HIWRE BAZAAR (MAHARASHTRA) INDIA, JUNE 30: Long before the
government raised prices of petrol and diesel and Union Ministers
resorted to tokenisms like cutting down on foreign trips, a small
village in Maharashtra had begun walking the talk on economising
fuel consumption.

As reports of an imminent increase in oil prices began making
headlines about two months ago, the gram sabha of Hiwre Bazaar in
Ahmednagar district, about 300 km from Mumbai and home to about
1,300 people, passed a resolution urging residents not to use motor
vehicles within the village and encouraged pooling automobiles and
the use of bicycles.

Although the impact may seem like a drop in the global fuel ocean,
it is nevertheless bringing some cheer to the villagers. Hiwre
Bazaar is heading towards saving about 100 litres of petrol everyday
and many villagers who have aggressively adopted the resolution
claim they have cut their fuel expenses by 50 per cent.

"Our village has always been thinking ahead of its time," says
sarpanch Popatrao Pawar, the brain behind an idea economists and
finance ministers would heartily endorse. "According our estimates,
we plan to save 100 litres of petrol everyday by pooling and
switching to bicycles. People here go far for work and most of them
have vehicles. So by better co-ordination and pooling, enough fuel
can be saved."

Residents of the village are quick to point out that their
economising is not forced by poverty or their inability to afford
petrol and diesel. The largely farming village of 236 families has
307 vehicles — 268 motorbikes, 22 four-wheelers and 17 tractors. In
fact, 25 per cent of the families are millionaires, they add.

Rajendra Pawar, 36, one of four tempo-owners in the village, says
that in the past each one would go to Ahmednagar, 16 km away,
separately to sell vegetables. "At that time, the profit used to get
divided between us. But now each one takes turns going to the city.
This not only saves our diesel and transportation cost but has also
increased our profits.

Now, we use our tempos for some other purpose on a lean day," he
said.

Rajendra Thumbe and Rajendra Sumbe, both teachers at Nimga Waga
village, 16 km from Hiwre Bazaar, give rides to each other on their
motorbikes every week "after proper co-ordination". "We save Rs 300
every month over fuel which otherwise used to cost us Rs 600," said
Thumbe.

Raosaheb Ranoji Pawar (82), who bought the first motorbike in the
village in 1970, but now rides a bicycle, has a different take on
the resolution. "It is much healthier to ride a bicycle than a
motorbike. These young boys get exhausted after cycling and all due
to their habits," he said.

While neighbouring villages and government agencies are amazed by
the move, it is just the latest in a series of progressive steps for
residents of Hiwre Bazaar. When the village was drought-hit years
ago, residents took to water harvesting and also started to protect
the forests around it, winning accolades and drawing the attention
of national and international agencies which came to study their
success.

Villagers now farm through the year due to abundance of water. In
2000, the village passed a resolution making HIV tests mandatory
before marriage. It also passed a resolution preventing land sale to
outsiders. Village resolutions, including the one on fuel
consumption, are rarely violated as residents say they are close-
knit community.

"Our village has always been an example for others," says sarpanch
Pawar, a masters in commerce from Pune University and a cricketer,
who chose to return to Hiwre Bazaar after his education in 1985. "We
don't want to claim that we are doing anything great, but if a small
village can do this, and if others can at least follow our model, we
can save enough of our foreign currency used for buying fuel."
www.indianexpress.com/story/329716.html

"Basic thing in natural farming is zero tillage."

Greetings, Raju,
Would you consider loosely digging/ turning soil with a shovel or spading fork
to be tilling?  Thanks for your response.

kind regards,

jake
www.grandprairiefood.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear friend,
Digging,tilling,plowing is unnecessary and very harmful to the ecology
of land. If land is covered by green or dry mulch it is become porous
by the activity of so many insects,animals. Tilled fine soil chokes
porosity of the land is do not allow  rain water to go in side it
flows and washes top soil (fertility).
Raju

On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:31 PM, JSENT <wegrow4@...> wrote:
> "Basic thing in natural farming is zero tillage."
>
> Greetings, Raju,
> Would you consider loosely digging/ turning soil with a shovel or spading
> fork to be tilling?  Thanks for your response.
>
> kind regards,
>
> jake
> www.grandprairiefood.com
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Hello,
 
Solar / Wind Charging of Battery operated vehicle is good option in future for
the farm sector.
All the existing vehicles can be converted to battery operated vehicles by
replacing the engine with electric motor and adding sufficient batteries.
This is very good option for local operation, short distance (100 km in one
charge).
Even battery operated small tractors is good options.
 
Madhav


--- On Tue, 1/7/08, parmbir <parm1245@...> wrote:

From: parmbir <parm1245@...>
Subject: [fukuoka_farming] As oil prices surge, a village cycles and car-pools
the way out
To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, 1 July, 2008, 6:19 PM








HIWRE BAZAAR (MAHARASHTRA) INDIA, JUNE 30: Long before the
government raised prices of petrol and diesel and Union Ministers
resorted to tokenisms like cutting down on foreign trips, a small
village in Maharashtra had begun walking the talk on economising
fuel consumption.

As reports of an imminent increase in oil prices began making
headlines about two months ago, the gram sabha of Hiwre Bazaar in
Ahmednagar district, about 300 km from Mumbai and home to about
1,300 people, passed a resolution urging residents not to use motor
vehicles within the village and encouraged pooling automobiles and
the use of bicycles.

Although the impact may seem like a drop in the global fuel ocean,
it is nevertheless bringing some cheer to the villagers. Hiwre
Bazaar is heading towards saving about 100 litres of petrol everyday
and many villagers who have aggressively adopted the resolution
claim they have cut their fuel expenses by 50 per cent.

"Our village has always been thinking ahead of its time," says
sarpanch Popatrao Pawar, the brain behind an idea economists and
finance ministers would heartily endorse. "According our estimates,
we plan to save 100 litres of petrol everyday by pooling and
switching to bicycles. People here go far for work and most of them
have vehicles. So by better co-ordination and pooling, enough fuel
can be saved."

Residents of the village are quick to point out that their
economising is not forced by poverty or their inability to afford
petrol and diesel. The largely farming village of 236 families has
307 vehicles — 268 motorbikes, 22 four-wheelers and 17 tractors. In
fact, 25 per cent of the families are millionaires, they add.

Rajendra Pawar, 36, one of four tempo-owners in the village, says
that in the past each one would go to Ahmednagar, 16 km away,
separately to sell vegetables. "At that time, the profit used to get
divided between us. But now each one takes turns going to the city.
This not only saves our diesel and transportation cost but has also
increased our profits.

Now, we use our tempos for some other purpose on a lean day," he
said.

Rajendra Thumbe and Rajendra Sumbe, both teachers at Nimga Waga
village, 16 km from Hiwre Bazaar, give rides to each other on their
motorbikes every week "after proper co-ordination" . "We save Rs 300
every month over fuel which otherwise used to cost us Rs 600," said
Thumbe.

Raosaheb Ranoji Pawar (82), who bought the first motorbike in the
village in 1970, but now rides a bicycle, has a different take on
the resolution. "It is much healthier to ride a bicycle than a
motorbike. These young boys get exhausted after cycling and all due
to their habits," he said.

While neighbouring villages and government agencies are amazed by
the move, it is just the latest in a series of progressive steps for
residents of Hiwre Bazaar. When the village was drought-hit years
ago, residents took to water harvesting and also started to protect
the forests around it, winning accolades and drawing the attention
of national and international agencies which came to study their
success.

Villagers now farm through the year due to abundance of water. In
2000, the village passed a resolution making HIV tests mandatory
before marriage. It also passed a resolution preventing land sale to
outsiders. Village resolutions, including the one on fuel
consumption, are rarely violated as residents say they are close-
knit community.

"Our village has always been an example for others," says sarpanch
Pawar, a masters in commerce from Pune University and a cricketer,
who chose to return to Hiwre Bazaar after his education in 1985. "We
don't want to claim that we are doing anything great, but if a small
village can do this, and if others can at least follow our model, we
can save enough of our foreign currency used for buying fuel."
www.indianexpress. com/story/ 329716.html
















       Bollywood, fun, friendship, sports and more. You name it, we have it on
http://in.promos.yahoo.com/groups/bestofyahoo/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you don't ever till then how do you initially break up the soil to
get th eseeds in?  Do you mulch for a time to break down the grass?

Thanks,
Cyn

--- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Raju Titus" <rajuktitus@...>
wrote:
>
> Dear friend,
> Digging,tilling,plowing is unnecessary and very harmful to the ecology
> of land. If land is covered by green or dry mulch it is become porous
> by the activity of so many insects,animals. Tilled fine soil chokes
> porosity of the land is do not allow  rain water to go in side it
> flows and washes top soil (fertility).
> Raju
>
> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:31 PM, JSENT <wegrow4@...> wrote:
> > "Basic thing in natural farming is zero tillage."
> >
> > Greetings, Raju,
> > Would you consider loosely digging/ turning soil with a shovel or
spading
> > fork to be tilling?  Thanks for your response.
> >
> > kind regards,
> >
> > jake
> > www.grandprairiefood.com
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
>

Dear friends,
To understand natural way of farming one should see how seeds
germinate in nature. Most of the natural seeds germinate on the top of
the soil .The ecology of untiled ,covered soil is different.But it is
true that naked seeds are generally eaten by rats,birds,insects. Seed
balls,mulch,sowing in line,dibbling are few do nothing methods which
helps in sowing.
   Green cover of grass is helpful we scattered directly seeds in the
cover of grass and after germination we cut back and  mulch loosely it
in the same place.
Raju

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 1:28 AM, mypovertymountain
<fullcircleherbs@...> wrote:
> If you don't ever till then how do you initially break up the soil to
> get th eseeds in? Do you mulch for a time to break down the grass?
>
> Thanks,
> Cyn
>
> --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Raju Titus" <rajuktitus@...>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Dear friend,
>> Digging,tilling,plowing is unnecessary and very harmful to the ecology
>> of land. If land is covered by green or dry mulch it is become porous
>> by the activity of so many insects,animals. Tilled fine soil chokes
>> porosity of the land is do not allow rain water to go in side it
>> flows and washes top soil (fertility).
>> Raju
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:31 PM, JSENT <wegrow4@...> wrote:
>> > "Basic thing in natural farming is zero tillage."
>> >
>> > Greetings, Raju,
>> > Would you consider loosely digging/ turning soil with a shovel or
> spading
>> > fork to be tilling? Thanks for your response.
>> >
>> > kind regards,
>> >
>> > jake
>> > www.grandprairiefood.com
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>

Dear All, as Raju Titus says, seeds in nature generally germinate on the
surface - I´m watching the winter wheat right now as the root sinks into the
soil and the first leaf travels up toward the light.

