UN Integrated Regional Information Networks June 24, 2003 Brazzaville
Sixty Republic of Congo refugees arrived in Point-Noire on Friday at
the start of a repatriation programme for some 15,000 of them in
neighbouring Gabon, city officials reported in a communiqué.
The Prefecture of Kouilou in Point-Noire, the highest civil authority
in the city and its surroundings, reported that the first 60 refugees
were flown into the city because roads were impassable.
However, it said that other refugees would be bused home during the
dry season from July to October. They will make the 700 km journey
from Tchimanga, in the Haut-Ogooue area of southeast Gabon, to Point-
Noire, from where they will be taken to their villages.
The Office of the UN High Commissioner for Refugees said it would
provide each returning refugee with 50,000 francs CFA (US $91.50).
The agency, ROC, and Gabon are due to meet on Monday to organise the
repatriation by the least expensive method. Thousands of Congolese
fled their country during the 1997-2001 civil war.
and already has a pact with Gabon to use its airports for refueling.
By ERIC SCHMITT The New York Times WASHINGTON, July 4
The United States military is seeking to expand its presence in the
Arab countries of northern Africa and in sub-Saharan Africa through
new basing agreements and training exercises intended to combat a
growing terrorist threat in the region. Even as military planners
prepare options for American troops to join an international
peacekeeping force to oversee a cease-fire in Liberia, the Pentagon
wants to enhance military ties with allies like Morocco and Tunisia.
It is also seeking to gain long-term access to bases in countries
like Mali and Algeria, which American forces could use for periodic
training or to strike terrorists. And it aims to build on aircraft
refueling agreements in places like Senegal and Uganda, two
countries that President Bush is to visit on his five-nation swing
through Africa that begins on Tuesday.
There are no plans to build permanent American bases in Africa,
Defense Department officials say. Instead, the United States
European Command, which oversees military operations in most of
Africa, wants troops now in Europe to rotate more frequently into
bare-bones camps or airfields in Africa. Marines may spend more time
sailing off the West African coast.
This fall the command will send trainers to work with soldiers from
four North African nations on patrolling and gathering intelligence.
Some plans are still on the drawing board and will need the approval
of Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld or his top aides. But other
military initiatives in Africa are already under way or will soon
begin. Since late last year, for example, more than 1,800 members of
the American military have been placed in Djibouti to conduct
counterterrorism operations in the Horn of Africa.
The military's commitment and costs in Africa would still be low
compared with missions in the Persian Gulf or Korean Peninsula, but
commanders say emerging threats require the Pentagon to pay more
attention to the continent. "Africa, as can be seen by recent
events, is certainly a growing problem," Gen. James L. Jones of the
Marine Corps, the head of the European Command, said in an interview
this week. "As we pursue the global war on terrorism," the general
said, "we're going to have to go where the terrorists are. And we're
seeing some evidence, at least preliminary, that more and more of
these large uncontrolled, ungoverned areas are going to be potential
havens for that kind of activity."
United States military and intelligence officials say vast swaths of
the Sahara, from Mauritania in the west to Sudan in the east, which
have been smuggling routes for centuries, are becoming areas of
choice for terrorist groups, including Al Qaeda. General Jones said
an allied maritime armada in the Mediterranean had forced
international drug smugglers, weapons traffickers, Islamic
extremists and other terrorists south to overland routes through
Africa.
The countries in the area are some of the poorest in the world and
have scant resources to monitor their borders or patrol the large
remote areas of their interiors. "What we don't want to see in
Africa is another Afghanistan a cancer growing in the middle of
nowhere," said Maj. Gen. Jeffrey B. Kohler of the Air Force, the
European Command's director of plans and policy, who is to visit
Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria this month. "That's what we're trying
to prevent."
Since the end of major combat in Iraq the United States has diverted
reconnaissance aircraft and satellites to watch the region more
closely and share that information with governments there, a senior
military official said. The signs of Al Qaeda's presence are still
emerging and, in some cases, under debate. Intelligence analysts are
examining potential Al Qaeda links to suicide bombers who attacked
five targets in Casablanca, Morocco, in May. Al Qaeda has already
been tied to an attack on a synagogue in Tunisia in April 2002 that
killed 21 people, and the car bombings of the United States
Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998, in which 224 people died.
There are also home-grown terrorist organizations, which some
officials say have connections to Al Qaeda, like the Salafist Group
in Algeria, which abducted more than 30 European tourists earlier
this year. The group has about 750 hard-core members, but its
affiliates and sympathizers number in the thousands, intelligence
officials say. "These are groups that are similar to Al Qaeda, but
not as sophisticated or with the same reach, but the same
objectives," said Gen. Charles F. Wald of the Air Force, the
European Command's second-in-charge. "They're bad people, and we
need to keep an eye on that." In a sign of Africa's growing
prominence, General Wald, who led American air forces in the Afghan
war, now spends about half of his time on African-related issues.
The European Command is preparing to hold a conference of the
defense attachés from United States embassies on the continent
and,
increasingly, ambassadors as well, General Jones said. The
military's entreaties to expand and deepen ties to Africa are
receiving largely positive responses from many of those
countries. "We are very much interested in expanding our cooperation
with the U.S. in civilian and military fields," said Idriss Jazairy,
Algeria's ambassador to the United States. "We would be ready to
cooperate in training African antiterrorist teams to address this
common challenge."
But some Africa experts warn that the Pentagon, which promotes the
idea of democratization in other Arab states, ought not compromise
those values by dealing with governments with heavy military
influence, like Algeria. "The downside of this is that you can take
on the agenda of local leaders," said Herman J. Cohen, who was
assistant secretary of state for Africa in the administration of the
first President Bush.
The military's renewed focus on Africa pre-dates Mr. Bush's trip,
and is part of an effort by the European Command to reshape where
and how many American troops are based in a 93-country area of
responsibility that arches from South Africa to Russia. That review
is a portion of a global effort by the Defense Department to
determine where to position United States forces.
General Jones said he envisioned what he called a family of bases.
In Africa this would include forward-operating bases, perhaps with
an airfield nearby, that could house up to a brigade, or 3,000 to
5,000 troops. "It's something that could be robustly used for a
significant military presence," General Jones said. A second type of
base would be a forward-operating location, which would be a lightly
equipped base where Special Forces, marines or possibly an infantry
rifle platoon or company could land and build up as the mission
required. "Over all, we're trying to come up with a more flexible
basing option that allows more engagement through our area of
responsibility," General Jones said.
The Pentagon made early strides a few years ago, when it negotiated
agreements with Ghana, Senegal, Gabon, Namibia, Uganda and Zambia to
allow American aircraft flying through the region to refuel at local
air bases.
In the fall, the Defense and State Departments will begin a $6.25
million program to provide training, as well as radios and Toyota
pickup trucks, to company-size army units in Mauritania, Mali, Niger
and Chad. "If we do this we can make friends who, when they get
information out on patrol, can share with us," said one senior
military officer.
American Special Forces and the Army's 173rd Airborne Brigade have
conducted joint exercises with Moroccan troops in the last three
years, and military officials say they would like to expand and
increase those contacts.
A lifelong collection of rare Gabon history from the l9th and 20th
centuries has been donated to Princeton Theological Seminary (PTS)
by an alumn, the Rev. Dr. Henry Hale Bucher, Jr., a Texas educator.
Bucher said he intentionally spent many decades collecting West
African books, especially about Gabon. Many of the books are written
in African languages, including Mpongwe, Benga, Kele and Fang, and a
large quantity are in their original wrappers, some cloth-bound or
leather-bound.
Bucher's quest to intentionally compile an intact and representative
collection required decades of traveling across Europe, Africa and
the USA. "History is usually written by the colonizers or occupiers,
so I concentrated on collecting and recording the history and
perspectives of the indigenous people of Gabon, especially the
Mpongwe up to l860," he said.
The difficulty of finding written records about Gabon in the l960s
increased Bucher's commitment to create an intact collection of
scholarly information, including the earliest grammars, dictionaries
and Bible translations. They were gathered from across Africa,
Europe and the USA over more than four decades.
The collection also includes items with no fair market value, but
great scholarship value, such as copies of unpublished manuscripts.
Future additions to the collection will include photographs and
audio recordings of oral histories,and records of slave ships and
trade.
"The real value of this donation is about creating a foundation for
future research about Gabon," said Bucher, whose dissertation was
written about "The Mpongwe of the Gabon Estuary: A History to l860".
PTS already has one of the more outstanding U.S. collections of
material about Dr. Albert Schweitzer, who also worked in Gabon.
Bucher's unpublished dissertation about the Mpongwe up through l860
details clan lineages of many individuals with whom Nassau and
Schweitzer worked. It also draws and contrasts information from
traders, ship captains, explorers and diplomats.
After graduating from the American University of Beirut (BA) and
PTS , Bucher Jr. completed a MA and Ph.D. in Comparative World
History (Africa and the Middle East) at University of Wisconsin -
Madison. During this time he spent several years living in Gabon,
first as a Frontier Intern in Mission working under the newly
independent Gabon Evangelical church, co-sponsored by the
Presbyterian Church, the Paris Mission Society, and the World
Student Christian Federation, and later under a Fulbright-Hays grant
for research in Gabon. Bucher's work put him in frequent touch with
Dr. Albert Schweitzer, who was working out of the hospital founded
by Presbyterian missionary Dr. Robert Hamill Nassau.
Bucher's students often hear him say: "We make a living by what we
get. We make a life by what we give." Through his donated archives
Bucher says he hopes future Gabonese and Gabonologists will increase
their knowledge of and respect for African lives, culture and
contributions to the world.
Source: http://allafrica.com/stories/200307110845.html
The government in Gabon has made changes to the constitution which
would allow President Omar Bongo to run for office as many times as
he wishes. The number of presidential election rounds has also been
reduced from two to one.
The Gabonese leader has been in office for 36 years, making him
Africa's second- longest serving leader after the President of Togo,
General Gnassingbe Eyadema.
His current seven-year term is due to end in 2005, after which the
next presidential elections will be held.
A senior opposition politician, Pierre Mamboundou, has criticised
the amendments, saying that they had been made to ensure that
President Bongo held onto power for life. Mr Mamboundou has called
for intervention, saying that the rest of the world should not
remain indifferent to what is happening in Gabon.
"The world has become a big village and the international community
should not remain insensitive to what is happening in Gabon," Mr
Mamboundou told his reporters in the capital, Libreville.
Since President Bongo came to power, the country's constitution has
been amended 16 times.
Mr Mamboundou says the amendments were designed to ensure that
President Bongo remained in power. The opposition leader told his
supporters in Libreville that during the next presidential elections
the population will be mobilised to protect the final outcome. He
did not elaborate.
Source: BBC http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3074931.stm
I was getting hungry for another Theroux travelogue and am pleased
that he delivered.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-
/0618134247/qid=1060050817/sr=2-2/103-5396209-2702214?v=glance&s=books
Like many of us on this board, Paul was a Peace Corps Volunteer in
Africa. He was an English teacher in Malawai during the early 60's.
I agree with Paul that the early 60's was a relatively idyllic period
throughout most of Africa (other than South Africa, the Congo and a
few other countries) when most of the African states became
independent and full of hope for a better (healthier and more
economically stable) future for all.
Forty years later, little hope remains and the lives of most Africans
appear to have worsened. Paul has his theories why this occurred.
Hello all:
I am a new member happy to find this group.
I just read the interview of President Omar Bongo posted on 4/15/2003
and I must say that I was very impressed with his take on the African
geopolitical situation with regards to globalism and democracy.
I have read a lot of press on President Bongo's so-called "grip" on
power in Gabon, but I have read little about the stability that he
has bought to Gabon amid all of the violence that has plagued the
continent throughout the years. He seems to have a great practical
and intellectual capacity to grasp the challenging issues of Africa
in a practical way and I like that a lot in a politician. In this
interview Bongo touches on issues that it seems like few in the
media want to report. Especially in light of the "War on Terrorism"
where we have seen how the Western powers have responded to increase
their hegemony around the world. I like what Bongo has to say and
feel that the Gabonese people should be happy to have a leader with
such intellegence and capacity to govern.
Ciao,
dupont
Hello:
I think that stability in any country in Africa depends more on just
military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all leaders of
states have serious amounts of protection, but does that "keep" them
in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say about the
political challenges Africans have to face. I think that it is
important to focus now on economic development and aid for African
countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the marketing of
resources coming out of most African states are not controlled by the
states themselves but by external entities.
For example, it is important to develop the infrastructure where oil
producing states are actually refining the oil that is produced. Or
where companies marketing the by-products of resources like timber,
gold and diamonds are actually based and run by Africans native to
the region where they are produced. These things are more important
to the development of peoples lives than who is in political control
or what politician has the most money stashed away. I think arguably
that an intelligent and capable African head of state deserves to
have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill Gates for that
matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the stock market
can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource rich African
country!
I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country than Bush or
Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps and bounds
beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why I think that
he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at this time.
We have seen in America how term limits together with the influence
of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the quality of
leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are seeing that it
is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it comes to
political leadership.
Also, what does it say about the leadership of African states if it
is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to gain economic
or political control?
So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda reaches the
ears of those world leaders in power who truly care about the
development of the African continent. Maybe after the debaucle in
Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in the states
will put more effort into understanding what economic development in
Africa means to world stability.
Ciao,
dupont
On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne" <bobutne@...> writes:
>
> M'bolo dupont.
>
> President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably, abdicate)
> the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French (5,000 troops in
> Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting the Presidential
> palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in power. The 500
>
> Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
>
> Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and Britain world
> hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar Bongo is doing
>
> a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US and world.
>
> The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West and is being left
>
> wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain economic and
> political control. I could expound on this for many, many pages on
> here but will desist for now.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ---------------------~-->
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>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a "Bongo house" while my
neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to school and riding on
the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to end up in the water
because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just that - words. Don't
forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government in order to have
control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at Bongo's bank accounts and
then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV. If Bongo is such a
good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his promise to step down
in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever? Ask many Gabonese and
they would vhemently disagree with you.
>From: "dupont6" <dupont3@...>
>Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
>To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
>Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
>
>Hello:
>I think that stability in any country in Africa depends more on just
>military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all leaders of
>states have serious amounts of protection, but does that "keep" them
>in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say about the
>political challenges Africans have to face. I think that it is
>important to focus now on economic development and aid for African
>countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the marketing of
>resources coming out of most African states are not controlled by the
>states themselves but by external entities.
>For example, it is important to develop the infrastructure where oil
>producing states are actually refining the oil that is produced. Or
>where companies marketing the by-products of resources like timber,
>gold and diamonds are actually based and run by Africans native to
>the region where they are produced. These things are more important
>to the development of peoples lives than who is in political control
>or what politician has the most money stashed away. I think arguably
>that an intelligent and capable African head of state deserves to
>have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill Gates for that
>matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the stock market
>can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource rich African
>country!
>I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country than Bush or
>Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps and bounds
>beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why I think that
>he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at this time.
>We have seen in America how term limits together with the influence
>of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the quality of
>leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are seeing that it
>is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it comes to
>political leadership.
>Also, what does it say about the leadership of African states if it
>is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to gain economic
>or political control?
>So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda reaches the
>ears of those world leaders in power who truly care about the
>development of the African continent. Maybe after the debaucle in
>Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in the states
>will put more effort into understanding what economic development in
>Africa means to world stability.
>
>
>Ciao,
>dupont
>
>
>
>
>On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne" <bobutne@...> writes:
>
> >
> > M'bolo dupont.
> >
> > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably, abdicate)
> > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French (5,000 troops in
> > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting the Presidential
> > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in power. The 500
> >
> > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
> >
> > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and Britain world
> > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar Bongo is doing
> >
> > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US and world.
> >
> > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West and is being left
> >
> > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain economic and
> > political control. I could expound on this for many, many pages on
> > here but will desist for now.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > ---------------------~-->
> > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or
> > Lexmark
> > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US &
> > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/JWorlB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
>-~->
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
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WAS ANYBODY IN GABON FROM 1994-96??? IF SO REPLY
MELINDA SCIENCE TEACHER IN BITAM FROM 94-96
bobutne <bobutne@...> wrote:
Gotta agree with the adage- "Power corrupts and absolute power
corrupts absolutely".
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating on Bongo's bank
account will get you nowhere.
Ever thought about working with the President to solve some of the
nations problems?
Here in America we have many of the same problems and this is the
wealthiest country in the world!
We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying schools in inner cities
and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing together. We are
spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time when our schools
need books.
I would also like to ask how is it that having President Bongo step down
be good for Gabon or change the current situation for the better?
I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is dependent on the
French for many things. If the French were to leave would it make
anything better? I think not, it would not make anything better and
getting rid of President Bongo would probably destabilize the country and
the region has the resulting power grab would be like going back in time.
I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to think more about
fighting for power than the issues important for developing their
country.
It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a solution. In Gabon
each citizen must first make an effort to support the state. Only then
will you find the necessary energy to tackle major issues.The founding
fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand Divided We Fall"
Every nation that aspires to economic success must first find a common
ground to stand on.
The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and sure, there are many
who disagree with the President. But there are also many who do not
understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo. Many who do not
understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not only Africans,
but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop their economies in
this new world order.
Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can help the President
lead Gabon into the 21st century.
I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's inauguration speech
when he said, "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can
do for your country."
Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood correctly, can
inspire man to great heights.
ciao,
dupont
On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
writes:
> After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a "Bongo house"
> while my
> neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to school and
> riding on
> the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to end up in
> the water
> because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just that -
> words. Don't
> forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government in order to
> have
> control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at Bongo's bank
> accounts and
> then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV. If Bongo is
> such a
> good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his promise to
> step down
> in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever? Ask many
> Gabonese and
> they would vhemently disagree with you.
>
>
> >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@...>
> >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
> >
> >Hello:
> >I think that stability in any country in Africa depends more on
> just
> >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all leaders of
> >states have serious amounts of protection, but does that "keep"
> them
> >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say about the
> >political challenges Africans have to face. I think that it is
> >important to focus now on economic development and aid for African
> >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the marketing of
> >resources coming out of most African states are not controlled by
> the
> >states themselves but by external entities.
> >For example, it is important to develop the infrastructure where
> oil
> >producing states are actually refining the oil that is produced.
> Or
> >where companies marketing the by-products of resources like
> timber,
> >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by Africans native to
> >the region where they are produced. These things are more
> important
> >to the development of peoples lives than who is in political
> control
> >or what politician has the most money stashed away. I think
> arguably
> >that an intelligent and capable African head of state deserves to
> >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill Gates for that
> >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the stock
> market
> >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource rich African
> >country!
> >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country than Bush or
> >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps and bounds
> >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why I think
> that
> >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at this time.
> >We have seen in America how term limits together with the
> influence
> >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the quality of
> >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are seeing that
> it
> >is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it comes to
> >political leadership.
> >Also, what does it say about the leadership of African states if
> it
> >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to gain
> economic
> >or political control?
> >So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda reaches the
> >ears of those world leaders in power who truly care about the
> >development of the African continent. Maybe after the debaucle in
> >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in the states
> >will put more effort into understanding what economic development
> in
> >Africa means to world stability.
> >
> >
> >Ciao,
> >dupont
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne" <bobutne@...>
> writes:
> >
> > >
> > > M'bolo dupont.
> > >
> > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably, abdicate)
> > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French (5,000 troops
> in
> > > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting the
> Presidential
> > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in power. The
> 500
> > >
> > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
> > >
> > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and Britain world
> > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar Bongo is
> doing
> > >
> > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US and world.
> > >
> > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West and is being
> left
> > >
> > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain economic and
> > > political control. I could expound on this for many, many pages
> on
> > > here but will desist for now.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > ---------------------~-->
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> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >-~->
> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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> > >
> > >
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> >
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>
Rentier states like Gabon are especially vulnerable to greedy
individuals and corporations who have little regard to other than
their self interest. Once the oil, timber and minerals are gone,
what is left for the other 99.9% of the Gabonese? The road system is
horrendous, the medical situation equally bad and the educational
institutions are in shambles. NGO's aren't the answer, either.
Asking and receiving handouts from outsiders doesn't encourage self-
development.
First things first. We Westerners do not have the answers. The
questions and answers must emerge from the Gabonese.
With all due respect,
You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the people's level? Have you
seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only his"friends"? Have you
seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of the obvious
hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the national train
service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to Franceville for his
annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation to the capital
annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to distribute condoms
while trucks get to every corner distributing soft drinks has a problem and
it starts with the government.
Also, when a majority of the population does not support the president and
had little or no voice to change this, is this a great democracy? Another
principle of the United State's founding fathers was freedom of choice. Have
you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
How can individuals work toward supporting their governments and country if
the government is taking food out of their mouths and spending it on lavish
trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics where women struggle
to keep their children healthy or talked to primary school students who have
no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic approach to the
reality of one party governments in Africa would be a better approach.
Carol
>From: dupont3@...
>Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
>To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
>Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
>
>Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating on Bongo's bank
>account will get you nowhere.
>Ever thought about working with the President to solve some of the
>nations problems?
>Here in America we have many of the same problems and this is the
>wealthiest country in the world!
>We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying schools in inner cities
>and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing together. We are
>spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time when our schools
>need books.
>I would also like to ask how is it that having President Bongo step down
>be good for Gabon or change the current situation for the better?
>I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is dependent on the
>French for many things. If the French were to leave would it make
>anything better? I think not, it would not make anything better and
>getting rid of President Bongo would probably destabilize the country and
>the region has the resulting power grab would be like going back in time.
>I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to think more about
>fighting for power than the issues important for developing their
>country.
>It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a solution. In Gabon
>each citizen must first make an effort to support the state. Only then
>will you find the necessary energy to tackle major issues.The founding
>fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand Divided We Fall"
>Every nation that aspires to economic success must first find a common
>ground to stand on.
>The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and sure, there are many
>who disagree with the President. But there are also many who do not
>understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo. Many who do not
>understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not only Africans,
>but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop their economies in
>this new world order.
>Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can help the President
>lead Gabon into the 21st century.
>I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's inauguration speech
>when he said, "ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can
>do for your country."
>Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood correctly, can
>inspire man to great heights.
>
>ciao,
>dupont
>
>
>
>
>
>On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
>writes:
> > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a "Bongo house"
> > while my
> > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to school and
> > riding on
> > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to end up in
> > the water
> > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just that -
> > words. Don't
> > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government in order to
> > have
> > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at Bongo's bank
> > accounts and
> > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV. If Bongo is
> > such a
> > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his promise to
> > step down
> > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever? Ask many
> > Gabonese and
> > they would vhemently disagree with you.
> >
> >
> > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@...>
> > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
> > >
> > >Hello:
> > >I think that stability in any country in Africa depends more on
> > just
> > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all leaders of
> > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does that "keep"
> > them
> > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say about the
> > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think that it is
> > >important to focus now on economic development and aid for African
> > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the marketing of
> > >resources coming out of most African states are not controlled by
> > the
> > >states themselves but by external entities.
> > >For example, it is important to develop the infrastructure where
> > oil
> > >producing states are actually refining the oil that is produced.
> > Or
> > >where companies marketing the by-products of resources like
> > timber,
> > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by Africans native to
> > >the region where they are produced. These things are more
> > important
> > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in political
> > control
> > >or what politician has the most money stashed away. I think
> > arguably
> > >that an intelligent and capable African head of state deserves to
> > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill Gates for that
> > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the stock
> > market
> > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource rich African
> > >country!
> > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country than Bush or
> > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps and bounds
> > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why I think
> > that
> > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at this time.
> > >We have seen in America how term limits together with the
> > influence
> > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the quality of
> > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are seeing that
> > it
> > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it comes to
> > >political leadership.
> > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of African states if
> > it
> > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to gain
> > economic
> > >or political control?
> > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda reaches the
> > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly care about the
> > >development of the African continent. Maybe after the debaucle in
> > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in the states
> > >will put more effort into understanding what economic development
> > in
> > >Africa means to world stability.
> > >
> > >
> > >Ciao,
> > >dupont
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne" <bobutne@...>
> > writes:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > M'bolo dupont.
> > > >
> > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably, abdicate)
> > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French (5,000 troops
> > in
> > > > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting the
> > Presidential
> > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in power. The
> > 500
> > > >
> > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
> > > >
> > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and Britain world
> > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar Bongo is
> > doing
> > > >
> > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US and world.
> > > >
> > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West and is being
> > left
> > > >
> > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain economic and
> > > > political control. I could expound on this for many, many pages
> > on
> > > > here but will desist for now.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > ---------------------~-->
> > > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon or
> > > > Lexmark
> > > > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US
> > &
> > > > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
> > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/JWorlB/TM
> > > >
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >-~->
> > > >
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
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> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
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> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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> >
> >
> >
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> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Well us westerners had the answers in Germany and Japan afer the war when
we helped to rebuilt those economies.
