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  • Members: 416
  • Founded: Feb 9, 2000
  • Language: English
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#309 From: "Charles T. Thorn" <thorn@...>
Date: Tue Apr 10, 2001 1:47 pm
Subject: Re: Barkley
thorn@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Jan,

I've reconsidered my Hard policy of marking the maps with red.  For a
limited time only, I will mark a number of maps in pink and in lime (just
for you).  The down side is that the marked course you get will not be the
course you want to follow.

Charlie

>Charlie,
>   If Bob(not an ultralist member) Boeder gets a map with pink markings can
>I have one lime-yellow no scratch that, international orange.  This is all
>going in my  report Bob!
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "robert boeder" <boedr@...>
>To: <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 5:43 PM
>Subject: [hr100] Barkley
>
>
>> I understand that some of our HRH champs did pretty well at Barkley this
>> year. At the risk of offending the list police, can Blake or David or Sue
>or
>> Johnny D give us a brief report on their exploits? Thanks, Bob (not an
>> ultralist member) Boeder. PS And Charlie, can you mark my course map in
>> pink? I'm sick of the same old black and blue.
>>
>>
>> To Post a message, send it to:   hr100@eGroups.com
>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>
>
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>
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#310 From: Stevan Pattillo <spat@...>
Date: Tue Apr 10, 2001 2:29 pm
Subject: Re: Barkley
spat@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Charlie, "The process is moving," as in moving through a bowel-like body?
When the final "output" emerges Will we be able to differentiate our input
from that of others involved?
Ah, government, or the big bowel as it is know around here.
Steve

#311 From: "Charles T. Thorn" <thorn@...>
Date: Tue Apr 10, 2001 2:47 pm
Subject: Re: Barkley
thorn@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Yes, this is an interesting analgy.  Sorta like what I need to do after
about 20 miles into the Hardrock but the RD is too cheap to put out porta
potties every mile.

Charlie

>Charlie, "The process is moving," as in moving through a bowel-like body?
>When the final "output" emerges Will we be able to differentiate our input
>from that of others involved?
>Ah, government, or the big bowel as it is know around here.
>Steve
>
>To Post a message, send it to:   hr100@eGroups.com
>
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>
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#312 From: dale garland <ddmb@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 3:44 am
Subject: Re: Barkley
ddmb@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Charlie, I would be willing to put in a roll of TP or the latest  set of
federal government budget worksheets (your choice) in every runners
entry bag!
The RD

"Charles T. Thorn" wrote:
>
> Yes, this is an interesting analgy.  Sorta like what I need to do after
> about 20 miles into the Hardrock but the RD is too cheap to put out porta
> potties every mile.
>
> Charlie
>
> >Charlie, "The process is moving," as in moving through a bowel-like body?
> >When the final "output" emerges Will we be able to differentiate our input
> >from that of others involved?
> >Ah, government, or the big bowel as it is know around here.
> >Steve
> >
> >To Post a message, send it to:   hr100@eGroups.com
> >
> >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   hr100@eGroups.com
>
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>
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#313 From: Carl Jess <cjess100@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 1:48 pm
Subject: Re: Barkley
cjess100@...
Send Email Send Email
 
--- dale garland <ddmb@...> wrote:
> Charlie, I would be willing to put in a roll of TP
> or the latest  set of
> federal government budget worksheets (your choice)
> in every runners
> entry bag!
> The RD
>


If you do make sure that the worksheets are printed on
recycled paper.  Maybe that will help the CEC accept
HRH as an environmentally friendly race.



=====
Carl Jess
Bloomfield, NM

__________________________________________________
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#314 From: "Charles T. Thorn" <thorn@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 7:28 pm
Subject: Re: Barkley
thorn@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Dale, etal,

I just invented the perfect solution that technology can provide.  It's a
double outhouse in bunk style.  I believe this solution will provide
adequate throughput as well as economy of scale.  Please arrange to put one
every other mile beginning about mile 20.

