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#7875 From: marc guttman <marc_guttman@...>
Date: Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:21 am
Subject: Mexican-America War
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Short recap of the Mexican-American war.

-Marc

http://antiwar.com/radio/2009/11/18/jacob-hornberger-12/

Scott Horton Interviews Jacob Hornberger

Scott Horton, November 18, 2009

Jacob Hornberger, founder and president of the Future of Freedom Foundation, discusses the 1845 annexation of Texas and subsequent Mexican-American War, President James K. Polk’s determination to acquire northern Mexico by conquest after his purchase offer was refused, the U.S. immigrants who defected from the army to fight on Mexico’s side as the San Patricio battalion, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo land grab and the longstanding open-borders policy after the war’s end.

MP3 here. (26:04)

Jacob G. Hornberger is founder and president of The Future of Freedom Foundation. He is a regular writer for The Future of Freedom Foundation’s publication, Freedom Daily, and is a co-editor or contributor to the eight books that have been published by the Foundation.





#7874 From: Carol Moore in DC <fightpatriarchy@...>
Date: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:29 pm
Subject: Can Obama stand up to Israel?
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Obviously this applies to Iran as well. A turkey to contemplate while
you are eating one.
-------
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/1124/p09s03-coop.html
Can Obama stand up to Israel?
It won't be easy, but President Obama must hold Israel to account, both
for the two-state solution and the safety of US troops around the world.
By Helena Cobban

Washington - President Obama urgently needs to distance Washington from
the provocative  and illegal  actions the Israeli government has been
undertaking in Jerusalem.

He needs to do this to save the two-state solution that he supports
between Israelis and Palestinians. He needs to do it, too, because it
will help protect US troops around the world. Jerusalem is a core
concern for many of the world's 1.5 billion Muslims, and with US forces
now facing tense situations in several majority-Muslim countries,
Washington has a stronger need than ever to keep the goodwill of the
peoples of those lands.

This is one of the main findings from a study-tour of the region I
co-led earlier this month. In Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, and the West Bank,
strongly pro-US leaders underlined to us the importance of Jerusalem to
their own political fortunes and those of other American allies
throughout the Muslim world.

Israel took control of the eastern portion of Jerusalem, including the
historic, walled "Old City," in the 1967 war. Since then, Israeli
governments have invested heavily in implanting Jewish settlers into
East Jerusalem, while squeezing out the area's indigenous Palestinians,
both Muslims and Christians.

In recent months this campaign of ethnic transformation has intensified.
On Nov. 16, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced plans
for the construction of 900 new housing units in the southeast
settlement of Gilo. He reportedly did this right after Mr. Obama's
special envoy to the region, George Mitchell, had pleaded with him not
to. But aside from expressing "dismay," have we seen any visible
consequences from Washington? Not yet.

Today, Jerusalem is a tinderbox. If it ignites, American interests will
be at risk, because Washington is seen as acquiescing in Israel's
harmful actions there.

In decades past, when policy differences arose between Israel and the
United States, many of Israel's supporters argued that it was on the
front line against terrorism, so Americans should not second-guess its
judgments or policies.

That was never a wholly convincing argument. But now, the situation has
turned quite around. Today, it is American men and women who are on the
front lines and it is their  and our  interests that are most at risk.

By not holding Israel to account, Washington is needlessly  and
recklessly  offending hundreds of millions of Muslims on whose goodwill
our troops in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere depend.

While in Jerusalem, we saw Israel's destructive policies firsthand. The
Jewish state is:

Expanding the large Israeli-only settlements that ring the city to the
east, north, and south.

Supporting smaller settler "outposts" in the heart of Jerusalem's
remaining Palestinian enclaves.

Completing the 24-foot-high Separation Wall that encloses many
Palestinian portions of the city and slices through the center of others.

Delegating responsibility for archaeological excavations in sensitive
areas to settler organizations that have worked feverishly  and quite
unscientifically  to push tunnels right under the historic "Muslim
Quarter" of the walled Old City.

Making it almost impossible for the city's Palestinians to expand their
housing stock, and conducting regular demolitions of Palestinian housing
it deems "illegal."

All these Israeli actions are themselves illegal under international
law, since Israel controls East Jerusalem and the surrounding West Bank
only as a military occupying power, not a rightful sovereign government.

Imagine if, when the US military occupied Baghdad after 2003, Washington
had taken steps like these! Fortunately, it didn't. Instead, it steadily
delegated authority back to Iraqis themselves.

The US is far and away Israel's biggest external supporter. The aid
America gives to her allies should not be unconditional but used to
uphold US interests. In the Middle East, that means US dollars and
diplomacy should support a fair and sustainable peace between Israelis
and Palestinians and the rule of law in an otherwise chaotic world.

It's true that over the years many Americans have become persuaded that
Greater Jerusalem has been "unified," that it all belongs to Israel, and
indeed is "Israel's eternal capital."

The rest of the world  and international law  doesn't agree. What
people in other countries see is Israel thumbing its nose at
international law as it works to transform the city's ethnic composition.

This is disastrous for Washington's peace diplomacy, which has always
been based on the principle that the city's final disposition should be
negotiated, rather than unilaterally determined through the creation of
new facts on the ground.

In his landmark Cairo speech to Muslims in June, Obama said he would
"personally pursue" a two-state solution "with all the patience and
dedication that the task requires." Today, Obama may feel that the
political price of standing up to Israel  which few US presidents have
done  is too high. It is high  but the risk that continued
acquiescence to Israel's policies in Jerusalem poses to American lives
(and those of Palestinians and Israelis) is now even higher. This is
Obama's chance to set a new, just course for the Middle East on a firmly
pro-American basis.

He can do this by linking US aid to Israel to its compliance with
international law in the city, by supporting action by the UN Security
Council to uphold international standards there, and in other ways.

The 250,000 remaining Palestinians of Jerusalem desperately need this
action. So does Obama's peace diplomacy.

And so, too, do the 200,000-plus US service members deployed today in
tense, majority-Muslim lands.

Helena Cobban, a longtime correspondent and columnist for the Monitor,
was recently appointed executive director of the Washington-based
Council for the National Interest.

--
Carol Moore in DC
http://carolmoore.net/
http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
http://youtube.com/carolmoore
http://secession.net
http://stopthewarnow.net
http://whatwouldgandhido.net
http://radicalbuttons.com

NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
the National Security Agency may have read this
email without judicial or legislative oversight
or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.

#7873 From: marc guttman <marc_guttman@...>
Date: Sat Nov 21, 2009 9:33 pm
Subject: Inflation is an indispensable means of militarism
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"One can say without exaggeration that inflation is an indispensable means of militarism. Without it, the repercussions of war on welfare become obvious much more quickly and penetratingly; war weariness would set in much earlier." -Ludvig von Mises

"It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking. When governments had to fund their own wars without a paper money machine to rely on, they economized on resources. They found diplomatic solutions to prevent war, and after they started a war they ended it as soon as possible." -Ron Paul

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/war-and-inflation.html

 

War and Inflation

by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.
by Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr.

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This talk was delivered at the Future of Freedom Foundation’s conference on "Restoring the Republic: Foreign Policy and Civil Liberties," on June 6, 2008, in Reston, Virginia.

The U.S. central bank, called the Federal Reserve, was created in 1913. No one promoted this institution with the slogan that it would make wars more likely and guarantee that nearly half a million Americans would die in battle in foreign lands, along with millions of foreign soldiers and civilians. No one pointed out that this institution would permit Americans to fund, without taxes, the destruction of cities abroad and overthrow governments at will. No one said that the central bank would make it possible for the U.S. to be at large-scale war in one of every four years for a full century. It was never pointed out that this institution would make it possible for the U.S. government to establish a global empire that would make Imperial Rome and Britain look benign by comparison.

You can line up 100 professional war historians and political scientists and talk about the twentieth century, and not one is likely to mention the role of the Fed in funding U.S. militarism. And yet it is true: the Fed is the institution that has created the money to fund the wars. In this role, it has solved a major problem that the state has confronted for all of human history. A state without money or a state that must tax its citizens to raise money for its wars is necessarily limited in its imperial ambitions. Keep in mind that this is only a problem for the state. It is not a problem for the people. The inability of the state to fund its unlimited ambitions is worth more for the people than every kind of legal check and balance. It is more valuable than all the constitutions ever devised.

The state has no wealth that is its own. It is not a profitable enterprise. Everything it possesses it must take from society in a zero-sum game. That usually means taxes, but taxes annoy people. They can destabilize the state and threaten its legitimacy. They inspire anger, revolt, and even revolution. Rather than risk that result, the state from the Middle Ages to the dawn of the central banking age was somewhat cautious in its global ambitions simply because it was cautious in its need to steal openly and directly from the people in order to pay its bills.

To be sure, it doesn't require a central bank for a state to choose inflation over taxes as a means of funding itself. All it really requires is a monopoly on the production of money. Once acquired, the monopoly on money production leads to a systematic process of depreciating the currency, whether by coin clipping or debasement or the introduction of paper money, which can then be printed without limit. The central bank assists in this process in a critical sense: it cartelizes the banking system as the essential conduit by which money is lent to the public and to the government itself. The banking system thereby becomes a primary funding agency to the state, and, in exchange for its services, the banking system is guaranteed against insolvency and business failure as it profits from inflation. If the goal of the state is the complete monopolization of money under an infinitely flexible paper-money system, there is no better path for the state than the creation of a central bank. This is the greatest achievement for the victory of power over liberty.

The connection between war and inflation, then, dates long before the creation of the Federal Reserve. In fact, in America, it dates to the colonial era, and to the founding itself. The fate of the Continental currency, printed massively during and after the Revolutionary war, for example, was a very bad omen for our future, and the whole country paid a very serious price. It was this experience that later led to the gold clause in the U.S. Constitution. Except for the Hamiltonians, that entire generation of political activists saw the unity of freedom and sound money, and regarded paper money as the fuel of tyranny.

Consider Thomas Paine: "Paper money is like dram-drinking, it relieves for a moment by deceitful sensation, but gradually diminishes the natural heat, and leaves the body worse than it found it. Were not this the case, and could money be made of paper at pleasure, every sovereign in Europe would be as rich as he pleased…. Paper money appears at first sight to be a great saving, or rather that it costs nothing; but it is the dearest money there is. The ease with which it is emitted by an assembly at first serves as a trap to catch people in at last. It operates as an anticipation of the next year's taxes."

But the wisdom of this generation, subverted by Lincoln, was finally thrown out during the Progressive Era. It was believed that an age of scientific public policy needed a scientific money machinery that could be controlled by powerful elites. The dawn of the age of central banking was also the dawn of the age of central planning, for there can be no government control over the nation's commercial life without first controlling the money. And once the state has the money and the banking system, its ambitions can be realized.

Before the creation of the Federal Reserve, the idea of American entry into the conflict that became World War I would have been inconceivable. In fact, it was a highly unpopular idea, and Woodrow Wilson himself campaigned on a platform that promised to keep us out of war. But with a money monopoly, all things seem possible. It was a mere four years after the Fed was invented under the guise of scientific policy planning that the real agenda became obvious. The Fed would fund the U.S. entry into World War I.

It was not only entry alone that was made possible. World War I was the first total war. It involved nearly the whole of the civilized world, and not only their governments but also the civilian populations, both as combatants and as targets. It has been described as the war that ended civilization in the 19th-century sense in which we understand that term. That is to say, it was the war that ended liberty as we knew it. What made it possible was the Federal Reserve. And not only the U.S. central bank; it was also its European counterparts. This was a war funded under the guise of scientific monetary policy.

Reflecting on the calamity of this war, Ludwig von Mises wrote in 1919 that "One can say without exaggeration that inflation is an indispensable means of militarism. Without it, the repercussions of war on welfare become obvious much more quickly and penetratingly; war weariness would set in much earlier."

There is always a price to be paid for funding war through the central bank. The postwar situation in America was a classic case. There was inflation. There were massive dislocations. There was recession or what was then called depression, a direct result of capital dislocation that masked itself as an economic boom, but which was then followed by a bust. The depression hit in 1920, but it is not a famous event in United States economic history. Why is that? Because the Federal Reserve had not yet acquired the tools to manufacture an attempt to save the economy. Instead, neither the Fed nor Congress nor the President did much of anything about it – a wholly praiseworthy response! As a result, the depression was brief and became a footnote to history. The same would have happened in 1930 had Hoover not attempted to use the government as the means of resuscitation.

Sadly, the easy recovery of 1920–1922 tempted the central bank to get back into the business of inflation, with the eventual result of a stock market boom that led to bust, then depression, and finally the destruction of the gold standard itself. FDR found that even fascist-style economic planning and inflation could not restore prosperity, so he turned to the ancient method of looking for a war to enter. Here is where the history of the United States and the Fed intersects with the tragic role of the German central bank.

The German government also funded its Great War through inflation. By war's end, money in circulation has risen fourfold. Prices were up 140%. Yet, on international exchange, the German mark had not suffered as much as one might expect. The German government looked at this with encouragement and promptly attempted to manufacture a complete economic recovery through inflation. Incredibly, by 1923, the mark had fallen to one-trillionth of its 1914 gold value. The U.S. dollar was then equal to 4.2 trillion marks. It was an example of currency destruction that remains legendary in the history of the world – all made possible by a central bank that obliged the government and monetized its war debt.

But did people blame the printing press? No. The popular explanation dealt directly with the Treaty of Versailles. It was the harsh peace imposed by the allies that had brought Germany to the brink of total destruction – or so it was believed. Mises himself had written a full book that he hoped would explain that Germany owed its suffering to war and socialism, not Versailles as such. He urged the German people to look at the real cause and establish free markets, lest imperial dictatorship be the next stage in political development. But he was ignored.

The result, we all know, was Hitler.

Turning to Russia, the untold truth about the Bolshevik revolution is that Lenin's greatest propaganda tool involved the sufferings by the Russian people during World War I. Men were drafted and killed at a horrific level. Lenin called this capitalist exploitation, based on his view that the war resulted from capitalist motives. In fact, it was a foreshadowing of the world that socialism would bring about, a world in which all people and all property are treated as means to statist ends. And what made the prolongation of the Russian role in World War I possible was an institution called the State Bank of the Russian Empire, the Russian version of the Fed.

The Russian war itself was funded through money creation, which also led to massive price increases and controls and shortages during the war. I'm not of the opinion, unlike the neocons, that the Russian monarchy was a particularly evil regime, but the temptation that the money machine provided the regime proved too inviting. It turned a relatively benign monarchy into a war machine. A country that had long been integrated into the worldwide division of labor and was under a gold standard became a killing machine. And as horrific and catastrophic as the war dead were for Russian morale, the inflation affected every last person and inspired massive unrest that led to the triumph of Communism.

At this juncture in history, we can see what central-banking had brought to us. It was not an end to the business cycle. It was not merely more liquidity for the banking system. It was not an end to bank runs and bank panics. It certainly wasn't scientific public policy. The world's major economies were being lorded over by money monopolies and the front men had become some of the worst despots in the history of the world. Now they were preparing to fight each other with all the resources they had at their disposal. The resources they did not have at their disposal they would pay for with their beloved machinery of central banking.

In wartime, the printing presses ran overtime, but with a totalitarian level of rationing, price controls, and all-round socialization of resources in the whole of the Western world, the result of inflation was not merely rising prices. It was vast suffering and shortages in Britain, Russia, Germany, Italy, France, Austria-Hungary, the US, and pretty much the entire planet.

So we can see here the amazing irony of central banking at work. The institution that was promoted by economists working with bankers, in the name of bringing rationality and science to bear on monetary matters, had given birth to the most evil political trends in the history of the world: Communism, socialism, fascism, Nazism, and the despotism of economic planning in the capitalist West. The story of central banking is one step removed from the story of atom bombs and death camps. There is a reason the state has been unrestrained in the last 100 years and that reason is the precise one that many people think of as a purely technical issue that is too complicated for mere mortals.

Fast-forward to the Iraq War, which has all the features of a conflict born of the power to print money. There was a time when the decision to go to war involved real debate in the U.S. House of Representatives. And what was this debate about? It was about resources, and the power to tax. But once the executive state was unhinged from the need to rely on tax dollars, and did not have to worry about finding willing buyers for its unbacked debt instruments, the political debate about war was silenced.

In the entire run-up to war, George Bush just assumed as a matter of policy that it was his decision alone whether to invade Iraq. The objections by Ron Paul and some other members of Congress and vast numbers of the American population, was reduced to little more than white noise in the background. Imagine if he had to raise the money for the war through taxes. It never would have happened. But he didn't have to. He knew the money would be there. So despite a $200 billion deficit, a $9 trillion debt, $5 trillion in outstanding debt instruments held by the public, a federal budget of $3 trillion, and falling tax receipts in 2001, Bush contemplated a war that has cost $525 billion dollars, or $4,681 per household. Imagine if he had gone to the American people to request that. What would have happened? I think we know the answer to that question. And those are government figures; the actual cost of this war will be far higher—perhaps $20,000 per household.

Now, when left-liberals talk about these figures, they like to compare them with what the state might have done with these resources in terms of funding health care, public schools, head-start centers, or food stamps. This is a mistake because it demonstrates that the left isn't really providing an alternative to the right. It merely has a different set of priorities in how it would use the resources raised by the inflation machine. It's true that public schools are less costly in terms of lives and property than war itself. But the inflation-funded welfare state also has a corrosive effect on society. The pipe dream that the inflation monster can be used to promote good instead of evil illustrates a certain naïveté about the nature of the state itself. If the state has the power and is asked to choose between doing good and waging war, what will it choose? Certainly in the American context the choice has always been for war.

It is equally naïve for the right to talk about restraining the government while wishing for global war. So long as the state has unlimited access to the printing press, it can ignore the pleas of ideological groups concerning how the money will be raised. It is also very silly for the right to believe that it can have its wars, its militarism, its nationalism and belligerence, without depending on the power of the Federal Reserve. This institution is the very mechanism by which the dreams of both the fanatical right and the fanatical left come true.

The effect of the money machine goes well beyond funding undesirable government programs. The Fed creates financial bubbles that lead to economic dislocation. Think of the technology bubble of the late 1990s or the housing bubble. Or the boom that preceded the current bust. These are all a result of the monopolization of money.

These days, the American consumer has been hit very hard with rising prices in oil, clothing, food, and much else. For the first time in decades, people are feeling this and feeling it hard. And just as in every other inflation in world history, people are looking for the culprit and finding all the wrong ones. They believe it is the oil companies who are gouging us, or that foreign oil dealers are restricting supply, or that gas station owners are abusing a crisis to profit at our expense.

I wouldn't entirely rule out the possibility that price controls are around the corner. When Nixon imposed them in 1971, neither he nor his advisors believed that they would actually result in controlling inflation. Rather, the purpose was to redirect the target of public anger from the government and its bank over to retailers, who would become scapegoats. In this sense, price controls do work. They make people believe that the government is trying to lower prices while the private sector is attempting to raise them. This is the real political dynamic at work with price controls.

The question is whether you will be taken in by these tactics. It is long past time for us to take note that the cause of the real trouble here is not the manufacturers or even the war as such but the agency that has been granted a legal right to counterfeit at will and lower the value of the currency while fueling every manner of statist scheme, whether welfare or warfare. We need to look at the Fed and say: this is the enemy.

Note that the Federal Reserve is not a political party. It is not a recognized interest group. It is not a famed lobby in Washington. It is not really even a sector of public opinion. It seems completely shielded off from vigorous public debate. If we truly believe in liberty and decry the leviathan state, this situation cannot be tolerated.

I say to the sincere right, if you really want to limit the state, you will have to give up your dreams of remaking the world at the point of a gun. Wars and limited government are impossible. Moreover, you must stop ignoring the role of monetary policy. It is a technical subject, to be sure, but one that we must all look into and understand if we expect to restore something that resembles the American liberty of the founders.

I say to the sincere left, if you really want to stop war and stop the spying state, and put an end to the persecution of political dissidents and the Guantánamo camps for foreign peoples, and put a stop to the culture of nationalism and militarism, you must join us in turning attention to the role of monetary policy. The printing presses must be unplugged. It's true that this will also hit programs that are beloved by the left, such as socialized health care and federalized education programs. But so long as you expect the state to fund your dreams, you cannot expect that the state will not also fund the dreams of people you hate.

And let me say a few words to libertarians, who dream of a world with limited government under the rule of law, a world in which free enterprise reigns and where the state has no power to interfere in our lives so long as we behave peacefully. It is completely absurd to believe that this can be achieved without fundamental monetary reform. And yet, until the most recent Ron Paul campaign, and aside from Murray Rothbard and the 26-year-long work of the Mises Institute, I don't recall that libertarians themselves have cared much about this issue at all.

In 1983, the Mises Institute held a large academic conference on the gold standard, and we held it in Washington, D.C. (There were scholarly papers and Ron Paul debated a Fed governor. Ron won.) Even back then, I recall that D.C. libertarians ridiculed us for holding such a meeting to talk about the Fed and its replacement with sound money. They said that this would make the Mises Institute look ridiculous, that we would be tarred with the brush of gold bugs and crazies. We did it anyway. And all these years later, the book that came out of that conference remains a main source for understanding the role of money in the advance of despotism or resistance to it, and a blueprint for the future.

