For those of you who don't know, 518-457-2627 is the phone number of
the New York State Police Firearms Office, & all replies are in
chronological order!!:
************************************************************
From Alan Cox Wed Mar 1 12:12:42 2006
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 12:12:42 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan Cox" <alan_r_coxa@...>
Subject: New York State Handgun Laws For Non-Residents
To: PISTOLPT@..., nyspmail@...
CC: "Alan Cox" <alan_r_coxa@...>

I was just informed by a lady at 518-457-2627 that a non-resident can
bring a handgun into the State of New York to go to a recognized
shooting match for a period of up to 48-hours provided that the non-
resident has proof of entry into the shooting match according to
Section 265.20 of the NY State Penal Law. Is that correct??
------------------------------------------------------------
From NYSP General Email Wed Mar 1 12:27:17 2006
Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 15:27:17 -0500
From: "NYSP General Email" <NyspMail@...>
To: "Alan Cox" <alan_r_coxa@...>
Subject: Re: New York State Handgun Laws For Non-Residents

It's essentially correct. The law stipulates that an out-of-state
resident can transport a handgun into New York for use in an NRA-
sanctioned shooting match. The owner should ensure he or she has in
his/her possession documentation to establish the legitimacy of the
intended use. The interval and route by which the owner may transport
the out-of-state handgun should be direct and continuous, however. In
other words, one can stop for gas or a bathroom break on route, for
example, but there's no provision in the law that would permit one to
stay overnight with it en route. The law also says the gun must be
unloaded and stored in a lockable, opaque storage container -- but
not in the glove compartment -- separate from its ammunition, and, if
at all possible, not in the passenger compartment. If you plan to
drive in a pickup truck, obviously, there is no such compartment, so
the best alternative place would be behind or under the seat.
------------------------------------------------------------
From Alan Cox Wed Mar 1 19:28:47 2006
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 19:28:47 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan Cox" <alan_r_coxa@...>
Subject: RE[2]: New York State Handgun Laws For Non-Residents
To: "NYSP General Email" <NyspMail@...>,
PISTOLPT@...
CC: <SNIP>

#1. Thank-you very much for your prompt reply!!

#2. Evidently though, from what you said about "no provision in the
law that would permit one to stay overnight with it en route", the
lady that I talked to at 518-457-2627 was wrong about the allowable
period of time being up to 48-hours, & that would necessarily make it
illegal to go to any shooting match that was longer than 1 day?? In
the case of a 2-day shooting match, would it be illegal for an out-of-
state resident to spend the night at the site of the match, or the
closest motel/hotel as long as the total time was not greater than 48
hours?? Do you know why the lady at 518-457-2627 mentioned a period
of 48 hours?? Would it be illegal to take a nap at a rest-stop or a
truck-stop??

#3. Also, the lady that I talked to at 518-457-2627 said that the
shooting match didn't necessarily have to be sponsored by the N.R.A.

#4. What about matches sponsored by the IDPA, because they've got 5
affiliated clubs in New York??:
IDPA <http://www.idpa.com>
IDPA New York <http://www.idpa.com/clublist.asp?state=NY>

#5. What about matches sponsored by the USPCA, because they've got
approximately 16 affiliated clubs in New York??:
USPCA <http://www.uspsa.org>
USPCA Area 7 including New York: <http://www.uspsa7.org>

#6. Rob Boudrie, since you're the Area 7 Director for the USPCA,
exactly how many USPCA affiliated clubs are there in New York, & do
you have any other comments about the email above?? I counted 12
clubs in the Eastern Lakes Section, & 4 clubs in the Metro East
Section for a total of 16 clubs. Is that correct?? Also, do you ever
have any 2-day shooting matches, or are they all only 1-day matches??

#7. To Whom-It-May-Concern at the IDPA, do you ever have any 2-day
matches??

