Warm greetings!

Bless you for creating this miracle. Just discovered you while surfing the web.
I am a retired professional, have a university degree, am married and (of course
LDS).

For quite awhile now (I was an adult convert) I have been clinically depressed.
Attending church or attending to my callings was an  unbearable chore in that
state and seemed  to greatly  contribute to my depression;  of course, my spouse
and I were beginning to get into (heated) discussions because I could not "buy"
the idea  (furthered innocently by my spouse and by several males in our stake)
that men  are everything and women next to nothing. Well, acquainting myself
with the cool lessons, articles, and posts on the fMh certainly saved me from
this pit of dispair into which I had descended.

Now I see that the fault was not with God, Eve, our biship, stake president, the
missionaries (whom my husband continually invites over to speak with me) or the
Relief Society president but ----me. I simply hadn't become aware of my own 
righteous inherent power and was blaming all of these other people for my
impotence in church and in life (as an LDS woman.)

Our heavenly parents do not  make "junk" and I have the intellect, talents,  and
brain I have been given, not as an accident or mistake, but for good reason.I
quote from the esteemed  late Doctor Martin Luther King, Jr.:

              Free at last! Free at last!
              Thank God in Heaven; I'm free at last!

Thanks seems like pitiful little to commend my considerable gratitude to you!

Love and (en)light(enment)!

Yours in sisterhood and power,

Emma

Cute story but women should not be called "bitch"



--- In feministmormonhousewives@yahoogroups.com, Kristi Jordan
<kristilynnjordan@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Bottle of Wine
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> A woman and a man are involved in a car accident on a snowy, cold Monday
morning; it's a bad one. Both of their cars are totally demolished, but
amazingly neither of them is hurt. God works in mysterious ways.
>
>
>
>
> After they crawl out of their cars, the man is yelling about women drivers.
>
>
>
> The woman says, 'So, you're a man. That's interesting. I'm a woman. Wow, just
look at our cars! There's nothing left, but we're unhurt. This must be a sign
from God that we should be friends and live in peace for the rest of our days.'
>
>
> Flattered, the man replies, 'Oh yes, I agree completely, this must be a sign
from God! But you're still at fault...women shouldn't be allowed to drive.'
>
>
>
>
> The woman continues, 'And look at this, here's another miracle. My car is
completely demolished but this bottle of wine didn't break. Surely God wants us
to drink this wine and celebrate our good fortune.' She hands the bottle to the
man.
>
>
>
> The man nods his head in agreement, opens it and drinks half the bottle and
then hands it back to the woman.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The woman takes the bottle, puts the cap back on and hands it back to the man.
>
>
> The man asks, 'Aren't you having any?'
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The woman replies, 'No. I think I'll just wait for the police...'
>
>
>
> MORAL OF THE STORY:
> Women are clever bitches.
> Don't mess with them.
>
> Hotmail® has ever-growing storage! Don't worry about storage limits. Check it
out.
> _________________________________________________________________
> Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now.
>
http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MLOGEN&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TXT_MLOGE\
N_Local_Local_Restaurants_1x1
>

Getting married does not "cure" sexual addiction. It has been my experience that
only the Savior can heal such wounds. I married my husband in the Temple, not
knowing about his addiction.  We raised a family together, successfully
completed professional education and training, while serving in many leadership,
teaching, missionary, and service capacities over the years. At various times in
our marriage he tried to stop, to repent, only to fail over and over again. He
first told me about the problem when we had been married for 8 years, and I
thought he had repented because it was never brought up again. 16 yrs later he
revealed that he was still struggling. The Lord brought Heart-t-Heart (LDS-Book
of Mormon based 12 Step recovery program)into our lives which opened the way for
his complete and total healing of a 40+ yr addiction. He is not the same person
he was after almost 5 years of submitting his will to God's will, turning with
full purpose of heart to our Savior for comfort, for strength, for power, for 
all (instead of turning to his addiction). Presently we both attend the Church
ARP (Addiction Recovery Program) to stay in recovery by sharing our witness of
the Lord's tender mercies and healing power to free us of any bondage that we
might find ourselves ensnared in.I have come to understand that pride,
self-will, self reliance (as opposed to God-reliance) is the underlying problem
of addiction.
And by recognizing personal powerlessness; by acknowledging God's all
powerfulnness; and letting our Lord be our Savior that we experience healing and
salvation. It really is  His work and glory, to bring to pass the immortality
and eternal life of all mankind.

