--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Rick <ra1@i...> wrote:
> The Smoky Mountains have some strange restrictions that are not
present
> anywhere else on the trail.  If not in the middle of a thru-hike,
each
> camping spot must be reserved ahead and the registration carried
with
> the hiker.  It is free, but still a hassle.  In addition, normally
the
> hiker is not allowed to camp outside the shelter if the camping
spot is
> a shelter.  Along the AT, there are almost no stopping spots that
are
> not shelters.
>
> So, long story, is that I had to stay at and in the shelter the
first
> three nights.
>
> As for the boots...  The right one gave me no problem.  I will have
to
> let my left heel heal up before I know if the left one can be used
by me.
>
> Risk

My sympathies on both the boots and the shelters.  I did a two day
loop trip from Elkmont (Smokies) to Silers Bald Shelter and back to
test some new boots.  Although they didn't beat the bottoms of my
feet into junk like the last pair, they went to town on my toes.  (I
might be able to correct the problem.)

As for the shelters: Ye gods I'm not doing that again.  I'll be
camping in the trees somewhere nearby where I can have access to the
spring, privy and cable hang, but not have to suffer the miseries of
the ground-dwellers.  Hammock camping has spoilt me with comfort.

(AT Note:  There's a great hammocking spot just a few feet west of
the Double Springs Gap shelter, located in small grove of hemlocks.
The flat space adjacent to the trail probably attracts tent campers,
but if you go downhill to the south out of sight there are more
hemlocks on the slope.)

Doug Frost

Brian, Your tarp looks great. What size is it? Tellus about the
pole, source weight etc.

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Rick <ra1@i...> wrote:
> rambler4466 wrote:
>
> >--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Mirage" <mirage@p...>
wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I've received several requests for higher resolution versions of
> >>
> >>
> >my
> >
> >
> >>tarp diagrams in the Photo section of this group.
> >>
> >>To help out, I have just uploaded my Visio source for these three
> >>tarps to the Files section of the site.  These are "Copyleft"
> >>protected, but otherwise free for personal use.
> >>
> >>Enjoy,
> >>
> >>Shane "Mirage"...
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Thanks. Shane.  8x10 tarps are great, but they are heavy.  What
are
> >smaller dimension tarps suitable for the Speer or Zhammocks?  IMO
> >The A-sym tarp for Hennessy are too small at the ends for the
above
> >mentioned models.  "Jacks" has an 8x8 hung on the diagonal for the
> >HH.  Any others, smaller?   http://218.83.168.206
> >
> >
> >
> 8x8 is 64 sq ft.  I have used a 5x10 = 50 sq ft tarp with a speer
type
> hammock for two years now.  Works great.
>
> Risk

If you are going to compare weights of diagonal tarps, rectangular
tarps or hex tarps, I think you want to include the weight of stakes
and guylines.  Sometimes the diagonal tarps use noticably less and
the weight differential might supprise you.  For instance, if you use
about 10 feet of 1/16" diameter pulse line for guyline with a half
ounce stake, you are probably at around 0.68 ounce for each stake
used.  A diagonal tarp might use as few as two stakes where the other
tarp configurations might use between 4 and 8 stakes.  A difference
of six of these half ounce stakes with 10 feet of cord would shift
the weight differential by 4 ounces.

Youngblood

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "jack_tier" <jacktier@c...>
wrote:
> Brian, Your tarp looks great. What size is it? Tellus about the
> pole, source weight etc.

The tarp is made by Cooke Custom Sewing -
http://www.cookecustomsewing.com/tundratarps.htm - it is called a
10x10 but that must be the size before hemming.  It measures 9.5' x
9.5'.  I have used this tarp for over three years and the only wear
I've noticed is a little UV fading.  I attached two "pole pockets"
made out of nylon webbing to two opposite corners.  I almost hate to
admit this and I hope Henry Shires is not reading this list but I
used the poles from my Cloudburst Tarptent that I use during the
winter.  I removed the shockcord because I needed more length than
the tarptents' longest pole.  This also lets me use them to set up a
lightweight tripod for my camera.  The poles still work in my
Cloudburst, I just feed then in the sleeves one at a time.
The poles can also be found online, Quest Outfitters -
http://www.questoutfitters.com/tent_poles.htm - is one site.
My poles weigh in right at 6 oz. and there are 9 full length and a
shortened one (for a total of ten in case that didn't make sense.)
The tarp weighs 18 oz. and I know that's a little on the heavy side
for a tarp but this one is reenforced and is designed to be used on
canoeing trips. To use it I stake the pole ends of the tarp on
pieces of shockcord and then rotate the pole toward the head of the
hammock, tuck the foot end of the tarp under the pole, and run a
line from the foot end of the tarp through the fly hook on the
hammock rope and then attach it to the ridgeline in the hammock.
That way I can enjoy the stars and if it starts to rain I can deploy
the tarp without leaving the hammock. This provides superb weather
protection
while the poles keep the tarp elevated and allow great ventilation.

