>anybody here using after effects to produce panels for an env cube
>shader in Maya???
>
>hue

I don't totally understand what you are trying to achieve... we've
had some issues with the env cube in Maya, looking like a big cube
instead of a continuous background... so instead we use a spherical
projection and a layered shader with 5 camera projections (just like
you create a dome view from the 5 cameras).  If you are creating
circle images in AEF, you can "unstitch" the 4 lower camera images
using glom, but there is no way I know to get the top camera this
way. We usually just composite the background imagery (fulldome
masters) created outside Maya... if you use the SGI format as output
from Maya with an alpha channel, AEF imports the frames and just
layers it over the bkg automatically... does this help in any way?

Tom


--

................................................................................\
...
H o m e   R u n   P i c t u r e s

Tom Casey
President and Creative Director
100 First Avenue, Suite 450
Pittsburgh, PA 15222
412-391-8200
412-391-1772 -fax
mailto:tom@...
http://www.hrpictures.com
................................................................................\
...

Dear Dome Video Guru's,

With great excitement and some hesitation, I would like to announce
my retirement from the Clark Planetarium as of December 2nd, 2004.

It has been somewhat of a difficult decision to come to. Since 1991,
I have had the chance to learn and grow from the influences around me
at this facility and the people that work with us in the planetarium
community. To all of you, thank you. I have met many great minds out
there and have enjoyed my time learning, growing and producing
with/from and for you.

All is not lost. Starlight Productions, as many of you know, is my
future. I am leaving the Clark Planetarium to take care of the ever
increasing work load at Starlight. I plan to continue my relations
with as many of you as I can, and hopefully more!

You can always reach me at atmceuen@.... I don't think
you will find us being strangers to this community. So, see you on
the other side. (Vendorize me!)

Aaron McEuen
Clark Planetarium
Senior Producer/Lead Animator

Hola Domies,

A general call to anyone interested in sharing production tools for
potential DomeFest contributors (and the community at-large):

For 2004 fest site, we provided downloadable Maya rigs (hemicube and a
spherical reflector) and AE rigs/sets, a link to Spitz's Glom, etc.  I'd
appreciate anyone willing to provide rigs and whatnot for 3DMax, LightWave,
whatever.  Other freeware stitchers, utilities and plug-ins you want to
share.  Anything for Mac would be very cool.   Share however you'd prefer to
share--files on DomeFest.com or links to your web joint or www.fulldome.org
perhaps.

I've started soliciting submissions from art+science and
technology+storytelling organizations around the globe that may not know of
fulldome--everybody from ASCI and ARS Electronica to MIT and USC.  I'd
relish support enabling dome newbies through tool-sharing. Ditto with
spreading the word about the festival.

Oh, DF2004 site info is back on-line if anyone wants to review that
nonsense.  www.domefest.com  Details on DF05 coming as soon as possible.

Thanks.

Bueno,
d

david beining
director
LodeStar
1801 Mountain Road, NW
Albuquerque, NM 87104

505.841.5985 (desk)
505.362.2614 (cel)
505.841.5999 (fax)
dbeining@...
www.lodestar.unm.edu

LodeStar is a University of New Mexico project located at the New Mexico
Museum of Natural History.

Now playing in the L* Dome: The Search for Life, presented by Molina
Healthcare of New Mexico and the Albuquerque Journal.

_______________________________________________________________

This message attempts to answer some questions that occasionally come
my way and to keep everybody on the same electronic page. I used to
post it once a month; now I just do it when people start asking
questions.  :)

We're up to 264 members now, with a spate of people joining in the last
week.  (Welcome!)  Yahoo has had some problems with message
notification for postings and memberships; I didn't get email notifying
me that a few things had come through recently, for which I apologize.
Things have slowed a little since our busiest month ever back in
August, but I hope we can keep momentum going on he list.

Just as a reminder, the intended audience for this group is not limited
to users of a particular system or a particular company. Both real-time
and playback media fall under the purvey of the group, within the realm
of both fulldome and panoramic video technologies. While philosophical
speculation about the effect of this nascent technology on the
planetarium medium also makes sense as a topic of discussion, the core
purpose of this list should not stray to subjects better addressed on
DOME-L or in other forums.

I will moderate the list, approving both subscribers and postings. You
may contact me directly by mailing to

fulldome-owner@yahoogroups.com

To send messages to members of this group, simply send email to

fulldome@yahoogroups.com

If you do not wish to belong to fulldome, you may unsubscribe at any
time by sending an email to

fulldome-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

To tell your friends to subscribe, have them send a blank email to

fulldome-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Also, note that many features are available online at the web site
version of the list:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fulldome

Including access to a complete and up-to-date subscriber list and
archives of all postings (even the ones from before you joined). Plus,
you can change account options to have email sent to you in digested
format or only collected online. You must sign up with your email
address and enter a password in order to access these features.

Also, you can respond to our ongoing poll, if you haven't already, on
the web at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/polls/fulldome

You may also visit the Yahoo Groups web site to modify your
subscriptions:

http://groups.yahoo.com/mygroups

Thanks for reading!


