Here is a link to a page that presents the various forms of weak or circular
type logic arguments. It not only defines them but also describes ways to detect
them.

http://ec.hku.hk/acadgrammar/general/argue/illogic/detectin.htm

The idea is to be able to detect flaws in logic as others present their
position(s) on whichever topic. What might be interesting is to apply the rules
to one's own logical perception of things. Or not...grin.

ciao - michael


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks to all of you who sent me suggestions about my compu-problems.
I have to share the one that really had me laughing the most. Check
out these software programs:
http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=443&p=2
Enjoy!

Bob wrote:
> OK - I give up! Since using Windows XP and going to Netscape 7.0
> (which I understand Bill Gates has necessitated with XP), about 2
> weeks ago, this is the second time I haven't been able to post. I
> think it went from 11/27, 2am EST until now, 11/29 12:50pm. So,
what's
> the deal? Also, I think that Word 95 was much better. Since I'm not
> serving any cheese to go along with my whine, I'll stop here about
> computor stuff, but don't get me started about injuries to the
Eagles
> QB's!
> BTW, seriously (or semi-seriously), I know that the universe does
this
> kind of stuff just to get us to quit attaching to the material world
> and look within to find That which is eternal, infinite peace.
> Just having fun,
> Bob

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the nice link.

I was wondering if we could take this further and look at meditation
fallacies?

Could we come up with our favorite meditation fallacies and share them with
others.

I can set the ball rolling with a few.

1) The longer the meditation the better

From my personal experience longer meditations are not necessarily "better".
It seems like we adjust for the length of time we have for meditation. Again
from my personal experience, after about 10 to 20 minutes, additional time
is not proportional to benefit. The 10-20 minutes has something to do with
how long it takes for certain physical reactions to take place.

2) A perfect lotus position is required if you want to be a serious
mediator.

I spent many months in agony trying to perfect my mediation position. I did
not seriously start to meditate until I found a comfortable position.

...Tony



-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Read [mailto:maread@...]
Sent: Saturday, November 30, 2002 8:06 PM
To: thewaystation; meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com;
nondualitysalon; gururatings
Subject: [Meditation Society of America] logic


Here is a link to a page that presents the various forms of weak or circular
type logic arguments. It not only defines them but also describes ways to
detect them.

http://ec.hku.hk/acadgrammar/general/argue/illogic/detectin.htm

The idea is to be able to detect flaws in logic as others present their
position(s) on whichever topic. What might be interesting is to apply the
rules to one's own logical perception of things. Or not...grin.

ciao - michael


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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Hello Tony.

Meditation fallacies? Hmm...sure to be someone who would object but the greatest
fallacy is that meditation practice will ensure enlightenment. There are Zen
teaching stories that illustrate this. And yet meditation is part and parcel of
Zen teachings.

If meditation practice will not guarantee enlightenment, why practice? Looked at
this way there is nothing to be gained by meditation, eh? But, consider
meditation as a looking within and we can begin to see that the who and what we
think we are is not who we are. In other words, we can begin to see through the
fallacies that we hold to be truths.

All manner of things can occur during a meditation session. Joys, ecstacies,
fears, emotions, visions, transports of all kinds. Meditation is a turning
within, self examination as it were. It can be a fearless examination of the
internal picture show where we throw can everything on the line or it can be
just more distraction.

When fear arises we may want to run from it and find the bliss. When we do the
fear simply follows us. It waits, we think it is trying to trap us or bind us
somehow. What it is really doing is trying to tell us to accept everything. We
wil always be followed by our fears until we learn to turn and examine them, see
through them, accept them let them dissolve.

Well, I suppose I have wandered a bit from your origional suggestion. But, I
think the best way to dissolve fallacies about meditation is to meditate and see
what happens. :-)

love and blessings - michael



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bette and I got to meet our new little boy today. He's 31 days old,
and we'll be able to take him home with us on Dec.20. What a great
holiday event to look forward to! I've posted 2 pictures of him in the
photo section so you too can meet him. Of course the pictures aren't
1/1000th as cute as he is in real life. Enjoy!
Bob

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@y..., medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Bette and I got to meet our new little boy today. He's 31 days old,
> and we'll be able to take him home with us on Dec.20. What a great
> holiday event to look forward to! I've posted 2 pictures of him in
the
> photo section so you too can meet him. Of course the pictures aren't
> 1/1000th as cute as he is in real life. Enjoy!
> Bob

G:  Congratulations and many years of enjoyment... nothing is sweeter
than puppy kisses and all the unconditional love that they bring...

   shanti om ...g...