--- In feministmormonhousewives@yahoogroups.com, "hurricaneklm"
<katrina_jane84@...> wrote:
>
> I came across this page on accident looking for something else entirely. I
read the blog/discussion about the girl who felt like a whore for having a sex
drive. 99% of the comments were helpful in one way or another so I thought I
would ask for some advice of my own. However, I don't want anyone bashing me or
being negative or rude. I'm not asking so someone else can make my decision for
me, I'm just curious as to what other people would do in my situation.
>
> I am a practicing Mormon. I love the gospel and have a very strong testimony
of it and the Atonement. I'm am not questionning the church or my testimony of
it, that is not the issue. The issue is my fiance`.
>
> I met him when I was 12 years old, but we didn't become real friends until
over 10 years later. We started dating and he apparently had a crush on me since
he first saw me in church when we were 12 :). I had no idea, he said he was
always too intimidated to talk to me. The first week we started dating we talked
about a very serious and intense issue. He has a porn addiction. He's been
addicted for quite a few years. He has been very honest and up front from the
very beginning. To help you understand let me share a little bit more about him.
When he was a child he was sexually abused by a maid. He was 5 years old. He and
his family joined the church when he was 11. He never really sought out the
answer for himself to see if the gospel and the church were true. He followed
along with his family for several years.  He went to church while he was in
school but when he graduated he stopped going. Two years ago he realized he did
believe in the church and started to come back. He has been working with his
bishop on his addiction and has been trying so hard to stop. And trying so hard
to do what he feels is right, following the guidance and teachings of the
scriptures, Heavenly Father, our Savior, and the Prophets.
>
> Now let me share something about myself. I am one of those girls that did not
date, hardly at all. And it wasn't for a lack of trying. I went to school out in
Utah and was there for 6 years. Went on 6 dates. I put myself out there, I went
to activities, I even asked out the boys a few times ( 3 out of the 6 were me
asking them). I graduated from college and went home (east coast). I re-met my
fiance` from the singles branch we were in and we started to become friends and
then had an intense discussion 2 nights before our first date. I got the
impression that he could either be the man I was going to marry or someone who
would be very important in my life. As we continued to date I realized and got
the confirmation that he indeed was the ONE. Throughout our relationship he has
been utterly honest with me in dealing with his addiction. He's let me know when
he's made mistakes and even though it is hard and it hurts I've always felt the
rightness in marrying him. He does not act like he has an addiction, not towards
me. I have never felt like a piece of meat, degraded, or just wanted for my
body. I have never taken it personally.
>
> He has been completely amazing. Everything I've ever wanted and more I could
never have imagined. He has helped me so much in ways I could never have helped
myself and in ways that I never thought possible! You know those wish lists you
make when you're a teenager about what you want your future husband to be like?
And then the secret list you make in your head as an adult and dating? Well
everything on my list can be checked off and things can be added. He is sweet,
kind, understanding, funny, goodlooking, loves new things, is full of adventure,
sincere, has a strong testimony of the Gospel, and so much more! Even the little
things like being musical and loving sports are there! The things you hope for
but never say out loud because they sound superficial? He is those things too.
He is perfect for me. It is like he was made for me in everyway, and I was made
for him. I'm sure I just made some of you gag and throw up but I am not
exaggerating, I promise. I'll be saying some hard things and I don't want you to
just hear the bad things. I want you to know the good things too. I love him
more than I have loved anyone or anything. I love him more than I have the words
to say.
>
> I have actually dealt with addiction several times in my life. With my father
who's been sober since before I was born but called himself a 'dry drunk'. He
may have been sober since he joined the church but he still acted like an
alcoholic. My sister married an addict, and I have had my own struggles with a
food addiction/eating disorder. I am no stranger to addiction and what it is and
what it can do to you and those around you. Before I continue, those who don't
believe in addiction and who think its not a disease, I do not want to hear your
comments. I've been through enough to know that an addiction is real and is a
true disease.
>
> All of my experience has helped me with my fiance` until a few weeks ago. He
doesn't go online anymore unless there are other people around. That night he
needed to check his e-mail for a work thing. I was on the phone with him and
said go ahead. Now I was very tired and a couple minutes would go by before we
would say something. To make this long story short, he messed up and watched a
video while I was on the phone with him. This time though has been different. I
felt betrayed, hurt, degraded, disgusted, and in so much pain. He actually
watched a video of two people screwing WHILE I was on the phone with him.
>
> How could he?! How dare he?! I have never felt so hurt in my life or in any
point of our relationship! Each time he's made a mistake, and they have been
fewer and fewer, I have been ok and moved on because I know I'm supposed to
marry him. I know what its like to have an addiction. WHhy was this time so
different? Why am I hurting so much? Why am I so angry and terrified? I wanted
to hurt him as much as he had hurt me. I wanted to mail him the ring and say it
was over. I did not want to talk to him again or see him. I didn't want to marry
him, I did not think I could handle this anymore. Why do I have to marry someone
who has this addiction? It is actually the one addiction I'm afraid of the most,
give me drugs, alcohol, food.. anything but this one. A sex/porn addiction is
the hardest, in my opinion, to overcome. It is also the hardest on those they
love.
>
> This time of being engaged should be happy, and loving, not full of pain and
worry and hurt. Is this what I'm going to have to deal with my whole married
life? Afraid he'll mess up, afraid I'll get hurt again. Never sure of myself?
Feeling ugly because he has this unsatisfying need to find IT elsewhere? What
does this say about me? Am I staying in an unhealthy relationship? I know I've
gotten the answer several times that he is the right one but really? I have to
feel this much pain, and uncertainty forever? Surely this cannot be the case.
>
> I have been so confused lately and unsure of what to do next. Our relationship
has been different ever since. My fiance` said point blank that he knows he has
lost my trust and there is now a wall between us. He has said he is going to do
all he can to get my trust back. He has said and done the right things but I
somehow cannot get over this. I have been praying to Heavenly Father asking for
reassurance even though I've gotten more than my share of assurances in the
past. I know the scriptures in D&C 6 about being at peace because he's already
given me the answer. I just don't know if I can do much more of this. So I am
asking you all. Those of you who have had experience with addicitions, who have
had to make impossible decisions. What are your thoughts? What would you do in
my situation?
>