Ryan Wyatt, Science Visualizer
Rose Center for Earth & Space
American Museum of Natural History
79th Street & Central Park West
New York, NY 10024
212.313.7903 vox
212.313.7868 fax

what I'm trying to do is create 6 panels in AE using 6
cameras in a cube formation, then bring the 6 images
into the Maya env cube shader and put it onto a
sphere...

the panels will stitch beautifully into a dome master
using the Sky Skan stitcher... and they align nicely
in a photoshop test... the edges match up fine... but
there are fine black lines along the "seams" in the
Maya shader...

and if I try to construct a cube in AE, it looks fine,
no seams, unless I tilt either the cube or the
camera... then "seams" show up again...

hue


> From: Hue Walker <huewalker@...>
> Subject: envcube
>
> anybody here using after effects to produce panels
> for an env cube shader in Maya???
>
> I don't totally understand what you are trying to
> achieve... we've had some issues with the env
> cube in Maya,

Hue,

Sounds like it may be a texture anti-aliasing issue. It's a while since I
have used Maya but I think I remember coming across it before. Usually you
don't notice as it is not often that every pixel counts from the texture
map. Have a look at any filtering that is being done to your bitmaps.

Hope that helps a little

Paul Mowbray

National Space Centre, Exploration Drive, Leicester, LE4 5NS, UK.
Tel:  +44 (0) 116 2582101
Fax: +44 (0) 116 2582100
www.spacecentre.co.uk



what I'm trying to do is create 6 panels in AE using 6
cameras in a cube formation, then bring the 6 images
into the Maya env cube shader and put it onto a
sphere...

the panels will stitch beautifully into a dome master
using the Sky Skan stitcher... and they align nicely
in a photoshop test... the edges match up fine... but
there are fine black lines along the "seams" in the
Maya shader...

and if I try to construct a cube in AE, it looks fine,
no seams, unless I tilt either the cube or the
camera... then "seams" show up again...

hue


> From: Hue Walker <huewalker@...>
> Subject: envcube
>
> anybody here using after effects to produce panels
> for an env cube shader in Maya???
>
> I don't totally understand what you are trying to
> achieve... we've had some issues with the env
> cube in Maya,

Hue,

I'm not using Maya but encountered this problem. My program would not texture
the last pixel of my faces even when I numericaly corrected the map (1025 square
map on a 1024 square face).

Finally, the trick was to repeat the texture (mirror) in every direction.  Only
then the last pixel was covered. Different programs, different problems...

Richard Joly
RDN Multimedia
6733 15e Avenue
Montréal, Qc H1X 2V7

Hue... try turning off wrap in the cube shader (each panel's tex)...
I think we've had this problem as well and it was because the edge is
wrapping around and there is a miss-sizing going on in the
calculation.  If this is not better, I would suggest the other idea I
mentioned, where you project the textures using camera projections
onto  a layered spherical environment shader (the same setup like you
were doing a typical 5-camera dome render, just sort of backwards)...
I could send you a mb file if you want... or you could stitch the AE
files into dome masters, use glom to change them all to rectangular
projections and just map them onto a spherical background in the
standard uv fashion (you will need to rotate the texture 90 degrees
to get it right)... just figure which route is the easiest pipeline.

Tom



>what I'm trying to do is create 6 panels in AE using 6
>cameras in a cube formation, then bring the 6 images
>into the Maya env cube shader and put it onto a
>sphere...
>
>the panels will stitch beautifully into a dome master
>using the Sky Skan stitcher... and they align nicely
>in a photoshop test... the edges match up fine... but
>there are fine black lines along the "seams" in the
>Maya shader...
>
>and if I try to construct a cube in AE, it looks fine,
>no seams, unless I tilt either the cube or the
>camera... then "seams" show up again...
>
>hue
>
--

................................................................................\
...
H o m e   R u n   P i c t u r e s

Tom Casey
President and Creative Director
100 First Avenue, Suite 450
Pittsburgh, PA 15222
412-391-8200
412-391-1772 -fax
mailto:tom@...
http://www.hrpictures.com
................................................................................\
...

got help for the AE half from the AE list... panels
needed "alpha add" to make alpha masks add rather than
multiply...

then in Maya, with Tom's clue, figured out that Maya
needed "no filter" on the file textures...

voila! no seams...

h

Dear Fellow Fulldomers,

For those who don't already know of my recent pursuits, I'm leading a
startup HDTV cable television network called Harmony Channel.  We're
presently in negotiations with Comcast - they want us initially as a
video-on-demand network.  We have been pitching to private and
institutional equity sources that love our channel concept and want to
support us.  Things are starting to move fast.  Alas, we will need
original HDTV music video content fast, too.  We'll also have a need for
standard definition videos, but all original productions that we fund
will be in HD or fulldome video.

Having spent 15 years working in the dome theater business, I know the
impact that beautiful visuals and music can have on the psyche.  Most of
you do, too. Harmony Channel is in the business of delivering nonstop
mood-elevating music videos without overt commercial interruptions.  No
talking heads, no rapid-fire cuts, just smooth, pure visual and musical
entertainment.  In addition to the primary focus as a television
network, we'll also be commissioning fulldome theater programming for
community/brand building.

I have seen lots of fulldome shows that would make GREAT Harmony Channel
programs when rendered out to 1080i flat-screen with 16:9 aspect ratio.
We are accepting 1080i programming that ranges from 60 seconds to 26
minutes or more in length.  We would likely re-mix or replace the sound
track with pure instrumental music (only poetic narration or positive
lyrics here) and might have to re-edit the piece a bit to fit our
format.  The basic idea is to create a music video (we're calling them
"mood videos") that fit one of our seven "mood zones."  We're also in
need of original music, too.  Our quality standards are quite high, but
the mood zones allow a wide range in the type of content (from high-end
3D animation to simple 2D abstracts).

