*http://www.leadertelegram.com/story-opinions.asp?id=BJ4OPL3NIA2

Make cuts, not wish lists *

Considering all this talk of the nearly $1 trillion bailout coming down from
President Obama <http://www.inform.com/Barack+Obama> and the federal
government, it seems everyone in government has forgotten about what's
happening in this country. We are facing one of the biggest economic crises
we have ever faced due to out of control spending and risky spending because
of cheap money provided by the Federal
Reserve<http://www.inform.com/U.S.+Federal+Reserve>.
Yet in spite of all of this, our local governments are creating wish lists
instead of creating cut lists as they should be doing.

I am a part of Eau Claire Area Chamber of
Commerce<http://www.inform.com/Eau+Claire+Area+Chamber+of+Commerce>'s
Public Affairs committee. At a recent meeting, we saw a copy of the city of Eau
Claire <http://www.inform.com/Eau+Claire+%28Wisconsin%29>'s wish list. In a
city of roughly 60,000 people, our local government is asking for more than
$70 million worth of spending. And this comes at a time when
Wisconsin<http://www.inform.com/Wisconsin>is facing a $5.75 billion
deficit and the city will face its own deficit!

As a Libertarian, I believe in smaller government and fiscal responsibility.
If we continue to spend, then it is only a matter of time before it all
comes crashing down. I urge everyone to contact their local municipalities
and state representatives and tell them enough is enough. Also, get involved
with groups such as the Chippewa
Valley<http://www.inform.com/Chippewa+Valley>Campaign for Liberty
(www.Liberty
Wisconsin.com <http://www.inform.com/Wisconsin.com>).

This is our money that they are playing with, and we should not be creating
wish lists in the face of this major economic crisis!

TODD WELCH

Campaign for Liberty, District 3 coordinator

Eau Claire


--
Todd Welch
-----------------------
Blog: www.TheToddToday.com
Liberty in Wisconsin: www.LibertyWisconsin.com
Campaign for Liberty: www.CampaignforLiberty.com
-----------------------
"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever
receive either."  - Benjamin Franklin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 
Jim Maas

"I have never been able to conceive how any rational being could propose
happiness to himself from the exercise of power over others."
Thomas Jefferson




----- Forwarded Message ----
From: "Ethan Nadelmann, DPA Network" <webmaster@...>
To: jamaas2001@...
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 12:30:02 PM
Subject: Update: Kellogg's on Michael Phelps


Having trouble reading this email? View it on our website.
You Can Make a Difference
Dear Jim,
Thanks to you, the campaign against Kellogg's for dumping Michael Phelps has
gotten the media's attention.  We've been the subject of hundreds of news
articles, as well as a segment on CNN.
Now is your chance to increase the heat! We've swamped Kellogg's with comments
on their phone lines, and now we can make sure they listen by sending an email
urging them to retract their statement on Phelps.
DPA Network has already contacted Kellogg's asking for a meeting, and I'll let
you know what we hear. With thousands of drug policy reformers like you taking
action, they'll have to respond.
Believe it or not, a South Carolina sheriff is considering going after Phelps
himself and has already arrested eight people associated with the party last
fall at which he was photographed. So it's more important than ever to stand
with Phelps and make our voices heard.
There should be no more marijuana arrests for Michael Phelps or anyone else. And
Kellogg's should renew their contract with him. Contact them today to keep this
concern at the forefront of Kellogg's -- and the public's -- minds.
Sincerely,






Ethan Nadelmann
Executive Director
Drug Policy Alliance Network
You have received this email because jamaas2001@... is a member of the
Drug Policy Alliance Network mailing list. You can unsubscribe from this mailing
list or modify or change your mailing list subscriptions at any time. For
subscription problems please contact Jeanette Irwin, Director, Internet
Communications jirwin@..., 202.216.0035.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rep. Krusick,

I am writing you concerning the proposed minimum wage increase and
tax increases that you will be voting on today and in the near
future. I would ask you to vote against these.
The middle class here in WI is taking it on the chin from the
recession and the housing market. Now my elected officials want to
dig deeper into my pockets by raising the minimum wage which will be
directly passed on to consumers who will not be getting a dollar an
hour raise. the result of this will be less consumer spending by
those of us who are having our own difficulties making ends meet. The
main beneficiaries of this raise are teens working in starter jobs
and workers in small businesses that are already struggling to make
ends meet. The minority of people that this will help will only be
hurt in the end run as we lose more jobs by companies who can't
afford the higher wage rates. Now is not the time to add unfunded
mandates on business.
The other concern I have is when did it become my elected officials
job to tell business how to run itself? The contitution of this state
and the federal constitution do not grant my legislators this power.
I understand why you want to help the lower income people, but I have
serious concerns as to where this power not granted by the
constitution is coming from. I am more than willing to help those
less fortunate than I, in fact I do that for a living. But my
legislators are alientating these people from the average citizen who
now looks on them as free loaders and wash their hands of helping out
of the goodness of their hearts.
As for raising taxes, that is a no brainer right now. you raise
taxes, especially on business and you will see worsening economic
situation here in WI. We have chased enough business from this state.
It is time to give us a break and cut some spending in Madison. The
budget needs to be balanced and if that means cutting programs then
that is what has to be done. It is time to make some tough choices in
Madison and quit telling us to make sacrifices. Let's see the
legislature, the executive branch and the judicial branch make some
sacrifices. Let's see a 10% pay cut across the board including staff.
Then come and talk to us about making sacrifices.
Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Brad Sponholz

