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  • Founded: Jul 26, 1999
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#24712 From: cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@...>
Date: Wed Oct 1, 2008 9:15 am
Subject: RE: info from frank aquino -- school bus problem -- dropping children off unannounced without confirming adult presence
CynthiaVaillancourt@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Ray,
Welcome to the other side of the looking glass. 

There was a time when this kind of disconnect appeared to be intentional and nefarious. The BOE was complicit in the efforts of the former superintendent to eliminate the pesky public from having a voice or even a view into the workings of our public school system... which may help you understand why the remaining members from that era will continue to be suspect in my mind.

At this time I suspect the disconnect is largely a "three card monte" trick that continues to be used by some folks at HCPSS with the (hopefully) unwitting participation of the BOE. 

BOE members "think" they have developed a policy that represents the values of the community....they pass along this "directive" to their only "employee" -the superintendent- and charge him with implementing the policy AS INTENDED.... he and his staff develop regulations and procedures which may or may not represent the intent of the policy .... when the public finally becomes aware of a pattern of action which is NOT in line with the policy the public and the BOE think they have agreed upon a drustrating and insulting dance ensues .... the public "complains" to the BOE - the BOE points to the applicable "policy" - the public tries to point out that in spite of the existence of said "official policy" the "effective policy" is quite different.... the BOE says they'll look into it ... the HCPSS does some hemming and hawing .... time passes ... people forget .... HCPSS continues to do whatever they have decided to do in spite of the intent of the existing "official policy" .... 

This dance is repeated on a regular basis like in the case of dangerous school bus incidents. 

I'm willing to give most of the current BOE the benefit of the doubt that they are not INTENTIONALLY trying to pat us on the head while they allow HCPSS to operate on a different program. 

Unfortunately I suspect there are still folks at HCPSS who continue to operate with an "unofficial" agenda and continue to use this sadly successful tactic --- and our elected BOE continues to "allow" it... or be "taken in" by it.

Cindy V
  




To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
From: rl.edu@...
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2008 23:49:26 -0400
Subject: Re: [howardpubliced] info from frank aquino -- school bus problem -- dropping children off unannounced without confirming adult presence

> policy 5200 is a general policy and does not cover what happened to my
>  children but there are procedures in place with in each department.

Silly me. I thought a policy was a policy. Apparently I was wrong, and
a "general policy" is not a policy and doesn't have to be followed. It
seems that procedures are allowed violate a "general policy."

I am guessing that there are other policies where the BoE would object
if procedures violated the policy. Let's call them "real" policies.

How can the public tell which policies are "general" and which are real?

I suppose if we have documented proof of a procedure that violates a
policy, that demonstrates that the policy is "general" and therefore
safe to violate.
--
Ray Lischner




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#24713 From: "nanette_schweitzer" <NanetteMS@...>
Date: Wed Oct 1, 2008 4:29 pm
Subject: BOE questions for Allen and Diane
nanette_schw...
Send Email Send Email
 
I have a couple of questions for Allen and Diane regarding the BOE;

1.  How many hours a week, do you believe you would spend working on
BOE business?

2.To me, this BOE has been the best BOE we have had in a long time.They
are pleasant and cordial to each other even when they disagree, and
they are respectful to those that come before them at Board meetings.
How do you see yourself getting along with the BOE if you are elected?

3. What would be your priorities be and what do you want to see changed?

Nanette

#24714 From: "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...>
Date: Thu Oct 2, 2008 9:48 pm
Subject: Allen's answers to Nanette's "BOE questions for Allen and Diane"
aldyeraldyer
Send Email Send Email
 
----- Original Message -----
From: nanette_schweitzer
Subject: [howardpubliced] BOE questions for Allen and Diane

> I have a couple of questions for Allen and Diane regarding the BOE;
>
> 1.  How many hours a week, do you believe you would spend working on
>      BOE business?

hi nanette,
i see serving on the board of education as being at least as demanding as
a half time job.  i would expect to spend at least 20 hours a week on
board duties.  i am hopeful that many of those duties (research, coorespondence,
drafting, telephone calls, etc.) can be performed at my home office workspace.
i also hope to provide some sort of on-going online narrative of exactly what i
am
doing as a board member (however boring that may be) in order to improve
the transparency of the board operations and give future board candidates
a better idea of what they are getting into.


> 2.To me, this BOE has been the best BOE we have had in a long time.They
> are pleasant and cordial to each other even when they disagree, and
> they are respectful to those that come before them at Board meetings.
> How do you see yourself getting along with the BOE if you are elected?

i agree with your evaluation of the current members of the board.  the current
board members are doing a good job of treating the community, and each other,
with respect.  i have had cordial interactions with all of the current members
of
the board and i don't see any problem working with any of them or, for that
matter,
with any of the current board candidates either.

but, treating people with respect and being civil is NOT the same thing
as agreeing with them.  i remain concerned that the existing board members
do not have enough open discussions of the various issues.  i hope to
add to the robustness with which various options and perspectives are
discussed during public meetings of the board.  i like to talk about public
education issues and i am always willing to present different perspectives.

i believe in the cacophony of democracy.


> 3. What would be your priorities be and what do you want to see changed?
>  Nanette

i believe the top priority of the board should be the elimination of the
achievement
gap.  our county is very fortunate to have so many resources available and i
hope
our teachers, administrators, students, parents and board members are going to
prove that, working together, it is possible to eliminate the achievement gap.

thank you for your questions.

allen dyer
candidate for board of education









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#24715 From: "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...>
Date: Fri Oct 3, 2008 4:53 am
Subject: Fw: BOE forum last night
aldyeraldyer
Send Email Send Email
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 8:26 AM
Subject: BOE forum last night

Allen and Ellen,
 
I would like clarification on the Mt. Hebron "greening or lack of it" that was discussed last night since you both differed.  Please let me know your sources so I can check it out. 
 
Please remember us "old folks" - School building is a hot topic among those who have lived in the county for many years.  The senior population is the fasting growing segment in the county - how  can we afford higher taxes to pay for ALL the renovations and new schools. I have lived the  county since 1965 and have paid property taxes since then.  The seniors who have paid in over the long haul and are on fixed incomes are really getting the shaft.
 
Personally I like Cindy V's plan for tracks which would also help ADHD -LD kids.
Nanette
 




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#24716 From: "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...>
Date: Fri Oct 3, 2008 5:06 am
Subject: Re: Fw: BOE forum last night
aldyeraldyer
Send Email Send Email
 
nanette,
 
could you expand on exactly what questions you have regarding the differences between
ellen and myself regarding the mt hebron rennovate/rebuild issue?  ellen & i certainly
differ on the wisdom of spending around $60 million to rennovate an old (25 yrs?)
middle school structure vs. building a new high school structure for about $90 million.
 
allen
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Allen Dyer
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 12:53 AM
Subject: [howardpubliced] Fw: BOE forum last night

 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 8:26 AM
Subject: BOE forum last night

Allen and Ellen,
 
I would like clarification on the Mt. Hebron "greening or lack of it" that was discussed last night since you both differed.  Please let me know your sources so I can check it out. 
 
Please remember us "old folks" - School building is a hot topic among those who have lived in the county for many years.  The senior population is the fasting growing segment in the county - how  can we afford higher taxes to pay for ALL the renovations and new schools. I have lived the  county since 1965 and have paid property taxes since then.  The seniors who have paid in over the long haul and are on fixed incomes are really getting the shaft.
 
Personally I like Cindy V's plan for tracks which would also help ADHD -LD kids.
Nanette
 




Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators.

#24717 From: "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...>
Date: Fri Oct 3, 2008 4:13 pm
Subject: st johns forum -- Re: Thank You! & LEED information
aldyeraldyer
Send Email Send Email
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 11:02 AM
Subject: Thank You!

On behalf of the St Johns Community Association, I wish to thank you for participating in our Debate. 
 
It is interesting to see what topics are of interest to our neighbors. 
 
Personally, I think the candidates present last night would make quite a school board!  You all seem to have the goal of taking our school system to the next level.
 
All the best and good luck to all of you!
 
Mike Gussin
President
SJCA
______________________
 
 
hi mike,
 
thank you for organizing an opportunity for me to meet with my fellow board candidates and the community.
 
also, some further sources to your inquiry about LEED ("Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design") --
 
here is a wikipedia article --
 
 
also, appended is a copy of Senate Bill 208 - the "High Performance Buildings Act" which i referenced at your candidate forum as REQUIRING LEED certification for the new addition to Northfield Elementary.
 
see Education 5-312(c) which states:
(C) EXCEPT AS PROVIDED IN SUBSECTION (D) OF THIS SECTION, A NEW
SCHOOL THAT RECEIVES STATE PUBLIC SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION FUNDS SHALL
BE CONSTRUCTED TO BE A HIGH PERFORMANCE BUILDING.
thanx again,
 
allen dyer
candidate for board of education
 
 
 





Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators.

