[url]http://www.pnwlocalnews.com/whidbey/wnt/news/79087352.html[/url]

`Druid' ruse lured Island County girl to be raped

By JESSIE STENSLAND
Whidbey News Times Assistant editor
Dec 11 2009, 4:05 PM ท UPDATED

A 53-year-old carnival worker is being held in Alabama on a $500,000 warrant out
of Island County for allegedly raping a girl numerous times after convincing her
that the sex acts were part of a Druid religion, court documents indicate.

Prosecutors charged Daniel Doherty, a former Oak Harbor resident, in Island
County Superior Court with one count of child molestation in the first degree,
one count of rape of a child in the first degree and 14 counts of rape of a
child in the second degree.

If convicted of the charges against him, Doherty could face more than 20 years
in prison under the standard sentencing range.

Detective Laura Price with the Island County Sheriff's Office investigated the
case after the alleged victim, who is now 21 years old, came to her office and
reported the abuse last month.

The woman claimed that Doherty raped and molested her from the ages of about 11
to 19. She said the sexual assaults were frequent, usually one or more times a
week.

"He convinced her that she should keep their relationship a secret, and that the
sexual acts were part of a Druid religion where they were pleasing the Goddess,
Epona," Price wrote.

The woman claimed Doherty sexually assaulted her every Equinox and Solstice in
"celebration," the report states. He told her that the sex acts "strengthened
the bond between Druid teacher and student," the detective wrote.

The woman described an incident in 2002 when she had friends sleeping over and
Doherty asked her to wake them so he could sexually assault them. When she
refused, he forcefully raped her on the couch, the report indicates.

Price wrote that Doherty left Whidbey Island in April of 2009 and moved to
Alabama, where he works for a carnival company. On Thursday, Price said Doherty
is in custody in Alabama on the Island County warrant, but she didn't know when
he will be sent to Island County. Of course, there's always a chance he will
make bail.
=====================================================
Is there anything to say beyond, I hope he serves a very long and horrific
prison term?

Eric Wolfsbane
Lokisgodhi

Thought someone might enjoy these.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU7gxTE_8NI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc8HU-isRUw

[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1233299/Church-leader-locked-10-yea\
r-old-daughter-away-tortured-boiling-plastic.html[/url]

British church leader tortured daughter, 10, with boiling plastic after becoming
convinced she was a witch

By Daily Mail Reporter
Last updated at 8:10 PM on 04th December 2009

An evangelist church leader who tortured his 10-year-old daughter and kept her
prisoner for four days with no food because he was convinced she was a witch was
jailed for eight-and-a-half years today.

The twisted 39-year-old, who cannot be named for legal reasons, dripped boiling
hot plastic over his terrified daughter's feet and beat her senseless after she
became 'possessed by evil spirits'.

The girl was held prisoner and force-fed olive oil and milk for four days after
the man became convinced she had powers to make people fall asleep, Coventry
Crown Court heard.

The Congolese-born man admitted child cruelty and was jailed for
eight-and-a-half years.

His second wife, the girl's step-mother, admitted wilful neglect of a child and
was jailed for four years last week.

Sentencing the man, Judge Peter Ross told him: 'Your daughter, in the last three
to four weeks that she lived with you was subjected to the most horrific
torture.

'She did not even have a bed to sleep on. You bound her, you gagged her, you
beat her, you whipped her and then kept her prisoner with no food.

'It is hard to imagine any man, let alone a father quite deliberately inflicting
such calculated cruelty on a child.

'It is your beliefs which led you to believe she was possessed by evil spirits.
These beliefs are frankly something an intelligent man would know were
nonsense.'

The court heard that the girl arrived in Britain from the Congo in May 2007 and
moved to live with her father and step-mother in Coventry.

Sally Hancox, prosecuting, told the court the girl was subjected to daily
beatings which included being hit with a piece of wood and whipped with computer
cables.

She said: 'The girl was singled out by her father. On one occasion he knelt down
in front of her so he could trap her foot before putting a plastic bag in a
candle and dripping the hot plastic onto her feet.'

The court heard the girl's hands were so badly burned after being held over a
candle the blisters protruded two inches out from her palms.

On another occasion the man cut his daughter's shoulder with a knife and smashed
her head against a wall before standing on her face.

The court heard the girl was kept prisoner in her home on May 21 last year when
she got into a fight at school with another pupil.

Her father locked her in her bedroom and forced her to drink olive oil and milk.
She was not given food for four days and only allowed to go to the toilet twice.

Miss Hancox said: 'When the officer examined her room he found clothes and
school bags sodden with urine. Obviously she had needed to relieve herself in
her room but attempted to hide it.'

The man sat impassively in the witness box and at points laughed when the crimes
against his daughter was read out.

The man was ordered to serve half his sentence before he is let out on license.
=======================================================
This is so sick and depraved that I'm almost at a loss for words. I hope the
inmate in whatever facility give him what the judge and the Crown did not.


Eric Wolfsbane
Lokisgodhi

-----Original Message-----
From: circletimes-bounces@...
[mailto:circletimes-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Circle
Sanctuary
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 2:28 PM
To: circletimes@...
Subject: [Circle Times] NEWS: Patrick McCollum & Equal Rights for
PaganChaplains

Patrick McCollum, an ordained Circle Sanctuary minister, director of the
Lady Liberty League Prison Ministry Task Force, and Pagan elder who has
helped many organizations, is in a Pagan rights federal court battle
centered on prison chaplaincy hiring issues.

An update about his case is now in the media:

ADL, AJC join brief on Wiccan clergyman
http://blogs.jta.org/politics/article/2009/12/01/1009477/adl-ajc-join-brief-
on-wiccan-clergyman

Americans United Urges Appeals Court To Give Prison-Chaplaincy Applicant His
Day In Court
http://www.au.org/media/press-releases/archives/2009/12/au-urges-appeals-cou
rt-to.html

McCollum v. California
http://wildhunt.org/blog/2009/12/mccollum-v-california-and-other-pagan-news-
of-note.html


Please send blessings and express words of support to Patrick:
http://www.circlesanctuary.org/healing/pmccollum/


Circle Times: Wednesday, December 02, 2009

_______________________________________________
CircleTimes mailing list
CircleTimes@...
http://www.circlesanctuary.org/mailman/listinfo/circletimes

[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8362367.stm[/url]

Edward Woodward died November 16th 2009. Not really Pagan content but sad news
nevertheless. Many Pagan's favorite movie would not have been possible without
him. His Sgt. Howie undoubtedly stood in for many real Christians who, as they
say in Texas, needed killing.

Farewell Mr. Woodward.

=====================
Eric Wolfsbane
Lokisgodhi

Join Lobo Di Noccento on Yahoo! Messenger.

Come chat with me, share files and more.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[url]http://perezhilton.com/2009-11-12-other-religious-leaders-call-out-the-cath\
olic-church[/url]

Other Religious Leaders Call Out The Catholic Church

After threatening to discontinue their social services through Catholic
Charities because of the same-sex marriage bill in Washington D.C, other
religious leaders are calling out the Catholic church for their disgraceful
actions.

Reverend Dr. Dennis W. Wiley, Pastor of the Covenant Baptist Church just
released the following statement:

     "Yesterday, the leadership of the Catholic Church made clear that they are
choosing a cynical political ploy over their call to serve the neediest among
the community.

     "Members of the Church hierarchy announced that they will prohibit Catholic
Charities from providing services to D.C. residents if the D.C. City Council
decides to recognize all married couples as equal under law. If it indeed takes
this step, the leadership of the Catholic Church will be turning their backs on
thousands of D.C. Catholics and other D.C. residents who embrace all of our
neighbors and seek to provide for them in times of need.

     "The Catholic Church hierarchy is at a crossroads: they must decide whether
they are in the charity business for charity's sake, or if imposing their will
on the D.C. City Council and the citizens of the District is their primary
interest."

So which is it?

Charity or hate?

Seems to us like it should be an obvious choice!
=================================================
More information from more credible sites:

[url]http://www.inquisitr.com/47500/catholic-archdiocese-in-d-c-may-stop-social-\
service-programs-due-to-gay-marriage-bill/[/url]

Great Cartoon. Must see!
[url]http://exchristian.net/2/2009/11/catholic-church-gives-washington.html[/url\
]
===================================================
Isn't having a Baptist minister say something like this one of the signs of the
apocalypse? Maybe the world *IS* ending in 2012.


Eric Wolfsbane
Lokisgodhi

[url]http://failblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/fail-owned-double-fail.jpg?w=50\
0&h=375[/url]

=======================================
Eric Wolfsbane
Lokisgodhi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FkbgeR8LKs

========================================
Eric Wolfsbane
Lokisgodhi

The thing with NewAge is that I really don't think they have groups per say. You
have a leader with or without a staff/entourage. They service clients, not a
group. It's about getting paid customers through the system. To lead such a
group a person has to be personable, basically a salesperson/confidence man
type.

I'm in a discussion regarding this on a blog. The discussion has turned to First
Nations people who are incensed about one of their rituals being used improperly
and the fear that it will cause the government to crack down on it's use by
them. They're being opposed by the fluff bunnies types who are aghast that
they're angry and feel the proprietors AND the participants got what they had
coming for messing with something they knew nothing about and not full of
sympathy for those who were hurt.

I can see both points but I'm leaning favor of the First Nations people. When
someone's a walking Darwin Award waiting to happen, I can't drum up a lot of
sympathy for them when it does. People who blindly follow gurus are usually
really sanctimonious and preachy. That makes it kind of hard to feel sorry for
them. Also the fact that these clowns had almost ten grand disposable income to
throw away on this retreat, doesn't help their case with me.



Eric Wolfsbane
Lokisgodhi


concetta renna wrote:

"I have had some very negative experiences personally with people
who are New Age groupies and also, with those who blindly follow New Age
teachings. There are hypocrites as well as dimwits in all kind of spiritual
circles and unfortunately, these people can be serious threats to the emotional,
spiritual and physical well-being of others. The missing elements in these
individuals seems to be intelligence and/or a sense of integrity and
accountability, and if they are in a leadership position, RESPONSIBILITY.

Some of the most ruthless and cold-hearted people whom I have ever
come into contact with are adherants of philosphies which would loosely fall
under the New Age banner. Please do not take my opinion to mean that I think
that followers of "traditional" religions are inherently more decent, as they
are not . It is very individual; however, I have been astounded by both the
cruelty and the stupidity of people who are supposed to be dissentors from trad
religions and yet they exhibit the same ignorant, conniving and egomanical
behaviour as the followers/leaders of traditional faiths.

I am very sorry for the deaths and illnesses of the people who
attended this sweat-lodge in the Sedona area; I hope that this is wake-up call
to everyone who belongs to a New Age group --- watch the behaviour of your
leaders and the sponsors of events. If they are people who's motives might be
dubious, keep your guard up, and above all do not entrust them with the
privilege of calling the shots in any matter that affects your well-being, on
any level. As I've said I have had some very bad personal experiences with some
of these types and also just general followers. People are people regardless of
what spiritual/philosophical/political groups that they allign with and blindly
trusting someone before they have earned your trust and loyality is not smart.
Watch what they do, not what they say.

I have had some very negative experiences personally with people
who are New Age groupies and also, with those who blindly follow New Age
teachings. There are hypocrites as well as dimwits in all kind of spiritual
circles and unfortunately, these people can be serious threats to the emotional,
spiritual and physical well-being of others. The missing elements in these
individuals seems to be intelligence and/or a sense of integrity and
accountability, and if they are in a leadership position, RESPONSIBILITY.

              Some of the most ruthless and cold-hearted people whom I have ever
come into contact with are adherants of philosphies which would loosely fall
under the New Age banner. Please do not take my opinion to mean that I think
that followers of "traditional" religions are inherently more decent, as they
are not . It is very individual; however, I have been astounded by both the
cruelty and the stupidity of people who are supposed to be dissentors from trad
religions and yet they exhibit the same ignorant, conniving and egomanical
behaviour as the followers/leaders of traditional faiths.

                I am very sorry for the deaths and illnesses of the people who
attended this sweat-lodge in the Sedona area; I hope that this is wake-up call
to everyone who belongs to a New Age group --- watch the behaviour of your
leaders and the sponsors of events. If they are people who's motives might be
dubious, keep your guard up, and above all do not entrust them with the
privilege of calling the shots in any matter that affects your well-being, on
any level. As I've said I have had some very bad personal experiences with some
of these types and also just general followers. People are people regardless of
what spiritual/philosophical/political groups that they allign with and blindly
trusting someone before they have earned your trust and loyality is not smart.
Watch what they do, not what they say.



