Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
ICCPolitics · Politics, Philosophy, and Action group
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Want your group to be featured on the Yahoo! Groups website? Add a group photo to Flickr.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
Messages 11427 - 11456 of 11456   Newest  |  < Newer  |  Older >  |  Oldest
Messages: Show Message Summaries   (Group by Topic) Sort by Date v  
#11456 From: rchrdstvr@...
Date: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:40 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Scientist: Global COOLING in near future - Fox News
ricksfolly
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
In a message dated 1/12/2010 2:39:15 PM Mountain Standard Time, tharter@... writes:

There are of course various theories about conveyor currents and global heat distribution. From what I know its a pretty rapidly evolving field of study. I get the impression these stories are based on some science that is considered either fairly speculative or possibly outdated depending on who you listen to, but we'll see. >>

My dad once told me to question everything, including their motives, and so far he's been right.


Richard



#11455 From: Tod Harter <tharter@...>
Date: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:38 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics] Scientist: Global COOLING in near future - Fox News
tharter@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Wellllll, we shall see. I won't discount news automatically due to the source but OTOH yeah Fox isn't exactly your best bet for accurate reporting.

There are of course various theories about conveyor currents and global heat distribution. From what I know its a pretty rapidly evolving field of study. I get the impression these stories are based on some science that is considered either fairly speculative or possibly outdated depending on who you listen to, but we'll see.

Dr Latif seems to be pretty legit. Sounds like he's got some interesting ideas. Of course anyone trying to spin whatever he's saying as being some sort of general criticism of AGW better do some basic reading, lol.

On Tue, Jan 12, 2010 at 3:38 PM, Scott Bergeson <scottb@...> wrote:
 

Yeah, it's Faux News, but look at it anyhow.

Scientist: Global COOLING in near future
Fox News

"From Miami to Maine, Savannah to Seattle, America
is caught in an icy grip that one of the U.N.'s top
global warming proponents says could mark the beginning
of a mini ice age. Oranges are freezing and millions
of tropical fish are dying in Florida, and it could
be just the beginning of a decades-long deep freeze,
says Professor Mojib Latif, one of the world's leading
climate modelers. Latif thinks the cold snap Americans
have been suffering through is only the beginning. He
says we're in for 30 years of cooler temperatures -
a mini ice age, he calls it, basing his theory on an
analysis of natural cycles in water temperatures in
the world's oceans." (01/11/10)

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/01/11/years-global-cooling-coming-say-leading-scientists/

http://tinyurl.com/ycb7ao5




--
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.

#11454 From: Scott Bergeson <scottb@...>
Date: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:38 pm
Subject: Scientist: Global COOLING in near future - Fox News
shbergeson
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Yeah, it's Faux News, but look at it anyhow.

Scientist: Global COOLING in near future
Fox News

"From Miami to Maine, Savannah to Seattle, America
is caught in an icy grip that one of the U.N.'s top
global warming proponents says could mark the beginning
of a mini ice age. Oranges are freezing and millions
of tropical fish are dying in Florida, and it could
be just the beginning of a decades-long deep freeze,
says Professor Mojib Latif, one of the world's leading
climate modelers. Latif thinks the cold snap Americans
have been suffering through is only the beginning. He
says we're in for 30 years of cooler temperatures -
a mini ice age, he calls it, basing his theory on an
analysis of natural cycles in water temperatures in
the world's oceans." (01/11/10)

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/01/11/years-global-cooling-coming-say-leadin\
g-scientists/

http://tinyurl.com/ycb7ao5

#11453 From: rchrdstvr@...
Date: Sat Jan 9, 2010 5:10 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare
ricksfolly
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
In a message dated 1/9/2010 11:12:50 AM Mountain Standard Time, kencan@... writes:

It's about fear, the purpose of global warming, swine flu, imminent asteroids, hurricanes, terrorism, economic collapse, etc., is to make us afraid. >>


I agree, but it isn't about conspiracy or purpose, it's about uncontrollable human nature.

Richard




#11452 From: rchrdstvr@...
Date: Sat Jan 9, 2010 4:58 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare
ricksfolly
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
In a message dated 1/8/2010 8:34:15 PM Mountain Standard Time, scottb@... writes:

Simply calling anything you don't like a conspiracy
and ignoring it is ridiculous.>>

No conspiracy,
just incompetant engineering practices based on erronious, incomplete data
collecting... Nothing new here. It's the same line of erronious reasons of why we're still in Afghanistan... Unreliable, incomplete, data collecting
.


Richard

#11451 From: Ronald Regehr <regehr@...>
Date: Sat Jan 9, 2010 9:40 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare.
regehr@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Home Sweet Home
On Jan 9, 2010, at 2:28 PM, rchrdstvr@... wrote:

In a message dated 1/8/2010 12:43:29 PM Mountain Standard Time, tharter@gmail.com writes: 

Awe, chill out! Where's the fun in THAT ;) 

Okay, back to business...


