Shree Hari Ram Ram

This brings closure to this discussion thread. Thank you all!
Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram

=============================================
FOLLOW-UP QUESTION

Dear All,

Kindly let me know Who am I ?

I am not in five bodies, where I am located and how I can I realize myself?

Kindest regards,

Sant Shree Hari

--------------------------------------------

Interesting.......Question is who are we? and who is God?

SJ

--------------------------------------------

Dear Sadhakas,
Hare Krishna.
This is in response to a question from a Sadhaka, regarding who we are and who
God is.

Lord Krisna says in Bhagavad Gita,
" Mamaivamso jiva loke,
Jiva bhutah sanatanah"
( Gitaji, 15, 7)
Which means, ' The living entities are My eternal fragmental parts.'

We are all parts of His.

The answer to the question as to who God is , in this following sloka.

Lord Krishna says,


"Pitaham asya jagato,
Mata dhata pitamahah,
Vedyam pavitram omkara,
Rk sama yajur eva ca. "
( Gitaji 9, 17)
Which means,
' I am the father of this universe, the mother, the support and the the
grandsire. I am the the knowledge, purifier,syllable OM, Rg, sama and the Yajur
Vedas.'

Lord is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
The way to realize God is to see Him everywhere.
Devotional service makes that possible.
Thank You.
Prasad.A.Iragavarapu, MD

-------------------------------------------------

Interesting contemplation and expression from Sadhaks on questions........Who am
I? Who is God?

Foundation of all spiritual wisdom is "Oneness" of all creation....
as per that "Ishwar Hi Hai".......we need to understand / be sure of what else
exists other than God....

If the above is true....what needs to be our direction.....
TO BE WHAT IS......and express the qualities of WHAT IS.....
TO BE POSITIVE (B+) and See Positive (C+).....
TO BE GREAT....SEE GREAT.....

Understanding is the whole thing......is the Key to B...

Sushil Jain

----------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

I was wondering after my yesterday's posting as to how I should now present to
Divine Sadhaks the various independent methods of God Realization- there are so
many ! Then my dilemma got solved by a really Divine message of Sadhak Basudeb
Sen. Indeed, this is a very easy method. Absolutely flawless, simple, effortless
and very quick method. Thanks, Basudebji ! "Divine is everywhere" - how can He
not be in Sadhaks of this Divine Forum also ? Thanks again !

Yes Divine Sadhaks ..let the first in line be: TO SEE PARAMATMA EVERYWHERE !
What effort is needed in just 'seeing'? It is only a 'bhava' , a simple
acceptance with a child like faith. That's all is needed.

OVER NOW TO THE NECTAR FLOWING FROM IMMORTAL WORDS OF PARAM SHRADDHEYA SWAMIJI
SHRI RAMSUKHDASJI MAHARAJ :-

1 To see Paramatma everywhere:

" If we accept, or believe or decide or resolve that "Paramatma (God) is
everywhere" then we get (realize) God very easily.

"In the form of inert/sentient/ living/non-living (jad/chetan/sthaavar/jangam)
etc whatever which comes in the sphere of seeing, hearing and thinking , that
all is only IMPERISHABLE PARAMATMA !"

(Your goal is to experience the above fact )

" To experience this fact, a sadhak should firmly accept that whether I am able
to understand this fact or not , whether it comes to my experience or not,
whether it is acceptable or not- but
this fact is truth. (Thereafter) whatever he sees - tree, river, mountain,
stone, wall etc whatever - he should see his 'ishta' Bhagwaan in the same and
pray : ' Hey Naath ! O God ! Please grant me Your love !! Hey Prabho ! My
Pranaams to You"- by doing so he will start seeing Paramatma everywhere, because
in reality "Everything Is God Only" !

"One who sees Paramatma (God) equally in all world, he is a better bhakta
(devotee) (Shrimad Bhagvatam- 8/10/55) ! If we accept the advice of better
devotee (bhakta) , then what a great benefit accrues to us ! First you have to
become Professor (Acharya) and then you have to learn 'A' 'B' 'C' ....(Ka, Kha,
Ga..,) ! "Everything is God only" if we accept this , we have become Acharya
(Professor) ! Now do Naam Jap, Keertan, Satsanga... God Realization will take
place very easily.

" When we meet some dear one how happy we become ! What will be the volume of
ANANDA in us if our very dear Bhagwaan meets with us in all forms which we see
!!! Hence keep becoming happy, keep rejoicing, keep becoming blissful, seeing
your Dear Dear Bhagwaan in all forms ! Sometime your Beloved comes in sober
form, sometimes in ferocious form, some times becoming winter, sometimes in
sizzling hot season form, sometimes in the form of air, sometimes rainy,
sometimes He comes as lightening, sometimes He roars in the form of clouds ....!

(Ananda...Paramananda..Krishnam Vande Jagadgurum..)

"Meaning : Only God comes in all forms.
"Wherever your mind goes, God is there. Now why to take trouble of concentrating
the mind? Leave mind open (make your mind free) ! Firmly decide: Where ever my
mind goes, it goes in God only and whatever may come in my mind, God only comes
; because "Everything is God only" !

"JUST AS: If at all places there is ice only, then how can ice remain concealed
(hidden) ?

