no ralph... you & dave are right about the concerns you expressed.  if anybody

was actually going to begin to experiment w/ something like that, i would sure

hope it would be done w/ extream caution & respect.

       it would really need to be tested in such a way as to give every

oppertunity to fail (go up in flames), but w/ no body in the hammock.

    it makes me cringe to think about what could happen to one of our fellow

hammockers if a mistake was made.

   it`s probably best not to even be suggesting this so openly.  ...tim



Ralph Oborn <Ralph.oborn@...> wrote: Hey guys, sorry if it sounded like I

was negative (or a know-it-all).

What I should have said is ...

These are the challenges that must be addressed.  Sounds much nicer that

way.



Looks like Keith has already covered many of them.





I really enjoy the experimentation here.



Ralph.









don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!





---------------------------------

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.  Check it out.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Agree with Ralph here.



My first escape is to the ground.  My second escape is to add candle

heat inside a covering.  I don't want to think about reversing that order.



BTW, it is Carbon Monoxide we are concerned about with combustion.

Carbon dioxide is of a little concern in that it can replace oxygen, but

it does not poison the ability of the blood to carry oxygen like carbon

monoxide does.



I have used a carbon monoxide detector to check for CO inside a tarp

wrapped around me with a candle between my legs.  If I am careful I am

able to keep my pants away from the candle.  (Think or sitting with back

against tree and feet planted a couple feet in front of me with about

two feet between my legs.  I am sitting on the end of the tarp and

holding the other end of the tarp with my feet.  I am looking down at

the candle which is out nearer my knees.)  There was no carbon monoxide

detected.  Other internet resources show CO at essentially a zero

concentration when an area has a candle burning it it.



The only time I have ever done this in the woods was when I was feeling

quite cold after a rainy day on the AT in April.  I sat down in a

shelter and instead of using my tarp, I opened up my frog sac and ran it

between my back and my feet, enclosing the space for the candle.



The candle puts out a lot of heat in a little time and warmed me up very

quickly.



Obviously I live in dread of the fabric catching on fire and am very

sure of exactly where the cloth is at every moment.  One moment of

inattention can turn the best insulation I have into useless ash and

probably badly burn me at the same time.



Be careful.



Rick





Ralph Oborn wrote:

> Hey folks I think the risks of using a candle in a small tent, bivy or

> hammock are to great to even be considered.

>

>

>    - Hot wax, or oil dripping

>    - Carbon monoxide poisoning

>    - Carbon dioxide suffocation

>    - Flamibility of lighweight material

>    - Heat from candle melting your shelter

>    - How will you hang it? heat resistant ?

>    - Even a lantern gets real hot!!

>

> Especially in a hammock, hang a flashlight from your ridge line and then

> climb in and move around, see how much it bounces!!!

>

> Hold your hand, or some scrap materiel above the candle and feel how hot it

> is, will it melt your tarp?

>

> Ralph

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

Thanks Rick.  I guess just because it can be done doesn't mean that it

should be done.  I've noticed that Ed has been abstaining from comment

on this thread ever since we started to seriously talk about making a

working model.  I guess that means we won't be seeing a Speer Hammock

undercover with built in candle warmer or a frog sac with internal

candle pocket for sale on his site in the near future. ;*)



Brian

T-BACK



----- Original Message -----

From: Rick <ra1@...>

Date: Friday, October 6, 2006 11:08 am

Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Tarp Tent

To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com



> Agree with Ralph here.

>

> My first escape is to the ground.  My second escape is to add

> candle

> heat inside a covering.  I don't want to think about reversing

> that order.

there are materials that are highly flame resistant.  no dought, they would be a

lot heaver than you`d want to use for the hammock, but you`d only need a small

area above the flame.  it wouldn`t take long for the candle`s heat to mix w/ the

air in the shell & become less dangerous.  mabey some sort of a distributer

would help make this happen even quicker.

   and i dought one (or more) candels could put off enough CO2 to be any danger

if the warm air from the candles vented near the head & foot ends.  especialy

under a tarp.    ...tim



opnheartscrub@... wrote: Ed and Tim,



I think this might be doable.  I think the candle would have to be

contained in a lantern of some kind (or in a can since you would not

be trying to read its light) to keep the wax from splashing when the

hammock moved.  It seems that the can could be suspended from a loose

under-layer like the burner of a hot air balloon and vent out of the

ends of the hammock..  Maybe a diffuser plate on top of the can to

keep the flame directly under you from creating a hot spot.  Do you

really think one candle could produce enough CO2 to be dangerous?