Brad I would argue that the minimum wage increase does not even help teens,
with a higher starting wage it will make it more difficult for a teen to get
a job as they are less skilled.  Usually people making minimum wage are
people just starting out in industry / a job.  Raising minimum wage will
mean you will need to have more skills and learn quicker or you will be
gone.


Todd

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 8:25 AM, Brad Sponholz <bsponholz@...> wrote:

>
> Rep. Krusick,
>
> I am writing you concerning the proposed minimum wage increase and
> tax increases that you will be voting on today and in the near
> future. I would ask you to vote against these.
> The middle class here in WI is taking it on the chin from the
> recession and the housing market. Now my elected officials want to
> dig deeper into my pockets by raising the minimum wage which will be
> directly passed on to consumers who will not be getting a dollar an
> hour raise. the result of this will be less consumer spending by
> those of us who are having our own difficulties making ends meet. The
> main beneficiaries of this raise are teens working in starter jobs
> and workers in small businesses that are already struggling to make
> ends meet. The minority of people that this will help will only be
> hurt in the end run as we lose more jobs by companies who can't
> afford the higher wage rates. Now is not the time to add unfunded
> mandates on business.
> The other concern I have is when did it become my elected officials
> job to tell business how to run itself? The contitution of this state
> and the federal constitution do not grant my legislators this power.
> I understand why you want to help the lower income people, but I have
> serious concerns as to where this power not granted by the
> constitution is coming from. I am more than willing to help those
> less fortunate than I, in fact I do that for a living. But my
> legislators are alientating these people from the average citizen who
> now looks on them as free loaders and wash their hands of helping out
> of the goodness of their hearts.
> As for raising taxes, that is a no brainer right now. you raise
> taxes, especially on business and you will see worsening economic
> situation here in WI. We have chased enough business from this state.
> It is time to give us a break and cut some spending in Madison. The
> budget needs to be balanced and if that means cutting programs then
> that is what has to be done. It is time to make some tough choices in
> Madison and quit telling us to make sacrifices. Let's see the
> legislature, the executive branch and the judicial branch make some
> sacrifices. Let's see a 10% pay cut across the board including staff.
> Then come and talk to us about making sacrifices.
> Thank you for your time.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Brad Sponholz
>
>
>



--
Todd Welch
-----------------------
Blog: www.TheToddToday.com
Liberty in Wisconsin: www.LibertyWisconsin.com
Campaign for Liberty: www.CampaignforLiberty.com
-----------------------
"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever
receive either."  - Benjamin Franklin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good letter Brad, sent a similar one to Obey my 7th district Congreeman,
primarily on saving monies by getting our miltary out of Afghanistan thus saving
millions if not billions of dollars much needed here on the home front as well
as lives.
JWB
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Brad Sponholz
   To: lpwi@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 8:25 AM
   Subject: [LPWI] a letter to my Assembly person and former adversary



   Rep. Krusick,

   I am writing you concerning the proposed minimum wage increase and
   tax increases that you will be voting on today and in the near
   future. I would ask you to vote against these.
   The middle class here in WI is taking it on the chin from the
   recession and the housing market. Now my elected officials want to
   dig deeper into my pockets by raising the minimum wage which will be
   directly passed on to consumers who will not be getting a dollar an
   hour raise. the result of this will be less consumer spending by
   those of us who are having our own difficulties making ends meet. The
   main beneficiaries of this raise are teens working in starter jobs
   and workers in small businesses that are already struggling to make
   ends meet. The minority of people that this will help will only be
   hurt in the end run as we lose more jobs by companies who can't
   afford the higher wage rates. Now is not the time to add unfunded
   mandates on business.
   The other concern I have is when did it become my elected officials
   job to tell business how to run itself? The contitution of this state
   and the federal constitution do not grant my legislators this power.
   I understand why you want to help the lower income people, but I have
   serious concerns as to where this power not granted by the
   constitution is coming from. I am more than willing to help those
   less fortunate than I, in fact I do that for a living. But my
   legislators are alientating these people from the average citizen who
   now looks on them as free loaders and wash their hands of helping out
   of the goodness of their hearts.
   As for raising taxes, that is a no brainer right now. you raise
   taxes, especially on business and you will see worsening economic
   situation here in WI. We have chased enough business from this state.
   It is time to give us a break and cut some spending in Madison. The
   budget needs to be balanced and if that means cutting programs then
   that is what has to be done. It is time to make some tough choices in
   Madison and quit telling us to make sacrifices. Let's see the
   legislature, the executive branch and the judicial branch make some
   sacrifices. Let's see a 10% pay cut across the board including staff.
   Then come and talk to us about making sacrifices.
   Thank you for your time.