" SIMILARLY: When in all forms, there is God only, then how can He hide? Where
can He hide? Behind who He can hide?

JUST ACCEPT FIRMLY - EVERY THING IS GOD ONLY !

"Once you accept, the experience will start taking place
automatically/effortlessly. You don't have to do anything for getting this
experience. You don't have to go or come anywhere.Keep doing whatever bhajan,
dhyaan, satsanga, svadhyaay that you are doing at present. No new striving is to
be done. JUST ACCEPT FIRMLY - EVERY THING IS GOD ONLY !

" I AM- in this also there is God. In mind also God is there, in intellect too,
in speech also...! Raam..Raam.. Raam - in this sound also there is God. Whatever
is coming in seeing, hearing, understanding that All is God.

"I" is God, "You" is God, "This" "That" everything is God. There is nothing
except God.

"JUST AS: If in a game, (of Hide and Seek/ Lukka-chhippi) , if a child sees the
other hiding child, then the hiding child comes out feeling that 'Now he has
seen me, now where is sense in remaining hidden' !

"SIMILARLY : God is hidden everywhere. If sadhak starts seeing Him everywhere,
God will reveal Himself , He will not remain hidden !!!

Gita guarantees this method -Read Gita 6:30 ! Read also Shrimad Bhagwat -
11/13/24; 8/10/55

That is Param Shraddheya Swamiji Ramsukhdasji Maharaj for you, Divine Sadhaks.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-------------------------------------------

Dear Ones, Namaste!
In order to Realize Who am I, I must inquire and find out based on looking at my
own experience! Scriptures and saints who have realized Self, such as Swamiji,
certainly can help point to that, but I need to embark on this journey alone. If
I have true Love and am ready to give up everything for this Realization
regardless of what it will give me, then entire Cosmos will conspire to give
Realization of who/what I am.

Few pointers can be helpful on this journey:

Note that before you were given a name, you were already existing, name was only
a label given to you to distinguish this existence from others for practical
purposes. Now the same existence took various other labels as student, husband
or wife, doctor, engineer, farmer, or whatever label you are given throughout
the life. Even as body grows older "the existence/being" continues without any
change, because at anytime you are first and foremost Existence, label or no
labels, right? Nothing ever happens to this Existence regardless of what happens
to body-mind organism(healthy/sick/happy/unhappy/short/tall etc etc). This is
very important pointer!

Just like this existence, you can check all other objects of this world, it will
be the same Existence/Being apparently undergoing change of forms, given
different names, and yet it itself remaining Changeless throughout this journey!
When forms change we call death of previous form/name and birth of another
form/name.

Next, ask the question where is this existence located in the body-mind
organism? Is it in hands, in legs, in heart, in brain, in any part of the body
you call "I"? The answer will be Existence permeates all through the
body(object), and yet it is not located at a point in space. In an object
"Existence" is rather intuited/imputed, and conceptualized with a name
"Existence" and subsequently with various names for communication purpose. If it
is not located in space, then it cannot be bound by it, and also by time too,
Thus it is not a mind's experience and yet it is the only truth about all
objects of this world and beyond, in our subjective experience w/o a name!
Having come upon this truth, the mind can talk about it to point out to others
as Saints and Sages do.

Finally, you can see this Existence is ONE only in which all objects-gross or
subtle appear with nama/rupah, and disappear in time taking another sets of
nama/rupah. Objects are waves in the Ocean of Existence. (Check your experience
right now).
Now when I say this is all "ONE Existence", then, that is Knowing only on my
part. Therefore, you can now see that Existence is called SAT and Knowing of it
as such is called Chit aspect of our inner experience. Thus, Sat-Chit or Being
and Knowing is the only Truth/Reality of all our experiences, and they happen to
"I" only so, "I" is thus Sat-Chit first. It is one single Experience of Being
which is translated as Consciousness(Brahman) in Vedanta.
When "I" realizes this, then Ananda is natural outcome as all desires to grab
objects(limitations) come to end(because they none other than "I"), and Purnata,
Wholeness is regained! This is Vasudeva Sarvameti"

So, let us start this journey now!

Namaskar............Pratap Bhatt

-----------------------------------------------

Sabhi Sadhakji Pranaam.
My humble level of intellect and comprehension feels that one of the ways to
understand Him is to involve ourselves streamlined in His omnipresence without
selfish resistance.Or in very simple words,dance to the tune of Divine
manifestation."tera bhana meetha laage",says a religious verse.At the moment my
comrehension is bound by interpretations of Verse 5 of Chapter 9 of Srimad
Bhagwat Geeta beheld through observations of astronomy.
subhashtewari

----------------------------------------------
Dear Sadaks,
First step of Sadana is the question,"who am I". Like Swamy Vivekananda was
asking. You are Jeeva, given body of 5 elements to do Sadana and raise to GOD.
This same body can also be used to commit sins. Choice is ours.
B.S

-------------------------------------------------


I AM A SOUL
I AM A PART OF A SUPERSOUL
SOUL IS IN HEART
GOD CAN THUS CAN NOT BE REALIZED BY BRAIN
GOD CAN THUS BE REALIZED BY DIVINE LIGHT IN HEART

YOGAM CHIT VRITTE NIRUDHAM

WHEN THE COLLECTIVE CONCIOUSNESS SETTLE IN PURE
COLLECTIVE HEART OR
COLLECTIVE OCEAN OF ALL SOULS
THEN ALONE THE GOD REALIZATION COMES

"Dr. Puneet Gupta"
------------------------------------------

Hari Om

The questioner has asked two Qs. 1 Who am I (Self) ? 2 How to realise Self ?
I don't give much importance to the Q as to where ' I ' is situate in body. It
is the BEST Q which has ever been asked on this Forum. I have divided the answer
in 3 parts. One- Who am I ? Two- What is Self/God Realisation 3 How to realise
Self/God.