I´ve tried seeding directly into pasture, cutting the pasture to the ground
first, with little success, even wrapping the seeds in clay. So, I have
thought it necessary to disturb the soil in some way first to weaken the
vegetation to allow the weaker (because more developed for particular
characteristics) vegetable seeds to get a head start. But all the cycles of
life in the soil that are destroyed, the untold billions of micro- and
macro-organisms that die as a result seems too heavy a price to pay.

So I´d like to suggest that if you have some grassland you wish to turn over
to vegetables then the best way is to ensure that no seeds of the current
years plants are allowed to set seed and instead, at the best moment for
each plant you wish to seed, you cut back the grasses and wild herbs and
seed large amounts of what you wish to grow (seedballing would reduce the
amount of seeds you might need but takes extra time to do). Therefore with
the no new seeds of the wild plants on the surface, and the vegetation cut
back to the ground, the seeds you cast will have a chance to grow. Depending
on the size and type of seed you´re using you might be able to spread the
cut vegetation over your seeds, this helps protect them from birds and helps
retain moisture, accelerating their germination.

These are just some thoughts from my own observations, I offer them as
suggestions and not as definitive answers, indeed Natural Farming will never
be the same in every place and Fukuoka´s work is an inspiration and not a
template, I think we sometimes forget that.

Good Luck

Jamie
Mas Franch

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 7:29 AM, Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...> wrote:

>   Dear friends,
> To understand natural way of farming one should see how seeds
> germinate in nature. Most of the natural seeds germinate on the top of
> the soil .The ecology of untiled ,covered soil is different.But it is
> true that naked seeds are generally eaten by rats,birds,insects. Seed
> balls,mulch,sowing in line,dibbling are few do nothing methods which
> helps in sowing.
> Green cover of grass is helpful we scattered directly seeds in the
> cover of grass and after germination we cut back and mulch loosely it
> in the same place.
> Raju
>
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 1:28 AM, mypovertymountain
> <fullcircleherbs@... <fullcircleherbs%40gmail.com>> wrote:
> > If you don't ever till then how do you initially break up the soil to
> > get th eseeds in? Do you mulch for a time to break down the grass?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Cyn
> >
> > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com<fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "Raju Titus" <rajuktitus@...>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Dear friend,
> >> Digging,tilling,plowing is unnecessary and very harmful to the ecology
> >> of land. If land is covered by green or dry mulch it is become porous
> >> by the activity of so many insects,animals. Tilled fine soil chokes
> >> porosity of the land is do not allow rain water to go in side it
> >> flows and washes top soil (fertility).
> >> Raju
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:31 PM, JSENT <wegrow4@...> wrote:
> >> > "Basic thing in natural farming is zero tillage."
> >> >
> >> > Greetings, Raju,
> >> > Would you consider loosely digging/ turning soil with a shovel or
> > spading
> >> > fork to be tilling? Thanks for your response.
> >> >
> >> > kind regards,
> >> >
> >> > jake
> >> > www.grandprairiefood.com
> >> >
> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Raju Titus" <rajuktitus@...>
wrote:
>
> Dear friends,
> To understand natural way of farming one should see how seeds
> germinate in nature. Most of the natural seeds germinate on the top of
> the soil .The ecology of untiled ,covered soil is different.But it is
> true that naked seeds are generally eaten by rats,birds,insects. Seed
> balls,mulch,sowing in line,dibbling are few do nothing methods which
> helps in sowing.
>   Green cover of grass is helpful we scattered directly seeds in the
> cover of grass and after germination we cut back and  mulch loosely it
> in the same place.
> Raju
>
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 1:28 AM, mypovertymountain
> <fullcircleherbs@...> wrote:
> > If you don't ever till then how do you initially break up the soil to
> > get th eseeds in? Do you mulch for a time to break down the grass?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Cyn
> >
> > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Raju Titus" <rajuktitus@>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Dear friend,
> >> Digging,tilling,plowing is unnecessary and very harmful to the
ecology
> >> of land. If land is covered by green or dry mulch it is become porous
> >> by the activity of so many insects,animals. Tilled fine soil chokes
> >> porosity of the land is do not allow rain water to go in side it
> >> flows and washes top soil (fertility).
> >> Raju
> >>
> >> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:31 PM, JSENT <wegrow4@> wrote:
> >> > "Basic thing in natural farming is zero tillage."
> >> >
> >> > Greetings, Raju,
> >> > Would you consider loosely digging/ turning soil with a shovel or
> > spading
> >> > fork to be tilling? Thanks for your response.
> >> >
> >> > kind regards,
> >> >
> >> > jake
> >> > www.grandprairiefood.com
> >> >
> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
>


Dynamic accumulators with deep taproots (like carrots, dock, and
comfrey) will break up soils over time more effectively than metal
tools and they improve the soil at the same time by bringing nutrients
from the subsoil.

-Benjamin

this is an interesting thread. my husband would like to grow some amaranth
in an old haying field that has been uncut for over 40 years. We would
like to do it without tilling the ground. by the end of the summer it is
mostly goldden rod. I am wondering if anyone here has experience with
amaranth. it sounds lik we could simply keep an area mowed and sow seeds
into the grass. we've read however that amaranth is not very competitive
when it's small.

-lucia

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008, Jamie Nicol wrote:

> Dear All, as Raju Titus says, seeds in nature generally germinate on the
> surface - I´m watching the winter wheat right now as the root sinks into the
> soil and the first leaf travels up toward the light.
>
> I´ve tried seeding directly into pasture, cutting the pasture to the ground
> first, with little success, even wrapping the seeds in clay. So, I have
> thought it necessary to disturb the soil in some way first to weaken the
> vegetation to allow the weaker (because more developed for particular
> characteristics) vegetable seeds to get a head start. But all the cycles of
> life in the soil that are destroyed, the untold billions of micro- and
> macro-organisms that die as a result seems too heavy a price to pay.
>
> So I´d like to suggest that if you have some grassland you wish to turn over
> to vegetables then the best way is to ensure that no seeds of the current
> years plants are allowed to set seed and instead, at the best moment for
> each plant you wish to seed, you cut back the grasses and wild herbs and
> seed large amounts of what you wish to grow (seedballing would reduce the
> amount of seeds you might need but takes extra time to do). Therefore with
> the no new seeds of the wild plants on the surface, and the vegetation cut
> back to the ground, the seeds you cast will have a chance to grow. Depending
> on the size and type of seed you´re using you might be able to spread the
> cut vegetation over your seeds, this helps protect them from birds and helps
> retain moisture, accelerating their germination.
>
> These are just some thoughts from my own observations, I offer them as
> suggestions and not as definitive answers, indeed Natural Farming will never
> be the same in every place and Fukuoka´s work is an inspiration and not a
> template, I think we sometimes forget that.
>
> Good Luck
>
> Jamie
> Mas Franch
>
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 7:29 AM, Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
>
> >   Dear friends,
> > To understand natural way of farming one should see how seeds
> > germinate in nature. Most of the natural seeds germinate on the top of
> > the soil .The ecology of untiled ,covered soil is different.But it is
> > true that naked seeds are generally eaten by rats,birds,insects. Seed
> > balls,mulch,sowing in line,dibbling are few do nothing methods which
> > helps in sowing.
> > Green cover of grass is helpful we scattered directly seeds in the
> > cover of grass and after germination we cut back and mulch loosely it
> > in the same place.
> > Raju
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 1:28 AM, mypovertymountain
> > <fullcircleherbs@... <fullcircleherbs%40gmail.com>> wrote:
> > > If you don't ever till then how do you initially break up the soil to
> > > get th eseeds in? Do you mulch for a time to break down the grass?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Cyn
> > >
> > > --- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com<fukuoka_farming%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "Raju Titus" <rajuktitus@...>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Dear friend,
> > >> Digging,tilling,plowing is unnecessary and very harmful to the ecology
> > >> of land. If land is covered by green or dry mulch it is become porous
> > >> by the activity of so many insects,animals. Tilled fine soil chokes
> > >> porosity of the land is do not allow rain water to go in side it
> > >> flows and washes top soil (fertility).
> > >> Raju
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:31 PM, JSENT <wegrow4@...> wrote:
> > >> > "Basic thing in natural farming is zero tillage."
> > >> >
> > >> > Greetings, Raju,
> > >> > Would you consider loosely digging/ turning soil with a shovel or
> > > spading
> > >> > fork to be tilling? Thanks for your response.
> > >> >
> > >> > kind regards,
> > >> >
> > >> > jake
> > >> > www.grandprairiefood.com
> > >> >
> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

--
<

Dear Raju,

Today I have scattered 2Kgs of cowpea and black gram seeds over an existing
cover of grass. I had some advices from the elders of the village that I am
wasting the seeds, it costed me around 80 rupees (2 USD).

I tried making seed balls, but it was not balls, but a light coating of soil was
there on the seeds. Even if 50% of the seeds germinate I can consider it as big
success. Only question is that without proper sunlight and without touching the
soil, if the seeds germinate.



Regards,
Nandan

--- On Thu, 7/3/08, Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
From: Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...>
Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: zero tillage
To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 10:59 AM











             Dear friends,

To understand natural way of farming one should see how seeds

germinate in nature. Most of the natural seeds germinate on the top of

the soil .The ecology of untiled ,covered soil is different.But it is

true that naked seeds are generally eaten by rats,birds,insects. Seed

balls,mulch, sowing in line,dibbling are few do nothing methods which

helps in sowing.

