I understand the argument, Matthew; right. The "dehistoricization of John" is the prevalent platform among modern biblical scholars, reflected here in your...
5864
jgibson000@...
jgibson000
Aug 20, 2010 11:28 pm
... We can proceed by you first recognizing not only (a) that there is no mutual exclusivity between a doing historical reporting and doing theology as you...
5863
Matthew Estrada
matt_estrada
Aug 20, 2010 9:21 pm
Paul, you stated: "There are no explicit uses of the Synoptics or exact representations of Synoptic traditions in John--every similarity is also different. So...
5862
Paul Anderson
pna4601
Aug 20, 2010 2:31 pm
Good points here, partially; I think there is a great deal of explicit use of Hebrew Scripture in the Fourth Gospel, as well as implicit references to ...
5861
Matthew Estrada
matt_estrada
Aug 20, 2010 9:07 am
Paul, in your last post you said:Â "There is no evidence that the Johannine narrator depended on Mark or other Synoptic accounts, as all the ...
5860
Paul Anderson
pna4601
Aug 20, 2010 4:40 am
Okay, but the Synoptic traditions must be treated individually, rather than as a collected set of traditions--that did not develop until the mid-second ...
5859
Matthew Estrada
matt_estrada
Aug 20, 2010 2:48 am
Hi Paul, I enjoyed reading your paper that you reference below. You raise some debatable issues that are worth discussing. 1)Â Â Â Â Â I agree that Bultmann...
5858
Paul Anderson
pna4601
Aug 20, 2010 1:07 am
Thanks, Hellen! You might also look at Ian McKay's work on John and Mark; that book changed my mind from Johannine independence from the Synoptics to Johannine...
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Mardaga, Hellen
MARDAGA@...
Aug 20, 2010 12:36 am
Dear Paul, as far as the CBA meeting is concerned, it lasted from Saturday evening until Tuesday morning. I attended an interesting task force on the synoptic...
5856
Paul Anderson
pna4601
Aug 19, 2010 11:52 pm
Dear colleagues, Having received a "flow" of discussions on "water and blood" in the Johannine writings, I'm wondering if there are other topics that Johannine...
5855
jgibson000@...
jgibson000
Aug 19, 2010 11:40 pm
... It should? Why? ... What questions are those? And leaving apart the question of what is and is not reasonable, who says that the answers given to them,...
5854
Matthew Estrada
matt_estrada
Aug 19, 2010 11:25 pm
Hi Matthew, I now would like to respond to one more point in one of your posts that I did not do justice to before. You state: "John's baptism is not from...
5853
Matthew Estrada
matt_estrada
Aug 19, 2010 11:06 pm
Matthew, I also wanted to try responding again to one of your most recent post to see if I could do it more justice. You state: "Some of John's symbols however...
5852
Matthew Estrada
matt_estrada
Aug 19, 2010 9:50 pm
 Hi Matthew, Here are my top 3 reasons why I think that "water" symbolizes, for the author, "the Law and the Prophets = the Father's dispensation": 1) "water"...
5851
jgibson000@...
jgibson000
Aug 19, 2010 3:19 pm
... To put it bluntly (and with apologies for doing so), it's because (as I have pointed out before) Matthew believes that the author of John was a good...
5850
Matthew Miller
logosmadefle...
Aug 19, 2010 3:06 pm
Matthew you said. ... Please go further than repeating what you have already said. I know that you believe that water = the law and the prophets. While I...
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jgibson000@...
jgibson000
Aug 19, 2010 1:32 am
... Leaving aside the question of whether you are reading 4th and 5th century Chistological language and concerns and theology into GJohn (Godhead? Persons,...
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Matthew Estrada
matt_estrada
Aug 19, 2010 1:00 am
Hi Matthew, IÂ have no problem with your definition of a symbol (your 2nd paragraph). Â I do think that your interpretation of "water" as John uses it in Jn...
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Matthew Miller
logosmadefle...
Aug 19, 2010 12:32 am
Matt In order to define John's water motif you must first understand the narrative world from which all Johannine symbols emerge. The FG depicts two worlds, a...
5846
jgibson000@...
jgibson000
Aug 18, 2010 10:26 pm
Matthew, I'm still waiting for answers to the questions below. May I expect them anytime soon? ***** ... What indication do we have that the author of...
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Matthew Estrada
matt_estrada
Aug 18, 2010 9:46 pm
Hi Paul, a) Thanks for the caution. However, it seems to me that however you describe it, John is advocating a God who has been working through 3 distinct...
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Paul Anderson
pna4601
Aug 18, 2010 4:27 pm
Just a few cautions, here: a) Drawing on trinitarian theology, developing several centuries later, may not be the strongest way to argue an exegetical point....
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Matthew Estrada
matt_estrada
Aug 18, 2010 9:52 am
Hi Matthew, 1) In spite of the Genesis allusion, of which there are many throughout Jn 1-2:11 (apxn forming an inclusio from Jn 1:1-2:11), I still believe that...
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Matthew Miller
logosmadefle...
Aug 18, 2010 5:07 am
Matt You said ... John's baptism is not from above if you accept the implicit allusion to Genesis 1:6-8. The Holy Spirit represents water from above and...
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jgibson000@...
jgibson000
Aug 18, 2010 1:22 am
... What indication do we have that the author of GMatthew, let alone that of GMark and GLuke as well that of GJohn were aware of, not to mention used in any...
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Matthew Estrada
matt_estrada
Aug 18, 2010 12:24 am
O.K. Matthew, Here is my response to what you say below: First, I have no problem of seeing the allusion to Genesis 1:6-8 in Jn 1 as referring to the Holy ...
5839
Matthew Estrada
matt_estrada
Aug 18, 2010 12:01 am
Hi Matthew, I, too, am enjoying our dialogue. Thanks for taking the time to seriously consider how I have come to understand John's "water"; symbolism (I owe...
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Matthew Miller
logosmadefle...
Aug 17, 2010 6:58 pm
I can't tell you how much I'm enjoying this conversation. For a long time I've looked for others who know the literature of John well enough they can ...
5837
Matthew Estrada
matt_estrada
Aug 16, 2010 11:34 pm
Hi Matthew, I believe I am hearing what you are saying, but I still do not see "wine" as referring to some higher kind of water. Perhaps this point will help...
5836
Matthew Miller
logosmadefle...
Aug 16, 2010 10:45 pm
Welcome to the discussion Paul I saw that you responded to the initial question on 1 John 5:6 here...
