Hello all.

Two things.  First, I've really enjoyed the stuff that I've been
reading and the work that is being put into the two games I'm playing.
  I enjoy working with talented writers.  So...much appreciation.

Secondly, I'm going to a video game conference in Texas and I'll be
gone from Wednesday to Saturday.  Whereas I wish I wasn't I'll get to
learn about a bunch of stuff and get a bunch of stuff and that doesn't
suck.  So...I'm off.  See ya on Sunday.

"Q"

--- In knights_fantasy@yahoogroups.com, "J" <jalbright@...> wrote:
>
> Of course all of these questions are in the context of the
Knightverse, but I wanted to emphasize that on this particular topic.
  I know we all have our own personal beliefs on death, life, and
things like that, and it's cool to incorporate some of that.  (Heck, I
believe that the more personal a piece of writing is, the better.
Maybe that's just me.)  But I want to make sure this doesn't
degenerate into a debate of religious differences.
> So anyway, death in the Knightverse.  As some characters indicate,
it's not a permanent thing.  Some people can be brought back to
life...so just how transient is the concept of death?  Does it mean
what people think it means?  It's a pretty big question, I think, so
I'm hoping to get some interesting and varied feedback.
>
> J.

All right: Here's my take on what death might be, and this is just as
sort of a riff on what's already happened. I think death isn't so much
a finality as it is simply a transition. People, instead of dying, are
simply transported to other dimensions or planes of existence. (Halo,
Elsewhere, et. al) So, when they die, it *is* possible to find their
way back to the point of origin, but incredibly difficult, making it
not final.

I sort of agree with Sam but I'm going to add a bit of my religious
beliefs into it. Every soul has so much work to do in universe. When
that soul has done the work it dies and goes on to completion. For
souls that die but have not yet completed their work, they go
somewhere else, another plane. (A heaven or hell to make a Christian
reference). When it's time, they are reborn to continue their work.

This would explain why some people who die are simply dead and yet
others can be resurrected.

If I remember correctly from the original movie or maybe the book
based off the movie, that when a new Slayer was chosen, it was based
off who was closest to a big evil. If you recall the movie, Buffy was
chosen because that master was in LA and she needed to kill the
master. As for the who, I would say simply the Power that Be or in the
case of HALO Aura. Aura simply detects the place of most need and puts
its new champion there.

Well if we assume my death theory stated earlier or Sam's, where when
you die you/your soul goes onto another place but isn't gone and we
assume that vampires are soulless, this could give you some fun
effects. I would agree that the only way to be brought back is as
human since vampires have no soul to be pulled back into this world.
Vampire is merely a state of the body and has nothing to do with the
person who once inhabited it. An interesting though is what if you
have a guy named Bob and Bob is made into a vampire so his soul
departs. Now say Aura decides it's time for Bob to come back or
somebody resurrects Bob's soul. Could you not have Bob and vampire Bob
walking around at the same time? Maybe this makes sense or maybe I
just need sleep.

well i would think that a vampire loses his/her soul and the soul is
trapped between the worlds or in the hell or wherever. May be once the
vampire is killed the soul is freed or may be completely lost...

jeenu


--- In knights_fantasy@yahoogroups.com, "Amber" <arbad69@...> wrote:
>
> Well if we assume my death theory stated earlier or Sam's, where when
> you die you/your soul goes onto another place but isn't gone and we
> assume that vampires are soulless, this could give you some fun
> effects. I would agree that the only way to be brought back is as
> human since vampires have no soul to be pulled back into this world.
> Vampire is merely a state of the body and has nothing to do with the
> person who once inhabited it. An interesting though is what if you
> have a guy named Bob and Bob is made into a vampire so his soul
> departs. Now say Aura decides it's time for Bob to come back or
> somebody resurrects Bob's soul. Could you not have Bob and vampire
Bob
> walking around at the same time? Maybe this makes sense or maybe I
> just need sleep.
>

I've posted this once before, but Yahoo isn't working, so I'm posting again.

Anyway, I've never seen Buffy, but I have a few ideas that could answer your question.