To: fire@yahoogroups.com
From: loki57va@...
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 10:24:45 -0700
Subject: [fire] Sweat Lodge Incident





>
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/09/angel-valley-resort-sweat_n_316137.html
>
> Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge Incident: 2 Die, 19
> Overcome At Arizona Retreat

This case of deaths in a supposed spiritual retreat impresses me as similar to
the cases of serious injuries I've seen from fire walks. Large, for profit or
corporate group oriented big money operators cannot and do not pay attention to
medical issues most people don't honestly or fully disclose outside personal
trust groups, and cannot and do not do the preparation and screening process
where many people are not emotionally or physically ready for the "edge stress"
that's part of potentially positive transformation.

There's a precarious balance in our society where it's difficult to do many
beneficial and life changing spiritual practices without some economic
resources, whereas a focus on a profit motive isn't compatible with many of
these traditional practices. 64 people in a sweat lodge? A "spiritual leader"
sending Tweets during the event? As seen on TV promotions, with one event
budgets approaching a million dollars for a single retreat? Yeah, that arrogant
"guru" is really able to pay attention to the emotional, physical, and spiritual
states of all participants, and screen out those not really suited for it (can
you imagine a diabetic fasting in the woods?), or support those with other
special needs.

Interesting asides also from the tech folks, as to how Tweeters presume
technology works differently than it does. Old rules still apply, don't
broadcast anything unwise to broadcast, as even if a server copy goes away,
screen captures, manual or mental notes, or archive technologies are likely to
retain evidence.

I've never heard of such gross problems in a properly run sweat, fire walk, or
even more stressful retreat, done for spiritual reasons and with proper scale,
filters, and focus. There are times when it can take 4 people to support one in
various ways, and it's difficult to predict when or how support issues arise.
That's done better in my experience in dedicated, ongoing communities, not for
profit.

Terry

.









_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222986/direct/01/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/09/angel-valley-resort-sweat_n_316137.html
>
> Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge Incident: 2 Die, 19
> Overcome At Arizona Retreat

This case of deaths in a supposed spiritual retreat impresses me as similar to
the cases of serious injuries I've seen from fire walks.  Large, for profit or
corporate group oriented big money operators cannot and do not pay attention to
medical issues most people don't honestly or fully disclose outside personal
trust groups, and cannot and do not do the preparation and screening process
where many people are not emotionally or physically ready for the "edge stress"
that's part of potentially positive transformation.

There's a precarious balance in our society where it's difficult to do many
beneficial and life changing spiritual practices without some economic
resources, whereas a focus on a profit motive isn't compatible with many of
these traditional practices.  64 people in a sweat lodge?  A "spiritual leader"
sending Tweets during the event?  As seen on TV promotions, with one event
budgets approaching a million dollars for a single retreat?  Yeah, that arrogant
"guru" is really able to pay attention to the emotional, physical, and spiritual
states of all participants, and screen out those not really suited for it (can
you imagine a diabetic fasting in the woods?), or support those with other
special needs.

Interesting asides also from the tech folks, as to how Tweeters presume
technology works differently than it does.  Old rules still apply, don't
broadcast anything unwise to broadcast, as even if a server copy goes away,
screen captures, manual or mental notes, or archive technologies are likely to
retain evidence.

I've never heard of such gross problems in a properly run sweat, fire walk, or
even more stressful retreat, done for spiritual reasons and with proper scale,
filters, and focus.  There are times when it can take 4 people to support one in
various ways, and it's difficult to predict when or how support issues arise. 
That's done better in my experience in dedicated, ongoing communities, not for
profit.



Terry




.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/09/angel-valley-resort-sweat_n_316137.html

Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge Incident: 2 Die, 19 Overcome At Arizona Retreat

by FELICIA FONSECA

PHOENIX — A sauna-like sweat lodge at an Arizona resort meant to provide
spiritual cleansing became the scene of a police investigation Friday when more
than a dozen people became ill during a two-hour session and two later died.

In all, 21 of the 64 people crowded inside the sweat lodge Thursday evening
received medical care at hospitals and a fire station. Four remained
hospitalized Friday evening – one in critical condition and the others in fair
condition.

Authorities haven't determined the cause of the deaths and illnesses; tests for
carbon monoxide and other contaminants were negative. Yavapai County sheriff's
spokesman Dwight D'Evelyn said authorities were checking into whether any of the
attendees had medical conditions or were fasting.

Among those sickened were a middle-aged man and a woman who were unconscious,
according to a 911 call, and a third person who was found not breathing.

"It's not something you'd normally see at one of the resorts there, and it's
unfortunate regardless of the cause," D'Evelyn said.

Investigators were working to determine whether criminal actions might have been
a factor in the incident, D'Evelyn said.

The Angel Valley Retreat Center sits on 70 acres nestled in a scrub forest just
outside Sedona, a resort town 115 miles north of Phoenix that draws many in the
New Age spiritual movement.

Self-help expert and author James Arthur Ray rented the facility as part of his
"Spiritual Warrior" retreat that began Oct. 3 and that promised to "absolutely
change your life."

Ray spokesman Howard Bragman confirmed that his client was holding an event at
the retreat, as he has done in the past. Authorities said Ray was inside the
sweat lodge Thursday evening and was interviewed at the scene.

"We express our deepest condolences to those who lost friends and family, but we
pray for a speedy recovery for those who took ill," Bragman said. "At this point
there are more questions than answers, so it would not be appropriate to comment
further."

Sweat lodges, like that held on the final day of the Angel Valley retreat, are
commonly used by American Indian tribes to cleanse the body and prepare for
hunts, ceremonies and other events. The structure used Thursday was crudely
built and covered with tarps and blankets.

Stones are heated up outside a lodge, brought inside and placed in a pail-sized
hole. The door is closed, and water is poured on the stones, producing heat
aimed at releasing toxins in the body.

The ritual in sweat lodges is helpful in restoring balance and changing people's
attitudes and self-image, said Joseph Bruchac, author of "The Native American
Sweat Lodge: History and Legends."

People have died in sweat lodges in the past. They were either sick tribal
elders who voluntarily stayed until they died or people who had heart conditions
and were in poor health.

"The sweat lodge needs to be respected," Bruchac said. "When you imitate
someone's tradition and you don't know what you are doing, there's a danger of
doing something very wrong."

Ray's retreat schedule had few details about what participants could expect,
other than thrice-daily meals and group gatherings that started at 7 a.m. and
ended 16 hours later.

The details came in a lengthy release of liability that acknowledges
participants may suffer "physical, emotional, financial or other injuries" while
hiking or swimming, or during a multi-day personal and spiritual quest in the
wilderness without food or water or the sweat lodge.

Some participants told detectives they paid up to $9,000 for the event. Ray's
company, James Ray International, is based in Carlsbad, Calif.

Ray's posting on his Twitter account hours before the deaths said: "Still in
Spiritual Warrior ... for anything new to live something first must die. What
needs to die in you so that new life can emerge?"

The posting and two others were deleted Friday afternoon.

A woman who answered the phone at the Angel Valley resort Friday said its
founders, Michael and Amayra Hamilton, would have no comment. A call to the
Hamiltons' home went unanswered.

The Angel Valley Spiritual Retreat Center, built on former ranch property in the
high-desert and red-rock country of northern Arizona, bills itself as a natural
environment for self discovery and healing through a holistic approach aimed at
balancing the mind, emotions, body and spirit.

The property includes American Indian structures such as teepees, guest houses
and outdoor labyrinths made of stones.
============================
Okay, the report is in NewAge [rhymes with sewage] kills.

Eric Wolfsbane
Lokisgodhi

[url]http://freemarketblog.wordpress.com/2009/03/20/the-current-state-of-the-moj\
ave-desert-cross-war-memorial/[/url]

Here's some pictures of the memorial. One of how it was when originally built in
the 1930s and one now boxed up awaiting the SCOTUS decision.

Eric Wolfsbane
Lokisgodhi


--- In fire@yahoogroups.com, "openinquiry2001" <openinquiry2001@...> wrote:
>
> Yet another example of how the Supreme Court would rather sweep First
Amendment cases under the rug, instead of actually ENFORCING the First
Amendment.  Then again, the fact that Scalia can stay in the highest court in
the U.S. with the kinds of legal opinions he has just goes to show how
unimportant the First Amendment can be in this county.
>
>
>
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/08/scalia-defends-cross-on-p_n_313625.html

Yet another example of how the Supreme Court would rather sweep First Amendment
cases under the rug, instead of actually ENFORCING the First Amendment.  Then
again, the fact that Scalia can stay in the highest court in the U.S. with the
kinds of legal opinions he has just goes to show how unimportant the First
Amendment can be in this county.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/08/scalia-defends-cross-on-p_n_313625.html

Scalia Defends Cross On Public Land, Claims It Represents Everyone
MARK SHERMAN | 10/ 7/09 09:47 PM |

WASHINGTON — As the Supreme Court weighed a dispute over a religious symbol on
public land Wednesday, Justice Antonin Scalia was having difficulty
understanding how some people might feel excluded by a cross that was put up as
a memorial to soldiers killed in World War I.

"It's erected as a war memorial. I assume it is erected in honor of all of the
war dead," Scalia said of the cross that the Veterans of Foreign Wars built 75
years ago atop an outcropping in the Mojave National Preserve. "What would you
have them erect?...Some conglomerate of a cross, a Star of David, and you know,
a Muslim half moon and star?"

Peter Eliasberg, the American Civil Liberties Union lawyer arguing the case,
explained that the cross is the predominant symbol of Christianity and commonly
used at Christian grave sites, not that the devoutly Catholic Scalia needed to
be told that.

"I have been in Jewish cemeteries," Eliasberg continued. "There is never a cross
on a tombstone of a Jew."

There was mild laughter in the packed courtroom, but not from Scalia.

"I don't think you can leap from that to the conclusion that the only war dead
that that cross honors are the Christian war dead. I think that's an outrageous
conclusion," Scalia said, clearly irritated by the exchange.

The court is considering whether the cross' presence on the land violates the
Constitution, despite Congress' decision to transfer the land on which the cross
sits to private ownership.

Scalia made plain his view of the case, strongly suggesting that he sees no
problem with the cross at all. By contrast, lower federal courts did find a
constitutional violation and were not persuaded that the land transfer fixed the
problem.

The cross has been covered with plywood for the past several years following the
court rulings. Court papers describe the cross as being 5 feet to 8 feet tall.

Although Scalia's take on the dispute seemed clear, the case appeared to
diminish in importance as the hourlong argument continued.

Rather than serve as a statement about the separation of church and state or
even how people get past the courthouse door to challenge religious symbols on
government land, the case could end up focused narrowly on the land transfer.

Even on that issue, the court appeared divided between conservatives and
liberals.

Several conservative justices seemed open to the Obama administration's argument
that Congress' decision to transfer to private ownership the land on which the
cross sits ends any government endorsement of the cross and takes care of the
constitutional questions.

"Isn't that a sensible interpretation" of a court order prohibiting the cross'
display on government property? Justice Samuel Alito asked.

The liberal justices, on the other hand, indicated that they agree with a
federal appeals court that ruled that the land transfer was a sort of end-run
around the First Amendment prohibition against government endorsement of
religion.

Justice Anthony Kennedy, often the decisive vote in these cases, said nothing to
tip his hand.

Veterans groups are on both sides of the case, with some worrying that other
religious symbols that serve as war memorials could be threatened by a ruling
against the Mojave cross.

Eliasberg, who represents the former National Park Service employee who sued
over the cross, said their fears are misplaced. He said two prominent symbols in
Arlington National Cemetery, the Argonne Cross Memorial and Canadian Cross of
Sacrifice, are different.

Context matters, Eliasberg said, noting that the Veterans Administration offers
a choice of 39 different emblems and beliefs on tombstones at Arlington.

Jewish and Muslim veterans, by contrast, object that the Mojave cross honors
Christian veterans and excludes others.

Whatever the court decides, it seems unlikely that the Mojave cross – where
Easter Sunrise services have been held for decades – would have to come down.

Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg indicated, and Eliasberg agreed, that even if the
court finds problems with what Congress did, lawmakers probably could find a
valid way to sell or give the land to veterans groups.

A decision is expected by spring.

The case is Salazar v. Buono, 08-472.

Some nation really needs to declare war on them, as they are recognized as a
sovereign state, launch an invasion and then do a clean-up of the whole
organization.

