Further information on the relationship between the Takla and
Wells versions of the Coptic NT has been provided to me by
Hany Takla in off-list email. I had sent him a copy of my last list
note on the subject, and wrote to him as follows:

"I thought you might be interested in the following note that I sent to
my GThomas list yesterday, especially since your name came into
it. If you have any observations on any of the issues discussed here,
I'd love to hear them. (I won't pass them along to the list unless you
give your permission to do so.)"

Hany's response was as follows:

"In explanation I would like to add that the Coptic CD that was initially
distributed by the Society had four modules of my own work that included
a Course in Bohairic with recorded pronunciation, Bohairic-English
Dictionary, An Annual Lectionary of the Feasts in the Coptic Church, and
the Coptic New Testament. Since we exhausted the stock of this CD, the
first two modules were licensed to COEPA organization in Australia to
distribute with one of their electronic products. The New Testament CD
became a separate CD and was distributed for a reduced price when
ordered as you have seen. As you know the Sahidic Text was based on
the latest complete texts published after Horner's edition. I added the
superlineal strokes and changed the word division to better serve the
grammatical meaning. However, despite many reviews there were multiple
typos. J. Warren Wells was good enough to correct many if not all these
typos in his produced text.

"Currently I set up for the Society a subscription site
(http://demo.stshenouda.info/tc.htm) that houses all the separate files for
the New Testament that were on the CD plus all the periodicals that the
Society has issued or are currently issued along with contents of some of
our library holdings and our own manuscript collection. With regards to the
New Testament I will be making corrections to the texts periodically and
post them. Also I am planning to release some of the Old Testament Texts
that I have done from either published sources or manuscript copies in the
Microform library of the Society. This information can be distributed as
you see fit. Take care."

I have expressed my thanks to Hany for sharing this information with us.

Mike Grondin
Mt. Clemens, MI

Thanks Mike for digging into this. On two or three occasions I have gone to
the St Shenouda site at http://www.stshenouda.com/society/copticcd.htm to
order the Coptic NT CD and every time was unsuccessful when I clicked the
"Submit" button (got the dreaded "Page No Found" message.

As an alternative I downloaded the Sahidica material but I'm not too keen on
the font used with it. As far as the Marcion product I agree with other
observations that it is simply too cumbersome to be workable.

But back to the Takla resource: Is the material offered there (via
subscription) searchable?  What is the format like (presumably all the
strokes are there)?

Rick
||-----Original Message-----
||From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On
||Behalf Of Michael Grondin
||Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 3:40 PM
||To: gthomas@yahoogroups.com
||Subject: Re: [GTh] Horner and the Disappearance of Bibliacoptica.com
||
||
||
||Further information on the relationship between the Takla and Wells
versions of
||the Coptic NT has been provided to me by Hany Takla in off-list email. I
had
||sent him a copy of my last list note on the subject, and wrote to him as
follows:
||
||"I thought you might be interested in the following note that I sent to my
||GThomas list yesterday, especially since your name came into it. If you
have
||any observations on any of the issues discussed here, I'd love to hear
them. (I
||won't pass them along to the list unless you give your permission to do
so.)"
||
||Hany's response was as follows:
||
||"In explanation I would like to add that the Coptic CD that was initially
||distributed by the Society had four modules of my own work that included a
||Course in Bohairic with recorded pronunciation, Bohairic-English
Dictionary, An
||Annual Lectionary of the Feasts in the Coptic Church, and the Coptic New
||Testament. Since we exhausted the stock of this CD, the first two modules
were
||licensed to COEPA organization in Australia to distribute with one of
their
||electronic products. The New Testament CD became a separate CD and was
||distributed for a reduced price when ordered as you have seen. As you know
||the Sahidic Text was based on the latest complete texts published after
Horner's
||edition. I added the superlineal strokes and changed the word division to
better
||serve the grammatical meaning. However, despite many reviews there were
||multiple typos. J. Warren Wells was good enough to correct many if not all
these
||typos in his produced text.
||
||"Currently I set up for the Society a subscription site
||(http://demo.stshenouda.info/tc.htm) that houses all the separate files
for the
||New Testament that were on the CD plus all the periodicals that the
Society has
||issued or are currently issued along with contents of some of our library
||holdings and our own manuscript collection. With regards to the New
Testament
||I will be making corrections to the texts periodically and post them. Also
I am
||planning to release some of the Old Testament Texts that I have done from
||either published sources or manuscript copies in the Microform library of
the
||Society. This information can be distributed as you see fit. Take care."
||
||I have expressed my thanks to Hany for sharing this information with us.
||
||Mike Grondin
||Mt. Clemens, MI
||
||
||
||