We certainly have the answer for keeping the Israel economy propped up
despite all of the violence there.
By all means I think that we certainly have an answer for the bulk of any
development questions for Gabon and other potentually economic
significant states in Africa..
First of all lets get rid of the debt that many of these countries have
to pay. Then how about a "Marshall Plan" for Africa?
Where we invest in an educated workforce, building industries and
creating trading partners in much the same way that we deal with Europe
and Asia.
This is the way that we advanced our National Security in the past and it
seems to be equally relevant in this era of terrorist activity today.
Now can we focus on how this would actually work?
Ciao,
dupont
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:28:07 -0000 "bobutne" <bobutne@...> writes:
> First things first. We Westerners do not have the answers. The
> questions and answers must emerge from the Gabonese.
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have been to poorly
supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you consider to be the
obvious hypocrisy.
But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many poor people is no
different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor people here in the
US do not have health insurance. While rich people spend money lavishly
in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless people abound on
the streets and our political system although 2 party, disenfranchises
many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been there done that" when
you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking about a nations
development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist system like in
Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it takes to jump start
any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing wrong with a healthy
dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that idealistic values are the
foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is getting people to
believe in the face of the harsh realities of capitalism.
Now to say that a majority of people do not support President Bongo is
not true. He has won elections fair and square, for all that's worth
and beyond that is the most capable person for the job. The man is a
national treasure! Why would you want him out?
If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo then you are not
being realistic about facing the challenges of such underdeveloped
nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the hard issues and
instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good soap opera.
I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to world poverty. Step
back and look at this picture and you will see that the difference points
to the policies of the so-called first world nations and not that of a
few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are still poor in
comparison.
Ciao,
dupont
On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
writes:
> With all due respect,
> You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the people's level?
> Have you
> seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only his"friends"?
> Have you
> seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of the obvious
> hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the national
> train
> service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to Franceville
> for his
> annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation to the
> capital
> annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to distribute
> condoms
> while trucks get to every corner distributing soft drinks has a
> problem and
> it starts with the government.
>
> Also, when a majority of the population does not support the
> president and
> had little or no voice to change this, is this a great democracy?
> Another
> principle of the United State's founding fathers was freedom of
> choice. Have
> you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
>
> How can individuals work toward supporting their governments and
> country if
> the government is taking food out of their mouths and spending it on
> lavish
> trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics where women
> struggle
> to keep their children healthy or talked to primary school students
> who have
> no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic approach to
> the
> reality of one party governments in Africa would be a better
> approach.
>
> Carol
>
>
>
> >From: dupont3@...
> >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
> >
> >Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating on Bongo's
> bank
> >account will get you nowhere.
> >Ever thought about working with the President to solve some of the
> >nations problems?
> >Here in America we have many of the same problems and this is the
> >wealthiest country in the world!
> >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying schools in inner
> cities
> >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing together. We are
> >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time when our
> schools
> >need books.
> >I would also like to ask how is it that having President Bongo step
> down
> >be good for Gabon or change the current situation for the better?
> >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is dependent on
> the
> >French for many things. If the French were to leave would it make
> >anything better? I think not, it would not make anything better
> and
> >getting rid of President Bongo would probably destabilize the
> country and
> >the region has the resulting power grab would be like going back in
> time.
> >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to think more
> about
> >fighting for power than the issues important for developing their
> >country.
> >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a solution. In
> Gabon
> >each citizen must first make an effort to support the state. Only
> then
> >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major issues.The
> founding
> >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand Divided We
> Fall"
> >Every nation that aspires to economic success must first find a
> common
> >ground to stand on.
> >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and sure, there are
> many
> >who disagree with the President. But there are also many who do
> not
> >understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo. Many who do
> not
> >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not only
> Africans,
> >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop their
> economies in
> >this new world order.
> >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can help the
> President
> >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
> >I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's inauguration
> speech
> >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for you, but what
> you can
> >do for your country."
> >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood correctly, can
> >inspire man to great heights.
> >
> >ciao,
> >dupont
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
> >writes:
> > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a "Bongo
> house"
> > > while my
> > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to school
> and
> > > riding on
> > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to end up
> in
> > > the water
> > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just that -
> > > words. Don't
> > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government in
> order to
> > > have
> > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at Bongo's bank
> > > accounts and
> > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV. If Bongo
> is
> > > such a
> > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his promise
> to
> > > step down
> > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever? Ask many
> > > Gabonese and
> > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@...>
> > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
> > > >
> > > >Hello:
> > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa depends more
> on
> > > just
> > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all leaders
> of
> > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does that
> "keep"
> > > them
> > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say about
> the
> > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think that it is
> > > >important to focus now on economic development and aid for
> African
> > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the marketing
> of
> > > >resources coming out of most African states are not controlled
> by
> > > the
> > > >states themselves but by external entities.
> > > >For example, it is important to develop the infrastructure
> where
> > > oil
> > > >producing states are actually refining the oil that is
> produced.
> > > Or
> > > >where companies marketing the by-products of resources like
> > > timber,
> > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by Africans native
> to
> > > >the region where they are produced. These things are more
> > > important
> > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in political
> > > control
> > > >or what politician has the most money stashed away. I think
> > > arguably
> > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of state deserves
> to
> > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill Gates for
> that
> > > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the stock
> > > market
> > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource rich
> African
> > > >country!
> > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country than Bush
> or
> > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps and
> bounds
> > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why I
> think
> > > that
> > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at this
> time.
> > > >We have seen in America how term limits together with the
> > > influence
> > > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the quality
> of
> > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are seeing
> that
> > > it
> > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it comes
> to
> > > >political leadership.
> > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of African states
> if
> > > it
> > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to gain
> > > economic
> > > >or political control?
> > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda reaches
> the
> > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly care about the
> > > >development of the African continent. Maybe after the debaucle
> in
> > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in the
> states
> > > >will put more effort into understanding what economic
> development
> > > in
> > > >Africa means to world stability.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Ciao,
> > > >dupont
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne" <bobutne@...>
> > > writes:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > M'bolo dupont.
> > > > >
> > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably, abdicate)
> > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French (5,000
> troops
> > > in
> > > > > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting the
> > > Presidential
> > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in power.
> The
> > > 500
> > > > >
> > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and Britain
> world
> > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar Bongo
> is
> > > doing
> > > > >
> > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US and
> world.
> > > > >
> > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West and is
> being
> > > left
> > > > >
> > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain economic
> and
> > > > > political control. I could expound on this for many, many
> pages
> > > on
> > > > > here but will desist for now.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > > > ---------------------~-->
> > > > > Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for Your HP, Epson, Canon
> or
> > > > > Lexmark
> > > > > Printer at Myinks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the
> US
> > > &
> > > > > Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511
> > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/l.m7sD/LIdGAA/qnsNAA/JWorlB/TM
> > > > >
> > >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >-~->
> > > > >
> > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > gabondiscussion-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
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Hello,
I respectfully want to point out that it is not a useful comparison
to place the poor of America next to the poor of Gabon. YOu know
that the stardard is not the same. We do have homeless, hungry
people in the US, but even they live in better conditions that the
Gabonese and seem almost rich in comparison. The collective
infrastructure here is developed and conditions are more sanitairy
and there are services available to help the poor.
This is very much lacking in Gabon. Not only that, but here in the
US the poor who live in truly horrible conditions are a minority, in
Gabon it is the majority of the population.
The Gabonese government actually has a policy to ensure that the
people do not receive a good education with the theory that educated
people would know how to do something about their situation and
therefore be a threat to the government (by its probable removal).
Moreover, there is not any opportunity to improve one's condition in
Gabon without conections as nephatism is rampant and education means
nothing in procuring jobs or status. What eles could you expect from
a government with a president that has his ministers sign an undated
resignation letter to procure their place in the government?
Something that Bongo has continued from his predecessor Leon Mba (See
Darlington's "African Betrayal").
Tracy
Hi Carol! ;)
- In gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com, dupont3@j... wrote:
> Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have been to
poorly
> supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you consider to be
the
> obvious hypocrisy.
> But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many poor people
is no
> different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor people here
in the
> US do not have health insurance. While rich people spend money
lavishly
> in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless people abound
on
> the streets and our political system although 2 party,
disenfranchises
> many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been there done
that" when
> you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking about a nations
> development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist system like
in
> Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
> I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it takes to jump
start
> any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing wrong with a
healthy
> dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that idealistic values are
the
> foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is getting people
to
> believe in the face of the harsh realities of capitalism.
> Now to say that a majority of people do not support President Bongo
is
> not true. He has won elections fair and square, for all that's
worth
> and beyond that is the most capable person for the job. The man is a
> national treasure! Why would you want him out?
> If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo then you are
not
> being realistic about facing the challenges of such underdeveloped
> nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the hard issues
and
> instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good soap opera.
> I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to world poverty.
Step
> back and look at this picture and you will see that the difference
points
> to the policies of the so-called first world nations and not that
of a
> few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are still poor
in
> comparison.
>
> Ciao,
> dupont
>
>
> On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@h...>
> writes:
> > With all due respect,
> > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the people's level?
> > Have you
> > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only
his"friends"?
> > Have you
> > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of the
obvious
> > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the national
> > train
> > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to
Franceville
> > for his
> > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation to the
> > capital
> > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to
distribute
> > condoms
> > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft drinks has a
> > problem and
> > it starts with the government.
> >
> > Also, when a majority of the population does not support the
> > president and
> > had little or no voice to change this, is this a great democracy?
> > Another
> > principle of the United State's founding fathers was freedom of
> > choice. Have
> > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
> >
> > How can individuals work toward supporting their governments and
> > country if
> > the government is taking food out of their mouths and spending it
on
> > lavish
> > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics where women
> > struggle
> > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary school
students
> > who have
> > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic approach
to
> > the
> > reality of one party governments in Africa would be a better
> > approach.
> >
> > Carol
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: dupont3@j...
> > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
> > >
> > >Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating on
Bongo's
> > bank
> > >account will get you nowhere.
> > >Ever thought about working with the President to solve some of
the
> > >nations problems?
> > >Here in America we have many of the same problems and this is the
> > >wealthiest country in the world!
> > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying schools in
inner
> > cities
> > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing together. We are
> > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time when our
> > schools
> > >need books.
> > >I would also like to ask how is it that having President Bongo
step
> > down
> > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation for the better?
> > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is dependent
on
> > the
> > >French for many things. If the French were to leave would it make
> > >anything better? I think not, it would not make anything better
> > and
> > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably destabilize the
> > country and
> > >the region has the resulting power grab would be like going back
in
> > time.
> > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to think more
> > about
> > >fighting for power than the issues important for developing their
> > >country.
> > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a solution. In
> > Gabon
> > >each citizen must first make an effort to support the state.
Only
> > then
> > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major issues.The
> > founding
> > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand Divided We
> > Fall"
> > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must first find a
> > common
> > >ground to stand on.
> > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and sure, there
are
> > many
> > >who disagree with the President. But there are also many who do
> > not
> > >understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo. Many who
do
> > not
> > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not only
> > Africans,
> > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop their
> > economies in
> > >this new world order.
> > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can help the
> > President
> > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
> > >I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's
inauguration
> > speech
> > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for you, but
what
> > you can
> > >do for your country."
> > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood correctly,
can
> > >inspire man to great heights.
> > >
> > >ciao,
> > >dupont
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@h...>
> > >writes:
> > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a "Bongo
> > house"
> > > > while my
> > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to
school
> > and
> > > > riding on
> > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to end
up
> > in
> > > > the water
> > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just
that -
> > > > words. Don't
> > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government in
> > order to
> > > > have
> > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at Bongo's
bank
> > > > accounts and
> > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV. If
Bongo
> > is
> > > > such a
> > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his promise
> > to
> > > > step down
> > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever? Ask
many
> > > > Gabonese and
> > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@j...>
> > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >Hello:
> > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa depends more
> > on
> > > > just
> > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all
leaders
> > of
> > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does that
> > "keep"
> > > > them
> > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say
about
> > the
> > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think that it
is
> > > > >important to focus now on economic development and aid for
> > African
> > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the
marketing
> > of
> > > > >resources coming out of most African states are not
controlled
> > by
> > > > the
> > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
> > > > >For example, it is important to develop the infrastructure
> > where
> > > > oil
> > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil that is
> > produced.
> > > > Or
> > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of resources like
> > > > timber,
> > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by Africans
native
> > to
> > > > >the region where they are produced. These things are more
> > > > important
> > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in political
> > > > control
> > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed away. I think
> > > > arguably
> > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of state
deserves
> > to
> > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill Gates for
> > that
> > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the stock
> > > > market
> > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource rich
> > African
> > > > >country!
> > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country than
Bush
> > or
> > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps and
> > bounds
> > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why I
> > think
> > > > that
> > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at this
> > time.
> > > > >We have seen in America how term limits together with the
> > > > influence
> > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the
quality
> > of
> > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are
seeing
> > that
> > > > it
> > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it
comes
> > to
> > > > >political leadership.
> > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of African
states
> > if
> > > > it
> > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to gain
> > > > economic
> > > > >or political control?
> > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda
reaches
> > the
> > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly care about
the
> > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe after the
debaucle
> > in
> > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in the
> > states
> > > > >will put more effort into understanding what economic
> > development
> > > > in
> > > > >Africa means to world stability.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Ciao,
> > > > >dupont
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne" <bobutne@a...>
> > > > writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably, abdicate)
> > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French (5,000
> > troops
> > > > in
> > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting the
> > > > Presidential
> > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in
power.
> > The
> > > > 500
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and Britain
> > world
> > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar
Bongo
> > is
> > > > doing
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US and
> > world.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West and is
> > being
> > > > left
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain
economic
> > and
> > > > > > political control. I could expound on this for many, many
> > pages
> > > > on
> > > > > > here but will desist for now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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Except in cases where the World Bank and International Monetary Fund(IMF)
are involved. Which I am afraid is probably 95% of the 3rd world nations
where political and economic power is so-called, "tightly gripped."
Even a country like China (which is governed by a Communist regime that
has a tight grip on economic and political power) is susceptible to
influence by foreign governments in their development by way of the World
Trade Organization(WTO). China was recently forced to make changes in its
economic policy in order to gain "Most Favored Nations" status in the
WTO.
I think that it does not matter whether you have a dictator in power or a
long term democratically elected leader. A shift of the winds in the
political and economic climate of the major powers or (G8) countries will
ultimately influence what goes on in those countries. Not to mention the
recent trend of preemptive military confrontation established by Bush
that now threatens the sovereignty of many nations.
Ciao,
dupont
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 01:17:06 -0000 "bobutne" <bobutne@...> writes:
> When political and economic power is tightly gripped in only a few
> hands, attempts by foreign governemnets and NGO's to influence a
> nation's development are futile.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
>
>
>
Well my comparison was meant to show how we both have much of the same
problems. Even though one nation is trillions of dollars richer than the
other! Of course you have to consider that many of the Gabonese people
are tribal natives and that most of the country is rain forest with some
regions even unexplored. Compared that to our problems in the over
developed US. I would wager that a homeless person living on the street
in America is not rich compared to a homeless Gabonese. That is a
ridiculous assumption considering the stress and indignity of such a
life in America. What is the suicide rate in the US compared to Gabon?
For example. in Japan people are killing themselves daily because of the
stress.
Do you really believe that the Gabonese government has a policy to keep
people uneducated? Why even go there without considering the possibility
that the Bush administration had something to do with 9/11?
I am trying to show you that whatever you think is bad about the
Gabonese leadership is multiplied exponentially when you look in the
mirror and focus on your own government here in the US. That does not
make it ok, but if the reality is such, then shouldn't we focus on what
truly makes a difference?
Ciao,
dupont
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 14:52:45 -0000 "tracywerblow"
<tracywerblow@...> writes:
> Hello,
>
> I respectfully want to point out that it is not a useful comparison
>
> to place the poor of America next to the poor of Gabon. YOu know
> that the stardard is not the same. We do have homeless, hungry
> people in the US, but even they live in better conditions that the
> Gabonese and seem almost rich in comparison. The collective
> infrastructure here is developed and conditions are more sanitairy
> and there are services available to help the poor.
> This is very much lacking in Gabon. Not only that, but here in the
>
> US the poor who live in truly horrible conditions are a minority, in
>
> Gabon it is the majority of the population.
> The Gabonese government actually has a policy to ensure that the
> people do not receive a good education with the theory that educated
>
> people would know how to do something about their situation and
> therefore be a threat to the government (by its probable removal).
>
> Moreover, there is not any opportunity to improve one's condition in
>
> Gabon without conections as nephatism is rampant and education means
>
> nothing in procuring jobs or status. What eles could you expect
> from
> a government with a president that has his ministers sign an undated
>
> resignation letter to procure their place in the government?
> Something that Bongo has continued from his predecessor Leon Mba
> (See
> Darlington's "African Betrayal").
>
> Tracy
>
> Hi Carol! ;)
>
>
>
>
> - In gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com, dupont3@j... wrote:
> > Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have been to
>
> poorly
> > supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you consider to
> be
> the
> > obvious hypocrisy.
> > But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many poor people
>
> is no
> > different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor people here
>
> in the
> > US do not have health insurance. While rich people spend money
> lavishly
> > in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless people
> abound
> on
> > the streets and our political system although 2 party,
> disenfranchises
> > many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been there done
> that" when
> > you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking about a
> nations
> > development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist system like
>
> in
> > Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
> > I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it takes to jump
> start
> > any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing wrong with a
> healthy
> > dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that idealistic values
> are
> the
> > foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is getting
> people
> to
> > believe in the face of the harsh realities of capitalism.
> > Now to say that a majority of people do not support President
> Bongo
> is
> > not true. He has won elections fair and square, for all that's
>
> worth
> > and beyond that is the most capable person for the job. The man is
> a
> > national treasure! Why would you want him out?
> > If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo then you are
>
> not
> > being realistic about facing the challenges of such
> underdeveloped
> > nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the hard issues
>
> and
> > instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good soap opera.
> > I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to world poverty.
>
> Step
> > back and look at this picture and you will see that the difference
>
> points
> > to the policies of the so-called first world nations and not that
>
> of a
> > few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are still poor
>
> in
> > comparison.
> >
> > Ciao,
> > dupont
> >
> >
> > On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@h...>
> > writes:
> > > With all due respect,
> > > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the people's level?
>
> > > Have you
> > > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only
> his"friends"?
> > > Have you
> > > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of the
> obvious
> > > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the national
>
> > > train
> > > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to
> Franceville
> > > for his
> > > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation to the
> > > capital
> > > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to
> distribute
> > > condoms
> > > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft drinks has a
>
> > > problem and
> > > it starts with the government.
> > >
> > > Also, when a majority of the population does not support the
> > > president and
> > > had little or no voice to change this, is this a great
> democracy?
> > > Another
> > > principle of the United State's founding fathers was freedom of
>
> > > choice. Have
> > > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
> > >
> > > How can individuals work toward supporting their governments and
>
> > > country if
> > > the government is taking food out of their mouths and spending
> it
> on
> > > lavish
> > > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics where
> women
> > > struggle
> > > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary school
> students
> > > who have
> > > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic
> approach
> to
> > > the
> > > reality of one party governments in Africa would be a better
> > > approach.
> > >
> > > Carol
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: dupont3@j...
> > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
> > > >
> > > >Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating on
> Bongo's
> > > bank
> > > >account will get you nowhere.
> > > >Ever thought about working with the President to solve some of
>
> the
> > > >nations problems?
> > > >Here in America we have many of the same problems and this is
> the
> > > >wealthiest country in the world!
> > > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying schools in
> inner
> > > cities
> > > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing together. We
> are
> > > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time when our
> > > schools
> > > >need books.
> > > >I would also like to ask how is it that having President Bongo
>
> step
> > > down
> > > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation for the
> better?
> > > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is dependent
>
> on
> > > the
> > > >French for many things. If the French were to leave would it
> make
> > > >anything better? I think not, it would not make anything better
>
> > > and
> > > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably destabilize the
> > > country and
> > > >the region has the resulting power grab would be like going
> back
> in
> > > time.
> > > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to think
> more
> > > about
> > > >fighting for power than the issues important for developing
> their
> > > >country.
> > > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a solution.
> In
> > > Gabon
> > > >each citizen must first make an effort to support the state.
> Only
> > > then
> > > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major issues.The
> > > founding
> > > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand Divided We
>
> > > Fall"
> > > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must first find a
>
> > > common
> > > >ground to stand on.
> > > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and sure, there
>
> are
> > > many
> > > >who disagree with the President. But there are also many who do
>
> > > not
> > > >understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo. Many
> who
> do
> > > not
> > > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not only
> > > Africans,
> > > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop their
> > > economies in
> > > >this new world order.
> > > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can help the
> > > President
> > > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
> > > >I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's
> inauguration
> > > speech
> > > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for you, but
> what
> > > you can
> > > >do for your country."
> > > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood correctly,
>
> can
> > > >inspire man to great heights.
> > > >
> > > >ciao,
> > > >dupont
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@h...>
> > > >writes:
> > > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a "Bongo
>
> > > house"
> > > > > while my
> > > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to
> school
> > > and
> > > > > riding on
> > > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to end
>
> up
> > > in
> > > > > the water
> > > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just
> that -
> > > > > words. Don't
> > > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government in
>
> > > order to
> > > > > have
> > > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at Bongo's
> bank
> > > > > accounts and
> > > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV. If
> Bongo
> > > is
> > > > > such a
> > > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his
> promise
> > > to
> > > > > step down
> > > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever? Ask
> many
> > > > > Gabonese and
> > > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@j...>
> > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Hello:
> > > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa depends
> more
> > > on
> > > > > just
> > > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all
> leaders
> > > of
> > > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does that
> > > "keep"
> > > > > them
> > > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say
> about
> > > the
> > > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think that it
>
> is
> > > > > >important to focus now on economic development and aid for
>
> > > African
> > > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the
> marketing
> > > of
> > > > > >resources coming out of most African states are not
> controlled
> > > by
> > > > > the
> > > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
> > > > > >For example, it is important to develop the infrastructure
>
> > > where
> > > > > oil
> > > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil that is
> > > produced.
> > > > > Or
> > > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of resources
> like
> > > > > timber,
> > > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by Africans
> native
> > > to
> > > > > >the region where they are produced. These things are more
> > > > > important
> > > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in
> political
> > > > > control
> > > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed away. I
> think
> > > > > arguably
> > > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of state
> deserves
> > > to
> > > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill Gates
> for
> > > that
> > > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the
> stock
> > > > > market
> > > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource rich
> > > African
> > > > > >country!
> > > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country than
>
> Bush
> > > or
> > > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps and
> > > bounds
> > > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why I
> > > think
> > > > > that
> > > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at this
>
> > > time.
> > > > > >We have seen in America how term limits together with the
> > > > > influence
> > > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the
> quality
> > > of
> > > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are
> seeing
> > > that
> > > > > it
> > > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it
> comes
> > > to
> > > > > >political leadership.
> > > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of African
> states
> > > if
> > > > > it
> > > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to
> gain
> > > > > economic
> > > > > >or political control?
> > > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda
> reaches
> > > the
> > > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly care about
>
> the
> > > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe after the
> debaucle
> > > in
> > > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in the
>
> > > states
> > > > > >will put more effort into understanding what economic
> > > development
> > > > > in
> > > > > >Africa means to world stability.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Ciao,
> > > > > >dupont
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne"
> <bobutne@a...>
> > > > > writes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably,
> abdicate)
> > > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French (5,000
> > > troops
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting the
> > > > > Presidential
> > > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in
> power.
> > > The
> > > > > 500
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and Britain
>
> > > world
> > > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar
> Bongo
> > > is
> > > > > doing
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US and
>
> > > world.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West and is
>
> > > being
> > > > > left
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain
> economic
> > > and
> > > > > > > political control. I could expound on this for many,
> many
> > > pages
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > here but will desist for now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> > > > > >-~->
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
Obvious point - Bongo has had almost 40 yrs to make a difference and the
Gabonese are worse off now than at independence - bad track record. If you
think elections were fair and square then you do not agree with independent
election observers form around the world. In the end, it is not what I want
for Gabon - but what the GABONESE want for themselves - my husband included
who is from Gabon.
>From: dupont3@...
>Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
>To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
>Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:59:19 -0700
>
>Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have been to poorly
>supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you consider to be the
>obvious hypocrisy.