Eventually we'll have standard win-win license agreements assuring our
producers and artists a long-term royalty stream commensurate with
Harmony Channel's revenue.  Right now, however, we need to jump start
our content library.  We need content that we can acquire with little or
no up-front cash, that we can use indiscriminately (for promos,
broadcast, web, etc) at least for the first year or so (non-exclusive
license).  We'll also be publishing and selling DVD's -if we publish
your piece we'll negotiate a license agreement that provides you with
royalties on our sales.  After we get onto our feet, we'll be looking to
establish long-term relationships with producers to assure a constant
flow of new material and an occasional fulldome version of the most
impressive programs.

If anyone out there wants the recognition of being one of the first
Harmony Channel artists, and wants to see your work on television or
high-definition DVD, please drop me an email and tell me a little about
yourself and what content you have or would propose.  We'll send you a
draft style guide and will ask for a reel of your work (DVD, quicktime
video, etc.).

Best regards,

Ed


Edward J. Lantz
Harmony Channel
P.O. Box 1367
1290 Baltimore Pike, Suite 111
Chadds Ford, PA 19317
Tel: 484.467.1267
Fax: 610.358.1689
Cell: 484.459.0406
Email: ed@...
Web:  <http://www.harmonychannel.com> www.harmonychannel.com

p.s. - I'm still doing fulldome planetarium consulting through Visual
Bandwidth, Inc. We're a network of independent consultants with years of
combined experience in the creative, engineering, business and
architectural aspects of fulldome theaters.  Check us out at
www.visualbandwidth.com <http://www.visualbandwidth.com/> .

For you multi-channel processing enthusiasts - LakeDSP Huron watch out:

http://www.bionicfx.com

BionicFX Announces Audio
Processing on NVIDIA GPU
Revolutionary Programming and Innovation uses
GPU as Powerful Audio Effect Processor

Cambridge, MA, September 2, 2004: BionicFX announces a revolutionary technology
for music production that turns NVIDIA video cards into audio effects
processors. Audio Video Exchange (AVEX) converts digital audio into graphics
data, and then performs effect calculations using the 3D architecture of the
GPU. The latest video cards from NVIDIA are capable of more than 40 gigaflops of
processing power compared to less than 6 gigaflops on Intel and AMD CPUs. AVEX
represents a major technological achievement that allows music hobbyists and
professional artists to run studio quality audio effects at high sample rates on
their desktop computer.

BionicReverb, the first effect to use AVEX, will debut at Winter NAMM Conference
in January 2005. BionicReverb is an impulse response reverberation effect that
runs as a plugin inside VST compatible multi-track recording software. The audio
effect is generated by combining an impulse response file with digital audio.
Impulse response files are created by firing a starter pistol inside a location,
such as Carnegie Hall, and recording the echoing sound waves. Combining the two
files through mathematical convolution is a CPU intensive process that is
reduced by moving expensive calculations onto the GPU. Amateur and professional
guitarists, singers, pianists, and other musicians will be able to create
performances in their home or studio that sound exactly like they were recorded
in famous locations around the world.

AVEX works by transforming audio streams into the structure and colors of
graphics data. The graphics data is processed on the video card by pixel or
fragment shaders that run audio effect algorithms, which read and write to
textures in video memory. The final calculations are retrieved from off-screen
buffers and decoded into audio.

david

--------------------------
david mcconville
http://www.elumenati.com
828.236.9777 (studio)
828.279.7421 (mobile when traveling)

Hi everyone,

I just posted this on Dome-L so please forgive the duplication.

Michael
--------------

Hello all,

I am conducting a survey of planetariums to help gather statistics to
support the business plan we have developed for our new science
center project here in Tucson. It's mostly focused on medium to large
sized planetariums and those with fulldome systems, but others are
welcome to reply. You will notice some of the questions have to do
with philosophies behind programming and operations and I appreciate
input from anyone who has heartfelt opinions in these areas,
regardless of what kind of facility you have. I am also seeking input
from those of you who have large format film theaters and
observatories as part of your center, since we are looking at having
those components as part of our project. The survey is lengthy but I
would appreciate any and all input you would be willing to provide.
I'll also be posting this survey on the fulldome list-serv.

Thanks in advance for all your help.

Michael Magee
Flandrau Science Center and Planetarium

---------------
Questions:

1.  How many FTE staff do you have devoted to planetarium operations
and production?
2.  What are the titles and general job duties of those planetarium staff?
       2a.) If appropriate can you please provide mid-point salary
information for those positions?
3.  Do you produce your own planetarium shows?
       3a.) If yes then how often do you produce your own shows?
       3b.) If yes then what are the costs involved in producing your own shows?
       3c.) If yes then do you make your shows available for sale?
4.  Do you purchase or lease shows from outside sources?
       4a.) If yes then how often do your purchase/lease shows?
       4b.) If yes then what do those shows cost?
5.  What are your total operating costs on an annual basis? (i.e.,
salaries, maintenance, operations, lease/purchase fees, production,
etc.)
6.  What are your average total annual revenues for planetarium
functions? (Gate receipts, grants, donations, etc.)
       6a.) Do you rely on other monetary support such as state, city,
parent organization funding?
       6b.) If 6a is yes then what is your total annual support from these areas?
7.  Do you have a "Fulldome" projection system?
       7a.) If yes then what type of system do you have?
       7b.) If yes then do you also have a traditional planetarium projector?
       7c.) If no then what forms of media do you use in your planetarium?
8.  With either a traditional planetarium projector or a fulldome
projection system (or both) do you offer shows about topics other
than astronomy?
       8a.) If yes then what other topics do you cover?
9.  What size is your dome?
       9a.) Is your dome tilted or not?
       9b.) If tilted then to what degree?
10. How many seats do you have in your planetarium?
11. What portion of your annual operating costs do you put into
marketing your shows?
12. What size is your city population base?