Before I go ahead, let me state that Param Shraddheya Swamiji Ramsukhdasji
Maharaj was also a divine 'scientist' (inventor/discoverer) in His own right.
JUST AS: In the material world, a lot of new inventions keep taking place
SIMILARLY: In Spiritual world also, new methodologies of God/Self Realisation do
take place.

The style of Swamiji has been that of such inventor.

PLEASE understand at the outset the following (from the Pravachan of Swamiji
Himself) :

" One who wants Realization , can get that, irrespective of however he /she is,
eligible, non eligible, of pure antahkarana, or of highly impure
antahkarana...sinner , virtuous..of any caste, creed, color, religion..!!! ONLY
condition is : He should be 'Desirous' of Realisation. If some one does not
want, and he has no 'lagan' (earnest desire) - then I can not help him"

His methods of Realization are:

1 Scientific 2 Simple 3 the Easiest
4 Logical 5 Accessible to all---(no conditions except 'chahna' - Lagan- earnest
desire) 6 In conformity with all Scriptures (Never in contradiction with any
Scripture of Sanatan Dharma). 7 Capable of giving INSTANT results (Right now..no
expectation of 'Future')
8 Effortless 9 Many ..in plenty 10 Practical and 11 Comprehensible even to the
most dull...and

12 Guaranteed

.....and hence .... 13. REVOLUTIONARY !!

Pay attention, Divine Sadhaks, pay attention ! Do not hesitate to ask Qs if you
find any difficulty in understanding. BUT PLEASE PAY sincere, honest attention.

This posting addresses - Who am I ?

WHO AM I (PURUSHA) ?

Your form is 'ONLY EXISTENCE' - Satta Matra ! Actually, you are not body nor you
are with body- you are body-less. It is only to make you understand easily your
form, that Gita calls you 'shareeri' (one who resides in body) ! To call you
'shareeri' means - You are not body.

In the ONLY EXISTENCE , all 3 viz Past, Present and Future are absent. You are
beyond Time (timeless) !

In Self , there is no other existence except that of Self.

SELF has no power or ability EXCEPT to associate / disassociate (other words-
connect/disconnect; accept/reject; affirm/negate; attach/detach... ) .

Self is TOTALLY and COMPLETELY - action-less (nishkriya) !

You are indestructible, sentient, faultless (perfect), stainless, and blissful
by your very basic form. You are AMRITASYA PUTRA- the direct fragment/part of
God and God only and of no other element except God. There is no element of
Prakruti in you.

You are changeless. You are desireless. You are 'suddha- buddha- mukta' (pure,
knowledgeable and free ) by your basic form !

You are one sentient element. This sentient element, only for the sake of
explanation/understanding, is known as 'kshetragya' (knower of field) in
comparison to 'kshetra' (field) ; 'imperishable' (akshar) in comparison to
'kshar' (perishable) ; 'shareeri'(residing in body) in comparison to 'body' ;
'seer' in comparison to 'seen/scene' ; 'witness' in comparison with what is
getting witnessed...actually there is no name of Self !

You are called 'Jeeva' when you are associated with body and 'Brahma' when you
are not associated with body.

SELF IS EXPERIENCE FORM !!

Body was not there before, nor will it remain afterwards. But your existence was
there before, will remain afterwards, and IS there now also..

'I AM' - this knowledge of self existence is there in everybody. Before entering
the deep sleep state whoever was me, after getting up the same 'I am'- this
knowledge of self existence remains constant in everybody. NO ONE ever
experiences knowledge of his 'non existence' !

To take birth and die - this is not our Dharma (trait/characteristics) , this is
dharma of body. Our age is beginningless and endless, in the tenure of which
many bodies take birth and keep dying.

Self is neither visible (scene/seen), nor seer, nor subject matter of knowledge,
nor is the knower. This 'seer' and 'seen' is appearing in a 'state'. Seer and
seen will not remain, but Self will remain; because 'state' goes, Self remains.

There are 6 modifications in body- to take birth, to appear existing, to change,
to grow, to deteriorate, to die..! Self is sans these 6.

Death of body does not cause any loss to Self. So far we have adopted
uncountable bodies, but what difference that has made to us? What loss ? Nothing
! We have remained - AS IT IS ! Similarly: We shall remain AS IT IS after death
of present body also.

Actually, Self does not need body ! Without body also, Self can remain in bliss.

In SELF, there is neither 'doing' nor 'not doing' - Self is beyond both. Self is
'action/activity less' and is the illuminer /lighter (prakashak) of all. 'Doing'
and 'not doing' - this arises only where there is AHAM ( I ) !