You said he was meeting with the bishop to work on his addiction, but has he
been to counseling?  While a bishop can be helpful in dealing with this problem,
it is a problem that needs professianal help, especially given his past history
of being sexually abused.  If he is not able to refrain from looking at porn
while on the phone with you, he needs serious help.
Please look into couples counseling before going forward with your marriage. 
While you do feel he is the one for you, he is making choices that will
adversely affect your future and the future of children that may join your
family.
Please look out for yourself, you are not responsible for his bad choices.
Cindy



--- In feministmormonhousewives@yahoogroups.com, "hurricaneklm"
<katrina_jane84@...> wrote:
>
> I came across this page on accident looking for something else entirely. I
read the blog/discussion about the girl who felt like a whore for having a sex
drive. 99% of the comments were helpful in one way or another so I thought I
would ask for some advice of my own. However, I don't want anyone bashing me or
being negative or rude. I'm not asking so someone else can make my decision for
me, I'm just curious as to what other people would do in my situation.
>
> I am a practicing Mormon. I love the gospel and have a very strong testimony
of it and the Atonement. I'm am not questionning the church or my testimony of
it, that is not the issue. The issue is my fiance`.
>
> I met him when I was 12 years old, but we didn't become real friends until
over 10 years later. We started dating and he apparently had a crush on me since
he first saw me in church when we were 12 :). I had no idea, he said he was
always too intimidated to talk to me. The first week we started dating we talked
about a very serious and intense issue. He has a porn addiction. He's been
addicted for quite a few years. He has been very honest and up front from the
very beginning. To help you understand let me share a little bit more about him.
When he was a child he was sexually abused by a maid. He was 5 years old. He and
his family joined the church when he was 11. He never really sought out the
answer for himself to see if the gospel and the church were true. He followed
along with his family for several years.  He went to church while he was in
school but when he graduated he stopped going. Two years ago he realized he did
believe in the church and started to come back. He has been working with his
bishop on his addiction and has been trying so hard to stop. And trying so hard
to do what he feels is right, following the guidance and teachings of the
scriptures, Heavenly Father, our Savior, and the Prophets.
>
> Now let me share something about myself. I am one of those girls that did not
date, hardly at all. And it wasn't for a lack of trying. I went to school out in
Utah and was there for 6 years. Went on 6 dates. I put myself out there, I went
to activities, I even asked out the boys a few times ( 3 out of the 6 were me
asking them). I graduated from college and went home (east coast). I re-met my
fiance` from the singles branch we were in and we started to become friends and
then had an intense discussion 2 nights before our first date. I got the
impression that he could either be the man I was going to marry or someone who
would be very important in my life. As we continued to date I realized and got
the confirmation that he indeed was the ONE. Throughout our relationship he has
been utterly honest with me in dealing with his addiction. He's let me know when
he's made mistakes and even though it is hard and it hurts I've always felt the
rightness in marrying him. He does not act like he has an addiction, not towards
me. I have never felt like a piece of meat, degraded, or just wanted for my
body. I have never taken it personally.
>
> He has been completely amazing. Everything I've ever wanted and more I could
never have imagined. He has helped me so much in ways I could never have helped
myself and in ways that I never thought possible! You know those wish lists you
make when you're a teenager about what you want your future husband to be like?
And then the secret list you make in your head as an adult and dating? Well
everything on my list can be checked off and things can be added. He is sweet,
kind, understanding, funny, goodlooking, loves new things, is full of adventure,
sincere, has a strong testimony of the Gospel, and so much more! Even the little
things like being musical and loving sports are there! The things you hope for
but never say out loud because they sound superficial? He is those things too.
He is perfect for me. It is like he was made for me in everyway, and I was made
for him. I'm sure I just made some of you gag and throw up but I am not
exaggerating, I promise. I'll be saying some hard things and I don't want you to
just hear the bad things. I want you to know the good things too. I love him
more than I have loved anyone or anything. I love him more than I have the words
to say.
>
> I have actually dealt with addiction several times in my life. With my father
who's been sober since before I was born but called himself a 'dry drunk'. He
may have been sober since he joined the church but he still acted like an
alcoholic. My sister married an addict, and I have had my own struggles with a
food addiction/eating disorder. I am no stranger to addiction and what it is and
what it can do to you and those around you. Before I continue, those who don't
believe in addiction and who think its not a disease, I do not want to hear your
comments. I've been through enough to know that an addiction is real and is a
true disease.
>
> All of my experience has helped me with my fiance` until a few weeks ago. He
doesn't go online anymore unless there are other people around. That night he
needed to check his e-mail for a work thing. I was on the phone with him and
said go ahead. Now I was very tired and a couple minutes would go by before we
would say something. To make this long story short, he messed up and watched a
video while I was on the phone with him. This time though has been different. I
felt betrayed, hurt, degraded, disgusted, and in so much pain. He actually
watched a video of two people screwing WHILE I was on the phone with him.
>
> How could he?! How dare he?! I have never felt so hurt in my life or in any
point of our relationship! Each time he's made a mistake, and they have been
fewer and fewer, I have been ok and moved on because I know I'm supposed to
marry him. I know what its like to have an addiction. WHhy was this time so
different? Why am I hurting so much? Why am I so angry and terrified? I wanted
to hurt him as much as he had hurt me. I wanted to mail him the ring and say it
was over. I did not want to talk to him again or see him. I didn't want to marry
him, I did not think I could handle this anymore. Why do I have to marry someone
who has this addiction? It is actually the one addiction I'm afraid of the most,
give me drugs, alcohol, food.. anything but this one. A sex/porn addiction is
the hardest, in my opinion, to overcome. It is also the hardest on those they
love.
>
> This time of being engaged should be happy, and loving, not full of pain and
worry and hurt. Is this what I'm going to have to deal with my whole married
life? Afraid he'll mess up, afraid I'll get hurt again. Never sure of myself?
Feeling ugly because he has this unsatisfying need to find IT elsewhere? What
does this say about me? Am I staying in an unhealthy relationship? I know I've
gotten the answer several times that he is the right one but really? I have to
feel this much pain, and uncertainty forever? Surely this cannot be the case.
>
> I have been so confused lately and unsure of what to do next. Our relationship
has been different ever since. My fiance` said point blank that he knows he has
lost my trust and there is now a wall between us. He has said he is going to do
all he can to get my trust back. He has said and done the right things but I
somehow cannot get over this. I have been praying to Heavenly Father asking for
reassurance even though I've gotten more than my share of assurances in the
past. I know the scriptures in D&C 6 about being at peace because he's already
given me the answer. I just don't know if I can do much more of this. So I am
asking you all. Those of you who have had experience with addicitions, who have
had to make impossible decisions. What are your thoughts? What would you do in
my situation?
>

