i`ve recently become addicted to hammock sleeping & i`m still
working on system variations (homemade) for differant temps expected
in NC mountians spring through fall. as money alows & i continue to
read about differant options i`ll probably buy some of the great
sounding stuff i`ve been seeing on line. but i have a friend who`s
very interrested in the hammock, but wants to know how the weight of a
hammock sleep system compares to sleeping on a pad on ground in tent
or tarp. i know there are 2 million combination possibilitys for ea.
also i remember someone saying that you may not actualy reduce your
weight much if any w/ hammock (especialy if you sleep cold) but the
comfort factor is worth a small weight penalty in this area.  i wonder
if some mite be willing to comment on this subject?
thanks...slowhike

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "slowhike" <slowhike@y...> wrote:
>    i`ve recently become addicted to hammock sleeping & i`m still
> working on system variations (homemade) for differant temps expected
> in NC mountians spring through fall. as money alows & i continue to
> read about differant options i`ll probably buy some of the great
> sounding stuff i`ve been seeing on line. but i have a friend who`s
> very interrested in the hammock, but wants to know how the weight of a
> hammock sleep system compares to sleeping on a pad on ground in tent
> or tarp. i know there are 2 million combination possibilitys for ea.
> also i remember someone saying that you may not actualy reduce your
> weight much if any w/ hammock (especialy if you sleep cold) but the
> comfort factor is worth a small weight penalty in this area.  i wonder
> if some mite be willing to comment on this subject?
> thanks...slowhike

Slow,

My system weighs in at 2lbs, 7.1oz (tarp, hammock, bugnet, straps,
stakes).

http://www.peak.org/~webdawg/Hammocking/MirageHammockSystem/

Add to that my down under/over quilt at 33oz.

Shane "Mirage"...

Hello,
  I know you guys probably know about this but has anyone tried
the insulative material that has foil on each side with tiny
air bubbles inside? A friend of mine gave me some and it looks
promising.
  I would have searched this but I've noticed you can't search all of
the messages?

Thanks,

todd

My HH Asym BP'er tips the scales at about 2 lbs. my old tent (2 man
free standing dome) is 7 lbs. that gives me 5 lbs of play before i
even come close to tenting :-)


--
To some people motorcycling is a sport,
to others a hobby, and to some a lifestyle.
I wish it was just one of those to me,
for I am addicted.

maybe search on "reflectix".  or "bubbles".

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "athiker1994" <athiker94@g...>
wrote:
> Hello,
>  I know you guys probably know about this but has anyone tried
> the insulative material that has foil on each side with tiny
> air bubbles inside? A friend of mine gave me some and it looks
> promising.
>  I would have searched this but I've noticed you can't search all of
> the messages?
>
> Thanks,
>
> todd

When you get people's answers, make sure you compare apples to
apples.  Mirage has given you the weight of a system that is good in
blowing rain and even blowing sleet, and is also bug proof.  The
super UL guys will tend to quote stuff that is only good in certain
very specific not-too-bad situations.  Ryan Jordan's photos of his
PCT hike were very illustrative as far as the level of comfort one
might expect in a tarp/poncho type setup in the rain.  He is much
tougher than I am, smarter too, and better looking, so don't flame
me, please, Ryan's friends.

Bill in Houston

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Mirage" <mirage@p...> wrote:
> --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "slowhike" <slowhike@y...>
wrote:
> >    <snip> addicted to hammock sleeping <snip> but i have a friend
<snip>how the weight of a
> > hammock sleep system compares to sleeping on a pad on ground in
tent
> > or tarp. <snip>
> thanks...slowhike
>
> Slow,
>
> My system weighs in at 2lbs, 7.1oz (tarp, hammock, bugnet, straps,
> stakes).
>
> http://www.peak.org/~webdawg/Hammocking/MirageHammockSystem/
>
> Add to that my down under/over quilt at 33oz.
>
> Shane "Mirage"...

great responce on the hammock/tent weight comparison already! i`m
fowarding them to my friend. mabey he (jerome) will tune in to this
group himself.   also, he continues to wonder if the HH asym offset
design really makes a noticeable differance. i wonder too, since i
missed the oppertunity to join you guys in hot springs. but jerome & i
both are thinking that it would be better to have the bug net NOT
permantly attached to the hammock, because most of the time, in our
mountians,i don`t have much problem w/ insects & would rather have
open views.   thanks...slowhike

Hi Todd,
      The stuff of which you speak is called Reflectix.  It's a thermal
barrier (insulation) used in construction and HVAC applications.  It
works pretty well with the addition of some foil tape for making "pot
cozies".  That's about the extent of it though.  As an insulator for
hammocks it's just too bulky for the weight to make it worthwhile.
It's also quite "crinkly" and stiff so laying on the stuff isn't very
nice.  Some folks here have tried it but with somewhat poor results I
believe.