====================================
Eric Wolfsbane
Lokisgodhi






--- In fire@yahoogroups.com, "openinquiry2001" <openinquiry2001@...> wrote:
>
> This just in, from Salon.com.  To learn more about the IHEU at the UN Human
Rights Council and its accusations against the Vatican, go to:
http://www.iheu.org/iheu-calls-vatican-recognize-its-responsibilities-children-a\
nd-under-un-convention.
>
>
>
> http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/10/07/vatican/
>
> What is the Vatican, exactly?
> The pope's UN rep swats away questions about sexual abuse -- and raises
questions about the church's special status
> By Frances Kissling
>
> Oct. 07, 2009
>
> There's little doubt that the 2002 sex abuse scandal in the Catholic church
brought out the worst in official and some unofficial Catholic circles. Coverups
and unconvincing explanations about why pedophile priests were routinely
transferred to new parishes where they could continue to abuse children were the
order of the day. While the U.S. bishops fairly quickly established a commission
and put in place policies to prevent future abuse, they pretty much continued to
claim innocence as more and more dioceses faced lawsuits for the coverups.
>
> The Vatican was even less nimble. Pope John Paul II came in for heavy
criticism for his handling of the scandal and for Vatican policies that used
diplomatic immunity as well as orders of secrecy to suppress information and
limit legal exposure. For John Paul II being pope seemed to mean never having to
say you are sorry.
>
> Benedict XVI made up for some of his predecessor's actions by not only
apologizing but meeting with abuse survivors on his 2008 U.S. visit. But any
goodwill the Vatican gained was eroded when Archbishop Silvano Tomasi lashed out
at criticism of the Vatican's handling of clergy sexual abuse at last week's
meeting of the U.N. Human Rights Council in Geneva. In a petulant written
statement Tomasi, identified in media reports as the Vatican's representative to
the U.N. but known within the Vatican by the strange title of Ambassador to
Nowhere, became the Ambassador from Hell, repeating nearly every shibboleth the
Vatican and its apologists have used to minimize clergy sexual abuse over the
past decade. And Tomasi's statement also exemplified the odd role that the
Vatican plays in the U.N. He was exercising the Vatican's "right to reply" as a
"Non-member State Permanent Observer" to a complaint brought by an NGO. But is
the Vatican really a state? For a long time, the Vatican has sought to have its
cake and eat it too, enjoying the privileges of statehood without the
responsibilities. Now the issue of child abuse has laid the contradictions bare.
>
> Tomasi was responding to a charge brought to the U.N. Human Rights Council by
the International Humanist and Ethical Union, alleging that the church had
covered up abuse and allowed it to continue. Tomasi recited a familiar, and
disappointing, litany. The problem is minor, the Catholic church is being picked
on while other religious groups that are more abusive are ignored by the media
and, of course, homosexuals, not pedophiles or bishops, are to blame. Outraged
that anyone would question the church's intentions, Tomasi noted that "the
church has been busy cleaning its own house" and suggested "it would be good if
other institutions and authorities where the major part of the abuses are
reported could do the same and inform the media about it."
>
> In an unscientific critique reminiscent of Vatican claims that condoms don't
prevent AIDS because they have little holes in them, Tomasi argued that it would
be more appropriate to consider the problem one of homosexuality rather than
pedophilia: "While many speak of child abuse, it would be more correct to speak
of ephebophilia, being a homosexual attraction to adolescent males. Of all
priests involved in the abuses, 80 to 90 percent belong to this sexual
orientation minority which is sexually engaged with adolescent boys between 11
and 17 years old." Of course, 11-year-olds are not adolescents, but the
archbishop seemed ignorant of the basic principle that sex between an authority
figure and anyone in his or her care of any age is an abuse of power.
>
> And he seemed totally oblivious to the fact that the reason he was called on
the U.N. carpet had far more to do with the Vatican's failure to protect
children from such abuse. As recently as 2004 Pope John Paul II granted a
special audience to Father Marcial Maciel, the Mexican priest who founded the
right wing group the Legion of Christ and had been repeatedly and credibly
accused of child sexual abuse since the 1970s. It was Benedict who finally had
enough of Maciel and ordered him in 2006 to retire quietly to a life of prayer
and initiated an investigation of the charges of sexually abusing young
seminarians as well as fathering three or four children and supporting them with
the order's money. Not a single bishop has faced serious repercussions for his
role in covering up sexual abuse. Boston's Cardinal Law was forced to resign as
archbishop of Boston but given a sweet job in Rome as the titular cardinal of
Santa Susanna, the American Catholic church in Rome.
>
> It is unsurprising, then, that for years NGOs interested in separation of
church and state have criticized the Vatican's special status within the U.N.,
calling it a violation of the separation of church and state. The Vatican is the
U.N.'s sole Non-member State Permanent Observer, giving it all the privileges of
a member state except voting. No other religious body enjoys this status in the
U.N., and some would say its claim to statehood rests on shaky grounds.
>
> The 1933 Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States defined the
four criteria of statehood -- permanent population, defined territory,
government and the ability to enter into diplomatic relations. On the first
count, the Vatican fails miserably. There is no permanent population at all.
There are fewer than 1,000 residents and "citizenship" is temporary. One holds
it only so long as one has a job or function related to the Vatican. Its
territory is defined, though it occupies less than half a square kilometer in
the center of Rome, but its governing capacity is minimal. The Vatican depends
on the Italian government for most civic services, from garbage collection to
healthcare and policing. And while the U.N. has no requirement that governments
be democratic, the idea of a government run by an infallible head of state
elected for life by a small group of men is a bit strange.
>
> Even the Vatican admits its role in the U.N. is strange. "The Holy See finds
itself in a particular situation because it is spiritual in nature. Its
authority which is religious and not political extends over one billion persons
throughout the world ... Its strength ... consists in the respect that its
words, its teachings and its policy enjoy in the conscience of the Catholic
world ... The real and only realm of the Holy See is the realm of conscience."
>
> Sounds pretty much like an admission that the Vatican/Holy See is not a state.
And yet, it has defended its right to participate in the U.N. as a state while
seeking to have its cake and eat it as well. For the most part, the U.N. goes
along. After all, on a number of traditional issues, the Vatican lends
credibility to the peaceful objectives of the U.N. and to an emphasis on
eradicating poverty. But in many areas, the Vatican uses its special privileges
to obstruct more modern consensus on the usual issues -- contraception, condoms,
women's rights and stem-cell research. And although the Vatican signs some U.N.
treaties and conventions, it refuses to be held accountable.
>
> This was the crux of the IHEU complaints before the Human Rights Council. The
Vatican has signed the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which calls for
all states to protect children from sexual abuse. Not only has the Vatican
failed to do that, according to the IHEU it has actively engaged in practices
that put children at risk. IHEU cites actions that include claiming that
children and their parents have lied about abuse, failing to inform civil
authorities of accusations of abuse and impeding investigations by transferring
priests accused of abuse out of the country. On a minor level, it has neglected
since 1994 to file the reports on the status of children in its "state" required
of signatories every five years. IHEU calls on the Human Rights Council and the
Committee on the Rights of the Child to open up all Vatican records on child
abuse and permit CRC workers to interview workers with knowledge of these
matters.
>
> Lawyers for victims of clergy sex abuse in Ireland and the U.S. have sought to
use the deposition process to gain access to the Vatican records without success
as the Vatican uses diplomatic immunity to prevent any investigation of its role
in covering up clergy sex abuse. It will be interesting to see if the United
Nations will have any greater success or even try to get the Vatican to comply
with the Convention on the Rights of the Child. Wasn't it Jesus who said "suffer
the little children to come to me" and "what you do unto the least of mine, you
have done unto me"? Who would have thought it would take the U.N. to get the
Catholic church to listen?
>

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/10/07/New-stone-circle-unearthed-near-Stoneheng\
e/UPI-66211254936492/

New stone circle unearthed near Stonehenge
Published: Oct. 7, 2009 at 1:28 PM

The discovery of a second stone circle in England just a mile from Stonehenge is
one of the most important prehistoric finds in decades, archaeologists say.

The new site has been dubbed "Bluehenge" because of the color of the giant
stones from Wales that once stood at the end of a pathway connecting Stonehenge
to the river Avon, Britain's Daily Mail reported Wednesday.

University of Bristol archaeologist Joshua Pollard told CNN the new find
establishes Stonehenge as part of a larger ceremonial complex linked to the
nearby River Avon.

Mike Parker Pearson of the University of Sheffield says Bluehenge was the place
where the dead began their final journey to Stonehenge.

"We thought we knew it all, but over the last few years we have discovered that
something as familiar as Stonehenge is still a challenge to explore and
understand," said Tim Darvill, a Stonehenge expert at Bournemouth University.

ฉ 2009 United Press International, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
=============================================================
Eric Wolfsbane
Lokisgodhi

This just in, from Salon.com.  To learn more about the IHEU at the UN Human
Rights Council and its accusations against the Vatican, go to:
http://www.iheu.org/iheu-calls-vatican-recognize-its-responsibilities-children-a\
nd-under-un-convention.



http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/10/07/vatican/

What is the Vatican, exactly?
The pope's UN rep swats away questions about sexual abuse -- and raises
questions about the church's special status
By Frances Kissling

Oct. 07, 2009

There's little doubt that the 2002 sex abuse scandal in the Catholic church
brought out the worst in official and some unofficial Catholic circles. Coverups
and unconvincing explanations about why pedophile priests were routinely
transferred to new parishes where they could continue to abuse children were the
order of the day. While the U.S. bishops fairly quickly established a commission
and put in place policies to prevent future abuse, they pretty much continued to
claim innocence as more and more dioceses faced lawsuits for the coverups.

The Vatican was even less nimble. Pope John Paul II came in for heavy criticism
for his handling of the scandal and for Vatican policies that used diplomatic
immunity as well as orders of secrecy to suppress information and limit legal
exposure. For John Paul II being pope seemed to mean never having to say you are
sorry.

Benedict XVI made up for some of his predecessor's actions by not only
apologizing but meeting with abuse survivors on his 2008 U.S. visit. But any
goodwill the Vatican gained was eroded when Archbishop Silvano Tomasi lashed out
at criticism of the Vatican's handling of clergy sexual abuse at last week's
meeting of the U.N. Human Rights Council in Geneva. In a petulant written
statement Tomasi, identified in media reports as the Vatican's representative to
the U.N. but known within the Vatican by the strange title of Ambassador to
Nowhere, became the Ambassador from Hell, repeating nearly every shibboleth the
Vatican and its apologists have used to minimize clergy sexual abuse over the
past decade. And Tomasi's statement also exemplified the odd role that the
Vatican plays in the U.N. He was exercising the Vatican's "right to reply" as a
"Non-member State Permanent Observer" to a complaint brought by an NGO. But is
the Vatican really a state? For a long time, the Vatican has sought to have its
cake and eat it too, enjoying the privileges of statehood without the
responsibilities. Now the issue of child abuse has laid the contradictions bare.

Tomasi was responding to a charge brought to the U.N. Human Rights Council by
the International Humanist and Ethical Union, alleging that the church had
covered up abuse and allowed it to continue. Tomasi recited a familiar, and
disappointing, litany. The problem is minor, the Catholic church is being picked
on while other religious groups that are more abusive are ignored by the media
and, of course, homosexuals, not pedophiles or bishops, are to blame. Outraged
that anyone would question the church's intentions, Tomasi noted that "the
church has been busy cleaning its own house" and suggested "it would be good if
other institutions and authorities where the major part of the abuses are
reported could do the same and inform the media about it."

In an unscientific critique reminiscent of Vatican claims that condoms don't
prevent AIDS because they have little holes in them, Tomasi argued that it would
be more appropriate to consider the problem one of homosexuality rather than
pedophilia: "While many speak of child abuse, it would be more correct to speak
of ephebophilia, being a homosexual attraction to adolescent males. Of all
priests involved in the abuses, 80 to 90 percent belong to this sexual
orientation minority which is sexually engaged with adolescent boys between 11
and 17 years old." Of course, 11-year-olds are not adolescents, but the
archbishop seemed ignorant of the basic principle that sex between an authority
figure and anyone in his or her care of any age is an abuse of power.