Thanks

Charlie

>Charlie, I would be willing to put in a roll of TP or the latest  set of
>federal government budget worksheets (your choice) in every runners
>entry bag!
>The RD
>
>"Charles T. Thorn" wrote:
>>
>> Yes, this is an interesting analgy.  Sorta like what I need to do after
>> about 20 miles into the Hardrock but the RD is too cheap to put out porta
>> potties every mile.
>>
>> Charlie
>>
>> >Charlie, "The process is moving," as in moving through a bowel-like body?
>> >When the final "output" emerges Will we be able to differentiate our input
>> >from that of others involved?
>> >Ah, government, or the big bowel as it is know around here.
>> >Steve
>> >
>> >To Post a message, send it to:   hr100@eGroups.com
>> >
>> >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>> >
>> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>>
>> To Post a message, send it to:   hr100@eGroups.com
>>
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>>
>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
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>
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#315 From: "Charles T. Thorn" <thorn@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 8:25 pm
Subject: Hardrock Snow Report 01-4
thorn@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello All,

Here's the latest snow report for Hardrock.  I was in Silverton over the
weekend, dodging avalanches and watching horizontal snow.  There seemed to
be a lot of it.  The Coal Bank snow gauge showed about 6 feet and at Molas
the gauge was at 4.75 feet.  However, Snotel reports indicate that Colorado
San Juan Mountain snowpack is about normal for this time of year.

I'll see you in the high country.

	 Unofficial Seasonal Snowfall in Inches
	 Silverton, CO, Elevation 9320
Year     Dec1     Jan1     Feb1     Mar1
	 Apr1     May1     Jun1
91-92 51.75 66.25 76.25 91.25 124.75 131.25 131.25
92-93 39.5 64 140 228 249 265 272.5
93-94 22 34 44.5 80 89 128.5 130.5
94-95 71 85.5 115 147 207.5 224 242.5
95-96 21 34 77 105.5 121 133 133
96-97 48.5 78 132.5 153 160 178 179
97-98 30 49 71.5 84.5 125 144.5 150
98-99 46.1 62 89.6 102.4 114.2 159 190.4
99-00 3.0 18.1 42.5 83.2 152.4 165.5 165.5
00-01 32.8 51.5 79.4 114.0 137.3

Charlie Thorn
thorn@...

#316 From: "LaForme" <RLAFORME@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 8:29 pm
Subject: Re: Barkley
RLAFORME@...
Send Email Send Email
 
It must be the strong underlying primitive instincts of territorial marking
that cause so many otherwise seemingly "evolved" human males to be facinated
by scatology.
Ginny LaForme
Espanola,NM
rlaforme@...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles T. Thorn" <thorn@...>
To: <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 1:28 PM
Subject: Re: [hr100] Barkley


> Dale, etal,
>
> I just invented the perfect solution that technology can provide.  It's a
> double outhouse in bunk style.  I believe this solution will provide
> adequate throughput as well as economy of scale.  Please arrange to put
one
> every other mile beginning about mile 20.
>
> Thanks
>
> Charlie
>
> >Charlie, I would be willing to put in a roll of TP or the latest  set of
> >federal government budget worksheets (your choice) in every runners
> >entry bag!
> >The RD
> >
> >"Charles T. Thorn" wrote:
> >>
> >> Yes, this is an interesting analgy.  Sorta like what I need to do after
> >> about 20 miles into the Hardrock but the RD is too cheap to put out
porta
> >> potties every mile.
> >>
> >> Charlie
> >>
> >> >Charlie, "The process is moving," as in moving through a bowel-like
body?
> >> >When the final "output" emerges Will we be able to differentiate our
input
> >> >from that of others involved?
> >> >Ah, government, or the big bowel as it is know around here.
> >> >Steve
> >> >
> >> >To Post a message, send it to:   hr100@eGroups.com
> >> >
> >> >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
> >> >
> >> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >>
> >> To Post a message, send it to:   hr100@eGroups.com
> >>
> >> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
> >>
> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >To Post a message, send it to:   hr100@eGroups.com
> >
> >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
> >
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>
>
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>
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>
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>

#317 From: "Feucht, Andrea L." <andrea@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 10:41 pm
Subject: FW: [ULTRA] Hadrock Pacer Available
andrea@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Just received this pacer notification.  Please note, he can only walk, so
may be a good choice for back of the packers near the end of the race.

Andrea, in ABQ
alf@... <mailto:alf@...>
http://tenacity.net


-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Audretsch [mailto:bob41@...]
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2001 4:24 PM
To: ULTRA@...
Subject: [ULTRA] Hadrock Pacer Available


I am available to pace at Hardrock but because of a neck injury must mostly
walk.  I have run a large part of the course and did pace Hal Winton in, I
believe, 1996.  Contact me off line if interested ---

Bob Audretsch (ultrawalker)
bob41@...

#318 From: "Feucht, Andrea L." <andrea@...>
Date: Wed Apr 11, 2001 10:47 pm
Subject: FW: [ULTRA] pacer for Hardrock
andrea@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Don't know if I forwarded this one already, so I'm trying again.

