I'm interested in this method also. However, my 'garden plot' is
actually a small section in a neglected 18 acre field. I realized that
by tilling, we would be bringing up 10+ years of weed seeds plus
the grass that had established over the years. How do you go no-
till with all this?
I understand the method and means after plants have been
established in the soil (snipping off weeds at the base, allowing
their roots to feed and brace the soil), feeding the garden through a
cover of mulch, etc. But where is the starting point? Just plant
through the growing grass and weeds and figure the soil is healthy
enough to support all? Mowing it all down to ground level and
mulching over the resulting areas?
I wouldn't mind doing some field tests using both tilling and no till
experimental plots, but need a definite 'how to' starting point.
Martha, also in Texas

--One way to get rid of weeds and seeds on a
relatively small area, is to cover the area with
thick, clear plastic sheeting. When the temperature
gets into the 80s, (which I believe probably occurs in
Texas in early March) you can put down the plastic and
seal the edges with dirt.The sun goes through the
plastic and heats up the soil. The plastic holds the
heat in. It then builds up in the soil and heats up
the soil for a couple of feet. The soil heats up well
over 100 degrees. This kills plants, roots, seeds,
microbes etc. Of course the soil is sterilized. But
then you can introduce your cover crop and other
desired plants which will renourish the soil. You will
then have a head start on the weeds. Keep the plastic
on for 3 weeks, pull off then plant. This probably
won't work in cooler climates, but should work in
Texas ,Calif. etc.flylo@... wrote:
> I'm interested in this method also. However, my
> 'garden plot' is
> actually a small section in a neglected 18 acre
> field. I realized that
> by tilling, we would be bringing up 10+ years of
> weed seeds plus
> the grass that had established over the years. How
> do you go no-
> till with all this?
> I understand the method and means after plants have
> been
> established in the soil (snipping off weeds at the
> base, allowing
> their roots to feed and brace the soil), feeding the
> garden through a
> cover of mulch, etc. But where is the starting
> point? Just plant
> through the growing grass and weeds and figure the
> soil is healthy
> enough to support all? Mowing it all down to ground
> level and
> mulching over the resulting areas?
> I wouldn't mind doing some field tests using both
> tilling and no till
> experimental plots, but need a definite 'how to'
> starting point.
> Martha, also in Texas
>


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I am new to the server and I do not understand anyone posting anything about
soil sterilzation here.  Mr Fukuoka would turn over in his grave it he
thought anyone following his teachings would do such a thing.  Organic,
no-till follows nature and I have never seen a forest covered with clear
plastic.  The goal is to increase soil life and earth worms do the tilling.
I can not imagine anyone killing all life in their soil since that is what
releases nutrients, etc for the plants to use.

A natural pre-emergence herbicide is corn gluten meal.  Several sheets of
newspaper  or cardboard will prevent weeds.  The best way to prevent weeds is
to have a healthy soil.  Weeds tell you what is wrong with your soil if you
learn how to read them.

Much about his work is also at www.seedballs.com.

Ken Hargesheimer

Spreading corn gluten meal in February will prevent any seeds from germinating
weeds that are annuals.  Of course new seeds won't grow there for a while
either, but it will be a while before you plant outdoors anyway.  It is a great
fertilizer, too.
Gloria


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

martha
It depends how small is your gardened area.
I started marking 5 feet wide beds for vegetables.
did the sowing or transplanting among the scrub and as the plants grew,
I cut the scrub gradually back by hand. It was a very smooth
transition, made possible because I started small.
francisco

Remitente: flylo@... But where is the starting point? Just
plant
> through the growing grass and weeds and figure the soil is healthy
> enough to support all? Mowing it all down to ground level and
> mulching over the resulting areas?

We are converting our lawn to forest garden by laying out plots
outlined with firewood.  We then put down grass clippings and leaves,
then several layers of newspaper, then some more grass clippings and
leaves and then dirt on top.  This is working very well for us.

Robert Waldrop, Oklahoma City
http://www.bettertimesinfo.org

-----Original Message-----
From: flylo@... <flylo@...>
>I'm interested in this method also. However, my 'garden plot' is
>actually a small section in a neglected 18 acre field. I realized
that
>by tilling, we would be bringing up 10+ years of weed seeds plus
>the grass that had established over the years. How do you go no-
>till with all this?
>I understand the method and means after plants have been
>established in the soil (snipping off weeds at the base, allowing
>their roots to feed and brace the soil), feeding the garden through a
>cover of mulch, etc. But where is the starting point? Just plant
>through the growing grass and weeds and figure the soil is healthy
>enough to support all? Mowing it all down to ground level and
>mulching over the resulting areas?
>I wouldn't mind doing some field tests using both tilling and no till
>experimental plots, but need a definite 'how to' starting point.
>Martha, also in Texas

Greetings All,  I am new to this site, and have not searched your
archives extensively, so if this is an old question then I apologise.
   I live in Terrace, B.C., and am aquiring land outside of town.  the
area here is in the coastal rainforest, so drought is not an issue.
I would like to try farming my land as natural as possible, and have
been drawn to the ideas of Master Fukuoka, but I was curious as to
whether there was anybody else with experience in Rainforest
gardening, particularily up in Northern B.C..  I am curious about
seedballs made of clay possibly holding too much water, and rotting.
What sorts of vegetables can be grown with this method?  Any ideas
would be appreciated.  thanks in advance.