The Packard Humanities Institute is reputed to have available on its PHI
CD ROM collection many Coptic Texts including the CNT and Nag Hammadi
texts. Has anyone seen this material?

Rick Hubbard

|-----Original Message-----
|From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com]
|Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 5:50 AM
|To: Richard Hubbard; gthomas@yahoogroups.com
|Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [GTh] Horner and the Disappearance of
Bibliacoptica.com
|Importance: Low
|
|
|
|
|
|Thanks Mike for digging into this. On two or three occasions I have
gone to the St
|Shenouda site at [ http://www.stshenouda.com/society/copticcd.htm
|]http://www.stshenouda.com/society/copticcd.htm to order the Coptic NT
CD and
|every time was unsuccessful when I clicked the "Submit" button (got the
dreaded
|"Page No Found" message.
|
|As an alternative I downloaded the Sahidica material but I'm not too
keen on the font
|used with it. As far as the Marcion product I agree with other
observations that it is
|simply too cumbersome to be workable.
|
|But back to the Takla resource: Is the material offered there (via
|subscription) searchable? What is the format like (presumably all the
strokes are
|there)?
|
|Rick
|||-----Original Message-----
|||From: [ mailto:gthomas%40yahoogroups.com ]gthomas@yahoogroups.com
|||[mailto:[ mailto:gthomas%40yahoogroups.com ]gthomas@yahoogroups.com]
|||On Behalf Of Michael Grondin
|||Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 3:40 PM
|||To: [ mailto:gthomas%40yahoogroups.com ]gthomas@yahoogroups.com
|||Subject: Re: [GTh] Horner and the Disappearance of Bibliacoptica.com
|||
|||
|||
|||Further information on the relationship between the Takla and Wells
|versions of
|||the Coptic NT has been provided to me by Hany Takla in off-list
email.
|||I
|had
|||sent him a copy of my last list note on the subject, and wrote to him
|||as
|follows:
|||
|||"I thought you might be interested in the following note that I sent
|||to my GThomas list yesterday, especially since your name came into
it.
|||If you
|have
|||any observations on any of the issues discussed here, I'd love to
hear
|them. (I
|||won't pass them along to the list unless you give your permission to
|||do
|so.)"
|||
|||Hany's response was as follows:
|||
|||"In explanation I would like to add that the Coptic CD that was
|||initially distributed by the Society had four modules of my own work
|||that included a Course in Bohairic with recorded pronunciation,
|||Bohairic-English
|Dictionary, An
|||Annual Lectionary of the Feasts in the Coptic Church, and the Coptic
|||New Testament. Since we exhausted the stock of this CD, the first two
|||modules
|were
|||licensed to COEPA organization in Australia to distribute with one of
|their
|||electronic products. The New Testament CD became a separate CD and
was
|||distributed for a reduced price when ordered as you have seen. As you
|||know the Sahidic Text was based on the latest complete texts
published
|||after
|Horner's
|||edition. I added the superlineal strokes and changed the word
division
|||to
|better
|||serve the grammatical meaning. However, despite many reviews there
|||were multiple typos. J. Warren Wells was good enough to correct many
|||if not all
|these
|||typos in his produced text.
|||
|||"Currently I set up for the Society a subscription site ([
|||http://demo.stshenouda.info/tc.htm
|||]http://demo.stshenouda.info/tc.htm) that houses all the separate
|||files
|for the
|||New Testament that were on the CD plus all the periodicals that the
|Society has
|||issued or are currently issued along with contents of some of our
|||library holdings and our own manuscript collection. With regards to
|||the New
|Testament
|||I will be making corrections to the texts periodically and post them.
|||Also
|I am
|||planning to release some of the Old Testament Texts that I have done
|||from either published sources or manuscript copies in the Microform
|||library of
|the
|||Society. This information can be distributed as you see fit. Take
care."
|||
|||I have expressed my thanks to Hany for sharing this information with
us.
|||
|||Mike Grondin
|||Mt. Clemens, MI
|||
|||
|||
|||
|
|
|
|
|