Self realises Self inside Self only and by the help of Self only.

To be contd...!

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
-----------------------------------------------------------

You are a manifestation of God and God Himself. As manifestation of God in live
in the five bodies and beyond them as wellas God. This is True of anything in
the Universe. You can Realize this Truth throughout your life as you work, think
and whatever else you do by reminding yourself that whatever you see, think,
perceive, meet, interact and every thing else is nothing but God and neither you
nor others are different manifestation of God. Then you love every thing and
hate, despise or avoid nothing because you know you have no desire, no fear, no
anger, no jealousy: even as your gunas drive you to act, think and work as they
like, you just witness that as an independent observer. That's the real full You
as God. If you are so destined, you will reach that stage.
Basudeb Sen

---------------------------------------------------

REPLY TO FOLLOW-UP QUESTION
Till you continue asking Question [who am I?] and till you are knowing [I am not
in five bodies] realisation isn't there as one [whom you know as 'I'] is
SARVAGAT as per Verse 24 Chapter 2 in Saadhaka-Sanjeevanee page 77 [located
everywhere] hence no location can be named for its abode.
Humbly,
Saadhaka.

-------------------------------------------------------

So long as you remain in the mind, this question has validity. But then you will
not be finding who you are, only what your mind understands you to be. As the
subject, the witness, one could say on negating all identification with the
external (through neti neti) that 'I am not the body, I am not the mind, I am
pure consciousness', but in fact this is still a mind-concept - one still
remains in the mind. In actual fact, 'I', 'you' are concepts of the mind.
Outside of the mind, there is no 'you'; conciousness simply is, there is merely
witnessing. Without witnessing, there is no witness nor witnessed.

How to realise 'oneself'? Remaining in awareness, watch the body (with its
labels) and then the mind until absolute identification with them is ceased.
They belong to prakrti, not consciousness. Awareness is the light that
illuminates these. In short, just be, do nothing. The body and mind will act
through the the three gunas and the unfoldment of one's prarabdha karma. If
'you' identify with this mind-body complex, there exists doership, there exists
the idea 'I am the doer'. In pure witnessing, there is no agency. Well, there
wouldn't be, would there; does consciousness act?! It merely is.

The late and great Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj made famous from the dialogues that
formed the modern literary classic I AM THAT earnestly 'reflected' on the I AM
under the instruction of his sadguru. He was a simpleton who began this daily
sadhana at the age of 34 and he claimed that through this method, affectionately
called Nisarga yoga, his realisation 'took place' in three years.

RH

----------------------------------------------------


Dear Geeta Sadhakas, Namaskar,

I would like to refer to shloka 12 from Geeta Adhyaya 2.

Te tvevaaham jaatu naasam na tvam neme janaadhipaah |

Na chaiva na bhavishyaamah sarve vayamatah param | (Gita 2/12)

A time never existed when I, you and all these kings and elderly relatives were
not existing and there will not be any time in future when all of us will not be
existing.

In simple terms, it means that all of us were always present in the past and all
of us are going to be always present in future, till the Earth can sustain life.

The scientific interpretation of this shloka ::::

It can be undoubtedly inferred, that Maharshi Vyasa was aware of the process of
Evolution of the Life Forms (Sajeevas) on this Planet Earth.

It is now proved with sufficient data, that early life (sajeeva incluing plants
and trees) appeared on this Planet Earth, some 3.5 billion Earth Years back.
Those life forms were able to procure their food, digest it to produce enough
biochemical energy to exist on this planet, move about in search of food, they
could multiply asexualy or sexualy and their number constantly increased. They
had sense organs as well as sex organs. They could reproduce their own species.

All these activities of Life Forms were possible because of the Genetic Code…
Aanuvamshik Tatwa

It is still not known scientifically, how this Genetic Material, Genetic Code,
Aanuvamshik Tatwa appeared on this Planet Earth …the root cause of the
beginning of Life…but the immediate explanation by the Great Thinkers of the
Past (GTPs) was through intuition, …the concept of a CREATER…A Creater
created this Universe and all its contents, including Life.

The life, having created or having got created, is existing since the past 3.5
billion years. It is the Aanuvamshik Tatwa that assumes the Physical Body. This
is Purusha and Prakruti. The Anuvamshik Tatwa is the Soul…. Atma of Life
Forms…Sajeevas.

The genetic code altered by mutations or by the process of adaptability to the
environment, and thus a variety of species evolved, while the species from which
new species were evolved also existed. During this vast span of Time,many
species got extinct while many species were created….The culmination of the
Evolution was the species of….. Homo Sapiens….modern Humans.

It is now scientifically concluded that the Genetic Material, the Genetic Code
orAnuvamshik Tatwa and Aanuvamshik Genetic Programs are existing on this Planet
since 3.5 billion years and is going to exist till the Earth can sustain life.

It is this Aanuvamshik Tatwa that has assumed the Physical Bodies of Me, of You
and of all the Kings in the past. And is going to assume the Physical Bodies of
life forms till this Earth can sustain Life..

Thus it has been stated in this great Shloka of Geeta, that all the Sajeevas
existed in the past and all of them are going to exist in future as well.


