----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:06 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

Opps.    Please see my correction/comments below in GREEN to my original email.

 

LaVerne

----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:29 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Mike:

 

Back in the 70's, a study was done in Houston by HUD (I think) regarding attic fans versus other types of attic ventilation and the results came back showing the energy saved (in air conditioned homes) by attic ventilation fans for removing heat didn't offset the amount of energy they used.  So this study showed there was no advantage to powered attic ventilation.  This would also apply to PV powered attic ventilation fans.  It clearly showed that when it came to ventilating attics in Houston, continuous ridge and soffit ventilation performed best.

 

(Assuming you are using gas for heating** and that your furnace is located in the attic where it needs combustion air supply from outside), continuous ridge vents balanced with soffit ventilation proportionally located around the entire perimeter of your house is your best option.  If you have hip roofs, you will have to run the ridge vents down the hips.  I would use Cor-A-Vent for the ridge and hip vents, following details you can get from their website.  The soffits vents can be any kind (even galvanized  hardware cloth).  They must can be sized to balance the air admittance into the attic so that the free inflow air flow area is equal to or greater than the free exit area of the ridge vent area.  In other words, don't put twice as much soffit venting on the west side versus the east side of your roof.  It has to be evenly balanced around the house.  Otherwise, you can get water intrusion into your attic during blowing rains, not matter whose ridge vent system is used. 

 

Also, be sure to include insulation baffles in your plans so that the air path from the soffit vents to the ridge vents isn't blocked by insulation.

 

If your house is all electric, you may want to consider insulating at the roof and eliminating attic ventilation all together, as a lot of moisture is added to the interior of your house from having ventilated attics.  In this area of the country, approx. half of your air-conditioning bill comes from just removing the moisture for the air.  While all this moisture obviously doesn't just come through your ceilings, sheet rock and insulation are not going to stop attic moisture from diffusing down into the interior space.  So eliminating the moisture from this source will not only help reduce your energy bill, but can also provide a healthier indoor environment.  Since dust mites and molds thrive in high humidity environments, eliminating as many possible sources for humidity intrusion into the interior of our homes is prudent.  However, insulating at the underside of the roof will cost more initially.  

 

Should you follow the ventilated attic path, if you haven't already stapled a radiant barrier to the underside of your rafters or considered some other means for adding a radiant barrier to the underside of your roof, it should be considered a major component in your strategy to improve your home's performance.  If you decide to insulate with spray-in foam insulation on the underside of the roof deck, then disregard the use of the radiant barrier.

 

Hope this helps. 

 

LaVerne A. Williams, AIA, LEED AP
architect & building ecologist
LaVerne@...
ENVIRONMENT ASSOCIATES, Architects & Consultants
5828 Langfield Road
Houston, TX 77092-1429
713.528.0000
866.815.2527 toll free
www.environmentassoc.com
30 Years of Leadership in Healthy, High Performance Homes / Green Architecture
Design Counseling / Consulting / Architectural Design / Construction Documents / Construction Administration Services

 

**If the water heater is gas, make sure you don't eliminate it's outside air supply for combustion in your insulation /attic sealing efforts.

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Schmitt

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 7:20 PM

Subject: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Hello,

 

I guess I have to start somewhere..So I will start with attic fans.

 

I live up near Cut-n-Shoot in the woods and I don’t get enough wind to see the old style turbines spin on my roof. I have added more sofit vents and still doesn’t seem to get them moving. So instead of replacing the turbins with new ones, Im looking into changing them out with 2 solar powered attic fans to help cool down the attic. I’m trying to find small PV projects to start with and work up to the bigger ones later after I get the house better insulated.

 

Right now this 2 story house is 2200 sq feet with the highest electric bill was at $134.00 this summer. I have been graphing my daily power usage and the highest was 82 KWh for one day. All the bulbs have been replaced with the Compact FL bulbs (60w version).  The attic has to have more insulation added. I was able to get insulation in 30% of the attic this summer. All the A/C ducts are in the way…will finish up this winter. The windows in this house are a step above the aluminum frame. They have double panes but are worthless….they will have to be updated soon. The good thing about this house is that the previous owner paid the money to have the interior walls insulated as well as the exterior but for some reason did a half rear job in the attic. The 30% I put in up there was to cover the corner that didn’t have any. After updating some appliances (washer/dryer, fridge and dish washer) I should be able to move up to the bigger projects.

 

Some questions I have are:

 

1. At what point (daily KWh usage) is a good point to start adding PV systems. Im thinking in terms of a hobby because off the A/C systems in Houston… you can’t really go off grid or can you? How does it work with the A/C power usage?
2. Where can I get some quality attic fans? What CFM is a good flow to have here in Houston?
3. Any Ideas on how to hook up a solar water heater that has the water heater situated on the first floor in the middle of the house? Can I use a plain insulated tank in the attic or do I need to tie into another water heater?
4. Anything else I’m missing?

 

Thanks in advance for your time!!!

 

Mike Schmitt

 

 

 

 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Schmitt

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 7:20 PM

Subject: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Hello,

 

I guess I have to start somewhere..So I will start with attic fans.

 

I live up near Cut-n-Shoot in the woods and I don’t get enough wind to see the old style turbines spin on my roof. I have added more sofit vents and still doesn’t seem to get them moving. So instead of replacing the turbins with new ones, Im looking into changing them out with 2 solar powered attic fans to help cool down the attic. I’m trying to find small PV projects to start with and work up to the bigger ones later after I get the house better insulated.

 

Right now this 2 story house is 2200 sq feet with the highest electric bill was at $134.00 this summer. I have been graphing my daily power usage and the highest was 82 KWh for one day. All the bulbs have been replaced with the Compact FL bulbs (60w version).  The attic has to have more insulation added. I was able to get insulation in 30% of the attic this summer. All the A/C ducts are in the way…will finish up this winter. The windows in this house are a step above the aluminum frame. They have double panes but are worthless….they will have to be updated soon. The good thing about this house is that the previous owner paid the money to have the interior walls insulated as well as the exterior but for some reason did a half rear job in the attic. The 30% I put in up there was to cover the corner that didn’t have any. After updating some appliances (washer/dryer, fridge and dish washer) I should be able to move up to the bigger projects.

 

Some questions I have are:

 

1. At what point (daily KWh usage) is a good point to start adding PV systems. Im thinking in terms of a hobby because off the A/C systems in Houston… you can’t really go off grid or can you? How does it work with the A/C power usage?
2. Where can I get some quality attic fans? What CFM is a good flow to have here in Houston?
3. Any Ideas on how to hook up a solar water heater that has the water heater situated on the first floor in the middle of the house? Can I use a plain insulated tank in the attic or do I need to tie into another water heater?
4. Anything else I’m missing?

 

Thanks in advance for your time!!!

 

Mike Schmitt

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: John Miggins

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 5:30 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

Mike, we install lots of SOLAR powered attic fans and I can tell you that they do save you money because they have no ongoing cost to run and reduce the attic temperature of homes from 20 to 30 degrees.(But there is initial cost and lifecycle cost issues.  What is their life span?)  Show me the tests that prove this much temperature drop along with acceptable life cycle costs and I will become an advocate of solar powered attic ventilation fans.)    I don't see how this cannot save you money on cooling your home in the summer.  It also helps reduce moisture in the attic which can cause other problems. (Let's think about this.  Generally, let's hope the air outside the attic is more humid than the air already in the attic, (an exception perhaps being after a dry cold front comes through) otherwise there is a basic construction or operation problem here.  So I don't see how bringing in more humid outside air is going to make the attic less humid.)  Soffit vents to create bottom to top air flow are essential.  My experience with ridge vents and soffet vents is that if there is not a suction or motor pulling the air out they do very little good. (That's the beauty of passive ventilation systems.  They work by creating a laminar-like flow below the roof deck that is spread out over a large area.  Plus it is removing the hottest air....the air right below the roof deck.  It's not like measuring the concentrated flow of air near a fan. Passive ridge vents don't require any generated energy to run them, solar or otherwise, other than the heat of the sun on the roof to create a thermal chimney effect, i.e., hot air rises to create a draft.  This draft is enhanced when there is a breeze and the flow of the breeze over the ridges creates a suction throught the Venturi effect.)   Take a cigarette in the attic and check air flow before and after attic fans, it is a good way to test real world conditions.  (When I did smoke a long time ago, I could always show my clients how the draft was working with ridge & soffit vents.  The only time it didn't was when the ridge and soffit vents were not installed properly.......or it was nighttime.)

 

 It is common sense and I don't know if they were talking about attic fans that ventillate from the living space or from the attic in the mentioned study but if you have a 130 degree oven (your unventillated attic) over your living space and most homes have their AC vents running through this hot space that this heat transfers to your living space and to your AC.  I personally have measured the temp of the air coming out of AC vents in attics and have seen a 2 to 3 degree difference within hours of installing solar attic fans.  (2 or 3 degrees?  You said 20 to 30 degrees in your 1st sentence.  Which is it?)

I have also had customers tell me that they used to keep thermostats at 74 and now, with attic fans and a cooler attic can keep their thermostat at 77.  Several repeat sales.

 

 Not sure that solar attic (crawl space) ventillation units were around in the 70's so not sure what was included in the aforementioned study 35  years ago but I have hundreds of customers that will testify that they are a good investment and have reduced their electric bill, especially in the summer. (They weren't available then.  Especially if there is a moisture problem with a crawl space, this is a good application.  However, the source of the moisture should be addressed and eliminated if possible due to health concerns)  We put thermostats on the solar attic fans to cut on at 80 degrees and cut off at 70 to save heat in the winter.   You be the judge. 

I agree that radiant barrier is a good investment as well, keep the heat out in the first place and keeps your heat in. 

 

 

Solar hot water can interface with existing water heaters by adding a preheat tank that captures the hot solution from the roof panels (located in the sun) and preheats the cold water going into your existing water heater.  It is better to add a new tank as well but that is not necessary.  (I concur.  I especially like passive solar water heating systems that include the storage tank.  No freeze concerns as long as the solar collector has a drain down provision.  They do present some structural concerns and may require some additional support.  I do not, however, recommend mounting any type of solar system on a composition shingle roof, because of the roof will have to be replaced long before the solar system and removing and reinstalling a solar system is too costly for most folks.  This is the main reason why you don't see any solar systems from the 70's & 80's still on rooftops in Houston, as there were tens of thousands, if not more, installed.)

 

We have units in stock if you are interested contact me offline they are easy to install yourself if needed.  Houston is an ideal market for this as it is hot 8 months out of the year.  (Did you purchase David Sawchak's stock?)

 

regards

 

 

John Miggins
Harvest Solar & Wind Power
"renewable solutions to everyday needs"
www.harvest-energy.com
Phone/Fax 918-743-2299
Cell: 918-521-6223

----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:06 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

Opps.    Please see my correction/comments below in GREEN to my original email.

 

LaVerne

----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:29 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Mike:

 

Back in the 70's, a study was done in Houston by HUD (I think) regarding attic fans versus other types of attic ventilation and the results came back showing the energy saved (in air conditioned homes) by attic ventilation fans for removing heat didn't offset the amount of energy they used.  So this study showed there was no advantage to powered attic ventilation.  This would also apply to PV powered attic ventilation fans.  It clearly showed that when it came to ventilating attics in Houston, continuous ridge and soffit ventilation performed best.

 

(Assuming you are using gas for heating** and that your furnace is located in the attic where it needs combustion air supply from outside), continuous ridge vents balanced with soffit ventilation proportionally located around the entire perimeter of your house is your best option.  If you have hip roofs, you will have to run the ridge vents down the hips.  I would use Cor-A-Vent for the ridge and hip vents, following details you can get from their website.  The soffits vents can be any kind (even galvanized  hardware cloth).  They must can be sized to balance the air admittance into the attic so that the free inflow air flow area is equal to or greater than the free exit area of the ridge vent area.  In other words, don't put twice as much soffit venting on the west side versus the east side of your roof.  It has to be evenly balanced around the house.  Otherwise, you can get water intrusion into your attic during blowing rains, not matter whose ridge vent system is used. 

 

Also, be sure to include insulation baffles in your plans so that the air path from the soffit vents to the ridge vents isn't blocked by insulation.

 

If your house is all electric, you may want to consider insulating at the roof and eliminating attic ventilation all together, as a lot of moisture is added to the interior of your house from having ventilated attics.  In this area of the country, approx. half of your air-conditioning bill comes from just removing the moisture for the air.  While all this moisture obviously doesn't just come through your ceilings, sheet rock and insulation are not going to stop attic moisture from diffusing down into the interior space.  So eliminating the moisture from this source will not only help reduce your energy bill, but can also provide a healthier indoor environment.  Since dust mites and molds thrive in high humidity environments, eliminating as many possible sources for humidity intrusion into the interior of our homes is prudent.  However, insulating at the underside of the roof will cost more initially.  