For those who are interested here is a link to one person's assessment
of some recent "editions" of the CNT:

http://www.biblical-data.org/coptic/Wells_text.pdf

Rick Hubbard

|-----Original Message-----
|From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com]
|Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 10:35 AM
|To: Richard Hubbard; gthomas@yahoogroups.com
|Subject: {Disarmed} [GTh] Electronic Coptic Tests, In General
|Importance: Low
|
|
|
|
|The Packard Humanities Institute is reputed to have available on its
PHI CD ROM
|collection many Coptic Texts including the CNT and Nag Hammadi texts.
Has
|anyone seen this material?
|
|Rick Hubbard
|
||-----Original Message-----
||From: [ mailto:gthomas%40yahoogroups.com ]gthomas@yahoogroups.com
||[mailto:[ mailto:gthomas%40yahoogroups.com ]gthomas@yahoogroups.com]
||Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 5:50 AM
||To: Richard Hubbard; [ mailto:gthomas%40yahoogroups.com
||]gthomas@yahoogroups.com
||Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [GTh] Horner and the Disappearance of
|Bibliacoptica.com
||Importance: Low
||
||
||
||
||
||Thanks Mike for digging into this. On two or three occasions I have
|gone to the St
||Shenouda site at [ [ http://www.stshenouda.com/society/copticcd.htm
||]http://www.stshenouda.com/society/copticcd.htm
||][ http://www.stshenouda.com/society/copticcd.htm
||]http://www.stshenouda.com/society/copticcd.htm to order the Coptic NT
|CD and
||every time was unsuccessful when I clicked the "Submit" button (got
the
|dreaded
||"Page No Found" message.
||
||As an alternative I downloaded the Sahidica material but I'm not too
|keen on the font
||used with it. As far as the Marcion product I agree with other
|observations that it is
||simply too cumbersome to be workable.
||
||But back to the Takla resource: Is the material offered there (via
||subscription) searchable? What is the format like (presumably all the
|strokes are
||there)?
||
||Rick
||||-----Original Message-----
||||From: [ mailto:gthomas%40yahoogroups.com ][
||||mailto:gthomas%40yahoogroups.com ]gthomas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[
||||mailto:gthomas%40yahoogroups.com ][ mailto:gthomas%40yahoogroups.com
||||]gthomas@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Grondin
||||Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 3:40 PM
||||To: [ mailto:gthomas%40yahoogroups.com ][
||||mailto:gthomas%40yahoogroups.com ]gthomas@yahoogroups.com
||||Subject: Re: [GTh] Horner and the Disappearance of Bibliacoptica.com
||||
||||
||||
||||Further information on the relationship between the Takla and Wells
||versions of
||||the Coptic NT has been provided to me by Hany Takla in off-list
|email.
||||I
||had
||||sent him a copy of my last list note on the subject, and wrote to
him
||||as
||follows:
||||
||||"I thought you might be interested in the following note that I sent
||||to my GThomas list yesterday, especially since your name came into
|it.
||||If you
||have
||||any observations on any of the issues discussed here, I'd love to
|hear
||them. (I
||||won't pass them along to the list unless you give your permission to
||||do
||so.)"
||||
||||Hany's response was as follows:
||||
||||"In explanation I would like to add that the Coptic CD that was
||||initially distributed by the Society had four modules of my own work
||||that included a Course in Bohairic with recorded pronunciation,
||||Bohairic-English
||Dictionary, An
||||Annual Lectionary of the Feasts in the Coptic Church, and the Coptic
||||New Testament. Since we exhausted the stock of this CD, the first
two
||||modules
||were
||||licensed to COEPA organization in Australia to distribute with one
of
||their
||||electronic products. The New Testament CD became a separate CD and
|was
||||distributed for a reduced price when ordered as you have seen. As
you
||||know the Sahidic Text was based on the latest complete texts
|published
||||after
||Horner's
||||edition. I added the superlineal strokes and changed the word
|division
||||to
||better
||||serve the grammatical meaning. However, despite many reviews there
||||were multiple typos. J. Warren Wells was good enough to correct many
||||if not all
||these
||||typos in his produced text.
||||
||||"Currently I set up for the Society a subscription site ([ [
||||http://demo.stshenouda.info/tc.htm
||||]http://demo.stshenouda.info/tc.htm
||||][ http://demo.stshenouda.info/tc.htm
||||]http://demo.stshenouda.info/tc.htm) that houses all the separate
||||files
||for the
||||New Testament that were on the CD plus all the periodicals that the
||Society has
||||issued or are currently issued along with contents of some of our
||||library holdings and our own manuscript collection. With regards to
||||the New
||Testament
||||I will be making corrections to the texts periodically and post
them.
||||Also
||I am
||||planning to release some of the Old Testament Texts that I have done
||||from either published sources or manuscript copies in the Microform
||||library of
||the
||||Society. This information can be distributed as you see fit. Take
|care."
||||
||||I have expressed my thanks to Hany for sharing this information with
|us.
||||
||||Mike Grondin
||||Mt. Clemens, MI
||||
||||
||||
||||
||
||
||
||
||
|
|
|
|
|

