Could you give an example of the type of over the counter epoxy that
could be used, I am familiar with "Devcon 2 Ton" but thats about it.
The suggestion about wallpaper paste was great and I will try that
with my next cores.

Hey...
I bet polyester resin (FG) did give you a fit. The actual uses for polyester
resin is very limited. It does not saturate well and you must never thin it with
acetone. The only way you can get polyester resin to totally harden is to
encapsulate it. This is done by mixing wax with the resin that will float to the
surface, or spraying the wet resin with a mixture of liquid vinyl and alcohol.
You dont want to try that with a core. Try an epoxy resin such as WEST System,
or any of the 50/50 epoxies that are out there, they will air dry.
I think I would stay away from some laminating resins because they are also
designed to stay tacky on the surface to adhear to the subsequent layers of a
laminent.
By the way, FG or GRP (glass reinforced plastic)is a really good way to make
your core molds, but not the cores

Lyle <creepinogie@...> wrote:
Well, I haven't tried that fancy low vis. epoxy but i can say just
using regular fiberglass resin in sand is a bitch. It will not set up
even after a week and that's with using 5x the recommended amount of
hardener. It mixes pretty easy with a paint mixer on the end of a
drill and packs into the corebox, but just won't set up.

I've tried the portland cement recipie as well and it's good only for
bulky cores. If you have fins like a cylinder head it's really dicey
doing the withdrawl from the corebox.

Some guys have used rubber cement althoiugh I havent. My best luck so
for is the sodium silicate but they don't keep very long in this
humid environment.

The experiment continues...

LL

--- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Spelling"
wrote:
> re: epoxy.
>
> I've used probably 40 gallons of it in boat building.
>
> Wear disposible gloves.
>
> Shakeout: Just be sure to was you core mold! :-)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Allen"
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 9:19 AM
> Subject: [hobbicast] Core making
>
>
> > Now I think we have two more very good recipies for cores.
> >
> > 20 parts sand to 1 part 5 min. epoxy
> > The epoxy core idea sounds pretty good as long as you dong get
that stuff all over your hands. I would emagine that is works well
> for small stuff. I wonder about shakeout though.
> >
> > 10 parts course sand to 1 part portland cement
> > I bet this is great for bigger stuff and also working with cast
iron.
> >
> > I am going to try them both...
> >
> > Thanks
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > This list is for discussion of metal casting
> > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to
share photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank
> message to: sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
> > For additional file and picture space you may upload files of
interest to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castingproject
> > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
> > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
> >
> > Files area and list services are at:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
> >
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom,  Many thanks for your great and informative response.  PEOPLE!!  You need
to archive or print Tom Corbett's expert advice for future reference!

Best,  Jerry
Foundryman in Missouri, USA
Custom Castings by Twaddell
foundryman@...
http://members.igateway.net/~jtwad/


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jeff,
Yes, your right - it did give me a fit. Tom C about a year or so agao
gave some very good info with specific brand names of the epoxy resin
he sometimes used when everything else fails. But I could only find
it 5 gallons at a time. I'd need to buy 10 gallons - 5 each of the
resin and the hardener (and they don't mix 50/50) so I thought I'd
give cheapo polyester fiberglass resin a try. Well, I'm here to
advise everyone else on this list - don't try it. I just got my 50lb
co2 tank charged so it's back to sodium silicate for now.

Lyle

--- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Allen <grandknight2003@y...>
wrote:
> Hey...
> I bet polyester resin (FG) did give you a fit. The actual uses for
polyester resin is very limited. It does not saturate well and you
must never thin it with acetone. The only way you can get polyester
resin to totally harden is to encapsulate it. This is done by mixing
wax with the resin that will float to the surface, or spraying the
wet resin with a mixture of liquid vinyl and alcohol. You dont want
to try that with a core. Try an epoxy resin such as WEST System, or
any of the 50/50 epoxies that are out there, they will air dry.
> I think I would stay away from some laminating resins because they
are also designed to stay tacky on the surface to adhear to the
subsequent layers of a laminent.
> By the way, FG or GRP (glass reinforced plastic)is a really good
way to make your core molds, but not the cores
>
> Lyle <creepinogie@y...> wrote:
> Well, I haven't tried that fancy low vis. epoxy but i can say just
> using regular fiberglass resin in sand is a bitch. It will not set
up
> even after a week and that's with using 5x the recommended amount
of
> hardener. It mixes pretty easy with a paint mixer on the end of a
> drill and packs into the corebox, but just won't set up.
>
> I've tried the portland cement recipie as well and it's good only
for
> bulky cores. If you have fins like a cylinder head it's really
dicey
> doing the withdrawl from the corebox.
>
> Some guys have used rubber cement althoiugh I havent. My best luck
so
> for is the sodium silicate but they don't keep very long in this
> humid environment.
>
> The experiment continues...
>
> LL
>
> --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Spelling"
> wrote:
> > re: epoxy.
> >
> > I've used probably 40 gallons of it in boat building.
> >
> > Wear disposible gloves.
> >
> > Shakeout: Just be sure to was you core mold! :-)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Allen"
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 9:19 AM
> > Subject: [hobbicast] Core making
> >
> >
> > > Now I think we have two more very good recipies for cores.
> > >
> > > 20 parts sand to 1 part 5 min. epoxy
> > > The epoxy core idea sounds pretty good as long as you dong get
> that stuff all over your hands. I would emagine that is works well
> > for small stuff. I wonder about shakeout though.
> > >
> > > 10 parts course sand to 1 part portland cement
> > > I bet this is great for bigger stuff and also working with cast
> iron.
> > >
> > > I am going to try them both...
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
> > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and
to
> share photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank
> > message to: sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
> > > For additional file and picture space you may upload files of
> interest to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castingproject
> > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
> > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
> > >
> > > Files area and list services are at:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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> > >
>
>
> This list is for discussion of metal casting
> and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to
share photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
> For additional file and picture space you may upload files of
interest to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castingproject
> Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
> http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
>
> Files area and list services are at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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by email:
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>
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>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You can get decent epoxy, small amounts, from www.raka.com.