#24718 From: "nanette_schweitzer" <NanetteMS@...>
Date: Fri Oct 3, 2008 4:42 pm
Subject: Re: Fw: BOE forum last night
nanette_schw...
Send Email Send Email
 
Presently,there are 17 schools that need renovation in the county .
How is the county going to afford all the needed renovations? 17
times 10 million?  20 million? more? Where is the money? I can tell
you this - it is not the building that makes the school.  It is the
staff in the buildings, access to resources for teaching and their
relationshps with the students.
Nanette

--- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...>
wrote:
>
> nanette,
>
> could you expand on exactly what questions you have regarding the
differences between
> ellen and myself regarding the mt hebron rennovate/rebuild issue?
ellen & i certainly
> differ on the wisdom of spending around $60 million to rennovate an
old (25 yrs?)
> middle school structure vs. building a new high school structure
for about $90 million.
>
> allen
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Allen Dyer
>   To: Howard Public Education List
>   Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 12:53 AM
>   Subject: [howardpubliced] Fw: BOE forum last night
>
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: NanetteMS@...
>   To: aldyer@... ; Ellen_Giles@...
>   Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 8:26 AM
>   Subject: BOE forum last night
>
>
>   Allen and Ellen,
>
>   I would like clarification on the Mt. Hebron "greening or lack of
it" that was discussed last night since you both differed.  Please
let me know your sources so I can check it out.
>
>   Please remember us "old folks" - School building is a hot topic
among those who have lived in the county for many years.  The senior
population is the fasting growing segment in the county - how  can we
afford higher taxes to pay for ALL the renovations and new schools. I
have lived the  county since 1965 and have paid property taxes since
then.  The seniors who have paid in over the long haul and are on
fixed incomes are really getting the shaft.
>
>   Personally I like Cindy V's plan for tracks which would also help
ADHD -LD kids.
>   Nanette
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>   Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial
challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information,
tips and calculators.
>

#24719 From: "Steve Harbin" <steven.harbin@...>
Date: Fri Oct 3, 2008 8:27 pm
Subject: Pool study released
smh0178
Send Email Send Email
 

I see from the archives that the idea of a publicly funded pool was deemed an appropriate topic for this list. Given that, everyone who is interested should take a look at the Aquatic Feasibility Study that was recently released by the consultant hired by the county. I just looked at it, and I was surprised at how expensive the pool options are. For the indoor pool options considered by the consultant, purchase of land was not included in the cost figures, which will of course add to the costs (unless a private group or citizen donates the six acres needed).


Ignoring the purchase of the land, a 50 meter pool will cost $17.3 million. Although it will generate some revenue, it will not generate enough revenue to cover the costs (only about 60% of the costs are recovered from user fees). This means that someone (taxpayers) are going to have the fund the nearly $500,000 gap between revenue and expense.


Additionally, since revenue from the pool will not even cover costs to operate the pool, tax dollars will have to pay the $1,500,000 annual bond payments which pay for the pools construction.  Since CA has expressed no interest in partnering with the county to build this pool, I would not expect anyone but taxpayers to foot the bill.


This means that taxes are going to have to be raised (or services cut somewhere else) to generate the $2,000,000 in cash that will be needed each year to have a 50 meter pool. Given that several nearby counties already have 50 meter pools that charge minimal fees, I believe that this pool idea is a non-starter especially given the state of the economy.


I know that some people were promoting a pool to be used for high school swimming, but the consultant's analysis suggests that there will only be 80 program days related to high school swim teams (I guess this is the length of the season?) and there only be will be 60 visits per program day. If I am understanding this correctly, these numbers are much smaller than I would have expected. I would hardly use these number to justify a $2,000,000 annual expense and I would be curious to see how this compares with the costs of other sports.  The consultant explicitly stated that the 50 meter pool concept is geared toward a competitive group.  The implication of this is that competitive swimmers and not the general population are those who are benefiting from a 50 meter pool, so I would not even argue that the $2,000,000 cost benefits the community at large. 

Other thoughts?


Steve H.

#24720 From: "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...>
Date: Sat Oct 4, 2008 5:56 am
Subject: Re: Pool study released
aldyeraldyer
Send Email Send Email
 
steve, THANK YOU for looking at the archives!!!
 
i like the idea of a discussion re: swimming pools and howard county public education
and the feasibility study for which you provided a URL is an excellent starting point.
 
allen
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 4:27 PM
Subject: [howardpubliced] Pool study released

I see from the archives that the idea of a publicly funded pool was deemed an appropriate topic for this list. Given that, everyone who is interested should take a look at the Aquatic Feasibility Study that was recently released by the consultant hired by the county. I just looked at it, and I was surprised at how expensive the pool options are. For the indoor pool options considered by the consultant, purchase of land was not included in the cost figures, which will of course add to the costs (unless a private group or citizen donates the six acres needed).


Ignoring the purchase of the land, a 50 meter pool will cost $17.3 million. Although it will generate some revenue, it will not generate enough revenue to cover the costs (only about 60% of the costs are recovered from user fees). This means that someone (taxpayers) are going to have the fund the nearly $500,000 gap between revenue and expense.


Additionally, since revenue from the pool will not even cover costs to operate the pool, tax dollars will have to pay the $1,500,000 annual bond payments which pay for the pools construction.  Since CA has expressed no interest in partnering with the county to build this pool, I would not expect anyone but taxpayers to foot the bill.


This means that taxes are going to have to be raised (or services cut somewhere else) to generate the $2,000,000 in cash that will be needed each year to have a 50 meter pool. Given that several nearby counties already have 50 meter pools that charge minimal fees, I believe that this pool idea is a non-starter especially given the state of the economy.


I know that some people were promoting a pool to be used for high school swimming, but the consultant's analysis suggests that there will only be 80 program days related to high school swim teams (I guess this is the length of the season?) and there only be will be 60 visits per program day. If I am understanding this correctly, these numbers are much smaller than I would have expected. I would hardly use these number to justify a $2,000,000 annual expense and I would be curious to see how this compares with the costs of other sports.  The consultant explicitly stated that the 50 meter pool concept is geared toward a competitive group.  The implication of this is that competitive swimmers and not the general population are those who are benefiting from a 50 meter pool, so I would not even argue that the $2,000,000 cost benefits the community at large. 

Other thoughts?


Steve H.

#24721 From: "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...>
Date: Sat Oct 4, 2008 2:04 pm
Subject: Fw: Re: st johns forum -- Re: Thank You! & LEED information
aldyeraldyer
Send Email Send Email
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 8:10 AM
Subject: FW: Re: st johns forum -- Re: Thank You! & LEED information

 
 
Mike:

I echo Allen's sentiments. It was wonderful to get a chance to hear from the community around St. Johns Lane.

I'm sure that the Wikipedia article will prove helpful in understanding the LEED requirements.  For further infor, I have attached the LEED checklist for new construction (which will be the standards appllied to the Northfield Elementary addition/renovation), and the LEED checklist for O&M (existing buildings )which will serve as a guide for efficienciency and sustainability review at all schools.  

Allen correctly notes that the High Performance Buildings Act took effect this year.  However, the Northfield project does not fall under the new state requirements cited in SB 280 on two (2) counts:  the RFP for A/E services was released before July 1, 2009; and Northfield is not "new" school, but an existing facility.


Ellen Flynn Giles
Vice Chairman and Candidate
Howard County Board of Education

"Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...> on Friday, October 03, 2008 at 12:13 PM -0500 wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From:
Beepbeep71@... 
To:
janet@... ; Betsygrater@... ; aldyer@... ; politicodiane@... ; Ellen_Giles@... 
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 11:02 AM
Subject: Thank You!


 
On behalf of the St Johns Community Association, I wish to thank you for participating in our Debate. 
 
It is interesting to see what topics are of interest to our neighbors. 
 
Personally, I think the candidates present last night would make quite a school board!  You all seem to have the goal of taking our school system to the next level.
 
All the best and good luck to all of you!
 
Mike Gussin
President
SJCA
______________________
 
 

hi mike,
 
thank you for organizing an opportunity for me to meet with my fellow board candidates and the community.
 
also, some further sources to your inquiry about LEED ("Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design") --
 
here is a wikipedia article --
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_in_Energy_and_Environmental_Design
 
also, appended is a copy of Senate Bill 208 - the "High Performance Buildings Act" which i referenced at your candidate forum as REQUIRING LEED certification for the new addition to Northfield Elementary.
 
see Education 5-312(c) which states:


(C) EXCEPT AS PROVIDED IN SUBSECTION (D) OF THIS SECTION, A NEW
SCHOOL THAT RECEIVES STATE PUBLIC SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION FUNDS SHALL
BE CONSTRUCTED TO BE A HIGH PERFORMANCE BUILDING.


thanx again,
 
allen dyer
candidate for board of education
 
 
 







 

Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators.


#24722 From: "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...>
Date: Sat Oct 4, 2008 2:05 pm
Subject: Fw: BOE forum last night
aldyeraldyer
Send Email Send Email
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 8:18 AM
Subject: Fwd: BOE forum last night

Nannette:

1.  In addition to some general guidelines for construction and operational efficiency that are applied to all projects, I have pulled some information on some of the "green" initiatives for the MHHS renovation from the Design Document approved by the Board at the 7/10/2008 Meeting .  The complete document is posted on BoardDocs, and attached here.

HCPSS School Construction – General


In striving for sustainable buildings, careful consideration is given to the use of materials that are durable, like concrete masonry, and reusable or recycled materials.  An effort is made to recycle as much of the excess of these materials as possible during and after construction to reduce waste.  Construction materials are consciously purchased from local regions when possible to reduce the amount of shipping required and therefore mini mize associated adverse environmental impacts.