Boy, this could be a really light weight winter solution if it can be

worked out.  There's also catalitic heaters like the old hand warmers

that were fueled by lighter fluid.



Brian

T-BACK..















don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!





---------------------------------

Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help. Yahoo! Small

Business.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Black Wolf, like you I bought my Cand-oil lantern a long time ago-but is it

still available on the market?  I seem to remember that it has been

discontinued for safety reasons, but I'm not sure.  Guess I could google it

myself..Ed







Moderator, Hammock Camping List

Author, Hammock Camping, The Complete Guide



Editor, Hammock Camping News



Owner, Speer Hammocks Inc







   _____



From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]

On Behalf Of Bruce W. Calkins

Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 4:31 AM

To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Tarp Tent









This parallels my experience. I still have the third, and most recent,

Cand-oil (tm) oil lamp I bought in 1992. It has not however, been used in

more than half a decade.



Bruce W.

Black Wolfe



----------------------------------------------------------

Keith Writes,



A while ago before converting from tents to tarps - LONG before my

hammock conversion - I used a candle lantern in my tent during the

winter. It did provide some extra warmth in my double-wall tent, and

it kept the condensation down.



----------------------------------------------------------



> ed... that conjures up some interresting pictures<G>

> i don`t know how safely it could be done in reality, but if a

person could have a candle lantern hanging in something like a stove

windscreen (as an attachment point) & attached to the bottom, center

of a hammock sock... a certian amount of heat would rise up around the

hammock (inside the sock) before exiting/venting at the top... mabey

along the edges or the at each end???

> i hope if someone experiments w/ something like that, they will

be fuly focuced on what they`er doing! and do so at your own risk...

not because i suggested it.

> lots of potintial for DANGER!!! ...tim











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I bought the Candle lantern insert and the "replacement" from Campmor.  I

have not seen it listed with them in a long time.  Since my current system

does not call for using it, I have not looked into a source for parts or

replacement.



It is a bit messy in setup and takedown.  I went to a now discontinued Vicks

44 cough medicine bottle for oil storage.  That and a short piece of tubing

allow me to empty it for storage / travel.  Otherwise, it seems to leak from

atmospheric pressure changes.



Bruce W.

Black Wolfe







> Black Wolf, like you I bought my Cand-oil lantern a long time ago-but is

it

> still available on the market?  I seem to remember that it has been

> discontinued for safety reasons, but I'm not sure.  Guess I could google

it

> myself..Ed

>

> This parallels my experience. I still have the third, and most recent,

> Cand-oil (tm) oil lamp I bought in 1992. It has not however, been used in

> more than half a decade.

>

> Bruce W.

> Black Wolfe

If anybody is still considering a candle lantern, they still sell them

here:



http://www.vtarmynavy.com/candle_lanterns.htm



I have absolutely no experience with one (I have never used a candle

lantern under any conditions). I don't think I would care to "test"

one in a hammock. Under a tarp would be a different question. I just

don't think that under a tarp it would be very effective - kind of

like some of my neighbors - their kids leave the front door wide open

(they just cannot be bothered to close the door as they go out) with

the air conditioner going full blast in the summer or the furnace

going full blast in the dead of winter with the wind whistling through

the house - seems rather futile.



--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce W. Calkins"

<blackwolfe@...> wrote:

>

> I bought the Candle lantern insert and the "replacement" from

Campmor.  I

> have not seen it listed with them in a long time.  Since my current

system

> does not call for using it, I have not looked into a source for parts or

> replacement.

>

> It is a bit messy in setup and takedown.  I went to a now

discontinued Vicks

> 44 cough medicine bottle for oil storage.  That and a short piece of

tubing

> allow me to empty it for storage / travel.  Otherwise, it seems to

leak from

> atmospheric pressure changes.

>

> Bruce W.

> Black Wolfe

>

>

>

> > Black Wolf, like you I bought my Cand-oil lantern a long time

ago-but is

> it

> > still available on the market?  I seem to remember that it has been

> > discontinued for safety reasons, but I'm not sure.  Guess I could

google

> it

> > myself..Ed

> >

> > This parallels my experience. I still have the third, and most recent,

> > Cand-oil (tm) oil lamp I bought in 1992. It has not however, been

used in

> > more than half a decade.