> As it happens, I know who Vagrantos is. He's none other than Milan
> Konvicka, the guy who runs the Sahidica site out of Czechoslovakia.
> I think this answers the question I had about the source of his CNT
> and NH data. Apparently, Sahidica = PHI.

Whoops. No, no, no! I should have signed myself "Zero Wolfe", or
perhaps appealed to those few occasions when Nero made some
elementary mistake. Milan Konvicka is associated with Marcion, not
Sahidica. Sahidica is J.Warren Wells, and we know about his CNT.
What we now know (apparently) is that Marcion's CNT and NH data
came from PHI (via thepiratebay.org).

Mike

Hi Mike

The information sheet you mention in connection the PHI CD is something
I've seen before, I think. I don't recall the source, but when I saw it
the impression I had was that use by "non-commercial scholarly use by
universities and scholars" is somewhat broadly interpreted by the folks
at Packard so it might not be that big of a problem to lay hands on it.
The Bit Torrent thingy seems a bit dicey in my estimation.

One thing I am pretty sure of is that even after getting the PHI CD, a
reader is necessary, so even if the CD can be had at no cost, I suppose
the reader will cost a few bucks.

I have a bit of a full plate right now or I would get in touch with the
Packard folks myself. Maybe you can send off an email or give them a
jingle to see what all is involved in getting a copy of the CD?

BTW, good sleuthing on the heritage of the Sahidica and Marcion CNTs.

Rick Hubbard




|-----Original Message-----
|From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com]
|Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 2:02 PM
|To: Richard Hubbard; gthomas@yahoogroups.com
|Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [GTh] Electronic Coptic Tests, In General
|Importance: Low
|
|
|
|
|
|Rick wrote:
|> The Packard Humanities Institute is reputed to have available on its
|> PHI CD ROM collection many Coptic Texts including the CNT and Nag
|> Hammadi texts. Has anyone seen this material?
|
|I mentioned this is an earlier note, Rick, but I haven't succeeded in
even getting the
|details of obtaining it, let alone actually doing so.
|However, I do have some interesting preliminary results to report.
|
|This morning, I went back to the site I had mentioned previously, viz.
|[ http://www.inrebus.com/index.php?entry=entry081104-201701
|]http://www.inrebus.com/index.php?entry=entry081104-201701
|It has a zip file containing two Word documents, apparently to be sent
to PHI. One is
|a license agreement, the other an information sheet listing some
software that needs
|to be obtained to use the PHI CD. The license agreement makes me
worried that a
|person such as myself would be unable to obtain the CD. They say:
|
|> These materials are intended for non-commercial scholarly use by
universities and
|scholars.
|> The CD ROMs are being made available by means of a license agreement
|> with an indefinite term. The fact that we offer this license at no
|> charge (including shipping & handling costs) reflects PHI's desire
|> that the texts on the discs be available to all interested scholars
and institutions for
|educational purposes.
|
|At this point, I did a Google search to see what else I could find. I
came across this:
|[ http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3574807/TLG__PHI__Cd-
|rom_E_with_Antiquarium_2.0
|]http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3574807/TLG__PHI__Cd-
|rom_E_with_Antiquarium_2.0
|
|This URL looked promising (albeit possibly illegal), and the
description indicated that
|the file contains two PHI CD's, plus a piece of software needed to use
them, so I tried
|to download. That's where I ran into problems. It seems that there's a
"Torrent" file
|involved, and my system doesn't know how to handle it. That's something
I have to
|work on, but here's the interesting thing: among the comments below the
description
|of the file is one by "Vagrantos" dated 2008-09-30. He writes:
|
|"AWESOME, especially Nag Hammmadi Library in sahidic. long time i was
looking
|for it."
|
|As it happens, I know who Vagrantos is. He's none other than Milan
Konvicka, the
|guy who runs the Sahidica site out of Czechoslovakia. I think this
answers the
|question I had about the source of his CNT and NH data. Apparently,
Sahidica = PHI.
|
|Mike "Nero Wolfe" Grondin
|
|
|
|