   Green cover of grass is helpful we scattered directly seeds in the

cover of grass and after germination we cut back and  mulch loosely it

in the same place.

Raju



On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 1:28 AM, mypovertymountain

<fullcircleherbs@ gmail.com> wrote:

> If you don't ever till then how do you initially break up the soil to

> get th eseeds in? Do you mulch for a time to break down the grass?

>

> Thanks,

> Cyn

>

> --- In fukuoka_farming@ yahoogroups. com, "Raju Titus" <rajuktitus@ ...>

> wrote:

>

>>

>> Dear friend,

>> Digging,tilling, plowing is unnecessary and very harmful to the ecology

>> of land. If land is covered by green or dry mulch it is become porous

>> by the activity of so many insects,animals. Tilled fine soil chokes

>> porosity of the land is do not allow rain water to go in side it

>> flows and washes top soil (fertility).

>> Raju

>>

>> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:31 PM, JSENT <wegrow4@... > wrote:

>> > "Basic thing in natural farming is zero tillage."

>> >

>> > Greetings, Raju,

>> > Would you consider loosely digging/ turning soil with a shovel or

> spading

>> > fork to be tilling? Thanks for your response.

>> >

>> > kind regards,

>> >

>> > jake

>> > www.grandprairiefoo d.com

>> >

>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>> >

>> >

>>

>

>



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello everyone,
                           Some news from the The Dharmahouse cohousing project.
The community has decided the present property we are living in is not big
enough for us to establish our cohousing community so are selling the present
property and are searching for a bigger property large enough to accomodate our
needs.
 
If anyone knows of anyone that would be interested in buying our beautiful place
here then please pass on our link!
 
http://www.thedharmahouse.com/forSale.htm
 
Similarly if anyone knows of any large interesting properties in France, Spain
or Portugal that could house or provide planning permission for 10 seperate
dwellings please let us know! 
 
Please send all enquiries to naturescenter@...
 
With thanks from the Dharmahouse Sangha



       __________________________________________________________
Not happy with your email address?.
Get the one you really want - millions of new email addresses available now at
Yahoo! http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/ymail/new.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Nandan,
Seeds of legumes germinate in the grass cover without sun light but
sufficient moisture is required. But after germination  small
seedlings will not come out without sun light in this stage cut grass
and spread over germinating seeds.
Raju

On Sat, Jul 5, 2008 at 10:57 PM, Nandan Palaparambil
<p_k_nandanan@...> wrote:
> Dear Raju,
>
> Today I have scattered 2Kgs of cowpea and black gram seeds over an existing
> cover of grass. I had some advices from the elders of the village that I am
> wasting the seeds, it costed me around 80 rupees (2 USD).
>
> I tried making seed balls, but it was not balls, but a light coating of soil
> was there on the seeds. Even if 50% of the seeds germinate I can consider it
> as big success. Only question is that without proper sunlight and without
> touching the soil, if the seeds germinate.
>
> Regards,
> Nandan
>
> --- On Thu, 7/3/08, Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
> From: Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...>
> Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: zero tillage
> To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 10:59 AM
>
> Dear friends,
>
> To understand natural way of farming one should see how seeds
>
> germinate in nature. Most of the natural seeds germinate on the top of
>
> the soil .The ecology of untiled ,covered soil is different.But it is
>
> true that naked seeds are generally eaten by rats,birds,insects. Seed
>
> balls,mulch, sowing in line,dibbling are few do nothing methods which
>
> helps in sowing.
>
> Green cover of grass is helpful we scattered directly seeds in the
>
> cover of grass and after germination we cut back and mulch loosely it
>
> in the same place.
>
> Raju
>
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 1:28 AM, mypovertymountain
>
> <fullcircleherbs@ gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> If you don't ever till then how do you initially break up the soil to
>
>> get th eseeds in? Do you mulch for a time to break down the grass?
>
>>
>
>> Thanks,
>
>> Cyn
>
>>
>
>> --- In fukuoka_farming@ yahoogroups. com, "Raju Titus" <rajuktitus@ ...>
>
>> wrote:
>
>>
>
>>>
>
>>> Dear friend,
>
>>> Digging,tilling, plowing is unnecessary and very harmful to the ecology
>
>>> of land. If land is covered by green or dry mulch it is become porous
>
>>> by the activity of so many insects,animals. Tilled fine soil chokes
>
>>> porosity of the land is do not allow rain water to go in side it
>
>>> flows and washes top soil (fertility).
>
>>> Raju
>
>>>
>
>>> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:31 PM, JSENT <wegrow4@... > wrote:
>
>>> > "Basic thing in natural farming is zero tillage."
>
>>> >
>
>>> > Greetings, Raju,
>
>>> > Would you consider loosely digging/ turning soil with a shovel or
>
>> spading
>
>>> > fork to be tilling? Thanks for your response.
>
>>> >
>
>>> > kind regards,
>
>>> >
>
>>> > jake
>
>>> > www.grandprairiefoo d.com
>
>>> >
>
>>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>>> >
>
>>> >
>
>>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

Dear Raju,

Thanks for this really valuable input. I will follow this method and will get
back with the results soon.

I am doing this farm management sitting at a distance of 500KMs. But I could
broadcast the seeds myself when I visited the place. I have asked the person who
works in the farm to follow this method, but we have to wait and see how he
manages that.


Regards,
Nandan


--- On Sun, 7/6/08, Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...> wrote:
From: Raju Titus <rajuktitus@...>
Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: zero tillage
To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 10:20 AM











             Dear Nandan,

Seeds of legumes germinate in the grass cover without sun light but

sufficient moisture is required. But after germination  small

seedlings will not come out without sun light in this stage cut grass

and spread over germinating seeds.

Raju


 




















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Entire shocking story is at the above URL. Please share it with your
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____________________

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Body Care Products! Time to Dump Your Shares?

Seeds dont need to touch soil to germinate.  Here in the U.S. in grammar school
the first science projects they do is beans in a paper towel.  The bean or Grass
seed sprouts and sends out a taproot right through the papertowel.  They put a
papertowel in a cup or a jar.  They then wet it and place a seed in the cup,
between the paper towel.  The paper towel gives the seed moisture as well as
regulate humidity which all seeds have to have in order to sprout.



----- Original Message ----
From: Nandan Palaparambil <p_k_nandanan@...>
To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 5, 2008 1:27:43 PM
Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: zero tillage


Dear Raju,

Today I have scattered 2Kgs of cowpea and black gram seeds over an existing
cover of grass. I had some advices from the elders of the village that I am
wasting the seeds, it costed me around 80 rupees (2 USD).

I tried making seed balls, but it was not balls, but a light coating of soil was
there on the seeds. Even if 50% of the seeds germinate I can consider it as big
success. Only question is that without proper sunlight and without touching the
soil, if the seeds germinate.

Regards,
Nandan

--- On Thu, 7/3/08, Raju Titus <rajuktitus@gmail. com> wrote:
From: Raju Titus <rajuktitus@gmail. com>
Subject: Re: [fukuoka_farming] Re: zero tillage
To: fukuoka_farming@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, July 3, 2008, 10:59 AM

Dear friends,

To understand natural way of farming one should see how seeds

germinate in nature. Most of the natural seeds germinate on the top of

the soil .The ecology of untiled ,covered soil is different.But it is

true that naked seeds are generally eaten by rats,birds,insects. Seed

balls,mulch, sowing in line,dibbling are few do nothing methods which

helps in sowing.

Green cover of grass is helpful we scattered directly seeds in the

cover of grass and after germination we cut back and mulch loosely it

in the same place.

Raju

On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 1:28 AM, mypovertymountain

<fullcircleherbs@ gmail.com> wrote:

> If you don't ever till then how do you initially break up the soil to

> get th eseeds in? Do you mulch for a time to break down the grass?

>

> Thanks,

> Cyn

>

> --- In fukuoka_farming@ yahoogroups. com, "Raju Titus" <rajuktitus@ ...>

> wrote:

>

>>

>> Dear friend,

>> Digging,tilling, plowing is unnecessary and very harmful to the ecology

>> of land. If land is covered by green or dry mulch it is become porous

>> by the activity of so many insects,animals. Tilled fine soil chokes

>> porosity of the land is do not allow rain water to go in side it

>> flows and washes top soil (fertility).

>> Raju

>>

>> On Tue, Jul 1, 2008 at 9:31 PM, JSENT <wegrow4@... > wrote:

>> > "Basic thing in natural farming is zero tillage."

>> >

>> > Greetings, Raju,

>> > Would you consider loosely digging/ turning soil with a shovel or

> spading

>> > fork to be tilling? Thanks for your response.

>> >

>> > kind regards,

>> >

>> > jake

>> > www.grandprairiefoo d.com

>> >

>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>> >

>> >

>>

>

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

greetings from virginia!

well i'm doing what i can to allow a natural garden...it is a glorious
mess for sure. some observations;

***in some previous posts i described the wattle fence i made...it was
eight feet tall but deer jumped it. my husband tied string around the
top but they jumped it again. took the top foliage off the sweet
peppers and tomatoes. i took my collection of cut and bent wire
fencing "a-frames" and placed them around the outside of the wattle
fence about two and four feet out, so as to interfere with the running
start the deer have to make to clear the top of the wattle fence. so
far so good. the plants seem to have recovered somewhat and are now
producing veggies. i live in a higher elevation so my plants take
longer to get going.

***i had mixed up the seeds and threw them around anywhere,some i seed
balled and some just free. the grass grew like crazy in my garden this
spring so i had to cut and whack my way in there, planting starts as i
went, feeling around for the softest soil between the grass and weeds.
i planted my plants right where dandelions came up, trusting them to
scout out the best spots. meanwhile, i had grown some fields of hay
outside the garden fence, and used the hay to supplement the stuff i
had cut down and used as mulch inside the garden. long hay is the best
mulch you can use, keeps the weeds and grass down till you can get a
handle on things. well, some of the plants mixed but most didn't. boy,
you haven't lived till you bite into a "hot tomato" that has somehow
mixed with a hot pepper...stimulating and exotic! i was glad i had cut
the stuff down in the garden area early because right away the seeds
sprouted up through the mulch and there we go! four plants coming out
of the same hole! next year i'm having
rows in my garden!

