Hey All,
  Happy April Fool's!! We were all supposed to read "A Hunger Artist" for today
and I hope everyone did. I assume you are all waiting for me to make the first
post. So here is one take on the story that I came up with. I am sure there will
be many others.

Okay, I am going to start with the religious interpretation, which was the first
one that struck me, so that's the one you all get.  Fasting is of course, a
religious practice. I believe it is supposed to make you closer to God. A little
sacrifice to acknowledge his bigger one? (At least for Christianity, anyway)
But, that is not the Artist's perceived intention and there is no mention of God
in the story. Everyone else believes the artist is there for the money, trying
to get his fifteen minutes of fame as it were but in reality i think he is
searching for a oneness with himself and the world. He wants people to
understand him and love him and fasting is the only way he knows how to get them
to do that. The first time we see him, he is fasting for forty days, another
Biblical refrence for Lent, the time of fasting and giving up things that we
usually like. Now I don't know about any of you but most people I know give up
some kind of food for Lent. Also, the forty days thing refers to Noah and the
Ark. God trying to rid the world of evil with forty days and nights of rain.
Maybe the hunger artist is trying to rid himself of what he sees as humanities
evils over those forty days. Maybe it was just a convienient number. Personally,
I like the conection to Lent better, it is a bit less of a stretch. But, in the
end he is forgotton, perhaps the way many people forget about their religion in
favor of the newer more intersting things we have found in science and the world
(represented by the panther?) or the way we give up on Lent fasting about
halfway through it? He seems to be on a bit of a religious quest as well, trying
to fast better than anyone ever has and make a name for himself, make people
like him, make himself be seen.

What do you all make of his dying words, perhaps the greatest line in the entire
story, "because I couldn't find the food I liked. If I had found it, believe me,
I should have made no fuss and stuffed myself like you or anyone else" ?
  I think it is about him looking for something he can't find. It isn't about
food. Not eating is what he uses to make him feel like he is in control. I think
he really just wants to be noticed and respected and loved. No one trusts that
he doesn't eat, no one really seems to treat him like a human being. He is
locked in a cage like an animal and no one cares about what he wants or what he
thinks. The impresario makes up answers for him, the girls holding him up cry
becuse he seems scary, the circus and the spectators at it completly forget
about him. I think all he wants it to be noticed in this sea of people. Which
brings up the larger idea that all anyone wants is to be noticed in this sea of
people. As an amatuer writer I can kind of get where he is coming from, all we
want is for someone to recognize our art for what it is. To really get what we
are trying to do. Sometimes the words get in the way, the acts get in the way of
something that we can't show through words or acts but it is the only way we
have to convey it and we want people to really see what we are trying to do, not
just what we are doing.

Wow, that took a lot of writing. And, I'm not even sure I made sense, but that
is one take on Kafka' Artist. I'm sure I could come up with more but I want to
see what everybody else thinks. Come on Kids let's get a dialogue going!
Somebody write something and we all respond with our own thoughts. And don't be
afraid of not making sense or throwing anything weird out there (although stuff
like Kafka's an alien will not be taken seriously by me;))we are all just in
this for the fun of it. Can't wait to start talking. Oh, and write your ideas
for the next story too. Maybe In the Penal Colony, I always like that one or the
tried and true Metamorphosis? Anyone else got any ideas Let us know. I don't
want to be the only one picking stuff for us to read, we all should be enjoying
this. Hope to hear from you all, my fellow Kafka lovers,
                                 Laura



"I want to live, I want to experience the universe, and I want to eat pie." -
Urgo

Hey Laura, and anyone else out in Kafkaland!
I read the piece, and thought about it.  I decided I would also take an
interpretation of it upon first reading, and run with it.  I like the religious
implications, Laura, but I took another approach.  How is this:
The hunger artist is someone we all know.  He is the one in the friendship that
must ALWAYS be the victim.  There is never going to be a day when the hunger
artist is truly happy.  He will never find the food that he likes.  (I see the
other friends who allow a hunger artist to continue on this path, as the
onlookers who will watch and fuel his need to be more of a victim.)  The forty
days, while a very relevant religious term, could also apply to the breaking
point in the friendship when one person must confront the hunger artist (which I
think is a fitting name for those who choose to make victimization their art
form) and let him or her know that the jig is up.
Just another interpretation.  It helped me mainly because I'm so terrifyed of
being that person who is always needing to be the weaker friend who needs
consolation.  I dunno.  Just a thought.
As a little response to your interpreatation Laura, I would like to say that one
of my favorite readings in the Catholic liturgy is the one on Ash Wednesday.  It
discusses how we Catholics must not fast visibly.  We must not be overt with our
religious practices, because they are only important to US.  I think this is a
very relevant idea with the hunger artist since he is not doing it for himself. 
He is the phaisee who paints his face white while fasting...almost literally.  I
enjoy that interpretation, and look forward to re-reading it with that in mind.
Pakey
PS I have the title of that other short piece.  It is actually part of his VERY
short works.  Shouldn't take too long to look at.  Passers-by.  In fact, I'm
just going to include it here and anyone who wants to can look it over.
Passers-by
When you go walking by night up a street and a man, visible a long way off - for
the street mounts uphill and there is a full moon - comes running toward you,
well, you don't catch hold of him, not even if he is a feeble and ragged
creature, not even if someone chases yelling at his heels, but you let him run
on.
   For it is night, and you can't help it if the street goes uphill before you in
the moonlight, and besides, these two have maybe started that chase to amuse
themselves, or perhaps they are both chasing a third, perhaps the first is an
innocent man and the second wants to murder him and you would become an
accessory, perhaps they don't know anything about eachother and are merely
running home to bed, perhaps they are night birds, perhaps the first man is
armed.
   And anyhow, haven't you the right to be tired, haven't you been drinking a lot
of wine?  You're thankful that the second man is now long out of sight.
Translated by Willa and Edwin Muir
There ya go.  If anyone wants to talk about it, it is by far my favorite Kafka,
and I'd love to hear someone else's opinion.



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Here is a brief summation of one interpretation I ran across.
It is not my words, but an edit that I put together to throw a little light
on the subject.

"The Hunger Artist" has been interpreted by some as a parable of the
author's spiritual quest as well as of his realtionship with the insenstive
world around him; his main theme being: alienation.

He suffers in his cage, the symbol of his lack of freedom, but he prefers to
starve for the eventual attainment of spiritual freedom rather than accept
any of the pseudo-salvations of the realm of the "butchers"- or the world
around him. (It is interesting to note that Kafka was a life-long
vegetarian, the very opposite of a butcher.) He pits two equally justified
forces against each other: the yearning for spiritual nourishment of the
hunger artist against the elemental affirmation of life by the many. One
force pushing in the direction of spiritualization and beyond; the other one
pulling back toward the animalistic sphere.

In his diary, Kafka referred to these opposing forces as "the assualt from
above" and the one "from below". He explained his desire to escape from the
world in terms of  "the assualt from above". All of Kafka's stories are
permeated and deal with this opposition. The hero's loathing for regular
food and his desire to fast to unprecedented perfection are the workings of
this force and pull him from earthly life. The wild animals' and the
panther's taking his place represent life-affirming forces. The audience
moves between the two opposing forces but it doesn't have the capability of
either the hunger artist or the panther. Their fate is mere passivity.

The sum total of truth (his art) and life are the same at all times, but one
goes on at the expense of the other. By living, man gets in his own way as
regards the fulfillment of his art, his search for truth. It is true that
NOT eating eventually takes the hunger artist's physical life, but from the
debris of this life there flows a new, spiritualized life unknown to others.
If the artist wants to find his truth, he must destroy himself. Suffering is
the only possible way for man to redeem his true self (sounds like
Dostovesky!). It is both the perogative and curse of the hunger artist (and
Kafka, vis a vis his writing) that he is driven to follow this path to its
inevitable conclusion.

marcusS
** How about "A Country Doctor" (but only after this discussion has taken
it's full course).

