Dear Robert,

Thank you for your response.

Just a question for the list, would it be possible to study all the dances
and then actually  compete only in the trews dances(the national dance)?

My son is adamant about the kilt at this age, may change later, or when he
sees lots of boys in them.

Also, the US media makes incessant fun of kilts and mocks Scots nonstop, not
just the kilts but the bagpipes as well.

At 01:22 PM 1/23/98 -0500, you wrote:
>>For competition and performance, though, there really
>>is no substitute for a kilt.
>
>As a male dancer who has competed in and performed
>highland dance for quite awhile, I suppose I should
>add my two cents worth. Which is that I basically agree
>with Elizabeth and Sonya that highland dancing can
>be done with much greater precision in a kilt, and
>this is why it is required for competition. A kilt
>is also great for performance; but for variety it
>is often fun and effective to dance in trews. To
>tie this issue together with another issue discussed
>recently on this list, I think the Earl of Errol is
>a dance that is very effective in trews, whether
>hard shoe or soft!
>
>Cheers,
>--Robert McOwen
>
>
>--
>mcowen@... (Robert McOwen)
>To subscribe to highland-dance, send mail to majordomo@...
>with "subscribe highland-dance" in the body.
>
>

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Mary <moira@...>
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Is there a list of teachers for the US somewhere? I would like to access it,
have friends in other states and provinces that are interested in lessons. I
am on some homeschooling lists and these kids (home schooled)  would make
good students. I posted about my daughter taking lessons and got many responses.

Thanks so much.

Moira

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Mary <moira@...>
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Hello
The one and only CD I use is called "The Competitive Highland
Dancer's Champion's Choice" by Donald MacPhee.  My dance teacher uses
it often as most of the dancers like both the tempos and tunes.  It has 34
tunes on it of both Highland and National dances as well as the Irish
Jig and Sailor's Hornpipe.  The address on the bottom says:
McIntosh Bagpipe Supplies
6003 Valkeith
Houston, Texas, U.S.A. 77096
Tel. (713) 723-5434
I got it from the dancing supply place in Toronto called Winnie's
Workshop so you may be able to get it at other places as well.

Hope this helps,
Eilidh
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"Eilidh C.B. Gerow" <eiligero@...>
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>For competition and performance, though, there really
>is no substitute for a kilt.

As a male dancer who has competed in and performed
highland dance for quite awhile, I suppose I should
add my two cents worth. Which is that I basically agree
with Elizabeth and Sonya that highland dancing can
be done with much greater precision in a kilt, and
this is why it is required for competition. A kilt
is also great for performance; but for variety it
is often fun and effective to dance in trews. To
tie this issue together with another issue discussed
recently on this list, I think the Earl of Errol is
a dance that is very effective in trews, whether
hard shoe or soft!

Cheers,
--Robert McOwen


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Confirmation of reading: your message -

     Date:    23 Jan 98  9:42
     To:       highland-dance@...
     Subject:  Re: [highland-dance] Boys and Kilts and Trews

Was read at 11:35, 23 Jan 1998.



--
"Sonya E. Melcher" <MELCHER@...>
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Not sure I agree: highland steps can be done relatively easily
wearing a good pair of trews (i.e. the style that is designed to be
worn with a kilt jacket, not just tartan trousers/slacks).

And of course, trews have been around a lot longer than the modern
kilt...

I've seen boys competing in Highland dance competitions wearing
trews, though I don't know whether this is part of the SOBHD dress
code.

Cheers

Iain

>
> This is not true in highland *competition*, the SOBHD does have a dress
> code.  I would also point out that it is difficult to do shedding properly
> in trousers.
>
> Elizabeth
>


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Elizabeth Ditchburn <editchburn@...> writes:

> This is not true in highland *competition*, the SOBHD does have a dress
> code.

True enough. I don't know how it is in the US, but over here in Germany
few Highland dancers could care less about SOBHD competitions. There is
certainly no need to worry about competition dress codes if you just
want to enjoy yourself dancing.