Just my $.02

John

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "athiker1994" <athiker94@g...>
wrote:
> Hello,
>  I know you guys probably know about this but has anyone tried
> the insulative material that has foil on each side with tiny
> air bubbles inside? A friend of mine gave me some and it looks
> promising.
>  I would have searched this but I've noticed you can't search all of
> the messages?
>
> Thanks,
>
> todd

The MacCat tarp is made by a guy named Brian MacMillin (hence the
name).  He makes a special catenary cut tarp just for hammocking
that's very nice.  I decided though to go with a "standard" 8x10
tarp that he also produces.....The website is

www.outdoorequipmentsupplier.com

The prices are quite reasonable and the workmanship is outstanding.

John

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, LivNLrn3R@a... wrote:

>
> I googled for mac cat tarp and didn't come up with anything. Do
you have a
> link?
>
> I do like the idea of keeping the rainfly out of the way if not
needed.
>
> Becki in CA
>

Hi all,

I'm new to this group which I joined to figure out whether to try
hammocking. I've been using a tarp system recently utilising a 5x8 ft
sil-nylon poncho (with a little bug netting over the torso and carry a
light-weight (250g) bivy for rougher weather and splash-back or
wind-driven rain - pretty much a necessity with a small tarp like
mine). My calculations suggest that so long as I can use my poncho
(which I would probably be taking in any case) as a canopy and keep my
bivy (perhaps out of necessity with the poncho as canopy - see
question below) I'd be carrying about the same amount of weight -
based on the Hennesy ultralight backpacker asym which is what I am
initially looking at getting - about 1025 grams.

So here's my first question: can a 5x8 ft rectanglular tarp be used
effectively as a canopy with a Hennessy, or is it too small? (A piece
of background I'm 5ft 7in and 160 pounds and camp mostly in Western
Canada where it can get pretty wet).

Second question: if the 5x8 ft canopy is not sufficient (which is my
guess), then using the supplied canopy with the Hennessy ultralight
backpacker am I likely to continue to need to carry a bivy for
wind-driven rain or can the canopy be effectively arranged so as to
eliminate that as a realistic concern?

I'm sure I'll have other questions in due course.

Cheers,

MG

Search the list about a year ago for information on double bottom
hammocks.  Also, my ZHammock is a double bottom hammock that keeps the
pad in place pretty well.

http://www.imrisk.com/zhammock/zhammock.htm

Rick

athiker1994 wrote:

> Hello again,
>
> I am realizing that keeping that foam pad put is a major obstacle to
> a good night's sleep. Does anyone have any recommendations on how to
> sew a second piece on to the bottom. I am thinking about sewing a
> piece of 1.1 oz nylon to the bottom that corresponds to the size of a
> pad with some give. I am assuming one would simply have to lay the pad
> on the bottom where it would usually be and trace a new piece to
> correspond to this layout? Any advice appreciated.
>
> Happy sleeping.
>
> Thanks,
> Todd
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Yahoo! Groups Links*
>
>     * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping/
>
>     * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>       hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>       <mailto:hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>     * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Weight for weight, thickness for thickness, it is quite a bit colder
than closed cell foam in my personal experiments.

Risk

jmellis01 wrote:

> Hi Todd,
>      The stuff of which you speak is called Reflectix.  It's a thermal
> barrier (insulation) used in construction and HVAC applications.  It
> works pretty well with the addition of some foil tape for making "pot
> cozies".  That's about the extent of it though.  As an insulator for
> hammocks it's just too bulky for the weight to make it worthwhile.
> It's also quite "crinkly" and stiff so laying on the stuff isn't very
> nice.  Some folks here have tried it but with somewhat poor results I
> believe.
>
> Just my $.02
>
> John
>
> --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "athiker1994" <athiker94@g...>
> wrote:
> > Hello,
> >  I know you guys probably know about this but has anyone tried
> > the insulative material that has foil on each side with tiny
> > air bubbles inside? A friend of mine gave me some and it looks
> > promising.
> >  I would have searched this but I've noticed you can't search all of
> > the messages?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > todd
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Yahoo! Groups Links*
>
>     * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping/
>
>     * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>       hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>       <mailto:hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>     * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

I get the impression that sleeping pads are an important feature with
hammock camping, even more so than for ground camping, presumably
because the "floor" somewhat curves up around the sleeper. So what
kind of sleeping pad would be useful? Does it need to be any thicker
than I might use for ground camping? Or does it just need to be wider
to curl up around the sides? Does the standard rectangular shape work
okay, or does a different shape work better? And are there any kinds
to avoid - for instance do thermarests work okay?