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Hanley" <JPHanley2001@...>
To: <kafka-list@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:38 PM
Subject: [kafka-list] A Hunger Artist


>
> Hey Laura, and anyone else out in Kafkaland!
> I read the piece, and thought about it.  I decided I would also take an
interpretation of it upon first reading, and run with it.  I like the
religious implications, Laura, but I took another approach.  How is this:
> The hunger artist is someone we all know.  He is the one in the friendship
that must ALWAYS be the victim.  There is never going to be a day when the
hunger artist is truly happy.  He will never find the food that he likes.
(I see the other friends who allow a hunger artist to continue on this path,
as the onlookers who will watch and fuel his need to be more of a victim.)
The forty days, while a very relevant religious term, could also apply to
the breaking point in the friendship when one person must confront the
hunger artist (which I think is a fitting name for those who choose to make
victimization their art form) and let him or her know that the jig is up.
> Just another interpretation.  It helped me mainly because I'm so terrifyed
of being that person who is always needing to be the weaker friend who needs
consolation.  I dunno.  Just a thought.
> As a little response to your interpreatation Laura, I would like to say
that one of my favorite readings in the Catholic liturgy is the one on Ash
Wednesday.  It discusses how we Catholics must not fast visibly.  We must
not be overt with our religious practices, because they are only important
to US.  I think this is a very relevant idea with the hunger artist since he
is not doing it for himself.  He is the phaisee who paints his face white
while fasting...almost literally.  I enjoy that interpretation, and look
forward to re-reading it with that in mind.
> Pakey
> PS I have the title of that other short piece.  It is actually part of his
VERY short works.  Shouldn't take too long to look at.  Passers-by.  In
fact, I'm just going to include it here and anyone who wants to can look it
over.
> Passers-by
> When you go walking by night up a street and a man, visible a long way
off - for the street mounts uphill and there is a full moon - comes running
toward you, well, you don't catch hold of him, not even if he is a feeble
and ragged creature, not even if someone chases yelling at his heels, but
you let him run on.
>   For it is night, and you can't help it if the street goes uphill before
you in the moonlight, and besides, these two have maybe started that chase
to amuse themselves, or perhaps they are both chasing a third, perhaps the
first is an innocent man and the second wants to murder him and you would
become an accessory, perhaps they don't know anything about eachother and
are merely running home to bed, perhaps they are night birds, perhaps the
first man is armed.
>   And anyhow, haven't you the right to be tired, haven't you been drinking
a lot of wine?  You're thankful that the second man is now long out of
sight.
> Translated by Willa and Edwin Muir
> There ya go.  If anyone wants to talk about it, it is by far my favorite
Kafka, and I'd love to hear someone else's opinion.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> kafka-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

Mark writes:

"If the artist wants to find his truth, he must destroy himself.
Suffering is
the only possible way for man to redeem his true self (sounds like
Dostovesky!). It is both the perogative and curse of the hunger artist
(and
Kafka, vis a vis his writing) that he is driven to follow this path to
its
inevitable conclusion."

I think that this is true, but I want to highlight that I think that Kafka
was deeply conflicted about this attitude.

This is basically a restatement of some of what James says, but anyway:

Suffering doesn't automatically lead to art. In fact, the hunger artist is
a pathetic creature---not because he ends up consuming himself, or because
the crowds eventually ignore him, but because the reason that he's fasting
is because he never really found anything that he wanted to eat. In other
words, it's not so much a matter of artistic choice, but rather a
fetishization of his condition (the condition of not being able to eat).

~~William

BTW, "A Country Doctor" is my favorite Kafka story. I'd be totally up for
discussing it after this discussion trickles out.




--- kafka-list@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> kafka-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There are 2 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. A Hunger Artist
>            From: James Hanley <JPHanley2001@...>
>       2. Re: A Hunger Artist
>            From: "Mark Ponce" <marcusSP@...>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:38:43 -0800 (PST)
>    From: James Hanley <JPHanley2001@...>
> Subject: A Hunger Artist
>
>
> Hey Laura, and anyone else out in Kafkaland!
> I read the piece, and thought about it.  I decided I would also take an
> interpretation of it upon first reading, and run with it.  I like the
> religious implications, Laura, but I took another approach.  How is
> this:
> The hunger artist is someone we all know.  He is the one in the
> friendship that must ALWAYS be the victim.  There is never going to be a
> day when the hunger artist is truly happy.  He will never find the food
> that he likes.  (I see the other friends who allow a hunger artist to
> continue on this path, as the onlookers who will watch and fuel his need
> to be more of a victim.)  The forty days, while a very relevant
> religious term, could also apply to the breaking point in the friendship
> when one person must confront the hunger artist (which I think is a
> fitting name for those who choose to make victimization their art form)
> and let him or her know that the jig is up.
> Just another interpretation.  It helped me mainly because I'm so
> terrifyed of being that person who is always needing to be the weaker
> friend who needs consolation.  I dunno.  Just a thought.
> As a little response to your interpreatation Laura, I would like to say
> that one of my favorite readings in the Catholic liturgy is the one on
> Ash Wednesday.  It discusses how we Catholics must not fast visibly.  We
> must not be overt with our religious practices, because they are only
> important to US.  I think this is a very relevant idea with the hunger
> artist since he is not doing it for himself.  He is the phaisee who
> paints his face white while fasting...almost literally.  I enjoy that
> interpretation, and look forward to re-reading it with that in mind.
> Pakey
> PS I have the title of that other short piece.  It is actually part of
> his VERY short works.  Shouldn't take too long to look at.  Passers-by.
> In fact, I'm just going to include it here and anyone who wants to can
> look it over.
> Passers-by
> When you go walking by night up a street and a man, visible a long way
> off - for the street mounts uphill and there is a full moon - comes
> running toward you, well, you don't catch hold of him, not even if he is
> a feeble and ragged creature, not even if someone chases yelling at his
> heels, but you let him run on.
>   For it is night, and you can't help it if the street goes uphill
> before you in the moonlight, and besides, these two have maybe started
> that chase to amuse themselves, or perhaps they are both chasing a
> third, perhaps the first is an innocent man and the second wants to
> murder him and you would become an accessory, perhaps they don't know
> anything about eachother and are merely running home to bed, perhaps
> they are night birds, perhaps the first man is armed.
>   And anyhow, haven't you the right to be tired, haven't you been
> drinking a lot of wine?  You're thankful that the second man is now long
> out of sight.
> Translated by Willa and Edwin Muir
> There ya go.  If anyone wants to talk about it, it is by far my favorite
> Kafka, and I'd love to hear someone else's opinion.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 00:49:29 -0500
>    From: "Mark Ponce" <marcusSP@...>
> Subject: Re: A Hunger Artist
>
> Here is a brief summation of one interpretation I ran across.
> It is not my words, but an edit that I put together to throw a little
> light
> on the subject.
>
> "The Hunger Artist" has been interpreted by some as a parable of the
> author's spiritual quest as well as of his realtionship with the
> insenstive
> world around him; his main theme being: alienation.
>
> He suffers in his cage, the symbol of his lack of freedom, but he
> prefers to
> starve for the eventual attainment of spiritual freedom rather than
> accept
> any of the pseudo-salvations of the realm of the "butchers"- or the
> world
> around him. (It is interesting to note that Kafka was a life-long
> vegetarian, the very opposite of a butcher.) He pits two equally
> justified
> forces against each other: the yearning for spiritual nourishment of the
> hunger artist against the elemental affirmation of life by the many. One
> force pushing in the direction of spiritualization and beyond; the other
> one
> pulling back toward the animalistic sphere.
>
> In his diary, Kafka referred to these opposing forces as "the assualt
> from
> above" and the one "from below". He explained his desire to escape from
> the
> world in terms of  "the assualt from above". All of Kafka's stories are
> permeated and deal with this opposition. The hero's loathing for regular
> food and his desire to fast to unprecedented perfection are the workings
> of
> this force and pull him from earthly life. The wild animals' and the
> panther's taking his place represent life-affirming forces. The audience
> moves between the two opposing forces but it doesn't have the capability
> of
> either the hunger artist or the panther. Their fate is mere passivity.
>
> The sum total of truth (his art) and life are the same at all times, but
> one
> goes on at the expense of the other. By living, man gets in his own way
> as
> regards the fulfillment of his art, his search for truth. It is true
> that
> NOT eating eventually takes the hunger artist's physical life, but from
> the
> debris of this life there flows a new, spiritualized life unknown to
> others.
> If the artist wants to find his truth, he must destroy himself.
> Suffering is
> the only possible way for man to redeem his true self (sounds like
> Dostovesky!). It is both the perogative and curse of the hunger artist
> (and
> Kafka, vis a vis his writing) that he is driven to follow this path to
> its
> inevitable conclusion.
>
> marcusS
> ** How about "A Country Doctor" (but only after this discussion has
> taken
> it's full course).
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Hanley" <JPHanley2001@...>
> To: <kafka-list@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:38 PM
> Subject: [kafka-list] A Hunger Artist
>
>
> >
> > Hey Laura, and anyone else out in Kafkaland!
> > I read the piece, and thought about it.  I decided I would also take
> an
> interpretation of it upon first reading, and run with it.  I like the
> religious implications, Laura, but I took another approach.  How is
> this:
> > The hunger artist is someone we all know.  He is the one in the
> friendship
> that must ALWAYS be the victim.  There is never going to be a day when
> the
> hunger artist is truly happy.  He will never find the food that he
> likes.
> (I see the other friends who allow a hunger artist to continue on this
> path,
> as the onlookers who will watch and fuel his need to be more of a
> victim.)
> The forty days, while a very relevant religious term, could also apply
> to
> the breaking point in the friendship when one person must confront the
> hunger artist (which I think is a fitting name for those who choose to
> make
> victimization their art form) and let him or her know that the jig is
> up.
> > Just another interpretation.  It helped me mainly because I'm so
> terrifyed
> of being that person who is always needing to be the weaker friend who
> needs
> consolation.  I dunno.  Just a thought.
> > As a little response to your interpreatation Laura, I would like to
> say
> that one of my favorite readings in the Catholic liturgy is the one on
> Ash
> Wednesday.  It discusses how we Catholics must not fast visibly.  We
> must
> not be overt with our religious practices, because they are only
> important
> to US.  I think this is a very relevant idea with the hunger artist
> since he
> is not doing it for himself.  He is the phaisee who paints his face
> white
> while fasting...almost literally.  I enjoy that interpretation, and look
> forward to re-reading it with that in mind.
> > Pakey
> > PS I have the title of that other short piece.  It is actually part of
> his
> VERY short works.  Shouldn't take too long to look at.  Passers-by.  In
> fact, I'm just going to include it here and anyone who wants to can look
> it
> over.
> > Passers-by
> > When you go walking by night up a street and a man, visible a long way
> off - for the street mounts uphill and there is a full moon - comes
> running
> toward you, well, you don't catch hold of him, not even if he is a
> feeble
> and ragged creature, not even if someone chases yelling at his heels,
> but
> you let him run on.
> >   For it is night, and you can't help it if the street goes uphill
> before
> you in the moonlight, and besides, these two have maybe started that
> chase
> to amuse themselves, or perhaps they are both chasing a third, perhaps
> the
> first is an innocent man and the second wants to murder him and you
> would
> become an accessory, perhaps they don't know anything about eachother
> and
> are merely running home to bed, perhaps they are night birds, perhaps
> the
> first man is armed.
> >   And anyhow, haven't you the right to be tired, haven't you been
> drinking
> a lot of wine?  You're thankful that the second man is now long out of
> sight.
> > Translated by Willa and Edwin Muir
> > There ya go.  If anyone wants to talk about it, it is by far my
> favorite
> Kafka, and I'd love to hear someone else's opinion.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > kafka-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com

