On Sat, August 7, 2010 8:27 pm, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart wrote:
> I've got a halfway descent monthly antique show near me that I saw
> a fair amount of tools at during my first visit.
>
>
> I'd like to pick up a few but I do not want to insult by offering too
> little and I do not want to get taken by an unscrupulous dealer...
>
>
> Anyone have a good suggestion for a general reference book to give me
> a feel of what the market supports in value?
>
Milord Baron: the "market" as represented by antique shows is the last
place one should look for tools!  Prices are greatly inflated there, by
collectors and by a tradition of "no bargains for outsiders".

Prices for insiders vary according to a whole bunch of trivial details, of
interest only to collectors.  An insider can occasionally get a reasonable
deal on what collectors call a "user"--meaning a tool that's only good for
shop use.  Even those prices run high by my standards.

There's not really a "market" for used tools in the usual sense of the
word, except for the hugely inflated antique market, where there are
indeed reference books, websites and grading standards.  However, these
grading standards are not based on quality of the steel or performance,
but on rarity and cosmetics.  From the point of view of someone who just
wants a good tool for good work, you definitely will _not_ get what you
pay for.

Bargains come from people who are cleaning out their basement, or getting
rid of the stuff Grandpa couldn't take with him. People who don't know
"market" prices and often don't even know what the tool is for.
Occasionally, a dealer will be in this situation, if they don't know tools
and only handle a few of them.  Restorers, of furniture, stoves and so on,
often find they have to buy a pallet of odds and ends at an estate auction
to get the chair or woodstove they actually want, and these people
sometimes have an interesting shelf or table of used tools at fair prices.
  (I got my wonderful Champion forge blower for thirty bucks that way, from
a stove restorer who didn't even know what it was.  She just knew she was
tired of stubbing her toe on the base of it.)

A "fair" price is hard to define under these conditions.  Blacksmiths are
a special case--around here at least, smiths seem to have a tradition of
tool prices not antique prices, and something of a fair standard market
can be found at tailgate sales during blacksmithing events.  For instance,
a blower like mine goes for 100-150 dollars, good anvils for 2-3 dollars
per pound, leg vises for 1-2 dollars a pound, and so on.

I don't know of any equivalent for woodworking tools, though I try to
apply the same principles when I happen to have some to sell.  Personally
I very rarely buy tools new or at antique stores.  Sooner than pay those
prices, I'll often make them up from scratch.  You'd be surprised how
often this is doable, and how good the tools can turn out to be.

Ulfhedinn

--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart <baronconal@...>
wrote:
>
> I've got a halfway descent monthly antique show near me that I saw
> a fair amount of tools at during my first visit.
>

I assume you are asking about getting tools to use (as opposed to display), in
which case Ulfhedinn is 100% smack on.

I would recommend you find, contact and join your regional/local "Tool
Collectors" http://www.oldtools.com/clubs.html

They are used to people that want to use old tools (as opposed to just display
them)

Ralg
AnTir

I was actualy looking at the book and still screwed up the spelling

Ulfhedinn is correct.
But there are some oportunities.
  You should first look up a new product price of the highest calliber. Lets say
chisles. Be specific in your search online or in a store.
Beware of the cheep stuff and recognize it!
The highest quality may cost $100.00
A Good quality may cost $60
a servicable one may cost $25-30
a cheep one is $7.00 ( this one is only good for scraping cement since it will
never hold an edge)

How you have done some home work. Even though Collectors pay way too mutch for
most antique tools. It is hard to find contemporary equivellents in construction
materials. Like using virgin steel.
look up that and see what happens to the price of your new tool. All of the
sudden a long in the blade chisle selling at $20 is not too bad a deal.
Especialy since it's eqiv. would cost over $60.

I have no idea what you are realy looking for, but what ever it is you are not
likely to find a deal on the table with each tool carefully laied out. Lightly
oiled to a nice sheen. Maybe velvet That would be so nice.
You would be better off looking for a box of rusty stuff to dig in.

If you don't have to ask "Hey HOW Much for this old thing?" Then you are
probibly getting ripped off!  LOL

A rule an old antique dealer told me. If you are going to do business with some
one over and over. Pay what they ask for the first thing you buy. On the second
make a low but reasonable offer. This way they know you are spending money and
not just playing with them.

