Hi again, Mark:



Saw something in the church newsletter a bit ago I thought you'd like:  "missing
her meshuga--when she tried to contain it it grabbed her by the hair."



My ideas about the double come from Ouspensky, Castaneda, and Daniel O"Keefe.  A
lot of it has to do with the imagination blowing things out of proportion.  It
probably would help your reality check to see if you can find some concrete
information about the female in question, it would help quiet down your thoughts
a bit.



I suggest you check some of the urls Jeff posted in his e-mail this morning. 
You may find some reference points there that you can identify with.


Tim




> To: kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com
> From: argento627@...
> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:27:55 +0000
> Subject: RE: [kundaliniheat] seeking help/advice re unprepared for kundalini
awakening
>
> Hi Tim
>
> Thanks for the response and advice, I am intrigued by the concept of a double
ref the girl friend, could you expand upon this because any time she creeps into
my thoughts, or sometimes to test things out I have conciously thought of her to
try and "witness" what happens, kundalini seems to move, head will go back,
often mouth yawns open, tongue either goes up to touch rof of mourh or pokes
out, often lots of pressure in/on solar plexus and I feel like I am
swiming.light headed. Her surname was King and since the evnt  keep seeing the
word everywhere like I am supersensitive to it. It is easy to become obssessive
about this as the word King features in many places in the UK for historical
reasons, but some of the events that draw my attention are really bizare, like
my eyes suddenly noticing the word where there is so mch other information they
could be taking in.
>
> Regards
>
> Mark Harris
> --- On Thu, 29/10/09, Timothy McKee <mknd17@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Timothy McKee <mknd17@...>
> Subject: RE: [kundaliniheat] seeking help/advice re unprepared for kundalini
awakening
> To: "kundalini heat" <kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thursday, 29 October, 2009, 7:30 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark:
>
> Others on this list have gone down a similiar path with frightening signposts
along the way. You may have a sense that the gods are trying to drive you crazy
and there may be some truth to that. I had a sensation of being sexually
molested by entities during my active kundalini phase. Bruce Greyson has written
about kundalini and mental illness. I think Itzhak Bentov has called kundalini a
stress release mechanism.
>
> You are no doubt encountering the double of a former girlfriend. Perhaps as
things subside a bit--as they undoubtedly will she will show up in less dramatic
ways such as in your dream life.
>
> Jeff has suggested that you engage in a rigorous and skillful contemplative
life. That is what has worked for him but I doubt it will be the answer for many
who do not have the predilection for such rigor.
>
> I personally have some health issues that would militate against rigorous
contemplation. Instead I do some prayer and journalling.
>
> I would encourage to search on the Internet for some of El Collie's writings
who was the founder of kundaliniheat. Her truths have helped many.
>
> Some say that mental illness is the path to becoming a shaman and there may be
some truth to that as well. If you heal yourself you can heal others.
>
> love and prayers,
>
> Tim
>
> > To: kundaliniheat@ yahoogroups. com
> > From: argento627@btintern et.com
> > Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:08:31 +0000
> > Subject: [kundaliniheat] seeking help/advice re unprepared for kundalini
awakening
> >
> > Hello
> >
> > Names Mark in the UK, been member of group for about a year(?) just read the
posts trying to make sense of them as well as occasionaly searching web for
other info
> >
> > Reason why? I am/was a dowser wh got into earth energies and moving stuck
energy onfrom places (whatever label or tag you wish to give these energies is
up to you) Bumpped into something that got a hold of me (apparently a big old
earth energy, been around a long time) during this episode while trying to clear
my self of it and a large number of people from different back grounds also did
their bit, I had what would appear to have been 3 kundalini or kundalini type
episodes.
> >
> > 1. LIke and explosion in the groin after severe back pain which hen felt
liek red hot liquid shooting up my spine/central core which I blocked by
choppong a hand across solar plexus and intentionally cutting my hara line (I
did not have a clue what was happenign at this time and new very little about
the energy structures of the human body and di this without thinking) This
stopped the flow at this point.
> >
> > Shortly after this (the same night) there was an episode where 2 sides of me
are now in conversation, my left side is talking to me, physically stroking my
hair and is female and is represented by a real person from a previouss
realtionship! My right side responds physically and the convesation complete
with tone of voice and images takes place inmy head.
> >
> > Freaked out by all this my wife and I leave our holiday where it occured,
and we travel home.
> >
> > The night we arive home I am lieing exhuasted on the sofa dosing when I have
a very real dream/event involving the same female from a previous realtionship
but this time it is very sexual and my head starts to rock like it is going to
fall off I feel like I am expanding to a huge size and then there is an enormous
explosion in the groin, and base of back, red hot stuff surges up my back fils
my chest then explodes either inside or just above my head with a massive burst
of of white light. I feel lke I have beedm connected to 240 volts and can only
describe it as the biggest orgasm ever mixed with absolute fear the like I have
never felt ( I have been a soldier and policeman and have been in some really
dodgy situations but have never been so scared in my life)
> >
> > The aftermath was a sensation of darkness rushing in above me.
> >
> > Since then (march 2008) I have had so many diffetent things happen and I
have tried so many different ways to understand what happened, recreate it,
ignore it (that doesnt work) try to cope with it.
> >
> > After effects: Summer 2008 another mini exlplosion contained within
pelvic/solar plexus area best described as balls of fire (intense but very
pleasurable) again connected to sexual thought when an attempt to meditate ended
up going down the road of thinking about the previous relationship
> >
> > What I call hissy fits when my face will contort almost in rage
> >
> > Really unpleasant thoughts, sometimes quite voilent
> >
> > LIke have electric shocks across the testicles and between the legs and
random occasions
> >
> > Left ear that buzzes like a generator hum really bad on run up to full moon
> >
> > smelling fear which turned out to be mucus trapped in the 4th layer of
peoples auric field ( so I am told)
> >
> > Catching glimpses of injuries or problems that people have like having brief
pictures in my head.
> >
> > Massive bloating in the solar plexus like I am going to explode, and having
an area of pain there which has been diagnosed as an hiatus hernia.
> >
> > Seeing masses of purple light when eyes are shut
> >
> > shaking, feeling amazingly hot, arms tingling like they have massive pins
and needles, erractic sleep patterns, really vivid dreams like watching movies
in HD
> >
> > body hair standing up on end, having massive static electricty,
> >
> > Feeling others peoples stuff (anger, pain, envy,) I start getting really out
of sorts and do not know why, happens in big bsy places like shopping malls and
then clams down after I go off on one or go outside.
> >
> > Feeling like I am turning into something dark, wanting to rage against life
the universe, and any great creator, wanting to destroy the light,
> >
> >
> > The list goes on and family see me as erratic, unreasonable, different, my
poor wife has taken the brunt of this especially the mood swings but is still
here 20 months on trying to understand what is happening.
> >
> > So any comments please.
> >
> > Best wishes to all
> >
> > Mark Harris
> >
> > Scotland UK
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
> >
> > Individual Contemplative and Charismatic Counseling is now available through
the GWV via phone, email and Yahoo Messenger at info@greatwesternve hicle.org
> >
> > If you value the services of the Great Western Vehicle, then please consider
supporting it with a contribution today.
> > http://www.greatwes ternvehicle. org/support. htmlYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Individual Contemplative and Charismatic Counseling is now available through
the GWV via phone, email and Yahoo Messenger at info@...
>
> If you value the services of the Great Western Vehicle, then please consider
supporting it with a contribution today.
> http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/support.htmlYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Tim, and thank-you for responding to the question.  You are correct, I
meant to address both you and glenrahmlow, please excuse my error.  Good to know
that you did engage in various spiritual practices, doing so supports my premise
that most people entering the spiritual crisis that is represented by the term
`kundalini' these days, got there through some kind of contemplative activity.

I am one who believes in cause and effect both in respect to observed phenomena
in the physical universe as well as psychic universe, because phenomena just
does not occur in a vacuum.  This means, if one finds oneself in a spiritual
crisis, then one must have gotten there through some kind of causal
relationship, and just because one does not understand the nature of why one is
in a particular psychic space does not mean that one is best served by being
heavily sedated, or should simply suppress all of the observed psychic
phenomena.

The solution I offer people is a balls-to-the-wall contemplative lifestyle as
really the only thing that will bring one out of one's misery.  I use the
Buddhist concept of the cessation of suffering, which is the formula of the 4
Noble Truths, but I interpret it radically different than most Buddhists, as I
am an ecstatic and charismatic Buddhist, which means one gets out of suffering,
nit by being stoic, but by finding the bliss underneath the charisms, by doing
so all of that psychic stuff that causes so much trouble for people in their
spiritual crisis becomes blissful, joyful and ecstatic.  Here are a few links
that some of you might appreciate:

What is jhana? Bliss, joy and ecstasy in a Buddhist context.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L385Ef-Bv_8

Kundalini, Understanding the Charismatic Experience
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/kundalini.htm

Commitment as a Refuge, Dark Night of the Soul in Buddhism (January 1, 2003)
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/commitment.htm

Understanding the Unwholesome States, The Darkness of the Dark Night
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/unwholesome.htm

Jhana and the Houses of God, Flooding the Dark Night of the Soul with Wholesome
States
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/jhana&brhamaviharas.htm

Bliss-on, Jeffrey

Hi Tim
 
Thanks for the response and advice, I am intrigued by the concept of a double
ref the girl friend, could you expand upon this because any time she creeps into
my thoughts, or sometimes to test things out I have conciously thought of her to
try and "witness" what happens, kundalini seems to move, head will go back,
often mouth yawns open, tongue either goes up to touch rof of mourh or pokes
out, often lots of pressure in/on solar plexus and I feel like I am
swiming.light headed. Her surname was King and since the evnt  keep seeing the
word everywhere like I am supersensitive to it. It is easy to become obssessive
about this as the word King features in many places in the UK for historical
reasons, but some of the events that draw my attention are really bizare, like
my eyes suddenly noticing the word where there is so mch other information they
could be taking in.
 
Regards
 
Mark Harris
--- On Thu, 29/10/09, Timothy McKee <mknd17@...> wrote:


From: Timothy McKee <mknd17@...>
Subject: RE: [kundaliniheat] seeking help/advice re unprepared for kundalini
awakening
To: "kundalini heat" <kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, 29 October, 2009, 7:30 PM


 




Mark:

Others on this list have gone down a similiar path with frightening signposts
along the way. You may have a sense that the gods are trying to drive you crazy
and there may be some truth to that. I had a sensation of being sexually
molested by entities during my active kundalini phase. Bruce Greyson has written
about kundalini and mental illness. I think Itzhak Bentov has called kundalini a
stress release mechanism.

You are no doubt encountering the double of a former girlfriend. Perhaps as
things subside a bit--as they undoubtedly will she will show up in less dramatic
ways such as in your dream life.

Jeff has suggested that you engage in a rigorous and skillful contemplative
life. That is what has worked for him but I doubt it will be the answer for many
who do not have the predilection for such rigor.

I personally have some health issues that would militate against rigorous
contemplation. Instead I do some prayer and journalling.