   Sincerely,

   Brad Sponholz




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Feb 15, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Todd Welch wrote:

> Brad I would argue that the minimum wage increase does not even help
> teens,
>  with a higher starting wage it will make it more difficult for a teen
> to get
>  a job as they are less skilled. Usually people making minimum wage are
>  people just starting out in industry / a job. Raising minimum wage
> will
>  mean you will need to have more skills and learn quicker or you will
> be
>  gone.

Huh?

Then how will the work get done?

Who will be getting the Whopper for me at Burger King?  A higher
skilled employee?  That hasn't happened with all the other
increases in the minimum wage, and there's no reason why this
time would be different.

I'm not in favor of raising the minimum wage, nor am I even in
favor of having one.  But if you're going to present economic
arguments against it, then those arguments need to make sense.

Eric Norman

Actually Eric yes, they will be required to be able to move X more burgers
per hour to make up for the cost increase.  Either that or you will be
required to pay X more for you burger, I do not think the dollar menu will
last much longer.


Todd

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Eric Norman <ejnorman@...> wrote:

>
> On Feb 15, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Todd Welch wrote:
>
> > Brad I would argue that the minimum wage increase does not even help
> > teens,
> > with a higher starting wage it will make it more difficult for a teen
> > to get
> > a job as they are less skilled. Usually people making minimum wage are
> > people just starting out in industry / a job. Raising minimum wage
> > will
> > mean you will need to have more skills and learn quicker or you will
> > be
> > gone.
>
> Huh?
>
> Then how will the work get done?
>
> Who will be getting the Whopper for me at Burger King? A higher
> skilled employee? That hasn't happened with all the other
> increases in the minimum wage, and there's no reason why this
> time would be different.
>
> I'm not in favor of raising the minimum wage, nor am I even in
> favor of having one. But if you're going to present economic
> arguments against it, then those arguments need to make sense.
>
> Eric Norman
>
>
>



--
Todd Welch
-----------------------
Blog: www.TheToddToday.com
Liberty in Wisconsin: www.LibertyWisconsin.com
Campaign for Liberty: www.CampaignforLiberty.com
-----------------------
"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever
receive either."  - Benjamin Franklin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Also I guess one of the main things I am talking about are internships,
minimum wage increases will make less internships available or they will
become unpaid.  In fact I own TC-TEKS Computers and we are taking on two
interns.  We would be happy to pay them say $3 or $4 per hour but because
that would be illegal we are paying them $0 per hour.


Todd

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Todd Welch <toddw81@...> wrote:

> Actually Eric yes, they will be required to be able to move X more burgers
> per hour to make up for the cost increase.  Either that or you will be
> required to pay X more for you burger, I do not think the dollar menu will
> last much longer.
>
>
> Todd
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Eric Norman <ejnorman@...>wrote:
>
>>
>> On Feb 15, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Todd Welch wrote:
>>
>> > Brad I would argue that the minimum wage increase does not even help
>> > teens,
>> > with a higher starting wage it will make it more difficult for a teen
>> > to get
>> > a job as they are less skilled. Usually people making minimum wage are
>> > people just starting out in industry / a job. Raising minimum wage
>> > will
>> > mean you will need to have more skills and learn quicker or you will
>> > be
>> > gone.
>>
>> Huh?
>>
>> Then how will the work get done?
>>
>> Who will be getting the Whopper for me at Burger King? A higher
>> skilled employee? That hasn't happened with all the other
>> increases in the minimum wage, and there's no reason why this
>> time would be different.
>>
>> I'm not in favor of raising the minimum wage, nor am I even in
>> favor of having one. But if you're going to present economic
>> arguments against it, then those arguments need to make sense.
>>
>> Eric Norman
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Todd Welch
> -----------------------
> Blog: www.TheToddToday.com
> Liberty in Wisconsin: www.LibertyWisconsin.com
> Campaign for Liberty: www.CampaignforLiberty.com
> -----------------------
> "The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever
> receive either."  - Benjamin Franklin
>



--
Todd Welch
-----------------------
Blog: www.TheToddToday.com
Liberty in Wisconsin: www.LibertyWisconsin.com
Campaign for Liberty: www.CampaignforLiberty.com
-----------------------
"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever
receive either."  - Benjamin Franklin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Also I guess one of the main things I am talking about are internships,minimum
wage increases will make less internships available or they will become unpaid. 
In fact I own TC-TEKS Computers and we are taking on two interns.  We would be
happy to pay them say $3 or $4 per hour but because that would be illegal we are
paying them $0 per hour.]
There are more creative people out there who find creative ways to trade things
instead of paying dollars. Sort of a barter system. google "barter".

