Marcellus wrote:
>
> Have you searched on www.etsy.com?
>   
> http://www.etsy.com/listing/74553149/beautiful-cherub-seraphim-angle-child?ref=sr_gallery_3&sref=&ga_includes%5B0%5D=tags&ga_search_query=cherub+carve&ga_ref=related&ga_page=1&ga_search_type=all&ga_facet=

That's exactly what I wanted, except that it's twice as big as I need it
to be. But thanks for the link.

I've seen enough of these little carved faces on various types of
furniture, and figured that they had to be mass-produced somewhere.  And
I figured that this would be the place to ask.

Johann von Drachenfels
West Kingdom
 
   

Thanks.  I built a pell for whacking with my sword, and put an old 'propane gas
tank' helm on it for a head.  Every once in a while when I see it out of the
corner of my eye in the garage, I jump.

--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, powell.sean@... wrote:
>
>
>
> Here is the one I built. Not as beautiful but definetly complex. :) Spooked me
a couple of times walking through the shop in semi-dark conditions. It was a
gift for my knight.
>
>
>
>
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t239/Eliz-Rivenstar/Seans%20Shop/Woodworking%\
20Projects/?action=view¤t=P1010555.jpg
>
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t239/Eliz-Rivenstar/Seans%20Shop/Woodworking%\
20Projects/?action=view¤t=P1010551.jpg
>
>
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t239/Eliz-Rivenstar/Seans%20Shop/Woodworking%\
20Projects/?action=view¤t=P1010549.jpg
>
>
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t239/Eliz-Rivenstar/Seans%20Shop/Woodworking%\
20Projects/?action=view¤t=P1010553.jpg
>
>
>
>
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t239/Eliz-Rivenstar/Seans%20Shop/Woodworking%\
20Projects/?action=view¤t=P1010557.jpg
>
>
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t239/Eliz-Rivenstar/Seans%20Shop/Woodworking%\
20Projects/?action=view¤t=P1010558.jpg
>
>
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t239/Eliz-Rivenstar/Seans%20Shop/Woodworking%\
20Projects/?action=view¤t=P1010559.jpg
>
>
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t239/Eliz-Rivenstar/Seans%20Shop/Woodworking%\
20Projects/?action=view¤t=P1010560.jpg
>
>
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t239/Eliz-Rivenstar/Seans%20Shop/Woodworking%\
20Projects/?action=view¤t=P1010561.jpg
>
>
> Sean
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "buck_shomo" <ecshomo@...>
> To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 1:27:55 PM
> Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Armor holder
>
> Thanks to you both.  The latter is beautiful, but more work than I have time
for right now.  Maybe in the future...
>
> --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "original_invariance"
<original_invariance@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I made this stand: http://www.yeoldegaffers.com/project_deluxe_stand.asp  
 with a few alterations.  
> >
> > This stand is more stable with two legs, and to hold my sword, I made an
attachment between the legs at the back on the bottom.  I like this one because
it holds everything and it's very nice looking.
> >
> >
> > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "buck_shomo" <ecshomo@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone have any ideas, links or photos of one of an armor holder, one
that will hold my helm, sword as well as leg armor, etc?
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>

After having looked at all the photos, it's obvious that you have both superior
skills and a heck of a lot nicer workshop than I do.  Fantastic stuff.  I
learned my basic shop skills working for a friend who had an industrial design
shop in Detroit.  I miss things like a large table saw, band saw, and drill
press.  But even with those tools at my disposal, I work at a much more
primitive level than you.  And I can totally see how your mannequin could
startle you- it's more articulated than some people I know.