I would encourage to search on the Internet for some of El Collie's writings who
was the founder of kundaliniheat. Her truths have helped many.

Some say that mental illness is the path to becoming a shaman and there may be
some truth to that as well. If you heal yourself you can heal others.

love and prayers,

Tim

> To: kundaliniheat@ yahoogroups. com
> From: argento627@btintern et.com
> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:08:31 +0000
> Subject: [kundaliniheat] seeking help/advice re unprepared for kundalini
awakening
>
> Hello
>
> Names Mark in the UK, been member of group for about a year(?) just read the
posts trying to make sense of them as well as occasionaly searching web for
other info
>
> Reason why? I am/was a dowser wh got into earth energies and moving stuck
energy onfrom places (whatever label or tag you wish to give these energies is
up to you) Bumpped into something that got a hold of me (apparently a big old
earth energy, been around a long time) during this episode while trying to clear
my self of it and a large number of people from different back grounds also did
their bit, I had what would appear to have been 3 kundalini or kundalini type
episodes.
>
> 1. LIke and explosion in the groin after severe back pain which hen felt liek
red hot liquid shooting up my spine/central core which I blocked by choppong a
hand across solar plexus and intentionally cutting my hara line (I did not have
a clue what was happenign at this time and new very little about the energy
structures of the human body and di this without thinking) This stopped the flow
at this point.
>
> Shortly after this (the same night) there was an episode where 2 sides of me
are now in conversation, my left side is talking to me, physically stroking my
hair and is female and is represented by a real person from a previouss
realtionship! My right side responds physically and the convesation complete
with tone of voice and images takes place inmy head.
>
> Freaked out by all this my wife and I leave our holiday where it occured, and
we travel home.
>
> The night we arive home I am lieing exhuasted on the sofa dosing when I have a
very real dream/event involving the same female from a previous realtionship but
this time it is very sexual and my head starts to rock like it is going to fall
off I feel like I am expanding to a huge size and then there is an enormous
explosion in the groin, and base of back, red hot stuff surges up my back fils
my chest then explodes either inside or just above my head with a massive burst
of of white light. I feel lke I have beedm connected to 240 volts and can only
describe it as the biggest orgasm ever mixed with absolute fear the like I have
never felt ( I have been a soldier and policeman and have been in some really
dodgy situations but have never been so scared in my life)
>
> The aftermath was a sensation of darkness rushing in above me.
>
> Since then (march 2008) I have had so many diffetent things happen and I have
tried so many different ways to understand what happened, recreate it, ignore it
(that doesnt work) try to cope with it.
>
> After effects: Summer 2008 another mini exlplosion contained within
pelvic/solar plexus area best described as balls of fire (intense but very
pleasurable) again connected to sexual thought when an attempt to meditate ended
up going down the road of thinking about the previous relationship
>
> What I call hissy fits when my face will contort almost in rage
>
> Really unpleasant thoughts, sometimes quite voilent
>
> LIke have electric shocks across the testicles and between the legs and random
occasions
>
> Left ear that buzzes like a generator hum really bad on run up to full moon
>
> smelling fear which turned out to be mucus trapped in the 4th layer of peoples
auric field ( so I am told)
>
> Catching glimpses of injuries or problems that people have like having brief
pictures in my head.
>
> Massive bloating in the solar plexus like I am going to explode, and having an
area of pain there which has been diagnosed as an hiatus hernia.
>
> Seeing masses of purple light when eyes are shut
>
> shaking, feeling amazingly hot, arms tingling like they have massive pins and
needles, erractic sleep patterns, really vivid dreams like watching movies in HD
>
> body hair standing up on end, having massive static electricty,
>
> Feeling others peoples stuff (anger, pain, envy,) I start getting really out
of sorts and do not know why, happens in big bsy places like shopping malls and
then clams down after I go off on one or go outside.
>
> Feeling like I am turning into something dark, wanting to rage against life
the universe, and any great creator, wanting to destroy the light,
>
>
> The list goes on and family see me as erratic, unreasonable, different, my
poor wife has taken the brunt of this especially the mood swings but is still
here 20 months on trying to understand what is happening.
>
> So any comments please.
>
> Best wishes to all
>
> Mark Harris
>
> Scotland UK
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> Individual Contemplative and Charismatic Counseling is now available through
the GWV via phone, email and Yahoo Messenger at info@greatwesternve hicle.org
>
> If you value the services of the Great Western Vehicle, then please consider
supporting it with a contribution today.
> http://www.greatwes ternvehicle. org/support. htmlYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Jeff:



I think you attempted to  answer two posts at once.  The post entitled Kundalini
Problems was unsigned and from someone whose e-mail address was
glenrahmlow@...   I think you might want to refer him to some of your urls
about the dark night of the soul which is your standard one for this type of
question.



I personally have done yoga, walking, jogging, Spring Forest Qigong, prayer,
some meditation.  Nothing rigorous.



I am curious if you are still doing the archeological work.  You can send me
your post office address for donations and let me know if you want a check
written to Jeffrey Brooks or Great Western Vehicle.


Best regards



Tim




> To: kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com
> From: jhanananda@...
> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 02:39:10 +0000
> Subject: [kundaliniheat] Re: Kundalini Problems
>
> Hello Tim, I am really sorry to read about your charismatic problems, but this
forum subscribes to the solution that there is no way out of kundalini, except
through it. And, the only way through kundalini is by leading a rigorous
contemplative life. So, we do not help people "get rid of their psychic gifts.
We help them learn to use them properly.
>
> Just out of curiosity, have you ever practiced meditation, yoga, Tai Chi, or
any other religious or contemplative practice?
>
> Best regards, Jeffrey
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Individual Contemplative and Charismatic Counseling is now available through
the GWV via phone, email and Yahoo Messenger at info@...
>
> If you value the services of the Great Western Vehicle, then please consider
supporting it with a contribution today.
> http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/support.htmlYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Tim, I am really sorry to read about your charismatic problems, but this
forum subscribes to the solution that there is no way out of kundalini, except
through it.  And, the only way through kundalini is by leading a rigorous
contemplative life. So, we do not help people "get rid of their psychic gifts. 
We help them learn to use them properly.

Just out of curiosity, have you ever practiced meditation, yoga, Tai Chi, or any
other religious or contemplative practice?

Best regards, Jeffrey

Hi, I've just joined the group, and have several questions about kundalini
experiences.

I've had 3 spontaneous kundalini experiences. 2 or them were no big deal, but
the last one was very intense, and I was wondering if anyone in the group has
experienced any problems like I did.

First of all, these experiences happened because of trauma.

It felt like a psychic hole in my head. All my thoughts were leaking out all
over the place, meaning that other people could hear my thoughts word for word.
I am now very sensitive to other peoples vibes. Sometimes other people can feel
my pain, etc.

I never would have belived it myself, but when 50 other people hear everything I
was thinking about, it was kind of scary, and I felt vulnerable.

Theese days I try not to think about anything, but that is hard to do.

has anyone here become psychic due to the fact that they had an experience?

Then hundreds of revealations came to me at once, and I felt like I found God
within.

It was both amazing and frightening all at the same time.

One day I felt a ball of lightening explode in my head.

what led up to all of this was aches in my bones,etc. Bones ached, and one day
they felt like they were on fire.

how do I get rid of the psychic thing? I like my privacy, and was wondering how
to get my mind back.

It makes me feel crazy. Should I get help?

Mark:



Others on this list have gone down a similiar path with frightening signposts
along the way.  You may have a sense that the gods are trying to drive you crazy
and there may be some truth to that. I had a sensation of being sexually
molested by entities during my active kundalini phase.  Bruce Greyson has
written about kundalini and mental illness. I think Itzhak Bentov has called
kundalini a stress release mechanism.



You are no doubt encountering the double of a former girlfriend.  Perhaps as
things subside a bit--as they undoubtedly will she will show up in less dramatic
ways such as in your dream life.



Jeff has suggested that you engage in a rigorous and skillful contemplative
life. That is what has worked for him but I doubt it will be the answer for many
who do not have the predilection for such rigor.



I personally have some health issues that would militate against rigorous
contemplation.  Instead I do some prayer and journalling.



I would encourage to search on the Internet for some of El Collie's writings who
was the founder of kundaliniheat.  Her truths have helped many.



Some say that mental illness is the path to becoming a shaman and there may be
some truth to that as well.  If you heal yourself you can heal others.



love and prayers,



Tim

> To: kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com
> From: argento627@...
> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:08:31 +0000
> Subject: [kundaliniheat] seeking help/advice re unprepared for kundalini
awakening
>
> Hello
>
> Names Mark in the UK, been member of group for about a year(?) just read the
posts trying to make sense of them as well as occasionaly searching web for
other info
>
> Reason why? I am/was a dowser wh got into earth energies and moving stuck
energy onfrom places (whatever label or tag you wish to give these energies is
up to you) Bumpped into something that got a hold of me (apparently a big old
earth energy, been around a long time) during this episode while trying to clear
my self of it and a large number of people from different back grounds also did
their bit, I had what would appear to have been 3 kundalini or kundalini type
episodes.
>
> 1. LIke and explosion in the groin after severe back pain which hen felt liek
red hot liquid shooting up my spine/central core which I blocked by choppong a
hand across solar plexus and intentionally cutting my hara line (I did not have
a clue what was happenign at this time and new very little about the energy
structures of the human body and di this without thinking) This stopped the flow
at this point.
>
> Shortly after this (the same night) there was an episode where 2 sides of me
are now in conversation, my left side is talking to me, physically stroking my
hair and is female and is represented by a real person from a previouss
realtionship! My right side responds physically and the convesation complete
with tone of voice and images takes place inmy head.
>
> Freaked out by all this my wife and I leave our holiday where it occured, and
we travel home.
>
> The night we arive home I am lieing exhuasted on the sofa dosing when I have a
very real dream/event involving the same female from a previous realtionship but
this time it is very sexual and my head starts to rock like it is going to fall
off I feel like I am expanding to a huge size and then there is an enormous
explosion in the groin, and base of back, red hot stuff surges up my back fils
my chest then explodes either inside or just above my head with a massive burst
of of white light. I feel lke I have beedm connected to 240 volts and can only
describe it as the biggest orgasm ever mixed with absolute fear the like I have
never felt ( I have been a soldier and policeman and have been in some really
dodgy situations but have never been so scared in my life)
>
> The aftermath was a sensation of darkness rushing in above me.
>
> Since then (march 2008) I have had so many diffetent things happen and I have
tried so many different ways to understand what happened, recreate it, ignore it
(that doesnt work) try to cope with it.
>
> After effects: Summer 2008 another mini exlplosion contained within
pelvic/solar plexus area best described as balls of fire (intense but very
pleasurable) again connected to sexual thought when an attempt to meditate ended
up going down the road of thinking about the previous relationship
>
> What I call hissy fits when my face will contort almost in rage
>
> Really unpleasant thoughts, sometimes quite voilent
>
> LIke have electric shocks across the testicles and between the legs and random
occasions
>
> Left ear that buzzes like a generator hum really bad on run up to full moon
>
> smelling fear which turned out to be mucus trapped in the 4th layer of peoples
auric field ( so I am told)
>
> Catching glimpses of injuries or problems that people have like having brief
pictures in my head.
>
> Massive bloating in the solar plexus like I am going to explode, and having an
area of pain there which has been diagnosed as an hiatus hernia.
>
> Seeing masses of purple light when eyes are shut
>
> shaking, feeling amazingly hot, arms tingling like they have massive pins and
needles, erractic sleep patterns, really vivid dreams like watching movies in HD
>
> body hair standing up on end, having massive static electricty,
>
> Feeling others peoples stuff (anger, pain, envy,) I start getting really out
of sorts and do not know why, happens in big bsy places like shopping malls and
then clams down after I go off on one or go outside.
>
> Feeling like I am turning into something dark, wanting to rage against life
the universe, and any great creator, wanting to destroy the light,
>
>
> The list goes on and family see me as erratic, unreasonable, different, my
poor wife has taken the brunt of this especially the mood swings but is still
here 20 months on trying to understand what is happening.
>
> So any comments please.
>
> Best wishes to all
>
> Mark Harris
>
> Scotland UK
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Individual Contemplative and Charismatic Counseling is now available through
the GWV via phone, email and Yahoo Messenger at info@...
>
> If you value the services of the Great Western Vehicle, then please consider
supporting it with a contribution today.
> http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/support.htmlYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Tim, Mark and others, yes, Tim, most people do not associate kundalini
with enlightenment, except if one does a literature search on the subject, one
will find the term `kundalini' was always associated with enlightenment, until
Gopi Krishna arrived on the scene and wrote his book of nonsense and confused a
lot of people.