***planted two gooseberry bushes, they are tough and vigorous,started
making berries right away, those berries are yummy! planted two
blueberries also they are a little more squeamish, one has berries but
the other has spots on it's leaves... still living though. worked on
my black raspberry patches, some were great, some had honeysuckle take
over, i had to weed those and tried to pull out the honey suckle as
much as i could. the wineberries have appeared in recent years, they
are so delectable. my brother and i went berry-picking in a park the
other day and got eight quarts of wineberries. favorite thing to do.
did i mention i love blackberries? they make an awesome hedge, too.

***the kale and mustard comes up everywhere, deer don't eat it. i do.

***was going like gangbusters in my garden, cutting every weed and
blade of grass when all of a sudden i was stung by an angry bee. what
was i doing? i was about to cut down a raspberry bush which had come
up inside my garden fence...as much as i love them (raspberries) i
don't want them in my garden, they spread too much, etc.-- but this
raspberry bush, dead center in the middle of my garden, wasn't going
anywhere; there was a hornets nest hanging from it. well, have you
ever tried to do a thorough job with one eye on a hornets nest? let's
just say i didn't weed as much after that. and the funny thing is, the
plants are doing perfectly fine without me picking at them and around
them all the time. i just bring in a load of straw, dump it in the
general vicinity and get out of there. that hornets nest is humongous
now...it's taken on the air of the great volcano goddess...but as long
as i just go get my veggies when they are ready, and give them (the
bees) as wide
a berth as i can, they mind their own business. they taught me, live
and let live--as much as you gain, much can be taken away, so respect
and tremble!

  have a great summer! talk at cha later**********robin

Hi All,

I have added two photos of dry land we are thinking to buy in
Krishnagiri,Tamilnadu,India - under the album - "Dry land -
Krishnagiri,Tamilnadu,India"

The average rainfall in this area is around 800mm and it is getting
less and this is the pattern of rain for 2006-2007,

June - Sept - 231.5mm
October-Dec - 212.6mm
Jan-Feb - 1.9mm
March- May -191.1mm

Just wanted to know if anyone has experience in doing natural farming
  in this kind of dry areas. Mango is what we primarily aim for, since
it require less water. Anyone in the list from this area?

There is a well in this land, but just enough water for drinking and
other home needs.


Regards,
Nandan

Back in 2004 I discovered organic farming.  At that time the higher
prices payed for organic produce restored my childhood hope to farm
for a living.  I then went on to discover various methods of farming
on small organic farms.  As my knowledge progressed, I began to
desire to farm with less and less technology, or farm equipment.

My first plans were to farm with a small used tractor and used
implements.  Then, in December of 2005 in an issue of American Small
Farm I read an article about how one man still farmed with horses.
He was also a professor, and explained the economics of horse
farming, and all of the numerous benefits.  I was excited to discover
that it was still profitable and functional, especially since I had a
background of breaking colts.  I felt like I could combine my love
for horses with a passion for organic farming, and everything would
be wonderful.

Well, in the coming months I subsicribed to a journal and a magazine
about farming with horses and oxen.  I learned a bit more and was
further encouraged.  Then, during the spring of 2006 while digging on
the internet for more organic farming information I read about
permaculture and no till gardening.  Also, that spring in an issue of
Acres USA I seen one of Masanobu Fukuoka's books the One Straw
Revolution mentioned.  The title of the book and a few words
describing it stayed on my memmory.  In the spring of 2007 I
purchased the book.  I was taken away by the wisdom in Fukuoka's
methods, and his devotion for being in harmony with nature.  At that
point I changed my mind about wanting to farm with animals and till
up the land.

Since then I've been working an average of 60 hours a week in order
to save money to purchase farmland.  In about a years time I have
managed to save thousands.  Not hundreds of thousands, but tens of
thousands, thanks to a career opportunity in construction.

Nevertheless, this is certainly not a career that I want to spend my
life in.  I am still working towards my goal of farming for a living.

I do have some concerns though.  My biggest concern is whether or not
I will be able to earn a sufficient income to meet my needs.  Now, I
am aware that a living a life of natural farming is more than just
farming techniques, but a way of life that is more natural and
simplified.  I welcome the idea of further simplifying my life, and
I am interested in voluntary simplicity.  I currently live debt free,
and TV free, but the rest of my life is that of a typical "tight"
spend-thrift american.  The problem arises for me when I consider the
fact that I would like to provide finacially for a spouse.  I'm
currently single, and have no prospect, but I do worry about this.  I
also worry that I will not be able to find a spouse that would be
happy living a life of great simplicity.

I can see that living without electricity and living car-free would
drastically reduce my expenses, but what about transporting my
produce to the market?  What about my social needs (though I'm a bit
of an introvert), and what about the desires of a potential spouse?

I'm beggining to question at this point whether or not I must choose
between a life of natural farming, and providing financially for a
life partner.  Choosing to live off-the-grid is not tough for me, but
choosing to live without solar panels, a laptop, a cell phone, and a
fridge is tough for me.  I know that I can do without these things if
I must, but will I meet a woman in America that desires to live such
a life?  Then, there's living car-free, transporting produce, and so
on.

I guess that I'm asking for some direction, and a bit of
encouragement.

I also need some hands-on experience with natural forming before I'm
able to even subsist on it?

Which brings up a good point.  Should I only expect/desire to live at
a subsitance level, and not trasport produce?  I see the benefits in
living such a life, but I fear being lonely and disconnected from my
relatives.

I've considered joining a commune in order to meet my social needs,
but I feel that I will be limited in the amount of choices that I
will be able to make concerning the layout of the farm, and so on.
Maybe I'm being a bit selfish in that respect, and should see that
some trade-off must exist in order to share my life with others.

Back to the hands-on experience.  I do need to learn.  I have some
knowledge about plants and the soil, and a bit of experience with
livestock, but when it comes to real natural farming, I do not have
any experience.  Aside from my fears concerning financial issues, I
know that I do not "yet" have enough knowledge and experience to
natural farm at even a subsistence level with any certainty.

Any advice would be much appreciated, even though some of my
questions go beyond the realm of natural farming in some ways.

Your dream is the same as mine friend! Have you ever heard of polyface farm?
Check out the articles written by Joel Salatin on this page. He is a fulltime
farmer and holds a bachelors in english, his articles are very inspiring and so
is his vision (he regularly publishes in the national journal of sustainable
agriculture of USA).
http://www.permacultureactivist.net/articles/articles.htm
They could give you some more ideas. His farm has three generations living and
working on it and they are very prosperous in that they live well while
respecting and benefiting the land, and animals around them. He also offers paid
apprenticeships.
His methods of animal husbandry are as amazing as Fukuoka's notill methods
especially since he shows a present day american example of a thriving business
as well as what I would call a natural farm. Spend some time reading his
articles (also check out michael pollans book the "omnivores dilemma", many
chapters are about this farm) and you will see what I mean. You will make it.

--- On Wed, 7/16/08, Lee <plain_farmer@...> wrote:
From: Lee <plain_farmer@...>
Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Natural Farming for a Living
To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 5:31 AM











             Back in 2004 I discovered organic farming.  At that time the higher

prices payed for organic produce restored my childhood hope to farm

for a living.  I then went on to discover various methods of farming

on small organic farms.  As my knowledge progressed, I began to

desire to farm with less and less technology, or farm equipment.



My first plans were to farm with a small used tractor and used

implements.  Then, in December of 2005 in an issue of American Small

Farm I read an article about how one man still farmed with horses.

He was also a professor, and explained the economics of horse

farming, and all of the numerous benefits.  I was excited to discover

that it was still profitable and functional, especially since I had a

background of breaking colts.  I felt like I could combine my love

for horses with a passion for organic farming, and everything would

be wonderful.



Well, in the coming months I subsicribed to a journal and a magazine

about farming with horses and oxen.  I learned a bit more and was

further encouraged.  Then, during the spring of 2006 while digging on

the internet for more organic farming information I read about

permaculture and no till gardening.  Also, that spring in an issue of

Acres USA I seen one of Masanobu Fukuoka's books the One Straw

Revolution mentioned.  The title of the book and a few words

describing it stayed on my memmory.  In the spring of 2007 I

purchased the book.  I was taken away by the wisdom in Fukuoka's

methods, and his devotion for being in harmony with nature.  At that

point I changed my mind about wanting to farm with animals and till

up the land.



Since then I've been working an average of 60 hours a week in order

to save money to purchase farmland.  In about a years time I have

managed to save thousands.  Not hundreds of thousands, but tens of

thousands, thanks to a career opportunity in construction.



Nevertheless, this is certainly not a career that I want to spend my

life in.  I am still working towards my goal of farming for a living.



I do have some concerns though.  My biggest concern is whether or not

I will be able to earn a sufficient income to meet my needs.  Now, I

am aware that a living a life of natural farming is more than just

farming techniques, but a way of life that is more natural and

simplified.  I welcome the idea of further simplifying my life, and

I am interested in voluntary simplicity.  I currently live debt free,

and TV free, but the rest of my life is that of a typical "tight"

spend-thrift american.  The problem arises for me when I consider the

fact that I would like to provide finacially for a spouse.  I'm

currently single, and have no prospect, but I do worry about this.  I

also worry that I will not be able to find a spouse that would be

happy living a life of great simplicity.



I can see that living without electricity and living car-free would

drastically reduce my expenses, but what about transporting my

produce to the market?  What about my social needs (though I'm a bit

of an introvert), and what about the desires of a potential spouse?



I'm beggining to question at this point whether or not I must choose

between a life of natural farming, and providing financially for a

life partner.  Choosing to live off-the-grid is not tough for me, but

choosing to live without solar panels, a laptop, a cell phone, and a

fridge is tough for me.  I know that I can do without these things if

I must, but will I meet a woman in America that desires to live such

a life?  Then, there's living car-free, transporting produce, and so

on.



