We date fossils by which rock layer they are found in.
But we date the rock layers by the fossils they contain.
So, whatsupwiththat?

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, sandeep
<sandeepc@b...> wrote:
>
> A river has a name, a character, a personality; it is even liked or
disliked as an entity.
>
> Facets of it's character like,....... its rapidity or sluggishness,
its breadth, depth, length, its form and course, its smoothness,
number of islands, and the vegetation and topographical character of
its immediate environment.
>
> And it flows;
>
> From whatever angle you may look, it is never the same for two
consecutive seconds. It is just passing water, each ripple, each drop,
resembling its predecessor and its successor but never the same ripple
or drop.
>
> There is no river.
>
> There is no man/woman

Dear Sandeep,
Thank you for sharing this and One<=>Everyone. They are beautiful mind
expanders/mind silencers, and worthy of joining the many gems of
wisdom that can be found on the Covenant site, which is one of the
best on the web... http://www.the-covenant.net/
Peace and blessings,
Bob

We date fossils by which rock layer they are found in.
But we date the rock layers by the fossils they contain.
So, whatsupwiththat?

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> We date fossils by which rock layer they are found in.
> But we date the rock layers by the fossils they contain.
> So, whatsupwiththat?

At my age fossils are the only people I appeal to.  I have been asked
what rock I crawled from under by these same fossils.  I may have to
go back to dating the rock layers.

Love
Bobby G.

I wasn't able to help in any way about this. Can you?
Bob
------------------------------------------------------------------
My name is L**** and i was wondering if you know anything about a lady
name Mariam Noor. She is Lebanese and practices meditation at a high
level. If you know who she is could you please tell me a way of
contacting her? Thank you

Hope to hear from you soon

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety <no_reply@y...> wrote:

We date fossils by which rock layer they are found in.
But we date the rock layers by the fossils they contain. So, whatsupwiththat?

At my age fossils are the only people I appeal to. I have been asked what rock I crawled from under by these same fossils. I may have to go back to dating the rock layers.
Love
Bobby G.

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, r vidhyasagar
<dr_vidhyasagar_54@y...> wrote:
> Gentle men,
>
> I am asking you a help,
> Please forward me some interesting site adresse to learn meditation
> Thanking you,
> R.Vidhyasagar
>
> dr_vidhyasagar_54@y...
>

Hello,

I suggest that you check our own web site, Meditation Station
http://www.meditationsociety.com
We have dozens of meditation techniques and concepts with easy to
follow "how to" directions. There is also a Links section that has
several excellent sites listed that may be beneficial for you. It is
the hardest Links grouping to become a part of, of any site dealing
with meditation. Our web master is very conservative about adding
links, and only the "best of the best" appear there. For instance,
none have been added this year, and only 2 were added last year. So,
it may be far easier to find what you seek there than on the link
lists that don't discriminate about who they list.

In any event, my suggestion is to check out the techniques on
Meditation Station, and actually try a few that you seem drawn to. I
feel that the best way to learn about meditation is by meditating. So,
don't do much shopping around, and spend most of your time actually
doing meditation. And as you may have already found out, this Yahoo
group can be a valuable resource if you have any questions or want to
share your experiences.

I wish you well.

Peace and blessings,
Bob Rose, President,
Meditation Society of America

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Morgen
<editor@j...> wrote:
>
I have been rocking lo these many years
Stoned and fossilized. Or is that philosophized?

Hello,

I highly recommend www.imicourses.com for meditation and courses on
meditation. I have read many of the books available on that site and
taken the courses, and they really work to inspire you and give a clear
understanding of the practice and eliminate misconceptions about
meditation. Check it out. Bob, you might want to add them to your list
of links. They really are good.

Namaste,
Jyoti Ma (Julie)

OK - Here's the email we just got. Any comments are welcomed:
Subject: Re: To Nina and All
From: dol <ubig0@...>

Original message:

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:

>> Recently, Nina mistook a post
>> from John (Newbreed) as being
>> from me. The way it was <snipped>
>> made it confusing, but...it
>> was not from me.
>>
>> I want to state publicly, on
>> this group - and probably somewhat
>> to Nina's discomfort - that I
>> consider Nina to be one of the
>> clearest thinkers, kindest and most
>> knowledgeable yogis, and sweetest
>> hearts on all of the Yahoo! groups
>> that I had been part of for the
>> past two years.
>>
>> Internet group retiree,
>>
>> Jeff
>> --
>>
>> Jeff Belyea
>>
>> http://www.suiteonedesign.com
>>
>> http://www.mindgoal.com


(nice free advertising here - should save the consumer at least
$1.00 off their payment fees)

___________________________

My response:
~*~  I'm honestly just wondering if any of you actually take the
time to really read and then think about the comments written. The
above is a case in point.
Now,  re read the info from posting # 12798  ...."when someone is
making judgements about someone else, this alone indicates that they
see themselves as separate from the rest of creation and red-flags
their not being enlightened."