Of course the Austrian tradition fought paper money and central banking from the beginning. Menger was an advocate of the gold standard. Böhm-Bawerk actually established it as finance minister to the Habsburg monarchy. Mises's book on the topic from 1912 was the first to show the role of money in the business cycle, and he issued dire warnings about central banking. Hayek wrote powerfully against the abandonment of gold in the 1930s. Hazlitt warned of the inevitable breakdown of Bretton Woods, and advocated a real gold standard instead. And Rothbard was a champion of sound money and the greatest enemy the Fed has ever had. But generally, I've long detected a tendency in libertarian circles to ignore this issue, in part for precisely the reasons cited above: it is not respectable.

Well, I will tell you why this issue is not considered respectable: it is the most important priority of the state to keep its money machine hidden behind a curtain. Anyone who dares pull the curtain back is accused of every manner of intellectual crime. This is precisely the reason we must talk about it at every occasion. We must end the conspiracy of silence on this issue.

I was intrigued at how Ron Paul, during his campaign, would constantly bring up the subject. Most politicians are out to play up to their audiences, so they say things that people want to hear. I promise you that early in the campaign, no one wanted to hear him talk about the Federal Reserve. But he did it anyway. He worked to educate his audiences about the need for monetary reform. And it worked. For the first time in my life, there is a large and very public movement in this country to take this topic seriously.

Monetary economist Joseph Salerno was called the other day by C-Span, which wanted to interview him on television on the need to restore gold as the basis of our currency. As I watched this excellent interview, I was struck by what a great triumph it truly is for liberty that this topic is again part of the national debate. In the 19th century, this was a topic on everybody's minds. It can be again today, provided we do not eschew the truth in the formation of our message.

It might be said that advocating privatization is politically unrealistic, and therefore a waste of time. What's more, we might say that by continuing to harp on the issue, we only marginalize ourselves, proving that we are on the fringe. I submit that there is no better way to ensure that an issue will always be off the table than to stop talking about it.

Far from being an arcane and anachronistic issue, then, the gold standard and the issues it raises gets right to the heart of the current debate concerning the future of war and the world economy. Why do the government and its partisans dislike the gold standard? It removes the discretionary power of the Fed by placing severe limits on the ability of the central bank to inflate the money supply. Without that discretionary power, the government has far fewer tools of central planning at its disposal. Government can regulate, which is a function of the police power. It can tax, which involves taking people's property. And it can spend, which means redistributing other people's property. But its activities in the financial area are radically curbed.

Think of your local and state governments. They tax and spend. They manipulate and intervene. As with all governments from the beginning of time, they generally retard social progress and muck things up as much as possible. What they do not do, however, is wage massive global wars, run huge deficits, accumulate trillions in debt, reduce the value of money, bail out foreign governments, provide endless credits to failing enterprises, administer hugely expensive and destructive social insurance schemes, or bring about immense swings in business activity.

State and local governments are awful and they must be relentlessly checked, but they are not anything like the threat of the federal government. Neither are they as arrogant and convinced of their own infallibility and indispensability. They lack the aura of invincibility that the central government enjoys.

It is the central bank, and only the central bank, that works as the government's money machine, and this makes all the difference. Now, it is not impossible that a central bank can exist alongside a gold standard, a lender of last resort that avoids the temptation to destroy that which restrains it. In the same way, it is possible for someone with an insatiable appetite for wine to sit at a banquet table of delicious vintages and not take a sip.

Let's just say that the existence of a central bank introduces an occasion of sin for the government. That is why under the best gold standard, there would be no central bank, gold coins would circulate as freely as their substitutes, and rules against fraud and theft would prohibit banks from pyramiding credit on top of demand deposits. So long as we are constructing the perfect system, all coinage would be private. Banks would be treated as businesses, no special privileges, no promises of bailout, no subsidized insurance, and no connection to government at any level.

This is the free-market system of monetary management, which means turning over the institution of money entirely to the market economy. As with any institution in a free society, it is not imposed from above, and dictated by a group of experts, but is the de facto result that comes about in a society that consistently respects private-property rights, encourages enterprise, and promotes peace.

It comes down to this. If you hate war, oppose the Fed. If you hate violations of your liberties, oppose the Fed. If you want to restrain despotism, restrain the Fed. If you want to secure freedom for yourself and your descendants, abolish the Fed.

June 9, 2008

Llewellyn H. Rockwell, Jr. [send him mail] is founder and president of the Ludwig von Mises Institute in Auburn, Alabama, editor of LewRockwell.com, and author of Speaking of Liberty.

Copyright © 2008 LewRockwell.com

Lew Rockwell Archives





#7872 From: marc guttman <marc_guttman@...>
Date: Sat Nov 14, 2009 3:50 am
Subject: Heart-breaking
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#7871 From: Carol Moore in DC <fightpatriarchy@...>
Date: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:45 pm
Subject: Mullen: Nuclear Iran an Existential Threat to Israel
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Go to article for a number of links to original articles.
http://news.antiwar.com/2009/11/08/mullen-nuclear-iran-an-existential-threat-to-\
israel/

Mullen: Nuclear Iran an Existential Threat to Israel
Admiral Open to US Attack, Concedes War Would Be Incredibly Destabilizing
by Jason Ditz, November 08, 2009

Speaking today at the National Press Club, Joint Chiefs of Staff
Chairman Admiral Michael Mullen declared that its very clear to me
that a nuclear weapon in Iran is an existential threat to Israel.

Adm. Mullen has repeatedly met with Israels military chief Gen.
Ashkenazi, and says foiling Irans nuclear program is the number one
priority for Israel. This has been underscored in recent days as Israel
has repeatedly threatened to attack Iran.

But while Admiral Mullen said he still wanted President Obama to
continue with diplomacy, he was fully prepared to see the US attack Iran
to prevent a nuclear Iran from undermining the stability of the Middle
East. At the same time, Mullen admitted that attacking Iran itself
would also be incredibly destabilizing.

Though Western officials have repeatedly issued warnings about Irans
nuclear program, the IAEA has repeatedly certified that none of Irans
uranium has been enriched to anywhere near weapons-grade level and that
none of it is being diverted to anything but civilian use.

#7870 From: Carol Moore in DC <liberty@...>
Date: Sun Nov 8, 2009 3:29 pm
Subject: Army chief: Avoid speculation about Hasan's faith
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http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hDlRkRffovJlX8OT05h89h3zfgWwD9\
BRD07G3
Army chief: Avoid speculation about Hasan's faith

(AP)  1 hour ago

WASHINGTON  The Army chief of staff says it's important for the country
not to get caught up in speculation about the Muslim faith of the
alleged Fort Hood gunman.

Gen. George Casey says he's instructed his commanders to be on the
lookout for that reaction to the killings at the Texas post.

He says focusing on the Islamic roots of the suspected shooter, Maj.
Nidal Malik Hasan (nih-DAHL' mah-LEEK' hah-SAHN'), could "heighten the
backlash" against all Muslims in the military.

Casey says diversity in the military "gives us strength."

Casey declined to answer questions about the investigation into the
shooting, but said evidence to this point shows that Hasan acted alone.
He toured Fort Hood on Friday with Army Secretary John McHugh.

Casey appeared on ABC's "This Week" and CNN's "State of the Union."

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information.
AP's earlier story is below.

WASHINGTON (AP)  The Army chief of staff says it's important for the
country not to get caught up in speculation about the Muslim faith of
the alleged Fort Hood gunman.

Gen. George Casey says focusing on the Islamic roots of Maj. Nidal Malik
Hasan (nih-DAHL' mah-LEEK' hah-SAHN') could "heighten the backlash"
against all Muslims in the military.

Casey says diversity in the military "gives us strength."

Casey declined to answer questions on ABC's "This Week" about the
investigation into the shooting, but said evidence to this point shows
that Hasan acted alone.

--
Carol Moore in DC
http://carolmoore.net/
http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
http://youtube.com/carolmoore
http://secession.net
http://stopthewarnow.net
http://whatwouldgandhido.net
http://radicalbuttons.com

NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
the National Security Agency may have read this
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or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.

#7869 From: marc guttman <marc_guttman@...>
Date: Sun Nov 8, 2009 2:21 pm
Subject: Published Commentary
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TheDay.com logo

Good men have to speak up

By MARC GUTTMAN

The Day

Published 11/08/2009 12:00 AM
Updated 11/08/2009 01:35 AM
PABLO MARTINEZ MONSIVAIS/ASSOCIATED PRESS
President Barack Obama salutes as an Army team carries the transfer case containing the remains of Sgt. Dale R. Griffin of Terre Haute, Ind., during a transfer at Dover Air Force Base on Oct. 29. U.S. troops have continued to die in overseas wars during the Obama administration.
 
 
 

I recently saw a bumper sticker I liked, "If Congress represents me, then I must be really evil." If evil is defined as policies that unjustly burden, restrict, or harm innocent people and unfairly benefit other persons then, despite all good intentions, many of our governments' laws are evil.

I did not vote for either Barack Obama or John McCain. There seemed no significant difference between them on either domestic or foreign policy issues. Unfortunately, the election was likely going to be won by one of them and between the two, I favored Obama.

I had hope that Obama would intervene less overseas. In the first few months of his presidency, Obama condemned torture and detention without due process, and talked less tough on our overseas ambitions. I conceded to some of my friends who had supported him that Obama was off to a good start.

Soon enough though the rhetoric proved hollow. President Obama's policies are as harmful as his predecessor's were to individual rights and the security of ourselves and the unfortunate communities overseas we harm. He has continued George Bush's policy of detaining prisoners without due process and of sending our military prisoners to other countries to be tortured by them for us. He supports extending the Patriot Act, maintains the Military Commissions Act, and has continued warrantless spying programs. These policies infringe on our rights to due process and to be secure against unreasonable searches and seizures.

Obama has continued to war in Iraq and to build large military bases there, guaranteeing our long-term occupation. He has bombed Pakistanis, has escalated the war in Afghanistan, and has worsened the situation with Iran by misinforming the world that Iran is working on a secret nuclear program despite knowing that Iran had already reported the program to International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors. It now appears we are on the verge of placing more sanctions on Iran's innocent citizens. We are harming innocent people and creating more enemies. That Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize suggests that George Orwell's doublespeak in "1984" is now real, "War is Peace."

Obama has also continued Bush's policy of bailouts with billions of taxpayer dollars given to private organizations, socializing private business losses. The economists at the Ludwig von Mises Institute have done an exceptional job explaining why these "stimulus" policies will inevitably cause further harm to our prosperity. Obama has overseen the printing of trillions in fiat currency, which will impoverish most everyone in the coming years. He has also unilaterally placed unfair tariffs on Chinese tires, initiating a harmful trade war just as our economy is weakest.

Many people still support Obama despite strongly disliking these same policies under the previous president. Count me amongst the disappointed. I've been down this road before. In 2000, I had false hope that Bush would not continue Clinton's nation-building policies and would not explode the scope of government intervention in our lives. I had not voted for Bush or Al Gore that year either.

The executive branch has accumulated so much power over the years that we almost have an elected temporary king. Members of Congress, though still culpable, long ago abandoned their oaths and relinquished their responsibilities.

But, there is hope for real change. Governments derive their power from the consent of the governed. Many of the participants who spawned the now well-known nationwide tea parties largely reject the major political parties, despite the recent efforts of neoconservatives to co-opt the movement.

Many demonstrators disapprove of decades of federal government fiscal irresponsibility and unfair, intrusive policies that have impoverished us. They oppose our foreign military misadventures. They oppose corporate-government collusion, bailouts, special interest subsidies, excessive spending, gross monetary expansions that create the insidious inflation tax, and deficit spending that will leave a crushing debt to future generations.

Like the owner of that bumper sticker, many dislike being fleeced to fund what they consider evil. I prefer not to be a detractor, but it's been rightly proclaimed that all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Marc Guttman is an emergency physician and vice chairman of the Libertarian Party of Connecticut. He lives in East Lyme. His Web site is www.whyliberty.com.



#7868 From: Carol Moore in DC <fightpatriarchy@...>
Date: Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:27 pm
Subject: Iran Deal on Brink of Collapse as West Condemns Compromise
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Iran Deal on Brink of Collapse as West Condemns Compromise

Europeans Uninterested in Deal Unless Iran Exports Most of Its Uranium

by Jason Ditz, October 29, 2009

Just a few hours after the Iranian government submitted a compromise proposal on the third party uranium enrichment deal with the P5+1, European diplomats quickly, and angrily, rejected it.

This is completely unacceptable,” one EU diplomat declared, saying the union was in the process of penning its common response, a rejection that may spell the end to the promising negotiations that have gone on all month.

In September, Iran proposed a system of third party enrichment which would allow the nation to create medical isotopes without having to enrich any uranium to levels higher than needed for its energy generation program. After intense negotiation the draft agreement had Iran exporting much of its existing low-enriched stockpile to Russia and eventually France.

The “eventually France” part was a stalling point for Iran however, as France had previously reneged on Uranium Hexafluoride shipments to them and Iranian MPs expressed concern that the French might simply keep the uranium once it got to them.

This led Iran to propose today’s compromise deal, the chief aspect of which was that they would ship the uranium out in stages rather than all at once. This would have limited the potential losses to their stockpile in the event the deal fell apart.

But for Europeans, getting Iran to hand over the bulk of its uranium all at once was the best part of the deal, and they appear uninterested in continuing negotiations without that, which will likely also make Iran all the more suspicious that France will ever give back the uranium once they get their hands on it.

Iran’s current uranium is enriched to 3.8%, but Western officials have speculated that if they chose to, the nation might be able to further enrich this uranium to the level needed for weaponization, and eventually could produce a single atomic bomb. This would require a lot of luck on Iran’s part, and since their enrichment facilities are under IAEA surveillance would also require them to make their intentions obvious before they could even begin the mad dash for a bomb.

-- Carol Moore in DC
http://carolmoore.net/
http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
http://youtube.com/carolmoore
http://secession.net
http://stopthewarnow.net
http://whatwouldgandhido.net
http://radicalbuttons.com
NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
the National Security Agency may have read this
email without judicial or legislative oversight or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.

#7867 From: marc guttman <marc_guttman@...>
Date: Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:32 am
Subject: Scott Horton Interviews Charles Peña
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Charles Peña does an excellent job describing a realistic foreign policy. Great interview.  -Marc
 
http://antiwar.com/radio/2009/10/14/charles-pena/
 
 

Scott Horton Interviews Charles Peña

Scott Horton, October 14, 2009

Charles Peña, author of Winning the Un-War: A New Strategy for the War on Terrorism, discusses the difficult task of preventing domestic terrorism in a free society, the unwise U.S. decision to treat 9/11 as a paradigm-shifting existential threat, the Obama administration’s change in Iran strategy (but not policy) and how dubious terrorism prosecutions make the FBI even less trustworthy.

MP3 here. (40:44)

Charles V. Peña is Senior Fellow at the Independent Institute as well as a senior fellow with the Coalition for a Realistic Foreign Policy, and an adviser on the Straus Military Reform Project. Mr. Peña has been senior fellow with the George Washington University Homeland Security Policy Institute and Foreign Policy Advisor for the 2008 Ron Paul Presidential Campaign.

He is the author of the book Winning the Un-War: A New Strategy for the War on Terrorism, co-author of The Search for WMD: Non-Proliferation, Intelligence and Pre-emption in the New Security Environment, and co-author of Exiting Iraq: Why the U.S. Must End the Military Occupation and Renew the War against Al Qaeda. Peña is currently an analyst for MSNBC television and has been an analyst for Global TV (Canada) and Channel One News (a PRIMEDIA Inc. company) during the Iraq war.




#7866 From: Carol Moore in DC <fightpatriarchy@...>
Date: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:07 pm
Subject: Articles: Draft Iran-P5+1 agreement raises hopes, fears]
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject:  [ufpj-iran] FT, WSJ, WP, LAT, H: Draft Iran-P5+1 agreement
raises hopes, fears
Date:  Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:25:01 -0700






1.

Iran

IRAN NUCLEAR TALKS END AMID DOUBTS ON DEAL
By James Blitz

Financial Times (London)
October 21, 2009 -- 1448, updaged 2355 (1555 PDT -- Oct. 22, 0323 Tehran
time)

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8fabc52c-be3e-11de-9195-00144feab49a.html

VIENNA -- Western diplomats expressed serious doubts on Wednesday that
Tehran would sign up to an agreement to reduce its stockpile of enriched
uranium.

As two days of talks with Iran over its nuclear program ended in Vienna
Mohamed ElBaradei, director-general of the International Atomic Energy
Agency, said Tehran had agreed  [to] a draft proposal under which it
would send most of its low-enriched uranium abroad for processing.

However, the draft must be approved by Iran and the three other states
involved in the Vienna talks -- the U.S., France, and Russia -- by
Friday.  If Tehran does not agree to the proposal, it is likely to be
withdrawn, dealing a blow to U.S. efforts to engage with Iran over its
nuclear program.

The draft text says Iran should cut its stockpile of low-enriched
uranium by about 85 per cent by the end of this year, transferring the
fuel to France and Russia.  Both those countries, in turn, would give
Iran fuel that could be used to create medical isotopes for cancer
treatment.

Irans delegation chief said the Vienna talks had been constructive but
did not say whether the Iranian leadership would embrace the draft accord.

We are fully co-operating, said Ali Asghar Soltanieh, Irans IAEA
ambassador.

[But] we have to thoroughly study this text and . . . come back and
reflect our opinion and suggestions or comments in order to have an
amicable solution at the end of the day.

However, Western diplomats said throughout the talks in Vienna, Iran had
repeatedly blocked the suggestion that it should remove the fuel at the
speed and in the quantities being demanded by the U.S. and France.

Iran came to the talks highly resistant to the offer, a Western
diplomat told the *Financial Times*.  Its delegation came up with a
series of proposals about how it might transfer less of the fuel than
the U.S. and France are proposing or about removing it at a later date
or keeping it in Iran.

They were given lots of opportunities to come back and change their
position but refused to do so.

The same diplomat was pessimistic that Iran would accept the proposal
drafted by the IAEA.

They have effectively been rejecting the proposal for the last two days
in Vienna, said the diplomat.  It is very hard to imagine that within
48 hours they will turn round and accept it.

One European official said:  The last two days in Vienna have been
something of a reality check for Obamas officials on just how difficult
and intransigent Iran really is.

The U.S. and its allies believe that acceptance by Iran of a deal to
ship most of its stock of low-enriched uranium out of the country by the
end of the year would be a confidence-building measure.

Western diplomats have argued that the move would delay the time by
which Iran could manufacture a nuclear bomb.

That in turn would give world powers more time to negotiate with Iran,
which has always said its program is for peaceful purposes, rather than
impose fresh international sanctions.

However, the mood in the U.S. and other Western capitals after the
Vienna talks is likely to be more gloomy.  If Iran rejects the offer on
Friday, pressure is likely to build in the U.S., France, and Britain for
the imposition of a fresh round of sanctions this year.

After a meeting with Iran on October 1, the U.S. and its allies said
they were looking to Tehran to take three moves to build confidence over
its nuclear program:  to give the IAEA access to its second enrichment
plant at Qom, which will happen on Sunday; to get progress on the
medical isotopes issue in Vienna; and to have a further meeting with
Irans chief negotiator next week to discuss the future of the nuclear
program.

However, it is unclear whether political directors from the six world
powers that negotiate with Iran over its nuclear program -- Britain,
France, the U.S., Russia, China, and Germany -- will meet Iran next
Wednesday in Geneva.  A representative of one of the Western powers said
there was no sign Iran was willing to do so.

2.

Asia news

IRAN URANIUM DEAL APPEARS CLOSE
By David Crawford

Wall Street Journal
October 22, 2009

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125616228904799907.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

VIENNA -- Iran edged toward a landmark agreement with the U.S. and other
powers that would curb its nuclear program, but it remained unclear
whether Tehran's leadership would give the deal its final blessing.

Iran has until Friday to sign the proposed agreement that would require
it to export most of the uranium it holds that could be used to produce
a nuclear bomb.  Iranian diplomats and delegations from the U.S.,
Russia, and France hashed out the deal this week over three days of
often contentious talks at the United Nations' International Atomic
Energy Agency.

Iran's lead representative to the talks, Ali Asghar Soltanieh, said the
draft agreement was "on the right track," but cautioned that his
country's leadership had yet to endorse it.  "We have to thoroughly
study this text," he said.

"The door is open to a better future for Iran, but the process of
engagement cannot be open-ended," said Secretary of State Hillary
Clinton.  "We are not prepared to talk just for the sake of talking."

Under the proposed deal, Iran would ship most of its nuclear fuel to
Russia, where it would be processed for use in a medical research
reactor.  The amount, about 1,200 kilograms, or 2,600 pounds, of
low-enriched uranium, is significant because it is more than the 1,000
kilograms of low-enriched uranium to build a bomb.  The U.S., Israel,
and other nations have said that Tehran will be capable of building a
nuclear weapon by 2015.

French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner indicated he would endorse the
deal as long as Iran stuck to exporting the specified amount, according
to wire reports.  The proposed agreement doesn't prevent Iran from
enriching uranium, a capability Iranian officials have made clear they
don't intend to relinquish.

Nuclear analysts say that it would take Iran only a year, and possibly
less time, to replenish the amount of low-enriched uranium it would send
to Russia under the plan.

Despite such issues, some Western officials believe any agreement that
delays Iran's ability to make a bomb would mark an important first step
toward reining in Tehran's nuclear ambitions.