Dear Michael and All,
What is written here is so very accurate! The next issue of The Inner
Traveler will have a sub-theme about Fear, so I see dealing with this
as most beneficial to spiritual evolution. And what can be seen in
Michael, Ganga, Judi, and others who post here, is an absence of fear.
They have all encountered it, faced it, and seen that the "I" who was
afraid isn't real. Once seen, no need for fear, and no focal point for
it to focus and intensify. And then the fun begins. It was always
there, but we tended to run away from "not fun". And after facing
fear, Fun is fun and funny and Not Fun is fun and funny. As they say
on the street, "It's all good".
Peace and blessings,
Bob
"Michael Read" <maread@t...> wrote:
> Hello Tony.
>
> Meditation fallacies? Hmm...sure to be someone who would object but
the greatest fallacy is that meditation practice will ensure
enlightenment. There are Zen teaching stories that illustrate this.
And yet meditation is part and parcel of Zen teachings.
>
> If meditation practice will not guarantee enlightenment, why
practice? Looked at this way there is nothing to be gained by
meditation, eh? But, consider meditation as a looking within and we
can begin to see that the who and what we think we are is not who we
are. In other words, we can begin to see through the fallacies that we
hold to be truths.
>
> All manner of things can occur during a meditation session. Joys,
ecstacies, fears, emotions, visions, transports of all kinds.
Meditation is a turning within, self examination as it were. It can be
a fearless examination of the internal picture show where we throw can
everything on the line or it can be just more distraction.
>
> When fear arises we may want to run from it and find the bliss. When
we do the fear simply follows us. It waits, we think it is trying to
trap us or bind us somehow. What it is really doing is trying to tell
us to accept everything. We wil always be followed by our fears until
we learn to turn and examine them, see through them, accept them let
them dissolve.
>
> Well, I suppose I have wandered a bit from your origional
suggestion. But, I think the best way to dissolve fallacies about
meditation is to meditate and see what happens. :-)
>
> love and blessings - michael
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@y..., medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Dear Michael and All,
> What is written here is so very accurate! The next issue of The
Inner
> Traveler will have a sub-theme about Fear, so I see dealing with
this
> as most beneficial to spiritual evolution. And what can be seen in
> Michael, Ganga, Judi, and others who post here, is an absence of
fear.
> They have all encountered it, faced it, and seen that the "I" who
was
> afraid isn't real. Once seen, no need for fear, and no focal point
for
> it to focus and intensify. And then the fun begins. It was always
> there, but we tended to run away from "not fun". And after facing
> fear, Fun is fun and funny and Not Fun is fun and funny. As they say
> on the street, "It's all good".
> Peace and blessings,

********
"I saw what I had been doing all my life very clearly, and there was
no way I could deny it. Stunned, I got up from my meditation mat and
went outside, soon finding myself walking down the hill on a dusty
gravel road way out in the middle of nowhere, laughing wildly, then
crying, then laughing again, at the absurd, embarrassing, beautiful
truth of it."

-- Scott Morrison

Have fun! :-0
Judi

Hi Bob,

Congratulations!

I am sure you will love the way they express how they feel so openly.

...Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: medit8ionsociety [mailto:no_reply@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 5:26 AM
To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Meditation Society of America] Our New Little Boy


Bette and I got to meet our new little boy today. He's 31 days old,
and we'll be able to take him home with us on Dec.20. What a great
holiday event to look forward to! I've posted 2 pictures of him in the
photo section so you too can meet him. Of course the pictures aren't
1/1000th as cute as he is in real life. Enjoy!
Bob


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
meditationsocietyofamerica-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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Hi Michael,

Thanks for such a brilliant answer. It really hit home for me. This was one
of the fallacies I lived under - and I am not sure I have escaped it yet!