There are now a number of names in the literature for psychotic episodes that
are associated with various spiritual activities.  Some of those names are:
qi-gong psychotic episode, or kundalini psychosis, or meditation induced
psychosis.  It suggests that poorly guided spiritual activities might just lead
to psychosis, which is what is being incorrectly called `kundalini' these days.

The problem with kundalini groups and spiritual groups is they do not understand
the connection between spiritual activity and charismatic phenomena. People in
this "New Age" go about taking yoga classes and practicing meditation, and
engaging in various ritual activity, but they are generally lead by amateurs who
cannot help these people as charisms begin to arise.

The reason why this forum is so quiet is because I have come to radically
different conclusions regarding kundalini and how to negotiate it than most
other leaders of kundalini forums.  This difference tends to confuse some people
who think mainstream ideas surrounding kundalini are correct.

My conclusions, Mark, are the only way to properly negotiate the kundalini
awakening is to lead a rigorous and skillful contemplative life that is informed
by kundalini and other charismatic phenomena.  Some of you may find reading the
following articles of interest:

Kundalini, Understanding the Charismatic Experience
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/kundalini.htm

A Practice Regimen (Magga) That Can Lead To Enlightenment (Phala) In This Very
Lifetime
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/practiceregimen.htm

Best regards, Jeffrey

Hello

Names Mark in the UK, been member of group for about a year(?) just read the
posts trying to make sense of them as well as occasionaly searching web for
other info

Reason why? I am/was a dowser wh got into earth energies and moving stuck energy
onfrom places (whatever label or tag you wish to give these energies is up to
you) Bumpped into something that got a hold of me (apparently a big old earth
energy, been around a long time) during this episode while trying to clear my
self of it and a large number of people from different back grounds also did
their bit, I had what would appear to have been 3 kundalini or kundalini type
episodes.

1. LIke and explosion in the groin after severe back pain which hen felt liek
red hot liquid shooting up my spine/central core which I blocked by choppong a
hand across solar plexus and intentionally cutting my hara line (I did not have
a clue what was happenign at this time and new very little about the energy
structures of the human body and di this without thinking) This stopped the flow
at this point.

Shortly after this (the same night) there was an episode where 2 sides of me are
now in conversation, my left side is talking to me, physically stroking my hair
and is female and is represented by a real person from a previouss realtionship!
My right side responds physically and the convesation complete with tone of
voice and images takes place inmy head.

Freaked out by all this my wife and I leave our holiday where it occured, and we
travel home.

The night we arive home I am lieing exhuasted on the sofa dosing when I have a
very real dream/event involving the same female from a previous realtionship but
this time it is very sexual and my head starts to rock like it is going to fall
off I feel like I am expanding to a huge size and then there is an enormous
explosion in the groin, and base of back, red hot stuff surges up my back fils
my chest then explodes either inside or just above my head with a massive burst
of of white light. I feel lke I have beedm connected to 240 volts and can only
describe it as the biggest orgasm ever mixed with absolute fear the like I have
never felt ( I have been a soldier and policeman and have been in some really
dodgy situations but have never been so scared in my life)

The aftermath was a sensation of darkness rushing in above me.

Since then (march 2008) I have had so many diffetent things happen and I have
tried so many different ways to understand what happened, recreate it, ignore it
(that doesnt work) try to cope with it.

After effects: Summer 2008 another mini exlplosion contained within pelvic/solar
plexus area best described as balls of fire (intense but very pleasurable) again
connected to sexual thought when an attempt to meditate ended up going down the
road of thinking about the previous relationship

What I call hissy fits when my face will contort almost in rage

Really unpleasant thoughts, sometimes quite voilent

LIke have electric shocks across the testicles and between the legs and random
occasions

Left ear that buzzes like a generator hum really bad on run up to full moon

smelling fear which turned out to be mucus trapped in the 4th layer of peoples
auric field ( so I am told)

Catching glimpses of injuries or problems that people have like having brief
pictures in my head.

Massive bloating in the solar plexus like I am going to explode, and having an
area of pain there which has been diagnosed as an hiatus hernia.

Seeing masses of purple light when eyes are shut

shaking, feeling amazingly hot, arms tingling like they have massive pins and
needles, erractic sleep patterns, really vivid dreams like watching movies in HD

body hair standing up on end, having massive static electricty,

Feeling others peoples stuff (anger, pain, envy,) I start getting really out of
sorts and do not know why, happens in big bsy places like shopping malls and
then clams down after I go off on one or go outside.

Feeling like I am turning into something dark, wanting to rage against life the
universe, and any great creator, wanting to destroy the light,


The list goes on and family see me as erratic, unreasonable, different, my poor
wife has taken the brunt of this especially the mood swings but is still here 20
months on trying to understand what is happening.

So any comments please.

Best wishes to all

Mark Harris

Scotland UK

I do not personally associate kundalini with enlightenment, but I will have to
admit that the wikipedia entry for kundalini syndrome does contain the phrase
"awakening of inner knowledge."  As some of you know who have been on this list
for awhile kundalini is becoming somewhat  of a catch all phrase.  Apparently
the DSM now contains something like qi-gong psychotic episode.



I recently wrote on another listserv that as far as psychiatry goes I am a
scientologist.  I take the meds but I don't believe in them.



Anyone else want to comment on the link between kundalini and enlightenment? 
This listserv could use a little activity.



Tim

> To: kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com
> From: jhanananda@...
> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:50:15 +0000
> Subject: [kundaliniheat] Re: Much Love to All
>
> Goodbye Anna, and thanks for being a part of Kundalini Heat. However, I do not
think I could agree that we are all enlightened, but I would agree that we all
have the potential to become enlightened, but that depends upon how one
interprets the idea of enlightenment.
>
> Some people think enlightenment is just a belief in some simple principle,
like "Jesus died for our sins," or "we are all enlightened." The problem is,
when we investigate Christian doctrine we find that it was heavily engineered by
its priesthood to remove the original doctrine of Jesus and present a simplified
belief system that would appeal to the masses. So, Christianity, as we know it
today, is founded upon a corrupted doctrine. It turns out the Gospel of John is
a lie. It was constructed to patch the gaping holes left in Christian doctrine
by the burning of the gospels of Thomas, Philip, Magdalene and Judas.
>
> If we examine the doctrine of Pure Land Buddhism, we find its doctrine was
corrupted by it priesthood as well. In fact all of the religions of man are
based upon doctrines that were corrupted by its priesthood. We have to get that
the progenitors of all of the religions were contemplatives, who became mystics
through leading a contemplative life. This means the "righteous living" of the
progenitors of all of the religions, was leading a rigorous contemplative life.
No mainstream religion ever understood this.
>
> And, it is the rising of the kundalini that makes one a mystic. However, one
must learn to negotiate the spiritual awakening that is represented by the
rising of the kundalini. And, it is in negotiate the spiritual awakening that
makes us enlightened.
>
> May you be enlightened in this very lifetime,
>
> Jeffrey
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Individual Contemplative and Charismatic Counseling is now available through
the GWV via phone, email and Yahoo Messenger at info@...
>
> If you value the services of the Great Western Vehicle, then please consider
supporting it with a contribution today.
> http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/support.htmlYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Goodbye Anna, and thanks for being a part of Kundalini Heat.  However, I do not
think I could agree that we are all enlightened, but I would agree that we all
have the potential to become enlightened, but that depends upon how one
interprets the idea of enlightenment.

Some people think enlightenment is just a belief in some simple principle, like
"Jesus died for our sins," or "we are all enlightened." The problem is, when we
investigate Christian doctrine we find that it was heavily engineered by its
priesthood to remove the original doctrine of Jesus and present a simplified
belief system that would appeal to the masses.  So, Christianity, as we know it
today, is founded upon a corrupted doctrine. It turns out the Gospel of John is
a lie.  It was constructed to patch the gaping holes left in Christian doctrine
by the burning of the gospels of Thomas, Philip, Magdalene and Judas.

If we examine the doctrine of Pure Land Buddhism, we find its doctrine was
corrupted by it priesthood as well. In fact all of the religions of man are
based upon doctrines that were corrupted by its priesthood. We have to get that
the progenitors of all of the religions were contemplatives, who became mystics
through leading a contemplative life. This means the "righteous living" of the
progenitors of all of the religions, was leading a rigorous contemplative life. 
No mainstream religion ever understood this.

And, it is the rising of the kundalini that makes one a mystic.  However, one
must learn to negotiate the spiritual awakening that is represented by the
rising of the kundalini.  And, it is in negotiate the spiritual awakening that
makes us enlightened.

May you be enlightened in this very lifetime,

Jeffrey

Goodbye and thank you.

May we all realize we are enlightened and so live our lives in the light of
awareness which is love.

~Anna

1) Please avoid violent communication

2) Please no flame wars or personal attacks on other members

3) Please no SPAM, or promotion of traditions or teachers who are not directly
involved in the teaching of meditative absorption (jhana,samadhi).

4) When replying, please edit out the irrelevant portion of the previous post.

5) Please keep your message on topic with the mission statement of the
listserve.

6) Please do not attach files to your posts.

7) All messages should be composed by you, or if you are going to quote someone,
then please give us the sources or URL, and do make sure your quote is on-topic.

8) Attacking the listserve¹s mission statement and its owner and/or moderators
is not acceptable.

9) Power struggles with the group owner or moderators will result in immediate
moderation.

10) Repeated posts that are off-topic and beyond the scope of this list's
practice and attainment (magga and phala) orientation will result in moderation.