For a small core, I'd be tempted to use the little tubes from Home Depot,
thinned with acetone.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lyle" <creepinogie@...>
To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 12:56 PM
Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Core making


> Jeff,
> Yes, your right - it did give me a fit. Tom C about a year or so agao
> gave some very good info with specific brand names of the epoxy resin
> he sometimes used when everything else fails. But I could only find
> it 5 gallons at a time. I'd need to buy 10 gallons - 5 each of the
> resin and the hardener (and they don't mix 50/50) so I thought I'd
> give cheapo polyester fiberglass resin a try. Well, I'm here to
> advise everyone else on this list - don't try it. I just got my 50lb
> co2 tank charged so it's back to sodium silicate for now.
>
> Lyle
>
> --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Allen <grandknight2003@y...>
> wrote:
> > Hey...
> > I bet polyester resin (FG) did give you a fit. The actual uses for
> polyester resin is very limited. It does not saturate well and you
> must never thin it with acetone. The only way you can get polyester
> resin to totally harden is to encapsulate it. This is done by mixing
> wax with the resin that will float to the surface, or spraying the
> wet resin with a mixture of liquid vinyl and alcohol. You dont want
> to try that with a core. Try an epoxy resin such as WEST System, or
> any of the 50/50 epoxies that are out there, they will air dry.
> > I think I would stay away from some laminating resins because they
> are also designed to stay tacky on the surface to adhear to the
> subsequent layers of a laminent.
> > By the way, FG or GRP (glass reinforced plastic)is a really good
> way to make your core molds, but not the cores
> >
> > Lyle <creepinogie@y...> wrote:
> > Well, I haven't tried that fancy low vis. epoxy but i can say just
> > using regular fiberglass resin in sand is a bitch. It will not set
> up
> > even after a week and that's with using 5x the recommended amount
> of
> > hardener. It mixes pretty easy with a paint mixer on the end of a
> > drill and packs into the corebox, but just won't set up.
> >
> > I've tried the portland cement recipie as well and it's good only
> for
> > bulky cores. If you have fins like a cylinder head it's really
> dicey
> > doing the withdrawl from the corebox.
> >
> > Some guys have used rubber cement althoiugh I havent. My best luck
> so
> > for is the sodium silicate but they don't keep very long in this
> > humid environment.
> >
> > The experiment continues...
> >
> > LL
> >
> > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Spelling"
> > wrote:
> > > re: epoxy.
> > >
> > > I've used probably 40 gallons of it in boat building.
> > >
> > > Wear disposible gloves.
> > >
> > > Shakeout: Just be sure to was you core mold! :-)
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jeff Allen"
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 9:19 AM
> > > Subject: [hobbicast] Core making
> > >
> > >
> > > > Now I think we have two more very good recipies for cores.
> > > >
> > > > 20 parts sand to 1 part 5 min. epoxy
> > > > The epoxy core idea sounds pretty good as long as you dong get
> > that stuff all over your hands. I would emagine that is works well
> > > for small stuff. I wonder about shakeout though.
> > > >
> > > > 10 parts course sand to 1 part portland cement
> > > > I bet this is great for bigger stuff and also working with cast
> > iron.
> > > >
> > > > I am going to try them both...
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Jeff
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
> > > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and
> to
> > share photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank
> > > message to: sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
> > > > For additional file and picture space you may upload files of
> > interest to:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castingproject
> > > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
> > > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
> > > >
> > > > Files area and list services are at:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > hobbicast-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > For problems that cannot be otherwise solved contact the list
> > owner by email:
> > > > owly@t...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> > This list is for discussion of metal casting
> > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to
> share photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
> sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
> > For additional file and picture space you may upload files of
> interest to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castingproject
> > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
> > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
> >
> > Files area and list services are at:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
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> >
> >
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
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> > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> This list is for discussion of metal casting
> and does not accept attachments.  For off topic discussion and to share photos
and stuff:  join Sandcrabs by sending a blank
message to: sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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> For additional file and picture space you may upload files of interest to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castingproject
> Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
> http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
>
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>
>