I like your approach of meditating to see what happens - I look forward to
meeting all my fallacies.

...Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Read [mailto:maread@...]
Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 10:39 PM
To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] logic and meditation


Hello Tony.

Meditation fallacies? Hmm...sure to be someone who would object but the
greatest fallacy is that meditation practice will ensure enlightenment.
There are Zen teaching stories that illustrate this. And yet meditation is
part and parcel of Zen teachings.

If meditation practice will not guarantee enlightenment, why practice?
Looked at this way there is nothing to be gained by meditation, eh? But,
consider meditation as a looking within and we can begin to see that the who
and what we think we are is not who we are. In other words, we can begin to
see through the fallacies that we hold to be truths.

All manner of things can occur during a meditation session. Joys, ecstacies,
fears, emotions, visions, transports of all kinds. Meditation is a turning
within, self examination as it were. It can be a fearless examination of the
internal picture show where we throw can everything on the line or it can be
just more distraction.

When fear arises we may want to run from it and find the bliss. When we do
the fear simply follows us. It waits, we think it is trying to trap us or
bind us somehow. What it is really doing is trying to tell us to accept
everything. We wil always be followed by our fears until we learn to turn
and examine them, see through them, accept them let them dissolve.

Well, I suppose I have wandered a bit from your origional suggestion. But, I
think the best way to dissolve fallacies about meditation is to meditate and
see what happens. :-)

love and blessings - michael

You are most welcome, Tony. You mention escaping. and I assume you mean the
fear(s). I wish I could tell you that escape is possible...unfortunately, it
isn't. Delay, however, is the norm for us human beings. My sink full of dirty
dishes is a prime example. I was going to do them when I got home but
doggone-it-all I recieved a cut on my palm today and it needs to heal before
doing the dishes. Gee - it is always something.

The quote of Scott Morrison's that Judi posted. That is what happens. Now,
trying to make it happen may not give the results one is looking for. And that
is the delay, right there. It is almost built in. We have layered a set of great
expectations onto the concept of awaking/enlightenment/understanding. We expect
the Bliss, the Joy, the Light, the Holy Name of God, cosmic Awareness, Powers,
infinite Love...and so on. Or, we may be desireing to somehow reconnect with the
Divine.

There is no use blaming anyone, or the circumstances of your life for having
built up this huge barrier of expectations. The hurdle is there and something
must be done about it. But what? Jump it and it another takes it's place. Go
around and you still want to jump it. Knock it over and trample it to pieces and
you just glue it back together again.
The hurdle is only in the mind, it is illusion. So, let it go - let it be.
Instead take a look at that thing which is creating the barrier. Turn from the
hurdle and look at who is trying to jump over, go around.

In my experience it IS scary when one does this. I read that Ramana felt fear
before he let go.  You see, finally, that the very hanging onto being you is the
only barrier. You see, finally, that the illusion of this world extends even to
oneself. Scary? You know it!

To find a glimpse of how it all turns out read the Zen Ox-herding story. Here is
a good rendition of the tale. http://www.mro.org/zmm/artgallery/oxherd.html

When the revolution comes - it will be worth it. You will survive.

ciao - michael
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: tosime
   To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 12:15 PM
   Subject: [Meditation Society of America] logic and meditation


   Hi Michael,

   Thanks for such a brilliant answer. It really hit home for me. This was one
   of the fallacies I lived under - and I am not sure I have escaped it yet!

   I like your approach of meditating to see what happens - I look forward to
   meeting all my fallacies.

   ...Tony

   -----Original Message-----
   From: Michael Read [mailto:maread@...]
   Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 10:39 PM
   To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: Re: [Meditation Society of America] logic and meditation


   Hello Tony.

   Meditation fallacies? Hmm...sure to be someone who would object but the
   greatest fallacy is that meditation practice will ensure enlightenment.
   There are Zen teaching stories that illustrate this. And yet meditation is
   part and parcel of Zen teachings.

   If meditation practice will not guarantee enlightenment, why practice?
   Looked at this way there is nothing to be gained by meditation, eh? But,
   consider meditation as a looking within and we can begin to see that the who
   and what we think we are is not who we are. In other words, we can begin to
   see through the fallacies that we hold to be truths.