 

Should you follow the ventilated attic path, if you haven't already stapled a radiant barrier to the underside of your rafters or considered some other means for adding a radiant barrier to the underside of your roof, it should be considered a major component in your strategy to improve your home's performance.  If you decide to insulate with spray-in foam insulation on the underside of the roof deck, then disregard the use of the radiant barrier.

 

Hope this helps. 

 

LaVerne A. Williams, AIA, LEED AP
architect & building ecologist
LaVerne@...
ENVIRONMENT ASSOCIATES, Architects & Consultants
5828 Langfield Road
Houston, TX 77092-1429
713.528.0000
866.815.2527 toll free
www.environmentassoc.com
30 Years of Leadership in Healthy, High Performance Homes / Green Architecture
Design Counseling / Consulting / Architectural Design / Construction Documents / Construction Administration Services

 

**If the water heater is gas, make sure you don't eliminate it's outside air supply for combustion in your insulation /attic sealing efforts.

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Schmitt

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 7:20 PM

Subject: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Hello,

 

I guess I have to start somewhere..So I will start with attic fans.

 

I live up near Cut-n-Shoot in the woods and I don’t get enough wind to see the old style turbines spin on my roof. I have added more sofit vents and still doesn’t seem to get them moving. So instead of replacing the turbins with new ones, Im looking into changing them out with 2 solar powered attic fans to help cool down the attic. I’m trying to find small PV projects to start with and work up to the bigger ones later after I get the house better insulated.

 

Right now this 2 story house is 2200 sq feet with the highest electric bill was at $134.00 this summer. I have been graphing my daily power usage and the highest was 82 KWh for one day. All the bulbs have been replaced with the Compact FL bulbs (60w version).  The attic has to have more insulation added. I was able to get insulation in 30% of the attic this summer. All the A/C ducts are in the way…will finish up this winter. The windows in this house are a step above the aluminum frame. They have double panes but are worthless….they will have to be updated soon. The good thing about this house is that the previous owner paid the money to have the interior walls insulated as well as the exterior but for some reason did a half rear job in the attic. The 30% I put in up there was to cover the corner that didn’t have any. After updating some appliances (washer/dryer, fridge and dish washer) I should be able to move up to the bigger projects.

 

Some questions I have are:

 

1. At what point (daily KWh usage) is a good point to start adding PV systems. Im thinking in terms of a hobby because off the A/C systems in Houston… you can’t really go off grid or can you? How does it work with the A/C power usage?
2. Where can I get some quality attic fans? What CFM is a good flow to have here in Houston?
3. Any Ideas on how to hook up a solar water heater that has the water heater situated on the first floor in the middle of the house? Can I use a plain insulated tank in the attic or do I need to tie into another water heater?
4. Anything else I’m missing?

 

Thanks in advance for your time!!!

 

Mike Schmitt

 

 

 

 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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10:25pm, Environment Associates Architects wrote:

>
> See my comments in green below.

FWIW, some of us read our mail in text-only (no HTML) formats, and others
may be vision impaired and have text-to-speech or braile readers.
The point is that putting your comments in color makes them impossible to
pick out for some people. The most universal way (and the only way
guaranteed to be understood by any reader (human or machine)) to make
comments in an email is to put the comments on separate lines below the
line(s) you are commenting on.

I'd like to know what your comments are, but I can't pick them out from the
other text...

Paul Archer


>
> LaVerne A. Williams, AIA, LEED AP
> architect & building ecologist
> LaVerne@...
> ENVIRONMENT ASSOCIATES, Architects & Consultants
> 5828 Langfield Road
> Houston, TX 77092-1429
> 713.528.0000
> 866.815.2527 toll free
> www.environmentassoc.com
> 30 Years of Leadership in Healthy, High Performance Homes / Green Architecture
> Design Counseling / Consulting / Architectural Design / Construction Documents
/ Construction Administration Services

----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 10:25 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

John:

 

See my comments in green below.  Also, what most people may not realize is that I don't sell any construction products, building equipment, solar, alternative or conventional energy products, so there is no vested interest in the recommendations I make.  In other words, I don't make any profit from the sale of the stuff I recommend.  Nor do I accept any "referral fee"  compensation from those who do manufacturer or sell the products I make in my recommendations.  I do this because I want all of my clients to know I am looking out for their best interests, not how much money I might pocket from what I recommend for their particular situation.  If for some reason you don't think I am up to date with what is available out there, please educate me, as I would want my clients (and subsequently you) to benefit from superior technology and design. 

 

LaVerne A. Williams, AIA, LEED AP
architect & building ecologist
LaVerne@...
ENVIRONMENT ASSOCIATES, Architects & Consultants
5828 Langfield Road
Houston, TX 77092-1429
713.528.0000
866.815.2527 toll free
www.environmentassoc.com
30 Years of Leadership in Healthy, High Performance Homes / Green Architecture
Design Counseling / Consulting / Architectural Design / Construction Documents / Construction Administration Services

----- Original Message -----

From: John Miggins

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 5:30 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

Mike, we install lots of SOLAR powered attic fans and I can tell you that they do save you money because they have no ongoing cost to run and reduce the attic temperature of homes from 20 to 30 degrees.(But there is initial cost and lifecycle cost issues.  What is their life span?)  Show me the tests that prove this much temperature drop along with acceptable life cycle costs and I will become an advocate of solar powered attic ventilation fans.)    I don't see how this cannot save you money on cooling your home in the summer.  It also helps reduce moisture in the attic which can cause other problems. (Let's think about this.  Generally, let's hope the air outside the attic is more humid than the air already in the attic, (an exception perhaps being after a dry cold front comes through) otherwise there is a basic construction or operation problem here.  So I don't see how bringing in more humid outside air is going to make the attic less humid.)  Soffit vents to create bottom to top air flow are essential.  My experience with ridge vents and soffet vents is that if there is not a suction or motor pulling the air out they do very little good. (That's the beauty of passive ventilation systems.  They work by creating a laminar-like flow below the roof deck that is spread out over a large area.  Plus it is removing the hottest air....the air right below the roof deck.  It's not like measuring the concentrated flow of air near a fan. Passive ridge vents don't require any generated energy to run them, solar or otherwise, other than the heat of the sun on the roof to create a thermal chimney effect, i.e., hot air rises to create a draft.  This draft is enhanced when there is a breeze and the flow of the breeze over the ridges creates a suction throught the Venturi effect.)   Take a cigarette in the attic and check air flow before and after attic fans, it is a good way to test real world conditions.  (When I did smoke a long time ago, I could always show my clients how the draft was working with ridge & soffit vents.  The only time it didn't was when the ridge and soffit vents were not installed properly.......or it was nighttime.)

 

 It is common sense and I don't know if they were talking about attic fans that ventillate from the living space or from the attic in the mentioned study but if you have a 130 degree oven (your unventillated attic) over your living space and most homes have their AC vents running through this hot space that this heat transfers to your living space and to your AC.  I personally have measured the temp of the air coming out of AC vents in attics and have seen a 2 to 3 degree difference within hours of installing solar attic fans.  (2 or 3 degrees?  You said 20 to 30 degrees in your 1st sentence.  Which is it?)

I have also had customers tell me that they used to keep thermostats at 74 and now, with attic fans and a cooler attic can keep their thermostat at 77.  Several repeat sales.

 

 Not sure that solar attic (crawl space) ventillation units were around in the 70's so not sure what was included in the aforementioned study 35  years ago but I have hundreds of customers that will testify that they are a good investment and have reduced their electric bill, especially in the summer. (They weren't available then.  Especially if there is a moisture problem with a crawl space, this is a good application.  However, the source of the moisture should be addressed and eliminated if possible due to health concerns)  We put thermostats on the solar attic fans to cut on at 80 degrees and cut off at 70 to save heat in the winter.   You be the judge. 

I agree that radiant barrier is a good investment as well, keep the heat out in the first place and keeps your heat in. 

 

 

Solar hot water can interface with existing water heaters by adding a preheat tank that captures the hot solution from the roof panels (located in the sun) and preheats the cold water going into your existing water heater.  It is better to add a new tank as well but that is not necessary.  (I concur.  I especially like passive solar water heating systems that include the storage tank.  No freeze concerns as long as the solar collector has a drain down provision.  They do present some structural concerns and may require some additional support.  I do not, however, recommend mounting any type of solar system on a composition shingle roof, because of the roof will have to be replaced long before the solar system and removing and reinstalling a solar system is too costly for most folks.  This is the main reason why you don't see any solar systems from the 70's & 80's still on rooftops in Houston, as there were tens of thousands, if not more, installed.)

 

We have units in stock if you are interested contact me offline they are easy to install yourself if needed.  Houston is an ideal market for this as it is hot 8 months out of the year.  (Did you purchase David Sawchak's stock?)

 

regards

 

 

John Miggins
Harvest Solar & Wind Power
"renewable solutions to everyday needs"
www.harvest-energy.com
Phone/Fax 918-743-2299
Cell: 918-521-6223

----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:06 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

Opps.    Please see my correction/comments below in GREEN to my original email.

 

LaVerne

----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:29 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Mike:

 

Back in the 70's, a study was done in Houston by HUD (I think) regarding attic fans versus other types of attic ventilation and the results came back showing the energy saved (in air conditioned homes) by attic ventilation fans for removing heat didn't offset the amount of energy they used.  So this study showed there was no advantage to powered attic ventilation.  This would also apply to PV powered attic ventilation fans.  It clearly showed that when it came to ventilating attics in Houston, continuous ridge and soffit ventilation performed best.

 

(Assuming you are using gas for heating** and that your furnace is located in the attic where it needs combustion air supply from outside), continuous ridge vents balanced with soffit ventilation proportionally located around the entire perimeter of your house is your best option.  If you have hip roofs, you will have to run the ridge vents down the hips.  I would use Cor-A-Vent for the ridge and hip vents, following details you can get from their website.  The soffits vents can be any kind (even galvanized  hardware cloth).  They must can be sized to balance the air admittance into the attic so that the free inflow air flow area is equal to or greater than the free exit area of the ridge vent area.  In other words, don't put twice as much soffit venting on the west side versus the east side of your roof.  It has to be evenly balanced around the house.  Otherwise, you can get water intrusion into your attic during blowing rains, not matter whose ridge vent system is used. 

 

Also, be sure to include insulation baffles in your plans so that the air path from the soffit vents to the ridge vents isn't blocked by insulation.

 

If your house is all electric, you may want to consider insulating at the roof and eliminating attic ventilation all together, as a lot of moisture is added to the interior of your house from having ventilated attics.  In this area of the country, approx. half of your air-conditioning bill comes from just removing the moisture for the air.  While all this moisture obviously doesn't just come through your ceilings, sheet rock and insulation are not going to stop attic moisture from diffusing down into the interior space.  So eliminating the moisture from this source will not only help reduce your energy bill, but can also provide a healthier indoor environment.  Since dust mites and molds thrive in high humidity environments, eliminating as many possible sources for humidity intrusion into the interior of our homes is prudent.  However, insulating at the underside of the roof will cost more initially.  

 

Should you follow the ventilated attic path, if you haven't already stapled a radiant barrier to the underside of your rafters or considered some other means for adding a radiant barrier to the underside of your roof, it should be considered a major component in your strategy to improve your home's performance.  If you decide to insulate with spray-in foam insulation on the underside of the roof deck, then disregard the use of the radiant barrier.

 

Hope this helps. 

 

LaVerne A. Williams, AIA, LEED AP
architect & building ecologist
LaVerne@...
ENVIRONMENT ASSOCIATES, Architects & Consultants
5828 Langfield Road
Houston, TX 77092-1429
713.528.0000
866.815.2527 toll free
www.environmentassoc.com
30 Years of Leadership in Healthy, High Performance Homes / Green Architecture
Design Counseling / Consulting / Architectural Design / Construction Documents / Construction Administration Services

 

**If the water heater is gas, make sure you don't eliminate it's outside air supply for combustion in your insulation /attic sealing efforts.

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Schmitt

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 7:20 PM

Subject: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Hello,

 

I guess I have to start somewhere..So I will start with attic fans.

 

I live up near Cut-n-Shoot in the woods and I don’t get enough wind to see the old style turbines spin on my roof. I have added more sofit vents and still doesn’t seem to get them moving. So instead of replacing the turbins with new ones, Im looking into changing them out with 2 solar powered attic fans to help cool down the attic. I’m trying to find small PV projects to start with and work up to the bigger ones later after I get the house better insulated.