Designing a school project that will continue to be used for 50 or more years requires a design to focus on the energy efficiency and physical environment of the facility.  To achieve these standards, various aspects of the project are designed with this goal in mind.  Examples of these would include the use of low energy transmission glazing on exterior windows, white or light colored reflective material on the roof, low off-gassing materials, site water management, use of natural light where possible, use of new energy efficient HVAC equipment, and the performance of life cycle analyses of the building and equipment.

Mount Hebron High School - Selected  "green" initiatives

The MHHS addition and renovation, although not aspiring to be a LEED (Leaders in Environment and Energy Design) certified project, is being designed in accordance in green building concepts.  Consistent with green des ign, significant consideration is being given to constructability, material selection and overall design of the building to provide a facility that is sustainable, energy efficient and environmentally healthy.

CO2 Sensors:
Carbon dioxide sensors will be utilized for high occupant density spaces to limit the quantity of outside air used when these spaces are not fully occupied.  This would limit the amount of energy used to heat and cool these large spaces like the gymnasium, auditorium, cafeteria, and auxiliary gymnasium.

Energy Monitoring Station:
An energy monitoring station is being “considered” or “planned” for the project to display data related to the energy and resources consumed b the facility, as well as the energy and resources saved by public display in the school.  Such a device can be used as a teaching tool to help educate the students.

High Efficiency HVAC Equipment:
In the extensive systemic portion of thi s project, a high efficiency water-cooled chiller plant will provide cooling for most of the facility, in lieu of the less efficient air-cooled machines currently in place.  Variable speed pumping will be used for both the chilled water and heating water systems, limiting the energy used to motivate heating and cooling potential through the building.  “Variable air volume” air handling units using variable frequency drives will curtail the use of of electricity to move air through the facility during off-design conditions.

 Lighting:
General interior illumination will be provided by energy efficient fluorescent fixtures with high frequency electronic ballasts, to match 4100K fluorescent lamps and acrylic lenses.
Exterior security lighting will consist of 30 feet high poles with high pressure sodium lamps for the new parking area, and building-mounted wall packs with high pressure sodium lamps.  

Lighting Controls:
Sustainabl e lighting control design in a typical classroom includes a daylight harvesting system.  This system will control the amount of light provided by the lighting fixtures next to the window by using a photocell and fluorescent dimming ballasts.  This will be in lieu of motion sensors and multiple switches.ow emitting materials:

Low Flow and Dual Flush Plumbing Fixtures:
The use of low flow urinals which use half of the water of a traditional urinal will be incorporated into the design where feasible.  The use of dual flush toilets, which allow users to save a half gallon per flush to eliminate liquid and paper waste, and the use of low flow faucet aerators will also be provided in the new design.  All of these fixtures will be used both in the new addition as well as in all the renovated areas of the building.

Low emitting materials:
Where possible, materials that are found to reduce the use of high Volatile Organic Compound (VOC) will be used to enhance indoor air quality and provide an environment free or odorous, irritating, and/or harmful indoor air contaminants.

Photovoltaic Panels:
Photovoltaic panels to be used as demonstration/teaching tool will include photovoltaic panels mounted on the new entrance canopy and connected to monitoring stations.  The monitoring stations will be located in the main lobby and the science department.

White Roof:
Highly reflective roofing will be utilized on the new addition portion of the project to reduce heat that the building gains from the sun and reduce the energy used to cool the facility.  The roofing materials is a standard building material that is used on all projects and can be modified slightly, in this case to a white or light color, to increase the efficiency and effective sustainability of the building construction.

This topic has been a part of the regular meetings with the MHHS team, and and the p roject proceeds they're will be more information forthcoming.

2.  I served on the County Executive's Task Force on Alternative Funding for Education in 2003/2004 and supported their recommendation that an increase in the transfer tax for real estate transactions be dedicated to school construction. The transfer tax option applied to all real estate transactions,  recognizing that while school enrollment was impacted by new construction in developing areas (1,500 units annually), resales (6,000 units annually) and turnover in neighborhoods across the county had a greater impact, and business and commercial development were designed to bring in more people and benefit from the standard of living provided by a top quality school district.  While the County Executive recommended this local action to the delegation, they opted to approve an excise tax on new residential construction only.  Both of these options were activated only when property was bought or s old, minimizing the annual impact on the pocketbook of the taxpayer.  However, the yield from the excise tax is less than half what was anticipated from the transfer tax.  In addition, while this revenue funded the bond sales that financed important projects, the continuing revenues are already obligated to paying down that debt. The need for an additional dedicated revenue source for our schools remains, and options under consideration now by the County Council and County Executive must demonstrate a clear nexus to the impact on schools enrollment and an appreciation for the impact on our citizens.

3.       I am unfamiliar with the Cindy V track plan.

Don't hesitate to contact me if I can be of assistance.

Ellen Flynn Giles
Vice Chairman & Candidate
Howard County Board of Education

----- Original Message -----

From:           NanetteMS@...        Thu, Oct 02, 2008 8:26:54 AM

Subject:        BOE forum last night
To:     aldyer@...
Attachments:            Attach0.html            2K


Allen and Ellen,
 
I would like clarificatio n on the Mt. Hebron "greening or lack of it" that was discussed last night since you both differed.  Please let me know your sources so I can check it out. 
 
Please remember us "old folks" - School building is a hot topic among those who have lived in the county for many years.  The senior population is the fasting growing segment in the county - how  can we afford higher taxes to pay for ALL the renovations and new schools. I have lived the  county since 1965 and have paid property taxes since then.  The seniors who have paid in over the long haul and are on fixed incomes are really getting the shaft.
 
Personally I like Cindy V's plan for tracks which would also help ADHD -LD kids.
Nanette
 






Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators.

#24723 From: "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...>
Date: Sat Oct 4, 2008 2:36 pm
Subject: aging infrastructure & dedicated funding Re: BOE forum last night
aldyeraldyer
Send Email Send Email
 
nanette,
 
based on the decision making i saw going into the mt hebron decision, i am persuaded that a lack of dedicated funding for capital projects is forcing decisions that, if sufficient funds were available, would not be made.  capital projects call for L-O-N-G term considerations because they are truly INVESTMENTS in our county's future.  i believe better decision making on long term investments results in providing future county leaders with more options when they are faced with difficult decisions and higher real estate values for all howard county property owners.  good schools = good property values.
 
given that preface, i agree with ellen vis-a-vis her support for county executive robey's 2003/2004 recommendation of a transfer tax for real estate transactions that would be dedicated to school construction (see excerpt from ellen's message below).  a transfer tax does not eat into the annual living expenses of county residents that are living on a fixed income but, at the same time, the certainty of a transfer tax IN THE FUTURE allows county planners to justify bonds that can be INVESTED into our schools infrastruture.  i like that kind of nexus.
 
egad.  can't believe i agree with ellen on something.  ;-)
 
allen 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 8:18 AM
Subject: Fwd: BOE forum last night

....
2.  I served on the County Executive's Task Force on Alternative Funding for Education in 2003/2004 and supported their recommendation that an increase in the transfer tax for real estate transactions be dedicated to school construction. The transfer tax option applied to all real estate transactions,  recognizing that while school enrollment was impacted by new construction in developing areas (1,500 units annually), resales (6,000 units annually) and turnover in neighborhoods across the county had a greater impact, and business and commercial development were designed to bring in more people and benefit from the standard of living provided by a top quality school district.  While the County Executive recommended this local action to the delegation, they opted to approve an excise tax on new residential construction only.  Both of these options were activated only when property was bought or s old, minimizing the annual impact on the pocketbook of the taxpayer.  However, the yield from the excise tax is less than half what was anticipated from the transfer tax.  In addition, while this revenue funded the bond sales that financed important projects, the continuing revenues are already obligated to paying down that debt. The need for an additional dedicated revenue source for our schools remains, and options under consideration now by the County Council and County Executive must demonstrate a clear nexus to the impact on schools enrollment and an appreciation for the impact on our citizens.

...
Ellen Flynn Giles
Vice Chairman & Candidate
Howard County Board of Education

 

#24724 From: "nanette_schweitzer" <NanetteMS@...>
Date: Sat Oct 4, 2008 4:41 pm
Subject: aging infrastructure & dedicated funding Re: BOE forum last night
nanette_schw...
Send Email Send Email
 
Thank you, Ellen and Allen for taking the time to respond and answer
my question.


--- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...>
wrote:
>
> nanette,
>
> based on the decision making i saw going into the mt hebron
decision, i am persuaded that a lack of dedicated funding for capital
projects is forcing decisions that, if sufficient funds were
available, would not be made.  capital projects call for L-O-N-G term
considerations because they are truly INVESTMENTS in our county's
future.  i believe better decision making on long term investments
results in providing future county leaders with more options when
they are faced with difficult decisions and higher real estate values
for all howard county property owners.  good schools = good property
values.
>
> given that preface, i agree with ellen vis-a-vis her support for
county executive robey's 2003/2004 recommendation of a transfer tax
for real estate transactions that would be dedicated to school
construction (see excerpt from ellen's message below).  a transfer
tax does not eat into the annual living expenses of county residents
that are living on a fixed income but, at the same time, the
certainty of a transfer tax IN THE FUTURE allows county planners to
justify bonds that can be INVESTED into our schools infrastruture.  i
like that kind of nexus.
>
> egad.  can't believe i agree with ellen on something.  ;-)
>
> allen
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: efg4boe@...
>   To: nanetteMS@...
>   Cc: aldyer@...
>   Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 8:18 AM
>   Subject: Fwd: BOE forum last night
>
>
>     ....
>     2.  I served on the County Executive's Task Force on
Alternative Funding for Education in 2003/2004 and supported their
recommendation that an increase in the transfer tax for real estate
transactions be dedicated to school construction. The transfer tax
option applied to all real estate transactions,  recognizing that
while school enrollment was impacted by new construction in
developing areas (1,500 units annually), resales (6,000 units
annually) and turnover in neighborhoods across the county had a
greater impact, and business and commercial development were designed
to bring in more people and benefit from the standard of living
provided by a top quality school district.  While the County
Executive recommended this local action to the delegation, they opted
to approve an excise tax on new residential construction only.  Both
of these options were activated only when property was bought or s
old, minimizing the annual impact on the pocketbook of the taxpayer.
However, the yield from the excise tax is less than half what was
anticipated from the transfer tax.  In addition, while this revenue
funded the bond sales that financed important projects, the
continuing revenues are already obligated to paying down that debt.
The need for an additional dedicated revenue source for our schools
remains, and options under consideration now by the County Council
and County Executive must demonstrate a clear nexus to the impact on
schools enrollment and an appreciation for the impact on our citizens.
>
>     ...
>     Ellen Flynn Giles
>     Vice Chairman & Candidate
>     Howard County Board of Education
>

#24725 From: rgoodri973@...
Date: Sat Oct 4, 2008 12:57 pm
Subject: Re: Pool study released
deg62
Send Email Send Email
 
Steve,
 
Your revenue analysis of the viability of a 50-meter pool is based on an ***OPINION*** of Revenue and an ***OPINION*** of Probable Expenses.  I believe the feasibility study is way low on the revenue estimates for a 50-meter pool (based on rentals for practice lanes and facility rentals for meets) and am doing my own research to verify or discount what the consultant has offered.  
 
Diane G.

 
In a message dated 10/3/2008 4:27:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, steven.harbin@... writes:

Ignoring the purchase of the land, a 50 meter pool will cost $17.3 million. Although it will generate some revenue, it will not generate enough revenue to cover the costs (only about 60% of the costs are recovered from user fees). This means that someone (taxpayers) are going to have the fund the nearly $500,000 gap between revenue and expense.


Additionally, since revenue from the pool will not even cover costs to operate the pool, tax dollars will have to pay the $1,500,000 annual bond payments which pay for the pools construction.  Since CA has expressed no interest in partnering with the county to build this pool, I would not expect anyone but taxpayers to foot the bill.


This means that taxes are going to have to be raised (or services cut somewhere else) to generate the $2,000,000 in cash that will be needed each year to have a 50 meter pool. Given that several nearby counties already have 50 meter pools that charge minimal fees, I believe that this pool idea is a non-starter especially given the state of the economy.


I know that some people were promoting a pool to be used for high school swimming, but the consultant's analysis suggests that there will only be 80 program days related to high school swim teams (I guess this is the length of the season?) and there only be will be 60 visits per program day. If I am understanding this correctly, these numbers are much smaller than I would have expected.

 
New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News more. Try it out!

#24726 From: rgoodri973@...
Date: Sat Oct 4, 2008 1:00 pm
Subject: Re: Pool study released
deg62
Send Email Send Email
 
In a message dated 10/4/2008 12:57:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rgoodri973@... writes:
Steve,
 
Your revenue analysis

Correction, that should say:  Your OPERATIONS analysis
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#24727 From: rgoodri973@...
Date: Sat Oct 4, 2008 1:08 pm
Subject: Re: Pool study released
deg62
Send Email Send Email
 
In a message dated 10/3/2008 4:27:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, steven.harbin@... writes:
Since CA has expressed no interest in partnering with the county

Steve,
Where did you get this idea -- "Since CA has expressed no interest in partnering with the county"?
 
Did you see this piece from the HC Times, from 8-28-08?  (And, BTW, are you "User Milton" ? -- see ser comments, below)
 
EXCERPT FROM HC Times/Miller column 8-28-08

Rob Goldman, who heads CA's Sport and Fitness division, doesn't like that idea. Four years ago, the association sank $3 million into a facelift and plans to spend another million this year on heating-ventilation-air-conditioning and dehumidification work. "The Swim Center is a facility that is in very good shape."

Goldman says CA would be open to the possibility of lending some expertise or even donating some land to help the county [emphasis added] stick another toe into the water (the county's lone public pool is at the Roger Carter Recreation Center, in Ellicott City), but it's the county government's turn to pony up.

"CA has, in a large sense, relieved the county of the responsibility of providing aquatics," Goldman says.


user comments (1)


user milton says...

The consultant hired by Howard County to investigate this matter came to the conclusion that an Olympic-sized indoor pool would not even generate sufficient revenues to pay for the cost of keeping it open, let alone the cost to build it in the first place. Therefore, there is NO WAY that the pool can pay for itself. The writer of this editorial, along with the few vocal supporters of this pool, is spreading misinformation to even suggest that the pool could possibly pay for itself.

I have to wonder if Mr. Miller reads his own newspaper:

http://www.explorehoward.com/news/10130/swim/

Furthermore, anyone who thinks that it is the job of the taxpayer to boost revenue for hotels and restaurants does not have the interest of the public in mind. If a pool is good for hotels and restaurants, let hotels and restaurants pay for the pool.

An Olympic-sized indoor pool is too expensive and serves too narrow of a niche to be built with public money.

New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News more. Try it out!

#24728 From: "Steve Harbin" <steven.harbin@...>
Date: Sat Oct 4, 2008 6:50 pm
Subject: Re: Pool study released
smh0178
Send Email Send Email
 
Diane, it was unbelievably rude of you post my original message on
another listserv that I am not a member of without my permission.  How
am I supposed to defend my statements if you are posting them all over
the place?  I am going to insist that you choose a little civility and
DO NOT ever do that again.  And no, I am not "User Milton".

Mr. Carter stated that it is the County government's turn to "pony
up", which is not something that he would have said if CA was
interested in any meaningful partnership.

Steve H.

--- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, rgoodri973@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 10/3/2008 4:27:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> steven.harbin@... writes:
>
> Since  CA has expressed no interest in partnering with the  county
>
>
>
> ____________________________________
>
> Steve,
> Where did you get this idea -- "Since CA has expressed no interest in
> partnering with the county"?
>
> Did you see this piece from the HC Times, from 8-28-08?  (And, BTW,
  are you
> "User Milton" ? -- see ser comments, below)
>
_http://explorehoward.com/opinion/11088/doug-miller-those-floating-indoor-pool
> -proposal-hold-breath/_
>
(http://explorehoward.com/opinion/11088/doug-miller-those-floating-indoor-pool-p\
roposal-hold-breath/)

>
> EXCERPT FROM HC Times/Miller column 8-28-08
>
> Rob Goldman, who heads CA's Sport and Fitness  division, doesn't
like that
> idea. Four years ago, the association sank $3  million into a
facelift and plans
> to spend another million this year on
heating-ventilation-air-conditioning
> and dehumidification work. "The Swim Center  is a facility that is
in very good
> shape."
> Goldman says CA would be open to the  possibility of lending some
expertise
> or even donating some land to help the  county [emphasis added]
stick another
> toe into the water (the  county's lone public pool is at the Roger
Carter
> Recreation Center, in Ellicott  City), but it's the county
government's turn to
> pony up.
> "CA has, in a large sense, relieved the county  of the
responsibility of
> providing aquatics," Goldman says.
>
> ____________________________________
>
> user comments  (1)
>
>
> ____________________________________
>
> user milton  says...
> The consultant hired by Howard County to  investigate this matter
came to the
> conclusion that an Olympic-sized indoor pool  would not even generate
> sufficient revenues to pay for the cost of keeping it  open, let
alone the cost to
> build it in the first place. Therefore, there is NO  WAY that the
pool can pay
> for itself. The writer of this editorial, along with  the few vocal
supporters
> of this pool, is spreading misinformation to even  suggest that the
pool could
> possibly pay for itself.
>
> I have to wonder if  Mr. Miller reads his own  newspaper:
>
> http://www.explorehoward.com/news/10130/swim/
>
> Furthermore,  anyone who thinks that it is the job of the taxpayer
to boost
> revenue for hotels  and restaurants does not have the interest of
the public in
> mind. If a pool is  good for hotels and restaurants, let hotels and
> restaurants pay for the  pool.
>
> An Olympic-sized indoor pool is too expensive and serves too narrow
  of a
> niche to be built with public  money.
>
>
>
>
>
> New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.  Dining,
> Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!
> (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
>

#24729 From: rgoodri973@...
Date: Sat Oct 4, 2008 3:09 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pool study released
deg62
Send Email Send Email
 
In a message dated 10/4/2008 2:50:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, steven.harbin@... writes:
Diane, it was unbelievably rude of you post my original message on
another listserv that I am not a member of without my permission. How
am I supposed to defend my statements if you are posting them all over
the place? I am going to insist that you choose a little civility and
DO NOT ever do that again. And no, I am not "User Milton".

Mr. Carter stated that it is the County government's turn to "pony
up", which is not something that he would have said if CA was
interested in any meaningful partnership.

Steve H.

