Because finding love is tough enough, dating services especially for
horselovers and their admirers are a beautiful niche to find.

http://www.freewebs.com/equestriandating/

i like the strap pocket rat... is that made onto the end of a webbing that is
the support on one end of your hammock?       ...tim

Rat <hogn8r2004@...> wrote:  I just received my roll of Polypro webbing
and was in the process of
making new straps for the hammocks and traps when this idea hit me.
Now that I use snakeskins on my hammocks I am always faced with the
problem of storing my stakes. Rolling them up in the hammock scares
me a little and having a separate place for them means I am always
looking for them when I need them. So here is what I came up with.
I doubled over a length of webbing and sewed it back to it's self
creating a pocket. I insert the stakes in the pocket and the whole
thing gets lashed to the tarp or hammock. The webbing is thick
enough to not allow the stakes to puncture my tarp, and they are
always with the gear that needs them. Here are the pixels.
http://tinyurl.com/pnp2x

BTW, I got a screaming deal on polypro webbing from here:
http://tinyurl.com/krc4c
It is rated a little less than Ed's, but I used it today and it held
fine. I will be using it for three days this weekend, so I should
know for sure after that.

I also bought some of these to try the double ring suspension, I
bought six. I didn't realise they were so BIG! They must weigh half
a pound each! They do work however, but they will not be a part of
my hammock system. BTW, I think they work because they are powder
coated not polished. So for those of you who are trying to do this
maybe you can find some, or have some, powder coated.
http://tinyurl.com/zgpzu

Rat








Yahoo! Groups Links









don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


---------------------------------
  All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Rat,

I really like your idea.  It also makes it harder to forget that pesky
little bag of stakes when packing up.  I lost my metal stakes back 18
months ago when I was packing up in leaves on an AT hike.

BTW, I've been using 1/4 in diameter wood stakes since then--made from a
little sapling found along the way.  I pack them with the other loose
items in my blue "sports bucket." I used to fret that I would lose a
stake, and once spent 15 minutes looking for one that had been slung
through the woods.  Now, when I happen to misplace one, I just make a
new one at the next hangout. It takes all of maybe 30 seconds to
manufacture a new one.

Rick

Rat wrote:
> I just received my roll of Polypro webbing and was in the process of
> making new straps for the hammocks and traps when this idea hit me.
> Now that I use snakeskins on my hammocks I am always faced with the
> problem of storing my stakes. Rolling them up in the hammock scares
> me a little and having a separate place for them means I am always
> looking for them when I need them. So here is what I came up with.
> I doubled over a length of webbing and sewed it back to it's self
> creating a pocket. I insert the stakes in the pocket and the whole
> thing gets lashed to the tarp or hammock. The webbing is thick
> enough to not allow the stakes to puncture my tarp, and they are
> always with the gear that needs them. Here are the pixels.
> http://tinyurl.com/pnp2x
>
> BTW, I got a screaming deal on polypro webbing from here:
> http://tinyurl.com/krc4c
> It is rated a little less than Ed's, but I used it today and it held
> fine. I will be using it for three days this weekend, so I should
> know for sure after that.
>
> I also bought some of these to try the double ring suspension, I
> bought six. I didn't realise they were so BIG! They must weigh half
> a pound each! They do work however, but they will not be a part of
> my hammock system. BTW, I think they work because they are powder
> coated not polished. So for those of you who are trying to do this
> maybe you can find some, or have some, powder coated.
> http://tinyurl.com/zgpzu
>
> Rat
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I've come to love using my underquilt (the JRB Nest). However, we're
reaching that time of year here in Nova Scotia where the quilt alone
isn't warm enough underneath. Adding a pad seems like such a
compromise - yes, I've become a quilt-snob.

As it happens, I can get a winter weight (-12C) down (800) mummy
sleeping bag for a very very good price. I took a good look at it and
if the hood was removed (perhaps turned into a separate clothing
item), the foot box was opened up, the zippers cut (but taping left
intact) and attachment straps added... it looks as though it could
easily be converted to a very suitable underquilt. It doesn't appear
that there'd be alot of excess bag (and therefore unnecessary
weight/bulk).

What makes this option worth thinking about is that I can get lots of
insulation, in quality down and, at the moment, at a better price than
anything else I'm aware of.

Anyone tried this and if so, how did it work out? Any reactions or
suggestions?

Jim

Hi, first, I am new here. Second, I contemplated a similar approach, but decided
to start out simple. I have been hammocking for over a year in an ENO Double,
but wanted to go a little lighter and more custom.

What I have done is made a ZHammock and matching SPE. However, with my SPE, I
started with an army surplus poncho liner and then sewed pockets into it to
support a full length pad, an additional 14" pad (i'm 6'4", my son is 6'6"), and
8 pockets for wings up to 8" wide, or extra thick. I figure that this gives me a
maximum of flexibility, and additional warmth. In the past I have simply wrapped
the pocho liner around the pad, but that doesn't last through the night, but I
do know it is a good combo.

I have just about finished a matching tarp as well...just have to do the tie
outs tonight. The final project I have been working on is a gearskin. I have a
little more work to do on the shoulder straps and then add the the hardware and
it will be done. Right now, it weighs in at 24oz.