I'm a husband and father of 3 kids.  I hope more people throw in ideas to help
you.  This is a tough issue and I guess the more ideas the better.

Did you say you feel particularly hurt this time and this time only?  Or you
meant his falling off the wagon angered you?

I'm just thinking: if it's only this time, maybe you're particularly angry b/c
he's watching it while talking to you--that maybe to you is like cheating right
in front of you.  But if you are angry simply b/c of his addiction comes back,
that's another story.  My opinion is you'll have to first figure out the reason
why you are so angry.  After you find out, you'll want to talk w/ him about it. 
Talk about your feelings, your reasons.

For example, if you are angry b/c you think this addiction is not godly, is
committing sin, then you probably have to help him (and yourself) to strengthen
and remind the testimony.  Keep working w/ bishop and spiritual leaders
together.  Believing that Heavenly Father give the gift of repentance and also
he is worth of your efforts.

But if your core of anger is b/c you think he is potentially favor those big
boobs to you, and you really feel threatened by this, then you'll have to let
him know your insecure feeling.  The real purpose of porn is to sell money, not
education, so they are exaggerating everything up to a very unrealistic level. 
You might want to let him know that watching it will potentially twist his
perception of you and women in general, and you really don't want that.  So when
his addiction is getting him, he should first think about the consequences on
this relationship, and your trust.

Also, are you comfortable on talking about sex?  Sex is a very important part in
marriage: all the expectations, perspectives, behaviors.... if your perceptions
are very different then that will be a problem.  I'm a psychologist, so bare w/
me if you are a bit uncomfortable on the following--just dismiss it as an old
psychologist talking: oral sex, sexual positions, what (behaviors) turn you/him
on, etc.  He is addicted to porn, he must have some "expectations" about those
topics.  Discuss w/ him, let him know your limits.  He should NEVER force his
idea on you, especially expect you to do those things ("How come those women can
do that and you can't?"), but within your limits you are willing to explore new
things together to keep your sex life alive.

Don't simply blame him.  From your description I think he's done his best.

One more thing: I will suggest you to go professional counseling together as a
couple.  I believe it will help you guys, since I can tell you both are very
committed to this relationship.

Good luck!!