 

Right now this 2 story house is 2200 sq feet with the highest electric bill was at $134.00 this summer. I have been graphing my daily power usage and the highest was 82 KWh for one day. All the bulbs have been replaced with the Compact FL bulbs (60w version).  The attic has to have more insulation added. I was able to get insulation in 30% of the attic this summer. All the A/C ducts are in the way…will finish up this winter. The windows in this house are a step above the aluminum frame. They have double panes but are worthless….they will have to be updated soon. The good thing about this house is that the previous owner paid the money to have the interior walls insulated as well as the exterior but for some reason did a half rear job in the attic. The 30% I put in up there was to cover the corner that didn’t have any. After updating some appliances (washer/dryer, fridge and dish washer) I should be able to move up to the bigger projects.

 

Some questions I have are:

 

1. At what point (daily KWh usage) is a good point to start adding PV systems. Im thinking in terms of a hobby because off the A/C systems in Houston… you can’t really go off grid or can you? How does it work with the A/C power usage?
2. Where can I get some quality attic fans? What CFM is a good flow to have here in Houston?
3. Any Ideas on how to hook up a solar water heater that has the water heater situated on the first floor in the middle of the house? Can I use a plain insulated tank in the attic or do I need to tie into another water heater?
4. Anything else I’m missing?

 

Thanks in advance for your time!!!

 

Mike Schmitt

 

 

 

 

---
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----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:06 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

Opps.    Please see my correction/comments below in GREEN to my original email.

 

LaVerne

----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:29 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Mike:

 

Back in the 70's, a study was done in Houston by HUD (I think) regarding attic fans versus other types of attic ventilation and the results came back showing the energy saved (in air conditioned homes) by attic ventilation fans for removing heat didn't offset the amount of energy they used.  So this study showed there was no advantage to powered attic ventilation.  This would also apply to PV powered attic ventilation fans.  It clearly showed that when it came to ventilating attics in Houston, continuous ridge and soffit ventilation performed best.

 

(Assuming you are using gas for heating** and that your furnace is located in the attic where it needs combustion air supply from outside), continuous ridge vents balanced with soffit ventilation proportionally located around the entire perimeter of your house is your best option.  If you have hip roofs, you will have to run the ridge vents down the hips.  I would use Cor-A-Vent for the ridge and hip vents, following details you can get from their website.  The soffits vents can be any kind (even galvanized  hardware cloth).  They must can be sized to balance the air admittance into the attic so that the free inflow air flow area is equal to or greater than the free exit area of the ridge vent area.  In other words, don't put twice as much soffit venting on the west side versus the east side of your roof.  It has to be evenly balanced around the house.  Otherwise, you can get water intrusion into your attic during blowing rains, not matter whose ridge vent system is used. 

 

Also, be sure to include insulation baffles in your plans so that the air path from the soffit vents to the ridge vents isn't blocked by insulation.

 

If your house is all electric, you may want to consider insulating at the roof and eliminating attic ventilation all together, as a lot of moisture is added to the interior of your house from having ventilated attics.  In this area of the country, approx. half of your air-conditioning bill comes from just removing the moisture for the air.  While all this moisture obviously doesn't just come through your ceilings, sheet rock and insulation are not going to stop attic moisture from diffusing down into the interior space.  So eliminating the moisture from this source will not only help reduce your energy bill, but can also provide a healthier indoor environment.  Since dust mites and molds thrive in high humidity environments, eliminating as many possible sources for humidity intrusion into the interior of our homes is prudent.  However, insulating at the underside of the roof will cost more initially.  

 

Should you follow the ventilated attic path, if you haven't already stapled a radiant barrier to the underside of your rafters or considered some other means for adding a radiant barrier to the underside of your roof, it should be considered a major component in your strategy to improve your home's performance.  If you decide to insulate with spray-in foam insulation on the underside of the roof deck, then disregard the use of the radiant barrier.

 

Hope this helps. 

 

LaVerne A. Williams, AIA, LEED AP
architect & building ecologist
LaVerne@...
ENVIRONMENT ASSOCIATES, Architects & Consultants
5828 Langfield Road
Houston, TX 77092-1429
713.528.0000
866.815.2527 toll free
www.environmentassoc.com
30 Years of Leadership in Healthy, High Performance Homes / Green Architecture
Design Counseling / Consulting / Architectural Design / Construction Documents / Construction Administration Services

 

**If the water heater is gas, make sure you don't eliminate it's outside air supply for combustion in your insulation /attic sealing efforts.

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Schmitt

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 7:20 PM

Subject: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Hello,

 

I guess I have to start somewhere..So I will start with attic fans.

 

I live up near Cut-n-Shoot in the woods and I don’t get enough wind to see the old style turbines spin on my roof. I have added more sofit vents and still doesn’t seem to get them moving. So instead of replacing the turbins with new ones, Im looking into changing them out with 2 solar powered attic fans to help cool down the attic. I’m trying to find small PV projects to start with and work up to the bigger ones later after I get the house better insulated.

 

Right now this 2 story house is 2200 sq feet with the highest electric bill was at $134.00 this summer. I have been graphing my daily power usage and the highest was 82 KWh for one day. All the bulbs have been replaced with the Compact FL bulbs (60w version).  The attic has to have more insulation added. I was able to get insulation in 30% of the attic this summer. All the A/C ducts are in the way…will finish up this winter. The windows in this house are a step above the aluminum frame. They have double panes but are worthless….they will have to be updated soon. The good thing about this house is that the previous owner paid the money to have the interior walls insulated as well as the exterior but for some reason did a half rear job in the attic. The 30% I put in up there was to cover the corner that didn’t have any. After updating some appliances (washer/dryer, fridge and dish washer) I should be able to move up to the bigger projects.

 

Some questions I have are:

 

1. At what point (daily KWh usage) is a good point to start adding PV systems. Im thinking in terms of a hobby because off the A/C systems in Houston… you can’t really go off grid or can you? How does it work with the A/C power usage?
2. Where can I get some quality attic fans? What CFM is a good flow to have here in Houston?
3. Any Ideas on how to hook up a solar water heater that has the water heater situated on the first floor in the middle of the house? Can I use a plain insulated tank in the attic or do I need to tie into another water heater?
4. Anything else I’m missing?

 

Thanks in advance for your time!!!

 

Mike Schmitt

 

 

 

 

---
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----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 10:25 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

John:

 

See my comments in green below.  Also, what most people may not realize is that I don't sell any construction products, building equipment, solar, alternative or conventional energy products, so there is no vested interest in the recommendations I make.  In other words, I don't make any profit from the sale of the stuff I recommend.  Nor do I accept any "referral fee"  compensation from those who do manufacturer or sell the products I make in my recommendations.  I do this because I want all of my clients to know I am looking out for their best interests, not how much money I might pocket from what I recommend for their particular situation.  If for some reason you don't think I am up to date with what is available out there, please educate me, as I would want my clients (and subsequently you) to benefit from superior technology and design. 

 

LaVerne A. Williams, AIA, LEED AP
architect & building ecologist
LaVerne@...
ENVIRONMENT ASSOCIATES, Architects & Consultants
5828 Langfield Road
Houston, TX 77092-1429
713.528.0000
866.815.2527 toll free
www.environmentassoc.com
30 Years of Leadership in Healthy, High Performance Homes / Green Architecture
Design Counseling / Consulting / Architectural Design / Construction Documents / Construction Administration Services

----- Original Message -----

From: John Miggins

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 5:30 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

Mike, we install lots of SOLAR powered attic fans and I can tell you that they do save you money because they have no ongoing cost to run and reduce the attic temperature of homes from 20 to 30 degrees.(But there is initial cost and lifecycle cost issues.  What is their life span?)  Show me the tests that prove this much temperature drop along with acceptable life cycle costs and I will become an advocate of solar powered attic ventilation fans.)    I don't see how this cannot save you money on cooling your home in the summer.  It also helps reduce moisture in the attic which can cause other problems. (Let's think about this.  Generally, let's hope the air outside the attic is more humid than the air already in the attic, (an exception perhaps being after a dry cold front comes through) otherwise there is a basic construction or operation problem here.  So I don't see how bringing in more humid outside air is going to make the attic less humid.)  Soffit vents to create bottom to top air flow are essential.  My experience with ridge vents and soffet vents is that if there is not a suction or motor pulling the air out they do very little good. (That's the beauty of passive ventilation systems.  They work by creating a laminar-like flow below the roof deck that is spread out over a large area.  Plus it is removing the hottest air....the air right below the roof deck.  It's not like measuring the concentrated flow of air near a fan. Passive ridge vents don't require any generated energy to run them, solar or otherwise, other than the heat of the sun on the roof to create a thermal chimney effect, i.e., hot air rises to create a draft.  This draft is enhanced when there is a breeze and the flow of the breeze over the ridges creates a suction throught the Venturi effect.)   Take a cigarette in the attic and check air flow before and after attic fans, it is a good way to test real world conditions.  (When I did smoke a long time ago, I could always show my clients how the draft was working with ridge & soffit vents.  The only time it didn't was when the ridge and soffit vents were not installed properly.......or it was nighttime.)

 

 It is common sense and I don't know if they were talking about attic fans that ventillate from the living space or from the attic in the mentioned study but if you have a 130 degree oven (your unventillated attic) over your living space and most homes have their AC vents running through this hot space that this heat transfers to your living space and to your AC.  I personally have measured the temp of the air coming out of AC vents in attics and have seen a 2 to 3 degree difference within hours of installing solar attic fans.  (2 or 3 degrees?  You said 20 to 30 degrees in your 1st sentence.  Which is it?)

I have also had customers tell me that they used to keep thermostats at 74 and now, with attic fans and a cooler attic can keep their thermostat at 77.  Several repeat sales.

 

 Not sure that solar attic (crawl space) ventillation units were around in the 70's so not sure what was included in the aforementioned study 35  years ago but I have hundreds of customers that will testify that they are a good investment and have reduced their electric bill, especially in the summer. (They weren't available then.  Especially if there is a moisture problem with a crawl space, this is a good application.  However, the source of the moisture should be addressed and eliminated if possible due to health concerns)  We put thermostats on the solar attic fans to cut on at 80 degrees and cut off at 70 to save heat in the winter.   You be the judge. 

I agree that radiant barrier is a good investment as well, keep the heat out in the first place and keeps your heat in. 

 

 

Solar hot water can interface with existing water heaters by adding a preheat tank that captures the hot solution from the roof panels (located in the sun) and preheats the cold water going into your existing water heater.  It is better to add a new tank as well but that is not necessary.  (I concur.  I especially like passive solar water heating systems that include the storage tank.  No freeze concerns as long as the solar collector has a drain down provision.  They do present some structural concerns and may require some additional support.  I do not, however, recommend mounting any type of solar system on a composition shingle roof, because of the roof will have to be replaced long before the solar system and removing and reinstalling a solar system is too costly for most folks.  This is the main reason why you don't see any solar systems from the 70's & 80's still on rooftops in Houston, as there were tens of thousands, if not more, installed.)

 

We have units in stock if you are interested contact me offline they are easy to install yourself if needed.  Houston is an ideal market for this as it is hot 8 months out of the year.  (Did you purchase David Sawchak's stock?)

 

regards

 

 

John Miggins
Harvest Solar & Wind Power
"renewable solutions to everyday needs"
www.harvest-energy.com
Phone/Fax 918-743-2299
Cell: 918-521-6223

----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:06 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

Opps.    Please see my correction/comments below in GREEN to my original email.

 

LaVerne

----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:29 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Mike:

 

Back in the 70's, a study was done in Houston by HUD (I think) regarding attic fans versus other types of attic ventilation and the results came back showing the energy saved (in air conditioned homes) by attic ventilation fans for removing heat didn't offset the amount of energy they used.  So this study showed there was no advantage to powered attic ventilation.  This would also apply to PV powered attic ventilation fans.  It clearly showed that when it came to ventilating attics in Houston, continuous ridge and soffit ventilation performed best.

 

(Assuming you are using gas for heating** and that your furnace is located in the attic where it needs combustion air supply from outside), continuous ridge vents balanced with soffit ventilation proportionally located around the entire perimeter of your house is your best option.  If you have hip roofs, you will have to run the ridge vents down the hips.  I would use Cor-A-Vent for the ridge and hip vents, following details you can get from their website.  The soffits vents can be any kind (even galvanized  hardware cloth).  They must can be sized to balance the air admittance into the attic so that the free inflow air flow area is equal to or greater than the free exit area of the ridge vent area.  In other words, don't put twice as much soffit venting on the west side versus the east side of your roof.  It has to be evenly balanced around the house.  Otherwise, you can get water intrusion into your attic during blowing rains, not matter whose ridge vent system is used. 

 

Also, be sure to include insulation baffles in your plans so that the air path from the soffit vents to the ridge vents isn't blocked by insulation.