#8. Thomas H. King, does the N.R.A. ever have any 2-day matches??
Also, are any of your clubs also affiliated with the IDPA &/or the
USPCA??

#9. Finally, when I first called 518-457-2627, I was initially told
that an out-of-state resident could only bring a hand-gun into New
York as part of a non-stop journey as covered by federal law. After
that, I explicitly asked if there was any way for an out-of-state
resident to take a hand-gun to a shooting match, & then the lady said
that she would have to talk to somebody else, & then only after
several minutes later, did she finally tell me what I've related
above!!

#10. Does anybody else have any other comments on this email??

#11. J. Scott Kappas, Esq., I have a copy of the 2004 edition of
your "Traveler's Guide to the Firearm Laws of the Fifty States", &
overall, I think that it's very good, but I did notice that your book
doesn't mention anything about the rights of an out-of-state resident
to take a hand-gun to a shooting match in New York. Does your 2006
edition mention anything about that?? Also, although your 2004 book
correctly says that New Jersey only gives concealed carry permits to
out-of-state residents on a highly discretionary basis to people with
a "compelling" need, it fails to say that out-of-state residents can
also apply for a firearm identification card which will allow them to
transport weapons in New Jersey in vehicles, & that it's much easier
for an out-of-state resident to get a firearm identification card
than a concealed carry permit!! Call the following number for
details:
New Jersey State Police Firearms Office: 609-882-2000-Ext.2060
Website: <http://www.njsp.org/index.html>
New Jersey State Police, P.O. Box 7068, West Trenton, NJ 08628
Anyway, as I said before, I think that your book, which you advertise
at the following website, is very good overall, & I would recommend
it to anybody:
<http://www.gunlawguide.com>

#12. The best website on gun laws that I've seen is:
<http://www.packing.org>

Alan Cox
------------------------------------------------------------
From Rob Boudrie Wed Mar 1 20:03:40 2006
From: "Rob Boudrie" <rob@...>
To: "Alan Cox" <alan_r_coxa@...>
CC: "Ron Speicher" <rspeiche@...>,
burban@..., "J. Scott Kappas, Esq."
<gunlaw@...>, "J. Scott Kappas, Esq." <gunlaws@...>
Subject: Re: RE[2]: New York State Handgun Laws For Non-Residents
Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 23:03:40 -0500

Alan -
With the usual disclaimer about not being a lawyer. I don't know if
he is still with the firearms unit, but I spoke with Sgt. Sherman of
the NYSP at the number you list several years ago and found him most
helpful. The best book on NY gun laws I know of is the one written by
attorney Jeffrey Chaimberlain and Lt. Lee O. Thomas (NYSP, ret.) and
published by <http://www.looseleaflaw.com>. Attorney Kappas has
written
what is the definitive book on a national level, however, the NY book
runs several hundred pages and was written by a retired NY State
Police officer and a member of the NY bar, so it is not surprising
that this NY specific book goes into a bit more detail. If you buy
it, sign up for the annual updates (about $13/year).

I refer you to NY Penal code 265.20 Paragraph 13, which includes the
+/- 48 hour window which you referred to (I have added the red color
to idenfity the relevant clause). 265.20 is "exemptions" and each
numbered paragraph covers a different sub-topic.

13. Possession of pistols and revolvers by a person who is a
nonresident of this state while attending or traveling to or from, an
organized competitive pistol match or league competition under
auspices of, or approved by, the National Rifle Association and in
which he is a competitor, within forty-eight hours of such event or
by a person who is a non-resident of the state while attending or
traveling to or from an organized match sanctioned by the
International Handgun Metallic Silhouette Association and in which he
is a competitor, within forty-eight hours of such event, provided
that he has not been previously convicted of a felony or a crime
which, if committed in New York, would constitute a felony, and
further provided that the pistols or revolvers are transported
unloaded in a locked opaque container together with a copy of the
match program, match schedule or match registration card. Such
documentation shall constitute prima facie evidence of exemption,
providing that such person also has in his possession a pistol
license or firearms registration card issued in accordance with the
laws of his place of residence. For purposes of this subdivision, a
person licensed in a jurisdiction which does not authorize such
license by a person who has been previously convicted of a felony
shall be presumed to have no prior conviction. The superintendent of
state police shall annually review the laws of jurisdictions within
the United States and Canada with respect to the applicable
requirements for licensing or registration of firearms and shall
publish a list of those jurisdictions which prohibit possession of a
firearm by a person previously convicted of a felony or crimes which
if committed in New York state would constitute a felony.

