Sean W. Reed wrote: "Through episcopal consecration, the man who was formerly only a priest, now has the additional capacity to do those things reserved to the...
Fr. Lyons wrote: "...Either way, there is no real scriptural or patristic (or even, insofar as I can tell, middle-ages) agreement on the nature of the...
Actually, Sean, your quote from the Summa shows that Thomas himself recognized an ambiguity in the sacrament of orders. The ambiguity stems from the fact...
... If the Summa was the end-all, be-all of Western Theology, I might agree, but even after the writing of the Summa (1265-1274), you find a period of time...
First of all you should aware of who wrote the quote from Summa. I sent this presuming (bad thing to do) those reading it had sufficient familiarity with...
Sub deacons were minor orders, not major. Bishops in the Latin Rite are still consecrated. The Catechism of the Catholic Church quotes the Second Vatican...
However, the actual Rite reads differently. The post-Vatican II revision calls it the "Ordination of a Bishop." the praenotitiae, the term "ordination" is...
On 6/1/09 8:54 AM, "Father Robert Lyons, SST" <fatherroblyons@...> ... I'm curious to know what proponents of the extraordinary rite do about subdeacons...
Douglas Cowling
cowling.douglas@...
Jun 1, 2009 1:22 pm
35592
... On August 15, 1972, Pope Paul VI's apostolic letter "Ministeria quaedam" abolished the order of Subdeacon in the Latin Rite, saying: "4. Two ministries,...
Your citation from the Summa: "...I answer that, Order may be understood in two ways. In one way as a sacrament, and thus as already stated (Q.37 AA. 2,4),...
On 6/1/09 9:24 AM, "Father Robert Lyons, SST" <fatherroblyons@...> ... And entered the celibate clerical state. Can anyone outline the typical pattern...
Douglas Cowling
cowling.douglas@...
Jun 1, 2009 1:41 pm
35595
The patristic/modern ecclesiology is reflected in the terminology of the 1979 Book of Common Prayer. The main title for all three orders is "The Ordination of...
It is my understanding that in the RC Church, confirmation is frequently done by priests who apparently are given faculties for same. David In a message dated...
dlewisaao@...
Jun 1, 2009 2:40 pm
35597
... Quite true... presbyters may confirm with a faculty. However, for much of Western Christian history, confirmation was viewed as a Sacrament/Rite to be...
On 6/1/09 11:22 AM, "Father Robert Lyons, SST" <fatherroblyons@...> ... There will certainly always be tension between the vertical and horizontal models...
Douglas Cowling
cowling.douglas@...
Jun 1, 2009 3:39 pm
35599
Actually, the rite of confirmation is rooted in the bishop's role of receiving the newly baptized into the eucharistic fellowship. Emerging from the...
... True indeed. In fact, the current initiation rites automatically call for a presbyter to administer confirmation immediately after baptism of a person of...
John Seboldt
rohrwerk@...
Jun 1, 2009 4:46 pm
35601
SUBJECT WAS: How about bells? or not? An excellent proposal. I suggest that, in origin, only two "speaking parts" existed in the Mass: that of the assembly...
Again, I'm bereft of references, but does anyone recall offhand how early the evidence is for having readings of some sort during the eucharistic celebration?...
- Justin Martyr, First Apology, 67:87. "And on the day called Sunday there is a meeting in one place of those who live in the cities or the country, and the...
In a message dated 6/1/2009 09:22:55 Eastern Daylight Time, cowling.douglas@... writes: I'm curious to know what proponents of the extraordinary rite do...
I do not recognize this phrase. Can you cite a document and paragraph? I'll have to see if I can come up with something specific to answer your first part. * ...
Which would mean that Methodist pastors and all Lutheran pastors would be considered legitimate presbyters by the RCs? Shalom b'Yeshua haMoshiach +Michael...
What does the subdeacon do, liturgically, beyond reading the epistle and carrying the processional cross? I'm trying to remember something from Thomas Merton...
Wow, Lew did not read carefully. He did not say bread and wine were distributed. SWR Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From: Lewis Whitaker...
Yes, holding the paten in a humeral veil is a subdeacon duty in the Extraordinary/Tridentine form of the RC Mass. Here's what I do when I'm subdeacon in my...
Wow, Bread and wine were offered, elements were distributed. He certainly didn't talk of transubstantiation. Lew ... [Non-text portions of this message have...
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