I'll start with the easiest. Aura is what choses Elementals and Slayers.

As for how they are chosen, there are several choices. They might just be chosen at random, as long as they fulfil certain parameters, like being women. Although I'm not sure if that can be a parameter since there were two male Slayers... Anyway, another choice is what Amber said. Aura might choose whoever is closest to the place where a Champion is needed, and make that person a Slayer/Elemental. A third choice is that Aura has many parameters that people must meet to become a Slayer or Elemental, and only someone who passes all of them will become a Slayer/Elemental, and the person's location isn't given any consideration unless that's one of the parameters.

I think that the answer is a combination of choices two and three. The people closest to the area where a Champion will be needed are picked, and then they are checked for all the proper parameters. The one who passes this test become the new Slayer/Elemental.

I agree, pretty much with everything that you said. Although I'd like to
add that Wraiths are a type of vampire as well, and they can be
ressurected.

And like you said, I think it's possible for the vampire and a
ressurected human to be in the same body. It would be like they had
split personality disorder, and the one with the strongest will power
would rule.

I've tried to post this before as well, but it didn't work either. Knowing yahoo, it'll double post this.

The way I see it, once you die you leave the standard Knightverse dimensions, and either go to higher dimensions and live there, or you leave the Knightverse universe entirely, and live somewhere completely different.

Also, there are two types of death. There is absolute death, and partial death. (Or that's what I've named them anyway) Absolute death is the normal type of death, and the kind that you can't return from, unless someone else brings you back. Partial death is like being stuck in the Void was. The people trapped there could return once the Demon Essence that was keeping them there was shattered.  

Anyway, the point is that death is a transition into the next and higher dimension(s). It is possible that after death different people go to different dimensions. I don't mean Hell and Heaven type places, but different dimensions, like Halo and Realm, only on a higher plane of being.

I don't know if this cycle of going on to a higher dimension after death continues, or if it stops at some point, but I favor the former, unless the limit is very far off.

I've tried to post this before as well, but it didn't work either. Knowing yahoo, it'll double post this.

The way I see it, once you die you leave the standard Knightverse dimensions, and either go to higher dimensions and live there, or you leave the Knightverse universe entirely, and live somewhere completely different.

Also, there are two types of death. There is absolute death, and partial death. (Or that's what I've named them anyway) Absolute death is the normal type of death, and the kind that you can't return from, unless someone else brings you back. Partial death is like being stuck in the Void was. The people trapped there could return once the Demon Essence that was keeping them there was shattered.  

Anyway, the point is that death is a transition into the next and higher dimension(s). It is possible that after death different people go to different dimensions. I don't mean Hell and Heaven type places, but different dimensions, like Halo and Realm, only on a higher plane of being.

I don't know if this cycle of going on to a higher dimension after death continues, or if it stops at some point, but I favor the former, unless the limit is very far off.

I've never seen Buffy, but I have a few ideas that could answer your
question.

I'll start with the easiest. Aura is what choses Elementals and Slayers.

As for how they are chosen, there are several choices. They might just
be chosen at random, as long as they fulfil certain parameters, like
being women. Although I'm not sure if that can be a parameter since
there were two male Slayers... Anyway, another choice is what Amber
said. Aura might choose whoever is closest to the place where a Champion
is needed, and make that person a Slayer/Elemental. A third choice is
that Aura has many parameters that people must meet to become a Slayer
or Elemental, and only someone who passes all of them will become a
Slayer/Elemental, and the person's location isn't given any
consideration unless that's one of the parameters.

I think that the answer is a combination of choices two and three. The
people closest to the area where a Champion will be needed are picked,
and then they are checked for all the proper parameters. The one who
passes this test become the new Slayer/Elemental.

I can see this answer being true, but I also see flaws in it.  What
about when the Champion is needed in LA, then Miami, then Rome?  Does
Aura foot the bill for air travel, put them their magically, or just
choose a second Champion?  I only pose these questions because
trouble is seldom in one place at any given time.