Extra in-depth questions:

1.  What do you consider to be the most important staff positions and
skills needed for a planetarium to function well?
2.  Same question as above but focused on Fulldome operations?
3.  What collaborations do you explore to help you with your show
ideas and development?
4.  How important is producing your own shows to you vs. leasing or
purchasing shows?
5.  What kinds of facilities do you have to support your operations
and how much square footage is devoted to each? (Office space,
video/computer graphics production, audio production, storage space,
workshop space, etc.)
6.  How important is it to you to produce content other than astronomy related?

------------------------

Michael V. Magee
Planetarium Director
Flandrau Science Center
1601 E. University Blvd
University of Arizona
Tucson,  AZ  85721

Voice:  (520) 621-3645
FAX:    (520) 621-8451
email:  mvmagee@...
http://www.flandrau.org/

Hi all... we've added two new download-able pdf files at our
Fulldome@HomeRunPictures web site... imagery from the almost fully
completed Earth's Wild Ride show...

http://www.hrpictures.com/fulldome

Tom



--

................................................................................\
...
H o m e   R u n   P i c t u r e s

Tom Casey
President and Creative Director
100 First Avenue, Suite 450
Pittsburgh, PA 15222
412-391-8200
412-391-1772 -fax
mailto:tom@...
http://www.hrpictures.com
................................................................................\
...

FYI:

From: <isast@...>
To: <leonardo-isast@...>
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 2004 16:42:50 -0800
Subject: [Leonardo/ISAST Network] 9th Space Arts Workshop and Symposium

9th Leonardo/Olats Space and the Arts Workshop,
Chateau d'Yverdon, Yverdon-les-Bains, Switzerland,
19-21 May 2005

Call for Participation
"Space: Planetary Consciousness and the Arts" is the theme of the 9th
workshop and symposium on space and the arts, co-organized by the O.U.R.S.
Foundation, Leonardo/Olats, Maison d'Ailleurs and the International Academy
of Astronautics (IAA) and its Commission VI".

The deadline for abstract submission is February 28, 2005.

Following acceptance a complete paper will be required and the author(s)
will be invited to register for the event.

Timetable
28 February 2005 - Deadline for abstracts
31 March 2005 - Notification of acceptance
20 April 2005 - Preliminary programme
7 May 2005 - Deadline for papers
19-21 May 2005 - Workshop & Symposium

Workshop & Symposium Topics
Presentations can be about any aspect or issue related to "Space: Planetary
Consciousness and the Arts". Since the scope of the Workshop is large,
potential authors might like to consider submitting abstracts for papers
addressing such topics as:

- the impact of space exploration on the arts and vice versa
- the impact of space science on the environmental consciousness
- the role of arts in expressing planetary consciousness
- the ethical aspects of space exploration and planetary responsibility
- the impact of space exploration on philosophy and vice versa
- synergies between the arts, environmental and space communities
- the interaction between space, arts and the public
- using the arts to explore and comprehend space

Authors need not, of course, limit themselves to these topics.

Programme Committee
Arthur Woods (OURS Foundation)
Annick Bureaud (Leonardo/Olats)
Roger Malina (International Academy of Astronautics)
David Raitt (ESA)
Patrick Gyger, (Maison d'Ailleurs)

VISIT http://leonardo.info and click on "WHAT'S NEW" for more details on the
workshop and symposium.

_______________________________________________
Leonardo-isast mailing list
Leonardo-isast@...
http://mailman.mit.edu/mailman/listinfo/leonardo-isast

--------------------------
david mcconville
http://www.elumenati.com
828.236.9777 (studio)
828.279.7421 (mobile when traveling)

Dear Fulldomers ,

I have a question ,how do i prepare an image to be projected on a
dome using 3 projectors wether if it is a video or 3d rendering?
thank you

A Happy New Year to all Fulldome readers,

Strangely, this is the first time I have ever written to fulldome. My normal
habitat is Dome-l.

My metier is the manufacture of marvellous inflatable domes the best in the
world.( Says he ! ) Those who attended the IPS in Valencia last July will have
seen two of my domes being used by Skyskan and Zeiss.

This following message arrived in my in tray the day after Christmas.  I am not
competent to give any help in this particular regard and can only hope that
there is someone on this readership list who is.

Many thanks in anticipation.

Could I ask that you keep me in the loop if you do reply.

                                                      Yours, ignorantly,

                                                               Ray Worthy

===

  From studio@... Sun Dec 26 19:32:23 2004


Hi

Merry Christmas!

We are a production house from Mumbai, India. We have a high end film project
which will be eventually projected in a 360 dome theatre in various planetariums
around the world.

Can you help us in acquiring more info on the production of the project? We will
require some urgent information on which format/camera to shoot  the film for a
360 multiple camera projection? Dome camera hire, production, and costs?  Also
if there is any way we can collaborate on this project?

Please reply at the earliest. And please mention when is a good time to call
you...

Regards

Indrajit Nattoji
Director
Blink Pictures

www.blinkpictures.tv

--

Ray Worthy               http://www.stargazer-planetariums.co.uk
Stargazer Planetariums UK .
Mobile domes built to order.     raymond@...
5 Elmwood Place, Hartlepool.  UK     TS26 0LE         Tel. 01429 268086.