>But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many poor people is no
>different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor people here in the
>US do not have health insurance. While rich people spend money lavishly
>in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless people abound on
>the streets and our political system although 2 party, disenfranchises
>many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been there done that" when
>you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking about a nations
>development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist system like in
>Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
>I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it takes to jump start
>any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing wrong with a healthy
>dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that idealistic values are the
>foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is getting people to
>believe in the face of the harsh realities of capitalism.
>Now to say that a majority of people do not support President Bongo is
>not true. He has won elections fair and square, for all that's worth
>and beyond that is the most capable person for the job. The man is a
>national treasure! Why would you want him out?
>If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo then you are not
>being realistic about facing the challenges of such underdeveloped
>nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the hard issues and
>instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good soap opera.
>I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to world poverty. Step
>back and look at this picture and you will see that the difference points
>to the policies of the so-called first world nations and not that of a
>few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are still poor in
>comparison.
>
>Ciao,
>dupont
>
>
>On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
>writes:
> > With all due respect,
> > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the people's level?
> > Have you
> > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only his"friends"?
> > Have you
> > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of the obvious
> > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the national
> > train
> > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to Franceville
> > for his
> > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation to the
> > capital
> > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to distribute
> > condoms
> > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft drinks has a
> > problem and
> > it starts with the government.
> >
> > Also, when a majority of the population does not support the
> > president and
> > had little or no voice to change this, is this a great democracy?
> > Another
> > principle of the United State's founding fathers was freedom of
> > choice. Have
> > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
> >
> > How can individuals work toward supporting their governments and
> > country if
> > the government is taking food out of their mouths and spending it on
> > lavish
> > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics where women
> > struggle
> > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary school students
> > who have
> > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic approach to
> > the
> > reality of one party governments in Africa would be a better
> > approach.
> >
> > Carol
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: dupont3@...
> > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
> > >
> > >Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating on Bongo's
> > bank
> > >account will get you nowhere.
> > >Ever thought about working with the President to solve some of the
> > >nations problems?
> > >Here in America we have many of the same problems and this is the
> > >wealthiest country in the world!
> > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying schools in inner
> > cities
> > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing together. We are
> > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time when our
> > schools
> > >need books.
> > >I would also like to ask how is it that having President Bongo step
> > down
> > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation for the better?
> > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is dependent on
> > the
> > >French for many things. If the French were to leave would it make
> > >anything better? I think not, it would not make anything better
> > and
> > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably destabilize the
> > country and
> > >the region has the resulting power grab would be like going back in
> > time.
> > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to think more
> > about
> > >fighting for power than the issues important for developing their
> > >country.
> > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a solution. In
> > Gabon
> > >each citizen must first make an effort to support the state. Only
> > then
> > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major issues.The
> > founding
> > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand Divided We
> > Fall"
> > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must first find a
> > common
> > >ground to stand on.
> > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and sure, there are
> > many
> > >who disagree with the President. But there are also many who do
> > not
> > >understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo. Many who do
> > not
> > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not only
> > Africans,
> > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop their
> > economies in
> > >this new world order.
> > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can help the
> > President
> > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
> > >I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's inauguration
> > speech
> > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for you, but what
> > you can
> > >do for your country."
> > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood correctly, can
> > >inspire man to great heights.
> > >
> > >ciao,
> > >dupont
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
> > >writes:
> > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a "Bongo
> > house"
> > > > while my
> > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to school
> > and
> > > > riding on
> > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to end up
> > in
> > > > the water
> > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just that -
> > > > words. Don't
> > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government in
> > order to
> > > > have
> > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at Bongo's bank
> > > > accounts and
> > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV. If Bongo
> > is
> > > > such a
> > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his promise
> > to
> > > > step down
> > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever? Ask many
> > > > Gabonese and
> > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@...>
> > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
> > > > >
> > > > >Hello:
> > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa depends more
> > on
> > > > just
> > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all leaders
> > of
> > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does that
> > "keep"
> > > > them
> > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say about
> > the
> > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think that it is
> > > > >important to focus now on economic development and aid for
> > African
> > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the marketing
> > of
> > > > >resources coming out of most African states are not controlled
> > by
> > > > the
> > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
> > > > >For example, it is important to develop the infrastructure
> > where
> > > > oil
> > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil that is
> > produced.
> > > > Or
> > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of resources like
> > > > timber,
> > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by Africans native
> > to
> > > > >the region where they are produced. These things are more
> > > > important
> > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in political
> > > > control
> > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed away. I think
> > > > arguably
> > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of state deserves
> > to
> > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill Gates for
> > that
> > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the stock
> > > > market
> > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource rich
> > African
> > > > >country!
> > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country than Bush
> > or
> > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps and
> > bounds
> > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why I
> > think
> > > > that
> > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at this
> > time.
> > > > >We have seen in America how term limits together with the
> > > > influence
> > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the quality
> > of
> > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are seeing
> > that
> > > > it
> > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it comes
> > to
> > > > >political leadership.
> > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of African states
> > if
> > > > it
> > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to gain
> > > > economic
> > > > >or political control?
> > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda reaches
> > the
> > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly care about the
> > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe after the debaucle
> > in
> > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in the
> > states
> > > > >will put more effort into understanding what economic
> > development
> > > > in
> > > > >Africa means to world stability.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >Ciao,
> > > > >dupont
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne" <bobutne@...>
> > > > writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably, abdicate)
> > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French (5,000
> > troops
> > > > in
> > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting the
> > > > Presidential
> > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in power.
> > The
> > > > 500
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and Britain
> > world
> > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar Bongo
> > is
> > > > doing
> > > > > >
> > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US and
> > world.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West and is
> > being
> > > > left
> > > > > >
> > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain economic
> > and
> > > > > > political control. I could expound on this for many, many
> > pages
> > > > on
> > > > > > here but will desist for now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
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Whoever would say that the Gabonese are worse off now than independence
must be brainwashed or does not know a damm thing about how it was like
to reorganize institutions after a being under a colonial power. Also,
what a disrespect to all the people who worked hard for an independent
and for 40 yrs. stable Gabon.
To go on criticizing the government without coming up with any
convincing alternative ideas other than conspiracy theories and rumour is
with all due respect, disingenuous and insensitive poppycock.
Ciao,
dupont
On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:31:32 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
writes:
> Obvious point - Bongo has had almost 40 yrs to make a difference and
> the
> Gabonese are worse off now than at independence - bad track record.
> If you
> think elections were fair and square then you do not agree with
> independent
> election observers form around the world. In the end, it is not what
> I want
> for Gabon - but what the GABONESE want for themselves - my husband
> included
> who is from Gabon.
>
>
> >From: dupont3@...
> >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:59:19 -0700
> >
> >Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have been to
> poorly
> >supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you consider to be
> the
> >obvious hypocrisy.
> >But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many poor people
> is no
> >different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor people here
> in the
> >US do not have health insurance. While rich people spend money
> lavishly
> >in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless people abound
> on
> >the streets and our political system although 2 party,
> disenfranchises
> >many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been there done
> that" when
> >you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking about a
> nations
> >development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist system like
> in
> >Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
> >I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it takes to jump
> start
> >any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing wrong with a
> healthy
> >dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that idealistic values are
> the
> >foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is getting people
> to
> >believe in the face of the harsh realities of capitalism.
> >Now to say that a majority of people do not support President Bongo
> is
> >not true. He has won elections fair and square, for all that's
> worth
> >and beyond that is the most capable person for the job. The man is
> a
> >national treasure! Why would you want him out?
> >If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo then you are
> not
> >being realistic about facing the challenges of such underdeveloped
> >nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the hard issues
> and
> >instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good soap opera.
> >I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to world poverty.
> Step
> >back and look at this picture and you will see that the difference
> points
> >to the policies of the so-called first world nations and not that
> of a
> >few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are still poor
> in
> >comparison.
> >
> >Ciao,
> >dupont
> >
> >
> >On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
> >writes:
> > > With all due respect,
> > > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the people's
> level?
> > > Have you
> > > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only
> his"friends"?
> > > Have you
> > > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of the
> obvious
> > > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the national
> > > train
> > > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to
> Franceville
> > > for his
> > > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation to the
> > > capital
> > > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to
> distribute
> > > condoms
> > > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft drinks has a
> > > problem and
> > > it starts with the government.
> > >
> > > Also, when a majority of the population does not support the
> > > president and
> > > had little or no voice to change this, is this a great
> democracy?
> > > Another
> > > principle of the United State's founding fathers was freedom of
> > > choice. Have
> > > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
> > >
> > > How can individuals work toward supporting their governments
> and
> > > country if
> > > the government is taking food out of their mouths and spending
> it on
> > > lavish
> > > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics where
> women
> > > struggle
> > > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary school
> students
> > > who have
> > > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic
> approach to
> > > the
> > > reality of one party governments in Africa would be a better
> > > approach.
> > >
> > > Carol
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: dupont3@...
> > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
> > > >
> > > >Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating on
> Bongo's
> > > bank
> > > >account will get you nowhere.
> > > >Ever thought about working with the President to solve some of
> the
> > > >nations problems?
> > > >Here in America we have many of the same problems and this is
> the
> > > >wealthiest country in the world!
> > > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying schools in
> inner
> > > cities
> > > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing together. We
> are
> > > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time when our
> > > schools
> > > >need books.
> > > >I would also like to ask how is it that having President Bongo
> step
> > > down
> > > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation for the
> better?
> > > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is dependent
> on
> > > the
> > > >French for many things. If the French were to leave would it
> make
> > > >anything better? I think not, it would not make anything
> better
> > > and
> > > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably destabilize the
> > > country and
> > > >the region has the resulting power grab would be like going
> back in
> > > time.
> > > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to think
> more
> > > about
> > > >fighting for power than the issues important for developing
> their
> > > >country.
> > > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a solution.
> In
> > > Gabon
> > > >each citizen must first make an effort to support the state.
> Only
> > > then
> > > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major issues.The
> > > founding
> > > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand Divided We
> > > Fall"
> > > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must first find
> a
> > > common
> > > >ground to stand on.
> > > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and sure, there
> are
> > > many
> > > >who disagree with the President. But there are also many who
> do
> > > not
> > > >understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo. Many
> who do
> > > not
> > > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not only
> > > Africans,
> > > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop their
> > > economies in
> > > >this new world order.
> > > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can help the
> > > President
> > > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
> > > >I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's
> inauguration
> > > speech
> > > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for you, but
> what
> > > you can
> > > >do for your country."
> > > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood correctly,
> can
> > > >inspire man to great heights.
> > > >
> > > >ciao,
> > > >dupont
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi"
> <c_yombi@...>
> > > >writes:
> > > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a "Bongo
> > > house"
> > > > > while my
> > > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to
> school
> > > and
> > > > > riding on
> > > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to end
> up
> > > in
> > > > > the water
> > > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just
> that -
> > > > > words. Don't
> > > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government in
> > > order to
> > > > > have
> > > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at Bongo's
> bank
> > > > > accounts and
> > > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV. If
> Bongo
> > > is
> > > > > such a
> > > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his
> promise
> > > to
> > > > > step down
> > > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever? Ask
> many
> > > > > Gabonese and
> > > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@...>
> > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Hello:
> > > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa depends
> more
> > > on
> > > > > just
> > > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all
> leaders
> > > of
> > > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does that
> > > "keep"
> > > > > them
> > > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say
> about
> > > the
> > > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think that it
> is
> > > > > >important to focus now on economic development and aid for
> > > African
> > > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the
> marketing
> > > of
> > > > > >resources coming out of most African states are not
> controlled
> > > by
> > > > > the
> > > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
> > > > > >For example, it is important to develop the infrastructure
> > > where
> > > > > oil
> > > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil that is
> > > produced.
> > > > > Or
> > > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of resources
> like
> > > > > timber,
> > > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by Africans
> native
> > > to
> > > > > >the region where they are produced. These things are more
> > > > > important
> > > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in
> political
> > > > > control
> > > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed away. I
> think
> > > > > arguably
> > > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of state
> deserves
> > > to
> > > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill Gates
> for
> > > that
> > > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the
> stock
> > > > > market
> > > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource rich
> > > African
> > > > > >country!
> > > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country than
> Bush
> > > or
> > > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps and
> > > bounds
> > > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why I
> > > think
> > > > > that
> > > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at this
> > > time.
> > > > > >We have seen in America how term limits together with the
> > > > > influence
> > > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the
> quality
> > > of
> > > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are
> seeing
> > > that
> > > > > it
> > > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it
> comes
> > > to
> > > > > >political leadership.
> > > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of African
> states
> > > if
> > > > > it
> > > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to
> gain
> > > > > economic
> > > > > >or political control?
> > > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda
> reaches
> > > the
> > > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly care about
> the
> > > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe after the
> debaucle
> > > in
> > > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in the
> > > states
> > > > > >will put more effort into understanding what economic
> > > development
> > > > > in
> > > > > >Africa means to world stability.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Ciao,
> > > > > >dupont
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne"
> <bobutne@...>
> > > > > writes:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably,
> abdicate)
> > > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French (5,000
> > > troops
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting the
> > > > > Presidential
> > > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in
> power.
> > > The
> > > > > 500
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and Britain
> > > world
> > > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar
> Bongo
> > > is
> > > > > doing
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US and
> > > world.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West and
> is
> > > being
> > > > > left
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain
> economic
> > > and
> > > > > > > political control. I could expound on this for many,
> many
> > > pages
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > here but will desist for now.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
May be it's just you who is brainwashed... Or may be people like the UN are
just making it all up.....
Vol 43 Number 25 - 20 December 2002
Hear those drums
For want of opposition, President Bongo can plan to rule until 2012
After three decades at the head of one of Africa's worst managed and most
corrupt oil economies, President Omar Bongo might well expect some political
trouble. Quite the opposite. His ruling Parti Démocratique Gabonais (PDG)
will sweep the board in the local elections on 29 December and Bongo (health
permitting) could win yet another seven-year presidential term in the
election due in 2005. The oppositionists of the early 1990s have been
exiled, crushed or coopted.
Gabonese have lost interest in the perennially rigged elections. Turnout at
the legislative polls last December was under 20 per cent and may be lower
still in the local polls. Electoral registers have been doctored down to
523,000: there were 775,000 names on the lists for the 2001 elections. Many
nominal political opponents are in Bongo's pay, the rest are divided and
lack national support. For wealthy Gabonese, elections are a patronage
competition which shares out jobs and resources from 250,000 barrels of oil
a day, plus smaller timber and manganese exports.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vol 42 Number 16 - 10 August 2001
Hey big spender
The fuss over how President El Hadj Omar Bongo came to deposit over US$180
million in three private Citibank accounts in New York won't go away. First
raised in United States Senate hearings in November 1999, it is now the
subject of an embarrassing law suit against Bongo in the US Federal Court,
Washington. Bongo's lawyers are trying to establish diplomatic immunity for
him as a serving head of a state recognised by the US government. And with
another US legal suit from a scrap metal company pending, Bongo's
big-spending habits Stateside he bought four Boeing passenger jets in June
won't win him any respite from his legal adversaries there.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Vol 40 Number 22 - 05 November 1999
Digging deeper holes
A massive hole in Gabon's public finances - some say of more than US$350
million - is at the heart of its growing financial and political crisis. By
the end of last year, arrears to foreign creditors were estimated at 160
billion CFA francs ($256.4 mn.) - and have probably doubled this year.
President Omar Bongo's government also has arrears of CFA 100 bn. to local
banks. With an oil-fired GNP per head of $4,000, Gabon is one of Africa's
wealthiest states. Yet most people live in poverty and a damning new report
from the United Nations Development Programme says social services are
collapsing. Tracing the missing $350 mn. preoccupies both foreign creditors
and Gabonese who worry about government corruption and mismanagement. And
President Bongo is no longer able to rely on Paris nor Washington to block
exposure of murky areas in his government. He tried everything, including a
personal call to French President Jacques Chirac, to stifle the inquiry by
magistrate Eva Joly into Elf-Aquitaine's unorthodox financing operations.
This focussed on Bongo's relationship with André Tarallo, Elf-Gabon's
disgraced and ousted Président-Directeur Général. Late last month, Joly's
inquiries moved on when a Swiss magistrate, Paul Parraudin, produced bank
records showing that over 600 mn. French francs ($97 mn.) had been
channelled through Tarallo's Swiss account from the Gabonese presidency.
Back home, after a year of strikes, demonstrations and the payments crisis,
Bongo's government needs a new deal with the International Monetary Fund.
Last year, the Fund suspended its Extended Financing Facility for several
reasons, including 'lack of transparency in public finance' (Fundspeak for
corruption). Libreville's negotiating team is led by respected Finance
Minister Emile Doumba, who has been trying, with limited success, to
persuade his ministerial colleagues and the presidency to implement an
IMF-inspired austerity programme.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
----------------------------------------------------------------Freedom
in the World 1998-99: Gabon
Freedom House Survey 1999
Economy: Capitalist (highly corrupt)
Population: 1,200,000
PPP: $3,766
Life Expectancy: 54
Ethnic Groups: Fang, Eshira, Bapounou, Bateke, other Bantu, other Africans,
Europeans
Polity: Dominant party
Capital: Libreville
Political Rights: 5
Civil Liberties: 4
Status: Partly Free
Overview
In December, President Omar Bongo was returned to office for a seven-year
term. The polling, which was partially boycotted by the opposition, was
marked by serious irregularities. The nominally independent National
Election Commission, which was created under the new constitution approved
by referendum in 1995, proved neither autonomous nor competent. Behind a
facade of democratic institutions, Bongo used patronage, manipulation, and
intimidation to retain power. In Libreville in May, student riots prompted
by deteriorating economic conditions were quickly suppressed. At least ten
students were seriously hurt. Three decades of autocratic rule have made
Bongo among the world's richest men and left the vast majority of oil-rich
Gabon's 1.4 million people mired in poverty. Bongo is strongly backed by the
army and by France. The highly profitable French ELF oil company plays a
dominant role in the country's economic and political life.
Straddling the equator on central Africa's west coast, Gabon gained
independence from France in 1960. Bongo, whom France raised from soldier to
president in 1967, completed his predecessor's consolidation of power by
officially outlawing the opposition. France, which maintains 600 marines in
Gabon, has intervened twice to preserve Bongo's regime. In 1990, protests
prompted by economic duress forced Bongo to accept a conference that
opposition leaders hoped would promote a peaceful democratic transition.
Bongo retained power, however, in rigged 1993 elections that sparked violent
protests and repression led by his Presidential Guard. The 1994 Paris
Accords claimed to institute true democratic reforms. Municipal elections in
1996 saw major opposition gains, including the election of Paul Mba
Abbesole, the leader of the largest opposition party, as mayor of
Libreville. Legislative polls delayed by decree until December 1996 were
again beset by fraud as Bongo's Gabon Democratic Party won an overwhelming,
but unconvincing victory.
Political Rights and Civil Liberties
Despite a gradual political opening since 1990, Gabon's citizens have never
been able to exercise their constitutional right to change their government
democratically. Bongo's 1998 electoral victory with 61 percent of the vote
followed a campaign that made profligate use of state resources and state
media to promote his incumbency. Legislative elections have also been
seriously flawed.
State institutions are influenced or controlled by Bongo and a small elite
around him. The judiciary suffers from political interference. Rights to
legal counsel and public criminal trials are generally respected, but the
law presumes guilt. Judges may deliver summary verdicts, and torture remains
a standard route to produce confessions. Prison conditions are marked by
beatings and insufficient food, water, and medical care. The government
often detains refugees without charge, and there are reports of forced labor
by detainees. Rights of assembly and association are constitutionally
guaranteed, but permits required for public gatherings are sometimes
refused. Freedom to form and join political parties is generally respected,
but civil servants may face harassment based on their associations.
Nongovernmental organizations operate openly, although the Gabonese League
of Human Rights has reported threats and harassment.
A government daily and approximately one dozen private weeklies, which are
primarily controlled by opposition parties, are published. The government
overwhelmingly dominates the broadcast media, which reach a far larger
audience. Only a few private broadcasters have been licensed, and their
viability is tenuous. A 1998 crackdown on private media has raised serious
concerns for free expression. In February, Radio Soleil, which was
associated with the main Bucherons opposition party, was closed. In January,
a cartoonist was sentenced to six months imprisonment for lampooning Bongo.
Publication of his newspaper was suspended for one month. The president of
the journalists' union was jailed for eight months. In August, the
opposition newspaper La Griffe was closed, and three of its staff received
eight-month suspended sentences after publishing allegations of ivory
smuggling by the national airline. Soldiers raided La Griffe offices and
seized equipment. Foreign newspapers, magazines, and broadcasts are usually
widely available, but editions criticizing Bongo have been seized.
Most of the small formal sector work force is unionized, although unions
must register with the government in order to be officially recognized.
Despite legal protections, the government has taken action against numerous
strikers and unions and used force to suppress illegal demonstrations. While
no legal restrictions on travel exist, harassment on political and ethnic
bases has been reported. Religious freedom is constitutionally guaranteed
and respected. An official ban on Jehovah's Witnesses is not enforced.
Legal protections for women include equal access laws for education,
business, and investment. In addition to owning property and businesses,
women constitute more than 50 percent of the salaried workforce in the
health and trade sectors. At the same time, there are only six women in the
120-member National Assembly and one woman in the cabinet. Women continue to
face legal and cultural discrimination, particularly in rural areas, and are
reportedly subject to widespread domestic violence.
Little wealth from Gabon's oil revenues reaches the broad populace, most of
which is engaged in subsistence farming. Corruption is endemic.
>From: dupont3@...
>Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
>To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
>Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:18:18 -0700
>
>Whoever would say that the Gabonese are worse off now than independence
>must be brainwashed or does not know a damm thing about how it was like
>to reorganize institutions after a being under a colonial power. Also,
>what a disrespect to all the people who worked hard for an independent
>and for 40 yrs. stable Gabon.
>To go on criticizing the government without coming up with any
>convincing alternative ideas other than conspiracy theories and rumour is
>with all due respect, disingenuous and insensitive poppycock.
>
>Ciao,
>dupont
>
>
>
>
>On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:31:32 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
>writes:
> > Obvious point - Bongo has had almost 40 yrs to make a difference and
> > the
> > Gabonese are worse off now than at independence - bad track record.
> > If you
> > think elections were fair and square then you do not agree with
> > independent
> > election observers form around the world. In the end, it is not what
> > I want
> > for Gabon - but what the GABONESE want for themselves - my husband
> > included
> > who is from Gabon.
> >
> >
> > >From: dupont3@...
> > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:59:19 -0700
> > >
> > >Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have been to
> > poorly
> > >supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you consider to be
> > the
> > >obvious hypocrisy.
> > >But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many poor people
> > is no
> > >different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor people here
> > in the
> > >US do not have health insurance. While rich people spend money
> > lavishly
> > >in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless people abound
> > on
> > >the streets and our political system although 2 party,
> > disenfranchises
> > >many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been there done
> > that" when
> > >you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking about a
> > nations
> > >development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist system like
> > in
> > >Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
> > >I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it takes to jump
> > start
> > >any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing wrong with a
> > healthy
> > >dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that idealistic values are
> > the
> > >foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is getting people
> > to
> > >believe in the face of the harsh realities of capitalism.
> > >Now to say that a majority of people do not support President Bongo
> > is
> > >not true. He has won elections fair and square, for all that's
> > worth
> > >and beyond that is the most capable person for the job. The man is
> > a
> > >national treasure! Why would you want him out?
> > >If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo then you are
> > not
> > >being realistic about facing the challenges of such underdeveloped
> > >nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the hard issues
> > and
> > >instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good soap opera.
> > >I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to world poverty.
> > Step
> > >back and look at this picture and you will see that the difference
> > points
> > >to the policies of the so-called first world nations and not that
> > of a
> > >few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are still poor
> > in
> > >comparison.
> > >
> > >Ciao,
> > >dupont
> > >
> > >
> > >On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
> > >writes:
> > > > With all due respect,
> > > > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the people's
> > level?
> > > > Have you
> > > > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only
> > his"friends"?
> > > > Have you
> > > > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of the
> > obvious
> > > > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the national
> > > > train
> > > > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to
> > Franceville
> > > > for his
> > > > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation to the
> > > > capital
> > > > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to
> > distribute
> > > > condoms
> > > > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft drinks has a
> > > > problem and
> > > > it starts with the government.
> > > >
> > > > Also, when a majority of the population does not support the
> > > > president and
> > > > had little or no voice to change this, is this a great
> > democracy?