Anselm
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Anselm Lingnau <lingnau@...>
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Hi

All my children dance competively and we use a CD called
"The Competing Highland Dancer" by Stuart Liddell for
practice and their teacher uses this CD when a piper is
unavailable for lessons. It has all the competative dances
on it and has a number of versions of the music, 25 tunes in
total. According to the CD it was produced by SCOTDISC, BGS
Productions Ltd. Newton St, Kilsyth, Scotland, G65 0JX, not
sure you could get it direct but a decent record shop should
be able to order it.

John Rushforth
-----Original Message-----
From: Craig Williams <williamc@...>
To: highland <highland-dance@...>
Date: Tuesday, January 20, 1998 12:10
Subject: [highland-dance] music


>Hi all
>
>This past weekend my SO and I were going through various
recordings of music
>for the Highland Fling. We were trying to find one that we
were
>comfortable with and liked. I was wondering if anyone out
there has a
>tune or set of tunes that the prefer to use for the fling
or the
>strathspey and reel or any other.
>
>The one we settled on was one of the selections from the
Simon Fraser Univ.
>Pipe band. Unfortunately, the tunes used are not listed so
I don't know
>what they were playing. The selection was just titled
Highland Fling 6
>step (slow). I found the selection good except for the last
8 bars which
>were difficult to count and keep tempo too.
>
>Anyway, I welcome your comments
>Craig Williams
>Saskatoon, Sk
>
>--
>Craig Williams <williamc@...>
>To subscribe to highland-dance, send mail to
majordomo@...
>with "subscribe highland-dance" in the body.
>

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Elizabeth Ditchburn wrote:
>
> Shiobhan O'Donnell wrote:
>
> > , and we
> > dance it in Hard shoe.
>
> <snip>
>
> >  The only thing
> > about dancing a Highland dance in Jig shoes is that the legs can get
> > tired with the extra weight.
> >
>
> Thats interesting.  Do you dance it in hard shoe in competition down there?
> Granted its been years since I've seen it done in competition, and its been
> a very long time since I took my medal tests, but here in the Northeastern
> US its always danced in regular shoes in those situations.
>
> Do you just use your normal Irish Jig shoes for it?  If so, I'd like to give
> that a try.  I've always felt it was silly to have a pair of shoes for just
> one dance.  Of course my jig shoes are green and will clash horribly with my
> red and blue national outfit.  :-)
>
> Elizabeth
>
> --
> "Elizabeth Ditchburn" <editchburn@...>
> To subscribe to highland-dance, send mail to majordomo@...
> with "subscribe highland-dance" in the body.

Hi Elizabeth,
Highland in New Zealand also includes Irish national dancing so our jig
shoes are more like those you see in Riverdance etc, black with only
heel and toe plates that are not loose. The dance is always danced in
hard shoe but we do not dance this dance in competition. Until the last
10 years these national dances were'nt danced at all over here in favour
of the Irish national. Now we have them in Medal tests and for
concerts/demonstrations, rarely competitions.
Hope this was of help,
Shiobhan
P.S For boys the Seann Triubhais can be performed in Trews over here.
--
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-----Original Message-----
From: Mary [SMTP:moira@...]
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 1998 5:11 AM
To: highland-dance@...
Subject: [highland-dance] Boys and Kilts

My son is an Irish dancer and kilts are optional. It used to be in Irish
dance that they were required, but the rules were relaxed to encourage more
boys to participate.

My son is interested in Scottish dance but we have been told there is NO WAY
even a beginner can be allowed to dance in pants.

I am sure however, that I DID see some boys in plaid (tartan) cloth at the
Pleasanton Games, dancing in pants.

	 Those are tartan trews. They're quite traditional. There are paintings of Niel
Gow wearing them.


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>>> Mary <moira@...> 22/01/98  08:11 am >>>
My son is interested in Scottish dance but we have been told there is
NO WAY even a beginner can be allowed to dance in pants.

I am sure however, that I DID see some boys in plaid (tartan) cloth at
the Pleasanton Games, dancing in pants.