  One more thing that reveals the human fallibility is in my own town. Yesterday the 
outside temp on my therm was 16 F at 10  AM, but the official temp, taken two miles away was  -2 F at 8 AM.


   Richard


"Never in the history of the world has there been a situation so bad that the government couldn't make it worse."




#11450 From: rchrdstvr@...
Date: Sat Jan 9, 2010 4:39 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare
ricksfolly
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
In a message dated 1/8/2010 8:16:11 PM Mountain Standard Time, scottb@... writes:

I mean the problem HAS
to get fixed. There is no option that includes
failing to do that which can ever be acceptable.>>

Only if there IS a problem. IMO, there is none, only suppositions, what ifs,  and educated guesses. However, I'm not going to rain on Obama's parade. He says global warming will create thousands of green jobs, and new hiring is the only thing that counts.

Richard

  



#11449 From: rchrdstvr@...
Date: Sat Jan 9, 2010 4:28 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare.
ricksfolly
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
In a message dated 1/8/2010 12:43:29 PM Mountain Standard Time, tharter@... writes:

Awe, chill out! Where's the fun in THAT ;)

Okay, back to business...


  One more thing that reveals the human fallibility is in my own town. Yesterday the
outside temp on my therm was 16 F at 10  AM, but the official temp, taken two miles away was  -2 F at 8 AM.


   Richard

#11448 From: tussionex@...
Date: Sat Jan 9, 2010 7:58 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare
tussionexman
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Well said Ken. We don't see terrorist attacks in Switzerland do we? End the fed and all these bad actions will not happen as they can't do all of this abuse if they can't print unlimited money.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Larsen" <kencan@...>
To: ICCPolitics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, January 9, 2010 11:09:19 AM GMT -07:00 US/Canada Mountain
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare

 

It's about fear, the purpose of global warming, swine flu, imminent asteroids, hurricanes, terrorism, economic collapse, etc., is to make us afraid.  Freedom requires trust and bravery.  Slavery requires fear.  Fear is their most powerful weapon against our freedom and prosperity.  Roosevelt was right when he said we had nothing to fear but fear itself.
 
The purpose of the war on Terrorism is to put fear into the hearts of Americans.  Thus, after a couple of buildings and a few thousand casulties from the actions of a couple of dozen idiots, we go crazy with fear, throw away our privacy rights with the Patriot Act, and find some excuse for intensive, useless military actions that kill tens of thousands and achieve nothing except to enrich Halliburton, etc. Then, with the fear of the economic meltdown, we are happy to give up our freedoms to control our own lives, giving up to the government the medical, automitive, banking, housing, etc. industries.  When we say give to government, let's understand that means giving up to those powers that control our government, as they become our masters and we become slaves.  It doesn't take conspiratorializm to see the obvious.  It is not relevant which idiots caused 9-11.  What matters is how our "Powers" took advantage of it as if it was an act of war.  We shouldn't have pretended to be surprised.  This was inevitible with all our financial and military involvement in the Near-Eastern struggless.  Not to mention all the previous attacks and attempts.  This goes way back before the Iranians challenged Carter to push the button.  You don't take sides in a gang war and not take a few pot shots.
 
The solution is not to solve the conspiratory debate.  The solution is to return America to its Constitution.  We have no moral right to allow our government to kill for oil or power.  I think a sincere act (not statements alone) demonstrating convincingly that America is henceforth neutral would virtually eliminate all the stupid terrorism.
 
Ken
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare

 

Quoting Tod Harter on Mon, 28 Dec 2009 09:42:20 -0500:

___Tod___
If you want to play conspiracy theory then you have
to posit the nature of and motive for the conspiracy.
Simply calling anything you don't like a conspiracy
and ignoring it is ridiculous.

And lets be realistic, who's likely to benefit from
discrediting AGW? Gosh, it wouldn't be THE OIL
COMPANIES THAT RUN THE FRIGGIN WORLD WOULD IT? So
really Scott, which conspiracy theory is more likely
to be true, yours or mine? The one that nets greedy
amoral bastards 100's of billions in profits or
the one that has no rational explanation at all?
-----

Instituting a yet bigger financial bubble(*),
and hoarding up the oil for the elites' own
use, would do for starters.

* Why "cap and trade"? Why not fund an Alaska-style
Citizens Dividend from any carbon tax?

Are there proposals to restrict more egregious
greenhouse gases, such as the SF6 of which
the military and power companies are enamored?

Scott


#11447 From: "Ken Larsen" <kencan@...>
Date: Sat Jan 9, 2010 6:09 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare
kencanslc
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
It's about fear, the purpose of global warming, swine flu, imminent asteroids, hurricanes, terrorism, economic collapse, etc., is to make us afraid.  Freedom requires trust and bravery.  Slavery requires fear.  Fear is their most powerful weapon against our freedom and prosperity.  Roosevelt was right when he said we had nothing to fear but fear itself.
 