welcome to the trial & perseverent crew...
having rain often & not too cold: makes it easier the natural ag.
practice...but vegetable plants are not easy to grow by just seedballing &
throwing them at random... try to destabilize first whatever vegetation is
on the ground (check the site for this problem) & try to sow seeds adapted
already to ur climate & of the above ground varieties of the cabbage family,
swiss chard, fava beans, daikon radish, (or other winter type radishes),
chicories..
& keep on trying...it took Fukuoka years to succed his trials!
----- Original Message -----
From: "pokachinni" <pokachinni@...>
To: <fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2002 4:18 PM
Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Going Fukuoka-Termperate Rainforest???


> Greetings All,  I am new to this site, and have not searched your
> archives extensively, so if this is an old question then I apologise.
>   I live in Terrace, B.C., and am aquiring land outside of town.  the
> area here is in the coastal rainforest, so drought is not an issue.
> I would like to try farming my land as natural as possible, and have
> been drawn to the ideas of Master Fukuoka, but I was curious as to
> whether there was anybody else with experience in Rainforest
> gardening, particularily up in Northern B.C..  I am curious about
> seedballs made of clay possibly holding too much water, and rotting.
> What sorts of vegetables can be grown with this method?  Any ideas
> would be appreciated.  thanks in advance.
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Hi!
I am working for an agriculture magazine in India. I am looking for
first hand information on natural farming. Anyone who is practicing
natural farming, please contact me at vishalrawat@....
Vishal Rawat

Curious! The more members this list has the quieter it becomes.
If you've recently joined why not write a little about what you are
upto, or what you would like to be doing or are planning; if you have
any questions fire away as there are many on this list who have been
working in organic/natural farming for many years and their knowledge
is priceless.
To outline the latest work at Souscayrous; I have been recently
inspired by the work of Frenchman Jean Pain and his techniques (thank
you again Emilia) for composting shredded undergrowth and small
branches. Whilst composting as a long term strategy is not natural
farming, the addition of soil building additives initially to bring
the soil to a level of natural self-fertility can often be necessary.
It is no profound philosophy to realise that you can only start from
where you find yourself!
The reason for adopting his techniques are numerous; he developed his
approach also in Mediterranean France so we are using much of the
same plants, he required the compost to contribute all the water his
vegetables would need through the long, hot and very dry summers we
have here and water is the one thing I do not have at Souscayrous (at
least not yet until I build a cistern in which to collect the
rainwater off the roof and, oh yes, build the house to support the
roof, develop an earthen pond to catch the runoff of the rainstorms
and the product of the greywater from the house after it has passed
through a constructed reed bed...), the quality of the soil after
many years of ploughing has deteriorated and it therefore requires
some improvement and I have as much brushwood to hand as is needed
and finally becuase Jean Pain's method fits so well with the work of
Lemieux on ramial chipped wood  (see list archive for discussion of
Lemieux's work).
Unfortunately, having no water to hand at the site, I am relying on
rainfall alone to wet the brushwood to Jean Pain's specifications and
I am still waiting for significant rainfall. Until rain arrives I am
leaving the shredded wood and bushes under some builders plastic I
had from a construction job, hoping to retain the moisture and
provide the humid environment conducive for the bacteria and mold to
breakdown the wood into humus. I uncover the mound when rain
threatens and recover when the sun or wind return. While the sun is
still low in the sky (we're at 43 degrees North) I doubt the
bacteria/mold will fry beneath the plastic.
My intention will be to use the compost, which Jean Pain says should
take roughly four months to be ready, on raised beds a la Emilia
Hazelip. While Jean Pain suggests lying a mulch of pine needles on
top of his compost on top of the earth, I will be using straw
instead. While there are plenty of pine needles to be found locally
coniferous litter actually works to sterilise the soil and although
Pain is aware of this and recommends taking the pine needles off at
the end of the growing season its seems more work than is necessary,
especially when straw breaks down so well and adds the bacterial
richness required by vegetable crops.
But I am a neophyte, what do I know? I'll let you know just how much
of our vegetable needs are met by my first growing attempts (for two
adults, a five year old and a fourteen month old).
Does anyone have recommendations for vegetable seeds for our warm
temperate/mediterranean climate - beyond tomatoes, peppers,
cucumbers, lettuce, onions, potatoes we're open to any veg and I
really don't know what our climate and our clay rich soil will
support, especially in its first year: aubergine, melons, courgette,
beans, peas??
Finally, any recommendations of what to do with the rest of the field
(only 1000sqm)? Cover crop, green mulch, harvestable crop...all
suggestions gratefully received.



Souscayrous

One of the things about Fukuoka's approach that has worried me before is that
this is such an arid area unlike where he is in Japan.  It is necessary to amend
the soil in some fashion to assist water retention to keep the plants alive.  I
facilitate this somewhat by using native varieties as much as possible.  However
I would be severely limited in vegetables if I did that with them.