  My response is:
~*~  I find this all very interesting....how ones' mind can
completely manipulate, and regurgatate the same stuff over and over,
and have it come out somehow looking new and different to them. Same
old, same old,  retold and retold.

  Spiritual blindness.
  Now,  if you decide to place a "judgement"  on a person in
perspective with the entire group,  and then make
a  "critical"  assessment of their personality, does that make it
o.k. and not a criticism because from your perspective it appears to
be  positive?  While from someone elses perspective (like mine) it
appears to be quite negative - certainly to everyone but Nina.
However,  if one makes a  "red flagged" judgement that another
person is not enlightened, then I guess that's o.k. Certainly a lot
of reading is going on here,  and I suggest by subsequent postings,
that's just about all that's done here.   [That by the way was a
critical assesment and judgement based on  perspective so as to make
forthcoming choices which will be pertinent to my experience.]

  This is all so baffling to the mind, no wonder you all are stuck on
this forum searching til hell won't have it- because certainly
heaven won't have any of it,  and that's why your all still
searching.  Let's just talk about this all until we're so blue in
the face,  and that of course will take up at least another 1
million years -  who said there isn't t.v. in eternity??? It's
called planet earth.
     (On the 3 times I've viewed the entries here on this board I see
your little brain cells that hold up the red flags are completely
unpredictable and not making any sort of common sense to me what's
so ever.) again... does anybody read and actually use the grey
matter to formualate the info??  Or are you all just so addicted to
the search that that's where you get stuck???

~*~  oh the mind does like to go on...and go on....and go on.....and
that's why your here playing this game. ...talkin 'bout mind games,
oh ya.    Who of your minds has gotten  satisfied,   yet did you
know,  if you stop running from the Truth   (no you are not seekers
nor are you even finders... you are runners) and your running so
fast from the truth to make the game a lot more fun -  then maybe
you'll slow down long enough to see the illusion behind the games,
and meet the Truth of it all.... . but then that would take all the
fun out of the game now wouldn't it.   You just can't quiet your
mind long enough to get any clear sense, because your addicted to
the game. Now,  I think everyone here would have much better success
if we all had a good b.b.q.  picnic,  a couple of beers, told some
jokes about it all and had a few really good belly laughs.....now
that's the True Buddha's meditation....now you have my permission to
write that all down,  pass it out and now charge  $80.00 an hour for
the facilitation and  delivery of it....  hmmmmmmm.......


Now,   having read past posts  from  the Medit8tion society
moderator  having ordained  Judy Rhodes as   "Shri"  Judy Rhodes,
is quite honestly something we could all have a good giggle about,
and again,  just shows how some people will follow anyone.   Because
her strong perspectives swing from the same pendulum as yours,
except she's disillusioned with it all, while you are still all
addicted to the illusion ,  she on the other hand is addicted to the
negative illusion aspect so is looking at it from a different
perspective, albeit no more healthier.  You don't see that she is
still playing the  game, only on the critical end of the pendulum.
And the pendulum swings back and forth and will hit you all in the
ass,  and that's what your all getting.    But, then again,  I'm
seeing that it doesn't take much for you to label a person
as  "shri" just anybodies words that you really don't understand
seems to fit the bill.  You'd all be much better off to forget about
this nonsense yet if you must meditate, meditate on   "the middle
path"  which quite possibly in 2 million years might shed some light
in the old grey matter....ya shri judi included.  And sorry to be
the one to tear down your needed illusions on "shri"  Judi, but she
is just as addicted to the game as you are, I repeat, just from the
other end of the pendulum.  Whereas your struggling to build up the
seeking game, and using this forum as one vehicle,  she's struggling
to tear it down, and using her forum as a vehicle....it's still a
game, and your all still playing......different teams, but your
still playing....
Are you having fun yet   ??????????????

get it?????  do you get it????  no not just reading it....but
getting it????


Just go walk away from the computer now and have yourself a good ole
belly laugh.   Why do you think the statues of the Buddha have him
portayed as  giving a good ole belly laugh !!!    I should know.

Subject: Re: Meditation Tip From Down Under
From: donna <ubig0@...

~*~  This one sounds like it could be fun for a great many people,
although I decided  not to choose it personally, based on the
decision that I don't see me enjoying that kind of problem.
But if you enjoy it, and are getting something from this sort of
life problem,  then by all means
explore....explore...explore....experience....experience...til there
ain't no more.  (to be said with a hip-hop rapper beat, because so
many of us enjoy that venue of music.)
Yes,  God / You / Me / We / Everybodeeeeeeee   has a  GREAT  sense
of humor.    ba da bum

  This meditation technique is a very serious business....unless of
course, it is not. Only you can choose that and decide that.

This is said with the greatest amount of respect,  as those who
suffer these problems are indeed suffering greatly. And the pain
fills the earth world-wide.   The pain is evident. The earth cries
with your pain.

No matter what technique you use,  it is evident that a greater
sense of perspective and humor is certainly required,  and that in
itself could instantly set the world to giggle, and create
spontaneous joy and clarity,   but then,  what about the
game....what about this suffering that everyone has taken to be
there God and Guru.