A deal would also vindicate the Obama administration's policy of
engaging with Iran on its nuclear program.  U.S. officials held a rare
round of bilateral talks with the Iranian delegation Tuesday on the
sidelines of the IAEA meeting.

IAEA Director General Mohamed ElBaradei, the host of the Vienna talks,
said he hoped an agreement would "complete normalization of Iran's
relations with the international community."

The negotiations looked as though they might fail earlier in the week
after Iran said it didn't want France to participate or be part of any
agreement.  Iranian officials, apparently upset over recent critical
statements by French President Nicolas Sarkozy about Iran, went as far
as to say that they didn't trust the French.  Under the proposed
framework, Iran's primary contract would be with Russia, which would be
allowed to farm out some of the processing work on the Iranian uranium
to France and other countries.

The U.S., France, and Russia also have to give the proposal final
approval by Friday, a step viewed as a formality, before it can be
implemented.

Meanwhile, Iranian police arrested suspects in a suicide bombing on
Sunday that killed more than 40 people including 15 members of the
Revolutionary Guard, Iran's police chief told the Associated Press.

Gen. Esmaeil Ahmadi Moghadam blamed the Sunni rebel group Jundallah, or
Soldiers of God, which claims to represent the Baluchi ethnic minority.
Jundallah posted a statement on its Web site saying that the arrested
were innocent.  Only the suicide bomber was guilty, it said.

--Write to David Crawford at david.crawford@...
<mailto:david.crawford@...>

3.

Editorial pages

Editorials

DETENTE ON ICE

** Does an Iran that sentences an innocent American scholar to prison
really want 'engagement'? **

Washington Post
October 22, 2009

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/21/AR2009102103646.\
html

There were hints of progress in the nuclear talks with Iran on Wednesday
as Iranian negotiators in Vienna accepted for consideration a plan under
which Iran would ship most of its current stockpile of enriched uranium
out of the country.  But there also was a contrary signal from Tehran
about the desire of its extremist regime for dtente with the West.
That was the reported sentencing of Iranian-American academic Kian
Tajbakhsh to 15 years in prison on a blatantly bogus charge of espionage.

Mr. Tajbakhsh, a well-known expert on urban planning, had no role in the
protests that erupted after Iran's fraudulent presidential election in
June.  He told friends that he was "keeping his head down."  In fact he
was preparing to begin a teaching appointment at Columbia University
this fall.  But Mr. Tajbakhsh, who was educated in Britain and the
United States but has lived in Iran since 1999, was a convenient pawn
for the regime's hard-liners.  President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his
supporters in Iran's Revolutionary Guard are trying to prove that the
vast opposition movement against them is the product of a conspiracy by
Western intelligence agencies and nongovernmental organizations such as
the Open Society Institute, for which Mr. Tajbakhsh once worked as an
adviser.

The arrest and trial of Mr. Tajbakhsh and more than 140 other people,
including a number of opposition leaders, constitute a key element in
the coup that the regime's hard-liners have staged against more moderate
elements -- including those who genuinely favor rapprochement with the
West.  The tactical concessions that Mr. Ahmadinejad's government is
hinting at in Vienna complement the crackdown:  By striking deals with
Western leaders, the ruling clique seeks to legitimize itself at home.
If it wins the domestic power struggle, there is no chance that it will
retreat from its attempt to acquire nuclear weapons or to gain influence
over the Middle East through terrorism and militant groups such as
Hezbollah and Hamas.

The Obama administration and other Western governments say that they are
cognizant of the danger of strengthening Mr. Ahmadinejad and his
superior, supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.  But they have been
cautious about following the advice of Iranians such as Nobel Peace
prize winner Shirin Ebadi, who is urging the administration to talk as
much about the treatment of people such as Mr. Tajbakhsh as it does
about Iran's nuclear program.  To be sure, White House and State
Department spokesmen protested Mr. Tajbakhsh's sentence; the White House
statement said that he "embodies what is possible between our two
countries."  We hope that President Obama himself will see fit to speak
up about Mr. Tajbakhsh's case and others like it.  The fact that Tehran
is imprisoning the very people capable of building bridges between Iran
and the United States is a clear message to the president about how the
regime regards his "engagement" policy.

4.

World

Asia

Iran

U.S., IRAN MOVE CLOSER TO A NUCLEAR DEAL
By Borzou Daragahi

Los Angeles Times
October 22, 2009

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-us-iran22-2009oct22,0,455314\
4.story

[PHOTO (http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2009-10/49993106.jpg)
CAPTION: Iran's ambassador to the International Atomic Energy Agency,
Ali Asghar Soltanieh, discusses the ongoing talks in Vienna with France,
Russia, the U.S. and the IAEA. He says his nation is willing to send
fissile material abroad to be processed for medical purposes back in Iran.]

BEIRUT -- Deft diplomacy and regional security woes are driving Tehran
and Washington toward a deal on Iran's nuclear program, experts say,
illustrated by movement Wednesday in talks to transfer most of the
Islamic Republic's fissile material abroad to be processed for medical uses.

For three decades, Iran and the U.S. have been locked in a frustrating
diplomatic flirtation.  When one felt strong enough to offer a deal, the
other felt too weak to accept.

This time may ultimately prove to be no different.  But Iran now is
facing its greatest domestic political challenge in decades, unrest in
Pakistan and Afghanistan is seeping across its borders, and the Obama
administration is committed to creative diplomacy to resolve the standoff.

In talks in Vienna on Wednesday, Iranian, American, Russian, and French
diplomats agreed to a proposal by the U.N. nuclear monitor, the
International Atomic Energy Agency, or IAEA, to transfer most of Iran's
stockpile of nuclear material to Russia and France to be further
processed for a Tehran reactor used for medical purposes.

The deal, which must be signed by officials in capitals by Friday, could
fall apart if one party refuses or insists on eleventh-hour tinkering.

Modest in scope, the accord fails to address many of the West's
suspicions about Iran's nuclear program, including its continued
production of about 7 pounds of enriched uranium a day in defiance of
the United Nations Security Council, the discovery of documents that
purport to show Iran engaged in experiments consistent with a
clandestine atomic weapons program, or the recently revealed secret
enrichment facility at a Revolutionary Guard base near Qom.

It also does not address the possibility that Iran has built a secret
parallel program not subject to international scrutiny.

But the proposal would buy the U.S. and its allies a year's time by
reducing Iran's stockpile below the threshold necessary to produce a
nuclear bomb.  It also is an example of a scenario often touted by
security experts and diplomats:  Allow Iran to retain its coveted
ability to enrich uranium while building in safeguards that the material
would not be diverted to produce weapons.

The deal could serve as a framework for a broader accord on Iran's
nuclear program and possible rapprochement on other issues.

"Everybody who participated at the meeting was trying to help, trying to
look to the future and not to the past, trying to heal the wounds that
existed for many, many years," IAEA chief Mohamed ElBaradei told
reporters in Vienna.

"I very much hope that people see the big picture, see that this
agreement could open the way for a complete normalization of relations
between Iran and the international community," said ElBaradei, a Nobel
Peace Prize winner who steps down Nov. 30 after 12 years in his post.

U.S. officials view the draft agreement as a "very positive step," said
Ian Kelly, a State Department spokesman.  But he added that the
administration was circulating it widely within the government to make
sure there were no objections.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, in a speech in Washington,
said the U.S. was open to better relations with Iran but that the Obama
administration would not wait forever.

"We are not prepared to talk just for the sake of talking," she said.
"We appear to have made a constructive beginning.  But that needs to be
followed up by constructive actions."

U.S. attempts to reach out to Iran during the Reagan, Clinton, and
George W. Bush administrations failed to bear fruit.

The Obama administration came into office pledging to actively pursue
diplomacy with Iran.  Experts say it has managed to back Tehran into a
corner without making it feel threatened.  Using the IAEA's mandate to
help states gain access to peaceful nuclear technology as a tool to
reduce Iran's stockpile of enriched uranium lets both Iran and the West
walk away winners.

"I think that [President] Obama and his European allies have played
their hand well in using the Qom revelation to their advantage and
taking advantage of Iran's various vulnerabilities to encourage it to
find a way forward," said Mark Fitzpatrick, a nonproliferation expert
and former U.S. diplomat now at the International Institute for
Strategic Studies in London.  "The major powers have done this in a way
that gives Iran a face-saving way to make some concessions."

But the medical reactor deal also implicitly legitimizes Iran's
enrichment of uranium.  If that is Iran's goal, it could be an ideal
time for Tehran to strike a deal.

"We are a master of the enrichment technology," said Iran's envoy to the
IAEA, Ali Asghar Soltanieh.  "But we have decided that we will receive
the fuel from the potential suppliers which are willing to do so."

The deal also represents a concession by Iran, which has not wanted to
rely on outside suppliers for its nuclear material because of
difficulties obtaining Russian fuel rods for its light-water nuclear
power plant in Bushehr.

Experts say Iran is in its most vulnerable position in years.
Revelation of the existence of the Qom facility has weakened it
diplomatically and led to intense pressure that may force it to open its
atomic facilities to closer scrutiny.

Scores have been killed in ethnic and sectarian violence on Iran's
frontiers, including a bombing Sunday that killed at least 41.  Iran is
especially concerned about the chaos in Pakistan and Afghanistan
spilling across its eastern border.

Most important, political unrest over the disputed June 12 reelection of
President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad continues in the capital and other major
cities.  Despite a crackdown that has included imprisonments, school
expulsions, and widespread allegations of prisoner abuse, the popular
movement sparked by the election dispute remains alive, especially on
campuses.  The opposition is preparing for another major rally on Nov. 4.

This week, opposition leader and presidential runner-up Mir Hossein
Mousavi released his first YouTube interview, in which he called on
supporters to remain steadfast.

"Because the government has lost so much political capital with its own
citizenry, it's looking at nuclear negotiation to get past the events of
last summer," said Mehrzad Boroujerdi, director of Middle East studies
at Syracuse University.

Iran frequently seeks to alter the terms of a deal even after signing
on, as Britain, France and Germany learned during negotiations this
decade.  On the other hand, talks sometimes produce strong results, as
when Iran suspended uranium enrichment for two years before Ahmadinejad
became president.

"Negotiation with Iran will not be pleasant, but history shows it can
get somewhere," said Jim Walsh, a nonproliferation and security expert
at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who has visited Iran half
a dozen times in recent years.

Iran's hard-liners could perceive a deal as a threat to their clout and
try to sabotage it.

"The risk is that by Friday . . . hard-liners such as the newspaper
*Kayhan* and [Guardian Council chief] Ahmad Jannati will make a hue and
cry about the compromises and prevent Dr. Soltanieh from signing," said
Ahmad Shirzad, a Tehran nuclear expert and opposition supporter.  "In
principle, the reformists regard the nuclear issue as one of national
interests.  The hard-liners consider it as ideological and a matter of
prestige."

And pressing any advantage too far with Iran could backfire, said
Stephane Dudoignon, a French scholar and professor at the University of
Amsterdam.  "If they feel vulnerable, they may react in very violent
ways and enter into a logic of systematic confrontation."

Though most nations facing Iran's full plate of domestic and regional
woes might prefer to resolve the nuclear standoff in order to
concentrate on troubles closer to home, Iran may not.

"Iran is a theocratic revolutionary state," said Walsh.  "There are
issues of pride, history."

--daragahi@... <mailto:daragahi@...>

--Times staff writer Paul Richter in Washington and special
correspondents Julia Damianova in Vienna and Ramin Mostaghim in Tehran
contributed to this report.

5.

DOES IRAN DRAFT DEAL CHANGE GAME OR SHIFT PLAYERS?
By Amos Harel

Haaretz
October 22, 2009

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1122801.html

Our region is a far cry from peace, as exciting as the reports from
Vienna might appear.  The actual deal between the world powers and Iran
is yet to come, but the draft agreement proposed by the IAEA is a
serious move forward, as is the positive reception of it by the sides at
the table.

The draft is a more detailed outline of a plan already presented in the
first round of talks earlier this month.  According to the draft, Iran
would transfer 1.2 tons of enriched uranium, 75 percent of its total
stock, to Russia, and then to France.  It would then get back
low-enriched uranium, which can be used for the small nuclear research
facility in Tehran, but is not weapons-grade.

This compromise slows the Iranian race for nuclear capability by a year
or two.  It certainly doesn't stop the nuclear project, and Iran is not
giving up the bomb.

Quite the contrary:  It gets international recognition of its right to
enrich uranium, ostensibly for peaceful purposes, while other, slower
channels toward obtaining nuclear weapons remain open.

Will the Iranians agree to the deal?  Unless they resort to their
customary foot-dragging, an answer is expected by tomorrow.

However, few would be surprised if Tehran brings up some more
last-minute reservations, to try and drag some more concessions from the
international community.

If the Iranian regime does take the IAEA draft as it is, it may well be
motivated by internal political calculations.  The elections in June,
with their allegations of fraud and the crackdown on the ensuing
protests, have shaken the confidence of the mullahs.

Refusing a deal could lead to sanctions, which would encumber the
Iranians' daily lives to a degree the regime considers dangerous.
Assuming that staying in power is it's top priority, even the nuclear
program can wait a while.

Some loopholes certainly arise from reading what we know so far about
the draft.  What will happen to the enriched uranium staying in Iran?

And, as Donald Rumsfeld once poignantly observed, "There are things we
don't know we don't know."

How many secret nuclear installation are there still in Iran, beyond the
one recently exposed at Qom?  The CIA, according to a statement it gave
to Congress, believes there could be about a dozen.  And who guarantees
Iran won't continue its pursuit of nuclear arms even as it is feted by
the international community?

The one clear winner from the progress in the talks is the United
States.  After all, President Obama vowed to stop the bomb, not the
enrichment of uranium.  His backers in Washington will praise the draft
agreement as a clear testimony to the success of his strategy of
dialogue, the complete opposite of his predecessor's course.

Obama is no Chamberlain, appeasing Hitler/Ahmadinejad, although its safe
to predict we'll hear the comparison plenty in the next few days.

But the appropriate historic parallel here is George W. Bush's policy
toward North Korea, with a similar risk of an administration falling in
love with a flawed and half-baked agreement, and going on to justify it
even if it's blatantly violated by the other side.

ISRAELS DILEMMA

The tightest spot in the agreement scenario is reserved for Israel,
which will have to decide if it becomes a team player, joining general
optimism, or if it maintains its profound skepticism and goes on with
threatening predictions.

Changing a political line from sour skepticism to manifest hope is a
tough move.  Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who earnestly believes
the mission of his second term in office is saving Israel from a second
Holocaust at the hands of Iran, will be particularly torn.  Tehran is
more than merely the top priority on Netanyahu's political agenda.  It's
also the ultimate excuse to give the Americans in avoiding any progress
in the negotiations with the Palestinians.

Most Western experts agree Israel would not attack Iran without
coordinating its moves with the United States; the approaching
compromise appears to reduce the chances of an Israeli attack in Iran in
the coming year.

But Iran would remain a sworn enemy of Israel, while the agreement, if
it is signed, will only cement the radical regime against its
opposition.  Tehran will not stop supporting Hamas and Hezbollah, and
it's doubtful anyone in the West will even ask it to.

The threat against the Israeli home front remains, with or without
Vienna. This makes the timing of the joint American-Israeli "Juniper
Cobra" exercise all the more interesting.  American ships, missiles and
radar system on Israeli territory on such a wide scale and with such
high-profile coverage (including a joint press conference this morning)
sends a clear message about America's commitment to Israeli security.

6.

BUYING TIME -- A VICTORY IN IRANS WAR OF ATTRITION
By Yossi Melman

Haaretz
October 22, 2009

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1122794.html

The already distant option of military action against Iran drew even
further away yesterday, as a draft agreement on Iran's nuclear program
dealt a serious blow to chances that the United States will attack Iran.

The full draft of the agreement between six world powers and Iran is
still to be published, and the little we know leaves a lot of question
marks.  However, if the draft is confirmed and if Iran fulfills the
agreement to the letter, the Islamic Republic will have scored a major
achievement in the war of attrition it has been running against the
international community, while still relentlessly pursuing its nuclear
program.

The agreement removes all justification for an attack on Iran's nuclear
sites over claims it is violating international commitments and attempts
to obtain nuclear arms.

The military option seems to have been postponed by at least 18 months,
the time frame allocated for the agreement.  Israeli policy on Iran has
suffered a particularly strong setback, as the agreement also narrows
the possibility of significant sanctions against Tehran.

However, the agreement also signifies that Iran is, eventually,
vulnerable to pressure, and is aware of the international community's
demand and concerns over its nuclear program.  The agreement distances
Iran by at least 18 months from obtaining enriched uranium, which could
then be further enriched to produce nuclear weapons.

Although the agreement essentially contradicts the U.N. Security
Council, which demands a stop to all Iranian enrichment of uranium, it
does not contain a clause guaranteeing the removal of the sanctions
already imposed on Iran.  Those sanctions are fairly light, but their
maintenance is a reminder that Iran is still must prove the innocence of
its intentions.

At the end of the day, any compromise agreement buys time for all
involved.  Iran gets relief from international pressures without
stopping the uranium enrichment, and the West gets a time-out, while
maintaining vigilance over the Tehran's nuclear program.

The agreement can become a landmark in a long journey toward trust and
understanding between Iran and the West.  But there is also the risk the
deal is a one-off, or that Iran will break it, continuing to develop
knowledge, technology and materials needed for nuclear weaponry.  This
possibility considered, the Mossad's estimate Iran could begin producing
nuclear arms by 2014 remains as valid as it ever was.



--
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#7865 From: Carol Moore in DC <fightpatriarchy@...>
Date: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:10 pm
Subject: Rev. Guard chief threatens US & UK but negotiators meet; situation appears confused & volatile
carolmooreindc
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject:     [ufpj-iran] R,DT,TT,Ind.: Rev. Guard chief threatens US &
UK but negotiators meet; situation appears confused & volatile
Date:     Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:50:35 -0700

1.
IRAN THREATENS U.S. AND BRITAIN AFTER GUARD BOMBING
By Hashem Kalantari and Hossein Jaseb

Reuters
October 19, 2009 -- 1838 EDT

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE59H0AH20091019

TEHRAN -- The head of Iran's Revolutionary Guards vowed on Monday to
"retaliate" against the United States and Britain after accusing them
and neighboring Pakistan of backing militants who blew up six Guards
commanders.

Iranian media say the Sunni Muslim insurgent group Jundallah (God's
soldiers) has claimed responsibility for Sunday's bombing in
Sistan-Baluchistan province, which killed 42 people in all.

The incident threatened to overshadow talks between Iran and global
powers in Vienna on Monday intended to tackle a standoff about Iran's
nuclear ambitions.

Guards commander-in-chief Mohammad Ali Jafari said Iranian security
officials had presented documents indicating "direct ties" from
Jundallah to U.S., British, and, "unfortunately," Pakistani intelligence
organizations, the ISNA news agency said.

"Behind this scene are the American and British intelligence apparatus,
and there will have to be retaliatory measures to punish them," Jafari
was quoted as saying.

Jundallah, which has been blamed for many attacks since 2005 in the
desert province bordering Pakistan, says it is fighting to end
discrimination against Sunni Muslims by Iran's dominant Shi'ites.  Its
leader is Abdolmalek Rigi.

Jafari said Rigi and his plans were "undoubtedly under the umbrella and
the protection" of U.S., British, and Pakistani organizations, though he
limited the threat of retaliation to the United States and Britain.

"TRAINED BY U.S. AND BRITAIN"

Iranian television quoted General Mohammad Pakpour, commander of the
Guards' ground forces, whose deputy was killed in the bombing, as
saying:  "The base of the terrorists and rebels has not been in Iran.
They are trained by America and Britain in some of the neighboring
countries."

The United States, Pakistan, and Britain all condemned the bombing, the
bloodiest attack in Iran since the 1980-88 war with Iraq, and denied
involvement.

"We reject in the strongest terms any assertion that this attack has
anything to do with Britain," said a spokeswoman at Britain's Foreign
Office.  "Terrorism is abhorrent wherever it occurs."

The bombing of a mosque in Zahedan, capital of Sistan-Baluchestan,
reportedly also claimed by Jundallah, killed 25 people in May.

The poor and remote province, mostly populated by Sunni Muslims, borders
both Pakistan and Afghanistan and has frequently been the scene of
clashes between security forces, ethnic Baluch Sunni insurgents, and
heavily-armed drug smugglers.

The victims of the bombing in the city of Sarbaz included a number of
tribal chiefs who were due to hold a meeting with the Guards to promote
Shi'ite-Sunni unity.

The incident raised tension between Iran and major powers before talks
at the International Atomic Energy Agency.

On the agenda in Vienna was a proposal that Iran send low enriched
uranium abroad to be enriched further and then returned to be used in a
reactor where Iran produces medical isotopes.

The meeting of Iranian, Russian, French, and U.S. officials started
shortly after state-run Iranian television said Iran would not deal
directly with France since it had failed to deliver "nuclear materials"
in the past.

It was not immediately clear what effect this would have on the talks.

NEW CLAMPDOWN?

Analysts say Iran's governing hardliners may use the bomb attack as an
excuse to further clamp down on moderate opponents of President Mahmoud
Ahmadinejad, whose disputed re-election in June sparked huge opposition
protests.