 

If your house is all electric, you may want to consider insulating at the roof and eliminating attic ventilation all together, as a lot of moisture is added to the interior of your house from having ventilated attics.  In this area of the country, approx. half of your air-conditioning bill comes from just removing the moisture for the air.  While all this moisture obviously doesn't just come through your ceilings, sheet rock and insulation are not going to stop attic moisture from diffusing down into the interior space.  So eliminating the moisture from this source will not only help reduce your energy bill, but can also provide a healthier indoor environment.  Since dust mites and molds thrive in high humidity environments, eliminating as many possible sources for humidity intrusion into the interior of our homes is prudent.  However, insulating at the underside of the roof will cost more initially.  

 

Should you follow the ventilated attic path, if you haven't already stapled a radiant barrier to the underside of your rafters or considered some other means for adding a radiant barrier to the underside of your roof, it should be considered a major component in your strategy to improve your home's performance.  If you decide to insulate with spray-in foam insulation on the underside of the roof deck, then disregard the use of the radiant barrier.

 

Hope this helps. 

 

LaVerne A. Williams, AIA, LEED AP
architect & building ecologist
LaVerne@...
ENVIRONMENT ASSOCIATES, Architects & Consultants
5828 Langfield Road
Houston, TX 77092-1429
713.528.0000
866.815.2527 toll free
www.environmentassoc.com
30 Years of Leadership in Healthy, High Performance Homes / Green Architecture
Design Counseling / Consulting / Architectural Design / Construction Documents / Construction Administration Services

 

**If the water heater is gas, make sure you don't eliminate it's outside air supply for combustion in your insulation /attic sealing efforts.

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Schmitt

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 7:20 PM

Subject: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Hello,

 

I guess I have to start somewhere..So I will start with attic fans.

 

I live up near Cut-n-Shoot in the woods and I don’t get enough wind to see the old style turbines spin on my roof. I have added more sofit vents and still doesn’t seem to get them moving. So instead of replacing the turbins with new ones, Im looking into changing them out with 2 solar powered attic fans to help cool down the attic. I’m trying to find small PV projects to start with and work up to the bigger ones later after I get the house better insulated.

 

Right now this 2 story house is 2200 sq feet with the highest electric bill was at $134.00 this summer. I have been graphing my daily power usage and the highest was 82 KWh for one day. All the bulbs have been replaced with the Compact FL bulbs (60w version).  The attic has to have more insulation added. I was able to get insulation in 30% of the attic this summer. All the A/C ducts are in the way…will finish up this winter. The windows in this house are a step above the aluminum frame. They have double panes but are worthless….they will have to be updated soon. The good thing about this house is that the previous owner paid the money to have the interior walls insulated as well as the exterior but for some reason did a half rear job in the attic. The 30% I put in up there was to cover the corner that didn’t have any. After updating some appliances (washer/dryer, fridge and dish washer) I should be able to move up to the bigger projects.

 

Some questions I have are:

 

1. At what point (daily KWh usage) is a good point to start adding PV systems. Im thinking in terms of a hobby because off the A/C systems in Houston… you can’t really go off grid or can you? How does it work with the A/C power usage?
2. Where can I get some quality attic fans? What CFM is a good flow to have here in Houston?
3. Any Ideas on how to hook up a solar water heater that has the water heater situated on the first floor in the middle of the house? Can I use a plain insulated tank in the attic or do I need to tie into another water heater?
4. Anything else I’m missing?

 

Thanks in advance for your time!!!

 

Mike Schmitt

 

 

 

 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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----- Original Message -----

From: David Power

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 10:50 AM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

John do you have a vent designed for tile roofs? Everything I've run across seems to be designed for a composite roof. I know that I can build a box for the fan to sit on top of and have the tile cut to fit around it but the cost of the install exceeds the cost of the fan by quite a bit and I worry about leaks.

 

David

 

----- Original Message -----

From: John Miggins

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 5:30 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

Mike, we install lots of SOLAR powered attic fans and I can tell you that they do save you money because they have no ongoing cost to run and reduce the attic temperature of homes from 20 to 30 degrees.  I don't see how this cannot save you money on cooling your home in the summer.  It also helps reduce moisture in the attic which can cause other problems. Soffit vents to create bottom to top air flow are essential.  My experience with ridge vents and soffet vents is that if there is not a suction or motor pulling the air out they do very little good.  Take a cigarette in the attic and check air flow before and after attic fans, it is a good way to test real world conditions.

 

 It is common sense and I don't know if they were talking about attic fans that ventillate from the living space or from the attic in the mentioned study but if you have a 130 degree oven (your unventillated attic) over your living space and most homes have their AC vents running through this hot space that this heat transfers to your living space and to your AC.  I personally have measured the temp of the air coming out of AC vents in attics and have seen a 2 to 3 degree difference within hours of installing solar attic fans.

I have also had customers tell me that they used to keep thermostats at 74 and now, with attic fans and a cooler attic can keep their thermostat at 77.  Several repeat sales.

 

 Not sure that solar attic (crawl space) ventillation units were around in the 70's so not sure what was included in the aforementioned study 35  years ago but I have hundreds of customers that will testify that they are a good investment and have reduced their electric bill, especially in the summer. We put thermostats on the solar attic fans to cut on at 80 degrees and cut off at 70 to save heat in the winter.   You be the judge.

 

I agree that radiant barrier is a good investment as well, keep the heat out in the first place and keeps your heat in. 

 

 

Solar hot water can interface with existing water heaters by adding a preheat tank that captures the hot solution from the roof panels (located in the sun) and preheats the cold water going into your existing water heater.  It is better to add a new tank as well but that is not necessary.

 

We have units in stock if you are interested contact me offline they are easy to install yourself if needed.  Houston is an ideal market for this as it is hot 8 months out of the year.

 

regards

 

 

John Miggins
Harvest Solar & Wind Power
"renewable solutions to everyday needs"
www.harvest-energy.com
Phone/Fax 918-743-2299
Cell: 918-521-6223

----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:06 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

Opps.    Please see my correction/comments below in GREEN to my original email.

 

LaVerne

----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:29 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Mike:

 

Back in the 70's, a study was done in Houston by HUD (I think) regarding attic fans versus other types of attic ventilation and the results came back showing the energy saved (in air conditioned homes) by attic ventilation fans for removing heat didn't offset the amount of energy they used.  So this study showed there was no advantage to powered attic ventilation.  This would also apply to PV powered attic ventilation fans.  It clearly showed that when it came to ventilating attics in Houston, continuous ridge and soffit ventilation performed best.

 

(Assuming you are using gas for heating** and that your furnace is located in the attic where it needs combustion air supply from outside), continuous ridge vents balanced with soffit ventilation proportionally located around the entire perimeter of your house is your best option.  If you have hip roofs, you will have to run the ridge vents down the hips.  I would use Cor-A-Vent for the ridge and hip vents, following details you can get from their website.  The soffits vents can be any kind (even galvanized  hardware cloth).  They must can be sized to balance the air admittance into the attic so that the free inflow air flow area is equal to or greater than the free exit area of the ridge vent area.  In other words, don't put twice as much soffit venting on the west side versus the east side of your roof.  It has to be evenly balanced around the house.  Otherwise, you can get water intrusion into your attic during blowing rains, not matter whose ridge vent system is used. 

 

Also, be sure to include insulation baffles in your plans so that the air path from the soffit vents to the ridge vents isn't blocked by insulation.

 

If your house is all electric, you may want to consider insulating at the roof and eliminating attic ventilation all together, as a lot of moisture is added to the interior of your house from having ventilated attics.  In this area of the country, approx. half of your air-conditioning bill comes from just removing the moisture for the air.  While all this moisture obviously doesn't just come through your ceilings, sheet rock and insulation are not going to stop attic moisture from diffusing down into the interior space.  So eliminating the moisture from this source will not only help reduce your energy bill, but can also provide a healthier indoor environment.  Since dust mites and molds thrive in high humidity environments, eliminating as many possible sources for humidity intrusion into the interior of our homes is prudent.  However, insulating at the underside of the roof will cost more initially.  

 

Should you follow the ventilated attic path, if you haven't already stapled a radiant barrier to the underside of your rafters or considered some other means for adding a radiant barrier to the underside of your roof, it should be considered a major component in your strategy to improve your home's performance.  If you decide to insulate with spray-in foam insulation on the underside of the roof deck, then disregard the use of the radiant barrier.

 

Hope this helps. 

 

LaVerne A. Williams, AIA, LEED AP
architect & building ecologist
LaVerne@...
ENVIRONMENT ASSOCIATES, Architects & Consultants
5828 Langfield Road
Houston, TX 77092-1429
713.528.0000
866.815.2527 toll free
www.environmentassoc.com
30 Years of Leadership in Healthy, High Performance Homes / Green Architecture
Design Counseling / Consulting / Architectural Design / Construction Documents / Construction Administration Services

 

**If the water heater is gas, make sure you don't eliminate it's outside air supply for combustion in your insulation /attic sealing efforts.

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Schmitt

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 7:20 PM

Subject: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Hello,

 

I guess I have to start somewhere..So I will start with attic fans.

 

I live up near Cut-n-Shoot in the woods and I don’t get enough wind to see the old style turbines spin on my roof. I have added more sofit vents and still doesn’t seem to get them moving. So instead of replacing the turbins with new ones, Im looking into changing them out with 2 solar powered attic fans to help cool down the attic. I’m trying to find small PV projects to start with and work up to the bigger ones later after I get the house better insulated.

 

Right now this 2 story house is 2200 sq feet with the highest electric bill was at $134.00 this summer. I have been graphing my daily power usage and the highest was 82 KWh for one day. All the bulbs have been replaced with the Compact FL bulbs (60w version).  The attic has to have more insulation added. I was able to get insulation in 30% of the attic this summer. All the A/C ducts are in the way…will finish up this winter. The windows in this house are a step above the aluminum frame. They have double panes but are worthless….they will have to be updated soon. The good thing about this house is that the previous owner paid the money to have the interior walls insulated as well as the exterior but for some reason did a half rear job in the attic. The 30% I put in up there was to cover the corner that didn’t have any. After updating some appliances (washer/dryer, fridge and dish washer) I should be able to move up to the bigger projects.

 

Some questions I have are:

 

1. At what point (daily KWh usage) is a good point to start adding PV systems. Im thinking in terms of a hobby because off the A/C systems in Houston… you can’t really go off grid or can you? How does it work with the A/C power usage?
2. Where can I get some quality attic fans? What CFM is a good flow to have here in Houston?
3. Any Ideas on how to hook up a solar water heater that has the water heater situated on the first floor in the middle of the house? Can I use a plain insulated tank in the attic or do I need to tie into another water heater?
4. Anything else I’m missing?

 

Thanks in advance for your time!!!

 

Mike Schmitt

 

 

 

 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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1:18pm, Gary Beck wrote:

> I would work this project on the basis of biggest benefit for lowest cost.
>
>
>
> If you have double
> pane windows these are far from worthless. Single pane leaking steel
> casements are worthless. Replacing my casements with vinyl double glass low
> E made a huge difference, but you will not see much improvement over what
> you already have. Just make sure that they all close properly and every
> opening (windows and doors) has good functional weather stripping and are
> neatly caulk at the frames.

This is something I need to do at my house. I can't afford to do the whole
house, but we've got two south-facing windows that are about 4'x7' each, and
the rooms those windows are in are the hottest in the house by a huge
margin.
Can anyone recommend any brands/models/businesses for replacement windows
where there's a good balance between efficient and inexpensive?

Thanks,

Paul

----- Original Message -----

From: David Power

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 10:50 AM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

John do you have a vent designed for tile roofs? Everything I've run across seems to be designed for a composite roof. I know that I can build a box for the fan to sit on top of and have the tile cut to fit around it but the cost of the install exceeds the cost of the fan by quite a bit and I worry about leaks.

 

David

 

----- Original Message -----

From: John Miggins

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 5:30 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

Mike, we install lots of SOLAR powered attic fans and I can tell you that they do save you money because they have no ongoing cost to run and reduce the attic temperature of homes from 20 to 30 degrees.  I don't see how this cannot save you money on cooling your home in the summer.  It also helps reduce moisture in the attic which can cause other problems. Soffit vents to create bottom to top air flow are essential.  My experience with ridge vents and soffet vents is that if there is not a suction or motor pulling the air out they do very little good.  Take a cigarette in the attic and check air flow before and after attic fans, it is a good way to test real world conditions.

 

 It is common sense and I don't know if they were talking about attic fans that ventillate from the living space or from the attic in the mentioned study but if you have a 130 degree oven (your unventillated attic) over your living space and most homes have their AC vents running through this hot space that this heat transfers to your living space and to your AC.  I personally have measured the temp of the air coming out of AC vents in attics and have seen a 2 to 3 degree difference within hours of installing solar attic fans.

I have also had customers tell me that they used to keep thermostats at 74 and now, with attic fans and a cooler attic can keep their thermostat at 77.  Several repeat sales.