  Be conscious.  Be conscious of what your choosing.  Be conscious of
what it is creating.  Be conscious and alert and aware.  Be
conscious of what you want.  Be conscious of what you don't want.
Be conscious of what the thing  you want is creating....and of what
the thing you  don't want is creating/manifesting. Be conscious of
what your putting out there. Be conscious of your "role" in it.  Is
this what you want to experience in your experience???

Oh my dears,   all the kryas in the world and all the meditations in
the universe first started out with this little bit of  "wisdom".
And then comes all the massive over complications until the minds
are just swimming with over saturation.
(And then comes the backpeddaling to clean up things afterwards.)

Now,  having said that,   find the eternal laugh in it all.
Behind the pain and suffering remember, there is the laughter, and
behind the laughter -->  there is nothing at all.  So, you can
experience and choose the suffering/pain,  the laughter,  or nothing
at all.   Choices.  Your choices create.   Be aware of your
Choices.  Yet know,  that these are choices.   Can you see what your
choosing?
Do you get it?? or would your rather just carry on and play your
game weather your actually having fun or not.
Now dears,  I'll leave your forum.  I only stopped in to visit for
awhile, because I had to learn how to use this computer, so now I'm
determined to have some fun with it.

~*~         ~*~    no disrespect or harm intended here from my end.
Come in Peace,  Leave in Peace...... or not.... as so many have
chosen 'not'.


original message:

________________________________________
--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:

>> Claire, one of the Meditation Society of America's members from
>> Australia, has a technique that she shared with us recently that

comes

>> from her personal experience with ADD. She was taught long ago,

that

>> when she couldn't focus on a subject in school, to visualize

herself

>> using a lasso to throw at the object of her concentration and see

it

>> being hauled in, much as a cowboy/girl would do to a steer (she

really

>> saw this happen daily as a child, as she grew up on  cattle ranch).
>> She has found that Concentration has become much more under her
>> command by using this same methodology when sitting in Meditation.

She

>> reports that previously when trying to meditate, she would become
>> distracted, and lose focus on the object of her meditation within

one

>> or two minutes. Now that she has implimented her childhood ADD
>> technique, she hauls in her mind very quickly, and can easily

refocus

>> on her meditation, and now can stay with it for a very long time.

So,

>> maybe you don't learn everything you ever needed to know in
>> kindergarten, and some things from elementary school also will be

of

>> help:-) In any event, perhaps this method will be of benefit to

you,

>> and if so, great!

~*~   p.s.


Subject: Re: Uh, This Email Might Be About Something, Or Maybe Not
From: donna <abig0@...>

Fighting for Peace.

Websters Dictionary could list that as a definition of one of the
biggest oxymorons of all time. Right up there with "you gotta be
cruel to be kind."    hmmmmmmmmmmmm

Well, how's this thinking working for you, the world and it's
population of all species.  Is this the experience, product and
manifestation of dis-eased thinking and choices????   Is this what
your moderators  want to "shri" about?? Is your 'shri' making sense
to you???  Take the good (that which can serve your purpose whatever
that may be) and leave the rest,  but at least be conscious of it.
Be aware of it, and alert.   Be as wise as a fox and as innocent as
a dove.  But do be conscious and alert dear ones.

I'm not judging or criticizing here, other than using thinking
skills on which to base my choices/experiences. Hey, I'd be the
first one to vote Daffy Duck, the Road Runner Goofy as my  "shri
Daffy and Shri Goofy.  In all sincerity their  great.
It's ALL neither Good or Bad, it just  Is....along with consequences
of actions and choices that this all creates.   And create it does!!
Creating a world where your scared to go out on the streets and need
a military man just to hold things down.

Just reminding you again....
What are you choosing here???? Do you know what your choosing?
Confusion on all ends of this spectrum I see. (just a little verse
from "shri" yoda there.)  There is  benefit to be gained in it all,
[for a lack of better words,] though I seem to have no lack tonight -
  Amen,   although I just wanted to take the time to point some of
the obvious conflicts that can lead to more altered ego state,   and
isn't that what your "shri"  Judi is really trying to do from a very
emotional perspective and just the other pendulum swing??  And in
that sense it's good/fine/whatever, just pointing out a little
perspective to BE AWARE of here. I'm just offering a little help
along here ~ or not. That's up to you.  You Shri who you want to
shri, of course,  I'm just offering some perspective for those of
your readers who may need a little bit of broader insights to help
them make choices.
~*~         ~*~
ooops, and I said the other post would be my last post  haha


--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:

>> OK - Here's the email we just got. Any comments are welcomed:
>> Subject: Re: To Nina and All
>> From: dol <ubig0@h...>
>>
>> Original message:
>>
>> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,

medit8ionsociety

>> <no_reply@y...> wrote:
>>
>
>>>> >> Recently, Nina mistook a post
>>>> >> from John (Newbreed) as being
>>>> >> from me. The way it was <snipped>
>>>> >> made it confusing, but...it
>>>> >> was not from me.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I want to state publicly, on
>>>> >> this group - and probably somewhat
>>>> >> to Nina's discomfort - that I
>>>> >> consider Nina to be one of the
>>>> >> clearest thinkers, kindest and most
>>>> >> knowledgeable yogis, and sweetest
>>>> >> hearts on all of the Yahoo! groups
>>>> >> that I had been part of for the
>>>> >> past two years.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Internet group retiree,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Jeff
>>>> >> --
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Jeff Belyea
>>>> >>
>>>> >> http://www.suiteonedesign.com
>>>> >>
>>>> >> http://www.mindgoal.com
>
>>
>>
>> (nice free advertising here - should save the consumer at least
>> $1.00 off their payment fees)
>>
>> ___________________________
>>
>> My response:
>> ~*~  I'm honestly just wondering if any of you actually take the
>> time to really read and then think about the comments written. The
>> above is a case in point.
>> Now,  re read the info from posting # 12798  ...."when someone is
>> making judgements about someone else, this alone indicates that

they

>> see themselves as separate from the rest of creation and red-flags
>> their not being enlightened."
>>
>>
>>
>>  My response is:
>> ~*~  I find this all very interesting....how ones' mind can
>> completely manipulate, and regurgatate the same stuff over and

over,

>> and have it come out somehow looking new and different to them.

Same

>> old, same old,  retold and retold.
>>
>>  Spiritual blindness.
>>  Now,  if you decide to place a "judgement"  on a person in
>> perspective with the entire group,  and then make
>> a  "critical"  assessment of their personality, does that make it
>> o.k. and not a criticism because from your perspective it appears

to

>> be  positive?  While from someone elses perspective (like mine) it
>> appears to be quite negative - certainly to everyone but Nina.
>> However,  if one makes a  "red flagged" judgement that another
>> person is not enlightened, then I guess that's o.k. Certainly a

lot

>> of reading is going on here,  and I suggest by subsequent

postings,

>> that's just about all that's done here.   [That by the way was a
>> critical assesment and judgement based on  perspective so as to

make

>> forthcoming choices which will be pertinent to my experience.]
>>
>>  This is all so baffling to the mind, no wonder you all are stuck

on

>> this forum searching til hell won't have it- because certainly
>> heaven won't have any of it,  and that's why your all still
>> searching.  Let's just talk about this all until we're so blue in
>> the face,  and that of course will take up at least another 1
>> million years -  who said there isn't t.v. in eternity??? It's
>> called planet earth.
>>     (On the 3 times I've viewed the entries here on this board I

see

>> your little brain cells that hold up the red flags are completely
>> unpredictable and not making any sort of common sense to me what's
>> so ever.) again... does anybody read and actually use the grey
>> matter to formualate the info??  Or are you all just so addicted

to

>> the search that that's where you get stuck???
>>
>> ~*~  oh the mind does like to go on...and go on....and go

on.....and

>> that's why your here playing this game. ...talkin 'bout mind

games,

>> oh ya.    Who of your minds has gotten  satisfied,   yet did you
>> know,  if you stop running from the Truth   (no you are not

seekers

>> nor are you even finders... you are runners) and your running so
>> fast from the truth to make the game a lot more fun -  then maybe
>> you'll slow down long enough to see the illusion behind the games,
>> and meet the Truth of it all.... . but then that would take all

the

>> fun out of the game now wouldn't it.   You just can't quiet your
>> mind long enough to get any clear sense, because your addicted to
>> the game. Now,  I think everyone here would have much better

success

>> if we all had a good b.b.q.  picnic,  a couple of beers, told some
>> jokes about it all and had a few really good belly laughs.....now
>> that's the True Buddha's meditation....now you have my permission

to

>> write that all down,  pass it out and now charge  $80.00 an hour

for

>> the facilitation and  delivery of it....  hmmmmmmm.......
>>
>>
>> Now,   having read past posts  from  the Medit8tion society
>> moderator  having ordained  Judy Rhodes as   "Shri"  Judy Rhodes,
>> is quite honestly something we could all have a good giggle

about,

>> and again,  just shows how some people will follow anyone.

Because

>> her strong perspectives swing from the same pendulum as yours,
>> except she's disillusioned with it all, while you are still all
>> addicted to the illusion ,  she on the other hand is addicted to

the

>> negative illusion aspect so is looking at it from a different
>> perspective, albeit no more healthier.  You don't see that she is
>> still playing the  game, only on the critical end of the pendulum.
>> And the pendulum swings back and forth and will hit you all in the
>> ass,  and that's what your all getting.    But, then again,  I'm
>> seeing that it doesn't take much for you to label a person
>> as  "shri" just anybodies words that you really don't understand
>> seems to fit the bill.  You'd all be much better off to forget

about

>> this nonsense yet if you must meditate, meditate on   "the middle
>> path"  which quite possibly in 2 million years might shed some

light

>> in the old grey matter....ya shri judi included.  And sorry to be
>> the one to tear down your needed illusions on "shri"  Judi, but

she

>> is just as addicted to the game as you are, I repeat, just from

the

>> other end of the pendulum.  Whereas your struggling to build up

the

>> seeking game, and using this forum as one vehicle,  she's

struggling

>> to tear it down, and using her forum as a vehicle....it's still a
>> game, and your all still playing......different teams, but your
>> still playing....
>> Are you having fun yet   ??????????????
>>
>> get it?????  do you get it????  no not just reading it....but
>> getting it????
>>
>>
>> Just go walk away from the computer now and have yourself a good

ole

>> belly laugh.   Why do you think the statues of the Buddha have him
>> portayed as  giving a good ole belly laugh !!!    I should know.