wow, i really like the fact that people are using this list for what
it was intended ...finally.  anyway, here's a few more thoguhts to
add to the pile:

i have always tended to shy away from leaning religious symbolism in
kafka's work, especially christian-centric symbolism, because i
believe that kafka was jewish.  for this fact, i really don't know if
kafka would have even had any idea what lent was.  i know teh number
forty appears elsewhere in religious texts, and for that reason he
may have come across in it that context, but i really don't know.
i'm not trying to prove religious-related theories wrong, but iw
anted to point out that i don't think kafak was christian.

however, one thing someone mentioned (and i apologize for not being
able to directly quote and identify the person, but the email program
i use is a pain in the butt) reminded me of a connection between
kafka and religion.  someone was talking about their favorite lentian
reading, that of not visibly fasting.  i think that is an interesting
application to the hunger artist, but can even more readily b applied
to kafka's story "conversation with the supplicant."  if you've never
read that, check it out, and you might be surprised at how kafka
pretty much exactly spells out that that reading talks about.

but now, onto "the hunger artist" itself.  since i steer clear of
religious references, i have always viewed the story as more of a
commentary on society.  with the artist himself in a cage, that has
always meant to me that he is isolating himself from society.  the
reason for this is that he cannot stand society, and he alikewise
cannot find anything "nourishing" there for him.  of course i don't
mean food literally, but more of a so-called nourishment for his
spirit, or soul, if you like.  perhaps even his intellect.  society
(perhaps in kafka's day, but very definitly in present-day america
[in my opinion, anyway]), is fileld with people with short attention
spans, who really don't care one bit about truth, authenticity or
integrity, but simply flow from one fad to the next glitzy hot topic
as easiyl as flipping channel on a television.  actually, i think
integrity is th exact word i'm looking for.  in the story, the hunger
artist epitomizes integrity - doing one thing as well a possible; and
to the artist, that one thing (fasting) is indeed well worth doing.
it is, in his mind, a noble pursuit, his "art," and meant (to me) to
represent all forms or purity.

since society, however, has no capacity for this integrity - either
to endevour to acheive it themselves, or to treat the occurance of it
as anything more than a passing novelty - the hunger artist knows he
and his interest - as well very possible the platonic form
of "Integrity" itself - are destined to shrivel up and die, while the
society around him simpley vascilates between whatever the
latest "next big things" are.

perhaps this is where donald rumsfeld dug up the latest catch-
phrase "shock and awe."  people today, and the audience in the sotry,
seem to like to be dazzled an amazed, and this is also they are able
to respond to.  the really sad part is that i think this, like so
many thing, is a devestating downard spiral that keeps growing on
itself.  because, the "next big thing" has to be bigger than the
thing before it to grab up the attention of the mindless society,
which necessarily means that the following big thing must be even
bigger, etc., and on and on until we are so blinded and in such a
state of "shock and awe" that we are totally unable to think about or
focus on the actual details of what we are looking at.

instead of thinking about what it would take to fast, and if it is
possible, the people in the story just automatically assume it can't
be done by the artist (because, i suspect, they know that they
themselves are not capable of it), as so immediately doubt it.  in
this way, they are trying to bring him down to their level.  even by
offering him food, they are offering their acceptance to the artist.
they are saying "we will accept you into our soceity, just come out
of your cage, be one of us, be like us; put aside your lofty ideals
that the rest of us cannot acheive.  instead, be like us and stop
point out all these things that make us uncomfortable."
uncomfortable because of their guilt it arises in people, for not
being willing to put for the effort to acheive something so
worthwhile, for ti si far easier to just sit back and watch the
flickering images and bright pretty colors we are shown.  the hunger
artist, though, beign a true artist, is unabel to compromise himself
and his art, and instead of acquiesing to the demands of society to
dumb himself down to their level, chose to suffer with his dying art
and fade away with it.

so, that was much longer than i had hoped.  i am sorry about that.
smaller posts are so much easier to read and digest, but, i guess,
once i get going on my ranting diatribes, i forget to rein myself
in.  but anyway, that's what i think - do with it what you will.

and by the way, i'm not trying to make any kind of political
statement, either.  i'm just using conveinient contemporary examples
to illustrate my point.  i hope everyone is well, and keep the
discussion going.  take care.

brian

ps- in regards for the next story, i would vote against "a country
doctor." no matter how many times i read it, i still cannot figure
out to any degree what the heck he's talking about.  also, i don't
think i've met anyone who claims to, either, and many people fidn
that to be his most indechipherable story.  so, i would like to talk
about that one, but i think we need to work up to it, with maybe some
easier stories first.  i like the "passers-by" that someone posted -
maybe we could look at that one next.  but yes, i agree - one at a
time for now.

Hey Gang I'm back!!
   For some reason my AOL address got blocked so I couldn't respond to anyone.
It was killing me. Anywho, I like that interpretation of the friend in the
relationship that seems so needy, but doesn't that then say that if we ignore
our friend the friendship between us will die. and that we have to be
diligent to keep our friends in our lives and show them that we care?
      And, I love the passage about not showing outward signs of fasting. I'm
Catholic and I completley forgot about it (of course, I missed church on Ash
Wednesday too much stuff to do and I couldn't fit it all in) But that means
that the Hunger Artist is really going against God's wishes because he is a
walking sign for fasting. Plus, he is making money off of something religious
and private, something that is just supposed to be between a person and God.
So, that would mean that he goes against the normal teachings of the church
until the end when he is not noticed but of course, at the end he still isn't
happy. Perhaps he was just looking for someone to believe in him and couldn't
find that from a God that didn't answer him back.

As for the other story, I will read it think about it and get back to you.
That can be our next story to discuss. How bout we make it official and say
everyone be ready by Monday? Since it is so short, that should be enough
time. And think of something else to read while your at it, we could use some
more suggestions.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey, I like the idea of their fate being passivity. It is the same for both
of them. The Hunger Artist seems quite un noticed by the world and the
panther is a star attraction and yet they both recieve the same fate. Only
people see them differently. The Artist is viewed as being almost not a human
because he does none of the things that a human normally does and yet we see
the panther as what we expect a panther to be because that is all we have
ever seen a panther as, a creature in a cage. Maybe Kafka is saying that
neither  the artist nor the panther are fulfilling their true nature and the
cage of society perhaps keeps all our fates in passivity.


  Laura


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey,
   Don't worry about the rambling, that is what we are here for! And about the
religious thing. You're right, Kafka was Jewish. However, a lot of Jewish
people are aware of Christian beliefs and practices just as a lot of
Christians are aware of Jewish beliefs and practices. And, maybe Kafka had no
clue about the Christian take on his story but the fact that we can see it in
his story makes it relevant to us and thereby brings Kafka's story into the
wider world.