> > > > Another
> > > > principle of the United State's founding fathers was freedom of
> > > > choice. Have
> > > > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
> > > >
> > > > How can individuals work toward supporting their governments
> > and
> > > > country if
> > > > the government is taking food out of their mouths and spending
> > it on
> > > > lavish
> > > > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics where
> > women
> > > > struggle
> > > > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary school
> > students
> > > > who have
> > > > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic
> > approach to
> > > > the
> > > > reality of one party governments in Africa would be a better
> > > > approach.
> > > >
> > > > Carol
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: dupont3@...
> > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
> > > > >
> > > > >Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating on
> > Bongo's
> > > > bank
> > > > >account will get you nowhere.
> > > > >Ever thought about working with the President to solve some of
> > the
> > > > >nations problems?
> > > > >Here in America we have many of the same problems and this is
> > the
> > > > >wealthiest country in the world!
> > > > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying schools in
> > inner
> > > > cities
> > > > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing together. We
> > are
> > > > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time when our
> > > > schools
> > > > >need books.
> > > > >I would also like to ask how is it that having President Bongo
> > step
> > > > down
> > > > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation for the
> > better?
> > > > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is dependent
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > >French for many things. If the French were to leave would it
> > make
> > > > >anything better? I think not, it would not make anything
> > better
> > > > and
> > > > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably destabilize the
> > > > country and
> > > > >the region has the resulting power grab would be like going
> > back in
> > > > time.
> > > > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to think
> > more
> > > > about
> > > > >fighting for power than the issues important for developing
> > their
> > > > >country.
> > > > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a solution.
> > In
> > > > Gabon
> > > > >each citizen must first make an effort to support the state.
> > Only
> > > > then
> > > > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major issues.The
> > > > founding
> > > > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand Divided We
> > > > Fall"
> > > > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must first find
> > a
> > > > common
> > > > >ground to stand on.
> > > > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and sure, there
> > are
> > > > many
> > > > >who disagree with the President. But there are also many who
> > do
> > > > not
> > > > >understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo. Many
> > who do
> > > > not
> > > > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not only
> > > > Africans,
> > > > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop their
> > > > economies in
> > > > >this new world order.
> > > > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can help the
> > > > President
> > > > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
> > > > >I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's
> > inauguration
> > > > speech
> > > > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for you, but
> > what
> > > > you can
> > > > >do for your country."
> > > > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood correctly,
> > can
> > > > >inspire man to great heights.
> > > > >
> > > > >ciao,
> > > > >dupont
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi"
> > <c_yombi@...>
> > > > >writes:
> > > > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a "Bongo
> > > > house"
> > > > > > while my
> > > > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to
> > school
> > > > and
> > > > > > riding on
> > > > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to end
> > up
> > > > in
> > > > > > the water
> > > > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just
> > that -
> > > > > > words. Don't
> > > > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government in
> > > > order to
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at Bongo's
> > bank
> > > > > > accounts and
> > > > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV. If
> > Bongo
> > > > is
> > > > > > such a
> > > > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his
> > promise
> > > > to
> > > > > > step down
> > > > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever? Ask
> > many
> > > > > > Gabonese and
> > > > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@...>
> > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Hello:
> > > > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa depends
> > more
> > > > on
> > > > > > just
> > > > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all
> > leaders
> > > > of
> > > > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does that
> > > > "keep"
> > > > > > them
> > > > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say
> > about
> > > > the
> > > > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think that it
> > is
> > > > > > >important to focus now on economic development and aid for
> > > > African
> > > > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the
> > marketing
> > > > of
> > > > > > >resources coming out of most African states are not
> > controlled
> > > > by
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
> > > > > > >For example, it is important to develop the infrastructure
> > > > where
> > > > > > oil
> > > > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil that is
> > > > produced.
> > > > > > Or
> > > > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of resources
> > like
> > > > > > timber,
> > > > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by Africans
> > native
> > > > to
> > > > > > >the region where they are produced. These things are more
> > > > > > important
> > > > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in
> > political
> > > > > > control
> > > > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed away. I
> > think
> > > > > > arguably
> > > > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of state
> > deserves
> > > > to
> > > > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill Gates
> > for
> > > > that
> > > > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the
> > stock
> > > > > > market
> > > > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource rich
> > > > African
> > > > > > >country!
> > > > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country than
> > Bush
> > > > or
> > > > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps and
> > > > bounds
> > > > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why I
> > > > think
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at this
> > > > time.
> > > > > > >We have seen in America how term limits together with the
> > > > > > influence
> > > > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the
> > quality
> > > > of
> > > > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are
> > seeing
> > > > that
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it
> > comes
> > > > to
> > > > > > >political leadership.
> > > > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of African
> > states
> > > > if
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to
> > gain
> > > > > > economic
> > > > > > >or political control?
> > > > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda
> > reaches
> > > > the
> > > > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly care about
> > the
> > > > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe after the
> > debaucle
> > > > in
> > > > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in the
> > > > states
> > > > > > >will put more effort into understanding what economic
> > > > development
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > >Africa means to world stability.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Ciao,
> > > > > > >dupont
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne"
> > <bobutne@...>
> > > > > > writes:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably,
> > abdicate)
> > > > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French (5,000
> > > > troops
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting the
> > > > > > Presidential
> > > > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in
> > power.
> > > > The
> > > > > > 500
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and Britain
> > > > world
> > > > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar
> > Bongo
> > > > is
> > > > > > doing
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US and
> > > > world.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West and
> > is
> > > > being
> > > > > > left
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain
> > economic
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > political control. I could expound on this for many,
> > many
> > > > pages
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > here but will desist for now.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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Bakouma - Gabon is turning a former industrial facility - a gigantic
76km cableway that once carried manganese ore to Atlantic ports for
export to world markets - into Africa's most unusual nature reserve.
The Lekedi park, close to Gabon's southern border with the Republic
of Congo, is a larger-than-life experiment in preserving the
environment while providing a living to local inhabitants through
agricultural production and tourism.
From the 1960s to the early 1990s, about 1 800 people worked here
maintaining the cableway, which carried the ore from mines at Moanda
to the Congolese town of M'Binda. From there, the ore was taken by
rail to the Congolese port of Pointe-Noire.
But the opening of the 800km trans-Gabon railroad made the cableway
redundant. Since 1986, the manganese ore, which is used in the
production of steel, batteries and ceramics, has been taken straight
to port in the capital, Libreville.
This left the mining company, Comilog, with the problem of what to do
with the old cableway and the rain forest it traverses.
"After a lot of thought, Comilog came up with a project to preserve
the environment, allied with development of agricultural production
and tourism," said Olivier Dosimont, the operations director.
"It was a long and difficult process. We started by fencing off the
entire 14 000ha of the park. Our idea was to encourage the extensive
breeding of big game and protect it from poachers."
This policy has met with varying degrees of success.
Imported animals such as impalas and antelopes have not flourished,
but local species are doing well, including buffalo, wildebeest and
harnessed bushbucks.
The park has also become a home for the world's largest and most
colourful monkeys, the mandrills with their faces of brilliant red
and white.
Mandrills, which are increasingly endangered with the human invasion
of the rain forest, are found in the wild only in Gabon, the Congo
and Cameroon. Gorillas have also established a foothold in the Lekedi
park.
Comilog also sought to find other jobs for about 100 employees of the
old cableway who have remained on the site. A former engineer is in
charge of fish-farming, and another raises mushrooms.
The fish farm provides about 45% of the income of Sodepal, the
subsidiary company set up to run the park.
The company also has experimented with the breeding of large rodents
called aulacodes, which are related to the porcupine and are
considered a tasty dish in West Africa, and is encouraging the
development of traditional crafts such as pottery and raffia weaving.
"We are trying to teach people the advantages of rearing animals over
hunting them," Dosimont said. "But nature is generous and the idea is
slow in catching on."
Despite all these activities, the park still makes a loss. Dosimont
says that if air fares were lower, more tourists - which is what the
park really needs - would be encouraged to come to Gabon.
http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/Features/0,,2-11-
37_1405587,00.html
Dosimont believes that high airfares are the primary reason why
Gabon has so few tourists. I disagree. My travel agency can send
tourists from the US to Libreville at less than $1500 airfare, the
same-pricing ballpark as the rest of African wildlife destinations.
Other factors that are limiting tourism to Gabon:
1. High-cost and difficulty to obtain tourist visas. The Gabon
consular fee is $100 versus no visa requirement for South Africa for
US citizens and $50 fee to visit Kenya or Tanzania. Besides, once
you apply for a Gabon visa, it takes a lot of time for the visa to
be issued. It took me four weeks when I applied last year to obtain
my Gabon visa.
2. Few English-speaking personnel in the tourism industry. Unless
you speak French, it is very difficult to travel within Gabon.
3. In the 12 National Parks of Gabon, only one has adequate tourist
facilities, Lope Reserve. Loango is building facilities while all
the rest have virtually none. On the other hand, in Lambarene where
Schweitzer's hospital is located, the Ogooue Palace is a fine hotel
with rooms facing the Ogooue River and in Libreville the Okume
Palace InterContinental is an excellent hotel with a highly-trained
and responsive staff.
4. High crime rate in Libreville as in most African large urban
areas. Little for the tourist to do in Libreville other than to take
a boat to Pointe Denis for a day or two.
5. Unlike South and East Africa, the wildlife in Gabon is
unhabituated. The only humans most Gabon wildlife have seen are
hunters. Thus, humans to most Gabon wildlife mean death. For
example, when I cam across two gorillas in Lope last year, their
piercing screams of fear (the female) and outrage (the male) haunt
me to this day. If the Gabonese decide that their wildlife is a
valuable heritage and resource that should be shared with the world,
they will protect it. If not, the whole planet loses.
--- In gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "bobutne" <bobutne@a...>
wrote:
> Bakouma - Gabon is turning a former industrial facility - a
gigantic
> 76km cableway that once carried manganese ore to Atlantic ports
for
> export to world markets - into Africa's most unusual nature
reserve.
>
> The Lekedi park, close to Gabon's southern border with the
Republic
> of Congo, is a larger-than-life experiment in preserving the
> environment while providing a living to local inhabitants through
> agricultural production and tourism.
>
> From the 1960s to the early 1990s, about 1 800 people worked here
> maintaining the cableway, which carried the ore from mines at
Moanda
> to the Congolese town of M'Binda. From there, the ore was taken by
> rail to the Congolese port of Pointe-Noire.
>
> But the opening of the 800km trans-Gabon railroad made the
cableway
> redundant. Since 1986, the manganese ore, which is used in the
> production of steel, batteries and ceramics, has been taken
straight
> to port in the capital, Libreville.
>
> This left the mining company, Comilog, with the problem of what to
do
> with the old cableway and the rain forest it traverses.
>
> "After a lot of thought, Comilog came up with a project to
preserve
> the environment, allied with development of agricultural
production
> and tourism," said Olivier Dosimont, the operations director.
>
> "It was a long and difficult process. We started by fencing off
the
> entire 14 000ha of the park. Our idea was to encourage the
extensive
> breeding of big game and protect it from poachers."
>
> This policy has met with varying degrees of success.
>
> Imported animals such as impalas and antelopes have not
flourished,
> but local species are doing well, including buffalo, wildebeest
and
> harnessed bushbucks.
>
> The park has also become a home for the world's largest and most
> colourful monkeys, the mandrills with their faces of brilliant red
> and white.
>
> Mandrills, which are increasingly endangered with the human
invasion
> of the rain forest, are found in the wild only in Gabon, the Congo
> and Cameroon. Gorillas have also established a foothold in the
Lekedi
> park.
>
> Comilog also sought to find other jobs for about 100 employees of
the
> old cableway who have remained on the site. A former engineer is
in
> charge of fish-farming, and another raises mushrooms.
>
> The fish farm provides about 45% of the income of Sodepal, the
> subsidiary company set up to run the park.
>
> The company also has experimented with the breeding of large
rodents
> called aulacodes, which are related to the porcupine and are
> considered a tasty dish in West Africa, and is encouraging the
> development of traditional crafts such as pottery and raffia
weaving.
>
> "We are trying to teach people the advantages of rearing animals
over
> hunting them," Dosimont said. "But nature is generous and the idea
is
> slow in catching on."
>
> Despite all these activities, the park still makes a loss.
Dosimont
> says that if air fares were lower, more tourists - which is what
the
> park really needs - would be encouraged to come to Gabon.
>
> http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/Features/0,,2-11-
> 37_1405587,00.html
Bob,
Thanks for keeping us informed about these important developments in the
future of Gabon's emerging eco-tourist industry and environmental saving
grace - the park system. I guess as bad as Bongo can be, he is leaving a
promising future for the next generation at least as far as the forests are
concerned. Let's just hope Gabon continues down the right track.
Carol
>From: "bobutne" <bobutne@...>
>Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
>To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Gabon Discussion] Lekedi Park
>Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 13:25:47 -0000
>
>Bakouma - Gabon is turning a former industrial facility - a gigantic
>76km cableway that once carried manganese ore to Atlantic ports for
>export to world markets - into Africa's most unusual nature reserve.
>
>The Lekedi park, close to Gabon's southern border with the Republic
>of Congo, is a larger-than-life experiment in preserving the
>environment while providing a living to local inhabitants through
>agricultural production and tourism.
>
>From the 1960s to the early 1990s, about 1 800 people worked here
>maintaining the cableway, which carried the ore from mines at Moanda
>to the Congolese town of M'Binda. From there, the ore was taken by
>rail to the Congolese port of Pointe-Noire.
>
>But the opening of the 800km trans-Gabon railroad made the cableway
>redundant. Since 1986, the manganese ore, which is used in the
>production of steel, batteries and ceramics, has been taken straight
>to port in the capital, Libreville.
>
>This left the mining company, Comilog, with the problem of what to do
>with the old cableway and the rain forest it traverses.
>
>"After a lot of thought, Comilog came up with a project to preserve
>the environment, allied with development of agricultural production
>and tourism," said Olivier Dosimont, the operations director.
>
>"It was a long and difficult process. We started by fencing off the
>entire 14 000ha of the park. Our idea was to encourage the extensive
>breeding of big game and protect it from poachers."
>
>This policy has met with varying degrees of success.
>
>Imported animals such as impalas and antelopes have not flourished,
>but local species are doing well, including buffalo, wildebeest and
>harnessed bushbucks.
>
>The park has also become a home for the world's largest and most
>colourful monkeys, the mandrills with their faces of brilliant red
>and white.
>
>Mandrills, which are increasingly endangered with the human invasion
>of the rain forest, are found in the wild only in Gabon, the Congo
>and Cameroon. Gorillas have also established a foothold in the Lekedi
>park.
>
>Comilog also sought to find other jobs for about 100 employees of the
>old cableway who have remained on the site. A former engineer is in
>charge of fish-farming, and another raises mushrooms.
>
>The fish farm provides about 45% of the income of Sodepal, the
>subsidiary company set up to run the park.
>
>The company also has experimented with the breeding of large rodents
>called aulacodes, which are related to the porcupine and are
>considered a tasty dish in West Africa, and is encouraging the
>development of traditional crafts such as pottery and raffia weaving.
>
>"We are trying to teach people the advantages of rearing animals over
>hunting them," Dosimont said. "But nature is generous and the idea is
>slow in catching on."
>
>Despite all these activities, the park still makes a loss. Dosimont
>says that if air fares were lower, more tourists - which is what the
>park really needs - would be encouraged to come to Gabon.
>
>http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/Features/0,,2-11-
>37_1405587,00.html
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental controls.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
Below is message #154 written in July 2002. In it, I dissed Fay for
acting foolishly and dangerously around elephants. In January 2003,
this is what happened to this "bush fool":
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/01/0108_030108_fay.html
--- In gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "bobutne" <bobutne@a...>
wrote:
> Fay took a lot of heat, after initially sending back daily
messages
> posted on the Internet, for often calling his trek crew, "boys".
His
> crew must have thought him crazy but for about $7 a day, and no
other
> jobs to be had, they joined. He appeared a little "nuts" to me,
too.
> According to Fay, he never wore a shirt, long pants or boots. Just
> shorts and floppy sandals. Maybe he thought that it's the
pygmy/macho
> way and not how the rest of the world treks through deep, insect-
> infected bush. Yelling and waving arms at elephants is rather
bizarre
> behavior, too. I know, from personal experience, better to just
leave
> them at peace and if they charge, run like hell and hide.
>
> I take issue, also, about his condemnation of all logging and
hunting
> within the virgin forests.
>
> Where once there were thousands of small villages throughout the
> forests, there remain few today. Practically everyone in Gabon,
> including most pygmies, has migrated to the towns or near the main
> roads leaving old villages to disappear back into the bush and
fauna
> to replenish. Forests that were harvested for Okume and other
> valuable trees over 20 years ago, have fully regrown with the old
> logging trails spreading new forms of plants and trees. This is
the
> case in Mikongo/La Lope that was harvested over 20 years ago and
> elsewhere in Gabon.
>
> Hunting has been a way of life for hundreds of miillions of years
for
> the forest dwellers. There are still hundreds if not thousands of
> pygmies within the Gabon forests who hunt for survival and
villagers
> of all tribes who hunt for their village's dietary needs. Where it
> makes sense to stop hunting are the poachers who sell for export
to
> Libreville and other urban markets since these markets have an
> abundant supply of alternatives meats. Heavy fines could be
imposed
> on anyone selling bush meat outside of their village and to
> restaurants in Libreville and elsewhere that feature bush meat.
>
> Looking forward to what others think about these issues.
Thanks Carol. As President Bongo is reaching his twilight years, he
appears more concerned with his legacy. Accumulating power and wealth
is a game he has already won. The others are more difficult and more
challenging. Let's hope that for the sake of all Gabonese that he
adopts similar policies to cherish, to protect, and to develop
Gabon's human resources.
--- In gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com, "C Yombi" <c_yombi@h...>
wrote:
> Bob,
> Thanks for keeping us informed about these important developments
in the
> future of Gabon's emerging eco-tourist industry and environmental
saving
> grace - the park system. I guess as bad as Bongo can be, he is
leaving a
> promising future for the next generation at least as far as the
forests are
> concerned. Let's just hope Gabon continues down the right track.
>
> Carol
>
> >From: "bobutne" <bobutne@a...>
> >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] Lekedi Park
> >Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 13:25:47 -0000
> >
> >Bakouma - Gabon is turning a former industrial facility - a
gigantic
> >76km cableway that once carried manganese ore to Atlantic ports for
> >export to world markets - into Africa's most unusual nature
reserve.
> >
> >The Lekedi park, close to Gabon's southern border with the Republic
> >of Congo, is a larger-than-life experiment in preserving the
> >environment while providing a living to local inhabitants through
> >agricultural production and tourism.
> >
> >From the 1960s to the early 1990s, about 1 800 people worked here
> >maintaining the cableway, which carried the ore from mines at
Moanda
> >to the Congolese town of M'Binda. From there, the ore was taken by
> >rail to the Congolese port of Pointe-Noire.
> >
> >But the opening of the 800km trans-Gabon railroad made the cableway
> >redundant. Since 1986, the manganese ore, which is used in the
> >production of steel, batteries and ceramics, has been taken
straight
> >to port in the capital, Libreville.
> >
> >This left the mining company, Comilog, with the problem of what to
do
> >with the old cableway and the rain forest it traverses.
> >
> >"After a lot of thought, Comilog came up with a project to preserve
> >the environment, allied with development of agricultural production
> >and tourism," said Olivier Dosimont, the operations director.
> >
> >"It was a long and difficult process. We started by fencing off the
> >entire 14 000ha of the park. Our idea was to encourage the
extensive
> >breeding of big game and protect it from poachers."
> >
> >This policy has met with varying degrees of success.
> >
> >Imported animals such as impalas and antelopes have not flourished,
> >but local species are doing well, including buffalo, wildebeest and
> >harnessed bushbucks.
> >
> >The park has also become a home for the world's largest and most
> >colourful monkeys, the mandrills with their faces of brilliant red
> >and white.
> >
> >Mandrills, which are increasingly endangered with the human
invasion
> >of the rain forest, are found in the wild only in Gabon, the Congo
> >and Cameroon. Gorillas have also established a foothold in the
Lekedi
> >park.
> >
> >Comilog also sought to find other jobs for about 100 employees of
the
> >old cableway who have remained on the site. A former engineer is in
> >charge of fish-farming, and another raises mushrooms.
> >
> >The fish farm provides about 45% of the income of Sodepal, the
> >subsidiary company set up to run the park.
> >
> >The company also has experimented with the breeding of large
rodents
> >called aulacodes, which are related to the porcupine and are
> >considered a tasty dish in West Africa, and is encouraging the
> >development of traditional crafts such as pottery and raffia
weaving.
> >
> >"We are trying to teach people the advantages of rearing animals
over
> >hunting them," Dosimont said. "But nature is generous and the idea
is
> >slow in catching on."
> >
> >Despite all these activities, the park still makes a loss. Dosimont
> >says that if air fares were lower, more tourists - which is what
the
> >park really needs - would be encouraged to come to Gabon.
> >
> >http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/Features/0,,2-11-
> >37_1405587,00.html
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental
controls.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental
Why are you so focused on this? Like I said before, we have the similar
stuff going on here in the US. Maybe you forgot how Bush became
President. Yet, maybe you even voted for Bush or support him still. In
Bongo's case it is good for Africa that he is still in power. Meanwhile
the Bush administration has been a disaster for the democratic process.
You seem to make a lot of fuss about Bongo's accounts but I will wager
that you do not blink an eye at the accounts of the many billionares in
America who are involved in shady business deals or the politicians who
are on the payroll of them. What hypocrisy! to point a finger at Bongo
and then indirectly benefit from all the shady crap going on in the US.
Speaking of the UN, we all know how much they are in the pocket of the US
and the trouble that is causing them around the world. The last time
that I checked, the US owed them billions of dollars in back dues. Also,
how many young kids were killed in Iraq because of UN sanctions? Did you
make any noise about that? Bongo needs as much money as he can get to
just put a word in for Gabon at the table of the corrupt Western leaders.
You seem brainwashed because you blindly follow those big crooks who have
you chasing down the wrong road, when you should be driving down the road
that leads to their house.
Ciao,
dupont
On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 01:57:20 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
writes:
> May be it's just you who is brainwashed... Or may be people like the
> UN are
> just making it all up.....
>
>
> Vol 43 Number 25 - 20 December 2002
>
> Hear those drums
>
> For want of opposition, President Bongo can plan to rule until 2012
> After three decades at the head of one of Africa's worst managed and
> most
> corrupt oil economies, President Omar Bongo might well expect some
> political
> trouble. Quite the opposite. His ruling Parti Démocratique Gabonais
> (PDG)
> will sweep the board in the local elections on 29 December and Bongo
> (health
> permitting) could win yet another seven-year presidential term in
> the
> election due in 2005. The oppositionists of the early 1990s have
> been
> exiled, crushed or coopted.
>
> Gabonese have lost interest in the perennially rigged elections.
> Turnout at
> the legislative polls last December was under 20 per cent and may be
> lower
> still in the local polls. Electoral registers have been doctored
> down to
> 523,000: there were 775,000 names on the lists for the 2001
> elections. Many
> nominal political opponents are in Bongo's pay, the rest are divided
> and
> lack national support. For wealthy Gabonese, elections are a
> patronage
> competition which shares out jobs and resources from 250,000 barrels
> of oil
> a day, plus smaller timber and manganese exports.
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
>
> Vol 42 Number 16 - 10 August 2001
>
> Hey big spender
>
> The fuss over how President El Hadj Omar Bongo came to deposit over
> US$180
> million in three private Citibank accounts in New York won't go
> away. First
> raised in United States Senate hearings in November 1999, it is now
> the
> subject of an embarrassing law suit against Bongo in the US Federal
> Court,
> Washington. Bongo's lawyers are trying to establish diplomatic
> immunity for
> him as a serving head of a state recognised by the US government.
> And with
> another US legal suit from a scrap metal company pending, Bongo's
> big-spending habits Stateside he bought four Boeing passenger jets
> in June
> won't win him any respite from his legal adversaries there.
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
>
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
>
> Vol 40 Number 22 - 05 November 1999
>
> Digging deeper holes
>
> A massive hole in Gabon's public finances - some say of more than
> US$350
> million - is at the heart of its growing financial and political
> crisis. By
> the end of last year, arrears to foreign creditors were estimated at
> 160
> billion CFA francs ($256.4 mn.) - and have probably doubled this
> year.