Doews anyone know if there are any exceptions to the kilt rule??? Even
for Beginners?
<<<

Competition rules for dress are pretty strict - these boys were
probably doing National dances, where the kilt can be replaced by
trews.  I've never seen a competitor doing the Highland (Fling, Sword,
Seann Truibhas, Reels) in anything other than a kilt  - but then,
making that statement should be just enough for someone to jump in and
prove me wrong! (although for young beginners, they are not AS picky
about dress, e.g. the hose)

ON THE OTHER HAND, that shouldn't stop your son from dancing - only
from competing.  And maybe not even that, depending on your teacher.
My teacher is constantly scrounging old kilts for her younger dancers
to wear for competitions / exams / shows.  It's tough for kids because
they can grow out of the kilts so quickly, and they are expensive.  You
need to make compromises with young dancers.  But it does feel special
to do the dances in a kilt!

my $.02

Norah Link
Montreal

>

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Anselm Lingnau wrote:

> Allan MacLeod <a.macleod@...> writes:
>
> > Scottish stepdancing (as danced in Cape Breton) has no dress code. The
> > only rule is to have fun.
>
> The same goes for any other kind of Scottish dancing. If somebody tries
> to convince you otherwise, then just go dance someplace else. There are
> enough Scottish dancers around who aren't fussy about what you wear.
>

This is not true in highland *competition*, the SOBHD does have a dress
code.  I would also point out that it is difficult to do shedding properly
in trousers.

Elizabeth



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Allan MacLeod <a.macleod@...> writes:

> Scottish stepdancing (as danced in Cape Breton) has no dress code. The
> only rule is to have fun.

The same goes for any other kind of Scottish dancing. If somebody tries
to convince you otherwise, then just go dance someplace else. There are
enough Scottish dancers around who aren't fussy about what you wear.

Anselm

--
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Scottish stepdancing (as danced in Cape Breton) has no dress code. The
only rule is to have fun. Wearing hardish shoes which make a good sound
helps - trainers tend to be too sticky.

>----------
>From:  Mary[SMTP:moira@...]
>Sent:  22 January 1998 13:11
>To:  highland-dance@...
>Subject:  [highland-dance] Boys and Kilts
>
>My son is an Irish dancer and kilts are optional. It used to be in Irish
>dance that they were required, but the rules were relaxed to encourage more
>boys to participate.
>
>My son is interested in Scottish dance but we have been told there is NO WAY
>even a beginner can be allowed to dance in pants.
>
>I am sure however, that I DID see some boys in plaid (tartan) cloth at the
>Pleasanton Games, dancing in pants.
>
>Doews anyone know if there are any exceptions to the kilt rule??? Even for
>Beginners?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Moira
>
>
>--
>Mary <moira@...>
>To subscribe to highland-dance, send mail to majordomo@...
>with "subscribe highland-dance" in the body.
>
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Shiobhan O'Donnell wrote:

> , and we
> dance it in Hard shoe.

<snip>

>  The only thing
> about dancing a Highland dance in Jig shoes is that the legs can get
> tired with the extra weight.
>

Thats interesting.  Do you dance it in hard shoe in competition down there?
Granted its been years since I've seen it done in competition, and its been
a very long time since I took my medal tests, but here in the Northeastern
US its always danced in regular shoes in those situations.

Do you just use your normal Irish Jig shoes for it?  If so, I'd like to give
that a try.  I've always felt it was silly to have a pair of shoes for just
one dance.  Of course my jig shoes are green and will clash horribly with my
red and blue national outfit.  :-)

Elizabeth



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In a message dated 1/22/98 8:34:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, moira@...
writes:

<< My son is an Irish dancer and kilts are optional. It used to be in Irish
  dance that they were required, but the rules were relaxed to encourage more
  boys to participate. >>

Moira,

I think that the reason that more boys are wearing pants in Irish Dance is
because of the influence of Riverdance and Lord of the Dance.  I say Bravo!  I
know that my son who just turned 10, would not continue if he had to wear a
kilt.  He was quite adamant about it when he started dancing 3 years ago, and
still feels strongly about it.

Kathleen
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My son is an Irish dancer and kilts are optional. It used to be in Irish
dance that they were required, but the rules were relaxed to encourage more
boys to participate.

My son is interested in Scottish dance but we have been told there is NO WAY
even a beginner can be allowed to dance in pants.