The purpose of the war on Terrorism is to put fear into the hearts of Americans.  Thus, after a couple of buildings and a few thousand casulties from the actions of a couple of dozen idiots, we go crazy with fear, throw away our privacy rights with the Patriot Act, and find some excuse for intensive, useless military actions that kill tens of thousands and achieve nothing except to enrich Halliburton, etc. Then, with the fear of the economic meltdown, we are happy to give up our freedoms to control our own lives, giving up to the government the medical, automitive, banking, housing, etc. industries.  When we say give to government, let's understand that means giving up to those powers that control our government, as they become our masters and we become slaves.  It doesn't take conspiratorializm to see the obvious.  It is not relevant which idiots caused 9-11.  What matters is how our "Powers" took advantage of it as if it was an act of war.  We shouldn't have pretended to be surprised.  This was inevitible with all our financial and military involvement in the Near-Eastern struggless.  Not to mention all the previous attacks and attempts.  This goes way back before the Iranians challenged Carter to push the button.  You don't take sides in a gang war and not take a few pot shots.
 
The solution is not to solve the conspiratory debate.  The solution is to return America to its Constitution.  We have no moral right to allow our government to kill for oil or power.  I think a sincere act (not statements alone) demonstrating convincingly that America is henceforth neutral would virtually eliminate all the stupid terrorism.
 
Ken
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, January 08, 2010 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare

 

Quoting Tod Harter on Mon, 28 Dec 2009 09:42:20 -0500:

___Tod___
If you want to play conspiracy theory then you have
to posit the nature of and motive for the conspiracy.
Simply calling anything you don't like a conspiracy
and ignoring it is ridiculous.

And lets be realistic, who's likely to benefit from
discrediting AGW? Gosh, it wouldn't be THE OIL
COMPANIES THAT RUN THE FRIGGIN WORLD WOULD IT? So
really Scott, which conspiracy theory is more likely
to be true, yours or mine? The one that nets greedy
amoral bastards 100's of billions in profits or
the one that has no rational explanation at all?
-----

Instituting a yet bigger financial bubble(*),
and hoarding up the oil for the elites' own
use, would do for starters.

* Why "cap and trade"? Why not fund an Alaska-style
Citizens Dividend from any carbon tax?

Are there proposals to restrict more egregious
greenhouse gases, such as the SF6 of which
the military and power companies are enamored?

Scott


#11446 From: Ronald Regehr <regehr@...>
Date: Sat Jan 9, 2010 5:11 pm
Subject: Ice age threat?
regehr@...
Send Email Send Email
 

29. November 2009 10:00

Big freeze plunged Europe into ice age in months

In the film, ‘The Day After Tomorrow’ the world enters the icy grip of a new glacial period within the space of just a few weeks. Now new research shows that this scenario may not be so far from the truth after all.

William Patterson, from the University of Saskatchewan in Canada, and his colleagues have shown that switching off the North Atlantic circulation can force the Northern hemisphere into a mini ‘ice age’ in a matter of months. Previous work has indicated that this process would take tens of years.


Around 12,800 years ago the northern hemisphere was hit by a mini ice-age, known by scientists as the Younger Dryas, and nicknamed the ‘Big Freeze’, which lasted around 1300 years. Geological evidence shows that the Big Freeze was brought about by a sudden influx of freshwater, when the glacial Lake Agassiz in North America burst its banks and poured into the North Atlantic and Arctic Oceans. This vast pulse, a greater volume than all of North America’s Great Lakes combined, diluted the North Atlantic conveyor belt and brought it to a halt.


Without the warming influence of this ocean circulation temperatures across the Northern hemisphere plummeted, ice sheets grew and human civilisation fell apart.


Previous evidence from Greenland ice cores has indicated that this sudden change in climate occurred over the space of a decade or so. Now new data shows that the change was amazingly abrupt, taking place over the course of a few months, or a year or two at most. 


Patterson and his colleagues have created the highest resolution record of the ‘Big Freeze’ event to date, from a mud core taken from an ancient lake, Lough Monreach, in Ireland. Using a scalpel layers were sliced from the core, just 0.5mm thick, representing a time period of one to three months.


Carbon isotopes in each slice reveal how productive the lake was, while oxygen isotopes give a picture of temperature and rainfall. At the start of the ‘Big Freeze’ their new record shows that temperatures plummeted and lake productivity stopped over the course of just a few years. “It would be like taking Ireland today and moving it up to Svalbard, creating icy conditions in a very short period of time,” says Patterson, who presented the findings at the European Science Foundation BOREAS conference on humans in the Arctic, in Rovaniemi, Finland.


Meanwhile, their isotope record from the end of the Big Freeze shows that it took around two centuries for the lake and climate to recover, rather than the abrupt decade or so that ice cores indicate. “This makes sense because it would take time for the ocean and atmospheric circulation to turn on again,” says Patterson.


Looking ahead to the future Patterson says there is no reason why a ‘Big Freeze’ shouldn’t happen again. “If the Greenland ice sheet melted suddenly it would be catastrophic,” he says.