Okay,
Back to the resin for one moment, then I will leave it alone.
You can get the resin (several brands) from most any boat shop.
If you ask for epoxy resin, they will most likely ask you which of several you
would like.
WEST System is the most popular, I dont remember the exact mix ratio, but it is
something like 25/75 this is great stuff, but if you mix it in a bulk container
it may cook off quickly and even boil over. (ouch!) I think it is 3M that makes
the 50/50 resin. It is much more user friendly. Oh and you can get them both in
quart sets.

Jeff

Richard Spelling <richard@...> wrote:
You can get decent epoxy, small amounts, from www.raka.com.

For a small core, I'd be tempted to use the little tubes from Home Depot,
thinned with acetone.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lyle"
To:
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 12:56 PM
Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Core making


> Jeff,
> Yes, your right - it did give me a fit. Tom C about a year or so agao
> gave some very good info with specific brand names of the epoxy resin
> he sometimes used when everything else fails. But I could only find
> it 5 gallons at a time. I'd need to buy 10 gallons - 5 each of the
> resin and the hardener (and they don't mix 50/50) so I thought I'd
> give cheapo polyester fiberglass resin a try. Well, I'm here to
> advise everyone else on this list - don't try it. I just got my 50lb
> co2 tank charged so it's back to sodium silicate for now.
>
> Lyle
>
> --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Allen
> wrote:
> > Hey...
> > I bet polyester resin (FG) did give you a fit. The actual uses for
> polyester resin is very limited. It does not saturate well and you
> must never thin it with acetone. The only way you can get polyester
> resin to totally harden is to encapsulate it. This is done by mixing
> wax with the resin that will float to the surface, or spraying the
> wet resin with a mixture of liquid vinyl and alcohol. You dont want
> to try that with a core. Try an epoxy resin such as WEST System, or
> any of the 50/50 epoxies that are out there, they will air dry.
> > I think I would stay away from some laminating resins because they
> are also designed to stay tacky on the surface to adhear to the
> subsequent layers of a laminent.
> > By the way, FG or GRP (glass reinforced plastic)is a really good
> way to make your core molds, but not the cores
> >
> > Lyle wrote:
> > Well, I haven't tried that fancy low vis. epoxy but i can say just
> > using regular fiberglass resin in sand is a bitch. It will not set
> up
> > even after a week and that's with using 5x the recommended amount
> of
> > hardener. It mixes pretty easy with a paint mixer on the end of a
> > drill and packs into the corebox, but just won't set up.
> >
> > I've tried the portland cement recipie as well and it's good only
> for
> > bulky cores. If you have fins like a cylinder head it's really
> dicey
> > doing the withdrawl from the corebox.
> >
> > Some guys have used rubber cement althoiugh I havent. My best luck
> so
> > for is the sodium silicate but they don't keep very long in this
> > humid environment.
> >
> > The experiment continues...
> >
> > LL
> >
> > --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Spelling"
> > wrote:
> > > re: epoxy.
> > >
> > > I've used probably 40 gallons of it in boat building.
> > >
> > > Wear disposible gloves.
> > >
> > > Shakeout: Just be sure to was you core mold! :-)
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Jeff Allen"
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 9:19 AM
> > > Subject: [hobbicast] Core making
> > >
> > >
> > > > Now I think we have two more very good recipies for cores.
> > > >
> > > > 20 parts sand to 1 part 5 min. epoxy
> > > > The epoxy core idea sounds pretty good as long as you dong get
> > that stuff all over your hands. I would emagine that is works well
> > > for small stuff. I wonder about shakeout though.
> > > >
> > > > 10 parts course sand to 1 part portland cement
> > > > I bet this is great for bigger stuff and also working with cast
> > iron.
> > > >
> > > > I am going to try them both...
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Jeff
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This list is for discussion of metal casting
> > > > and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and
> to
> > share photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank
> > > message to: sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
> > > > For additional file and picture space you may upload files of
> > interest to:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castingproject
> > > > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
> > > > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
> > > >
> > > > Files area and list services are at:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
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> > owner by email:
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> >
> >
> > This list is for discussion of metal casting
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> share photos and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
> sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
> > For additional file and picture space you may upload files of
> interest to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castingproject
> > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
> > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
> >
> > Files area and list services are at:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > hobbicast-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > For problems that cannot be otherwise solved contact the list owner
> by email:
> > owly@t...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> This list is for discussion of metal casting
> and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share photos
and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank
message to: sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
> For additional file and picture space you may upload files of interest to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castingproject
> Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
> http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
>
> Files area and list services are at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


This list is for discussion of metal casting
and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share photos
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For additional file and picture space you may upload files of interest to:
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Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

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I'm new to this foundry stuff having just constructed my tiny
furnace this spring and I am still developing my methods of work
with the fantastic input from this list.