I guess that I'm asking for some direction, and a bit of

encouragement.



I also need some hands-on experience with natural forming before I'm

able to even subsist on it?



Which brings up a good point.  Should I only expect/desire to live at

a subsitance level, and not trasport produce?  I see the benefits in

living such a life, but I fear being lonely and disconnected from my

relatives.



I've considered joining a commune in order to meet my social needs,

but I feel that I will be limited in the amount of choices that I

will be able to make concerning the layout of the farm, and so on.

Maybe I'm being a bit selfish in that respect, and should see that

some trade-off must exist in order to share my life with others.



Back to the hands-on experience.  I do need to learn.  I have some

knowledge about plants and the soil, and a bit of experience with

livestock, but when it comes to real natural farming, I do not have

any experience.  Aside from my fears concerning financial issues, I

know that I do not "yet" have enough knowledge and experience to

natural farm at even a subsistence level with any certainty.



Any advice would be much appreciated, even though some of my

questions go beyond the realm of natural farming in some ways.





























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Lee,



First up - I chose a man who can give me pretty much whatever we need in
terms of comfort - but he can't be happy with the simplicity I crave meaning
there is a constant 'gap' in our relationship. We are looking forward to the
future where we may meet - where he feels financially secure enough to
simplify - isn't that concept strange...  Trust me, find yourself a partner
that will be happy with, indeed craves, the simple life. Believe me, there
are some of us out there...



Don't try and go all out in one go, keep the laptop and keep connected
online with people like us. If you grow excess and sell at a local market
you will also stay connected that way. It doesn't take a lot. I have started
making a pesto with native spinach that grows like a weed (perfect for
natural farming) and my local connections are slowly but surely growing with
it. I am still in the money economy but by the time that collapses I feel
comfortable that I will have a lot more connections in the community to
support my family through it - AND I can pay the lease on the land this way!



This statement is heresy on this list but you may feel more comfortable
starting from a permaculture perspective. There is a large social network in
permaculture and it encompasses many of Natural Farmings ideals - no
chemicals, working with nature, using handtools instead of powertools -
subsistence living to a large extent. But it also acknowledges our current
cultural environment and the need to 'Obtain a Yield' (one of the 12
principles of permaculture) so that you can survive in this world. For me,
the pesto is my yield, then as people are opened to the idea of using the
native spinach, just the leaves will be and then ... we'll see. Permaculture
also shows lots of options for heating, cooling etc outside the usual realm
so there is a raft of self education you can do in the meantime. I think
Toby Hemingway's book Gaia's Garden seems to be the preferred one in the US
as a starting point - it should be in the local library.



Go for your goal. I believe you need a social network and online may not be
enough. Search out the area you want to buy land in and see if you can
connect with people in the community by attending farmers markets and
similar events. Talk to the locals - you will then find out if the community
suits you before spending all your money on the land.



Good luck and all the best, Linda





From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lee
Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2008 1:31 PM
To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Natural Farming for a Living



Back in 2004 I discovered organic farming. At that time the higher
prices payed for organic produce restored my childhood hope to farm
for a living. I then went on to discover various methods of farming
on small organic farms. As my knowledge progressed, I began to
desire to farm with less and less technology, or farm equipment.

My first plans were to farm with a small used tractor and used
implements. Then, in December of 2005 in an issue of American Small
Farm I read an article about how one man still farmed with horses.
He was also a professor, and explained the economics of horse
farming, and all of the numerous benefits. I was excited to discover
that it was still profitable and functional, especially since I had a
background of breaking colts. I felt like I could combine my love
for horses with a passion for organic farming, and everything would
be wonderful.

Well, in the coming months I subsicribed to a journal and a magazine
about farming with horses and oxen. I learned a bit more and was
further encouraged. Then, during the spring of 2006 while digging on
the internet for more organic farming information I read about
permaculture and no till gardening. Also, that spring in an issue of
Acres USA I seen one of Masanobu Fukuoka's books the One Straw
Revolution mentioned. The title of the book and a few words
describing it stayed on my memmory. In the spring of 2007 I
purchased the book. I was taken away by the wisdom in Fukuoka's
methods, and his devotion for being in harmony with nature. At that
point I changed my mind about wanting to farm with animals and till
up the land.

Since then I've been working an average of 60 hours a week in order
to save money to purchase farmland. In about a years time I have
managed to save thousands. Not hundreds of thousands, but tens of
thousands, thanks to a career opportunity in construction.

Nevertheless, this is certainly not a career that I want to spend my
life in. I am still working towards my goal of farming for a living.

I do have some concerns though. My biggest concern is whether or not
I will be able to earn a sufficient income to meet my needs. Now, I
am aware that a living a life of natural farming is more than just
farming techniques, but a way of life that is more natural and
simplified. I welcome the idea of further simplifying my life, and
I am interested in voluntary simplicity. I currently live debt free,
and TV free, but the rest of my life is that of a typical "tight"
spend-thrift american. The problem arises for me when I consider the
fact that I would like to provide finacially for a spouse. I'm
currently single, and have no prospect, but I do worry about this. I
also worry that I will not be able to find a spouse that would be
happy living a life of great simplicity.

I can see that living without electricity and living car-free would
drastically reduce my expenses, but what about transporting my
produce to the market? What about my social needs (though I'm a bit
of an introvert), and what about the desires of a potential spouse?

I'm beggining to question at this point whether or not I must choose
between a life of natural farming, and providing financially for a
life partner. Choosing to live off-the-grid is not tough for me, but
choosing to live without solar panels, a laptop, a cell phone, and a
fridge is tough for me. I know that I can do without these things if
I must, but will I meet a woman in America that desires to live such
a life? Then, there's living car-free, transporting produce, and so
on.

I guess that I'm asking for some direction, and a bit of
encouragement.

I also need some hands-on experience with natural forming before I'm
able to even subsist on it?

Which brings up a good point. Should I only expect/desire to live at
a subsitance level, and not trasport produce? I see the benefits in
living such a life, but I fear being lonely and disconnected from my
relatives.

I've considered joining a commune in order to meet my social needs,
but I feel that I will be limited in the amount of choices that I
will be able to make concerning the layout of the farm, and so on.
Maybe I'm being a bit selfish in that respect, and should see that
some trade-off must exist in order to share my life with others.

Back to the hands-on experience. I do need to learn. I have some
knowledge about plants and the soil, and a bit of experience with
livestock, but when it comes to real natural farming, I do not have
any experience. Aside from my fears concerning financial issues, I
know that I do not "yet" have enough knowledge and experience to
natural farm at even a subsistence level with any certainty.

Any advice would be much appreciated, even though some of my
questions go beyond the realm of natural farming in some ways.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Howdy,
Our stories are very similar.  I too went low-tech, although I still turn the
ground for some crops (but with hand tools).  In 2004 after really realizing
tomorrow was guaranteed to no one, I decided to stop waiting for conditions to
be right to farm and just started with what little land I had, some hand tools
and little seed.  In 2005 I started going to market, then in 2006 I rented a
little more land, when that didn't work out some land found me.   Been expanding
the garden each year since.

As energy and food prices continue to rise the local producer will be more and
more important.  I would love to develop local market for my goods but here in
the heart of cropland, the word organic gets you sneers more than cheers so I
take mine to the nearest city.  Also,  the locals take garden produce for
granted and expect it to be very cheap, ie I have gotten sneers for asking $1 /
lb. for beans at a local market but in Bloomington 30 miles away I sell out at
$4/ lb.  If you give up the idea of making a "living" by western standards
(sounds like you are well on your way to that anyway) you can make a go of it.  
It is very rewarding even if you made nothing at it.  Btw, I do keep a "day job"
selling things online.  I would like to give up the vehicles and the internet
soon.  A bit of conditioning (and excuses) to overcome.  Trying times ahead may
make the decision for us all. 

I was also frustrated with meeting someone who wanted to live simply, I was
convinced I was going to have to join the amish or go to the "3rd world".  I
joined greensingles.com and have met many people wanting to live simply.  I
would caution against finding someone who is not living the simple life but
"wants to".  Once the novelty of it wears off, homesteading requires hard work,
self drive and dedication.  Not everyone is up to it. 

Much to be said for and against intentional communities.  More I could add but I
have to go gather some mulch before the heat of the day.

cheers, jake

www.grandprairiefood.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Lee,

This is indeed a bold step..

Even I dream of quitting my current job and live a life based on farming, but
there are too many dependables. Kids education, social issues, convincing
family/relatives .. so I am planning for an intermediate solution after a period
of 5 years.

Wish you all the best and hope that you find a spouse soon.



Regards,
Nandan

--- On Wed, 7/16/08, Lee <plain_farmer@...> wrote:
From: Lee <plain_farmer@...>
Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Natural Farming for a Living
To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 9:01 AM











             Back in 2004 I discovered organic farming.  At that time the higher

prices payed for organic produce restored my childhood hope to farm

f





















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Linda and Kiko, I would like to thank both of you for
replying to my post.  I would also like to thank anyone else that
read my long thread.  Yes, it is too long, sorry.

Kiko, thanks for mentioning Joel Salatin.  I've actually read one of
his books, pastured poultry.  I also have his other books saved on my
wishlist.  I'm also glad to hear from a guy that has the same dream.