> >

> > Bruce W.

> > Black Wolfe

>

The problem with hanging a candle lantern is that when the lantern

swings the hot wax drains down the side of the lantern and hardens then

jams the automatic candle advance.



I have had very good luck with a tea candle lantern.



CANDLE LANTERN WITH FULL CANDLE                6.2oz.

TEA CANDLE LANTERN IN PEANUT BUTTER JAR                5.3oz.



Dick Matthews





terry_and_pearl wrote:



>If anybody is still considering a candle lantern, they still sell them

>here:

>

>http://www.vtarmynavy.com/candle_lanterns.htm

>

>I have absolutely no experience with one (I have never used a candle

>lantern under any conditions). I don't think I would care to "test"

>one in a hammock. Under a tarp would be a different question. I just

>don't think that under a tarp it would be very effective - kind of

>like some of my neighbors - their kids leave the front door wide open

>(they just cannot be bothered to close the door as they go out) with

>the air conditioner going full blast in the summer or the furnace

>going full blast in the dead of winter with the wind whistling through

>the house - seems rather futile.

>

>

>

> I guess that means we won't be seeing a Speer Hammock

> undercover with built in candle warmer or a frog sac with internal

> candle pocket for sale on his site in the near future. ;*)



The liability issues on that one just boggle the mind...



Shane

Thanks for the info Rick.  You're right, it's CO, not CO2 that I was worried

about.  I did something similar years ago on a cold rainy day on a long

bicycle trip in Arizona.  Except I managed to find a standing hollow

tree-wiggled inside & burned a candle for warmth.  Once I got warm, I got

back on my bicycle and went home!  .Ed







Moderator, Hammock Camping List

Author, Hammock Camping, The Complete Guide



Editor, Hammock Camping News



Owner, Speer Hammocks Inc







   _____



From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]

On Behalf Of Rick

Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 11:08 AM

To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Tarp Tent







Agree with Ralph here.



My first escape is to the ground. My second escape is to add candle

heat inside a covering. I don't want to think about reversing that order.



BTW, it is Carbon Monoxide we are concerned about with combustion.

Carbon dioxide is of a little concern in that it can replace oxygen, but

it does not poison the ability of the blood to carry oxygen like carbon

monoxide does.



I have used a carbon monoxide detector to check for CO inside a tarp

wrapped around me with a candle between my legs. If I am careful I am

able to keep my pants away from the candle. (Think or sitting with back

against tree and feet planted a couple feet in front of me with about

two feet between my legs. I am sitting on the end of the tarp and

holding the other end of the tarp with my feet. I am looking down at

the candle which is out nearer my knees.) There was no carbon monoxide

detected. Other internet resources show CO at essentially a zero

concentration when an area has a candle burning it it.



The only time I have ever done this in the woods was when I was feeling

quite cold after a rainy day on the AT in April. I sat down in a

shelter and instead of using my tarp, I opened up my frog sac and ran it

between my back and my feet, enclosing the space for the candle.



The candle puts out a lot of heat in a little time and warmed me up very

quickly.



Obviously I live in dread of the fabric catching on fire and am very

sure of exactly where the cloth is at every moment. One moment of

inattention can turn the best insulation I have into useless ash and

probably badly burn me at the same time.



Be careful.



Rick



Ralph Oborn wrote:

> Hey folks I think the risks of using a candle in a small tent, bivy or

> hammock are to great to even be considered.

>

>

> - Hot wax, or oil dripping

> - Carbon monoxide poisoning

> - Carbon dioxide suffocation

> - Flamibility of lighweight material

> - Heat from candle melting your shelter

> - How will you hang it? heat resistant ?

> - Even a lantern gets real hot!!

>

> Especially in a hammock, hang a flashlight from your ridge line and then

> climb in and move around, see how much it bounces!!!

>

> Hold your hand, or some scrap materiel above the candle and feel how hot

it

> is, will it melt your tarp?

>

> Ralph

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Maybe yes, maybe not.  But I am working on one of those new wind-driven heat

exchanges for the hammock!  Works great at anything over 60 knots.  Still

working out a few bugs.  Details later..Ed







Moderator, Hammock Camping List

Author, Hammock Camping, The Complete Guide



Editor, Hammock Camping News



Owner, Speer Hammocks Inc







   _____



From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com [mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com]

On Behalf Of opnheartscrub@...

Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 12:41 PM

To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com

Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Tarp Tent







Thanks Rick. I guess just because it can be done doesn't mean that it

should be done. I've noticed that Ed has been abstaining from comment

on this thread ever since we started to seriously talk about making a

working model. I guess that means we won't be seeing a Speer Hammock

undercover with built in candle warmer or a frog sac with internal

candle pocket for sale on his site in the near future. ;*)



Brian

T-BACK



----- Original Message -----

From: Rick <ra1@... <mailto:ra1%40imrisk.com> >

Date: Friday, October 6, 2006 11:08 am

Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: Tarp Tent

To: hammockcamping@ <mailto:hammockcamping%40yahoogroups.com>

yahoogroups.com



> Agree with Ralph here.

>

> My first escape is to the ground. My second escape is to add

> candle

> heat inside a covering. I don't want to think about reversing

> that order.











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I guess that means we won't be seeing a Speer Hammock

undercover with built in candle warmer or a frog sac with internal

candle pocket for sale on his site in the near future. ;*)



Brian

T-BACK



On 10/6/06, Ed Speer <ed@...> wrote:



> Maybe yes, maybe not.  But I am working on one of those new wind-driven

> heat

> exchanges for the hammock!  Works great at anything over 60 knots.  Still

> working out a few bugs.  Details later..Ed





I'm confused, I thought you were talking about wind?

Does this mean that you are harnessing mosquitoes to keep you warm?

Do the mosquitoes have to be going 60 knots?

Will other insects work as an alternative?

Can mosquitoes tie knots?

How do you get the bugs to workout? On a treadmill? or just calesthentics?



Ralph Oborn





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

ralph... they`ll have to be the ones from farther south... or alaska, or

somewhere.

  the skeeters in n.c. aren`t big enough.    ...tim

   PS... how big do they get in idaho?



Ralph Oborn <Ralph.oborn@...> wrote:.

.

I'm confused, I thought you were talking about wind?

Does this mean that you are harnessing mosquitoes to keep you warm?

Do the mosquitoes have to be going 60 knots?

Will other insects work as an alternative?

Can mosquitoes tie knots?

How do you get the bugs to workout? On a treadmill? or just calesthentics?



Ralph Oborn





.

.











don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!





---------------------------------

Get your email and more, right on the  new Yahoo.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 10/7/06, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:

>

> ralph... they`ll have to be the ones from farther south... or alaska, or

> somewhere.

> the skeeters in n.c. aren`t big enough.    ...tim

> PS... how big do they get in idaho?





Two of them together have been known to pick up small children....



takes about a dozen working together for a steer.    :]





Ralph





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

After more thought, I have decided to make a simple 10' x 10' silnylon

tarp to use over my HH Backpacker A-Sym.



No catenary cuts.



You cannot make a simple, single cat cut on all sides, since then it

cannot be used as a simple A-frame. You would have to make a single

cat cut on one side and two on the other two sides. You then end up

with the MacCat, which has to be rigged only one way and will always

use 4 stakes.



With a simple square, you can rig along the diagonal, 2 stakes, or as

an A-frame, 4 stakes. You can modify the A-frame by shifting more

upwind and leaving the downwind side more exposed.



Also, by using the micro Grip Clips and foregoing the tie out loops, I

can shift the tie outs to any points on the perimeter as needed. I can

even pull the A-frame closer to the ground on the sides than the sides

of the tarp to get it as close to the hammock as possible. Also, when

rigging on the diagonal, I can use 2 Grip Clips on the sides, instead

of a single one at the corner, and pull down almost vertically.



Easier to sew, easier to setup/take-down and pack. Will probably flap

somewhat in the wind, but that is a simple tradeoff for more versatility.

Hey Terry, I know exactly what you are going through. I've already

been down this road. What I did was to get some cheap poly tarps

from Wally World and sew up prototypes. I actually used these in

my "safe zone" camping spot. I tried rectangular, diagonal, square

all of it. In some of my photos you will see different tarps, many

of those were the prototypes I used to find my perfect style.

My thoughts are this:

1) Once you find a tarp configuration (set-up wise I mean) that you

like, you will proly never vary from that.