The USPSA club list at http://www.uspsa.org is current as of 2/10/06,
and is updated monthly. The NRA does recognize USPSA matches, and I
have a letter to that effect. The best practice is for a match to
provide competitors with an individually addressed written
confirmation, and include a copy of 265.20(13) they can keep with the
gun. Although USPSA has had matches in NY which span several days,
competitors generally complete their shooting in a single day.

Rob Boudrie -- USPSA Area 7 Director -- <rob@...>
------------------------------------------------------------
From Alan Cox Thu Mar 2 00:44:29 2006
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 00:44:29 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan Cox" <alan_r_coxa@...>
Subject: RE[3]: New York State Handgun Laws For Non-Residents
To: "NYSP General Email" <NyspMail@...>,
PISTOLPT@...
CC: <SNIP>

#1. To Whom-It-May-Concern at the New York State Police:
According to Paragraph 13 of Section 265.20 of the NY State Penal Law
which Rob Boudrie has reproduced above, isn't the 48-hour window +/-,
or the total time would be 48 hours before the shooting match until
48 hours after the match?? If this is true, wouldn't this allow for
someone to spend the night someplace if the location was on a direct
route?? Also, would New York recognize a pistol permit from Indiana??

#2. Does anyone know if the NRA or the IHMSA recognizes IPDA shooting
matches??

Alan Cox
------------------------------------------------------------
From Alan Cox Thu Mar 2 09:37:47 2006
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 09:37:47 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan Cox" <alan_r_coxa@...>
Subject: RE[4]: New York State Handgun Laws For Non-Residents
To: "NYSP General Email" <NyspMail@...>,
PISTOLPT@...
CC: <SNIP>

From Jacob J. Rieper, Legislative Director Thu Mar 2 04:30:10 2006
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 07:30:10 -0500
To: "Alan Cox" <alan_r_coxa@...>
From: "Jacob J. Rieper, Legislative Director" <jrieper@...>
Subject: RE[2]: New York State Handgun Laws For Non-Residents

Alan Cox wrote:
#2. Evidently though, from what you said about "no provision in the
law that would permit one to stay overnight with it en route", the
lady that I talked to at 518-457-2627 was wrong about the allowable
period of time being up to 48-hours, & that would necessarily make it
illegal to go to any shooting match that was longer than 1 day?? In
the case of a 2-day shooting match, would it be illegal for an out-of-
state resident to spend the night at the site of the match, or the
closest motel/hotel as long as the total time was not greater than 48
hours?? Do you know why the lady at 518-457-2627 mentioned a period
of 48 hours?? Would it be illegal to take a nap at a rest-stop or a
truck-stop??

Jacob J. Rieper wrote:
There's no 48-hour time period. Go to the Assembly webpage. Click
under Bill Search, then New York State Laws. It's under Penal Law,
Section 265.20, Exemptions.

Alan Cox wrote:
Why does Paragraph 13 of Section 265.20 of the NY State Penal Law
mention a time-period of 48 hours??
----------
Alan Cox wrote:
#3. Also, the lady that I talked to at 518-457-2627 said that the
shooting match didn't necessarily have to be sponsored by the N.R.A.

Jacob J. Rieper wrote:
Yes. It must be sanctioned by NRA.