A study by the Norwegian Defense Research Establishment published on
Monday said Jundzllah's existence showed that Iran's control over
Sistan-Baluchestan was precarious, adding:  "It also shows the limits to
Islamic unity within the Islamic Republic itself.  This deals a blow to
the credentials of the revolution and the international revolutionary
aspects of (the late Ayatollah Ruhollah) Khomeini's doctrine," it said.

"The great paradox is that Iran, which has been active in support of
different Islamist movements outside her own territory after the
revolution, is now faced with serious armed opposition within her own
borders."

The Guards force, whose influence has increased since Ahmadinejad came
to power in 2005, played a key role in suppressing the street protests
after the election.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev offered cooperation in fighting
terrorism and extremism in a letter to Ahmadinejad.

"We are ready to cooperate with Iran in countering these threats," he
wrote, according to press service.

Ahmadinejad urged Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari in a telephone
call to help find the perpetrators of the attack, Iran's IRNA news
agency reported.

Pakistani Foreign Ministry spokesman Abdul Basit told the *Daily Times*
newspaper: "Pakistan is not involved in terrorist activities . . . we
are striving to eradicate this menace."

Pakistan has backed armed Sunni Muslim groups in the past, particularly
in Afghanistan.

Relations between Iran and Pakistan have been generally good in recent
years and the neighbors are cooperating on plans to build a natural gas
pipeline.  But Iran has in the past said Jundallah members have been
operating out of Pakistan.

Some analysts believe Jundallah has evolved through shifting alliances
with parties including the Taliban and Pakistan's ISI intelligence
service, who saw it as a tool to use against Iran.

(Additional reporting by Parisa Hafezi in Tehran and Augustine Anthony
in Islamabad; Editing by Kevin Liffey)

2.

Editorial

JUNDALLAH AND RELATIONS WITH IRAN

Daily Times (Pakistan)
October 20, 2009

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2009\10\20\story_20-10-2009_pg3_1

On Sunday, a suicide-bomber in the Iranian province of Sistan shockingly
killed seven commanders of Irans lite Revolutionary Guard and up to 42
other people.  Irans President Mr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad says the attack
was planned inside Pakistan where an anti-Iran terrorist organization
named Jundallah has been active for the past several years.  The
Pakistani charg daffaires in Tehran has been called to the Foreign
Ministry in connection with what can be called the most serious
terrorist incident in Iran for some years.

Despite some understanding between Iran and Pakistan over the activity
of Jundallah inside Pakistan -- Pakistan has been surrendering arrested
anti-Iran terrorists to Tehran -- regional geopolitics is bound to
trigger unfriendly speculation.  Needless to say, Jundallah, the
Pakistan-based Iranian-Baloch terrorist organisation, has acknowledged
the latest attack in Sistan.  Iran says Jundallah leader Andolmalik Rigi
is in Balochistan; Pakistan says he is not.  Both however know that
nothing can be said for certain.

The map of hostilities in the region is extremely complicated and it
doesnt matter that President Asif Zardari and Prime Minister Yousaf
Raza Gilani have both condemned the attack.  Baloch nationalism on both
sides of the Iran-Pakistan border threatens both nation-states, and
solutions on both sides are complicated by the nature of the centralized
states and their ideological content.  The Iranian speaker of parliament
has accused the United States of having instigated the attack on Irans
most powerful Revolutionary Guard.  The Iranian press quotes leaders
saying the United Kingdom too is involved.

Pakistan is in trouble because it had its own Jandullah operating in
Karachi for the Taliban of South Waziristan till 2004.  It is now quite
clear that Pakistani Jandullah is not the Jundallah outfit that is
attacking inside Iran, but the modus operandi of the latter borrows much
from the terrorism of the Taliban and Al Qaeda.  For instance, the use
of suicide-bombing carries the signature of madrassa-based
indoctrination even though the Sunni Baloch of Pakistan are strictly
secular and take no part in killing the Shia in Balochistan.

Iran has a complex code of interpretation when it comes to explaining to
its people certain developments on its eastern border.  At the higher
level of statesmanship, it is engaged with Pakistan on what can be
called the biggest energy project of South Asia, called the
Iran-Pakistan Gas Pipeline project.  At the domestic political level, it
looks at Pakistan as a state that favors the Taliban -- at the top of
the list of enemies in Tehran -- and aligns with Irans arch-enemy, the
United States.  This in itself gives rise to a complex imagined network
of intrigue and double-dealing.

Hanging from this is the accusation that the U.S. is funding Jundallah
to create trouble in Sistan to balance the trouble Iran is supposedly
making in Iraq.  Many Pakistanis buy into this.  But at the same time,
Iran becomes unhappy when the U.S. and Pakistan start thinking of
talking to their separate Talibans.  It cannot help thinking that both
will somehow bring the Taliban back to power in Kabul and thus endanger
the non-Pashtun population of Afghanistan as well as endanger Irans
security on its eastern border.

There is a clear break here between what the world thinks and what Iran
thinks.  The world thinks that the U.S. unwittingly strengthened Irans
regional position by destroying two regimes:  Saddam Husseins in the
west and the Talibans in the east.  But Tehran continues to think that
the U.S. and its allies are trying to get Iran into a challenging
regional pincers movement.  Unfortunately, Pakistan can hardly reassure
Iran in this regard because of its declining writ of the state in
Balochistan and elsewhere.

Within this extremely murky strategic thinking, Iran has acted in its
own national interest.  It has given shelter to actors from Pakistan
who promised to create difficulties for the U.S.  It has provided safe
haven to runaway warlords from Afghanistan it thought could at least
temporarily damage the unity of the Taliban.  It is known to have
facilitated the passage of Al Qaeda terrorists from Pakistan to Iraq
in 2003, which then actually led to the massacre of the Shia there.

But in many ways, Iran promises to become as important an ally of
Pakistan as China, mainly because of its role as a supplier of energy.
At the same time, however, Pakistan has to retain the option of
international support, including that of the Arabs -- something for
which Irans current government doesnt care much.  Hence a measure of
tolerable bilateral tension.

3.

ARROGANT POWERS SUPPORT ENEMIES SEEKING TO UNDERMINE NATIONAL UNITY: LEADER

Tehran Times
October 20, 2009

http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=205930

TEHRAN -- Supreme Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Seyyed Ali
Khamenei has stated that the enemies seeking to undermine the countrys
unity and security are supported by the arrogant powers.

The crime committed by bloodthirsty terrorists in Baluchistan exposed
the evil face of the enemies of (the countrys) security and unity, who
are supported by certain arrogant powers spy agencies, more than ever
before, he said in a statement issued on Monday.

The Leader made the remarks one day after a terrorist attack killed over
40 people, including five senior commanders of the Islamic Revolution
Guards Corps, in the southeastern province of Sistan-Baluchistan.

Ayatollah Khamenei said the assassination of dedicated people like
Islamic Revolution Guards Corps Ground Forces Deputy Commander Nour-Ali
Shoushtari, several other IRGC commanders, and a number of Shia, Sunni,
Persian, and Baluchi citizens is a crime against the country, and
especially against Sistan-Baluchestan Province.

The enemies should be aware that such acts of savagery will not
undermine the unity of Iranian ethnic groups and followers of different
schools of Islamic jurisprudence, he added.

Ayatollah Khamenei also offered his condolences to the families of the
people who lost their lives in the deadly attack that took place in the
city of Pishin, near the border with Pakistan, on Sunday.

4.

World

Middle East

DOUBTS LOOM OVER NUCLEAR AGREEMENT
By Kim Sengupta

Independent (London)
October 20, 2009

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/doubts-loom-over-nuclear-agr\
eement-1805636.html

Western powers began talks with Iran about its nuclear program yesterday
amid confusion as to whether a viable agreement could be reached
following combative statements from Tehran.

Iranian officials appeared to rule out the main demand made by the West
that enrichment of uranium should take place abroad and not in the
Islamic Republic -- a safeguard against the government of Mahmoud
Ahmadinejad acquiring a nuclear arsenal.

Tehran had agreed in principle to having the uranium shipped out of the
country to be turned into fuel rods and then sent back and there was
speculation that the talks -- being held in Vienna under the auspices of
the International Atomic Energy Authority (IAEA) -- with the U.S.,
Russia, and France would lead to the transfer of 85 per cent of its
current stock.

However, a number of officials appeared in the Iranian media to
challenge this.  Abolfazl Zohrehvand, a senior aide to the country's
leading nuclear negotiator, Saeed Jalili, said enrichment to levels of
five per cent would take place outside the country.  He added:  "The
importance of this is that Iran will retain the techniques of
enrichment. . . . And we will keep our sites and research centers."

The Iranian nuclear agency spokesman Ali Shirzadian stated if the talks
"do not bring about the desired result," Tehran would continue its
enrichment program.  "We will never abandon our right to enrich," he said.

Mohamed ElBaradei, director general of the IAEA, shrugged off these
rumblings, saying yesterday's talks in Vienna had got "off to a good
start" and would continue today.  But observers noted that Iran had only
sent a lower-level technical delegation and not Mr. Jalili, casting
doubt on a final deal.

It was also not clear what impact the sudden announcement that Tehran's
delegation would not deal directly with Paris would have on the
tentative agreement for Iran to ship uranium to to France.  State-run
Iranian television stated that France had failed to deliver "nuclear
materials" in the past and that Paris had "interfered" in attempts to
improve relations with the IAEA.

The seemingly tougher Iranian stance came as Tehran accused Pakistan,
the U.S. and Britain of funding a Sunni militant group, Jundallah, which
carried out a weekend suicide bombing attack that killed 42 people,
including six senior officers in the Revolutionary Guards. Mohammed Ali
Jafari, the Guards' commander-in-chief, said:  "Behind this scene are
the U.S. and British intelligence apparatus, and there will be
retaliatory measures to punish them.  We have also got documents proving
the involvement of the Pakistanis."  The U.S. and U.K. strenuously
denied involvement.

Talks earlier this month in Geneva had led to hopes among Western
diplomats that Iran would turn over more than 1,200kg of low-enriched
uranium.  The amount is viewed as significant as 1,000kg is the accepted
threshold of the amount of low-enriched uranium needed to produce
weapons-grade uranium.

U.S. authorities have estimated that Iran would be in a position to
produce nuclear weapons by 2015.  If most of that stock is taken out of
the country before being enriched, the argument goes, Tehran would not
be in a position to manufacture weapons-grade uranium.  However, David
Albright of the International Institute of Strategic Studies, said:  "It
buys some time.  But Iran could replace even 1,200 kilograms of
low-enriched uranium in about a year."

--
Carol Moore in DC
http://carolmoore.net/
http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
http://youtube.com/carolmoore
http://secession.net
http://stopthewarnow.net
http://whatwouldgandhido.net
http://radicalbuttons.com

NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
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#7864 From: Carol Moore in DC <fightpatriarchy@...>
Date: Sat Oct 17, 2009 1:49 pm
Subject: Israeli preparations for ground attacks on Iran 'after December'
carolmooreindc
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More details - this is not the usual air attack prediction but
infiltration and attack.

http://news.antiwar.com/2009/10/15/report-israel-eyes-ground-strikes-in-iran-nex\
t-year/
Report: Israel Eyes Ground Strikes in Iran Next Year
Israeli Elite Forces Could Sabotage Facilities, Assassinate Scientists
by Jason Ditz, October 15, 2009

Le Canard Enchan, a French weekly newspaper famous for its humorous
tone and penchant for uncovering leaks, is reporting on indications that
the Israeli military is planning to launch ground strikes into Iranian
territory some time after December.
Israeli Lt. Gen. Ashkenazi

The report cites a meeting between Israeli army chief Lt. Gen. Ashkenazi
and French Gen. Jean-Louis Georgelin in which Ashkenazi reportedly said
the military had abandonded plans to bomb Iran, but was considering
deploying its elite forces to the nation to launch ground attacks instead.

In this event, the Israeli forces would sneak into Iran and conduct
sabotage missions against the nations nuclear infrastructure. They
would also attempt to assassinate top scientists. The claim was
bolstered by reports that the Israeli military has ordered reservists
from its elite units home in recent weeks and placed an order for combat
ration for the soldiers.

The Israeli government has repeatedly threatened to attack Iran, citing
the nations civilian nuclear program as a grave threat. Despite reports
to the contrary, they insist they have not abandoned plans to attack.
++++++++++++++++++++++
ISRAEL MAY ATTACK IRAN AFTER DECEMBER
By JPost.com

Jerusalem Post
October 15, 2009

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1255547721120

Israel is making preparations to carry out military attacks in Iran
after December, a French magazine reported overnight Wednesday.

According to the report in *Le Canard Enchan* quoted by Israel Radio,
Jerusalem has already ordered high-quality combat rations from a French
food manufacturer for soldiers serving in lite units and has also asked
reservists of these units staying abroad to return to Israel.

The magazine further reported that in a recent visit to France, IDF
Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Gabi Ashkenazi told his French
counterpart Jean-Louis Georgelin that Israel was not planning to bomb
Iran, but might send lite troops to conduct activities on the ground there.

These, according to the magazine, could involve the sabotage of nuclear
facilities as well as assassinations of top Iranian nuclear scientists.

Israel has recently toned down rhetoric against Iran so as not to hinder
U.S. diplomatic efforts for Iranian transparency regarding its nuclear
program, but neither Jerusalem nor Washington have so far made any
unequivocal statements to the effect that the military option against
Iran was no longer being considered.

Israel has maintained that it has the military capability to tackle Iran
on its own if sanctions against the Islamic Republic prove ineffective.

Israel accuses Iran of seeking to acquire nuclear weapons.  Teheran
maintains that its nuclear program is peaceful.

The *Jerusalem Post* could not confirm *Le Canard Enchan*'s report.

++++++++++++++++++++++++

DEBKAfile special report

ISRAEL MAY ATTACK IRAN AFTER DECEMBER - LE CANARD ENCHAINE

Debka
October 15, 2009

http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=6321

According to an unconfirmed report in the French *Le Canard Enchan* of
Wednesday, Oct. 14, Israel is preparing to bomb Iranian nuclear sites
and pro-Iranian targets across the Middle East after December 2009.  The
prestigious satirical weekly reports that the IDF has notified special
forces reservists abroad to get ready to return home in November for
immediate drafting to the military operation against Iranian nuclear
facilities.  The weekly further reports Israel has ordered combat
rations from a French firm for these reservists to stay on long-term
missions far from home.

French military sources said that Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi met
secretly in France with U.S. armed forces Chief of Staff Adm. Mike
Mullen and French Chief of Staff Gen. Jean-Louis Georgelin, to inform
that Israel planned to attack Iran after December, when it became clear
that the talks between the six powers and Tehran had failed to produce
any benefit.

According to *Le Canard Enchan*, Ashkenazi said Israel would not
attack Iran by air but rather use ground forces in coordinated
operations on several Middle East fronts.

DEBKAfile's military sources add that if the information leaked to the
newspaper from French joint staffs sources is correct -- and not a red
herring to disguise the impending attack's real nature -- the IDF may be
expected to branch out from Iran's nuclear facilities to target its
allies too, such as Syrian air force and missile batteries, Hezbollah
bases in Lebanon, and Hamas in the Gaza Strip.

*Le Canard Enchan* is not alone in predicting an Israeli attack on
Iran after December.  A former Israeli deputy defense minister, Efraim
Sneh, commented to U.S. and British media several times in the past week
that if the U.S. fails to rally fellow powers' support for toughened
sanctions against Iran by Christmas, Israel will have to attack its
nuclear installations.  It may be assumed that Sneh was not just
guessing on his own initiative.

Another sign of the growing military tensions surrounding the Iranian
nuclear program was a phone conversation late Wednesday night between
President Barack Obama and French President Nicola Sarkozy.  The two
discussed Iran.  After Hillary Clinton failed to swing Russian leaders
round to supporting sanctions, when she visited Moscow Tuesday,
DEBKAfile's Washington sources report that Obama has decided to work
with the French president for efforts to stop Iran's nuclear program.


--
Carol Moore in DC
http://carolmoore.net/
http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
http://youtube.com/carolmoore
http://secession.net
http://stopthewarnow.net
http://whatwouldgandhido.net
http://radicalbuttons.com

NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
the National Security Agency may have read this
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#7863 From: Carol Moore in DC <liberty@...>
Date: Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:19 am
Subject: Re: Iranians Love U.S. Secessionists...and War on Iran will Boost US Secessionists...
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Alan Grimes wrote:
> Carol Moore in DC wrote:
>
>
>> Iranians Love U.S. Secessionists because they seek to undermine the
>> "Great Satan" (or "Evil Empire")... and yet Imperial U.S./Israel war on
>> Iran and the ensuing economic fiasco, civil liberties abuses and even
>> nuclear war are the things most likely to turn tens of millions of
>> Americans INTO secessionists and break up the U.S.. Ironic, eh??
>>
>
> I'm a fairly hard-core secessionist too these days.
>
> The only way to keep the sociopaths/psychopaths and other control freaks
> from trying to rule the hill is to chop it up into as many tiny hills as
> possible.
>
> The UN never served my interests, and now, even the US federal
> government has turned against me on every front, on every issue, and in
> every way.
>
> I am currently in a civil disobedience mode. The federal government is
> dead to me. I don't pay taxes, I don't care what crap they want to call
> a law. They're dead to me. I'm in revolt.
>
>
>

--
Carol Moore in DC
http://carolmoore.net/
http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
http://youtube.com/carolmoore
http://secession.net
http://stopthewarnow.net
http://whatwouldgandhido.net
http://radicalbuttons.com

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#7862 From: Alan Grimes <agrimes@...>
Date: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:43 pm
Subject: Re: Iranians Love U.S. Secessionists...and War on Iran will Boost US Secessionists...
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Carol Moore in DC wrote:

> Iranians Love U.S. Secessionists because they seek to undermine the
> "Great Satan" (or "Evil Empire")... and yet Imperial U.S./Israel war on
> Iran and the ensuing economic fiasco, civil liberties abuses and even
> nuclear war are the things most likely to turn tens of millions of
> Americans INTO secessionists and break up the U.S.. Ironic, eh??

I'm a fairly hard-core secessionist too these days.

The only way to keep the sociopaths/psychopaths and other control freaks
from trying to rule the hill is to chop it up into as many tiny hills as
possible.

The UN never served my interests, and now, even the US federal
government has turned against me on every front, on every issue, and in
every way.

I am currently in a civil disobedience mode. The federal government is
dead to me. I don't pay taxes, I don't care what crap they want to call
a law. They're dead to me. I'm in revolt.


--
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Powers are not rights.

#7861 From: Carol Moore in DC <fightpatriarchy@...>
Date: Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:36 pm
Subject: Iranians Love U.S. Secessionists...and War on Iran will Boost US Secessionists...
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Iranians Love U.S. Secessionists because they seek to undermine the
"Great Satan" (or "Evil Empire")... and yet Imperial U.S./Israel war on
Iran and the ensuing economic fiasco, civil liberties abuses and even
nuclear war are the things most likely to turn tens of millions of
Americans INTO secessionists and break up the U.S..  Ironic, eh??
__________________________
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig10/sale1.1.1.html
  Secession Is the Future
Kirkpatrick Sale Talks To Iranians About the Death of Empires
by Kirkpatrick Sale

The following interview with Middlebury Institute director Kirkpatrick
Sale appeared in the Kayhan International newspaper of Tehran, Iran on
July 21, 2009, and in the Persian language Kayhan News the same day. The
interviewer was Seyed Yasser Jebraily.

You have argued that the major theme of contemporary history is the
break-up of great empires. Would you elaborate on this and also evaluate
the current status of U.S. Empire, I mean its failures and successes?
(see link for rest)
_________________________________

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=108556&sectionid=3510302
American secessionist leader: US could break up fast
Tue, 13 Oct 2009 10:42:43 GMT
Font size : [Increase] [Normal] [Decrease]
Professor Thomas Naylor of the Second Vermont Republic
The following is the transcript of a Press TV recent interview with
emeritus professor of economics at Duke University, author and founder
of the Second Vermont Republic movement Thomas Naylor.

Press TV: First of all when does the secessionist movements date back to
and why is the United States facing a growing number of secessionists today?

Prof. Naylor: The legacy of secession goes all the way back to our
inception in 1776. The United States was created by secession from England.

Press TV: Professor, what is the movement fighting for?
(see link for rest)

--
Carol Moore in DC
http://carolmoore.net/
http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
http://youtube.com/carolmoore
http://secession.net
http://stopthewarnow.net
http://whatwouldgandhido.net
http://radicalbuttons.com

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#7860 From: marc guttman <marc_guttman@...>
Date: Fri Oct 9, 2009 6:48 pm
Subject: “War is Peace,” “Freedom is Slavery,” “Ignorance is Strength.”
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http://counterpunch.org/roberts10092009.html

Weekend Edition
October 9-11, 2009

Upside Down World

Warmonger Wins Peace Prize

By PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS

It took 25 years longer than George Orwell thought for the slogans of 1984 to become reality.

“War is Peace,” “Freedom is Slavery,” “Ignorance is Strength.”

I would add, “Lie is Truth.”

The Nobel Committee has awarded the 2009 Peace Prize to President Obama, the person who started a new war in Pakistan, upped the war in Afghanistan, and continues to threaten Iran with attack unless Iran does what the US government demands and relinquishes its rights as a signatory to the non-proliferation treaty.

The Nobel committee chairman, Thorbjoern Jagland said, “Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world’s attention and given its people hope for a better future.”