2) While it is good to consider other pitch options, you will almost

NEVER use them. I carry a small sil-nyl tarp in my survival kit that

I use when I hafta go to ground. It is a simple 8 x 6 trapezoid.

3) There is a catenary curve generator in the files section (Xl

Spreadsheet format). However, I used a 1 inch per foot cat cut. A

10' curve on 10', and half that for the ridgeline. And I have been

very happy with that.

4) I settled on a 10 x 10 cat cut tarp because I like the extra

room. I am primarily a hunter and I like to have extra space for my

gear (bow, arrows, binos, wet socks).

5) Tarp size and configuration is diverse as the people who use them

it seems. Some use McCat, others swear by the Sportaman'a Guide

model, others use the Kelty Noah and still others cut their tarps up

into stuff sacks and build new ones for apparrently no reason. :)



So build on friend, build on...and post the pixels.



Rat



--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "terry_and_pearl"

<terry_and_pearl@...> wrote:

>

> After more thought, I have decided to make a simple 10' x 10'

silnylon

> tarp to use over my HH Backpacker A-Sym.

>

> No catenary cuts.

>

> You cannot make a simple, single cat cut on all sides, since then

it

> cannot be used as a simple A-frame. You would have to make a single

> cat cut on one side and two on the other two sides. You then end up

> with the MacCat, which has to be rigged only one way and will

always

> use 4 stakes.

>

> With a simple square, you can rig along the diagonal, 2 stakes, or

as

> an A-frame, 4 stakes. You can modify the A-frame by shifting more

> upwind and leaving the downwind side more exposed.

>

> Also, by using the micro Grip Clips and foregoing the tie out

loops, I

> can shift the tie outs to any points on the perimeter as needed. I

can

> even pull the A-frame closer to the ground on the sides than the

sides

> of the tarp to get it as close to the hammock as possible. Also,

when

> rigging on the diagonal, I can use 2 Grip Clips on the sides,

instead

> of a single one at the corner, and pull down almost vertically.

>

> Easier to sew, easier to setup/take-down and pack. Will probably

flap

> somewhat in the wind, but that is a simple tradeoff for more

versatility.

>

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Rat" <hogn8r2004@...> wrote:



> 1) Once you find a tarp configuration (set-up wise I mean) that you

> like, you will proly never vary from that.

> 2) While it is good to consider other pitch options, you will almost

> NEVER use them.



Hi all. I think you are right. I have 2 or 3 setups that I use

according to needs when its not possible to use the hammock. Pls se my

http://website www.asp.st/tarp.htm . Unfortunatly its in swedish but

there are pictures of my 3 favourites.

While you are at my place also look at http://www.asp.st/hammock.htm,

still in swedish but with some hammock pictures.



Take care out there

/p-a

after reading complaints from HH owners on rain and the original HH tarps, I

ordered the HH 10 x 12 tarp... Haven't used it yet, but it's quite bulky.  Does

anyone take something like this with them?



   I ordered Ray Jardine's Tarp kit - no time to sew yet! - Has anyone made this?

and used it over a hammock?   (Also ordered his bug tent - don't remember the

name?)



terry_and_pearl <terry_and_pearl@...> wrote:

           After more thought, I have decided to make a simple 10' x 10' silnylon

tarp to use over my HH Backpacker A-Sym.



No catenary cuts.



You cannot make a simple, single cat cut on all sides, since then it

cannot be used as a simple A-frame. You would have to make a single

cat cut on one side and two on the other two sides. You then end up

with the MacCat, which has to be rigged only one way and will always

use 4 stakes.



With a simple square, you can rig along the diagonal, 2 stakes, or as

an A-frame, 4 stakes. You can modify the A-frame by shifting more

upwind and leaving the downwind side more exposed.



Also, by using the micro Grip Clips and foregoing the tie out loops, I

can shift the tie outs to any points on the perimeter as needed. I can

even pull the A-frame closer to the ground on the sides than the sides

of the tarp to get it as close to the hammock as possible. Also, when

rigging on the diagonal, I can use 2 Grip Clips on the sides, instead

of a single one at the corner, and pull down almost vertically.



Easier to sew, easier to setup/take-down and pack. Will probably flap

somewhat in the wind, but that is a simple tradeoff for more versatility.













Sandy Kramer



---------------------------------

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

countries) for 2¢/min or less.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandy Kramer <sandykayak@...> wrote: after reading complaints from HH

owners on rain and the original HH tarps, I ordered the HH 10 x 12 tarp...