 

 Not sure that solar attic (crawl space) ventillation units were around in the 70's so not sure what was included in the aforementioned study 35  years ago but I have hundreds of customers that will testify that they are a good investment and have reduced their electric bill, especially in the summer. We put thermostats on the solar attic fans to cut on at 80 degrees and cut off at 70 to save heat in the winter.   You be the judge.

 

I agree that radiant barrier is a good investment as well, keep the heat out in the first place and keeps your heat in. 

 

 

Solar hot water can interface with existing water heaters by adding a preheat tank that captures the hot solution from the roof panels (located in the sun) and preheats the cold water going into your existing water heater.  It is better to add a new tank as well but that is not necessary.

 

We have units in stock if you are interested contact me offline they are easy to install yourself if needed.  Houston is an ideal market for this as it is hot 8 months out of the year.

 

regards

 

 

John Miggins
Harvest Solar & Wind Power
"renewable solutions to everyday needs"
www.harvest-energy.com
Phone/Fax 918-743-2299
Cell: 918-521-6223

----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:06 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

Opps.    Please see my correction/comments below in GREEN to my original email.

 

LaVerne

----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:29 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Mike:

 

Back in the 70's, a study was done in Houston by HUD (I think) regarding attic fans versus other types of attic ventilation and the results came back showing the energy saved (in air conditioned homes) by attic ventilation fans for removing heat didn't offset the amount of energy they used.  So this study showed there was no advantage to powered attic ventilation.  This would also apply to PV powered attic ventilation fans.  It clearly showed that when it came to ventilating attics in Houston, continuous ridge and soffit ventilation performed best.

 

(Assuming you are using gas for heating** and that your furnace is located in the attic where it needs combustion air supply from outside), continuous ridge vents balanced with soffit ventilation proportionally located around the entire perimeter of your house is your best option.  If you have hip roofs, you will have to run the ridge vents down the hips.  I would use Cor-A-Vent for the ridge and hip vents, following details you can get from their website.  The soffits vents can be any kind (even galvanized  hardware cloth).  They must can be sized to balance the air admittance into the attic so that the free inflow air flow area is equal to or greater than the free exit area of the ridge vent area.  In other words, don't put twice as much soffit venting on the west side versus the east side of your roof.  It has to be evenly balanced around the house.  Otherwise, you can get water intrusion into your attic during blowing rains, not matter whose ridge vent system is used. 

 

Also, be sure to include insulation baffles in your plans so that the air path from the soffit vents to the ridge vents isn't blocked by insulation.

 

If your house is all electric, you may want to consider insulating at the roof and eliminating attic ventilation all together, as a lot of moisture is added to the interior of your house from having ventilated attics.  In this area of the country, approx. half of your air-conditioning bill comes from just removing the moisture for the air.  While all this moisture obviously doesn't just come through your ceilings, sheet rock and insulation are not going to stop attic moisture from diffusing down into the interior space.  So eliminating the moisture from this source will not only help reduce your energy bill, but can also provide a healthier indoor environment.  Since dust mites and molds thrive in high humidity environments, eliminating as many possible sources for humidity intrusion into the interior of our homes is prudent.  However, insulating at the underside of the roof will cost more initially.  

 

Should you follow the ventilated attic path, if you haven't already stapled a radiant barrier to the underside of your rafters or considered some other means for adding a radiant barrier to the underside of your roof, it should be considered a major component in your strategy to improve your home's performance.  If you decide to insulate with spray-in foam insulation on the underside of the roof deck, then disregard the use of the radiant barrier.

 

Hope this helps. 

 

LaVerne A. Williams, AIA, LEED AP
architect & building ecologist
LaVerne@...
ENVIRONMENT ASSOCIATES, Architects & Consultants
5828 Langfield Road
Houston, TX 77092-1429
713.528.0000
866.815.2527 toll free
www.environmentassoc.com
30 Years of Leadership in Healthy, High Performance Homes / Green Architecture
Design Counseling / Consulting / Architectural Design / Construction Documents / Construction Administration Services

 

**If the water heater is gas, make sure you don't eliminate it's outside air supply for combustion in your insulation /attic sealing efforts.

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Schmitt

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 7:20 PM

Subject: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Hello,

 

I guess I have to start somewhere..So I will start with attic fans.

 

I live up near Cut-n-Shoot in the woods and I don’t get enough wind to see the old style turbines spin on my roof. I have added more sofit vents and still doesn’t seem to get them moving. So instead of replacing the turbins with new ones, Im looking into changing them out with 2 solar powered attic fans to help cool down the attic. I’m trying to find small PV projects to start with and work up to the bigger ones later after I get the house better insulated.

 

Right now this 2 story house is 2200 sq feet with the highest electric bill was at $134.00 this summer. I have been graphing my daily power usage and the highest was 82 KWh for one day. All the bulbs have been replaced with the Compact FL bulbs (60w version).  The attic has to have more insulation added. I was able to get insulation in 30% of the attic this summer. All the A/C ducts are in the way…will finish up this winter. The windows in this house are a step above the aluminum frame. They have double panes but are worthless….they will have to be updated soon. The good thing about this house is that the previous owner paid the money to have the interior walls insulated as well as the exterior but for some reason did a half rear job in the attic. The 30% I put in up there was to cover the corner that didn’t have any. After updating some appliances (washer/dryer, fridge and dish washer) I should be able to move up to the bigger projects.

 

Some questions I have are:

 

1. At what point (daily KWh usage) is a good point to start adding PV systems. Im thinking in terms of a hobby because off the A/C systems in Houston… you can’t really go off grid or can you? How does it work with the A/C power usage?
2. Where can I get some quality attic fans? What CFM is a good flow to have here in Houston?
3. Any Ideas on how to hook up a solar water heater that has the water heater situated on the first floor in the middle of the house? Can I use a plain insulated tank in the attic or do I need to tie into another water heater?
4. Anything else I’m missing?

 

Thanks in advance for your time!!!

 

Mike Schmitt

 

 

 

 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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The double pane widows I have are the Aluminum frames and have the
condensation in the middle.

At my old house we replace 2 windows plus one standard size. The 2 large
windows were 4x9 they were the largest that they could make of the vinyl
type. You could tell a difference after they were in... a lot cooler. they
had foam filled vinyl. They were expensive 1200 a piece installed (Window
Guys) would I use them again? **probably not**. We tried to order some more
windows and the different sales guy tried to stick it to me. I watched the
installer put them in..its not hard at all. On this house im going install
them myself. I think I can get the same quality by ordering them through
Home depot or Lowes. But I can say from experience that the new windows made
a heck of a difference..I will definitely change out the windows here.


One thing that has stuck with me for a while...I was watching a show on
older architecture and they talk about how the older designs with the big
porches worked well because they blocked the sunlight BEFORE it made it into
the house. I was thinking about maybe using some awnings or other structures
to block the sun from hitting the west side of the house. The majority of
the house has windows on the west side and these windows are located on the
sunny side and not the shaded side of the west end. I know for a fact how
much heat builds up here when I spent the summer staining the house..I got
fried pretty well.


Mike






-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Archer [mailto:tigger@...]
Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 1:35 PM
To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans


1:18pm, Gary Beck wrote:

> I would work this project on the basis of biggest benefit for lowest cost.
>
>
>
> If you have double
> pane windows these are far from worthless. Single pane leaking steel
> casements are worthless. Replacing my casements with vinyl double glass
low
> E made a huge difference, but you will not see much improvement over what
> you already have. Just make sure that they all close properly and every
> opening (windows and doors) has good functional weather stripping and are
> neatly caulk at the frames.

This is something I need to do at my house. I can't afford to do the whole
house, but we've got two south-facing windows that are about 4'x7' each, and
the rooms those windows are in are the hottest in the house by a huge
margin.
Can anyone recommend any brands/models/businesses for replacement windows
where there's a good balance between efficient and inexpensive?

Thanks,

Paul




Yahoo! Groups Links








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Version: 6.0.778 / Virus Database: 525 - Release Date: 10/15/2004


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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----- Original Message -----

From: David Power

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 10:50 AM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

John do you have a vent designed for tile roofs? Everything I've run across seems to be designed for a composite roof. I know that I can build a box for the fan to sit on top of and have the tile cut to fit around it but the cost of the install exceeds the cost of the fan by quite a bit and I worry about leaks.

 

David

 

----- Original Message -----

From: John Miggins

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 5:30 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

Mike, we install lots of SOLAR powered attic fans and I can tell you that they do save you money because they have no ongoing cost to run and reduce the attic temperature of homes from 20 to 30 degrees.  I don't see how this cannot save you money on cooling your home in the summer.  It also helps reduce moisture in the attic which can cause other problems. Soffit vents to create bottom to top air flow are essential.  My experience with ridge vents and soffet vents is that if there is not a suction or motor pulling the air out they do very little good.  Take a cigarette in the attic and check air flow before and after attic fans, it is a good way to test real world conditions.

 

 It is common sense and I don't know if they were talking about attic fans that ventillate from the living space or from the attic in the mentioned study but if you have a 130 degree oven (your unventillated attic) over your living space and most homes have their AC vents running through this hot space that this heat transfers to your living space and to your AC.  I personally have measured the temp of the air coming out of AC vents in attics and have seen a 2 to 3 degree difference within hours of installing solar attic fans.

I have also had customers tell me that they used to keep thermostats at 74 and now, with attic fans and a cooler attic can keep their thermostat at 77.  Several repeat sales.

 

 Not sure that solar attic (crawl space) ventillation units were around in the 70's so not sure what was included in the aforementioned study 35  years ago but I have hundreds of customers that will testify that they are a good investment and have reduced their electric bill, especially in the summer. We put thermostats on the solar attic fans to cut on at 80 degrees and cut off at 70 to save heat in the winter.   You be the judge.

 

I agree that radiant barrier is a good investment as well, keep the heat out in the first place and keeps your heat in. 

 

 

Solar hot water can interface with existing water heaters by adding a preheat tank that captures the hot solution from the roof panels (located in the sun) and preheats the cold water going into your existing water heater.  It is better to add a new tank as well but that is not necessary.

 

We have units in stock if you are interested contact me offline they are easy to install yourself if needed.  Houston is an ideal market for this as it is hot 8 months out of the year.

 

regards

 

 

John Miggins
Harvest Solar & Wind Power
"renewable solutions to everyday needs"
www.harvest-energy.com
Phone/Fax 918-743-2299
Cell: 918-521-6223

----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:06 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

Opps.    Please see my correction/comments below in GREEN to my original email.

 

LaVerne

----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:29 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Mike:

 

Back in the 70's, a study was done in Houston by HUD (I think) regarding attic fans versus other types of attic ventilation and the results came back showing the energy saved (in air conditioned homes) by attic ventilation fans for removing heat didn't offset the amount of energy they used.  So this study showed there was no advantage to powered attic ventilation.  This would also apply to PV powered attic ventilation fans.  It clearly showed that when it came to ventilating attics in Houston, continuous ridge and soffit ventilation performed best.

 

(Assuming you are using gas for heating** and that your furnace is located in the attic where it needs combustion air supply from outside), continuous ridge vents balanced with soffit ventilation proportionally located around the entire perimeter of your house is your best option.  If you have hip roofs, you will have to run the ridge vents down the hips.  I would use Cor-A-Vent for the ridge and hip vents, following details you can get from their website.  The soffits vents can be any kind (even galvanized  hardware cloth).  They must can be sized to balance the air admittance into the attic so that the free inflow air flow area is equal to or greater than the free exit area of the ridge vent area.  In other words, don't put twice as much soffit venting on the west side versus the east side of your roof.  It has to be evenly balanced around the house.  Otherwise, you can get water intrusion into your attic during blowing rains, not matter whose ridge vent system is used. 

 

Also, be sure to include insulation baffles in your plans so that the air path from the soffit vents to the ridge vents isn't blocked by insulation.

 

If your house is all electric, you may want to consider insulating at the roof and eliminating attic ventilation all together, as a lot of moisture is added to the interior of your house from having ventilated attics.  In this area of the country, approx. half of your air-conditioning bill comes from just removing the moisture for the air.  While all this moisture obviously doesn't just come through your ceilings, sheet rock and insulation are not going to stop attic moisture from diffusing down into the interior space.  So eliminating the moisture from this source will not only help reduce your energy bill, but can also provide a healthier indoor environment.  Since dust mites and molds thrive in high humidity environments, eliminating as many possible sources for humidity intrusion into the interior of our homes is prudent.  However, insulating at the underside of the roof will cost more initially.  

 

Should you follow the ventilated attic path, if you haven't already stapled a radiant barrier to the underside of your rafters or considered some other means for adding a radiant barrier to the underside of your roof, it should be considered a major component in your strategy to improve your home's performance.  If you decide to insulate with spray-in foam insulation on the underside of the roof deck, then disregard the use of the radiant barrier.