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick [mailto:ra1@...]
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 3:39 PM
To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Catenary tarp diagrams...

rambler4466 wrote:

>--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Mirage" <mirage@p...> wrote:
> 
>
>>I've received several requests for higher resolution versions of
>>   
>>
>my
> 
>
>>tarp diagrams in the Photo section of this group.
>>
>>To help out, I have just uploaded my Visio source for these three
>>tarps to the Files section of the site.  These are "Copyleft"
>>protected, but otherwise free for personal use.
>>
>>Enjoy,
>>
>>Shane "Mirage"...
>>   
>>
>
>Thanks. Shane.  8x10 tarps are great, but they are heavy.  What are
>smaller dimension tarps suitable for the Speer or Zhammocks?  IMO
>The A-sym tarp for Hennessy are too small at the ends for the above
>mentioned models.  "Jacks" has an 8x8 hung on the diagonal for the
>HH.  Any others, smaller?   http://218.83.168.206
>
> 
>
8x8 is 64 sq ft.  I have used a 5x10 = 50 sq ft tarp with a speer type
hammock for two years now.  Works great.

Risk

-----Original Message-----
From: BRIAN [mailto:opnheartscrub@...]
Sent: Friday, August 27, 2004 8:28 PM
To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: BUG PROTECTION

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "BRIAN" <opnheartscrub@t...>
wrote:
> --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Garlington"
> <rgarling@y...> wrote:
> > One thing you could do that would be cheap & light is to get a
> > length of mosquito netting and cut it to fit the HH bottom (with
a
> > little sag.)  your attachment points could be the 4 corners of
the
> > hammock.  Just cut a slit to match the entry.
>
  If it works I will post some pics in the
> next few days.
> Thanks again for all the ideas.

I've finally uploaded some pics in the folder "Brian from Tampa (HH
mods)".  I still need to label them and provide an explanation for
each one.  I'll work on that tomorrow.  The netting seems to work
well as does the fly.  Thanks for the ideas.

Brian

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
<jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
> Hennessy is also now offering their SuperShelter now. It has a
silnylon
> bottom piece that is slightly larger and the same shape as the
hammock. It
> not only cuts the wind, it stops mosquitoes too.
> Jerry


Thanks but the windstopping ability is what I'm trying to get away
from. With the bottom netting, the slightest breeze is very cooling.
On the other hand, this is certainly something I will look at during
the cooler months when the mosquitos are still out and about.

Brian

Okay, that is about what I had figured.  Interesting.  Thanks.

Bill in Houston

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Rick <ra1@i...> wrote:
> >
> The Smoky Mountains have some strange restrictions that are not
present
> anywhere else on the trail.  If not in the middle of a thru-hike,
each
> camping spot must be reserved ahead and the registration carried
with
> the hiker.  It is free, but still a hassle.  In addition, normally
the
> hiker is not allowed to camp outside the shelter if the camping
spot is
> a shelter.  Along the AT, there are almost no stopping spots that
are
> not shelters.
>
> So, long story, is that I had to stay at and in the shelter the
first
> three nights.
>
> As for the boots...  The right one gave me no problem.  I will have
to
> let my left heel heal up before I know if the left one can be used
by me.
>
> Risk

I notice that Eagle's Nest has finally rolled out a new rainfly for
their hammocks. The pictures look . . . interesting. Has anyone seen
one of these in use? It looks like a straight ridgelined asymmetrical
decagon with an extreme catenary cut around the perimeter and 8(?)
tie outs. It looks very taut but doesn't look especially dry.

http://www.eaglesnestoutfit.com/foxfacerainfly.htm

Thoughts?

I am very confused.  24 oz. is way more than a silnylon tarp that size
should weigh.