This study was part of a broad network of 38 individual research teams from  Europe, Russia, Canada and the USA forming the European Science Foundation EUROCORES programme ‘Histories from the North – environments, movements, narratives’ (BOREAS).  This highly interdisciplinary initiative brought together scientists from a wide range of disciplines including humanities, social, medical, environmental and climate sciences.

Notes to editors


For more information, images or to arrange interviews please contact
Chloe Kembery, ESF press office      
ckembery[at]esf.org  Tel +33 (0) 388-762-158 Cell +33 (0) 643-172-382 


William Patterson, University of Saskatchewan, Canada
geochemistry.usask.ca/bill.html

The European Science Foundation (ESF) is an independent, non-governmental organisation that promotes collaboration in scientific research, funding of research and science policy across Europe. Established in 1974, its members are 80 national funding bodies, research-performing agencies, academies and learned societies from 30 countries. Through its activities and influential membership the foundation has enabled cross-border cooperation in Europe and made major contributions to science globally.  The ESF covers humanities, social sciences, life, earth and environmental sciences, medical sciences, physical and engineering sciences. www.esf.org


EUROCORES (European Collaborative Research scheme) aims to enable researchers in different European countries to develop collaboration and scientific synergy in areas where European scale and scope are required to reach the critical mass necessary for top class science in a global context. The scheme provides a flexible framework which allows national basic research funding and performing organisations to join forces to support excellent European research in and across all scientific areas.

Covered in the media
New Scientist
The Sunday Times, UK
The Observer, UK



Media contact:

Ms. Chloe KemberyE-Mail

Science contact:

Professor William PattersonE-Mail


Category: Homepage, Media Centre, Press Releases 2009, Hum, EUROCORES

 

"Never in the history of the world has there been a situation so bad that the government couldn't make it worse."




#11445 From: Scott Bergeson <scottb@...>
Date: Sat Jan 9, 2010 3:34 am
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare
shbergeson
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Quoting Tod Harter on Mon, 28 Dec 2009 09:42:20 -0500:

___Tod___
If you want to play conspiracy theory then you have
to posit the nature of and motive for the conspiracy.
Simply calling anything you don't like a conspiracy
and ignoring it is ridiculous.

And lets be realistic, who's likely to benefit from
discrediting AGW? Gosh, it wouldn't be THE OIL
COMPANIES THAT RUN THE FRIGGIN WORLD WOULD IT? So
really Scott, which conspiracy theory is more likely
to be true, yours or mine? The one that nets greedy
amoral bastards 100's of billions in profits or
the one that has no rational explanation at all?
-----

Instituting a yet bigger financial bubble(*),
and hoarding up the oil for the elites' own
use, would do for starters.

* Why "cap and trade"? Why not fund an Alaska-style
Citizens Dividend from any carbon tax?

Are there proposals to restrict more egregious
greenhouse gases, such as the SF6 of which
the military and power companies are enamored?

Scott

#11444 From: Scott Bergeson <scottb@...>
Date: Sat Jan 9, 2010 3:16 am
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare
shbergeson
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Quoting Tod Harter on Mon, 28 Dec 2009 13:23:35 -0500:

___Tod___
Yeah, well, if people are utterly beyond the reach
of logic then nothing is lost because there's no hope
to start with. On the other hand there is the hope
that at SOME point BEFORE the water is lapping at
their doorstep they might wake up and listen. I know
its a long shot, but again what's the alternative,
bombing power plants? I mean the problem HAS
to get fixed. There is no option that includes
failing to do that which can ever be acceptable.
-----

Um, rising lake tends to be associated with global
cooling rather than warming. While that might make
the Great Basin more fertile (if forcing cooler
climate crops like fish and potatoes rather than
maize and cherries), the globe as a whole is more
productive during warming epochs.

Scott

#11443 From: Tod Harter <tharter@...>
Date: Fri Jan 8, 2010 7:43 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare.
tharter@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Awe, chill out! Where's the fun in THAT ;)

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 4:51 PM, <rchrdstvr@...> wrote:
 

In a message dated 1/7/2010 3:44:26 PM Mountain Standard Time, tharter@... writes:
So anyway, I don't know at this point who's disagreeing about what. lol.>>


Let's just lean back, have another shot, and chill out.

Richard






--
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.

#11442 From: rchrdstvr@...
Date: Thu Jan 7, 2010 5:51 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare.
ricksfolly
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
In a message dated 1/7/2010 3:44:26 PM Mountain Standard Time, tharter@... writes:
So anyway, I don't know at this point who's disagreeing about what. lol.>>


Let's just lean back, have another shot, and chill out.

Richard




#11441 From: Tod Harter <tharter@...>
Date: Thu Jan 7, 2010 10:43 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare.
tharter@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Yeah. I guess I'm not sure why I would have any problem agreeing with this statement. Since the case for AGW doesn't rest on or even really relate that much to icebergs what difference does it make. Of course there were few sources of CO2 100 yrs ago and guess what, the climate was cooler. Huh, sort of sounds like what, cause and effect maybe?...