Haven't used it yet, but it's quite bulky.  Does anyone take something like this

with them?



   I ordered Ray Jardine's Tarp kit - no time to sew yet! - Has anyone made this?

and used it over a hammock?   (Also ordered his bug tent - don't remember the

name?)

.

  sandy... i`m asuming that your talking about one of the HH hex flys.  a friend

of mine has the 10 x 12 silnylon hex & i like it (so does he).

  it gives good coverage plus extra room for cooking, gear, etc. and the pockets

on the corners for storing the guy lines are real handy.

     i think it weighs about 1 & 1/2 lbs.

  if you ordered the heavyer coated hex & haven`t used it yet, mabey HH would let

you send it back to swap for the silnylon (but the silnylon cost more).

i have a ray way tarp that i`ve for the last year & a half or so.   i like it.

    i made it the full width w/ the intention of making a two person tarp

t...t...t...nt.......tent  WOW... that does seem like a dirty word now!

   i still have the bug net in a bag & i used what would have been the silnylon

floor for snake skins.

    anyway, i think it weighs about 1 & 1/2 lbs too.  it actualy does great w/ a

hammock.  the only rub i had w/ it was on occasion, when the trees were a little

to close, i had to put the beaks on the ends against the tree in an odd

position.  no big deal though. the beaks did give extra  rain protection on the

ends.

    just a thought... if i were making another ray way tarp to use over a

hammock, i would be thinking of instaling the beaks the same way ot the ends of

the tarp, but not join them in the middle. that would give a lot of flexability

in hanging the tarp at differant angles & close to trees.

  as long as the main section of the tarp is long enough to cover the hammock,

the main function of the beaks would be to block wind blown rain.

    oh yeah... i realy like the pull-outs on the sides of the ray way.   they

make the tarp a LOT more roomy.      ...tim







don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!





---------------------------------

Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.  Check it out.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Tim...   I bought it quite a while ago - almost a year???  before I knew

about silnylon...I've pulled it out so don't think HH would take it back for an

exchange.



   hmmm...not joining the beaks in the middle?  seems as if it would defeat their

purpose...and putting velcro to allow opening and closing would add weight.  or

a nylong zipper?????



tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:

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  ... i`m asuming that your talking about one of the HH hex flys. a friend of

mine has the 10 x 12 silnylon hex & i like it (so does he).

it gives good coverage plus extra room for cooking, gear, etc. and the pockets

on the corners for storing the guy lines are real handy.

i think it weighs about 1 & 1/2 lbs.

if you ordered the heavyer coated hex & haven`t used it yet, mabey HH would let

you send it back to swap for the silnylon (but the silnylon cost more).

i have a ray way tarp that i`ve for the last year & a half or so. i like it.

i made it the full width w/ the intention of making a two person tarp

t...t...t... nt....... tent WOW... that does seem like a dirty word now!

i still have the bug net in a bag & i used what would have been the silnylon

floor for snake skins.

anyway, i think it weighs about 1 & 1/2 lbs too. it actualy does great w/ a

hammock. the only rub i had w/ it was on occasion, when the trees were a little

to close, i had to put the beaks on the ends against the tree in an odd

position. no big deal though. the beaks did give extra rain protection on the

ends.

just a thought... if i were making another ray way tarp to use over a hammock, i

would be thinking of instaling the beaks the same way ot the ends of the tarp,

but not join them in the middle. that would give a lot of flexability in hanging

the tarp at differant angles & close to trees.







Sandy Kramer



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sandy Kramer <sandykayak@...> wrote:

Thanks, Tim...   I bought it quite a while ago - almost a year???  before I knew

about silnylon...I've pulled it out so don't think HH would take it back for an

exchange.



    ### even if you decide to get a silnylon tarp for backpacking, the other one

will still be good to have for car camping & loaning out.





   hmmm...not joining the beaks in the middle?  seems as if it would defeat their

purpose...and putting velcro to allow opening and closing would add weight.  or

a nylong zipper?????