Does anyone know if Fukuoka has addressed this?  We have discussed the
adaptability of Fukuoka's work in its truest form and whether it would work in
all climates.  The premise is sound, so I would imagine that slight adaptions
would not harm it.  I am willing, however, to experiment with Fukuoka's
technique without amending the soil to see if it will make the difference.  What
say you all?

Souscayrous......why not radishes?  Particularly if you need to break up the
soil somewhat with the clay content daikon radishes might do the trick.  At
Seeds of Change in New Mexico, US, the man who began the project there used
daikon radishes to break up the soil which previously could not hardly be
tilled.  He planted the radishes,but he did not harvest them.  He left them in
the ground and planted the next year's crop right over them.  In this way in the
third year he harvested a wonderful crop of daikon radishes.....and the soil was
then good for anything he wished to plant there.  I thought it was an ingenious
idea, although it did require patience.  But it does retain the no-till method
of natural farming, does it not?

Gloria
Texas
USA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For those of you who want or need to irrigate and do not have piped water,
there is a solution. Richard Chapin, who installed the first drip system in
the USA, wanted to make it useful to subsistence farmers in third world
countries.  He invented the bucket drip irrigation kit.  It has 100 feet of
drip line which can be installed as one line or two 50" or four 25' or six
12½' lines.  You take a five gallon plastic pail and cut a hole in the bottom
and elevate it one meter.  In the kit are what is necessary to connect it to
the drip lines.  Carry the water each AM and PM to the pail from whatever
source.  It works beautifully.  Cost is $10 per kit plus postage.  If you
want more info, email <minifarms@...>.  I do not sell them.  Dick
provides a sample for me to demonstrate in my ag workshops.
Ken Hargesheimer

Hello All,

With Emilia hazelip's permission and help I have posted an article she
wrote about her approach that appeared in a permaculture journal.  She
also provided some color photographs of her garden which I added to the
page.  I will be expanding this short article soon to the complete 3
part story.  For now you may find it at:

http://www.seedballs.com/hazelip.html

As to the question of how to get started with all this do-nothing
agriculture and how much is it "fair" to do and still call it natural
farming I would reply this way:  I read an article about Mr. Fukuoka's
earliest attempts at this business.  His rice/barley fields were so
depleted when he began to farm them that he stripped all the top soil
off the fields, laid in plant and animal waste compost, possibly
including human compost, then replaced the top soil and never turned the
soil again.  That is quite a dramatic start.  He also cut and buried
bamboo and tree limbs in berms and allowed them to naturally decay and
enrich his mandarin orchard hillsides.

On another subject, some kind watering system is necessary in dry lands
to grow most vegetables.  Native grasses and herbaceous plants in
rehabilitation projects can do quite well without irrigation if they are
adapted to the area and applied at the correct times.  I lived in a land
with less than 6 inches of rain per year and I could not grow food
without a source of non-salty water.  The aridity of the air in desert
areas is so great that just to keep up turgor the plants must transpire
all the time.

Mr. Fukuoka has helped the people in arid parts of Africa grow
vegetables by making small catchment dams or berms around the plants.
Small thatched "huts" of sticks and straw are constructed over the beds
for shade and they are watered by hand using buckets with holes punched
in the bottom.  Seed balls are not THE MAGIC ANSWER to all earthly
ills.  They are not necessarily the best way to grow vegetables
everywhere.  They protect the seeds from insects, birds, mice, dry winds
and scouring rains, and they can keep them around until it does rain.
If you make them with living soil humus you add greatly to their chances
of successful germination and establishment and give them a slight, but
critical edge over broadcast seed.  Beyond that the wild forces of
nature prevail.  The truth is, not everywhere on the earth is suitable
for our invasive and intensive and limitlessly expansive agricultural
practices.  Just don't try to grow a lot of potatoes in the desert.
Grow cactus and mesquite there instead.

Sincerely,

Jim Bones

Regarding your shortage of moisture for your compost, consider adding
your household's wash water to the pile.

As to additional vegetables for your climate, I suggest arugula, pak
choi, collard greens, salad burnett (a perennial salad plant) and a
wide variety of herbs.  Also, sunflowers (seed is edible and is an oil
source, plus the flowers provide beauty).

Our long term project is to convert our property to a forest garden,
and I am trying to learn more of the Fukuoka method to see how it
could help us.  There are two dead elm trees on the property which
have recently fallen over in some weather.  We are using parts of the
trunks, together with some other firewood, as the edges of our beds,
and have generally made use of all of the wood of these two trees on
the property as part of our design.  Can't have a forest without
rotting wood, it seems to me.

For your 1000 square meter area, if it will eventually be part of your
food producing system, planting green manures on it that will decay
back into the same ground would be a way of raising its fertility.