So anyway, I don't know at this point who's disagreeing about what. lol.

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 4:16 PM, <rchrdstvr@...> wrote:

Yeah, but a hundred years ago, there were very few cars, trucks and no coal fired electrical generators. that's why the temperature reading was so low. BTW, there were breakaway iceburgs back then too... remember the Titanic? 


Richard





--
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.

#11440 From: rchrdstvr@...
Date: Thu Jan 7, 2010 5:16 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare.
ricksfolly
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
In a message dated 1/7/2010 1:47:50 PM Mountain Standard Time, scottb@... writes:

AGW
is not some wacky new theory that popped up one day
and everyone decided to believe in. Its a theory that
has solid physical science behind it and has been
evolved over a period of OVER 100 years. >>

Yeah, but a hundred years ago, there were very few cars, trucks and no coal fired electrical generators. that's why the temperature reading was so low. BTW, there were breakaway iceburgs back then too... remember the Titanic? 


Richard



#11439 From: Scott Bergeson <scottb@...>
Date: Thu Jan 7, 2010 8:41 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare.
shbergeson
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Quoting Tod Harter on Mon, 28 Dec 2009 21:44:39 -0500:

___Tod___
why I brought up Arrhenius in the first place. AGW
is not some wacky new theory that popped up one day
and everyone decided to believe in. Its a theory that
has solid physical science behind it and has been
evolved over a period of OVER 100 years. The whole
scientific community has been in agreement on this
thing for a LONG time. Of course there were people
casting a skeptical eye on it all along too. They
made no headway because they couldn't come up with
ANY solid evidence that stood up against it, period.

The objections that have been raised, by people equally
knowledgeable, have been analyzed and either they were
flawed or the evidence supporting them has since been
shown not to prove what they thought it proved. Often
because it was not good enough evidence, or it turned
out their ideas about the data were simply wrong.

And if you notice as well, there have been times when
various data has been shown to be wrong or models didn't
pan out and THAT has always been accepted and they went
on. It never did any more than shave a sliver off. Equally
there have been just as many times it went the other
way and new analysis shows there were underestimates.

when you look at all the IPCC models for CO2 emissions and
see that reality has been consistently FOUR TIMES WORSE
AND ACCELERATING then yup, objectivity demands concern.

Add CO2 to the air the earth heats up. CO2 IS
being added to the air, ergo the earth is heating
up. You might as well argue against gravity.
-----

Directly addresses the Arrhenius model, ΔF = α ln(C/C0)

Scott

Subject: John Coleman, Weather channel founder on what is REALLY going
on.......

Mind you, don't freeze!
Click on the link below to see what a liar the global
warmists are, including our own Prime Minister K'Rudd.
[Kevin Michael Rudd (born 21 September 1957) is the
26th and current Prime Minister of Australia and federal
leader of the centre-left Australian Labor Party (ALP).]
As for Al Gore, he should be arrested for fraud,
he is simply a rogue Con man!

From: Lifeforce <lifeforce43@...>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 11:20 PM

VERY INTERESTING AND WELL WORTH VIEWING,
presented by a weather expert, John Coleman,
founder of the Weather Channel. Pass this one along.

http://www.kusi.com/home/78477082.html?video=pop&t=a

#11438 From: "Mark M" <m.mk@...>
Date: Thu Jan 7, 2010 3:11 am
Subject: Re: Mysterious Death of Mike Connell揖arl Rove痴 Election Thief
giese_markm
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
''Curiously, for a man as well connected to the very top echelons of the
Republican Party as Connell was, no GOP officials, or George W. Bush, or John
McCain, or Karl Rove, to my knowledge, ever issued a public statement upon his
tragic death.''

Apparently they didn't even publicly comment as much as you.


--- In ICCPolitics@yahoogroups.com, Tod Harter <tharter@...> wrote:
>
> Yeah, what a tragic accident that was, and JUST before he was scheduled to
> give some more testimony to a grand jury. Tragic. Well, you know how it is,
> flying is dangerous...
>
> On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Mark M Giese <m.mk@...> wrote:
>
> > If the Bushes end up not liking you, don't fly your own plane. Compare the
> > Wellstone plane death for one.
> >
> >
> > Mysterious Death of Mike Connell—Karl Rove's Election Thief
> >
> > Karl Rove's chief IT consultant, Mike Connell—who was facing subpoena in
> > connection with 2004 Presidential election fraud in Ohio—mysteriously died
> > in a private plane crash in 2008.  Connell was allegedly the central figure
> > in a longstanding plot to electronically flip votes to Republicans.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > According to the NTSB report, and confirmed via transcripts and tapes
> > received via FOIA requests, Connell radioed to ask "whether there were any
> > reports of icing, to which air traffic control [ATC] responded that there
> > were no reports."
> >
> > The tapes and transcripts indicate that something suddenly happened up
> > there, as his last words to ATC, recorded on tape, were a declaration of
> > emergency followed quickly by "Oh, fuck," before he was not heard from
> > again.
> >
> > Curiously, for a man as well connected to the very top echelons of the
> > Republican Party as Connell was, no GOP officials, or George W. Bush, or
> > John McCain, or Karl Rove, to my knowledge, ever issued a public statement
> > upon his tragic death.
> >
> >
> >
http://www.projectcensored.org/top-stories/articles/12-mysterious-death-of-mike-\
connellkarl-roves-election-thief/
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > Weight Loss Program
> > Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
> >
> >
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=-qn4eDBsc2AVKpn8cR_UFwAAJ1BdI6aYp2\
k5kpiCgVSqudkXAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAAAAA=
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself.
> Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
>