Mark



--- In feministmormonhousewives@yahoogroups.com, "hurricaneklm"
<katrina_jane84@...> wrote:
>
> I came across this page on accident looking for something else entirely. I
read the blog/discussion about the girl who felt like a whore for having a sex
drive. 99% of the comments were helpful in one way or another so I thought I
would ask for some advice of my own. However, I don't want anyone bashing me or
being negative or rude. I'm not asking so someone else can make my decision for
me, I'm just curious as to what other people would do in my situation.
>
> I am a practicing Mormon. I love the gospel and have a very strong testimony
of it and the Atonement. I'm am not questionning the church or my testimony of
it, that is not the issue. The issue is my fiance`.
>
> I met him when I was 12 years old, but we didn't become real friends until
over 10 years later. We started dating and he apparently had a crush on me since
he first saw me in church when we were 12 :). I had no idea, he said he was
always too intimidated to talk to me. The first week we started dating we talked
about a very serious and intense issue. He has a porn addiction. He's been
addicted for quite a few years. He has been very honest and up front from the
very beginning. To help you understand let me share a little bit more about him.
When he was a child he was sexually abused by a maid. He was 5 years old. He and
his family joined the church when he was 11. He never really sought out the
answer for himself to see if the gospel and the church were true. He followed
along with his family for several years.  He went to church while he was in
school but when he graduated he stopped going. Two years ago he realized he did
believe in the church and started to come back. He has been working with his
bishop on his addiction and has been trying so hard to stop. And trying so hard
to do what he feels is right, following the guidance and teachings of the
scriptures, Heavenly Father, our Savior, and the Prophets.
>
> Now let me share something about myself. I am one of those girls that did not
date, hardly at all. And it wasn't for a lack of trying. I went to school out in
Utah and was there for 6 years. Went on 6 dates. I put myself out there, I went
to activities, I even asked out the boys a few times ( 3 out of the 6 were me
asking them). I graduated from college and went home (east coast). I re-met my
fiance` from the singles branch we were in and we started to become friends and
then had an intense discussion 2 nights before our first date. I got the
impression that he could either be the man I was going to marry or someone who
would be very important in my life. As we continued to date I realized and got
the confirmation that he indeed was the ONE. Throughout our relationship he has
been utterly honest with me in dealing with his addiction. He's let me know when
he's made mistakes and even though it is hard and it hurts I've always felt the
rightness in marrying him. He does not act like he has an addiction, not towards
me. I have never felt like a piece of meat, degraded, or just wanted for my
body. I have never taken it personally.
>
> He has been completely amazing. Everything I've ever wanted and more I could
never have imagined. He has helped me so much in ways I could never have helped
myself and in ways that I never thought possible! You know those wish lists you
make when you're a teenager about what you want your future husband to be like?
And then the secret list you make in your head as an adult and dating? Well
everything on my list can be checked off and things can be added. He is sweet,
kind, understanding, funny, goodlooking, loves new things, is full of adventure,
sincere, has a strong testimony of the Gospel, and so much more! Even the little
things like being musical and loving sports are there! The things you hope for
but never say out loud because they sound superficial? He is those things too.
He is perfect for me. It is like he was made for me in everyway, and I was made
for him. I'm sure I just made some of you gag and throw up but I am not
exaggerating, I promise. I'll be saying some hard things and I don't want you to
just hear the bad things. I want you to know the good things too. I love him
more than I have loved anyone or anything. I love him more than I have the words
to say.
>
> I have actually dealt with addiction several times in my life. With my father
who's been sober since before I was born but called himself a 'dry drunk'. He
may have been sober since he joined the church but he still acted like an
alcoholic. My sister married an addict, and I have had my own struggles with a
food addiction/eating disorder. I am no stranger to addiction and what it is and
what it can do to you and those around you. Before I continue, those who don't
believe in addiction and who think its not a disease, I do not want to hear your
comments. I've been through enough to know that an addiction is real and is a
true disease.
>
> All of my experience has helped me with my fiance` until a few weeks ago. He
doesn't go online anymore unless there are other people around. That night he
needed to check his e-mail for a work thing. I was on the phone with him and
said go ahead. Now I was very tired and a couple minutes would go by before we
would say something. To make this long story short, he messed up and watched a
video while I was on the phone with him. This time though has been different. I
felt betrayed, hurt, degraded, disgusted, and in so much pain. He actually
watched a video of two people screwing WHILE I was on the phone with him.
>
> How could he?! How dare he?! I have never felt so hurt in my life or in any
point of our relationship! Each time he's made a mistake, and they have been
fewer and fewer, I have been ok and moved on because I know I'm supposed to
marry him. I know what its like to have an addiction. WHhy was this time so
different? Why am I hurting so much? Why am I so angry and terrified? I wanted
to hurt him as much as he had hurt me. I wanted to mail him the ring and say it
was over. I did not want to talk to him again or see him. I didn't want to marry
him, I did not think I could handle this anymore. Why do I have to marry someone
who has this addiction? It is actually the one addiction I'm afraid of the most,
give me drugs, alcohol, food.. anything but this one. A sex/porn addiction is
the hardest, in my opinion, to overcome. It is also the hardest on those they
love.
>
> This time of being engaged should be happy, and loving, not full of pain and
worry and hurt. Is this what I'm going to have to deal with my whole married
life? Afraid he'll mess up, afraid I'll get hurt again. Never sure of myself?
Feeling ugly because he has this unsatisfying need to find IT elsewhere? What
does this say about me? Am I staying in an unhealthy relationship? I know I've
gotten the answer several times that he is the right one but really? I have to
feel this much pain, and uncertainty forever? Surely this cannot be the case.
>
> I have been so confused lately and unsure of what to do next. Our relationship
has been different ever since. My fiance` said point blank that he knows he has
lost my trust and there is now a wall between us. He has said he is going to do
all he can to get my trust back. He has said and done the right things but I
somehow cannot get over this. I have been praying to Heavenly Father asking for
reassurance even though I've gotten more than my share of assurances in the
past. I know the scriptures in D&C 6 about being at peace because he's already
given me the answer. I just don't know if I can do much more of this. So I am
asking you all. Those of you who have had experience with addicitions, who have
had to make impossible decisions. What are your thoughts? What would you do in
my situation?
>

I came across this page on accident looking for something else entirely. I read
the blog/discussion about the girl who felt like a whore for having a sex drive.
99% of the comments were helpful in one way or another so I thought I would ask
for some advice of my own. However, I don't want anyone bashing me or being
negative or rude. I'm not asking so someone else can make my decision for me,
I'm just curious as to what other people would do in my situation.

I am a practicing Mormon. I love the gospel and have a very strong testimony of
it and the Atonement. I'm am not questionning the church or my testimony of it,
that is not the issue. The issue is my fiance`.

I met him when I was 12 years old, but we didn't become real friends until over
10 years later. We started dating and he apparently had a crush on me since he
first saw me in church when we were 12 :). I had no idea, he said he was always
too intimidated to talk to me. The first week we started dating we talked about
a very serious and intense issue. He has a porn addiction. He's been addicted
for quite a few years. He has been very honest and up front from the very
beginning. To help you understand let me share a little bit more about him. When
he was a child he was sexually abused by a maid. He was 5 years old. He and his
family joined the church when he was 11. He never really sought out the answer
for himself to see if the gospel and the church were true. He followed along
with his family for several years.  He went to church while he was in school but
when he graduated he stopped going. Two years ago he realized he did believe in
the church and started to come back. He has been working with his bishop on his
addiction and has been trying so hard to stop. And trying so hard to do what he
feels is right, following the guidance and teachings of the scriptures, Heavenly
Father, our Savior, and the Prophets.