Jim


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Exactly what we are doing Jim, we are offering discounts on items, free
lunches, as well as free stuff that we are not using in exchange for their
work.


Todd

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Jim Maas <jamaas2001@...> wrote:

>   [Also I guess one of the main things I am talking about are
> internships,minimum wage increases will make less internships available or
> they will become unpaid. In fact I own TC-TEKS Computers and we are taking
> on two interns. We would be happy to pay them say $3 or $4 per hour but
> because that would be illegal we are paying them $0 per hour.]
> There are more creative people out there who find creative ways to trade
> things instead of paying dollars. Sort of a barter system. google "barter".
>
> Jim
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
Todd Welch
-----------------------
Blog: www.TheToddToday.com
Liberty in Wisconsin: www.LibertyWisconsin.com
Campaign for Liberty: www.CampaignforLiberty.com
-----------------------
"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever
receive either."  - Benjamin Franklin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Feb 15, 2009, at 4:48 PM, Todd Welch wrote:

> Exactly what we are doing Jim, we are offering discounts on items, free
>  lunches, as well as free stuff that we are not using in exchange for
> their
>  work.

So you have an incentive to come up with creative ways to compensate
your employees.

Gee, I don't know whether that would be an argument for or against
the minimum wage, or even whether there's any connection whatsoever.

But in any case, at least they're not arguments against a minimum
wage based on silliness like teen agers and job skills.

Eric Norman

So Eric are you trying to say that increased pay has nothing to do with
skill level?  If they are going to pay you more they will make sure you can
do more.


Todd

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Eric Norman <ejnorman@...> wrote:

>
> On Feb 15, 2009, at 4:48 PM, Todd Welch wrote:
>
> > Exactly what we are doing Jim, we are offering discounts on items, free
> > lunches, as well as free stuff that we are not using in exchange for
> > their
> > work.
>
> So you have an incentive to come up with creative ways to compensate
> your employees.
>
> Gee, I don't know whether that would be an argument for or against
> the minimum wage, or even whether there's any connection whatsoever.
>
> But in any case, at least they're not arguments against a minimum
> wage based on silliness like teen agers and job skills.
>
> Eric Norman
>
>
>



--
Todd Welch
-----------------------
Blog: www.TheToddToday.com
Liberty in Wisconsin: www.LibertyWisconsin.com
Campaign for Liberty: www.CampaignforLiberty.com
-----------------------
"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever
receive either."  - Benjamin Franklin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Feb 15, 2009, at 6:41 PM, Todd Welch wrote:

> So Eric are you trying to say that increased pay has nothing to do with
>  skill level? If they are going to pay you more they will make sure
> you can
>  do more.

The subject was minimum wage and its consequences, not correlation
between
pay level and job skills.  I was trying to point out that if you're
going
to write letters to representatives, the letters will probably have more
impact if they present sensible arguments.

Eric Norman

and in my opinion it does, if you raise the minimum wage then you make it
harder for less skilled people to get a job.  Lets take your fast food
example, if I am a teenager flipping burgers and someone else with better
skills at flipping burgers comes in, I very well may lose my job because now
that they have to pay me more they can not afford to have a slower burger
flipper around.


Todd

On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Eric Norman <ejnorman@...> wrote:

>
> On Feb 15, 2009, at 6:41 PM, Todd Welch wrote:
>
> > So Eric are you trying to say that increased pay has nothing to do with
> > skill level? If they are going to pay you more they will make sure
> > you can
> > do more.
>
> The subject was minimum wage and its consequences, not correlation
> between
> pay level and job skills. I was trying to point out that if you're
> going
> to write letters to representatives, the letters will probably have more
> impact if they present sensible arguments.
>
> Eric Norman
>
>
>



--
Todd Welch
-----------------------
Blog: www.TheToddToday.com
Liberty in Wisconsin: www.LibertyWisconsin.com
Campaign for Liberty: www.CampaignforLiberty.com
-----------------------
"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever
receive either."  - Benjamin Franklin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Feb 15, 2009, at 8:47 PM, Todd Welch wrote:

> and in my opinion it does, if you raise the minimum wage then you make
> it
>  harder for less skilled people to get a job. Lets take your fast food
>  example, if I am a teenager flipping burgers and someone else with
> better
>  skills at flipping burgers comes in, I very well may lose my job
> because now
>  that they have to pay me more they can not afford to have a slower
> burger
>  flipper around.

If Burger King sees a need for better burger flippers, then they
will probably do something about it.  That may involve offering
them higher wages, or it may not.  There are other possibilities.

So how does increasing the minimum wage create a need for better
burger flippers?

Try to think in terms of incentives.  It will make it easier to
keep causal relationships straight.

