----- Original Message -----

From: David Chinell

To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 10:13 AM

Subject: RE: Hammock Camping My rig - long

Jason:

I have a picture, but don't know how to post it. If anyone
can tell me, I'd be glad to try.

The netting usually makes it all the way to the ground.
Being 12 feet long it hangs 6 feet on either side of the
ridgeline. BUT you don't have to worry about getting bit on
the back. The hammock fabric is tightly enough woven that
they can't get through it.

So the additional length is just to make the netting drape
right. It helps keep it pressed against the side of the
hammock.

I've often thought a shorter piece would be better -- keep
it off the ground and all. I don't know what the perfect
length would be, but I've tried a 9 x 9 foot square, and it
seems a little too short.

I've also tried sewing various parts closed, adding edging,
etc. but none of it seems worth the trouble.

I just posted the weights in reply to another query...

Bear



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Ha!  I almost forgot about him!  Wow, I wonder if he uses a hammock,
or are we safe here?


I agree with Ed on leaving the pack on the ground.  Twice out west, I
set my pack down for a short time, and mice chewed their way into
it.  Got into my gorp, the little @#$%%^%$@!!!!

Ed, only once I found a nosy squirrel on the hanging ropes.  I wasn't
in the hammock at the time.  I'm having trouble with the pie
tins....don't want to feel like a bird feeder out there!



--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "starnescr <starnescr@y...>"
<starnescr@y...> wrote:
> TC
>
> I'm guessing your TeamCourage, right?  Just read your question and
> Eds answer. I usually hang my shoes, headlamp and a waterbottle
from
> the ridge line. I use a rope to hold my water bottle hanging over
my
> belly. The headlamp straight over my face and the shoes toward my
> feet.  That way I don't have to smell them.  I usually put my pack
> on the ground and use a pack cover over it. This stays either under
> the hammock or at one of the trees Im using.  If I ever go into
> porcupine country I'll probably hang my pack like Ed suggest.  Ed
do
> you use a pie plate or any thing to keep critters from climbing
down
> the hang rope?
>
> Coy Boy
>
> --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "tcoug7 <tcoug7@a...>"
> <tcoug7@a...> wrote:
> > Interested in how others stow gear (non bearbaggable (how's that
> > word!) while sleeping.  Presently, I keep it under me, on the
> ground
> > covered w/ rain fly.  Any thoughts?
> >
> > Aslo how about your boots/trail shoes?  Where do you put them
when
> in
> > the hammock?  I kind of step out of them as I pull my legs up ( I
> > have a Hennessey) then reach down and cover them.  I'm wondering
> if I
> > may find a visitor one morning attracted to the salt scent.

Sorry Marge!  Let's not forget spiders from the trees too!!

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Marge Prothman" <marge@p...>
wrote:
> Now you guys did it to me.   I thought when I got the hammock I
would be
> free of snakes and critters and what do I read on my first day
> here....snakes and critters.
>
> Cheers,   Marge.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: starnescr <starnescr@y...> [mailto:starnescr@y...]
> Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 7:36 PM
> To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Hammock Camping Re: OK.....first question
>
>
> I'm not sure which snakes can climb trees.  I know black racers and
> chichen snakes do.  I was a tree climber for several years in my
> younger days and got quite a scare several times when I would climb
> across one being real still or hid in a knot or nest.  Good thing I
> was tied in or I might have fell to the ground a few times. But I
> don't
>
> Coy Boy
>
> -

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "tcoug7 <tcoug7@a...>"
<tcoug7@a...> wrote:

> Ed, only once I found a nosy squirrel on the hanging ropes.  I
wasn't
> in the hammock at the time.

I recently had a small bird (Carolina Wren) perch on the breather
hole of my Pea Pod while I was inside! This was beneath the rain
canopy! It woke me up (early dawn) and I looked out to see what it
was. He/she only moved down to my chest and watched me closely. It
flew away when I stuck my head all the way out. Guess it just wanted
to check out the food potential!

Hi there, I am new to the list and perhaps I should be looking into the archives for my answers, but will start here.

 

I have a Hennessy Explorer Ultralight A-sym hammock. I love the weight 2 lbs 3oz total.  It is another option for me than a tent or tarp which I have used prior. I live at 5600ft level in the Wood River Valley, Sun Valley, Idaho. This past fall I used my hammock in the Sawtooth mountains at  9,500 ft and at night it was 28 degrees F. I had a winshield reflector and my Mt. Washington Pad, all of this did not add signifcant weight to my pack and it did work for me, using extra clothing and my WM ultralight sleeping bag good to 25 degrees F.