Obama, the committee gushed, has created “a new climate in international politics.”

Tell that to the 2 million displaced Pakistanis and the unknown numbers of dead ones that Obama has racked up in his few months in office. Tell that to the Afghans where civilian deaths continue to mount as Obama’s “war of necessity” drones on indeterminably.

No Bush policy has changed. Iraq is still occupied. The Guantanamo torture prison is still functioning. Rendition and assassinations are still occurring. Spying on Americans without warrants is still the order of the day. Civil liberties are continuing to be violated in the name of Oceania’s “war on terror.”

Apparently, the Nobel committee is suffering from the delusion that, being a minority, Obama is going to put a stop to Western hegemony over darker-skinned peoples.

The non-cynical can say that the Nobel committee is seizing on Obama’s rhetoric to lock him into the pursuit of peace instead of war. We can all hope that it works. But the more likely result is that the award has made “War is Peace” the reality.

Obama has done nothing to hold the criminal Bush regime to account, and the Obama administration has bribed and threatened the Palestinian Authority to go along with the US/Israeli plan to deep-six the UN’s Goldstone Report on Israeli war crimes committed during Israel’s inhuman military attack on the defenseless civilian population in the Gaza Ghetto.

The US Ministry of Truth is delivering the Obama administration’s propaganda that Iran only notified the IAEA of its “secret” new nuclear facility because Iran discovered that US intelligence had discovered the “secret” facility. This propaganda is designed to undercut the fact of Iran’s compliance with the Safeguards Agreement and to continue the momentum for a military attack on Iran.

The Nobel committee has placed all its hopes on a bit of skin color.

“War is Peace” is now the position of the formerly antiwar organization, Code Pink.
Code Pink has decided that women’s rights are worth a war in Afghanistan.

When justifications for war become almost endless--oil, hegemony, women’s rights, democracy, revenge for 9/11, denying bases to al Qaeda and protecting against terrorists--war becomes the path to peace.

The Nobel committee has bestowed the prestige of its Peace Prize on Newspeak and Doublethink.

Paul Craig Roberts was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration. He is coauthor of The Tyranny of Good Intentions.He can be reached at: PaulCraigRoberts@...




#7859 From: marc guttman <marc_guttman@...>
Date: Fri Oct 9, 2009 1:41 am
Subject: Let's End These Wars
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http://www.parentdish.com/2009/10/07/little-girl-cant-let-go-as-daddy-leaves-for-iraq/?icid=webmailwbml-aimdl5link3http://www.parentdish.com/2009/10/07/little-girl-cant-let-go-as-daddy-leaves-for-iraq/

Little Girl Can't Let go as Sergeant Daddy Leaves For Iraq


Paige Bennethum and Dad Soldier

Paige Bennethum, 4, holds her daddy's hand as he lines up in formation before heading to Iraq. Credit: Abby Bennethum

Some things are just not allowed when soldiers are standing in formation. One of them is 4-year-old girls.

However, there was no soldier stern enough to pry Paige Bennethum of Laureldale, Pa. from her father as he prepared to leave last July for a year-long deployment in Iraq.

Abby Bennethum captured her daughter's emotions in a photograph that she passed along to the Reading Eagle, the newspaper in Berks County, Pa. The image immediately captured many other people's emotions.

Army Reserve Staff Sgt. Brett Bennethum was preparing to depart from Fort Dix, N.J., for Iraq, leaving behind his pregnant wife and two little girls. His family was there to see him off. His commanding officer didn't have the heart to tell Paige she had to let go of her daddy.

"I didn't want to let go of him," she told NBC Philadelphia.

Sgt. Bennethum, 30, is scheduled to return home next July. Until then, he's transporting supplies across the Iraqi border. He serves with the 733rd Transportation Company based in Reading, Pa.

Abby Bennethum said she got pregnant right before her husband left for Iraq. "I've heard of deployment babies, but I never thought I'd be having one," she told the Reading Eagle. The couple's other daughter, Lena, is just 10 months old.

Staff Sgt. Bennethum got a four-day pass so he could spend some quality time with his family and they could make the two-hour trip to Fort Dix to see him off. Almost immediately upon arrival, his commanding officer ordered the soldiers to fall in.

"Gotta go," he told his family. But Paige walked up behind him in formation, grabbed his right hand and would not let go.

"I called her a couple of times, but she wouldn't budge," her mother said. She still wishes she was holding her father's hand.

"I just miss my dad right now," Paige told NBC.




#7858 From: Carol Moore in DC <liberty@...>
Date: Thu Oct 8, 2009 2:59 am
Subject: LP Wants out of Afghanistan!!
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Hmmmm, how did that happen??
________

September 21, 2009

Dear Friend of Liberty,

You may have heard today's prominent news stories about President
Obama's military commander in Afghanistan, Stanley McChrystal, and his
request to greatly increase the presence of U.S. armed forces there.

The Libertarian Party opposes this plan. We want to end the war, not
escalate it.

In September 2008, the Libertarian National Committee adopted this
resolution:

     WHEREAS the government of the United States should return to its
     historical libertarian tradition of avoiding entangling alliances,
     foreign quarrels, and military adventures; and

     WHEREAS the stability and security of Afghanistan lie outside the
     jurisdiction of the government of the United States; and

     WHEREAS the Libertarian Party recognizes that the only legitimate
     role of the military is to defend America against direct attack or
     the imminent threat of attack;

     THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the Libertarian National Committee
     calls on the government of the United States to withdraw the armed
     forces of the United States from Afghanistan, without undue delay.

Democrats often claim to oppose foreign wars. But after eight months in
total control of Congress and the White House, Democrats have done
nothing to end the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I hope you will support us in our efforts to oppose this war.

Sincerely,

Wes Benedict
Executive Director
Libertarian National Committee


--
Carol Moore in DC
http://carolmoore.net/
http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
http://youtube.com/carolmoore
http://secession.net
http://stopthewarnow.net
http://whatwouldgandhido.net
http://radicalbuttons.com

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#7857 From: marc guttman <marc_guttman@...>
Date: Wed Oct 7, 2009 3:38 am
Subject: Another War in the Works
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http://original.antiwar.com/roberts/2009/09/28/another-war-in-the-works/

Antiwar.com

Another War in the Works

by Paul Craig Roberts, September 29, 2009

Does anyone remember all the lies that they were told by then-president Bush and the "mainstream media" about the grave threat to America from weapons of mass destruction in Iraq? These lies were repeated endlessly in the print and TV media despite the reports from the weapons inspectors, who had been sent to Iraq, that no such weapons existed.

The weapons inspectors did an honest job in Iraq and told the truth, but the mainstream media did not emphasize their findings. Instead, the media served as a Ministry of Propaganda, beating the war drums for the U.S. government.

Now the whole process is repeating itself. This time the target is Iran.

As there is no real case against Iran, Obama took a script from Bush’s playbook and fabricated one.

First the facts: As a signatory to the Non-Proliferation Treaty, Iran’s nuclear facilities are open to inspection by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), which carefully monitors Iran’s nuclear energy program to make certain that no material is diverted to nuclear weapons.

The IAEA has monitored Iran’s nuclear energy program and has announced repeatedly that it has found no diversion of nuclear material to a weapons program. All 16 U.S. intelligence agencies have affirmed and reaffirmed that Iran abandoned interest in nuclear weapons years ago.

In keeping with the safeguards agreement that the IAEA be informed before an enrichment facility comes online, Iran informed the IAEA on Sept. 21 that it had a new nuclear facility under construction. By informing the IAEA, Iran fulfilled its obligations under the safeguards agreement. The IAEA will inspect the facility and monitor the nuclear material produced to make sure it is not diverted to a weapons program.

Despite these unequivocal facts, Obama announced on Sept. 25 that Iran has been caught with a "secret nuclear facility" with which to produce a bomb that would threaten the world.

The Obama regime’s claim that Iran is not in compliance with the safeguards agreement is disinformation. Between the end of 2004 and early 2007, Iran voluntarily complied with an additional protocol (Code 3.1) that was never ratified and never became a legal part of the safeguards agreement. The additional protocol would have required Iran to notify the IAEA prior to beginning construction of a new facility, whereas the safeguards agreement in force requires notification prior to completion of a new facility. Iran ceased its voluntary compliance with the unratified additional protocol in March 2007, most likely because of the American and Israeli misrepresentations of Iran’s existing facilities and military threats against them.

By accusing Iran of having a secret "nuclear weapons program" and demanding that Iran "come clean" about the nonexistent program, adding that he does not rule out a military attack on Iran, Obama mimics the discredited Bush regime’s use of nonexistent Iraqi "weapons of mass destruction" to set up Iraq for invasion.

The U.S. media, even the "liberal" National Public Radio, quickly fell in with the Obama lie machine. Steven Thomma of the McClatchy Newspapers declared the non-operational facility under construction, which Iran reported to the IAEA, to be "a secret nuclear facility."

Thomma, reported incorrectly that the world didn’t learn of Iran’s "secret" facility, the one that Iran reported to the IAEA the previous Monday, until Obama announced it in a joint appearance in Pittsburgh the following Friday with British Prime Minister Gordon Brown and French President Nicolas Sarkozy.

Obviously, Thomma has no command over the facts, a routine inadequacy of "mainstream media" reporters. The new facility was revealed when Iran voluntarily reported the facility to the IAEA on Sept. 21.

Ali Akbar Dareini, an Associated Press writer, reported, incorrectly, over AP: "The presence of a second uranium-enrichment site that could potentially produce material for a nuclear weapon has provided one of the strongest indications yet that Iran has something to hide."

Dareini went on to write that "the existence of the secret site was first revealed by Western intelligence officials and diplomats on Friday." Dareini is mistaken. We learned of the facility when the IAEA announced that Iran had reported the facility the previous Monday in keeping with the safeguards agreement.

Dareini’s untruthful report of "a secret underground uranium enrichment facility whose existence has been hidden from international inspectors for years" helped to heighten the orchestrated alarm.

There you have it. The president of the United States and his European puppets are doing what they do best – lying through their teeth. The U.S. "mainstream media" repeats the lies as if they were facts. The U.S. "media" is again making itself an accomplice to wars based on fabrications. Apparently, the media’s main interest is to please the U.S. government and hopefully obtain a taxpayer bailout of its failing print operations.

Dr. Mohamed ElBaradei, director general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, a rare man of principle who has not sold his integrity to the U.S. and Israeli governments, refuted in his report (Sept. 7, 2009) the baseless "accusations that information has been withheld from the Board of Governors about Iran’s nuclear program. I am dismayed by the allegations of some Member states, which have been fed to the media, that information has been withheld from the Board. These allegations are politically motivated and totally baseless. Such attempts to influence the work of the Secretariat and undermine its independence and objectivity are in violation of Article VII.F. of the IAEA Statute and should cease forthwith."

As there is no legal basis for action against Iran, the Obama regime is creating another hoax, like the nonexistent "Iraqi weapons of mass destruction." The hoax is that a facility, reported to the IAEA by Iran, is a secret facility for making nuclear weapons.

Just as the factual reports from the weapons inspectors in Iraq were ignored by the Bush regime, the factual reports from the IAEA are ignored by the Obama regime. Like the Bush regime, the Middle East policy of the Obama regime is based in lies and deception.

Who is the worse enemy of the American people, Iran or the government in Washington and the media whores who serve it?




#7856 From: Carol Moore in DC <liberty@...>
Date: Mon Oct 5, 2009 7:55 pm
Subject: Want to be a LIBS 4 PEACE Contact??
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Someone just told me that one of the contacts at
http://libertarians4peace.net no longer worked.

So I'm emailing everyone currently on the web page list to see if they
still want to be there. (You might be there from 4 years ago and not
even remember!  Or it ight be an old email address you need changed, also.)

Plus if YOU want to get on as a contact for networking purposes -
assuming you agree with our statement of principles on the page - send a
holler.

It's true we aren't very active currently, but that could change -
especially if Obama let's Israel bomb the hell out of Iran and then
joins in for a big nasty war.

Meanwhile, keep reading http://antiwar.com every day to see what's going
on in our big world filled with governmental (and private) force and fraud!!

--
Carol Moore in DC
http://carolmoore.net/
http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
http://youtube.com/carolmoore
http://secession.net
http://stopthewarnow.net
http://whatwouldgandhido.net
http://radicalbuttons.com

NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
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#7855 From: Carol Moore in DC <fightpatriarchy@...>
Date: Fri Oct 2, 2009 10:57 pm
Subject: Iran to transfer enriched uranium to Russia, allow Qom inspection
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What excuse to attack Iran can Israel come up with now??

________________________________________________

OBAMA WELCOMES ADVANCE IN IRAN TALKS
By James Blitz (Geneva), Daniel Dombey (Washington), and Harvey Morris
(United Nations)

Financial Times (London)
October 1, 2009 (updated Oct. 2)

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/acea179e-aea6-11de-96d7-00144feabdc0.html

President Barack Obama on Thursday hailed what he said was a tentative
agreement that could help diminish tensions over Tehrans nuclear
program after the most extensive U.S.-Iranian talks in 30 years.

Speaking at the White House after the end of international negotiations
in Geneva, Mr. Obama said the U.S. was looking for swift and concrete
action by Tehran after a day of constructive talks.

Both Iran and its interlocutors, which also included Russia, China,
Britain, France, and Germany, said the two sides had agreed to resume
talks on the nuclear file this month and that the Islamic Republic would
allow international inspectors to see a previously undeclared nuclear
site near the city of Qom, dramatically revealed last week.

But the U.S. president added the diplomatic talks had agreed in
principle that Iran would ship abroad low enriched uranium -- which the
West fears could be developed into fissile material for a weapon -- for
processing into medical uranium.

A senior U.S. official said that under such a deal most of Irans stock
of enriched uranium could be taken out of the country.

The proposal, based on a U.S.-Russian initiative, comes barely two weeks
after Mr. Obama was praised by Moscow for redrawing missile plans it had
opposed.  The Russians seem to have delivered this, said Cliff
Kupchan, an analyst at the Eurasia Group, a U.S.-based consultancy.

However, the details must still be worked out.

Mr. Obama called on Iran to grant unfettered access to International
Atomic Energy Agency inspectors within two weeks, noting that Mohamed
ElBaradei, IAEA head, was due to travel to Tehran shortly.  Todays
meeting was a constructive beginning, the U.S. president said.  But it
must be followed by constructive action by Irans government.

The most symbolic meeting on Thursday occurred when William Burns, the
senior U.S. representative, held 45-minute bilateral talks with Saeed
Jalili, Irans negotiator.

Over the past 10 years, the U.S. has discussed issues such as
Afghanistan and Iraq with Iran, and last year Mr. Burns attended an
international meeting with Iran, but lacked full powers to negotiate.
By contrast, a U.S. diplomat described Thursdays meeting as direct and
candid.

Western diplomats regard Tehrans readiness to reopen substantive talks
on the nuclear file as crucial if there is to be any agreement on
reining in Irans program, which has moved ahead over the past year.

However, many diplomats voice concerns that Iran may be stalling for
time, pointing to a series of unproductive meetings between Tehran and
the Europeans in the past.

Meanwhile, the U.S. House of Representatives on Thursday backed
legislation that could limit international companies that sell refined
oil to Iran from doing business with the U.S.

2.

World

Middle East

Iran

IRAN, MAJOR POWERS REACH AGREEMENT ON SERIES OF POINTS
By Glenn Kessler

** Obama Sees a 'Constructive Beginning' **

Washington Post
October 2, 2009

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/01/AR2009100101294.\
html

GENEVA -- The United States and Iran tentatively stepped back from
looming confrontation on Thursday, as the Islamic Republic reached an
agreement with major powers that would greatly reduce Iran's stockpile
of low-enriched uranium and reset the diplomatic clock for a solution to
Iran's nuclear ambitions.

The outcome, which President Obama in Washington called a "constructive
beginning," came after 7 1/2 hours of talks in an 18th-century villa on
the outskirts of Geneva that included the highest-level bilateral
meeting between the two countries since relations were severed three
decades ago after the Iranian revolution.  But the difficulties that lie
ahead were illustrated when the chief Iranian negotiator, Saeed Jalili,
held a triumphant news conference at which he denounced "media
terrorism," insisted that Iran has always fully met its international
commitments, and refused even to acknowledge a question from an Israeli
reporter.

The sudden show of cooperation by Tehran reduces for now the threat of
additional sanctions, which has been made repeatedly by the United
States and others over the past week after the revelation of a secret
Iranian nuclear facility.  The United States will need to keep the
pressure on Iran to avoid being dragged into a process without end.

Under the tentative deal, Iran would give up most of its enriched
uranium to Russia in order for it to be converted into desperately
needed material for a medical research reactor in Tehran.  Iran also
agreed to let international inspectors visit the newly disclosed
uranium-enrichment facility in Qom within two weeks, and then to attend
another meeting with negotiators from the major powers by the end of the
month.  The series of agreements struck at the meeting was in itself
unusual because, in the past, the Iranian negotiators have said they
would get back with an answer -- and then fail to do so.

U.S. and other diplomats present at the talks said the tone of the
Iranian delegation privately was not different from the public posture,
with much of the morning devoted to lengthy exchanges of official
talking points.  But they said the mood shifted subtly after the
participants broke for lunch.  The chief U.S. negotiator, Undersecretary
of State William J. Burns, spent 45 minutes in a small sitting room with
Jalili while the other diplomats gathered in the back yard of the Villa
Le Saugy, admiring the views of the Swiss Alps and Lake Geneva as they
mingled in small groups and ate from a cold buffet of fish and salads.

The negotiators -- including diplomats from Britain, France, Germany,
Russia, China and the European Union -- never returned to the conference
table but continued huddling in a rotating series of groups to structure
the agreements.

The outcome of the talks was immediately criticized by former U.N.
ambassador John R. Bolton, who as a Bush administration official balked
at George W. Bush's efforts to entice Iran into negotiations.  "They've
now got the United States ensnared in negotiations," he said.  "This is
like the movie 'Groundhog Day.'"  But another Bush-era official, former
undersecretary of state R. Nicholas Burns, said that even if talks fail,
Obama will have demonstrated that he tried hard to make diplomacy work
-- and will win greater support for sanctions.

Despite the drama of sudden movement on an issue that has been in
stalemate for seven years, all sides agreed that they are months, even
years away from a resolution.  The ultimate U.S. goal is suspension of
Iran's uranium-enrichment activities -- and Tehran insists that it will
never take that step.

"This is only a start, and we shall need to see progress through some of
the practical steps we have discussed today," said European Union
foreign policy chief Javier Solana, who headed the delegation of six
nations meeting with Iran.  He said he hoped for "rapid and intense"
negotiations to follow.

U.S. officials have asserted that the revelation of the Qom facility had
diplomatically isolated Iran, leaving it little choice but to cooperate
or face new sanctions.  Diplomats said the term "sanctions" was never
uttered during the lengthy day, though oblique reference was made to a
statement issued by foreign ministers of the group last week.  That
statement raised the possibility of more sanctions if no negotiating
track was soon established.

Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki -- who was given a rare visa
by the Obama administration to visit Washington on Wednesday -- told
reporters in New York that Iran is not building any other nuclear
facilities, saying the "only case under construction is Qom."  He said
that the Geneva talks took place in a "constructive" atmosphere and that
Iran is committed to continuing negotiations with the six powers,
including the possibility of a future presidential summit.  But he also
made it clear that Iran would not yield to pressure to suspend its
enrichment of uranium.

The agreement concerning the medical reactor was unexpected, and U.S.
officials cast it both as a way to respond to a pressing Iranian need
and to extend the time available to hold negotiations.  "It is a
confidence-building measure which will, to some extent, alleviate
tension and buy some more diplomatic space to pursue the more
fundamental problem of Iran's nuclear program," said one senior U.S.
official, speaking on the condition of anonymity.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, in an interview last week with
the *Washington Post* and *Newsweek*, said he was seeking international
assistance to fuel the reactor, which is closely observed by
international inspectors and produces medical isotopes to help detect
and treat diseases.  He said the reactor, which requires uranium
enriched to 19.75 percent, is running out of fuel because countries had
refused to sell it to Iran.

In the meantime, Iran's Natanz reactor has accumulated enough
low-enriched uranium gas that it, in theory, could convert it to enough
weapons-grade uranium for one nuclear weapon.  Under the tentative
agreement, U.S. officials said, Iran would export most of its 3,300
pounds of low-enriched uranium to Russia, which would then convert it to
the material needed for the reactor.  France would also assist in
fabricating the material into metallic rods for use in the medical reactor.

Officials said the removal of the low-enriched uranium from Iranian soil
should lessen concerns -- particularly in Israel -- that time was
running out for a negotiated solution.  Russia has long offered to
enrich uranium for Iran, an idea never fully embraced by either Iran or
the Bush administration, but U.S. officials insisted that the deal was
not intended as a template for a future solution.

Under U.N. Security Council resolutions, Iran is prohibited from
exporting nuclear material, so a new resolution would probably need to
be approved for the deal to go through.

Obama said at the White House that the United States has "entered a
phase of intensive international negotiations" and warned that "pledges
of cooperation must be fulfilled."  He also said Iran now has "a path
towards a better relationship with the United States."

The conversation between Burns, the American negotiator, and Jalili was
described by one U.S. official as "direct and candid."  It focused
mostly on the nuclear issue but also included a "frank exchange" on
human rights.  Several other U.S. officials also took the opportunity to
meet one-on-one with Iranian counterparts, with one raising the case of
three American hikers being held in Iran.