Dick Matthews




seuss910 wrote:

>I notice that Eagle's Nest has finally rolled out a new rainfly for
>their hammocks. The pictures look . . . interesting. Has anyone seen
>one of these in use? It looks like a straight ridgelined asymmetrical
>decagon with an extreme catenary cut around the perimeter and 8(?)
>tie outs. It looks very taut but doesn't look especially dry.
>
>http://www.eaglesnestoutfit.com/foxfacerainfly.htm
>
>Thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: BRIAN [mailto:opnheartscrub@...]
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 5:17 AM
To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: BUG PROTECTION

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
<jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
> Hennessy is also now offering their SuperShelter now. It has a
silnylon
> bottom piece that is slightly larger and the same shape as the
hammock. It
> not only cuts the wind, it stops mosquitoes too.
> Jerry


Thanks but the windstopping ability is what I'm trying to get away
from. With the bottom netting, the slightest breeze is very cooling.
On the other hand, this is certainly something I will look at during
the cooler months when the mosquitos are still out and about.

Brian

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
<jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
> Good point. I tend to forget that as I spend most of my time in the
> mountains and heat at night isn't all that much of a
problem... ;o) Have you
> tried soaking your hammock in Permethrin? Although I've not tried
it for my
> hammock, I've used it for a couple of years on my clothes with
very good
> results. You can get it much cheaper at Home Depot. Look for yard
> insecticides. Cutter and Ortho both make it. One of the product
names is
> Yard Guard.
> Jerry

I tried permethrin on the hammock fabric but found that I still get
bit.  Maybe the little buggers get in a couple of stabs before they
die. I have sprayed my nets to stop so many of them from buzzing
me.  I'm going to check out the Yard Guard.  Do you know the
strength? It would be great to find a less expensive source in ready
to spray form.

Brian

Brian,

I believe it is 2.5 percent and costs about 9 bucks for a big bottle.

Rick

Quoting BRIAN <opnheartscrub@...>:

> --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
> <jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
> > Good point. I tend to forget that as I spend most of my time in the
> > mountains and heat at night isn't all that much of a
> problem... ;o) Have you
> > tried soaking your hammock in Permethrin? Although I've not tried
> it for my
> > hammock, I've used it for a couple of years on my clothes with
> very good
> > results. You can get it much cheaper at Home Depot. Look for yard
> > insecticides. Cutter and Ortho both make it. One of the product
> names is
> > Yard Guard.
> > Jerry
>
> I tried permethrin on the hammock fabric but found that I still get
> bit.  Maybe the little buggers get in a couple of stabs before they
> die. I have sprayed my nets to stop so many of them from buzzing
> me.  I'm going to check out the Yard Guard.  Do you know the
> strength? It would be great to find a less expensive source in ready
> to spray form.
>
> Brian
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: BRIAN [mailto:opnheartscrub@...]
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 12:28 PM
To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: BUG PROTECTION

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
<jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
> Good point. I tend to forget that as I spend most of my time in the
> mountains and heat at night isn't all that much of a
problem... ;o) Have you
> tried soaking your hammock in Permethrin? Although I've not tried
it for my
> hammock, I've used it for a couple of years on my clothes with
very good
> results. You can get it much cheaper at Home Depot. Look for yard
> insecticides. Cutter and Ortho both make it. One of the product
names is
> Yard Guard.
> Jerry

I tried permethrin on the hammock fabric but found that I still get
bit.  Maybe the little buggers get in a couple of stabs before they
die. I have sprayed my nets to stop so many of them from buzzing
me.  I'm going to check out the Yard Guard.  Do you know the
strength? It would be great to find a less expensive source in ready
to spray form.

Brian

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
<jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
> It is a liquid at 2.5%. While it was designed to be connected to a
garden
> hose to spray it, I just soak my clothes directly.
> Interesting that the bugs bit right through the permethrin. What
> concentration did you use?
> Jerry


Jerry and Rick
It appears mine is only 0.5%. It is in a 6 oz. spray can and called
Repel Permanone.  Is it supposed to kill upon contact?

Brian

-----Original Message-----
From: BRIAN [mailto:opnheartscrub@...]
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 5:29 PM
To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Hammock Camping] Re: BUG PROTECTION

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry Goller"
<jerrygoller@b...> wrote:
> It is a liquid at 2.5%. While it was designed to be connected to a
garden
> hose to spray it, I just soak my clothes directly.
> Interesting that the bugs bit right through the permethrin. What
> concentration did you use?
> Jerry


Jerry and Rick
It appears mine is only 0.5%. It is in a 6 oz. spray can and called
Repel Permanone.  Is it supposed to kill upon contact?