Now let me share something about myself. I am one of those girls that did not
date, hardly at all. And it wasn't for a lack of trying. I went to school out in
Utah and was there for 6 years. Went on 6 dates. I put myself out there, I went
to activities, I even asked out the boys a few times ( 3 out of the 6 were me
asking them). I graduated from college and went home (east coast). I re-met my
fiance` from the singles branch we were in and we started to become friends and
then had an intense discussion 2 nights before our first date. I got the
impression that he could either be the man I was going to marry or someone who
would be very important in my life. As we continued to date I realized and got
the confirmation that he indeed was the ONE. Throughout our relationship he has
been utterly honest with me in dealing with his addiction. He's let me know when
he's made mistakes and even though it is hard and it hurts I've always felt the
rightness in marrying him. He does not act like he has an addiction, not towards
me. I have never felt like a piece of meat, degraded, or just wanted for my
body. I have never taken it personally.

He has been completely amazing. Everything I've ever wanted and more I could
never have imagined. He has helped me so much in ways I could never have helped
myself and in ways that I never thought possible! You know those wish lists you
make when you're a teenager about what you want your future husband to be like?
And then the secret list you make in your head as an adult and dating? Well
everything on my list can be checked off and things can be added. He is sweet,
kind, understanding, funny, goodlooking, loves new things, is full of adventure,
sincere, has a strong testimony of the Gospel, and so much more! Even the little
things like being musical and loving sports are there! The things you hope for
but never say out loud because they sound superficial? He is those things too.
He is perfect for me. It is like he was made for me in everyway, and I was made
for him. I'm sure I just made some of you gag and throw up but I am not
exaggerating, I promise. I'll be saying some hard things and I don't want you to
just hear the bad things. I want you to know the good things too. I love him
more than I have loved anyone or anything. I love him more than I have the words
to say.

I have actually dealt with addiction several times in my life. With my father
who's been sober since before I was born but called himself a 'dry drunk'. He
may have been sober since he joined the church but he still acted like an
alcoholic. My sister married an addict, and I have had my own struggles with a
food addiction/eating disorder. I am no stranger to addiction and what it is and
what it can do to you and those around you. Before I continue, those who don't
believe in addiction and who think its not a disease, I do not want to hear your
comments. I've been through enough to know that an addiction is real and is a
true disease.

All of my experience has helped me with my fiance` until a few weeks ago. He
doesn't go online anymore unless there are other people around. That night he
needed to check his e-mail for a work thing. I was on the phone with him and
said go ahead. Now I was very tired and a couple minutes would go by before we
would say something. To make this long story short, he messed up and watched a
video while I was on the phone with him. This time though has been different. I
felt betrayed, hurt, degraded, disgusted, and in so much pain. He actually
watched a video of two people screwing WHILE I was on the phone with him.

How could he?! How dare he?! I have never felt so hurt in my life or in any
point of our relationship! Each time he's made a mistake, and they have been
fewer and fewer, I have been ok and moved on because I know I'm supposed to
marry him. I know what its like to have an addiction. WHhy was this time so
different? Why am I hurting so much? Why am I so angry and terrified? I wanted
to hurt him as much as he had hurt me. I wanted to mail him the ring and say it
was over. I did not want to talk to him again or see him. I didn't want to marry
him, I did not think I could handle this anymore. Why do I have to marry someone
who has this addiction? It is actually the one addiction I'm afraid of the most,
give me drugs, alcohol, food.. anything but this one. A sex/porn addiction is
the hardest, in my opinion, to overcome. It is also the hardest on those they
love.

This time of being engaged should be happy, and loving, not full of pain and
worry and hurt. Is this what I'm going to have to deal with my whole married
life? Afraid he'll mess up, afraid I'll get hurt again. Never sure of myself?
Feeling ugly because he has this unsatisfying need to find IT elsewhere? What
does this say about me? Am I staying in an unhealthy relationship? I know I've
gotten the answer several times that he is the right one but really? I have to
feel this much pain, and uncertainty forever? Surely this cannot be the case.

I have been so confused lately and unsure of what to do next. Our relationship
has been different ever since. My fiance` said point blank that he knows he has
lost my trust and there is now a wall between us. He has said he is going to do
all he can to get my trust back. He has said and done the right things but I
somehow cannot get over this. I have been praying to Heavenly Father asking for
reassurance even though I've gotten more than my share of assurances in the
past. I know the scriptures in D&C 6 about being at peace because he's already
given me the answer. I just don't know if I can do much more of this. So I am
asking you all. Those of you who have had experience with addicitions, who have
had to make impossible decisions. What are your thoughts? What would you do in
my situation?

Hello!