Andrea, in ABQ
alf@... <mailto:alf@...>
http://tenacity.net


-----Original Message-----
From: rickie redland [mailto:redland@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2001 9:05 PM
To: ULTRA@...
Subject: [ULTRA] pacer for Hardrock


I am looking for a pacer for Hardrock. If interested please
contact me off list.
Thank-you.
Rickie

#319 From: Stevan Pattillo <spat@...>
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2001 2:43 pm
Subject: Re: Barkley
spat@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hey! Hey! Was that an insult? I think we men may not be as highly evolved
as she thinks.
Maybe "de-volved" is a better descriptor. I know that after about fifty
miles I feel like I'm mantally back with the flat worms..
Steve Pattillo

#320 From: GEH@...
Date: Thu Apr 12, 2001 4:03 pm
Subject: Re: Barkley
GEH@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Good point Steve- I know that toward the end of HR I am not quite clear what my gender is (or why it used to matter...).

Gordon Hardman

Stevan Pattillo wrote:

Hey! Hey! Was that an insult? I think we men may not be as highly evolved
as she thinks.
Maybe "de-volved" is a better descriptor. I know that after about fifty
miles I feel like I'm mantally back with the flat worms..
Steve Pattillo


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#321 From: "LaForme" <RLAFORME@...>
Date: Fri Apr 13, 2001 3:53 pm
Subject: Re: Barkley
RLAFORME@...
Send Email Send Email
 
No, Steve,
It wasn't an insult, it was a compliment. I think its really important to
preserve our primitive instincts and channel them into useful activities,
such as course marking, or even book placement (in extreme cases). I just
had a sort of epiphany about where male persons find the drive to expend so
much energy doing these things.Territorial instincts are obviously still
strong and I'd much rather see them gratified in creative ways than in old
fashioned duking it out.
Ginny LaForme
Espanola,NM
rlaforme@...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stevan Pattillo" <spat@...>
To: <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: [hr100] Barkley


> Hey! Hey! Was that an insult? I think we men may not be as highly evolved
> as she thinks.
> Maybe "de-volved" is a better descriptor. I know that after about fifty
> miles I feel like I'm mantally back with the flat worms..
> Steve Pattillo
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   hr100@eGroups.com
>
> To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: hr100-unsubscribe@eGroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

#322 From: robert boeder <boedr@...>
Date: Sat Apr 14, 2001 12:48 am
Subject: Barkley
boedr@...
Send Email Send Email
 
For those of you who are not addicted to the ultra list I've found two
descriptions of this year's Barkley event on David Horton's web site,
www.extremeultrarunning.com. One is a short, typically self-effacing article
by Blake Wood, the other is a longer, typically...well, typical, piece by
David. Both have vowed never to enter the Barkley ever again. Ya, right.
Steve Pero has also written about his experience in Tennessee.

#323 From: Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...>
Date: Sat Apr 14, 2001 2:26 am
Subject: Re: Barkley
matmahoney@...
Send Email Send Email
 
--- robert boeder <boedr@...> wrote:
> For those of you who are not addicted to the ultra
> list I've found two
> descriptions of this year's Barkley event on David
> Horton's web site,
> www.extremeultrarunning.com. One is a short,
> typically self-effacing article
> by Blake Wood, the other is a longer,
> typically...well, typical, piece by
> David. Both have vowed never to enter the Barkley
> ever again. Ya, right.
> Steve Pero has also written about his experience in
> Tennessee.

I have links to all of these plus photos and results
at http://mmahoney.teejay.net/barkley/

>
>


=====
-- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...

__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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#324 From: "Rich Limacher" <thetroubadour@...>
Date: Sat Apr 14, 2001 8:02 pm
Subject: Re: Barkley
thetroubadour@...
Send Email Send Email
 
This, from her poem, just about says it all.

(And, notice, Chaennnon does in five lines what it took me
to do in about 5,000! :)



"Have you not heard the rumor?
So clean. So fine.
I AM BARKLEY!
THE BARKLEY!
I eat my young alive."

      --Çhaennnon, Sacrificial Virgin, Barkley 2001


Well done, my courageous youthful fellow "lunch"!  :-)
Very well done indeed!

And what a pleasure now finally to have made your
acquaintance!

Yours troubly,
Barkley scRitch


----- Original Message -----
From: Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...>
To: <hr100@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, April 13, 2001 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: [hr100] Barkley


>
> --- robert boeder <boedr@...> wrote:
> > <stuff>
> > <about the stuff others wrote>
>
> I have links to all <this stuff> plus photos and results
> at http://mmahoney.teejay.net/barkley/
>

And well done, as well, to The Sockless Wonder himself!!!

:-)

> =====
> -- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...