Steve,
1.    Why is cross-posting "unbelievable rude" ... when you've posted to howardpubliced, which is in the PUBLIC domain?  It's a publicly accessible listserv.  I was merely forwarding pertinent info to an interested group. 
2.   If you are not a member of hoco4a50meterpool, then why not join it so you can defend your statements? 
3.   Who is Mr. Carter? 
4.   It was the columnist, Doug Miller, who used the term "pony up" to describe CA's position of being open to the possibility of partnering with the county on a 50-meter pool.  CA's Rob Goldman is never quoted as saying it is the county government's turn to pony up.
-Diane
New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News more. Try it out!

#24730 From: "DIANE BUTLER" <politicodiane@...>
Date: Sat Oct 4, 2008 7:10 pm
Subject: Steve, Wrong Diane
dainebutler
Send Email Send Email
 
Steve,
   PLease STOP confusing me with the other Diane who keeps putting things on
the Howard Ed site. It is not me. I wish she would use her last name so that
I do not lose votes in the campaign over things I have neither said nor
done.
Thank you, Diane Butler


>From: "Steve Harbin" <steven.harbin@...>
>Reply-To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
>To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Pool study released
>Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2008 18:50:34 -0000
>
>Diane, it was unbelievably rude of you post my original message on
>another listserv that I am not a member of without my permission.  How
>am I supposed to defend my statements if you are posting them all over
>the place?  I am going to insist that you choose a little civility and
>DO NOT ever do that again.  And no, I am not "User Milton".
>
>Mr. Carter stated that it is the County government's turn to "pony
>up", which is not something that he would have said if CA was
>interested in any meaningful partnership.
>
>Steve H.
>
>--- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, rgoodri973@... wrote:
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 10/3/2008 4:27:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > steven.harbin@... writes:
> >
> > Since  CA has expressed no interest in partnering with the  county
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________
> >
> > Steve,
> > Where did you get this idea -- "Since CA has expressed no interest in
> > partnering with the county"?
> >
> > Did you see this piece from the HC Times, from 8-28-08?  (And, BTW,
>  are you
> > "User Milton" ? -- see ser comments, below)
> >
>_http://explorehoward.com/opinion/11088/doug-miller-those-floating-indoor-pool
> > -proposal-hold-breath/_
> >
>(http://explorehoward.com/opinion/11088/doug-miller-those-floating-indoor-pool-\
proposal-hold-breath/)
>
> >
> > EXCERPT FROM HC Times/Miller column 8-28-08
> >
> > Rob Goldman, who heads CA's Sport and Fitness  division, doesn't
>like that
> > idea. Four years ago, the association sank $3  million into a
>facelift and plans
> > to spend another million this year on
>heating-ventilation-air-conditioning
> > and dehumidification work. "The Swim Center  is a facility that is
>in very good
> > shape."
> > Goldman says CA would be open to the  possibility of lending some
>expertise
> > or even donating some land to help the  county [emphasis added]
>stick another
> > toe into the water (the  county's lone public pool is at the Roger
>Carter
> > Recreation Center, in Ellicott  City), but it's the county
>government's turn to
> > pony up.
> > "CA has, in a large sense, relieved the county  of the
>responsibility of
> > providing aquatics," Goldman says.
> >
> > ____________________________________
> >
> > user comments  (1)
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________
> >
> > user milton  says...
> > The consultant hired by Howard County to  investigate this matter
>came to the
> > conclusion that an Olympic-sized indoor pool  would not even generate
> > sufficient revenues to pay for the cost of keeping it  open, let
>alone the cost to
> > build it in the first place. Therefore, there is NO  WAY that the
>pool can pay
> > for itself. The writer of this editorial, along with  the few vocal
>supporters
> > of this pool, is spreading misinformation to even  suggest that the
>pool could
> > possibly pay for itself.
> >
> > I have to wonder if  Mr. Miller reads his own  newspaper:
> >
> > http://www.explorehoward.com/news/10130/swim/
> >
> > Furthermore,  anyone who thinks that it is the job of the taxpayer
>to boost
> > revenue for hotels  and restaurants does not have the interest of
>the public in
> > mind. If a pool is  good for hotels and restaurants, let hotels and
> > restaurants pay for the  pool.
> >
> > An Olympic-sized indoor pool is too expensive and serves too narrow
>  of a
> > niche to be built with public  money.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.  Dining,
> > Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!
> > (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
> >
>
>

#24731 From: rgoodri973@...
Date: Sat Oct 4, 2008 3:20 pm
Subject: Re: Steve, Wrong Diane
deg62
Send Email Send Email
 
In a message dated 10/4/2008 3:12:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, politicodiane@... writes:
Steve,
PLease STOP confusing me with the other Diane who keeps putting things on
the Howard Ed site. It is not me. I wish she would use her last name so that
I do not lose votes in the campaign over things I have neither said nor
done.
Thank you, Diane Butler
I apologize for the confusion, Diane Butler and everyone!
I've been trying to use "Diane G." on my posts, so I apologize if I forgot to add the "G."
Just to clarify -- all the "Pool Study Released" emails that were signed "Diane" were from "Diane G."  (not from Diane Butler).  Same goes for the school bus incident emails last week, in case I didn't use my last initial.
 
-Diane G.
New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination. Dining, Movies, Events, News more. Try it out!

#24732 From: "Steve Harbin" <steven.harbin@...>
Date: Sat Oct 4, 2008 8:05 pm
Subject: Re: Steve, Wrong Diane
smh0178
Send Email Send Email
 
Why don't you both just sign your e-mails with your full names?  I
must really be getting you two mixed up because the first e-mail I
ever saw from Diane Butler was the one telling me not to confuse her
with someone else.

Steve H.

--- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, rgoodri973@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 10/4/2008 3:12:09 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> politicodiane@... writes:
>
> Steve,
> PLease STOP confusing me with the other Diane who keeps  putting
things on
> the Howard Ed site. It is not me. I wish she would use  her last
name so that
> I do not lose votes in the campaign over things I  have neither said
nor
> done.
> Thank you, Diane  Butler
>
>
> I apologize for the confusion, Diane Butler and everyone!
> I've been trying to use "Diane G." on my posts, so I apologize if I
forgot
> to add the "G."
> Just to clarify -- all the "Pool Study Released" emails that were
signed
> "Diane" were from "Diane G."  (not from Diane Butler).  Same goes
for the school
> bus incident emails last week, in case I didn't use my last  initial.
>
> -Diane G.
>
>
>
> New MapQuest Local shows what's happening at your destination.  Dining,
> Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out!
> (http://local.mapquest.com/?ncid=emlcntnew00000001)
>

#24733 From: "Steve Harbin" <steven.harbin@...>
Date: Sat Oct 4, 2008 8:26 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Pool study released
smh0178
Send Email Send Email
 
Diane G., I asked you not to cross post any of my e-mails to another listserv without my permission, and I expect you to respect my wishes.  I don't think that it is asking too much that I should be able to defend my statements, and I can't do that with you posting things everywhere.  THIS list is in the public domain where anyone can read it here, and anyone who wants to respond can join and do so.  I don't support a 50 meter pool and I am not going to join a list that promotes it.

I meant Mr. Goldman when I said Mr. Carter.  Although Doug Miller did not directly quote Mr. Goldman, the "pony up" sentiment that Mr. Miller was expressing was the that of Mr. Goldman.   If the CA wants to contribute financially to the $2 million in annual cash that a 50 meter pool will require, please tell us how much they are willing to pay.

Steve H.

On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 3:09 PM, <rgoodri973@...> wrote:

In a message dated 10/4/2008 2:50:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, steven.harbin@... writes:
Diane, it was unbelievably rude of you post my original message on
another listserv that I am not a member of without my permission. How
am I supposed to defend my statements if you are posting them all over
the place? I am going to insist that you choose a little civility and
DO NOT ever do that again. And no, I am not "User Milton".

Mr. Carter stated that it is the County government's turn to "pony
up", which is not something that he would have said if CA was
interested in any meaningful partnership.

Steve H.

Steve,
1.    Why is cross-posting "unbelievable rude" ... when you've posted to howardpubliced, which is in the PUBLIC domain?  It's a publicly accessible listserv.  I was merely forwarding pertinent info to an interested group. 
2.   If you are not a member of hoco4a50meterpool, then why not join it so you can defend your statements? 
3.   Who is Mr. Carter? 
4.   It was the columnist, Doug Miller, who used the term "pony up" to describe CA's position of being open to the possibility of partnering with the county on a 50-meter pool.  CA's Rob Goldman is never quoted as saying it is the county government's turn to pony up.
-Diane

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#24734 From: rgoodri973@...
Date: Sat Oct 4, 2008 5:44 pm
Subject: MODERATOR? cross-posting, name-calling and other nonsense
deg62
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Steve H.,
 
1.  My "criminal act" of cross-posting your [public domain] email to another listserv occurred PRIOR TO your request/demand that I not cross-post your emails to other listservs!  After you made your request/demand, I have not cross-posted your subsequent emails -- so I am baffled by what you are complaining about NOW?!?!
 
2. Please inform me of the "everywhere" places that I am cross-posting your emails to!  I cross-posted exactly ONE of your emails to exactly ONE listserv other than howardpubliced.  The innuendo that I am cross-posting wildly to any list  and every list is inaccurate.
 
3. If you are not a member of hoco4a50meterpool, then how were you even aware that I cross-posted your email?  How could that even come to your attention?  Are you sure you aren't already a member of that listserv group that you oppose?
 