Eric Norman

Might wish to take Culver's in that condition; where they tend to hire older
people to do the tasks most fast food joints reserve for younger people.  Why? 
Older people are more reliable, tend to be better workers and is probably one of
the few areas of employment where limited job skills can easily be accomodated.
JWB

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Todd Welch
   To: lpwi@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2009 8:47 PM
   Subject: Re: [LPWI] a letter to my Assembly person and former adversary


   and in my opinion it does, if you raise the minimum wage then you make it
   harder for less skilled people to get a job. Lets take your fast food
   example, if I am a teenager flipping burgers and someone else with better
   skills at flipping burgers comes in, I very well may lose my job because now
   that they have to pay me more they can not afford to have a slower burger
   flipper around.

   Todd

   On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 7:23 PM, Eric Norman <ejnorman@...> wrote:

   >
   > On Feb 15, 2009, at 6:41 PM, Todd Welch wrote:
   >
   > > So Eric are you trying to say that increased pay has nothing to do with
   > > skill level? If they are going to pay you more they will make sure
   > > you can
   > > do more.
   >
   > The subject was minimum wage and its consequences, not correlation
   > between
   > pay level and job skills. I was trying to point out that if you're
   > going
   > to write letters to representatives, the letters will probably have more
   > impact if they present sensible arguments.
   >
   > Eric Norman
   >
   >
   >

   --
   Todd Welch
   -----------------------
   Blog: www.TheToddToday.com
   Liberty in Wisconsin: www.LibertyWisconsin.com
   Campaign for Liberty: www.CampaignforLiberty.com
   -----------------------
   "The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever
   receive either." - Benjamin Franklin

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

fyi

The other four candidates are struggling to get their messages out with free
publicity and direct mailings.
They are virtual schools advocate Rose Fernandez, Beloit Schools Superintendent
Lowell Holtz, Concordia University professor Van Mobley and National-Louis
University professor Todd Price.
Each has tried to stake out their own turf. Fernandez says she's the only true
candidate outside the education system. A former president of a state coalition
that advocates virtual schools, she promises to change the state Department of
Public Instruction and, if elected, could be at odds with the Democratic
administration of Gov. Jim Doyle.
 
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rose-Fernandez/40708101379
http://www.changedpi.com/

 
Jim Maas

"You can't fight city hall, but you can pee on the steps and run."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

As a PC support business owner, I have to agree. I run it all by myself, but I
would love to train someone, especially a good people person. Some geeks are a
bit rough around the edges. Tech smart, people stupid. With the minimum wage, I
would never be able to afford to train someone from scratch.

What I need most in my business is a smart body to go onsite to pickup or setup
PCs on a network Once online I can do remote access. With minimum wage laws and
all the other regulations, it just doesn't pay to bother with employees. I will
convert my wife to that task before I take on an employee. Good Job, Wisconsin!



--- On Sun, 2/15/09, Todd Welch <toddw81@...> wrote:
From: Todd Welch <toddw81@...>
Subject: Re: [LPWI] a letter to my Assembly person and former adversary
To: lpwi@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 3:29 PM












             Also I guess one of the main things I am talking about are
internships,

minimum wage increases will make less internships available or they will

become unpaid.  In fact I own TC-TEKS Computers and we are taking on two

interns.  We would be happy to pay them say $3 or $4 per hour but because

that would be illegal we are paying them $0 per hour.



Todd



On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Todd Welch <toddw81@gmail. com> wrote:



> Actually Eric yes, they will be required to be able to move X more burgers

> per hour to make up for the cost increase.  Either that or you will be

> required to pay X more for you burger, I do not think the dollar menu will

> last much longer.

>

>

> Todd

>

>

> On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Eric Norman <ejnorman@doit. wisc.edu>wrote:

>

>>

>> On Feb 15, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Todd Welch wrote:

>>

>> > Brad I would argue that the minimum wage increase does not even help

>> > teens,

>> > with a higher starting wage it will make it more difficult for a teen

>> > to get

>> > a job as they are less skilled. Usually people making minimum wage are

>> > people just starting out in industry / a job. Raising minimum wage

>> > will

>> > mean you will need to have more skills and learn quicker or you will

>> > be

>> > gone.

>>

>> Huh?

>>

>> Then how will the work get done?

>>

>> Who will be getting the Whopper for me at Burger King? A higher

>> skilled employee? That hasn't happened with all the other

>> increases in the minimum wage, and there's no reason why this

>> time would be different.

>>

>> I'm not in favor of raising the minimum wage, nor am I even in

>> favor of having one. But if you're going to present economic

>> arguments against it, then those arguments need to make sense.

>>

>> Eric Norman

>>

>>

>>

>

>

>

> --

> Todd Welch

> ------------ --------- --

> Blog: www.TheToddToday. com

> Liberty in Wisconsin: www.LibertyWisconsi n.com

> Campaign for Liberty: www.CampaignforLibe rty.com

> ------------ --------- --

> "The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever

> receive either."  - Benjamin Franklin

>



--

Todd Welch

------------ --------- --

Blog: www.TheToddToday. com

Liberty in Wisconsin: www.LibertyWisconsi n.com

Campaign for Liberty: www.CampaignforLibe rty.com

------------ --------- --

"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever

receive either."  - Benjamin Franklin



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It is simple, skill takes time. Employers will be impatient with lesser skilled
workers when they have premium pay mandated by the state.