About the idea that Kafka would see the hunger artist shying away from
society to practice his art. I can see that because I believe that oftentimes
artist must take a step back from the world they live in day to day and see
it differently than most people would. And, I like the idea of the artist
having integrity, to stick by what he believes in. I think that he is the
last of a dying breed and has decided to go down with the ship as it were.
Which like you said, shows integrity. However, going down with the ship sort
of shows us that he really doesn't see the world for what it is, he has a
narrow view of what he can do and that is it. It would be like someone never
wanting to move on in life. Yes, he gets better in his own little world but
most artists try to do different things or they go through stages, while the
artist just sticks to one thing, yes that shows integrity but in a way
doesn't it also show stagnation?




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey gang,

First off let me apologize for not jumping in on the conversation sooner. My
list address is to an AOL account that was blocked for some reason and I was
at school and couldn't get back to fix it. (I would have asked my Dad to do
it, but I think that would have only made it worse.) So, I'm sorry I kind of
missed our discussion as it was progressing and had to write responses after
the fact.

Secondly, We've had two requests one for Passerby the short one, and one for
a Country Doctor, which two people like and one person says we should wait
on, so how about this, since our Kafka hunger Artist will probably be done by
Monday and if not we can keep talking and add another element, why dont we:

      1               Read the short Passerby for this Monday and then wait
another two weeks and Discuss A Country Doctor on Monday the 21st. If that is
okay with all of you.

      2               Read Passerby for this Monday and another short like
Vulture for  the 14th and then be ready to discuss the big thing, A Country
Doctor on the 21st.

I don't know how well the two week thing worked for everybody. Let us know
what you all want to do, or if you have any other suggestions. That way we
can all get reading. But please, let's keep the hunger artist discussion
going in the meantime.
Thanks for bearing with me all,
                                   Laura


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you like Kafka, you will probably like Cioran.

Life and Works of Cioran

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PlanetCioran/

Subscribe:
PlanetCioran-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Quotations from Cioran

What will be the physiognomy of painting, of poetry, of music, in a
hundred years? No one can tell. As after the fall of Athens, of Rome,
a long pause will intervene, caused by the exhaustion of
consciousness itself. Humanity, to rejoin the past, must invent a
second naiveté, without which the arts can never begin again.
- The Trouble with Being Born

This little blind creature, only a few days old, turning its head
every which way in search of something or other, this naked skull,
this initial baldness, this tiny monkey that has sojourned for months
in a latrine and that soon, forgetting its origins, will spit on the
galaxies.
- Drawn and Quartered

In certain men, everything, absolutely everything, derives from
physiology: their body is their mind, their mind is their body.
- The Trouble with Being Born

Write books only if you are going to say in them the things you would
never dare confide to anyone.
- The Trouble with Being Born

Better to be an animal than a man, an insect than an animal, a plant
than an insect, and so on. Salvation? Whatever diminishes the kingdom
of consciousness and compromises its supremacy.
- The Trouble with Being Born

According to one Hindu legend, Shiva, at a particular moment, will
begin to dance, at first slowly, then faster and faster, and will not
stop before having imposed upon the world a frenzied cadence, in
every respect opposed to that of Creation.
This legend includes no commentary, history having assumed the task
of illustrating its obvious truth.
- Drawn and Quartered

To stretch out in a field, to smell the earth and tell yourself it is
the end as well as the hope of our dejections, that it would be
futile to search for anything better to rest on, to dissolve
into. . . .
- The Trouble with Being Born

It is written in the Zohar: "When man appeared thereupon appeared the
flowers." I suspect they were there long before him, and that his
advent plunged them all into a stupefaction from which they have not
yet recovered.
- The Trouble with Being Born

Paradise was unendurable, otherwise the first man would have adapted
to it; this world is no less so, since here we regret paradise or
anticipate another one. What to do? where to go? Do nothing and go
nowhere, easy enough.
- The Trouble with Being Born

Philosophers write for professors; thinkers for writers.
- Drawn and Quartered

Ideas come as you walk, Nietzsche said. Walking dissipates thoughts,
Shankara taught.
- The Trouble with Being Born

Man is the great deserter of being.
- The Fall into Time

Suffering makes you live time in detail, moment after moment. Which
is to say that it exists for you: over the others, the ones who don't
suffer, time flows, so that they don't live in time, in fact they
never have.
- The New Gods

From denial to denial, his existence is diminished: vaguer and more
unreal than a syllogism of sighs, how could he still be a creature of
flesh and blood? Anemic, he rivals the Idea itself; he has abstracted
himself from his ancestors, from his friends, from every soul and
himself; in his veins, once turbulent, rests a light from another
world. Liberated from what he has lived, unconcerned by what he will
live; he demolishes the signposts on all his roads, and wrests
himself from the dials of all time. "I shall never meet myself
again," he decides, happy to turn his last hatred against himself,
happier still to annihilate--in his forgiveness--all beings, all
things.
- A Short History of Decay

Infatuated by his gifts, ["man"] flouts nature, breaks out of its
stagnation, creating a chaos alternately vile and tragic that becomes
strictly (and naturally) untenable. That he should clear out as soon
as possible is surely nature's wish, and one that man, if he wanted
to, could gratify on the spot. Hence nature would be rid of these
seditious creatures whose every smile is subversive, of this anti-
life force she shelters by force, of this usurper who has stolen her
secrets, in order to subjugate and dishonor her.
-Drawn and Quartered

Our contortions, visible or secret, we communicate to the planet;
already it trembles even as we do, it suffers the contagion of our
crises and, as this grand mal spreads, it vomits us forth, cursing us
the while"
- Drawn and Quartered

Cut off from every root, unfit, moreover to mix with dust or mud, we
have achieved the feat of breaking not only with the depth of things,
but their very surface.
- "Civilized Man"

What life is left him robs him of what reason is left him. Trifles or
scourges--the passing of a fly or the cramps of the planet--horrify
him equally. With his nerves on fire, he would like the Earth to be
made of glass, to shatter it to smithereens; and with what thirst
would fling himself toward the stars to reduce them to powder, one by
one.
- A Short History of Decay

Hi all,

Worked long and hard on this website for sometime now. Some of it is
still under construction due to time constraints.

http://kafka.port5.com

I'd appreciate if feedback is posted in the 'Opinions' section.

Target Audience - Samsas, Bendemanns, Joseph Ks, Josephines and
Friedas of the 21st Century

Hello! I'm also new to the group. I think Kafka writes his stories
quite clear in a very, very simple way. His language doesn't
consist many decorations. The sentences are short and accurate.
You don't have to strainghten your mind to know exactly what is
happening, but... you'll never know WHY it is happening!!!
BUT I wouldn't compare Kafka's works to any "modern art" piece.
I'd rather say it's more like a precise scale drawing of an unknown
building (maybe a castle, but who knows)...
Regards!
Tomek

nevertheless I'm his great fan

here's a sample of my work...let me know what you think at:
keithkafka@...

Black Lipstick
by Keith kafka

         The coffee shop was fairly busy this summer afternoon as I
took my usual seat by the  window. I opened the thick environmental
science book that I had bought along to study for my upcoming final
exam Monday morning. From where I was seated I had a good view of the
whole shop and all of its tables. My eyes scanned the people who were
seated close to where I was seated and my eyes locked with the eyes of
one of the most beautiful woman that I had ever seen. I saw her smile
as I broke my stare and looking down at my book, I blushed deeply. She
was dressed in a dark dress that accented her raven black hair and
deep blue eyes. Her lips were done in black lipstick that made her
pale skin look like fine china. Ordinarily her look was a look that I
didn't usually go in for, yet she suited it so perfectly with her
flawless face and perfect figure.  She struck me as being unattainable
and either very rich or from a very well to do family. I bought my
attention back to my book and flipped through the pages to the chapter
on renewable resources. I read through half of the first sentence when
her voice softly asked me" What is your major ". "Huh ... um ...
Biology" I stammered as I looked up to see her standing  next to my
table looking down at my book. "Nice....you hope to be a biologist
then.  Mind if I sit down" she said as she smiled a sexy smile and sat
down. I was awestruck by her beauty and had to make a conscious effort
to keep my mouth from hanging open. "Would you like a coffee or
something" I offered. " No, I'm fine... Thank you"  she replied
sweetly. "You sure as hell are fine" I thought to myself as I closed
the textbook and focused my attention on this goddess which seemed to
actually have a interest in me. If only my friends could see me now I
thought to myself as I marveled at my new found luck. This seemed like
a scene from a movie except that I was in the role of the character
who gets the girl. After a few moments of awkward silence the
conversation turned towards my studies and other interests of mine.
She offered only small details concerning herself and her life
although after a while I was able to find out that she was new to the
area and didn't know anyone in Town. I could barely contain myself as
I made the offer of showing her around town and maybe having a few
drinks along the way. She smiled a wide smile and happily agreed with
my plans stating that sounded like a great idea. I felt like I was the
luckiest man on the earth at that moment as we both got up and left
the coffee shop. We walked around the lake trail and stopped by the
resort to have a drink after which we took a cab to a bar near my home
which I enjoyed the most of all due to the fact that a few of the
regulars were there and were bound to tell everyone what a lucky slob
I was. She was a dream come true and this was a night to remember. Not
only did she have charm, poise, beauty and a quick wit but of all the
men she could have picked, she had chosen me. The afternoon turned to
evening and the evening turned into night. The time seemed to vanish
much too fast and I found myself wishing that this moment in time
would last forever. But all good things must come to a end and she
whispered in my ear that she had to get home soon or she would never
get up for work in the morning. I offered to see her home and she
quickly accepted which delighted me to no end. She lived in a less
than desirable neighborhood which really surprised me as I found
myself standing in a old dark stairway facing her as we prepared to
bid each other a good night. I found myself frozen in place as she
wrapped her arms around my neck and kissed me fully on the lips. My
initial shock turned to a warm pleasant feeling as I reciprocated the
kiss back onto her lips. My head seemed to reel as if in a dream like
trance as her kisses moved to my face and neck. I was overcome with
pleasure as I felt her arms hold me tighter and her kisses grew
deeper. I felt a strange numbness spreading throughout my body from my
neck area as she held me even tighter yet. I found that I couldn't
move and really didn't seem to care. It was almost as if I were on
some type of drug that left me feeling as if I had no worries of any
kind. The numbness had spread to most of my body now and as I felt my
knees starting to buckle. I found myself being held upright as she
stopped the suckling action on my neck and looked into my eyes. My
vision was  getting dark around the edges as I noticed a thin trickle
of bright red blood pass over her black lipsticked lips and run slowly
to the end of her chin and rapidly drip onto the front of my shirt. As
her face moved back towards my neck I felt a moment of terror which
was soon replaced with a calming darkness spreading throughout my
mind. A darkness black l

