My pond is frozen and anyone who would like to skate is welcome. Sunday at 1:00
pm. 14234 w washington center rd. Look for the green sign with my numbers 14234
and turn in the driveway between the pine trees. I will have a fire going. Dan

Keith and Louise have sent you all a Christmas Card . You may be able to find it
in the new Photos link . If not , please go to Photos and look for " Keith and
Louise Xmas Card " . Oh , and Happy Holidays to all of you from me , too .
Clifford

A noted kayaking achievement was just finished last night, Freye Hoffmeister
just complete her circumnavigation of Australia in 332 days (245 paddling days).
Paul Caffyn made the first and only other circumnavigation by kayak in 1982 in
361 days (257 paddling days) this is an extraordinary achievement and kayak
adventure to padding around Australia.    
http://qajaqunderground.com/australia-2008/race-around-australia-trip-report/

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the kayakfw
group.

   File        : /Water Spout vol_1.3.1 .pdf
   Uploaded by : jones4horses <jones4horses@...>
   Description : Latest from the world of water resource education

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/kayakfw/files/Water%20Spout%20vol_1.3.1%20.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles

Regards,

jones4horses <jones4horses@...>

Hi Jim,

What kind of  cedar strip kayak did you make?  I made a Red Fish
"Return" strip kayak for myself two winters ago and one for my wife last
winter. I have wood in the garage for another one . If I was you I would
check out the River to find some open water and test out the new boat
.Send us a Photo of the boat.

As far as ice boats go I made one many years ago when I was a kid, it
was pretty simple and used the sail from an old boat, didn't have a lot
of luck with it , I love to sail and have thought about building
another one. There is lots of info on the web, I see a lot of them use
sails like the wind surfers do. Let me know how it goes if you build one
and if you really want to get some exercises on the ice don't forget
about HOCKEY............Jay




--- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, "Jim" <jward_1005@...> wrote:
>
> No more kayaking. Damn! I'm looking at 2" of ice on the lake and
wondering just what could be done with that to get exercise.
>
> Bingo! Iceboating. I finished building a 17' cedarstrip kayak a couple
weeks ago but now it's just going to sit in the garage until March or
so. Since we get a lot of ice and practically no snow around here, I'm
going to build an iceboat.
>
> Here's my question: Does anyone know any iceboaters? How about iceboat
regattas or whatever they're called? Has anyone built an iceboat?
>

Hey Ruth!  You might want to contact Eric Zell in Goshen (if that's on your
way). Not sure if he's on thisn list, ut he's on the Westmichiganpaddlers list.


--- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, ruth birch <birch_ruth@...> wrote:
>
> I signed up for Dec.27 and every other Sun. after.  If anyone want to ride
along let me know.  We can paddle in Mich. through the winter.  Ruth
>
>
>
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: Kenneth <tillwedance@...>
> Sent: Thu, December 10, 2009 4:40:02 PM
> Subject: [Paddle Michiana] Kalamazoo Kayak Pool Sessions
>
> Lee’s Adventure Sports will be sponsoring Kayak Lessons and Pool Sessions
this winter.
> Go Kayak Now! will be leading the ACA instructional program in the pool.
> The sessions  will consist of open pool, beginner kayaking lessons, rescue
and reentry
> and bracing/rolling instruction in the pool.
>
> Beginning December 13th 2009, continue into February, 2010 every other Sunday
1-3 pm.
>     At the Gable Natatorium Pool under Lawson Ice Arena on WMU Campus.
> Open Pool time is $10.00 (no lessons just access to the pool.)
> Lessons are $20.00, either Intro, Rolling, or Rolling and Bracing, Rescues,
etc
>     (Instructor to student ratio limitations, Email me when considering
kayaking lesson.)
> Equipment:Bring your own kayak - No charge.
>     Equipment rentals from Lee’s $10.00. Call ahead to arrange proper
boat, PFD and paddle fit.
>
> There will be limitations on the number of participants for each session.
> If you have interest in attending the sessions, please send an email or call
> TillWeDance@...    or   269-330-1040
> Indicate level of participation:    Beginner    Intermediate   
Advanced
> Do you want instruction help    or    just open pool time
> Dates you can attend:    Dec 13   Dec 27   Jan 10   Jan 24   Feb
7   Feb 21
> Do you  have your own equipment? 
> --
>

No more kayaking. Damn! I'm looking at 2" of ice on the lake and wondering just
what could be done with that to get exercise.