Linda, thanks for reminding me of the importance of waiting for a
mate that has the same ideals concerning money and material things.
You are right.   I've been aware of the importance of this, but I've
considered waivering and weakening on my dreams of simplicity for a
slightly more mainstream life.  I realize that I should not do that.
I would be compromising my beliefs if I did so.  Also, I do plan to
read some books on permaculture.  I have some of Toby Hemingway's
books on my wishlist, as well as books by Bill Mollison and other
authors.  I am also interested in taking a permaculture course.  It
may be heresy here to promote permaculture, but if I remember
correctly, in One Straw Revolution Fukuoka mentioned learning how to
natural farm by going to communes in the desserts of the US that
practice permaculture.  Linda, I would also like to ad that it is
encouraging to read a reply from a woman that is interested in simple
living when I'm rarely seeing such women in my everyday life.
Basically, thanks for encouraging me that there are some women that
crave simple living.  Also, I do like your advice to begin meeting
people in the area where I plan to buy land.  I'm currently trying to
decide where I should buy.  Originally, I planned to buy land outside
of Austin, but it is quite expensive.  Another thing is that while
Austin has wonderful farmer's markets, and lots of people buying
organic, it is too urban for me there.  I feel out of place.  On the
other hand, I've spent some time in west Texas, and I do like the
slower pace of life that people live in west Texas.  Now, the far
west is a bit too dry for my plans, but I'm going to go searching
west of Forth Worth for sure.  Oh, speaking of dry climates, I
believe that I was first introduced to permaculture on the net when I
watched a video clip called Greening the Desert.  I searched the net
for regreening the desert after reading what Fukuoka wrote about
desertification, and I saw permaculture on the net for the first
time.  I do like the idea of fighting desertification.

How about more talk on subsistence farming.

--- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, "Linda Shewan"
<linda_shewan@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Lee,
>
>
>
> First up - I chose a man who can give me pretty much whatever we
need in
> terms of comfort - but he can't be happy with the simplicity I
crave meaning
> there is a constant 'gap' in our relationship. We are looking
forward to the
> future where we may meet - where he feels financially secure enough
to
> simplify - isn't that concept strange...  Trust me, find yourself a
partner
> that will be happy with, indeed craves, the simple life. Believe
me, there
> are some of us out there...
>
>
>
> Don't try and go all out in one go, keep the laptop and keep
connected
> online with people like us. If you grow excess and sell at a local
market
> you will also stay connected that way. It doesn't take a lot. I
have started
> making a pesto with native spinach that grows like a weed (perfect
for
> natural farming) and my local connections are slowly but surely
growing with
> it. I am still in the money economy but by the time that collapses
I feel
> comfortable that I will have a lot more connections in the
community to
> support my family through it - AND I can pay the lease on the land
this way!
>
>
>
> This statement is heresy on this list but you may feel more
comfortable
> starting from a permaculture perspective. There is a large social
network in
> permaculture and it encompasses many of Natural Farmings ideals - no
> chemicals, working with nature, using handtools instead of
powertools -
> subsistence living to a large extent. But it also acknowledges our
current
> cultural environment and the need to 'Obtain a Yield' (one of the 12
> principles of permaculture) so that you can survive in this world.
For me,
> the pesto is my yield, then as people are opened to the idea of
using the
> native spinach, just the leaves will be and then ... we'll see.
Permaculture
> also shows lots of options for heating, cooling etc outside the
usual realm
> so there is a raft of self education you can do in the meantime. I
think
> Toby Hemingway's book Gaia's Garden seems to be the preferred one
in the US
> as a starting point - it should be in the local library.
>
>
>
> Go for your goal. I believe you need a social network and online
may not be
> enough. Search out the area you want to buy land in and see if you
can
> connect with people in the community by attending farmers markets
and
> similar events. Talk to the locals - you will then find out if the
community
> suits you before spending all your money on the land.
>
>
>
> Good luck and all the best, Linda
>
>
>
>
>
> From: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lee
> Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2008 1:31 PM
> To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Natural Farming for a Living
>
>
>
> Back in 2004 I discovered organic farming. At that time the higher
> prices payed for organic produce restored my childhood hope to farm
> for a living. I then went on to discover various methods of farming
> on small organic farms. As my knowledge progressed, I began to
> desire to farm with less and less technology, or farm equipment.
>
> My first plans were to farm with a small used tractor and used
> implements. Then, in December of 2005 in an issue of American Small
> Farm I read an article about how one man still farmed with horses.
> He was also a professor, and explained the economics of horse
> farming, and all of the numerous benefits. I was excited to
discover
> that it was still profitable and functional, especially since I had
a
> background of breaking colts. I felt like I could combine my love
> for horses with a passion for organic farming, and everything would
> be wonderful.
>
> Well, in the coming months I subsicribed to a journal and a
magazine
> about farming with horses and oxen. I learned a bit more and was
> further encouraged. Then, during the spring of 2006 while digging
on
> the internet for more organic farming information I read about
> permaculture and no till gardening. Also, that spring in an issue
of
> Acres USA I seen one of Masanobu Fukuoka's books the One Straw
> Revolution mentioned. The title of the book and a few words
> describing it stayed on my memmory. In the spring of 2007 I
> purchased the book. I was taken away by the wisdom in Fukuoka's
> methods, and his devotion for being in harmony with nature. At that
> point I changed my mind about wanting to farm with animals and till
> up the land.
>
> Since then I've been working an average of 60 hours a week in order
> to save money to purchase farmland. In about a years time I have
> managed to save thousands. Not hundreds of thousands, but tens of
> thousands, thanks to a career opportunity in construction.
>
> Nevertheless, this is certainly not a career that I want to spend
my
> life in. I am still working towards my goal of farming for a living.
>
> I do have some concerns though. My biggest concern is whether or
not
> I will be able to earn a sufficient income to meet my needs. Now, I
> am aware that a living a life of natural farming is more than just
> farming techniques, but a way of life that is more natural and
> simplified. I welcome the idea of further simplifying my life, and
> I am interested in voluntary simplicity. I currently live debt
free,
> and TV free, but the rest of my life is that of a typical "tight"
> spend-thrift american. The problem arises for me when I consider
the
> fact that I would like to provide finacially for a spouse. I'm
> currently single, and have no prospect, but I do worry about this.
I
> also worry that I will not be able to find a spouse that would be
> happy living a life of great simplicity.
>
> I can see that living without electricity and living car-free would
> drastically reduce my expenses, but what about transporting my
> produce to the market? What about my social needs (though I'm a bit
> of an introvert), and what about the desires of a potential spouse?
>
> I'm beggining to question at this point whether or not I must
choose
> between a life of natural farming, and providing financially for a
> life partner. Choosing to live off-the-grid is not tough for me,
but
> choosing to live without solar panels, a laptop, a cell phone, and
a
> fridge is tough for me. I know that I can do without these things
if
> I must, but will I meet a woman in America that desires to live
such
> a life? Then, there's living car-free, transporting produce, and so
> on.
>
> I guess that I'm asking for some direction, and a bit of
> encouragement.
>
> I also need some hands-on experience with natural forming before
I'm
> able to even subsist on it?
>
> Which brings up a good point. Should I only expect/desire to live
at
> a subsitance level, and not trasport produce? I see the benefits in
> living such a life, but I fear being lonely and disconnected from
my
> relatives.
>
> I've considered joining a commune in order to meet my social needs,
> but I feel that I will be limited in the amount of choices that I
> will be able to make concerning the layout of the farm, and so on.
> Maybe I'm being a bit selfish in that respect, and should see that
> some trade-off must exist in order to share my life with others.
>
> Back to the hands-on experience. I do need to learn. I have some
> knowledge about plants and the soil, and a bit of experience with
> livestock, but when it comes to real natural farming, I do not have
> any experience. Aside from my fears concerning financial issues, I
> know that I do not "yet" have enough knowledge and experience to
> natural farm at even a subsistence level with any certainty.
>
> Any advice would be much appreciated, even though some of my
> questions go beyond the realm of natural farming in some ways.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

We are Quaker and simplicity is one of our core values.  But simplicity does not
necessarily mean a life of scarcity.  As we continue to perfect our farm we are
working toward never having to start an engine, but making hay for winter forage
and pushing snow in winter still require it.  We follow Natural Farming
principles--no tilling, no chemicals, no artificial soil amendments, no bare
soil, planting mutually supportive polycultures--and always asking ourselves
Fukuoka's question "how about not doing this or not doing that."  From a Systems
Thinking standpoint this means discovering what element has been removed from
the natural system that is requiring my labor and attention to replace it, and
finding a manageable way to reintroduce that natural element and eliminate my
work.  The particular practices of Natural Farming change with the geographic
and ecological setting of course, but that is what makes it fun, discovering how
to apply them to our
  particular situation.  But we earn a living.  We will send our kids to college.
We have phones, and a car, and wireless access.  In fact my work has led me to
believe that unless I can demonstrate to my neighbors that this is a life of
abundance rather than one of scarcity they will be much less inclined to
consider learning to steward the Earth in this way, and the urgency with which
we need to teach more how to live this way increases daily.

Hey all, I would find it helpful if posters regularly indicated there location
in their post.  It helps me frame their queries and any suggestions I might be
able to offer.  Thanks

  Steve Smith
Two Friends Farm
2934 250th Street
Marshalltown, IA 50158
twofriendsfarm@...
641-751-2851



----- Original Message ----
From: Linda Shewan <linda_shewan@...>
To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 5:44:18 PM
Subject: RE: [fukuoka_farming] Natural Farming for a Living


Hi Lee,

First up - I chose a man who can give me pretty much whatever we need in
terms of comfort - but he can't be happy with the simplicity I crave meaning
there is a constant 'gap' in our relationship. We are looking forward to the
future where we may meet - where he feels financially secure enough to
simplify - isn't that concept strange...  Trust me, find yourself a partner
that will be happy with, indeed craves, the simple life. Believe me, there
are some of us out there...

Don't try and go all out in one go, keep the laptop and keep connected
online with people like us. If you grow excess and sell at a local market
you will also stay connected that way. It doesn't take a lot. I have started
making a pesto with native spinach that grows like a weed (perfect for
natural farming) and my local connections are slowly but surely growing with
it. I am still in the money economy but by the time that collapses I feel
comfortable that I will have a lot more connections in the community to
support my family through it - AND I can pay the lease on the land this way!

This statement is heresy on this list but you may feel more comfortable
starting from a permaculture perspective. There is a large social network in
permaculture and it encompasses many of Natural Farmings ideals - no
chemicals, working with nature, using handtools instead of powertools -
subsistence living to a large extent. But it also acknowledges our current
cultural environment and the need to 'Obtain a Yield' (one of the 12
principles of permaculture) so that you can survive in this world. For me,
the pesto is my yield, then as people are opened to the idea of using the
native spinach, just the leaves will be and then ... we'll see. Permaculture
also shows lots of options for heating, cooling etc outside the usual realm
so there is a raft of self education you can do in the meantime. I think
Toby Hemingway's book Gaia's Garden seems to be the preferred one in the US
as a starting point - it should be in the local library.