All:

I've been asked by our new Deputy Director for Marketing for what capacity our
planetarium is current operating at. We do approximately 500 public programs per
year, which if full is 25,000 people. Now of course we don't sell out shows
every day so our actual attendance is about 10,000. (Last year was a good year
for us with 10,682, but this year, especially the fall has been poor, we're
running about 20% less attendance for 2004.)

I'm afraid if I just tell him we're running at 43% capacity without any context,
that it will reflect poorly on the planetarium. So my question is what capacity
does your theater run at and how does this compare to other similar theaters
(i.e. Imax) - how does this compare to the capacity of movie theaters? (I've
recently read that movie theaters may run at as little as 12-15% due to an
overenthusiastic building boom).

Kevin D. Conod
Planetarium Manager / Astronomer
The Newark Museum's Dreyfuss Planetarium
49 Washington Street, Newark, NJ 07102
kconod@...
973-596-6529
Fax: 973-642-0459

Reach for the stars at the Dreyfuss Planetarium!
Visit our web site at:
www.newarkmuseum.org/planetarium


=====
Kevin Conod
kdconod@...



__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Dress up your holiday email, Hollywood style. Learn more.
http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com

As a follow-up to Kevin's question about attendance and capacity, I was
wondering if any of y'all have data for your theaters before and after
fulldome?  For those who were open with traditional planetarium
technology before "upgrading" to fulldome, have you experienced an
upswing in attendance?

Inquiring minds...


Ryan, a.k.a.
Ryan Wyatt, Science Visualizer
Rose Center for Earth & Space
American Museum of Natural History
79th Street & Central Park West
New York, New York 10024
212.313.7903 vox

From Carolyn Sumners at the Houston Museum of Natural Science, Burke
Baker Planetarium:

===

Absolute attendance data depend on so many factors - advertising,
attendance of the parent institution, public interest in the show
topic. However, I can say that before we renovated in 1998, we were
drawing 10% of IMAX attendance. (We sit next door to the IMAX theater
and have the same hourly capacity). Over the next two years we
stabilized at 25% of IMAX. This fall we opened Secrets of the Dead Sea
to go along with the Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit and we reached 65% of
IMAX. Our ticket price is lower so we're not close to revenue parity.
Also IMAX attendance has been dropping, but at least it's not taking us
with it.

Our two best attended planetarium shows have been Night of the Titanic
and Secrets of the Dead Sea, both drawing non-astronomy audiences and
both associated with a high-drawing exhibit. In fact both shows told a
story that related directly to the exhibit and made a real difference
in the quality of the exhibit experience.

This year we are opening Earth's Wild Ride with the IMAX Forces of
Nature to see how a two-theater promotion works.

The digital dome theater has the flexibility to address topics of broad
audience appeal and to create products that really complement an
exhibit experience. It's an advantage over our starfield based product
and an advantage over the inflexibility of IMAX.

The most significant discovery we've made is the 14mpixel camera with
fish eye lens which gives us a dome master 3000 pixels across. Most of
Secrets was created by this lens (with timelapse and After-effects
compositing) and high resolution imagery from NASA.

We're busy photographing extremophiles now.

-- it's a very exciting time!

Carolyn

As a follow-up to Ryan's follow-up about attendance and capacity, a perusal
of the Loch Ness Productions database indicates that of the nearly 3000
planetarium theaters around the world, more than 100 have fulldome video
capability.

So -- 3 percent, give or take.

  >> Mark


   ______________________________________________
   Mark C. Petersen       mark@...
   Loch Ness Productions  http://www.lochness.com
   __________________________ GEODESIUM _________

Mark

The more interesting question might be -- how many planetarium seats
(or planetarium visitors) experience full dome video. I suspect that 3%
is underestimating the true effect.

Carolyn

On Dec 29, 2004, at 10:17 AM, Mark C. Petersen wrote:

> As a follow-up to Ryan's follow-up about attendance and capacity, a
> perusal of the Loch Ness Productions database indicates that of the
> nearly 3000 planetarium theaters around the world, more than 100
> have fulldome video capability.
>
> So -- 3 percent, give or take.
>
>>> Mark

On Dec 29, 2004, at 12:13 PM, Carolyn Home wrote:

> The more interesting question might be -- how many planetarium seats
> (or planetarium visitors) experience full dome video.

Agreed.  I was thinking the same thing, since fulldome is (for now at
least) disproportionately seen in larger domes.

> I suspect that 3% is underestimating the true effect.

Given that the best-attended theaters in the U.S. (New York and D.C.,
to name two) and in Europe (London and Hamburg, to name two more)
utilize fulldome video, the attendance will certainly work out to
greater than 3%.  The Rose Center alone accounts for more than 4% of
the U.S. attendance (according to Mark's tally, available at
http://www.lochness.com/pltref/attend.html), so all those other
fulldome theaters are icing on the cake.  :)

So, Mark, is there any way to convolve fulldome video capability with
dome size, number of seats, or estimated attendance?  :)

Sorry for the proliferation of emoticons...


Ryan, a.k.a.
Ryan Wyatt, Science Visualizer
Rose Center for Earth & Space
American Museum of Natural History
79th Street & Central Park West
New York, New York 10024
212.313.7903 vox

Speaking of fulldome sites with huge attendance - Papalote children's museum's
Domodigital Banamex in Mexico City and Beijing Planetarium (the latter opened
12/12) are two more tipping the charts I think.