Since the Anuvamshik Tatwa can multiply and increase in number, the population
of the World is increasing, inspite of the fact that, millions of Sajeevas are
killed everyday.



…..Gee Waman

----------------------------------------------

Rear Respected Gita-talk mamber,

Who you are? It depends on what you think. You thinking
sets direction to your life which defines you. Your thinking
is totally under your control and you decide to define "who
you are". You can take your life to positive or negative and
accordingly it will define you.

for example, if you "throw away your thoughts: and pray in
thinking then you will excel in your work, forget your painful
past and "wash" karma such that in 3+ years your can place
yourself to bi-pass premonitions around the age of of 75 years
and head for better life next life. Alternatively, you can choose to keep
your present thinking all your life and go down with it. Your
premonition around age 75 years be negative in this case. This way
you choose to define yourself.

Good Luck! Bye!

----------------------------------------------

dear brother , when Hanuman ji was asked by bhagavan Ram to express the
relationship between Him AND Ram. His reply was that because of body i am your
servant , because of jeevi i am part of you, and because of my Atma i am verily
you. Thus the individual is to cross the three stages of dwait,vashishit adwait,
and adwait is the answer to your inquiry.

CK KAUL

---------------------------------------------

very very enlightening posts ,vyas nb,and pratap bhatt bhai --you people have
explained god who we are in really very nice way ,thanks .jai shree krishnaÂ

-------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

We get a lot of inputs from Scriptures and Realised Souls, Saints and Sages
about our Eternal Father, Param Pita Parameshwar. To His children, viz to us,
the most important thing is not as to HOW IS HE but is that HE IS OURS and WE
ARE HIS . A child does not look at the traits of mother, does not know as to how
is she of him/her...a child has no doubt , however, that MOTHER IS MINE.

You can't get peace till you get Him. Like you He too is very eager to meet with
you. You may forget Him but He never forgets you, He never disowns you. This
world (Jagat) has been made by Paramatma (Jagdish) for you (Jeeva), but you have
been made by Paramatma for Himself. Hence in this Jagat, whatever happens with
reference to you is ONLY AND EXCLUSIVELY for your turning towards Him, rushing
towards Him. All Laws of Mother Nature operating in this Jagat are for inviting
your attention and for attracting you towards Him. Paramatma becomes very happy
when you say: O Lord..I am yours. He becomes very happy just as a father becomes
very happy when child claims rights over him.

It is endeavour of Paramatma and His Laws that whenever you connect yourself
with Jagat, He ensures your disconnection with Jagat. Why? So that you may get
attracted to Yoga (permanent connection with Paramatma). He never let's you get
peace, happiness while you are worldly. Why? So that you may turn towards Him.
He gives you sorrows. Why? So that you may renounce the desire for the world. If
you take one step towards Him, He takes 10 .Why? So that you may unite with your
Father faster. He strengthens your belief in Him. Why? So that you do not
despair. If reciprocates to your striving as you see Him in your striving. Why?
So that you remain enthusiastic and not lose focus.

List is endless. Everything which is done by Nature, everything which happens in
this world, every Law and provision, every incidence, every situation, every
circumstance, every status...everything has ONLY ONLY one goal: So that Jeeva
connects with Jagdish and disconnects with Jagat.

Says Lord in 9:10: Under My superintendence Nature has created this world to be
EVERCHANGING.

Why? So that Jeeva may rush towards loving arms of his Eternal Father !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B

-------------------------------------------------

Who are we?Mostly we are parasites born on and brought up by earth,spend life
and perish here.The most significant thing about us is that despite being
insignificant in the universe,we have acquired significant knowledge and working
capacity.All that we lack is harmonious attitude and good manners.Our
achievements had been and are great.As regards who is god,I prefer not to reduce
His stature with my humble words,nevertheless,I suggest you to analyse a picture
of Lord Krishna as a central figure playing flute and various gopis acting to
His charm.It was perhaps the same thing told to Devi Meerabai by Guru Ramanandji
at Benarus.He alone is the male,all other are gopis.
subhashtewari

---------------------------------------------------------

Hari Om

Hey Humble Saadhakjee ! Hey Mahapurush !! Aapke message hriday ko gadgad kar
dete hai ! Mera sadhuvaad!!

Ek varnan Prabhu ka ye bhi hai ki Ve anaadi hain, Ve Prakruti se pare hain,
Purushottam hain, sadaiva Samata main sthir rahate hain, Deendayaal hain,
Deenanath hain, Sarva Samartha hain, Sarvagya hain, Param Dayaalu hain, Keshav
hain, Bhagat vatsal hain, Paramatma hain, Parampitaa hain, Parameshwar hain,
Gopaal hain, Govind hain, Giridhar hain, Param paavan hain, ...! Swamiji ki
kitaabo main ye varnan bhi to aaya hee hoga naa, Maanyavar Mahoday ? Swamiji ki
kitaabo main Bhagwaan ke svabhaav ka varnan bhi aaya hoga. Aaya hoga na Sir? To
kyon nahin ham usee se kaam chalale ? Shrimaanji- Bhakti kyaa hoti hai? Bhagwaan
ki leelaao ka gungaan bhi bhakti ka ek roop hai. Ye baat theek hai ki Jeeva or
Jagdish dono varnanateet hai parantu ye baat bhi to theek hai ki Bhagwaan ke
SAGUN SAKAAR roop ka varnan shashro main huaa hai, khoob huva hai, jam kar huvaa
hai ! Kyon huva hai jab Bhagvaan varnanateet hain ? Aapne Swamiji ka ek lekh
padhaa hai- 'VARNANATEET KA VARNAN' ? To Bhaiyyaji - Jaise Param Shraddheya
Swamiji Maharaj ne 'Varnanateet' maanate huve bhi varnan kiya, vaise hi aap bhi
varnanateet maante huve varnan karle to kyaa eitraaj hai ? Bhakti bhi ho
jaayegi. Kyaa Jachee ?