### i haven`t actualy experimented w/ that idea, but i`ve been giving a lot of

though to some type of "end caps" that would weigh near nothing, be easy to use,

& be flexible to accomidate for differant situations.

the main reason for them would be to keep rain from drifting/blowing in onto the

ends of the hammock.

   if the main ridge line of the tarp is longer than your hammock from attachment

point to attachment point, then rain should not be able to drip down onto your

hammock.  the thought about the divided end caps (or beaks) would be that they

over-lap & stop blowing rain before it goes under the main tarp.   if rain runs

in at the slit, it will simply drop strait down shy of the hammock end.   just a

thought at this point.

    also you could take a look at the hammock booties/mini scoks or whatever<g>

that i made to cover the end of my hammock.  i think there`s a photo of them in

the SEHHA 06 album.

   it seems that a lot of people have less problems w/ rain blowing in the ends,

because they hang the tarp a lot closer to the hammock.  but i like to hang my

tarp high & wide when i can so the view`s unrestricted... like laying under a

big porch<G>      ...tim

...

.



   .

.



.



don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tim - scroll to the bottom of Ray Garlington's page and look at the

Tarp Hood.



http://www.garlington.biz/Ray/SilkHammock/



Jeff

ding-dang-it... somebody done beat me to it again<G>

   i`ve been to rays site several times & my attempt to make a variation of the

covers that go over the ends of the hammock clearly come from ray`s pants/shirt,

& risk`s travel pod, & the stuff other people have done, but i don`t think ray

had added the over lapping tarp hood last time i was on his sight.

    i don`t guess it makes a great deal of differance any way. but i would`nt

want anybody to think i was trying to take credit for an idea they came up w/ &

took the time to make & test a prototype.

    i`m not overly concerned about being credited for anything worthwhile i may

come with... but i guess it does make any person feel good to be reconized for

there acomplishments.

     any way, i belive the split tarp hood is a good idea.  i`ve already started

thinking about the possibillity of cutting down my new tarp because of the extra

protection that would be provided by tarp hoods & end covers & such... but i`m

afraid what my seamstress friend (that helped me sew the tarp) would think.

  she may never sew for me again!!!     ...tim



Jeff <jwj32542@...> wrote: Tim - scroll to the bottom of Ray Garlington's

page and look at the

Tarp Hood.



http://www.garlington.biz/Ray/SilkHammock/



Jeff















Yahoo! Groups Links



























don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:

>

> ding-dang-it... somebody done beat me to it again<G>



Isn't that frustrating?  It happens...



Anyway, I think the tarp hoods may be a good idea.  The ends of the

tarp are the only place where getting wet is an issue, and the hoods

can solve it.  I don't really like beaks b/c they restrict what you

can do with the tarp, but keeping the beak separated down the

ridgeline seam means you keep the flexibility...and the hammock strap

can stay near the ridgeline so you still get a low pitch with good

wind protection.



I'd be concerned with how they handle wind and how to store them when

not needed (roll them along the edge and secure with a velcro strap or

something).  Other than that, I think they'll add quite a bit of

protection for a little bit of weight.  Maybe you could email Ray and

see how they're working out for him...unless he lurking - then maybe

he'll chime in...



Jeff

Jeff <jwj32542@...> wrote:.



Anyway, I think the tarp hoods may be a good idea.  .

.

..

.

  ...  Maybe you could email Ray and

see how they're working out for him...unless he lurking - then maybe

he'll chime in...



Jeff



### i`ll do that.    ...tim











Yahoo! Groups Links



























don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

awesome!   I'll have to go back and re-read it a few times, but I was hoping

that I would be able to use the Ray-way tarp (when I make it!) for the hammock.



Jeff <jwj32542@...> wrote:          Tim - scroll to the bottom of Ray

Garlington's page and look at the

Tarp Hood.



http://www.garlington.biz/Ray/SilkHammock/



Jeff













Sandy Kramer



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starting at 1¢/min.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Sandy Kramer <sandykayak@...>

wrote:

>

> awesome!   I'll have to go back and re-read it a few times, but I

was hoping that I would be able to use the Ray-way tarp (when I make

it!) for the hammock.



I don't see why you couldn't.  Especially if you leave a small gap in

the beaks for the hammock support to pass through, but even that isn't

necessary.



One of Jardine's fundamental tenets is customizing your gear to suit

your needs, rather than the manufacturer's needs.  Looks like this is

a good place to start!



Jeff

Hi, Sandy-



I don't have any problems with Henessy's stock tarp in the rain.  I'm even

talking the old style that is proportionally smaller then the A-sym versions. 