And he seemed totally oblivious to the fact that the reason he was called on the
U.N. carpet had far more to do with the Vatican's failure to protect children
from such abuse. As recently as 2004 Pope John Paul II granted a special
audience to Father Marcial Maciel, the Mexican priest who founded the right wing
group the Legion of Christ and had been repeatedly and credibly accused of child
sexual abuse since the 1970s. It was Benedict who finally had enough of Maciel
and ordered him in 2006 to retire quietly to a life of prayer and initiated an
investigation of the charges of sexually abusing young seminarians as well as
fathering three or four children and supporting them with the order's money. Not
a single bishop has faced serious repercussions for his role in covering up
sexual abuse. Boston's Cardinal Law was forced to resign as archbishop of Boston
but given a sweet job in Rome as the titular cardinal of Santa Susanna, the
American Catholic church in Rome.

It is unsurprising, then, that for years NGOs interested in separation of church
and state have criticized the Vatican's special status within the U.N., calling
it a violation of the separation of church and state. The Vatican is the U.N.'s
sole Non-member State Permanent Observer, giving it all the privileges of a
member state except voting. No other religious body enjoys this status in the
U.N., and some would say its claim to statehood rests on shaky grounds.

The 1933 Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States defined the
four criteria of statehood -- permanent population, defined territory,
government and the ability to enter into diplomatic relations. On the first
count, the Vatican fails miserably. There is no permanent population at all.
There are fewer than 1,000 residents and "citizenship" is temporary. One holds
it only so long as one has a job or function related to the Vatican. Its
territory is defined, though it occupies less than half a square kilometer in
the center of Rome, but its governing capacity is minimal. The Vatican depends
on the Italian government for most civic services, from garbage collection to
healthcare and policing. And while the U.N. has no requirement that governments
be democratic, the idea of a government run by an infallible head of state
elected for life by a small group of men is a bit strange.

Even the Vatican admits its role in the U.N. is strange. "The Holy See finds
itself in a particular situation because it is spiritual in nature. Its
authority which is religious and not political extends over one billion persons
throughout the world ... Its strength ... consists in the respect that its
words, its teachings and its policy enjoy in the conscience of the Catholic
world ... The real and only realm of the Holy See is the realm of conscience."

Sounds pretty much like an admission that the Vatican/Holy See is not a state.
And yet, it has defended its right to participate in the U.N. as a state while
seeking to have its cake and eat it as well. For the most part, the U.N. goes
along. After all, on a number of traditional issues, the Vatican lends
credibility to the peaceful objectives of the U.N. and to an emphasis on
eradicating poverty. But in many areas, the Vatican uses its special privileges
to obstruct more modern consensus on the usual issues -- contraception, condoms,
women's rights and stem-cell research. And although the Vatican signs some U.N.
treaties and conventions, it refuses to be held accountable.

This was the crux of the IHEU complaints before the Human Rights Council. The
Vatican has signed the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which calls for
all states to protect children from sexual abuse. Not only has the Vatican
failed to do that, according to the IHEU it has actively engaged in practices
that put children at risk. IHEU cites actions that include claiming that
children and their parents have lied about abuse, failing to inform civil
authorities of accusations of abuse and impeding investigations by transferring
priests accused of abuse out of the country. On a minor level, it has neglected
since 1994 to file the reports on the status of children in its "state" required
of signatories every five years. IHEU calls on the Human Rights Council and the
Committee on the Rights of the Child to open up all Vatican records on child
abuse and permit CRC workers to interview workers with knowledge of these
matters.

Lawyers for victims of clergy sex abuse in Ireland and the U.S. have sought to
use the deposition process to gain access to the Vatican records without success
as the Vatican uses diplomatic immunity to prevent any investigation of its role
in covering up clergy sex abuse. It will be interesting to see if the United
Nations will have any greater success or even try to get the Vatican to comply
with the Convention on the Rights of the Child. Wasn't it Jesus who said "suffer
the little children to come to me" and "what you do unto the least of mine, you
have done unto me"? Who would have thought it would take the U.N. to get the
Catholic church to listen?

Oh, if anyone would like to write or call the Passaic County Prosecutors Office
and let them know what scumbags they are for this, here's the contact
information.

401 GRAND STREET, PATERSON, NJ 07505
PHONE (973) 881-4800

http://www.pcponj.org/PDF/Form%20Of%20Press%20Release%207_7_09.pdf


========================================================
Eric Wolfsbane
Lokisgodhi

That's why I only fly fish.

Eric Wolfsbane
Lokisgodhi




--- In fire@yahoogroups.com, Kaatryn MacMorgan-Douglas <kaatryn@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for this. The charges here are nonsense. By this point of
> view, my mom and I were abusing my son when we took him fishing...
>
> WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE INNOCENT WORMS!
>
> Eric wrote:
> >
> >
> > http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/NJsanteriaendangermentcase/
> > <http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/NJsanteriaendangermentcase/>
> >
> > Petition to drop the charges in New Jersey Santeria Child endangerment case
> >
> > ========================================================
> > Eric Wolfsbane
> > Lokisgodhi
> >
> >
>

Thank you for this. The charges here are nonsense. By this point of
view, my mom and I were abusing my son when we took him fishing...

WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE INNOCENT WORMS!

Eric wrote:
>
>
> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/NJsanteriaendangermentcase/
> <http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/NJsanteriaendangermentcase/>
>
> Petition to drop the charges in New Jersey Santeria Child endangerment case
>
> ========================================================
> Eric Wolfsbane
> Lokisgodhi
>
>

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/NJsanteriaendangermentcase/

Petition to drop the charges in New Jersey Santeria Child endangerment case


========================================================
Eric Wolfsbane
Lokisgodhi

Okay Crusaders,

How are you all planning to deal with the Islamic menace?

Mass deportations? Forced sterilizations, Ethnic Cleansing?


Eric Wolfsbane

Lokisgodhi












--- In fire@yahoogroups.com, concetta renna <LadyMirenna@...> wrote:
>
>
> Unfortunately, the incident cited in the link below is certainly not an
isolated incident, as the U.K. has been intimidated for years by this form of
Islamo-fascist thuggery. I am just very happy that I got to visit England before
it became a hotbed for mindless, politico-religious fanaticism. It is why
American should not emulate  U.K. Political Policies. These victimized
business-owners can very easily be me or you, if, and when, this type of mob
behaviour becomes more tolerated in the U.S. At the rate we are going, this
seems highly probable.
>
> 
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/09/uk-christian-couple-charged-with-criminal-offe\
nse-after-offending-
>
> > To: fire@yahoogroups.com
> > From: LadyMirenna@...
> > Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:29:02 -0400
> > Subject: RE: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
> >
> >
> >
> > Yep, Jay, good references; these two religions can share the common thread
of total mindlessness; but, just as I have met people who profess to be Muslim
yet seem to be rationale people who view Allah as a god of love, I know
Christians who also took the best from Jesus' message and try to live by just
principles. Some people are naturally of a higher mind and spirit, regardless of
the source of their understanding. Blessed Be.
> >
> >
> > To: fire@yahoogroups.com
> > From: jaymthegenius@...
> > Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 07:13:14 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm dealing with a Muslim extremist in another Yahoo! group (I can make a
seperate post for it). However Saint Augustine has said it's no longer necessary
to think and Islam does share some routes with Christianity:
> >
> > Here are some quotes just from Saint Augustine:
> >
> > "There is another form of temptation, even more fraught with danger. This is
the disease of curiosity...
> >
> > It
> > is this which drives us to try to discover the secrets of nature, those
> > secrets beyond our understanding, which can avail us nothing and which
> > men should not wish to learn..."
> > - St. Augustine
> >
> > "What we
> > now call the Christian religion existed amongst the ancients, and was
> > from the beginning of the human race, until Christ Himself came in the
> > flesh; from which time the already existing true religion began to be
> > styled Christian".
> >
> > ?St. Augustine
> >
> > "The Emperor has a duty to suppress schism and heresy" -St.Augustine
> >
> > Since God knows everything, everything is predetermined by him forever."
> >
> > "Freedom is freedom to err." ?St Augustine
> >
> > Scripture gives no false information.?
> >
> > "Since God has spoken to us it is no longer necessary for us to think." ?St
Augustine
> >
> > "...so
> > poor is all the useful knowledge which is gathered from the books of
> > the heathen when compared with the knowledge of Holy Scripture,
> > For
> > whatever man may have learnt from other sources, if it is hurtful, it
> > is there condemned; if it is useful, it is therein contained...
> > he
> > will find there in much greater abundance things that are to be found
> > nowhere else, but can be learnt only in the wonderful sublimity and
> > wonderful simplicity of the Scriptures."
> >
> > ?St. Augustine (354-430), De Doctrina Christiana, 2,42 "Sacred Scripture
Compared with Profane Authors"
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: concetta renna <LadyMirenna@...>
> > To: fire@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:49:50 PM
> > Subject: RE: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
> >
> > Hi, Jay --- I think because these are not thinking people. They are
brainwashed at birth to honor their non-secular political leaders and are
forbidden to have any independent views on anything. I also really don't see the
correlation that some pagans try to make b/w the oppression of pagans and the
"oppression" of muslims in the western hemesphere.
> >
> > The freedom of religion that the West tries to impart was not meant to be a
free-for-all for anyone who wants to get their mindless, sadistic jollies off
under the guise of a "religious" philosophy. As far as I can see, in the Islamic
religions, women and children are used as literal whipping boys for adult males
to vent their pent-up political and sexual frustrations on.
> >
> > My question lately has been "What is a moderate muslim? Is this a man who
interprets the Koran to mean that he can behead a wife only once in his lifetime
as opposed to as many times to his multiple wives as he and his imam deem
neccessary?
> >
> > To: fire@yahoogroups.com
> > From: jaymthegenius@...
> > Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:28:43 -0700
> > Subject: Re: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
> >
> > Why don't muslims react like this with regard to a muslim raping someone in
the country they are illegally squatting on or denounce stoning of witches and
gay's?
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: concetta renna <LadyMirenna@...>
> > To: fire@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 3:56:28 PM
> > Subject: RE: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
> >
> > "Republication of the cartoons has repeatedly resulted in violence around
the world, leading to more than 200 deaths and hundreds of injuries, the
statement said."
> >
> > Islam is subjected to the same scrutiny and satire as any other religion in
the world. Why does this Mohammaden philosophy regard itself as being above
average treatment?
> > I guess if Islam is trying to promote itself as a "religion of peace' by
killing and maiming people who might question its motives, it is kind of
reinforcing its own sterotype. Not too bright, I might add.
> >
> > I've seen many of these cartoons that are in question and personally, I
think that they are hilarious. I also think that it says a lot about the moral
fiber of civilized people who would rather retaliate against a violent enemy by
using a cartoon as opposed to a sword.
> >
> > There are girls and women in our Western Hemisphere who have been brutally
hurt, murdered, or live with the daily threat of such, while under the control
of the misogynistic philosophy of Islam. They do not, unfortunately, even have
the luxury of finding any humor in any of this.
> >
> > To: fire@yahoogroups.com
> > From: openinquiry2001@...
> > Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:22:22 +0000
> > Subject: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
> >
> > From the Associated Press:
> >
> > http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090908/ap_on_re_us/us_prophet_drawings_yale
> >
> > Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
> > By JOHN CHRISTOFFERSEN, Associated Press Writer John Christoffersen,
Associated Press Writer
> > Tue Sep 8, 10:41 am ET
> >
> > NEW HAVEN, Conn. ?Yale University has removed cartoons of the Prophet
Muhammad from an upcoming book about how they caused outrage across the Muslim
world, drawing criticism from prominent alumni and a national group of
university professors.
> >
> > Yale cited fears of violence.
> >
> > Yale University Press, which the university owns, removed the 12 caricatures
from the book "The Cartoons That Shook the World" by Brandeis University
professor Jytte Klausen. The book is scheduled to be released next week.
> >
> > A Danish newspaper originally published the cartoons ?including one
depicting Muhammad wearing a bomb-shaped turban ?in 2005. Other Western
publications reprinted them.
> >
> > The following year, the cartoons triggered massive protests from Morocco to
Indonesia. Rioters torched Danish and other Western diplomatic missions. Some
Muslim countries boycotted Danish products.
> >
> > Islamic law generally opposes any depiction of the prophet, even favorable,
for fear it could lead to idolatry.
> >
> > "I think it's horrifying that the campus of Nathan Hale has become the first
place where America surrenders to this kind of fear because of what extremists
might possibly do," said Michael Steinberg, an attorney and Yale graduate.
> >
> > Steinberg was among 25 alumni who signed a protest letter sent Friday to
Yale Alumni Magazine that urged the university to restore the drawings to the
book. Other signers included John Bolton, a former U.S. ambassador to the United
Nations under President George W. Bush, former Bush administration speechwriter
David Frum and Seth Corey, a liberal doctor.
> >
> > "I think it's intellectual cowardice," Bolton said Thursday. "I think it's
very self defeating on Yale's part. To me it's just inexplicable."
> >
> > Cary Nelson, president of the American Association of University Professors,
wrote in a recent letter that Yale's decision effectively means: "We do not
negotiate with terrorists. We just accede to their anticipated demands."
> >
> > In a statement explaining the decision, Yale University Press said it
decided to exclude a Danish newspaper page of the cartoons and other depictions
of Muhammad after asking the university for help on the issue. It said the
university consulted counterterrorism officials, diplomats and the top Muslim
official at the United Nations.
> >
> > "The decision rested solely on the experts' assessment that there existed a
substantial likelihood of violence that might take the lives of innocent
victims," the statement said.
> >
> > Republication of the cartoons has repeatedly resulted in violence around the
world, leading to more than 200 deaths and hundreds of injuries, the statement
said. It also noted that major newspapers in the United states and Britain have
declined to print the cartoons.
> >
> > "Yale and Yale University Press are deeply committed to freedom of speech
and expression, so the issues raised here were difficult," the statement said.
"The press would never have reached the decision it did on the grounds that some
might be offended by portrayals of the Prophet Muhammad."
> >
> > John Donatich, director of Yale University Press, said the critics are
"grandstanding." He said it was not a case of censorship because the university
did not suppress original content that was not available in other places.
> >
> > "I would never have agreed to censor original content," Donatich said.
> >
> > Klausen was surprised by the decision when she learned of it in July. She
said scholarly reviewers and Yale's publication committee comprised of faculty
recommended the cartoons be included.
> >
> > "I'm extremely upset about that," Klausen said.
> >
> > The experts Yale consulted did not read the manuscript, Klausen said. She
said she consulted Muslim leaders and did not believe including the cartoons in
a scholarly debate would spark violence.
> >
> > Klausen said she reluctantly agreed to have the book published without the
images because she did not believe any other university press would publish
them, and she hopes Yale will include them in later editions. She argues in the
book that there is a misperception that Muslims spontaneously arose in anger
over the cartoons when they really were symbols manipulated by those already
involved in violence.
> >
> > Donatich said there wasn't time for the experts to read the book, but they
were told of the context. He said reviewers and the publications committee did
not object, but were not asked about the security risk.
> >
> > Many Muslim nations want to restrict speech to prevent insults to Islam they
claim have proliferated since the terrorist attacks in the United States on
Sept. 11, 2001.
> >
> > Fareed Zakaria, editor of Newsweek International, a world affairs columnist
and CNN host who serves on Yale's governing board, said he told Yale that he
believed publishing the images would have provoked violence.
> >
> > "As a journalist and public commentator, I believe deeply in the First
Amendment and academic freedom," Zakaria said. "But in this instance Yale Press
was confronted with a clear threat of violence and loss of life."
> >
> > (This version CORRECTS SUBS graf 17 to correct that author learned of
decision in July, sted last week. Moving on general news and entertainment
services.)
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
> > http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > **********************************************************
> > FIRE: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5883 (formerly danica-fire@...)
> > Try our tasty digest version - now with extra thiamin!
> > **********************************************************
> > To unsubscribe from this list please send a blank message to:
fire-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > To contact the list owner please write to: fire-owner@...! Groups Links
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > Bing brings you health info from trusted sources.
> >
http://www.bing.com/search?q=pet+allergy&form=MHEINA&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MHEIN\
A_Health_Health_PetAllergy_1x1
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > **********************************************************
> > FIRE: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5883 (formerly danica-fire@...)
> > Try our tasty digest version - now with extra thiamin!
> > **********************************************************
> > To unsubscribe from this list please send a blank message to:
fire-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > To contact the list owner please write to: fire-owner@...! Groups Links
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Hotmail?has ever-growing storage! Don๎–น worry about storage limits.
> >
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_St\
orage_062009
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > **********************************************************
> > FIRE: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5883 (formerly danica-fire@...)
> > Try our tasty digest version - now with extra thiamin!
> > **********************************************************
> > To unsubscribe from this list please send a blank message to:
fire-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > To contact the list owner please write to: fire-owner@...! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC thatโ€™s right for you.
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

