Here is the serial to USB adapter that Joan says works well

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=531841&sku=A225-1031

In the link field of the compatibility database I put a link to Amazon
selling the same thing.

You might get free shipping buying from Amazon, but not sure. It
depends on whether they are simply linking to TigerDirect as they
sometimes do...

Generally though these adapters sell for as low as $10 but usually
about $14, but not this brand. If folks experiment and find a cheaper
one, please post here.

-- John.

--- In kminternals@yahoogroups.com, "Kidoodles3" <Kidoodles3@c...> wrote:
> Here is the serial to USB adapter that Joan says works well
>
>
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=5
> 31841
>
<http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=
> 531841&sku=A225-1031> &sku=A225-1031

http://www.acay.com.au/~dcdixon/download.htm


The only difference between 930 and 940 is memory size.  Perhaps the
930 cable ony has a certain speed??  Hmm.

Passapknits group has it in it's files section.

I've uploaded all possible test patterns with 2 rows, 1 stitch per
row. I have included both the .bin and hex dumps as .txt files so
that the files can be compared to each other.

I think I'm going to skip straight to 8 stitches X 1 row and 1
stitch X 8 rows, and after that 11 stitches X 1 row and 1 stitch X
11 rows. I'm only going to do one pattern of each of the 4 though,
i.e. I'm not going to go through all on/off permutations.


BTW, does anyone know if the DAK .PAT format is public? If not,
anyone with DAK care to generate similar test patterns in .PAT
format? If we can figure out the native km format eventually we'll
want to be able to convert to/from DAK format.

-- John.

--- In kminternals@yahoogroups.com, "mapmsmith2" <mapmsmith2@y...>
wrote:
>
> http://www.acay.com.au/~dcdixon/download.htm
>

Thanks.

>
> The only difference between 930 and 940 is memory size.  Perhaps
the
> 930 cable ony has a certain speed??  Hmm.

Nope, all serial cables can handle all speeds. The only possible
difference would be in tolerance for electrical signalling levels.

-- John.

--- In kminternals@yahoogroups.com, "mapmsmith2" <mapmsmith2@y...>
wrote:
>
> Passapknits group has it in it's files section.

Well you can upload it to the Passap directory in the files section.
If the author's name is in the file you can hit them up for
permission to upload it here, but I'd be surprised if anyone cared
about redistribution on such info.

-- John.

Description of the basic bit/byte/word order of kh930 pattern data
as saved to fdd has been uploaded to the Files->Data Analysis
section.

Note that this only covers the pattern data, not memos, etc. There
is still a lot of the file format to figure out/describe, but the
pattern data is the heart of the file format, so it's a start.

-- John.

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the kminternals
group.

   File        : /Data and Analysis/progress_report.xls
   Uploaded by : jhogerhuis <jhoger@...>
   Description : Progress report - what work is left to do in understanding the
Brother 930 pattern format

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kminternals/files/Data%20and%20Analysis/progress_r\
eport.xls

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

jhogerhuis <jhoger@...>

Hi Dev,

It's an Excel spreadsheet, and you may not have Excel installed on your
computer. But I actually created it in OpenOffice. If you'd like to
install OpenOffice, go to http://openoffice.org it's a free work-alike
to Microsoft Office.

I'll upload a read-only PDF version that everyone can read.

BTW, there isn't a whole lot of progress yet. This document just shows
all the work that's up-for-grabs in reverse engineering the file format
so that everyone knows what is left to be done, and those that wish to
follow progress or pick up a task can see what there is to do.

-- John.


On Sun, 2004-12-05 at 10:40, Devav@... wrote:
> Am unable to open this file to see al the good stuff that you have
> been working on. Get message that windows is unable to open.
> DEV
>
> In a message dated 12/5/2004 9:33:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> kminternals@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
> >
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kminternals/files/Data%20and%20Analysis/progress_r\
eport.xls
> >
>
>
>
>                         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>                                           ADVERTISEMENT
>                                              click here
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>       * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>         http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kminternals/
>
>       * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>         kminternals-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>       * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>         Service.
>

I've created a database for MK terminology. Please add any and all
jargon peculiar to MK'ing here.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kminternals/database?method=reportRows&tbl=4

I'm hoping these databases will give folks not knowledgeable about low
level details a helpful way to contribute practically.