   All manner of things can occur during a meditation session. Joys, ecstacies,
   fears, emotions, visions, transports of all kinds. Meditation is a turning
   within, self examination as it were. It can be a fearless examination of the
   internal picture show where we throw can everything on the line or it can be
   just more distraction.

   When fear arises we may want to run from it and find the bliss. When we do
   the fear simply follows us. It waits, we think it is trying to trap us or
   bind us somehow. What it is really doing is trying to tell us to accept
   everything. We wil always be followed by our fears until we learn to turn
   and examine them, see through them, accept them let them dissolve.

   Well, I suppose I have wandered a bit from your origional suggestion. But, I
   think the best way to dissolve fallacies about meditation is to meditate and
   see what happens. :-)

   love and blessings - michael


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://www.mro.org/zmm/talks/teisho26.htm

You may find this of interest.

peace
nothing left to do
what is before me
that i'll do
happily or not
who can say?

ciao - michael


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Mulla's new boss tells him, "I'll give you 8 bucks an hour
starting today and in three months, I'll raise it to 10 bucks an
hour. So when would you like to start?"
"In 3 months."

Namaste Dear One -

   Thanks to mike here is a mantra that i want to share and pass
along....   i can't get through it once without breaking out in
laughter .... do it internally and break out in laughter...

   Ah - HaHa - Namaha

Go ahead and see if you can get through a whole mala's worth...

Shanti OM ...g...    in laughter

Dear Ganga,
How joy-full it is to meditate and laugh.
Re-union with eternal union of all love and light. Thank you!
Peace and blessings,
Bob
"G" <crystalkundalini@h...> wrote:
> Namaste Dear One -
>
>   Thanks to mike here is a mantra that i want to share and pass
> along....   i can't get through it once without breaking out in
> laughter .... do it internally and break out in laughter...
>
>   Ah - HaHa - Namaha
>
> Go ahead and see if you can get through a whole mala's worth...
>
> Shanti OM ...g...    in laughter

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@y..., medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Dear Ganga,
> How joy-full it is to meditate and laugh.
> Re-union with eternal union of all love and light. Thank you!
> Peace and blessings,
> Bob

G: should have added it to the book... hahahahahah...  people on the
path need to laugh it gives one the strength to keep going in the
dark hours...   in the end what remains is Peace and Laughter...

shanti om ..g...  glad you are enjoying it...

Hi all,
I just finished Ganga's book "Kundalini", and really
enjoyed it. The version I had was an early "uncorrected proof
copy" that had lots of typos, but they quickly became irrelevant
because the content was so enlightening. The publisher (Papajeff) has
informed me that when Ganga returns from India in January, there will
be an editing of the typos that are in the present form of the book. I
guess that this means that the copies now available may become
collectable rarities. We will be reviewing it fully in an upcoming
issue of The Inner Traveler, but for now, typos and all, I have to say
that I think it will be of great benefit to all meditators, not just
those going through the Kundalini process. Those that are in need of
Kundalini direction will find the book invaluable, but there is so
much more there. As you have seen from her posts here and on other web
sites and groups, the universe flows through Ganga lovingly, wisely,
and purely, and without an ego trip blocking the Source.
You can get a copy at:
http://www.mindgoal.com/kundlinibook.html
Peace and blessings,
Bob
PS: You can also find Papajeffs excellent "Sunrise at Two Lions" book
at the same site.

> I just finished Ganga's book "Kundalini", and really

Wow, he named his book after one of the most ruthless sonofaguns I
ever saw in a movie.  ;o) JK.  Actually the movie guy spelled his
name with a C.

Toecutter:  That there's Cundalini and Cundalini wants 'is hand back.

The Potion

****

Once upon a time, there was a young woman who was constantly
nagged by her mother-in-law.

Eventually, the young woman could no longer stand this aggravation
and went to the local herbalist for some poison to kill the old
woman.

After some thought, the herbalist gave her a heavily-scented
potion.  He told her this potion should be massaged into the skin
daily, and after six weeks, her mother-in-law would die.

The young woman did as instructed.  Each day she gave her mother-
in-law a massage with the potion.  Gradually the old woman's angry
temper seemed to disappear, and empathy grew between the two
women.

