jon
wroteThanks
for your interest! How about carefully going through the Owen book
chapter by chapter. Most of the chapters are relatively short.
I think this is important in order to understand what his claims
are, what his arguments are, and and to just get a good understanding of
his position. We can then do the same with Lightner or any other
book taking the opposite side. If we did this with published works,
that will be generating all kinds of thoughts, arguments, and debates among
those who are willing to committ to this! Before ideological guns
get fired off, it is good to see clearly what a person is saying.
This topic is at the heart of the Gospel and the understanding of the Bible
and it should be clear that both sides cannot be correct. Along the
way, such a study would promote better reading skills and habits in all
that participate. That is, there would be many benefits in
doing this. However, I do not think anyone ought to be involved in
this unless they are committed to the authority of Scripture as the final
authority on these matters.
I am prepared to do commentary on Owen and Lightner. I just down
loaded both Owens Death of Death and his Display of Arminianism.
The second work mentioned is a background for his work on the atonement,
"the Death of Death." I would do commentary on Owen for the purposes
of promoting understanding of what I take to be a massive and successful
case for definite atonement and also for the relationship of the accomplished
work of Christ as the basis for the salvation of all people who have been,
are, and willed be saved. I will try to promote understanding and
not argue for the rightness of Owen's position in that commentary.
I will do the same for Lightner. After doing that for both books,
I will be willing to make evaluations. But first, I think it is important
to promote understanding to see how systematic both Reformed and
an Arminian positionsm are. There is a logic to them both.
Best Arminian Biblical Theology is John Miley Systematic Theology.
It is important to bring out the presuppositions of both systems.
It is also important to read the Bible carefully and take into consideration
context in which the Biblcal sentences occur. I will try to illustrate
that point in my little piece on John 3:16 that I hope to post no later
than early Monday AM.
ss
I
am interested in this.
We
need to evaluate whether to do it on fm or a to be created fm subgroup
(like faithstory1 and faithstory2). So, everyone, if you are interested
in doing this, please email me privately @ sshields@...
At
the very least, I hope we can have some good discussion on John 3:16 after
Jon's post.
jon
you mentioned:
Best Arminian Biblical Theology is John
Miley Systematic Theology.
ss
What would you say is the best Calvinistic
Biblical Theology?
Stephen Shields
sshields@...
http://www.faithmaps.org "tools for navigating theology,
leadership, discipleship and
church life in postmodernity"
You can visit the faithmaps Yahoo groups web site to modify your delivery settings and review former messages @
Hi faithmappers, Let me just say up front that I am a believer in the universal atonement of the Lord Jesus. I have practiced Christianity under the Reformed...
Matt wrote: Let me just say up front that I am a believer in the universal atonement of the Lord Jesus. I have practiced Christianity under the Reformed...
Hi, Matt! Would you be open to going through both the Lightner book and the Owen book!?! To just layout the arguments from both and then evaluate those...
Jon wrote: Would you be open to going through both the Lightner book and the Owen book!?! To just layout the arguments from both and then evaluate those ...
All set for what!? A careful discussion of the evidences of what Owen and Lightner's arguments are claiming. An evaluation of these arguments. A careful...
jon wrote: All set for what!? A careful discussion of the evidences of what Owen and Lightner's arguments are claiming. An evaluation of these arguments. A ...
Stephen, This would be pretty awesome! Dan Yes! If we can gather the best online articles with the best arguments on both sides of the issue, we could be in...
Thanks for your interest! How about carefully going through the Owen book chapter by chapter. Most of the chapters are relatively short. I think this is...
jon wrote Thanks for your interest! How about carefully going through the Owen book chapter by chapter. Most of the chapters are relatively short. I think ...
Calvin The Institutes of the Christian Religion! In a class by itself! Here are a few others, none a substitute for the Institutes! In another mode and a...
And please all remember that there is a difference between universal atonement and being a universalist. In universal atonement, God did His part and He did it...
Caroline Wong wrote And please all remember that there is a difference between universal atonement and being a universalist. ss Good distinction I'll never...
... I think that's an important distinction to keep in mind, as well. However... why is it that when the topic of universalism comes up in writing or in speach...
Caroline, Can you descibe this normal jesus idea more for me and what you meant by the comment that is what you get when the preacher is writing his dmin?...
Hi, Caroline! ... I agree that a person who holds to universal atonement is not by that position necessarily holding to universal salvation! I think that is ...
Dear Jon; I believe that's what I'm saying but I reserve the right not to mean what I'm saying. <grin> I think part of postmodernity is that your truth about...
Dear John; The D.Min is a doctorate in ministry. My pastor is an intellectual but lack time and money to pursue a full-time PhD. so he took the D.Min route. ...
jon gold wrote Would you be open to going through both the Lightner book and the Owen book!?! To just layout the arguments from both and then evaluate those ...
Sorry Stephen, but I won't be joining you fine folks on this one. I've already dun been around this tree enough times, in one form or another. I believe...
"I imagine you all will be approaching this with one form of 'logic' or another. That's all fine and well, but I ask you to also approach this prayerfully, ...
Hi Stephen, I'm interested and would even be wiling to post a paper on universal atonement if no else desires to do so. It would be more interesting to me to...
Chris G Criminger
cccriminger@...
Nov 29, 2001 2:49 pm
... From: Chris G Criminger To: faithmaps@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [faithmaps] Extent of the Atonement subgroup ...