Later,

-- John.

my machine was damaged in shipping. I warned the person to pack it
correctly but it did not prevent a cracked base. Now Fedex is
estimating the damages. Funny thing is that hte lady who sent it to
me, worked for UPS and "knew all about shipping".

The good news is that I have a nice garter carriage.

Also, brother in England turned out to be in a  joking mood when they
said that they didn't have any info, it sounded like a passage from
My Fair Lady.

Another person who used to have that interface info and gave me a lot
of hopes, so far has not responend.

Mike

On Sat, 2004-12-18 at 15:07, mikezcnc wrote:
> my machine was damaged in shipping. I warned the person to pack it
> correctly but it did not prevent a cracked base. Now Fedex is
> estimating the damages. Funny thing is that hte lady who sent it to
> me, worked for UPS and "knew all about shipping".

Sorry to hear that.

Well if they calculate damage by weight as the airlines do, you should
be ok ;-)

The thing you don't want is to get something damaged that's expensive
and light.

>
> The good news is that I have a nice garter carriage.
>
> Also, brother in England turned out to be in a  joking mood when they
> said that they didn't have any info, it sounded like a passage from
> My Fair Lady.
>

Well I don't think much help will come through official channels. If
anything, if somebody has contacts with one-time Brother hardware or
firmware engineers, maybe one of them could dig up some info for us.
Engineer to engineer is usually the best way to get information, in my
opinion. Even if they don't feel ok with giving out docs, most engineers
feel comfortable answering questions about obsolete products, especially
as in this case where the company has completely left the business.

Otherwise, I think we're on our own to figure this stuff out.

I've posted some preliminary work, and I'm doing more research
currently, I should have several significant revelations on the format
soon.

-- John.

I was able to secure a mint KH940. This time I will have a
professional packing company to ship it. I also have a garter
carriage and that means the only thing I am missing is DAK... Mike

Just want to let folks know I made a bit of progress on the data
format.

First, the stuff in Files is somewhat out of date due to a couple of
errors I made: one, the hexdumps I made were swapping every other
byte, and the other is that the first two pattern rows I was
decoding are special cases (the first two rows are duplicated in the
data format... presumably with 'selector' applied).

The actual completed pattern "ends" at 06df and works backward.

At 6df back you first see the memos. Each memo is encoded as a
nibble (4 bits, or one hex digit). The low byte at 6df is the memo
for the first row, and the high byte at 6df is the memo for the
second row, and so forth. There is a nibble set aside for each row.
If there is no memo, then the nibble is 0.

Continuing to work backwards from the last memo is the first row of
the full pattern. Note that rows are aligned on nibble boundaries.
So if there is only one stitch in a row it still takes up a whole
nibble. If there are 5 stitches in the row (i.e., 5 bits), then I
believe it will take up two nibbles, (a nibble is 4 bits), and so
forth.

The header (the first 16 bytes of the first of the 1K sectors
written during a Save Pattern operation) has the number of stitches
and rows encoded in it.

Anyway, I'll write up something more complete soon as I determine
more things concretely, but I'm making progress.

-- John.

Turns out it was a crook. Now he is banned from ebay and I was able
to save few buyers from her.

Got money back now we are haggling about fees that she extracted from
me.

I give up on the hobby. Twice I tried and twice I failed. Someone
somewhere was telling something and I wasn't listening. Now I do.

I am out of this hobby.

Good luck.

Mike

--- In kminternals@yahoogroups.com, "mikezcnc" <eemikez@c...> wrote:
>
> I was able to secure a mint KH940. This time I will have a
> professional packing company to ship it. I also have a garter
> carriage and that means the only thing I am missing is DAK... Mike

On Wed, 2005-01-19 at 11:59, mikezcnc wrote:
> Turns out it was a crook. Now he is banned from ebay and I was able
> to save few buyers from her.
>
> Got money back now we are haggling about fees that she extracted from
> me.
>
> I give up on the hobby. Twice I tried and twice I failed. Someone
> somewhere was telling something and I wasn't listening. Now I do.

Wow, no luck for you, Mike.

Sorry to hear it didn't work out.

-- John.

On Sat, 2005-01-29 at 02:09, Holger.Schefczik@... wrote:
> Hello,
> my name is Holger and I live in Bochum, a city with about 400.000
> citizen in Germany. I'm searching for a long time for a group in
> german about knitting, specially the technic about connecting my
> brother kh930 with a pc. I'm happy to found this group and I hope, I
> can support the projects, although my english ist not the best ;-)
>
> Many greetings from Bochum, Germany
> Holger

Hello Holger, and Welcome.