Hi

I have seen a movie once based on a story of Franz Kafka, I dont remember the
name exactly, it was something like: " A Man Above The Law" or A Citizen Above
The Law, the story was about a police officer who committed muder and as
seemingly he was challenging the law, he has done his best to let the
investigator know that he did it, but not directly of course, finally they
failed to reach to him so he wrote a letter with his confession to the DA, and
went home and slept, he dreamed that all the big people in the ministry of
interior came to his house in a line of black cars and made a funny trial to him
and the verdict was that he be hit on the head by a shoes!, and they carried out
the verdict with a brand new shoes. He woke up and found out he was dreaming,
then he looked from the window and saw the line oof black cars, story ends.
Can anyone tell me what is the name of the story?, and where can i find it as
PDF or text to download?

Best Regrds
Tarek
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: keithkafka
   To: kafka-list@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Friday, July 04, 2003 2:46 AM
   Subject: [kafka-list] hiya...my name is Keith Kafka & i love to write


   here's a sample of my work...let me know what you think at:
   keithkafka@...

   Black Lipstick
   by Keith kafka

           The coffee shop was fairly busy this summer afternoon as I
   took my usual seat by the  window. I opened the thick environmental
   science book that I had bought along to study for my upcoming final
   exam Monday morning. From where I was seated I had a good view of the
   whole shop and all of its tables. My eyes scanned the people who were
   seated close to where I was seated and my eyes locked with the eyes of
   one of the most beautiful woman that I had ever seen. I saw her smile
   as I broke my stare and looking down at my book, I blushed deeply. She
   was dressed in a dark dress that accented her raven black hair and
   deep blue eyes. Her lips were done in black lipstick that made her
   pale skin look like fine china. Ordinarily her look was a look that I
   didn't usually go in for, yet she suited it so perfectly with her
   flawless face and perfect figure.  She struck me as being unattainable
   and either very rich or from a very well to do family. I bought my
   attention back to my book and flipped through the pages to the chapter
   on renewable resources. I read through half of the first sentence when
   her voice softly asked me" What is your major ". "Huh ... um ...
   Biology" I stammered as I looked up to see her standing  next to my
   table looking down at my book. "Nice....you hope to be a biologist
   then.  Mind if I sit down" she said as she smiled a sexy smile and sat
   down. I was awestruck by her beauty and had to make a conscious effort
   to keep my mouth from hanging open. "Would you like a coffee or
   something" I offered. " No, I'm fine... Thank you"  she replied
   sweetly. "You sure as hell are fine" I thought to myself as I closed
   the textbook and focused my attention on this goddess which seemed to
   actually have a interest in me. If only my friends could see me now I
   thought to myself as I marveled at my new found luck. This seemed like
   a scene from a movie except that I was in the role of the character
   who gets the girl. After a few moments of awkward silence the
   conversation turned towards my studies and other interests of mine.
   She offered only small details concerning herself and her life
   although after a while I was able to find out that she was new to the
   area and didn't know anyone in Town. I could barely contain myself as
   I made the offer of showing her around town and maybe having a few
   drinks along the way. She smiled a wide smile and happily agreed with
   my plans stating that sounded like a great idea. I felt like I was the
   luckiest man on the earth at that moment as we both got up and left
   the coffee shop. We walked around the lake trail and stopped by the
   resort to have a drink after which we took a cab to a bar near my home
   which I enjoyed the most of all due to the fact that a few of the
   regulars were there and were bound to tell everyone what a lucky slob
   I was. She was a dream come true and this was a night to remember. Not
   only did she have charm, poise, beauty and a quick wit but of all the
   men she could have picked, she had chosen me. The afternoon turned to
   evening and the evening turned into night. The time seemed to vanish
   much too fast and I found myself wishing that this moment in time
   would last forever. But all good things must come to a end and she
   whispered in my ear that she had to get home soon or she would never
   get up for work in the morning. I offered to see her home and she
   quickly accepted which delighted me to no end. She lived in a less
   than desirable neighborhood which really surprised me as I found
   myself standing in a old dark stairway facing her as we prepared to
   bid each other a good night. I found myself frozen in place as she
   wrapped her arms around my neck and kissed me fully on the lips. My
   initial shock turned to a warm pleasant feeling as I reciprocated the
   kiss back onto her lips. My head seemed to reel as if in a dream like
   trance as her kisses moved to my face and neck. I was overcome with
   pleasure as I felt her arms hold me tighter and her kisses grew
   deeper. I felt a strange numbness spreading throughout my body from my
   neck area as she held me even tighter yet. I found that I couldn't
   move and really didn't seem to care. It was almost as if I were on
   some type of drug that left me feeling as if I had no worries of any
   kind. The numbness had spread to most of my body now and as I felt my
   knees starting to buckle. I found myself being held upright as she
   stopped the suckling action on my neck and looked into my eyes. My
   vision was  getting dark around the edges as I noticed a thin trickle
   of bright red blood pass over her black lipsticked lips and run slowly
   to the end of her chin and rapidly drip onto the front of my shirt. As
   her face moved back towards my neck I felt a moment of terror which
   was soon replaced with a calming darkness spreading throughout my
   mind. A darkness black l


         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
               ADVERTISEMENT




   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   kafka-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Okay...where is the rest?  That was really good!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Great Rain god
By Keith Kafka