Just to summarize my current understanding:

1. Coptic NH texts
-------------------------
Only one version, routed as follows:
Claremont (Robinson et al) > PHI > thepiratebay.org > Marcion
(neither St. Shenouda [Takla] nor Sahidica [Wells] has it)

2. Coptic NT (CNT)
---------------------------
Three versions:
(1) St. Shenouda (Hany Takla)
(2) Yale (B.Layton et al) > PHI > thepiratebay.org > Marcion
(3) Sahidica (J.W. Wells), checked against (1) and (2)

Mike G.

Mike,

Thanks for your reply. Very helpful.

As far as "EIC" goes, I thought perhaps it could be a loan word from
Greek, but that is hard to tell as the Greek and Coptic get so mixed up
sometimes! But if as a stand alone word it means "behold", then I would
concur with what you cite from Crum and Lambdin.

In English I use "look" a lot, since I can be very visually oriented.
But I've learned from the newer educational models that not everyone is
visually inclined, and that others are aural and/or tactile oriented in
their learning styles.  So, I've learned to try to use "listen" or
"feels like" in place of "look" sometimes.

In this vein, I appreciate how you chose "listen" as the equivelency of
"eis-2hhte" :)  One can "behold" with one's "mind" very well by using
the ears, I believe.

I have lots of other questions on Coptic/Greek Thomas that I'd like to
bring to the list here, if these type of questions are appropriate here,
and time permits.

Thanks again.

Timster

Hi Timster, you wrote:
> As far as "EIC" goes, I thought perhaps it could be a loan word from
> Greek, but that is hard to tell as the Greek and Coptic get so mixed up
> sometimes!

My site can help with this. http://www.gospel-thomas.net/splitv.htm
... where the Greek words are colored-coded. Unfortunately,
I see that I haven't (yet) done that with the lexicon,
(http://www.gospel-thomas.net/lex_ce.htm)
which is maybe where you got your list of occurrences?

> I appreciate how you chose "listen" as the equivelency of "eis-2hhte"
> One can "behold" with one's "mind" very well by using the ears, I
> believe.

Well, I didn't actually propose 'listen' as a general equivalent. In the
one saying that has a Markan analogue, it seems to work, but elsewhere
probably not. It occurred to me later that maybe 'hark!' might work in all
cases, but then I looked it up and my OAD says 'hark' means 'listen'.
(Though 'hark back' apparently means 'remember' inter alia!)

> I have lots of other questions on Coptic/Greek Thomas that I'd like to
> bring to the list here, if these type of questions are appropriate here
> ...

They are. And welcome, too.

Mike G.