Once the Mulla was invited to dinner by a group of scholars. When he
arrived, he found the other guests in a heated debate concerning
destiny vs. free will.

As time went by and the argument seemed endless, the Mulla was getting
hungrier by the minute; The aroma from the kitchen became unbearable.

Nasrudin stood up and said "If I prove beyond a shadow of doubt that
man is predestined, can we then begin our dinner?"

At this, the rest fell silent.

The Mulla then said "I can say, with absolute certainty, that every
man present here today is predestined to die."

Dinner was promptly served.

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:


*****Yes, life is a fatal "disease."

Sometimes I ask my students "What is a sexually-transmitted
condition, with a 100% fatality rate?"  Prior to the last few years,
most responded with an  answer of "AIDS," but since the cocktails
seem to be indefinitely prolonging AIDS victims' lives (for those
that have the money or insurance to afford them; the biggest group,
in Africa, clearly don't).  That answer doesn't work  too  well any
longer.



Once the Mulla was invited to dinner by a group of scholars. When he
arrived, he found the other guests in a heated debate concerning
destiny vs. free will.

As time went by and the argument seemed endless, the Mulla was getting
hungrier by the minute; The aroma from the kitchen became unbearable.

Nasrudin stood up and said "If I prove beyond a shadow of doubt that
man is predestined, can we then begin our dinner?"


*****What about woman?  Does she escape  predestination? :-))))

At this, the rest fell silent.

The Mulla then said "I can say, with absolute certainty, that every
man present here today is predestined to die."

Dinner was promptly served.


*****Ahhh but was it enjoyed post the message? :-)))
Take it from one who is currently "on the edge," all this babbling
about meditation, spirituality, awakening, etc. is all cerebral (and
will get you just so far) until one comes face-to-face (in a foxhole,
a burning building, a cancer ward) with the thought and direct
experience of mortality.  *That's* where the rubber meets the road!

~andy (back for a brief visit)

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, r vidhyasagar
<dr_vidhyasagar_54@y...> wrote:


*****with no mean spiritedness intended, this reminds me of the
person who makes a phone call to a local confectionary shop and asks
the proprietor where he can find a store that sells candy.

~ andy

> Gentle men,
>
> I am asking you a help,
> Please forward me some interesting site adresse to learn meditation
> Thanking you,
> R.Vidhyasagar
>
> dr_vidhyasagar_54@y...
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway - Enter today

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Andy"
<endofthedream@y...> wrote:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
> <no_reply@y...> wrote:
>
>
> *****Yes, life is a fatal "disease."
>
> Sometimes I ask my students "What is a sexually-transmitted
> condition, with a 100% fatality rate?"  Prior to the last few
years,
> most responded with an  answer of "AIDS," but since the cocktails
> seem to be indefinitely prolonging AIDS victims' lives (for those
> that have the money or insurance to afford them; the biggest
group,
> in Africa, clearly don't).  That answer doesn't work  too  well any
> longer.
>
>
>
> Once the Mulla was invited to dinner by a group of scholars. When he
> arrived, he found the other guests in a heated debate concerning
> destiny vs. free will.
>
> As time went by and the argument seemed endless, the Mulla was
getting
> hungrier by the minute; The aroma from the kitchen became
unbearable.
>
> Nasrudin stood up and said "If I prove beyond a shadow of doubt that
> man is predestined, can we then begin our dinner?"
>
>
> *****What about woman?  Does she escape  predestination? :-))))
>
> At this, the rest fell silent.
>
> The Mulla then said "I can say, with absolute certainty, that every
> man present here today is predestined to die."
>
> Dinner was promptly served.
>
>
> *****Ahhh but was it enjoyed post the message? :-)))
> Take it from one who is currently "on the edge," all this babbling
> about meditation, spirituality, awakening, etc. is all cerebral
(and
> will get you just so far) until one comes face-to-face (in a
foxhole,
> a burning building, a cancer ward) with the thought and direct
> experience of mortality.  *That's* where the rubber meets the road!
>
> ~andy (back for a brief visit)

Yo Andy,

Good to hear/read from you. From Sandeep's post and from your words,
I'm going to assume that you are now taking the masters level "Facts
of Life 101" course, as well as sharing your right on the spiritual
money wisdom with your students.

One thing I see that has come to my mind from this is the rabbit in
Alice in Wonderland (I think he was the one), who would say, while
scurrying around to keep such important appointments as the tea party
with the mad hatter, "So much to do, and so little time". Way too
busy to realize that it's actually "So much time, and nothing to do".