--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, powell.sean@... wrote:
>
>
>
> Here is the one I built. Not as beautiful but definetly complex. :) Spooked me
a couple of times walking through the shop in semi-dark conditions. It was a
gift for my knight.
>
>
>
>
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t239/Eliz-Rivenstar/Seans%20Shop/Woodworking%\
20Projects/?action=view¤t=P1010555.jpg
>
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t239/Eliz-Rivenstar/Seans%20Shop/Woodworking%\
20Projects/?action=view¤t=P1010551.jpg
>
>
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t239/Eliz-Rivenstar/Seans%20Shop/Woodworking%\
20Projects/?action=view¤t=P1010549.jpg
>
>
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t239/Eliz-Rivenstar/Seans%20Shop/Woodworking%\
20Projects/?action=view¤t=P1010553.jpg
>
>
>
>
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t239/Eliz-Rivenstar/Seans%20Shop/Woodworking%\
20Projects/?action=view¤t=P1010557.jpg
>
>
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t239/Eliz-Rivenstar/Seans%20Shop/Woodworking%\
20Projects/?action=view¤t=P1010558.jpg
>
>
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t239/Eliz-Rivenstar/Seans%20Shop/Woodworking%\
20Projects/?action=view¤t=P1010559.jpg
>
>
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t239/Eliz-Rivenstar/Seans%20Shop/Woodworking%\
20Projects/?action=view¤t=P1010560.jpg
>
>
http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t239/Eliz-Rivenstar/Seans%20Shop/Woodworking%\
20Projects/?action=view¤t=P1010561.jpg
>
>
> Sean
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From: "buck_shomo" <ecshomo@...>
> To: medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2012 1:27:55 PM
> Subject: [MedievalSawdust] Re: Armor holder
>
> Thanks to you both.  The latter is beautiful, but more work than I have time
for right now.  Maybe in the future...
>
> --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "original_invariance"
<original_invariance@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I made this stand: http://www.yeoldegaffers.com/project_deluxe_stand.asp  
 with a few alterations.  
> >
> > This stand is more stable with two legs, and to hold my sword, I made an
attachment between the legs at the back on the bottom.  I like this one because
it holds everything and it's very nice looking.
> >
> >
> > --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "buck_shomo" <ecshomo@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Does anyone have any ideas, links or photos of one of an armor holder, one
that will hold my helm, sword as well as leg armor, etc?
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>

This turned up on another list I'm on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4746vgMS-w

It's about timber-frame construction and log cabin building the old Norse way.
It's in Norwegian and 46 minutes long, but I found it worth a look.

Devin

"The mass of Men lead lives of quiet desperation because some fool poet has
borrowed their tools." R. Underhill (para.)

Thanks.  Watched most of it and am in great envy of the skill levels of the
craftsmen.  As a tangent, have you ever seen the PBS documentary about the guy
who retired to Alaska in the late '50s (maybe mid-'60s) and filmed himself
building a log cabin.  Kind of fascinating.

--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, barondevin@... wrote:
>
>
> This turned up on another list I'm on:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4746vgMS-w
>
> It's about timber-frame construction and log cabin building the old Norse way.
It's in Norwegian and 46 minutes long, but I found it worth a look.
>
> Devin
>
> "The mass of Men lead lives of quiet desperation because some fool poet has
borrowed their tools." R. Underhill (para.)
>

www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0486433943/ref=nosim/kkorg-20

Looks good. Haven't read it yet.

Birdhouses?

--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Scot Eddy <mister_eddy2003@...> wrote:
>
> The title pretty much says it all. I have smallish pieces about the size of a
sheet of paper (a few are long and narrow).
>
> What can I do with them? I hate to waste it, but the drive to throw junk away
is pretty strong. Any ideas?
>
> Grace and Peace,
>
> Scot
>

> Lucien
> ...we can burn that river when we cross a bridge over a bush with two birds in
glass houses.

That bridge is in Cleveland, right?