Tod


----- Original Message ----
From: tim garner <slowhike@...>
To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 6:30:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Re: douple hammock / S.P.E.



  jonas4321 <jonas4321@juno. com> wrote:    .Tim-

  Cool idea. I am concerned about putting stitching in the body of a
  hammock, but since all of the hammocks I have made are double-bottom
  (Risk's ZHammock design), I would be more comfortable if the stitching
  was only in the top layer, leaving the bottom layer un-perforated. Use
  1.1oz ripstop for both layers, but sew a third partial layer of
  pouches for the DAM (or other pad) and the insulating pad segments. I
  made my own SPE-type thingie for winter camping, but keeping it
  centered in the hammock whilst getting in and out was a little tricky,
  particularly with the DAM making me ride a lot higher inside. Sewing
  the pockets directly in the top layer would eliminate shifting but
  still give the benefits of a SPE. When pads weren't needed, the
  pouches would simply remain empty.

  I like the artistic work! Nice use of color!

  Jonas

  ### thanks jonas...  yep i`ve had that same problem w/ keeping the SPE in
place.
     mabey ed & dave will go into the production mode :~)   ...tim

  Yahoo! Groups Links

  don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


  ------------ --------- --------- ---
  Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates
starting at 1ΒΆ/min.

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The important factors in using down as an underquilt in cold
temperatures (my experience) are:
- finding a way to not compress the outer fabric against the down so
that it compresses the down and decreases the amount of insulation
- finding a way to make sure that the down is against the bottom of the
hammock (finding a way to eliminate an air compartment between the down
and the hammock)

I have not found a way of doing that without using the surface of the
hammock as the top surface of the down enclosing space.

Rick

gtvlfed wrote:
> I've come to love using my underquilt (the JRB Nest). However, we're
> reaching that time of year here in Nova Scotia where the quilt alone
> isn't warm enough underneath. Adding a pad seems like such a
> compromise - yes, I've become a quilt-snob.
>
> As it happens, I can get a winter weight (-12C) down (800) mummy
> sleeping bag for a very very good price. I took a good look at it and
> if the hood was removed (perhaps turned into a separate clothing
> item), the foot box was opened up, the zippers cut (but taping left
> intact) and attachment straps added... it looks as though it could
> easily be converted to a very suitable underquilt. It doesn't appear
> that there'd be alot of excess bag (and therefore unnecessary
> weight/bulk).
>
> What makes this option worth thinking about is that I can get lots of
> insulation, in quality down and, at the moment, at a better price than
> anything else I'm aware of.
>
> Anyone tried this and if so, how did it work out? Any reactions or
> suggestions?
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Agree with what Risk said - those are the difficulties, and the best
way I've found to overcome them is an insulated hammock.  But then you
lose some flexibility to adjust for temps, that the underquilt
preserves, if that's important for you.  I think both probably have
their places depending on conditions.

I don't remember who has made an underquilt from a down bag, but
Patrick made his first KAQ prototype from a synthetic TNF bag.  He put
pics at whiteblaze.net and he's on this list.

Jeff

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Rick <ra1@...> wrote:
>
> The important factors in using down as an underquilt in cold
> temperatures (my experience) are:
> - finding a way to not compress the outer fabric against the down so
> that it compresses the down and decreases the amount of insulation
> - finding a way to make sure that the down is against the bottom of the
> hammock (finding a way to eliminate an air compartment between the down
> and the hammock)
>
> I have not found a way of doing that without using the surface of the
> hammock as the top surface of the down enclosing space.


Thanks Rick & Jeff, both sets of comments are helpful. And it's true
that the more insulation, the greater the tendancy to sag away from
the hammock bottom... or overtighten and compress the down.

I failed to mention the I'm working with a HH and do like the idea of
the flexibility to change of remove the underquilt to match conditions.

Just a thought, is it feasible to have a series of attachment
mechanisms (ie. ties) sewn to the bottom of a HH that would match up
with ties/grommets on the topside of the underquilt so that it could
be held close and not compress... regardless of the weight of the
occupant?

Jim

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "gtvlfed" <jneale@...> wrote:
> Just a thought, is it feasible to have a series of attachment
> mechanisms (ie. ties) sewn to the bottom of a HH that would match up
> with ties/grommets on the topside of the underquilt so that it could
> be held close and not compress... regardless of the weight of the
> occupant?

Yes.  Hammock Hanger on TrailForums (and sometimes no whiteblaze) made
one like that.  I don't know how adjustable it is for the weight of
the occupant, but she sewed tabs onto the HH to match her underquilt
tabs.  A simple cordlock would make it adjustable.

Another idea is to run elastic or shockcord inside the top shell.  For
synthetic, just put the quilting loops around the shockcord and it'll
help pull the top layer against the hammock w/o compressing the
insulation.  Haven't tested to see if it's worth the weight, though.