Now that I have refined my furnace to a very workable state I would
like to focus my efforts on the sand that I am using for casting.

I am working with a green sand ( sand / bentonite / water ) and have
yet to be satisfied with the surface finish that I have acheived.
Some sections are great, smooth and shiny while other sections on
the same part will be course and terrible.

I've been reading everything that I can on the list about mulling
and would like to start a thread on different methods of mulling
without a full on mulling machine.

Mostly I have been mixing and packing my sand my hand in a 5 gallon
bucket, And I have concluded as others have said on this list that
this does not work very well.  My latest attempt was to dump my sand
out on a plastic sheet and fold the sheet over it and then jump up
and down on it for about a half hour, mixing and breaking it up
regularly.  (Great aerobic exersise and this seemed to really change
the sands characteristics but I have not done a pour into it yet.)

Yes, I know that everyone talks about the oil based sands working
wonderfully, but I live in a very residential area and must do my
foundry work in an open garage, I think that the smoke from oil
sands might bring the local fire department, let alone the wrath
from my better half over the stench from the smoke.

Check out

http://home.iprimus.com.au/cmckeown/muller.htm

----- Original Message -----
From: "davidcmgd" <davidc@...>
To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2003 12:54 PM
Subject: [hobbicast] Mullerless Mulling


> I'm new to this foundry stuff having just constructed my tiny
> furnace this spring and I am still developing my methods of work
> with the fantastic input from this list.
>
> Now that I have refined my furnace to a very workable state I would
> like to focus my efforts on the sand that I am using for casting.
>
> I am working with a green sand ( sand / bentonite / water ) and have
> yet to be satisfied with the surface finish that I have acheived.
> Some sections are great, smooth and shiny while other sections on
> the same part will be course and terrible.
>
> I've been reading everything that I can on the list about mulling
> and would like to start a thread on different methods of mulling
> without a full on mulling machine.
>
> Mostly I have been mixing and packing my sand my hand in a 5 gallon
> bucket, And I have concluded as others have said on this list that
> this does not work very well.  My latest attempt was to dump my sand
> out on a plastic sheet and fold the sheet over it and then jump up
> and down on it for about a half hour, mixing and breaking it up
> regularly.  (Great aerobic exersise and this seemed to really change
> the sands characteristics but I have not done a pour into it yet.)
>
> Yes, I know that everyone talks about the oil based sands working
> wonderfully, but I live in a very residential area and must do my
> foundry work in an open garage, I think that the smoke from oil
> sands might bring the local fire department, let alone the wrath
> from my better half over the stench from the smoke.
>
>
> This list is for discussion of metal casting
> and does not accept attachments.  For off topic discussion and to share
photos and stuff:  join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
> For additional file and picture space you may upload files of interest to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castingproject
> Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
> http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
>
> Files area and list services are at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> hobbicast-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> For problems that cannot be otherwise solved contact the list owner by
email:
> owly@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Is anyone on this list familial with a W.D. Adams Manufacturing Company of
Chicago?  I have contacts with someone who found a threaded cast fitting,
labeled with this name and 1 1/2 (presumed to be 1.5 inches).  Do you have
any idea what they made?  This would appear to be pre WW II from where it
was found.   Dan P.

Well, I made some very nice cores.  The secret was as posted here: use a
mold (duh).  With the mold, molasses sand works fine, and is cheap &
available.

For the cylindrical core, I wrapped a couple of turns of aluminum
flashing around a tube of the desired diameter, bound it with circle
clamps and removed the tube.  I packed the core sand inside and baked
it.  Took off the clamps and unwound the flashing: perfect cores.

For another one, I made a core pattern in wood, molded plaster of paris
around it and used the plaster as the core mold.  The plaster broke
unmolding the core, but was reusable.  This was a really indirect
process: I made a pattern to make a mold to make a core to make a
pattern to make a part!

Thanks again for the responses,
Bob

After I have rammed up a pattern and am removing it, I get breaks in the
mold along the parting line.  I.e., the edges break off.  Here's a
picture:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/bobengelhardt/mold.JPG

The red petrobond is showing through the parting dust (talcum powder)
where the edges have broken.  The cope is shown, but it happens on the
drag too.  As to size - the depth of the mold is about 1/8".

Any suggestions?

TIA,
Bob

Check your mold to see if it has a slight negative taper or slight under cut
at the parting line.
It only has to have the smallest floor for the sand to key in and pull away
when you remove the mold.
Another possibility is that the petrobond is not mulled well enough.