4.  Since you say you subscribe to the "Choose Civility" doctrine, could you please follow your own doctrine and act civilly -- and kindly refrain from saying people are "incredibly rude" -- particularly when they didn't do anything out of the ordinary that dozens of other people on this list (and other lists) have done for years -- simply crosspost a message to another group.  Gee, I didn't even add any editorial comments to your post OTHER THAN this innocuous phrase at the beginning of your post: "a cross-post from another listserv/discussion group (howardpubliced)."
 
5.  Why do you take this pool thing so personally?  Why do you go out of your way to instigate opposition (your initial post) for something that isn't even on the table yet as an option (it's still at the feasibility study phase -- hasn't even been a hearing on that yet)?  Don't we live in a democracy?  Can't people advocate for issues they want?  Why is this so offensive to you?  If and when it ever gets on the table as a capital project, that would be the time to attack it.  At such a preliminary stage, why are you so interested in studying howardpubliced archives (when you weren't yet a member the hpe list - otherwise you would've surely weighed in then) and in hearing "Other thoughts"?
 
6.  I am not going to participate in any further discussions directly with you. 
 
Diane G.

In a message dated 10/4/2008 4:27:17 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, steven.harbin@... writes:
Diane G., I asked you not to cross post any of my e-mails to another listserv without my permission, and I expect you to respect my wishes.  I don't think that it is asking too much that I should be able to defend my statements, and I can't do that with you posting things everywhere.  THIS list is in the public domain where anyone can read it here, and anyone who wants to respond can join and do so.  I don't support a 50 meter pool and I am not going to join a list that promotes it.

I meant Mr. Goldman when I said Mr. Carter.  Although Doug Miller did not directly quote Mr. Goldman, the "pony up" sentiment that Mr. Miller was expressing was the that of Mr. Goldman.   If the CA wants to contribute financially to the $2 million in annual cash that a 50 meter pool will require, please tell us how much they are willing to pay.

Steve H.

On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 3:09 PM, <rgoodri973@aol.com> wrote:

In a message dated 10/4/2008 2:50:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, steven.harbin@gmail.com writes:
Diane, it was unbelievably rude of you post my original message on
another listserv that I am not a member of without my permission. How
am I supposed to defend my statements if you are posting them all over
the place? I am going to insist that you choose a little civility and
DO NOT ever do that again. And no, I am not "User Milton".

Mr. Carter stated that it is the County government's turn to "pony
up", which is not something that he would have said if CA was
interested in any meaningful partnership.

Steve H.

Steve,
1.    Why is cross-posting "unbelievable rude" ... when you've posted to howardpubliced, which is in the PUBLIC domain?  It's a publicly accessible listserv.  I was merely forwarding pertinent info to an interested group. 
2.   If you are not a member of hoco4a50meterpool, then why not join it so you can defend your statements? 
3.   Who is Mr. Carter? 
4.   It was the columnist, Doug Miller, who used the term "pony up" to describe CA's position of being open to the possibility of partnering with the county on a 50-meter pool.  CA's Rob Goldman is never quoted as saying it is the county government's turn to pony up.
-Diane
 
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#24735 From: "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...>
Date: Sun Oct 5, 2008 10:13 pm
Subject: access to gov't information -- Fw: [FOI-L] News: European parliamentarians call for redrafting Access Convention
aldyeraldyer
Send Email Send Email
 
i thought the appended european initiative regarding access to european official
documents would be worthy of republishing to the HCCA and howardpubliced lists
because it addresses structural shortcomings (many of which also exist in maryland
and the U.S.) as well as several succinct reasons for public access to documents.  
 
in maryland, public access to state documents is governed by the maryland public
information act (frequently abbreviated to "PIA").  the maryland attorney general
posts information about open government, including a PIA manual, on the web
 
allen dyer
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2008 4:49 PM
Subject: [FOI-L] News: European parliamentarians call for redrafting Access Convention

 

logotitle_goldaccess info_no_link_below

                   

 

 

Press Release:

 

European Parliamentarians call on Council of Europe

 

To Redraft Substandard Convention on Access to Official Documents

 

Strasbourg, 6 October 2008:  The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE) on Friday (3 October 2008) adopted unanimously a resolution expressing concern that the world’s first treaty intended to guarantee public access to information had significant flaws. In a rare step, PACE called for the Convention on Access to Official Documents to be redrafted.

 

The PACE ‘Opinion’ identifies a series of problems with the draft treaty including: 

·         Lack of a general statement on the right to information establishing that “all official documents are in principle public and can be withheld subject only to the protection of other rights and legitimate interests”;

·         The absence of mandatory time limits for answering requests – the European Court of Human Rights has established that information “is a perishable commodity and to delay its publication even for a short period may well deprive it of all value and interest”;

·         Narrow definition of “public authorities” that excludes the main functions of legislative and judicial bodies as well as private bodies that perform public functions or operate with public funds, “allowing some public bodies to continue operating in the shadows”;

·         Requestors should have a right to appeal to a review body that has the power to order disclosure of the requested official document;

·         States given freedom to enter reservations on any provision of the Convention, thereby undermining the “delicate balance of many individual components” needed to make the right of access to information function in practice.

 

Access Info Europe, ARTICLE 19 and the Open Society Justice Initiative, which have raised these concerns for more than two years and garnered endorsements of more than 250 civil society organizations  welcomed Friday’s vote  and called on the Council of Europe’s Committee of Ministers not to adopt the draft Convention as it stands.

 

Speaking in the Parliamentary Assembly debate on Friday, Mr Klaas de Vries, a former cabinet minister in the Netherlands, who prepared the Opinion on behalf of the PACE Legal Affairs and Human Right Committee, called on the Committee of Ministers to “go this extra mile now” adding that “we will be criticized for years to come if we don’t act now.”

 

Mr de Vries noted the current crisis of trust in government in Europe, pointing out that this was a result of the “structural reluctance to inform” the public and that “governments are not trusted because they do not trust their own citizens [with information]”.

 

During the debate other parliamentarians stressed that the world’s first binding convention on the democratic right of access to information should not be drafted by government experts alone but in full consultation with the elected representatives of the Council of Europe’s 47 member states.

 

The Parliamentary Assembly’s opinion will be presented to the Council of Europe’s Committee of Ministers. This body, composed of the Foreign Ministers of member states, has the final say on whether or not to adopt the draft Convention on Access to Official Documents in its present form or to set up a process for redrafting. Sweden currently holds the Chairmanship of the Council of Europe (May to November 2008).

 

The PACE Opinion can be found at: http://assembly.coe.int/Mainf.asp?link=/Documents/AdoptedText/ta08/EOPI270.htm

 

Notes for Editors

 

Drafting of the Council of Europe Convention on Access to Official Documents took place from January 2006 to February 2008 and was conducted by a group of experts, predominantly government representatives, from 15 of the Council of Europe’s 47 member states. Access Info Europe, ARTICLE 19 and the Justice Initiative participated in the drafting meetings of as observers.

 

The concerns raised during the process by over 250 civil society groups were also raised by, amongst others, 12 Information Commissioners from Estonia, Germany, Hungary, Latvia, Macedonia, Serbia, Slovenia, Switzerland and the UK, by the OSCE’s Representative on Freedom of the Media, and by the Council of Europe’s Steering Committee on the Media and New Communication Services.

 

Access Info Europe is an independent non-governmental organization dedicated to promoting the right of access to information as a fundamental human right in and of itself, and as an essential tool for participation in government decision-making, for holding governments accountable, and for defence of other human rights.

 

ARTICLE 19 is an independent human rights organisation that works around the world to protect and promote the right to freedom of expression. It takes its name from Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which guarantees free speech.

 

The Open Society Justice Initiative, an operational program of the Open Society Institute, pursues law reform activities grounded in the protections of human rights, and contributes to the development of legal capacity for open societies worldwide.  All work performed by Open Society Justice Initiative staff in connection with this project was undertaken on behalf of, and paid for by, the Open Society Policy Center, a separate 501(c)(4) entity.

 

For more information, please contact:

 

·         Helen Darbishire, Executive Director, Access Info Europe

               + 34 667 685 319   helen@...

·         Sejal Parmar, Senior Legal Officer, ARTICLE 19,

              + 44 20 7239 1192   sejal@...

·         Darian Pavli, Legal Officer, Open Society Justice Initiative

              + 1 646 247 4504     dpavli@...

 

 

 

 

 


#24736 From: cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@...>
Date: Mon Oct 6, 2008 7:20 pm
Subject: RE: Allen's answers to Nanette's "BOE questions for Allen and Diane"
CynthiaVaillancourt@...
Send Email Send Email
 
How about getting answers to these questions from Ellen Giles and Janet Siddiqui --- and Di Zou and Betsy Grater.  Ellen and Janet can tell us how much time they DO spend on BOE business.  I agree that civility has been improved - though I don't get the sense there have been any good tests of wills.  I would also like to hear from the others what changed they would like to see or have been working on.  I don't want to accept that the incumbents will be returned to the board as a matter of fact.  With the challengers we have to judge what we think they will do --- with the incumbents we ought to be able to judge based on what they HAVE done.

Ellen, Janet - are you there?

Betsey, Di - any thoughts.

Thank you,
Cindy Vaillancourt

ps- I'm working on a post for the HoCoMD blog about the BOE race - and would like to have more information directly fromt eh candidates to include.