The people who do have problems MAY have set-up problems.



First- Pull out the sides and tighten before pulling out the longitudinal ends

taut.



Second- Pitch the fly sides lower when rain is anticipated.



Third- and MAYBE this should have been first- Be sure the fly is matched up to

the sides of the hammock bodies.  I have seen a few people with the Asym tarp

flipped the wrong way, or too far in one direction.



I've been out in tropical storms and other high wind/rain situations.  I've been

able to either set the fly a bit lower or just shift a bit away from the hammock

edge and stay dry.



Good luck.  You may find that you only need some practice.



Rosaleen



Re: Tarp Tent

     Posted by: "Sandy Kramer" sandykayak@...<mailto:sandykayak@...>

sandykayak

     Date: Tue Oct 3, 2006 8:50 am (PDT)



after reading complaints from HH owners on rain and the original HH tarps, I

ordered the HH 10 x 12 tarp... Haven't used it yet, but it's quite bulky.  Does

anyone take something like this with them?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thanks, rosaleen....  i ordered the HH 10 x 12 stock (?) tarp after reading

people who got wet with smaller tarps.   my only concern is that it's pretty

bulky...fairly heavy as well.     hmmmmm...  i have one of those travel-sized

suction bags (you squeeze out the air..don't need the vacuum cleaner!)...maybe

that will work.



Rosaleen Sullivan <rosaleen43@...> wrote:          Hi, Sandy-



I don't have any problems with Henessy's stock tarp in the rain. I'm even

talking the old style that is proportionally smaller then the A-sym versions.

The people who do have problems MAY have set-up problems.



First- Pull out the sides and tighten before pulling out the longitudinal ends

taut.



Second- Pitch the fly sides lower when rain is anticipated.



Third- and MAYBE this should have been first- Be sure the fly is matched up to

the sides of the hammock bodies. I have seen a few people with the Asym tarp

flipped the wrong way, or too far in one direction.



I've been out in tropical storms and other high wind/rain situations. I've been

able to either set the fly a bit lower or just shift a bit away from the hammock

edge and stay dry.



Good luck. You may find that you only need some practice.



Rosaleen



Re: Tarp Tent

Posted by: "Sandy Kramer" sandykayak@...<mailto:sandykayak@...>

sandykayak

Date: Tue Oct 3, 2006 8:50 am (PDT)



after reading complaints from HH owners on rain and the original HH tarps, I

ordered the HH 10 x 12 tarp... Haven't used it yet, but it's quite bulky. Does

anyone take something like this with them?



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]













Sandy Kramer



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bruce W. Calkins wrote:

>This parallels my experience.  I still have the third, and most recent,

>Cand-oil (tm) oil lamp I bought in 1992.  It has not however, been used in

>more than half a decade.

>

>>Keith Wrote:

>>A while ago before converting from tents to tarps - LONG before my

>>hammock conversion - I used a candle lantern in my tent during the

>>winter.  It did provide some extra warmth in my double-wall tent, and

>>it kept the condensation down.



Same here. It works really well in a tent. My hammock setup is a

little more enclosed than most, I think, but there is still room for

a lot of cold air to move through. compared to a tent, unless I

completely close the top. An oil lamp hanging from the ridgeline (my

hammock has a ridgeline) inside adds warmth and does seem to reduce

condensation a little, but not as much as in a tent (again, unless I

completely close it up).



My oil lamp is a Northern Lights Ultralight oil lantern. AFAIK, it

hasn't been made in years. Too bad, as it's a nice little lamp.

Weighs 192 g full and burns 17 hours on a fill. For the curious,

there's a picture of one at this website:

<http://www.lazily.net/camp/stove/candle.html> An interesting place

to browse ... too bad I can't read Japanese well enough to get the

descriptions.



Northern Lights also made the Candoil, but I haven't seen any of

those on the market recently, either. I saw a notice at

<http://www.modernoutpost.com/> saying that "Northern Lights candle

lanterns are no longer available from the manufacturer." Maybe they

went out of business.



About a year and a half ago, I posted my design for a water-jacketed

oil lamp in the MakeGear group. It uses disposable oil candle

cartridges from a restaurant supply store. The water jacket was

necessary because the heat of the flame melted the plastic sides

without it. Of course, that reduces the amount of heat to warm you.



Matthew Takeda

the JOAT