 

At home, here at 5600ft, I have my hammock rigged up outside the house and the night times lows are 10F - 20F. I have

yet to come up with a pad that will not let the cold in at the bottom of the hammock. The Windshield Refector and the Mt. Wash. pad just do not cut it.  I am also putting on lots of extra clothes and using the same sleeping bag.

 

How do you do it in cold weathr.

 

Cheers,   Marge

 

At home, here at 5600ft, I have my hammock rigged up outside the house and the night times lows are 10F - 20F. I haveyet to come up with a pad that will not let the cold in at the bottom of the hammock. The Windshield Refector and the Mt. Wash. pad just do not cut it.  I am also putting on lots of extra clothes and using the same sleeping bag.
 How do you do it in cold weathr.
 Cheers,   Marge  

I bought some quilt batting and cheap nylon material at Wal-Mart
about a month ago and have been thinking of a way to attach it under
my hammock. I was thinking of pinning it with safty pins every foot
or so.  David (Bear) has me thinking of making my pad as a hammock
completly independent of the hammock I'm in.  Now if I can solve the
bottem entry. On thing I've noticed is I always end up with my feet
right of center and head left of center, creating the diagional
position recomended for sleeping.  Hanging the quilt/pad like a
hammock would more than likely result in the pad staying pretty much
centered.  I want it to hang under like this. (see drawing) Also it
may be wider at the head end than I'm showing but it was easier to
make it even in the drawing. Also sometimes a drawing like this gets
killed when sent so it may look like ?

              foot end
             --------
           /        /
          /        /
         [  entry /
        /[ slit  /
       /        /
      /        /
     /        /
    /        /
   /        /
  /        /
   -------
head end

PS I have wanted a DAM air mattres for sometime but the cost has
stopped me so far. That is probably the best solution.

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <info@s...> wrote:
> Marge, cold weather use of the hammock is possible, but as you've
found
> out, it requires extra insulation.  I've been compiling my cold-
weather
> gear list --see it and a feature article on winter hammock camping
in
> the Jan issue of my free online newsletter at:
> http://www.hammockcamping.com/Newsletters/NEWS.htm  I just
completed a
> 50-mile hike on the AT in GA and the temps dropped to 18; we kept
warm
> with plenty of insulation.
>
> I'm using a total of 3/4" foam pad, a Mylar sheet, 20 degree down
bag
> inside, my outside Pea Pod shell, and longjohn clothes. This is
good
> down to about 15 degrees w/ no wind.  Colder temps require more
bottom
> insulation.
>
> I'm not familiar w/ the Mt. Wash pad; but if it is inflatable, it
may
> not provide as much warmth as similar thick closed-cell foam pads.
> Inflatables are unsurpassed for cushinging comfort (of course, not
> needed in a hammock) but often fall short as cold insulators.
> Closed-cell foam pads provide better cold insulation.  The only
> inflatable I recommend is the 3"-thick, down-filled one from
Stevenson
> Warmlite  http://www.warmlite.com  It's expensive, but worth it's
weight
> (1.5 lbs) in gold.  It's a custom-made item and delivery can take
> forever.
>
> The width of your pad/s is also critical--most pads are simply too
> narrow to provide the side insulation needed in a hammock. I get
by w/
> 24"; but many folks will need more.  30" is about perfect.  The
thick
> closed-cell foam pads needed for cold weather buckle uncomfortably
in a
> hammock--so some compromise is needed here.
>
> Glad to hear you're not letting the cold stop you Marge!  Let us
know
> how it goes.
>
>
> At home, here at 5600ft, I have my hammock rigged up outside the
house
> and the night times lows are 10F - 20F. I haveyet to come up with
a pad
> that will not let the cold in at the bottom of the hammock. The
> Windshield Refector and the Mt. Wash. pad just do not cut it.  I
am also
> putting on lots of extra clothes and using the same sleeping bag.
>  How do you do it in cold weathr.
>  Cheers,   Marge

-----Original Message-----
From: David Chinell [mailto:dchinell@...]
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 10:21 AM
To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Hammock Camping Cold Weather

Marge:

 

So far as I'm concerned, you're one of the pioneers in cold weather hammocking. If two half-inch pads don't hold back the cold, I'm not going out! So don't look to me for any better answers than those you're busily exploring for all of us.