----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Engelhardt" <bobengelhardt@...>
To: <castinghobby@yahoogroups.com>; <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 12:17 PM
Subject: [hobbicast] Advice needed on molding technique


> After I have rammed up a pattern and am removing it, I get breaks in the
> mold along the parting line.  I.e., the edges break off.  Here's a
> picture:
>
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/bobengelhardt/mold.JPG
>
> The red petrobond is showing through the parting dust (talcum powder)
> where the edges have broken.  The cope is shown, but it happens on the
> drag too.  As to size - the depth of the mold is about 1/8".
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> TIA,
> Bob
>
>
> This list is for discussion of metal casting
> and does not accept attachments.  For off topic discussion and to share
photos and stuff:  join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
> For additional file and picture space you may upload files of interest to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castingproject
> Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
> http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
>
> Files area and list services are at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> hobbicast-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> For problems that cannot be otherwise solved contact the list owner by
email:
> owly@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

David:

I mix my green sand in a wheel borrow using a garden hoe.  In my case this
works quite well.

When I break out a casting I place the hardened sand (the sand next to the
casting) on the garage concrete floor and walk on it to break it up.  Then
run it through my sieve make from 1/4 hardware cloth.  I put the sand back
into the wheel borrow and temper as I mix it back in.  Mixing takes about 5
minuets.

Another place you might want to check for surface finish problems is your
pouring temperature.  I found that most of my surface finish problems are
due to pouring to hot.  For parts with 1/4 sections or larger pour after
about 1 minute of super heat.  Start timing as soon as the last of the
charge is melted.  When you find the correct temperature, make notes.  I
write notes on the pattern so if I want to pour the same pattern in the
future a have an idea where to start.

Im starting to build a furnice and have assembled allmost every thing
I need (body, forms, burner, silica, perlite, ect.)but I cant find
firecaly is it known by another name or am I looking in the wrong
places. Im in the Ottawa Canada ariea so any one with local knowlage
would be a great help.

thanks again Jon

Thanks for all the suggestions.  I'm going to practice a bit and try
them all.  I suspect that a good part of the problem is my newbieness.
Bob

Bob,

Usually I mount my patterns on a board.  Tnen you need to add a fillet
where the edges of the pattern meets the board.  This helps prevent
breakout of the edges.  I assume that you are rapping the pattern
before trying to remove it (this will loosen it slightly).  However,
if you rub a spoon around the edge of the pattern before you pull it
it will sometimes help it come out without breaking the edges.

Good luck,
Alan
Alan's MachineWorks
www.alansmachineworks.com

--- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, Bob Engelhardt <bobengelhardt@c...>
wrote:
> After I have rammed up a pattern and am removing it, I get breaks in the
> mold along the parting line.  I.e., the edges break off.  Here's a
> picture:
>
> http://mywebpages.comcast.net/bobengelhardt/mold.JPG
>
> The red petrobond is showing through the parting dust (talcum powder)
> where the edges have broken.  The cope is shown, but it happens on the
> drag too.  As to size - the depth of the mold is about 1/8".
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> TIA,
> Bob

try your local pottery suply store, furnace repair, boiler repair, mason supply,
fire place repair.  You local yelow pages will yeild a plethora of information. 
You migt even look under foundry supply or glass art. You are looking for
castable refractory.  If you are using some thing the size of a 20# propane
cylinder remember to have your exaust hole about 4 to 5 inches in diamater. 
Bevel or round the edged to keep the noise down as The hot air exits from your
furnace.  When using the castible refractory you can do layers .  2400 degree
for the firearea backed by a mixture of perlite and   2400 degree refractory. 
This will save some money on the constructron.  If you put a lip on the inside
of your furnace lid you will not need the wires that a lot of the web sites talk
about to hold the refractory in place.
If you have any further questions you can contact me off line at danqualman at
Yahoo dot com
Dan in Auburn
blunt0865 <j_levett@...> wrote:
Im starting to build a furnice and have assembled allmost every thing
I need (body, forms, burner, silica, perlite, ect.)but I cant find
firecaly is it known by another name or am I looking in the wrong
places. Im in the Ottawa Canada ariea so any one with local knowlage
would be a great help.

thanks again Jon


This list is for discussion of metal casting
and does not accept attachments. For off topic discussion and to share photos
and stuff: join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
For additional file and picture space you may upload files of interest to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castingproject
Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
http://budgetcastingsupply.com/

Files area and list services are at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
hobbicast-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

For problems that cannot be otherwise solved contact the list owner by email:
owly@...



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I built mine with ordinary pottery clay.
----- Original Message -----
From: "blunt0865" <j_levett@...>
To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 5:42 PM
Subject: [hobbicast] fireclay?????


> Im starting to build a furnice and have assembled allmost every thing
> I need (body, forms, burner, silica, perlite, ect.)but I cant find
> firecaly is it known by another name or am I looking in the wrong
> places. Im in the Ottawa Canada ariea so any one with local knowlage
> would be a great help.
>
> thanks again Jon
>
>
> This list is for discussion of metal casting
> and does not accept attachments.  For off topic discussion and to share
photos and stuff:  join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
> For additional file and picture space you may upload files of interest to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castingproject
> Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
> http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
>
> Files area and list services are at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> hobbicast-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> For problems that cannot be otherwise solved contact the list owner by
email:
> owly@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Here is my method:

(Al purchased materials were from Porter-Warner Ind. {300# = $15.00})

In a 10 gallon washtub....