 

Hope this helps. 

 

LaVerne A. Williams, AIA, LEED AP
architect & building ecologist
LaVerne@...
ENVIRONMENT ASSOCIATES, Architects & Consultants
5828 Langfield Road
Houston, TX 77092-1429
713.528.0000
866.815.2527 toll free
www.environmentassoc.com
30 Years of Leadership in Healthy, High Performance Homes / Green Architecture
Design Counseling / Consulting / Architectural Design / Construction Documents / Construction Administration Services

 

**If the water heater is gas, make sure you don't eliminate it's outside air supply for combustion in your insulation /attic sealing efforts.

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Schmitt

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 7:20 PM

Subject: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Hello,

 

I guess I have to start somewhere..So I will start with attic fans.

 

I live up near Cut-n-Shoot in the woods and I don’t get enough wind to see the old style turbines spin on my roof. I have added more sofit vents and still doesn’t seem to get them moving. So instead of replacing the turbins with new ones, Im looking into changing them out with 2 solar powered attic fans to help cool down the attic. I’m trying to find small PV projects to start with and work up to the bigger ones later after I get the house better insulated.

 

Right now this 2 story house is 2200 sq feet with the highest electric bill was at $134.00 this summer. I have been graphing my daily power usage and the highest was 82 KWh for one day. All the bulbs have been replaced with the Compact FL bulbs (60w version).  The attic has to have more insulation added. I was able to get insulation in 30% of the attic this summer. All the A/C ducts are in the way…will finish up this winter. The windows in this house are a step above the aluminum frame. They have double panes but are worthless….they will have to be updated soon. The good thing about this house is that the previous owner paid the money to have the interior walls insulated as well as the exterior but for some reason did a half rear job in the attic. The 30% I put in up there was to cover the corner that didn’t have any. After updating some appliances (washer/dryer, fridge and dish washer) I should be able to move up to the bigger projects.

 

Some questions I have are:

 

1. At what point (daily KWh usage) is a good point to start adding PV systems. Im thinking in terms of a hobby because off the A/C systems in Houston… you can’t really go off grid or can you? How does it work with the A/C power usage?
2. Where can I get some quality attic fans? What CFM is a good flow to have here in Houston?
3. Any Ideas on how to hook up a solar water heater that has the water heater situated on the first floor in the middle of the house? Can I use a plain insulated tank in the attic or do I need to tie into another water heater?
4. Anything else I’m missing?

 

Thanks in advance for your time!!!

 

Mike Schmitt

 

 

 

 

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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----- Original Message -----

From: SBT Designs

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 12:15 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

Laverne,

 

Considering the power source for any solar product is Sun energy that we don't pay for, how can you say the return on investment does not exist for using a solar product in this application or any application?  It seems to me that if a solar fan runs for five, ten, fifteen years then the return of investment would be realized several times.

 

SBT Designs
25581 IH-10 West
San Antonio, Texas 78257
(210) 698-7109
www.sbtdesigns.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 10:25 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

John:

 

See my comments in green below.  Also, what most people may not realize is that I don't sell any construction products, building equipment, solar, alternative or conventional energy products, so there is no vested interest in the recommendations I make.  In other words, I don't make any profit from the sale of the stuff I recommend.  Nor do I accept any "referral fee"  compensation from those who do manufacturer or sell the products I make in my recommendations.  I do this because I want all of my clients to know I am looking out for their best interests, not how much money I might pocket from what I recommend for their particular situation.  If for some reason you don't think I am up to date with what is available out there, please educate me, as I would want my clients (and subsequently you) to benefit from superior technology and design. 

 

LaVerne A. Williams, AIA, LEED AP
architect & building ecologist
LaVerne@...
ENVIRONMENT ASSOCIATES, Architects & Consultants
5828 Langfield Road
Houston, TX 77092-1429
713.528.0000
866.815.2527 toll free
www.environmentassoc.com
30 Years of Leadership in Healthy, High Performance Homes / Green Architecture
Design Counseling / Consulting / Architectural Design / Construction Documents / Construction Administration Services

----- Original Message -----

From: John Miggins

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 5:30 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

Mike, we install lots of SOLAR powered attic fans and I can tell you that they do save you money because they have no ongoing cost to run and reduce the attic temperature of homes from 20 to 30 degrees.(But there is initial cost and lifecycle cost issues.  What is their life span?)  Show me the tests that prove this much temperature drop along with acceptable life cycle costs and I will become an advocate of solar powered attic ventilation fans.)    I don't see how this cannot save you money on cooling your home in the summer.  It also helps reduce moisture in the attic which can cause other problems. (Let's think about this.  Generally, let's hope the air outside the attic is more humid than the air already in the attic, (an exception perhaps being after a dry cold front comes through) otherwise there is a basic construction or operation problem here.  So I don't see how bringing in more humid outside air is going to make the attic less humid.)  Soffit vents to create bottom to top air flow are essential.  My experience with ridge vents and soffet vents is that if there is not a suction or motor pulling the air out they do very little good. (That's the beauty of passive ventilation systems.  They work by creating a laminar-like flow below the roof deck that is spread out over a large area.  Plus it is removing the hottest air....the air right below the roof deck.  It's not like measuring the concentrated flow of air near a fan. Passive ridge vents don't require any generated energy to run them, solar or otherwise, other than the heat of the sun on the roof to create a thermal chimney effect, i.e., hot air rises to create a draft.  This draft is enhanced when there is a breeze and the flow of the breeze over the ridges creates a suction throught the Venturi effect.)   Take a cigarette in the attic and check air flow before and after attic fans, it is a good way to test real world conditions.  (When I did smoke a long time ago, I could always show my clients how the draft was working with ridge & soffit vents.  The only time it didn't was when the ridge and soffit vents were not installed properly.......or it was nighttime.)

 

 It is common sense and I don't know if they were talking about attic fans that ventillate from the living space or from the attic in the mentioned study but if you have a 130 degree oven (your unventillated attic) over your living space and most homes have their AC vents running through this hot space that this heat transfers to your living space and to your AC.  I personally have measured the temp of the air coming out of AC vents in attics and have seen a 2 to 3 degree difference within hours of installing solar attic fans.  (2 or 3 degrees?  You said 20 to 30 degrees in your 1st sentence.  Which is it?)

I have also had customers tell me that they used to keep thermostats at 74 and now, with attic fans and a cooler attic can keep their thermostat at 77.  Several repeat sales.

 

 Not sure that solar attic (crawl space) ventillation units were around in the 70's so not sure what was included in the aforementioned study 35  years ago but I have hundreds of customers that will testify that they are a good investment and have reduced their electric bill, especially in the summer. (They weren't available then.  Especially if there is a moisture problem with a crawl space, this is a good application.  However, the source of the moisture should be addressed and eliminated if possible due to health concerns)  We put thermostats on the solar attic fans to cut on at 80 degrees and cut off at 70 to save heat in the winter.   You be the judge. 

I agree that radiant barrier is a good investment as well, keep the heat out in the first place and keeps your heat in. 

 

 

Solar hot water can interface with existing water heaters by adding a preheat tank that captures the hot solution from the roof panels (located in the sun) and preheats the cold water going into your existing water heater.  It is better to add a new tank as well but that is not necessary.  (I concur.  I especially like passive solar water heating systems that include the storage tank.  No freeze concerns as long as the solar collector has a drain down provision.  They do present some structural concerns and may require some additional support.  I do not, however, recommend mounting any type of solar system on a composition shingle roof, because of the roof will have to be replaced long before the solar system and removing and reinstalling a solar system is too costly for most folks.  This is the main reason why you don't see any solar systems from the 70's & 80's still on rooftops in Houston, as there were tens of thousands, if not more, installed.)

 

We have units in stock if you are interested contact me offline they are easy to install yourself if needed.  Houston is an ideal market for this as it is hot 8 months out of the year.  (Did you purchase David Sawchak's stock?)

 

regards

 

 

John Miggins
Harvest Solar & Wind Power
"renewable solutions to everyday needs"
www.harvest-energy.com
Phone/Fax 918-743-2299
Cell: 918-521-6223

----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:06 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS

Opps.    Please see my correction/comments below in GREEN to my original email.

 

LaVerne

----- Original Message -----

From: Environment Associates Architects

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:29 PM

Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Mike:

 

Back in the 70's, a study was done in Houston by HUD (I think) regarding attic fans versus other types of attic ventilation and the results came back showing the energy saved (in air conditioned homes) by attic ventilation fans for removing heat didn't offset the amount of energy they used.  So this study showed there was no advantage to powered attic ventilation.  This would also apply to PV powered attic ventilation fans.  It clearly showed that when it came to ventilating attics in Houston, continuous ridge and soffit ventilation performed best.

 

(Assuming you are using gas for heating** and that your furnace is located in the attic where it needs combustion air supply from outside), continuous ridge vents balanced with soffit ventilation proportionally located around the entire perimeter of your house is your best option.  If you have hip roofs, you will have to run the ridge vents down the hips.  I would use Cor-A-Vent for the ridge and hip vents, following details you can get from their website.  The soffits vents can be any kind (even galvanized  hardware cloth).  They must can be sized to balance the air admittance into the attic so that the free inflow air flow area is equal to or greater than the free exit area of the ridge vent area.  In other words, don't put twice as much soffit venting on the west side versus the east side of your roof.  It has to be evenly balanced around the house.  Otherwise, you can get water intrusion into your attic during blowing rains, not matter whose ridge vent system is used. 

 

Also, be sure to include insulation baffles in your plans so that the air path from the soffit vents to the ridge vents isn't blocked by insulation.

 

If your house is all electric, you may want to consider insulating at the roof and eliminating attic ventilation all together, as a lot of moisture is added to the interior of your house from having ventilated attics.  In this area of the country, approx. half of your air-conditioning bill comes from just removing the moisture for the air.  While all this moisture obviously doesn't just come through your ceilings, sheet rock and insulation are not going to stop attic moisture from diffusing down into the interior space.  So eliminating the moisture from this source will not only help reduce your energy bill, but can also provide a healthier indoor environment.  Since dust mites and molds thrive in high humidity environments, eliminating as many possible sources for humidity intrusion into the interior of our homes is prudent.  However, insulating at the underside of the roof will cost more initially.  

 

Should you follow the ventilated attic path, if you haven't already stapled a radiant barrier to the underside of your rafters or considered some other means for adding a radiant barrier to the underside of your roof, it should be considered a major component in your strategy to improve your home's performance.  If you decide to insulate with spray-in foam insulation on the underside of the roof deck, then disregard the use of the radiant barrier.

 

Hope this helps. 

 

LaVerne A. Williams, AIA, LEED AP
architect & building ecologist
LaVerne@...
ENVIRONMENT ASSOCIATES, Architects & Consultants
5828 Langfield Road
Houston, TX 77092-1429
713.528.0000
866.815.2527 toll free
www.environmentassoc.com
30 Years of Leadership in Healthy, High Performance Homes / Green Architecture
Design Counseling / Consulting / Architectural Design / Construction Documents / Construction Administration Services

 

**If the water heater is gas, make sure you don't eliminate it's outside air supply for combustion in your insulation /attic sealing efforts.

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Schmitt

To: hreg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 7:20 PM

Subject: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans

Hello,

 

I guess I have to start somewhere..So I will start with attic fans.

 

I live up near Cut-n-Shoot in the woods and I don’t get enough wind to see the old style turbines spin on my roof. I have added more sofit vents and still doesn’t seem to get them moving. So instead of replacing the turbins with new ones, Im looking into changing them out with 2 solar powered attic fans to help cool down the attic. I’m trying to find small PV projects to start with and work up to the bigger ones later after I get the house better insulated.

 

Right now this 2 story house is 2200 sq feet with the highest electric bill was at $134.00 this summer. I have been graphing my daily power usage and the highest was 82 KWh for one day. All the bulbs have been replaced with the Compact FL bulbs (60w version).  The attic has to have more insulation added. I was able to get insulation in 30% of the attic this summer. All the A/C ducts are in the way…will finish up this winter. The windows in this house are a step above the aluminum frame. They have double panes but are worthless….they will have to be updated soon. The good thing about this house is that the previous owner paid the money to have the interior walls insulated as well as the exterior but for some reason did a half rear job in the attic. The 30% I put in up there was to cover the corner that didn’t have any. After updating some appliances (washer/dryer, fridge and dish washer) I should be able to move up to the bigger projects.

 

Some questions I have are:

 

1. At what point (daily KWh usage) is a good point to start adding PV systems. Im thinking in terms of a hobby because off the A/C systems in Houston… you can’t really go off grid or can you? How does it work with the A/C power usage?
2. Where can I get some quality attic fans? What CFM is a good flow to have here in Houston?
3. Any Ideas on how to hook up a solar water heater that has the water heater situated on the first floor in the middle of the house? Can I use a plain insulated tank in the attic or do I need to tie into another water heater?
4. Anything else I’m missing?