Glad to have you on the list.

The focus here at the moment is to figure out the data format the KH930
uses to save/load patterns to the disk drive.

I have a good start on it, and I'm hoping some other engineer types will
pitch in. I do not know what level you wish to particpate at, but any
help is appreciated.

If you are just looking for general knitting machine information, you
should also join the knittingmachines@yahoogroups.com


-- John.

On Sat, 2005-01-29 at 12:48, Devav@... wrote:
> HI:
> I thought that you were trying to figure out a DAK type thing.
> DEV
>

Yes, that is part of it too.

The KH930 saves and loads to DAK the same way it saves and loads to a
disk drive. Basically, DAK acts as a disk drive emulator in this regard.

Eventually the information I get will be used to create a DAK style
program for PalmOS. The PalmOS program will act as a disk drive, but
also allow you to edit programs.

It would be great is someone also reverse engineered the DAK pattern
format. Then we would have cross compatibility between the two programs.

Anyway, I'm starting with the KH930's pattern format since you have to
start somewhere. The protocol itself is already defined in the
documentation I've put up in the files section. The only question
remaining is the details of the data format itself. I've already figured
out generally how the pattern & memos are formatted, but there are some
more details to uncover.

-- John,

----- Original Message -----

From: John R. Hogerhuis

To: kminternals@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 11:30 AM

Subject: Re: [kminternals] Hello, I'm a new member of this group

On Sat, 2005-01-29 at 02:09, Holger.Schefczik@... wrote:
> Hello,
> my name is Holger and I live in Bochum, a city with about 400.000
> citizen in Germany. I'm searching for a long time for a group in
> german about knitting, specially the technic about connecting my
> brother kh930 with a pc. I'm happy to found this group and I hope, I
> can support the projects, although my english ist not the best ;-)
> 
> Many greetings from Bochum, Germany
> Holger

Hello Holger, and Welcome.

Glad to have you on the list.

The focus here at the moment is to figure out the data format the KH930
uses to save/load patterns to the disk drive.

I have a good start on it, and I'm hoping some other engineer types will
pitch in. I do not know what level you wish to particpate at, but any
help is appreciated.

If you are just looking for general knitting machine information, you
should also join the knittingmachines@yahoogroups.com


-- John.

----- Original Message -----

From: Devav@...

To: kminternals@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 9:46 PM

Subject: Re: [kminternals] Digest Number 15

Holger:

Welcome. I also have the 930.  I suggest that you also join the Knittingmachine list on yahoo. There are several german speaking members on there and they are always helpful.


In a message dated 1/29/2005 6:12:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, kminternals@yahoogroups.com writes:

From: Holger.Schefczik@...
Subject: Hello, I'm a new member of this group

Hello,
my name is Holger and I live in Bochum, a city with about 400.000 citizen in Germany. I'm searching for a long time for a group in german about knitting, specially the technic about connecting my brother kh930 with a pc. I'm happy to found this group and I hope, I can support the projects, although my english ist not the best ;-)

Many greetings from Bochum, Germany
Holger

DEV
(CONNIE in LA CA, USA)

On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 12:09, Holger.Schefczik@... wrote:
> Hello John, thanks for the welcome.
>
> Here some facts of me and my experience about knitting, kh930 and so
> on....
>
> I have a kh930, a fb100 disk drive and a ppd. Since November last year
> I am looking for a possibility to connect my km with my pc. I found
> several Information in the internet and so I began to work.
>
> But the solutions doesn't works (I don't know why) and so I begann to
> built my own cable to connect the pc with the fb100. The cable had a
> TTL to CMOS-converter and a nor-gatter to convert rx and tx from +5V
> to ground an back. It's expensive, but it works good.

Other serial cables:

You can use the serial cable from a Tandy Portable Disk Drive 1 or 2
(this is what I use). Anyway this cable proves that a unpowered cable is
possible, though I understand there is some electronics in these cables.

You might be able to use a DAK serial cable.

>  Then I found a software, based on basic, in the internet for the
> communication between pc and fb100. The software is called sector2.

I haven't found that! Could you send me a copy or upload to the files
section? Thanks! Was this code perhaps for the TRS-80 Model 100?