Combine  22-1/2# Fine moulding sand. and 2-1/2# SOUTHERN Bentonite

    (Western bentonite will work as well, but you will have to figure
the proportions out for yourself  and don't even try this with kitty
litter)

Mix well by hand, (I use one of those gardening claws that looks like
a small 4 tined rake.)

Now pour 20 ounces of tapwater into a spray bottle.

MIST the top layer of sand and let sit for a few minutes.

(Do not soak the sand at this point as it will clunp up and be a pain
to get correct after this)

After the water has soaked in a bit, mix the sand a bit and repeat
until you run out of water.

Then pour the sand into an air proof bucket for a while to normalize.

And you now have 25# of foundry sand that is easy to regenerate.  (I
usually just mist the burnt sand really good after a session and let
it sit until the next time, by which time the water has soaked in and
all you have to do is a quick mix in order to start molding)

This method produces a packable sand that will produce a clean
breaking snowball.

A light dusting of fairly dry feeling sand will stick to your hands,
but will brush right off when the sand is tempered correctly.

If nothing sticks to your hand, add water.

If it is coating your skin and is slightly sticky, you have too much
water.  Either let sit out to dry slightly, or mix with some dryer
foundry sand to acheive the proper mix.

Feel free to e-mail me with questions or comments, I have no money,
space or friends with mullers, so I gotta do it manually!

For fire clay try a brick yard or check with a brick mason on where to get
it.

But  But ...
Does it coat the sand properly without the pressing action ???

I too will soon be needing greensand .. and dont have a muller or equivelent
device ...Yet !!!  nuk nuk
And if you could post the stock #'s for the porter warner  stuff .. That
would be kewl ..
Im only minutes away from them ..
Thanx ..

----- Original Message -----
From: "cvedrick" <cvedrick@...>
To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 12:32 PM
Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Mullerless Mulling


> Here is my method:
>
> (Al purchased materials were from Porter-Warner Ind. {300# = $15.00})
>
> In a 10 gallon washtub....
>
> Combine  22-1/2# Fine moulding sand. and 2-1/2# SOUTHERN Bentonite
>
>    (Western bentonite will work as well, but you will have to figure
> the proportions out for yourself  and don't even try this with kitty
> litter)
>
> Mix well by hand, (I use one of those gardening claws that looks like
> a small 4 tined rake.)
>
> Now pour 20 ounces of tapwater into a spray bottle.
>
> MIST the top layer of sand and let sit for a few minutes.
>
> (Do not soak the sand at this point as it will clunp up and be a pain
> to get correct after this)
>
> After the water has soaked in a bit, mix the sand a bit and repeat
> until you run out of water.
>
> Then pour the sand into an air proof bucket for a while to normalize.
>
> And you now have 25# of foundry sand that is easy to regenerate.  (I
> usually just mist the burnt sand really good after a session and let
> it sit until the next time, by which time the water has soaked in and
> all you have to do is a quick mix in order to start molding)
>
> This method produces a packable sand that will produce a clean
> breaking snowball.
>
> A light dusting of fairly dry feeling sand will stick to your hands,
> but will brush right off when the sand is tempered correctly.
>
> If nothing sticks to your hand, add water.
>
> If it is coating your skin and is slightly sticky, you have too much
> water.  Either let sit out to dry slightly, or mix with some dryer
> foundry sand to acheive the proper mix.
>
> Feel free to e-mail me with questions or comments, I have no money,
> space or friends with mullers, so I gotta do it manually!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> This list is for discussion of metal casting
> and does not accept attachments.  For off topic discussion and to share
photos and stuff:  join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
> For additional file and picture space you may upload files of interest to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castingproject
> Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
> http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
>
> Files area and list services are at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> hobbicast-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> For problems that cannot be otherwise solved contact the list owner by
email:
> owly@...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

I just ran across this web site
http://www.junkyardjet.com/primitive.html
about an attempt to build a jet engine. It is well worth reading for
someone building propane burners. He has experimented with things like
preheating the propane, different nozzles and continous ignition.

Jim Hannon

Hey Yoda, What town do you live in?

I just got the stuff by going to Porter Warner, telling the guy I
wanted some bentonite and some sand to make moulding sand with.

He was cool enough to give me a printout copy of a 10 page study on
the subject.

No I never actually pressed the clay into the sand, then again I get
the fine powdered bentonite that when mixed as stated below will coat
the sand just fine.

The trick is that the clay is so fine that it bypases the "sticky
clump" stage although you might consider the whold process as micro
mulling due to the fact that if done correctly, the mixing stages do
actually mull the sand and clay, you just never notice the clumps and
chunks!