They will not want to raise prices, so the less skilled will be canned quickly.
Efficiency will become more important. Most restaurants already have a graduated
pay scale based on skill and time on the job. When the state takes the bottom of
your pay scale and throws it over the top of your scale, things will have to
change dramatically. If, you have to cut someone, you will not be cutting the
high speed guy on the line. So, an increase of the minimum wage discriminates
against all new employees and those with lesser skills.




--- On Sun, 2/15/09, Eric Norman <ejnorman@...> wrote:
From: Eric Norman <ejnorman@...>
Subject: Re: [LPWI] a letter to my Assembly person and former adversary
To: lpwi@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 10:46 PM














On Feb 15, 2009, at 8:47 PM, Todd Welch wrote:



> and in my opinion it does, if you raise the minimum wage then you make

> it

>  harder for less skilled people to get a job. Lets take your fast food

>  example, if I am a teenager flipping burgers and someone else with

> better

>  skills at flipping burgers comes in, I very well may lose my job

> because now

>  that they have to pay me more they can not afford to have a slower

> burger

>  flipper around.



If Burger King sees a need for better burger flippers, then they

will probably do something about it.  That may involve offering

them higher wages, or it may not.  There are other possibilities.



So how does increasing the minimum wage create a need for better

burger flippers?



Try to think in terms of incentives.  It will make it easier to

keep causal relationships straight.



Eric Norman































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

She is on my short list for tomorrow's election. I still have to solidify my
local school board races. Too many are educators (indoctrinators).



--- On Mon, 2/16/09, Jim Maas <jamaas2001@...> wrote:
From: Jim Maas <jamaas2001@...>
Subject: [LPWI] DPI
To: "LPWI" <lpwi@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "LP North Country co-announce" <LPNCo-announce@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 8:52 AM












             fyi



The other four candidates are struggling to get their messages out with free
publicity and direct mailings.

They are virtual schools advocate Rose Fernandez, Beloit Schools Superintendent
Lowell Holtz, Concordia University professor Van Mobley and National-Louis
University professor Todd Price.

Each has tried to stake out their own turf. Fernandez says she's the only true
candidate outside the education system. A former president of a state coalition
that advocates virtual schools, she promises to change the state Department of
Public Instruction and, if elected, could be at odds with the Democratic
administration of Gov. Jim Doyle.

 

http://www.facebook .com/pages/ Rose-Fernandez/ 40708101379

http://www.changedp i.com/



 

Jim Maas



"You can't fight city hall, but you can pee on the steps and run."



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Excellent letter Brad!

--- On Sun, 2/15/09, Brad Sponholz <bsponholz@...> wrote:

From: Brad Sponholz <bsponholz@...>
Subject: [LPWI] a letter to my Assembly person and former adversary
To: lpwi@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 8:25 AM







Rep. Krusick,

I am writing you concerning the proposed minimum wage increase and
tax increases that you will be voting on today and in the near
future. I would ask you to vote against these.
The middle class here in WI is taking it on the chin from the
recession and the housing market. Now my elected officials want to
dig deeper into my pockets by raising the minimum wage which will be
directly passed on to consumers who will not be getting a dollar an
hour raise. the result of this will be less consumer spending by
those of us who are having our own difficulties making ends meet. The
main beneficiaries of this raise are teens working in starter jobs
and workers in small businesses that are already struggling to make
ends meet. The minority of people that this will help will only be
hurt in the end run as we lose more jobs by companies who can't
afford the higher wage rates. Now is not the time to add unfunded
mandates on business.
The other concern I have is when did it become my elected officials
job to tell business how to run itself? The contitution of this state
and the federal constitution do not grant my legislators this power.
I understand why you want to help the lower income people, but I have
serious concerns as to where this power not granted by the
constitution is coming from. I am more than willing to help those
less fortunate than I, in fact I do that for a living. But my
legislators are alientating these people from the average citizen who
now looks on them as free loaders and wash their hands of helping out
of the goodness of their hearts.
As for raising taxes, that is a no brainer right now. you raise
taxes, especially on business and you will see worsening economic
situation here in WI. We have chased enough business from this state.
It is time to give us a break and cut some spending in Madison. The
budget needs to be balanced and if that means cutting programs then
that is what has to be done. It is time to make some tough choices in
Madison and quit telling us to make sacrifices. Let's see the
legislature, the executive branch and the judicial branch make some
sacrifices. Let's see a 10% pay cut across the board including staff.
Then come and talk to us about making sacrifices.
Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

Brad Sponholz



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Eric, I would be interested in hearing your argument against minimum wages. I
oppose them as well but you have replied several times without your own version.