 

Bear

Ed: Yup to all you said.

I've been daydreaming about a nylon sleeve shaped like
this...

       ----------
      /          \
  ----|          |----
/    |          |    \
|    |          |    |
|    |          |    |
|    |          |    |
|    |          |    |
\    |          |    /
  ----|          |----
      |          |
      |          |
      |          |
      |          |
      |          |
      \          /
       ----------

This is just so I get the width I need using three narrow
pads. The advantage to separate pads is that they'd be easy
to roll up. The middle section could have enough slack to
allow one or two 1/2-inch pads to be slipped in.

I think this would work in a Tropical hammock, or in an HH.
But the material is only important when it's in the HH. For
that application, the bottom fabric would be smooth, to
allow sliding around as I reposition myself. The top would
be rough to stick with me as I moved around.

You can see something similar if you check out a Mountain
Hardwear pad. Only, of course, their cover doesn't have the
wings. But their choice of rough and smooth fabrics behaves
as I've described.

http://www.mountainhardware.com/

Bear

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Speer [mailto:info@...]
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 10:26 AM
To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Hammock Camping Cold Weather

Marge, cold weather use of the hammock is possible, but as you've found out, it requires extra insulation.  I've been compiling my cold-weather gear list --see it and a feature article on winter hammock camping in the Jan issue of my free online newsletter at: http://www.hammockcamping.com/Newsletters/NEWS.htm  I just completed a 50-mile hike on the AT in GA and the temps dropped to 18; we kept warm with plenty of insulation.

 

Coy,

It is the rear entry in the HH hammocks that have stopped me from putting
anything under the hammock.  Tell me when you figure out how to get in the
hammock with a quilt pinned all over the bottom, then I will try.  <:)
Cheers,  Marge

-----Original Message-----
From: starnescr <starnescr@...> [mailto:starnescr@...]
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 11:01 AM
To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Hammock Camping Re: Cold Weather

Before I go and order a Evazote, one inch pad from MEC in Canada, has anyone
had any experience  using this pad or know anything about the density or
cold rating? Here is the site url, go to Main shopping, then sleeping bags,
then pads on the left side of page.

Cheers,  Marge
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_listing.jsp;jsessionid=2dTX7HkwSoem

-----Original Message-----
From: Marge Prothman [mailto:marge@...]
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 2:51 PM
To: Hammockcamping
Subject: Hammock Camping Question

Before I go and order a Evazote, one inch pad from MEC in Canada, has anyone
had any experience  using this pad or know anything about the density or
cold rating? Here is the site url, go to Main shopping, then sleeping bags,
then pads on the left side of page.

Cheers,  Marge
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_listing.jsp;jsessionid=2dTX7HkwSoem


Marge, I checked them out. They look good, although I've never used one. The large winter pad is 23.6" (60mm) wide, so it's on the narrow side. It's also 15mm thick which is only 3/4", I think.  But that may be good, since foam pads as thick as 1" buckle in a hammock and create uncomfortable folds.  Better to use two thinner foam pads.  Since you're in very cold temps up there, the Evazote Winter pad (15mmX60cmX185 cm) along with a 26-30" wide 1/4" thick pad should do nicely.  Some sources of 1/4" pads are given in the Jan issue of Hammock Camping News.

Ed

Yahoo killed my drawing.  it dont like wide open spaces I guess.
Needs to learn to like the Dixie Chicks LOL
See if this works. The explination points are the entry slit. Also
the angle is exagureted a little.  Imagine it a little straighter up
and down.

0000000000000000000000000
0000000000000 ooooooo 000
000000000000 ooooooo 0000
00000000000 !oooooo 00000
0000000000 o!ooooo 000000
000000000 oo!oooo 0000000
00000000 ooooooo 00000000
0000000 ooooooo 000000000
000000 ooooooo 0000000000
00000 ooooooo 00000000000
0000 ooooooo 000000000000
000 ooooooo 0000000000000
00 ooooooo 00000000000000
0000000000000000000000000

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Marge Prothman" <marge@p...>
wrote:
> Coy,
>
> It is the rear entry in the HH hammocks that have stopped me from
putting
> anything under the hammock.  Tell me when you figure out how to
get in the
> hammock with a quilt pinned all over the bottom, then I will try.
<:)
> Cheers,  Marge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: starnescr <starnescr@y...> [mailto:starnescr@y...]
> Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 11:01 AM
> To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Hammock Camping Re: Cold Weather

-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Speer [mailto:info@...]
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 1:12 PM
To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: Hammock Camping Question

-----Original Message-----
From: Marge Prothman [mailto:marge@...]
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 2:51 PM
To: Hammockcamping
Subject: Hammock Camping Question

Thanks;  I'm interested in comparing hammock weight to tent weight.  So
if I take out the poncho liner and the pad (36.5 oz), that leaves (90.5
- 36.5) 54.0 oz.  That's  very comparable to a one-person tent; my Light
Year CD weighs 63.8 oz, for example.