Fifteen months ago, Burns was in Geneva at a similar meeting but, under
rules set by the Bush administration, was barely permitted to speak and
was ordered to avoid contact with Jalili.  This time, the depth and
length of their conversation may have been unusual in the annals of
U.S.-Iranian diplomatic discourse, but Jalili did not seem to make much
note of it.  Asked about the conversation, he simply said he had spoken
individually to many of the diplomats at the meeting.

--Staff writer Colum Lynch at the United Nations and Anne E. Kornblut in
Washington contributed to this report.

3.

Middle East news

INSPECTORS PREPARE TO VISIT QOM FACILITY
By David Crawford and Joe Lauria

Wall Street Journal
October 2, 2009

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125444482868158131.html

Iran's agreement to permit inspectors to examine its recently disclosed
uranium-enrichment facility could clear the way for the International
Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N.'s nuclear watchdog, to dispatch a team
within two weeks if no obstacles arise.

On Thursday, IAEA Director General Mohamed ElBaradei accepted an
invitation from Tehran to go to Iran on Saturday to work out the
logistics of the inspections, officials said.

In addition to examining the operation in Qom, in north central Iran,
inspectors will be looking for signs of additional facilities.  Yet the
IAEA could face a number of legal hurdles if inspectors try to go beyond
their immediate mandate, U.N. officials say.

The inspectors will be restricted to requesting visits to facilities
that Iran has declared part of its nuclear program, for example.  Iran
has refused to ratify a 1992 protocol that allows inspectors access to
any site they believe may be nuclear-related.

Tehran has described the facility at Qom as a pilot project.  Given its
limited capacity, it would be unsuitable to enrich uranium for civilian
nuclear-power purposes but could be used to produce bomb-grade fuel,
U.S. officials say.

Though the IAEA can dispatch inspectors on short notice, governments can
employ various delaying tactics to postpone the inspections.

The IAEA designs a specific program for each nuclear facility it
monitors, according to a person familiar with its inspections, with the
goal of preventing the use of nuclear material for a weapon.  Details of
that strategy are confidential, a person familiar with the monitoring
said, but many of the tools are known.

Once in Iran, for example, IAEA inspectors are expected to consider
changes to the building design.  The agency is allowed to modify the
design to allow for future inspections once nuclear material is introduced.

Inspectors could eventually install special cameras, neutron detectors,
and devices to detect activity or movement of sensitive equipment or
fuel.  To prevent tampering, the IAEA inspection teams mark their
equipment with special seals.  Should an object be moved or altered, the
seal would be damaged, the person familiar with the monitoring said.

IAEA inspectors also take dust samples to determine if nuclear
enrichment has secretly occurred.

Inspectors schedule inspections based on an assessment of the "maximum
time period I can safely leave this site unattended," the person said.
A site that processes minimal amounts of low-enriched nuclear material
is inspected less often than a site producing large amounts of plutonium
-- a possible component of nuclear weapons -- the person said.

In the past, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has hinted that Iran has
other nuclear sites it hasn't disclosed to the IAEA.  Iranian Foreign
Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said at a U.N. news conference Thursday that
Iran has no undeclared nuclear sites.

Mr. Ahmadinejad said in New York last week that IAEA regulations require
that a country declare the existence of a nuclear enrichment facility
only six months before enrichment begins.

IAEA and U.N. officials reject Iran's interpretation of those
regulations.  But inspectors will need agreement from Iranian
authorities to enter any new sites unless the presence of undeclared
nuclear material is suspected, according to the agreement between the
IAEA and its member countries.

If nuclear material is suspected in a facility the inspectors can invoke
"special inspection rights" to demand entry.  But "if the government
says no, what are you going to do?" a U.N. official asked.  "You are not
going to force yourself."

--Write to David Crawford at david.crawford@...
<mailto:david.crawford@...> and Joe Lauria at newseditor@...
<mailto:newseditor@...>

4.

WEST SKEPTICAL OF IRAN NUCLEAR DEAL
By Warren P. Strobel and Margaret Talev

McClatchy Newspapers
October 2, 2009

http://www.kansascity.com/news/world/story/1484135.html

GENEVA -- Iran agreed Thursday to ship most of its enriched uranium to
Russia for refinement, in what Western diplomats called a significant,
but interim, measure.

The deal eases concerns over Tehrans nuclear program because it
provides a measure of certainty that the uranium will not be used to
make weapons.

The agreement was announced after more than seven hours of high-level
talks in Geneva among Iran and representatives of the five permanent
members of the U.N. Security Council plus Germany.

The talks also featured the highest-level encounter between U.S. and
Iranian officials in three decades.

Iran also pledged that within weeks it will allow the inspection of a
previously covert uranium enrichment facility.  The head of the
International Atomic Energy Agency, Mohamed ElBaradei, announced plans
to travel to Tehran to work out the details.

In Washington, President Barack Obama said the talks marked a
constructive beginning and showed the promise of renewed engagement
with Iran, but he added that going forward, we expect to see swift
action.  Were not interested in talking for the sake of talking.

In Geneva, Javier Solana, the European Unions foreign policy chief,
said he hoped the talks, which are to reconvene later this month, were
the start of intensive engagement with Iran after a 15-month pause.

Despite the signs of progress, however, Iran gave no ground on demands
that it halt the enrichment of uranium, which can be used for civilian
purposes -- or to make weapons.

Skeptics, including the Obama administration, Israel, and many lawmakers
on Capitol Hill, also worry that Tehran will string out diplomacy with
small concessions while it continues covert work toward fashioning a
nuclear weapon.

The overall problem of Irans nuclear program remains, said a senior
U.S. official speaking anonymously.

Under the deal, Iran would ship what a U.S. official said was most of
its 3,300 pounds of low-enriched uranium to Russia, where it would be
further refined.  French technicians then would fabricate it into fuel
rods and return it to Tehran to power a reactor thats used to make
isotopes for nuclear medicine.

During the talks at a villa outside Geneva, Undersecretary of State
William Burns, the State Departments No. 3 official, met for about 45
minutes with Saeed Jalili, Irans chief nuclear negotiator.  At that
session, which officials described as businesslike, Burns raised Irans
human rights record, the senior U.S. official said.

5.

IRAN AGREES TO SEND ENRICHED URANIUM TO RUSSIA
By Steven Erlanger and Mark Landler

New York Times
October 2, 2009

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/02/world/middleeast/02nuke.html

GENEVA -- Iran agreed on Thursday in talks with the United States and
other major powers to open its newly revealed uranium enrichment plant
near Qom to international inspection in the next two weeks and to send
most of its openly declared enriched uranium outside Iran to be turned
into fuel for a small reactor that produces medical isotopes, senior
American and other Western officials said.

Irans agreement in principle to export most of its enriched uranium for
processing -- if it happens -- would represent a major accomplishment
for the West, reducing Irans ability to make a nuclear weapon quickly
and buying more time for negotiations to bear fruit.

If Iran has secret stockpiles of enriched uranium, however, the
accomplishment would be hollow, a senior American official conceded.

The officials described the long day of talks here with Iran, the first
such discussions in which the United States has participated fully, as a
modest success on a long and complicated road.  Iran had at least
finally engaged with the big powers on its nuclear program after more
than a year and had agreed to some tangible, confidence-building steps
before another meeting with the same participants before the end of this
month.

But despite the relatively promising outcome, the Obama administration
was at pains to strike a cautious tone, given Irans history of
duplicity, its crackdown on its own people after the tainted June
presidential elections and President Obamas concern about being
perceived as nave or susceptible to a policy of Iranian delays.

Mr. Obama, speaking in Washington, called the talks constructive, but
warned Tehran that he was prepared to move quickly to more stringent
sanctions if negotiations over Irans nuclear ambitions dragged on.

Were not interested in talking for the sake of talking, Mr. Obama
told reporters in the White House Diplomatic Reception Room.  If Iran
does not take steps in the near future to live up to its obligations,
then the United States will not continue to negotiate indefinitely.

France and Britain have spoken of December as an informal deadline for
Iran to negotiate seriously about stopping enrichment and cooperate
fully with the International Atomic Energy Agency.  American officials
say that timeline is about right, but Iran continues to insist that it
has the right to enrich uranium for what it calls a purely civilian program.

Mr. Obama said Tehran must allow international inspectors into the site
near Qum within the next two weeks, a timeline Irans chief nuclear
negotiator, Saeed Jalili, agreed to here.

The atomic energy agencys director general, Mohamed ElBaradei, will
travel to Tehran this weekend to discuss the details and timing of the
inspections, officials said.  But the Americans also want Iran to
cooperate with the inspectors and make personnel and documents about the
site near Qum available.

Besides the scheduling of another meeting, the main practical
accomplishment on Thursday was Irans agreement in principle -- to be
worked out by experts later this month in Vienna -- to ship what
American officials called most of its declared stockpile of lightly
enriched uranium to Russia and France to be turned into nuclear fuel.

While American officials refused to specify the amount, other Western
officials said it could be 1,200 kilograms, or more than 2,600 pounds,
of enriched uranium, which could be as much as 75 percent of Irans
declared stockpile.  While there may be hidden stocks of enriched
uranium, such a transfer, if it occurs, buys some time for further
negotiations, a senior American official said.

Given the assessment that Iran has made enough low-enriched uranium to
produce at least one nuclear weapon at some time in the future, a sharp
reduction in its stockpile would be a confidence-building measure to
alleviate tensions and buy us some diplomatic space, the official said.

Israel, the nation most concerned about a nuclear-armed Iran, has been
informed of the discussions, another American official said.

Irans uranium is enriched to about 3.5 to 5 percent, the officials
said; the Tehran reactor for making medical isotopes, last powered by
Argentine-made fuel in 1993, needs uranium enriched to 19.75 percent,
still far below weapons grade.  And that uranium must then be fabricated
into metal rods for the reactor.

Iran had told the International Atomic Energy Agency that it needed fuel
for the Tehran reactor before December 2010.  Washington, with its
allies, pushed the agency to offer Iran the fuel, but made from Irans
own enriched uranium as a feedstock.  Mr. Jalili agreed to that in
principle on Thursday.

The talks were between Iran and the five permanent members of the United
Nations Security Council -- the United States, Russia, China, Britain
and France  as well as Germany, and led by the European Unions foreign
policy chief, Javier Solana.

The tone of the discussions, held just outside Geneva, was considerably
more positive than just a week ago, after the United States revealed the
existence of the uranium enrichment site near Qom and, with its European
allies, threatened Iran with tough new sanctions if it refused to halt
its uranium enrichment program, which they suspect is meant for creating
atomic weapons.

This was a day very much for the engagement track of the two-track
strategy, a senior American official said, with the second track --
increased sanctions -- to be discussed only if this new round of
negotiations founders.

After a plenary session in the morning, the participants adjourned to a
lunch where informal discussions continued, followed by three hours of
informal bilateral meetings.  Those included a 45-minute session between
the chief American diplomat here, Under Secretary of State William J.
Burns, and Mr. Jalili, the highest level United States-Iranian talks in
three decades.

Mr. Burns raised a range of topics, including the nuclear dispute and
the plant near Qom and human-rights issues, American officials said,
while the Iranians raised their own concerns, including the need for a
world free of nuclear bombs and access to peaceful nuclear energy for all.

Mr. Jalili, in a news conference, called the discussions good talks
that will be a framework for better talks, and expressed satisfaction
that the world had engaged with Irans global agenda, which includes
nuclear disarmament.  He denied that there were any other Iranian
nuclear facilities hidden from the I.A.E.A.

Many diplomats and analysts believe that the plant near Qom is only one
of a series of hidden installations that Iran has constructed, in
addition to its publicly acknowledged ones, for what is considered to be
a military program. Iran insists that its program is purely peaceful and
that it has a right under the nonproliferation treaty to enrich uranium
for peaceful purposes.  But it has regularly lied to the United Nations
and the International Atomic Energy Agency about its facilities.

Despite the uncertainties, nuclear experts hailed the tentative
agreements.  Its significant, David Albright, president of the
Institute for Science and International Security, a private group in
Washington that tracks nuclear proliferation, said.  The principle is
important.

Mr. Albright said the amount of low-enriched uranium to be shipped out
of Iran was also significant. Irans stockpile has worried some arms
controllers, who fear that Tehran may drop out of the Nuclear
Nonproliferation Treaty and further enrich the material into fuel for a
bomb.

The new accord would end that prospect -- at least for the exported uranium.

Mr. Albright cautioned that the deal would become a real solution only
if Iran expanded the accord to cover all the uranium that it wanted
enriched.  Irans made a concession, he said.  But it has little
meaning for the long term unless Iran continues to send out its uranium
for enrichment.

--Steven Erlanger reported from Geneva, and Mark Landler from
Washington. Reporting was contributed by Helene Cooper from Washington,
Sharon Otterman and William J. Broad from New York, and Neil MacFarquhar
from the United Nations.

--
Carol Moore in DC
http://carolmoore.net/
http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
http://youtube.com/carolmoore
http://secession.net
http://stopthewarnow.net
http://whatwouldgandhido.net
http://radicalbuttons.com

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#7854 From: marc guttman <marc_guttman@...>
Date: Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:58 am
Subject: When will we learn? Posted: September 12, 2001
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Harry Browne Harry Browne

When will we learn? - part 1

Posted: September 12, 2001
1:00 am Eastern

By Harry Browne
© 2009 WorldNetDaily.com



The terrorist attacks against America comprise a horrible tragedy. But they shouldn't be a surprise.

It is well known that in war, the first casualty is truth – that during any war truth is forsaken for propaganda. But sanity was a prior casualty: it was the loss of sanity that led to war in the first place.

Our foreign policy has been insane for decades. It was only a matter of time until Americans would have to suffer personally for it. It is a terrible tragedy of life that the innocent so often have to suffer for the sins of the guilty.

When will we learn that we can't allow our politicians to bully the world without someone bullying back eventually?

President Bush has authorized continued bombing of innocent people in Iraq. President Clinton bombed innocent people in the Sudan, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Serbia. President Bush, senior, invaded Iraq and Panama. President Reagan bombed innocent people in Libya and invaded Grenada. And on and on it goes.

Did we think the people who lost their families and friends and property in all that destruction would love America for what happened?

When will we learn that violence always begets violence?

Teaching lessons

Supposedly, Reagan bombed Libya to teach Muammar al-Qaddafi a lesson about terrorism. But shortly thereafter a TWA plane was destroyed over Scotland, and our government is convinced it was Libyans who did it.

When will we learn that "teaching someone a lesson" never teaches anything but resentment – that it only inspires the recipient to greater acts of defiance.

How many times on Tuesday did we hear someone describe the terrorist attacks as "cowardly acts"? But as misguided and despicable as they were, they were anything but cowardly. The people who committed them knowingly gave their lives for whatever stupid beliefs they held.

But what about the American presidents who order bombings of innocent people – while the presidents remain completely insulated from any danger? What would you call their acts?

When will we learn that forsaking truth and reason in the heat of battle almost always assures that we will lose the battle?

Losing our last freedoms

And now, as sure as night follows day, we will be told we must give up more of our freedoms to avenge what never should have happened in the first place.

When will we learn that it makes no sense to give up our freedoms in the name of freedom?

What to do?

What should be done?

First of all, stop the hysteria. Stand back and ask how this could have happened. Ask how a prosperous country isolated by two oceans could have so embroiled itself in other people's business that someone would want to do us harm. Even sitting in the middle of Europe, Switzerland isn't beset by terrorist attacks, because the Swiss mind their own business.

Second, resolve that we won't let our leaders use this occasion to commit their own terrorist acts upon more innocent people, foreign and domestic, that will inspire more terrorist attacks in the future.

Third, find a way, with enforceable constitutional limits, to prevent our leaders from ever again provoking this kind of anger against America.

Patriotism?

There are those who will say this article is unpatriotic and un-American – that this is not a time to question our country or our leaders.

When will we learn that without freedom and sanity, there is no reason to be patriotic?


When will we learn? – part 2

Posted: September 14, 2001
1:00 am Eastern

By Harry Browne
© 2009 WorldNetDaily.com



My article last Tuesday "When Will We Learn?" provoked more controversy than anything I've ever written. In case there was any misunderstanding, here is what I believe:

  1. The terrorist attack was a horrible tragedy and I feel enormous sympathy for those who were personally affected by it. I wrote my article hoping that, however unlikely, it might be possible to prevent such a thing from ever happening again.
  2. I hope anyone responsible for the attack who didn't die in it will be found, tried, and punished appropriately.
  3. Terrorism by definition is the killing of innocent people in order to bring about some political or social change.
  4. Terrorism may cause some changes in the short term, but it never leads to a conclusive victory, because it provokes a never-ending cycle of escalating violence on both sides.
  5. The U.S. government has engaged in acts of terrorism over the past few decades – bombing and starving innocent people in foreign countries, supposedly to force their leaders to make changes the U.S. government desires. Terrorism doesn't become "policing" or "justice" merely because it is our government doing it.
  6. All Iraqis are not Saddam Hussein; all Serbs aren't Slobodan Milosevic; all Afghanis (or Saudis) are not Osama Bin Laden.
  7. Killing innocent people in retaliation for the sins of other people isn't justice – it is terrorism. The terrorists were wrong to kill Americans to satisfy their grievances against American foreign policy. And to react to them by killing innocent foreigners would also be terrorism.
  8. You can't make productive decisions at a time when your mind is clouded by anger resentment, or thoughts of revenge.

The reactions I've received have been roughly 50-50 regarding my position. Here are some of the objections people have made against my position.

Timing

"This was a bad time for you to say, 'I told you so' in such a poor fashion."

I'm not saying, "I told you so." I'm trying to stop future madness – against Americans and against foreigners. Should I wait until after our military invades Afghanistan before speaking out?


"Now, of all times, is the time when we must support one another for the best."

That doesn't mean supporting the ill-conceived policies that led to this event.


"It is time for our people to pull together against these sick terrorists. We could use your help too."

To do what? Encourage our politicians to continue doing the very things that led to this? You're demonstrating why I had to write the article. If we stand behind our leaders now, letting them speak for us "as one voice," nothing will change. We will continue to see more acts by our government that will lead to more terrorist attacks on the U.S.


"Don't tell me to 'stop the hysteria.' This event merits hysteria, anger, sadness, and fear. I will be hysterical because it is the only thing I can do to show my countrymen that I mourn them."

Hysteria creates lynch mobs and more killing of innocent people. Grief, anger, and resentment are all natural reactions to what happened. But letting your emotions make bad decisions is not a productive reaction.


"What's done is done and now we're in the middle of this terrible mess. Maybe you're right, maybe we should not be surprised that something was bound to happen. But, now what? We don't need people criticizing our past mistakes at this moment. Save that for later. Right now we need immediate action."

If we don't understand the past mistakes, the "immediate action" taken will simply repeat those mistakes. Is that what you want?

My Motives

"You have lost my support by your political posturing in a time of crisis."

Political posturing? Do you really think I expected to receive adulation for writing an article that goes so sharply against current public opinion?


"It sickens me that you would use this tragedy this way."

In what way? To try to stop it from happening again? To try to stop our politicians from running off and bombing more innocent people? As a normally public voice, should I sit quietly by and not point out that our politicians are continually putting innocent Americans in harm's way by terrorizing innocent foreigners?

I understand your outrage and emotional reaction, but we must hold our own politicians accountable for the anger they are causing around the world with their careless, dangerous, show-off tactics.


"Please leave the United States. You do not deserve to remain here with this type of un-American diatribe which only serves to support the voices of moderation."

I thought this is supposed to be a free country in which everyone was allowed to speak his mind. I guess I misunderstood. I didn't realize it was a crime to try to stop a lynching.

The Libertarian Party

"Using this event as a means to bolster the Libertarian party is despicable and it is disgusting."

It appears that standing up for what one believes isn't a way to bolster the popularity of the Libertarian Party. But that's what Libertarians often do – especially when no one else will.


"You have forever ended any chance of my supporting the Libertarian party, unless you resign from any and all leadership positions immediately."

You'll be pleased to know I don't hold any leadership position in the Libertarian Party. I am a private citizen who grieves for what the politicians have done to my country and to the innocents who die in America and abroad. Many Libertarians disagree with my position, so you shouldn't judge the Libertarian Party by me.

Retaliation

"We must deter the next attack with the fiery sword of vengeance, not some limp, liberal, why-can't-we-be-let-alone weak response."

We have done that already – bombing Libya, invading Panama, bombing a perfume factory in the Sudan, bombing Afghanistan. Did those "fiery sword(s) of vengeance" deter the next attack?


"Bomb Kabul into oblivion."

As I recall, Kabul is the capital of Afghanistan, which is run by the same "Freedom Fighters" our own government gave so much money and military hardware to in the 1980s. Before we run off bombing innocent people (or is every Afghani guilty of the World Trade Center bombing?), shouldn't we question the American foreign policy that put those people in power in Afghanistan? Or is it bad timing to bring that up now?


"Once you know the face of your enemy destroy him completely and you will never need fight him again. America is at war. To win a war it must be fought in totality."

A war against whom? Against people like the one million Iraqis who have died of starvation or disease because of the American blockade? Against people like the innocents who died in the bombings of the Sudan and Afghanistan?