I am sure however, that I DID see some boys in plaid (tartan) cloth at the
Pleasanton Games, dancing in pants.

Doews anyone know if there are any exceptions to the kilt rule??? Even for
Beginners?

Thanks in advance,

Moira


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Hi everyone,
My name is Shiobhan and I am a Highland dancer, teacher and Judge from
New Zealand. I can tell you a little about the Earl of Errol:
"Isobel Cramb considers that Francis Peacock composed this dance about
1762 to honour the 15th Earl of Errol, Hereditary High Constable of
Scotland and a great patron of the Arts" From Medal test for Senior
bronze, New Zealand Academy of Highland and National Dancing (inc)
In New Zealand both girls and Boys dance it, boys using arms, and we
dance it in Hard shoe. There are six steps and two tunes "The Earl of
Errol" or "The 23rd Countess of Errol". A list of these steps can be
brought of the New Zealand Academy of Highland and National dancing. It
is a dance that I have danced alot and it is very lovely. The only thing
about dancing a Highland dance in Jig shoes is that the legs can get
tired with the extra weight.
Hope this is of interest,
Shiobhan
P.S. Popular Fling tunes over here are
The Marquis of Huntly
Dorrotor Bridge
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"Shiobhan O'Donnell" <Shiobhan.ODonnell@...>
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Hello,

> for the Highland Fling. We were trying to find one that we were
> comfortable with and liked. I was wondering if anyone out there has a
> tune or set of tunes that the prefer to use for the fling or the
> strathspey and reel or any other.

Alan Walters has a CD out called 'Strictly Time'. It is dance music played
on the cauld wind pipes with guitars and drums. It has some really great
stuff on it, I personally like the seann triubhas the best. All of the
music is for competition dance though... don't know if that is what you
are looking for.


Carmen Munawych

--
Carmen Munawych <munawych@...>
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Hi all

This past weekend my SO and I were going through various recordings of music
for the Highland Fling. We were trying to find one that we were
comfortable with and liked. I was wondering if anyone out there has a
tune or set of tunes that the prefer to use for the fling or the
strathspey and reel or any other.

The one we settled on was one of the selections from the Simon Fraser Univ.
Pipe band. Unfortunately, the tunes used are not listed so I don't know
what they were playing. The selection was just titled Highland Fling 6
step (slow). I found the selection good except for the last 8 bars which
were difficult to count and keep tempo too.

Anyway, I welcome your comments
Craig Williams
Saskatoon, Sk

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PLEASE TAKE ME OFF YOUR E-MAIL LIST.  THANK YOU
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Marie Sommers <envserv@...>
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Hello,

I've been lurking on this list for a while hoping to learn something about
Highland dancing, and indeed I have.  I, however, am unlikely ever to be
much of a dancer... two left feet and all that.  I am a fiddler though, and
my band "Stone Circle" is looking for a Scottish Traditional dancer to
perform with us here in the area around Vienna, Austria.  I can't
necessarily promise bundles of money, but we are looking for paying gigs.
Though it's probably a strange place for Scottish music and dance, ours is
not the only Celtic group performing in the area.   If anyone on this list
lives in the Vienna area or visits here from time to time and is interested
in performing with us (or trying us out at least) please contact me, either
at: <windrose@...>   or snail mail at:  Diefenbachgasse 44/25,
A-1150  Wien, Austria.

Katherine Doversberger


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Hi Craig,

Another data point concerning The Earl of Errol is that it is conjectured to
have been originally danced in hard-soled shoes and fairly recently (early
20th century?) modified for soft-sole performance. Colin Robertson, a teacher
active in the London (England) area, has published a reconstructed version
of the hardshoe dance, which can be danced to the same music but has a quite
different character. The notes for this version are available from the Scottish
National Dance Company.

Alan Twhigg
Mt. View, CA
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Hi Craig,
The Earl of Errol is a Scottish national dance like the Village Maid, Blue
Bonnets, Lilt, Flora etc.  It is done primarily by women in an aboyne
costume.  There is also a version which calls for the use of Highland arm
positions that I think is probably meant for men.