Go for your goal. I believe you need a social network and online may not be
enough. Search out the area you want to buy land in and see if you can
connect with people in the community by attending farmers markets and
similar events. Talk to the locals - you will then find out if the community
suits you before spending all your money on the land.

Good luck and all the best, Linda

From: fukuoka_farming@ yahoogroups. com
[mailto:fukuoka_farming@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lee
Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2008 1:31 PM
To: fukuoka_farming@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Natural Farming for a Living

Back in 2004 I discovered organic farming. At that time the higher
prices payed for organic produce restored my childhood hope to farm
for a living. I then went on to discover various methods of farming
on small organic farms. As my knowledge progressed, I began to
desire to farm with less and less technology, or farm equipment.

My first plans were to farm with a small used tractor and used
implements. Then, in December of 2005 in an issue of American Small
Farm I read an article about how one man still farmed with horses.
He was also a professor, and explained the economics of horse
farming, and all of the numerous benefits. I was excited to discover
that it was still profitable and functional, especially since I had a
background of breaking colts. I felt like I could combine my love
for horses with a passion for organic farming, and everything would
be wonderful.

Well, in the coming months I subsicribed to a journal and a magazine
about farming with horses and oxen. I learned a bit more and was
further encouraged. Then, during the spring of 2006 while digging on
the internet for more organic farming information I read about
permaculture and no till gardening. Also, that spring in an issue of
Acres USA I seen one of Masanobu Fukuoka's books the One Straw
Revolution mentioned. The title of the book and a few words
describing it stayed on my memmory. In the spring of 2007 I
purchased the book. I was taken away by the wisdom in Fukuoka's
methods, and his devotion for being in harmony with nature. At that
point I changed my mind about wanting to farm with animals and till
up the land.

Since then I've been working an average of 60 hours a week in order
to save money to purchase farmland. In about a years time I have
managed to save thousands. Not hundreds of thousands, but tens of
thousands, thanks to a career opportunity in construction.

Nevertheless, this is certainly not a career that I want to spend my
life in. I am still working towards my goal of farming for a living.

I do have some concerns though. My biggest concern is whether or not
I will be able to earn a sufficient income to meet my needs. Now, I
am aware that a living a life of natural farming is more than just
farming techniques, but a way of life that is more natural and
simplified. I welcome the idea of further simplifying my life, and
I am interested in voluntary simplicity. I currently live debt free,
and TV free, but the rest of my life is that of a typical "tight"
spend-thrift american. The problem arises for me when I consider the
fact that I would like to provide finacially for a spouse. I'm
currently single, and have no prospect, but I do worry about this. I
also worry that I will not be able to find a spouse that would be
happy living a life of great simplicity.

I can see that living without electricity and living car-free would
drastically reduce my expenses, but what about transporting my
produce to the market? What about my social needs (though I'm a bit
of an introvert), and what about the desires of a potential spouse?

I'm beggining to question at this point whether or not I must choose
between a life of natural farming, and providing financially for a
life partner. Choosing to live off-the-grid is not tough for me, but
choosing to live without solar panels, a laptop, a cell phone, and a
fridge is tough for me. I know that I can do without these things if
I must, but will I meet a woman in America that desires to live such
a life? Then, there's living car-free, transporting produce, and so
on.

I guess that I'm asking for some direction, and a bit of
encouragement.

I also need some hands-on experience with natural forming before I'm
able to even subsist on it?

Which brings up a good point. Should I only expect/desire to live at
a subsitance level, and not trasport produce? I see the benefits in
living such a life, but I fear being lonely and disconnected from my
relatives.

I've considered joining a commune in order to meet my social needs,
but I feel that I will be limited in the amount of choices that I
will be able to make concerning the layout of the farm, and so on.
Maybe I'm being a bit selfish in that respect, and should see that
some trade-off must exist in order to share my life with others.

Back to the hands-on experience. I do need to learn. I have some
knowledge about plants and the soil, and a bit of experience with
livestock, but when it comes to real natural farming, I do not have
any experience. Aside from my fears concerning financial issues, I
know that I do not "yet" have enough knowledge and experience to
natural farm at even a subsistence level with any certainty.

Any advice would be much appreciated, even though some of my
questions go beyond the realm of natural farming in some ways.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi! Come and join us on our mission of mapping out all the wild fruit
and edibles available in town (and out!) !!!

MISSION:

Locate WILD FOOD SOURCE in your city, town, area (i.e. berry bush,
apple tree, fruit tree, mint, mulberry trees, figue trees, etc)

Once food source has been located report to HQ and enter data
(location, food type, important info). Once information is entered it
appears on the Google Maps Database to your right. Add relevant info
such as how to access location (subway stations, bus routes, bike paths).

Verify food sources entered by other members; when needed, update
database following procedure described above.

Head quarters:
Group:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=56793145575
Website:
http://inthecommunity.googlepages.com/

Great search to everyone!

I would like to thank Kiko, Linda, and Jake for replying.  I'm sorry
that my post was so long, but I felt that I needed to sufficiently
explain my circumstances.

On Joel Salatin, I read his book on pastured poultry, and have his
other books on my wishlist, but I'm interested in farming a bit more
like Fukuoka than Salatin, even though Salatin's methods are simple
(maybe it's just that his livestock require more material things like
fences, troughs, etc...).

I'm also have books by Toby Hemingway and Bill Mollison on my
wishlist.  I do plan to read their books, but I havn't gotten there
yet.

Linda, it was encouraging to read a reply from a woman that craves
simple living.  Thanks for posting and reminding me that such women
are out there.

Jake, I'm quite willing to live well below the American standard of
living.  To be honest, I've also considered joining the Amish also,
but I do not share their religious convictions.  I've even considered
moving to a 3rd world country, specifically Mexico.  I started to
consider Mexico a couple of years ago, then had my doubts about it,
but my interest in Moving to Mexico was renewed today.  In fact,
today I spoke to a Mexican American co-worker about purchasing
farmland in Mexico.  I'm going to look into various states and towns
in Mexico.  I'm sure the there are many women that live in rural
Mexico, and would not think any less of me for living car-free.

Jake, I also like that you stopped waiting for conditions to be right
and took action.  Your story is inspiring.  You followed your
passion, and it worked.  I'd like to do the same, but I'm living in
my current location temporarilly while I save money.  I may get
involved with gardening in some other way, such as helping someone
else garden while I'm here.

So, now I'm off to look at Mexico on the net.

I'm considering attempting to purchase some rental property to
provide income while I'm farming, but when I'm honest with myself,
that is not exactly in the direction of SIMPLE LIVING.  Besides,
shouldn't I just purchase more farmland instead of doing rentals just
for the money?

--- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, JSENT <wegrow4@...> wrote:
>
> Howdy,
> Our stories are very similar.  I too went low-tech, although I
still turn the ground for some crops (but with hand tools).  In 2004
after really realizing tomorrow was guaranteed to no one, I decided
to stop waiting for conditions to be right to farm and just started
with what little land I had, some hand tools and little seed.  In
2005 I started going to market, then in 2006 I rented a little more
land, when that didn't work out some land found me.   Been expanding
the garden each year since.
>
> As energy and food prices continue to rise the local producer will
be more and more important.  I would love to develop local market for
my goods but here in the heart of cropland, the word organic gets you
sneers more than cheers so I take mine to the nearest city.  Also, 
the locals take garden produce for granted and expect it to be very
cheap, ie I have gotten sneers for asking $1 / lb. for beans at a
local market but in Bloomington 30 miles away I sell out at $4/ lb. 
If you give up the idea of making a "living" by western standards
(sounds like you are well on your way to that anyway) you can make a
go of it.   It is very rewarding even if you made nothing at it. 
Btw, I do keep a "day job" selling things online.  I would like to
give up the vehicles and the internet soon.  A bit of conditioning
(and excuses) to overcome.  Trying times ahead may make the decision
for us all. 
>
> I was also frustrated with meeting someone who wanted to live
simply, I was convinced I was going to have to join the amish or go
to the "3rd world".  I joined greensingles.com and have met many
people wanting to live simply.  I would caution against finding
someone who is not living the simple life but "wants to".  Once the
novelty of it wears off, homesteading requires hard work, self drive
and dedication.  Not everyone is up to it. 
>
> Much to be said for and against intentional communities.  More I
could add but I have to go gather some mulch before the heat of the
day.
>
> cheers, jake
>
> www.grandprairiefood.com
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thanks for your reply Nandan.  I can understand where you are coming
from.  Since I do not have children, I don't face the same problems
in that area.  Yet, I do consider being able to afford major medical
insurance coverage (is it necessary, opinions welcome).  I would also
prefer to live/farm car-free.  Now, choosing to live car free in a
small town or rural area would, or could have an impact on my social
life.  Aside from choosing to live a life that few women aspire to
live, I worry about those other issues.  I don't care about
homeowners insurance or life insurance since I live debt free, and
will build a simple earthen home.

--- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Nandan Palaparambil
<p_k_nandanan@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Lee,
>
> This is indeed a bold step..
>
> Even I dream of quitting my current job and live a life based on
farming, but there are too many dependables. Kids education, social
issues, convincing family/relatives .. so I am planning for an
intermediate solution after a period of 5 years.
>
> Wish you all the best and hope that you find a spouse soon.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Nandan
>
> --- On Wed, 7/16/08, Lee <plain_farmer@...> wrote:
> From: Lee <plain_farmer@...>
> Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Natural Farming for a Living
> To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 9:01 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>             Back in 2004 I discovered organic farming.  At that
time the higher
>
> prices payed for organic produce restored my childhood hope to farm
>
> f
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Lee,

True, since you are at the starting stage you can take different direction,
which is not possible for people like us.

It is like Fukuoka's experience with citrus trees.. one they are pruned and used
to modern style of agriculture, they take many years to get adjusted to the
natural conditions.