            The rain was tapping lightly at the window as the as the
alarm clock radio buzzed annoyingly. Mike opened his eyes slowly and
aimed a swipe at the alarm and silenced its noise. He lay there
momentarily regaining his senses and feeling the ecstasy of his brain
coming back online. This was his big day and even the rain wasn't
going to dampen his spirits. He sat upright and scanned the floor for
his pants that he had discarded the long night before. Seeing them in
a
heap nearby where he had entered the bed, he reaches over and
scoops them up. Standing up and heading towards the bathroom he
grabs a fresh pair of socks and a clean shirt off of the dresser and
adds
them to the growing pile of clothing he carries. After a bit he is
looking
down at the morning paper as he chews slowly on a small bite of toast.
The headline stands out in its extra bold typeface touting the message
of the Mideastern war " IRAN IN RUINS, SAUDIS LOSE MORE CITIES".  The
war for oil had been going on strong for 6 months now and the rest of
the world was busy choosing sides to ensure their own grip on
precious oil reserves. Putting his paper aside, he opens his briefcase
and opens the new white folder. His first day with this new company,
checking out the new home wiring for CPU's which control the temp
and lighting systems, was going to be a breeze since he had only 3
homes to check on today. That was less then half of what he used to do
for his old company and now he would be making twice as
much.........sweeeeeet. His first check-up on the list was a townhouse
in
a semi rural area 29 miles north of the city. The other two were on
the
outskirts of the city making them easy checks on the way back in. The
long drive was a pleasant break from the hectic city in spite of the
gray sky and light drizzle . As he pulled into the long winding
driveway,
He saw the first house on his list sitting in a nice alcove of woods
at
the top of the drive. Two work trucks were in front and a ladder was
positioned against the east side of the home and next to that stood
two folding sawhorses. The home itself is a nice two story townhouse
with a light cedar siding finish giving it a rustic look.  Walking up
to the front door, Mike heard a skill saw buzz to life, whir its way
through a board and then whine down to nothing again. Intermittent
hammering was coming from the rear of the house as he turned the knob
and entered the dwelling. He easily found the lower level control
board amidst the tarps, ladders and various supplies scattered
throughout the rooms. The smell of fresh paint was still strong in the
air from rooms finished and awaiting their new owners. Mike made his
way to the upper level keypad, made his checks and prepared for the
walk to the back of the house to check the power box by zipping up his
jacket close to his neck. The drizzle had increased a bit since he had
been inside and he winced a bit into the wet wind as he began his trek
to the rear of the home. As he rounded the corner of the building he
saw
a flash of white light and found himself sitting down on the wet grass
next to his briefcase stunned. His face was pounding hot yet numb on
his cheekbone and his vision was blurred. As his eyes started to clear
his first sight was a set of white pants legs. He looked up in time to
see a crazed looking man , who was standing over him now, swing
another blow from a hammer down towards his head. The second blow
grazed the side of his face, stinging his ear on its way down to a
snapping hit to the collarbone. This time he felt every bit of the
pain as he tried to grasp what was going on. He struggled to raise his
arms as another blow from the hammer glanced off his forehead sending
him into a trance like stupor, he knew he was losing conscienceness
and had never dreamed that his life could ever end in this meaningless
of a way. He looked up to the face of the man who now straddled his
chest and was raising the hammer above his head in time to hear a loud
whirring and crackling sound. He saw a larger man was now standing
behind the hammer wielding one, running a circular saw up and across
his back while ignoring the now steady spray of blood and bone bits to
his face. The man sitting on his stomach tumbled forward while
dropping his hammer at the same time. The larger man smiled a wide
smile as he reached down and picked up the dropped hammer and then he
stood there for a long time regarding the hammer as if he had found a
treasure of sorts. He then turned and he walked towards the back of
the house with not so much as a word. Mike didn't want to be there if
he returned and knew that he was hurt and needed to get some help.
The drizzle had turned to a steady rain now and was washing the
blood away from his eyes and face as he made his way to his feet. He
listened for footsteps as he turned and started to stagger towards the
front of the house and the safety of his car. As he neared his car he
saw with sudden terror that it was already occupied by four people
who were laughing wildly at the one behind the wheel that had
painted his face white.  This was crazy, senseless and shockingly
real.
They saw Mike standing there looking at them in disbelief and at once
they all exited the car in unison and started to run towards him.
Mike
broke into a run down the driveway despite the pain from his injuries
that caused his right arm to swing limply at his side as he ran.
Extreme fear made mike run at a speed much faster then he had
thought that he could muster and he gained a little distance on them
as he stretched his legs out in a forced dead run. He was starting to
get
winded by the end of the driveway and as he made the turn onto the
road he noted that they were slowly starting to gain ground on him.
The rain was becoming a downpour and he knew he was soaked to the skin
making running almost a impossibility.  As he shot a glance backwards
he saw that two of them had stopped running and were now walking but
that one of the two that were still running was gaining ground while
the other runner was losing ground. All at once it seemed as if a
flying wall of water hit them as a full-blown white out rain hit them
in their tracks. Mike turned and ran in the same direction as the wind
and found himself rolling headlong down a hill. As he jumped to his
feet the roar of the blinding rain covered the sound of his crashing
through the tall brush on the side of the road. He had made it a good
20 feet into the edge of the woods when the white out rain subsided
into a heavy drizzle. It was the break that he had needed as he froze
in place and listened to  the hollering and footsteps fade down the
road. He slowly sat down in the thicket and caught his breath while
regaining his composure. After about half a hour had passed without a
sound other then the dripping of leaves and wind on branches Mike
slowly stood up. He felt all the pain shoot to his head as he tried to
move his shoulder. He was shivering cold and wet and needed to get his
circulation going or he knew he would become a statistic in some
police blotter. From the brush on the side of the road he looked both
ways before standing up and stepping out onto the wet pavement. His
heart then leapt into his throat as not less then 15 feet away from
where he stood the man with the white face was screaming and crashing
through the brush towards him. He must have lain there in the brush
all that time waiting for Mike to come out into the open. Mike found
himself running in the same direction from whence he had come with the
white-faced man a few steps behind as he saw a truck in the distance
nearing them. Mike figured that the truck must have been doing at
least 80 m.p.h. when it got to a point where he saw the blood
splattered face of the large man and made a last second leap out of
the trucks way. The front bumper clipped and broke both of his legs at
the same instant as he heard the fatal crunch of his pursuer against
the trucks grille. He felt his body spinning out of control through
the air as he caught a glimpse of the truck screeching out of control
sideways into a rollover. Everything seemed to be in slow motion now
to Mike as his body bounces and slides to a stop on his belly and face
in middle of the road. He can taste blood as he sees billowing smoke
coming from the spot where the truck had wrapped around a large pine
tree. He tries to sit up but can only manage after what seems like a
hour to roll over to his back. Everything seems to recede into a dark
tunnel as Mike blacks out. Mike finds himself in a cold embrace with a
creature of unbefore known beauty . A thing of  twisting light and
swirling colored liquid shades and forms holding him in the air and
carrying him gently like a mother would hold her baby. So beautiful
yet so cold it makes Mike shiver and smile at the same time. Mikes
eyes snap open to a blinding light and stinging rain blowing hard at
his face. The Great Rain god has come to take him and Mike smiles.

"We have what appears to be a man down and also wreckage to the side
of the road about a 1/2 mile down from site on the roadway " The
Police chopper pilot relays over his two-way. The officer in the
passenger seat looks down at mike laying on the road illuminated by
their floodlight and says in a low tone " half a dozen crazies escape
from the maximum security ward at Saint Johns and we have 12 confirmed
dead, a lot of people were at the wrong place at the wrong time". The
pilot nods as police cars and a ambulance come rolling over the low
hi

> Re: Thank you/I'll put 1 story up a week..untill someone
> says to stop

actually keith, i am going to have to ask you to stop.  not that i
don't like your stories, but this kafka list is not the forum for
them.  the sole purpose of this list is to discuss franz kafka's
stories, and i have to enforce that.

i think it's cool that you're writing - and freely sharing what you
write.  if you'd like help setting up a new keith kafka mailing list,
let me know and i'd be happy to help.

to everyone else: if you would like to keep receiving keith's stories,
please write to keith directly to request him send them directly to
you (keith, please put me on that list).

sorry to once again be the facist list moderator, but i hope you
understand.  take care.

brian

hey there, I really enjoy Kafka and am studying a module entitled
change in self. Want to use 'The Metamorphosis' as a related text.
Obvious change in self from guy to beetle (no-duh) but i was
wondering if anyone else could come up with anything interesting?

thinking about maybe the consequences of a change in self, how he is
then viewed, what Kafka is saying about change in self etc.

i know this is rather random, but if you could help that'd be great!!

Hello,
I just joined this group and would like to share my favourite
kafkaesque movies with you:

"The Trial", a B&W wonder from the fifties or so, directed by Mr
Orson Wells, and starred by Anthony Perkins.

"The Audience", a funny Italian movie from the sixties/seventies
about an Italian country side man who goes to the Vatican with the
only purpose of having a meeting with the Pope to discuss an
important matter. He waits for days at the door of the Pope´s
office, days that become weeks, and weeks that become years. During
this patience exercise he will meet a wonderful woman, will have
children but will continue dedicated to pursue his vital goal.
Probably Italy´s top actor, Vittorio Gassman is the protagonist, his
partner is nice and friendly Monica Vitti.

"Brazil", just the most Kafkaesque of all movies that I have ever
seen. Set in a nightmirish future, Jonathan Price tries to make his
dreams become true in bureaucratic existence. This movie was
directed by Terry Gilliam (Monty Python) in 1982 and has an
excellent soundtrack.

"I hired a contract killer", set in London in the 1990´s and
directed by Finnish Aki Kaurismaki, this movie is the funniest of
the Kafkaesque commedies about one of those moments that we all fear
because after them Death can come some other day: Being asked by
your manager to accept early retirement. The movie was shot in Black
and White annd it inspired Cohen Brother´s "The Man Who Wasn´t
There".

"Kafka" is an interesting movie. Jeremy Irons plays Kafka both as
Kafka himself and as the actor of Kafka´s works. The result is just
awesome, in which Kafka´s life is interwoven with bureacracy, fears,
threats and anxiety.



Those above are my favourite movies inspired by our favourite
author. I am sure that the other members of this group will help me
enrich it.

Best regards!


Eu.
P.S. I just moved to Brussels, and I found by chance a bar
called "Kafka". In case you pass by, it is behind the UGC cinemas at
Brouckerie.