ENGLISH TRANSLATION:

One description of God is also that He is sanatan, eternal, beyond Nature, ever
positioned in Equanimity, superior to humans, the most kind and benevolent, all
powerful, all knowing, the protector and controller of universe...! Has not He
been described so in the books of Param Shraddheya Swamiji Maharaj accordingly?
There is SAGUN SAKAAR form of Paramatma also. Scriptures are full of singing His
glories and describe in many ways. One form of Bhakti is also 'singing His
glories/deliberating/talking about Him' !! Even Swamiji has written an article -
Describing the Undescribable !! Isn't it? So what is wrong, Sir, if we also
describe Him the way we want to, inspite of He continuing to remain beyond
description? Pranaams

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
-------------------------------------------------
God!!!!!!!!!!!!
hello from nyc in t he blizzard
LOve these replies today I am Very grateful for the dedication of members
moksh
Sophia
-------------------------------------------------

Dear Ones, Namaste!
As our humble Sadhakji has pointed, God cannot be described in words, can never
be an object of our perception by means of sense organs, and mind.
Why, because if God is such an object, it has to have a name, if so then God
becomes limited like any another object of our experience, which cannot be the
case!
Based on our own experience of ourselves, if we eliminate all names(son, father,
mother, doctor, engineer, husband, wife, worker, boss etc etc), then what
reemains is pure EXISTENCE, which itself is Consciousness, Knowingness!
Above all this Consciousness is not limited by the objects appearing in it(as
pointed out above)! SO, Pure and undivided TOTAL Existence(devoid of names or
all names included) in our experience is CONSCIOUSNESS! These words also are
merely pointers as is word GOD!

Thus, Who are we? Based on above explanation for satisfying mind, we say WE ARE,
we cannot say who by saying this or that names, simply WE ARE!
Again "WE" doesn't refer to individual body-mind organism, rather, points to
experience of BEING.
similarly Who is GOD? God is just a name to communicate the inner experience of
BEING CONSCIOUS, which is impersonal, unlimited by any name!
Since BEING CONSCIOUS is always present in Waking, Dream, Sleep states of our
being, it is our nature, our REALITY, and thus called CONSCIOUSNESS!
See that all objects we know arise or appear and disappear just as waves in the
OCEAN or WATER, but only WATER remains! Such is GOD!
Namaskar...............Pratap Bhatt

---------------------------------------------------

Hari SharaNam,

Who am "I"? I will let the questioner seek its answer by himself/herself.
Knowing "I" does not guarantee knowing the "GOD" but knowing "GOD", nothing
remains unkown, whole integral system is known.

So, Who is "GOD"? It can/must not be defined by the imagination of limited
capacities of the human minds.

Vedanta Darshan, in very beginning, defines the GOD as "the one from whom the
world is created, sustained & dissolved " ( JANMAADASYA YATAH ; BrahmSutra -
1/1/2). This definition is not the creation/imagination of the author's mind
although the author is beyond the realized souls. This definition is based upon
the scriptures (SHAASTRAYONITVAAT ; BrahmSutra - 1/1/3).

Taittiriya Upanishad -3/1 also defines "GOD" as the one from whom everything is
created, maintained and dissolved.
YATO VAA IMAANI BHOOTAANI JAAYANTE | YEN JAATAANI JEEVANTI |
YATPRAYANTYABHISAMVISHANTI | TATVIJIGAASAVA | TATBRAHMETI |

Srimad Bhagavad PuraaNa also starts with the same word "JANMAADASYA YATAH"
(1/1/1) to offer prayer to the GOD.

Patanjali Ji MaharaaJ, in his Yog Darshan, just after mentioning the Sutra
"ISWARPRANIDHAANAADVAA -1/23" (i.e. one can also attain the goal by surrendering
to the God), says "... PURUSHHA VISHESHA ISHWAR-1/24" i.e. GOD is VISHESHA
PURUSHHA. Please note the word "VISHESHHA". Bhagavad Gita calls GOD as
UTTAM/PARAM PURUSHHA/ATMAA/BRAHM (10/12,13/12, 15/17-18).

Kapil Ji Maharaaj, in his Sankhya Darshan (3/55-57), also says ISWAR is the one
which directs/controls PRAKRRITI thats why ISHWAR is called SARVAVIT
SARVAKARTAA.