FWIW-

Emmel identifies EIS as a "diecetic particle", meaning that its meaning
depends on a contextual reference. It is therefore more akin to Gr IDOU
than to the preposition EIS. So near as I can see it occurs in GTH only
with 2HHTE as the referent (6 times by Emmel's count). I haven't had
time to pick through Crum's entire treatment but he identifies it as an
"interjection" here: http://www.metalog.org/files/crum/085.gif

Rick Hubbard



|-----Original Message-----
|From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com]
|Sent: Monday, August 23, 2010 2:38 PM
|To: Richard Hubbard; gthomas@yahoogroups.com
|Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [GTh] behold
|Importance: Low
|
|
|
|
|Timster wrote:
|
|> ... it looks like this word in Coptic comes from combining "eis=into"
|> with "xht=mind/heart", that is, "bring into one's mind or into one's
|> heart" which would infer the idea of something to ponder, rather than
|> getting attention by looking at something. I also noticed that it is
|> not the same as the other Coptic words for "look" (nau, qwyl).
|
|I'm unable to confirm that 'eis' means 'into', Tim. Both Lambdin and
Crum indicate
|that 'eis' is a participle meaning 'behold, lo, here is', and that it's
combined with a noun
|such as '2hhte' (which does seem to be a form of '2ht'). The
combination would thus
|be literally something like "behold mind!", which would have to be
taken as an idiom
|that doesn't make much literal sense. (There's a lot of those in
English.)
|
|As to the suitability of the translation 'look!', I think there's
something to be said for it.
|Like the expression 'look here', it sometimes functions in company with
a non-verbal
|gesture, but sometimes as a stand-alone verbal attention-getter ("Look
here, you're
|quite wrong about that, old chap," e.g.) That same dual functionality
seems to
|underlie 'eis 2hhte'. In Th113, e.g., it seems to be an external
pointer, but in Th9, it
|must be an attention-getter (as in Mk 4:3, the analogue of Th9, where
the
|corresponding Greek word is translated 'listen!').
|
|Cheers,
|Mike Grondin
|Mt. Clemens, MI
|
|
|
|
|

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3574807/TLG__PHI__Cd-rom_E_with_Antiquarium_2.0

> This URL looked promising (albeit possibly illegal), and the description
> indicated that the file contains two PHI CD's, plus a piece of software
> needed to use them, so I tried to download. That's where I ran into
> problems. It seems that there's a "Torrent" file involved, and my system
> doesn't know how to handle it. That's something I have to work on ...

I've now worked on it. I was able to download the Torrent file, and
eventually get the included program (Antiquarian) to work. Unfortunately,
the program doesn't access the Coptic files on PHI-7! I know they're
there, because I looked at them (one for CNT, one for NH) outside of
Antiquarian. But the program doesn't show them in its list of contents
of PHI-7 (possibly because of lack of a Coptic font).

One thing I think I can surmise from the look of the Coptic data files, and
how other files are displayed, is that page-line numbers (still less saying
numbers) aren't included. So even if one were to use another piece of
software to access the PHI Coptic files, the display would probably be
inferior to Marcion (which adds page-line numbers), and chances are
that that other program would be no more user-friendly. In other words,
Marcion is looking much better to me today.

Addendum:
Having written the above, I checked the Marcion site to see whether
anything had been done about my report of the errors in the GThos
file. As it turns out, Vagrantos (Milan) has now posted this comment:

"Thank you very much, text should be numbered now correctly."

However, I don't see that any of Marcion's public files have yet been
updated. I'll be anxious to download the new data when it's posted.

Mike G.

Mike Wrote:

> In other words, Marcion is looking much better to me today.

I suppose I should be grateful for having even this, but I have to say the
Marcion application is the hardest most convoluted piece of software I have
come across in years. I've spent hours fiddling with it and never have been
able to accomplish much. Oh well, as I say better than nothing, I suppose.

Rick

I've come across a voluminous set of links to Coptic resources
and texts, in an ETC posting Monday by one Christian Askeland:

http://evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com/2010/08/coptic-unicode-font.html

He announces and makes available what he calls a "stable version"
of a Unicode Coptic font commissioned by the International
Association of Coptic Studies (link provided in the blog entry).
I haven't looked at this font yet, but I have added a link to Askeland's
Coptic Language Links page to my own links-list.

M.Grondin

Hmmm. It seems that perhaps my criticism (below) of the Marcion application was a bit overstated.

|I suppose I should be grateful for having even this, but I have to say the Marcion

|application is the hardest most convoluted piece of software I have come across in

|years. I've spent hours fiddling with it and never have been able to accomplish much.