Alan Cox wrote:
Was Rob Boudrie, USPSA Area 7 Director, wrong when he said that "The
NRA does recognize USPSA matches, and I have a letter to that
effect."?? Also, why does Paragraph 13 of Section 265.20 of the NY
State Penal Law explicitly recognize IHMSA [International Handgun
Metallic Silhouette Association] matches??
----------
Alan Cox wrote:
#4. What about matches sponsored by the IDPA, because they've got 5
affiliated clubs in New York??:

Jacob J. Rieper wrote:
And zero political clout. It's NRA only.

Alan Cox wrote:
Again, was Rob Boudrie, USPSA Area 7 Director, wrong when he said
that "The NRA does recognize USPSA matches, and I have a letter to
that effect."?? Again, why does Paragraph 13 of Section 265.20 of
the NY State Penal Law explicitly recognize IHMSA [International
Handgun Metallic Silhouette Association] matches??
----------
Alan Cox wrote:
#5. What about matches sponsored by the USPCA, because they've got
approximately 16 affiliated clubs in New York??:

Jacob J. Rieper wrote: Nope.

Alan Cox wrote:
Again, was Rob Boudrie, USPSA Area 7 Director, wrong when he said
that "The NRA does recognize USPSA matches, and I have a letter to
that effect."??
----------
Alan Cox wrote:
#8. Thomas H. King, does the N.R.A. ever have any 2-day matches??
Also, are any of your clubs also affiliated with the IDPA &/or the
USPCA??

Jacob J. Rieper wrote:
There's no time period. I believe some of our club affiliates are
also connected with IDPA

Alan Cox wrote:
Again, Why does Paragraph 13 of Section 265.20 of the NY State Penal
Law mention a time-period of 48 hours??
----------
Alan Cox wrote:
#9. Finally, when I first called 518-457-2627, I was initially told
that an out-of-state resident could only bring a hand-gun into New
York as part of a non-stop journey as covered by federal law.

Jacob J. Rieper wrote:
That's the federal Firearm Owners Protection Act.

Jacob J. Rieper, Legislative Director
New York State Rifle & Pistol Association
<http://www.nysrpa.org> <http://www.rpa-pac.org>
Yahoo! Messenger ID: nyrkba
------------------------------------------------------------
From Alan Cox Thu Mar 2 10:26:25 2006
Thu, 02 Mar 2006 10:26:25 PST
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 10:26:25 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan Cox" <alan_r_coxa@...>
Subject: RE[5]: New York State Handgun Laws For Non-Residents
To: "NYSP General Email" <NyspMail@...>,
PISTOLPT@...
CC: <SNIP>

From Jacob J. Rieper, Legislative Director Thu Mar 2 09:46:15 2006
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 12:46:15 -0500
To: "Alan Cox" <alan_r_coxa@...>
From: "Jacob J. Rieper, Legislative Director" <jrieper@...>
Subject: RE[4]: New York State Handgun Laws For Non-Residents

Jacob J. Rieper wrote:
There's no 48-hour time period. Go to the Assembly webpage. Click
under Bill Search, then New York State Laws. It's under Penal Law,
Section 265.20, Exemptions.

Alan Cox wrote:
Why does Paragraph 13 of Section 265.20 of the NY State Penal Law
mention a time-period of 48 hours??

Jacob J. Rieper wrote:
Within 48 hours of the event, not 48 hours total.

Alan Cox wrote:
If an out-of-state resident has 48 hours to get to a match, & 48
hours to return, then wouldn't the law allow that person to spend the
night someplace??
----------
Alan Cox wrote:
Was Rob Boudrie, USPSA Area 7 Director, wrong when he said that "The
NRA does recognize USPSA matches, and I have a letter to that
effect."?? Also, why does Paragraph 13 of Section 265.20 of the NY
State Penal Law explicitly recognize IHMSA [International Handgun
Metallic Silhouette Association] matches??