Jeff

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "juskhoved" <juskhoved@...> wrote:
>
> Because finding love is tough enough, dating services especially for
> horselovers and their admirers are a beautiful niche to find.
>
> http://www.freewebs.com/equestriandating/
>


I hate trail horses.  They poop in the trail while I go way off in the
woods, they muck up the trails (Cataloochee esp) and they have no
since of lightweight techniques.  I know they are only horses, but
it's just unnecissary to carry that 240lb man and 60 lbs of gear for a
horse to survive in the woods, and those metal horse shoes are
definatley not weight efficient, although some weight is saved and
breathability gained my nailing them to your feet istead of having
straps or uppers to keep the shoes on.  They can't even use hammocks,
poor things.  This is definatley a post more for backpacking light
than hammock camping.  Poor horses need to see the light.

-David

Rat,

thanks a lot mate! Great idea!!. Have been annoyed by the idea of losing,
puncturing etc. too. This looks like a good solution if I stick to metal
stakes.

Like Rick, I prefer the idea of wooden stakes, made on trail but sometimes I
"need" metal stakes for my cooker setup (wood, alcy, esbit) as well (those
are two separate words aren't they?) as tarp/hammock stakes. Your idea has
been added to my to do list... ouch thanx a lot for that too ;-)

Grtz Johan

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most
intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

--
mob: +31 6 44 80 82 63
email: gonewalkabout2003@...

http://www.geocities.com/johanvandijk
http://calendar.yahoo.com/johanvandijk
--


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rat:

Can you specify which weight and width you got? I got some lightweight 1"
polypro in olive drab (how stealthy!) but it seemed quite a bit stretchier than
Ed's strapping.

Bear


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pan wrote:
"Sorry for the delayed response...have been away from this site for a
couple of days.

My post was in response to my perceived belief that you felt
hammocks were heavy or at least heavier than your bivi set up. The
stock BUL and SS system you chose is heavier than some other HH and
several other hammocks. There are posts on Whiteblaze.net that
probably have 30-40 responses of different hammock set ups, many in
the 3-3.5 pound range for hammocks , tarps and bottoms insulation
adequate for 30-35 degree use.To answer you question on specific
alternative the HH Hyperlight will shave 10 oz from the BUL
approach, Speer models can come in lighter depending on material.
(personally Iuse a HH ELR without the fly, 8x8, w STL and 2 ti UL
stakes , A JRB Nest under quilt w/Suspension system and it come to
exactly 48 os.) Others are lighter, Carol Crooker on BPL hammocked
in the 5 pound challege last year with her entire base pack under 5
pounds.

Looking over your post above, it appears that you are carrying 12 oz
or so of alternative gear, blue pad, space blanket, tyvek,funnels,
and also a line level...this makes your set up appear almost a pound
heavier."

=============================================================

Thanks, Pan.  Ditto about delayed response; my wife and I just
finished hiking around Mt. Rainier on the Wonderland Trail (about 100
miles of all up-and-down).   Sharing a tent, as my wife hasn't
converted, so I was back to dirt camping!

When I responded to you last time, I hadn't realized you were a gear
maker (JacksRBetter); I really appreciate folks like you and Ed and
others that respond to us gear *users*!

One thing that struck me in your suggested 2.5 to 3 pound range was
just simple math: my Hennessy Ultralight Backpacker is listed on the
Hennessy site as 1 pound 15 ounces.  Your JRB Nest is listed at 20
ounces, plus another ounce for the stuff sack and I think another
ounce for the suspension system (?  based on backpackgeartest review).
  Those items then alone sum to 53 ounces --- 3.3 pounds ... that's
without including stakes to hold the sides out, or longer straps
(necessary in the NW).

I could have saved 7 oz (or maybe 10 depending on which HH specs you
read ...) by going with the hyperlite instead of ultralight; the
hyperlight is very new, however, and I generally prefer to let other
pioneers get the arrows in their backs <g>.  If I were willing to pay
more for a hammock that I would guess would wear out faster, I could
indeed get that down to 2 pounds 14 ounces --- more like right at the
3 pound edge of your suggested range with necessary stakes and longer
straps (funnels optional at less than an ounce).

It looks to me that at this point I could save maybe 9 ounces over
what I'm doing now (without buying a new hammock) by replacing my
supershelter + foam pad + space blanket with a JRB nest, at the cost
of $240 more, but with hopefully a more comfortable and consistently
warm sleep --- assuming any underquilt will be sufficiently draft-free
(i.e., that gaps between underquilt and hammock body don't lose me the
warm dead air I need).   And that I could keep the thing dry enough in
the pacific northwest to keep me reliably warm.  And that I never had
to pitch the hammock on the ground.

Come late fall or winter I'll try out some options with my
supershelter first, and if I just can't make that reasonably work in
lower temps, I might indeed become another JRB customer!  Or maybe a
KAQ customer, accepting more weight for a synthetic that hopefully
would keep me warm even if wet (?).

I was interested in the setup that you mentioned above, and wonder if
you could expand a couple of the abbreviations (please):

"HH ELR without the fly, 8x8, w STL and 2 ti UL stakes , A JRB Nest
under quilt w/Suspension system" that you said comes out to exactly 48
ounces.

HH ELR is what?  The Hennessy Explorer Ultralight A-Sym is listed at 2
pounds 7 ounces (39 ounces), so that can't be it, unless you're
somehow saving a lot of weight on an alternate (but bigger?) fly.  I'm
not sure what an STL is; I presume 8x8 refers to some alternative fly
you're using.  ti UL stakes are likely light weight (ti == titanium)
stakes.