Robert Waldrop, OKC
http://www.bettertimesinfo.org

-----Original Message-----
From: souscayrous <souscayrous@...>
>Unfortunately, having no water to hand at the site, I am relying on
>rainfall alone to wet the brushwood to Jean Pain's specifications and
>I am still waiting for significant rainfall. Until rain arrives I am
>leaving the shredded wood and bushes under some builders plastic I
>had from a construction job, hoping to retain the moisture and
>provide the humid environment conducive for the bacteria and mold to
>breakdown the wood into humus. I uncover the mound when rain
>threatens and recover when the sun or wind return. While the sun is
>still low in the sky (we're at 43 degrees North) I doubt the
>bacteria/mold will fry beneath the plastic.
>My intention will be to use the compost, which Jean Pain says should
>take roughly four months to be ready, on raised beds a la Emilia
>Hazelip. While Jean Pain suggests lying a mulch of pine needles on
>top of his compost on top of the earth, I will be using straw
>instead. While there are plenty of pine needles to be found locally
>coniferous litter actually works to sterilise the soil and although
>Pain is aware of this and recommends taking the pine needles off at
>the end of the growing season its seems more work than is necessary,
>especially when straw breaks down so well and adds the bacterial
>richness required by vegetable crops.
>But I am a neophyte, what do I know? I'll let you know just how much
>of our vegetable needs are met by my first growing attempts (for two
>adults, a five year old and a fourteen month old).
>Does anyone have recommendations for vegetable seeds for our warm
>temperate/mediterranean climate - beyond tomatoes, peppers,
>cucumbers, lettuce, onions, potatoes we're open to any veg and I
>really don't know what our climate and our clay rich soil will
>support, especially in its first year: aubergine, melons, courgette,
>beans, peas??
>Finally, any recommendations of what to do with the rest of the field
>(only 1000sqm)? Cover crop, green mulch, harvestable crop...all
>suggestions gratefully received.

I visit Japan often and I was wondering if Mr. Fukuoka is still living and
if his farm
is still there. Also do you know where I might be able to get copies
of  "The Natural Way of Farming" and "The Road Back To Nature"?

Thanks
Brent Leggett

The Road Back to Nature and the Natural Way of Farming are notoriously
difficult to find; there are a few public libraries that sometimes have them
available, but you have to snatch them quick. They are also available via
used book search, www.abebooks.com or bibliofind.com - they are always very
expensive. There is a slower but more affordable option. The Other India
Bookstore in Goa still publishes the book, and will ship them to you for a
fair price, but they still work by slow mail.
http://www.mnet.fr/aiindex/i_oibs/OIBS.html

I think The Natural Way of Farming is by far the most practical book.


I hope this helps!
Good luck.

Ryan McSweeney

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Hello,  I am responding to an earlier post about what are people
doing out there by souscayrous (is that spelled right?)  I have
recently aquired 10 acres in North coastal B.C., Canada.  It is 1/2
forested, with 70 year old post forest fire forest.  The trees
include western red cedar, birch, lodgepole pine, sitka spruce,
western hemlock, red elder, balsam fir, red alder, black cottonwood,
trembling aspen, pacific crab apple, wild bitter cherry.  The area
has many wild shrubs, wildflowers, moss, and lichens.
    I plan to graft some heritage fruit tree branches to some of the
wild fruit trees to begin an orchard of sorts.  Other plans include
gathering wild hazelnuts in the Hazelton area to the east of here,
and casting them about the property, some of them encased in clay,
others piled in holes like squirrels leave them naturally.  I would
like to get some Hazel trees that I can root layer, as well as other
nut bearing trees like oak, beech, hickory, black walnut, in heirloom
varieties that might grow here in the norh-interior boreal/temperate
rainforest transition zone.  I'm not sure that M. Fukuoka would
approve of all this grafting and such, but oh well, it happens in
nature all the time.  I would like to plant species native to this
province but not to my area.  I know where I can gather yew berries
on the coast, and I would like to try douglas fir, bigleaf maple,
yellow cedar, pacific dogwood, limber pine.  I would like to plant
the nearby junipers, but I prefer saskatoon (service) berries (the
junipers have a symbiotic bacteria that causes the sask berries to
shrivel, and discolour.  Where areas are going to be destroyed by
road building from the local region, I plan to remove plants that I
desire on my landscape, placing them in buckets with soil intact.
These I can either transplant on my property, give away to friends,
or sell at the local farmer's market in a cedar box made from mill
scraps.  I would like to try to propogate wild edible, and medicinal
plants along with those domesticated varieties that I like to
consume.
    I plan to alter the landscape in a number of ways.  First their is
a creek that flows 3 seasons through the lower part of the property.
After coursing over and saturating clay soils, it disappears into
sandier, rockier, glacier till.  I will be digging out some ponds and
pools in the wet area.  This will encourage more animal life, and
diversify the area.  I will import the eggs of local amphibians, and
will probably  bring freshwater clams, crayfish, and suckerfish from
local sources.  Water plants like cattails, and pond lilies will be
transplanted, and left to propogate.  The soil from the pond digging
will be placed in meandering berms to create micro-climates for
desirable vegetables.  I might be able to grow tomatos outdoors
fukuoka style if I create the perfect climate.  As far as veggies is
concerned I will mostly be sticking to that which does not require a
lot of heat.  Moisture I've got.  Sunlight is usually filtered by the
clouds.  Roots, greens, cuc's, zuc's, flowers, peas, beans,
sunflowers, etc.  If you want to hear more just ask.  I've got to go
put supper on the table for the kids.