Jacob J. Rieper wrote:
I forgot about IHMSA. If the USPSA match is sanctioned by NRA, then
it's ok. Not all events are sanctioned by NRA.

Jacob J. Rieper, Legislative Director
New York State Rifle & Pistol Association
<http://www.nysrpa.org> <http://www.rpa-pac.org>
Yahoo! Messenger ID: nyrkba
------------------------------------------------------------
From Jacob J. Rieper, Legislative Director Thu Mar 2 10:51:00 2006
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 13:51:00 -0500
To: "Alan Cox" <alan_r_coxa@...>
From: "Jacob J. Rieper, Legislative Director" <jrieper@...>
Subject: RE[5]: New York State Handgun Laws For Non-Residents

Alan Cox wrote:
If an out-of-state resident has 48 hours to get to a match, & 48
hours to return, then wouldn't the law allow that person to spend the
night someplace??

Jacob J. Rieper wrote:
You have a match over the weekend. You can arrive Thursday or
Friday, but not before. Shoot Saturday & Sunday. Leave the state by
Tuesday, no later.

Jacob J. Rieper, Legislative Director
New York State Rifle & Pistol Association
<http://www.nysrpa.org> <http://www.rpa-pac.org>
Yahoo! Messenger ID: nyrkba
------------------------------------------------------------
From Alan Cox Thu Mar 2 12:02:55 2006
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 12:02:55 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan Cox" <alan_r_coxa@...>
Subject: RE[6]: New York State Handgun Laws For Non-Residents
To: "NYSP General Email" <NyspMail@...>,
PISTOLPT@...
CC: <SNIP>

Jacob J. Rieper, thank-you for your prompt replies!!
Alan Cox
------------------------------------------------------------
From Alan Cox Thu Mar 2 13:36:31 2006
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 13:36:31 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan Cox" <alan_r_coxa@...>
Subject: RE[7]: New York State Handgun Laws For Non-Residents
To: "NYSP General Email" <NyspMail@...>,
PISTOLPT@...
CC: <SNIP>

From Tom King Thu Mar 2 12:30:12 2006
From: "Tom King" <tking@...>
To: "Alan Cox" <alan_r_coxa@...>
Subject: Re: RE[2]: New York State Handgun Laws For Non-Residents
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:30:12 -0500

Alan Cox wrote:
#8. Thomas H. King, does the N.R.A. ever have any 2-day matches??
Also, are any of your clubs also affiliated with the IDPA &/or the
USPCA??

Thomas H. King wrote:
Yes there are two day matches and we do not keep track of our club's
other affiliations although I'm sure we have a number of IDPA and
SASS clubs.
Tom King
------------------------------------------------------------
From NYSP General Email Thu Mar 2 09:09:53 2006
Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2006 12:09:53 -0500
From: "NYSP General Email" <NyspMail@...>
To: "H Pistol Permit" <PistolPt@...>, "Alan Cox"
<alan_r_coxa@...>
CC: <SNIP>
Subject: Re: RE[3]: New York State Handgun Laws For Non-Residents