The reason I am asking where you live, is I need to whip up some more
myself and two is company, one is just bored!


-- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Yoda" <chue2k@a...> wrote:
> But  But ...
> Does it coat the sand properly without the pressing action ???
>
> I too will soon be needing greensand .. and dont have a muller or
equivelent
> device ...Yet !!!  nuk nuk
> And if you could post the stock #'s for the porter warner  stuff ..
That
> would be kewl ..
> Im only minutes away from them ..
> Thanx ..
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "cvedrick" <cvedrick@y...>
> To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 12:32 PM
> Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Mullerless Mulling
>
>
> > Here is my method:
> >
> > (Al purchased materials were from Porter-Warner Ind. {300# =
$15.00})
> >
> > In a 10 gallon washtub....
> >
> > Combine  22-1/2# Fine moulding sand. and 2-1/2# SOUTHERN Bentonite
> >
> >    (Western bentonite will work as well, but you will have to
figure
> > the proportions out for yourself  and don't even try this with
kitty
> > litter)
> >
> > Mix well by hand, (I use one of those gardening claws that looks
like
> > a small 4 tined rake.)
> >
> > Now pour 20 ounces of tapwater into a spray bottle.
> >
> > MIST the top layer of sand and let sit for a few minutes.
> >
> > (Do not soak the sand at this point as it will clunp up and be a
pain
> > to get correct after this)
> >
> > After the water has soaked in a bit, mix the sand a bit and repeat
> > until you run out of water.
> >
> > Then pour the sand into an air proof bucket for a while to
normalize.
> >
> > And you now have 25# of foundry sand that is easy to regenerate.
(I
> > usually just mist the burnt sand really good after a session and
let
> > it sit until the next time, by which time the water has soaked in
and
> > all you have to do is a quick mix in order to start molding)
> >
> > This method produces a packable sand that will produce a clean
> > breaking snowball.
> >
> > A light dusting of fairly dry feeling sand will stick to your
hands,
> > but will brush right off when the sand is tempered correctly.
> >
> > If nothing sticks to your hand, add water.
> >
> > If it is coating your skin and is slightly sticky, you have too
much
> > water.  Either let sit out to dry slightly, or mix with some dryer
> > foundry sand to acheive the proper mix.
> >
> > Feel free to e-mail me with questions or comments, I have no
money,
> > space or friends with mullers, so I gotta do it manually!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This list is for discussion of metal casting
> > and does not accept attachments.  For off topic discussion and to
share
> photos and stuff:  join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
> sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
> > For additional file and picture space you may upload files of
interest to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castingproject
> > Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
> > http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
> >
> > Files area and list services are at:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > hobbicast-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > For problems that cannot be otherwise solved contact the list
owner by
> email:
> > owly@t...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >

Can aluminum be melted in a cupola type furnace where it is in
contact with the refractory?

Im in Grand Prairie Tx ...
I go to the Porter Warner in Arlington ..
I need to get to know the peeps there a little better ..
I asked the guy in the Warehouse when I picked up the refractory what the
water mixture ratio is
with the Spar 30 I was getting ...
Major deer in the headlights reaction ...
Need to interface with some of the guys that know things about their
products  :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "cvedrick" <cvedrick@...>
To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 4:49 PM
Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Mullerless Mulling


> Hey Yoda, What town do you live in?
>
> I just got the stuff by going to Porter Warner, telling the guy I
> wanted some bentonite and some sand to make moulding sand with.
>
> He was cool enough to give me a printout copy of a 10 page study on
> the subject.
>
> No I never actually pressed the clay into the sand, then again I get
> the fine powdered bentonite that when mixed as stated below will coat
> the sand just fine.
>
> The trick is that the clay is so fine that it bypases the "sticky
> clump" stage although you might consider the whold process as micro
> mulling due to the fact that if done correctly, the mixing stages do
> actually mull the sand and clay, you just never notice the clumps and
> chunks!
>
> The reason I am asking where you live, is I need to whip up some more
> myself and two is company, one is just bored!
>
>
> -- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Yoda" <chue2k@a...> wrote:
> > But  But ...
> > Does it coat the sand properly without the pressing action ???
> >
> > I too will soon be needing greensand .. and dont have a muller or
> equivelent
> > device ...Yet !!!  nuk nuk
> > And if you could post the stock #'s for the porter warner  stuff ..
> That
> > would be kewl ..
> > Im only minutes away from them ..
> > Thanx ..
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "cvedrick" <cvedrick@y...>
> > To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 12:32 PM
> > Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Mullerless Mulling
> >
> >
> > > Here is my method:
> > >
> > > (Al purchased materials were from Porter-Warner Ind. {300# =
> $15.00})
> > >
> > > In a 10 gallon washtub....
> > >
> > > Combine  22-1/2# Fine moulding sand. and 2-1/2# SOUTHERN Bentonite
> > >
> > >    (Western bentonite will work as well, but you will have to
> figure
> > > the proportions out for yourself  and don't even try this with
> kitty
> > > litter)
> > >
> > > Mix well by hand, (I use one of those gardening claws that looks
> like
> > > a small 4 tined rake.)
> > >
> > > Now pour 20 ounces of tapwater into a spray bottle.
> > >
> > > MIST the top layer of sand and let sit for a few minutes.
> > >
> > > (Do not soak the sand at this point as it will clunp up and be a
> pain
> > > to get correct after this)
> > >
> > > After the water has soaked in a bit, mix the sand a bit and repeat
> > > until you run out of water.
> > >
> > > Then pour the sand into an air proof bucket for a while to
> normalize.
> > >
> > > And you now have 25# of foundry sand that is easy to regenerate.
> (I
> > > usually just mist the burnt sand really good after a session and
> let
> > > it sit until the next time, by which time the water has soaked in
> and
> > > all you have to do is a quick mix in order to start molding)
> > >
> > > This method produces a packable sand that will produce a clean
> > > breaking snowball.
> > >
> > > A light dusting of fairly dry feeling sand will stick to your
> hands,
> > > but will brush right off when the sand is tempered correctly.
> > >
> > > If nothing sticks to your hand, add water.
> > >
> > > If it is coating your skin and is slightly sticky, you have too
> much
> > > water.  Either let sit out to dry slightly, or mix with some dryer
> > > foundry sand to acheive the proper mix.
> > >
> > > Feel free to e-mail me with questions or comments, I have no
> money,
> > > space or friends with mullers, so I gotta do it manually!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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Is it a bad idea to make a Burner jet on a brass tube ???
The body of the burner will be steel of course ..
Im just talking about the tube where the jet is ...