11) Continued reference to, and discussion of, teachers and
traditions that are not engaged in a practice and attainment (magga and phala)
orientation, or fall below acceptable ethical standards, will also result in
moderation.

12) Those found in violation of the above rules will be moderated.

13) Those who consistently violate the simple rules for conduct on this
listserve will result in banning.

14) New members will automatically be moderated until such time as they are
removed from moderations.

Jeff Brooks has maintained a daily meditation practice for 34 years, has
completed 2 three-year retreats, and attended well over 50 meditation retreats. 
Through his rigorous meditation practice he has cultivated the 9 stages of
meditative absorption (samadhi) and the other fruit (phala) that the Buddha &
Patanjali described, such as meditative absorption (jhana, samadhi), insight
(vipassana), out-of-body travel (Manomaya), etc. so he speaks from personal
experience with the phenomena of meditative absorption.

If you are experiencing the phenomena of meditative absorption you may want to
discuss it with someone with decades of direct experience with this phenomena,
such as Mr. Brooks.  So schedule an Individual Contemplative and Charismatic
Counseling session simply email <info@...>

If you value the services of the Great Western Vehicle, then please consider
supporting it with a contribution today.
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/support.html

Love and blessings, Jhananda

Hi Lona,
Thanks for your reply.
I took your advice.  I was unaware I could do that.  So thanks.
Best Wishes
Vincent 

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Vincent,

I totally agree with you.  As a group owner, I know that archives can be public,
or be only readable by group members, or totally private, only to the group
owner.  I also know that you, as a member, can go in and delete your own posts.
I'm going to be careful what I share here as well, knowing how personal threads
can get, and don't want to share it with the world.
Here is the link to access our postings.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kundaliniheat/messages
I think I'll be doing that as well.

Lona

   I found this extremely disconcerting, as I felt this group was accessed by
members only, and in my case what I articulated initially was very personal to
me.  What I shared on the group would be something I would tell very few people.
Now anyone who knows my email address can read the most inimate and personal
stuff of my life.
I find it very difficult to comprehend how this can happen.
Best Wishes
Vincent



------------------------------------

Individual Contemplative and Charismatic Counseling is now available through the
GWV via phone, email and Yahoo Messenger at info@...

If you value the services of the Great Western Vehicle, then please consider
supporting it with a contribution today.
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/support.htmlYahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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06:48:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

1) Please avoid violent communication

2) Please no flame wars or personal attacks on other members

3) Please no SPAM, or promotion of traditions or teachers who are not directly
involved in the teaching of meditative absorption (jhana,samadhi).

4) When replying, please edit out the irrelevant portion of the previous post.

5) Please keep your message on topic with the mission statement of the
listserve.

6) Please do not attach files to your posts.

7) All messages should be composed by you, or if you are going to quote someone,
then please give us the sources or URL, and do make sure your quote is on-topic.

8) Attacking the listserve¹s mission statement and its owner and/or moderators
is not acceptable.

9) Power struggles with the group owner or moderators will result in immediate
moderation.

10) Repeated posts that are off-topic and beyond the scope of this list's
practice and attainment (magga and phala) orientation will result in moderation.

11) Continued reference to, and discussion of, teachers and
traditions that are not engaged in a practice and attainment (magga and phala)
orientation, or fall below acceptable ethical standards, will also result in
moderation.

12) Those found in violation of the above rules will be moderated.

13) Those who consistently violate the simple rules for conduct on this
listserve will result in banning.

14) New members will automatically be moderated until such time as they are
removed from moderations.

Jeff Brooks has maintained a daily meditation practice for 34 years, has
completed 2 three-year retreats, and attended well over 50 meditation retreats. 
Through his rigorous meditation practice he has cultivated the 9 stages of
meditative absorption (samadhi) and the other fruit (phala) that the Buddha &
Patanjali described, such as meditative absorption (jhana, samadhi), insight
(vipassana), out-of-body travel (Manomaya), etc. so he speaks from personal
experience with the phenomena of meditative absorption.

If you are experiencing the phenomena of meditative absorption you may want to
discuss it with someone with decades of direct experience with this phenomena,
such as Mr. Brooks.  So schedule an Individual Contemplative and Charismatic
Counseling session simply email <info@...>

If you value the services of the Great Western Vehicle, then please consider
supporting it with a contribution today.
http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/support.html

Love and blessings, Jhananda

Hi I have had the kundalini for the past 10 years and I also speak in tongues. I
speak aramaic. Speaking in tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit, so nothing to
be afraid of. Kundalini is known to have similar spiritual experiences similar
to the gifts of the Holy Spirit as in prophecy, tongues,healing etc.

Now just to enter a deeper satori and I'd be happy!

--- On Thu, 8/27/09, Marsha Sands <sands@...> wrote:

From: Marsha Sands <sands@...>
Subject: RE: [kundaliniheat] Speaking in tongues
To: kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com
Received: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 8:59 AM






 





                   To share my one experience of speaking in tongues:



It happened at a monthly meeting in which our group practiced ‘toning (just

making sounds, basically).’



‘Energy’ gathered in my mouth and filled it to overflowing.  All at once

some ‘words’ started coming out in a continuous flow – I did not know the

language, but felt in the strange words, a sense of organization that might

not have occurred with a ‘word salad.’



I felt intense ecstasy, as this continued, and a warm flow of intense love

throughout my body.  Crown was open and there was a connection formed from

the roof (which opened)of my mouth to the crown



I realized that, whatever the words were, they were words of praise and

adulation, moving out my mouth.  My body shook.  No headaches.  Eye

movement.?  My eyes were closed.



I let it go until it stopped –about 20 – 25 minutes – all the while

wondering what was going on.



It was not until later that I labeled it ‘speaking in tongues.’



It never happened again.



Symbology?  Meaning? I am Pooh Bear – I don’t know, but I can only describe

the above.



Marsha



From: kundaliniheat@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:kundaliniheat@ yahoogroups. com]

On Behalf Of Timothy McKee

Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:13 PM

To: kundalini heat

Subject: RE: [kundaliniheat] Speaking in tongues



I had some familiarity concerning speaking in tongues in the 1970s. While

considered the infilling of the Holy Spirt, some consider it just an

ecstatic experience colored by auto-suggestion.



I once read a pamphlet entitled WHY I CHOSE NOT TO BE A CHARISMATIC. The

author was renouncing his experiences in the Assembly of God and embracing

the fundamental Baptist faith which teaches primarily that the Pentecost

experience was a one time event with comprehensible language the prime

characteristic.



You might remember a story called SINGING TO DEER in which a woman

captivates deer with her singing only to have the spell broken when she

resorts to talk language.



I am not too sure to what extent you could find parallels between speaking

in tongues and kundalini experiences. There seems to be a million and one

descriptions and definitions of kundalini and there are groups catering to

former Pentecostals.



Sorry if this isn't much help.



Tim



> To: kundaliniheat@ yahoogroups. com <mailto:kundalinihe at%40yahoogroups .com>



> From: elianitadelsol@ yahoo.es <mailto:elianitadel sol%40yahoo. es>

> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:23:21 +0000

> Subject: [kundaliniheat] Speaking in tongues

>

> Hi there, I hardly find references to this, details... in Kundalini´s

path.

>

> What is really happening when a person begin to speak in tongues?

>

> Is there a symbolic meaning?

>

> What is the sense in that?

>

> And headaches? and eyes movements while doing that, and a crown chakra

sensation of opening?

>

> Plenty of questions :-)

>

> Blessings,

>

> Eliana del Sol

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------ --------- --------- ------

>

> Individual Contemplative and Charismatic Counseling is now available

through the GWV via phone, email and Yahoo Messenger at

info@greatwesternve hicle.org <mailto:info% 40greatwesternve hicle.org>

>

> If you value the services of the Great Western Vehicle, then please

consider supporting it with a contribution today.

> http://www.greatwes ternvehicle. org/support. htmlYahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





























       __________________________________________________________________
Make your browsing faster, safer, and easier with the new Internet Explorer® 8.
Optimized for Yahoo! Get it Now for Free! at
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To share my one experience of speaking in tongues:



It happened at a monthly meeting in which our group practiced ‘toning (just
making sounds, basically).’



‘Energy’ gathered in my mouth and filled it to overflowing.  All at once
some ‘words’ started coming out in a continuous flow – I did not know the
language, but felt in the strange words, a sense of organization that might
not have occurred with a ‘word salad.’



I felt intense ecstasy, as this continued, and a warm flow of intense love
throughout my body.  Crown was open and there was a connection formed from
the roof (which opened)of my mouth to the crown



I realized that, whatever the words were, they were words of praise and
adulation, moving out my mouth.  My body shook.  No headaches.  Eye
movement.?  My eyes were closed.



I let it go until it stopped –about 20 – 25 minutes – all the while
wondering what was going on.



It was not until later that I labeled it ‘speaking in tongues.’



It never happened again.



Symbology?  Meaning? I am Pooh Bear – I don’t know, but I can only describe
the above.



Marsha



From: kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com [mailto:kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Timothy McKee
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:13 PM
To: kundalini heat
Subject: RE: [kundaliniheat] Speaking in tongues






I had some familiarity concerning speaking in tongues in the 1970s. While
considered the infilling of the Holy Spirt, some consider it just an
ecstatic experience colored by auto-suggestion.

I once read a pamphlet entitled WHY I CHOSE NOT TO BE A CHARISMATIC. The
author was renouncing his experiences in the Assembly of God and embracing
the fundamental Baptist faith which teaches primarily that the Pentecost
experience was a one time event with comprehensible language the prime
characteristic.

You might remember a story called SINGING TO DEER in which a woman
captivates deer with her singing only to have the spell broken when she
resorts to talk language.

I am not too sure to what extent you could find parallels between speaking
in tongues and kundalini experiences. There seems to be a million and one
descriptions and definitions of kundalini and there are groups catering to
former Pentecostals.

Sorry if this isn't much help.

Tim

> To: kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com <mailto:kundaliniheat%40yahoogroups.com>

> From: elianitadelsol@... <mailto:elianitadelsol%40yahoo.es>
> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:23:21 +0000
> Subject: [kundaliniheat] Speaking in tongues
>
> Hi there, I hardly find references to this, details... in Kundalini´s
path.
>
> What is really happening when a person begin to speak in tongues?
>
> Is there a symbolic meaning?
>
> What is the sense in that?
>
> And headaches? and eyes movements while doing that, and a crown chakra
sensation of opening?
>
> Plenty of questions :-)
>
> Blessings,
>
> Eliana del Sol
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Individual Contemplative and Charismatic Counseling is now available
through the GWV via phone, email and Yahoo Messenger at
info@... <mailto:info%40greatwesternvehicle.org>
>
> If you value the services of the Great Western Vehicle, then please
consider supporting it with a contribution today.
> http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/support.htmlYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I had some familiarity concerning speaking in tongues in the 1970s.  While
considered the infilling of the Holy Spirt, some consider it just an ecstatic
experience colored by auto-suggestion.



I once read a pamphlet entitled WHY I CHOSE NOT TO BE A CHARISMATIC.  The author
was renouncing his experiences in the Assembly of God and embracing the
fundamental Baptist faith which teaches primarily that the Pentecost experience
was a one time event with comprehensible language the prime characteristic.