http://www.wpix.com/news/wpix-animal-sacrifice-arrests,0,7600150.story

Mom Arrested, Forced Child To Watch Animal Sacrifices
By PIERRE BONNY

12:55 PM EDT, July 8, 2009

PATERSON, N.J. (WPIX) - In what police are calling a dark and religious ritual,
three people were arrested and charged with endangering the welfare of a child
on Tuesday, allegedly cutting the girl and making her watch animal sacrifices.

The three suspects - which included the girl's mother and two other individuals
- were taken into custody following the execution of a search warrant at a home
in Paterson, New Jersey.

Police entered the residence on 230 Pacific St. and found many religious
articles. Authorities say they recovered such items as dolls, a shrine,
religious statues, artifacts, bones, machetes and sticks with numbers and names
on them. Police also said there was residue of blood and animal hair on some of
the items.

The alleged victim's mother Yenitza Colichon, 31, of Jamesburg is charged with
second-degree endangering the welfare of a child and fourth-degree cruelty and
neglect of a child. Her bail is set at $20,000.

The second suspect, Julio Cano, 30, of Paterson is charged with third-degree
endangering the welfare of a child. His bail was set at $20,000.

The third suspect, Zahira Cano, of Paterson is charged with third-degree
endangering the welfare of a child and released on recognizance.

Officials did not state what religious ritual was being followed nor the
connections the Canos had to each other or to the victim, saying only that they
were alleged participants in the ritual. The arrest complaints for both Julio
and Zahira Cano list 230 Pacific St. - the same location where the search
warrants were executed.

The search warrants were obtained following an investigation by the Passaic
County Prosecutor's Office Special Victims Unit, the Division of Youth and
Family Services, Middlesex County Prosecutor's Office Child Abuse Unit, Paterson
Police Department and Jamesburg Police Department.

Copyright ฉ 2009, WPIX-TV
========================================================
Eric Wolfsbane
Lokisgodhi

Unfortunately, the incident cited in the link below is certainly not an isolated
incident, as the U.K. has been intimidated for years by this form of
Islamo-fascist thuggery. I am just very happy that I got to visit England before
it became a hotbed for mindless, politico-religious fanaticism. It is why
American should not emulate  U.K. Political Policies. These victimized
business-owners can very easily be me or you, if, and when, this type of mob
behaviour becomes more tolerated in the U.S. At the rate we are going, this
seems highly probable.

 
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/09/uk-christian-couple-charged-with-criminal-offe\
nse-after-offending-

> To: fire@yahoogroups.com
> From: LadyMirenna@...
> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:29:02 -0400
> Subject: RE: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
>
>
>
> Yep, Jay, good references; these two religions can share the common thread of
total mindlessness; but, just as I have met people who profess to be Muslim yet
seem to be rationale people who view Allah as a god of love, I know Christians
who also took the best from Jesus' message and try to live by just principles.
Some people are naturally of a higher mind and spirit, regardless of the source
of their understanding. Blessed Be.
>
>
> To: fire@yahoogroups.com
> From: jaymthegenius@...
> Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 07:13:14 -0700
> Subject: Re: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm dealing with a Muslim extremist in another Yahoo! group (I can make a
seperate post for it). However Saint Augustine has said it's no longer necessary
to think and Islam does share some routes with Christianity:
>
> Here are some quotes just from Saint Augustine:
>
> "There is another form of temptation, even more fraught with danger. This is
the disease of curiosity...
>
> It
> is this which drives us to try to discover the secrets of nature, those
> secrets beyond our understanding, which can avail us nothing and which
> men should not wish to learn..."
> - St. Augustine
>
> "What we
> now call the Christian religion existed amongst the ancients, and was
> from the beginning of the human race, until Christ Himself came in the
> flesh; from which time the already existing true religion began to be
> styled Christian".
>
> ?St. Augustine
>
> "The Emperor has a duty to suppress schism and heresy" -St.Augustine
>
> Since God knows everything, everything is predetermined by him forever."
>
> "Freedom is freedom to err." ?St Augustine
>
> Scripture gives no false information.?
>
> "Since God has spoken to us it is no longer necessary for us to think." ?St
Augustine
>
> "...so
> poor is all the useful knowledge which is gathered from the books of
> the heathen when compared with the knowledge of Holy Scripture,
> For
> whatever man may have learnt from other sources, if it is hurtful, it
> is there condemned; if it is useful, it is therein contained...
> he
> will find there in much greater abundance things that are to be found
> nowhere else, but can be learnt only in the wonderful sublimity and
> wonderful simplicity of the Scriptures."
>
> ?St. Augustine (354-430), De Doctrina Christiana, 2,42 "Sacred Scripture
Compared with Profane Authors"
>
> ________________________________
> From: concetta renna <LadyMirenna@...>
> To: fire@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:49:50 PM
> Subject: RE: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
>
> Hi, Jay --- I think because these are not thinking people. They are
brainwashed at birth to honor their non-secular political leaders and are
forbidden to have any independent views on anything. I also really don't see the
correlation that some pagans try to make b/w the oppression of pagans and the
"oppression" of muslims in the western hemesphere.
>
> The freedom of religion that the West tries to impart was not meant to be a
free-for-all for anyone who wants to get their mindless, sadistic jollies off
under the guise of a "religious" philosophy. As far as I can see, in the Islamic
religions, women and children are used as literal whipping boys for adult males
to vent their pent-up political and sexual frustrations on.
>
> My question lately has been "What is a moderate muslim? Is this a man who
interprets the Koran to mean that he can behead a wife only once in his lifetime
as opposed to as many times to his multiple wives as he and his imam deem
neccessary?
>
> To: fire@yahoogroups.com
> From: jaymthegenius@...
> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:28:43 -0700
> Subject: Re: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
>
> Why don't muslims react like this with regard to a muslim raping someone in
the country they are illegally squatting on or denounce stoning of witches and
gay's?
>
> ________________________________
> From: concetta renna <LadyMirenna@...>
> To: fire@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 3:56:28 PM
> Subject: RE: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
>
> "Republication of the cartoons has repeatedly resulted in violence around the
world, leading to more than 200 deaths and hundreds of injuries, the statement
said."
>
> Islam is subjected to the same scrutiny and satire as any other religion in
the world. Why does this Mohammaden philosophy regard itself as being above
average treatment?
> I guess if Islam is trying to promote itself as a "religion of peace' by
killing and maiming people who might question its motives, it is kind of
reinforcing its own sterotype. Not too bright, I might add.
>
> I've seen many of these cartoons that are in question and personally, I think
that they are hilarious. I also think that it says a lot about the moral fiber
of civilized people who would rather retaliate against a violent enemy by using
a cartoon as opposed to a sword.
>
> There are girls and women in our Western Hemisphere who have been brutally
hurt, murdered, or live with the daily threat of such, while under the control
of the misogynistic philosophy of Islam. They do not, unfortunately, even have
the luxury of finding any humor in any of this.
>
> To: fire@yahoogroups.com
> From: openinquiry2001@...
> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:22:22 +0000
> Subject: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
>
> From the Associated Press:
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090908/ap_on_re_us/us_prophet_drawings_yale
>
> Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
> By JOHN CHRISTOFFERSEN, Associated Press Writer John Christoffersen,
Associated Press Writer
> Tue Sep 8, 10:41 am ET
>
> NEW HAVEN, Conn. ?Yale University has removed cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad
from an upcoming book about how they caused outrage across the Muslim world,
drawing criticism from prominent alumni and a national group of university
professors.
>
> Yale cited fears of violence.
>
> Yale University Press, which the university owns, removed the 12 caricatures
from the book "The Cartoons That Shook the World" by Brandeis University
professor Jytte Klausen. The book is scheduled to be released next week.
>
> A Danish newspaper originally published the cartoons ?including one depicting
Muhammad wearing a bomb-shaped turban ?in 2005. Other Western publications
reprinted them.
>
> The following year, the cartoons triggered massive protests from Morocco to
Indonesia. Rioters torched Danish and other Western diplomatic missions. Some
Muslim countries boycotted Danish products.
>
> Islamic law generally opposes any depiction of the prophet, even favorable,
for fear it could lead to idolatry.
>
> "I think it's horrifying that the campus of Nathan Hale has become the first
place where America surrenders to this kind of fear because of what extremists
might possibly do," said Michael Steinberg, an attorney and Yale graduate.
>
> Steinberg was among 25 alumni who signed a protest letter sent Friday to Yale
Alumni Magazine that urged the university to restore the drawings to the book.
Other signers included John Bolton, a former U.S. ambassador to the United
Nations under President George W. Bush, former Bush administration speechwriter
David Frum and Seth Corey, a liberal doctor.
>
> "I think it's intellectual cowardice," Bolton said Thursday. "I think it's
very self defeating on Yale's part. To me it's just inexplicable."
>
> Cary Nelson, president of the American Association of University Professors,
wrote in a recent letter that Yale's decision effectively means: "We do not
negotiate with terrorists. We just accede to their anticipated demands."
>
> In a statement explaining the decision, Yale University Press said it decided
to exclude a Danish newspaper page of the cartoons and other depictions of
Muhammad after asking the university for help on the issue. It said the
university consulted counterterrorism officials, diplomats and the top Muslim
official at the United Nations.
>
> "The decision rested solely on the experts' assessment that there existed a
substantial likelihood of violence that might take the lives of innocent
victims," the statement said.
>
> Republication of the cartoons has repeatedly resulted in violence around the
world, leading to more than 200 deaths and hundreds of injuries, the statement
said. It also noted that major newspapers in the United states and Britain have
declined to print the cartoons.
>
> "Yale and Yale University Press are deeply committed to freedom of speech and
expression, so the issues raised here were difficult," the statement said. "The
press would never have reached the decision it did on the grounds that some
might be offended by portrayals of the Prophet Muhammad."
>
> John Donatich, director of Yale University Press, said the critics are
"grandstanding." He said it was not a case of censorship because the university
did not suppress original content that was not available in other places.
>
> "I would never have agreed to censor original content," Donatich said.
>
> Klausen was surprised by the decision when she learned of it in July. She said
scholarly reviewers and Yale's publication committee comprised of faculty
recommended the cartoons be included.
>
> "I'm extremely upset about that," Klausen said.
>
> The experts Yale consulted did not read the manuscript, Klausen said. She said
she consulted Muslim leaders and did not believe including the cartoons in a
scholarly debate would spark violence.
>
> Klausen said she reluctantly agreed to have the book published without the
images because she did not believe any other university press would publish
them, and she hopes Yale will include them in later editions. She argues in the
book that there is a misperception that Muslims spontaneously arose in anger
over the cartoons when they really were symbols manipulated by those already
involved in violence.
>
> Donatich said there wasn't time for the experts to read the book, but they
were told of the context. He said reviewers and the publications committee did
not object, but were not asked about the security risk.
>
> Many Muslim nations want to restrict speech to prevent insults to Islam they
claim have proliferated since the terrorist attacks in the United States on
Sept. 11, 2001.
>
> Fareed Zakaria, editor of Newsweek International, a world affairs columnist
and CNN host who serves on Yale's governing board, said he told Yale that he
believed publishing the images would have provoked violence.
>
> "As a journalist and public commentator, I believe deeply in the First
Amendment and academic freedom," Zakaria said. "But in this instance Yale Press
was confronted with a clear threat of violence and loss of life."
>
> (This version CORRECTS SUBS graf 17 to correct that author learned of decision
in July, sted last week. Moving on general news and entertainment services.)
>
> __________________________________________________________
> With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
> http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> **********************************************************
> FIRE: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5883 (formerly
danica-fire@...)
> Try our tasty digest version - now with extra thiamin!
> **********************************************************
> To unsubscribe from this list please send a blank message to:
fire-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> To contact the list owner please write to: fire-owner@...!
Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Bing brings you health info from trusted sources.
>
http://www.bing.com/search?q=pet+allergy&form=MHEINA&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MHEIN\
A_Health_Health_PetAllergy_1x1
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> **********************************************************
> FIRE: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5883 (formerly
danica-fire@...)
> Try our tasty digest version - now with extra thiamin!
> **********************************************************
> To unsubscribe from this list please send a blank message to:
fire-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> To contact the list owner please write to: fire-owner@...!
Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Hotmail?has ever-growing storage! Don๎–น worry about storage limits.
>
http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_St\
orage_062009
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> **********************************************************
> FIRE: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5883 (formerly
danica-fire@...)
> Try our tasty digest version - now with extra thiamin!
> **********************************************************
> To unsubscribe from this list please send a blank message to:
fire-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> To contact the list owner please write to: fire-owner@...!
Groups Links
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC thatโ€™s right for you.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yep, Jay, good references; these two religions can share the common thread of
total mindlessness; but, just as I have met people who profess to be Muslim yet
seem to be rationale people who view Allah as a god of love, I know Christians
who also took the best from Jesus' message and try to live by just principles.
Some people are naturally of a higher mind and spirit, regardless of the source
of their understanding. Blessed Be.