 

Thanks in advance for your time!!!

 

Mike Schmitt

 

 

 

 

---
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Paul:

I have put my comments where they are within the body of John Miggins text
in HTML and in paranthesis so they will stand apart from the rest.

Hope this helps.  I wasn't aware of your situation.

LaVerne


----- Original Message -----
From: Environment Associates Architects
To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 10:25 PM
Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS


John:

See my comments in (paranthesis) below.  Also, what most people may not
realize is that I don't sell any construction products, building equipment,
solar, alternative or conventional energy products, so there is no vested
interest in the recommendations I make.  In other words, I don't make any
profit from the sale of the stuff I recommend.  Nor do I accept any
"referral fee"  compensation from those who do manufacturer or sell the
products I make in my recommendations.  I do this because I want all of my
clients to know I am looking out for their best interests, not how much
money I might pocket from what I recommend for their particular situation.
If for some reason you don't think I am up to date with what is available
out there, please educate me, as I would want my clients (and subsequently
you) to benefit from superior technology and design.

LaVerne A. Williams, AIA, LEED AP
architect & building ecologist
LaVerne@...
ENVIRONMENT ASSOCIATES, Architects & Consultants
5828 Langfield Road
Houston, TX 77092-1429
713.528.0000
866.815.2527 toll free
www.environmentassoc.com
30 Years of Leadership in Healthy, High Performance Homes / Green
Architecture
Design Counseling / Consulting / Architectural Design / Construction
Documents / Construction Administration Services
----- Original Message -----
From: John Miggins
To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 5:30 PM
Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS


Mike, we install lots of solar powered attic fans and I can tell you that
they do save you money because they have no ongoing cost to run and reduce
the attic temperature of homes from 20 to 30 degrees.

(But there is initial cost and lifecycle cost issues. What is their life
span?) Show me the tests that prove this much temperature drop along with
acceptable life cycle costs and I will become an advocate of solar powered
attic ventilation fans.)

  I don't see how this cannot save you money on cooling your home in the
summer. It also helps reduce moisture in the attic which can cause other
problems.

(Let's think about this. Generally, let's hope the air outside the attic is
more humid than the air already in the attic, (an exception perhaps being
after a dry cold front comes through) otherwise there is a basic
construction or operation problem here. So I don't see how bringing in more
humid outside air is going to make the attic less humid.)

  Soffit vents to create bottom to top air flow are essential. My experience
with ridge vents and soffet vents is that if there is not a suction or motor
pulling the air out they do very little good.

(That's the beauty of passive ventilation systems. They work by creating a
laminar-like flow below the roof deck that is spread out over a large area.
Plus it is removing the hottest air....the air right below the roof deck.
It's not like measuring the concentrated flow of air near a fan. Passive
ridge vents don't require any generated energy to run them, solar or
otherwise, other than the heat of the sun on the roof to create a thermal
chimney effect, i.e., hot air rises to create a draft. This draft is
enhanced when there is a breeze and the flow of the breeze over the ridges
creates a suction throught the Venturi effect.)

  Take a cigarette in the attic and check air flow before and after attic
fans, it is a good way to test real world conditions.

(When I did smoke a long time ago, I could always show my clients how the
draft was working with ridge & soffit vents. The only time it didn't was
when the ridge and soffit vents were not installed properly.......or it was
nighttime.)


It is common sense and I don't know if they were talking about attic fans
that ventillate from the living space or from the attic in the mentioned
study but if you have a 130 degree oven (your unventillated attic) over your
living space and most homes have their AC vents running through this hot
space that this heat transfers to your living space and to your AC. I
personally have measured the temp of the air coming out of AC vents in
attics and have seen a 2 to 3 degree difference within hours of installing
solar attic fans.

(2 or 3 degrees? You said 20 to 30 degrees in your 1st sentence. Which is
it?)


I have also had customers tell me that they used to keep thermostats at 74
and now, with attic fans and a cooler attic can keep their thermostat at 77.
Several repeat sales.
Not sure that solar attic (crawl space) ventillation units were around in
the 70's so not sure what was included in the aforementioned study 35 years
ago but I have hundreds of customers that will testify that they are a good
investment and have reduced their electric bill, especially in the summer.

(They weren't available then. Especially if there is a moisture problem with
a crawl space, this is a good application. However, the source of the
moisture should be addressed and eliminated if possible due to health
concerns)

  We put thermostats on the solar attic fans to cut on at 80 degrees and cut
off at 70 to save heat in the winter. You be the judge.
I agree that radiant barrier is a good investment as well, keep the heat out
in the first place and keeps your heat in.
Solar hot water can interface with existing water heaters by adding a
preheat tank that captures the hot solution from the roof panels (located in
the sun) and preheats the cold water going into your existing water heater.
It is better to add a new tank as well but that is not necessary.

(I concur. I especially like passive solar water heating systems that
include the storage tank. No freeze concerns as long as the solar collector
has a drain down provision. They do present some structural concerns and may
require some additional support. I do not, however, recommend mounting any
type of solar system on a composition shingle roof, because of the roof will
have to be replaced long before the solar system and removing and
reinstalling a solar system is too costly for most folks. This is the main
reason why you don't see any solar systems from the 70's & 80's still on
rooftops in Houston, as there were tens of thousands, if not more,
installed.)


We have units in stock if you are interested contact me offline they are
easy to install yourself if needed. Houston is an ideal market for this as
it is hot 8 months out of the year. (Did you purchase David Sawchak's
stock?)
regards
John Miggins
Harvest Solar & Wind Power
"renewable solutions to everyday needs"
www.harvest-energy.com
Phone/Fax 918-743-2299
Cell: 918-521-6223
----- Original Message -----
From: Environment Associates Architects
To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans OPPS
Opps. Please see my correction/comments below in ALL CAPS to my original
email.
LaVerne
----- Original Message -----
From: Environment Associates Architects
To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 12:29 PM
Subject: Re: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans
Mike:
Back in the 70's, a study was done in Houston by HUD (I think) regarding
attic fans versus other types of attic ventilation and the results came back
showing the

energy saved

  (in air conditioned homes) by attic ventilation fans for removing heat
didn't offset the amount of energy they used. So this study showed there was
no advantage to powered attic ventilation. This would also apply to PV
powered attic ventilation fans. It clearly showed that when it came to
ventilating attics in Houston, continuous ridge and soffit ventilation
performed best.
(Assuming you are using gas for heating** and that your furnace is located
in the attic where it needs combustion air supply from outside), continuous
ridge vents balanced with soffit ventilation proportionally located around
the entire perimeter of your house is your best option. If you have hip
roofs, you will have to run the ridge vents down the hips. I would use
Cor-A-Vent for the ridge and hip vents, following details you can get from
their website. The soffits vents can be any kind (even galvanized hardware
cloth). They must can be sized to balance the air admittance into the attic
so that the free inflow air flow area is equal to or greater than the free
exit area of the ridge vent area. In other words, don't put twice as much
soffit venting on the west side versus the east side of your roof. It has to
be evenly balanced around the house. Otherwise, you can get water intrusion
into your attic during blowing rains, not matter whose ridge vent system is
used.
Also, be sure to include insulation baffles in your plans so that the air
path from the soffit vents to the ridge vents isn't blocked by insulation.
If your house is all electric, you may want to consider insulating at the
roof and eliminating attic ventilation all together, as a lot of moisture is
added to the interior of your house from having ventilated attics. In this
area of the country, approx. half of your air-conditioning bill comes from
just removing the moisture for the air. While all this moisture obviously
doesn't just come through your ceilings, sheet rock and insulation are not
going to stop attic moisture from diffusing down into the interior space. So
eliminating the moisture from this source will not only help reduce your
energy bill, but can also provide a healthier indoor environment. Since dust
mites and molds thrive in high humidity environments, eliminating as many
possible sources for humidity intrusion into the interior of our homes is
prudent. However, insulating at the underside of the roof will cost more
initially.
Should you follow the ventilated attic path, if you haven't already stapled
a radiant barrier to the underside of your rafters or considered some other
means for adding a radiant barrier to the underside of your roof, it should
be considered a major component in your strategy to improve your home's
performance. If you decide to insulate with spray-in foam insulation on the
underside of the roof deck, then disregard the use of the radiant barrier.
Hope this helps.
LaVerne A. Williams, AIA, LEED AP
architect & building ecologist
LaVerne@...
ENVIRONMENT ASSOCIATES, Architects & Consultants
5828 Langfield Road
Houston, TX 77092-1429
713.528.0000
866.815.2527 toll free
www.environmentassoc.com
30 Years of Leadership in Healthy, High Performance Homes / Green
Architecture
Design Counseling / Consulting / Architectural Design / Construction
Documents / Construction Administration Services

**If the water heater is gas, make sure you don't eliminate it's outside air
supply for combustion in your insulation /attic sealing efforts.

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Schmitt
To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 11, 2004 7:20 PM
Subject: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans
Hello,
I guess I have to start somewhere..So I will start with attic fans.
I live up near Cut-n-Shoot in the woods and I don’t get enough wind to see
the old style turbines spin on my roof. I have added more sofit vents and
still doesn’t seem to get them moving. So instead of replacing the turbins
with new ones, Im looking into changing them out with 2 solar powered attic
fans to help cool down the attic. I’m trying to find small PV projects to
start with and work up to the bigger ones later after I get the house better
insulated.
Right now this 2 story house is 2200 sq feet with the highest electric bill
was at $134.00 this summer. I have been graphing my daily power usage and
the highest was 82 KWh for one day. All the bulbs have been replaced with
the Compact FL bulbs (60w version). The attic has to have more insulation
added. I was able to get insulation in 30% of the attic this summer. All the
A/C ducts are in the way…will finish up this winter. The windows in this
house are a step above the aluminum frame. They have double panes but are
worthless….they will have to be updated soon. The good thing about this
house is that the previous owner paid the money to have the interior walls
insulated as well as the exterior but for some reason did a half rear job in
the attic. The 30% I put in up there was to cover the corner that didn’t
have any. After updating some appliances (washer/dryer, fridge and dish
washer) I should be able to move up to the bigger projects.
Some questions I have are:
At what point (daily KWh usage) is a good point to start adding PV systems.
Im thinking in terms of a hobby because off the A/C systems in Houston… you
can’t really go off grid or can you? How does it work with the A/C power
usage?
Where can I get some quality attic fans? What CFM is a good flow to have
here in Houston?
Any Ideas on how to hook up a solar water heater that has the water heater
situated on the first floor in the middle of the house? Can I use a plain
insulated tank in the attic or do I need to tie into another water heater?
Anything else I’m missing?
Thanks in advance for your time!!!
Mike Schmitt







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[]


A weekly newsletter from the U.S. Department of Energy's (DOE)
<http://www.eere.energy.gov/>Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable
Energy (EERE). The EERE Network News is also available on the Web at:
<http://www.eere.energy.gov/news/>www.eere.energy.gov/news/


December 15, 2004




News and Events

     * Sam Bodman Nominated as Secretary of Energy
     * General Motors and DaimlerChrysler to Team Up on Hybrid Vehicles
     * Honda Debuts Its Third Hybrid Vehicle, the Accord Hybrid
     * Bay-Area Postal Facilities to Combine Efficiency, Fuel Cell, and
Solar Power
     * Major Corporations Buy 62 Megawatts of Green Power in 2004
     * Wood Products Companies in Oregon Achieve Big Energy Savings


Site News

     * Waste-to-Energy Research and Technology Council


Energy Connections

     * U.S. Dependence on Imported Energy to Grow by 2025
[]

[]



News and Events

Editor's Note: The EERE Network News will take the next two weeks off for
the holidays. We'll be back on January 5th; until then, we wish you a happy
and energy efficient holiday, with hope that the New Year brings you
renewed energy!


Sam Bodman Nominated as Secretary of Energy

[]


[]

Photo of Sam Bodman behind a podium, with President Bush lookin


Sam Bodman accepts President Bush's nomination.
Credit: Paul Morse, White House

President George W. Bush nominated Sam Bodman as the new Secretary of
Energy last week. Described by President Bush as a "problem solver," Bodman
has worked as a professor of chemical engineering at the Massachusetts
Institute of Technology, as the president of an investment firm, and as the
chairman and Chief Executive Officer of the Cabot Corporation, a global
chemical company. Over the past four years, Bodman has served the Bush
administration as Deputy Secretary of Commerce and Deputy Secretary of the
Treasury. At the Department of Commerce, Deputy Secretary Bodman had
oversight of three important science and technology agencies: the National
Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, the Patent and Trademark Office,
and the National Institute of Standards and Technology.