Again, I'm truly not meaning to be critical or negative or anything,
just trying to understand --- if a JRB nest with stuff sack and
suspension system is 22 ounces, then 48 - 22 = 26 ounces for your
hammock with alternate fly and stakes.   That might work if ELR is a
strange abbreviation for Hyperlite ...


       Brian Lewis

Thanks for the feedback, Joe.  I sure wish I had read more here and
elsewhere before going with the Supershelter; if you or others have
tips (I hope you'll be experimenting more too), I'll eagerly read and
try 'em.  I think that before I send more money to HH I'll see if I
can't find some local source of open-celled-foam.  Two pieces of such
foam have a lot of friction so I would expect a piece put on top of
the foam that came with the supershelter would stay put without more
cordage, or maybe just a little velcro or something.

I'm not sure that "hip and torso" pads are exactly what I need.  My
feet got cold; I'd definitely try to add some foam at the foot end.
Yes to "Hips" (I'd say "butt"), as that's where a lot of pressure is
--- asym or not, that part sags down some.  At $30 and 5.5 ounces
more, I might indeed just end up ordering a second underpad.  A little
frustrating to have to guess at all of this.

Spare clothing doesn't work for me; as a trying-to-be-light hiker, I
have darned few pieces of "spare" clothing, especially on a cold
night.  When it's cold I'll be wearing (in the hammock) both my
lighter and heavier pairs of outer socks, warm hat,
sweater/fleece/whatever (I use a Montbell UL Thermawrap) --- this
allows me to camp with a darned light sleeping bag (20 ounces).  About
all I have for "spare clothes" at that point are a change of underwear
and spare liner socks plus thin mittens.   Which I use in my sleeping
bag stuff sack under my neck (all the pillow I need).

I can't help but think that maybe I'm just doing something
fundamentally wrong with the supershelter; I'm not a person that needs
a really warm bed at night.  But there doesn't seem to be much room to
misinterpret how to assemble and use the supershelter system, and it
all looks right.   Dunno.

If I figure anything out this fall/winter when I do some at-home
testing, I'll certainly post my results.



           Brian Lewis



--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Joe" <jingram01@...> wrote:
>
> Brian, I too had become dissatisfied with sleeping on a CCF pad
> inside my hammock. After a lot of reading and contemplation about the
> various insulation systems which would fit my HH, I ordered the HH
> undercover/pad, so I read with interest your thread on the HH system
> tonight. I am not sure it will keep me warm to the temperatures I may
> want to camp in, but I am likewise unsure about the other systems. I
> have read both good and bad reviews of the HH system's insulating
> ability. I have also read some good and bad reviews for both the JRB
> and the KAQ (the other systems I was contemplating) and don't in any
> way mean to knock them. I finally decided that the only way to know
> if it would work for me was to give it a try.
>
> The factors that influenced me to select the HH was the ability to
> leave the system attached when packing, which eliminates the need to
> adjust it every night, the weight (13 ounces), and also the cost of
> the system (I'm cheap).
>
> Before ordering the system I called and talked with Tom Hennessy
> about a few questions I had. One of my questions was if it was
> possible to add a second pad without compressing it too much if one
> pad was not sufficient to get down to the temperatures I wanted to
> reach. Tom expressed his belief that using a single pad, space
> blanket and spare clothing would work for most people, but said that
> using two pads would work if needed. He also mentioned that he does
> still have hip and torso pads available, which would be lighter, less
> bulky, and less expensive than a second pad. He is considering adding
> them to his web site as optional items. But, even adding another
> complete pad, the total weight of the system would only be 18.5
> ounces with a total cost under $155, so I am willing to experiment
> with it.
>
> If you develop any methods that you find improve your comfort range,
> please post them. I would be interested in hearing about them.
>

Tried my first real hike with the hammock. I used a 6X8 Silnylon tarp
from campmor strung diagonally from corner to corner over triptease
and 2 corner tieouts. Used my sleeping bag (cats meow) without any
underpad. The nights got down to 50° including one on the Lake
Superior north shore. 1 night of rain. It was great and I stayed dry.
Ialso didn't have any of the "cold-spot" problems that I haveread so
often here. Now I ask myself, why do I have a tent?

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Rat" <hogn8r2004@...> wrote:

> I doubled over a length of webbing and sewed it back to it's self
> creating a pocket. I insert the stakes in the pocket and the whole
> thing gets lashed to the tarp or hammock. The webbing is thick
> enough to not allow the stakes to puncture my tarp,...

Great idea!  I currently use a piece of garden hose about a 1/2"
longer than the Hennessy stakes.  I insert all the stakes inside the
hose and the tight fit, along with the curved end of the stakes, keeps
them all in place.  The points of the stake are short of the end of
the hose...complete protection from punctures.