Greetings Scot,

How about:
* push/pull hooks for oven racks
* small hinged cover lap desks for scribes
* wooden lantern frames
* painted shields for kids play or heraldic display

Masahide

On 3/20/2012 8:01 AM, medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> 1a. What todo with 3/4 plywood scrap?
>      Posted by: "Scot Eddy" mister_eddy2003@... mister_eddy2003
>      Date: Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:36 pm ((PDT))
>
> The title pretty much says it all. I have smallish pieces about the size of a
sheet of paper (a few are long and narrow).
>
> What can I do with them? I hate to waste it, but the drive to throw junk away
is pretty strong. Any ideas?
>
> Grace and Peace,
>
> Scot
>

On 03/18/2012 10:35 AM, Broom wrote:
> www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0486433943/ref=nosim/kkorg-20
>
> Looks good. Haven't read it yet.

A Reverence for Wood

Picked it up many years ago, I like it.

It's not any kind of a how-to or pattern book, it's more of a passing
glance into various ideosyncracies of early american
woodworking/carpentry/construction. But the writing is good, an
enjoyable light reading of non-fiction.

I have two of his other books, A Museum of Early American Tools and
Our Vanishing Landscape. Same writing style, and enjoyable, IMO.

Michael Sheldon

I keep pieces like that in a box near my workbench. They get used for
all kinds of things:

small projects
shims, reenforcements, etc
jigs, set-up spacers, etc
throw-away buffers/protectors (placed under pieces I'm drilling/cutting,
etc)

Michael Sheldon


On 03/19/2012 11:36 PM, Scot Eddy wrote:
>
>
> The title pretty much says it all. I have smallish pieces about the size
> of a sheet of paper (a few are long and narrow).
>
> What can I do with them? I hate to waste it, but the drive to throw junk
> away is pretty strong. Any ideas?
>
> Grace and Peace,
>
> Scot
>
>
>

Do you need any jigs for particular projects?  3/4 is stiff enough, and
those pieces are a size that often goes into such things.  Band saws and
table saws can use a lot of those for tenoning and other special cuts, and
routers need a ton of jigs.

Even hand tool workers have uses for them.  Pieces that size would make
bench hooks (Screw/glue a block to the top side of one end and the bottom
side of the other end.  Hook a block over your bench and one or two bench
hooks can support a board for handsawing, chiseling, etc. and keep your
tools from cutting into the bench.)

Glue up two or three into a stack and bore holes to organize drill bits,
chisels, carving tools, etc.  Cut them in half the long way and mount on
wall brackets for tool racks.

I just used a piece of 3/4 as a base for laminating some bulletwood
scraps; now I'm carving a hollow in the bulletwood for dishing out blades
for fireplace shovels.

> A Reverence for Wood
>
> Picked it up many years ago, I like it.
>
> It's not any kind of a how-to or pattern book, it's more of a passing
> glance into various ideosyncracies of early american
> woodworking/carpentry/construction. But the writing is good, an
> enjoyable light reading of non-fiction.
>
> I have two of his other books, A Museum of Early American Tools and
> Our Vanishing Landscape. Same writing style, and enjoyable, IMO.

I like his _Museum of Early American Tools_ and his _Diary of an Early
American Boy_ the best.  His history isn't always right--he sometimes
talks about something medieval (or older!) as if it had been invented in
the American colonies--but he's a good illustrator and storyteller with a
real sense of his period, basically the 18th Century.

_Diary of an Early American Boy_ happened because he found one.  In 1805,
Noah Blake got a blank book from his parents for his 15th birthday.
Sloane found that book a century and a half later, and published it.  Noah
wasn't a wordy guy; Sloane takes one of Noah's sentences about his daily
work and expands it into a page or two explaining what that work, or
situation, was like for a pioneer family, and illustrating it with his
nice sketches. And Noah's family was one of those inventive and
hardworking families that gave New England its reputation--this farm that
was chopped out of the woods less than twenty years before now has a
house, barn and several fields, and in the year of the diary they replace
a bridge over their creek and build a water powered sawmill with a powered
forge shop on the side.

Along with the book, he found an inkwell with Noah's initials, and an
ingenious protractor-level, which I made a copy of.  It works well!  It's
a fun book, and someone really should do ones like it for various medieval
countries and periods.  Hmmmm.....