After awhile, they started to understand and respect each other.

The young woman began to regret her desire to kill her mother-in-
law, and as time ran out, she became increasingly worried.

She returned to the herbalist and begged for an antidote to the
poison.

The wise old man smiled and explained that no medicinal antidote
was needed.  The "poison" she had been massaging into the old
woman's skin was simply a mixture of aromatic oils.

--Author Unknown

from The Mountain:
The power of touch, don't underestimate it.  We often seek the
exotic, only to find the answer was in our hands all along.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@y..., medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I just finished Ganga's book "Kundalini", and really
> enjoyed it. The version I had was an early "uncorrected proof
> copy" that had lots of typos, but they quickly became irrelevant
> because the content was so enlightening. The publisher (Papajeff)
has informed me that when Ganga returns from India in January, there
will be an editing of the typos that are in the present form of the
book. I guess that this means that the copies now available may become
> collectable rarities. We will be reviewing it fully in an upcoming
> issue of The Inner Traveler, but for now, typos and all, I have to
say that I think it will be of great benefit to all meditators, not
just those going through the Kundalini process. Those that are in
need of Kundalini direction will find the book invaluable, but there
is so much more there. As you have seen from her posts here and on
other web sites and groups, the universe flows through Ganga
lovingly, wisely, and purely, and without an ego trip blocking the
Source.
> You can get a copy at:
> http://www.mindgoal.com/kundlinibook.html
> Peace and blessings,
> Bob
> PS: You can also find Papajeffs excellent "Sunrise at Two Lions"
book at the same site.

G: first of all let me say that Papajeffs book Sunrise at Two Lions
is a Wonderfully told story that can inspire ALL ages..  for younger
ones it is a great story and for older *seekers* there are lots of
great spiritual truths within it....   Overcoming and recognising
fear and doubt on the path..  a Great read....

  Thankyou for the words concerning the book...  it indeed may be used
by any on a spiritual path but i feel is invaluable to those
traversing the Kundalini path...   there are so many books out on
theories - chakras - etc..but precious few written by those that have
endured and completed the path successfully and have found by trial
and error what works and what doesn't...  so i pray that it can take
those from fear into balance - from illness to health and
Liberation......

Love shanti shanti Maha Shanti OM ..g...

Tonight (Fri. 12/6) will be the last meditation class for this
semester at MCCC. As usual, Room 105, Parkhouse Hall, 7 to 8:30 pm.
We'll be reviewing many of the techniques and concepts we have shared
this Fall. This is also traditionally a time where we offer those
things (books, CD's, movies, etc.), that we have found to have been
beneficial to our spiritual growth. And as usual, I will be telling
jokes, offering commentary on the Philly sports scene, and somehow
connecting it all with meditation. So, snow storm, and other higher
powers permitting, I hope to see you in class tonight.

This great reference book has been posted in the Files section. I
remember reading it in the wild and crazy sixties, and finding it to
be an excellent guide for Inner Travelers. Upon rereading it today,
it still is! Thanks to Kevin for posting it.

so! there you are, buncha blithering idiots - that's you there, eh?
a'searching all pie-eyed for your sweet version of dee-vine re-ality
where everything is understood and makes cosmic damnital sense.

an what do ya do?! ya let yer flippin' 'magination run away wit ya!
that's wot! an there ya are off into all kinds of demeted reali-titties
just a trying to suck up to some fancy assed concept of god an the
freaking future of a mutated monkey species. what a hoot!

what a sad and sorry sight! you just foolishly go on and on and on
thinking up new shit to think up. but hey, who am i to talk?
some damn fool that realizes this can't go on. well, it could, we humans
can be so damn dumm. hey everybody! why don't we see how long
we can milk the earth dry, murder each other, commit mayhem and
just generally see how long it takes to really fuck things up?

such irony...you seem to have to, i mean really have to get caught up
in war and hatred and violence. and fer christ/allah/brahma/who the
hell ever's sake just have to be right! what an absurd obsession!

what pinheads. sigh...you just don't seem to get it, do you? there is no need
to be killin' and slandering and subjegating and bee'n all 'round mean to
each other. no need at'all.

just a thought - anyhoo.