But I think your pocket idea is a lighter weight idea...which makes it
an idea I really like.  :)

john

Hi
I have completly done away with tent camping and use my hammock all
the time.  I have a HH explorer Delux Asym, with the larger Hex Fly.
I allways have 2 trecking poles with me, 4 extra guy ropes and 4
stakes, so I can pitch my hammock as a tent on the ground, using the
trecking poles.  I used a $2 shop plastic poncho for a ground sheet,
last time I had to do this, when there was no trees available.
Im into lightweigh hiking, and am in New Zealand.  Lots of rain any
time of the year over here, I find I stay dryer in my hammock in
heavy rain than sleeping in my tents, as my tents condensate to much
and get damp floors quickly. I usually take the larger Hex fly with
me, except I will take the smaller fly on 1 or 2 night trips when no
rain is forcast.
Any How hope you enjoy your Hammock Setup.
Cheers Heather


--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Neal" <nealaustin@...> wrote:
>
> Tried my first real hike with the hammock. I used a 6X8 Silnylon
tarp
> from campmor strung diagonally from corner to corner over triptease
> and 2 corner tieouts. Used my sleeping bag (cats meow) without any
> underpad. The nights got down to 50° including one on the Lake
> Superior north shore. 1 night of rain. It was great and I stayed
dry.
> Ialso didn't have any of the "cold-spot" problems that I haveread so
> often here. Now I ask myself, why do I have a tent?
>

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "gtvlfed" <jneale@...> wrote:
>
> --- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, Rick <ra1@> wrote:
> >
> > The important factors in using down as an underquilt in cold
> > temperatures (my experience) are:
> > - finding a way to not compress the outer fabric against the
down so
> > that it compresses the down and decreases the amount of
insulation
> > - finding a way to make sure that the down is against the bottom
of the
> > hammock (finding a way to eliminate an air compartment between
the down
> > and the hammock)
> >
> > I have not found a way of doing that without using the surface
of the
> > hammock as the top surface of the down enclosing space.
>
>
> Thanks Rick & Jeff, both sets of comments are helpful. And it's
true
> that the more insulation, the greater the tendancy to sag away from
> the hammock bottom... or overtighten and compress the down.
>
> I failed to mention the I'm working with a HH and do like the idea
of
> the flexibility to change of remove the underquilt to match
conditions.
>
> Just a thought, is it feasible to have a series of attachment
> mechanisms (ie. ties) sewn to the bottom of a HH that would match
up
> with ties/grommets on the topside of the underquilt so that it
could
> be held close and not compress... regardless of the weight of the
> occupant?
>
> Jim
>

FWIW, most of the JRB quilts have the mounting tabs for use as an
under quilt....they are designed to be doubled up as necessary for
weather below 30 degrees....many use their No Sniveller below their
Nest and a suitable winter bag from their old gear locker on
top...Or if weight is an issue, the ORM is a true winter quilt at 3+
inches of loft for a single layer...

Pan

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Lewis" <brianle@...>
wrote:
>
> Pan wrote:
> "Sorry for the delayed response...have been away from this site
for a
> couple of days.
>
> My post was in response to my perceived belief that you felt
> hammocks were heavy or at least heavier than your bivi set up. The
> stock BUL and SS system you chose is heavier than some other HH and
> several other hammocks. There are posts on Whiteblaze.net that
> probably have 30-40 responses of different hammock set ups, many in
> the 3-3.5 pound range for hammocks , tarps and bottoms insulation
> adequate for 30-35 degree use.To answer you question on specific
> alternative the HH Hyperlight will shave 10 oz from the BUL
> approach, Speer models can come in lighter depending on material.
> (personally Iuse a HH ELR without the fly, 8x8, w STL and 2 ti UL
> stakes , A JRB Nest under quilt w/Suspension system and it come to
> exactly 48 os.) Others are lighter, Carol Crooker on BPL hammocked
> in the 5 pound challege last year with her entire base pack under 5
> pounds.
>
> Looking over your post above, it appears that you are carrying 12
oz
> or so of alternative gear, blue pad, space blanket, tyvek,funnels,
> and also a line level...this makes your set up appear almost a
pound
> heavier."
>
> =============================================================
>
> Thanks, Pan.  Ditto about delayed response; my wife and I just
> finished hiking around Mt. Rainier on the Wonderland Trail (about
100
> miles of all up-and-down).   Sharing a tent, as my wife hasn't
> converted, so I was back to dirt camping!
>
> When I responded to you last time, I hadn't realized you were a
gear
> maker (JacksRBetter); I really appreciate folks like you and Ed and
> others that respond to us gear *users*!
>
> One thing that struck me in your suggested 2.5 to 3 pound range was
> just simple math: my Hennessy Ultralight Backpacker is listed on
the
> Hennessy site as 1 pound 15 ounces.  Your JRB Nest is listed at 20
> ounces, plus another ounce for the stuff sack and I think another
> ounce for the suspension system (?  based on backpackgeartest
review).
>  Those items then alone sum to 53 ounces --- 3.3 pounds ... that's
> without including stakes to hold the sides out, or longer straps
> (necessary in the NW).
>
> I could have saved 7 oz (or maybe 10 depending on which HH specs
you
> read ...) by going with the hyperlite instead of ultralight; the
> hyperlight is very new, however, and I generally prefer to let
other
> pioneers get the arrows in their backs <g>.  If I were willing to
pay
> more for a hammock that I would guess would wear out faster, I
could
> indeed get that down to 2 pounds 14 ounces --- more like right at
the
> 3 pound edge of your suggested range with necessary stakes and
longer
> straps (funnels optional at less than an ounce).
>
> It looks to me that at this point I could save maybe 9 ounces over
> what I'm doing now (without buying a new hammock) by replacing my
> supershelter + foam pad + space blanket with a JRB nest, at the
cost
> of $240 more, but with hopefully a more comfortable and
consistently
> warm sleep --- assuming any underquilt will be sufficiently draft-
free
> (i.e., that gaps between underquilt and hammock body don't lose me
the
> warm dead air I need).   And that I could keep the thing dry
enough in
> the pacific northwest to keep me reliably warm.  And that I never
had
> to pitch the hammock on the ground.
>
> Come late fall or winter I'll try out some options with my
> supershelter first, and if I just can't make that reasonably work
in
> lower temps, I might indeed become another JRB customer!  Or maybe
a
> KAQ customer, accepting more weight for a synthetic that hopefully
> would keep me warm even if wet (?).
>
> I was interested in the setup that you mentioned above, and wonder
if
> you could expand a couple of the abbreviations (please):
>
> "HH ELR without the fly, 8x8, w STL and 2 ti UL stakes , A JRB Nest
> under quilt w/Suspension system" that you said comes out to
exactly 48
> ounces.
>
> HH ELR is what?  The Hennessy Explorer Ultralight A-Sym is listed
at 2
> pounds 7 ounces (39 ounces), so that can't be it, unless you're
> somehow saving a lot of weight on an alternate (but bigger?) fly.
I'm
> not sure what an STL is; I presume 8x8 refers to some alternative
fly
> you're using.  ti UL stakes are likely light weight (ti ==
titanium)
> stakes.
>
> Again, I'm truly not meaning to be critical or negative or
anything,
> just trying to understand --- if a JRB nest with stuff sack and
> suspension system is 22 ounces, then 48 - 22 = 26 ounces for your
> hammock with alternate fly and stakes.   That might work if ELR is
a
> strange abbreviation for Hyperlite ...
>
>
>       Brian Lewis
>
  Brian,