Cheers,

Martin

The sleeping pad is needed due to the fact that you don't have the
insulating of the earth to help keep you warm.  You can use a regular
sleeping pad like on the ground but what you need to do is figure out
for yourself what works the best.  Some people make their own with
side additions for the shoulders, I personally use the POE Max-Lite
Self-Inflating pad designed for women (has extra padding in the
"important" places ;-) but have also used a Thermarest 3/4 length
Ultra.

YMMV
Jodi

On 5/4/05, bedeutung <bedeutung@...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I get the impression that sleeping pads are an important feature with
> hammock camping, even more so than for ground camping, presumably
> because the "floor" somewhat curves up around the sleeper. So what
> kind of sleeping pad would be useful? Does it need to be any thicker
> than I might use for ground camping? Or does it just need to be wider
> to curl up around the sides? Does the standard rectangular shape work
> okay, or does a different shape work better? And are there any kinds
> to avoid - for instance do thermarests work okay?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Martin



--
" Everyday I am faced with challenges and I accept those challenges,
no matter how tough the reality of my life is. I can take it because I
believe in me and know that I can do what I set my mind to do."
Author Unknown

Are you asking if sleeping on the diagonal helps you sleep better?
It gives you a flatter line.

Ralph


On 5/4/05, slowhike <slowhike@...> wrote:
>   great responce on the hammock/tent weight comparison already! i`m
> fowarding them to my friend. mabey he (jerome) will tune in to this
> group himself.   also, he continues to wonder if the HH asym offset
> design really makes a noticeable differance. i wonder too, since i
> missed the oppertunity to join you guys in hot springs. but jerome & i
> both are thinking that it would be better to have the bug net NOT
> permantly attached to the hammock, because most of the time, in our
> mountians,i don`t have much problem w/ insects & would rather have
> open views.   thanks...slowhike
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Being rather new to hammocks I can say this.
Hammock + Cold weather adaptions are a bit lighter or about the same as a
tent for me.

Comfort is the deciding factor. Hammock wins out.
Let me restate, I will never sleep in a tent again unless I am forced to.
Hammock comfort vs tent comfort = Incredible vs sucks.

Just my humble opinion

TV

Martin,

That's a lot of questions.  Basically you need some kind of insulation
under you for sleeping in temperatures below about 70 degrees and most
sleeping bags compress enough underneath you so that they don't provide
very much insulation under you.  Hammocks tend to wrap around you sides
so pads do need to a little wider in hammocks.  Speer Hammock's new SPE
add has some photos that show this on this link:
http://www.speerhammocks.com/Products/SPE.htm .

There are other ways to get insulation on the bottom side of the
hammock using various things, a few are commerial available and a few
others are do it yourself projects.  There are too many for a brief
description so I won't try on this post.  The good news is there are
reliable ways to do it.

Youngblood

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "bedeutung" <bedeutung@y...>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I get the impression that sleeping pads are an important feature with
> hammock camping, even more so than for ground camping, presumably
> because the "floor" somewhat curves up around the sleeper. So what
> kind of sleeping pad would be useful? Does it need to be any thicker
> than I might use for ground camping? Or does it just need to be wider
> to curl up around the sides? Does the standard rectangular shape work
> okay, or does a different shape work better? And are there any kinds
> to avoid - for instance do thermarests work okay?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Martin

I use a 3/4 inch convoluted closed cell foam pad in a double bottomed
hammock.  It is great for that.  I don't get cold from the bottom at
all.  Every now and then my knees get in a spot where their insulation
is compressed and they get cool, but it's no biggie to reposition
slightly.  My pad curves to fit the hammock just fine.  A little more
width might be nice sometimes, but then the pad would be more of a pain
to carry.

Bill in Houston

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "bedeutung" <bedeutung@y...>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I get the impression that sleeping pads are an important feature with
> hammock camping, even more so than for ground camping, presumably
> because the "floor" somewhat curves up around the sleeper. So what
> kind of sleeping pad would be useful? Does it need to be any thicker
> than I might use for ground camping? Or does it just need to be wider
> to curl up around the sides? Does the standard rectangular shape work
> okay, or does a different shape work better? And are there any kinds
> to avoid - for instance do thermarests work okay?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Martin

Ugh.  Get off the ground and out of the rain and bugs, and enjoy life.

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "bedeutung" <bedeutung@y...>
wrote:
> <snip>I've been using a tarp system recently utilising a 5x8 ft
> sil-nylon poncho (with a little bug netting over the torso and carry a
> light-weight (250g) bivy for rougher weather and splash-back or
> wind-driven rain - pretty much a necessity with a small tarp like
> mine). My calculations suggest <snip>

MG-

I'd have to measure to check if a 5' x 8' tarp would cover a Hennessy Asym on
the diagonal.  It is definitely too short on the long axis.  The hamock body
is 9,' IIRC.

While some users are moving to larger tarps, I have NEVER had a problem with
rain blowing into my Hennessy Asym, or even the UL Backpacker model before it.
  The Asym is designed with a larger by proportion fly due to customer
requests for this.