Joyce
Spitz, Inc.


-----Original Message-----

Given that the best-attended theaters in the U.S. (New York and D.C., to name
two) and in Europe (London and Hamburg, to name two more) utilize fulldome
video, the attendance will certainly work out to greater than 3%.  The Rose
Center alone accounts for more than 4% of the U.S. attendance (according to
Mark's tally, available at http://www.lochness.com/pltref/attend.html), so all
those other fulldome theaters are icing on the cake.  :)

At 03:17 PM 12/29/2004, Ryan Wyatt wrote:

>So, Mark, is there any way to convolve fulldome video capability with dome
>size, number of seats, or estimated attendance?

The answer is yes, surely there is a way.  But I'm not sure exactly what
you're asking for. :-)

In my planetarium database, I have a field each for dome size, seating
capacity, and annual attendance.

The first two are relatively straightforward; given any dome diameter,
there's a nominal number of seats you're going to fit under it.  The
average 18-21 meter dome has 280 seats.  The smaller the dome, the less
room there is for seats, so the number diminishes accordingly.  You have
9-10 diameter dome, you're going to fit 60-80 seats under it.  Having
fulldome capability would not seem to significantly affect that law of
physics. If the question is whether the average fulldome theater has more
or less seats than the average non-fulldome theater, a couple of quick
passes show they're within 20-30 one way or the other, depending on size --
some more, some less.  I could comb through the data points I have, but I
wouldn't expect to find anything major here.

As to the attendance, maybe I should start keeping track of the year for
which the attendance figure refers.  I have not done so; when someone sends
me an annual attendance figure, I simply enter it, and that's what gets
used for eternity.  It was valid at the time it was submitted, anyway.  So,
for example, I show Rose Center as having 1.2 million attendance, because
that's the last figure you reported.  As always, I welcome and appreciate
updated figures -- and figures in general.  I know Carolyn Sumners analyzes
Houston's attendance four ways from Sunday, but she's never shared any with
me, so her theater's not included in my estimates. (Hint, hint, C.S.!
<http://www.lochness.com/lpc/formflt.html>)

I did set a filter to run my "Worldwide Attendance" estimator using only
fulldome theaters.  It came up with 6 million U.S., and 6 million
International.  So 100 fulldome theaters could be potentially serving 12
million people.  Overall, it estimates worldwide planetarium attendance at
3000 theaters as 94 million (fulldome and not together).  Can one conclude
that fulldome theaters are four times more successful?  I'd be hesitant to
draw *that* conclusion from the data accumulation I have.

Ryan, I don't know if I've answered your question, but let me know if you'd
like other information. I'll be happy to poke into the database to see what
I can come up with.  That's one of the reasons why I maintain it.

  >> Mark





   ______________________________________________
   Mark C. Petersen       mark@...
   Loch Ness Productions  http://www.lochness.com
   __________________________ GEODESIUM _________

Posted for David Beining...

===

Good business discussion: While a lot less interesting than the
production/vision vector, money's that necessary resource...

A little on LodeStar (a U of New Mexico project located at and operated
in partnership with state's natural history museum and it's 501c3
foundation:

Our fulldome theater exists in a four-venue institution--general
admission (exhibits run by state partners), 8/70 Iwerks(TM) 280-seat
theater (run by museum's foundation), a 12-seat SimEx Virtual
Voyages(TM) motion simulation theater (run by L*) and the 55-ft,
150-seat (more on that below) DigitalSkyHD planetarium.

We charge the same rates as large-format film theater ($6 adults--it's
a poor state...)

We present at same schedule as film theater and shows run 40-45 minutes
(star shows and ~22-minute feature show with ~20-minute live proloug)

We run 3 star shows and 4 feature shows per day on normal on-the-hour
Sun-Sat schedule.

We're capturing 35-40% of general admission visitors (200-250k annual
to exhibits)

We're capturing 50-60% of film theater numbers.

We're filling roughly 30% seat capacity.

We opened with fulldome (SkyVision)  and D2 in 2000 and don't have a
non-fulldome history.

These numbers, however, include our aggressive evening schedule of
planetarium+observatory events, DomeFest and other A&E events, etc.  We
work harder than the Iwerks group to keep our numbers up.

We've increased our star show attendance since introducing DigitalSky
(replacing D2.)  No research yet, but the storytelling abilities
(visuals) and starfield quality are assumed the reason.

Our marketing always limps a long at best.  It's nowhere near the scale
of the Iwerks theater (but quality's better :-) ).  This is a function
of history in small marketplace.  The film theater has been around 12+
years longer and has long-term agreements with the biggest/best media
PSA/sponsorship partners.  The quality and innovation of the dome is
chipping away at that, but we're not getting the saturation we need to
really make the dome a mass market icon.

We opened in back in the dark ages (2000) when the show leasing and
local production opportunities weren't what they are today.  Primacy
effect in effect...  I'd love to open today; getting out of the gate
with stare shows in DigitalSky and feature shows of the "Search for
Life" quality.

Market: 'greater metro area' = ~ 600k; state = 1.6M; 2nd poorest state
in per capital income, single media center for state is in ABQ
dominated by one paper, three TV network affliliates, 3 radio
mega-congomorates.  (Hate media centralization if only for professional
reasons....)

I hope those factoids help.  I'd like to compare with others...