May all be blessed!
Niteesh Dubey

--------------------------------------------------------

Question: who are we?
Answer : You are being (Is-ness, Existence) only, nothing else. [hamaaraa
swaroop sattaamaatra hai. maanavamaatrake kalyaanake liye page 149].
Question: who is God?
Answer : Whosoever speaks about God [paramaatmaa], only speaks of what is learnt
from others only as One who has realized God, can't describe [varnanaateet kaa
varnan naheen kiyaa jaa sakataa] Remember "jahaan varnan hai, vahaan tattva
naheen hai aur jahaan tattva hai, vahaan varnan naheen hai."
[saadhan-sudhaa-sindhu page 58].
Humbly,
Saadhaka.

-----------------------------------------------
Dear sadaks,
We are Jeevathumas (Numeral but finite) and God is Paramathuma.(Singular and
infinite)
B.Sathyanarayan

-----------------------------------------------

Hari Om

Great Divine Question befitting this great Divine G T Forum !

Who are we ? We are children of God. Who is God ? God is our Father- The eternal
father. Our ONLY OWN.

We are tired travellers and God is final destination.

We are water in clouds, rivers, ponds , atmosphere, gutters, pipes etc and God
is ocean. We must reach ocean because till we do not reach there we can not be
peaceful. Till we reach ocean, we must flow /change forms and must remain
peace-less and sorrowful ! Where is happiness without peace? We want happiness,
only happiness, absolute happiness.

We are players and God is Umpire and Captain .

We are strivers (sadhaks) and God is Goal (Sadhya) !

We are students and God is Teacher.

We are dumbs and God is Jaggery.

We are thirsty and God is Water.

We are Purushas and God is Purushottam.

We are actors and God is Director.

We are atmas and God is Paramatma.

We are wives and God is husband.

We are SARVAM and God is VASUDEV.

We are pebbles and God is Himalaya.

We are clouds and God is Sky.

We are rays and God is the Sun.

We are body and God is Heart.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
------------------------------------------

Who am I? … What is God? …



Interesting indeed …



We have to understand one thing before we step forward here. A question raises
only due to a need and will wield its authority until the need is mitigated. It
would not subside until then, no matter what rationale we can amass around the
same! Therefore, no question can ever be "answered"! Also, no question ever
"exists" on its own either!! Therefore, it is wise to look at the need that
triggered the questions rather than wasting resources on the questions
themselves.



What makes the current questions all the more interesting, rather intriguing?!
The underlying need remains mystical from one's appreciation.



Who am I? The need for this question is to identify oneself in order to interact
with others. Such a need keeps varying in its texture and demands. But, almost
always it is rooted in some other need! Also, the very identification depends on
alien entities rather than oneself. How can such a needy and dependent state of
existence can ever sustain?! Such states are born only to decay and die. Of
course, new needs originate from the carcass perpetually - Sasyamiva pachyate
martyah sasyamivaajaayate punah! Eventually, the question remains "unanswered"
as ever ...



Who am I? Rather everything knows its answer. If at all I know anything, it
should be the "I" as such! How can this "I" know anything else without knowing
Itself?! And, yet … THAT is the last thing one can ever explain for sure! Why?
Because, the very notion of explanation is hinged on entities other than
oneself!! Therefore, even if the whole universe is explained THAT cannot be!!!
Therefore IT IS THE ONLY known ever and is known even to the most ignorant of
all; and yet, it remains unknown to the most intelligent ever - Yasyaamatam
tasya matam matam yasya na veda sah! Why? Everything is predisposed to seek
outward rather than inward - Paraanchi khaani vyatriNaat svayambhooh !!



What is God? The question is self-deceptive! Who can know that?! By definition
God ought to be Omnipresent, Omnipotent and Omniscient transcending all the
dominions of existence - time-space, matter-energy, knowledge-ignorance or any
other - categorically. Then how can any fathom what THAT could be when all these
cosmic dominions put together cannot even have a glimpse of the same??!! SURELY,
IT IS AN IMPOSSIBLE QUESTION TO ANSWER. But, why then this question is the most
intriguing as well as ancient to the human mind???!!!



Who is God? Again, a question has no rationale for its own basis except that it
believes to stand on a need. To start with, the body-mind cluster that is
baffled with its own limitations in its existential loci starts appreciating the
fact that its paths are verily carved by many external forces acting upon it
simultaneously and perpetually. Then it lands into a deeper level of baffling
when it realizes that every entity is subjected to the same limitations. It
starts wondering then ... Who could be operating these entities to act the way
they do! What force could be binding these to be what they are?!What
intelligence is bridging communication between them??!! In whose belly this
infinitude of existence survives as is???!!! Who ensures integrity in their
existence as well as in their transactions????!!!!. The mystery deepens as one
"progresses".



Again, why one entertains this question? Why a Duryodhana wants to bind a
KrishNa, THE FREEDOM as such?! The reson is simple. One is paranoid of one's
very existence due to the uncertainties in one's transactions with the world
around. One wants to settle this uncertainty positively. That is a survival
need. No uncertainty can let any being sleep tight! As one remains utterly
unsuccessful to keep one's loci of living for certain, the question keeps
haunting from within ... who is this fellow? who is this God??