Cheers!

Rosaleen


   From: "bedeutung" <bedeutung@...>
Subject: Newbie here - advice?

Hi all,

I'm new to this group which I joined to figure out whether to try
hammocking. I've been using a tarp system recently utilising a 5x8 ft
sil-nylon poncho (with a little bug netting over the torso and carry a
light-weight (250g) bivy for rougher weather and splash-back or
wind-driven rain - pretty much a necessity with a small tarp like
mine). My calculations suggest that so long as I can use my poncho
(which I would probably be taking in any case) as a canopy and keep my
bivy (perhaps out of necessity with the poncho as canopy - see
question below) I'd be carrying about the same amount of weight -
based on the Hennesy ultralight backpacker asym which is what I am
initially looking at getting - about 1025 grams.

So here's my first question: can a 5x8 ft rectanglular tarp be used
effectively as a canopy with a Hennessy, or is it too small? (A piece
of background I'm 5ft 7in and 160 pounds and camp mostly in Western
Canada where it can get pretty wet).

Second question: if the 5x8 ft canopy is not sufficient (which is my
guess), then using the supplied canopy with the Hennessy ultralight
backpacker am I likely to continue to need to carry a bivy for
wind-driven rain or can the canopy be effectively arranged so as to
eliminate that as a realistic concern?

I'm sure I'll have other questions in due course.

Cheers,

MG


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Spammer whacked.

Shane

Not hard enough!!

Ralph

On 5/5/05, Shane Steinkamp <shane@...> wrote:
> Spammer whacked.
>
> Shane
>
>
>

Good work, Shane..Ed



Moderator, Hammock Camping List
Author, Hammock Camping, The Complete Guide

Editor, Hammock Camping News

Owner, Speer Hammocks Inc



   _____

From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Shane Steinkamp
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 1:46 PM
To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: Current News



Spammer whacked.

Shane





   _____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping/

* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Not hard enough!!

I'm only one man, Marge.  ;)

Shane

> Good work, Shane..Ed

Well at least *somebody* appreciates me around here...  ;)

Shane

Does anyone have decent experience with the Evolution Valley/Puite Pass area
to help?

Members of my group are concerned about the trees available for hammock
camping. Is this a valid concern or are they idiots?


Thanks again
TV

Sorry about that last one. I forgot to change the subject line

TV

Question about closed cell foam sleeping pads --

I've been reading all over the internet to learn about keeping warm in my new
HH and have decided to definitely plan on carrying a pad, since I backpack in
the Sierras at higher elevation and sleep cold anyway.

The question is, I've seen debate on this...is a flat pad going to be warmer
or an egg-crate dimpled type?

I read somewhere an argument against the dimpled type because the air pockets
aren't against the ground when hammocking, but Ed's book says the opposite.
Also something like a Z-rest only comes in one width, doesn't it? Isn't it
easier to find more width in the solid blue pads?

Anyone tried both and have experience to share?

Thanks,
Becki


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Anyone tried both and have experience to share?

I have, and I can't determine any real difference.  The most important thing
is what the pad is made of and its stiffness.

In a hammock, I use a blue pad from Wal-Mart that is very soft.  The stiffer
pads crease, and this causes me grief.  The soft pad I use has a slight egg
crate, but it just doesn't make any difference.

I despise the Z rest, but others like them...

Shane

What really helps is when the material is somewhat resistant to
slipping.  The more "rubber" feel the better.

I have not been able to tell much difference between eggshell and flat
pads.  But the only eggshell I have used is the wallmart pad with  a
rubbery texture.  The hammock tends to curl the pad a lot.  I think a
zrest might be harder to fold after using it in a hammock than on the
ground or in a shelter.

The easiest way to find width is to overlap two half pads.  It is the
only way I was ever able to keep my shoulder and my knee warm when
sleeping on my side.

http://www.imrisk.com/overlappad/overlap.htm

Rick

LivNLrn3R@... wrote:

> Question about closed cell foam sleeping pads --
>
> I've been reading all over the internet to learn about keeping warm in
> my new
> HH and have decided to definitely plan on carrying a pad, since I
> backpack in
> the Sierras at higher elevation and sleep cold anyway.
>
> The question is, I've seen debate on this...is a flat pad going to be
> warmer
> or an egg-crate dimpled type?
>
> I read somewhere an argument against the dimpled type because the air
> pockets
> aren't against the ground when hammocking, but Ed's book says the
> opposite.
> Also something like a Z-rest only comes in one width, doesn't it?
> Isn't it
> easier to find more width in the solid blue pads?
>
> Anyone tried both and have experience to share?
>
> Thanks,
> Becki
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Yahoo! Groups Links*
>
>     * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>       http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hammockcamping/
>
>     * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>       hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>       <mailto:hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
>     * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]