Hiya,

Changing is relevant because it implies death. Humans tend to
rather "evolve" or grow by adaptation to a changing environment. If
things change, we become stronger to adapt or we die. If we change
ourselves means that we cannot recognize ourselves in what we used
to do, to look like, etc. Our fear from a changing environment, from
a changing world is about being forced to change ourselves. We
prefer evolving, so that we keep our heritage disguised under a
different dress. Burt Lancaster in Vittorio Desica´s movie says: "It
is absolutely necessary that everything changes so that we can stay
the same"... he plays the role of a Prince during the Garibaldi
revolution in Italy and what he means is: We, the masters of the
world, need to make cosmetic changes once in a while to continue
ruling the world. This prince stays the same, he evolves. On the
other hand, the beetle of the Metamorphosis doesn´t evolve, but he
changes, his former role as huma dies, his friends, his job and even
his family are lost.
For a positive view on change, there is a wonderful novel by Italian
Nobel graduate Luigi Pirandello "Matias Pascal", about a guy who
decides to change rather than evolve, and with a good result :-)

Eu.





--- In kafka-list@yahoogroups.com, "emilyfg25" <emilyfg25@y...>
wrote:
> hey there, I really enjoy Kafka and am studying a module entitled
> change in self. Want to use 'The Metamorphosis' as a related text.
> Obvious change in self from guy to beetle (no-duh) but i was
> wondering if anyone else could come up with anything interesting?
>
> thinking about maybe the consequences of a change in self, how he
is
> then viewed, what Kafka is saying about change in self etc.
>
> i know this is rather random, but if you could help that'd be
great!!

Have you seen the newer more updated version of The
Trail. It has Anthony Hopkins in it and is almost the
book exactly.

--- eu_main <eu_main@...> wrote:
> Hello,
> I just joined this group and would like to share my
> favourite
> kafkaesque movies with you:
>
> "The Trial", a B&W wonder from the fifties or so,
> directed by Mr
> Orson Wells, and starred by Anthony Perkins.
>
> "The Audience", a funny Italian movie from the
> sixties/seventies
> about an Italian country side man who goes to the
> Vatican with the
> only purpose of having a meeting with the Pope to
> discuss an
> important matter. He waits for days at the door of
> the Pope´s
> office, days that become weeks, and weeks that
> become years. During
> this patience exercise he will meet a wonderful
> woman, will have
> children but will continue dedicated to pursue his
> vital goal.
> Probably Italy´s top actor, Vittorio Gassman is the
> protagonist, his
> partner is nice and friendly Monica Vitti.
>
> "Brazil", just the most Kafkaesque of all movies
> that I have ever
> seen. Set in a nightmirish future, Jonathan Price
> tries to make his
> dreams become true in bureaucratic existence. This
> movie was
> directed by Terry Gilliam (Monty Python) in 1982 and
> has an
> excellent soundtrack.
>
> "I hired a contract killer", set in London in the
> 1990´s and
> directed by Finnish Aki Kaurismaki, this movie is
> the funniest of
> the Kafkaesque commedies about one of those moments
> that we all fear
> because after them Death can come some other day:
> Being asked by
> your manager to accept early retirement. The movie
> was shot in Black
> and White annd it inspired Cohen Brother´s "The Man
> Who Wasn´t
> There".
>
> "Kafka" is an interesting movie. Jeremy Irons plays
> Kafka both as
> Kafka himself and as the actor of Kafka´s works. The
> result is just
> awesome, in which Kafka´s life is interwoven with
> bureacracy, fears,
> threats and anxiety.
>
>
>
> Those above are my favourite movies inspired by our
> favourite
> author. I am sure that the other members of this
> group will help me
> enrich it.
>
> Best regards!
>
>
> Eu.
> P.S. I just moved to Brussels, and I found by chance
> a bar
> called "Kafka". In case you pass by, it is behind
> the UGC cinemas at
> Brouckerie.
>
>


=====
Listen to the MUSTN'TS child, Listen to the DONT's
Listen to the SHOULDN'TS, the IMPOSSIBLES, the WON'TS
Listen to the NEVER HAVES, then Listen close to me
ANYTHING can happen child, ANYTHING can be

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

I am a new member to this Kafka Club, and I thought I would begin by
browsing around your past communications.  I was very interested in
the comments of your post, dated 4/02/03.  You note that you prefer
to shy away from any sort of religious interpretation of Kafka's
writings.  While I would not argue that Kafka can or should be
interpreted in a religious manner, I would suggest that it is absurd
(not to say Kafkaesque) to ignore the numerous influences upon
Kafka's writings, by various religious texts.
     Any truly "educated" person (such as he was) of Kafka's era would
have had an education founded in the study of the great books of
Western culture.  These would include Homer, Dante, Cervantes,
Shakespeare, Goethe, etc... as well as the Bible.  Kafka's notebooks
and journals make clear that he has indeed read the "Odyssey", "Don
Quixote", Shakespeare, Dickens, Flaubert, Tolstoy, Kierkegaard,
Goethe's plays and journals, Schiller, Kleist, and countless other
German authors.  At the same time, he makes repeated references to
various religious and/or Jewish texts, including the Hebrew poet,
Bialik, the Yiddish writer, Sholom Aleichem, the Yiddish theater, the
Talmud, and various Biblical stories. Beyond this, we know that Kafka
explored his Jewish culture to the point of attempting to master
Hebrew.
     Some of  Kafka's most interesting writings include his short
aphorisms, to be found in his "Blue Octavo Notebooks".   There, one
uncovers numerous Borghesian (well we can't honestly say Kafkaesque,
when speaking of Kafka himself, can we?) reinterpretations of "Don
Quixote" as well as the "Tower of Babel", "Adam and Eve and the Fall
of Man", the story of Abraham, Shulamith, etc...  In one of my
favorite such aphorisms, Kafka declares, "The Messiah will come only
when he is no longer necessary" How might we apply this thought
to "The Castle" or the famous cathedral scene from "The Trial?"
    My point is not to simply prove Kafka's awareness of
various "religious" texts... and even less, to suggest that we seek a
religious interpretation of his work, but rather, to suggest that
Kafka engages in a serious dialog and reinterpretation of
these "religious", "Jewish", Biblical texts as literature and as
thematic sources.  Many of Kafka's shortest tales reveal a clear
affinity with Jewish parables in their brevity and unadorned
language. They also echo the Jewish tradition of Midrash, or
reinterpretation of parables, aphorisms, and short texts.
    If we, for example, take a Borghesian (and Midrashic) approach to
our reading of some Biblical texts (as if the ancient Hebrew authors
followed Kafka as opposed to him writing long after them) we might
find nothing more Kafkaesque than the "Book of Job": We might imagine
Kafka beginning Job as follows: "Someone must have slandered J.,
because one morning he was arrested and all that he owned was taken
from him, even though he had done nothing wrong."  After the book of
Job briefly introduces us to Job himself, we are immediately wisked
into a scene in heaven (a transition as audacious as any by
Kafka).  "Heaven, it turns out," as author Steven Mitchell informs
us, "is only the court of some ancient King of Kings."  This great
King is proudly holding court and bragging before his courtier's
(including the Accuser... who may or may not merely be an embodiment
of the King's own doubts) of the loyalty of his servant, Job. How can
the Accuser not take up the challenge?  That, after all, is his role.
And so these two powerful potentates begin to toy with the underling
Job, who can't begin to fathom what he has fallen prey to nor why.
His whole world just falls apart one day, (just as K.'s does as he is
suddenly arrested or turned into a giant bug).  As the accuser
returns to the King's court, having failed to have broken J., the
Lord utters what must surely be one of the most nausiatingly sinister
declarations in his own defense: "See, my servant J. remains loyal,
even after YOU made me torture him for no reason." This is followed
by the calm resolved cruelty of, "All right, he is completely in your
power, save only his life."  The fact that this blasphemous scene is
in the Bible is alost obscene.
   Kafka must have wished he had written this scene from the ancient
Hebrew work, for we see him returning to it again and again (in "The
Trial", "The Castle" , "A Visit to a Mine", etc....)  Kafka
understood that Job presents us with one of the greatest (and
earliest) versions of that most favorite of Jewish theme, that of the
victim... the lesser or weaker mortals who are toyed with and abused
for no other apparent reason than that of the fact that their abusers
have the power to do so.  It is the theme of weak mortals daring to
question the morality of nature, fate, life and God himself.
     Beyond "Job" we might also explore another of Kafka's repeated
themes: that of the long suffering endured while of waiting...
waiting for something or someone who never comes. Kafka uses this
idea as the basis for the entirety of "The Castle", "Before the Law"
and in many other tales and scenes.  One cannot help but see the
obvious resemblance between these scenes by Kafka and that of the
eternal Jewish wait for the "Messiah"... the Messiah who will only
come when he is no longer necessary.
    Anyway, I have written on long enough.  I must freely admit to
some degree of verbosity as opposed to our author's much-vaunted
brevity and precise prose. What can I say? I like adjectives! Anyway,
feel free to write.  And please, fear not of offending
my "Jewishness", I was actually raised Lutheran, but would probably
claim to be an agnostic, if anything.