Everytime our leaders say, "We must make sure this will never happen again," they do something to assure that it will happen again. I wrote my article in the vain hope it might help people to think twice before demanding the wrong action.


"Do you think these terrorists can really be reasoned with?"

I didn't say they could. I said we shouldn't give them legitimate reasons to direct their misguided zeal at the U.S.


"Don't you think a soft response would just encourage more terrorism?"

I hope the people who were involved are found, tried, and punished. I don't consider that a soft response. But I don't want any more innocent people hurt – Americans or foreigners.


"This is not the time to run and bury our heads in the sand. Someone has to stand up to bullies wherever they are! Like the Nazis; the only good Religious Fundamentalist is one that is in heaven! Not only is it a time for the U.S. to take action but to OCCUPY ALL ARAB LANDS, since their Religious leaders 'preach' the Jihad."

Did I mention that there was a lot of hysteria and a lynch-mob sentiment right now?


"You totally lost your credibility with me when you suggest that any military response will basically serve no purpose."

The U.S. went to Vietnam to stop the Communist dominos from falling, and the entire region fell to the communists. The U.S. invaded Panama, supposedly to end drug-dealing there, and today Panama is more overrun with the drug trade than ever. After years of arming Saddam Hussein, the U.S. invaded Iraq to get rid of him, but he is still held up as a terrible threat to the world. The U.S. bombed Libya to teach terrorists a lesson; so the terrorists hijacked the Pan American plane over Scotland.

Perhaps you could give me an example of where U.S. military response in the past several decades has achieved any purpose.

Obviously, the individuals involved in the attacks should be found, prosecuted, and punished. But going to war against another country or some vague conspiracy will solve no more than the examples I just gave.


"At this time, past wrongful deeds committed by Americans should not play a role in our reaction to this horrible event. We have to retaliate once we confirm who is responsible. Otherwise, even more horrific events are sure to occur in the future."

We have retaliated in the past, and still horrific events followed. What I'm hoping for is a different kind of reaction this time – one that will actually change American policy so that we never again suffer what happened this week.

Corrections & Caution

"I would like to point out that the airliner destroyed over Scotland was a PanAm plane, not TWA."

You are right. In my haste to get the article finished, I was careless in relying on my imperfect memory and not looking it up.


"I put my Harry Browne for President stickers back up in my dorm room yesterday."

Please, take them down before you get lynched.

More to come.


Related columns:


When will we learn? – part 3

When will we learn? – part 4


Harry Browne (June 17, 1933 – March 1, 2006) was an American libertarian writer, politician, and free-market investment analyst. He ran for President of the United States as the nominee of the Libertarian Party in 1996 and 2000.




#7853 From: Carol Moore in DC <fightpatriarchy@...>
Date: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:05 pm
Subject: Bolton wants Israel to attack Iran, US to support by end of 2009
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http://news.google.com/news/search?pz=1&ned=us&hl=en&q=john+Bolton+Iran
including:

Russia Today news story on interview with Bolton:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZMno_lOTEk

Partial text
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,536561,00.html





--
Carol Moore in DC
http://carolmoore.net/
http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
http://youtube.com/carolmoore
http://secession.net
http://stopthewarnow.net
http://whatwouldgandhido.net
http://radicalbuttons.com

NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
the National Security Agency may have read this
email without judicial or legislative oversight
or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.

#7852 From: Carol Moore in DC <fightpatriarchy@...>
Date: Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:48 am
Subject: Recent Iran News Source
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In case you get behind... here's a sample last couple days:
http://www.antiwar.com/regions/regions.php?c=Iran

#  Iranian Leaders Urge Protections for Detained Protesters
7/28/2009
# Appeals Court Keeps Alive Suit Against Iran
7/28/2009
# Nonmilitary Actions Can Deter Iran, Gates Says; Barak Doubtful
7/28/2009
# 140 Prisoners From Iran Election Crackdown Freed
7/28/2009
# US General: Iran Working to Influence Iraq Vote
7/28/2009
# US Envoys in Israel to Discuss Iran's Nuclear Ambitions
7/28/2009
# Iraqi Forces Raid Camp of Iranian Exiles
7/28/2009
# Iran Turns Inward, Silent on US Outreach
7/28/2009
# Iran Supreme Leader Closes Prison Over Abuses
7/28/2009
# Iran Supreme Leader Closes Prison Over Abuses
7/28/2009
# Reports of Prison Abuse and Deaths Anger Iranians
7/28/2009
# Clinton to Israel: Iran Will Never Have Nukes
7/28/2009
# Ahmadinejad Faces Hardline Revolt in Iran
7/27/2009
# Iranian Opposition Leader Calls on Supporters to Take to the Streets
7/27/2009
# Firing and Resignation Indicate Tension Between President and Supreme
Leader
7/27/2009
# Israel on Iran: Anything It Takes to Stop Nukes
7/27/2009
# Court Finds Iran Minister Guilty of Fraud
7/27/2009
# Israeli Envoy Blames Iran for Stalled Peace Process
7/27/2009
# Gates Says US Overture to Iran Is 'Not Open-Ended'
7/27/2009
# Barak: No Option Is Off the Table on Iran
7/27/2009
# Israel's Barak: 'No Option' Off Table on Iran
7/27/2009
# Report: Iran's Ahmadinejad Dismisses Two Ministers
7/26/2009
# Ahmadinejad 'Sacks Four Iran Ministers'
7/26/2009
# Clinton Says Israel Should Be Patient on Iran
7/26/2009
# Another Iran Protester Dies in Jail: Report
7/26/2009
# Revolutionary Guard Tightens Hold in Iran Crisis
7/26/2009
# Iran's Rafsanjani Defies Clergy Criticism, Stands by Demands
7/26/2009
# Clinton Warns Iranians on Making Nuclear Fuel
7/26/2009
# Iran's Opposition Asks to Mourn Iconic Victim
7/26/2009
# Ahmadinejad Backs Off Cabinet Reshuffle in Face of Parliamentary Vote
7/26/2009
# Clinton's Iran 'Defense Umbrella' Has Murky History
7/25/2009
# Allies Censure Ahmadinejad Over Delay in Deputy's Ouster
7/25/2009
# Iran's Ahmadinejad Suffers Blow as VP Sacked
7/25/2009

--
Carol Moore in DC
http://carolmoore.net/
http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
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http://stopthewarnow.net
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#7851 From: marc guttman <marc_guttman@...>
Date: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:16 am
Subject: Video: Greg Mortenson
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http://www.oslofreedomforum.com/speakers/greg-mortenson.html

THE NOBILITY OF THE HUMAN SPIRIT & THE POWER OF FREEDOM
TESTIMONIES TO HUMAN DIGNITY & CHARACTER
Oslo Freedom Forum

Greg Mortenson | Greg Mortenson is the co-founder and executive director of the nonprofit Central Asia Institute (CAI). Since a 1993 climb on Pakistan's K2, the world’s second highest mountain, he has dedicated his life to promoting community-based education and literacy programs in remote mountain regions of Pakistan and Afghanistan. Despite many threats to his life and freedom, including an armed kidnapping, a firefight, and CIA investigations, he has labored fearlessly to establish 78 schools in rural and often volatile areas, providing education to over 28,000 children, including 18,000 girls. He also founded Pennies For Peace, a program that complements CAI’s work by encouraging young students from the US to donate money to Pakistani and Afghan children for their education. He is the co-author of the #1 New York Times best-seller, Three Cups of Tea: One Man's Mission to Promote Peace...One School At A Time.

Download Speech Transcript Here

Three Cups of Tea: One Man's Mission to Promote Peace...One School At A Time is a great book.  -Marc




#7850 From: marc guttman <marc_guttman@...>
Date: Thu Jul 16, 2009 5:39 pm
Subject: The Obama justice system
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The Obama Justice System
by Glenn Greenwald
Salon.com


http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/07/08/obama/index.html

salon.com


The Obama justice system

(Updated below - Update II - Update III - Update IV - Update V)

Spencer Ackerman yesterday attended a Senate hearing at which the DOD's General Counsel, Jeh Johnson, testified.  As Ackerman highlighted, Johnson actually said that even for those detainees to whom the Obama administration deigns to give a real trial in a real court, the President has the power to continue to imprison them indefinitely even if they are acquitted at their trial.  About this assertion of "presidential post-acquittal detention power" -- an Orwellian term (and a Kafka-esque concept) that should send shivers down the spine of anyone who cares at all about the most basic liberties -- Ackerman wrote, with some understatement, that it "moved the Obama administration into new territory from a civil liberties perspective."  Law professor Jonathan Turley was more blunt:  "The Obama Administration continues its retention and expansion of abusive Bush policies — now clearly Obama policies on indefinite detention." 

In June, Robert Gibbs was repeatedly asked by ABC News' Jake Tapper whether accused Terrorists who were given a trial and were acquitted would be released as a result of the acquittal, but Gibbs -- amazingly -- refused to make that commitment.  But this is the first time an Obama official has affirmatively stated that they have the "post-acquittal detention" power (and, to my knowledge, the Bush administration never claimed the power to detain someone even if they were acquitted).

All of this underscores what has clearly emerged as the core "principle" of Obama justice when it comes to accused Terrorists -- namely, "due process" is pure window dressing with only one goal:   to ensure that anyone the President wants to keep imprisoned will remain in prison.  They'll create various procedures to prettify the process, but the outcome is always the same -- ongoing detention for as long as the President dictates.   This is how I described it when Obama first unveiled his proposal of preventive detention:

If you really think about the argument Obama made yesterday -- when he described the five categories of detainees and the procedures to which each will be subjected -- it becomes manifest just how profound a violation of Western conceptions of justice this is. What Obama is saying is this: we'll give real trials only to those detainees we know in advance we will convict. For those we don't think we can convict in a real court, we'll get convictions in the military commissions I'm creating. For those we can't convict even in my military commissions, we'll just imprison them anyway with no charges ("preventively detain" them).

After yesterday, we have to add an even more extreme prong to this policy:  if by chance we miscalculate and deign to give a trial to a detainee who is then acquitted, we'll still just keep them in prison anyway by presidential decree.  That added step renders my criticism of Obama's conception of "justice" even more applicable:

Giving trials to people only when you know for sure, in advance, that you'll get convictions is not due process. Those are called "show trials." In a healthy system of justice, the Government gives everyone it wants to imprison a trial and then imprisons only those whom it can convict. The process is constant (trials), and the outcome varies (convictions or acquittals).

Obama is saying the opposite: in his scheme, it is the outcome that is constant (everyone ends up imprisoned), while the process varies and is determined by the Government (trials for some; military commissions for others; indefinite detention for the rest). The Government picks and chooses which process you get in order to ensure that it always wins. A more warped "system of justice" is hard to imagine.

In today's Wall St. Journal, which also reported that "the Obama administration said Tuesday it could continue to imprison non-U.S. citizens indefinitely even if they have been acquitted of terrorism charges," Rep. Jerry Nadler was quoted as saying something quite similar about the Obama approach:

"What bothers me is that they seem to be saying, 'Some people we have good enough evidence against, so we'll give them a fair trial. Some people the evidence is not so good, so we'll give them a less fair trial. We'll give them just enough due process to ensure a conviction because we know they're guilty. That's not a fair trial, that's a show trial," Mr. Nadler said.

Exactly.  Show trials are exactly what the Obama administration is planning.  In its own twisted way, the Bush approach was actually more honest and transparent:  they made no secret of their belief that the President could imprison anyone he wanted without any process at all.  That's clearly the Obama view as well, but he's creating an elaborate, multi-layered, and purely discretionary "justice system" that accomplishes exactly the same thing while creating the false appearance that there is due process being accorded.   And for those who -- to justify what Obama is doing -- make the not unreasonable point that Bush left Obama with a difficult quandary at Guantanamo, how will that excuse apply when these new detention powers are applied not only to existing Guantanamo detainees but to future (i.e., not-yet-abducted) detainees as well?

Whatever else is true, even talking about imprisoning people based on accusations of which they have been exonerated is a truly grotesque perversion of everything that our justice system and Constitution are supposed to guarantee.  That's one of those propositions that ought to be too self-evident to need stating.

* * * * *

Several related points:  Spencer also notes that Johnson testified yesterday about the possibility that Guantanamo might remain open beyond January, 2010 -- the date Obama, to much fanfare, established as the deadline for closing that prison.  That decision is one of the very few to which Obama defenders can cling in order to claim there are significant differences between his approach to these issues and the Bush/Cheney approach. 

Meanwhile, former Guantanamo detainee Binyam Mohamed is engaged in what The Guardian calls "an urgent legal attempt to prevent the US courts from destroying crucial evidence that he says proves he was abused while being held at the detention camp detainee."  The photographs -- which show Mohamed after he had been severely beaten and which he claims was posted on the door to his cage "because he had been beaten so badly that it was difficult for the guards to identify him" -- is scheduled to be destroyed by the U.S. Government, an act The Washington Independent's Alexandra Jaffe calls "another black mark on the Obama administration’s promised transparency."

Finally, I was on an NPR station yesterday in Seattle to discuss NPR's ban on the use of the word "torture" to describe Bush administration interrogation tactics.  I originally understood that I would be on with NPR Ombudsman Alicia Shepard, but alas, it turns out that she agreed only to be on the show before me, so as not to engage or otherwise interact with me, so I was forced to listen to her for 15 minutes and wait until she hung up before being able to speak.  The segment can be heard here, beginning at the 14:00 mark (though the quality of the recording is poor in places).   

The most noteworthy point was her explicit statement (at 17:50) that "the role of a news organization is to lay out the debate"; rarely is the stenographic model of "journalism" -- "we just repeat what each side says and leave it at that" -- so expressly advocated (and see Jon Stewart's perfect mockery of that view).  She also said -- when the host asked about the recent example I cited of NPR's calling what was done to a reporter in Gambia "torture" (at the 20:20 mark) -- that NPR will use the word "torture" to describe what other governments do because they do it merely to sadistically inflict pain on people while the U.S. did it for a noble reason:  to obtain information about Terrorist attacks.  That's really what she said:  that when the U.S. did it (as opposed to Evil countries), it was for a good reason.  Leaving aside the factual falsity of her claim about American motives, Shepard actually thinks that "torture" is determined by the motive with which the suffering is inflicted.  The connection between the Government's ability to get away with these things and the media's warped view of its role really cannot be overstated.

 

UPDATE: The ACLU's Ben Wizner emails to correct one point I made:   the Bush administration, like Obama is doing now, did claim the power of post-acquittal detentions.  Ben writes:

Glenn – You’re right that this is disgraceful, but not that it’s new. The Bush gang claimed the same authority in connection with Gitmo military commissions, which is why, paradoxically, the only way to get out of Gitmo if you were charged in a military commission was to plead guilty and strike a deal that included repatriation (as David Hicks did).

This is from an LA Times op-ed I wrote in 4/07:

Last Friday night, after a jury of senior military officers sentenced Hicks to seven years in prison, we all learned the details of that agreement: Hicks will serve a mere nine months -- a sentence more in keeping with a misdemeanor than with a grave terrorist offense.

This stunning turn of events highlights a cruelly ironic feature of detention at Guantanamo. In an ordinary justice system, the accused must be acquitted to be released.  In Guantanamo, the accused must plead guilty to be released -- because even if he is acquitted, he remains an "enemy combatant" subject to indefinite detention. Only by striking a deal does a detainee stand a chance of getting out.

So this is (another) one of those cases where Obama is embracing a radical Bush theory of power rather than inventing one of his own.

 

UPDATE II: The Weekly Standard's Michael Goldfarb, a former McCain aide, is someone who believes that the President possesses what he calls "near dictatorial power" when it comes to national security.  He has repeatedly praised Obama for maintaining Bush Terrorism policies.  But even Goldfarb is uncomfortable with Obama's assertion of "post-acquittal detention power":

I understand and respect the president's decision to disregard his left-wing critics and embrace the same policies of indefinite detention and denial of due process that made the Bush-Cheney administration so effective in preventing another terror attack. I support those policies because as illegal enemy combatants, terrorists have no right to due process. But, as Glenn Greenwald points out, there is something Orwellian about this administration's attempt to have it both ways -- to get the credit for putting detainees on trial only to disregard the outcome if they don't like the verdict. Obviously the Bush administration would have done the same if they thought for a second that they could get away with it. But even the Bush OLC wouldn't have dared suggest detaining individuals who had been acquitted on all charges.

As Ben Wizner's email in the prior update reflects, it's far from clear that "even the Bush OLC wouldn't have dared suggest detaining individuals who had been acquitted on all charges."  Still, if your assertions of executive power and denial of due process to Muslim detainees even make Michael "near dictatorial power" Goldfarb uncomfortable, that's a pretty compelling sign that you're way, way out there.

 

UPDATE III: When Kevin Drum read the above summary I wrote of how Alicia Shepard justified NPR's using "torture" to describe the acts of Gambia but not the U.S., he said he assumed I was exaggerating, because nobody could actually believe the explanation I attributed to Shepard -- that they do it for bad reasons and it's therefore "torture," while we do it for noble reasons and therefore it's not.  But then he listened to the show and transcribed Shepard's statement.  Kevin then wrote:

Wow. She really did say that, didn't she? When other people do it for other reasons, it's torture. When we do it for our reasons, it's not.

You don't usually find people willing to say this quite so baldly. Congratulations, Alicia Shepard.

Along those same lines, Jesse Levine, a long-time reader who is a government lawyer, emailed this to me today:

I just had the most bizarre conversation with Alicia Shepard. I called and told her I had been following the contretemps over NPR's use of the word torture and wanted to confirm that she had said what you had reported about her view of sadism vs. intelligence gathering as defining torture. She said she did and that it was a political question because it is torture on one hand and "tactics" on the other. I said I understood there was a political debate about whether torture was justified in certain circumstances, but again asked if an act itself was torture; specifically asking, "if you cut off someone's hand is it not torture whether motivated by sadism or intelligence gathering?" She said it was and then quickly shifted back to the torture vs. tactics meme. I gave up.

I've been going back and forth on whether Shepard's deficiency is primarily one of intellect or whether she's just a hard-core Cheneyite.  I'm now convinced -- after her statements yesterday on that show I did with after her -- that it's both.  

Anyone who can say that what we do is not "torture" because we do it for the right reasons -- whereas it's "torture" when those other countries do it because they're sadistic and bad -- is someone who is devoid of both basic reasoning skills and good motives.  This Saturday, at 2:30 p.m., in Washington, DC, Shepard will be appearing at this event to talk about "the role of the Ombudsman."  It's open to the public.  I don't know if there will be opportunity for questions, though one can always create that opportunity if one is so inclined.

 

UPDATE IV:  From Alice in Wonderland, Chapter 12:

"Let the jury consider their verdict," the King said, for about the twentieth time that day.

"No, no!” said the Queen. "Sentence first -- verdict afterward."

"Stuff and nonsense!" said Alice loudly. "The idea of having the sentence first!"

"Hold your tongue!" said the Queen, turning purple.

"I won’t!" said Alice.

"Off with her head!" the Queen shouted at the top of her voice.

The Queen's pronouncement -- "Sentence first -- verdict afterward" -- is a fine expression of Obama's approach here:  these prisoners are decreed to be Dangerous and Guilty and are sentenced to prolonged, indefinite, imprisonment and must not be released; now let's tailor a process for each of them to ensure that this verdict is produced.

 

 

UPDATE V:  Just compare Alicia Shepard's justification for why NPR calls Gambia's tactics "torture" but not America's -- they do it to inflict pain whereas we (supposedly) did it to extract information -- to the definition of "torture" in the Convention Against Torture, to which the U.S. has been a siganatory since 1988:

Part I, Article I:  For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity.

The entire civilized world has long defined "torture" to include tactics used to obtain information.  By virtue of Article VI of the U.S. Constitution, that definition is binding law ("supreme law") in the U.S.  But to NPR's Ombdusman, it's not "torture" if they are simply -- as she put it -- "tactics used to get information."  Those are the depths to which NPR is willing to sink in order to twist language and protect the Bush administration and the U.S. Government.

-- Glenn Greenwald

Salon Radio: Chuck Todd
What is the duty of the media in discussing and reporting on torture investigations?
Chuck Todd's arguments against investigations
Blocking investigations of those in political power is one of the unifying beliefs of establishment journalism.
CNN's journalism on the Cheney story
Two anonymous officials claim Cheney is getting a "bum rap" and CNN turns that into a news story.
Unasked Question about Sam Alito
Did Alito's Italian-American background determine his vote in Ricci?

Archives






#7849 From: "James F. Holwell" <mathscoach@...>
Date: Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:14 pm
Subject: Re: Why Torture is Evil
mathscoach@...
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Marc, thanks for sending this along.
I believe this link will interest you also....

After you view this video, or as much of it as you can take, tell me WHAT CAN WE 'GOOD GERMANS' DO ABOUT IT, now that we can almost smell the corpses left behind by you and me, kid.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20740.htm
Suggest you subscribe to Information Clearing House.
Send Tom an email at: "Tom Feeley" <emailtom@...>

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

And here is part of a radio broadcast by my associate, Swami Virato.
http://newfrontier.com/asheville/alternative-news-07-11-09.htm

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some of my favorite links are in the attached document
... Use them, pass on ones you think will help folks wake up and get together.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
_._,___No
Beloved Friend and Brother in Light,
Bless this process and see it as ultimately resulting in the Highest Good.
Let us envision and hold in our hearts as an outcome that this heroine* might one day be seen as leading the Way to Light, that her sacrifice may not be in vain.
Love you Dearly,
Sending thoughts of joy,
Tasha

* She refers to Alyssa Peterson.
Ask me about the Alyssa Peterson Society.


