Bruce, I'm somewhat of a Johinine maverick.  Whether that's good or bad, I don't
know.  I see the 4G almost as a "stand-alone" text.  By that, one of the last
things I would do is try to justify or rationalize the 4G with the other three. 
It's the "apples to an orange" thing, the orange being the 4G. 
 
I know this will bring a response when you get back from vacation.  But it is,
for me, the uniqueness of the 4G that makes it more applicable to my ministry
than the other three.  Not that I don't teach and preach fro  other books, but I
simply prefer what the 4G does with the telling of Jesus Christ for those to
whom I teach and preach. 
 
I am reminded of what one of my instructors ask.  If one were stranded somewhere
and only had a scrap of the Scriptures with which to sustain one's faith, what
scrap would that be?  My answer was and still is the 4G.
 
Peace and enjoy the climb
 
Pastor Davis 

--- On Thu, 6/18/09, Bruce Killian <bakillian@...> wrote:


From: Bruce Killian <bakillian@...>
Subject: RE: [Gosp_John] order of events in the Gospels incl. John 2.
To: gospel_of_john@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 11:46 PM


Pastor Davis,

The problem with this passage six days before Passover is that the synoptics
have Jesus saying at this same time (the dinner at Lazarus' house "as you
know the Passover is two days away," Both statements were correct and there
is good reason for both statements. According to the solar calendar which
should have been in use the Passover was on Wednesday See Annie Jaubert
book, The Date of the Last Supper. See Gen 1:14 No mention of months
controlled by the moon. It was seasons that determined when the months were
due to be scheduled. While the "official" calendar dictated by the Saduccees
was the Lunar Solar Calendar with Friday being the day of Preparation and
Saturday being the Passover. Jesus was able to celebrate Passover at the
correct time and was able to die on Passover according to the official time.



Jesus is also our Passover, who cleansed the His house, was chosen as the
Lamb of God in his first year and in his last year. He was chosen as the
Lamb on Abib 10 as required. He was the lamb chosen by God for his
household. His body was the afikomen, the bread broken, wrapped in linen,
hidden and found of the covenant. His blood was the cup of redemption the
third cup. He drank the fourth and last cup of the Passover as he died. His
blood was on the doorpost and lintel, He died when the Passover were being
slain. His body was burned at the resurrection because it was not consumed
just as ours will in if we are alive in the twinkling of an eye. Not a bone
of his was broken. His mouth the generator of the words of eternal life is
the door way to eternal life as indicated where the hyssop branch was used.
I have had courses where it was attempted to show the Bible was full of
problems, When one studies more one finds those attempts to be faulty and
the truth is God is true in all ways. The Jews had many myths, But God's
word is not a myth, if you want to find the myths go look in Ginzberg's
Legends of the Jews.

I'm on vacation for a few days, leaving tonight for Yosemite, with two of my
children, the goal is to climb half dome.



May God multiply love, grace and peace to you,

Bruce

  _____ 

From: gospel_of_john@yahoogroups.com [mailto:gospel_of_john@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Emory Davis
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 1:07 PM
To: gospel_of_john@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Gosp_John] order of events in the Gospels incl. John 2.








This "series of events" thing, if I understand what the writer of the 4G
did, there seems to be a pretty solid "time-line" beginning in Chapter 12 -
six days before the Passover.  I don't see where it is is necessarily broken
nor that it becomes "fuzzy."  Jesus, among all that he was called, all how
he even referred to himself in the "I AMs", all that he needs to be in the
lives of people, Savior, Comforter, Healer, "The Lily of the valley and a
bright and morning star". He is and needs to be all of that and more.  I
think He is up to the task.

Peace
Pastor Davis

--- On Thu, 6/18/09, David Hall <dqhall59@yahoo.
<mailto:dqhall59%40yahoo.com> com> wrote:

From: David Hall <dqhall59@yahoo. <mailto:dqhall59%40yahoo.com> com>
Subject: Re: [Gosp_John] order of events in the Gospels incl. John 2.
To: gospel_of_john@ <mailto:gospel_of_john%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 2:15 PM

I know the observations of a lamb being harmless may be why Jesus was
described as a lamb.  In another context he was executed on the preparation
day of the Passover at the same time the lambs were being sacrificed in the
temple before the Passover supper as it was a Passover that coincided with
Sabbath.  The Gospel of John stated that the Jews were not able to enter
Pilate's headquarters for fear they would be unclean for the Passover.  On
the Passover Herod could not have tried Jesus for he was Jewish (see
Josephus) and Jews are not allowed to work on the Passover.  There have been
numerous papers on the differences between the Synoptic Gospels and the
Gospel according to John about the last supper.  It is not something likely
to be gained by light reading. 

John 18:28 They lead Jesus therefore from Caiaphas into the Praetorium: and
it was early; and they themselves entered not into the Praetorium, that they
might not be defiled, but might eat the passover.   (ASV-public domain) 

An understanding of the Jewish observance of the Passover is needed to
verify Jesus hung on the cross the same day the Passover lambs were being
sacrificed in the temple before the Passover supper that night.

Jesus taught that his disciples should be harmless as a dove. (Matt. 10)
The dove is about as harmless as a bird could be.  They mated for life.  In
one Internet article it was stated that 99% of a dove's diet was weed seed
and grain, I used to see them sit on the telephone lines for long periods
without wasting an ounce of energy.   

David Q. Hall
dqhall59.com

--- On Thu, 6/18/09, William Skelton <WJbill_49@yahoo.
<mailto:WJbill_49%40yahoo.com> com> wrote:

From: William Skelton <WJbill_49@yahoo. <mailto:WJbill_49%40yahoo.com> com>
Subject: Re: [Gosp_John] order of events in the Gospels incl. John 2.
To: gospel_of_john@ <mailto:gospel_of_john%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, June 18, 2009, 12:00 PM

John

I don't think Rory was disputing the right of people to question inerrancy
on the list, but rather, perhaps wisely, thinking that if he replied he
would provoke a big argument generating more heat than light and wished to
avoid that.

David

I have no idea what Paul was referring to as Jewish Myths but it certainly
need not have been, and in fact could not have been, Scriptural narrative.
There are many other candidates that are know to us, things like the Book of
Jubilees for example, but who knows?

Bill

--- On Thu, 6/18/09, johnestaton <john.staton@ methodist. org.uk> wrote:

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