Kenshitam patati preshitam manah kena praaNah prathamah praiti yuktah |

Keneshitaam vaachamimaam vadandti chakshuh shrotram ka vu devo yunakti ||



Unless the needs - to identify oneself and to understand what governs
transactions around - are mitigated, the questions remain engraved in one's
consciousness. Only when one starts appreciating the self-effulgence of the "I",
one could retard one's query "Who am I?". "I" was, is and will be forever
independent of the objective relations one would ever perceive!! Similarly, only
when one realizes the potential of an all-pervasive universal reality, the
question "What is God?" starts fading from the horizons.



But the questions ought to and will remain in their subtle forms till the "I"
and "God" remain discrete to each other! The need to question this discreteness
further is to mitigate the very needs we started with.



Is there anything that is devoid of an "I"? Nothing can ever exist without this
self-manifestation. It is fundamental for the very existence. If one "I" is
different from another, who else is there to establish the obvious and unbroken
communication between the two? When nothing exists without "I" how can this
third party be other than "I"? Really speaking, what is this "I"?! Can anyone be
isolated as such ... as some "one"?? Everything across the universe is a single
monolithic existence from which not even an atom can set itself apart!! Then why
identity? and, what uncertainty?? When no identities are needed and when no
uncertainties can ever exist ... how can there be a question "Who am I?" and
"What is God?"? ... THAT is everything one can ever fathom and beyond ...
Pratibodhaviditam matam amritam ... I AM THAT ... Aham Brahmaasmi ... THAT IS
EVERYTHING ... Sarvam khalu idam brahmaa ...



Till then … Who am I?! … What is God??!! … What is all these???!!! … let us roll
as the questions demand … we will roll till we realize we can opt not to … we
will roll till we opt NOT TO!!!



Respects.


Naga Narayana.
-----------------------------------------------------

Shree Hari
Ram Ram

18th January, 2012, Wednesday
Maagh Krishna Dashami, Budhvar, Vikram Samvat 2068

God is Waiting for Us

The curtain that is seen between God and us, the distance that is seen, the
separation that is perceived, is in fact our own creation, not God's doing, as
God is Omnipresent and is present at all times. Not only that, He is closer than
our assumed sense of My-ness. He is present As-is even in the most fallen and
degraded ones as well. Therefore spiritual aspirants must want that they should
accept their Beloved within themselves, and become free from all anxiety or
worries "nischint". When besides God there is acceptance of no other entity,
then an aspirant will attain his Beloved within himself. However, as long as
within remains the assumption - "I am the body" till then he will attain nothing
but the world.

He who sees His Beloved in other individuals, in saints and great souls, in
scriptures etc, he will have to experience separation from his Beloved. However,
he who sees his Beloved within himself, he does not have to suffer the
separation with his beloved. However close you may see your Beloved when seen as
separate, there will most definitely be feeling of separation. However, when the
Beloved is seen as inseparable (within us) then an eternal affinity is
established. As long as the aspirant's inner senses perceive the existence of
many, till then he cannot experience an eternal affinity with his Beloved,
rather he wanders from place to place in this world to attain his Beloved.

An aspirant should never feel a sense of hopelessness with the real essence
(tattva), because the aspirant has complete eligibility, rights and potential
for realization of the supreme truth. It is a rule that he who can enjoy worldly
pleasures, he can also turn away from the world and experience bliss. He who can
develop attachment and aversion in the world, he can also renounce attachment
and aversion and be able to truly love as well. He who can engage in sense
pleasures, he can also renounce pleasures and be able to attain "Yog"
(equanimity). He who has the ability to adopt, also has the ability to denounce.

Man endowed with desires can never love anyone. Therefore a man of desires
cannot be a true believer in God. Man becomes a true believer in God, when in
his eyes besides the one Beloved (God) –nothing else remains. Such a true
believer attains Love by God's grace. Although God's grace is showering equally
on all beings, then too that grace is only experienced when man entirely becomes
only God's. Not accepting the existence of anyone else, is becoming God's.

Besides the One God, there is no one else who is my Beloved (Lover). When
besides God when we love anyone else, then that love destroys "sanhaar" you and
the other. This is not love, it is attachment. It is only the Love for one's own
country that destroys "sanhaar" other countries; attachment to one's own
organization / group that destroys "sanhaar" other organizations; attachment to
one's own race, caste, type, "jaati" that destroys other race, caste, type,
"jaati".

If besides the one God, if all other wants are renounced, then God will come
without our calling and the world will disappear for you without trying. Hope of
His attainment in the future is a mistake. One must serve others. Let there not
be the slightest bit of affinity with the body and the world - this is true
"renunciation" and besides That One God, do not accept the existence of anyone
else, not even the slightest bit - this itself is Love.

He who is filled with desire, that being alone cannot love. Because desires are
of the world and Love is of God. Man filled with desires is a worshipper of
worldly sense objects. Whereas a man filled with Love, is a worshipper of God.
The worshipper of the world becomes dependent and the worshipper of God becomes
independent. (to be continued)

From "Sant Samaagam" in Hindi by Swami Ramsukhdasji

If in doubt regarding the translation, please read the original Hindi message by
Swamiji.

FOR MESSAGE IN HINDI PLEASE VISIT Date : 16th January, 2012 "BHAGWAAN HAMAARI
PRATIKSHAA KAR RAHE HAI"

http://www.satcharcha.blogspot.com/

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