#11437 From: "Mark M" <m.mk@...>
Date: Thu Jan 7, 2010 3:09 am
Subject: Re: Churchill, what a guy!
giese_markm
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
Here's Bowe Robert Bergdahl, US soldier captured in Afghanistan, speaking on a
video made by his Taliban captors: He said he had been well-treated, contrasting
his fate to that of prisoners held in US military prisons, such as the infamous
Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. "I bear witness I was continuously treated as a human
being, with dignity, and I had nobody deprive me of my clothes and take pictures
of me naked. I had no dogs barking at me or biting me as my country has done to
their Muslim prisoners in the jails that I have mentioned."5

Of course the Taliban provided the script, but what was the script based on?
What inspired them to use such words and images, to make such references?

http://killinghope.org/bblum6/aer77.html

--- In ICCPolitics@yahoogroups.com, Ronald Regehr <regehr@...> wrote:
>
> Hmm.... so Churchill was correct in his analysis of Islam, incorrect
> in his thoughts about Ghandi.  Batting .500 ain't too bad in most
> circles--and certainly better than the current pretender.
> Ron
> On Dec 13, 2009, at 3:13 PM, Mark M or MkM wrote:
>
> > In 1899, Winston Churchill wrote the following:
> >
> > "How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its
> > votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a
> > man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic
> > apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident
> > habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of
> > commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of
> > the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life
> > of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.
> > The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man
> > as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine,
> > must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam
> > has ceased to be a great power among men.
> > "Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become
> > the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but
> > the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of
> > those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the
> > world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and
> > proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central
> > Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not
> > that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the
> > science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of
> > modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome."
> >
> > --- From The River War: An Historical Account of the Reconquest of
> > the Soudan (1899), Volume II, pp. 248-250.
> >
> > Later on November 4, 1920, Winston attended a dinner party where he
> >
> > ". . . was in his best form, ragging about Gandhi, who he said ought
> > to be laid, bound hand and foot, at the gates of Delhi and then
> > trampled on by an enormous elephant with the new Viceroy seated on
> > its back."
> >
> > --- From Old Men Forget by Duff Cooper, p. 103.
> >
> > --- In ICCPolitics@yahoogroups.com, Tod Harter <tharter@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Its always appalled me that Winston Churchill has been treated so
> > kindly by
> > > history and is so widely respected. While his aims may have been
> > largely
> > > aimed at the general good, his methods were no better than those
> > of a Stalin
> > > or a Hitler. He certainly had no qualms about dealing harshly with
> > the truth,
> > > the law, or innocent lives.
> > >
> > > He did have one thing right though, the rich nations certainly
> > have much to
> > > fear from the rule of the rest. A day of recconning is coming,
> > sooner rather
> > > than later I fear, and it will be OUR recconning with OUR crimes...
> > >
> > > On Wednesday 03 March 2004 3:45 pm, Mark M Giese wrote:
> > > > Winston Churchill in his reflections on the shape of the post-
> > World War
> > > > II world:
> > > >
> > > > "The government of the world must be entrusted to satisfied
> > > > nations,
> > > > who wished nothing more for themselves than what they
> > > > had [a lot of colonies and the resources therein for instance --
> > MkM]. If
> > > > the
> > > > world-government were in the hands of hungry nations,
> > > > there would
> > > > always be danger. But none of us had any reason to seek
> > > > for anything
> > > > more. The peace would be kept by peoples who lived in
> > > > their own way and were not ambitious. Our power placed us above
> > the rest.
> > > > We were
> > > > like rich men dwelling at peace within their
> > > > habitations."14
> > > >
> > > > 14. _The Second World War, Vol 5_, 1951, p.382
> > > >
> > > > as quoted in _Rogue States: The Rule of Force in World Affairs_,
> > Noam
> > > > Chomsky, 2000
> > >
> > > --
> > > Tod Harter
> > > Giant Electronic Brain
> > > http://www.giantelectronicbrain.com
> > >
> > > Great minds discuss ideas,
> > > average minds discuss events,
> > > small minds discuss people.
> > > -- Laurence J. Peter
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> "Never in the history of the world has there been a situation so bad
> that the government couldn't make it worse."
>

#11436 From: Tod Harter <tharter@...>
Date: Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:23 am
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare.
tharter@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Must be the law of conservation of skepticism, lol. Apparently I didn't expend it on the SCIENCE, so I had some left over for poor old Al... ;)

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Ronald Regehr <regehr@...> wrote:
 

Geez, Tod, you're not suggesting a politician might be less than 100% honest, are you?!