Yours-

Stlukesguild

Hi
I have been thinking about Eu's statement that Mattia Pascal 'changes
rather than evolve' and 'with a good result'!! Well, I do not think that
Mattia changes, rather he adapts at the new situation. He wanted to
change his life, of course, and takes the opportunity that the fate
gives him... but he soon realizes that changing is not possible, due to
many reasons, and he would like to go back to his old life.. but that is
not possible also. So, the olnly thing he can do is to adapt to this new
situation, living a non-life in the shadow of a library... Personally, I
do not think this is a good result!!

Pas

Last week I was walking along London´s Thames Southbank. It was for
one year since I left London and I was impressed by the building
that architect Norman Foster desgined to host Mayor Livingstone and
his staff. I took a few pictures of this friendly-looking temple of
municipal buraucracy and then my attention was diverted to a crowd
of people around a crane near the building. As I approached, I
noticed that something was going on inside a glass cage hung from
the crane. There was a person inside, I asked: "What is happening?"
to a tourist taking pictures of the cage. And he replied: "It is
David Blaine, the stuntman, he wants to starve for 44 days in
there"... :O
Of course, David Blaine will get a good deal of money from
sponsorship and TV exclusives, so he will not complain like Kafka´s
Hunger Artist about the low wages that Hunger Artists get.
David Blaine is not a Hunger Artist, but the Hunger Master.

If you are in the area, head to London and get some merchandasing
like "I saw a man starve for 44 days" T-shirt and get evidence that
Kafka´s stories are well behind reality.

For the latest news, visit BBC´s website, broadcasting onsite:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3105286.stm


Eu.

MS Client

this is the latest version of security update, the
"October 2003, Cumulative Patch" update which fixes
all known security vulnerabilities affecting
MS Internet Explorer, MS Outlook and MS Outlook Express
as well as three newly discovered vulnerabilities.
Install now to protect your computer
from these vulnerabilities.
This update includes the functionality of all previously released patches.

System requirements: Windows 95/98/Me/2000/NT/XP
This update applies to:
  - MS Internet Explorer, version 4.01 and later
  - MS Outlook, version 8.00 and later
  - MS Outlook Express, version 4.01 and later

Recommendation: Customers should install the patch at the earliest opportunity.
How to install: Run attached file. Choose Yes on displayed dialog box.
How to use: You don't need to do anything after installing this item.


Microsoft Product Support Services and Knowledge Base articles can be found on
the Microsoft Technical Support web site.
http://support.microsoft.com/

For security-related information about Microsoft products, please visit the
Microsoft Security Advisor web site
http://www.microsoft.com/security/

Thank you for using Microsoft products.

Please do not reply to this message.
It was sent from an unmonitored e-mail address and we are unable to respond to
any replies.

----------------------------------------------
The names of the actual companies and products mentioned herein are the
trademarks of their respective owners.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In kafka-list@yahoogroups.com, "Customer Services" <janlaza@z...>
wrote:
> MS Client
>
> this is the latest version of security update, the "October 2003,
> Cumulative Patch" update which fixes all known security
> vulnerabilities...


in case anyone out there has not already heard this _do_not_ do what
this email says, regardless or where you receive it from.  it is a
virus.  microsoft does not send out security updates through email.
read more here:
http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3080001

sorry about that everyone.  that "person" has been removed from the
list.  take care.

brian

Hey, I'm a lurker on this list. Just wanted to get some input from
some of you about my website and writing at www.avantpunk.com ... I'm
a starving author/artist of surrealism and the absurd.  I have 4
novels and a story collection out now and have been published in the
latest Year's Best Fantasy and Horror.  I just want some input, not
trying to sell you any books or anything (though that would make me
really happy if you bought one)

My books are Teeth and Tongue Landscape, Razor Wire Pubic Hair, Satan
Burger, Sunset with a Beard, and Electric Jesus Corpse.  I've got new
books coming out all the time, all over the place.

Let me know what you think and leave a message on my site's forum if
you want.

Take care,
Carlton Mellick III
author of the squishy bizarre
www.avantpunk.com

Hi Everyone,

I have been studying Kafka's The trial as part of an English Lit
module and I have been coping with it quite well as I was very
unsure of it in the beginning, as I had read so many conflicting
interruptations and ideas.

What I am wondering is if anyone who has read the book a couple of
times( which i intend to do again in the future) or done an indepth
study of Kafka's work could tell me if they feel that Kafka took the
reader on an imaginative journey throughout Josef K entire story.
Part of my study is to explore other readers feelings on the journey
experienced.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I must say that Kafka's work in this book has had me thinking and
exploring many different ideals and concepts.

I have really enjoyed it and so glad to be introduced to Kafka's
work


Jenna

I thought that The Trial was an exploration (an imaginative journey, if you
like) of a society in which conformity is compulsory and in which a person
can be arrested and "tried" (K didn't get a fair trial either!) without ever
really knowing what it is that he has done wrong. What is really chilling is
that K is not on the surface a "rebel" or a "deviant"- in fact, he is unable
to think what it is that he could have done wrong! Conformity does not have
to follow set criteria either- how many of us have had the experience of not
wanting to associate with someone (or someone not wanting to associate with
you) but not being able to pinpoint an exact reason other than that they are
not "in" or that they are "weird", etc.
I have to sign off, but I hope that the above is helpful.


----Original Message Follows----
From: "jenna_dw" <jenna_dw@...>
Reply-To: kafka-list@yahoogroups.com
To: kafka-list@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [kafka-list] The trial ???
Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 17:20:10 -0000

Hi Everyone,

I have been studying Kafka's The trial as part of an English Lit
module and I have been coping with it quite well as I was very
unsure of it in the beginning, as I had read so many conflicting
interruptations and ideas.

What I am wondering is if anyone who has read the book a couple of
times( which i intend to do again in the future) or done an indepth
study of Kafka's work could tell me if they feel that Kafka took the
reader on an imaginative journey throughout Josef K entire story.
Part of my study is to explore other readers feelings on the journey
experienced.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

I must say that Kafka's work in this book has had me thinking and
exploring many different ideals and concepts.

I have really enjoyed it and so glad to be introduced to Kafka's
work


Jenna






Priya

_________________________________________________________________
We've 100s of NEW questions! Play Millionaire online to win $$$$. Click here
   http://sites.ninemsn.com.au/minisite/millionaire/default.asp

When we studied Kafka's trial in my calss we dicsussed
the trial as being symbolical of the inevetable death
we all face. We are all on trial all the time. We just
dont know it. Its a great book you should look into
some of his other work.
Does that help?

--- Priya Subramaniam <liminalspace@...>
wrote:
> I thought that The Trial was an exploration (an
> imaginative journey, if you
> like) of a society in which conformity is compulsory
> and in which a person
> can be arrested and "tried" (K didn't get a fair
> trial either!) without ever
> really knowing what it is that he has done wrong.
> What is really chilling is
> that K is not on the surface a "rebel" or a
> "deviant"- in fact, he is unable
> to think what it is that he could have done wrong!
> Conformity does not have
> to follow set criteria either- how many of us have
> had the experience of not
> wanting to associate with someone (or someone not
> wanting to associate with
> you) but not being able to pinpoint an exact reason
> other than that they are
> not "in" or that they are "weird", etc.
> I have to sign off, but I hope that the above is
> helpful.
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "jenna_dw" <jenna_dw@...>
> Reply-To: kafka-list@yahoogroups.com
> To: kafka-list@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [kafka-list] The trial ???
> Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 17:20:10 -0000
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I have been studying Kafka's The trial as part of an
> English Lit
> module and I have been coping with it quite well as
> I was very
> unsure of it in the beginning, as I had read so many
> conflicting
> interruptations and ideas.
>
> What I am wondering is if anyone who has read the
> book a couple of
> times( which i intend to do again in the future) or
> done an indepth
> study of Kafka's work could tell me if they feel
> that Kafka took the
> reader on an imaginative journey throughout Josef K
> entire story.
> Part of my study is to explore other readers
> feelings on the journey
> experienced.
>
> Any input would be greatly appreciated.
>
> I must say that Kafka's work in this book has had me
> thinking and
> exploring many different ideals and concepts.
>
> I have really enjoyed it and so glad to be
> introduced to Kafka's
> work
>
>
> Jenna
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Priya
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> We've 100s of NEW questions! Play Millionaire online
> to win $$$$. Click here
>
>
http://sites.ninemsn.com.au/minisite/millionaire/default.asp
>
>


=====
Listen to the MUSTN'TS child, Listen to the DONT's
Listen to the SHOULDN'TS, the IMPOSSIBLES, the WON'TS
Listen to the NEVER HAVES, then Listen close to me
ANYTHING can happen child, ANYTHING can be

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com