#325 From: Tom Hayes <thayes@...>
Date: Sat Apr 14, 2001 11:46 pm
Subject: Cabin Available near Silverton
thayes@...
Send Email Send Email
 
I just cancelled a reservation for the week leading up to Hardrock freeing
up a Skihut near Silverton.  It is midway between Silverton and Ouray I
believe.  Big advantage is that it is at 11,500 feet.  No running water but
does have a propane stove and fridge.  Spring is a mile away.  Sleeps two
in a private bedroom and then 6 or so more in a loft.  Reasonable rates.
  Contact Dave at skihuts@....  There is a webpage whose address I
forgot but you can access it via the Silverton Lodging links.  I think it
is called Red Mountain Lodge or cabins or something like that.

Tom Hayes
Bozeman, Montana

#326 From: Tom Hayes <thayes@...>
Date: Tue Apr 17, 2001 12:28 am
Subject: Another Hotel in Silverton with Vacancy
thayes@...
Send Email Send Email
 
When I posted the message about canceling my reservations at the Ski Hut on
Red Mountain Pass I did not yet have permission from the owners of the Avon
Hotel to post their names and address.  They have some rooms with private
baths for $50 - 60 night available in the heart of Silverton.  We got a
great deal on a room with the bath down the hall which is why we cancelled
the more rustic place with no running water at all (and more isolated from
everybody else).  But all the shared bath, cheap, rooms are now reserved.

Their preferred medium is email but here is the info.

Tom and Stephanie Burrell
      1134 Madison NE
      Salem, Oregon 97303
      tburrl@...
      503-399-9547

Tom Hayes
Bozeman, Montana

#327 From: "jan gnass" <jgnass@...>
Date: Wed Apr 25, 2001 2:48 pm
Subject: e-mail address correction
jgnass@...
Send Email Send Email
 
following is a correction to my e mail address as listed on the HR entrants list.
 
Jan Gnass, Bishop, CA
jgnass@...

#328 From: "Feucht, Andrea L." <andrea@...>
Date: Wed May 2, 2001 5:17 pm
Subject: FW: Pacing for Hardrock?
andrea@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Enclosed is a message from a potential pacer.  Her email is included, and
her phone number, if you would like to offer her a chance to help you out.
Thanks.

Andrea

>----- Original Message -----
>From: Lisa Wirth <lisawirth@...>
>To: <jleithau@...>
>Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 10:31 AM
>Subject: Pacing for Hardrock?
>
>
>> Hi
>>
>> I would like some information on pacing at Hardrock. I am currently in
>> training for Leadville this year, and I'd like to get some good
>experience,
>> while helping someone else actually do the race :-)
>> Could you let me know if there is still space available for pacers, how
>I'd
>> go about applying and any other information you have?
>>
>> Thanks!!
>> Lisa Wirth
>> 303-898-1429

#329 From: dale garland <ddmb@...>
Date: Tue May 8, 2001 3:17 am
Subject: Hello Hardrockers!
ddmb@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Just a quick update for everyone.
	 I've had a few phone calls regarding runners manuals. The 2001 manual
will be mailed out within the next 2 weeks. Included in this mail out
will be a marked map of the course, course marking schedule and other
relevant info.
	 We had a foot of snow this weekend in Silverton but the past couple of
days have melted it away. Snow level is about average for this time of
year.
	 Patagonia will be providing capilene shirts for this years entrants.
Thanks to Craig Holloway for helping set this up.
	 Hope everyone's training is going smoothly and we are looking forward
to a great run in July.

If we can help with anything let us know.
Dale Garland
RD, HRH

#330 From: rickie redland <redland@...>
Date: Wed May 9, 2001 1:34 am
Subject: Re: Hello Hardrockers!
redland@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Dale, Do we women get small tee shirts that fit???
Rickie Redland
Hardrock yearning.....

dale garland wrote:

> Just a quick update for everyone.
>         I've had a few phone calls regarding runners manuals. The 2001 manual
> will be mailed out within the next 2 weeks. Included in this mail out
> will be a marked map of the course, course marking schedule and other
> relevant info.
>         We had a foot of snow this weekend in Silverton but the past couple of
> days have melted it away. Snow level is about average for this time of
> year.
>         Patagonia will be providing capilene shirts for this years entrants.
> Thanks to Craig Holloway for helping set this up.
>         Hope everyone's training is going smoothly and we are looking forward
> to a great run in July.
>
> If we can help with anything let us know.
> Dale Garland
> RD, HRH
>
> To Post a message, send it to:   hr100@eGroups.com
>
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>
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#331 From: "Charles T. Thorn" <thorn@...>
Date: Wed May 9, 2001 2:24 pm
Subject: Hardrock Snow Report 01-5
thorn@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Below is the snowfall status as of May 1, 2001.  Snowfall looks to be about
normal.  However, there was a significant dump during the weekend of May
4-6.  If you want more detailed climate and weather information, I found
the Snotel site that provides historical and near real time data for
temperature, total precipitation, and snow water content for many stations
in the West.  Stations located close to Silverton include Molas, Mineral
Creek, and Red Mountain.  The URL is:  http://www.wrcc.dri.edu/snotel.html
I've printed the detailed charts for these three stations since 1991 and
they will be available in Silverton.