> President Omar Bongo's government also has arrears of CFA 100 bn. to
> local
> banks. With an oil-fired GNP per head of $4,000, Gabon is one of
> Africa's
> wealthiest states. Yet most people live in poverty and a damning new
> report
> from the United Nations Development Programme says social services
> are
> collapsing. Tracing the missing $350 mn. preoccupies both foreign
> creditors
> and Gabonese who worry about government corruption and
> mismanagement. And
> President Bongo is no longer able to rely on Paris nor Washington to
> block
> exposure of murky areas in his government. He tried everything,
> including a
> personal call to French President Jacques Chirac, to stifle the
> inquiry by
> magistrate Eva Joly into Elf-Aquitaine's unorthodox financing
> operations.
>
> This focussed on Bongo's relationship with André Tarallo,
> Elf-Gabon's
> disgraced and ousted Président-Directeur Général. Late last month,
> Joly's
> inquiries moved on when a Swiss magistrate, Paul Parraudin, produced
> bank
> records showing that over 600 mn. French francs ($97 mn.) had been
> channelled through Tarallo's Swiss account from the Gabonese
> presidency.
> Back home, after a year of strikes, demonstrations and the payments
> crisis,
> Bongo's government needs a new deal with the International Monetary
> Fund.
> Last year, the Fund suspended its Extended Financing Facility for
> several
> reasons, including 'lack of transparency in public finance'
> (Fundspeak for
> corruption). Libreville's negotiating team is led by respected
> Finance
> Minister Emile Doumba, who has been trying, with limited success, to
>
> persuade his ministerial colleagues and the presidency to implement
> an
> IMF-inspired austerity programme.
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Fr
eedom
>
> in the World 1998-99: Gabon
> Freedom House Survey 1999
> Economy: Capitalist (highly corrupt)
> Population: 1,200,000
> PPP: $3,766
> Life Expectancy: 54
> Ethnic Groups: Fang, Eshira, Bapounou, Bateke, other Bantu, other
> Africans,
> Europeans
> Polity: Dominant party
> Capital: Libreville
> Political Rights: 5
> Civil Liberties: 4
> Status: Partly Free
>
>
>
> Overview
> In December, President Omar Bongo was returned to office for a
> seven-year
> term. The polling, which was partially boycotted by the opposition,
> was
> marked by serious irregularities. The nominally independent National
>
> Election Commission, which was created under the new constitution
> approved
> by referendum in 1995, proved neither autonomous nor competent.
> Behind a
> facade of democratic institutions, Bongo used patronage,
> manipulation, and
> intimidation to retain power. In Libreville in May, student riots
> prompted
> by deteriorating economic conditions were quickly suppressed. At
> least ten
> students were seriously hurt. Three decades of autocratic rule have
> made
> Bongo among the world's richest men and left the vast majority of
> oil-rich
> Gabon's 1.4 million people mired in poverty. Bongo is strongly
> backed by the
> army and by France. The highly profitable French ELF oil company
> plays a
> dominant role in the country's economic and political life.
>
> Straddling the equator on central Africa's west coast, Gabon gained
> independence from France in 1960. Bongo, whom France raised from
> soldier to
> president in 1967, completed his predecessor's consolidation of
> power by
> officially outlawing the opposition. France, which maintains 600
> marines in
> Gabon, has intervened twice to preserve Bongo's regime. In 1990,
> protests
> prompted by economic duress forced Bongo to accept a conference that
>
> opposition leaders hoped would promote a peaceful democratic
> transition.
> Bongo retained power, however, in rigged 1993 elections that sparked
> violent
> protests and repression led by his Presidential Guard. The 1994
> Paris
> Accords claimed to institute true democratic reforms. Municipal
> elections in
> 1996 saw major opposition gains, including the election of Paul Mba
> Abbesole, the leader of the largest opposition party, as mayor of
> Libreville. Legislative polls delayed by decree until December 1996
> were
> again beset by fraud as Bongo's Gabon Democratic Party won an
> overwhelming,
> but unconvincing victory.
>
> Political Rights and Civil Liberties
> Despite a gradual political opening since 1990, Gabon's citizens
> have never
> been able to exercise their constitutional right to change their
> government
> democratically. Bongo's 1998 electoral victory with 61 percent of
> the vote
> followed a campaign that made profligate use of state resources and
> state
> media to promote his incumbency. Legislative elections have also
> been
> seriously flawed.
>
> State institutions are influenced or controlled by Bongo and a small
> elite
> around him. The judiciary suffers from political interference.
> Rights to
> legal counsel and public criminal trials are generally respected,
> but the
> law presumes guilt. Judges may deliver summary verdicts, and torture
> remains
> a standard route to produce confessions. Prison conditions are
> marked by
> beatings and insufficient food, water, and medical care. The
> government
> often detains refugees without charge, and there are reports of
> forced labor
> by detainees. Rights of assembly and association are
> constitutionally
> guaranteed, but permits required for public gatherings are sometimes
>
> refused. Freedom to form and join political parties is generally
> respected,
> but civil servants may face harassment based on their associations.
> Nongovernmental organizations operate openly, although the Gabonese
> League
> of Human Rights has reported threats and harassment.
>
> A government daily and approximately one dozen private weeklies,
> which are
> primarily controlled by opposition parties, are published. The
> government
> overwhelmingly dominates the broadcast media, which reach a far
> larger
> audience. Only a few private broadcasters have been licensed, and
> their
> viability is tenuous. A 1998 crackdown on private media has raised
> serious
> concerns for free expression. In February, Radio Soleil, which was
> associated with the main Bucherons opposition party, was closed. In
> January,
> a cartoonist was sentenced to six months imprisonment for lampooning
> Bongo.
> Publication of his newspaper was suspended for one month. The
> president of
> the journalists' union was jailed for eight months. In August, the
> opposition newspaper La Griffe was closed, and three of its staff
> received
> eight-month suspended sentences after publishing allegations of
> ivory
> smuggling by the national airline. Soldiers raided La Griffe offices
> and
> seized equipment. Foreign newspapers, magazines, and broadcasts are
> usually
> widely available, but editions criticizing Bongo have been seized.
>
> Most of the small formal sector work force is unionized, although
> unions
> must register with the government in order to be officially
> recognized.
> Despite legal protections, the government has taken action against
> numerous
> strikers and unions and used force to suppress illegal
> demonstrations. While
> no legal restrictions on travel exist, harassment on political and
> ethnic
> bases has been reported. Religious freedom is constitutionally
> guaranteed
> and respected. An official ban on Jehovah's Witnesses is not
> enforced.
>
> Legal protections for women include equal access laws for education,
>
> business, and investment. In addition to owning property and
> businesses,
> women constitute more than 50 percent of the salaried workforce in
> the
> health and trade sectors. At the same time, there are only six women
> in the
> 120-member National Assembly and one woman in the cabinet. Women
> continue to
> face legal and cultural discrimination, particularly in rural areas,
> and are
> reportedly subject to widespread domestic violence.
>
> Little wealth from Gabon's oil revenues reaches the broad populace,
> most of
> which is engaged in subsistence farming. Corruption is endemic.
>
>
>
>
> >From: dupont3@...
> >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> >Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:18:18 -0700
> >
> >Whoever would say that the Gabonese are worse off now than
> independence
> >must be brainwashed or does not know a damm thing about how it was
> like
> >to reorganize institutions after a being under a colonial power.
> Also,
> >what a disrespect to all the people who worked hard for an
> independent
> >and for 40 yrs. stable Gabon.
> >To go on criticizing the government without coming up with any
> >convincing alternative ideas other than conspiracy theories and
> rumour is
> >with all due respect, disingenuous and insensitive poppycock.
> >
> >Ciao,
> >dupont
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:31:32 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
> >writes:
> > > Obvious point - Bongo has had almost 40 yrs to make a difference
> and
> > > the
> > > Gabonese are worse off now than at independence - bad track
> record.
> > > If you
> > > think elections were fair and square then you do not agree with
> > > independent
> > > election observers form around the world. In the end, it is not
> what
> > > I want
> > > for Gabon - but what the GABONESE want for themselves - my
> husband
> > > included
> > > who is from Gabon.
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: dupont3@...
> > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:59:19 -0700
> > > >
> > > >Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have been
> to
> > > poorly
> > > >supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you consider
> to be
> > > the
> > > >obvious hypocrisy.
> > > >But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many poor
> people
> > > is no
> > > >different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor people
> here
> > > in the
> > > >US do not have health insurance. While rich people spend money
> > > lavishly
> > > >in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless people
> abound
> > > on
> > > >the streets and our political system although 2 party,
> > > disenfranchises
> > > >many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been there done
> > > that" when
> > > >you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking about a
> > > nations
> > > >development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist system
> like
> > > in
> > > >Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
> > > >I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it takes to
> jump
> > > start
> > > >any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing wrong with
> a
> > > healthy
> > > >dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that idealistic values
> are
> > > the
> > > >foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is getting
> people
> > > to
> > > >believe in the face of the harsh realities of capitalism.
> > > >Now to say that a majority of people do not support President
> Bongo
> > > is
> > > >not true. He has won elections fair and square, for all
> that's
> > > worth
> > > >and beyond that is the most capable person for the job. The man
> is
> > > a
> > > >national treasure! Why would you want him out?
> > > >If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo then you
> are
> > > not
> > > >being realistic about facing the challenges of such
> underdeveloped
> > > >nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the hard
> issues
> > > and
> > > >instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good soap
> opera.
> > > >I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to world
> poverty.
> > > Step
> > > >back and look at this picture and you will see that the
> difference
> > > points
> > > >to the policies of the so-called first world nations and not
> that
> > > of a
> > > >few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are still
> poor
> > > in
> > > >comparison.
> > > >
> > > >Ciao,
> > > >dupont
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi"
> <c_yombi@...>
> > > >writes:
> > > > > With all due respect,
> > > > > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the people's
> > > level?
> > > > > Have you
> > > > > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only
> > > his"friends"?
> > > > > Have you
> > > > > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of the
> > > obvious
> > > > > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the
> national
> > > > > train
> > > > > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to
> > > Franceville
> > > > > for his
> > > > > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation to
> the
> > > > > capital
> > > > > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to
> > > distribute
> > > > > condoms
> > > > > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft drinks
> has a
> > > > > problem and
> > > > > it starts with the government.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, when a majority of the population does not support the
> > > > > president and
> > > > > had little or no voice to change this, is this a great
> > > democracy?
> > > > > Another
> > > > > principle of the United State's founding fathers was freedom
> of
> > > > > choice. Have
> > > > > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
> > > > >
> > > > > How can individuals work toward supporting their governments
> > > and
> > > > > country if
> > > > > the government is taking food out of their mouths and
> spending
> > > it on
> > > > > lavish
> > > > > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics where
> > > women
> > > > > struggle
> > > > > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary school
> > > students
> > > > > who have
> > > > > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic
> > > approach to
> > > > > the
> > > > > reality of one party governments in Africa would be a better
> > > > > approach.
> > > > >
> > > > > Carol
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: dupont3@...
> > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > > > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating on
> > > Bongo's
> > > > > bank
> > > > > >account will get you nowhere.
> > > > > >Ever thought about working with the President to solve some
> of
> > > the
> > > > > >nations problems?
> > > > > >Here in America we have many of the same problems and this
> is
> > > the
> > > > > >wealthiest country in the world!
> > > > > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying schools
> in
> > > inner
> > > > > cities
> > > > > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing together.
> We
> > > are
> > > > > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time when
> our
> > > > > schools
> > > > > >need books.
> > > > > >I would also like to ask how is it that having President
> Bongo
> > > step
> > > > > down
> > > > > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation for the
> > > better?
> > > > > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is
> dependent
> > > on
> > > > > the
> > > > > >French for many things. If the French were to leave would
> it
> > > make
> > > > > >anything better? I think not, it would not make anything
> > > better
> > > > > and
> > > > > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably destabilize
> the
> > > > > country and
> > > > > >the region has the resulting power grab would be like going
> > > back in
> > > > > time.
> > > > > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to think
> > > more
> > > > > about
> > > > > >fighting for power than the issues important for developing
> > > their
> > > > > >country.
> > > > > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a
> solution.
> > > In
> > > > > Gabon
> > > > > >each citizen must first make an effort to support the
> state.
> > > Only
> > > > > then
> > > > > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major
> issues.The
> > > > > founding
> > > > > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand Divided
> We
> > > > > Fall"
> > > > > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must first
> find
> > > a
> > > > > common
> > > > > >ground to stand on.
> > > > > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and sure,
> there
> > > are
> > > > > many
> > > > > >who disagree with the President. But there are also many
> who
> > > do
> > > > > not
> > > > > >understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo.
> Many
> > > who do
> > > > > not
> > > > > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not
> only
> > > > > Africans,
> > > > > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop
> their
> > > > > economies in
> > > > > >this new world order.
> > > > > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can help
> the
> > > > > President
> > > > > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
> > > > > >I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's
> > > inauguration
> > > > > speech
> > > > > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for you,
> but
> > > what
> > > > > you can
> > > > > >do for your country."
> > > > > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood
> correctly,
> > > can
> > > > > >inspire man to great heights.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >ciao,
> > > > > >dupont
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi"
> > > <c_yombi@...>
> > > > > >writes:
> > > > > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a
> "Bongo
> > > > > house"
> > > > > > > while my
> > > > > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to
> > > school
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > riding on
> > > > > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to
> end
> > > up
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > the water
> > > > > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just
> > > that -
> > > > > > > words. Don't
> > > > > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government
> in
> > > > > order to
> > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at
> Bongo's
> > > bank
> > > > > > > accounts and
> > > > > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV.
> If
> > > Bongo
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > such a
> > > > > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his
> > > promise
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > step down
> > > > > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever?
> Ask
> > > many
> > > > > > > Gabonese and
> > > > > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@...>
> > > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Hello:
> > > > > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa depends
> > > more
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all
> > > leaders
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does
> that
> > > > > "keep"
> > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say
> > > about
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think
> that it
> > > is
> > > > > > > >important to focus now on economic development and aid
> for
> > > > > African
> > > > > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the
> > > marketing
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > >resources coming out of most African states are not
> > > controlled
> > > > > by
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
> > > > > > > >For example, it is important to develop the
> infrastructure
> > > > > where
> > > > > > > oil
> > > > > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil that is
> > > > > produced.
> > > > > > > Or
> > > > > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of resources
> > > like
> > > > > > > timber,
> > > > > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by
> Africans
> > > native
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > >the region where they are produced. These things are
> more
> > > > > > > important
> > > > > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in
> > > political
> > > > > > > control
> > > > > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed away. I
> > > think
> > > > > > > arguably
> > > > > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of state
> > > deserves
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill
> Gates
> > > for
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the
> > > stock
> > > > > > > market
> > > > > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource
> rich
> > > > > African
> > > > > > > >country!
> > > > > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country
> than
> > > Bush
> > > > > or
> > > > > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps
> and
> > > > > bounds
> > > > > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why
> I
> > > > > think
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at
> this
> > > > > time.
> > > > > > > >We have seen in America how term limits together with
> the
> > > > > > > influence
> > > > > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the
> > > quality
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are
> > > seeing
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it
> > > comes
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > >political leadership.
> > > > > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of African
> > > states
> > > > > if
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to
> > > gain
> > > > > > > economic
> > > > > > > >or political control?
> > > > > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda
> > > reaches
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly care
> about
> > > the
> > > > > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe after the
> > > debaucle
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in
> the
> > > > > states
> > > > > > > >will put more effort into understanding what economic
> > > > > development
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > >Africa means to world stability.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Ciao,
> > > > > > > >dupont
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne"
> > > <bobutne@...>
> > > > > > > writes:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably,
> > > abdicate)
> > > > > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French
> (5,000
> > > > > troops
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting
> the
> > > > > > > Presidential
> > > > > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in
> > > power.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > 500
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and
> Britain
> > > > > world
> > > > > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar
> > > Bongo
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > doing
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US
> and
> > > > > world.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West
> and
> > > is
> > > > > being
> > > > > > > left
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain
> > > economic
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > political control. I could expound on this for many,
> > > many
> > > > > pages
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > here but will desist for now.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
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The point is that you assume you know what everybody else is doing and
thinking. Before getting on your soap box, may be you should find out about
the people you are accusing of collusion. You don't know me or have any
information about my personal beliefs. You have no idea how I voted in the
last elections or even if I am a registered voter. You know nothing about my
background or my lifestyle.
You bash the UN but seem to glaze over reality of life in Gabon for the
majority of the population. How many children die each day in Iraq because
of malnutrition and lack of access to healthcare? How many NGOs deal with
the everyday care of the world's population? The reality of life is not the
ideal. Often, we must choose between the lesser of two evils.
No one has disputed your points about the Bush administration. You bring up
billionaires like Bill Gates. He has made his money in the private sector,
and he has given BILLIONS away to help with research and development of
needed vaccines and HIV medications in Africa and elsewhere. The Queen of
England has no political power in Great Britain and the people choose to
support the royal family monetarily. Bongo on the other hand is directly
responsible, just like Bush, for the policies and corruption in his country.
You assume your point is the best and leave no room for the off chance that
you could be wrong. In the end everyone is entitled to their own opinions,
but this should be a discussion forum and not a crusade to convert those to
your view of the world. There is no single correct point of view on any
issue. Our own cultural biases and upbringings play a part in our
understanding and interactions with those that are different than us. This
is very apparent with you.
(And by the way, I used to live down the road from the crook's house - I
know how he lives the one day a year he chooses to reside there.)
>From: dupont3@...
>Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
>To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
>Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:51:03 -0700
>
>Why are you so focused on this? Like I said before, we have the similar
>stuff going on here in the US. Maybe you forgot how Bush became
>President. Yet, maybe you even voted for Bush or support him still. In
>Bongo's case it is good for Africa that he is still in power. Meanwhile
>the Bush administration has been a disaster for the democratic process.
>You seem to make a lot of fuss about Bongo's accounts but I will wager
>that you do not blink an eye at the accounts of the many billionares in
>America who are involved in shady business deals or the politicians who
>are on the payroll of them. What hypocrisy! to point a finger at Bongo
>and then indirectly benefit from all the shady crap going on in the US.
>Speaking of the UN, we all know how much they are in the pocket of the US
>and the trouble that is causing them around the world. The last time
>that I checked, the US owed them billions of dollars in back dues. Also,
>how many young kids were killed in Iraq because of UN sanctions? Did you
>make any noise about that? Bongo needs as much money as he can get to
>just put a word in for Gabon at the table of the corrupt Western leaders.
>You seem brainwashed because you blindly follow those big crooks who have
>you chasing down the wrong road, when you should be driving down the road
>that leads to their house.
>
>
>Ciao,
>dupont
>
>
>On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 01:57:20 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
>writes:
> > May be it's just you who is brainwashed... Or may be people like the
> > UN are
> > just making it all up.....
> >
> >
> > Vol 43 Number 25 - 20 December 2002
> >
> > Hear those drums
> >
> > For want of opposition, President Bongo can plan to rule until 2012
> > After three decades at the head of one of Africa's worst managed and
> > most
> > corrupt oil economies, President Omar Bongo might well expect some
> > political
> > trouble. Quite the opposite. His ruling Parti Démocratique Gabonais
> > (PDG)
> > will sweep the board in the local elections on 29 December and Bongo
> > (health
> > permitting) could win yet another seven-year presidential term in
> > the
> > election due in 2005. The oppositionists of the early 1990s have
> > been
> > exiled, crushed or coopted.
> >
> > Gabonese have lost interest in the perennially rigged elections.
> > Turnout at
> > the legislative polls last December was under 20 per cent and may be
> > lower
> > still in the local polls. Electoral registers have been doctored
> > down to
> > 523,000: there were 775,000 names on the lists for the 2001
> > elections. Many
> > nominal political opponents are in Bongo's pay, the rest are divided
> > and
> > lack national support. For wealthy Gabonese, elections are a
> > patronage
> > competition which shares out jobs and resources from 250,000 barrels
> > of oil
> > a day, plus smaller timber and manganese exports.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------
> >
> > Vol 42 Number 16 - 10 August 2001
> >
> > Hey big spender
> >
> > The fuss over how President El Hadj Omar Bongo came to deposit over
> > US$180
> > million in three private Citibank accounts in New York won't go
> > away. First
> > raised in United States Senate hearings in November 1999, it is now
> > the
> > subject of an embarrassing law suit against Bongo in the US Federal
> > Court,
> > Washington. Bongo's lawyers are trying to establish diplomatic
> > immunity for
> > him as a serving head of a state recognised by the US government.
> > And with
> > another US legal suit from a scrap metal company pending, Bongo's
> > big-spending habits Stateside he bought four Boeing passenger jets
> > in June
> > won't win him any respite from his legal adversaries there.
> >
> >
> >
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------
> >
> >
> >
> >
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-------
> >
> > Vol 40 Number 22 - 05 November 1999
> >
> > Digging deeper holes
> >
> > A massive hole in Gabon's public finances - some say of more than
> > US$350
> > million - is at the heart of its growing financial and political
> > crisis. By
> > the end of last year, arrears to foreign creditors were estimated at
> > 160
> > billion CFA francs ($256.4 mn.) - and have probably doubled this
> > year.
> > President Omar Bongo's government also has arrears of CFA 100 bn. to
> > local
> > banks. With an oil-fired GNP per head of $4,000, Gabon is one of
> > Africa's
> > wealthiest states. Yet most people live in poverty and a damning new
> > report
> > from the United Nations Development Programme says social services
> > are
> > collapsing. Tracing the missing $350 mn. preoccupies both foreign
> > creditors
> > and Gabonese who worry about government corruption and
> > mismanagement. And
> > President Bongo is no longer able to rely on Paris nor Washington to
> > block
> > exposure of murky areas in his government. He tried everything,
> > including a
> > personal call to French President Jacques Chirac, to stifle the
> > inquiry by
> > magistrate Eva Joly into Elf-Aquitaine's unorthodox financing
> > operations.
> >
> > This focussed on Bongo's relationship with André Tarallo,
> > Elf-Gabon's
> > disgraced and ousted Président-Directeur Général. Late last month,
> > Joly's
> > inquiries moved on when a Swiss magistrate, Paul Parraudin, produced
> > bank
> > records showing that over 600 mn. French francs ($97 mn.) had been
> > channelled through Tarallo's Swiss account from the Gabonese
> > presidency.
> > Back home, after a year of strikes, demonstrations and the payments
> > crisis,
> > Bongo's government needs a new deal with the International Monetary
> > Fund.
> > Last year, the Fund suspended its Extended Financing Facility for
> > several
> > reasons, including 'lack of transparency in public finance'
> > (Fundspeak for
> > corruption). Libreville's negotiating team is led by respected
> > Finance
> > Minister Emile Doumba, who has been trying, with limited success, to
> >
> > persuade his ministerial colleagues and the presidency to implement
> > an
> > IMF-inspired austerity programme.
> >
> >
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------Fr
>eedom
> >
> > in the World 1998-99: Gabon
> > Freedom House Survey 1999
> > Economy: Capitalist (highly corrupt)
> > Population: 1,200,000
> > PPP: $3,766
> > Life Expectancy: 54
> > Ethnic Groups: Fang, Eshira, Bapounou, Bateke, other Bantu, other
> > Africans,
> > Europeans
> > Polity: Dominant party
> > Capital: Libreville
> > Political Rights: 5
> > Civil Liberties: 4
> > Status: Partly Free
> >
> >
> >
> > Overview
> > In December, President Omar Bongo was returned to office for a
> > seven-year
> > term. The polling, which was partially boycotted by the opposition,
> > was
> > marked by serious irregularities. The nominally independent National
> >
> > Election Commission, which was created under the new constitution
> > approved
> > by referendum in 1995, proved neither autonomous nor competent.
> > Behind a
> > facade of democratic institutions, Bongo used patronage,
> > manipulation, and
> > intimidation to retain power. In Libreville in May, student riots
> > prompted
> > by deteriorating economic conditions were quickly suppressed. At
> > least ten
> > students were seriously hurt. Three decades of autocratic rule have
> > made
> > Bongo among the world's richest men and left the vast majority of
> > oil-rich
> > Gabon's 1.4 million people mired in poverty. Bongo is strongly
> > backed by the
> > army and by France. The highly profitable French ELF oil company
> > plays a
> > dominant role in the country's economic and political life.
> >
> > Straddling the equator on central Africa's west coast, Gabon gained
> > independence from France in 1960. Bongo, whom France raised from
> > soldier to
> > president in 1967, completed his predecessor's consolidation of
> > power by
> > officially outlawing the opposition. France, which maintains 600
> > marines in
> > Gabon, has intervened twice to preserve Bongo's regime. In 1990,
> > protests
> > prompted by economic duress forced Bongo to accept a conference that
> >
> > opposition leaders hoped would promote a peaceful democratic
> > transition.