This Rant sponsered by Damnital! The elixer of joy and abundant living.
Why, Folks, one sip of Damnital and those unwonted urges to murder and
mayhem simply fade away. Yes, one little sip and the ordinary becomes
divine and the divine becomes rather mudane.

Try the New and Improved Damnital* see the world of the super mundane.
Don't let your heart stop beating until you've tried it.

*New and Improved Damnitall is the same old Damnitall you may know and
love - it just comes in the Jumbo Size! Enough for EveryBody !!!




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I received an email tonight from a much respected spiritual sister
that had this to say:
"Today on "The Dr. Phil Show" Larry King was being interviewed. He
spoke about an encounter with Sri Gurudev and how He helped Larry
learn about dealing with anger. It was spectacular!" Coincidentally,
tonight, at our last class for the Fall semester at MCCC, we spent
some time discussing books, tapes, and videos that could be of
benefit, and Swami Satchidananda's name came up many times. For
instance, the best book  about meditation is also the
oldest....Patanjali's Yoga Sutras. And Swamiji's translation is the
clearest I've ever found. Similarly, the best book dealing with the
different classic paths of finding union (Yoga) with the divine is the
Bhagavad Gita, and once again, Swami Satchidananda's translation is a
must-read for all meditators. We just reviewed and recommended both of
these books in the new issue of The Inner Traveler, but we failed to
mention that there are also videos and audio tapes of him available
that deal with all aspects of meditation, yoga, and life in general.
So, I do want to suggest checking out Shakticom, the distributor of
his books, videos, and tapes. Their URL is:
http://www.shakticom.org/store/agora.cgi
This is one of the great things about living in these times.....you
can go on line, get videos of a totally enlightened saint,  and sit
down and recieve their darshan right in the comfort of your own home,
and bathe in their wisdom and love...So, as I did in class tonight, I
want to suggest that you check this out. I have every confidence you
will be glad you did.
Peace and blessings,
Bob
PS: For more about Swami Satchidananda, his ashram's URL is:
http://www.yogaville.org

From "Best Friends" magazine:
A dog, who has taken the fine art of mastering humans to a new level,
has left an animal hospital in India after recovering from kidney
problems. Sai, a seven year old white Spitz, is believed to be the
incarnation of a saint, Shirdi Saibaba, who lived 100 years ago.

The canine's heavenly status earns him some pretty special treatment.
He travels in a limo, lives in air-conditioned quarters, eats out of
cut-glass bowls, and has four attendants. Locals carry him through
town on Mondays and Thursdays, so he can spread his goodwill. Devotees
believe Sai is the saint reborn because of his perfect mannerisms,
temperament, and his apparent enjoyment of prayer sessions.

I just received a "Donkey Gruntler" in the mail from our beloved
Ramon. If you want to see a picture of one, it's posted in our Photos
section, and if you want one, all you have to do is E-mail Zero the
Wunderweight at;  zero@...
And if you want to know what it does, let me quote from the enclosed
instructions: "It is the ultimate entertainer because it directly
affects your sense of yourself and evokes HAPPINESS in your soul."
I'll say this about that --- it makes you laugh and is justifiably
entitled to be taken not-seriously. It really does sound like a Donkey
Grunting and has a cool vibration. It is free and is being offered as
a share ware and all that is requested is that you make a 'love
donation' and help spread the word.
As they say, "Try it, you'll like it!"
Peace and blessings,
Bob

Hi Bob,

Thanks for your nice description of the "Donkey Gruntler".

Could you give it a test ride and give us a review? I am particularly
interested in the more scientific perspective of how it works and what may
be happening in the background - even if it is only speculation.

My thanks also go out to Ramon who has given us so many cheerful posts. Look
forward to knowing what is new on the meditation front Ramon!

...Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: medit8ionsociety [mailto:no_reply@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 9:38 PM
To: meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Meditation Society of America] The Donkey Gruntler


I just received a "Donkey Gruntler" in the mail from our beloved
Ramon. If you want to see a picture of one, it's posted in our Photos
section, and if you want one, all you have to do is E-mail Zero the
Wunderweight at;  zero@...
And if you want to know what it does, let me quote from the enclosed
instructions: "It is the ultimate entertainer because it directly
affects your sense of yourself and evokes HAPPINESS in your soul."
I'll say this about that --- it makes you laugh and is justifiably
entitled to be taken not-seriously. It really does sound like a Donkey
Grunting and has a cool vibration. It is free and is being offered as
a share ware and all that is requested is that you make a 'love
donation' and help spread the word.
As they say, "Try it, you'll like it!"
Peace and blessings,
Bob


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XXXX Wrote:

I love the website... lots of great words and techniques ;) much
respect.

I'm having a kid soon. I am only 19. I was wondering if there was any
advice on raising my son right. I want him to realize at a young age
that we are all 1, and love is the way to go... you know, our common
belief of the universe.

I don't want to treat him as if I am schooling him on something, but I
just want him going in the right track, etc.

Any tips and advice would be greatly welcome.

Journal Entry - tosime
Date:  December 12
Type: Meditation on inner sounds (with earplugs)
Time: 07:35 a.m.
Duration: 57 minutes (open)
Posture: Seated on chair
Body: Eyes closed,
  - tongue tip to pallet,
  - hands on knees-index finger touching thumb.
Room Condition: Darkened room
  - One candle
  - Incense - one stick
  - Essential Oil - (Dawn+water on burner)
Pre-session: Ring Bell
  - Sip of water
  - Ear plugs
  - full body stretch (3 times).
Previous day's influence: Guru_satsang post
"Ramana Maharishi - Who Am I?"
Mind Chatter: Low.
Waves of bliss: None.
Chant (silent): "Real freedom is freedom from thought"
Experience:  Good Session.

Result:

Stopped posting for no particular reason even though I kept writing my
journal entries.

Practice update from last journal post:
1) Each time I strike the bell I clear my mind of whatever is uppermost in
my thoughts at that moment. When my mind is relatively clear, I then "strike
in" the frame of mind I want for my meditation - relaxed, still, without
expectation.

2) I have started chanting a phrase I make up just before I start my
session, if I feel inclined to chant - the chant is silent.

Chant was very effective in reducing mind chatter. Was able to observe mind
activity very clearly. Only a few times (5 to 8)was mind activity strong
enough to break the chant.

Relaxed sufficiently for some form of intuitive control to take me over. I
realized this when one of my fingers twitched to snap me out of one the mind
excursions. Inner sounds increased when this happened.

Occasionally I would stop the chant to explore the mindless state. I found
it easier to maintain this state. Mind chatter would creep in gradually and
I would resume the chant. Noticed a very distant, very faint form of mind
chatter in the background.

Explored the intuitive part of my mind. I found it very hard to explore
since there was no physical sense of its presence. It is only when the
"intuition" becomes conscious do I know it has "done" something. I feel like
I am gradually developing my "sense" of it. It is almost like a new sense
altogether. It is very very subtle until it reacts with my physical body or
transfers a thought to my mind.

All in all a good session.

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> XXXX Wrote:
>
> I love the website... lots of great words and techniques ;) much
> respect.
>
> I'm having a kid soon. I am only 19. I was wondering if there was
any
> advice on raising my son right. I want him to realize at a young age
> that we are all 1, and love is the way to go... you know, our common
> belief of the universe.
>
> I don't want to treat him as if I am schooling him on something, but
I just want him going in the right track, etc.
>
> Any tips and advice would be greatly welcome.

Dear XXXX,
Thanks for your kind words, and God bless you on your new exciting and
challenging fatherhood. As a Dad of two for the past 29 years, I can
only say that "Thy will be done"(and I do mean The Big Thy in the
sky), and we Dads can only try to be as righteous as we can be and
hope it rubs off. I think the most important things for spiritual
development are compassion and humility, and if you demonstrate these
qualities, your child will be receiving a greater treasure than a ton
of gold. I also think that s/he comes right from the factory with
standard equiptment of " realize(ing) at a young age that we are all
1, and love is the way to go", and that we as parents have an
obligation to not cover up this reality with delusional thinking, such
as seeking material/egotistical greatness instead of pointing to the
"kingdom of God within". Well, that's my 2 cents worth! I wish you
well.
Peace and blessings,
Bob