A couple other things:

First, any antecodotals on dome size to seat count ratios since
fulldome's introduction?  I designed L* specifically for fulldome and
felt (and feel) you can't put seats too close to the springline.  So,
we're way below Mark's standards with a 55-ft (17M) dome with 150 seats
(our mini-pit occupies 6 seats for a utilitarian single-channel
projector).

Second, I appreciated Carolyn's information on non-astro shows appeal
and effect.  While we haven't embarked on these sorts of shows that are
coupled to exhibits/programs, I see fulldome as enabling these programs
and the extra earned revenue can augment the production of classic star
shows that set minds soaring and get butts in seats--a great
opportunity for our theaters to provide great astro education through
great 'other science' education.  Gotta have the bucks to get the work
done...

happy new year.  let's make 2005 the year fulldome becomes the big idea
in museum venues/media...

bueno,
david
david beining
director
LodeStar
1801 Mountain Road, NW
Albuquerque, NM 87104

505.841.5985 (desk)
505.362.2614 (cel)
505.841.5999 (fax)
dbeining@...
www.lodestar.unm.edu

LodeStar is a University of New Mexico project located at the New
Mexico Museum of Natural History.

Now playing in the L* Dome: The Search for Life, presented by Molina
Healthcare of New Mexico and the Albuquerque Journal.

Posted for David Beining...

===

LodeStar has a new position ready for a very, very special person.  The
Operations Manager will be, effectively, the associate director who
will lead daily operations to ensure quality public programs, smart
business planning, and great experiences for our constiuents. See the
HR-milled description at
http://jobs.unm.edu/jobopenings.cfm?action=ViewThisOne&REQID=40592
 
Only the smartest, most creative, convivial and dedicated need apply. 
Candidly, there's already a strong pool of people who want to work in
the lunacy with call LodeStar.  Have a look and let me know if you have
Qs. Apply if you've got what it takes and want to work with a great
team and innovative project.
 
bueno,
david
david beining
director
LodeStar
1801 Mountain Road, NW
Albuquerque, NM 87104

505.841.5985 (desk)
505.362.2614 (cel)
505.841.5999 (fax)
dbeining@...
www.lodestar.unm.edu

LodeStar is a University of New Mexico project located at the New
Mexico Museum of Natural History.

Now playing in the L* Dome: The Search for Life, presented by Molina
Healthcare of New Mexico and the Albuquerque Journal.

I notice all the theaters mentioned are in large cities.  We at the Science Center of Iowa are in a smaller venue, and will be moving to a new facility in 4 months (yikes!).

I can't help you with your estimates.  We are doing everything we can to make the Star Theater different from the IMAX.  No seats (we are putting 4 rows of tiers in the back), a shallow tilt, and we hope to make it interactive (not with the rows of seat buttons).  We settled on a 50 foot dome for a number of reasons.

A few things I'd like to know from Houston:

Where did you get the camera?  Sounds handy.

Did your increase in IMAX capture correlate with your being able to create these more sophisticated shows?  i.e.: with staff experience?

Do you believe the IMAX attendance is dropping BECAUSE the planetarium shows are getting better?  In other words, if people are paying less to go into the planetarium and are satisfied they have had their 'big theater experience', are they less inclined to pay even more to get a second experience?

This was our thought when we decided our planetarium would remain an un-ticketed venue.  It remains part of our general admission.

Steve Cooper
Production
Science Center of Iowa
4500 Grand Ave.
Des Moines, Iowa 50312
stevec@...
515-274-4138 X:231

The American Museum of Natural History, Space Telescope Science
Institute, and Denver Museum of Nature and Science invite you to
particpate in "Seeing the Universe: Visualizing Space for Informal
Science Education Audiences," a focus group workshop scheduled for 2–4
February 2004 at the American Museum of Natural History in New York
City.

The focus group will bring together visualization providers, users,
commercial vendors and NASA scientists and mission personnel in order
to identify the next steps and coordinate our efforts. We will examine
the lessons learned from previous efforts and identify the assets,
capabilities, needs, and limitations of each community involved in
bringing high quality visualizations to informal science education
audiences. Special attention will be paid to developing tool kits that
empower informal education institutions to tailor content to their
particular audiences, technologies, and programs. Additional focus will
be placed on the unique needs of and opportunities provided by
domed/immersive theatres. The focus group will foster inter-community
communication and coordination, leading to collaboration on future
projects.

Please visit our information page to apply:
       http://www.haydenplanetarium.org/workshop/

Among others in attendance will be Alex Barnett (Chabot Space and
Science Center), Dave Brody (Imaginova / Space.com), Donna Cox (NCSA),
Joel Halverson (Science Museum of Minnesota), Robert Hurt (Spitzer
Science Center / Caltech), Randy Landsberg (Center for Cosmological
Physics, University of Chicago), Tom Levenson (MIT / NOVA), Martin
Ratcliffe (Exploration Place), Steve Savage (Sky-Skan), Kevin Scott
(Evans & Sutherland), Jim Sweitzer (Science Communications
Consultants), Martin Weiss (New York Hall of Science), and Ka Chun Yu
(Denver Museum of Nature & Science).

There is no registration fee, but we have only limited travel support
available for selected participants.