In reply to Souscayrous' suggestion that we introduce
ourselves, here's who I am:

I live in Brooklyn, where I am designing a tiny little
no-till perennial garden on my rooftop.  This will
probably consist of strawberries, rosa rugosa, and
medicinal herbs, with a layer of white clover, fed by
rainwater from a bucket attached to the gutter.  This
is my first experiment with perennials and with
no-till, and I'll share updates as they come along.

I also work with elementary school kids in the Bronx,
where we will be starting a garden come spring.  I'm
planning on leaving the design mostly to the
young'uns, but it may turn out to be somewhat no-till,
at least in as much as we'll sheet mulch and add
clover.  We also have a composting worm bin, which is
fun for everyone.

Last year I worked with the NYC Parks Dept. doing
environmental education and habitat restoration.  A
lot of the work was invasive removal and reintroducing
native plants, and at least 50% of the work was
completely wasted.  If I'd known about seedballs
then....

I'm interested in small-scale applications of the
Fukuoka method, of the homestead/subsistence type,
more than large-scale market farming.  Also into
permaculture, natural building, and all those other
fetishes.  Looking forward to all the new information
I suspect this list will provide.  Thanks,
Adam

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Hello Adam;

I'm new to this board as well.  I just wanted to say
that it's nice to hear of your work in N.Y.C..  It is
good to hear of a person with rural alternative
lifestyle ideas (fetishes, you say?) doing these
things in the civic structure.    Your's is the first
urban rooftop Fukuoka farm I've heard of.  It kinda
warms my heart.  I had a dream that all buildings
would someday be vegetated, so as to limit run off,
and increase the growing surface of the earth.  I hope
your roof is supported well for the additional weight.

     My own house plans involve a staircase type roof,
supported by a joined timber frame, climbing north,
with each of the levels having a four foot wide bed on
it, with strawberries, self seeding mountain spinach,
and perenial herbs, except the area where the chimney
is; that will have stones, and metal water containers,
a fire axe, and extinguisher.
   Go, Adam, Go!  May you live long, and eat many strawberries.

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Let me just welcome the two of you as well, interestingly different though
your projects are.
May every stretch of urban concrete or suburban lawn begin the road back to
nature.
Adam, you might have already come across the posts of Robert Waldrop in
Oklahoma City, and his ongoing project there to create a forest garden,
while I doubt any roof would carry a forest your work with the parks
department may be shifted in that direction. The late Robert Hart in England
created an idyllic temperate forest garden see
http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/gdlovene.html for brief insight into his
work, if you haven't already come across it.  And Robert, thanks for the
vegetable suggestions, I'm still trying to find Arugula.
Roberto, your plans sound well advanced and well thought out.  I'm also
thinking of grafting, there are many native olive trees (Olea europaea)
self-seeded here that could be grafted with Lucque, a local, highly prized
eating olive (the wild olives are too small and bitter to be useful - though
I'd be interested to hear if anyone has found a use for them).
As far as grafting and Fukuoka, there's no need to worry. Even if Fukuoka
hadn't used grafted citrus stock in his orchard (which he did, see The
Natural Way of Farming) this group is about discovering what works, though
exactly what is and what isn't natural farming will be an ongoing discussion
I'm sure.
The building plans sound intriguing also, you and Adam seem intent on
bringing nature right up to and even within your homes. If you want to
discuss your ideas on building with a disparate group of fellow enthusiasts
you can't do better than Organic_Architecture, also on Yahoogroups.
And to Emilia: have you or someone you've known used Jean Pain's brushwood
compost?  It's an extraordinary idea that no additional water would be
needed all summer long, if possible I'd like to engineer the greatest chance
of success by choosing the most drought tolerant vegetables and the most
drought tolerant varieties of each: do you know a local supplier of such
seeds?  I have the Baumaux catalogue but do not know enough yet to be able
to make sensible decisions.


Souscayrous


----Original Message-----
From: roberto pokachinni [mailto:pokachinni@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 7:08 PM
To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Hello Adam

Hello Adam;

I'm new to this board as well.  I just wanted to say
that it's nice to hear of your work in N.Y.C..  It is
good to hear of a person with rural alternative
lifestyle ideas (fetishes, you say?) doing these
things in the civic structure.    Your's is the first
urban rooftop Fukuoka farm I've heard of.  It kinda
warms my heart.  I had a dream that all buildings
would someday be vegetated, so as to limit run off,
and increase the growing surface of the earth.  I hope
your roof is supported well for the additional weight.

     My own house plans involve a staircase type roof,
supported by a joined timber frame, climbing north,
with each of the levels having a four foot wide bed on
it, with strawberries, self seeding mountain spinach,
and perenial herbs, except the area where the chimney
is; that will have stones, and metal water containers,
a fire axe, and extinguisher.
   Go, Adam, Go!  May you live long, and eat many strawberries.