I decided last night that I was going to "conquer" this piece of software regardless of how much time was involved. After much frustration and general ugliness I finally un-installed it from my computer and downloaded the application again. I've concluded that my first installation was corrupted because now it works as I presume it was intended to work. All that notwithstanding, I somewhat stand by my original remarks that it is not exactly an intuitive program. Nevertheless, I am now able to read the NHL texts and have learned how to search the dictionary for words encountered in the text. Again, this is not a particularly straight-forward task, but it can be done.

Moreover, I was able to determine the font encoding used for the NHL texts: It is New Athena Unicode. This means that as long as that font is present on the computer, it is possible to copy and paste from the Marcion program to Microsoft Word and Excel. For a couple of projects I am working on, that was a significant discovery.

The other good news (depending on perspective, of course) is that I am now more prepared to move to Unicode font standards which is something I have avoided even **thinking** about for the past few years. Now if we can just figure out a way to adapt those standards globally on the list we won't need to type 2 when we are actually meaning to type Ϩ (just a test to see how this looks).

Rick Hubbard

|-----Original Message-----

|From: gthomas@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gthomas@yahoogroups.com]

|Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 6:18 PM

|To: Richard Hubbard; gthomas@yahoogroups.com

|Subject: {SPAM?} RE: [GTh] Electronic Coptic Tests, In General

|Importance: Low

|

|

|

|

|Mike Wrote:

|

|> In other words, Marcion is looking much better to me today.

|

|I suppose I should be grateful for having even this, but I have to say the Marcion

|application is the hardest most convoluted piece of software I have come across in

|years. I've spent hours fiddling with it and never have been able to accomplish much.

|Oh well, as I say better than nothing, I suppose.

|

|Rick

|

|

|

|

|

I've had a brief email exchange with Christian Askeland which
I'm sure he wouldn't mind my sharing, since there's nothing
confidential in it. I had written to him as follows:

>What a wonderful set of Coptic language links! Your posting
>at ETC (to which I was alerted by April DeConick's blog) brought
>it to my attention and I've added it to my own links-list (which is
>for the most part geared to a more restricted purpose)

His response was as follows:
------------------------------------------------------
Thanks, Mike!
My site focuses on biblical studies, but I may eventually expand it to Nag
Hammadi, and, if I do, I will add your site. Are there pictures of Thomas
on the Claremont page (cf. relevant link on my webpage)?
Warm greetings from Cambridge,
Christian
--
Best Wishes,
Christian Askeland
University of Cambridge
Tyndale House
36 Selwyn Gardens, Cambridge, CB3 9BA, UK
------------------------------------------------------------------

I haven't checked yet to answer his question, but I did look at:

http://www.evertype.com/fonts/coptic/

... which indicates that Askeland worked with Stephen Emmel
on developing the font in question. Although I'd never heard of
Askeland before, he has a very impressive background.

M.Grondin

Good news! We now have Milan Konvicka (alias Vagrant/Vagrantos)
on the premisses. Welcome Milan! I hope you will be able to find in
the archives the stuff we've been saying about Marcion.

Mike Grondin

I see that here is discussed Marcion software sometimes. Whoever has problems
with it or have any idea on account of improvements or new features, tell me
please.

good luck

(my english is not excellent, sorry :) )

Hi Mike-

One of your remarks about Unicode is exactly the same thing I had always thought
too.

||But also (if I understand correctly), the
||downside is that one either needs to set up a special software keypad, or go
||through some other shenanigans when typing the Coptic.
[||]

As it turns out, however, this is an amazingly simple thing to do. I installed
an alternate Coptic keyboard setting today that I can toggle back and forth
between English and Coptic with a mouse click or Alt key combination. I'll get
all the details together and post them tomorrow, but basically all that is
involved is installing Athena Unicode fonts, downloading a key board utility and
making a change in the Windows XP regional settings. I'd guess the whole thing
does not take more than 30 minutes and works flawlessly.
||
||> Now if we can just figure out a way to adapt those standards globally
||> on the list we won't need to type 2 when we are actually meaning to type Ϩ
||(just a test to see how this looks).
||
||Looks fine, but now we'll see how it looks when encased in a reply.
[||]
I'll be eager to see how the hori looks in this reply!