> > Bongo retained power, however, in rigged 1993 elections that sparked
> > violent
> > protests and repression led by his Presidential Guard. The 1994
> > Paris
> > Accords claimed to institute true democratic reforms. Municipal
> > elections in
> > 1996 saw major opposition gains, including the election of Paul Mba
> > Abbesole, the leader of the largest opposition party, as mayor of
> > Libreville. Legislative polls delayed by decree until December 1996
> > were
> > again beset by fraud as Bongo's Gabon Democratic Party won an
> > overwhelming,
> > but unconvincing victory.
> >
> > Political Rights and Civil Liberties
> > Despite a gradual political opening since 1990, Gabon's citizens
> > have never
> > been able to exercise their constitutional right to change their
> > government
> > democratically. Bongo's 1998 electoral victory with 61 percent of
> > the vote
> > followed a campaign that made profligate use of state resources and
> > state
> > media to promote his incumbency. Legislative elections have also
> > been
> > seriously flawed.
> >
> > State institutions are influenced or controlled by Bongo and a small
> > elite
> > around him. The judiciary suffers from political interference.
> > Rights to
> > legal counsel and public criminal trials are generally respected,
> > but the
> > law presumes guilt. Judges may deliver summary verdicts, and torture
> > remains
> > a standard route to produce confessions. Prison conditions are
> > marked by
> > beatings and insufficient food, water, and medical care. The
> > government
> > often detains refugees without charge, and there are reports of
> > forced labor
> > by detainees. Rights of assembly and association are
> > constitutionally
> > guaranteed, but permits required for public gatherings are sometimes
> >
> > refused. Freedom to form and join political parties is generally
> > respected,
> > but civil servants may face harassment based on their associations.
> > Nongovernmental organizations operate openly, although the Gabonese
> > League
> > of Human Rights has reported threats and harassment.
> >
> > A government daily and approximately one dozen private weeklies,
> > which are
> > primarily controlled by opposition parties, are published. The
> > government
> > overwhelmingly dominates the broadcast media, which reach a far
> > larger
> > audience. Only a few private broadcasters have been licensed, and
> > their
> > viability is tenuous. A 1998 crackdown on private media has raised
> > serious
> > concerns for free expression. In February, Radio Soleil, which was
> > associated with the main Bucherons opposition party, was closed. In
> > January,
> > a cartoonist was sentenced to six months imprisonment for lampooning
> > Bongo.
> > Publication of his newspaper was suspended for one month. The
> > president of
> > the journalists' union was jailed for eight months. In August, the
> > opposition newspaper La Griffe was closed, and three of its staff
> > received
> > eight-month suspended sentences after publishing allegations of
> > ivory
> > smuggling by the national airline. Soldiers raided La Griffe offices
> > and
> > seized equipment. Foreign newspapers, magazines, and broadcasts are
> > usually
> > widely available, but editions criticizing Bongo have been seized.
> >
> > Most of the small formal sector work force is unionized, although
> > unions
> > must register with the government in order to be officially
> > recognized.
> > Despite legal protections, the government has taken action against
> > numerous
> > strikers and unions and used force to suppress illegal
> > demonstrations. While
> > no legal restrictions on travel exist, harassment on political and
> > ethnic
> > bases has been reported. Religious freedom is constitutionally
> > guaranteed
> > and respected. An official ban on Jehovah's Witnesses is not
> > enforced.
> >
> > Legal protections for women include equal access laws for education,
> >
> > business, and investment. In addition to owning property and
> > businesses,
> > women constitute more than 50 percent of the salaried workforce in
> > the
> > health and trade sectors. At the same time, there are only six women
> > in the
> > 120-member National Assembly and one woman in the cabinet. Women
> > continue to
> > face legal and cultural discrimination, particularly in rural areas,
> > and are
> > reportedly subject to widespread domestic violence.
> >
> > Little wealth from Gabon's oil revenues reaches the broad populace,
> > most of
> > which is engaged in subsistence farming. Corruption is endemic.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: dupont3@...
> > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > >Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:18:18 -0700
> > >
> > >Whoever would say that the Gabonese are worse off now than
> > independence
> > >must be brainwashed or does not know a damm thing about how it was
> > like
> > >to reorganize institutions after a being under a colonial power.
> > Also,
> > >what a disrespect to all the people who worked hard for an
> > independent
> > >and for 40 yrs. stable Gabon.
> > >To go on criticizing the government without coming up with any
> > >convincing alternative ideas other than conspiracy theories and
> > rumour is
> > >with all due respect, disingenuous and insensitive poppycock.
> > >
> > >Ciao,
> > >dupont
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:31:32 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
> > >writes:
> > > > Obvious point - Bongo has had almost 40 yrs to make a difference
> > and
> > > > the
> > > > Gabonese are worse off now than at independence - bad track
> > record.
> > > > If you
> > > > think elections were fair and square then you do not agree with
> > > > independent
> > > > election observers form around the world. In the end, it is not
> > what
> > > > I want
> > > > for Gabon - but what the GABONESE want for themselves - my
> > husband
> > > > included
> > > > who is from Gabon.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: dupont3@...
> > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > > >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:59:19 -0700
> > > > >
> > > > >Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have been
> > to
> > > > poorly
> > > > >supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you consider
> > to be
> > > > the
> > > > >obvious hypocrisy.
> > > > >But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many poor
> > people
> > > > is no
> > > > >different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor people
> > here
> > > > in the
> > > > >US do not have health insurance. While rich people spend money
> > > > lavishly
> > > > >in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless people
> > abound
> > > > on
> > > > >the streets and our political system although 2 party,
> > > > disenfranchises
> > > > >many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been there done
> > > > that" when
> > > > >you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking about a
> > > > nations
> > > > >development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist system
> > like
> > > > in
> > > > >Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
> > > > >I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it takes to
> > jump
> > > > start
> > > > >any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing wrong with
> > a
> > > > healthy
> > > > >dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that idealistic values
> > are
> > > > the
> > > > >foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is getting
> > people
> > > > to
> > > > >believe in the face of the harsh realities of capitalism.
> > > > >Now to say that a majority of people do not support President
> > Bongo
> > > > is
> > > > >not true. He has won elections fair and square, for all
> > that's
> > > > worth
> > > > >and beyond that is the most capable person for the job. The man
> > is
> > > > a
> > > > >national treasure! Why would you want him out?
> > > > >If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo then you
> > are
> > > > not
> > > > >being realistic about facing the challenges of such
> > underdeveloped
> > > > >nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the hard
> > issues
> > > > and
> > > > >instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good soap
> > opera.
> > > > >I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to world
> > poverty.
> > > > Step
> > > > >back and look at this picture and you will see that the
> > difference
> > > > points
> > > > >to the policies of the so-called first world nations and not
> > that
> > > > of a
> > > > >few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are still
> > poor
> > > > in
> > > > >comparison.
> > > > >
> > > > >Ciao,
> > > > >dupont
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi"
> > <c_yombi@...>
> > > > >writes:
> > > > > > With all due respect,
> > > > > > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the people's
> > > > level?
> > > > > > Have you
> > > > > > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only
> > > > his"friends"?
> > > > > > Have you
> > > > > > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of the
> > > > obvious
> > > > > > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the
> > national
> > > > > > train
> > > > > > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to
> > > > Franceville
> > > > > > for his
> > > > > > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation to
> > the
> > > > > > capital
> > > > > > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to
> > > > distribute
> > > > > > condoms
> > > > > > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft drinks
> > has a
> > > > > > problem and
> > > > > > it starts with the government.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, when a majority of the population does not support the
> > > > > > president and
> > > > > > had little or no voice to change this, is this a great
> > > > democracy?
> > > > > > Another
> > > > > > principle of the United State's founding fathers was freedom
> > of
> > > > > > choice. Have
> > > > > > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How can individuals work toward supporting their governments
> > > > and
> > > > > > country if
> > > > > > the government is taking food out of their mouths and
> > spending
> > > > it on
> > > > > > lavish
> > > > > > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics where
> > > > women
> > > > > > struggle
> > > > > > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary school
> > > > students
> > > > > > who have
> > > > > > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic
> > > > approach to
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > reality of one party governments in Africa would be a better
> > > > > > approach.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Carol
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: dupont3@...
> > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > > > > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating on
> > > > Bongo's
> > > > > > bank
> > > > > > >account will get you nowhere.
> > > > > > >Ever thought about working with the President to solve some
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > >nations problems?
> > > > > > >Here in America we have many of the same problems and this
> > is
> > > > the
> > > > > > >wealthiest country in the world!
> > > > > > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying schools
> > in
> > > > inner
> > > > > > cities
> > > > > > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing together.
> > We
> > > > are
> > > > > > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time when
> > our
> > > > > > schools
> > > > > > >need books.
> > > > > > >I would also like to ask how is it that having President
> > Bongo
> > > > step
> > > > > > down
> > > > > > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation for the
> > > > better?
> > > > > > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is
> > dependent
> > > > on
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > >French for many things. If the French were to leave would
> > it
> > > > make
> > > > > > >anything better? I think not, it would not make anything
> > > > better
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably destabilize
> > the
> > > > > > country and
> > > > > > >the region has the resulting power grab would be like going
> > > > back in
> > > > > > time.
> > > > > > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to think
> > > > more
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > >fighting for power than the issues important for developing
> > > > their
> > > > > > >country.
> > > > > > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a
> > solution.
> > > > In
> > > > > > Gabon
> > > > > > >each citizen must first make an effort to support the
> > state.
> > > > Only
> > > > > > then
> > > > > > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major
> > issues.The
> > > > > > founding
> > > > > > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand Divided
> > We
> > > > > > Fall"
> > > > > > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must first
> > find
> > > > a
> > > > > > common
> > > > > > >ground to stand on.
> > > > > > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and sure,
> > there
> > > > are
> > > > > > many
> > > > > > >who disagree with the President. But there are also many
> > who
> > > > do
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > >understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo.
> > Many
> > > > who do
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not
> > only
> > > > > > Africans,
> > > > > > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop
> > their
> > > > > > economies in
> > > > > > >this new world order.
> > > > > > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can help
> > the
> > > > > > President
> > > > > > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
> > > > > > >I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's
> > > > inauguration
> > > > > > speech
> > > > > > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for you,
> > but
> > > > what
> > > > > > you can
> > > > > > >do for your country."
> > > > > > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood
> > correctly,
> > > > can
> > > > > > >inspire man to great heights.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >ciao,
> > > > > > >dupont
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi"
> > > > <c_yombi@...>
> > > > > > >writes:
> > > > > > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a
> > "Bongo
> > > > > > house"
> > > > > > > > while my
> > > > > > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children to
> > > > school
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > riding on
> > > > > > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were going to
> > end
> > > > up
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > the water
> > > > > > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are just
> > > > that -
> > > > > > > > words. Don't
> > > > > > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French government
> > in
> > > > > > order to
> > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at
> > Bongo's
> > > > bank
> > > > > > > > accounts and
> > > > > > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in LBV.
> > If
> > > > Bongo
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > such a
> > > > > > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on his
> > > > promise
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > step down
> > > > > > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule forever?
> > Ask
> > > > many
> > > > > > > > Gabonese and
> > > > > > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@...>
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Hello:
> > > > > > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa depends
> > > > more
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course all
> > > > leaders
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does
> > that
> > > > > > "keep"
> > > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to say
> > > > about
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think
> > that it
> > > > is
> > > > > > > > >important to focus now on economic development and aid
> > for
> > > > > > African
> > > > > > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how the
> > > > marketing
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >resources coming out of most African states are not
> > > > controlled
> > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
> > > > > > > > >For example, it is important to develop the
> > infrastructure
> > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > oil
> > > > > > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil that is
> > > > > > produced.
> > > > > > > > Or
> > > > > > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of resources
> > > > like
> > > > > > > > timber,
> > > > > > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by
> > Africans
> > > > native
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >the region where they are produced. These things are
> > more
> > > > > > > > important
> > > > > > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in
> > > > political
> > > > > > > > control
> > > > > > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed away. I
> > > > think
> > > > > > > > arguably
> > > > > > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of state
> > > > deserves
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill
> > Gates
> > > > for
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in the
> > > > stock
> > > > > > > > market
> > > > > > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a resource
> > rich
> > > > > > African
> > > > > > > > >country!
> > > > > > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his country
> > than
> > > > Bush
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be leaps
> > and
> > > > > > bounds
> > > > > > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is why
> > I
> > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa at
> > this
> > > > > > time.
> > > > > > > > >We have seen in America how term limits together with
> > the
> > > > > > > > influence
> > > > > > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded the
> > > > quality
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We are
> > > > seeing
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important when it
> > > > comes
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > >political leadership.
> > > > > > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of African
> > > > states
> > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful nation to
> > > > gain
> > > > > > > > economic
> > > > > > > > >or political control?
> > > > > > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his agenda
> > > > reaches
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly care
> > about
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe after the
> > > > debaucle
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here in
> > the
> > > > > > states
> > > > > > > > >will put more effort into understanding what economic
> > > > > > development
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > >Africa means to world stability.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Ciao,
> > > > > > > > >dupont
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne"
> > > > <bobutne@...>
> > > > > > > > writes:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably,
> > > > abdicate)
> > > > > > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French
> > (5,000
> > > > > > troops
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison surrounding/protecting
> > the
> > > > > > > > Presidential
> > > > > > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is kept in
> > > > power.
> > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > 500
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and
> > Britain
> > > > > > world
> > > > > > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President Omar
> > > > Bongo
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > doing
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the US
> > and
> > > > > > world.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the West
> > and
> > > > is
> > > > > > being
> > > > > > > > left
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to gain
> > > > economic
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > political control. I could expound on this for many,
> > > > many
> > > > > > pages
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > here but will desist for now.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
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Ok, so you can now attack me, but it seems like you do not even think
about addressing the real issues at hand, other than to say that, "the
reality of life is not ideal." I am not attacking you personally but
exposing what I perceive to be your lack of knowledge about what is
really going on and throwing that back in your face everytime you spread
naive innuendo about Bongo as if getting rid of him will change the lives
of Gabonese for the better.
If you get off of your Bongo inquisition then maybe you will see the
light and actually make some attempts to address the real challenges that
the Gabonese people face.
Now on to your response which was equally naive:
1. Iraq before the UN sanctions had no problem with lack of access to
healthcare or malnutrition of its people. Iraqis are a very intelligent
people
with some of the most capable medical professionals in the region. As an
oil rich trading nation they had no problem importing enough food for
their needs. That is until the UN choose to destroy their livelyhood for
the sake of what?
2. Yes, Bill Gates made his money in the private sector, but he has also
paid off many a politician to the point where he was able to elude
federal anti-trust prosecution. Microsoft is still under prosecution by
the European Union and they have already stated that he will not get away
with them. Any Billions that he may have donated to charitable causes is
most surely covered by tax breaks and in no way cover up for the aspiring
companies and promising technologies that he has squashed on the way to
world domination.
3.The Queen of England has no political power in England? Political power
lies in the support of the people and the Queen and the Monarchy enjoys
overwhelming support among the populace of the United Kingdom.The Queen
wields enormous power behind the scenes should she desire to use it.
Sure I am assuming that my point is the best because I strongly believe
in what I am talking about. I strongly believe that President Bongo is a
great leader who succumbs to probably what every great leader in the
history of the world has succumbed to.The amassing of power and wealth.
I will take a great and capable leader who is amassing power and wealth
anytime over an intellectual lightweight playing with war toys like Bush
or a business tyrant like Bill Gates. I also respect you differences of
opinion and whatever cultural bias play a part in that. But lets get real
about the people causing the most damage to the the fabric of democracy
in this world and lets not turn our backs when "the chickens come home to
roost."
Ciao,
dupont
On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:18:00 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
writes:
> The point is that you assume you know what everybody else is doing
> and
> thinking. Before getting on your soap box, may be you should find
> out about
> the people you are accusing of collusion. You don't know me or have
> any
> information about my personal beliefs. You have no idea how I voted
> in the
> last elections or even if I am a registered voter. You know nothing
> about my
> background or my lifestyle.
>
> You bash the UN but seem to glaze over reality of life in Gabon for
> the
> majority of the population. How many children die each day in Iraq
> because
> of malnutrition and lack of access to healthcare? How many NGOs deal
> with
> the everyday care of the world's population? The reality of life is
> not the
> ideal. Often, we must choose between the lesser of two evils.
>
> No one has disputed your points about the Bush administration. You
> bring up
> billionaires like Bill Gates. He has made his money in the private
> sector,
> and he has given BILLIONS away to help with research and development
> of
> needed vaccines and HIV medications in Africa and elsewhere. The
> Queen of
> England has no political power in Great Britain and the people
> choose to
> support the royal family monetarily. Bongo on the other hand is
> directly
> responsible, just like Bush, for the policies and corruption in his
> country.
>
> You assume your point is the best and leave no room for the off
> chance that
> you could be wrong. In the end everyone is entitled to their own
> opinions,
> but this should be a discussion forum and not a crusade to convert
> those to
> your view of the world. There is no single correct point of view on
> any
> issue. Our own cultural biases and upbringings play a part in our
> understanding and interactions with those that are different than
> us. This
> is very apparent with you.
>
> (And by the way, I used to live down the road from the crook's house
> - I
> know how he lives the one day a year he chooses to reside there.)
>
>
> >From: dupont3@...
> >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:51:03 -0700
> >
> >Why are you so focused on this? Like I said before, we have the
> similar
> >stuff going on here in the US. Maybe you forgot how Bush became
> >President. Yet, maybe you even voted for Bush or support him still.
> In
> >Bongo's case it is good for Africa that he is still in power.
> Meanwhile
> >the Bush administration has been a disaster for the democratic
> process.
> >You seem to make a lot of fuss about Bongo's accounts but I will
> wager
> >that you do not blink an eye at the accounts of the many
> billionares in
> >America who are involved in shady business deals or the politicians
> who
> >are on the payroll of them. What hypocrisy! to point a finger at
> Bongo
> >and then indirectly benefit from all the shady crap going on in the
> US.
> >Speaking of the UN, we all know how much they are in the pocket of
> the US
> >and the trouble that is causing them around the world. The last
> time
> >that I checked, the US owed them billions of dollars in back dues.
> Also,
> >how many young kids were killed in Iraq because of UN sanctions?
> Did you
> >make any noise about that? Bongo needs as much money as he can get
> to
> >just put a word in for Gabon at the table of the corrupt Western
> leaders.
> >You seem brainwashed because you blindly follow those big crooks
> who have
> >you chasing down the wrong road, when you should be driving down
> the road
> >that leads to their house.
> >
> >
> >Ciao,
> >dupont
> >
> >
> >On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 01:57:20 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@...>
> >writes:
> > > May be it's just you who is brainwashed... Or may be people like
> the
> > > UN are
> > > just making it all up.....
> > >
> > >
> > > Vol 43 Number 25 - 20 December 2002
> > >
> > > Hear those drums
> > >
> > > For want of opposition, President Bongo can plan to rule until
> 2012
> > > After three decades at the head of one of Africa's worst managed
> and
> > > most
> > > corrupt oil economies, President Omar Bongo might well expect
> some
> > > political
> > > trouble. Quite the opposite. His ruling Parti Démocratique
> Gabonais
> > > (PDG)
> > > will sweep the board in the local elections on 29 December and
> Bongo
> > > (health
> > > permitting) could win yet another seven-year presidential term
> in
> > > the
> > > election due in 2005. The oppositionists of the early 1990s have
> > > been
> > > exiled, crushed or coopted.
> > >
> > > Gabonese have lost interest in the perennially rigged elections.
> > > Turnout at
> > > the legislative polls last December was under 20 per cent and
> may be
> > > lower
> > > still in the local polls. Electoral registers have been doctored
> > > down to
> > > 523,000: there were 775,000 names on the lists for the 2001
> > > elections. Many
> > > nominal political opponents are in Bongo's pay, the rest are
> divided
> > > and
> > > lack national support. For wealthy Gabonese, elections are a
> > > patronage
> > > competition which shares out jobs and resources from 250,000
> barrels
> > > of oil
> > > a day, plus smaller timber and manganese exports.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> >-------
> > >
> > > Vol 42 Number 16 - 10 August 2001
> > >
> > > Hey big spender
> > >
> > > The fuss over how President El Hadj Omar Bongo came to deposit
> over
> > > US$180
> > > million in three private Citibank accounts in New York won't go
> > > away. First
> > > raised in United States Senate hearings in November 1999, it is
> now
> > > the
> > > subject of an embarrassing law suit against Bongo in the US
> Federal
> > > Court,
> > > Washington. Bongo's lawyers are trying to establish diplomatic
> > > immunity for
> > > him as a serving head of a state recognised by the US
> government.
> > > And with
> > > another US legal suit from a scrap metal company pending,
> Bongo's
> > > big-spending habits Stateside he bought four Boeing passenger
> jets
> > > in June
> > > won't win him any respite from his legal adversaries there.
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> >-------
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> >-------
> > >
> > > Vol 40 Number 22 - 05 November 1999
> > >
> > > Digging deeper holes
> > >
> > > A massive hole in Gabon's public finances - some say of more
> than
> > > US$350
> > > million - is at the heart of its growing financial and political
> > > crisis. By
> > > the end of last year, arrears to foreign creditors were
> estimated at
> > > 160
> > > billion CFA francs ($256.4 mn.) - and have probably doubled this
> > > year.
> > > President Omar Bongo's government also has arrears of CFA 100
> bn. to
> > > local
> > > banks. With an oil-fired GNP per head of $4,000, Gabon is one of
> > > Africa's
> > > wealthiest states. Yet most people live in poverty and a damning
> new
> > > report
> > > from the United Nations Development Programme says social
> services
> > > are
> > > collapsing. Tracing the missing $350 mn. preoccupies both
> foreign
> > > creditors
> > > and Gabonese who worry about government corruption and
> > > mismanagement. And
> > > President Bongo is no longer able to rely on Paris nor
> Washington to
> > > block
> > > exposure of murky areas in his government. He tried everything,
> > > including a
> > > personal call to French President Jacques Chirac, to stifle the
> > > inquiry by
> > > magistrate Eva Joly into Elf-Aquitaine's unorthodox financing
> > > operations.
> > >
> > > This focussed on Bongo's relationship with André Tarallo,
> > > Elf-Gabon's
> > > disgraced and ousted Président-Directeur Général. Late last
> month,
> > > Joly's
> > > inquiries moved on when a Swiss magistrate, Paul Parraudin,
> produced
> > > bank
> > > records showing that over 600 mn. French francs ($97 mn.) had
> been
> > > channelled through Tarallo's Swiss account from the Gabonese
> > > presidency.
> > > Back home, after a year of strikes, demonstrations and the
> payments
> > > crisis,
> > > Bongo's government needs a new deal with the International
> Monetary
> > > Fund.
> > > Last year, the Fund suspended its Extended Financing Facility
> for
> > > several
> > > reasons, including 'lack of transparency in public finance'
> > > (Fundspeak for
> > > corruption). Libreville's negotiating team is led by respected
> > > Finance
> > > Minister Emile Doumba, who has been trying, with limited
> success, to
> > >
> > > persuade his ministerial colleagues and the presidency to
> implement
> > > an
> > > IMF-inspired austerity programme.
> > >
> > >
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------F
r
> >eedom
> > >
> > > in the World 1998-99: Gabon
> > > Freedom House Survey 1999
> > > Economy: Capitalist (highly corrupt)
> > > Population: 1,200,000
> > > PPP: $3,766
> > > Life Expectancy: 54
> > > Ethnic Groups: Fang, Eshira, Bapounou, Bateke, other Bantu,
> other
> > > Africans,
> > > Europeans
> > > Polity: Dominant party
> > > Capital: Libreville
> > > Political Rights: 5
> > > Civil Liberties: 4
> > > Status: Partly Free
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Overview
> > > In December, President Omar Bongo was returned to office for a
> > > seven-year
> > > term. The polling, which was partially boycotted by the
> opposition,
> > > was
> > > marked by serious irregularities. The nominally independent
> National
> > >
> > > Election Commission, which was created under the new
> constitution
> > > approved
> > > by referendum in 1995, proved neither autonomous nor competent.
> > > Behind a
> > > facade of democratic institutions, Bongo used patronage,
> > > manipulation, and
> > > intimidation to retain power. In Libreville in May, student
> riots
> > > prompted
> > > by deteriorating economic conditions were quickly suppressed. At
> > > least ten
> > > students were seriously hurt. Three decades of autocratic rule
> have
> > > made
> > > Bongo among the world's richest men and left the vast majority
> of
> > > oil-rich
> > > Gabon's 1.4 million people mired in poverty. Bongo is strongly
> > > backed by the
> > > army and by France. The highly profitable French ELF oil company
> > > plays a
> > > dominant role in the country's economic and political life.