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REPLY:
"Fukuoka on the rooftops" is a great idea; it even sounds like the title of a
song. Green plants on the roof should lower the temperature inside the building
a few degrees, too, as well as sweetening the air.
Readers' interested in some fresh ideas on making architecture more "natural"
might want to look at two books published last year by the Architectural Press:
"Architecture in a Climate of Change: A Guide to Sustainable Design" by Peter
Smith, and "Ecohouse: A Design Guide" by Susan Roaf.  Smith shows ways that
retrofitting existing buildings can decrease reliance on fossil fuel and
decrease global warming. Roaf, designer of the "Oxford Energy House" surveys a
remarkable collection of  dwellings that approach zero-energy use and are
virtually autonomous. She has studied the tents of nomadic tribes as well as the
history of the ice house in England in an effort to build housing that works
with rather than against nature. One of the most remarkable houses she details
is a rather conventional looking island structure that has withstood category 4
hurricanes with little damage.
If all our houses consumed zero energy and we grew all or most of our food on
the same property (both on the ground and the roof--why not?) we would be well
on our way to achieving self-reliance.  Best of luck to all who try!

   souscayrous <souscayrous@...> wrote: Let me just welcome the two of you
as well, interestingly different though
your projects are.
May every stretch of urban concrete or suburban lawn begin the road back to
nature.
Adam, you might have already come across the posts of Robert Waldrop in
Oklahoma City, and his ongoing project there to create a forest garden,
while I doubt any roof would carry a forest your work with the parks
department may be shifted in that direction. The late Robert Hart in England
created an idyllic temperate forest garden see
http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/gdlovene.html for brief insight into his
work, if you haven't already come across it.  And Robert, thanks for the
vegetable suggestions, I'm still trying to find Arugula.
Roberto, your plans sound well advanced and well thought out.  I'm also
thinking of grafting, there are many native olive trees (Olea europaea)
self-seeded here that could be grafted with Lucque, a local, highly prized
eating olive (the wild olives are too small and bitter to be useful - though
I'd be interested to hear if anyone has found a use for them).
As far as grafting and Fukuoka, there's no need to worry. Even if Fukuoka
hadn't used grafted citrus stock in his orchard (which he did, see The
Natural Way of Farming) this group is about discovering what works, though
exactly what is and what isn't natural farming will be an ongoing discussion
I'm sure.
The building plans sound intriguing also, you and Adam seem intent on
bringing nature right up to and even within your homes. If you want to
discuss your ideas on building with a disparate group of fellow enthusiasts
you can't do better than Organic_Architecture, also on Yahoogroups.
And to Emilia: have you or someone you've known used Jean Pain's brushwood
compost?  It's an extraordinary idea that no additional water would be
needed all summer long, if possible I'd like to engineer the greatest chance
of success by choosing the most drought tolerant vegetables and the most
drought tolerant varieties of each: do you know a local supplier of such
seeds?  I have the Baumaux catalogue but do not know enough yet to be able
to make sensible decisions.


Souscayrous


----Original Message-----
From: roberto pokachinni [mailto:pokachinni@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 7:08 PM
To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Hello Adam

Hello Adam;

I'm new to this board as well.  I just wanted to say
that it's nice to hear of your work in N.Y.C..  It is
good to hear of a person with rural alternative
lifestyle ideas (fetishes, you say?) doing these
things in the civic structure.    Your's is the first
urban rooftop Fukuoka farm I've heard of.  It kinda
warms my heart.  I had a dream that all buildings
would someday be vegetated, so as to limit run off,
and increase the growing surface of the earth.  I hope
your roof is supported well for the additional weight.

     My own house plans involve a staircase type roof,
supported by a joined timber frame, climbing north,
with each of the levels having a four foot wide bed on
it, with strawberries, self seeding mountain spinach,
and perenial herbs, except the area where the chimney
is; that will have stones, and metal water containers,
a fire axe, and extinguisher.
   Go, Adam, Go!  May you live long, and eat many strawberries.

__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

REPLY:
"Fukuoka on the rooftops" is a great idea; it even sounds like the title of a
song. Green plants on the roof should lower the temperature inside the building
a few degrees, too, as well as sweetening the air.
Readers' interested in some fresh ideas on making architecture more "natural"
might want to look at two books published last year by the Architectural Press:
"Architecture in a Climate of Change: A Guide to Sustainable Design" by Peter
Smith, and "Ecohouse: A Design Guide" by Susan Roaf.  Smith shows ways that
retrofitting existing buildings can decrease reliance on fossil fuel and
decrease global warming. Roaf, designer of the "Oxford Energy House" surveys a
remarkable collection of  dwellings that approach zero-energy use and are
virtually autonomous. She has studied the tents of nomadic tribes as well as the
history of the ice house in England in an effort to build housing that works
with rather than against nature. One of the most remarkable houses she details
is a rather conventional looking island structure that has withstood category 4
hurricanes with little damage.
If all our houses consumed zero energy and we grew all or most of our food on
the same property (both on the ground and the roof--why not?) we would be well
on our way to achieving self-reliance.  Best of luck to all who try!