Even I have plans for a simple house in my farm based on Laurie Baker's low cost
construction.


Regards,
Nandan
Beginner - NF,
Bangalore,India

--- On Sat, 7/19/08, Lee <plain_farmer@...> wrote:
From: Lee <plain_farmer@...>
Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Re: Natural Farming for a Living
To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, July 19, 2008, 4:54 AM











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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for your reply Steven.  I do understand what you mean when you
say that other's will typically not consider a life of scarcity.
Still, there are benefits to not having a car.  They are greatly
explained in books on car free living, such as Chris Balish's
book, "How to live well without owning a car" (not without using a
car, per se).  It is a matter of opinion, and the cliche of viewing
the glass half full or half empty seems apropriate here.

I have not yet firmly established what I consider appropriate
technology for "my" life.  I do lean in certain directions and have
ideas, but having yet to find a mate makes it tougher for me to
decide on "grey areas".  Some ecological choices are easy, but some
are tougher and have a widespread impact on one's life.  Choices,
choices, I'm stuck.

--- In fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com, Steven Smith
<twofriendsfarm@...> wrote:
>
> We are Quaker and simplicity is one of our core values.  But
simplicity does not necessarily mean a life of scarcity.  As we
continue to perfect our farm we are working toward never having to
start an engine, but making hay for winter forage and pushing snow in
winter still require it.  We follow Natural Farming principles--no
tilling, no chemicals, no artificial soil amendments, no bare soil,
planting mutually supportive polycultures--and always asking
ourselves Fukuoka's question "how about not doing this or not doing
that."  From a Systems Thinking standpoint this means discovering
what element has been removed from the natural system that is
requiring my labor and attention to replace it, and finding a
manageable way to reintroduce that natural element and eliminate my
work.  The particular practices of Natural Farming change with the
geographic and ecological setting of course, but that is what makes
it fun, discovering how to apply them to our
>  particular situation.  But we earn a living.  We will send our
kids to college.  We have phones, and a car, and wireless access.  In
fact my work has led me to believe that unless I can demonstrate to
my neighbors that this is a life of abundance rather than one of
scarcity they will be much less inclined to consider learning to
steward the Earth in this way, and the urgency with which we need to
teach more how to live this way increases daily.
>
> Hey all, I would find it helpful if posters regularly indicated
there location in their post.  It helps me frame their queries and
any suggestions I might be able to offer.  Thanks
>
>  Steve Smith
> Two Friends Farm
> 2934 250th Street
> Marshalltown, IA 50158
> twofriendsfarm@...
> 641-751-2851
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Linda Shewan <linda_shewan@...>
> To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 5:44:18 PM
> Subject: RE: [fukuoka_farming] Natural Farming for a Living
>
>
> Hi Lee,
>
> First up - I chose a man who can give me pretty much whatever we
need in
> terms of comfort - but he can't be happy with the simplicity I
crave meaning
> there is a constant 'gap' in our relationship. We are looking
forward to the
> future where we may meet - where he feels financially secure enough
to
> simplify - isn't that concept strange...  Trust me, find yourself a
partner
> that will be happy with, indeed craves, the simple life. Believe
me, there
> are some of us out there...
>
> Don't try and go all out in one go, keep the laptop and keep
connected
> online with people like us. If you grow excess and sell at a local
market
> you will also stay connected that way. It doesn't take a lot. I
have started
> making a pesto with native spinach that grows like a weed (perfect
for
> natural farming) and my local connections are slowly but surely
growing with
> it. I am still in the money economy but by the time that collapses
I feel
> comfortable that I will have a lot more connections in the
community to
> support my family through it - AND I can pay the lease on the land
this way!
>
> This statement is heresy on this list but you may feel more
comfortable
> starting from a permaculture perspective. There is a large social
network in
> permaculture and it encompasses many of Natural Farmings ideals - no
> chemicals, working with nature, using handtools instead of
powertools -
> subsistence living to a large extent. But it also acknowledges our
current
> cultural environment and the need to 'Obtain a Yield' (one of the 12
> principles of permaculture) so that you can survive in this world.
For me,
> the pesto is my yield, then as people are opened to the idea of
using the
> native spinach, just the leaves will be and then ... we'll see.
Permaculture
> also shows lots of options for heating, cooling etc outside the
usual realm
> so there is a raft of self education you can do in the meantime. I
think
> Toby Hemingway's book Gaia's Garden seems to be the preferred one
in the US
> as a starting point - it should be in the local library.
>
> Go for your goal. I believe you need a social network and online
may not be
> enough. Search out the area you want to buy land in and see if you
can
> connect with people in the community by attending farmers markets
and
> similar events. Talk to the locals - you will then find out if the
community
> suits you before spending all your money on the land.
>
> Good luck and all the best, Linda
>
> From: fukuoka_farming@ yahoogroups. com
> [mailto:fukuoka_farming@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lee
> Sent: Wednesday, 16 July 2008 1:31 PM
> To: fukuoka_farming@ yahoogroups. com
> Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Natural Farming for a Living
>
> Back in 2004 I discovered organic farming. At that time the higher
> prices payed for organic produce restored my childhood hope to farm
> for a living. I then went on to discover various methods of farming
> on small organic farms. As my knowledge progressed, I began to
> desire to farm with less and less technology, or farm equipment.
>
> My first plans were to farm with a small used tractor and used
> implements. Then, in December of 2005 in an issue of American Small
> Farm I read an article about how one man still farmed with horses.
> He was also a professor, and explained the economics of horse
> farming, and all of the numerous benefits. I was excited to
discover
> that it was still profitable and functional, especially since I had
a
> background of breaking colts. I felt like I could combine my love
> for horses with a passion for organic farming, and everything would
> be wonderful.
>
> Well, in the coming months I subsicribed to a journal and a
magazine
> about farming with horses and oxen. I learned a bit more and was
> further encouraged. Then, during the spring of 2006 while digging
on
> the internet for more organic farming information I read about
> permaculture and no till gardening. Also, that spring in an issue
of
> Acres USA I seen one of Masanobu Fukuoka's books the One Straw
> Revolution mentioned. The title of the book and a few words
> describing it stayed on my memmory. In the spring of 2007 I
> purchased the book. I was taken away by the wisdom in Fukuoka's
> methods, and his devotion for being in harmony with nature. At that
> point I changed my mind about wanting to farm with animals and till
> up the land.
>
> Since then I've been working an average of 60 hours a week in order
> to save money to purchase farmland. In about a years time I have
> managed to save thousands. Not hundreds of thousands, but tens of
> thousands, thanks to a career opportunity in construction.
>
> Nevertheless, this is certainly not a career that I want to spend
my
> life in. I am still working towards my goal of farming for a living.
>
> I do have some concerns though. My biggest concern is whether or
not
> I will be able to earn a sufficient income to meet my needs. Now, I
> am aware that a living a life of natural farming is more than just
> farming techniques, but a way of life that is more natural and
> simplified. I welcome the idea of further simplifying my life, and
> I am interested in voluntary simplicity. I currently live debt
free,
> and TV free, but the rest of my life is that of a typical "tight"
> spend-thrift american. The problem arises for me when I consider
the
> fact that I would like to provide finacially for a spouse. I'm
> currently single, and have no prospect, but I do worry about this.
I
> also worry that I will not be able to find a spouse that would be
> happy living a life of great simplicity.
>
> I can see that living without electricity and living car-free would
> drastically reduce my expenses, but what about transporting my
> produce to the market? What about my social needs (though I'm a bit
> of an introvert), and what about the desires of a potential spouse?
>
> I'm beggining to question at this point whether or not I must
choose
> between a life of natural farming, and providing financially for a
> life partner. Choosing to live off-the-grid is not tough for me,
but
> choosing to live without solar panels, a laptop, a cell phone, and
a
> fridge is tough for me. I know that I can do without these things
if
> I must, but will I meet a woman in America that desires to live
such
> a life? Then, there's living car-free, transporting produce, and so
> on.
>
> I guess that I'm asking for some direction, and a bit of
> encouragement.
>
> I also need some hands-on experience with natural forming before
I'm
> able to even subsist on it?
>
> Which brings up a good point. Should I only expect/desire to live
at
> a subsitance level, and not trasport produce? I see the benefits in
> living such a life, but I fear being lonely and disconnected from
my
> relatives.
>
> I've considered joining a commune in order to meet my social needs,
> but I feel that I will be limited in the amount of choices that I
> will be able to make concerning the layout of the farm, and so on.
> Maybe I'm being a bit selfish in that respect, and should see that
> some trade-off must exist in order to share my life with others.
>
> Back to the hands-on experience. I do need to learn. I have some
> knowledge about plants and the soil, and a bit of experience with
> livestock, but when it comes to real natural farming, I do not have
> any experience. Aside from my fears concerning financial issues, I
> know that I do not "yet" have enough knowledge and experience to
> natural farm at even a subsistence level with any certainty.
>
> Any advice would be much appreciated, even though some of my
> questions go beyond the realm of natural farming in some ways.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Lee,
I'm also in the same boat as you, my dad has bought 17 acers of land and
wants to do the scientific way. But I personaly prefer the natural way. I'm
well educated have a business of my own in the city, a lot of objections
from near & dear. In a world where money is the main goal, I'm glad that
there are a few who are in the other direction. Keep cheer and be patient we
will get across. A lot of hurdles on the way,


You can think of India if you plan to move out of America provided things
work out. Land is cheaper here but is sold only to farmers of India.
Non-farmers of even India cannot buy. You can get good red soil agricultural
land from INR Three Lacs onwards(1000 USD) which will be around a 100Km from
the city. You need to remember India is not as developed as America. Any way
this is just a suggestion.

Check this llink
www.theacademyofnatural*farming*.com<http://www.theacademyofnaturalfarming.com/>
You can contact him for any help. You will get first hand information.


Do write back.


regards,
John Vijaya
www.cfcindia.com
http://cjohnvijaya.blogspot.com/
http://picasaweb.google.co.in/cjohnvijaya


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]