--- In knights_fantasy@yahoogroups.com, "Alex" <alideman1@...> wrote:
>
>
> I've posted this once before, but Yahoo isn't working, so I'm
posting
> again.
>
> Anyway, I've never seen Buffy, but I have a few ideas that could
answer
> your question.
>
> I'll start with the easiest. Aura is what choses Elementals and
Slayers.
>
> As for how they are chosen, there are several choices. They might
just
> be chosen at random, as long as they fulfil certain parameters, like
> being women. Although I'm not sure if that can be a parameter since
> there were two male Slayers... Anyway, another choice is what Amber
> said. Aura might choose whoever is closest to the place where a
Champion
> is needed, and make that person a Slayer/Elemental. A third choice
is
> that Aura has many parameters that people must meet to become a
Slayer
> or Elemental, and only someone who passes all of them will become a
> Slayer/Elemental, and the person's location isn't given any
> consideration unless that's one of the parameters.
>
> I think that the answer is a combination of choices two and three.
The
> people closest to the area where a Champion will be needed are
picked,
> and then they are checked for all the proper parameters. The one who
> passes this test become the new Slayer/Elemental.
>

The way I see it, if that happened then the already chosen Champion
would have to go to the place where the trouble is him/herself. Aura
only chooses Champions when one is missing, and a new one must be
chosen.

I'm not sure about the Void, and how dead the ones in it were, but I
have an idea. They were as dead as anyone else who died, but somehow
they were able to come back. So perhaps they themselves were completely
dead, but the barriers between the wherever the dead go, and the regular
'mortal coil' were weakened there, and that is why they could return.

Death does feel less significant in the Knightverse because people can
be ressurected. However, it doesn't really cheapen anything, because
only a few get to come back, while most others go on to wherever the
next phase of their "life" is. The best way to get around the small
problem created by this is not to have many people be resurrected, and
or have the ones that are resurrected come back only for a limited time.
And the after-life dimensions don't make death less significant at all,
because once you die, you're gone from your home dimension and can no
longer help or see the people that you know there, or even go back
there.

Anyway, I'm out of things to say, but I want to add that I like the idea
about destiny and some people being more likely to be ressurected to
fulfill their destinies.

--- In knights_fantasy@yahoogroups.com, Justice <jalbright@...> wrote:
>
> Expanding on what Sam and Alex said, I remember watching an episode of
Buffy (from where I tend to borrow ideas) that implied the afterlife
took place in other dimensions—heaven dimensions or hell dimensions.
These places existed on a different plane of existence than what we know
as the "mortal coil", and the only way to get into these is to
die.
>
> Put that way, death can be construed as just the next part of the
process we know as existence. It's funny; I hadn't planned on it
developing that way, but that's how the religions of the world view
death, isn't it? Death isn't the end, there's more to life
than what we see, etc.
> I also wanted to comment on the partial death concept Alex presented.
It's an interesting idea, but it's one I never really explored
before. The Void was as "dead" as dead can be…at least as
far as I planned it. If that's the case, then we haven't really
seen what "partial death" could look like. Sounds like
interesting story potential.
> I would say, however, that once a person dies (in the Knightverse)
they don't go on to yet another mortal dimension.
> As for Amber's statement about fulfilling one's purpose…I
personally agree that everyone has a purpose—or destiny, as you may
call it. If you've read along, you can see I've injected that
into the writing. It didn't occur to me to add that element to the
equation on death, though. The way I understand Amber, certain
individuals are more "predisposed" to be resurrected (or
recycled, perhaps?) if their destiny is not yet achieved. The idea of a
final final resting place (or completion, as Amber called it) is one
that appeals to me a great deal. Otherwise some people could be brought
back repeatedly, which doesn't seem all that "fair" or even
efficient to me.
> As an afterthought, does anyone believe that this idea of
afterlife-dimensions cheapens the concept of death? In the real world,
we see death as something that can't be reversed, nullified, or
fixed. In the Knightverse, there's a potential to change things. If
this does, in fact, reduce the significance of death, does anyone have
any thoughts on how we might overcome that?
>
> J.
>