Last note; Tools are like collecting coins
If you know anything about the value of silver you will notice that a quarter
made of silver is worth about $2.50 (est) and the very next year not made from
solid silver is worth $0.50
In this very generic case the metal collector will pay far more than the coin
collector on the first coin, and far less on the second coin.

You and the tool collector are at odds as a tool user. But there are times the
user prevails.
GOOD LUCK
ERIK'Mage

I believe you can use Verselle as an example.
I do many of the old world finishes and have an old book that describes How to
do ancient wood graining. published in the 1950's.

Okay here it is the 'Salle de spectacle' was addorned with marblized wood or
gilded wood.
Since wood graining is the easier of the two to do it is only logical to assuem
the artist that practiced Marblizing was also an expert at wood graining . Both
of which are Faux (french) finish.

Thanks to Louis and Marrie we have lots of cool things. Like the carousel 1600's

ERIK mage

--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Ceara ni Neill <ceara@...> wrote:
>
> I know that faux finishing (as a woodgrain pattern) dates back at least to
> the 1700's. Does anyone have any references of it before 1600?
> --Ceara
>

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

On Mon, August 16, 2010 7:00 am, powell.sean@... wrote:

> For a 'general purpose' draw bench for me it has to handle the things I
> use my draw knife on most... which is rattan. Mostly that means handles
> but occasionally that means sword blanks or even pole-arms. I like the
> idea of balanced loading with the clamp between two side bars but the
> ability to take a long piece out sideways to flip it end for end actually
> matters more to me. I can always brace the opposite side with a spacer if
> necessary.

The first advantage of the German (also called "dumbhead",from the name
for the block that forms the movable jaw) is the way it's so much faster
to switch ends. Pulling a long piece all the way through the top space of
the English (bodgers) type horse is a pain.

The German type also has more leverage; I find the English type sometimes
slips on me when the drawknife finds a knot.

One useful trick with the English type is to have a roller for the top
bar; it can adjust to irregular surfaces on the workpiece that way.  Some
people even make different faces on the roller bar for different jobs
(padded,grooved, flat)--though you can have this on the German horse too,
if you make a sliding dovetail or other way of changable jaw inserts.

>
>
>
> Now what you didn't ask is if I would actually build a draw bench and
> that is unlikely. For the amount and type of drawknife work I do with
> rattan I prefer to stand and I want the workpiece supported for a longer
> length. That usually means a saw-horse with a wood clamp and stack of
> weights to keep it from sliding.

In spite of all the good advice about shaving horses, I don't have one
either.  I use my Emmert vise, tilted almost flat (parellel to the bench
top) and sit on a stool in front of it.  I brace a foot against the
underpinnings of the bench.  It holds as well as any shaving horse, and
the work angle is adjustable, which is very nice.  It is, however, slower
to release and reclamp the work than even an English, let alone a German,
shaving horse.  Alas, I don't have enough room in my shop for a horse, so
I make do.  Really long workpieces, I have to take outside and use Sean's
method.

Ulfhedinn

I will be strong...

I will not ... AAARGHHH! Can't... fight... the urge... any longer...

www.instructables.com/id/Wooden-Necktie-and-Bowtie/

' |   Broom        IAmBroom @ gmail . com
' |   cellphone:             412-389-1997
' |   9370 Shadduck Rd,  McKean, PA 16426
'\|/  "Discere et docere", which means:
'/|\  "Theory: voluntary military service is natural selection in
//|\\ action."

Quoting Broom <IAmBroom@...>:

> I will be strong...
>
> I will not ... AAARGHHH! Can't... fight... the urge... any longer...
>
> www.instructables.com/id/Wooden-Necktie-and-Bowtie/
>
> ' |   Broom        IAmBroom @ gmail . com
> ' |   cellphone:             412-389-1997
> ' |   9370 Shadduck Rd,  McKean, PA 16426
> '\|/  "Discere et docere", which means:
> '/|\  "Theory: voluntary military service is natural selection in
> //|\\ action."
>



I think I've got my next project!!!!


Rory


--
I know. You know I know. I know you know I know. We know Henry knows,
and Henry
knows we know it.  We're a knowledgeable family.

I have a dumbhead type and cannot imagine anything that could possibly
work any better.  I find myself using it all the time, because it is so
much faster and more convenient than the bench vise for many purposes.