So now I find that Roy Underhill has built not one but two spring-pole lathes
with an under-slung, short pole and a walking beam.  Both are based on 18th
century references, as far as I can tell. The one in "The Woodwright's Eclectic
Workshop" comes from "L'Art du Torneur Mecanecien" by M. Hulot (1775).

Following up on questions folks asked at Gulf Wars, I'm trying to find out when
this type of lathe first appeared.  Unfortunately, all the references I've found
so far make these huge broad jumps - "Earliest lathes found on Egyptian
walls...Spring pole lathes appear about the 10th century...treadle lathes
following deVinci's drawing in the 15th century.

Any ideas on other sources I should pursue?  I've found "The history of the
lathe to 1850" by Woodbury, and "Technology in the Ancient World" by Knopf.

Bayard

References on period lathes tend to be a little thin. Besides Da Vinci's
illustrations, which as I recall are spring-pole and great-wheel lathes. There
is a photo of a wood cut from the late 1400's of a great-wheel lathe, with
offset cogs, doing offset or drunken turning, I saw this (I think) on the
Ornamental Turners web-site.

We know that there was both reciprocal rotation (spring-pole and bow) and
continuous rotation (great wheel and treadle) lathes, in use, in various places
"in period".

Robin Wood's books "Wooden Bowl" contains examples of period and post-period
turning. For lathe examples, only has his lathe, which is a spring-pole lathe
based on examples from the late 1800 and early 1900's.

Then there is the question of tools, I would say the majority opinion is that
today's gouges (roughing, spindle, bowl) and chisels (skew, etc) are not
"period", or at best late period. Hooks chisels where probably the major tool..

There are some photos of Robin's home-made chisels in his book.

Ralg
AnTir

Greetings,

"The Book of Trades (Das Standebuch)"  by Hans Sachs, published in 1568
shows several woodcuts with lathes in them. One for the turner, one for
the pewterer, and I think there is another one too. I haven't looked
really closely at the types, but I think they are all spring pole. In
any case, it might be worth your time.

V&A has a digital version with translations online:
http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/articles/t/the-book-of-trades-das-standebuch/
You can buy a print version from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Book-Trades-Standebuch-Hans-Sachs/dp/048622886X/ref=sr_1_1\
?ie=UTF8&qid=1332605102&sr=8-1

And you can find most of the images as high res scans on Wikipedia.

Hope this helps.

Masahide

On 3/24/2012 7:15 AM, medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> 1a. Period lathe references?
>      Posted by: "Ron" williams@... bayard_turner
>      Date: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:12 pm ((PDT))
>
> So now I find that Roy Underhill has built not one but two spring-pole lathes
with an under-slung, short pole and a walking beam.  Both are based on 18th
century references, as far as I can tell. The one in "The Woodwright's Eclectic
Workshop" comes from "L'Art du Torneur Mecanecien" by M. Hulot (1775).
>
> Following up on questions folks asked at Gulf Wars, I'm trying to find out
when this type of lathe first appeared.  Unfortunately, all the references I've
found so far make these huge broad jumps - "Earliest lathes found on Egyptian
walls...Spring pole lathes appear about the 10th century...treadle lathes
following deVinci's drawing in the 15th century.
>
> Any ideas on other sources I should pursue?  I've found "The history of the
lathe to 1850" by Woodbury, and "Technology in the Ancient World" by Knopf.
>
> Bayard
>

The pewterer and the bellmaker in the V&A online version both show great wheel
lathes, continuous rotation, requiring an assistant to provide the power. 
Unfortunately, the turner isn't shown in that version.

IF you come across other images with lathes, please let me know.  I'm starting a
file.