And like Nasrudin in this tale, trying to awaken "scholars" to the
opportunity to live their life while they have it to live, I also
think of Gurdjieff, who at the end of his 1200+ page masterwork, All
and Everything, sums it all up by commenting, that the most
astonishing thing about humans is that they have no conception of, or
appreciation for the fact that they are mortal.

And yes, as you point to, "on the edge" events can certainly be eye
openers, and potentially end the "They have eyes but don't see"
syndrome. But, my oh my, they can be quite a trip! So as we go
through the inevitable rocks and rolls on our journey, it becomes a
real joy to bump into uplifting words, concepts, and things, and I
certainly consider what you share as such, so I hope your visit here
will not be just a brief one. And of course, I hope you are well and
feeling swell.

Peace and blessings,
Bob

From the MedicalNewsToday site

Transcendental meditation lowers blood pressure in black adolescents
03 Apr 2004

Black adolescents at risk to be hypertensive adults can lower their
blood pressure through daily transcendental meditation, according to
research published in the April issue of the American Journal of
Hypertension.

A study of 156 inner-city black adolescents in Augusta, Ga., with
high-normal pressure showed that teens who practiced 15 minutes of
transcendental meditation twice daily steadily lowered their daytime
blood pressures over four months and that their pressures tended to
stay lower, according to Dr. Vernon A. Barnes, physiologist at the
Medical College of Georgia and principal author of the paper.

"Allowing your mind to go to that state of inner quietness and be
there for a time has an effect on the physiology by reducing stress
hormone levels like cortisol and reducing activation of the
sympathetic nervous system which controls the fight-or-flight
response," says Dr. Barnes. "In a short time, we can teach this
standardized meditation method that has been taught all over the world
for 50 years. That technique can then be used throughout a lifetime
without side effects or additional expense."

Adolescents in the study who practiced transcendental meditation
experienced an average 3.5 millimeter drop in their systolic pressure,
the top number that indicates the pressure inside blood vessels that
the heart is pumping against, and a 3.4 millimeter decrease in
diastolic pressure, the bottom number that indicates pressure while
the heart is at rest.

Participants in health education classes, who served as the control
groups, experienced no significant change. Heart rate, probably one of
the simplest measures of stress level reduction, also dropped in
meditating students and remained consistent in the control groups, Dr.
Barnes says.

"Even if your blood pressure comes down a few millimeters when you are
young, if you can maintain that into adulthood, you can significantly
reduce your risk for cardiovascular disease," he says.

High blood pressure affects one in four adults in the U.S. and is a
major risk factor for heart attack and stroke, the first and third
leading causes of death, respectively, according to the National
Center for Health Statistics and the Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention. "This is not a problem that occurs suddenly at age 45 or
50," Dr. Barnes says. "High blood pressure starts at a young age and
it seems it's starting at a younger age than we have previously
thought. So we wanted to look at intervention with young people,
specifically young African-Americans who likely will have the most
severe problems with hypertension when they grow up."

Dr. Barnes first identified students with high-normal pressure based
on three consecutive screenings in the Richmond County, Ga., school
system, then randomly assigned them to the transcendental meditation
program or a 15-minute health education program based on National
Institutes of Health guidelines that included no intervention.

The transcendental meditation group meditated for 15 minutes twice
daily – once at school and once at home – and twice daily at home
during the weekend. To ensure an accurate measure of blood pressure as
the adolescents went about their lives, both groups wore 24-hour
monitoring devices to check their blood pressure every 20 minutes from
6 a.m. to 11 p.m. and every 30 minutes from 11 p.m. to 6 a.m.
Researchers also looked at parameters such as body mass index, weight,
body surface area and environmental stress so that other changes that
might affect blood pressure would be noted.

"Once the program stopped, we had a follow-up at four months and their
blood pressures were still down," Dr. Barnes says, but long-term
studies are needed to see the impact of reduced pressure on disease
development.

He noted that underlying physiologic pathways that enable meditation
to lower blood pressure are unclear and also need further study.
However, the practice that transcends thought has been shown to reduce
sympathetic nervous system response and stress hormone levels which
ultimately reduces the workload on the heart. "These events may result
in improved myocardial and vascular function, leading to decreased
(blood pressure) levels, thereby helping to prevent early onset of
hypertension," he and his colleagues at MCG's Georgia Prevention
Institute write.

He says that the health benefits of transcendental meditation are
becoming more accepted in the medical community as these types of
studies document its impact on the body and mind. The willingness of
the teens to practice meditation is evidence, although perhaps less
traditional documentation, of its benefits as well. "How do you get a
teen-ager to sit for 15 minutes with his eyes closed twice a day every
day for a long period of time? How can you possibly accomplish that?"
he asks rhetorically.

The technique, which enables the most settled, relaxed state of mind,
is an easy sell once people practice it, says Dr. Barnes, who has used
the technique since 1972 and taught it since 1974. "Anyone can
meditate and anyone can benefit. You don't have to be under a huge
load of stress and you don't have to be hypertensive. There are many
benefits in terms of developing your own potential," he says, equating
the experience to a mental bath that washes away the stress of the day.