To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
From: aldyer@...
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 17:48:05 -0400
Subject: [howardpubliced] Allen's answers to Nanette's "BOE questions for Allen and Diane"

----- Original Message -----
From: nanette_schweitzer
Subject: [howardpubliced] BOE questions for Allen and Diane

> I have a couple of questions for Allen and Diane regarding the BOE;
>
> 1. How many hours a week, do you believe you would spend working on
> BOE business?

hi nanette,
i see serving on the board of education as being at least as demanding as
a half time job. i would expect to spend at least 20 hours a week on
board duties. i am hopeful that many of those duties (research, coorespondence,
drafting, telephone calls, etc.) can be performed at my home office workspace.
i also hope to provide some sort of on-going online narrative of exactly what i am
doing as a board member (however boring that may be) in order to improve
the transparency of the board operations and give future board candidates
a better idea of what they are getting into.

> 2.To me, this BOE has been the best BOE we have had in a long time.They
> are pleasant and cordial to each other even when they disagree, and
> they are respectful to those that come before them at Board meetings.
> How do you see yourself getting along with the BOE if you are elected?

i agree with your evaluation of the current members of the board. the current
board members are doing a good job of treating the community, and each other,
with respect. i have had cordial interactions with all of the current members of
the board and i don't see any problem working with any of them or, for that matter,
with any of the current board candidates either.

but, treating people with respect and being civil is NOT the same thing
as agreeing with them. i remain concerned that the existing board members
do not have enough open discussions of the various issues. i hope to
add to the robustness with which various options and perspectives are
discussed during public meetings of the board. i like to talk about public
education issues and i am always willing to present different perspectives.

i believe in the cacophony of democracy.

> 3. What would be your priorities be and what do you want to see changed?
> Nanette

i believe the top priority of the board should be the elimination of the achievement
gap. our county is very fortunate to have so many resources available and i hope
our teachers, administrators, students, parents and board members are going to
prove that, working together, it is possible to eliminate the achievement gap.

thank you for your questions.

allen dyer
candidate for board of education

------------------------------------

This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original messages posted here are placed in
the public domain unless the poster states otherwise. Re-published messages (i.e. newspaper
articles) retain their original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links




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#24737 From: "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...>
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 1:52 pm
Subject: diplomas & standardized tests -- Fw: [Howard County Special Ed] Sun editorial of interest on HSAs and Students with Disabilities
aldyeraldyer
Send Email Send Email
 
appended is a cross post from the howard county special ed list regarding montgomery
county's efforts to correct some of the silliness associated with the state board of education
mandated high school assessment requirements for issuance of a high school diploma.
 
also, last night i attended a session at the faulkner ridge center on the high school assessments
(Bridge Plan for Academic Validation, Mod-MSA, Alt-MSA, and MSA) as it relates to special ed .
 
my impression -- while i can see a number of justifications for high school assessments,
i see no valid justification for holding a student's high school diploma hostage to
passing any standardized test.  the maryland state board of education made a truly
WRONG decision when it decided to deny students a high school diploma unless
they passed a "standardized" battery of tests.
 
more importantly, our own local board of education has FAILED to take appropriate
action to get the state board's wrongheaded decision reversed or overturned.
 
til the memory of man runeth not to the contrary -- when a student attends the
required high school classes and receives passing grades in those classes,
that student is awarded a high school diploma.  any efforts by the state board
of education to change the definition of what a high school diploma means
should be forcefully opposed by our board of education.  our local board
should represent and protect the interests of our students and our teachers.
 
hostage taking should always be resisted.
 
my opinion,
allen dyer
candidate for board of education
 
p.s. i can't believe montgomery county's board of ed has more spine
than ours.
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 8:22 AM
Subject: [Howard County Special Ed] Sun editorial of interest on HSAs and Students with Disabilities

Weast and Grasmick spar over HSAs
Boy, have the words gotten angry between Jerry D. Weast, Montgomery
County's school superintendent, and Nancy Grasmick, the state schools
chief, over the High School Assessments.

Weast has objected before to aspects of the high-stakes tests that
this year's seniors will have to pass before they can graduate in May,
but this latest letter on Sept. 22 was written with unusually
confrontational language. Weast wrote Grasmick saying that she ought
to go easy on schools where a certain group of special education
students hadn't been able to pass a new version of the High School
Assessments.

The Mod-HSA, a new test started last year with the intention of
simplifying the questions in the HSA without dumbing it down, was
never field-tested. When it was given last spring, significant
problems developed, Weast said. The failure rates were very high, a
fact that MSDE has already acknowledged. He believes the department
didn't give teachers enough time to prepare these special education
students to take the new test. In addition, he said, they struggled
because the test went on for too long. Given that, Weast argued that
the state ought to make exceptions for schools that don't meet the
standards for Adequate Yearly Progress this year because their special
education students couldn't pass the Mod-HSAs. Weast said in his
letter that there had been "significant flaws that unfairly punish our
students and our schools."

I won't go into all the details outlined in the letter. Anyone with a
lot of curiosity and a lot of arcane knowledge about No Child Left
Behind can read the full letter here.

Grasmick's response was just as chilly. You can read the full version
here. She defends her department for six pages and says: "Perhaps in
the future, you will seek a more positive communication approach to
resolving questions and answers."

But Grasmick has made some modifications that Weast was requesting.
First, she asked for and got from the feds the ability to give schools
a break for the next year if they don't meet AYP only because their
special education students didn't pass the mod-HSA.

In addition, Grasmick is going to allow students who have only failed
the HSA once to go ahead and start a project to try to complete the
graduation requirement. The rule says you have to have failed the HSA
twice to be eligible for the project, but the state says it will give
some students a break because they didn't take the test until the end
of their junior year. The students will still have to keep trying to
pass the test. MSDE says that it would have made the changes despite
complaints from Weast.

Interestingly, school board members from Montgomery County have been
very skeptical of the HSAs as well. So far, the remaining
superintendents in the state seem to be hanging tough and supporting
going ahead with the HSA.

We wonder if the rebellion will spread elsewhere in the state.

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#24738 From: "Allen Dyer" <aldyer@...>
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 2:10 pm
Subject: attack the problem -- NOT THE STUDENT Re: [Howard County Special Ed] diplomas
aldyeraldyer
Send Email Send Email
 
becky,
 
if "the grades were a farce" then that problem should be addressed.  don't hold
a student's diploma hostage because a particular teacher or a particular school
has a problem.
 
students are NOT RESPONSIBLE for the quality (or lack thereof) of their school.
 
only a mean person or an idiot would punish a student because the teachers and
administrators are substandard.
 
allen
 
----- Original Message -----
From: RSYOSH@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2008 10:09 AM
Subject: [Howard County Special Ed] diplomas

Allen -
Here's the other side of the problem
I've personally advocated for several students in this state who have sat  in the seat and "passed" classes and been pushed to graduate, without having  actually learned what they need to learn to graduate.
The grades were a farce.
 
- Becky Yoshitani
 
 
In a message dated 10/7/2008 9:56:34 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  aldyer@... writes:

til  the memory of man runeth not to the contrary -- when a student attends  the
required high school classes and receives passing grades in those  classes,
that student is awarded a high school diploma. any efforts by the  state board
of education to change the definition of what a high school  diploma means
should be forcefully opposed by our board of education. our  local board
should represent and protect the interests of our students and  our teachers. 







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#24739 From: "nanette_schweitzer" <NanetteMS@...>
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 6:18 pm
Subject: Re: Allen's answers to Nanette's "BOE questions for Allen and Diane"
nanette_schw...
Send Email Send Email
 
Actually, I did ask my questions to Betsy at a community meeting she
attended. I haven't seen Di ZOu - is he still running?   Ellen and
Janet have demonstrated what they have to offer and what they bring
to the Board.

Allen mentioned  20 hours a week as an average to work on BOE
matters. This is may be on the low side. I believe our present Board
works many more hours - I would guess and hope someone answers, but I
think they work closer to an average of 30 hr a week.  The BOE
position is a thankless job at times (parents unhappy, etc.) but the
BOE members are truly dedicated to community service. This position
most likely doesn't pay even minimum wage

  This BOE presently is above pettiness - they can agree to disagree
and be cordial - it makes good working relationship and everyone
benefits. I am hoping the new BOE will continue this practice/