You might remember a story called SINGING TO DEER in which a woman captivates
deer with her singing only to have the spell broken when she resorts to talk
language.



I am not too sure to what extent you could find parallels between speaking in
tongues and kundalini experiences. There seems to be a million and one
descriptions and definitions of kundalini and there are groups catering to
former Pentecostals.



Sorry if this isn't much help.



Tim

> To: kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com
> From: elianitadelsol@...
> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 06:23:21 +0000
> Subject: [kundaliniheat] Speaking in tongues
>
> Hi there, I hardly find references to this, details... in Kundalini´s path.
>
> What is really happening when a person begin to speak in tongues?
>
> Is there a symbolic meaning?
>
> What is the sense in that?
>
> And headaches? and eyes movements while doing that, and a crown chakra
sensation of opening?
>
> Plenty of questions :-)
>
> Blessings,
>
> Eliana del Sol
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Individual Contemplative and Charismatic Counseling is now available through
the GWV via phone, email and Yahoo Messenger at info@...
>
> If you value the services of the Great Western Vehicle, then please consider
supporting it with a contribution today.
> http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/support.htmlYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Shuaib,
                     my suggestion is that you allow kundalini to manifest in
her own good time.
 
I tried to accelerate the process in 1995 and spent 5.5 months in psychiatric
wards for my troubles, I did learn patience there however, so maybe it was where
I was meant to be?
 
Whatever approach you take, may it bring light and love - Derek

--- On Tue, 11/8/09, shoaibdotcom <shoaibdotcom@...> wrote:


From: shoaibdotcom <shoaibdotcom@...>
Subject: [kundaliniheat] Anyone Offering ShaktiPat?
To: kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, 11 August, 2009, 8:35 PM


 



Hi,

Any Master offering Shaktipat here for Kundalini Awakening? If yes then plz do
tell me.

Regards and Salam!

Shuaib



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rose:  The greatest awakenings are when we fall to our knees (if not our
faces) and go, "Oh my God, that would be me! It's not "them",it's "me"!
God help me."

Kristi:  This pretty much draws the picture of where I am at.

Rose: This process develops deep compassion for ourselves and others.

Kristi:  Yes.

Rose:  This is how, as Paul says, everything works for our benefit for
those who are in Christ.

Kristi:  Interesting you would share this, and that I would then meet
with my analyst, later on Saturday, to have her read to me (through my
tears, streaming) some of Jung's thoughts/words on the incalculable
paradoxes of love, from his "Memories, Dreams and Reflections" (in his
section of "Late Thoughts") - whose range of activity extends from the
endless spaces of the heavens to the dark abyss of hell.  He also speaks
of Paul.  She then read 1 Corinthians 13:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20corinthians%2013&version\
=45
<http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20corinthians%2013&versio\
n=45>

I can't but continue.

Thanks, Rose.

Kristi


--- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, "rosebergen" <rosestjohn@...>
wrote:
>
> Kristi,
>
> Again your honest response prompts me to respond. You said, "am
currently doing a lot of shoveling of shit (falling in the mud?), as it
is sometimes called... continue to have a lot of levels and layers of my
shadow/psyche being shown me." But you also said,"I've spent the days
living in bliss, feeling unaffected by any of my past." That IS the
process. The more intense the light, the deeper the shadow.
>
> The light intensifies the shadow, makes it more apparent and defined
to us so we can clearly see it. And we can finally (thank God) stop
denying, repressing, blaming, or playing the victim. The greatest
awakenings are when we fall to our knees (if not our faces) and go, "Oh
my God, that would be me! It's not "them", it's "me"! God help me." This
is a great blessing because then we can begin to take responsibility for
who and what we are without blaming, playing the victim, saying it would
be "them" and not "me", repressing, denying, blaming, etc....
>
> This is the gift of taking off our blinders and bravely standing naked
before God and ourselves, exposing the stunning beauty (that we are) as
well as the vile beast (also within). And beginning to take
responsibility for the whole of who and what we are. The process of
becoming truly visible to ourselves with the recognition that we are
always fully visible to God and beginning to live in the presence of God
who sees us as we are acquiring the bravery to see ourselves. Then the
process begins of being truly honest and assimilating our wholeness,
which is profoundly and deeply healing. This process develops deep
compassion for ourselves and others.
>
> This is how we turn our "curses" into "blessings." This is how, as
Paul says, everything works for our benefit for those who are in Christ.
This is the process of transformation, which you are in process of
honestly and sincerely undertaking. Continue.
>
> Best, Rose
>
>
>
> --- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, "krisskns" krisskns@ wrote:
> >
> > Hi Rose,
> >
> > Again, your words are helpful. I am sometimes much better able to do
as you say, "witness."
> > Other times, not so well at all. And I do see how an attempt to
ignore is a form of control, as well as the assigning of significance to
events and experiences...applying value or meaning to things that causes
us to want to "hold on" to them as "important"...to include ideas of
spirituality, being or becoming more "spiritual"...or, as you alluded
to, valuations (judgments) about doing things/walking the path, the
"right way." I understand it is all a movement of mind, and I do often
toss and turn with it all.
> >
> > When my awakening came several years ago, spontaneously and very
powerfully, I was, in many ways, quite a dysfunctional person. The
awakening of the energy was not something I "consciously" sought out. At
the time, it was something that "just came." With today's hindsight, I
see that I had the propensity for charismatic/ecstatic experiences since
a child...and that it was perhaps only a matter of time until it would
come with the force that it did. Having had no understanding of the
process, I became a wreck, as my unconscious began rapidly unloading.
Most of this being the result of extraordinarily abusive childhood
conditions.
> >
> > I sought help and understanding in many ways, and have learned from
them all, but long story short, I today follow a Jungian path ... and am
currently doing a lot of shoveling of shit (falling in the mud?), as it
is sometimes called... continue to have a lot of levels and layers of my
shadow/psyche being shown me.
> >
> > I've spent the days living in bliss, feeling unaffected by any of my
past. But I believe that to be truly free, we have to experience an
undoing of everything, and that this requires a complete "going through"
of all the factors and influences that comprised who and what we
believe-d ourselves to be.
> >
> > Yet, I admit, I can get to feeling "I" am the one doing the undoing
in my process. I also think a part of me has a penchant for drama and
story...no, I know this is so, for I love to study myth and see the
effects "story" has in our lives. I like to study and spin things from
all angles, seeing so many possibilities, seeing things from so many
points of view. While I feel all of this is beneficial, for my path, I
also know that I do get overly identified with it/my role in it, with
the me who thinks she is the one "doing," and lose sight of the one that
knows how to just "be" in it all.
> >
> > I've been off my horse quite a bit lately, as I am currently
experiencing much emotional vicissitudes. And truly seeing how much I
fail in my efforts...
> >
> > Thanks again,
> > Kristi
> >
> > --- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, "rosebergen" <rosestjohn@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Kristi,
> > >
> > > Kind of you to respond. And your honest sincerity prompted me to
post again. The key word is observe, i.e. witness. To be the witness is
to observe what you are experiencing without attaching to it; without
judgment; without a desire to control it (trying to ignore it is a form
of control). Of course, none of this is rigid. And we are human down
here. So we can observe our desire to judge the experience or attach
significance to it and by that observation discover more about how we
operate and allow it expand who we know ourselves to be.
> > >
> > > Observation allows us to become aware of the connections and
responses within--emotional, rational, physiological, etc--even to be
aware of the attractions or aversions that the experience draws out of
us, while continually and with purpose returning to the witness center.
We can get knocked off our "seat" by an experience. (And, by the by,
don't take "seat" literally because this becomes our moment by moment
practice.) But the point is not that we get knocked off, the point is
that we continually return to our "seat." (The horse can buck us off,
but that is not the issue, the issue is that we get up, brush ourselves
off and get back on the horse.)
> > >
> > > The point is to awaken in it. To expand who we know ourselves to
be through it. We are awakening in it. We awaken to the totality of the
experience and who we are in it, layer upon layer....and then we offer
it. Offer. Offer. Offer. And all the while we are learning to ride
"bucking bronco" until there is finally no separation between the bronco
and us. We ride as one. Of course, we can parse this--we learn to ride
one bronco and then we learn to ride another. So, it is continual
process. Continual unfolding. Continual expansion of who and what we
know ourselves to be.
> > >
> > > And we have the freedom to fall in it. Vulnerability and honesty
are huge factors in strength.Imposing impossible standards on ourselves
when we cannot do it is like following a useless script. If we get
derailed in the midst of it, know that we can be tested and fail. And
still succeed. Sages are sages because they have failed more than the
rest of us and have continued. Failure is part of success. As a matter
of fact, failure may be the only true path to success. (Oh, and did I
mention, it's how we learn compassion.)
> > >
> > > So we have great freedom and grace to answer our call. Our only
real commitment to it is that we continue. (As my teacher used to say,
falling in the mud is not a problem. Staying there is.) Our commitment,
which is an act of love, is what allows us to continue, no matter. Thus,
love is the guiding force. (And ultimately, there is nowhere that love
is not.)
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Rose
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, "krisskns" <krisskns@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Rose,
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for this reminder...offer, release, let go...to not
attach significance to experiences.
> > > >
> > > > While the smell of death has not remained, other scents still
come and go. I can't say that I am attaching or trying to hold onto
them, they just are, appear, both in my meditations and through my days.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, while I was in the presence of those dying, those moments
of smelling death did seem to also speak to my own process, for on the
dates that I was smelling death, I was also feeling/experiencing the
energy of the goddess running through me so intensely as to be all
consuming. And try as I might to ignore/never mind "that" scent, it even
followed me in my home for a few days. The timing of the event was
consistent with contemplations on Kali.
> > > >
> > > > Kristi
> > > >
> > > > --- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, "rosebergen" <rosestjohn@>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Kristi,
> > > > >
> > > > > As I am sure you know, many saints have had experiences with
scents, both in their meditation / prayer time, as well as during their
active daily life. The scent of roses being an extremely common one.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have also known others who smelled the smell of death. On
occasion, it was connected to someone who had literally died, but the
person either had no connection to the person who had died, or if a
connection was there, had no way of rationally knowing the person had
died. They were simply sniffing out something that had happened in the
energy field (both physical and ethereal) around them.
> > > > >
> > > > > But I think you are right, smell is connected to the essential
duality of death / rebirth; decay/resurrection--and may signify and
indicate our internal process.
> > > > >
> > > > > Still, best to observe and release. We don't have to define or
attach significance to every experience. That process can actually slow
us down and distract us.
> > > > >
> > > > > St. John of the Cross gives good advice when he counsels pay
no attention. If it was significant the experience will be stamped in
you and impact you without your having to "do" anything. If the
experience was not significant, it will not stick to you unless you
attach yourself to it. If you attach, you are in process of binding
yourself instead of freeing yourself. And the process, of course, is
freedom, liberation from that to which we are bound. (And the truth is
that we do most of binding ourselves.)
> > > > >
> > > > > The point is, we don't do the work; it is done in us and we
observe with awe the work being done in us. Then, offer. Always offer,
offer, offer--the more we offer, release, let go, the more space we have
to receive. The more you attach, the less space.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, I like the wisdom of St. John who reminds us that what
has been deposited into us through our Lord, or however you want to
phrase it, cannot be taken from us. And if we offer it; it can only
expand us, as well as others. Offering not only serves others, but it
serves ourselves. Another version of it is in very act of giving that we
receive; the very act of forgiving that we are forgiven; etc.....
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > > Rose
> > >
> >
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kristi,

Again your honest response prompts me to respond. You said, "am currently doing
a lot of shoveling of shit (falling in the mud?), as it is sometimes called...
continue to have a lot of levels and layers of my shadow/psyche being shown me."
But you also said,"I've spent the days living in bliss, feeling unaffected by
any of my past." That IS the process. The more intense the light, the deeper the
shadow.