   souscayrous <souscayrous@...> wrote: Let me just welcome the two of you
as well, interestingly different though
your projects are.
May every stretch of urban concrete or suburban lawn begin the road back to
nature.
Adam, you might have already come across the posts of Robert Waldrop in
Oklahoma City, and his ongoing project there to create a forest garden,
while I doubt any roof would carry a forest your work with the parks
department may be shifted in that direction. The late Robert Hart in England
created an idyllic temperate forest garden see
http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/gdlovene.html for brief insight into his
work, if you haven't already come across it.  And Robert, thanks for the
vegetable suggestions, I'm still trying to find Arugula.
Roberto, your plans sound well advanced and well thought out.  I'm also
thinking of grafting, there are many native olive trees (Olea europaea)
self-seeded here that could be grafted with Lucque, a local, highly prized
eating olive (the wild olives are too small and bitter to be useful - though
I'd be interested to hear if anyone has found a use for them).
As far as grafting and Fukuoka, there's no need to worry. Even if Fukuoka
hadn't used grafted citrus stock in his orchard (which he did, see The
Natural Way of Farming) this group is about discovering what works, though
exactly what is and what isn't natural farming will be an ongoing discussion
I'm sure.
The building plans sound intriguing also, you and Adam seem intent on
bringing nature right up to and even within your homes. If you want to
discuss your ideas on building with a disparate group of fellow enthusiasts
you can't do better than Organic_Architecture, also on Yahoogroups.
And to Emilia: have you or someone you've known used Jean Pain's brushwood
compost?  It's an extraordinary idea that no additional water would be
needed all summer long, if possible I'd like to engineer the greatest chance
of success by choosing the most drought tolerant vegetables and the most
drought tolerant varieties of each: do you know a local supplier of such
seeds?  I have the Baumaux catalogue but do not know enough yet to be able
to make sensible decisions.


Souscayrous


----Original Message-----
From: roberto pokachinni [mailto:pokachinni@...]
Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 7:08 PM
To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Hello Adam

Hello Adam;

I'm new to this board as well.  I just wanted to say
that it's nice to hear of your work in N.Y.C..  It is
good to hear of a person with rural alternative
lifestyle ideas (fetishes, you say?) doing these
things in the civic structure.    Your's is the first
urban rooftop Fukuoka farm I've heard of.  It kinda
warms my heart.  I had a dream that all buildings
would someday be vegetated, so as to limit run off,
and increase the growing surface of the earth.  I hope
your roof is supported well for the additional weight.

     My own house plans involve a staircase type roof,
supported by a joined timber frame, climbing north,
with each of the levels having a four foot wide bed on
it, with strawberries, self seeding mountain spinach,
and perenial herbs, except the area where the chimney
is; that will have stones, and metal water containers,
a fire axe, and extinguisher.
   Go, Adam, Go!  May you live long, and eat many strawberries.

__________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was wodering if any of our European friends live
near any of the "Green belt Southern Europe" projects.
For people not familiar with this project. It is a
large scale plant restoration project started by Mr.
Fukuoka with European associates. This project
attempts to head off the spread of the desert into So.
Europe. Information about this project is on Jim
Bone's seedball web page. My point is if any of our
European friends are near a project area, then they
themselves could learn greatly from this project. In
turn they could relate this information to our group.
I've tried to e-mail the project but did not recieve
an answer. I don't know what the progress with this
project is. but I think it is worth pursuing.---
souscayrous <souscayrous@...> wrote:
> Let me just welcome the two of you as well,
> interestingly different though
> your projects are.
> May every stretch of urban concrete or suburban lawn
> begin the road back to
> nature.
> Adam, you might have already come across the posts
> of Robert Waldrop in
> Oklahoma City, and his ongoing project there to
> create a forest garden,
> while I doubt any roof would carry a forest your
> work with the parks
> department may be shifted in that direction. The
> late Robert Hart in England
> created an idyllic temperate forest garden see
> http://www.comp.leeds.ac.uk/pfaf/gdlovene.html for
> brief insight into his
> work, if you haven't already come across it.  And
> Robert, thanks for the
> vegetable suggestions, I'm still trying to find
> Arugula.
> Roberto, your plans sound well advanced and well
> thought out.  I'm also
> thinking of grafting, there are many native olive
> trees (Olea europaea)
> self-seeded here that could be grafted with Lucque,
> a local, highly prized
> eating olive (the wild olives are too small and
> bitter to be useful - though
> I'd be interested to hear if anyone has found a use
> for them).
> As far as grafting and Fukuoka, there's no need to
> worry. Even if Fukuoka
> hadn't used grafted citrus stock in his orchard
> (which he did, see The
> Natural Way of Farming) this group is about
> discovering what works, though
> exactly what is and what isn't natural farming will
> be an ongoing discussion
> I'm sure.
> The building plans sound intriguing also, you and
> Adam seem intent on
> bringing nature right up to and even within your
> homes. If you want to
> discuss your ideas on building with a disparate
> group of fellow enthusiasts
> you can't do better than Organic_Architecture, also
> on Yahoogroups.
> And to Emilia: have you or someone you've known used
> Jean Pain's brushwood
> compost?  It's an extraordinary idea that no
> additional water would be
> needed all summer long, if possible I'd like to
> engineer the greatest chance
> of success by choosing the most drought tolerant
> vegetables and the most
> drought tolerant varieties of each: do you know a
> local supplier of such
> seeds?  I have the Baumaux catalogue but do not know
> enough yet to be able
> to make sensible decisions.
>
>
> Souscayrous
>
>
> ----Original Message-----
> From: roberto pokachinni
> [mailto:pokachinni@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2002 7:08 PM
> To: fukuoka_farming@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [fukuoka_farming] Hello Adam
>
> Hello Adam;
>
> I'm new to this board as well.  I just wanted to say
> that it's nice to hear of your work in N.Y.C..  It
> is
> good to hear of a person with rural alternative
> lifestyle ideas (fetishes, you say?) doing these
> things in the civic structure.    Your's is the
> first
> urban rooftop Fukuoka farm I've heard of.  It kinda
> warms my heart.  I had a dream that all buildings
> would someday be vegetated, so as to limit run off,
> and increase the growing surface of the earth.  I
> hope
> your roof is supported well for the additional
> weight.
>
>     My own house plans involve a staircase type
> roof,
> supported by a joined timber frame, climbing north,
> with each of the levels having a four foot wide bed
> on
> it, with strawberries, self seeding mountain
> spinach,
> and perenial herbs, except the area where the
> chimney
> is; that will have stones, and metal water
> containers,
> a fire axe, and extinguisher.
>   Go, Adam, Go!  May you live long, and eat many
> strawberries.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail!
> http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> fukuoka_farming-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