Brian

Definately an interesting look to the foxfacerainfly
seuss 910. I agree that in a driving rain the fly
would probably become next to useless.  24 oz's is a
bit heavy. My 8'x10' Equinox silnylon tarp only weighs
14 oz's. I be willing to bet it gives better foul
weather coverage to my ultra-lite asym H&H also!
Cordially,
CI
--- seuss910 <wrv77@...> wrote:

> I notice that Eagle's Nest has finally rolled out a
> new rainfly for
> their hammocks. The pictures look . . . interesting.
> Has anyone seen
> one of these in use? It looks like a straight
> ridgelined asymmetrical
> decagon with an extreme catenary cut around the
> perimeter and 8(?)
> tie outs. It looks very taut but doesn't look
> especially dry.
>
> http://www.eaglesnestoutfit.com/foxfacerainfly.htm
>
> Thoughts?
>
>


=====
Train virtual, live Real!!!
('Real' refers to the concepts postulated by Karl Pribram's Holographic
Paradigmn and David Bohm's theory of Non-locality)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

I don't understand the 24 oz for the 9'x9.5' dimensions for the
Eagle's Nest rain tarp.  A rectangular tarp would be 9.5 sq yds and
the shape it uses means it would be much less than that, maybe 65% of
the 9.5 sq yds.  So I suspect either the 24 oz is not correct or
either they are not using 1.1oz silnylon that weights around 1.3 oz
per sq yd.  My guess is that if it were the 1.3 oz stuff, that it
would weigh in the 8 oz range.

About the shape, it kind of looks like a diamond shaped tarp that the
original Hennessy's used with added material to provide more coverage
for the foot and head ends of the hammock.  So in that sense it is
kind of clever.  You get better coverage and it is probably pitches
more taut at the price of a little more material, but it takes 6
stakes versus 2.

As far as coverage goes, it is somewhere between the original
Hennessy diamond tarp and Brian's McCat tarp.  It uses six stakes,
the Hennessy uses two and Brian's uses four.

For now, I still use and prefer the comfort of the larger area that
my rectangular shaped tarp gives me, but I still review the tradeoffs
of smaller, lighter weight tarps from time to time.  Then, I remember
how much nicer it is when it is raining, expecially during the night
when I don't have to worry near as much about whether I am going to
get wet or not in a heavy wind driven rain.

Youngblood


--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Carl Iobst <iobstce@y...>
wrote:
> Definately an interesting look to the foxfacerainfly
> seuss 910. I agree that in a driving rain the fly
> would probably become next to useless.  24 oz's is a
> bit heavy. My 8'x10' Equinox silnylon tarp only weighs
> 14 oz's. I be willing to bet it gives better foul
> weather coverage to my ultra-lite asym H&H also!
> Cordially,
> CI
> --- seuss910 <wrv77@y...> wrote:
>
> > I notice that Eagle's Nest has finally rolled out a
> > new rainfly for
> > their hammocks. The pictures look . . . interesting.
> > Has anyone seen
> > one of these in use? It looks like a straight
> > ridgelined asymmetrical
> > decagon with an extreme catenary cut around the
> > perimeter and 8(?)
> > tie outs. It looks very taut but doesn't look
> > especially dry.
> >
> > http://www.eaglesnestoutfit.com/foxfacerainfly.htm
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
> Train virtual, live Real!!!
> ('Real' refers to the concepts postulated by Karl Pribram's
Holographic Paradigmn and David Bohm's theory of Non-locality)
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

Hi everybody! I guess I can't put DEET on just anything. Anyone used
it successfully on the ultralight? thanks! Dan

I've had another look or 3 (I finally found if you click on
the "product demonstration" text a plan view of the tarp pops up) and
see that it's not a decagon at all; it's a kind of an eight pointed
rectangle if that makes any sense at all. An interesting innovation
is that it appears to call for only 2 stakes. the four corner tie
outs seem intended to be wrapped around the tree a few feet below the
hammock tie. That seems like it might give an interesting shape with
tucked in corners.