To: fire@yahoogroups.com
From: jaymthegenius@...
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2009 07:13:14 -0700
Subject: Re: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book





I'm dealing with a Muslim extremist in another Yahoo! group (I can make a
seperate post for it). However Saint Augustine has said it's no longer necessary
to think and Islam does share some routes with Christianity:

Here are some quotes just from Saint Augustine:

"There is another form of temptation, even more fraught with danger. This is the
disease of curiosity...

It
is this which drives us to try to discover the secrets of nature, those
secrets beyond our understanding, which can avail us nothing and which
men should not wish to learn..."
- St. Augustine

"What we
now call the Christian religion existed amongst the ancients, and was
from the beginning of the human race, until Christ Himself came in the
flesh; from which time the already existing true religion began to be
styled Christian".

– St. Augustine

"The Emperor has a duty to suppress schism and heresy" -St.Augustine

Since God knows everything, everything is predetermined by him forever."

"Freedom is freedom to err." – St Augustine

Scripture gives no false information.”

"Since God has spoken to us it is no longer necessary for us to think." – St
Augustine

"...so
poor is all the useful knowledge which is gathered from the books of
the heathen when compared with the knowledge of Holy Scripture,
For
whatever man may have learnt from other sources, if it is hurtful, it
is there condemned; if it is useful, it is therein contained...
he
will find there in much greater abundance things that are to be found
nowhere else, but can be learnt only in the wonderful sublimity and
wonderful simplicity of the Scriptures."

– St. Augustine (354-430), De Doctrina Christiana, 2,42 "Sacred Scripture
Compared with Profane Authors"

________________________________
From: concetta renna <LadyMirenna@...>
To: fire@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:49:50 PM
Subject: RE: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book

Hi, Jay --- I think because these are not thinking people. They are brainwashed
at birth to honor their non-secular political leaders and are forbidden to have
any independent views on anything. I also really don't see the correlation that
some pagans try to make b/w the oppression of pagans and the "oppression" of
muslims in the western hemesphere.

The freedom of religion that the West tries to impart was not meant to be a
free-for-all for anyone who wants to get their mindless, sadistic jollies off
under the guise of a "religious" philosophy. As far as I can see, in the Islamic
religions, women and children are used as literal whipping boys for adult males
to vent their pent-up political and sexual frustrations on.

My question lately has been "What is a moderate muslim? Is this a man who
interprets the Koran to mean that he can behead a wife only once in his lifetime
as opposed to as many times to his multiple wives as he and his imam deem
neccessary?

To: fire@yahoogroups.com
From: jaymthegenius@...
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:28:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book

Why don't muslims react like this with regard to a muslim raping someone in the
country they are illegally squatting on or denounce stoning of witches and
gay's?

________________________________
From: concetta renna <LadyMirenna@...>
To: fire@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 3:56:28 PM
Subject: RE: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book

"Republication of the cartoons has repeatedly resulted in violence around the
world, leading to more than 200 deaths and hundreds of injuries, the statement
said."

Islam is subjected to the same scrutiny and satire as any other religion in the
world. Why does this Mohammaden philosophy regard itself as being above average
treatment?
I guess if Islam is trying to promote itself as a "religion of peace' by killing
and maiming people who might question its motives, it is kind of reinforcing its
own sterotype. Not too bright, I might add.

I've seen many of these cartoons that are in question and personally, I think
that they are hilarious. I also think that it says a lot about the moral fiber
of civilized people who would rather retaliate against a violent enemy by using
a cartoon as opposed to a sword.

There are girls and women in our Western Hemisphere who have been brutally hurt,
murdered, or live with the daily threat of such, while under the control of the
misogynistic philosophy of Islam. They do not, unfortunately, even have the
luxury of finding any humor in any of this.

To: fire@yahoogroups.com
From: openinquiry2001@...
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:22:22 +0000
Subject: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book

From the Associated Press:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090908/ap_on_re_us/us_prophet_drawings_yale

Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
By JOHN CHRISTOFFERSEN, Associated Press Writer John Christoffersen, Associated
Press Writer
Tue Sep 8, 10:41 am ET

NEW HAVEN, Conn. – Yale University has removed cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad
from an upcoming book about how they caused outrage across the Muslim world,
drawing criticism from prominent alumni and a national group of university
professors.

Yale cited fears of violence.

Yale University Press, which the university owns, removed the 12 caricatures
from the book "The Cartoons That Shook the World" by Brandeis University
professor Jytte Klausen. The book is scheduled to be released next week.

A Danish newspaper originally published the cartoons — including one depicting
Muhammad wearing a bomb-shaped turban — in 2005. Other Western publications
reprinted them.

The following year, the cartoons triggered massive protests from Morocco to
Indonesia. Rioters torched Danish and other Western diplomatic missions. Some
Muslim countries boycotted Danish products.

Islamic law generally opposes any depiction of the prophet, even favorable, for
fear it could lead to idolatry.

"I think it's horrifying that the campus of Nathan Hale has become the first
place where America surrenders to this kind of fear because of what extremists
might possibly do," said Michael Steinberg, an attorney and Yale graduate.

Steinberg was among 25 alumni who signed a protest letter sent Friday to Yale
Alumni Magazine that urged the university to restore the drawings to the book.
Other signers included John Bolton, a former U.S. ambassador to the United
Nations under President George W. Bush, former Bush administration speechwriter
David Frum and Seth Corey, a liberal doctor.

"I think it's intellectual cowardice," Bolton said Thursday. "I think it's very
self defeating on Yale's part. To me it's just inexplicable."

Cary Nelson, president of the American Association of University Professors,
wrote in a recent letter that Yale's decision effectively means: "We do not
negotiate with terrorists. We just accede to their anticipated demands."

In a statement explaining the decision, Yale University Press said it decided to
exclude a Danish newspaper page of the cartoons and other depictions of Muhammad
after asking the university for help on the issue. It said the university
consulted counterterrorism officials, diplomats and the top Muslim official at
the United Nations.

"The decision rested solely on the experts' assessment that there existed a
substantial likelihood of violence that might take the lives of innocent
victims," the statement said.

Republication of the cartoons has repeatedly resulted in violence around the
world, leading to more than 200 deaths and hundreds of injuries, the statement
said. It also noted that major newspapers in the United states and Britain have
declined to print the cartoons.

"Yale and Yale University Press are deeply committed to freedom of speech and
expression, so the issues raised here were difficult," the statement said. "The
press would never have reached the decision it did on the grounds that some
might be offended by portrayals of the Prophet Muhammad."

John Donatich, director of Yale University Press, said the critics are
"grandstanding." He said it was not a case of censorship because the university
did not suppress original content that was not available in other places.

"I would never have agreed to censor original content," Donatich said.

Klausen was surprised by the decision when she learned of it in July. She said
scholarly reviewers and Yale's publication committee comprised of faculty
recommended the cartoons be included.

"I'm extremely upset about that," Klausen said.

The experts Yale consulted did not read the manuscript, Klausen said. She said
she consulted Muslim leaders and did not believe including the cartoons in a
scholarly debate would spark violence.

Klausen said she reluctantly agreed to have the book published without the
images because she did not believe any other university press would publish
them, and she hopes Yale will include them in later editions. She argues in the
book that there is a misperception that Muslims spontaneously arose in anger
over the cartoons when they really were symbols manipulated by those already
involved in violence.

Donatich said there wasn't time for the experts to read the book, but they were
told of the context. He said reviewers and the publications committee did not
object, but were not asked about the security risk.

Many Muslim nations want to restrict speech to prevent insults to Islam they
claim have proliferated since the terrorist attacks in the United States on
Sept. 11, 2001.

Fareed Zakaria, editor of Newsweek International, a world affairs columnist and
CNN host who serves on Yale's governing board, said he told Yale that he
believed publishing the images would have provoked violence.

"As a journalist and public commentator, I believe deeply in the First Amendment
and academic freedom," Zakaria said. "But in this instance Yale Press was
confronted with a clear threat of violence and loss of life."