As you can probably imagine from the music, it's a very quick dance that
requires you to be very light on your feet!  It can be done in a 4 step or 6
step version.

I don't know how familiar you are with Highland dance movements, and I don't
know if I could adequately describe all the steps!  Hopefully, this is a
little more info than what you had before.  Also there is a book put out by
the S.D.T.A. which describes all national dances and their steps.  Sorry I
don't have a title for you.

Hope this helps!

Erin Columbus
Sydney River, Nova Scotia


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Craig Williams wrote:

> Hi all
>
> I was going over some of my Highland dance music and came across music for
> a dance called Earl of Errol. I've never hear or seen this dance before.
> Could anyone tell me what the dance is like and  where I might be able to
> find the instructions for it?
>
>

Earl of Errol is one of the National Dances.  Its not done in competition very
often...  I can only remember doing it in competition once.  The steps are
listed in the SDTA booklet on National dances.  Sorry, I don't have the exact
information on the booklet with me, since I'm at work and its at home.

The dance has a very soft feeling to it.  There are a lot of brushing motions,
lots of changes, a fair amount of pointing motions, no arm motions for ladies,
and no travel to speak of.  I think the dance wins the award for most frequent
use of the third aeriel low position.  :-)  Its sort of hard to give text
descriptions of dances.  I'll give you my interal chant for one of the most
common movements -- hop brush beat brush brush beat beat.

I hope this was helpful.

Elizabeth



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"Elizabeth Ditchburn" <editchburn@...>
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Hi all

I was going over some of my Highland dance music and came across music for
a dance called Earl of Errol. I've never hear or seen this dance before.
Could anyone tell me what the dance is like and  where I might be able to
find the instructions for it?

I know there is a Scottish country dance by the same name. The group here
in Saskatoon has even tried it but, I don't think this is what's meant
for the music.

Anyway the music is quite distinctive and I would like to try learning
it. If anyone is interested the music is off the Simon Fraser University
Pipe Band CD 'A Highcut Above.'

Happy dancing
Craig Williams
Saskatoon, SK,. Canada



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Hi all,

another question received over the holiday period I'm passing on.  I know
this is only peripherally related, but I thought someone might be able to
help.  Is there a bagpipe mailing list?

Again, please copy Laura on any replies: <LGSchwartz@...>

>>      I stumbled across your web page today.  I was wondering if you know
>of
>> any good bagpipe teachers in the Detroit area.  My son is seven and has
>been
>> asking to play the bagpipe for a couple of years.  Thanks, Laura

Cheers,

Ian
---
Ian.Brockbank@...         Edinburgh, Scotland
Grand Chain: The Scottish Dance Resource:
                  --- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ibb/scd/
>

Hi Sara,

Happy New Year!

>> I am writing to you to ask of you could give me some information on the
>> following dances: the Fling, the Sword, the Lilt, and the Flora. What I
>> need to know is the dance steps so that I may have a set of them for home
>> use. If you can get this information to me as soon as possible I would
>very
>> much appreciate it.

The Fling and the Swords (Gillie Chalium) are described in Highland Dancing,
the textbook of the Scottish Official Board of Highland Dancing, published
by Lindsay Publications, PO Box 812, Glasgow G14 9NP, Scotland, UK. ISBN 1
8981 6901 2.

If you have trouble finding a source for this, James Thin bookshops
( http://www.jthin.co.uk ) stock it, and they do mail order.

Hope this helps,

Ian
---
Ian.Brockbank@...         Edinburgh, Scotland
Grand Chain: The Scottish Dance Resource:
                  --- http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~ibb/scd/

[ I just received this.  Please copy her on replies.  Ian. ]

>From: NAME: Micheal J. Guffey,  MBA <mjg2214@...>
>To: NAME: owner-highland-dance <owner-highland-dance@...>
>
>To whom it may concern,
>
>I am writing to you to ask of you could give me some information on the
>following dances: the Fling, the Sword, the Lilt, and the Flora. What I
>need to know is the dance steps so that I may have a set of them for home
>use. If you can get this information to me as soon as possible I would very
>much appreciate it.
>
>Thank You!!!
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Sara Louise Guffey
>