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Please explain for those of us not familiar with this project.  I was not aware
there was a problem with desert spreading into So. Europe.  Can you elaborate?

Gloria
Texas
USA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gloria, and other fukuoka-ers, I'm not familiar with
the southern European desert spreading either, but I
don't know of any desert that is receding at this
point.  My understanding of it is that the desert
areas of Southern Europe used to be forested.  Areas
like Greece, Spain, Italy, all had forests, just as
much of the Sahara was once savana, and forests, just
like the Middle East. Have you checked out
Seedballs.com?  Jim Bones directed me from that site
to this group.  I just got off of Tom Elpel's web site
(hollowtop.com), where I read his article titled
something like "the american sahara" under his
wildflowers, and weeds section, which tells of what
his views are on desertification in the american west,
and what can be done about it using cattle to
revegetate sparsely vegetated arid formerly productive
areas.  I just thought I'd throw some hoofprints, and
cow dung into the fray of seedballs.  Pretty neat stuff.

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On 23 Jan 02, GLORIA  BAIKAUSKAS wrote:

> Please explain for those of us not familiar with this project.  I was
> not aware there was a problem with desert spreading into So. Europe.
> Can you elaborate?

If I remember rightly Gloria, in the collection of links at:
http://alternativ.net/landwirtschaft/neuland/fuko.html there is a lead
to an overview of the project.

Some of them are broken.

Cheerio... Rex

On 21 Jan 02, Brown Rice wrote:

> The Road Back to Nature and the Natural Way of Farming are notoriously
> difficult to find; there are a few public libraries that sometimes
> have them available, but you have to snatch them quick. They are also
> available via used book search, www.abebooks.com or bibliofind.com -
> they are always very expensive. There is a slower but more affordable
> option. The Other India Bookstore in Goa still publishes the book, and
> will ship them to you for a fair price, but they still work by slow
> mail. http://www.mnet.fr/aiindex/i_oibs/OIBS.html

"Touchwood Books" in New Zealand have recently been able to
supply the three english translated Fukuoka books, see:
http://touchwoodbooks.co.nz/tsustainable.html. My guess is they
are probably the Indian published versions??

Touchwood have a solid reputation here, the principal Peter Arthur is
foremost a farmer and dedicated farm forester, then bookseller.

Cheerio... Rex

The web site given by Mr.Teague has an interview with
Mr.Fukuoka called "Greening the desert". I believe
this web site is for a video group that has filmed the
Greenbelt So. Europe project and has videos for sale.
However I believe that they are only in German at the
present time. This is a great interview that I print
up along with Jim Bones "On a green mountain"
interview. I then give them to my friends and other
people to help explain Natural farming and seedballs
to interested people. They themselves can be great
tools to help spread this concept.--- GLORIA
BAIKAUSKAS <gcb49@...> wrote:
> Please explain for those of us not familiar with
> this project.  I was not aware there was a problem
> with desert spreading into So. Europe.  Can you
> elaborate?
>
> Gloria
> Texas
> USA
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


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My ol' buddy here is also named Adam, and he told me one day about
the meaning of the name.  It means "dirt".  So I find that you are
being more respectful toward that which you are named after.  Great
start! Peace

--- nottyboy9 <nottyboy9@...> wrote:
> My ol' buddy here is also named Adam, and he told me
> one day about
> the meaning of the name.  It means "dirt".  So I
> find that you are
> being more respectful toward that which you are
> named after.  Great
> start! Peace

a-ha, it's true.  It's from the Hebrew, meaning "dirt"
or "earth," but it's also the word for "man," as in
any man or the Biblical first man.  Tradition does
tell us, after all, that man (human) was formed from
the earth.  At least in one language we can still be
reminded of it.  thanks, nottyboy.
Adam


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