Nanette

--- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt
<CynthiaVaillancourt@...> wrote:
>
>
> How about getting answers to these questions from Ellen Giles and
Janet Siddiqui --- and Di Zou and Betsy Grater.  Ellen and Janet can
tell us how much time they DO spend on BOE business.  I agree that
civility has been improved - though I don't get the sense there have
been any good tests of wills.  I would also like to hear from the
others what changed they would like to see or have been working on.
I don't want to accept that the incumbents will be returned to the
board as a matter of fact.  With the challengers we have to judge
what we think they will do --- with the incumbents we ought to be
able to judge based on what they HAVE done.
>
> Ellen, Janet - are you there?
>
> Betsey, Di - any thoughts.
>
> Thank you,
> Cindy Vaillancourt
>
> ps- I'm working on a post for the HoCoMD blog about the BOE race -
and would like to have more information directly fromt eh candidates
to include.
>
>
> To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
> From: aldyer@...
> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 17:48:05 -0400
> Subject: [howardpubliced] Allen's answers to Nanette's "BOE
questions  for Allen and Diane"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>             ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: nanette_schweitzer
>
> Subject: [howardpubliced] BOE questions for Allen and Diane
>
>
>
> > I have a couple of questions for Allen and Diane regarding the
BOE;
>
> >
>
> > 1.  How many hours a week, do you believe you would spend working
on
>
> >      BOE business?
>
>
>
> hi nanette,
>
> i see serving on the board of education as being at least as
demanding as
>
> a half time job.  i would expect to spend at least 20 hours a week
on
>
> board duties.  i am hopeful that many of those duties (research,
coorespondence,
>
> drafting, telephone calls, etc.) can be performed at my home office
workspace.
>
> i also hope to provide some sort of on-going online narrative of
exactly what i am
>
> doing as a board member (however boring that may be) in order to
improve
>
> the transparency of the board operations and give future board
candidates
>
> a better idea of what they are getting into.
>
>
>
> > 2.To me, this BOE has been the best BOE we have had in a long
time.They
>
> > are pleasant and cordial to each other even when they disagree,
and
>
> > they are respectful to those that come before them at Board
meetings.
>
> > How do you see yourself getting along with the BOE if you are
elected?
>
>
>
> i agree with your evaluation of the current members of the board.
the current
>
> board members are doing a good job of treating the community, and
each other,
>
> with respect.  i have had cordial interactions with all of the
current members of
>
> the board and i don't see any problem working with any of them or,
for that matter,
>
> with any of the current board candidates either.
>
>
>
> but, treating people with respect and being civil is NOT the same
thing
>
> as agreeing with them.  i remain concerned that the existing board
members
>
> do not have enough open discussions of the various issues.  i hope
to
>
> add to the robustness with which various options and perspectives
are
>
> discussed during public meetings of the board.  i like to talk
about public
>
> education issues and i am always willing to present different
perspectives.
>
>
>
> i believe in the cacophony of democracy.
>
>
>
> > 3. What would be your priorities be and what do you want to see
changed?
>
> >  Nanette
>
>
>
> i believe the top priority of the board should be the elimination
of the achievement
>
> gap.  our county is very fortunate to have so many resources
available and i hope
>
> our teachers, administrators, students, parents and board members
are going to
>
> prove that, working together, it is possible to eliminate the
achievement gap.
>
>
>
> thank you for your questions.
>
>
>
> allen dyer
>
> candidate for board of education
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
> This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List.  All original
messages posted here are placed in
>
> the public domain unless the poster states otherwise. Re-published
messages (i.e. newspaper
>
> articles) retain their original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live.
> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-
Blog-cns!550F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008
>

#24740 From: cynthia vaillancourt <CynthiaVaillancourt@...>
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 9:14 pm
Subject: RE: Re: Allen's answers to Nanette's "BOE questions for Allen and Diane"
CynthiaVaillancourt@...
Send Email Send Email
 

What were Betsey's answers?   Is she a member of this listserve?  Is she aware of the electronic community?

Are Ellen and Janet excused from engaging with the electorate?   When it comes to the question of how much time each actually spends on BOE matters - the only demonstration we see is in the time spent in public, particularly at scheduled meetings.  If that were the only time spent on BOE matters then the question would be moot for all the candidates.

I'm not trying to quibble here.  I suspect Ellen spends some extraordinary amount of time that would shock most voters.  I have no idea how much time Janet actually spends on BOE matters other than attending meetings.  In fact, I think a report on the attendance rates of the various members at scheduled events and meetings would be very interesting. 

We can leave it to individual voters to figure out for themselves what each of the incumbents have demonstrated as her contribution to the BOE.  Most won't bother.  A very small percentage of voters even on this list serve attend the public forum opportunities.  A few more will watch the televised LWV forum. 

I don't expect the BOE members to compete for hours logged.  But I do appreciate the one's who make an effort to engage with the community on this forum. 

For those who don't know, Nanette voluntarily spends an extraordinary amount of time on education matters advocating for the kids in this county.  She could probably answer these questions for Ellen and Janet - and I would love to hear her answers.  But that only accomplishes part of the task, for me. I am interested in whether the incumbent candidates consider this small but active "special interest group" worthy of their attention and what their answers to the questions would be.

The failure of the candidates to answer is an answer to another question.  And yes, I do expect BOE  candidates AND members to at least monitor this list as a means of keeping in touch with the community.

Cindy Vaillancourt


To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
From: NanetteMS@...
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2008 18:18:44 +0000
Subject: [howardpubliced] Re: Allen's answers to Nanette's "BOE questions for Allen and Diane"

Actually, I did ask my questions to Betsy at a community meeting she
attended. I haven't seen Di ZOu - is he still running? Ellen and
Janet have demonstrated what they have to offer and what they bring
to the Board.

Allen mentioned 20 hours a week as an average to work on BOE
matters. This is may be on the low side. I believe our present Board
works many more hours - I would guess and hope someone answers, but I
think they work closer to an average of 30 hr a week. The BOE
position is a thankless job at times (parents unhappy, etc.) but the
BOE members are truly dedicated to community service. This position
most likely doesn't pay even minimum wage

This BOE presently is above pettiness - they can agree to disagree
and be cordial - it makes good working relationship and everyone
benefits. I am hoping the new BOE will continue this practice/

Nanette

--- In howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com, cynthia vaillancourt
<CynthiaVaillancourt@...> wrote:
>
>
> How about getting answers to these questions from Ellen Giles and
Janet Siddiqui --- and Di Zou and Betsy Grater. Ellen and Janet can
tell us how much time they DO spend on BOE business. I agree that
civility has been improved - though I don't get the sense there have
been any good tests of wills. I would also like to hear from the
others what changed they would like to see or have been working on.
I don't want to accept that the incumbents will be returned to the
board as a matter of fact. With the challengers we have to judge
what we think they will do --- with the incumbents we ought to be
able to judge based on what they HAVE done.
>
> Ellen, Janet - are you there?
>
> Betsey, Di - any thoughts.
>
> Thank you,
> Cindy Vaillancourt
>
> ps- I'm working on a post for the HoCoMD blog about the BOE race -
and would like to have more information directly fromt eh candidates
to include.
>
>
> To: howardpubliced@yahoogroups.com
> From: aldyer@...
> Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 17:48:05 -0400
> Subject: [howardpubliced] Allen's answers to Nanette's "BOE
questions for Allen and Diane"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: nanette_schweitzer
>
> Subject: [howardpubliced] BOE questions for Allen and Diane
>
>
>
> > I have a couple of questions for Allen and Diane regarding the
BOE;
>
> >
>
> > 1. How many hours a week, do you believe you would spend working
on
>
> > BOE business?
>
>
>
> hi nanette,
>
> i see serving on the board of education as being at least as
demanding as
>
> a half time job. i would expect to spend at least 20 hours a week
on
>
> board duties. i am hopeful that many of those duties (research,
coorespondence,
>
> drafting, telephone calls, etc.) can be performed at my home office
workspace.
>
> i also hope to provide some sort of on-going online narrative of
exactly what i am
>
> doing as a board member (however boring that may be) in order to
improve
>
> the transparency of the board operations and give future board
candidates
>
> a better idea of what they are getting into.
>
>
>
> > 2.To me, this BOE has been the best BOE we have had in a long
time.They
>
> > are pleasant and cordial to each other even when they disagree,
and
>
> > they are respectful to those that come before them at Board
meetings.
>
> > How do you see yourself getting along with the BOE if you are
elected?
>
>
>
> i agree with your evaluation of the current members of the board.
the current
>
> board members are doing a good job of treating the community, and
each other,
>
> with respect. i have had cordial interactions with all of the
current members of
>
> the board and i don't see any problem working with any of them or,
for that matter,
>
> with any of the current board candidates either.
>
>
>
> but, treating people with respect and being civil is NOT the same
thing
>
> as agreeing with them. i remain concerned that the existing board
members
>
> do not have enough open discussions of the various issues. i hope
to
>
> add to the robustness with which various options and perspectives
are
>
> discussed during public meetings of the board. i like to talk
about public
>
> education issues and i am always willing to present different
perspectives.
>
>
>
> i believe in the cacophony of democracy.
>
>
>
> > 3. What would be your priorities be and what do you want to see
changed?
>
> > Nanette
>
>
>
> i believe the top priority of the board should be the elimination
of the achievement
>
> gap. our county is very fortunate to have so many resources
available and i hope
>
> our teachers, administrators, students, parents and board members
are going to
>
> prove that, working together, it is possible to eliminate the
achievement gap.
>
>
>
> thank you for your questions.
>
>
>
> allen dyer
>
> candidate for board of education
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
> This is the Howard Public Education Mailing List. All original
messages posted here are placed in
>
> the public domain unless the poster states otherwise. Re-published
messages (i.e. newspaper
>
> articles) retain their original copyright status.Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live.
> http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-
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>




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#24741 From: Cassie Kilroy Thompson <cassiekt@...>
Date: Tue Oct 7, 2008 10:25 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Allen's answers to Nanette's "BOE questions for Allen and Diane"
cassiekilroy...
Send Email Send Email
 
And lest Cindy be accused as being alone in this belief, I also feel it is important for BOE candidates AND members at least to monitor this list (and other similar lists), but would look favorably upon any candidate or member who actively participates in list discussions.
--
Cassie Kilroy Thompson
---------




On Oct 7, 2008, at 5:14 PM, cynthia vaillancourt wrote:

The failure of the candidates to answer is an answer to another question.  And yes, I do expect BOE  candidates AND members to at least monitor this list as a means of keeping in touch with the community.

Cindy Vaillancourt


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