beginner you can spend some part of meditation simply observing the
antics of the mind. Of course you will be caught up in these antics from time to
time. This is normal. When you do find that you have been caught up in the
mind's antics, don't chastise yourself. Simply say, "Ah, thinking!" and continue
to observe what the mind is doing. The mind will eventually tire and slow down
or stop. Then start up again. This cycle is normal and will eventually fade.

Our mind is actually a useful tool. However, it can also be our greatest
obstacle to realizing peace. Especially when thought triggers strong emotions.
We have a tendancy to believe everything we think. Most of our life is lived in
our heads. By learning to simply observe the mind we can begin to drop the
attachment to whatever it is doing. Sure, this practice takes time and patience,
anything worthwhile does.

Eventually one sees that indeed they are not the mind and its antics. Then the
mind once again becomes the servant, no longer is it the master. That which
observes the mind is who you truly are, it is buddha nature.

wishing you well - michael

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Martin Cosgrove
   To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 2:51 PM
   Subject: [Meditation Society of America] INTRO AND QUESTION


   Dear Group,

   My name is Martin, I´m from Liverpool in the northwest of England. I´m 22
years old and have been meditating on and off for a few years now. Recently I
have begun following an Hermetics course and meditation and discipline of
thought is important for this course, so I have taken to meditating at least
once a day now.

   One of the exercises in the course is to achieve ´vacancy of mind´- something
which is common to many meditation traditions as far as I am aware - emptiness
of mind. I am having a little difficulty with this, as my auditory thoughts, my
internal dialogue is difficult for me to control and I was wondering if anyone
in this group has any hints or suggestions for me.

   Thanks a lot,

   Martin

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]