Just wanted to introduce myself and and maybe get some advice from the group. I have been a non-practicing Mormon since I was 14. I didn't grow up Mormon, I converted when I was 8 years old and was baptized the same year.  My mother went with me to church for a while, but did not get baptized herself. I really don't know why I joined the church and when I was 14 I didn't feel like I was being treated equally or that women were very respected in the church.  Now that I am 23, I am looking for some spiritual fulfillment, some sort of connection with god and with faith. My problem  or problems are that I don't believe in Jesus Christ( sorry if that offends) that he was the son of God or that he had some sort of special powers (like healing the sick and so on). I do believe he was a great man and passed on great teachings on how to treat your fellow man and how to behave in a moral manner. I also think that the bible is a collection of stories that should not be taken as fact and that there are many ways to interpret it.  Along with all that, I am in support of gay rights ( the right to marriage and to adopt) and I am pro-choice.  Now the question I pose is, I am way too liberal to rejoin the Mormon church? I feel like if I did I would be in a constant debate with fellow members about these issues. Would I be outcast or excommunicated ? Would I have trouble finding a more liberal mate in the church? And since the church believes in Christ, would I be going against that?  Should I just continue on and look for a religion that is not Christ centered and is more liberal? I really don't know what to do. You might be asking your self, " If this is all true, why do you want to come back to the church?" I loved the sense of community I felt and the fact that all the members were like brothers and sisters. So what it comes down to is- Is being Mormon for me? I know that is a question only I can answer, but some feed back on this would be GREATLY appreciated. Also wanted to know if  any one knows if there are wards in the Los Angeles area that were more liberal than others. Or if there is anyone willing to be my feminist guide back into the church, if you think I should go back to the church at all.  Well thank you for reading and feel free to contact me if you have more advice or want to make a new friend.


Thanks alot, lots of love,

Oxcat525

----- Original Message -----

From: widoherty6

To: feministmormonhousewives@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 10:36 AM

Subject: [feministmormonhousewives] Re: Food Ideas

I like Stoffers frozen lasagna, it tastes good and is already frozen. I find that it is cheaper to buy it this way rather than buying all the ingredients to make it from scratch. Plus, I hate cooking the noodles.
Cindy
--- In feministmormonhousewives@yahoogroups.com, "fmhrebecca" <britishbecky@...> wrote:
>
> That's a lovely idea.
>
> I'd suggest something easy like spaghetti bolognese - you only need ground beef, pasta sauce and a packet of dried spaghetti. It freezes well, so you can make a big batch. (I recently did this for a friend of mine who had a baby)
>

I like Stoffers frozen lasagna, it tastes good and is already frozen.  I find
that it is cheaper to buy it this way rather than buying all the ingredients to
make it from scratch.  Plus, I hate cooking the noodles.
Cindy
--- In feministmormonhousewives@yahoogroups.com, "fmhrebecca" <britishbecky@...>
wrote:
>
> That's a lovely idea.
>
> I'd suggest something easy like spaghetti bolognese - you only need ground
beef, pasta sauce and a packet of dried spaghetti. It freezes well, so you can
make a big batch. (I recently did this for a friend of mine who had a baby)
>

That's a lovely idea.

I'd suggest something easy like spaghetti bolognese - you only need ground beef,
pasta sauce and a packet of dried spaghetti. It freezes well, so you can make a
big batch. (I recently did this for a friend of mine who had a baby)

If we prayed about all of our problems and "left it up to Heavenly Father" and
didn't actually do anything about our problems, then our lives would fall apart.
For example, say you lost your job and all you did was prayed about it and left
it up to Heavenly Father.  You didn't do your responsibility to actually look
for a job, then guess what, friend, a job wouldn't just fall in your lap.  You
would never receive a job because you just prayed about it.  We have to be
active in our spirituality.  Someone sure would be upset if their teenage
daughter started drinking or sneaking out at night or do whatever it is that
this woman has done.  Trust me, just because this woman has a calling doesn't
mean she will be a good role model for the young women.  It takes a whole
village to raise a child.  It is your responsibility to make sure this woman
will not taint the churches young women.
I have been in the same situation before.  A member of my family, a very
important calling, blah blah blah.  I talked to our bishop and he looked into
it.  There wasn't much we could do because this man is a liar.  He is one way at
church and another way at home.  It is horrible but at least he is nice and
mannerly with the members of his ward.  At least I tried to do something about
it but there was nothing I could do.  Now it has to be left up to Heavenly
Father.
  --- In feministmormonhousewives@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy"
<recoverylifenet@...> wrote:
>
> Do what the spirit tells you to do.  What else is there?
>
> --- In feministmormonhousewives@yahoogroups.com, "Shaynee" <shaynee@> wrote:
> >
> > I have a Moral Dilemma that I need help with!  There is a sister my ward who
has a calling in YW where she is a role model for the youth.  I know for a fact
that she should not be holding a calling, that she did something a couple of
months back that if the bishop knew about, she would probably even be
disfellowshipped. She does all of this stuff and then goes to church and acts a
totally different way.  It seems to me fake and hypocritical, and if something
happened and her lifestyle caught up with her... what is that going to say to
our young women that look up to her?!
> >
> > If you know something like this about a member in your ward, is it on you to
let the bishop know? Or do you just look the other way?  Here's another twist,
she's a member of my family and her father is the 1st counselor.  What should I
do?
> >
>

Do what the spirit tells you to do.  What else is there?

--- In feministmormonhousewives@yahoogroups.com, "Shaynee" <shaynee@...> wrote:
>
> I have a Moral Dilemma that I need help with!  There is a sister my ward who
has a calling in YW where she is a role model for the youth.  I know for a fact
that she should not be holding a calling, that she did something a couple of
months back that if the bishop knew about, she would probably even be
disfellowshipped. She does all of this stuff and then goes to church and acts a
totally different way.  It seems to me fake and hypocritical, and if something
happened and her lifestyle caught up with her... what is that going to say to
our young women that look up to her?!
>
> If you know something like this about a member in your ward, is it on you to
let the bishop know? Or do you just look the other way?  Here's another twist,
she's a member of my family and her father is the 1st counselor.  What should I
do?
>

Leave it be friend... perhaps its what she needs at the moment. Perhaps the Lord knows that.