I'm also wondering if the 24 oz. figure includes hardware. I saw an
Eagles Nest hammock a few months ago at an outdoor show and they
seemed fond of using heavy carabiners for hanging - sacrificing
weight for ease of use. If I had to guess I'd venture that the fly
includes some heavy stainless d rings or more biners at the peaks.

I don't think I'll be purchasing their fly, but if I can infringe on
their patent a little bit . . .

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@y...>
wrote:
> I don't understand the 24 oz for the 9'x9.5' dimensions for the
> Eagle's Nest rain tarp.  A rectangular tarp would be 9.5 sq yds and
> the shape it uses means it would be much less than that, maybe 65%
of
> the 9.5 sq yds.  So I suspect either the 24 oz is not correct or
> either they are not using 1.1oz silnylon that weights around 1.3 oz
> per sq yd.  My guess is that if it were the 1.3 oz stuff, that it
> would weigh in the 8 oz range.
>
> About the shape, it kind of looks like a diamond shaped tarp that
the
> original Hennessy's used with added material to provide more
coverage
> for the foot and head ends of the hammock.  So in that sense it is
> kind of clever.  You get better coverage and it is probably pitches
> more taut at the price of a little more material, but it takes 6
> stakes versus 2.
>
> As far as coverage goes, it is somewhere between the original
> Hennessy diamond tarp and Brian's McCat tarp.  It uses six stakes,
> the Hennessy uses two and Brian's uses four.
>
> For now, I still use and prefer the comfort of the larger area that
> my rectangular shaped tarp gives me, but I still review the
tradeoffs
> of smaller, lighter weight tarps from time to time.  Then, I
remember
> how much nicer it is when it is raining, expecially during the
night
> when I don't have to worry near as much about whether I am going to
> get wet or not in a heavy wind driven rain.
>
> Youngblood
>

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "gr8fuldan2" <popeslope@h...>
wrote:
> Hi everybody! I guess I can't put DEET on just anything. Anyone used
> it successfully on the ultralight? thanks! Dan

DEET wouldn't be effective on the body of the hammock (it would be on
YOUR body, however). Permethrin is what you want to put on the
hammock and netting. I used permethrin spray on my Speer hammock in
Panama, and it worked great!

I found this on http://www.travmed.com/trip_prep/insect_permethrin.htm

What is the difference between DEET and permethrin? Can I use them
interchangeably?
   DEET and permethrin complement one another, but they are not
interchangeable. DEET works to repel biting insects, by blocking the
receptors on an insect's antennae which help it home in on its host.
Permethrin is not an insect repellent. It works as a contact
insecticide, stunning or killing insects that come in contact with
it.

   Can I use DEET and permethrin together, or is the combination
unnecessary?
   When maximum protection against insect bites is needed or desired,
the ideal solution is to use a combination of DEET on exposed skin,
and wear permethrin-treated clothing. An extended-duration DEET
insect repellent (Ultrathon®) and permethrin-treated clothing is
the
standard personal protection system used by the U.S. military
deployed in areas of the world where insect-borne disease is a real
threat. One field study showed that the use of both of these products
provided 99.9% protection against mosquito bites, in an environment
where unprotected persons received an average of 1,188 bites per
hour!


Patrick

I strongly advise against applying DEET to the nylon fabric.  I even advise
against getting it on the fabric by accident from your skin.  It seems to be a
solvent for nylon and will at least weaken the fabric.  It may cause the fabric
to fail.

There are too many other ways to avoid being bitten by bugs.

Risk

Quoting gr8fuldan2 <popeslope@...>:

> Hi everybody! I guess I can't put DEET on just anything. Anyone used
> it successfully on the ultralight? thanks! Dan
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

> I strongly advise against applying DEET to the nylon fabric.  I even
> advise against getting it on the fabric by accident from your skin.  It
> seems to be a solvent for nylon and will at least weaken the fabric.  It
> may cause the fabric to fail.

Have you experienced failures?  DEET will dissolve plastic instantly, but is
non-reactive with nylon.  I have sprayed DEET all over nylon webbing and
other nylon things.  I frequently lay (both inside and outside) of my HH
after freshly spraying DEET on myself.  I have never had any failure.

It isn't effective on the hammock - permethrin should be used - but I don't
think it will hurt a nylon hammock.