(This version CORRECTS SUBS graf 17 to correct that author learned of decision
in July, sted last week. Moving on general news and entertainment services.)

__________________________________________________________
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Hello,

In regards to previous posts on this subject, I think it just goes to show that
the freedom of expression--including freedom of religion--is probably the
greatest threat to religious fanaticism.  (In fact, that's what frustrates me
when so-called moderate and/or liberal people insist on suppressing freedom of
expression to satisfy arch-conservative religious interests under the pretense
of "protecting" religion.)  Patriarchal, arch-conservative religious leaders are
just as terrified of other religions as they are of secular society.  Ergo, they
do everything they possibly can to ensure the strictest, most mindless
enforcement of their way of thinking.  Heck, why do you think the Amish are so
desperate to make sure that their kids don't get an education past the eighth
grade, a decision that was (unfortunately) supported in Wisconsin v. Yoder in
1972?  Because Amish elders knew that if their kids got a full high school
education, they'd leave the Amish faith in droves.

In the case is Islam, though, there might be a solution in heavy metal music. 
Seriously.  Check this out: http://heavymetalislam.net/.

-Tim



--- In fire@yahoogroups.com, concetta renna <LadyMirenna@...> wrote:
>
>         Hi, Jay --- I think because these are not thinking people. They are
brainwashed at birth to honor their non-secular political leaders and are
forbidden to have any independent views on anything. I also really don't see the
correlation that some pagans try to make b/w the oppression of pagans and the
"oppression" of muslims in the western hemesphere.
>
>        The freedom of religion that the West tries to impart was not meant to
be a free-for-all for anyone who wants to get their mindless, sadistic jollies
off under the guise of a "religious" philosophy. As far as I can see, in the
Islamic religions, women and children are used as literal whipping boys for
adult males to vent their pent-up political and sexual frustrations on.
>
>         My question lately has been "What is a moderate muslim? Is this a man
who interprets the Koran to mean that he can behead a wife only once in his
lifetime as opposed to as many times to his multiple wives as he and his imam
deem neccessary?
>
>
>
> To: fire@yahoogroups.com
> From: jaymthegenius@...
> Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:28:43 -0700
> Subject: Re: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
>
>
>
>
>
> Why don't muslims react like this with regard to a muslim raping someone in
the country they are illegally squatting on or denounce stoning of witches and
gay's?
>
> ________________________________
> From: concetta renna <LadyMirenna@...>
> To: fire@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 3:56:28 PM
> Subject: RE: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
>
> "Republication of the cartoons has repeatedly resulted in violence around the
world, leading to more than 200 deaths and hundreds of injuries, the statement
said."
>
> Islam is subjected to the same scrutiny and satire as any other religion in
the world. Why does this Mohammaden philosophy regard itself as being above
average treatment?
> I guess if Islam is trying to promote itself as a "religion of peace' by
killing and maiming people who might question its motives, it is kind of
reinforcing its own sterotype. Not too bright, I might add.
>
> I've seen many of these cartoons that are in question and personally, I think
that they are hilarious. I also think that it says a lot about the moral fiber
of civilized people who would rather retaliate against a violent enemy by using
a cartoon as opposed to a sword.
>
> There are girls and women in our Western Hemisphere who have been brutally
hurt, murdered, or live with the daily threat of such, while under the control
of the misogynistic philosophy of Islam. They do not, unfortunately, even have
the luxury of finding any humor in any of this.
>
> To: fire@yahoogroups.com
> From: openinquiry2001@...
> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:22:22 +0000
> Subject: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
>
> From the Associated Press:
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090908/ap_on_re_us/us_prophet_drawings_yale
>
> Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
> By JOHN CHRISTOFFERSEN, Associated Press Writer John Christoffersen,
Associated Press Writer
> Tue Sep 8, 10:41 am ET
>
> NEW HAVEN, Conn. – Yale University has removed cartoons of the Prophet
Muhammad from an upcoming book about how they caused outrage across the Muslim
world, drawing criticism from prominent alumni and a national group of
university professors.
>
> Yale cited fears of violence.
>
> Yale University Press, which the university owns, removed the 12 caricatures
from the book "The Cartoons That Shook the World" by Brandeis University
professor Jytte Klausen. The book is scheduled to be released next week.
>
> A Danish newspaper originally published the cartoons — including one depicting
Muhammad wearing a bomb-shaped turban — in 2005. Other Western publications
reprinted them.
>
> The following year, the cartoons triggered massive protests from Morocco to
Indonesia. Rioters torched Danish and other Western diplomatic missions. Some
Muslim countries boycotted Danish products.
>
> Islamic law generally opposes any depiction of the prophet, even favorable,
for fear it could lead to idolatry.
>
> "I think it's horrifying that the campus of Nathan Hale has become the first
place where America surrenders to this kind of fear because of what extremists
might possibly do," said Michael Steinberg, an attorney and Yale graduate.
>
> Steinberg was among 25 alumni who signed a protest letter sent Friday to Yale
Alumni Magazine that urged the university to restore the drawings to the book.
Other signers included John Bolton, a former U.S. ambassador to the United
Nations under President George W. Bush, former Bush administration speechwriter
David Frum and Seth Corey, a liberal doctor.
>
> "I think it's intellectual cowardice," Bolton said Thursday. "I think it's
very self defeating on Yale's part. To me it's just inexplicable."
>
> Cary Nelson, president of the American Association of University Professors,
wrote in a recent letter that Yale's decision effectively means: "We do not
negotiate with terrorists. We just accede to their anticipated demands."
>
> In a statement explaining the decision, Yale University Press said it decided
to exclude a Danish newspaper page of the cartoons and other depictions of
Muhammad after asking the university for help on the issue. It said the
university consulted counterterrorism officials, diplomats and the top Muslim
official at the United Nations.
>
> "The decision rested solely on the experts' assessment that there existed a
substantial likelihood of violence that might take the lives of innocent
victims," the statement said.
>
> Republication of the cartoons has repeatedly resulted in violence around the
world, leading to more than 200 deaths and hundreds of injuries, the statement
said. It also noted that major newspapers in the United states and Britain have
declined to print the cartoons.
>
> "Yale and Yale University Press are deeply committed to freedom of speech and
expression, so the issues raised here were difficult," the statement said. "The
press would never have reached the decision it did on the grounds that some
might be offended by portrayals of the Prophet Muhammad."
>
> John Donatich, director of Yale University Press, said the critics are
"grandstanding." He said it was not a case of censorship because the university
did not suppress original content that was not available in other places.
>
> "I would never have agreed to censor original content," Donatich said.
>
> Klausen was surprised by the decision when she learned of it in July. She said
scholarly reviewers and Yale's publication committee comprised of faculty
recommended the cartoons be included.
>
> "I'm extremely upset about that," Klausen said.
>
> The experts Yale consulted did not read the manuscript, Klausen said. She said
she consulted Muslim leaders and did not believe including the cartoons in a
scholarly debate would spark violence.
>
> Klausen said she reluctantly agreed to have the book published without the
images because she did not believe any other university press would publish
them, and she hopes Yale will include them in later editions. She argues in the
book that there is a misperception that Muslims spontaneously arose in anger
over the cartoons when they really were symbols manipulated by those already
involved in violence.
>
> Donatich said there wasn't time for the experts to read the book, but they
were told of the context. He said reviewers and the publications committee did
not object, but were not asked about the security risk.
>
> Many Muslim nations want to restrict speech to prevent insults to Islam they
claim have proliferated since the terrorist attacks in the United States on
Sept. 11, 2001.
>
> Fareed Zakaria, editor of Newsweek International, a world affairs columnist
and CNN host who serves on Yale's governing board, said he told Yale that he
believed publishing the images would have provoked violence.
>
> "As a journalist and public commentator, I believe deeply in the First
Amendment and academic freedom," Zakaria said. "But in this instance Yale Press
was confronted with a clear threat of violence and loss of life."
>
> (This version CORRECTS SUBS graf 17 to correct that author learned of decision
in July, sted last week. Moving on general news and entertainment services.)
>
> __________________________________________________________
> With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
> http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> **********************************************************
> FIRE: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5883 (formerly danica-fire@...)
> Try our tasty digest version - now with extra thiamin!
> **********************************************************
> To unsubscribe from this list please send a blank message to:
fire-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> To contact the list owner please write to: fire-owner@...! Groups Links
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Bing brings you health info from trusted sources.
>
http://www.bing.com/search?q=pet+allergy&form=MHEINA&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MHEIN\
A_Health_Health_PetAllergy_1x1
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I'm dealing with a Muslim extremist in another Yahoo! group (I can make a
seperate post for it).  However Saint Augustine has said it's no longer
necessary to think and Islam does share some routes with Christianity:


Here are some quotes just from Saint Augustine:

"There is another form of temptation, even more fraught with danger.  This is
the disease of curiosity...

It
is this which drives us to try to discover the secrets of nature, those
secrets beyond our understanding, which can avail us nothing and which
men should not wish to learn..."
- St. Augustine

"What we
now call the Christian religion existed amongst the ancients, and was
from the beginning of the human race, until Christ Himself came in the
flesh; from which time the already existing true religion began to be
styled Christian".

โ€“ St. Augustine

"The Emperor has a duty to suppress schism and heresy" -St.Augustine

Since God knows everything, everything is predetermined by him forever."

"Freedom is freedom to err." โ€“ St Augustine

Scripture gives no false information.โ€

"Since God has spoken to us it is no longer necessary for us to think." โ€“ St
Augustine

"...so
poor is all the useful knowledge which is gathered from the books of
the heathen when compared with the knowledge of Holy Scripture,
For
whatever man may have learnt from other sources, if it is hurtful, it
is there condemned; if it is useful, it is therein contained...
he
will find there in much greater abundance things that are to be found
nowhere else, but can be learnt only in the wonderful sublimity and
wonderful simplicity of the Scriptures."

โ€“ St. Augustine (354-430), De Doctrina Christiana, 2,42   "Sacred Scripture
Compared with Profane Authors"




________________________________
From: concetta renna <LadyMirenna@...>
To: fire@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 2:49:50 PM
Subject: RE: [fire]  Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book

         Hi, Jay --- I think because these are not thinking people. They are
brainwashed at birth to honor their non-secular political leaders and are
forbidden to have any independent views on anything. I also really don't see the
correlation that some pagans try to make b/w the oppression of pagans and the
"oppression" of muslims in the western hemesphere.

        The freedom of religion that the West tries to impart was not meant to be
a free-for-all for anyone who wants to get their mindless, sadistic jollies off
under the guise of a "religious" philosophy. As far as I can see, in the Islamic
religions, women and children are used as literal whipping boys for adult males
to vent their pent-up political and sexual frustrations on.

         My question lately has been "What is a moderate muslim? Is this a man
who interprets the Koran to mean that he can behead a wife only once in his
lifetime as opposed to as many times to his multiple wives as he and his imam
deem neccessary?



To: fire@yahoogroups.com
From: jaymthegenius@...
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:28:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book





Why don't muslims react like this with regard to a muslim raping someone in the
country they are illegally squatting on or denounce stoning of witches and
gay's?

________________________________
From: concetta renna <LadyMirenna@...>
To: fire@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 3:56:28 PM
Subject: RE: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book

"Republication of the cartoons has repeatedly resulted in violence around the
world, leading to more than 200 deaths and hundreds of injuries, the statement
said."

Islam is subjected to the same scrutiny and satire as any other religion in the
world. Why does this Mohammaden philosophy regard itself as being above average
treatment?
I guess if Islam is trying to promote itself as a "religion of peace' by killing
and maiming people who might question its motives, it is kind of reinforcing its
own sterotype. Not too bright, I might add.

I've seen many of these cartoons that are in question and personally, I think
that they are hilarious. I also think that it says a lot about the moral fiber
of civilized people who would rather retaliate against a violent enemy by using
a cartoon as opposed to a sword.

There are girls and women in our Western Hemisphere who have been brutally hurt,
murdered, or live with the daily threat of such, while under the control of the
misogynistic philosophy of Islam. They do not, unfortunately, even have the
luxury of finding any humor in any of this.

To: fire@yahoogroups.com
From: openinquiry2001@...
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:22:22 +0000
Subject: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book

From the Associated Press:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090908/ap_on_re_us/us_prophet_drawings_yale

Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
By JOHN CHRISTOFFERSEN, Associated Press Writer John Christoffersen, Associated
Press Writer
Tue Sep 8, 10:41 am ET

NEW HAVEN, Conn. โ€“ Yale University has removed cartoons of the Prophet
Muhammad from an upcoming book about how they caused outrage across the Muslim
world, drawing criticism from prominent alumni and a national group of
university professors.