--------------------------

Dr. Barnes' research was supported by funding from the National Heart,
Lung and Blood Institute and an American Heart Association Scientist
Development Grant. He also acknowledged the support of the Richmond
County School System in helping make the research possible.

Contact: Toni Baker
tbaker@...
706-721-4421
Medical College of Georgia
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--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Andy"
> <endofthedream@y...> wrote:
> > --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com,
medit8ionsociety


Yo Andy,

Good to hear/read from you. From Sandeep's post and from your words,
I'm going to assume that you are now taking the masters level "Facts
of Life 101" course, as well as sharing your right on the spiritual
money wisdom with your students.


*****No, I'm not teaching this semester.  Dealing with a particularly
stubbon bout of recurrent cancer, one that requires a more aggressive
treatment (stem-cell transplant, a 4 week hospital stay, and more fun
than you can shake a stick at! Hahaha!!!).  But yes, when I do return
to work later this fall (hopefully with some hair intact!), I do plan
on starting up the spiritual inquiry/meditation group that we talked
about last fall.


One thing I see that has come to my mind from this is the rabbit in
Alice in Wonderland (I think he was the one), who would say, while
scurrying around to keep such important appointments as the tea party
with the mad hatter, "So much to do, and so little time". Way too
busy to realize that it's actually "So much time, and nothing to do".


*****Yes, there is nothing to do, and yet things apparently get
done.  In the matter of time, three words: it is not. ;-)



And like Nasrudin in this tale, trying to awaken "scholars" to the
opportunity to live their life while they have it to live, I also
think of Gurdjieff, who at the end of his 1200+ page masterwork, All
and Everything, sums it all up by commenting, that the most
astonishing thing about humans is that they have no conception of, or
appreciation for the fact that they are mortal.


*****Until such appreciation manifests itself in their lives.  Either
at the moment of the body's cessation or, perhaps, earlier, in a
cancer ward.  Either way, it's a grand trip! :-)))))


And yes, as you point to, "on the edge" events can certainly be eye
openers, and potentially end the "They have eyes but don't see"
syndrome. But, my oh my, they can be quite a trip! So as we go
through the inevitable rocks and rolls on our journey, it becomes a
real joy to bump into uplifting words, concepts, and things, and I
certainly consider what you share as such, so I hope your visit here
will not be just a brief one. And of course, I hope you are well and
feeling swell.


*****Remember from the original Star Trek, the Vulcan IDIC? Infinite
Divisity in Infinite Combination.  So are all the uplifting words,
concepts, and things.  What moves Andy, bores Bob, upsets Joan, and
enrages Father Marshall.

Thought tells us that to be "safe," we each much think and believe
alike.  I don't know if it is possible, but in the course of human
history, it hasn't happened ever.  It takes something more to
transcend this drive for safety, some sense of security in what is
perceived not through thought but beyond thought.  And sometimes
meditation is a useful tool to provoke such seeing.  But it is not
essential.  Nothing is.  As the late, great runner-philosopher-
cardiologist George Sheehan repeatedly wrote, "We must all be an
experiment of one."

Peace and blessings,
Bob

*****Thank you.  Hugs!

Michael Rhodes is back safe and sound from serving in Iraq. Whatever
anyone feels about war, or this war specifically, it is a time to
celebrate and give thanks for his heroic actions and bravery, that
were motivated by a desire to protect our freedom and safety. Thank
you Michael. We owe you big time!

Peace and blessings,
Bob

Dear Medit8,

When I meditate for half an hour a day for several days, my digestive
system, which is normally strong, becomes upset, & I don't digest
foods well & even get diarrhoea, I also feel somewhat spacy. When I
stop meditating all symptoms return to normal within several days.

  What is the cause of this effect & what is the solution to it. I do
want to meditate because of its great benefits, but these symptoms are
holding me back.

Looking forward to your reply,

Best Wishes,
M*** E***

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:

Michael Rhodes is back safe and sound from serving in Iraq. Whatever
anyone feels about war, or this war specifically, it is a time to
celebrate and give thanks for his heroic actions and bravery, that
were motivated by a desire to protect our freedom and safety. Thank
you Michael. We owe you big time!


*****Irrespective of the war, I am always happy when someone
(American or otherwise) ~ who is not a terrorist ~ returns home safe
and sound.

I know,  I know, war happens.
It is a expression of phenomenality.
As some have said, it spices the pot, makes The Grand Game
interesting.

Personally, I find it unpleasant, distasteful.  It seems such a waste
to me, such a poor allocation of energy, emotion, and resources.
($45,000,000 for one high-tech jet fighter plane.  Couldn't that
money be put to more beneficial use that a machine whose sole purpose
is killing and destruction?)

And yet war/anger/hostility has been with us since we have been with
us in a phenomenal sense.