Shane

What do you suggest, stay home.  I would think that an
Outdoor Gear Maker that uses a material that will not
hold up to Bug-Dope needs to rethink their material
choice.  Use the DEET and if you have a material
problem with your HH take it back or send it back it
is not worth having.  Bill in Texas

-- ra1@... wrote:

> I strongly advise against applying DEET to the nylon
> fabric.  I even advise
> against getting it on the fabric by accident from
> your skin.  It seems to be a
> solvent for nylon and will at least weaken the
> fabric.  It may cause the fabric
> to fail.
>
> There are too many other ways to avoid being bitten
> by bugs.
>
> Risk
>
> Quoting gr8fuldan2 <popeslope@...>:
>
> > Hi everybody! I guess I can't put DEET on just
> anything. Anyone used
> > it successfully on the ultralight? thanks! Dan
>



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

They should hire web page designers that can provide useful information
on the website and forego the cute verbiage. "Dance freely around tarp".
The third diagram (viewing from above) shows that there are 6 points that
get staked out "firmly to the ground", so they might mean "trip
frequently around tarp". Doesn't look like they can be attached to the
same trees as the hammock.

It also says that stakes are not included, so the 24oz is still a
mystery.

On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 15:43:31 -0000 "seuss910" <wrv77@...> writes:
> I've had another look or 3 (I finally found if you click on
> the "product demonstration" text a plan view of the tarp pops up)
> and
> see that it's not a decagon at all; it's a kind of an eight pointed
>
> rectangle if that makes any sense at all. An interesting innovation
>
> is that it appears to call for only 2 stakes. the four corner tie
> outs seem intended to be wrapped around the tree a few feet below
> the
> hammock tie. That seems like it might give an interesting shape with
>
> tucked in corners.
>
> I'm also wondering if the 24 oz. figure includes hardware. I saw an
>
> Eagles Nest hammock a few months ago at an outdoor show and they
> seemed fond of using heavy carabiners for hanging - sacrificing
> weight for ease of use. If I had to guess I'd venture that the fly
> includes some heavy stainless d rings or more biners at the peaks.
>
> I don't think I'll be purchasing their fly, but if I can infringe on
>
> their patent a little bit . . .
>
> --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Womble" <dpwomble@y...>
>
> wrote:
> > I don't understand the 24 oz for the 9'x9.5' dimensions for the
> > Eagle's Nest rain tarp.  A rectangular tarp would be 9.5 sq yds
> and
> > the shape it uses means it would be much less than that, maybe 65%
>
> of
> > the 9.5 sq yds.  So I suspect either the 24 oz is not correct or
> > either they are not using 1.1oz silnylon that weights around 1.3
> oz
> > per sq yd.  My guess is that if it were the 1.3 oz stuff, that it
>
> > would weigh in the 8 oz range.
> >
> > About the shape, it kind of looks like a diamond shaped tarp that
>
> the
> > original Hennessy's used with added material to provide more
> coverage
> > for the foot and head ends of the hammock.  So in that sense it is
>
> > kind of clever.  You get better coverage and it is probably
> pitches
> > more taut at the price of a little more material, but it takes 6
> > stakes versus 2.
> >
> > As far as coverage goes, it is somewhere between the original
> > Hennessy diamond tarp and Brian's McCat tarp.  It uses six stakes,
>
> > the Hennessy uses two and Brian's uses four.
> >
> > For now, I still use and prefer the comfort of the larger area
> that
> > my rectangular shaped tarp gives me, but I still review the
> tradeoffs
> > of smaller, lighter weight tarps from time to time.  Then, I
> remember
> > how much nicer it is when it is raining, expecially during the
> night
> > when I don't have to worry near as much about whether I am going
> to
> > get wet or not in a heavy wind driven rain.
> >
> > Youngblood
> >
>
>
>
>
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> Have you experienced failures?  DEET will dissolve plastic
instantly, but is
> non-reactive with nylon.  I have sprayed DEET all over nylon
webbing and
> other nylon things.  I frequently lay (both inside and outside) of
my HH
> after freshly spraying DEET on myself.  I have never had any
failure.
>
> It isn't effective on the hammock - permethrin should be used - but
I don't
> think it will hurt a nylon hammock.
>
> Shane

Shane, thanks for pointing that out.  I had it figured the same way
Rick did and wouldn't let anyone who had recently applied DEET near
my hammocks.  I do realize that you did a lot of work with bug
repellents a couple of years back when you did the BGT test on Travel
Medicines(?) products.  I often refer folks that have questions to
your reports (as well as the others).