Yale cited fears of violence.

Yale University Press, which the university owns, removed the 12 caricatures
from the book "The Cartoons That Shook the World" by Brandeis University
professor Jytte Klausen. The book is scheduled to be released next week.

A Danish newspaper originally published the cartoons โ€” including one depicting
Muhammad wearing a bomb-shaped turban โ€” in 2005. Other Western publications
reprinted them.

The following year, the cartoons triggered massive protests from Morocco to
Indonesia. Rioters torched Danish and other Western diplomatic missions. Some
Muslim countries boycotted Danish products.

Islamic law generally opposes any depiction of the prophet, even favorable, for
fear it could lead to idolatry.

"I think it's horrifying that the campus of Nathan Hale has become the first
place where America surrenders to this kind of fear because of what extremists
might possibly do," said Michael Steinberg, an attorney and Yale graduate.

Steinberg was among 25 alumni who signed a protest letter sent Friday to Yale
Alumni Magazine that urged the university to restore the drawings to the book.
Other signers included John Bolton, a former U.S. ambassador to the United
Nations under President George W. Bush, former Bush administration speechwriter
David Frum and Seth Corey, a liberal doctor.

"I think it's intellectual cowardice," Bolton said Thursday. "I think it's very
self defeating on Yale's part. To me it's just inexplicable."

Cary Nelson, president of the American Association of University Professors,
wrote in a recent letter that Yale's decision effectively means: "We do not
negotiate with terrorists. We just accede to their anticipated demands."

In a statement explaining the decision, Yale University Press said it decided to
exclude a Danish newspaper page of the cartoons and other depictions of Muhammad
after asking the university for help on the issue. It said the university
consulted counterterrorism officials, diplomats and the top Muslim official at
the United Nations.

"The decision rested solely on the experts' assessment that there existed a
substantial likelihood of violence that might take the lives of innocent
victims," the statement said.

Republication of the cartoons has repeatedly resulted in violence around the
world, leading to more than 200 deaths and hundreds of injuries, the statement
said. It also noted that major newspapers in the United states and Britain have
declined to print the cartoons.

"Yale and Yale University Press are deeply committed to freedom of speech and
expression, so the issues raised here were difficult," the statement said. "The
press would never have reached the decision it did on the grounds that some
might be offended by portrayals of the Prophet Muhammad."

John Donatich, director of Yale University Press, said the critics are
"grandstanding." He said it was not a case of censorship because the university
did not suppress original content that was not available in other places.

"I would never have agreed to censor original content," Donatich said.

Klausen was surprised by the decision when she learned of it in July. She said
scholarly reviewers and Yale's publication committee comprised of faculty
recommended the cartoons be included.

"I'm extremely upset about that," Klausen said.

The experts Yale consulted did not read the manuscript, Klausen said. She said
she consulted Muslim leaders and did not believe including the cartoons in a
scholarly debate would spark violence.

Klausen said she reluctantly agreed to have the book published without the
images because she did not believe any other university press would publish
them, and she hopes Yale will include them in later editions. She argues in the
book that there is a misperception that Muslims spontaneously arose in anger
over the cartoons when they really were symbols manipulated by those already
involved in violence.

Donatich said there wasn't time for the experts to read the book, but they were
told of the context. He said reviewers and the publications committee did not
object, but were not asked about the security risk.

Many Muslim nations want to restrict speech to prevent insults to Islam they
claim have proliferated since the terrorist attacks in the United States on
Sept. 11, 2001.

Fareed Zakaria, editor of Newsweek International, a world affairs columnist and
CNN host who serves on Yale's governing board, said he told Yale that he
believed publishing the images would have provoked violence.

"As a journalist and public commentator, I believe deeply in the First Amendment
and academic freedom," Zakaria said. "But in this instance Yale Press was
confronted with a clear threat of violence and loss of life."

(This version CORRECTS SUBS graf 17 to correct that author learned of decision
in July, sted last week. Moving on general news and entertainment services.)

__________________________________________________________
With Windows Live, you can organize, edit, and share your photos.
http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

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FIRE: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5883 (formerly danica-fire@...)
Try our tasty digest version - now with extra thiamin!
**********************************************************
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Jay --- I think because these are not thinking people. They are
brainwashed at birth to honor their non-secular political leaders and are
forbidden to have any independent views on anything. I also really don't see the
correlation that some pagans try to make b/w the oppression of pagans and the
"oppression" of muslims in the western hemesphere.

        The freedom of religion that the West tries to impart was not meant to be
a free-for-all for anyone who wants to get their mindless, sadistic jollies off
under the guise of a "religious" philosophy. As far as I can see, in the Islamic
religions, women and children are used as literal whipping boys for adult males
to vent their pent-up political and sexual frustrations on.

         My question lately has been "What is a moderate muslim? Is this a man
who interprets the Koran to mean that he can behead a wife only once in his
lifetime as opposed to as many times to his multiple wives as he and his imam
deem neccessary?



To: fire@yahoogroups.com
From: jaymthegenius@...
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 11:28:43 -0700
Subject: Re: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book





Why don't muslims react like this with regard to a muslim raping someone in the
country they are illegally squatting on or denounce stoning of witches and
gay's?

________________________________
From: concetta renna <LadyMirenna@...>
To: fire@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 3:56:28 PM
Subject: RE: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book

"Republication of the cartoons has repeatedly resulted in violence around the
world, leading to more than 200 deaths and hundreds of injuries, the statement
said."

Islam is subjected to the same scrutiny and satire as any other religion in the
world. Why does this Mohammaden philosophy regard itself as being above average
treatment?
I guess if Islam is trying to promote itself as a "religion of peace' by killing
and maiming people who might question its motives, it is kind of reinforcing its
own sterotype. Not too bright, I might add.

I've seen many of these cartoons that are in question and personally, I think
that they are hilarious. I also think that it says a lot about the moral fiber
of civilized people who would rather retaliate against a violent enemy by using
a cartoon as opposed to a sword.

There are girls and women in our Western Hemisphere who have been brutally hurt,
murdered, or live with the daily threat of such, while under the control of the
misogynistic philosophy of Islam. They do not, unfortunately, even have the
luxury of finding any humor in any of this.

To: fire@yahoogroups.com
From: openinquiry2001@...
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2009 19:22:22 +0000
Subject: [fire] Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book

From the Associated Press:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090908/ap_on_re_us/us_prophet_drawings_yale

Yale criticized for nixing Muslim cartoons in book
By JOHN CHRISTOFFERSEN, Associated Press Writer John Christoffersen, Associated
Press Writer
Tue Sep 8, 10:41 am ET

NEW HAVEN, Conn. – Yale University has removed cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad
from an upcoming book about how they caused outrage across the Muslim world,
drawing criticism from prominent alumni and a national group of university
professors.

Yale cited fears of violence.

Yale University Press, which the university owns, removed the 12 caricatures
from the book "The Cartoons That Shook the World" by Brandeis University
professor Jytte Klausen. The book is scheduled to be released next week.

A Danish newspaper originally published the cartoons — including one depicting
Muhammad wearing a bomb-shaped turban — in 2005. Other Western publications
reprinted them.

The following year, the cartoons triggered massive protests from Morocco to
Indonesia. Rioters torched Danish and other Western diplomatic missions. Some
Muslim countries boycotted Danish products.

Islamic law generally opposes any depiction of the prophet, even favorable, for
fear it could lead to idolatry.

"I think it's horrifying that the campus of Nathan Hale has become the first
place where America surrenders to this kind of fear because of what extremists
might possibly do," said Michael Steinberg, an attorney and Yale graduate.

Steinberg was among 25 alumni who signed a protest letter sent Friday to Yale
Alumni Magazine that urged the university to restore the drawings to the book.
Other signers included John Bolton, a former U.S. ambassador to the United
Nations under President George W. Bush, former Bush administration speechwriter
David Frum and Seth Corey, a liberal doctor.

"I think it's intellectual cowardice," Bolton said Thursday. "I think it's very
self defeating on Yale's part. To me it's just inexplicable."

Cary Nelson, president of the American Association of University Professors,
wrote in a recent letter that Yale's decision effectively means: "We do not
negotiate with terrorists. We just accede to their anticipated demands."

In a statement explaining the decision, Yale University Press said it decided to
exclude a Danish newspaper page of the cartoons and other depictions of Muhammad
after asking the university for help on the issue. It said the university
consulted counterterrorism officials, diplomats and the top Muslim official at
the United Nations.

"The decision rested solely on the experts' assessment that there existed a
substantial likelihood of violence that might take the lives of innocent
victims," the statement said.

Republication of the cartoons has repeatedly resulted in violence around the
world, leading to more than 200 deaths and hundreds of injuries, the statement
said. It also noted that major newspapers in the United states and Britain have
declined to print the cartoons.

"Yale and Yale University Press are deeply committed to freedom of speech and
expression, so the issues raised here were difficult," the statement said. "The
press would never have reached the decision it did on the grounds that some
might be offended by portrayals of the Prophet Muhammad."

John Donatich, director of Yale University Press, said the critics are
"grandstanding." He said it was not a case of censorship because the university
did not suppress original content that was not available in other places.

"I would never have agreed to censor original content," Donatich said.

Klausen was surprised by the decision when she learned of it in July. She said
scholarly reviewers and Yale's publication committee comprised of faculty
recommended the cartoons be included.

"I'm extremely upset about that," Klausen said.

The experts Yale consulted did not read the manuscript, Klausen said. She said
she consulted Muslim leaders and did not believe including the cartoons in a
scholarly debate would spark violence.

Klausen said she reluctantly agreed to have the book published without the
images because she did not believe any other university press would publish
them, and she hopes Yale will include them in later editions. She argues in the
book that there is a misperception that Muslims spontaneously arose in anger
over the cartoons when they really were symbols manipulated by those already
involved in violence.

Donatich said there wasn't time for the experts to read the book, but they were
told of the context. He said reviewers and the publications committee did not
object, but were not asked about the security risk.

Many Muslim nations want to restrict speech to prevent insults to Islam they
claim have proliferated since the terrorist attacks in the United States on
Sept. 11, 2001.

Fareed Zakaria, editor of Newsweek International, a world affairs columnist and
CNN host who serves on Yale's governing board, said he told Yale that he
believed publishing the images would have provoked violence.

"As a journalist and public commentator, I believe deeply in the First Amendment
and academic freedom," Zakaria said. "But in this instance Yale Press was
confronted with a clear threat of violence and loss of life."

(This version CORRECTS SUBS graf 17 to correct that author learned of decision
in July, sted last week. Moving on general news and entertainment services.)

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That might be nothing short of persecution.

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/scholars.html

http://www.jordanmaxwell.com/articles/religion/Christian%20Bloodshed.pdf

Are great reads with regard to the history of persecution by Christians (I'm
looking for a similar list for Muslims as they too have a long history of
persecuting others).




________________________________
From: Stephen A <Abbotts_Inn@...>
To: fire@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:08:09 PM
Subject: [fire]  Emergency Bulletin


Hi! Everyone . I am back. I have been gone a LONG time but I'm back. I
come with a warning. Ya Hell is out for blood. Any group that has had no
activity in 6 weeks will be dropped from ya Hell groups. These bastards
have already killed 10 of mine. I have made Wednesdays my day to work on
all the groups I'm a member of or co-own. I hate Ya Hell the way they
treat us. So keep this group active or risk losing it for good. I lost
my Abbott's Inn School of Magick. We had a 128 members I lost my best
friend to a heart attack. And so I didn't post for 6 weeks Ya Hell
deleted my group. They made no effort to recover it. Then they took out
9 more groups. There just bastards. So my fellow Pagans you have been
warned. I plan to post a nicer post next time. I don't like being pissed
off like this but I don't want this group to be deleted like my 10
groups were. I will post the links to my surviving groups in the link
section of this group. I will now like to tell you some good news. My
Abbott's Inn International is now on 28 Pagan related networks world
wide. If you are interested in Abbott's Inn International here is my
active geocites site: http://www.geocitie s.com/Abbotts_ inn/index. html
I'm writing a book on the Tarot which is entitled "Tarot for Pagans".
I'm publishing it as a e-book and I'm open to all Pagan's thoughts on
this project. I will give anyone credit for their ideas. There something
positive. Well I will stop for now. I will be back next Wednesday. Take
Care All of  You and Blessed Be. AD(arch-druid) Stephen. Peace! Peace!
Peace!

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