On Tue, 8 Aug 2000 RSBrenchley@... wrote:

> I'm sorry, was it Yuri who wrote this originally?

>> "Jesus was a remarkable man, very wise and righteous. He was the son of
God, and he healed the sick, and performed many miracles. But the cruel
and unjust authorities of our country arrested and killed him, just as
they killed his teacher John before that. But then God his Father accepted
Jesus into his bosom, and, as a reward for his righteousness, made his the
Messiah of Israel. Jesus is alive, and he will come back soon in glory to
judge the actions of all, and to usher in a New Age of God. Believe in
Jesus, or you will never have life everlasting." <<

Yes, Robert, this was my reconstruction of earliest Christian theology.

> What was 'the son of God' to a Ist Century Israelite (ie what
> concepts would the Jesus movement have inherited)? Does the title
> imply an angel, as in Gen. 6:2, an Israelite king, as in Ps. 2:7, or
> what?

Why not both? "Son of God" can imply lots of things...

And also don't forget Psalm 82,

"I say, "You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you."

Psalm 82

1 A Psalm of Asaph. God has taken his place in the divine
council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
2 "How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to
the wicked? [Selah]
3 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the
right of the afflicted and the destitute.
4 Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the
hand of the wicked."
5 They have neither knowledge nor understanding, they
walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth
are shaken.
6 I say, "You are gods, sons of the Most High, all of you;
7 nevertheless, you shall die like men, and fall like any
prince."
8 Arise, O God, judge the earth; for to thee belong all the
nations!

> I understand that Ps. 2 was used in a Messianic context by NT
> times

Lots of Messianic ideas in Ps. 82.

> (anyone know any sources for this?), so was 'son of God' the same as
> 'Messiah'?

I see 'son of God' as implying much lower christology than 'Messiah'. The
progression in primitive Christianity was from low to high christology, in
my view.

> The hymn in Philippians 2:6-11 obviously suggests the incarnation
> of a heavenly being who is subsequently exalted, so are we talking
> about an angelic messiah/angel Christology?

Perhaps, but the dating of Philippians 2:6-11 is not so clear. Here's what
I wrote before on this subject,

[quote]

Baur thought that the hymn was gnostic (ABD), with which Koester agrees.
Loisy thought that the hymn, while not written by Paul, and from a later
age, was rather early. Earlier, according to him, than the similar
material in Heb, and also actually earlier that the moral instructions
among which it was inserted. He thought the transition in v. 5 is
"artificial".

On the basis of all this, I would conclude that the hymn dates from the
period ca 70-90, shortly after Paul's death. In my view, it is primarily
the high Christology of the hymn that will put it after the lifetime of
Paul.

I also agree that the hymn is clearly gnostic in inspiration. It carries
in it some rather complex and profound metaphysical insights and beliefs.

[unquote]

More details can be found here,

http://www.trends.ca/~yuku/bbl/alph.htm

> Either way it doesn't fit with the scenario I quote above.

But perhaps it does, depending on how you date various texts.

Best,

Yuri.

Yuri Kuchinsky -=O=- http://www.trends.ca/~yuku -=O=- Toronto

I doubt, therefore I might be.