Rick

Milan -

Two questions:

(1) Please look at http://www.gospel-thomas.net/Clip1.jpg
This is a screen-print of my attempt to search the Nag Hammadi
Library from Marcion. When I hit "Query", nothing happens. Does
that have something to do with the name of the library being crossed
out? Is that because one can't search an entire library?

(2) I was intending to write a list of instructions tonight how to
replace the Nag Hammadi file that comes with version 1.2.0,
in order to get the corrected version of the GosThom text.
But before I do that, I have to ask you what your thoughts are
as to when a version 1.2.1 might come out that would have the
corrected file in it?

Mike Grondin

Mike wrote:

|
|(2) I was intending to write a list of instructions tonight how to
replace the Nag
|Hammadi file that comes with version 1.2.0, in order to get the
corrected version of
|the GosThom text.

Actually, I started something similar last night (more to find out what
was the problem than to offer suggestions). I was able to extract all
the Gthomas files so I could take a look at them. It appears that what
has happened is that some extraneous tab characters started the problem.
These appear almost exclusively at places where saying numbers have been
inserted into the text. It appears that if the logion numbers and
associated tab characters are removed, the problem is partly resolved.
What remains, however, are a **bunch** of incorrect MS line numbers.
I've fixed the first 5 pages and if you would like, Milan, I'll be happy
to send those files on to you.

Rick Hubbard

> What remains, however, are a **bunch** of incorrect MS line numbers.
> I've fixed the first 5 pages and if you would like, Milan, I'll be happy
> to send those files on to you.

Milan has a corrected file, Rick. What I was talking about was how
to download and install it in place of the corrupted file.

Mike

Thanks for your help with the search function, Milan. I see now that
the key step is to make the NH library searchable in the first place by
building an index for it, and I see why you did that - namely, because
a simple text search wouldn't catch (1) words split between two lines,
and (2) words interrupted by brackets surrounding a reconstructed
portion of the word. My first test search was a resounding success.
See http://www.gospel-thomas.net/Clip2.jpg

The word I was searching for has 14 occurrences in GThos, and
the program caught every one of them (the split occurrences indicated
by a dash at the end of a line). Plus, of course, instances in all the
other
NH tractates. I also tested to see whether the search would work with
only the beginning of a word. It did. All in all, I'm very satisfied so far
with the basic working of this function.

As I gain experience with the program, and based on your remarks
about some astonishing features of the next version, it's apparent
that an enormous amount of thought and work has been and is
going into this project. (So much so that one hesitates to suggest
minor tweeks!) Surely you can't be doing it all by yourself?

Mike G.

you are absolytely correct, text based on numbering lines and pages of
codices cannot be searched directly. my system is not perfect, because
among search results can be matched also nonexistent word, but all
relevant ocurrences are always 100% matched. for obtaining to best
result regular expressions are powerful tool. is very good learn about
them, they are widely used on all platforms in many software.

and iam pleased that my work is useful for you, this is goal of my work.
iam programmer from my childhood, so coding is not hardest part for me.
on other side, coptic language iam learning around 2 years, which is
insufficient, so iam learning systematically during developing this
software. is true that i made it alone, but other developers are welcome
to join, here is still many work to do.


--- In gthomas@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Grondin" <mwgrondin@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for your help with the search function, Milan. I see now that
> the key step is to make the NH library searchable in the first place
by
> building an index for it, and I see why you did that - namely, because
> a simple text search wouldn't catch (1) words split between two lines,
> and (2) words interrupted by brackets surrounding a reconstructed
> portion of the word. My first test search was a resounding success.
> See http://www.gospel-thomas.net/Clip2.jpg
>
> The word I was searching for has 14 occurrences in GThos, and
> the program caught every one of them (the split occurrences indicated
> by a dash at the end of a line). Plus, of course, instances in all the
> other
> NH tractates. I also tested to see whether the search would work with
> only the beginning of a word. It did. All in all, I'm very satisfied
so far
> with the basic working of this function.
>
> As I gain experience with the program, and based on your remarks
> about some astonishing features of the next version, it's apparent
> that an enormous amount of thought and work has been and is
> going into this project. (So much so that one hesitates to suggest
> minor tweeks!) Surely you can't be doing it all by yourself?
>
> Mike G.
>