The light intensifies the shadow, makes it more apparent and  defined to us so
we can clearly see it. And we can finally (thank God) stop denying, repressing,
blaming, or playing the victim. The greatest awakenings are when we fall to our
knees (if not our faces) and go, "Oh my God, that would be me! It's not "them",
it's "me"! God help me." This is a great blessing because then we can begin to
take responsibility for who and what we are without blaming, playing the victim,
saying it would be "them" and not "me", repressing, denying, blaming, etc....

This is the gift of taking off our blinders and bravely standing naked before
God and ourselves, exposing the stunning beauty (that we are) as well as the
vile beast (also within). And beginning to take responsibility for the whole of
who and what we are.  The process of becoming truly visible to ourselves with
the recognition that we are always fully visible to God and beginning to live in
the presence of God who sees us as we are acquiring the bravery to see
ourselves.   Then the process begins of being truly honest and assimilating our
wholeness, which is profoundly and deeply healing. This process develops deep
compassion for ourselves and others.

This is how we turn our "curses" into "blessings." This is how, as Paul says,
everything works for our benefit for those who are in Christ. This is the
process of transformation, which you are in process of honestly and sincerely
undertaking. Continue.

Best, Rose



--- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, "krisskns" <krisskns@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Rose,
>
> Again, your words are helpful.  I am sometimes much better able to do as you
say, "witness."
> Other times, not so well at all.  And I do see how an attempt to ignore is a
form of control, as well as the assigning of significance to events and
experiences...applying value or meaning to things that causes us to want to
"hold on" to them as "important"...to include ideas of spirituality, being or
becoming more "spiritual"...or, as you alluded to, valuations (judgments) about
doing things/walking the path, the "right way."    I understand it is all a
movement of mind, and I do often toss and turn with it all.
>
> When my awakening came several years ago, spontaneously and very powerfully, I
was, in many ways, quite a dysfunctional person.  The awakening of the energy
was not something I "consciously" sought out.  At the time, it was something
that "just came."  With today's hindsight, I see that I had the propensity for
charismatic/ecstatic experiences since a child...and that it was perhaps only a
matter of time until it would come with the force that it did.  Having had no
understanding of the process, I became a wreck, as my unconscious began rapidly
unloading.  Most of this being the result of extraordinarily abusive childhood
conditions.
>
> I sought help and understanding in many ways, and have learned from them all,
but long story short, I today follow a Jungian path ... and am currently doing a
lot of shoveling of shit (falling in the mud?), as it is sometimes called...
continue to have a lot of levels and layers of my shadow/psyche being shown me.
>
> I've spent the days living in bliss, feeling unaffected by any of my past. 
But I believe that to be truly free, we have to experience an undoing of
everything, and that this requires a complete "going through" of all the factors
and influences that comprised who and what we believe-d ourselves to be.
>
> Yet, I admit, I can get to feeling "I" am the one doing the undoing in my
process.  I also think a part of me has a penchant for drama and story...no, I
know this is so, for I love to study myth and see the effects "story" has in our
lives.  I like to study and spin things from all angles, seeing so many
possibilities, seeing things from so many points of view.  While I feel all of
this is beneficial, for my path, I also know that I do get overly identified
with it/my role in it, with the me who thinks she is the one "doing," and lose
sight of the one that knows how to just "be" in it all.
>
> I've been off my horse quite a bit lately, as I am currently experiencing much
emotional vicissitudes.  And truly seeing how much I fail in my efforts...
>
> Thanks again,
> Kristi
>
> --- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, "rosebergen" <rosestjohn@> wrote:
> >
> > Kristi,
> >
> > Kind of you to respond. And your honest sincerity prompted me to post again.
The key word is observe, i.e. witness. To be the witness is to observe what you
are experiencing without attaching to it; without judgment; without a desire to
control it (trying to ignore it is a form of control). Of course, none of this
is rigid. And we are human down here. So we can observe our desire to judge the
experience or attach significance to it and by that observation discover more
about how we operate and allow it expand who we know ourselves to be.
> >
> > Observation allows us to become aware of the connections and responses
within--emotional, rational, physiological, etc--even to be aware of the
attractions or aversions that the experience draws out of us, while continually
and with purpose returning to the witness center. We can get knocked off our
"seat" by an experience. (And, by the by, don't take "seat" literally because
this becomes our moment by moment practice.) But the point is not that we get
knocked off, the point is that we continually return to our "seat." (The horse
can buck us off, but that is not the issue, the issue is that we get up, brush
ourselves off and get back on the horse.)
> >
> > The point is to awaken in it. To expand who we know ourselves to be through
it.  We are awakening in it. We awaken to the totality of the experience and who
we are in it, layer upon layer....and then we offer it. Offer. Offer. Offer. And
all the while we are learning to ride "bucking bronco" until there is finally no
separation between the bronco and us. We ride as one. Of course, we can parse
this--we learn to ride one bronco and then we learn to ride another. So, it is
continual process. Continual unfolding. Continual expansion of who and what we
know ourselves to be.
> >
> > And we have the freedom to fall in it. Vulnerability and honesty are huge
factors in strength.Imposing impossible standards on ourselves when we cannot do
it is like following a useless script. If we get derailed in the midst of it,
know that we can be tested and fail. And still succeed. Sages are sages because
they have failed more than the rest of us and have continued. Failure is part of
success. As a matter of fact, failure may be the only true path to success. (Oh,
and did I mention, it's how we learn compassion.)
> >
> > So we have great freedom and grace to answer our call.  Our only real
commitment to it is that we continue. (As my teacher used to say, falling in the
mud is not a problem. Staying there is.) Our commitment, which is an act of
love, is what allows us to continue, no matter. Thus, love is the guiding force.
(And ultimately, there is nowhere that love is not.)
> >
> > Best,
> > Rose
> >
> >
> >   --- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, "krisskns" <krisskns@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Rose,
> > >
> > > Thank you for this reminder...offer, release, let go...to not attach
significance to experiences.
> > >
> > > While the smell of death has not remained, other scents still come and go.
I can't say that I am attaching or trying to hold onto them, they just are,
appear, both in my meditations and through my days.
> > >
> > > Yes, while I was in the presence of those dying, those moments of smelling
death did seem to also speak to my own process, for on the dates that I was
smelling death, I was also feeling/experiencing the energy of the goddess
running through me so intensely as to be all consuming.  And try as I might to
ignore/never mind "that" scent, it even followed me in my home for a few days. 
The timing of the event was consistent with contemplations on Kali.
> > >
> > > Kristi
> > >
> > > --- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, "rosebergen" <rosestjohn@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Kristi,
> > > >
> > > > As I am sure you know, many saints have had experiences with scents,
both in their meditation / prayer time, as well as during their active daily
life. The scent of roses being an extremely common one.
> > > >
> > > > I have also known others who smelled the smell of death. On occasion, it
was connected to someone who had literally died, but the person either had no
connection to the person who had died, or if a connection was there, had no way
of rationally knowing the person had died. They were simply sniffing out
something that had happened in the energy field (both physical and ethereal)
around them.
> > > >
> > > > But I think you are right, smell is connected to the essential duality
of death / rebirth; decay/resurrection--and may signify and indicate our
internal process.
> > > >
> > > > Still, best to observe and release. We don't have to define or attach
significance to every experience. That process can actually slow us down and
distract us.
> > > >
> > > > St. John of the Cross gives good advice when he counsels pay no
attention. If it was significant the experience will be stamped in you and
impact you without your having to "do" anything. If the experience was not
significant, it will not stick to you unless you attach yourself to it. If you
attach, you are in process of binding yourself instead of freeing yourself. And
the process, of course, is freedom, liberation from that to which we are bound.
(And the truth is that we do most of binding ourselves.)
> > > >
> > > > The point is, we don't do the work; it is done in us and we observe with
awe the work being done in us. Then, offer. Always offer, offer, offer--the more
we offer, release, let go, the more space we have to receive. The more you
attach, the less space.
> > > >
> > > > Again, I like the wisdom of St. John who reminds us that what has been
deposited into us through our Lord, or however you want to phrase it, cannot be
taken from us. And if we offer it; it can only expand us, as well as others.
Offering not only serves others, but it serves ourselves. Another version of it
is in very act of giving that we receive; the very act of forgiving that we are
forgiven; etc.....
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Rose
> >
>

Hi Rose,

Again, your words are helpful.  I am sometimes much better able to do as you
say, "witness."
Other times, not so well at all.  And I do see how an attempt to ignore is a
form of control, as well as the assigning of significance to events and
experiences...applying value or meaning to things that causes us to want to
"hold on" to them as "important"...to include ideas of spirituality, being or
becoming more "spiritual"...or, as you alluded to, valuations (judgments) about
doing things/walking the path, the "right way."    I understand it is all a
movement of mind, and I do often toss and turn with it all.

When my awakening came several years ago, spontaneously and very powerfully, I
was, in many ways, quite a dysfunctional person.  The awakening of the energy
was not something I "consciously" sought out.  At the time, it was something
that "just came."  With today's hindsight, I see that I had the propensity for
charismatic/ecstatic experiences since a child...and that it was perhaps only a
matter of time until it would come with the force that it did.  Having had no
understanding of the process, I became a wreck, as my unconscious began rapidly
unloading.  Most of this being the result of extraordinarily abusive childhood
conditions.

I sought help and understanding in many ways, and have learned from them all,
but long story short, I today follow a Jungian path ... and am currently doing a
lot of shoveling of shit (falling in the mud?), as it is sometimes called...
continue to have a lot of levels and layers of my shadow/psyche being shown me.

I've spent the days living in bliss, feeling unaffected by any of my past.  But
I believe that to be truly free, we have to experience an undoing of everything,
and that this requires a complete "going through" of all the factors and
influences that comprised who and what we believe-d ourselves to be.

Yet, I admit, I can get to feeling "I" am the one doing the undoing in my
process.  I also think a part of me has a penchant for drama and story...no, I
know this is so, for I love to study myth and see the effects "story" has in our
lives.  I like to study and spin things from all angles, seeing so many
possibilities, seeing things from so many points of view.  While I feel all of
this is beneficial, for my path, I also know that I do get overly identified
with it/my role in it, with the me who thinks she is the one "doing," and lose
sight of the one that knows how to just "be" in it all.