Bingo! Iceboating. I finished building a 17' cedarstrip kayak a couple weeks ago
but now it's just going to sit in the garage until March or so. Since we get a
lot of ice and practically no snow around here, I'm going to build an iceboat.

Here's my question: Does anyone know any iceboaters? How about iceboat regattas
or whatever they're called? Has anyone built an iceboat?

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/miami-dade/gables-smiami/story/1366790.html?stor\
ylink=mirelated

Grand Rapids Whitewater was given a committment from the City yesterday for
$25,000 in matching funds for engineering. Yay! Baby steps, but we're getting
there...

See the GR Press story today:
http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2009/12/downtown_developme\
nt_authority.html

A few of you might know the paddler who wrote this , take a look http://www.paddling.net/articles/story82.html

Jay

Hello Everyone.

  The big lake is angry check out the web camera's in these links.


  Check out the web cam at Ludington to see similar wave activity over the ends
of the piers there.

  <http://www.ludingtondailynews.com/webcam/harbor.php> user movable cam

  <http://www.ludingtondailynews.com/webcam/> home of this and other Ludington
cams

  or go further north to Grand Haven

  <http://www.ghsteelheaders.com/Home/WeatherWebcam/tabid/58/Default.aspx>

   click on static link also

  other misc Michigan cams

  <http://www.weathermichigan.com/miwxcams_F.htm>

  David

Thanks Steve

We didnt get much snow so may have to head to Mi if we want to ski.
Right now I have been staying home to sell Christmas trees , seems to be
the only time of year I have any luck selling them. With the cold we may
be able to get a hockey game going soon, want to come play?......Jay
--- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, "Kim" <madisinski@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hello Jay,
>
> I don't know if it reached Ft. Wayne, but the Lake Effect snow
> machine has been working overtime up here in Michigan. We have almost
a
> foot of snow on our picnic table as I look out the window. The schools
> are all closed, if that tells you anything. I know it would be a long
> trip for you guys, but winter has arrived in Berrien County for sure.
I
> hear Kalamazoo caught it real good too. If you want to ski and need
> some snow, we finally have it! Steve
>

Hello Jay,

     I don't know if it reached Ft. Wayne, but the Lake Effect snow machine has been working overtime up here in Michigan.  We have almost a foot of snow on our picnic table as I look out the window.  The schools are all closed, if that tells you anything.  I know it would be a long trip for you guys, but winter has arrived in Berrien County for sure.  I hear Kalamazoo caught it real good too.  If you want to ski and need some snow, we finally have it!           Steve

You would have to compete with these guys then http://www.greatlakesurfing.com/

Jay

--- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, "Greatwhitebear" <greatwhitebear70@...> wrote:
>
> Dry suit and a surf board. you could become the Big Kahaunna of St. Joe!
>
> --- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, S B i_2_paddle@ wrote:
> >
> > This is when you need a dry suit, or a straight jacket might be the better option!
> > Â
> > Steve B.
> >
> > --- On Wed, 12/9/09, Jay Koontz joycekoontz@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Jay Koontz joycekoontz@
> > Subject: [kayak] Big waves
> > To: kayakfw@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 2:48 PM
> >
> >
> > Â
> >
> >
> >
> > This would ne neat to see but wouldnt want to go out paddling.
> > Lake Michigan wave forcast
> > West gales to 40 knots. Gusts up to 50 knot. Snow showers likely. Waves over 20 feet.
> >
>

Dry suit and a surf board.  you could become the Big Kahaunna of St. Joe!

--- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, S B <i_2_paddle@...> wrote:
>
> This is when you need a dry suit, or a straight jacket might be the better
option!
> Â
> Steve B.
>
> --- On Wed, 12/9/09, Jay Koontz <joycekoontz@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Jay Koontz <joycekoontz@...>
> Subject: [kayak] Big waves
> To: kayakfw@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 2:48 PM
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
> This would ne neat to see but wouldnt want to go out paddling.
> Lake Michigan wave forcast
> West gales to 40 knots. Gusts up to 50 knot. Snow showers likely. Waves over
20 feet.
>

http://www.earthcam.com/usa/michigan/grandhaven/lakemichigan/

--- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, "Jay Koontz" <joycekoontz@...> wrote:
>
> This would ne neat to see but wouldnt want to go out paddling.
> Lake Michigan wave forcast
> West gales to 40 knots. Gusts up to 50 knot. Snow showers likely. Waves over
20 feet.
>

This would ne neat to see but wouldnt want to go out paddling.
Lake Michigan wave forcast
West gales to 40 knots. Gusts up to 50 knot. Snow showers likely. Waves over 20
feet.

Yes, once the air gets below 40, the cotton goes and the woolies and polypro
come out.

As far as cold water swims, I have considerable experience there. I was a polar
bear swimmer in college.  I have taken a couple of early spring swims paddling
(ask Scrapper John about my infamous late march dam run on the Coldwater!), and
won numerous bets for staying in Lake Michigan for 20 mins in April.  With all
this added insulation (for those who don't know me, I am 6' and weigh in at well
over 300lbs), I am good for 25-30 mins in below 40 water before I begin to lose
function.

While virtually all the streams down here (with two notable exceptions) are
shallow enough you are never more than about a minutes swim from knee deep
water, my real fear is being unable to extract myself on rivers like the Pere
Marquette and Pine, where steep slippery banks and ample current may force
additional time in the water to find a suitable extraction point.

My other big fear is not being able to to get up on the ice on rivers like the
St. Joe and Kankakee. Thats where the floatation suit demo really impressed me.

Sorry that was so long winded.  I just wanted you to know there was a method to
my madness.

gwb



--- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Starring" <rlstarr@...> wrote:
>
> Don't get me wrong. Your choice is an improvement, and will serve you well if
you don't swim.  But nothing beats a dry suit if you swim. Next choice is a dry
top/dry pants combo, then a wetsuit, then floatation coat and pants.
>
> If you go with the coat and pants, at least get a couple good synthetic layers
to wear under it. NRS Hydroskin is also a good choice as one layer (stretchy,
warm, and comfy). Those sweatshirts and sweatpants I keep seeing you wear...
well, I fear for you my friend; especially this time of year. I've done the 3-4
minute, full-immersion, late fall swim in cotton before. Believe me, you'll
remember it for a looooong time (even if you don't get close to true
hypothermia)and it will convince and convert you.
>
> Personally, I hate wetsuits. They stink like nothing else on this earth and
reward you with unbelievable fungal rashes if you don't religiously rinse them
after each use. Added to that is the discomfort of wearing them, and the
frustration of getting in and out of them. But they work in cold water (and
provide a lot of floatation - probably as much or more than a PFD).
>
> That's my 7.5 cents anyway. Ultimately, there's always a tradeoff and we each
have to decide what suits our needs best.
>
> --- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, "Greatwhitebear" <greatwhitebear70@> wrote:
> >
> > I  have been wavering over purchase of wet suit.  After viewing the videos,
I have definitely decided against.  I have decided money would be much better
off put towards Sterns or Mustang flotation coat and pants.
> >
>

There's a pretty good thread on this on Paddling.net. Go to the questions
discussion group and look for the thread on dry suit justification (canoe). 
Lots of rants, but also lots of good points.  G'luck to ya!

--- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Starring" <rlstarr@...> wrote:
>
> Don't get me wrong. Your choice is an improvement, and will serve you well if
you don't swim.  But nothing beats a dry suit if you swim. Next choice is a dry
top/dry pants combo, then a wetsuit, then floatation coat and pants.
>
> If you go with the coat and pants, at least get a couple good synthetic layers
to wear under it. NRS Hydroskin is also a good choice as one layer (stretchy,
warm, and comfy). Those sweatshirts and sweatpants I keep seeing you wear...
well, I fear for you my friend; especially this time of year. I've done the 3-4
minute, full-immersion, late fall swim in cotton before. Believe me, you'll
remember it for a looooong time (even if you don't get close to true
hypothermia)and it will convince and convert you.
>
> Personally, I hate wetsuits. They stink like nothing else on this earth and
reward you with unbelievable fungal rashes if you don't religiously rinse them
after each use. Added to that is the discomfort of wearing them, and the
frustration of getting in and out of them. But they work in cold water (and
provide a lot of floatation - probably as much or more than a PFD).
>
> That's my 7.5 cents anyway. Ultimately, there's always a tradeoff and we each
have to decide what suits our needs best.
>
> --- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, "Greatwhitebear" <greatwhitebear70@> wrote:
> >
> > I  have been wavering over purchase of wet suit.  After viewing the videos,
I have definitely decided against.  I have decided money would be much better
off put towards Sterns or Mustang flotation coat and pants.
> >
>

Don't get me wrong. Your choice is an improvement, and will serve you well if
you don't swim.  But nothing beats a dry suit if you swim. Next choice is a dry
top/dry pants combo, then a wetsuit, then floatation coat and pants.

If you go with the coat and pants, at least get a couple good synthetic layers
to wear under it. NRS Hydroskin is also a good choice as one layer (stretchy,
warm, and comfy). Those sweatshirts and sweatpants I keep seeing you wear...
well, I fear for you my friend; especially this time of year. I've done the 3-4
minute, full-immersion, late fall swim in cotton before. Believe me, you'll
remember it for a looooong time (even if you don't get close to true
hypothermia)and it will convince and convert you.

Personally, I hate wetsuits. They stink like nothing else on this earth and
reward you with unbelievable fungal rashes if you don't religiously rinse them
after each use. Added to that is the discomfort of wearing them, and the
frustration of getting in and out of them. But they work in cold water (and
provide a lot of floatation - probably as much or more than a PFD).

That's my 7.5 cents anyway. Ultimately, there's always a tradeoff and we each
have to decide what suits our needs best.

--- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, "Greatwhitebear" <greatwhitebear70@...> wrote:
>
> I  have been wavering over purchase of wet suit.  After viewing the videos, I
have definitely decided against.  I have decided money would be much better off
put towards Sterns or Mustang flotation coat and pants.
>

I have to agree with Roger and think the wet suit would be a little
better but must say either one would be much better than just wearing
winter cloths. A dry suit would  be much better and speaking from
experience its great to get out of the water and not even be wet except
for your hands and head. I like to use one of the neoprene beanies to
keep my head warm even if you get it wet. The #1 thing to wear
Especially in the winter is your PFD, it can extend you survival time a
lot in cold water,.......Jay

PS. how much snow you got up there Roger?



--- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, "Roger Starring" <rlstarr@...> wrote:
>
> I don't think you'll like that decision as much if you go swimming...
>
> --- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, "Greatwhitebear" greatwhitebear70@
wrote:
> >
> > I have been wavering over purchase of wet suit. After viewing the
videos, I have definitely decided against. I have decided money would be
much better off put towards Sterns or Mustang flotation coat and pants.
> >
> > --- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, Steven Horney <soarer_270@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Definitely some good data to review. After coming back from an
8 mile run yesterday, my kayak and my gear (including my pfd and
drysuit) were covered in ice. The water is seriously cold (not to
mention the sub-freezing air temps).  A dry suit or wet suit is
now mandatory, along with a good wool base layer (in a dry
suit), warm foot wear (I like wool socks in knee-high neophrene river
boots), good neophrene gloves or pogies/mambas, and a warm hat that
won't pull the heat out of your head if it gets wet. I like to wear
my rabbit fur hat - ugly as can be, but it stays warm even when I'm
wet. Don't wear cotton clothing! It won't hold your heat
if it gets wet. I've found it's good to have a hot beverage in a
thermos awaiting your return, some high energy food, as well as some
light gloves and a warm hat to put on to keep your hands and
head warm when you're placing your boat on top of the car and
such. I stay pretty warm paddling; it's
> > > after I'm done and the sweat starts to cool that I tend to get a
little cold.
> > >
> > > By the way, if you need SmartWool base layers, river boots, or
similar now would be the time to head to Earth Adventures. They're
currently giving 10% off pretty much everything in the store, and 15%
off SmartWool.Â
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: canoe_tmb <canoe_tmb@>
> > > To: kayakfw@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Sun, December 6, 2009 7:04:06 PM
> > > Subject: [kayakfw] Re: Cold Water Survival. Serious stuff.
> > >
> > > Â
> > > Don,thanks again for the new link, Its good review cold water
effects for this time of year if were on the water. Three weeks ago a
Kayaker was rescued while duck hunting in the back bay of Hamilton Lake
near Angola. He capsized and was unable to get back in the kayak and was
trying to get to swim to shore; he was hypothermic and exhausted
according to the local marina pontoon boat that pulled him and his kayak
out of the lake. They also said the kayaker did some how manage to keep
his shot gun from sinking to the bottom of the lake. He did have on a
PFD. --- In kayakfw@yahoogroups .com, "Don" <havtubawiltravel@ ...>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Tadd, the old link doesn't work any more, so here's a site with
that video you mentioned and two more by the same researcher.
> > > > Everybody: If you plan to paddle any time between now and, say,
Easter or later around here, you need to watch at least the first, and
preferably all three.
> > > > http://www.yukonman.com/cold_water.asp
> > > >
> > > > Respectfully submitted,
> > > > D.P. Shively, esq.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

I don't think you'll like that decision as much if you go swimming...

--- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, "Greatwhitebear" <greatwhitebear70@...> wrote:
>
> I  have been wavering over purchase of wet suit.  After viewing the videos, I
have definitely decided against.  I have decided money would be much better off
put towards Sterns or Mustang flotation coat and pants.
>
> --- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, Steven Horney <soarer_270@> wrote:
> >
> > Definitely some good data to review.  After coming back from an 8 mile run
yesterday, my kayak and my gear (including my pfd and drysuit) were covered in
ice.  The water is seriously cold (not to mention the sub-freezing air temps).Â
 A dry suit or wet suit is now mandatory, along with a good wool base layerÂ
(in a dry suit), warm foot wear (I like wool socks in knee-high neophrene river
boots), good neophrene gloves or pogies/mambas, and a warm hat that won't pull
the heat out of your head if it gets wet.  I like to wear my rabbit fur hat -
ugly as can be, but it stays warm even when I'm wet.  Don't wear cotton
clothing!  It won't hold your heat if it gets wet.  I've found it's good to
have a hot beverage in a thermos awaiting your return, some high energy food,
as well as some light gloves and a warm hat to put on to keep your hands and
head warm when you're placing your boat on top of the car and such.  I stay
pretty warm paddling; it's
> >  after I'm done and the sweat starts to cool that I tend to get a little
cold.
> >
> > By the way, if you need SmartWool base layers, river boots, or similar now
would be the time to head to Earth Adventures.  They're currently giving 10%
off pretty much everything in the store, and 15% off SmartWool.Â
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: canoe_tmb <canoe_tmb@>
> > To: kayakfw@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sun, December 6, 2009 7:04:06 PM
> > Subject: [kayakfw] Re: Cold Water Survival. Serious stuff.
> >
> > Â
> > Don,thanks again for the new link, Its good review cold water effects for
this time of year if were on the water. Three weeks ago a Kayaker was rescued
while duck hunting in the back bay of Hamilton Lake near Angola. He capsized and
was unable to get back in the kayak and was trying to get to swim to shore; he
was hypothermic and exhausted according to the local marina pontoon boat that
pulled him and his kayak out of the lake. They also said the kayaker did some
how manage to keep his shot gun from sinking to the bottom of the lake. He did
have on a PFD. --- In kayakfw@yahoogroups .com, "Don" <havtubawiltravel@ ...>
wrote:
> > >
> > > Tadd, the old link doesn't work any more, so here's a site with that video
you mentioned and two more by the same researcher.
> > > Everybody: If you plan to paddle any time between now and, say, Easter or
later around here, you need to watch at least the first, and preferably all
three.
> > > http://www.yukonman.com/cold_water.asp
> > >
> > > Respectfully submitted,
> > > D.P. Shively, esq.
> > >
> >
>