--
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.

#11435 From: Tod Harter <tharter@...>
Date: Thu Dec 31, 2009 6:21 am
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare.
tharter@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Oh, yes, it would be FAR FAR better to just have everyone publish any old thing and then what? We could all just pick whichever theory we like best?

If all scientists are "lemmings" then how come they keep coming up with so many new things? If they all just followed someone else then wouldn't they just go around in circles forever? The validity of the scientific method is made apparent every time you turn on a light, get in your car, make a phone call, or heat something in the microwave, just to name a few small examples. No amount of calling people lemmings or any other names you may care to use changes a thing. Science works.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 6:23 PM, <rchrdstvr@...> wrote:
 

In a message dated 12/30/2009 2:47:44 PM Mountain Standard Time, tharter@... writes:

I actually have paid that much attention to Al Gore. He's not a scientist and I don't need to listen to his opinion when I can read the opinions and actual research of people that ARE climate scientists and are peer reviewed. >>

Peer review only means support your peers. Scientist lemmings hanging together is the only reason the global warming fiasco got traction in the first place.


Richard 








--
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.

#11434 From: rchrdstvr@...
Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:23 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare.
ricksfolly
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
In a message dated 12/30/2009 2:47:44 PM Mountain Standard Time, tharter@... writes:

I actually have paid that much attention to Al Gore. He's not a scientist and I don't need to listen to his opinion when I can read the opinions and actual research of people that ARE climate scientists and are peer reviewed. >>

Peer review only means support your peers. Scientist lemmings hanging together is the only reason the global warming fiasco got traction in the first place.


Richard 






#11433 From: Ronald Regehr <regehr@...>
Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:52 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare.
regehr@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Geez, Tod, you're not suggesting a politician might be less than 100% honest, are you?!
On Dec 30, 2009, at 2:47 PM, Tod Harter wrote:

Oh my. So if Al Gore says "X" then if "X" is exaggerated or not true then AGW itself is all a bunch of crap? What kind of logic is that? If I say that Libertarianism will make potatoes magically grow in your garden does that say ANYTHING at all about Libertarianism or does it just say that I'm an idiot? 

And Al Gore AFAIK never said anything about icebergs only existing because of global warming. Not that I actually have paid that much attention to Al Gore. He's not a scientist and I don't need to listen to his opinion when I can read the opinions and actual research of people that ARE climate scientists and are peer reviewed. I'm certainly not asking anyone else to pay attention to him either. 

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 4:23 PM, <rchrdstvr@cs.com> wrote:
 

In a message dated 12/30/2009 1:52:47 PM Mountain Standard Time, tharter@gmail.com writes: 

Show me where anyone has ever claimed that icebergs are caused by global warming (some may be, but nobody has EVER claimed they all were or even most of them). >>

Al Gore for one. He convinced millions with his overexaggerated claims over and over again on TV and movies. 

Richard





-- 
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.


"Never in the history of the world has there been a situation so bad that the government couldn't make it worse."




#11432 From: Tod Harter <tharter@...>
Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 9:47 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare.
tharter@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Oh my. So if Al Gore says "X" then if "X" is exaggerated or not true then AGW itself is all a bunch of crap? What kind of logic is that? If I say that Libertarianism will make potatoes magically grow in your garden does that say ANYTHING at all about Libertarianism or does it just say that I'm an idiot?

And Al Gore AFAIK never said anything about icebergs only existing because of global warming. Not that I actually have paid that much attention to Al Gore. He's not a scientist and I don't need to listen to his opinion when I can read the opinions and actual research of people that ARE climate scientists and are peer reviewed. I'm certainly not asking anyone else to pay attention to him either.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 4:23 PM, <rchrdstvr@...> wrote:
 

In a message dated 12/30/2009 1:52:47 PM Mountain Standard Time, tharter@... writes:

Show me where anyone has ever claimed that icebergs are caused by global warming (some may be, but nobody has EVER claimed they all were or even most of them). >>

Al Gore for one. He convinced millions with his overexaggerated claims over and over again on TV and movies.

Richard




--
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.

#11431 From: rchrdstvr@...
Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:23 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare.
ricksfolly
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
In a message dated 12/30/2009 1:52:47 PM Mountain Standard Time, tharter@... writes:

Show me where anyone has ever claimed that icebergs are caused by global warming (some may be, but nobody has EVER claimed they all were or even most of them). >>

Al Gore for one. He convinced millions with his overexaggerated claims over and over again on TV and movies.