Still, it doesn't mean I have to like it.  I just don't see how
killing people, making war (even in defense) leads to any genuine
peace.  Stopping the "war" inside ourselves, each of us, if so
inclined, might, perhaps, produce a global difference.  Or not.  I
don't  know.  I haven't the slightest idea.  But if provoked by who-
knows-watt, I will do it "on" myself. :-))

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Dear Medit8,
>
> When I meditate for half an hour a
> day for several days, my digestive
> system, which is normally strong,
> becomes upset, & I don't digest
> foods well & even get diarrhoea,
> I also feel somewhat spacy. When I
> stop meditating all symptoms return
> to normal within several days.
>
>  What is the cause of this effect & what is the solution to it. I do
> want to meditate because of its great benefits, but these symptoms
> are holding me back.
>
> Looking forward to your reply,
>
> Best Wishes,
> M*** E***

:) It seems, you have already determined the
answer to your question.

A friend's father is a doctor. He always laughs
in recounting instances of patients coming to him
with stories such as "when I do this, this hurts!
what do I do, doc?!"... what can he say, except:

"Don't do that!"

Anyhoo, anything any of us would say on this
message board would be based on assumption,
as all we know is that it has to do with
meditation for half an hour a day for several
days. We do not know what kind of meditation,
how you are breathing, or how you are sitting.

Nina

--- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, "Nina"
<murrkis@y...> wrote:
> --- In meditationsocietyofamerica@yahoogroups.com, medit8ionsociety
> <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > Dear Medit8,
> >
> > When I meditate for half an hour a
> > day for several days, my digestive
> > system, which is normally strong,
> > becomes upset, & I don't digest
> > foods well & even get diarrhoea,
> > I also feel somewhat spacy. When I
> > stop meditating all symptoms return
> > to normal within several days.
> >
> >  What is the cause of this effect & what is the solution to it. I do
> > want to meditate because of its great benefits, but these symptoms
> > are holding me back.
> >
> > Looking forward to your reply,
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> > M*** E***
>
> :) It seems, you have already determined the
> answer to your question.
>
> A friend's father is a doctor. He always laughs
> in recounting instances of patients coming to him
> with stories such as "when I do this, this hurts!
> what do I do, doc?!"... what can he say, except:
>
> "Don't do that!"
>
> Anyhoo, anything any of us would say on this
> message board would be based on assumption,
> as all we know is that it has to do with
> meditation for half an hour a day for several
> days. We do not know what kind of meditation,
> how you are breathing, or how you are sitting.
>
> Nina

As usual, another fine sharing by Nina. Thank you. Below is some of
how I answered M***, and I think perhaps it offers another perspective
that points to a universal "problem" with or without meditation being
involved. I hope by posting this it may be of benefit.........

Dear M***,
Whenever I am asked about physical problems, I always direct the
person asking to check with their physician, and will do so with you
now. But, I must say that I have never run into digestive or
elimination problems linked to meditation before. I imagine that with
some physical activities, it would be possible to upset these bodily
systems, but just sitting in meditation would seem to not be a
plausible predecessor to these bodily ailments. I suspect that what is
going on is that your mind is using your body as a distraction, so as
to maintain its master position over you. When we meditate, we get our
mind under control, and the mind always wants to lead us around, and
fights this change in status. Feeling "spacey" is another distraction
that the mind uses to break the concentration of the meditator.
Persevere. Silently witness your minds changes without judgments,
comparisons, or commentary. The part of you that is the Witness of the
minds fluctuations, the body's changes, and your emotional swings is
the "Real you". And the more you sit in the Witness position, the less
you will be disturbed by your mind, and soon it will become a fine
tool for you to use, and loosen its grip on you. You will be able to
act as you wish, and live your life as it takes place, and not just
live exclusively in reaction to your mind's changes.
  snip
Peace and blessings,
Bob

A friend was laughing about the Ramana and Papaji parrots, and how
they looked so foolish to her as they mimiced the style and content
of the real masters. She then used this tale to illustrate her point.
Enjoy!

Nasrudin was out in his neighbor's field one dark night. He was
creeping around collecting melons and putting them in a bag. The
neighbor came out with a lantern and saw Nasrudin. Of course he
accused the Mullah of stealing his melons, but Nasrudin solemnly
answered, "Oh no. I'm just keeping the wind from blowing them away."

celebrating and remebering
my Sikh years of the eighties

http://www.sikhnet.com/s/Baisakhi2004LA

The Sikh Holyday of Rebirth and
  Rejuvination and
Celebration of Sound and Meditation

-yesterday the White Tantra Day of Yogi Bhajan was offered
for World Peace

http://www.whitetantricyogala.com/


  Har        The One

  Haray      The projected One

  Haree      The Merged One

  Wahe Guru  The Ecstasy of God

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  "Pavan Par Paraa Pavan Guru

  Pavan Guru Wahe Guru

  Wahe Guru Pavan Guru"

  "May the Life Force be with You"

  (Who ever receives this mantra becomes
   absolutely Divine - God in Action)

     SAT NAM

and Happy Eastern!

     love, Karta

We can with certainty say these
things about God:
He knows;
He wills;
He speaks;
And he hears.

ibn Sina (980-1037) Arabia