---

To: feministmormonhousewives@yahoogroups.com
From: shaynee@carolina.rr.com
Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 00:31:38 +0000
Subject: [feministmormonhousewives] Moral Dilemma

I have a Moral Dilemma that I need help with! There is a sister my ward who has a calling in YW where she is a role model for the youth. I know for a fact that she should not be holding a calling, that she did something a couple of months back that if the bishop knew about, she would probably even be disfellowshipped. She does all of this stuff and then goes to church and acts a totally different way. It seems to me fake and hypocritical, and if something happened and her lifestyle caught up with her... what is that going to say to our young women that look up to her?!

If you know something like this about a member in your ward, is it on you to let the bishop know? Or do you just look the other way? Here's another twist, she's a member of my family and her father is the 1st counselor. What should I do?

---

Hotmail® has a new way to see what's up with your friends. Check it out.

I think if you really feel like you need to say something, then you should be
saying something to her.

You don't know that she's not discussed it with the Bishop, and even if she
hasn't, going behind her back isn't the way to do it.

We had a post on this on the main site a while back (that I wrote actually). It
was about NOT confessing other people's sins. You might find it useful.

http://www.feministmormonhousewives.org/?p=1203

I have a Moral Dilemma that I need help with!  There is a sister my ward who has
a calling in YW where she is a role model for the youth.  I know for a fact that
she should not be holding a calling, that she did something a couple of months
back that if the bishop knew about, she would probably even be disfellowshipped.
She does all of this stuff and then goes to church and acts a totally different
way.  It seems to me fake and hypocritical, and if something happened and her
lifestyle caught up with her... what is that going to say to our young women
that look up to her?!

If you know something like this about a member in your ward, is it on you to let
the bishop know? Or do you just look the other way?  Here's another twist, she's
a member of my family and her father is the 1st counselor.  What should I do?

Welcome, Marie.

Mark

--- In feministmormonhousewives@yahoogroups.com, "Jeanne Jusevic"
<jeannejusevic@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
>  I haven't received email from this list ages. It is nice to meet you.
>
>
>
> jeanne
>
> http://jeannej.blogspot.com/
>
>   _____
>
> From: feministmormonhousewives@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:feministmormonhousewives@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
mariesandes
> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 3:30 PM
> To: feministmormonhousewives@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [feministmormonhousewives] Introduction
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I have not seen any place for Introductions so I will start one.
>
> I am Marie Sandes and I am new to the site.
>
> Just to let you know I am a very liberal mormon housewife/career woman.
>
> I was a DCFS Social Worker for years and now own my own businesses.
>
> I just moved to SLC and I am in the middle of a lot of poor women
> trying to be who they don't want to be.
>
> I hope this will be a place of laughter and peace.
>
> I look forward to speaking to you all.
>
> Marie
>

This one is easy. . . just say you can't do it.  Tell her to call her
friends and ask them herself.



--- In feministmormonhousewives@yahoogroups.com, marilyn@... wrote:
>
> Wow-i posed this on Oct 10th and it was approved on Nov 4th??
>
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: marilyn@...
>
> Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:24:48
> To: <feministmormonhousewives@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [feministmormonhousewives] Question about compassionate
service
>
>
> Nope not a real need at all. Heck I got not so much as a dinner
after coming home with peermie twins and needing to learn to walk
again after 173 days of bedrest.
>
> Your instincts are right. I'd say no to that one in a heartbeat.
>
>
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "goincraz1" <goincraz1@...>
>
> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2008 21:00:29
> To: <feministmormonhousewives@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [feministmormonhousewives] Question about compassionate service
>
>
> I live in a small branch so many people have several callings.  I
> enjoy my callings but have been confused about one.  I am
> compassionate services (the only one).  I work full time out of the
> home, have two kids of my own, am a primary teacher, visiting teacher
> and compassionate services.  Lately I've been overwhelmed with
> requests for compassionate service.  I know that its a wonderful
> thing but I'm feeling as though people are taking advantage of it and
> using it as an "I want" instead of a real need.  My latest is someone
> who is having a baby (nothing wrong with the pregnancy etc. that I
> know of or have been told).  I have been requested to set up meals
> for a week (no biggy) but also to get someone to "babysit" their 3
> year old for the week as well (asking members to watch her during the
> days or nights)so they can enjoy the new baby and get some rest.  I
> agree it would be a "nice" thing, but is it a real need?  Her husband
> is home and off of work, they have a teenager, and an 8 year old and
> 7 year old.  She has family a couple hours away "but they couldn't be
> here because they have to work".  Well, I work, and so do many of the
> other women I'm calling to help.  I've got several of the women
> saying "they want me to watch the 3 year old?" to me.  I thought that
> you turn to family first, friends next, then the RS for help.  Her
> husband is home, off of work, and the rest of the kids are at school
> during the day (except the 3 year old and this I think is why they'd
> like her watched).  So, am I off thinking that this is not really a
> real need but a want.  I'm somewhat feeling taken advantage of as I
> think several of our members are now.  And not to mention its darn
> near impossible to even get someone to do primary for me if I'm going
> to be gone.  I've only gotten 3 classes covered in the past 2 years.
> So, I'm feeling like DH should be watching the 3 year old and helping
> with dinners.  What do you all think?
>