Welcome back from your hike...condolances or the hard ground...least
you had great company.

HH ELR= HH Extreme Light Racer...the 20 oz racer that several of us
started using for all around backpacking....mine is in great shape
after 60 nights and many afternoons of set up ...test some gear ...
then tear down and repack etc...Medicine Man, frequent poster on
Whiteblaze.net, has had similiar experiance....this hammock minus
the fly of 7 oz or and including standard tree savers is 15
oz ....This hammock and its growing general purpose use by the UL
community is what led to the Hyper light....at $169 it is a lot less
money than the HL at $219...But you do get the little gear loft
pocket and a claim of more reliability for the HL (although they
both appear to have 1.1 oz nlyon bottoms). Believe it is an oz
lighter than the HL.

STL = Self Tensioning Lines...1 oz per pair of 9.5 foot lines.

8x8 = short hand for a JRB square tarp, no one else routinely makes
and sells this size,  with a diagonal center seam that fits most
regular length hammocks.. it weighs 9.4 oz (which is about 2 oz more
than a stock HH BULA fly).

Hope this helps.... big trees, requiring longer staps, obviously
will add proportionately ...save your short ones ...when you come
east they will be useful and save a little... :-)

Pan

Thanks, Pan.  The ELR ("Light Racer A-Sym" on the HH site) isn't
something I even considered; the text on the HH site puts "Recommended
for racing only" in bold text, says that durability is sacrificed for
weight, and that it has a limited one-year guarantee ... with the
majority of the text about it being those sorts of caveats ...

So I find it *very* interesting that you've already got 60 nights and
many test afternoons on yours and report that it's in great shape!


         Brian Lewis

Good idea, guys. May I suggest further evolution, what I have on my
MacCat tarp?

Make the stakes captive on the tie lines. I use Y stakes figuring
what good is a skewer in real wind. Line is just threaded through a
hole and knotted. Can't lose the stakes, they are always on the
tarp/fly.

Sew the stake pouch along or under a ridge line tab, and stuff the
stakes in there. I use tautline hitches on the free ends so I can
shorten the lines to the tie tabs and avoid tangles.

I use a full ridgeline tied to the end tabs, running underneath the
canopy of course, not for support, but so I can hang stuff off this
overhead ridgeline.

I put those unused HH snake skins on the tarp tie out lines, and
slide them over the whole thing, making a "fat ridge line" looking
like a real snake.

This whole package coils up in my pack ready to go, if I need rain
pro. Often I put it up over my Speer hammock and don't unfurl it.
It's just there, a fat rope overhead. I have the ridgeline under the
tarp outside the snake skins, so I can still hang gear off it. (Real
important, since anything loose in the hammock instantly migrates
underneath the human body.)

It weather comes in, just pull back the skins, yank the attached
stakes out of the pouch, stomp them in and tension it up. Done. This
takes as little thinking and rummaging through pack as possible. And
it's complete, nothing to add, lose, or forget. Perfecto for me. Very
important as this is literally survival gear, too.

Best, Todd in CC.