Both President Bush and Bodman expressed gratitude toward departing Energy
Secretary Spencer Abraham­the longest-serving Energy Secretary yet­who in
turn welcomed Bodman. See the press releases from the
<http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/12/20041210-3.html>White
House and
<http://www.energy.gov/engine/content.do?PUBLIC_ID=16982&BT_CODE=PR_PRESSRELEASE\
S&TT_CODE=PRESSRELEASE>DOE,
and see <http://www.commerce.gov/bios/bodman_bio.html>Bodman's biography on
the Department of Commerce Web site.

There has also been a change to the senior staff at DOE's Office of Energy
Efficiency and Renewable Energy (EERE). Douglas Kaempf is returning as
program manager for the Biomass Program, and three people are taking on
positions as acting program managers: David Rodgers for the Industrial
Technologies Program, Patricia Hoffman for the Federal Energy Management
Program, and Deborah Haught for the Distributed Energy Program. See the
revised EERE organization chart
(<http://www.eere.energy.gov/office_eere/pdfs/orgchart_05.pdf>PDF 92 KB).
<http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/alternate.html>Download Acrobat Reader.


General Motors and DaimlerChrysler to Team Up on Hybrid Vehicles

DaimlerChrysler AG (DCX) and General Motors Corporation (GM) announced on
Monday that they will work together to develop a hybrid propulsion system
for use in GM, Chrysler Group and Mercedes Car Group vehicles. Although
both companies have been working independently on their own hybrid
propulsion systems, they have signed a non-binding "memorandum of
understanding" for the joint hybrid project and intend to enter into a
definitive agreement in early 2005. See the
<http://www.media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.c\
om/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=3&docid=10158>GM
press release.

The companies will be working on a patent-protected hybrid system that
incorporates two electric motors into an electrically variable
transmission, creating a system that uses much smaller motors than today's
hybrid vehicles. The system appears to be modeled on a drive for buses and
other transit vehicles developed by Allison Transmission and used by GM in
its hybrid electric buses, since both the system under development and the
Allison system are described as "two-mode" hybrid systems. The Allison
system uses the electric power of the motors to accelerate from a stop,
then uses the engine to assist at higher speeds. At high speeds, the engine
will power the vehicle without help from the motors. Both the motors and
the engine can independently drive the wheels. See the
<http://www.allisontransmission.com/product/electricdrive/evdrive.jsp>descriptio\
n
of Allison's hybrid drive on the Allison Transmission Web site.


Honda Debuts Its Third Hybrid Vehicle, the Accord Hybrid

The 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid went on sale in the United States last week.
Honda's third hybrid vehicle carries a manufacturer's suggested retail
price (MSRP) of $29,990. The vehicle comes standard with a large number of
luxury add-ons that make it essentially equivalent (with the exception of a
moon roof) to a Honda Accord EX V-6, which carries an MSRP of $26,700.
Based on that comparison, the markup for the hybrid system is about $3,290.
The Accord Hybrid with a 5-speed automatic transmission has earned fuel
economy ratings from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) of 29
miles per gallon (mpg) in the city and 37 mpg on the highway.

The Accord Hybrid employs the third generation of Honda's hybrid propulsion
system in combination with its new cylinder deactivation technology, which
shuts down three of the cylinders while cruising. The vehicle generates 255
peak horsepower (hp)­6 percent more than the Accord V-6 Sedan­with "a
remarkably broad and flat torque curve," according to Honda. See the
<http://hondanews.com/CatID2128?mid=2004121041348&mime=asc>Honda press release.
[]

Photo of a room full of SMART cars undergoing modifications.


SMART cars are being upgraded to U.S. standards at a California facility in
preparation for going on sale in early 2005.Credit: ZAP

While Honda launches its largest and most powerful hybrid to date, ZAP, a
seller of advanced-technology vehicles, is preparing to market the tiny
SMART two-passenger vehicle in the United States. The vehicle is
manufactured in France by smart gmbh, a DaimlerChrysler company, and ZAP
has earned approval from the EPA and the U.S. Department of Transportation
to sell a modified version in the United States. The SMART features a
six-speed transmission and a 61-hp, 3-cylinder turbocharged engine.
Although ZAP claims the SMART achieves 60 mpg, EPA tests pegged it at 37
mpg. ZAP intends to start selling the SMART in early 2005 and is currently
auctioning off one vehicle on e-Bay. See the
<http://www.zapworld.com/about/news.asp>ZAP press releases and
<http://www.zapworld.com/cars/smartCar.asp>SMART Web page.


Bay-Area Postal Facilities to Combine Efficiency, Fuel Cell, and Solar Power

Chevron Energy Solutions announced in early December that it will complete
major energy efficiency upgrades and install a fuel cell and two solar
power systems at the U.S. Postal Service's largest mail processing and
distribution facilities in San Francisco: the San Francisco Processing and
Distribution Center and the Embarcadero Postal Center. The energy
efficiency measures will include new energy management and compressed air
systems, lighting retrofits, and upgrades to the heating, ventilation and
air conditioning systems. Chevron Energy Solutions will also upgrade the
Processing and Distribution Center with high-efficiency natural gas cooking
equipment for the cafeteria.

That facility will also host a new hybrid solar/fuel cell power plant
comprised of a 250-kilowatt fuel cell, a 100-kilowatt roof-mounted solar
power system, and a 185-kilowatt solar power system mounted on a parking
canopy that will track the sun. FuelCell Energy, Inc. will provide the fuel
cell.

The improvements at both facilities will cut power purchases by about 10
million kilowatt-hours­a 46 percent reduction. In addition, the energy
efficiency upgrades will reduce the heating needs by 69 percent at the San
Francisco Processing and Distribution Center and by 28 percent at the
Embarcadero Postal Center. See the press releases from
<http://www.chevronenergy.com/news_room/default.asp?pr=pr_20041201.asp>Chevron
Energy Solutions and
<http://ir.ccbn.com/ir.zhtml?t=FCEL&s=412&item_id=648858>FuelCell Energy.


Major Corporations Buy 62 Megawatts of Green Power in 2004

The World Resources Institute (WRI) announced last week that the members of
its Green Power Market Development Group have bought 62 megawatts (MW) of
electricity from renewable energy sources over the past year. The Green
Power Group is a WRI project that established a unique partnership
dedicated to building corporate markets for green power. Its members are
Alcoa Inc., Cargill Dow LLC, Delphi Corporation, The Dow Chemical Company,
DuPont, FedEx Kinko's, General Motors Corporation, IBM, Interface Inc.,
Johnson & Johnson, Pitney Bowes, and Staples.

The 62 MW of green power­enough to power 46,000 homes­represents purchases
made for more than 80 facilities in 18 states. It includes 39 MW of
certified renewable energy credits (supporting 21 MW of biomass power and
18 MW of wind power), 21 MW of power from landfill gas (supported by DuPont
and Johnson & Johnson), and 2 MW of wind and solar power installed at
facilities owned by Johnson & Johnson and IBM. In addition, Staples is
installing two 280-kilowatt solar power systems at facilities in
California. According to WRI, five of the Green Power Group members now
draw on renewable energy for 10 percent or more of their power needs in the
United States. See the
<http://climate.wri.org/newsrelease_text.cfm?NewsReleaseID=313>WRI press
release.


Wood Products Companies in Oregon Achieve Big Energy Savings

Three wood products companies in Oregon have proven that there are many
routes to energy savings. Roseburg Forest Products installed a new "rolling
screen" system to sort wood pieces for manufacturing particleboard,
replacing steam-driven refiners and saving about 22 million kilowatt-hours
of electricity per year. Cascade Wood Products installed new systems for
dust collection, air compression, and lighting, saving nearly 2 million
kilowatt-hours per year. Both companies received financial incentives from
the Energy Trust of Oregon and expect to receive Business Energy Tax
Credits and other rebates from the State of Oregon. Weyerhouser Company
also saved about 1.3 million kilowatt-hours per year at its sawmill in
Coburg by upgrading the facility's compressed air system. That success
story is documented in a BestPractices Case Study, produced by DOE's
Industrial Technologies Program. See the Energy Trust of Oregon press
release
(<http://www.energytrust.org/Pages/about/library/news/041213_RoseburgCascade.pdf\
>PDF
34 KB) and the BestPractices Case Study
(<http://www.oit.doe.gov/bestpractices/factsheets/bp_cs_weyerhaeuser.pdf>PDF
385 KB). <http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/alternate.html>Download
Acrobat Reader.

With today's high cost of energy, all types of industries are pursuing
energy-saving projects. For instance, the Gas Technology Institute (GTI) is
testing a gas-fired paper dryer at Liberty Paper Inc., a paper manufacturer
in Minnesota. According to GTI, that technology could cut energy use at
paper mills by 7 percent. Ohio recently presented its Awards for Excellence
in Energy Efficiency, and included among the winners was Anheuser Busch,
Inc., which is generating methane from its brewery wastewater and feeding
it back into its boilers. In 2003, the system collected more than 200
million cubic feet of methane gas. Delphi Corporation also won an award for
its plastic injection molding facility. By replacing its molding machines
with all-electric models, it saved 11.7 million kilowatt-hours per year.
See the press releases from
<http://www.gastechnology.org/webroot/app/xn/xd.aspx?it=enweb&xd=6newsroom\stacp\
aperdryergrant.xml>GTI
and the <http://www.odod.state.oh.us/newsroom/releases/1113.asp>Ohio
Department of Development.

Looking ahead, DOE's Industrial Technologies Program just selected six
facilities for plant-wide assessments, which investigate energy-saving
opportunities and projects. The facilities include a synthetic fiber plant
in South Carolina, owned by Shaw Industries Group, Inc.; a cement plant in
Arizona, owned by the California Portland Cement Company; a fiberglass
plant in Ohio, owned by Johns Manville; a chemical plant in West Virginia,
owned by PPG Industries; a chicken processing plant in Texas, owned by
Pilgrim's Pride Corporation; and 10 die casting plants owned by eight
companies. See the
<http://www.eere.energy.gov/industry/news/news_detail.html/news_id=8686>announce\
ment
from the Industrial Technologies Program.
[]

[]



Site News




<http://www.seas.columbia.edu/earth/wtert/>Waste-to-Energy Research and
Technology Council

The Waste-to-Energy Research and Technology Council (WTERT) is an
organization of industry, government, and university researchers that works
to advance the economic and environmental performance of waste-to-energy
technologies. Its <http://www.seas.columbia.edu/earth/wtert/>Web site
offers answers to frequently asked questions, research, and links to
international industry contacts.
[]



Energy Connections




U.S. Dependence on Imported Energy to Grow by 2025

A growing U.S. thirst for oil and natural gas will draw increasingly on
foreign imports over the next 20 years, according to the DOE's Energy
Information Administration (EIA). The EIA's "Annual Energy Outlook 2005,"
released last week, says that by 2025, as much as 68 percent of the U.S.
petroleum demand could depend on imported oil, up from 56 percent in 2003.
Meanwhile, U.S. natural gas consumption will increase by 9 trillion cubic
feet, a 41 percent increase, of which 6.4 trillion cubic feet are expected
to come from imported liquefied natural gas (LNG). That will cause LNG
imports to increase 16-fold from the 2003 level of 0.4 trillion cubic feet.
Meanwhile, the amount of electricity produced from renewable
energy­including large-scale hydropower and combined heat and power
generation­is projected to grow only 1.4 percent per year, increasing from
359 billion kilowatt-hours in 2003 to 489 billion kilowatt-hours in 2025.
See the <http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/press/press244.html>EIA press release
and the early release of the
"<http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/index.html>Annual Energy Outlook 2005."
[]


This newsletter is funded by DOE's <http://www.eere.energy.gov/>Office of
Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy (EERE) and is also available on the
<http://www.eere.energy.gov/news/>EERE news page. You can
<http://www.eere.energy.gov/news/about.cfm>subscribe to the EERE Network
News using our simple online form, and you can also
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If you have questions or comments about this newsletter, please
<http://www.eere.energy.gov/news/editor.cfm>contact the editor.
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You are currently subscribed as: tomgray@...

the Paint works fine (practical experiance with it), but as far as 'more
cost-effective than other radiant barriers', that could be debated forever.

In a remodel situation, maby, in new construction, maby not, depends mostly
on installation labor.

At 02:54 PM 12/14/2004 -0600, you wrote:
>           It sounds like snake oil but I have an experienced remodeling
>contractor / brother who has applied it and swears by it.
>-----Original Message-----
> From: J. P. Malone [mailto:JPMALONE@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2004 12:07 PM
> To: hreg@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [hreg] Solar Attic Fans     Is radiant barrier paint (see link
>below) more cost-effective than other radiant barriers or solar attic fans.
>          http://www.hytechsales.com/prod85.html             J. Patrick
>Malone
>
>
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