On Sat, 15 Jul 2000, Isidoros wrote:

> ... I wonder, Yuri - in what sense, do you use, here, the term
> "Jewish". Would you, please, give us a definition, and put it somewhat
> in context?

Isidoros,

Here are the themes that I've already mentioned, with some additional
comments. All these pertain to primitive Jewish-Christianity. There's a
lot more, of course.

- the very important question of quartodecimanism (probably the earliest
form of celebrating Easter). This seems to be the chronology assumed in
Jn. Considerable evidence exists that the three Synoptics were also
quartodeciman in their early versions.

- flesh-and-blood Eucharist would have hardly been acceptable to
Jewish-Christians. Other forms of Eucharist, such as bread-and-water
Eucharist, are very well attested among Jewish-Christians. Also, cf. the
Didache.

- the physical understanding of the resurrection does not seem so early.
Rather, the concept of a spiritual resurrection of Jesus seems more
primitive.

- a different attitude towards the laws of Moses

- the inclusion of the Gentiles into the covenant (At what point of time
exactly are they to be included into the scheme of Salvation? Did Jesus,
himself, really authorise the mission to the Gentiles? Were there really
two Feeding of the Multitudes in the earliest gospels, or only one like
in Lk/Jn?)

- negative portrayal of Peter and other Jewish disciples

- use of "the Messiah" title as applying to Jesus in his earthly lifetime

Many of these topics are also covered on my webpage.

> Also, and without expecting you to provide for any extensive references,
> would you kindly provide some of the more important of the
>
> > a lot of research indicating that all the four gospels were
> > originally entirely Jewish in their early versions.
>
> while, also, explicating on the "originality", providing for the said
> "entirety", and substantiating the -- seemingly given by you -- Jewish
> "early versions".

This would involve providing extensive summaries of the works of Loisy,
which would demand a lot of time and work. So I simply recommend reading
his books, some of which are translated into English.

Also you expressed doubts about the Hebrew Gospel of Mt as published by
Howard. This is definitely not the place to discuss this subject (I
suggest Loisy-L). I can only mention that I have defended its antiquity at
some length here,

http://www.trends.ca/~yuku/bbl/2dh.htm

Regards,

Yuri.

Yuri Kuchinsky | Toronto | http://www.trends.ca/~yuku/bbl/bbl.htm

Biblical history list http://www.egroups.com/group/loisy

"Genuine ignorance is ... profitable because it is likely to be
accompanied by humility, curiosity, and open mindedness; whereas ability
to repeat catch-phrases, cant terms, familiar propositions, gives the
conceit of learning, and coats the mind with varnish water-proof to new
ideas" -- John Dewey