Yes, press each for consistency, because for any set of propositions, S, if S is inconsistent, then at least one proposition in the set S is false!  So, the ultmiate pressing for consistency is to stay in the truth and not depart from it and also to expose error and depart from it!

On other topics!

I pray  for your domestic situation with Heather!

I pray  for you finding a good church home!

I pray for success in your pottery

I pray that you and John may delight in the having of children together!

I pray for your general well being and continued walk with the Lord and I pray that for John as well!!!!!

Blessings, dear sister in the Lord!

Blessings!

Jon

Beth Ellen Nagle wrote:

Jon, It goes without saying that I look forward to your comments on John 3:16.   I think we can share in a non-debate kind of way but also press each other for consistency. Regards, Beth Ellen

----- Original Message -----

From: Jonathan M Gold

To: faithmaps@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:29 PM

Subject: Re: [faithmaps] Theological Etiquette - Part 1:

 Chris, this is beautiful!

Thanks so much for sharing it helps me to do what I want to do with writing about John 3:16.  It articulates for me the spirit to just
share in a non-debate type of way.  I really thank you for this piece.  I will read it over several times and pray over it.

Thanks again!

Blessings!

Jon

Chris G Criminger wrote:

> Hi Everyone,
> I read a while back Elouise Fraser's words about theological etiquette
> that convicted me to the core.  I'm passing them on to you for further
> reflection, critique, and study  -  Chris Criminger
>
> ************************
>
> I learned about etiquette at the family dinner table.  Don't complain.
> Don't talk with food in your mouth.  No elbows on the table.  No playing
> with food on your plate.  No arguing with your sisters or talking back to
> your parents.  And don't forget to say please and thank you.  Family
> meals were not lessons in honesty or grace.  They were occasions for
> practicing proper manners.  Our family practiced good manners but
> etiquette is also about how we relate to each other.  I am "haunted" in
> my theological work as I have sat down at hundreds of tables with a
> fierce need to be right.  I desired the approval of others so much.  My
> Bible college, seminary, and graduate training further reinforced the
> need to be right in matters relating to theology.  I was deeply unsure of
> myself and I was sharply critical of others theological ideas.
>
> Theological etiquette is about relational commitment., not about getting
> the fine or even larger points of doctrine all straightened out.  It's
> about learning to sit down together face to face.  Beginning to see and
> know each other.  Beginning to listen and learn.  Beginning actively to
> appreciate, honor and depend on others at the table.  It's about learning
> to join with my table partners instead of checking them out theologically
> to see how they are doing on the correctness scale.  Theological
> etiquette isn't about skin-deep niceness and courtesy.  It's about taking
> a deep breath and making space for truth to emerge.  Not doctrinal truth
> in carefully crafted propositions, but relational truth that invites us
> to explore connections between what's happening right now and what we
> believe about God and God's world.  It's about acknowledging concretely
> the presence of God's Holy Spirit among us.  It's about accepting our
> human limitations and knowing we'll be attracted to self-serving points
> of view no matter how pure our intentions.
>
> In my theological work, salvation means giving up attempts to justify my
> own beliefs and behaviors.  It means allowing God to replace my anxious
> need to be right with an equally powerful need to understand others by
> making connections with them, even though I'm sometimes uncomfortable
> with them at the table.  Slowly, as I listen to the voices of my new
> table companions, I began hearing God's voice.  I began to discern how
> many walls had been erected by well meaning individuals between me and
> others.  I'm learning more to trust God rather than my own rightness or
> my paralyzing fear of being wrong.
>
> The first spiritual exercise in theological etiquette is to speak truly.
> For me this always begins with giving up silence that supports my need to
> be right.  By retreating into silence under the guise of listening.
> Sometimes silence was a way to survive a hostile or judgmental
> atmosphere.  Sometimes I withheld myself from conversation because I
> thought there was nothing further I could contribute or learn.  On the
> one hand, my thoughts and questions seemed trivial, irrelevant or naive,
> not worth mentioning in the presence of others who seemed more astute,
> articulate and sure of themselves.  On the other hand, my mind was
> already made up, so that further discussion didn't seem necessary or
> productive.
>
> As a theologian, I need to open my mouth and hear my own voice at the
> table.  I need to speak, whether I think my contribution is important or
> not.  And as I speak, I must speak truly.  Speaking the truth doesn't
> mean saying what I think someone else needs to hear.  Most of my life I
> thought "speaking the truth in love" meant delivering unwelcome
> news----news about how some other person had offended me or the community
> by erring in thought, word, deed or belief.  As a reluctant but
> determined bearer of this so called truth, I didn't feel at all
> implicated in the offending matter.  I was acting as God's spokesperson.
> I was there to deliver a message.  The truth about the other person
> seemed perfectly clear.  Now there was this nasty but necessary task to
> be carried out, the task of "speaking the truth in love."  All for your
> own good, of course.
>
> This isn't speaking truly.  To speak truly is to bear witness from the
> place in which I presently stand.  I can't assume the other person is the
> major candidate for change.  I can assume that when I speak truly there
> will be changes in me.  Speaking truly means bearing witness to my own
> questions, assumptions, experiences, beliefs, observations, discoveries
> and struggles.  Further, it means doing this without constantly looking
> over my shoulder to see how I'm doing.  I know I'm speaking truly when
> I'm willing to be caught in the act.  Caught in the act of being human
> instead of appearing ominicompentent and all knowing.  Caught with my
> limited experiences of life showing.  Caught not knowing what to say next
> or how to respond to every question.  Caught in assumptions I thought I
> had left behind.  Caught saying things that betray the secrets of my
> heart.
>
> Being caught in the act isn't a disaster.  It's an invitation to relax,
> acknowledge God's gracious presence in the awkwardness, tension and
> confusion of the moment.  Sometimes its a golden opportunity to laugh at
> the absurdities of our common humanity.  It may lead to self-examination
> and repentance.  It may even be a huge load off my shoulder.  It takes
> inhuman energy to script, choreograph, carry out and defend perfection.
>
> (Elouise  Renich Fraser "Confessions of A Beginning Theologian" (Inter
> Varsity Press, 1998). pp.77-82).
>
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