Your answer is in Penal Law Sect. 265.20, subsection 13.
13. Possession of pistols and revolvers by a person who is a
nonresident of this state while attending or traveling to or from, an
organized competitive pistol match or league competition under
auspices of, or approved by, the National Rifle Association and in
which he is a competitor, within forty-eight hours of such event or
by a person who is a non-resident of the state while attending or
traveling to or from an organized match sanctioned by the
International Handgun Metallic Silhouette Association and in which he
is a competitor, within forty-eight hours of such event, provided
that he has not been previously convicted of a felony or a crime
which, if committed in New York, would constitute a felony, and
further provided that the pistols or revolvers are transported
unloaded in a locked opaque container together with a copy of the
match program, match schedule or match registration card. Such
documentation shall constitute prima facie evidence of exemption,
providing that such person also has in his possession a pistol
license or firearms registration card issued in accordance with the
laws of his place of residence. For purposes of this subdivision, a
person licensed in a jurisdiction which does not authorize such
license by a person who has been previously convicted of a felony
shall be presumed to have no prior conviction. The superintendent of
state police shall annually review the laws of jurisdictions within
the United States and Canada with respect to the applicable
requirements for licensing or registration of firearms and shall
publish a list of those jurisdictions which prohibit possession of a
firearm by a person previously convicted of a felony or crimes which
if committed in New York state would constitute a felony.
------------------------------------------------------------
From Alan Cox Thu Mar 2 15:49:23 2006
Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2006 15:49:23 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan Cox" <alan_r_coxa@...>
Subject: RE[8]: New York State Handgun Laws For Non-Residents
To: "NYSP General Email" <NyspMail@...>, "H Pistol
Permit" <PistolPt@...>
CC: <SNIP>

#1. Since the NY Penal Law Section 265.20, Subsection 13, which you
quoted above says that a person has 48 hours to get to a match & 48
hours to leave, why did you tell me earlier that the law doesn't
allow for someone to spend the night someplace?? Why did you say
before that "The interval and route by which the owner may transport
the out-of-state handgun should be direct and continuous, however. In
other words, one can stop for gas or a bathroom break on route, for
example, but there's no provision in the law that would permit one to
stay overnight with it en route."?? The law that you quoted above
says nothing about "direct and continuous"!!

#2. Also, the law that you quoted above states that the
superintendent of state police will annually issue a list of approved
out-of-state handgun licenses. Where is this list or what states are
on this list??

Thank-you very much, Alan Cox
------------------------------------------------------------
From Alan Cox Sat Mar 4 19:06:24 2006
Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2006 19:06:24 -0800 (PST)
From: "Alan Cox" <alan_r_coxa@...>
Subject: RE[9]: New York State Handgun Laws For Non-Residents
To: <SNIP>

Rob Boudrie wrote:
<SNIP>
The best book on NY gun laws I know of is the one written by attorney
Jeffrey Chaimberlain and Lt. Lee O. Thomas (NYSP, ret.) and published
by <http://www.looseleaflaw.com>. Attorney Kappas has written what is
the definitive book on a national level, however, the NY book runs
several hundred pages and was written by a retired NY State Police
officer and a member of the NY bar, so it is not surprising that this
NY specific book goes into a bit more detail. If you buy it, sign up
for the annual updates (about $13/year).
<SNIP>

Alan Cox replies:
#1. In case somebody does an internet search, it's Chamberlain
instead of "Chaimberlain", & his website is: <http://www.flsa.com>.
His book & CD URL's are:
<http://www.looseleaflaw.com/catalog/detail.html?isbn=1-889031-04-6>
<http://www.looseleaflaw.com/catalog/detail.html?isbn=1-889031-29-1>

<SNIP>
------------------------------------------------------------
#1. Flying With Guns:
<http://www.packing.org>
<http://www.packing.org/faq>
<http://www.packing.org/airlines>
<http://www.packing.org/community/flying_with_guns>
<http://www.packing.org/community/flying_with_guns/listview/10450>
<http://www.packing.org/community/general/listview/9407>
<http://www.packing.org/community/general/listview/9401>
<http://www.packing.org/community/where_to_carry/listview/1991>
<http://www.packing.org/community/leo_encounters/listview/397>
<http://www.packing.org/community/general/listview/250>

#2. Again, for the book "Traveler's Guide to the Firearm Laws of the
Fifty States", by J. Scott Kappas, Esq.:
<http://www.gunlawguide.com> <gunlaws@...>

#3. Again, for information on a non-resident New Jersey firearm
identification card:
New Jersey State Police Firearms Office: 609-882-2000-Ext.2060
Website: <http://www.njsp.org/index.html>
New Jersey State Police, P.O. Box 7068, West Trenton, NJ 08628