David Chinell wrote:
>
> Jim: Weight in ounces
>
> 18.1 Nomad Traveler Tropical Hammock
> 13.6 Custom 8 x 8 ft silnylon tarp
> 05.2 Custom 9 x 12 ft mosquito net
> 12.5 Closed-cell foam pad 24 x 60 in
> 24.0 Thinsulate poncho liner 7.5 x 5 ft
>
> 06.5 Tree ropes
> 02.5 Ridge line
> 04.0 Tarp lines
> 03.6 Tent pegs
> 00.5 Binder clips
>
> 90.5 Total
>
> 33.5 Speer Pea Pod
>
> Bear
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> hammockcamping-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--
James P. ('Jim') Lynch
jplynch@...

Ed

The Thermarest site gives the R-value of its pads.  For instance the
camp rest = 7.3 (but over 4 lbs.)
z-rest    = 2.2
ridge rest = 2.6 &3.1 (different thickness pads)

Here is the link. You will have to navigat to each pad.

http://www.cascadedesigns.com/thermarest/

Coy Boy

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Speer" <info@s...> wrote:
> Marge asked about the insulation value of sleep pads. I don't think
> comparable figures are available. But it would be useful if they
were.
> One industry standard of representating insulating vaule is the R-
Value.
> R-Value stands for Thermal Resistance and is some sort of direct
> measurement of how much heat does not flow thru a membrane--used
> extensively in house construction.  The higher the R-Value, the
better
> the insulation. Does anyone know of actual R-Values for the various
> sleep pads?
>
> The only one I know is the Reflectix pads I sell.  Since they are
cut
> from wall-insulation material, I found an R-Value of 4 for use
like a
> sleep pad (in direct contact w/ heat source).  My Reflectix
(similar or
> the same as most car windshield sunscreens) is 5/16" thick, bubble
wrap
> sandwiched between layers of aluminum foil.  It also keeps 97% of
your
> body's radient heat from escaping (according to the ads), so it
serves a
> double purpose. All pads block some radient heat, but probably not
as
> much as the reflective pad (note you can use a 2 oz Mylar survivial
> blanket for the same purpose).
>
> Can we put together a list of insulation R-values?  Do any of the
> commerical sleep pads list the R-Value?
>
> Here's my start (based on some ad info):
>
> Reflectix, 5/16" thick, bubble wrap w/ Al foil, 3.75 oz/yd2
> R-Value 4
> Thinsulate Lite Loft, synthetic insulation, THL2, 0.8" thick, 2.8
oz/yd2
> R-Value 2.2
> Thinsulate Lite Loft, synthetic insulation, THL4, 1.1" thick, 5.9
oz/yd2
> R-Value 3.5
> Primaloft, synthetic insulation, Type 3 oz, 0.8" thick, 3 oz/yd2
> R-Value 2.15
> Primaloft, synthetic insulation, Type 6 oz, 1.6" thick, 6 oz/yd2
> R-Value 3.43
>
> In synthetic insulation R-Values, Primaloft and Lite Loft are
apparently
> the winners, with Polarguard 3D a colse second.  Other
considerations,
> such as water absorption, wet performance, compressability,
durability,
> etc vary greatly among the various synthetic insulators.
>
> Does anyone have any figures for down insulation?
>
> I assume most closed-cell foam pads will have R-Values similar to
the
> Reflectix--however, the thicker the pad, the higher it's R-Value
should
> be.
>
> The clo is another industry measurement of garmet warmth and is
probably
> a better reference than R-Value. However, no one uses this number
yet
> (it's extremely hard to calculate or measure).
>
> It will be very interesting if we can compare R-Values for closed-
cell
> foam pads and inflatables!
>
> Ed

That's interesting Marge. I was wondering if others also had problems
with wide pads in the hammock. How wide is your 1/4" pad?  I find 30"
about the max I can take; although wider is even warmer.