Richard


#11430 From: Tod Harter <tharter@...>
Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:43 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare.
tharter@...
Send Email Send Email
 
LOL, there were NO icebergs before global warming? Come on now. This is absurd. Show me where anyone has ever claimed that icebergs are caused by global warming (some may be, but nobody has EVER claimed they all were or even most of them).

If someone ever made that claim then I'd be happy to see it. Still, unless its a claim that is being made by SCIENCE and not idiots it isn't worth much.

This kind of thing is just straw man arguments Richard.

On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 3:33 PM, <rchrdstvr@...> wrote:
 

In a message dated 12/30/2009 7:20:53 AM Mountain Standard Time, tharter@... writes:

These are the things that observation and GCMs are designed to answer. >>

They can start by explaining how the floating iceberg broke loose that sank the Titanic, long before global warming was a issue.

Richard




--
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.

#11429 From: rchrdstvr@...
Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:33 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare.
ricksfolly
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
In a message dated 12/30/2009 7:20:53 AM Mountain Standard Time, tharter@... writes:

These are the things that observation and GCMs are designed to answer. >>

They can start by explaining how the floating iceberg broke loose that sank the Titanic, long before global warming was a issue.

Richard


#11428 From: Tod Harter <tharter@...>
Date: Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:20 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare.
tharter@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Oh, I agree that we don't know EVERYTHING, but that is not the same thing as knowing NOTHING. This is yet another thing that people don't usually grasp about science. Because it is largely based on observation it is VERY rare that all of a sudden the things predicted by a theory go from night to day.

For example, we know that gravity works. ANY theory of physics that anyone was to put forward would HAVE to explain gravity and that explanation would have to be very very similar to the existing explanations. At least it would have to predict pretty much the same things because those are things we actually see in the actual real world that is being explained.

Thus science is sort of like cartography was 500 years ago. We KNOW Africa exists, we know the shape of it more or less and we know where it is relative to the other continents. Maybe we don't know squat about what's beyond the coast, but no new expedition is suddenly going to discover that there's a land bridge to Antarctica after 10 other expeditions have already sailed all the way around.

AGW is in a similar situation. There just aren't any more explanations for these changes beyond the ones we've identified. Either there is more heat hitting the earth, or less leaving for space, there really aren't any other alternatives. We KNOW as a scientifically observable fact that more CO2 keeps in more heat. What is missing from this picture?

What we DON'T know is exactly what happens as the earth warms. Will it cause effects that will tend to accelerate or reduce the heating? How long will CO2 stay in the air? How much CO2 is removed every year and how will that change if the world heats up? THESE are the questions. These are the things that observation and GCMs are designed to answer.

The problem is if we do NOTHING until the day we're certain that will be much much too late. Instead we're 95% sure now, and any economist will tell you that if you're 95% sure you can save a massive amount of money by spending some other smaller amount, then its a pretty good idea. Especially when the rates of return are as high as they are for efficiency and renewable energy. Remember these are all sensible ideas ANYWAY, so why are you resisting them?

On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 5:14 PM, <rchrdstvr@...> wrote:
 

In a message dated 12/28/2009 7:45:02 PM Mountain Standard Time, tharter@... writes: >>

I'm perfectly well objective, sorry to say. I don't think all of everyone's worst fears are necessarily going to come true either, but even the middle of the road is something we need to deal with now. And when you look at all the IPCC models for CO2 emissions and see that reality has been consistently FOUR TIMES WORSE AND ACCELERATING then yup, objectivity demands concern. >>

There's no such thing as be all and end all because there are processes still out that haven't been discovered yet that may or not affect global warming, being sure about anything is naive, especially if all too human scientists say it's true. This bloody massacre of helpless Sunnis arabs, based on half truths, speculation and over exaggerations, should give you some idea how much out of touch with reality most people are.

Richard


  




--
The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.

#11427 From: rchrdstvr@...
Date: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:14 pm
Subject: Re: [ICCPolitics].Global warming scare.
ricksfolly
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email
 
In a message dated 12/28/2009 7:45:02 PM Mountain Standard Time, tharter@... writes: >>

I'm perfectly well objective, sorry to say. I don't think all of everyone's worst fears are necessarily going to come true either, but even the middle of the road is something we need to deal with now. And when you look at all the IPCC models for CO2 emissions and see that reality has been consistently FOUR TIMES WORSE AND ACCELERATING then yup, objectivity demands concern. >>

There's no such thing as be all and end all because there are processes still out that haven't been discovered yet that may or not affect global warming, being sure about anything is naive, especially if all too human scientists say it's true. This bloody massacre of helpless Sunnis arabs, based on half truths, speculation and over exaggerations, should give you some idea how much out of touch with reality most people are.

Richard


  


Messages 11427 - 11456 of 11456   Newest  |  < Newer  |  Older >  |  Oldest
Advanced
Add to My Yahoo!      XML What's This?

Copyright © 2010 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help