Deadline for application: 17 January 2005

Specific objectives of the focus group are to:
+ identify and summarize the resources, capabilities, needs, and
limitations of each community involved in bringing visualizations to
informal science education audiences, with special focus on users'
needs and producers' capabilities;
+ examine case studies of previous visualization activities and extract
the lessons learned;
+ elicit feedback for NASA about its current and future role in the
pipeline and recommend strategies for improvement;
+ assess the drivers behind the creation of specific visualizations
(missions, educational products and programs, planetarium shows, etc.)
and develop a straw-man priority-ranked list of desired visualizations;
+ examine the opportunities and challenges unique to fully immersive
(i.e., domed) environments;
+ identify strategies for facilitating coordination among partners
(including NASA), providing for training and professional development
within and between communities, and addressing roadblocks or other
issues of concern;
+ communicate the results of the focus group efforts to NASA and, as
appropriate, to the community at large;
+ establish collaborations in the community.

If you have an opportunity, please go to our web page to apply for
attendance.  We hope to see you in New York!


Ryan, a.k.a.
Ryan Wyatt, Science Visualizer
Rose Center for Earth & Space
American Museum of Natural History
79th Street & Central Park West
New York, New York 10024
212.313.7903 vox

I'd quipped:
>> So, Mark, is there any way to convolve fulldome video capability with
>> dome size, number of seats, or estimated attendance?

And Mark stepped up to the plate:
> The answer is yes, surely there is a way.  But I'm not sure exactly
> what you're asking for. :-)

Pretty much what you sent.  And the smiley face after "attendance"
(deleted from the above quotation) was supposed to dissuade you from
doing any work, but you went ahead and did it anyway!  Thanks.

> In my planetarium database, I have a field each for dome size, seating
> capacity, and annual attendance.

I probably should have used the word "correlate" instead of "convolve"
in my off-the-cuff request.  I'm spending too much time with
astrophysicists (they don't even call 'em astronomers around here).

> If the question is whether the average fulldome theater has more or
> less seats than the average non-fulldome theater, a couple of quick
> passes show they're within 20-30 one way or the other, depending on
> size -- some more, some less.  I could comb through the data points I
> have, but I wouldn't expect to find anything major here.

Hmmm.  I probably would have phrased the question as, "How many seats
are in fulldome theaters versus the total number of seats?"  But that's
functionally equivalent to your question, I suppose.

> As to the attendance, maybe I should start keeping track of the year
> for which the attendance figure refers.  I have not done so; when
> someone sends me an annual attendance figure, I simply enter it, and
> that's what gets used for eternity.  It was valid at the time it was
> submitted, anyway.

Fortunately, no one in the planetarium field is prone to exaggeration.
:)

> So, for example, I show Rose Center as having 1.2 million attendance,
> because that's the last figure you reported.

Yeah, this past year's was probably more like 1 million, but I don't
count those beans, and I haven't asked for a recent tally.  Given how
long it takes for me to get from the subway to my office this week,
though, I'm inclined to trust the 1.2 million.  Feels like we have an
extra quarter-million people in the building this week alone.

Anyway...

> I did set a filter to run my "Worldwide Attendance" estimator using
> only fulldome theaters.  It came up with 6 million U.S., and 6 million
> International.  So 100 fulldome theaters could be potentially serving
> 12 million people.  Overall, it estimates worldwide planetarium
> attendance at 3000 theaters as 94 million (fulldome and not together).
>  Can one conclude that fulldome theaters are four times more
> successful?  I'd be hesitant to draw *that* conclusion from the data
> accumulation I have.

Hmmm.  How many fulldome theaters report *actual* attendance?  Can you
say that X fulldome theaters report attendance of x million people
annually?

> Ryan, I don't know if I've answered your question, but let me know if
> you'd like other information. I'll be happy to poke into the database
> to see what I can come up with.  That's one of the reasons why I
> maintain it.

You certainly shed additional light on the matter.  Very interesting
stuff.  Thanks for sharing!


Ryan, a.k.a.
Ryan Wyatt, Science Visualizer
Rose Center for Earth & Space
American Museum of Natural History
79th Street & Central Park West
New York, New York 10024
212.313.7903 vox

Steve

My responses to your questions:

The camera is from Kodak (14Mpixel) and is available -- try ebay.  The
8mm lens is a bit trickier to find. You have to search a bit.

The IMAX is sinking without the planetarium's help. We might be
benefiting from IMAX's woes. The dome is a unique experience -- a large
flat screen no longer is.

Using the fisheye camera, you reduce your need for 3D animation
considerably -- what you're shooting already has the proper aspect
ratio. Your production of "real" places and scenes and time lapse stuff
(like sunrises) has now been made much easier. Your staff just needs to
know AfterEffects or the equivalent. However if you want to show
dinosaurs and alien worlds, you're back in CG mode.

We sell a lot of stuff at our box office and it seems to work. You can
by Museum exhibits, the Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit, the Tibet exhibit,
the Butterfly Center, one or more of 5 IMAX features, and one or more
of 3 planetarium shows. It's like going to the box office of a
multi-plex and folks seem to respond. We are not sure if we'd benefit
from a combination ticket in general. We offer a combination for Dead
Sea Scrolls and Secrets of the Dead Sea in the planetarium, for
instance. This definitely drives planetarium traffic.

Hope this information helps.

Carolyn


On Dec 30, 2004, at 11:35 AM, Steve Cooper wrote:

> A few things I'd like to know from Houston:

> Where did you get the camera?  Sounds handy.

> Did your increase in IMAX capture correlate with your being able to
> create these more sophisticated shows?  i.e.: with staff experience?

> Do you believe the IMAX attendance is dropping BECAUSE the planetarium
> shows are getting better?  In other words, if people are paying less
> to go into the planetarium and are satisfied they have had their 'big
> theater experience', are they less inclined to pay even more to get a
> second experience?