I've been off my horse quite a bit lately, as I am currently experiencing much
emotional vicissitudes.  And truly seeing how much I fail in my efforts...

Thanks again,
Kristi

--- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, "rosebergen" <rosestjohn@...> wrote:
>
> Kristi,
>
> Kind of you to respond. And your honest sincerity prompted me to post again.
The key word is observe, i.e. witness. To be the witness is to observe what you
are experiencing without attaching to it; without judgment; without a desire to
control it (trying to ignore it is a form of control). Of course, none of this
is rigid. And we are human down here. So we can observe our desire to judge the
experience or attach significance to it and by that observation discover more
about how we operate and allow it expand who we know ourselves to be.
>
> Observation allows us to become aware of the connections and responses
within--emotional, rational, physiological, etc--even to be aware of the
attractions or aversions that the experience draws out of us, while continually
and with purpose returning to the witness center. We can get knocked off our
"seat" by an experience. (And, by the by, don't take "seat" literally because
this becomes our moment by moment practice.) But the point is not that we get
knocked off, the point is that we continually return to our "seat." (The horse
can buck us off, but that is not the issue, the issue is that we get up, brush
ourselves off and get back on the horse.)
>
> The point is to awaken in it. To expand who we know ourselves to be through
it.  We are awakening in it. We awaken to the totality of the experience and who
we are in it, layer upon layer....and then we offer it. Offer. Offer. Offer. And
all the while we are learning to ride "bucking bronco" until there is finally no
separation between the bronco and us. We ride as one. Of course, we can parse
this--we learn to ride one bronco and then we learn to ride another. So, it is
continual process. Continual unfolding. Continual expansion of who and what we
know ourselves to be.
>
> And we have the freedom to fall in it. Vulnerability and honesty are huge
factors in strength.Imposing impossible standards on ourselves when we cannot do
it is like following a useless script. If we get derailed in the midst of it,
know that we can be tested and fail. And still succeed. Sages are sages because
they have failed more than the rest of us and have continued. Failure is part of
success. As a matter of fact, failure may be the only true path to success. (Oh,
and did I mention, it's how we learn compassion.)
>
> So we have great freedom and grace to answer our call.  Our only real
commitment to it is that we continue. (As my teacher used to say, falling in the
mud is not a problem. Staying there is.) Our commitment, which is an act of
love, is what allows us to continue, no matter. Thus, love is the guiding force.
(And ultimately, there is nowhere that love is not.)
>
> Best,
> Rose
>
>
>   --- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, "krisskns" <krisskns@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Rose,
> >
> > Thank you for this reminder...offer, release, let go...to not attach
significance to experiences.
> >
> > While the smell of death has not remained, other scents still come and go. 
I can't say that I am attaching or trying to hold onto them, they just are,
appear, both in my meditations and through my days.
> >
> > Yes, while I was in the presence of those dying, those moments of smelling
death did seem to also speak to my own process, for on the dates that I was
smelling death, I was also feeling/experiencing the energy of the goddess
running through me so intensely as to be all consuming.  And try as I might to
ignore/never mind "that" scent, it even followed me in my home for a few days. 
The timing of the event was consistent with contemplations on Kali.
> >
> > Kristi
> >
> > --- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, "rosebergen" <rosestjohn@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Kristi,
> > >
> > > As I am sure you know, many saints have had experiences with scents, both
in their meditation / prayer time, as well as during their active daily life.
The scent of roses being an extremely common one.
> > >
> > > I have also known others who smelled the smell of death. On occasion, it
was connected to someone who had literally died, but the person either had no
connection to the person who had died, or if a connection was there, had no way
of rationally knowing the person had died. They were simply sniffing out
something that had happened in the energy field (both physical and ethereal)
around them.
> > >
> > > But I think you are right, smell is connected to the essential duality of
death / rebirth; decay/resurrection--and may signify and indicate our internal
process.
> > >
> > > Still, best to observe and release. We don't have to define or attach
significance to every experience. That process can actually slow us down and
distract us.
> > >
> > > St. John of the Cross gives good advice when he counsels pay no attention.
If it was significant the experience will be stamped in you and impact you
without your having to "do" anything. If the experience was not significant, it
will not stick to you unless you attach yourself to it. If you attach, you are
in process of binding yourself instead of freeing yourself. And the process, of
course, is freedom, liberation from that to which we are bound. (And the truth
is that we do most of binding ourselves.)
> > >
> > > The point is, we don't do the work; it is done in us and we observe with
awe the work being done in us. Then, offer. Always offer, offer, offer--the more
we offer, release, let go, the more space we have to receive. The more you
attach, the less space.
> > >
> > > Again, I like the wisdom of St. John who reminds us that what has been
deposited into us through our Lord, or however you want to phrase it, cannot be
taken from us. And if we offer it; it can only expand us, as well as others.
Offering not only serves others, but it serves ourselves. Another version of it
is in very act of giving that we receive; the very act of forgiving that we are
forgiven; etc.....
> > >
> > >
> > > Best,
> > > Rose
>

Hi,

Any Master offering Shaktipat here for Kundalini Awakening? If yes then plz do
tell me.

Regards and Salam!

Shuaib

Kristi,

Kind of you to respond. And your honest sincerity prompted me to post again. The
key word is observe, i.e. witness. To be the witness is to observe what you are
experiencing without attaching to it; without judgment; without a desire to
control it (trying to ignore it is a form of control). Of course, none of this
is rigid. And we are human down here. So we can observe our desire to judge the
experience or attach significance to it and by that observation discover more
about how we operate and allow it expand who we know ourselves to be.

Observation allows us to become aware of the connections and responses
within--emotional, rational, physiological, etc--even to be aware of the
attractions or aversions that the experience draws out of us, while continually
and with purpose returning to the witness center. We can get knocked off our
"seat" by an experience. (And, by the by, don't take "seat" literally because
this becomes our moment by moment practice.) But the point is not that we get
knocked off, the point is that we continually return to our "seat." (The horse
can buck us off, but that is not the issue, the issue is that we get up, brush
ourselves off and get back on the horse.)

The point is to awaken in it. To expand who we know ourselves to be through it. 
We are awakening in it. We awaken to the totality of the experience and who we
are in it, layer upon layer....and then we offer it. Offer. Offer. Offer. And
all the while we are learning to ride "bucking bronco" until there is finally no
separation between the bronco and us. We ride as one. Of course, we can parse
this--we learn to ride one bronco and then we learn to ride another. So, it is
continual process. Continual unfolding. Continual expansion of who and what we
know ourselves to be.

And we have the freedom to fall in it. Vulnerability and honesty are huge
factors in strength.Imposing impossible standards on ourselves when we cannot do
it is like following a useless script. If we get derailed in the midst of it,
know that we can be tested and fail. And still succeed. Sages are sages because
they have failed more than the rest of us and have continued. Failure is part of
success. As a matter of fact, failure may be the only true path to success. (Oh,
and did I mention, it's how we learn compassion.)

So we have great freedom and grace to answer our call.  Our only real commitment
to it is that we continue. (As my teacher used to say, falling in the mud is not
a problem. Staying there is.) Our commitment, which is an act of love, is what
allows us to continue, no matter. Thus, love is the guiding force. (And
ultimately, there is nowhere that love is not.)

Best,
Rose


   --- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, "krisskns" <krisskns@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Rose,
>
> Thank you for this reminder...offer, release, let go...to not attach
significance to experiences.
>
> While the smell of death has not remained, other scents still come and go.  I
can't say that I am attaching or trying to hold onto them, they just are,
appear, both in my meditations and through my days.
>
> Yes, while I was in the presence of those dying, those moments of smelling
death did seem to also speak to my own process, for on the dates that I was
smelling death, I was also feeling/experiencing the energy of the goddess
running through me so intensely as to be all consuming.  And try as I might to
ignore/never mind "that" scent, it even followed me in my home for a few days. 
The timing of the event was consistent with contemplations on Kali.
>
> Kristi
>
> --- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, "rosebergen" <rosestjohn@> wrote:
> >
> > Kristi,
> >
> > As I am sure you know, many saints have had experiences with scents, both in
their meditation / prayer time, as well as during their active daily life. The
scent of roses being an extremely common one.
> >
> > I have also known others who smelled the smell of death. On occasion, it was
connected to someone who had literally died, but the person either had no
connection to the person who had died, or if a connection was there, had no way
of rationally knowing the person had died. They were simply sniffing out
something that had happened in the energy field (both physical and ethereal)
around them.
> >
> > But I think you are right, smell is connected to the essential duality of
death / rebirth; decay/resurrection--and may signify and indicate our internal
process.
> >
> > Still, best to observe and release. We don't have to define or attach
significance to every experience. That process can actually slow us down and
distract us.
> >
> > St. John of the Cross gives good advice when he counsels pay no attention.
If it was significant the experience will be stamped in you and impact you
without your having to "do" anything. If the experience was not significant, it
will not stick to you unless you attach yourself to it. If you attach, you are
in process of binding yourself instead of freeing yourself. And the process, of
course, is freedom, liberation from that to which we are bound. (And the truth
is that we do most of binding ourselves.)
> >
> > The point is, we don't do the work; it is done in us and we observe with awe
the work being done in us. Then, offer. Always offer, offer, offer--the more we
offer, release, let go, the more space we have to receive. The more you attach,
the less space.
> >
> > Again, I like the wisdom of St. John who reminds us that what has been
deposited into us through our Lord, or however you want to phrase it, cannot be
taken from us. And if we offer it; it can only expand us, as well as others.
Offering not only serves others, but it serves ourselves. Another version of it
is in very act of giving that we receive; the very act of forgiving that we are
forgiven; etc.....
> >
> >
> > Best,
> > Rose

I just want to thank everyone for your comments and suggestions regarding the
possibility that I am having a kundalini awakening. I learned alot from all of
your responses. I will continue to participate in the group and look forward to
learning more.

I just want to ask again if anyone knows of any contacts or people in the
Philadelphia area who have gone through or are currently going through a
kundalini awakening. I would be interested in emailing or speaking with some
people who have. I would also be interested if anyone knows of any
teachers/mentors/therapists in the Philadelphia area who have experienced a
kundalini awakening and work with people who are going through it.