Bayard

--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, John Newton <masahide@...> wrote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> "The Book of Trades (Das Standebuch)"  by Hans Sachs, published in 1568
> shows several woodcuts with lathes in them. One for the turner, one for
> the pewterer, and I think there is another one too. I haven't looked
> really closely at the types, but I think they are all spring pole. In
> any case, it might be worth your time.
>
> V&A has a digital version with translations online:
> http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/articles/t/the-book-of-trades-das-standebuch/
> You can buy a print version from Amazon:
>
http://www.amazon.com/Book-Trades-Standebuch-Hans-Sachs/dp/048622886X/ref=sr_1_1\
?ie=UTF8&qid=1332605102&sr=8-1
>
> And you can find most of the images as high res scans on Wikipedia.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Masahide
>
> On 3/24/2012 7:15 AM, medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> > 1a. Period lathe references?
> >      Posted by: "Ron" williams@... bayard_turner
> >      Date: Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:12 pm ((PDT))
> >
> > So now I find that Roy Underhill has built not one but two spring-pole
lathes with an under-slung, short pole and a walking beam.  Both are based on
18th century references, as far as I can tell. The one in "The Woodwright's
Eclectic Workshop" comes from "L'Art du Torneur Mecanecien" by M. Hulot (1775).
> >
> > Following up on questions folks asked at Gulf Wars, I'm trying to find out
when this type of lathe first appeared.  Unfortunately, all the references I've
found so far make these huge broad jumps - "Earliest lathes found on Egyptian
walls...Spring pole lathes appear about the 10th century...treadle lathes
following deVinci's drawing in the 15th century.
> >
> > Any ideas on other sources I should pursue?  I've found "The history of the
lathe to 1850" by Woodbury, and "Technology in the Ancient World" by Knopf.
> >
> > Bayard
> >
>

Due to guilds the lathes of a pewterer and a bellmaker are unrelated to woodworking.  I know of no refferances to a woodworkers lathe being anything other then a springpole.  While the technology for a flywheel lathe was available there was no need for it in a woodshop when a springpole does the job well.  Also a springpole is cheaper and easily made.  It requires less maintainence.

--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Dan Baker <LordRhys@...> wrote:
>
> Due to guilds the lathes of a pewterer and a bellmaker are unrelated to
> woodworking.  I know of no refferances to a woodworkers lathe being
> anything other then a springpole.  While the technology for a flywheel
> lathe was available there was no need for it in a woodshop when a
> springpole does the job well.  Also a springpole is cheaper and easily
> made.  It requires less maintainence.

Well... Stuart King, in his history of the lathe
(http://www.stuartking.co.uk/index.php/history-of-the-lathe-part-two-continuous-\
rotation/ ) disagrees with on several points you made. Dan, I don't know your
background, but I do know his, and well, it's purty strong.

Further, John Edwards the (past) president of the Ornamental Turners, states the
full Ornamental turning was being done in Germany (and surrounding areas by the
15th Century. Trust me when I tell you, doing full OT on a reciprocal action
lathe, is well, not possible.

I've even found some references to water-powered lathes in period. But I have a
tendency to distrust those, just has I have for the reference I found that King
Henry VII (England) dabbled in turning.

Spring-pole, was, and is, the predominate lathe, at least for man-power. But to
say that there was no continuous rotation lathes is certainly reaching.

Ralg
AnTir

I only said I know of no refferances. I would love to see some.

Lord Rhys

> Due to guilds the lathes of a pewterer and a bellmaker are unrelated to
> woodworking.

Despite this, the complicated technology of the lathe itself
transcends a single guild/profession. There is a period depiction of a
lens-grinders lathe which is essentially a woodworker's spring lathe,
with the addition of a right-angle pulley at the work center to
convert it from horizontal to vertical turning action.


Ralg:
> References on period lathes tend to be a little thin.

It's a relative statement. I'd use the word "plentiful and detailed", myself.

' |   Broom        IAmBroom @ gmail . com
' |   cellphone:             412-389-1997
' |   923 Haslage Ave, Pittsburgh, PA 15212
' |   "Discere et docere", which means:
'\|/  "Literature is the art of writing something that will be read
'/|\  twice; journalism what will be grasped at once."
//|\\ - Cyril Connolly