The link should take you to the exact webbing I bought. It is 1 1/4
inch wide, Black, and rated at 600 pounds. It is the lightweight poly
webbing that is on sale right now. I just returned from three days in
the hammocks (Me, Roz and Gage) and it held very well on all three
hammocks. It stretched a little initially but settled down nicely. I
didn't have time to pre-stretch them before we left, but it wasn't a
problem.

I am going to change the HH to webbing tho. I tried the Prusik knot
suspension this weekend, and while it held nicely and was easily
adjustable, it was a lot more complicated than just using a four wrap
knot. Plus I had to keep up with the Prusik Loops.

I may even put webbing on my Tarps to eliminate tree huggers from my
system all together. They are really a single use item anyway and if I
use straps I don't need them, or the aggrivation of keeping up with
them.

And, the Strap Stake Pockets worked great!
http://tinyurl.com/ozn4m
We had a great weekend and I did manage to get in some short hikes.

Rat


--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, "Chinell, David F \(GE Indust,
Security\)" <david.chinell@...> wrote:
>
> Rat:
>
> Can you specify which weight and width you got? I got some
lightweight 1" polypro in olive drab (how stealthy!) but it seemed
quite a bit stretchier than Ed's strapping.
>
> Bear
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Actually it is sewn into the tree-huggers for the tarps. But, since I
am thinking of getting rid of the tree-huggers they will be sewn into
the supprt straps for the tarps. They can just as easily be on the
hammock support tho.

Rat

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner <slowhike@...> wrote:
>
> i like the strap pocket rat... is that made onto the end of a
webbing that is the support on one end of your hammock?       ...tim

rat... i`m liking the attached stake bag. anything that helps keep stuff simple
& orginized at the same time is a good thing.  i think i like putting it on the
hammock support even better.
      BTW... i guess it`s ok that i looked at the rest of the 14 pictures from
your car camping trip.  i`m fixin to do a car camping trip w/ friends this
comming weekend.
     is that you eating the banana?

Rat <hogn8r2004@...> wrote:
   Actually it is sewn into the tree-huggers for the tarps. But, since I
am thinking of getting rid of the tree-huggers they will be sewn into
the supprt straps for the tarps. They can just as easily be on the
hammock support tho.

Rat

--- In hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com, tim garner wrote:
>
> i like the strap pocket rat... is that made onto the end of a
webbing that is the support on one end of your hammock? ...tim







Yahoo! Groups Links









don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the  new Yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

btw, I really like the Strap Stke Pockets....made two today, one for me, one for
my son.

Tod

----- Original Message ----
From: tim garner <slowhike@...>
To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 4, 2006 9:07:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Hammock Camping] Latest Brain Squeeze, Strap Stake Pockets.

                            rat... i`m liking the attached stake bag. anything
that helps keep stuff simple & orginized at the same time is a good thing.  i
think i like putting it on the hammock support even better.
       BTW... i guess it`s ok that i looked at the rest of the 14 pictures from
your car camping trip.  i`m fixin to do a car camping trip w/ friends this
comming weekend.
      is that you eating the banana?

  Rat <hogn8r2004@yahoo. com> wrote:
    Actually it is sewn into the tree-huggers for the tarps. But, since I
  am thinking of getting rid of the tree-huggers they will be sewn into
  the supprt straps for the tarps. They can just as easily be on the
  hammock support tho.

  Rat

  --- In hammockcamping@ yahoogroups. com, tim garner wrote:
  >
  > i like the strap pocket rat... is that made onto the end of a
  webbing that is the support on one end of your hammock? ...tim

  Yahoo! Groups Links

  don`t leave the CREATOR out of the creation!!!


  ------------ --------- --------- ---
  Get your email and more, right on the  new Yahoo.com

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just posted three new pictures, but I have no idea to which album. I also
posted them to MY album, "Bear's Pix."

They're all titled "Ring-and-toggle" is there any way you can find them and
remove them from the wrong folder?

Bear


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hangers:

I had a fabulous Labor Day weekend in own my back yard, experimenting with
dozens of ideas that have come to me while lazing about in sunny, forest
hammocks. I'll post two messages, this one to describe my new favorite hanging
system, and another to describe a new ring-adjustment technique.

As background, remember that I use tropical hammocks almost exclusively. By
"tropical hammock" I mean a one- or two-layer hammock with a casing in each end.
The hammock is hung by rope or webbing that runs through the casing. In my mind,
"tropical hammock" includes my favorite commercial brand, the Mosquito Hammock,
which also has an attached mosquito netting system.

Anyway, here's my latest evolution of a hanging system.

The hammock cord is replaced with a a two-foot length of cord tied into a closed
loop. The loop extends one foot beyond the end of the hammock. A 2-inch ring is
attached to this cord by a lark's head hitch. (This ring is optional. It serves
as a drip ring and minimizes wear on the hammock and tree ropes.)

The tree ropes are two twenty-foot lengths of 3/8-inch polypropylene rope with
braided sheath. Each has a loop tied in one end. A 2-inch ring is attached to
this loop by a lark's head hitch. (Again, the ring is optional. This one not
only saves rope wear, but makes it easier to build the rope " cradle.")

To hang the hammock, start by attaching the tree ropes.