> > >
> > > Straddling the equator on central Africa's west coast, Gabon
> gained
> > > independence from France in 1960. Bongo, whom France raised from
> > > soldier to
> > > president in 1967, completed his predecessor's consolidation of
> > > power by
> > > officially outlawing the opposition. France, which maintains 600
> > > marines in
> > > Gabon, has intervened twice to preserve Bongo's regime. In 1990,
> > > protests
> > > prompted by economic duress forced Bongo to accept a conference
> that
> > >
> > > opposition leaders hoped would promote a peaceful democratic
> > > transition.
> > > Bongo retained power, however, in rigged 1993 elections that
> sparked
> > > violent
> > > protests and repression led by his Presidential Guard. The 1994
> > > Paris
> > > Accords claimed to institute true democratic reforms. Municipal
> > > elections in
> > > 1996 saw major opposition gains, including the election of Paul
> Mba
> > > Abbesole, the leader of the largest opposition party, as mayor
> of
> > > Libreville. Legislative polls delayed by decree until December
> 1996
> > > were
> > > again beset by fraud as Bongo's Gabon Democratic Party won an
> > > overwhelming,
> > > but unconvincing victory.
> > >
> > > Political Rights and Civil Liberties
> > > Despite a gradual political opening since 1990, Gabon's citizens
> > > have never
> > > been able to exercise their constitutional right to change their
> > > government
> > > democratically. Bongo's 1998 electoral victory with 61 percent
> of
> > > the vote
> > > followed a campaign that made profligate use of state resources
> and
> > > state
> > > media to promote his incumbency. Legislative elections have also
> > > been
> > > seriously flawed.
> > >
> > > State institutions are influenced or controlled by Bongo and a
> small
> > > elite
> > > around him. The judiciary suffers from political interference.
> > > Rights to
> > > legal counsel and public criminal trials are generally
> respected,
> > > but the
> > > law presumes guilt. Judges may deliver summary verdicts, and
> torture
> > > remains
> > > a standard route to produce confessions. Prison conditions are
> > > marked by
> > > beatings and insufficient food, water, and medical care. The
> > > government
> > > often detains refugees without charge, and there are reports of
> > > forced labor
> > > by detainees. Rights of assembly and association are
> > > constitutionally
> > > guaranteed, but permits required for public gatherings are
> sometimes
> > >
> > > refused. Freedom to form and join political parties is generally
> > > respected,
> > > but civil servants may face harassment based on their
> associations.
> > > Nongovernmental organizations operate openly, although the
> Gabonese
> > > League
> > > of Human Rights has reported threats and harassment.
> > >
> > > A government daily and approximately one dozen private weeklies,
> > > which are
> > > primarily controlled by opposition parties, are published. The
> > > government
> > > overwhelmingly dominates the broadcast media, which reach a far
> > > larger
> > > audience. Only a few private broadcasters have been licensed,
> and
> > > their
> > > viability is tenuous. A 1998 crackdown on private media has
> raised
> > > serious
> > > concerns for free expression. In February, Radio Soleil, which
> was
> > > associated with the main Bucherons opposition party, was closed.
> In
> > > January,
> > > a cartoonist was sentenced to six months imprisonment for
> lampooning
> > > Bongo.
> > > Publication of his newspaper was suspended for one month. The
> > > president of
> > > the journalists' union was jailed for eight months. In August,
> the
> > > opposition newspaper La Griffe was closed, and three of its
> staff
> > > received
> > > eight-month suspended sentences after publishing allegations of
> > > ivory
> > > smuggling by the national airline. Soldiers raided La Griffe
> offices
> > > and
> > > seized equipment. Foreign newspapers, magazines, and broadcasts
> are
> > > usually
> > > widely available, but editions criticizing Bongo have been
> seized.
> > >
> > > Most of the small formal sector work force is unionized,
> although
> > > unions
> > > must register with the government in order to be officially
> > > recognized.
> > > Despite legal protections, the government has taken action
> against
> > > numerous
> > > strikers and unions and used force to suppress illegal
> > > demonstrations. While
> > > no legal restrictions on travel exist, harassment on political
> and
> > > ethnic
> > > bases has been reported. Religious freedom is constitutionally
> > > guaranteed
> > > and respected. An official ban on Jehovah's Witnesses is not
> > > enforced.
> > >
> > > Legal protections for women include equal access laws for
> education,
> > >
> > > business, and investment. In addition to owning property and
> > > businesses,
> > > women constitute more than 50 percent of the salaried workforce
> in
> > > the
> > > health and trade sectors. At the same time, there are only six
> women
> > > in the
> > > 120-member National Assembly and one woman in the cabinet. Women
> > > continue to
> > > face legal and cultural discrimination, particularly in rural
> areas,
> > > and are
> > > reportedly subject to widespread domestic violence.
> > >
> > > Little wealth from Gabon's oil revenues reaches the broad
> populace,
> > > most of
> > > which is engaged in subsistence farming. Corruption is endemic.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: dupont3@...
> > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > >Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:18:18 -0700
> > > >
> > > >Whoever would say that the Gabonese are worse off now than
> > > independence
> > > >must be brainwashed or does not know a damm thing about how it
> was
> > > like
> > > >to reorganize institutions after a being under a colonial
> power.
> > > Also,
> > > >what a disrespect to all the people who worked hard for an
> > > independent
> > > >and for 40 yrs. stable Gabon.
> > > >To go on criticizing the government without coming up with any
> > > >convincing alternative ideas other than conspiracy theories and
> > > rumour is
> > > >with all due respect, disingenuous and insensitive poppycock.
> > > >
> > > >Ciao,
> > > >dupont
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:31:32 +0000 "C Yombi"
> <c_yombi@...>
> > > >writes:
> > > > > Obvious point - Bongo has had almost 40 yrs to make a
> difference
> > > and
> > > > > the
> > > > > Gabonese are worse off now than at independence - bad track
> > > record.
> > > > > If you
> > > > > think elections were fair and square then you do not agree
> with
> > > > > independent
> > > > > election observers form around the world. In the end, it is >
not
> > > what
> > > > > I want
> > > > > for Gabon - but what the GABONESE want for themselves - my
> > > husband
> > > > > included
> > > > > who is from Gabon.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: dupont3@...
> > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > > > >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:59:19 -0700
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I have
> been
> > > to
> > > > > poorly
> > > > > >supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you
> consider
> > > to be
> > > > > the
> > > > > >obvious hypocrisy.
> > > > > >But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many poor
> > > people
> > > > > is no
> > > > > >different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor
> people
> > > here
> > > > > in the
> > > > > >US do not have health insurance. While rich people spend
> money
> > > > > lavishly
> > > > > >in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless
> people
> > > abound
> > > > > on
> > > > > >the streets and our political system although 2 party,
> > > > > disenfranchises
> > > > > >many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been there
> done
> > > > > that" when
> > > > > >you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking about a
> > > > > nations
> > > > > >development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist
> system
> > > like
> > > > > in
> > > > > >Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
> > > > > >I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it takes to
> > > jump
> > > > > start
> > > > > >any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing wrong
> with
> > > a
> > > > > healthy
> > > > > >dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that idealistic
> values
> > > are
> > > > > the
> > > > > >foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is
> getting
> > > people
> > > > > to
> > > > > >believe in the face of the harsh realities of capitalism.
> > > > > >Now to say that a majority of people do not support
> President
> > > Bongo
> > > > > is
> > > > > >not true. He has won elections fair and square, for all
> > > that's
> > > > > worth
> > > > > >and beyond that is the most capable person for the job. The
> man
> > > is
> > > > > a
> > > > > >national treasure! Why would you want him out?
> > > > > >If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo then
> you
> > > are
> > > > > not
> > > > > >being realistic about facing the challenges of such
> > > underdeveloped
> > > > > >nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the hard
> > > issues
> > > > > and
> > > > > >instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good soap
> > > opera.
> > > > > >I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to world
> > > poverty.
> > > > > Step
> > > > > >back and look at this picture and you will see that the
> > > difference
> > > > > points
> > > > > >to the policies of the so-called first world nations and
> not
> > > that
> > > > > of a
> > > > > >few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are
> still
> > > poor
> > > > > in
> > > > > >comparison.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Ciao,
> > > > > >dupont
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi"
> > > <c_yombi@...>
> > > > > >writes:
> > > > > > > With all due respect,
> > > > > > > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the
> people's
> > > > > level?
> > > > > > > Have you
> > > > > > > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only
> > > > > his"friends"?
> > > > > > > Have you
> > > > > > > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all of
> the
> > > > > obvious
> > > > > > > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired the
> > > national
> > > > > > > train
> > > > > > > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars to
> > > > > Franceville
> > > > > > > for his
> > > > > > > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a vacation
> to
> > > the
> > > > > > > capital
> > > > > > > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps to
> > > > > distribute
> > > > > > > condoms
> > > > > > > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft
> drinks
> > > has a
> > > > > > > problem and
> > > > > > > it starts with the government.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also, when a majority of the population does not support
> the
> > > > > > > president and
> > > > > > > had little or no voice to change this, is this a great
> > > > > democracy?
> > > > > > > Another
> > > > > > > principle of the United State's founding fathers was
> freedom
> > > of
> > > > > > > choice. Have
> > > > > > > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How can individuals work toward supporting their
> governments
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > country if
> > > > > > > the government is taking food out of their mouths and
> > > spending
> > > > > it on
> > > > > > > lavish
> > > > > > > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health clinics
> where
> > > > > women
> > > > > > > struggle
> > > > > > > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary
> school
> > > > > students
> > > > > > > who have
> > > > > > > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more realistic
> > > > > approach to
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > reality of one party governments in Africa would be a
> better
> > > > > > > approach.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Carol
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >From: dupont3@...
> > > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on
> Terrorism"
> > > > > > > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Well , with all due respect, I think that concentrating
> on
> > > > > Bongo's
> > > > > > > bank
> > > > > > > >account will get you nowhere.
> > > > > > > >Ever thought about working with the President to solve
> some
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > >nations problems?
> > > > > > > >Here in America we have many of the same problems and
> this
> > > is
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > >wealthiest country in the world!
> > > > > > > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying
> schools
> > > in
> > > > > inner
> > > > > > > cities
> > > > > > > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing
> together.
> > > We
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a time
> when
> > > our
> > > > > > > schools
> > > > > > > >need books.
> > > > > > > >I would also like to ask how is it that having
> President
> > > Bongo
> > > > > step
> > > > > > > down
> > > > > > > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation for
> the
> > > > > better?
> > > > > > > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country is
> > > dependent
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >French for many things. If the French were to leave
> would
> > > it
> > > > > make
> > > > > > > >anything better? I think not, it would not make
> anything
> > > > > better
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably
> destabilize
> > > the
> > > > > > > country and
> > > > > > > >the region has the resulting power grab would be like
> going
> > > > > back in
> > > > > > > time.
> > > > > > > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem to
> think
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > >fighting for power than the issues important for
> developing
> > > > > their
> > > > > > > >country.
> > > > > > > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a
> > > solution.
> > > > > In
> > > > > > > Gabon
> > > > > > > >each citizen must first make an effort to support the
> > > state.
> > > > > Only
> > > > > > > then
> > > > > > > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major
> > > issues.The
> > > > > > > founding
> > > > > > > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand
> Divided
> > > We
> > > > > > > Fall"
> > > > > > > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must
> first
> > > find
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > common
> > > > > > > >ground to stand on.
> > > > > > > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and
> sure,
> > > there
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > many
> > > > > > > >who disagree with the President. But there are also
> many
> > > who
> > > > > do
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > >understand what a great leader that they have in Bongo.
> > > Many
> > > > > who do
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that not
> > > only
> > > > > > > Africans,
> > > > > > > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to develop
> > > their
> > > > > > > economies in
> > > > > > > >this new world order.
> > > > > > > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that can
> help
> > > the
> > > > > > > President
> > > > > > > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
> > > > > > > >I love the famous quote in President John F Kennedy's
> > > > > inauguration
> > > > > > > speech
> > > > > > > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for
> you,
> > > but
> > > > > what
> > > > > > > you can
> > > > > > > >do for your country."
> > > > > > > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood
> > > correctly,
> > > > > can
> > > > > > > >inspire man to great heights.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >ciao,
> > > > > > > >dupont
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi"
> > > > > <c_yombi@...>
> > > > > > > >writes:
> > > > > > > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi - with a
> > > "Bongo
> > > > > > > house"
> > > > > > > > > while my
> > > > > > > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their children
> to
> > > > > school
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > riding on
> > > > > > > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were
> going to
> > > end
> > > > > up
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > the water
> > > > > > > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words are
> just
> > > > > that -
> > > > > > > > > words. Don't
> > > > > > > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French
> government
> > > in
> > > > > > > order to
> > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look at
> > > Bongo's
> > > > > bank
> > > > > > > > > accounts and
> > > > > > > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University in
> LBV.
> > > If
> > > > > Bongo
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > such a
> > > > > > > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig on
> his
> > > > > promise
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > step down
> > > > > > > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule
> forever?
> > > Ask
> > > > > many
> > > > > > > > > Gabonese and
> > > > > > > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@...>
> > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on
> Terrorism"
> > > > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Hello:
> > > > > > > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa
> depends
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of course
> all
> > > > > leaders
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but does
> > > that
> > > > > > > "keep"
> > > > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo has to
> say
> > > > > about
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I think
> > > that it
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > >important to focus now on economic development and
> aid
> > > for
> > > > > > > African
> > > > > > > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about how
> the
> > > > > marketing
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > >resources coming out of most African states are not
> > > > > controlled
> > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
> > > > > > > > > >For example, it is important to develop the
> > > infrastructure
> > > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > > oil
> > > > > > > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil that
> is
> > > > > > > produced.
> > > > > > > > > Or
> > > > > > > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of
> resources
> > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > timber,
> > > > > > > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by
> > > Africans
> > > > > native
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > >the region where they are produced. These things
> are
> > > more
> > > > > > > > > important
> > > > > > > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is in
> > > > > political
> > > > > > > > > control
> > > > > > > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed away.
> I
> > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > arguably
> > > > > > > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of
> state
> > > > > deserves
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or Bill
> > > Gates
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals speculating in
> the
> > > > > stock
> > > > > > > > > market
> > > > > > > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a
> resource
> > > rich
> > > > > > > African
> > > > > > > > > >country!
> > > > > > > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his
> country
> > > than
> > > > > Bush
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be
> leaps
> > > and
> > > > > > > bounds
> > > > > > > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance. That is
> why
> > > I
> > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for Africa
> at
> > > this
> > > > > > > time.
> > > > > > > > > >We have seen in America how term limits together
> with
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > influence
> > > > > > > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has eroded
> the
> > > > > quality
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power. We
> are
> > > > > seeing
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important
> when it
> > > > > comes
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > >political leadership.
> > > > > > > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of
> African
> > > > > states
> > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful
> nation to
> > > > > gain
> > > > > > > > > economic
> > > > > > > > > >or political control?
> > > > > > > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his
> agenda
> > > > > reaches
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly
> care
> > > about
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe after
> the
> > > > > debaucle
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders) here
> in
> > > the
> > > > > > > states
> > > > > > > > > >will put more effort into understanding what
> economic
> > > > > > > development
> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > >Africa means to world stability.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >Ciao,
> > > > > > > > > >dupont
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne"
> > > > > <bobutne@...>
> > > > > > > > > writes:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and, probably,
> > > > > abdicate)
> > > > > > > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the French
> > > (5,000
> > > > > > > troops
> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison
> surrounding/protecting
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > Presidential
> > > > > > > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is
> kept in
> > > > > power.
> > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > 500
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US and
> > > Britain
> > > > > > > world
> > > > > > > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions. President
> Omar
> > > > > Bongo
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > doing
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for the
> US
> > > and
> > > > > > > world.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the
> West
> > > and
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > being
> > > > > > > > > left
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in to
> gain
> > > > > economic
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > political control. I could expound on this for
> many,
> > > > > many
> > > > > > > pages
> > > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > > here but will desist for now.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
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"I strongly believe that President Bongo is a great leader.."
Please explain why you strongly believe President Omar Bongo is a
great leader.
--- In gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com, dupont3@j... wrote:
> Ok, so you can now attack me, but it seems like you do not even
think
> about addressing the real issues at hand, other than to say
that, "the
> reality of life is not ideal." I am not attacking you personally
but
> exposing what I perceive to be your lack of knowledge about what is
> really going on and throwing that back in your face everytime you
spread
> naive innuendo about Bongo as if getting rid of him will change
the lives
> of Gabonese for the better.
> If you get off of your Bongo inquisition then maybe you will see
the
> light and actually make some attempts to address the real
challenges that
> the Gabonese people face.
> Now on to your response which was equally naive:
> 1. Iraq before the UN sanctions had no problem with lack of access
to
> healthcare or malnutrition of its people. Iraqis are a very
intelligent
> people
> with some of the most capable medical professionals in the region.
As an
> oil rich trading nation they had no problem importing enough food
for
> their needs. That is until the UN choose to destroy their
livelyhood for
> the sake of what?
> 2. Yes, Bill Gates made his money in the private sector, but he
has also
> paid off many a politician to the point where he was able to elude
> federal anti-trust prosecution. Microsoft is still under
prosecution by
> the European Union and they have already stated that he will not
get away
> with them. Any Billions that he may have donated to charitable
causes is
> most surely covered by tax breaks and in no way cover up for the
aspiring
> companies and promising technologies that he has squashed on the
way to
> world domination.
> 3.The Queen of England has no political power in England?
Political power
> lies in the support of the people and the Queen and the Monarchy
enjoys
> overwhelming support among the populace of the United Kingdom.The
Queen
> wields enormous power behind the scenes should she desire to use
it.
>
> Sure I am assuming that my point is the best because I strongly
believe
> in what I am talking about. I strongly believe that President
Bongo is a
> great leader who succumbs to probably what every great leader in
the
> history of the world has succumbed to.The amassing of power and
wealth.
> I will take a great and capable leader who is amassing power and
wealth
> anytime over an intellectual lightweight playing with war toys
like Bush
> or a business tyrant like Bill Gates. I also respect you
differences of
> opinion and whatever cultural bias play a part in that. But lets
get real
> about the people causing the most damage to the the fabric of
democracy
> in this world and lets not turn our backs when "the chickens come
home to
> roost."
>
> Ciao,
> dupont
>
>
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:18:00 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@h...>
> writes:
> > The point is that you assume you know what everybody else is
doing
> > and
> > thinking. Before getting on your soap box, may be you should
find
> > out about
> > the people you are accusing of collusion. You don't know me or
have
> > any
> > information about my personal beliefs. You have no idea how I
voted
> > in the
> > last elections or even if I am a registered voter. You know
nothing
> > about my
> > background or my lifestyle.
> >
> > You bash the UN but seem to glaze over reality of life in Gabon
for
> > the
> > majority of the population. How many children die each day in
Iraq
> > because
> > of malnutrition and lack of access to healthcare? How many NGOs
deal
> > with
> > the everyday care of the world's population? The reality of life
is
> > not the
> > ideal. Often, we must choose between the lesser of two evils.
> >
> > No one has disputed your points about the Bush administration.
You
> > bring up
> > billionaires like Bill Gates. He has made his money in the
private
> > sector,
> > and he has given BILLIONS away to help with research and
development
> > of
> > needed vaccines and HIV medications in Africa and elsewhere. The
> > Queen of
> > England has no political power in Great Britain and the people
> > choose to
> > support the royal family monetarily. Bongo on the other hand is
> > directly
> > responsible, just like Bush, for the policies and corruption in
his
> > country.
> >
> > You assume your point is the best and leave no room for the off
> > chance that
> > you could be wrong. In the end everyone is entitled to their own
> > opinions,
> > but this should be a discussion forum and not a crusade to
convert
> > those to
> > your view of the world. There is no single correct point of view
on
> > any
> > issue. Our own cultural biases and upbringings play a part in
our
> > understanding and interactions with those that are different
than
> > us. This
> > is very apparent with you.
> >
> > (And by the way, I used to live down the road from the crook's
house
> > - I
> > know how he lives the one day a year he chooses to reside there.)
> >
> >
> > >From: dupont3@j...
> > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > >Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 15:51:03 -0700
> > >
> > >Why are you so focused on this? Like I said before, we have the
> > similar
> > >stuff going on here in the US. Maybe you forgot how Bush became
> > >President. Yet, maybe you even voted for Bush or support him
still.
> > In
> > >Bongo's case it is good for Africa that he is still in power.
> > Meanwhile
> > >the Bush administration has been a disaster for the democratic
> > process.
> > >You seem to make a lot of fuss about Bongo's accounts but I
will
> > wager
> > >that you do not blink an eye at the accounts of the many
> > billionares in
> > >America who are involved in shady business deals or the
politicians
> > who
> > >are on the payroll of them. What hypocrisy! to point a finger
at
> > Bongo
> > >and then indirectly benefit from all the shady crap going on in
the
> > US.
> > >Speaking of the UN, we all know how much they are in the pocket
of
> > the US
> > >and the trouble that is causing them around the world. The
last
> > time
> > >that I checked, the US owed them billions of dollars in back
dues.
> > Also,
> > >how many young kids were killed in Iraq because of UN
sanctions?
> > Did you
> > >make any noise about that? Bongo needs as much money as he can
get
> > to
> > >just put a word in for Gabon at the table of the corrupt
Western
> > leaders.
> > >You seem brainwashed because you blindly follow those big
crooks
> > who have
> > >you chasing down the wrong road, when you should be driving
down
> > the road
> > >that leads to their house.
> > >
> > >
> > >Ciao,
> > >dupont
> > >
> > >
> > >On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 01:57:20 +0000 "C Yombi" <c_yombi@h...>
> > >writes:
> > > > May be it's just you who is brainwashed... Or may be people
like
> > the
> > > > UN are
> > > > just making it all up.....
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Vol 43 Number 25 - 20 December 2002
> > > >
> > > > Hear those drums
> > > >
> > > > For want of opposition, President Bongo can plan to rule
until
> > 2012
> > > > After three decades at the head of one of Africa's worst
managed
> > and
> > > > most
> > > > corrupt oil economies, President Omar Bongo might well
expect
> > some
> > > > political
> > > > trouble. Quite the opposite. His ruling Parti Démocratique
> > Gabonais
> > > > (PDG)
> > > > will sweep the board in the local elections on 29 December
and
> > Bongo
> > > > (health
> > > > permitting) could win yet another seven-year presidential
term
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > election due in 2005. The oppositionists of the early 1990s
have
> > > > been
> > > > exiled, crushed or coopted.
> > > >
> > > > Gabonese have lost interest in the perennially rigged
elections.
> > > > Turnout at
> > > > the legislative polls last December was under 20 per cent
and
> > may be
> > > > lower
> > > > still in the local polls. Electoral registers have been
doctored
> > > > down to
> > > > 523,000: there were 775,000 names on the lists for the 2001
> > > > elections. Many
> > > > nominal political opponents are in Bongo's pay, the rest are
> > divided
> > > > and
> > > > lack national support. For wealthy Gabonese, elections are a
> > > > patronage
> > > > competition which shares out jobs and resources from 250,000
> > barrels
> > > > of oil
> > > > a day, plus smaller timber and manganese exports.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> -
> > >-------
> > > >
> > > > Vol 42 Number 16 - 10 August 2001
> > > >
> > > > Hey big spender
> > > >
> > > > The fuss over how President El Hadj Omar Bongo came to
deposit
> > over
> > > > US$180
> > > > million in three private Citibank accounts in New York won't
go
> > > > away. First
> > > > raised in United States Senate hearings in November 1999, it
is
> > now
> > > > the
> > > > subject of an embarrassing law suit against Bongo in the US
> > Federal
> > > > Court,
> > > > Washington. Bongo's lawyers are trying to establish
diplomatic
> > > > immunity for
> > > > him as a serving head of a state recognised by the US
> > government.
> > > > And with
> > > > another US legal suit from a scrap metal company pending,
> > Bongo's
> > > > big-spending habits Stateside he bought four Boeing
passenger
> > jets
> > > > in June
> > > > won't win him any respite from his legal adversaries there.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> -
> > >-------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> -
> > >-------
> > > >
> > > > Vol 40 Number 22 - 05 November 1999
> > > >
> > > > Digging deeper holes
> > > >
> > > > A massive hole in Gabon's public finances - some say of more
> > than
> > > > US$350
> > > > million - is at the heart of its growing financial and
political
> > > > crisis. By
> > > > the end of last year, arrears to foreign creditors were
> > estimated at
> > > > 160
> > > > billion CFA francs ($256.4 mn.) - and have probably doubled
this
> > > > year.