Youngblood

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, jonas4321@j... wrote:
> ...
> The third diagram (viewing from above) shows that there are 6
points that
> get staked out "firmly to the ground", so they might mean "trip
> frequently around tarp...

If you look at the index for "Hammock Camping 101", the first lesson
for hammock camping is how to attach to trees so that you & the
hammock don't end up on the ground when you get in.  The SECOND
lesson is how to avoid clothes-lining yourself on the hammock support
ropes while at the same time not triping on the tarp guylines. The
third lesson is how to get in/out of the hammock without landing on
your arse.  hahaha

Youngblood

Shane certainly has much more experience than I have.  I almost never
use DEET, and he needs to down in LA!

Given the advice I found with a simple search of the net, I think that
using DEET on skin and then crawling into a nylon hammock is probably
OK for the nylon.  I could not find evidence about polyester and DEET.
  The thread I use when building hammocks is 100 percent polyester.  I
am not sure what the HH builders use.

I had been taught this trail legend many times... but when I went out
just now to investigate, Shane is completely correct according to the
majority of sources I found about nylon:

Rick

*****************

DEET can damage some plastics and synthetic fabrics, such as nylon and
acetate, so be careful not to damage clothing or camping equipment.
http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/a/aa042703a.htm

DEET can damage plastics, synthetic fabrics, leather, and painted or
varnished materials, so keep it away from eyeglasses, watch crystals,
walls and furniture. DEET doesn't harm nylon or natural fibers, such
as cotton or wool.
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/library/FL/00083.html

Never put DEET based repellants on plastics, acetate, spandex or
nylon, as the DEET can damage these materials.  Spraying your pack and
jacket or rain gear, is not a good idea.
http://www.outdoorplaces.com/Features/Hiking/repel/repel.htm

Do not apply DEET formulations on or near plastics, acetate,rayon,
Spandex, synthetic fabrics (other than nylon), furniture finishes,
leather, watch crystals, and painted or varnished surfaces. Plastic
glass frames and goggles should be protected from DEET applications.
Car finishes and interiors also may be damaged by DEET. It will not
damage nylon, cotton, or wool fabrics.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_IG122

(Diethyltoluamide will not damage clothing materials, such as cotton,
wool, or nylon. However, it may damage acetate, rayon, spandex, or
some other synthetic materials.
http://www.drugs.com/cons/DEET.html

******************

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Shane" <shane@t...> wrote:
> > I strongly advise against applying DEET to the nylon fabric.  I even
> > advise against getting it on the fabric by accident from your
skin.  It
> > seems to be a solvent for nylon and will at least weaken the
fabric.  It
> > may cause the fabric to fail.
>
> Have you experienced failures?  DEET will dissolve plastic
instantly, but is
> non-reactive with nylon.  I have sprayed DEET all over nylon webbing and
> other nylon things.  I frequently lay (both inside and outside) of my HH
> after freshly spraying DEET on myself.  I have never had any failure.
>
> It isn't effective on the hammock - permethrin should be used - but
I don't
> think it will hurt a nylon hammock.
>
> Shane

those are the three best things about taking a newbie hammocking   :)
(evil grin)


----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Womble <dpwomble@...>
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:08:11 -0000
Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Fox Face Tarp?
To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com

  --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, jonas4321@j... wrote:
  > ...
  > The third diagram (viewing from above) shows that there are 6
  points that
  > get staked out "firmly to the ground", so they might mean "trip
  > frequently around tarp...

  If you look at the index for "Hammock Camping 101", the first lesson
  for hammock camping is how to attach to trees so that you & the
  hammock don't end up on the ground when you get in.  The SECOND
  lesson is how to avoid clothes-lining yourself on the hammock support
  ropes while at the same time not triping on the tarp guylines. The
  third lesson is how to get in/out of the hammock without landing on
  your arse.  hahaha

  Youngblood





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--
Tom Peltier

Pura Vida

I've been doing a few experiements with different knots to tie the
hanging lines to the hammock fabric. I've been using weak fabric to
to see which knots rip the fabric more.

An interesting finding was that whenever the hammock failed - it was
always just below the knot.  What have other people's experiences
been?  I'm wondering if that is the weak spot, maybe we could
reinforce it with a double layer (like the stress points on a tarp)
and then use a lighter fabric (like 1.1).

What do you folks with more experience than me (that means almost
all of you) think?