Charlie Thorn
thorn@...

	 Unofficial Seasonal Snowfall in Inches
	 Silverton, CO, Elevation 9320
Year     Dec1     Jan1     Feb1     Mar1
	 Apr1     May1     Jun1
91-92 51.75 66.25 76.25 91.25 124.75 131.25 131.25
92-93 39.5 64 140 228 249 265 272.5
93-94 22 34 44.5 80 89 128.5 130.5
94-95 71 85.5 115 147 207.5 224 242.5
95-96 21 34 77 105.5 121 133 133
96-97 48.5 78 132.5 153 160 178 179
97-98 30 49 71.5 84.5 125 144.5 150
98-99 46.1 62 89.6 102.4 114.2 159 190.4
99-00 3.0 18.1 42.5 83.2 152.4 165.5 165.5
00-01 32.8 51.5 79.4 114.0 137.3 169.3

Charlie Thorn
thorn@...

#332 From: dale garland <ddmb@...>
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 2:26 pm
Subject: Manuals
ddmb@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi everybody,
We hope everybody's training is going well and we are looking forward to
seeing all of you in July. The runners manuals for all entrants went out
in the mail today. I apologize for any inconveneience this may have
caused but I was waiting as long as I could  to let everyone know the
status of the course change around Handies. What course change you ask?
Guess you'll have to read the manual to find out.
See you all in July!
Dale Garland

#333 From: reno_debra@...
Date: Wed May 30, 2001 2:35 pm
Subject: RE: Manuals
reno_debra@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Course change?????  This is how you keep an ultrarunner in suspense!!
Thanks, Dale, for all the hard work.. now we have to wait to have the
mystery revealed!
deb r.

> >


-----Original Message-----
From: dale garland [mailto:ddmb@...]
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 10:27 AM
To: hr100@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [hr100] Manuals


Hi everybody,
We hope everybody's training is going well and we are looking forward to
seeing all of you in July. The runners manuals for all entrants went out
in the mail today. I apologize for any inconveneience this may have
caused but I was waiting as long as I could  to let everyone know the
status of the course change around Handies. What course change you ask?
Guess you'll have to read the manual to find out.
See you all in July!
Dale Garland

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#334 From: Matt Mahoney <matmahoney@...>
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 3:14 am
Subject: Re: Manuals
matmahoney@...
Send Email Send Email
 
--- dale garland <ddmb@...> wrote:
> status of the course change around Handies. What
> course change you ask?

Aren't we taking the jeep road down to Sherman instead
of Upchuck Ridge?  I expect some records to be broken.


=====
-- Matt Mahoney, matmahoney@...

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#335 From: "Marc Witkes" <marcwitkes@...>
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 10:30 am
Subject: Course Manual "Special Delivery"!
marcwitkes@...
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More public appreciation to Dale Garland and the rest of the HardRock race
organization committee:

The manual, information and special T-shirt was hand-delivered to me
yesterday by Dale. GREAT JOB!

You have truly made a postive difference in mine and many other's lives.

Thank-you,

Marc Witkes

(I live right here in Durango and am always so happy to see Dale around
town!)
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#336 From: Stevan Pattillo <spat@...>
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 5:00 pm
Subject: cattle-route change
spat@...
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Perhaps there will be a new breed of cattle for those steep slopes John is
going to take us accross. In this age of genetic engineering how about a
house-fly/ Holstein cross ? Steve Pattillo

#337 From: "Charles T. Thorn" <thorn@...>
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 7:34 pm
Subject: Pacer Available
thorn@...
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Hello All,

I got an email from Robin Fry who wants to pace a 2001 Hardrock runner.  If
you need a pacer, contact him off the list at:  runamok@...

Thanks

Charlie Thorn

#338 From: GEH@...
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 8:15 pm
Subject: Re: cattle-route change
GEH@...
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Or maybe mountain goat/Humvee?

Gordon

Stevan Pattillo wrote:

Perhaps there will be a new breed of cattle for those steep slopes John is
going to take us accross. In this age of genetic engineering how about a
house-fly/ Holstein cross ? Steve Pattillo


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