--- On Sun, 2/15/09, Eric Norman <ejnorman@...> wrote:

From: Eric Norman <ejnorman@...>
Subject: Re: [LPWI] a letter to my Assembly person and former adversary
To: lpwi@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 15, 2009, 7:23 PM







On Feb 15, 2009, at 6:41 PM, Todd Welch wrote:

> So Eric are you trying to say that increased pay has nothing to do with
> skill level? If they are going to pay you more they will make sure
> you can
> do more.

The subject was minimum wage and its consequences, not correlation
between
pay level and job skills. I was trying to point out that if you're
going
to write letters to representatives, the letters will probably have more
impact if they present sensible arguments.

Eric Norman



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was not making an argument but just pointing out who would receive
the higher minimum wage. Most people who start with larger business and
coporations already start at a higher salary than minimum wage. The
government is just artificially hiking prices and forcing a higher wage
which will not help the majority of people who choose to work for their
livelihood.

On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:43 AM, Joseph Kexel wrote:

> It is simple, skill takes time. Employers will be impatient with
> lesser skilled workers when they have premium pay mandated by the
> state.
>
>  They will not want to raise prices, so the less skilled will be
> canned quickly. Efficiency will become more important. Most
> restaurants already have a graduated pay scale based on skill and time
> on the job. When the state takes the bottom of your pay scale and
> throws it over the top of your scale, things will have to change
> dramatically. If, you have to cut someone, you will not be cutting the
> high speed guy on the line. So, an increase of the minimum wage
> discriminates against all new employees and those with lesser skills.

Now I have to repeat the original question.

Then how will the work get done?

If you fire the people doing the low-paying non-skilled work,
then how will that work get done?  Who will wash the dishes?
Who will make my whopper?  And so forth?

  From the arguments I've seen here, it seems like that work
will get done by Santa's elves.

Eric Norman

Very simple Eric.  It doesn't get done, the business goes under and there are
fewer jobs available then before.
It's called the law of supply and demand.
JWB

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Eric Norman
   To: lpwi@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:07 PM
   Subject: Re: [LPWI] a letter to my Assembly person and former adversary



   On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:43 AM, Joseph Kexel wrote:

   > It is simple, skill takes time. Employers will be impatient with
   > lesser skilled workers when they have premium pay mandated by the
   > state.
   >
   > They will not want to raise prices, so the less skilled will be
   > canned quickly. Efficiency will become more important. Most
   > restaurants already have a graduated pay scale based on skill and time
   > on the job. When the state takes the bottom of your pay scale and
   > throws it over the top of your scale, things will have to change
   > dramatically. If, you have to cut someone, you will not be cutting the
   > high speed guy on the line. So, an increase of the minimum wage
   > discriminates against all new employees and those with lesser skills.

   Now I have to repeat the original question.

   Then how will the work get done?

   If you fire the people doing the low-paying non-skilled work,
   then how will that work get done? Who will wash the dishes?
   Who will make my whopper? And so forth?

   From the arguments I've seen here, it seems like that work
   will get done by Santa's elves.

   Eric Norman




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well,
one result of minimum wage increases is fewer employees in many fast food type
restaurants. Evidence: instead of someone filling your drink cup, you do it
yourself.



Jim Maas

"You can't fight city hall, but you can pee on the steps and run."




________________________________
From: Eric Norman <ejnorman@...>
To: lpwi@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:07:52 PM
Subject: Re: [LPWI] a letter to my Assembly person and former adversary


On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:43 AM, Joseph Kexel wrote:

> It is simple, skill takes time. Employers will be impatient with
> lesser skilled workers when they have premium pay mandated by the
> state.
>
>  They will not want to raise prices, so the less skilled will be
> canned quickly. Efficiency will become more important. Most
> restaurants already have a graduated pay scale based on skill and time
> on the job. When the state takes the bottom of your pay scale and
> throws it over the top of your scale, things will have to change
> dramatically. If, you have to cut someone, you will not be cutting the
> high speed guy on the line. So, an increase of the minimum wage
> discriminates against all new employees and those with lesser skills.

Now I have to repeat the original question.

Then how will the work get done?

If you fire the people doing the low-paying non-skilled work,
then how will that work get done?  Who will wash the dishes?
Who will make my whopper?  And so forth?

From the arguments I've seen here, it seems like that work
will get done by Santa's elves.

Eric Norman

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

McDs has automated quite a bit already. You seem to believe that every business
is running at 100% efficiency. That every person is busy 100% of the time.  That
is likely not true.

What they will do is layoff someone and make the rest work harder. Or, like
McD's, just put a machine in its place or have more self service. When was the
last time you had a drink poured for you at a fast food restaurant? When I
worked at a restaurant years ago, they never wanted to be light handed, but with
higher wages, they may take that chance.

The other option is the business gives up and closes. With high prices, they may
not be competive to having people do it themselves.



--- On Mon, 2/16/09, Eric Norman <ejnorman@...> wrote:
From: Eric Norman <ejnorman@...>
Subject: Re: [LPWI] a letter to my Assembly person and former adversary
To: lpwi@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 5:07 PM














On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:43 AM, Joseph Kexel wrote:



> It is simple, skill takes time. Employers will be impatient with

> lesser skilled workers when they have premium pay mandated by the

> state.