I  have been wavering over purchase of wet suit.  After viewing the videos, I
have definitely decided against.  I have decided money would be much better off
put towards Sterns or Mustang flotation coat and pants.

--- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, Steven Horney <soarer_270@...> wrote:
>
> Definitely some good data to review.  After coming back from an 8 mile run
yesterday, my kayak and my gear (including my pfd and drysuit) were covered in
ice.  The water is seriously cold (not to mention the sub-freezing air temps).Â
 A dry suit or wet suit is now mandatory, along with a good wool base layerÂ
(in a dry suit), warm foot wear (I like wool socks in knee-high neophrene river
boots), good neophrene gloves or pogies/mambas, and a warm hat that won't pull
the heat out of your head if it gets wet.  I like to wear my rabbit fur hat -
ugly as can be, but it stays warm even when I'm wet.  Don't wear cotton
clothing!  It won't hold your heat if it gets wet.  I've found it's good to
have a hot beverage in a thermos awaiting your return, some high energy food,
as well as some light gloves and a warm hat to put on to keep your hands and
head warm when you're placing your boat on top of the car and such.  I stay
pretty warm paddling; it's
>  after I'm done and the sweat starts to cool that I tend to get a little cold.
>
> By the way, if you need SmartWool base layers, river boots, or similar now
would be the time to head to Earth Adventures.  They're currently giving 10%
off pretty much everything in the store, and 15% off SmartWool.Â
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: canoe_tmb <canoe_tmb@...>
> To: kayakfw@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, December 6, 2009 7:04:06 PM
> Subject: [kayakfw] Re: Cold Water Survival. Serious stuff.
>
> Â
> Don,thanks again for the new link, Its good review cold water effects for this
time of year if were on the water. Three weeks ago a Kayaker was rescued while
duck hunting in the back bay of Hamilton Lake near Angola. He capsized and was
unable to get back in the kayak and was trying to get to swim to shore; he was
hypothermic and exhausted according to the local marina pontoon boat that pulled
him and his kayak out of the lake. They also said the kayaker did some how
manage to keep his shot gun from sinking to the bottom of the lake. He did have
on a PFD. --- In kayakfw@yahoogroups .com, "Don" <havtubawiltravel@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > Tadd, the old link doesn't work any more, so here's a site with that video
you mentioned and two more by the same researcher.
> > Everybody: If you plan to paddle any time between now and, say, Easter or
later around here, you need to watch at least the first, and preferably all
three.
> > http://www.yukonman.com/cold_water.asp
> >
> > Respectfully submitted,
> > D.P. Shively, esq.
> >
>

Don,thanks again for the new link, Its  good review cold water effects for this
time of year if were on the water.    Three weeks ago a Kayaker was rescued
while duck hunting in the back bay of Hamilton Lake near Angola.   He capsized
and was unable to get back in the kayak and was trying to get to swim to shore;
he was hypothermic and exhausted according to the local marina pontoon boat that
pulled him and his  kayak out of the lake.  They also said the kayaker did some
how manage to keep his shot gun from sinking to the bottom of the lake.  He did
have on a PFD.  --- In kayakfw@yahoogroups.com, "Don" <havtubawiltravel@...>
wrote:
>
> Tadd, the old link doesn't work any more, so here's a site with that video you
mentioned and two more by the same researcher.
> Everybody:  If you plan to paddle any time between now and, say, Easter or
later around here, you need to watch at least the first, and preferably all
three.
> http://www.yukonman.com/cold_water.asp
>
> Respectfully submitted,
> D.P. Shively, esq.
>