Thank you very much.

thebirdman




















--- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, Pete & Courtenay Martire
<martirecustomhomes@...> wrote:
>
> back pain can & is often emotional blockage/ psychologically...
> as in not feeling supported in life either emotionally, or physically
> or that life does not meet your needs
> so there may be some cross effect w/ anxiety here originating from
psychological duress while ones transformation unfolds.
> And many people may then experience back pain from this.
>  
> coco
>  
>  
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Jeffrey S. Brooks <jhanananda@...>
> To: kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 6:27:01 PM
> Subject: [kundaliniheat] Re: Having a Kundalini Awakening-----I have some
questions
>
> Well, Anna, the questions that arise are:
>
> "How reliable a source are you with respect to the attainment of charisms?"
>
> Even if you are a reliable source, how do we know that, just because you had
back pain, it had anything at all to do with your charisms?"
>
> My answers:
>
> I have read your messages for years, and I do not buy at all that you have
been "through it."  Yes, you may have a few charisms, but your messages do not
read as one who has gone "through it," or even figured it out.  Secondly, I see
no correlation between back pain and charisms.  Certainly none of the major
mystics reported such a relationship, so why should we believe you?  And, I have
read the reports of hundreds of genuine charismatics on this and the Jhanas
forum and none of the members of the Jhanas forum reported back pain in
association to their charisms, and few here have ever made an issue with back
pain until recently.  While, yes, I have had back pain, I have found no
relationship between my back pain and my charisms.  My back pains were more
related to injuries sustained in bicycle accidents.
>
> Best regards, Jeffrey
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Individual Contemplative and Charismatic Counseling is now available through
the GWV via phone, email and Yahoo Messenger at info@...
>
> If you value the services of the Great Western Vehicle, then please consider
supporting it with a contribution today.
> http://www.greatwesternvehicle.org/support.htmlYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Rose,

Thank you for this reminder...offer, release, let go...to not attach
significance to experiences.

While the smell of death has not remained, other scents still come and go.  I
can't say that I am attaching or trying to hold onto them, they just are,
appear, both in my meditations and through my days.

Yes, while I was in the presence of those dying, those moments of smelling death
did seem to also speak to my own process, for on the dates that I was smelling
death, I was also feeling/experiencing the energy of the goddess running through
me so intensely as to be all consuming.  And try as I might to ignore/never mind
"that" scent, it even followed me in my home for a few days.  The timing of the
event was consistent with contemplations on Kali.

Kristi

--- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, "rosebergen" <rosestjohn@...> wrote:
>
> Kristi,
>
> As I am sure you know, many saints have had experiences with scents, both in
their meditation / prayer time, as well as during their active daily life. The
scent of roses being an extremely common one.
>
> I have also known others who smelled the smell of death. On occasion, it was
connected to someone who had literally died, but the person either had no
connection to the person who had died, or if a connection was there, had no way
of rationally knowing the person had died. They were simply sniffing out
something that had happened in the energy field (both physical and ethereal)
around them.
>
> But I think you are right, smell is connected to the essential duality of
death / rebirth; decay/resurrection--and may signify and indicate our internal
process.
>
> Still, best to observe and release. We don't have to define or attach
significance to every experience. That process can actually slow us down and
distract us.
>
> St. John of the Cross gives good advice when he counsels pay no attention. If
it was significant the experience will be stamped in you and impact you without
your having to "do" anything. If the experience was not significant, it will not
stick to you unless you attach yourself to it. If you attach, you are in process
of binding yourself instead of freeing yourself. And the process, of course, is
freedom, liberation from that to which we are bound. (And the truth is that we
do most of binding ourselves.)
>
> The point is, we don't do the work; it is done in us and we observe with awe
the work being done in us. Then, offer. Always offer, offer, offer--the more we
offer, release, let go, the more space we have to receive. The more you attach,
the less space.
>
> Again, I like the wisdom of St. John who reminds us that what has been
deposited into us through our Lord, or however you want to phrase it, cannot be
taken from us. And if we offer it; it can only expand us, as well as others.
Offering not only serves others, but it serves ourselves. Another version of it
is in very act of giving that we receive; the very act of forgiving that we are
forgiven; etc.....
>
>
> Best,
> Rose
>
>
> --- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, "krisskns" <krisskns@> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you, Jeffrey, for pointing me to the article, and Derek, for sharing
what you did.
> >
> > Yes, I recall from the smell and tast lab experiements in school that the
two are connected.
> >
> > I've experienced each of the charisms described in the articles, to varying
degrees, over the past years.
> >
> > With the smell, they are mostly pleasing scents - earthy, strong floral,
incense, but when working with those in the active process of dying, I would
smell what I could only describe as death/decay and with that, a psychic
impression of what that process is like.  I ended up feeling like I was
dying/surrendering to death, on some level.  Strange moments.  I felt very
weighty and even dreamed myself expiring a least breath.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kristi
> >
> > --- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, Derek Lucas <yoga_coach@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Kristi,
> > >  
> > >             this scents experience has been a powerful experience for me
in the past too.
> > >  
> > > I have had both beautiful (almost overwhelmingly heady floral scents) and
terrifying (smell of burning rubber with associated past-life fears from death
from fire/smoke inhalation) experiences.
> > >  
> > > In either case the fact that it is smell firmly establishes it in the
realm of muladhara (root) chakra (from a tantric perspective).
> > >  
> > > On a physical level taste and smell are strongly connected, try holding
your nose whilst eating with your eyes closed and you may be amazed at how
little of what you are eating can be identified by taste alone. I have seen
people eat a raw potato in this way thinking it was an apple!
> > >  
> > > Namaste Derek
> > >  
> > >  
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 9/7/09, Jeffrey S. Brooks <jhanananda@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Jeffrey S. Brooks <jhanananda@>
> > > Subject: [kundaliniheat] Re: Scents
> > > To: kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Thursday, 9 July, 2009, 2:51 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Kristi, charisms, or psychic phenomena, can arise in any one of the
senses, or any combination of them, so psycicaly smelling and tasting does
indeed occur. These phenomena were known as 'jhana-nimitta' in early Buddhism.
You may find reading the following article on this subject most interesting.
> > > http://www.greatwes ternvehicle. org/jhananimitta .htm
> > >
> > > Best, Jeffrey
> > >
> > > --- In kundaliniheat@ yahoogroups. com, "krisskns" <krisskns@ .> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone speak about smelling things psychically? Has anyone
experienced this?
> > > >
> > > > After experiencing a rising of Kundalini last year, I became aware of a
scent that permeated my awareness. It was at first so profuse that I tasted it
as well as smelled it, while also feeling much energy within and surroungind my
body.
> > > >
> > > > Kristi
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

Hi Derek,

Whoa!  What we are capable of (and don't even know because we haven't accessed
yet). The human being is, in my opinion, our greatest resource.

So glad you took the time to share this with us!

Blessings on your and yours,
Rose

--- In kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com, Derek Lucas <yoga_coach@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Rose,
>  
> This is not strictly related, but I was touched by this yesterday and feel I'd
like to share it.
>  
> I was walking with a friend who is 100% blind (he cannot even see if it is
night or day).
>  
> We were walking around a rose garden and at each rose bud my friend would stop
to sniff the scent. He would then tell me the colour!
>  
> At one point he looked a little non-plussed, saying "this one is confusing me,
I get a scent of orange but also of pink rose. What colour is it?"
>  
> It was a beautiful coral colour!
>  
>           Namaste Derek
>
>
> Why not visit www.hockleyyoga.co.uk ?
>
> --- On Mon, 3/8/09, rosebergen <rosestjohn@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: rosebergen <rosestjohn@...>
> Subject: [kundaliniheat] Re: Scents
> To: kundaliniheat@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, 3 August, 2009, 11:52 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Kristi,
>
> As I am sure you know, many saints have had experiences with scents, both in
their meditation / prayer time, as well as during their active daily life. The
scent of roses being an extremely common one.
>
> I have also known others who smelled the smell of death. On occasion, it was
connected to someone who had literally died, but the person either had no
connection to the person who had died, or if a connection was there, had no way
of rationally knowing the person had died. They were simply sniffing out
something that had happened in the energy field (both physical and ethereal)
around them.
>
> But I think you are right, smell is connected to the essential duality of
death / rebirth; decay/resurrection- -and may signify and indicate our internal
process.
>
> Still, best to observe and release. We don't have to define or attach
significance to every experience. That process can actually slow us down and
distract us.
>
> St. John of the Cross gives good advice when he counsels pay no attention. If
it was significant the experience will be stamped in you and impact you without
your having to "do" anything. If the experience was not significant, it will not
stick to you unless you attach yourself to it. If you attach, you are in process
of binding yourself instead of freeing yourself. And the process, of course, is
freedom, liberation from that to which we are bound. (And the truth is that we
do most of binding ourselves.)
>
> The point is, we don't do the work; it is done in us and we observe with awe
the work being done in us. Then, offer. Always offer, offer, offer--the more we
offer, release, let go, the more space we have to receive. The more you attach,
the less space.
>
> Again, I like the wisdom of St. John who reminds us that what has been
deposited into us through our Lord, or however you want to phrase it, cannot be
taken from us. And if we offer it; it can only expand us, as well as others.
Offering not only serves others, but it serves ourselves. Another version of it
is in very act of giving that we receive; the very act of forgiving that we are
forgiven; etc.....
>
> Best,
> Rose
>
> --- In kundaliniheat@ yahoogroups. com, "krisskns" <krisskns@ .> wrote:
> >
> > Thank you, Jeffrey, for pointing me to the article, and Derek, for sharing
what you did.
> >
> > Yes, I recall from the smell and tast lab experiements in school that the
two are connected.
> >
> > I've experienced each of the charisms described in the articles, to varying
degrees, over the past years.
> >
> > With the smell, they are mostly pleasing scents - earthy, strong floral,
incense, but when working with those in the active process of dying, I would
smell what I could only describe as death/decay and with that, a psychic
impression of what that process is like. I ended up feeling like I was
dying/surrendering to death, on some level. Strange moments. I felt very weighty
and even dreamed myself expiring a least breath.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Kristi
> >
> > --- In kundaliniheat@ yahoogroups. com, Derek Lucas <yoga_coach@ > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Kristi,
> > >  
> > >             this scents experience has been a powerful experience for me
in the past too.
> > >  
> > > I have had both beautiful (almost overwhelmingly heady floral scents) and
terrifying (smell of burning rubber with associated past-life fears from death
from fire/smoke inhalation) experien ces.
> > >  
> > > In either case the fact that it is smell firmly establishes it in the
realm of muladhara (root) chakra (from a tantric perspective) .
> > >  
> > > On a physical level taste and smell are strongly connected, try holding
your nose whilst eating with your eyes closed and you may be amazed at how
little of what you are eating can be identified by taste alone. I have seen
people eat a raw potato in this way thinking it was an apple!
> > >  
> > > Namaste Derek
> > >  
> > >  
> > >  
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 9/7/09, Jeffrey S. Brooks <jhanananda@ > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Jeffrey S. Brooks <jhanananda@ >
> > > Subject: [kundaliniheat] Re: Scents
> > > To: kundaliniheat@ yahoogroups. com
> > > Date: Thursday, 9 July, 2009, 2:51 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Kristi, charisms, or psychic phenomena, can arise in any one of the
senses, or any combination of them, so psycicaly smelling and tasting does
indeed occur. These phenomena were known as 'jhana-nimitta' in early Buddhism.
You may find reading the following article on this subject most interesting.
> > > http://www.greatwes ternvehicle. org/jhananimitta .htm
> > >
> > > Best, Jeffrey
> > >
> > > --- In kundaliniheat@ yahoogroups. com, "krisskns" <krisskns@ .> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone speak about smelling things psychically? Has anyone
experienced this?
> > > >
> > > > After experiencing a rising of Kundalini last year, I became aware of a
scent that permeated my awareness. It was at first so profuse that I tasted it
as well as smelled it, while also feeling much energy within and surroungind my
body.
> > > >
> > > > Kristi
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>