Position the tree rope loop so it's pointing to the other tree. The tree rope
goes around the tree as you'd expect, but each time you get to the loop (or
ring), you pass the rope through the ring and reverse your winding direction.
This produces a " cradle" of rope that bears the entire load more evenly than
winding in one direction would.

When there are about three feet of rope left, stop winding, pass the bitter end
through the tree rope ring one last time, then loop the bitter end through the
hammock rope loop or ring. Tie the bitter end back onto the tree rope with a
taut-line hitch. This hitch won't bear any load. It's temporary -- for initial
adjustments only. Do the same for the other end.

Adjust the hammock by sliding the taut-line hitches. When you get the right
position, replace the taut-line hitches with Hennessey hitches around the
hammock ring.

That's it. The benefits of this method are ones I've sought for a long time.

1. My hammock/drip rings are always in the same place -- under my tarp, so no
rain can fall directly on them or on the hammock ropes. (I use an 8-foot square
tarp on the diagonal, so the length from corner to corner is about 11 feet.)

2. All the adjustment for tree diameter and spacing is handled by the tree
ropes.

3. I can fiddle with centering and tension without having to undo and redo too
many knots.

4. It can all be done with just cord and knots (but the rings make it better).

I tried the same system with 1-inch polypro webbing, and it works just as well
that way.

Bear




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hangers:

Here's part two of my weekend experiments.

Years ago, I started using the double-ring method in an attempt to get easy
adjustment without untying and retying knots. Later, I decided to make the rings
serve as drip rings as well, but I couldn't always put the rings in the same
location every time with respect to my tarp (i.e. under it).

Still the method isn't too shabby, and I'm gratified that some of you are able
to use it to good effect.

This weekend, I was experimenting with a way to keep the bitter end of the strap
aligned so it wouldn't slide off to the side and let the webbing slip. I
discovered a new system that's a mystery to me. I mean why it works is a mystery
-- but it works. There are photos in my folder, Bear's Pix. They're titled
"ring-and-toggle."

Here's a description. All the rings I used were 2-inch outside diameter, but I'm
pretty sure any size will do. In fact, I did a couple of versions with an oval
carabiner in place of a ring.

I use hammocks with casings in both ends. To start, I replaced the supplied
hammock cord with a two-foot cord tied in a loop through the casing. To this I
attach a ring using a lark's head hitch. This puts my hammock ring / drip ring
at a constant distance of one foot from the hammock end, no matter how far apart
the trees are.

My tree ropes for this experiment were two twenty-foot lengths of 1-inch
polypropylene webbing. These have a loop tied in one end. I also attach a ring
to this loop, using a lark's head hitch.

To hang the hammock, you start by attaching your tree ropes however you prefer.
The tree ropes handle all the variations of tree diameter and separation. You
just stop wrapping the tree when you have three or four feet (however much you
need to reach the hammock and still have at least a foot of webbing to spare).

Pass the bitter end through the hammock ring and pull it back along the standing
run. (The two sections of tree webbing are going to lie on top of each other in
the end.)

When it's at the right spot, place a ring on top of the webbing, reach through
and pull up a loop of the double-thickness of webbing (both the standing run and
the bitter run). Insert a toggle through the loop, and let the webbing pull the
toggle down onto the ring. Square and align everything.

That's it.

I was just trying to improvise a ladder buckle to position the bitter end, but
for fun I tested my weight on it. I was astonished to find that it held my
weight with utterly no slippage (and no chance of misaligned webbing).

Additional notes:

I suppose what I'm making with the ring and toggle is a form of ladder buckle,
and that makes me wonder if a standard ladder buckle would do the same job.

In the pictures, you're looking at a three-inch length of 1/4-inch diameter
aluminum rod. I started off using 3/8-inch doweling, and that worked fine too,
though it put serious dents in the dowels where they rested on the ring. So I
just cut up some metal rod I had handy.

The parts are troublesome to keep track of. I'd like to find a rod with a hole
through it and tie it to the ring, so there's one less thing to juggle.

Toggle stick only - knotless knot

Loooong ago I discovered a way to tie my tropical hammock using no hardware,
just a toggle stick. There's a diagram of that in my Bear's Pix folder too. It
requires a long loop of webbing through the casing -- but that's how most
tropical hammocks ship, anyway.

As the diagram shows, you need a separate tree rope or tree webbing. The bitter
end of the loop from the hammock rope goes up through the tree rope, down along
the standing run. When it's adjusted, you reach through the bitter end loop,
pull up the two strands of the standing run, and insert a toggle under them. To
keep the toggle from sliding up towards the tree, you throw a loop of the
standing run over both sides of the toggle.

There. That's my weekend.

Bear


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rat:

Maybe that explains it -- the difference between 1 and 1-1/4 inch
width. And now that I've got my straps a little stretched out, they do
seem more stable.

Bear

Bear,



You evidently put them in the doublehammock\SPE folder.



Tim

________________________________

From: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Chinell, David F
(GE Indust, Security)
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 1:04 PM
To: hammockcamping@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Hammock Camping] Moderator -- help!



I just posted three new pictures, but I have no idea to which album. I
also posted them to MY album, "Bear's Pix."

They're all titled "Ring-and-toggle" is there any way you can find them
and remove them from the wrong folder?

Bear

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]