>

>  They will not want to raise prices, so the less skilled will be

> canned quickly. Efficiency will become more important. Most

> restaurants already have a graduated pay scale based on skill and time

> on the job. When the state takes the bottom of your pay scale and

> throws it over the top of your scale, things will have to change

> dramatically. If, you have to cut someone, you will not be cutting the

> high speed guy on the line. So, an increase of the minimum wage

> discriminates against all new employees and those with lesser skills.



Now I have to repeat the original question.



Then how will the work get done?



If you fire the people doing the low-paying non-skilled work,

then how will that work get done?  Who will wash the dishes?

Who will make my whopper?  And so forth?



From the arguments I've seen here, it seems like that work

will get done by Santa's elves.



Eric Norman































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The main race today is State superintendent primary, also some local races
will be up for election today.  I will be voting for Rose Fernandez as she
support tax vouchers for people who do not send their kids to public
school.  The others who responded where strongly against any voucher system
or giving back any tax to people who do not use the public educational
system.

http://www.changedpi.com

"(AP) -- With turnout that may barely reach double digits, it's hard to
predict who will emerge from a field of five candidates wanting to be the
next state superintendent of schools on Tuesday.

The top two vote-getters in Tuesday's primary will advance to face off in
the April 7 general election.

While a number of local primaries are on the ballot, the superintendent of
public instruction is the only statewide race. There are just two candidates
for state Supreme Court so both will automatically advance.

Running for state superintendent are current deputy Tony Evers, virtual
schools advocate Rose Fernandez, Concordia University professor Van Mobley,
National-Louis University professor Todd Price and Beloit Schools
Superintendent Lowell Holtz."

--
Todd Welch
-----------------------
Blog: www.TheToddToday.com
Liberty in Wisconsin: www.LibertyWisconsin.com
Campaign for Liberty: www.CampaignforLiberty.com
-----------------------
"The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever
receive either."  - Benjamin Franklin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Eric, you make some goind points. Perhaps you could expound on what you believe
to be the problem with minimum wage laws.

--- On Mon, 2/16/09, Eric Norman <ejnorman@...> wrote:

From: Eric Norman <ejnorman@...>
Subject: Re: [LPWI] a letter to my Assembly person and former adversary
To: lpwi@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 5:07 PM







On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:43 AM, Joseph Kexel wrote:

> It is simple, skill takes time. Employers will be impatient with
> lesser skilled workers when they have premium pay mandated by the
> state.
>
> They will not want to raise prices, so the less skilled will be
> canned quickly. Efficiency will become more important. Most
> restaurants already have a graduated pay scale based on skill and time
> on the job. When the state takes the bottom of your pay scale and
> throws it over the top of your scale, things will have to change
> dramatically. If, you have to cut someone, you will not be cutting the
> high speed guy on the line. So, an increase of the minimum wage
> discriminates against all new employees and those with lesser skills.

Now I have to repeat the original question.

Then how will the work get done?

If you fire the people doing the low-paying non-skilled work,
then how will that work get done? Who will wash the dishes?
Who will make my whopper? And so forth?

From the arguments I've seen here, it seems like that work
will get done by Santa's elves.

Eric Norman



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good point JIm.

--- On Mon, 2/16/09, Jim Maas <jamaas2001@...> wrote:

From: Jim Maas <jamaas2001@...>
Subject: Re: [LPWI] a letter to my Assembly person and former adversary
To: lpwi@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 16, 2009, 5:48 PM






Well,
one result of minimum wage increases is fewer employees in many fast food type
restaurants. Evidence: instead of someone filling your drink cup, you do it
yourself.

Jim Maas

"You can't fight city hall, but you can pee on the steps and run."

____________ _________ _________ __
From: Eric Norman <ejnorman@doit. wisc.edu>
To: lpwi@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 5:07:52 PM
Subject: Re: [LPWI] a letter to my Assembly person and former adversary

On Feb 16, 2009, at 10:43 AM, Joseph Kexel wrote:

> It is simple, skill takes time. Employers will be impatient with
> lesser skilled workers when they have premium pay mandated by the
> state.
>
> They will not want to raise prices, so the less skilled will be
> canned quickly. Efficiency will become more important. Most
> restaurants already have a graduated pay scale based on skill and time
> on the job. When the state takes the bottom of your pay scale and
> throws it over the top of your scale, things will have to change
> dramatically. If, you have to cut someone, you will not be cutting the
> high speed guy on the line. So, an increase of the minimum wage
> discriminates against all new employees and those with lesser skills.

Now I have to repeat the original question.

Then how will the work get done?

If you fire the people doing the low-paying non-skilled work,
then how will that work get done? Who will wash the dishes?
Who will make my whopper? And so forth?

From the arguments I've seen here, it seems like that work
will get done by Santa's elves.

Eric Norman

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]