1 of 1 File(s)


#7848 From: marc guttman <marc_guttman@...>
Date: Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:08 am
Subject: Why Torture is Evil
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http://original.antiwar.com/will-van-wagenen/2009/07/08/why-torture-is-evil/

Antiwar.com

Why Torture is Evil

by Will Van Wagenen, July 09, 2009

Most defenders of torture rely on the argument that torture saves (American) lives, and that torture is therefore justified and moral. Such defenders often cite fantastic scenarios similar to the following: Imagine a terrorist group is planning to detonate a nuclear bomb in the middle of a major US city. Now imagine that one of the terrorists is captured by the CIA. The terrorist won’t reveal the information needed to stop the attack so he must be tortured until he gives up the information, allowing the CIA to stop the attack and save hundreds of thousands of lives. Such defenders then pose the question, "How could it be wrong to torture one evil person in order to save hundreds of thousands of lives?"  

In other words such defenders cite as their "proof" that torture is moral an imaginary scenario which has never occurred and which has no basis in reality.  In fact, US Supreme court justice Antonin Scalia defended the use of torture at a legal conference in Canada in this way by specifically referencing the popular television drama 24, in which the fictional US special agent Jack Bauer routinely tortures terror suspects to save American lives in situations similar to that described above. Scalia stated: 

Jack Bauer saved Los Angeles… . He saved hundreds of thousands of lives… Are you going to convict Jack Bauer?… Say that criminal law is against him? "You have the right to a jury trial?" Is any jury going to convict Jack Bauer? I don’t think so.

Recently, former Vice President Dick Cheney used essentially this rationale to defend the Bush administration’s use of enhanced interrogation techniques, such as waterboarding, stress positions, sleep deprivation, and exposure to extreme temperatures, which the International Committee of the Red Cross says constitute torture. Cheney stated that, "I am convinced, absolutely convinced, that we saved thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of lives," by using such techniques and called the federal government’s efforts to prevent terror attacks since 2001 "one of the greatest success stories of American intelligence." 

Sadly, Cheney’s claim about the virtues of torture is more no connected to reality than is Scalia’s. Cheney’s defense of torture rests on three false and/or highly questionable assumptions: Firstly, that saving lives was the Bush administration’s primary purpose for introducing the use of torture; secondly that the intelligence gained by torture actually prevented attacks on the American homeland; thirdly, that torture actually saved American lives generally. 

This first assumption is incorrect because much of the torture Cheney is now retrospectively defending had nothing to do with saving American lives, but rather with obtaining evidence that a link existed between al-Qaeda and the Iraqi government. Colonel Lawrence B. Wilkerson, former chief of staff of the Department of State during the term of Secretary of State Colin Powell, reports that:

Likewise, what I have learned is that as the administration authorized harsh interrogation in April and May of 2002 — well before the Justice Department had rendered any legal opinion — its principal priority for intelligence was not aimed at pre-empting another terrorist attack on the U.S. but discovering a smoking gun linking Iraq and al-Qaeda. So furious was this effort that on one particular detainee, even when the interrogation team had reported to Cheney’s office that their detainee "was compliant" (meaning the team recommended no more torture), the VP’s office ordered them to continue the enhanced methods. The detainee had not revealed any al-Qaeda-Baghdad contacts yet. This ceased only after Ibn al-Shaykh al-Libi, under waterboarding in Egypt, "revealed" such contacts. Of course later we learned that al-Libi revealed these contacts only to get the torture to stop. There in fact were no such contacts.

Such a link was crucial to find in order to implicate the Iraqi regime in the 9/11 attacks, which could then provide a justification for the US to invade Iraq and install a new pro-US government, something which prominent members of the Bush administration had been advocating since at least 1998, and for reasons that had nothing to do with international Islamic terror groups. 

Under duress of torture (where Egyptian interrogators also made him believe he would be buried alive), Al-Libi fabricated the story that the Iraqi government trained al-Qaeda operatives in chemical and biological warfare. This incorrect information was cited by President Bush in a speech on Oct 7, 2002 and by Secretary of State Colin Powell at his famous speech at the United Nations on February 5, 2003, and proved crucial in giving the Bush administration sufficient domestic and international support to launch the invasion of Iraq in mid-march 2003. 

So torture after 9/11 had more to do with starting a new war in which further American lives would be lost than with saving Americans from future terror attacks.   

The second assumption underlying Cheney’s argument, that the intelligence gained by torture has prevented attacks against the American homeland, is highly questionable. Cheney claims that, "Every senior official who has been briefed on these classified matters knows of specific attacks that were in the planning stages and were stopped by the programs we put in place." However, a May 2004 report by the CIA inspector general contradicts this claim, noting that the enhanced interrogation program produced some useful information but that "it is difficult to determine conclusively whether interrogations have provided information critical to interdicting specific imminent attacks," according to a declassified Justice Department memo summarizing the report.  

Additionally, Milton Bearden, former CIA station chief of the Pakistan, Nigeria, and Sudan offices, says that Cheney’s claims are likely false, noting that if such proof did exist, "I cannot imagine that the system would not have leaked such a story. It would have been leaked in a New York minute." Until evidence to support Cheney’s claim is produced, it is impossible to know that any attacks on the American homeland have been prevented.  

What is clear and indisputable, however, is that Cheney’s torture policy has directly led to the deaths of thousands of US servicemen and women, thus refuting the third assumption underlying Cheney’s claim, namely that torture has saved American lives. Let me explain how this is the case: Once the US had successfully occupied Iraq, the US Army began to meet resistance from a variety of armed groups, whose stated goal was to expel the American occupiers. Rather than order the withdrawal of the US Army from Iraq and remove US troops from harm’s way (the obvious choice if preserving American lives is one’s priority), the Bush administration remained determined to establish a long-term military presence in the country. In order to defeat the fledgling Iraqi insurgency, which targeted US troops with road side bombs, mortars, and sniper fire, it now became crucial to gather intelligence that could prevent such attacks. Because US intelligence gathering was poor, the US military resorted to the wide-scale round up and interrogation of thousands of adult Iraqi males (as well as some women and children), 70% to 90% of which were arrested by mistake, according to US intelligence officials.  

US interrogators in Iraq and Afghanistan soon began using many of the enhanced interrogation techniques pioneered in Guantánamo and the secret CIA prisons on these detainees. According to a report written by former Defense Secretary James Schlesinger, the "augmented techniques for Guantánamo migrated to Afghanistan and Iraq where they were neither limited nor safeguarded," resulting in the torture of Iraqi and Afghan detainees in a fashion far more brutal than the torture methods officially endorsed by top Bush Administration officials.  

Methods of abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan have included stuffing a detainee into a sleeping bag, wrapping him with electrical cord, and suffocating him to death; covering a detainee’s head with a plastic bag, then shackling him "in a crucifixion-like pose that inhibited his ability to breathe" until he died of asphyxiation, and until the guard on duty was surprised the detainees’ arms "didn’t pop out of their sockets;" beating a detainee "with a flashlight so severely that he eventually died from his injuries;" stripping detainees naked and forcing them to masturbate; "[b]reaking chemical lights and pouring the phosphoric liquid on detainees; pouring cold water on naked detainees; beating detainees with a broom handle and a chair; threatening male detainees with rape; allowing a military police guard to stitch the wound of a detainee who was injured after being slammed against the wall in his cell; [and] sodomizing a detainee with a chemical light."

US Army interrogator Tony Lagouranis, who served in various US prisons throughout Iraq, including in the notorious Abu Ghraib prison, described how the rationale of torturing prisoners to save American lives led US interrogators to torture not only suspected insurgents, but also regular Iraqis known to be innocent as well:  

Once introduced into war, torture will inevitably spread because the ticking bombs are everywhere. Each and every prisoner, without exception, has the potential to be the one that provides the information that will save American lives. So if you accept the logic that we have to perform torture to prevent deaths, each and every prisoner is deserving of torture. In a situation like Iraq, it wasn’t just a few abstract lives that might be saved somewhere, at some future time. The mortars came almost every day. The life in question was my very own. Once we accepted that any prisoner might be holding information that could save lives, we gladly used everything in our tool box on everyone. This resulted in the expansion of the class of people who could be tortured. Now it included people who had been picked up for questioning but were not being suspected of  being insurgents, and it included people who were picked up on hunches — people against whom we had no solid evidence — and it included relatives of our real targets. Again, I see the spread of torture to these groups as natural and inevitable. At the time, I barely noticed it happening (See Fear Up Harsh: An Army Interrogators Dark Journey Through Iraq, by Tony Lagouranis, pg. 245).

Public outrage among Iraqis, as well as Arabs from neighboring countries, as a result of the US use of torture, caused the ranks of those wishing to fight the American occupiers to swell. This in turn caused the number of attacks against US troops in Iraq to increase, leading to higher American casualties. Matthew Alexander, who led an interrogations team assigned to a Special Operations task force in Iraq in 2006, and who was responsible for obtaining the intelligence which led to the US military killing the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq, Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, described how the use of torture contributed to an increase in US military deaths in Iraq:  

I learned in Iraq that the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked there to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo. Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda in Iraq. The large majority of suicide bombings in Iraq are still carried out by these foreigners. They are also involved in most of the attacks on U.S. and coalition forces in Iraq. It’s no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, but it is fair to say that it is close to the number of lives lost on Sept. 11, 2001. How anyone can say that torture keeps Americans safe is beyond me — unless you don’t count American soldiers as Americans.

Alexander’s view is reinforced by the 2006 National Intelligence Estimate (abbreviated as NIE, it is a report representing the consensus view of the 16 US intelligence agencies, including the CIA). The New York Times reported that the NIE concluded that "the American invasion and occupation of Iraq has helped spawn a new generation of Islamic radicalism and that the overall terrorist threat has grown since the Sept. 11 attacks," while previous drafts of the NIE "describe actions by the United States government that were determined to have stoked the jihad movement, like the indefinite detention of prisoners at Guantánamo Bay and the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal." 

So not only has torture not saved any American lives, it has actually led to more Americans being killed and increased the overall terrorist threat to America. But what was the alternative? After 9/11, did the Bush Administration have any other choice? Yes. Rather than announcing that the protections of the Geneva Conventions did not apply to US-held detainees and introducing enhanced interrogation techniques, thus opening the door to even more heinous forms of torture, Cheney and his colleagues could have dealt with the problem of terrorism by pursuing the criminals who carried out the 9/11 atrocities using the police and interrogation methods of the FBI. They could have refrained from invading Iraq, a country which had never attacked US soil and had no part in 9/11, and thereby avoided killing tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians. Even after the invasion of Iraq had taken place, the Bush administration could have withdrawn US troops from that country once resistance to the US occupation began, and after it became clear that most Iraqis did not welcome the US presence. Instead, they chose to impose their will on Iraqis by torture and violence, and put Americans in harms way in the process. 

But what if you really could save hundreds of thousands of lives by torturing a terrorist, and thereby stop a massive, imminent attack on an American city? If such a scenario were to present itself, it would be reasonable to say that torturing that person would be moral. However, because such a scenario exists only in our imaginations, the question of whether the use of torture is moral in such a circumstance is irrelevant. Instead, we can be sure that anyone using such a rationale to endorse the use of torture in the real world is doing so to justify a policy that will, in reality, lead to the torture of hundreds if not thousands of innocents, as has actually occurred in Iraq. That is why torture is illegal under international law under all circumstances, and why Tony Lagouranis, the Army interrogator quoted above and who himself participated in torturing Iraqi detainees, feels that, "If you don’t include torturing helpless prisoners in your definition of evil, your definition of evil is meaningless." 





#7847 From: Carol Moore in DC <fightpatriarchy@...>
Date: Sat Jul 11, 2009 11:33 pm
Subject: Israeli sub sails Suez, signaling reach to Iran
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http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE5621XZ20090703

Israeli sub sails Suez, signaling reach to Iran

Fri Jul 3, 2009 1:27pm EDT
By Dan Williams

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - An Israeli submarine sailed the Suez Canal to
the Red Sea as part of a naval drill last month, defense sources said
on Friday, describing the unusual maneuver as a show of strategic
reach in the face of Iran.

Israel long kept its three Dolphin-class submarines, which are widely
assumed to carry nuclear missiles, away from Suez so as not to expose
them to the gaze of Egyptian harbormasters.

It was unclear when last month the vessel left the Mediterranean. One
source said the voyage was planned for months and so was not related
to unrest after the June 12 re-election of President Mahmoud
Ahmadinejad, whom the Israelis see as promoting the pursuit of
nuclear weapons to threaten them.

Sailing to the Gulf without using Suez would oblige the diesel-fueled
Israeli submarines, normally based in the Mediterranean, to
circumnavigate Africa -- a weeks-long voyage. That would have limited
use in signaling Israel's readiness to retaliate should it ever come
under an Iranian nuclear attack.

Shorter-term, the submarines' conventional missiles could also be
deployed in any Israeli strikes on Iran's atomic sites, which Tehran
insists have only civilian energy purposes.

A defense source said the Israeli navy held an exercise off Eilat
last month and that a Dolphin took part, having traveled to the Red
Sea port though Suez. Israel has a naval base at Eilat, a 10-km (6-
mile) strip of coast between Egypt and Jordan, but officials say it
has no submarine dock there.

"This was definitely a departure from policy," said the source, who
declined to give further details on the drill or say whether the
Dolphin had undergone Egyptian inspections in the canal, through
which the submarine sailed unsubmerged.

A military spokeswoman had no immediate comment on the voyage, first
reported on Friday by the Jerusalem Post.

EGYPTIAN POSITION

Egyptian officials at Suez said they would neither confirm nor deny
reports regarding military movements. One official said that if there
was such a passage by Israelis in the canal, it would not be
problematic as Egypt and Israel are not at war.

Egypt is one of only two Arab states to have signed a peace treaty
with Israel, but relations remain cool. However, Arab states that are
allies of the United States appear to share some of Israel's concerns
about non-Arab Iran's nuclear program.

Israel is assumed to have the Middle East's only atomic arsenal, but
does not discuss this under an "ambiguity" policy billed as deterring
its enemies while avoiding provocations.

Another Israeli defense source with extensive naval experience said
the drill "showed that we can far more easily access the Indian
Ocean, and the Gulf, than before."

But the source added: "If indeed our subs are capable of doing to
Iran what they are believed to be capable of doing, then surely this
is a capability that can be put into action from the Mediterranean?"

Each German-made Dolphin has 10 torpedo tubes, four of them widened
at Israel's request -- to accommodate, some independent analysts
believe, nuclear-tipped cruise missiles. But there have been
questions about whether these would have the 1,500-km (1,000-mile)
range needed to hit Iran from the Mediterranean.

Israel plans to acquire two more Dolphins early next decade. Naval
analysts say this could allow it to set up a rotation whereby some of
the submarines patrol distant shores while others secure the Israeli
coast or dock to undergo maintenance.

=====

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distributed without profit to those who have expressed a prior
interest in receiving the included information for research and
educational purposes.


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#7846 From: Carol Moore in DC <fightpatriarchy@...>
Date: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:52 am
Subject: US releases five Iranians held in Iraq for 30 months
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U.S. FREES FIVE IRANIANS HELD IN IRAQ
By Daniel Dombey (Washington) and Anthony Shadid (Baghdad)

Financial Times (London)
July 9, 2009 (1651 BST, updated 2340 BST [1540 PDT]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/abd654c6-6c9d-11de-a6e6-00144feabdc0.html

The U.S. on Thursday released five Iranian officials from its custody in
Iraq, as Washington moved ahead with its drive to improve relations with
the Islamic Republic even as protesters returned to the streets of Tehran.

Fresh clashes broke out when thousands of opposition supporters gathered
to protest against last month’s disputed election result.  Security forces
used tear gas to break up the rallies, which also marked the anniversary
of student protests 10 years ago.  Witnesses reported that several people
had been arrested.

It appeared to be the most significant unrest in Iran since security
forces stopped much bigger protests in the immediate aftermath of the
election amid opposition claims of fraud.

The crackdown in Iran has increased pressure on Barack Obama’s policy of
engagement with Iran, with calls on the president from Republicans to
avoid legitimizing the Iranian regime.

Just hours before the ­protests, the U.S. military handed the five
Iranians over to the Iraqi authorities.  They had been detained in Iraq
since 2007 on ­suspicion of aiding Shia insurgents.

Hoshyer Zebari, Iraq’s ­foreign minister, who met the Iranians after their
release, said he expected them to be turned over to the Iranian embassy
“after legal procedures.”

Tehran has repeatedly demanded the officials’ release, saying their
detention violated diplomatic protocols.

Although the U.S. has sometimes said that Iranian-related attacks have
since diminished, General Raymond Odierno, the commander of U.S. forces in
Iraq, told CNN last month that Iran continued to “interfere” in the
country by training insurgents and paying surrogates.

The U.S. State Department on Thursday said the decision to hand over the
five Iranians was solely because Baghdad had asked for all third-country
detainees to be put into its custody, in line with an agreement to scale
down the U.S. military’s role in Iraq.

At the Group of Eight meeting in L’Aquila, Italy, Denis ­MacDonough, a
senior adviser to Mr. Obama, denied the move was a diplomatic gesture.
But the summit highlighted the limited time the U.S. president has for
engagement in the dispute over Tehran’s nuclear ambitions.

Amid pressure from Britain and France for a tough stance, G8 leaders said
they would “take stock” in September of the success of efforts to find a
diplomatic solution.

--Additional reporting by Najmeh Bozorgmehr and Reuters in Tehran.



U.S. TURNS OVER TO IRAQ IRANIANS SUSPECTED OF AIDING INSURGENTS
By Warren P. Strobel and Mike Tharp

McClatchy Newspapers
July 9, 2009 (1655 PDT -- Jul. 10, 0425 Tehran time)

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics/AP/story/1135032.html

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. military on Thursday reluctantly turned over to
Iraq five Iranians it had accused of fomenting violence in Iraq.  The
Iraqi government promptly invited them to meet Prime Minister Nouri
al-Maliki and then released them to Iranian custody.

U.S. spokesmen in Baghdad and Washington said the United States had no
choice but to free the five men under the terms of last year's Status of
Forces Agreement, which requires the United States eventually to transfer
the more than 10,000 Iraqi and third-country detainees it now holds.

The United States claims that the five, detained in January 2007 in the
northern city of Irbil, were in the Quds Force, the covert arms of Iran's
Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, and were arming and training anti-U.S.
insurgents.  It has not provided detailed evidence to back up that charge,
asserting it would compromise secret intelligence methods, and never
pressed formal charges.

State Department spokesman Ian Kelly said the U.S. military turned over
the five Iranians after Iraq issued arrest warrants for all third-country
nationals in U.S. custody.  Those are said to number about 150, and
include Syrian, Jordanian and Libyan individuals who came to Iraq to fight
American forces.

Kelly acknowledged misgivings about the release, and its impact on U.S.
military personnel in Iraq.  "That is a big concern of ours, is the safety
of American forces.  And we ... have of course made our concerns known to
the Iraqi government," he said.

Kelly and U.S. officials said the release did not involve a quid pro quo
with Iran and was not a part of the Obama administration's attempts to
engage that country's leaders.

Rather than re-arrest the five, the Iraqi government granted them a
meeting with al-Maliki and then reportedly turned them over to Iran's
embassy in Baghdad.

The Iraqi prime minister's office referred questions to the Ministry of
Foreign Affairs, where officials couldn't be reached for comment.  Iraqi
security guards turned away a McClatchy Newspapers reporter and Iraqi
journalists at the Iranian embassy in Baghdad.

It could not be learned if the United States formally protested Iraq's
actions.

Thursday's developments were further evidence of the shifting relationship
between Iraq and the United States, which just over a week ago withdrew
its remaining combat troops from Iraqi cities. In carrying out the forces
agreement -- and in negotiating it last year -- al-Maliki has acted with
increasing assertiveness, and sometimes in ways not in line with U.S.
interests.

The release of the five Iranians also ends a 2 1/2-year saga that began
when they were seized by U.S. Special Forces in Irbil, in Iraq's Kurdish
region.

Iran said the five were diplomats and that the building where they were
detained was an Iranian consulate.  Iraq protested the detentions at the
time, telling U.S. officials the Iranians were in the country legally.  In
March 2007, in what may have been a related incident, Iran seized 15 Royal
Navy sailors it said were in Iran's territorial waters.  They were
released 12 days later.

U.S. officials said there was no documentation confirming the Irbil site
was a diplomatic facility, and said intelligence data -- including
material seized after the building was searched -- showed the five to be
members of the Quds force.

The U.S. officials, who requested anonymity to speak more frankly, made
clear they were unenthusiastic about freeing the Iranians.  One called it
"a situation where we're going to grit our teeth and do it."

(Tharp reports for the Merced (Calif.) Sun-Star.)


-

Carol Moore in DC
http://carolmoore.net/
http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/
http://youtube.com/carolmoore
http://secession.net
http://stopthewarnow.net
http://whatwouldgandhido.net
http://radicalbuttons.com

NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders,
the National Security Agency may have read this
email without judicial or legislative oversight
or warning, warrant, or notice. You have no
recourse nor protection save to secede from the union.

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