I got mine from Dan Stalzer after one of his workshops.  Here he is
using a similar one:
http://www.whitethornconstruction.com/hardwoods/products/gallery/stalzer.html

Cheers,
Tim


On 8/16/2010 6:14 AM, Conal O'hAirt Jim Hart wrote:
>
>
> I've got a question about shaving horses.... Mostly a question about other's
> opinions on what style of horse they think is most useful.
>
> If you where going to make yourself a shaving horse which style would you
> make and *why*? This would be a *general purpose horse* not meant for
> any one
> specific type of work.
>

My husband and I are in the planning stages of building a Tudor Trailer. 
Essentially, we are treating it as a workshed on a trailer.

Does anyone have any suggestions for software to use for designing our
shed/tudor house?  I've looked at some software on Amazon but haven't found the
right thing.  Basically, we need something that is very flexible but not very
powerful.  We want to be able to design its interior and exterior and be able to
look at what we designed but it doesn't need to spew out a supply list.  It
needs to let us put a beam whereever we want and not just stick with four
different facades.

I could always design it using powerpoint or some graphics software but that's
more cumbersome.

Any suggestions?

In Service,
Katheline

I am concerned that you are too dependant on techknowlogy to make answers of an
extreamly complicated subject that is better done by the common sense aproach.
But if you insist on having a computer 'design ' for you then who am I to
complain.
I've designed many compact spaces in the marine field. Look up some old boat
building books 1950's- 1970's They have very efficiant floor plans that could be
easily addapted.

So ... Go to your computer
try to find a program that designs Boat interiors, or travel trailers.
Draw the outside of the "box" as you want it and dambed the poor graphic walk
through. After all how short it will be. you could draw it before you can load
the program.
GOOD LUCK and Happy Hammering.

--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Katheline van Weye <kat_weye@...> wrote:
>
>
> My husband and I are in the planning stages of building a Tudor Trailer. 
Essentially, we are treating it as a workshed on a trailer.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for software to use for designing our
shed/tudor house?  I've looked at some software on Amazon but haven't found the
right thing.  Basically, we need something that is very flexible but not very
powerful.  We want to be able to design its interior and exterior and be able to
look at what we designed but it doesn't need to spew out a supply list.  It
needs to let us put a beam whereever we want and not just stick with four
different facades.
>
> I could always design it using powerpoint or some graphics software but that's
more cumbersome.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> In Service,
> Katheline
>

--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Broom <IAmBroom@...> wrote:
>
> I will be strong...
>
> I will not ... AAARGHHH! Can't... fight... the urge... any longer...
>
> www.instructables.com/id/Wooden-Necktie-and-Bowtie/
>

http://www.turnedtreasures.com/galleries/hats/hats.html

Ralg
AnTir

--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Katheline van Weye <kat_weye@...> wrote:
>
>
> My husband and I are in the planning stages of building a Tudor Trailer. 
Essentially, we are treating it as a workshed on a trailer.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for software to use for designing our
shed/tudor house?  I've looked at some software on Amazon but haven't found the
right thing.  Basically, we need something that is very flexible but not very
powerful.  We want to be able to design its interior and exterior and be able to
look at what we designed but it doesn't need to spew out a supply list.  It
needs to let us put a beam whereever we want and not just stick with four
different facades.
>
> I could always design it using powerpoint or some graphics software but that's
more cumbersome.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
   3-D modeling software is what you want, only it's got a steep learning curve
and isn't cheap.

   What I would (have have) done is start with paper cut-out (2-D), then when I
thought I had it really close gone to 3-D cut-outs

   Worked well for me, and I am a Geek

Ralg
AnTir

--- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, "Ralph" <n7bsn@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In medievalsawdust@yahoogroups.com, Broom <IAmBroom@> wrote:
> >
> > I will be strong...
> >
> > I will not ... AAARGHHH! Can't... fight... the urge... any longer...
> >
> > www.instructables.com/id/Wooden-Necktie-and-Bowtie/
> >
>
> http://www.turnedtreasures.com/galleries/hats/hats.html
>
> Ralg
> AnTir


  WOW, I found a reference to one in 1777 "almost" period!
http://magnoliawoodbutcher.com/Documents/woodhat.doc

Google sketchup would qualify for this and the best part is that it's FREE!

Micahel

--
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