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Marge Prothman" <marge@p...>
wrote:
> Ed, thanks for your reply.  I am still thinking about the Evazote
pad.  I
> have the 1/4 " padding I ;purchased from Wilderness Fabric and that
is what
> is giving me fits inside the hammock. It will not stay in place and
buckles
> even after I reshape and cut it at different angles in hope that it
will lay
> flat.  It envelopes me like a cocoon, and I like to lay flat on my
hammock
> on my side.
> thanks,  Marge

Thanks Coy Boy
I'll check it out and add to my list
Ed

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "starnescr <starnescr@y...>"
<starnescr@y...> wrote:
> Ed
>
> The Thermarest site gives the R-value of its pads.  For instance
the
> camp rest = 7.3 (but over 4 lbs.)
> z-rest    = 2.2
> ridge rest = 2.6 &3.1 (different thickness pads)
>
> Here is the link. You will have to navigat to each pad.
>
> http://www.cascadedesigns.com/thermarest/
>
> Coy Boy
>

I see several posts are followed with a paperclip symbol.  Went to
yahoo help but can't find.  Anyone know??

Ed,
The pad I purchased from Wilderness Fabrics was Foam Y20 1/4" 2lb Den 40 x
80.
I trimmed it down to 35" x 65" left a piece sticking up for the head 8' x
16" and
Made a slit up the middle at the bottom about 16". I put this in first, then
my Windshield
Reflector and my Mtn Wash. Pad (closed foam).

The 1/4" pad for me cocooned me too much and would not lay flat, it got
folds in it.
Marge




-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Speer <info@...> [mailto:info@...]
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 3:03 PM
To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Hammock Camping Sleep Pads


That's interesting Marge. I was wondering if others also had problems
with wide pads in the hammock. How wide is your 1/4" pad?  I find 30"
about the max I can take; although wider is even warmer.

-

Jim:

That sounds about right to me. I know you can get an even
lower overall shelter weight with an HH. I think that's
because everything is fitted to everything else, so there's
no extra material.

I also use the HH Expedition and UltraLight Backpacker
models. Fast, light, simple. But I like the top entry
hammocks better for convenience of use.

Bear



-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Lynch [mailto:jplynch@...]
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 04:49 PM
To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Hammock Camping My rig - long


Thanks;  I'm interested in comparing hammock weight to tent
weight.  So
if I take out the poncho liner and the pad (36.5 oz), that
leaves (90.5
- 36.5) 54.0 oz.  That's  very comparable to a one-person
tent; my Light
Year CD weighs 63.8 oz, for example.

Ed and Marge:

That's an advantage a the Tropical (or other top entry)
hammock with two layers. I've used a trimmed Oware pad
that's about 48 inches wide. Goes from edge to edge of my
hammock, but stays flat and stable. I just can't roll it up
neatly.

Bear


-----Original Message-----
From: Ed Speer <info@...>
[mailto:info@...]
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2003 05:03 PM
To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Hammock Camping Sleep Pads


That's interesting Marge. I was wondering if others also had
problems
with wide pads in the hammock. How wide is your 1/4" pad?  I
find 30"
about the max I can take; although wider is even warmer.

So WE now have our own "Hammock" site, how COOL.  I'll check in
often. Hammock Hanger

I've also had the buckle problems Marge referred to. I often solve
the problem by putting one or more of my pads inside the Pea Pod
shell so they lie outside the hammock. I favor the comfort of the
hammock without a pad inside anyway; but it is warmer if the pad is
inside. So I let the temperature tell me where to put the pad/s.  Of
course folks without the Pea Pod or Bear's 'double bottom' hammock
can't do this.  And such a wide pad is difficult to fold/roll and
stuff into a pack.  So I use wide liner pads for car camping and
multiple narrow pads for hiking.
Ed

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "David Chinell"
<dchinell@m...> wrote:
> Ed and Marge:
>
> That's an advantage a the Tropical (or other top entry)
> hammock with two layers. I've used a trimmed Oware pad
> that's about 48 inches wide. Goes from edge to edge of my
> hammock, but stays flat and stable. I just can't roll it up
> neatly.
>
> Bear

Most glad to have you onboard Hammock Hanger. We only started a day
or two ago, so you found us fast.  Will I see ya at the GA or PA
Rucks?

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Susan Turner
<HammockHanger@a...>" <HammockHanger@a...> wrote:
> So WE now have our own "Hammock" site, how COOL.  I'll check in
> often. Hammock Hanger