>  I had to adapt the software for my system and it also works for 80%.
> So, now I am able to give instructions to the fb100 and get back the
> (error) level/codes.

I have some minimal Forth code that does this too.

>  At next I will save a simple pattern from km to the disk and then I
> will try to read the data from the disk into the pc for analyse. I
> think your analyse will help me. If someone wants the layout and the
> software, I can put them here into the group.

That's what we're here for! To collect as much info and code as we can
to make future projects possible.

>
> In the next time I will directly connect the pc to the kh930, because
> I want to save the pattern directly on the pc. Perhaps I will have the
> possibility to send pattern by eMail to friends and so an.

I'd also like someone to figure out the DAK format so that we can do
conversions to/from .PAT. Unfortunately I don't own a copy, so if
someone else wants to do that work, or donate their unused copy, I would
be grateful.


> To connect a palm or pocketpc with the km is a very good Idea. I hope
> I can help in next time, although I am not a professional.


No matter, it sounds like you're capable anyway.

Welcome on board Holger! It will be nice to have someone to share the
load with!

-- John.

----- Original Message -----

From: John R. Hogerhuis

To: kminternals@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 9:25 PM

Subject: Re: [kminternals] Hello, I'm a new member of this group

On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 12:09, Holger.Schefczik@... wrote:
> Hello John, thanks for the welcome.
> 
> Here some facts of me and my experience about knitting, kh930 and so
> on....
> 
> I have a kh930, a fb100 disk drive and a ppd. Since November last year
> I am looking for a possibility to connect my km with my pc. I found
> several Information in the internet and so I began to work.
> 
> But the solutions doesn't works (I don't know why) and so I begann to
> built my own cable to connect the pc with the fb100. The cable had a
> TTL to CMOS-converter and a nor-gatter to convert rx and tx from +5V
> to ground an back. It's expensive, but it works good.

Other serial cables:

You can use the serial cable from a Tandy Portable Disk Drive 1 or 2
(this is what I use). Anyway this cable proves that a unpowered cable is
possible, though I understand there is some electronics in these cables.

You might be able to use a DAK serial cable.

>  Then I found a software, based on basic, in the internet for the
> communication between pc and fb100. The software is called sector2.

I haven't found that! Could you send me a copy or upload to the files
section? Thanks! Was this code perhaps for the TRS-80 Model 100?

>  I had to adapt the software for my system and it also works for 80%.
> So, now I am able to give instructions to the fb100 and get back the
> (error) level/codes.

I have some minimal Forth code that does this too.

>  At next I will save a simple pattern from km to the disk and then I
> will try to read the data from the disk into the pc for analyse. I
> think your analyse will help me. If someone wants the layout and the
> software, I can put them here into the group.

That's what we're here for! To collect as much info and code as we can
to make future projects possible.

> 
> In the next time I will directly connect the pc to the kh930, because
> I want to save the pattern directly on the pc. Perhaps I will have the
> possibility to send pattern by eMail to friends and so an.

I'd also like someone to figure out the DAK format so that we can do
conversions to/from .PAT. Unfortunately I don't own a copy, so if
someone else wants to do that work, or donate their unused copy, I would
be grateful.


> To connect a palm or pocketpc with the km is a very good Idea. I hope
> I can help in next time, although I am not a professional.


No matter, it sounds like you're capable anyway.

Welcome on board Holger! It will be nice to have someone to share the
load with!

-- John.

On Mon, 2005-01-31 at 13:06, Holger.Schefczik@... wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> Software: I have forgotten to say, that I have got the software
> intoshape for kh930/940. I've got this software for little money.
>  The software needs a "normal" PC with Dos, no windows. The software
> works with no problems: you can create pattern, scan pictures to
> convert them into pattern, save and print and transfer them to the km
> or ppd. I couldn't testthe transfer, because at this time I had no
> cable. in the next time i will try it.
>
> Is this software helpful for the projects?

Yes I think it is extremely helpful. I could port this to the Palm or
Windows for people who don't use plain DOS. Also, it's just good as a
reference implementation for future work. Code is never ambiguous :-)

-- John.

Hi John,

I want to upload the software sector2.zip to the folder "files" (I
told you yesterday). I think it's good to create a new
folder "software" in the folder "files". So I can put sector2.zip in
this new folder?

Ok? Is this the job of the moderator or can I also create the new
folder? Sorry about this question, but these group is my first one
and therefor I have many quesitions....

-Holger