No it actually a good idea.  Brass is a lot easer to machine with hand tools
than steel.  take a look at this site.  The burner that Camron has displayed is
good enough to melt brass and possably iron. 
http://home.iprimus.com.au/cmckeown/new_furnace.htm.  These are a pretty good
copy of the DR Franken Burner design.
Dan in Auburn

Yoda <chue2k@...> wrote:
Is it a bad idea to make a Burner jet on a brass tube ???
The body of the burner will be steel of course ..
Im just talking about the tube where the jet is ...


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The Brass is no problem for a jet, the flame on a properly working
burner will be nowhere near it, when it is working properly.  You
have to keep in mind that the flow rate through your jet (tube) is a
function of its ID and the length of the tube, a long fine diameter
tube will limit your gas flow and require a large backpressure to
pass enough fuel to the burner.  To demonstrate this try to breathing
through a straw.

When I made my small burner (1/2 black pipe burner tube) I fabricated
a brass burner jet out of some 3/16 stock that was threaded for 10-32
and drilled the orifice to #69.  I then drilled from the backside
with a larger drill like a #55 so that the length of the small
diameter hole was only a few diameters long at most.

Remember to use a magnifying glass and make sure that all burrs are
removed around the orifice when fabricating your jet by whatever
method.

--- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Yoda" <chue2k@a...> wrote:
> Is it a bad idea to make a Burner jet on a brass tube ???
> The body of the burner will be steel of course ..
> Im just talking about the tube where the jet is ...

How long did you make the e1/2" burner tube?

Clint

----- Original Message -----
From: "davidcmgd" <davidc@...>
To: <hobbicast@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 9:18 AM
Subject: [hobbicast] Re: Propane burners


> The Brass is no problem for a jet, the flame on a properly working
> burner will be nowhere near it, when it is working properly.  You
> have to keep in mind that the flow rate through your jet (tube) is a
> function of its ID and the length of the tube, a long fine diameter
> tube will limit your gas flow and require a large backpressure to
> pass enough fuel to the burner.  To demonstrate this try to breathing
> through a straw.
>
> When I made my small burner (1/2 black pipe burner tube) I fabricated
> a brass burner jet out of some 3/16 stock that was threaded for 10-32
> and drilled the orifice to #69.  I then drilled from the backside
> with a larger drill like a #55 so that the length of the small
> diameter hole was only a few diameters long at most.
>
> Remember to use a magnifying glass and make sure that all burrs are
> removed around the orifice when fabricating your jet by whatever
> method.
>
> --- In hobbicast@yahoogroups.com, "Yoda" <chue2k@a...> wrote:
> > Is it a bad idea to make a Burner jet on a brass tube ???
> > The body of the burner will be steel of course ..
> > Im just talking about the tube where the jet is ...
>
>
> This list is for discussion of metal casting
> and does not accept attachments.  For off topic discussion and to share
photos and stuff:  join Sandcrabs by sending a blank message to:
sandcrabs-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sandcrabs
> For additional file and picture space you may upload files of interest to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castingproject
> Please visit our sponsor: Budget Casting Supply
> http://budgetcastingsupply.com/
>
> Files area and list services are at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hobbicast
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> hobbicast-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> For problems that cannot be otherwise solved contact the list owner by
email:
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>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>