> > > > President Omar Bongo's government also has arrears of CFA
100
> > bn. to
> > > > local
> > > > banks. With an oil-fired GNP per head of $4,000, Gabon is
one of
> > > > Africa's
> > > > wealthiest states. Yet most people live in poverty and a
damning
> > new
> > > > report
> > > > from the United Nations Development Programme says social
> > services
> > > > are
> > > > collapsing. Tracing the missing $350 mn. preoccupies both
> > foreign
> > > > creditors
> > > > and Gabonese who worry about government corruption and
> > > > mismanagement. And
> > > > President Bongo is no longer able to rely on Paris nor
> > Washington to
> > > > block
> > > > exposure of murky areas in his government. He tried
everything,
> > > > including a
> > > > personal call to French President Jacques Chirac, to stifle
the
> > > > inquiry by
> > > > magistrate Eva Joly into Elf-Aquitaine's unorthodox financing
> > > > operations.
> > > >
> > > > This focussed on Bongo's relationship with André Tarallo,
> > > > Elf-Gabon's
> > > > disgraced and ousted Président-Directeur Général. Late last
> > month,
> > > > Joly's
> > > > inquiries moved on when a Swiss magistrate, Paul Parraudin,
> > produced
> > > > bank
> > > > records showing that over 600 mn. French francs ($97 mn.)
had
> > been
> > > > channelled through Tarallo's Swiss account from the Gabonese
> > > > presidency.
> > > > Back home, after a year of strikes, demonstrations and the
> > payments
> > > > crisis,
> > > > Bongo's government needs a new deal with the International
> > Monetary
> > > > Fund.
> > > > Last year, the Fund suspended its Extended Financing
Facility
> > for
> > > > several
> > > > reasons, including 'lack of transparency in public finance'
> > > > (Fundspeak for
> > > > corruption). Libreville's negotiating team is led by
respected
> > > > Finance
> > > > Minister Emile Doumba, who has been trying, with limited
> > success, to
> > > >
> > > > persuade his ministerial colleagues and the presidency to
> > implement
> > > > an
> > > > IMF-inspired austerity programme.
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------
------
> -
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------
-----F
> r
> > >eedom
> > > >
> > > > in the World 1998-99: Gabon
> > > > Freedom House Survey 1999
> > > > Economy: Capitalist (highly corrupt)
> > > > Population: 1,200,000
> > > > PPP: $3,766
> > > > Life Expectancy: 54
> > > > Ethnic Groups: Fang, Eshira, Bapounou, Bateke, other Bantu,
> > other
> > > > Africans,
> > > > Europeans
> > > > Polity: Dominant party
> > > > Capital: Libreville
> > > > Political Rights: 5
> > > > Civil Liberties: 4
> > > > Status: Partly Free
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Overview
> > > > In December, President Omar Bongo was returned to office for
a
> > > > seven-year
> > > > term. The polling, which was partially boycotted by the
> > opposition,
> > > > was
> > > > marked by serious irregularities. The nominally independent
> > National
> > > >
> > > > Election Commission, which was created under the new
> > constitution
> > > > approved
> > > > by referendum in 1995, proved neither autonomous nor
competent.
> > > > Behind a
> > > > facade of democratic institutions, Bongo used patronage,
> > > > manipulation, and
> > > > intimidation to retain power. In Libreville in May, student
> > riots
> > > > prompted
> > > > by deteriorating economic conditions were quickly
suppressed. At
> > > > least ten
> > > > students were seriously hurt. Three decades of autocratic
rule
> > have
> > > > made
> > > > Bongo among the world's richest men and left the vast
majority
> > of
> > > > oil-rich
> > > > Gabon's 1.4 million people mired in poverty. Bongo is
strongly
> > > > backed by the
> > > > army and by France. The highly profitable French ELF oil
company
> > > > plays a
> > > > dominant role in the country's economic and political life.
> > > >
> > > > Straddling the equator on central Africa's west coast, Gabon
> > gained
> > > > independence from France in 1960. Bongo, whom France raised
from
> > > > soldier to
> > > > president in 1967, completed his predecessor's consolidation
of
> > > > power by
> > > > officially outlawing the opposition. France, which maintains
600
> > > > marines in
> > > > Gabon, has intervened twice to preserve Bongo's regime. In
1990,
> > > > protests
> > > > prompted by economic duress forced Bongo to accept a
conference
> > that
> > > >
> > > > opposition leaders hoped would promote a peaceful democratic
> > > > transition.
> > > > Bongo retained power, however, in rigged 1993 elections that
> > sparked
> > > > violent
> > > > protests and repression led by his Presidential Guard. The
1994
> > > > Paris
> > > > Accords claimed to institute true democratic reforms.
Municipal
> > > > elections in
> > > > 1996 saw major opposition gains, including the election of
Paul
> > Mba
> > > > Abbesole, the leader of the largest opposition party, as
mayor
> > of
> > > > Libreville. Legislative polls delayed by decree until
December
> > 1996
> > > > were
> > > > again beset by fraud as Bongo's Gabon Democratic Party won an
> > > > overwhelming,
> > > > but unconvincing victory.
> > > >
> > > > Political Rights and Civil Liberties
> > > > Despite a gradual political opening since 1990, Gabon's
citizens
> > > > have never
> > > > been able to exercise their constitutional right to change
their
> > > > government
> > > > democratically. Bongo's 1998 electoral victory with 61
percent
> > of
> > > > the vote
> > > > followed a campaign that made profligate use of state
resources
> > and
> > > > state
> > > > media to promote his incumbency. Legislative elections have
also
> > > > been
> > > > seriously flawed.
> > > >
> > > > State institutions are influenced or controlled by Bongo and
a
> > small
> > > > elite
> > > > around him. The judiciary suffers from political
interference.
> > > > Rights to
> > > > legal counsel and public criminal trials are generally
> > respected,
> > > > but the
> > > > law presumes guilt. Judges may deliver summary verdicts, and
> > torture
> > > > remains
> > > > a standard route to produce confessions. Prison conditions
are
> > > > marked by
> > > > beatings and insufficient food, water, and medical care. The
> > > > government
> > > > often detains refugees without charge, and there are reports
of
> > > > forced labor
> > > > by detainees. Rights of assembly and association are
> > > > constitutionally
> > > > guaranteed, but permits required for public gatherings are
> > sometimes
> > > >
> > > > refused. Freedom to form and join political parties is
generally
> > > > respected,
> > > > but civil servants may face harassment based on their
> > associations.
> > > > Nongovernmental organizations operate openly, although the
> > Gabonese
> > > > League
> > > > of Human Rights has reported threats and harassment.
> > > >
> > > > A government daily and approximately one dozen private
weeklies,
> > > > which are
> > > > primarily controlled by opposition parties, are published.
The
> > > > government
> > > > overwhelmingly dominates the broadcast media, which reach a
far
> > > > larger
> > > > audience. Only a few private broadcasters have been
licensed,
> > and
> > > > their
> > > > viability is tenuous. A 1998 crackdown on private media has
> > raised
> > > > serious
> > > > concerns for free expression. In February, Radio Soleil,
which
> > was
> > > > associated with the main Bucherons opposition party, was
closed.
> > In
> > > > January,
> > > > a cartoonist was sentenced to six months imprisonment for
> > lampooning
> > > > Bongo.
> > > > Publication of his newspaper was suspended for one month. The
> > > > president of
> > > > the journalists' union was jailed for eight months. In
August,
> > the
> > > > opposition newspaper La Griffe was closed, and three of its
> > staff
> > > > received
> > > > eight-month suspended sentences after publishing allegations
of
> > > > ivory
> > > > smuggling by the national airline. Soldiers raided La Griffe
> > offices
> > > > and
> > > > seized equipment. Foreign newspapers, magazines, and
broadcasts
> > are
> > > > usually
> > > > widely available, but editions criticizing Bongo have been
> > seized.
> > > >
> > > > Most of the small formal sector work force is unionized,
> > although
> > > > unions
> > > > must register with the government in order to be officially
> > > > recognized.
> > > > Despite legal protections, the government has taken action
> > against
> > > > numerous
> > > > strikers and unions and used force to suppress illegal
> > > > demonstrations. While
> > > > no legal restrictions on travel exist, harassment on
political
> > and
> > > > ethnic
> > > > bases has been reported. Religious freedom is
constitutionally
> > > > guaranteed
> > > > and respected. An official ban on Jehovah's Witnesses is not
> > > > enforced.
> > > >
> > > > Legal protections for women include equal access laws for
> > education,
> > > >
> > > > business, and investment. In addition to owning property and
> > > > businesses,
> > > > women constitute more than 50 percent of the salaried
workforce
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > health and trade sectors. At the same time, there are only
six
> > women
> > > > in the
> > > > 120-member National Assembly and one woman in the cabinet.
Women
> > > > continue to
> > > > face legal and cultural discrimination, particularly in
rural
> > areas,
> > > > and are
> > > > reportedly subject to widespread domestic violence.
> > > >
> > > > Little wealth from Gabon's oil revenues reaches the broad
> > populace,
> > > > most of
> > > > which is engaged in subsistence farming. Corruption is
endemic.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >From: dupont3@j...
> > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > > >Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:18:18 -0700
> > > > >
> > > > >Whoever would say that the Gabonese are worse off now than
> > > > independence
> > > > >must be brainwashed or does not know a damm thing about how
it
> > was
> > > > like
> > > > >to reorganize institutions after a being under a colonial
> > power.
> > > > Also,
> > > > >what a disrespect to all the people who worked hard for an
> > > > independent
> > > > >and for 40 yrs. stable Gabon.
> > > > >To go on criticizing the government without coming up with
any
> > > > >convincing alternative ideas other than conspiracy theories
and
> > > > rumour is
> > > > >with all due respect, disingenuous and insensitive
poppycock.
> > > > >
> > > > >Ciao,
> > > > >dupont
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 20:31:32 +0000 "C Yombi"
> > <c_yombi@h...>
> > > > >writes:
> > > > > > Obvious point - Bongo has had almost 40 yrs to make a
> > difference
> > > > and
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > Gabonese are worse off now than at independence - bad
track
> > > > record.
> > > > > > If you
> > > > > > think elections were fair and square then you do not
agree
> > with
> > > > > > independent
> > > > > > election observers form around the world. In the end, it
is >
> not
> > > > what
> > > > > > I want
> > > > > > for Gabon - but what the GABONESE want for themselves -
my
> > > > husband
> > > > > > included
> > > > > > who is from Gabon.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >From: dupont3@j...
> > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on Terrorism"
> > > > > > >Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:59:19 -0700
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Yes, I have seen how the some Gabonese people live. I
have
> > been
> > > > to
> > > > > > poorly
> > > > > > >supplied hospitals and schools. I have seen what you
> > consider
> > > > to be
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > >obvious hypocrisy.
> > > > > > >But I know that here in America the lifestyle of many
poor
> > > > people
> > > > > > is no
> > > > > > >different. It is just on a different scale. Most poor
> > people
> > > > here
> > > > > > in the
> > > > > > >US do not have health insurance. While rich people
spend
> > money
> > > > > > lavishly
> > > > > > >in the midst of a lot of pain and suffering. Homeless
> > people
> > > > abound
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > >the streets and our political system although 2 party,
> > > > > > disenfranchises
> > > > > > >many potentially great opponents. It is like. "been
there
> > done
> > > > > > that" when
> > > > > > >you try to focus on that type of stuff when talking
about a
> > > > > > nations
> > > > > > >development in a capitalist system. Maybe a socialist
> > system
> > > > like
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > >Cuba would better achieve what you want in Gabon.
> > > > > > >I think that a healthy dose of idealism is what it
takes to
> > > > jump
> > > > > > start
> > > > > > >any successful capitalist economy. There is nothing
wrong
> > with
> > > > a
> > > > > > healthy
> > > > > > >dose of idealism, in fact, one can argue that
idealistic
> > values
> > > > are
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > >foundations of a healthy democracy. The hard part is
> > getting
> > > > people
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > >believe in the face of the harsh realities of
capitalism.
> > > > > > >Now to say that a majority of people do not support
> > President
> > > > Bongo
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > >not true. He has won elections fair and square, for
all
> > > > that's
> > > > > > worth
> > > > > > >and beyond that is the most capable person for the job.
The
> > man
> > > > is
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > >national treasure! Why would you want him out?
> > > > > > >If you can not work with leaders like President Bongo
then
> > you
> > > > are
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > >being realistic about facing the challenges of such
> > > > underdeveloped
> > > > > > >nations in Africa.You might be afraid to deal with the
hard
> > > > issues
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > >instead choose to focus on the stuff that makes good
soap
> > > > opera.
> > > > > > >I say lets look at the big picture when it comes to
world
> > > > poverty.
> > > > > > Step
> > > > > > >back and look at this picture and you will see that the
> > > > difference
> > > > > > points
> > > > > > >to the policies of the so-called first world nations
and
> > not
> > > > that
> > > > > > of a
> > > > > > >few seemingly wealthy(and well meaning) leaders who are
> > still
> > > > poor
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > >comparison.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Ciao,
> > > > > > >dupont
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >On Tue, 19 Aug 2003 19:36:16 +0000 "C Yombi"
> > > > <c_yombi@h...>
> > > > > > >writes:
> > > > > > > > With all due respect,
> > > > > > > > You have visited Gabon but have you lived on the
> > people's
> > > > > > level?
> > > > > > > > Have you
> > > > > > > > seen all of the largess that Bongo has spread to only
> > > > > > his"friends"?
> > > > > > > > Have you
> > > > > > > > seen the prisons and the schools? Have you seen all
of
> > the
> > > > > > obvious
> > > > > > > > hypocrisy? Do you realize that Bongo only repaired
the
> > > > national
> > > > > > > > train
> > > > > > > > service so he could send his fleet of expensive cars
to
> > > > > > Franceville
> > > > > > > > for his
> > > > > > > > annual vacation? How many Gabonese can take a
vacation
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > capital
> > > > > > > > annually? Any nation that has to rely on Peace Corps
to
> > > > > > distribute
> > > > > > > > condoms
> > > > > > > > while trucks get to every corner distributing soft
> > drinks
> > > > has a
> > > > > > > > problem and
> > > > > > > > it starts with the government.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also, when a majority of the population does not
support
> > the
> > > > > > > > president and
> > > > > > > > had little or no voice to change this, is this a
great
> > > > > > democracy?
> > > > > > > > Another
> > > > > > > > principle of the United State's founding fathers was
> > freedom
> > > > of
> > > > > > > > choice. Have
> > > > > > > > you ever heard of Neo-colonialism?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How can individuals work toward supporting their
> > governments
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > country if
> > > > > > > > the government is taking food out of their mouths and
> > > > spending
> > > > > > it on
> > > > > > > > lavish
> > > > > > > > trips to Paris? Have you been to rural health
clinics
> > where
> > > > > > women
> > > > > > > > struggle
> > > > > > > > to keep their children healthy or talked to primary
> > school
> > > > > > students
> > > > > > > > who have
> > > > > > > > no teachers? May be a less idealistic and more
realistic
> > > > > > approach to
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > reality of one party governments in Africa would be
a
> > better
> > > > > > > > approach.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Carol
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >From: dupont3@j...
> > > > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on
> > Terrorism"
> > > > > > > > >Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2003 10:05:13 -0700
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Well , with all due respect, I think that
concentrating
> > on
> > > > > > Bongo's
> > > > > > > > bank
> > > > > > > > >account will get you nowhere.
> > > > > > > > >Ever thought about working with the President to
solve
> > some
> > > > of
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >nations problems?
> > > > > > > > >Here in America we have many of the same problems
and
> > this
> > > > is
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >wealthiest country in the world!
> > > > > > > > >We have an epidemic of homeless people, decaying
> > schools
> > > > in
> > > > > > inner
> > > > > > > > cities
> > > > > > > > >and a railroad(Amtrak) that cannot get its thing
> > together.
> > > > We
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > >spending 4 Billion dollars a month in Iraq at a
time
> > when
> > > > our
> > > > > > > > schools
> > > > > > > > >need books.
> > > > > > > > >I would also like to ask how is it that having
> > President
> > > > Bongo
> > > > > > step
> > > > > > > > down
> > > > > > > > >be good for Gabon or change the current situation
for
> > the
> > > > > > better?
> > > > > > > > >I have been to Gabon and it seems like the country
is
> > > > dependent
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > >French for many things. If the French were to leave
> > would
> > > > it
> > > > > > make
> > > > > > > > >anything better? I think not, it would not make
> > anything
> > > > > > better
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > >getting rid of President Bongo would probably
> > destabilize
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > country and
> > > > > > > > >the region has the resulting power grab would be
like
> > going
> > > > > > back in
> > > > > > > > time.
> > > > > > > > >I think that it is a shame that many Africans seem
to
> > think
> > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > >fighting for power than the issues important for
> > developing
> > > > > > their
> > > > > > > > >country.
> > > > > > > > >It is time to look beyond forced power sharing as a
> > > > solution.
> > > > > > In
> > > > > > > > Gabon
> > > > > > > > >each citizen must first make an effort to support
the
> > > > state.
> > > > > > Only
> > > > > > > > then
> > > > > > > > >will you find the necessary energy to tackle major
> > > > issues.The
> > > > > > > > founding
> > > > > > > > >fathers of the US went by a decree "United We Stand
> > Divided
> > > > We
> > > > > > > > Fall"
> > > > > > > > >Every nation that aspires to economic success must
> > first
> > > > find
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > common
> > > > > > > > >ground to stand on.
> > > > > > > > >The Gabonese are a beautiful and special people and
> > sure,
> > > > there
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > many
> > > > > > > > >who disagree with the President. But there are also
> > many
> > > > who
> > > > > > do
> > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > >understand what a great leader that they have in
Bongo.
> > > > Many
> > > > > > who do
> > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > >understand the complete geopolitical challenge that
not
> > > > only
> > > > > > > > Africans,
> > > > > > > > >but most 3rd world nations face when trying to
develop
> > > > their
> > > > > > > > economies in
> > > > > > > > >this new world order.
> > > > > > > > >Lets discuss bold new ideas and initiatives that
can
> > help
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > President
> > > > > > > > >lead Gabon into the 21st century.
> > > > > > > > >I love the famous quote in President John F
Kennedy's
> > > > > > inauguration
> > > > > > > > speech
> > > > > > > > >when he said, "ask not what your country can do for
> > you,
> > > > but
> > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > you can
> > > > > > > > >do for your country."
> > > > > > > > >Yes, those are just words, but words, if understood
> > > > correctly,
> > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > >inspire man to great heights.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >ciao,
> > > > > > > > >dupont
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 20:46:21 +0000 "C Yombi"
> > > > > > <c_yombi@h...>
> > > > > > > > >writes:
> > > > > > > > > > After having lived in a small town - Leconi -
with a
> > > > "Bongo
> > > > > > > > house"
> > > > > > > > > > while my
> > > > > > > > > > neighbors could hardly afford to send their
children
> > to
> > > > > > school
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > riding on
> > > > > > > > > > the trans-gabonese railway wondering if we were
> > going to
> > > > end
> > > > > > up
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > the water
> > > > > > > > > > because of track neglect, I tend to think words
are
> > just
> > > > > > that -
> > > > > > > > > > words. Don't
> > > > > > > > > > forget that Bongo is bankrolled by the French
> > government
> > > > in
> > > > > > > > order to
> > > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > control over Gabon's dwendling oil wealth. Look
at
> > > > Bongo's
> > > > > > bank
> > > > > > > > > > accounts and
> > > > > > > > > > then at the decaying state of Bongo University
in
> > LBV.
> > > > If
> > > > > > Bongo
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > such a
> > > > > > > > > > good leader, why did he feel the need to renig
on
> > his
> > > > > > promise
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > step down
> > > > > > > > > > in 2005 by ammending the constitution to rule
> > forever?
> > > > Ask
> > > > > > many
> > > > > > > > > > Gabonese and
> > > > > > > > > > they would vhemently disagree with you.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >From: "dupont6" <dupont3@j...>
> > > > > > > > > > >Reply-To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > >To: gabondiscussion@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > > > > > >Subject: [Gabon Discussion] re: "Bongo on
> > Terrorism"
> > > > > > > > > > >Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 17:51:43 -0000
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Hello:
> > > > > > > > > > >I think that stability in any country in Africa
> > depends
> > > > > > more
> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > > >military troops and Presidential guards. Of
course
> > all
> > > > > > leaders
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > >states have serious amounts of protection, but
does
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > "keep"
> > > > > > > > > > them
> > > > > > > > > > >in power? I am more interested in what Bongo
has to
> > say
> > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > >political challenges Africans have to face. I
think
> > > > that it
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > >important to focus now on economic development
and
> > aid
> > > > for
> > > > > > > > African
> > > > > > > > > > >countries. I like what Bongo has to say about
how
> > the
> > > > > > marketing
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > >resources coming out of most African states are
not
> > > > > > controlled
> > > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > >states themselves but by external entities.
> > > > > > > > > > >For example, it is important to develop the
> > > > infrastructure
> > > > > > > > where
> > > > > > > > > > oil
> > > > > > > > > > >producing states are actually refining the oil
that
> > is
> > > > > > > > produced.
> > > > > > > > > > Or
> > > > > > > > > > >where companies marketing the by-products of
> > resources
> > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > > timber,
> > > > > > > > > > >gold and diamonds are actually based and run by
> > > > Africans
> > > > > > native
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > >the region where they are produced. These
things
> > are
> > > > more
> > > > > > > > > > important
> > > > > > > > > > >to the development of peoples lives than who is
in
> > > > > > political
> > > > > > > > > > control
> > > > > > > > > > >or what politician has the most money stashed
away.
> > I
> > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > > arguably
> > > > > > > > > > >that an intelligent and capable African head of
> > state
> > > > > > deserves
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > >have as much money as the Queen of England or
Bill
> > > > Gates
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > >matter. Here in America, individuals
speculating in
> > the
> > > > > > stock
> > > > > > > > > > market
> > > > > > > > > > >can amass wealth and power beyond that of a
> > resource
> > > > rich
> > > > > > > > African
> > > > > > > > > > >country!
> > > > > > > > > > >I agree that Bongo is a better leader to his
> > country
> > > > than
> > > > > > Bush
> > > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > >Blair. His political intelligence seems to be
> > leaps
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > bounds
> > > > > > > > > > >beyond what Bush has to offer for instance.
That is
> > why
> > > > I
> > > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > >he is extremely important for Gabon and for
Africa
> > at
> > > > this
> > > > > > > > time.
> > > > > > > > > > >We have seen in America how term limits
together
> > with
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > influence
> > > > > > > > > > >of special interest in campaign politics has
eroded
> > the
> > > > > > quality
> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > >leaders that are put in the positions of power.
We
> > are
> > > > > > seeing
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > >is the "quality" not quantity that is important
> > when it
> > > > > > comes
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > >political leadership.
> > > > > > > > > > >Also, what does it say about the leadership of
> > African
> > > > > > states
> > > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > >is so easy for Chinese or any other powerful
> > nation to
> > > > > > gain
> > > > > > > > > > economic
> > > > > > > > > > >or political control?
> > > > > > > > > > >So I support President Bongo and hope that his
> > agenda
> > > > > > reaches
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > >ears of those world leaders in power who truly
> > care
> > > > about
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > >development of the African continent. Maybe
after
> > the
> > > > > > debaucle
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > >Liberia, politicians(especially black leaders)
here
> > in
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > states
> > > > > > > > > > >will put more effort into understanding what
> > economic
> > > > > > > > development
> > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > >Africa means to world stability.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >Ciao,
> > > > > > > > > > >dupont
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 02:16:49 -0000 "bobutne"
> > > > > > <bobutne@a...>
> > > > > > > > > > writes:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > M'bolo dupont.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > President Omar Bongo must share (and,
probably,
> > > > > > abdicate)
> > > > > > > > > > > > the "stability to Gabon" mantle with the
French
> > > > (5,000
> > > > > > > > troops
> > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > Gabon and a large garrison
> > surrounding/protecting
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > Presidential
> > > > > > > > > > > > palace) who have worked to assure that he is
> > kept in
> > > > > > power.
> > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > 500
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Moroccan Presidential Guard helps, too.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Bush and Blair are actually debasing the US
and
> > > > Britain
> > > > > > > > world
> > > > > > > > > > > > hegemony by their unilateral actions.
President
> > Omar
> > > > > > Bongo
> > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > doing
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > a better job for Gabon than GWB is doing for
the
> > US
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > world.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The door to Africa is becoming closed to the
> > West
> > > > and
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > being
> > > > > > > > > > left
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > wide open for the Chinese to walk right in
to
> > gain
> > > > > > economic
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > political control. I could expound on this
for
> > many,
> > > > > > many
> > > > > > > > pages
> > > > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > > > here but will desist for now.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
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