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  • Members: 4
  • Category: Theology
  • Founded: May 6, 2001
  • Language: English
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Reply Message #4376 of 45404 |
Re: [faithmaps] Debating the Extent of the Atonment

Calvin The Institutes of the Christian Religion!

In a class by itself!  Here are a few others, none a substitute for the Institutes!

In another mode and a classic of its kind:  Turretin Institutes of Elenctic Theology  3 Volumes in print Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Company.

A. A. Outlines of Theology is also very helpful.

John Gill  The Body of Divinity  and also his "Cause of God and Truth"

John Owen on anything he writes about!

Jonathan Edwards  A Strict Inquiry into the Freedom of the Will

Cunningham Historical Theology  Solid systematic considerations!

R. Reymond  A New Systematic Theology

Almost everything that Arthur Pink wrote!

Blessings!

Jon

Stephen Shields wrote:

 jon wroteThanks for your interest!  How about carefully going through the Owen book chapter by chapter.  Most of the chapters are relatively short.  I think this is important  in order to understand what his claims are, what his arguments are, and and to just get a good understanding of his position.  We can then do the same with Lightner or any other book taking the opposite side.  If we did this with published works, that will be generating all kinds of thoughts, arguments, and debates among those who are willing to committ to this!  Before ideological guns get fired off, it is good to see clearly what a person is saying.  This topic is at the heart of the Gospel and the understanding of the Bible and it should be clear that both sides cannot be correct.  Along the way, such a study would promote better reading skills and habits in all that participate.  That is,  there would be many benefits in doing this.  However, I do not think anyone ought to be involved in this unless they are committed to the authority of Scripture as the final authority on these matters.

I am prepared to do commentary on Owen and Lightner.  I just down loaded both Owens Death of Death and his Display of Arminianism.  The second work mentioned is a background for his work on the atonement, "the Death of Death."  I would do commentary on Owen for the purposes of promoting understanding of what I take to be a massive and successful case for definite atonement and also for the relationship of the accomplished work of Christ as the basis for the salvation of all people who have been, are, and willed be saved.  I will try to promote understanding and not argue for the rightness of Owen's position in that commentary.  I will do the same for Lightner.  After doing that for both books, I will be willing to make evaluations.  But first, I think it is important to promote understanding to see how systematic both  Reformed and an Arminian positionsm are.  There is a logic to them both.  Best Arminian Biblical Theology is John Miley  Systematic Theology. It is important to bring out the presuppositions of both systems.  It is also important to read the Bible carefully and take into consideration context in which the Biblcal sentences occur.  I will try to illustrate that point in my little piece on John 3:16 that I hope to post no later than early Monday AM.

ss

I am interested in this. 

We need to evaluate whether to do it on fm or a to be created fm subgroup (like faithstory1 and faithstory2).  So, everyone, if you are interested in doing this, please email me privately @ sshields@...

At the very least, I hope we can have some good discussion on John 3:16 after Jon's post. 

jon you mentioned:

Best Arminian Biblical Theology is John Miley  Systematic Theology.

ss

What would you say is the best Calvinistic Biblical Theology?Stephen Shields
sshields@...
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Sun Nov 25, 2001 1:56 pm

goldjcalv
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Message #4376 of 45404 |
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Hi faithmappers, Let me just say up front that I am a believer in the universal atonement of the Lord Jesus. I have practiced Christianity under the Reformed...
Matt Oskvarek
mattosk2000 Offline Send Email
Nov 25, 2001
3:10 am

Matt wrote: Let me just say up front that I am a believer in the universal atonement of the Lord Jesus. I have practiced Christianity under the Reformed...
Stephen Shields
snshields Offline Send Email
Nov 25, 2001
4:08 am

Hi, Matt! Would you be open to going through both the Lightner book and the Owen book!?! To just layout the arguments from both and then evaluate those...
Jonathan M Gold
goldjcalv Offline Send Email
Nov 25, 2001
9:05 am

Jon wrote: Would you be open to going through both the Lightner book and the Owen book!?! To just layout the arguments from both and then evaluate those ...
Stephen Shields
snshields Offline Send Email
Nov 25, 2001
12:46 pm

All set for what!? A careful discussion of the evidences of what Owen and Lightner's arguments are claiming. An evaluation of these arguments. A careful...
Jonathan M Gold
goldjcalv Offline Send Email
Nov 25, 2001
9:26 am

jon wrote: All set for what!? A careful discussion of the evidences of what Owen and Lightner's arguments are claiming. An evaluation of these arguments. A ...
Stephen Shields
snshields Offline Send Email
Nov 25, 2001
1:09 pm

I agree ! See my reply to your first post this morning! ... ADVERTISEMENT...
Jonathan M Gold
goldjcalv Offline Send Email
Nov 25, 2001
1:25 pm

Stephen, This would be pretty awesome! Dan Yes! If we can gather the best online articles with the best arguments on both sides of the issue, we could be in...
Dan Brennan
vtrezdjb Offline Send Email
Nov 26, 2001
6:08 am

Thanks for your interest! How about carefully going through the Owen book chapter by chapter. Most of the chapters are relatively short. I think this is...
Jonathan M Gold
goldjcalv Offline Send Email
Nov 25, 2001
1:05 pm

jon wrote Thanks for your interest! How about carefully going through the Owen book chapter by chapter. Most of the chapters are relatively short. I think ...
Stephen Shields
snshields Offline Send Email
Nov 25, 2001
1:28 pm

Calvin The Institutes of the Christian Religion! In a class by itself! Here are a few others, none a substitute for the Institutes! In another mode and a...
Jonathan M Gold
goldjcalv Offline Send Email
Nov 25, 2001
1:51 pm

And please all remember that there is a difference between universal atonement and being a universalist. In universal atonement, God did His part and He did it...
Caroline Wong
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Nov 25, 2001
1:26 pm

Caroline Wong wrote And please all remember that there is a difference between universal atonement and being a universalist. ss Good distinction I'll never...
Stephen Shields
snshields Offline Send Email
Nov 25, 2001
1:30 pm

... I think that's an important distinction to keep in mind, as well. However... why is it that when the topic of universalism comes up in writing or in speach...
Rick Seelhoff
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Nov 25, 2001
10:05 pm

Caroline, Can you descibe this normal jesus idea more for me and what you meant by the comment that is what you get when the preacher is writing his dmin?...
jwallis@...
folower2001 Offline Send Email
Nov 26, 2001
1:23 pm

Hi, Caroline! ... I agree that a person who holds to universal atonement is not by that position necessarily holding to universal salvation! I think that is ...
Jonathan M Gold
goldjcalv Offline Send Email
Nov 25, 2001
1:39 pm

Dear Jon; I believe that's what I'm saying but I reserve the right not to mean what I'm saying. <grin> I think part of postmodernity is that your truth about...
Caroline Wong
caroline1706 Offline Send Email
Nov 25, 2001
2:03 pm

Hi, Caroline! I am again mystified by your comments! My responses begin with [J and end with ]...
Jonathan M Gold
goldjcalv Offline Send Email
Nov 25, 2001
2:25 pm

Dear John; The D.Min is a doctorate in ministry. My pastor is an intellectual but lack time and money to pursue a full-time PhD. so he took the D.Min route. ...
Caroline Wong
caroline1706 Offline Send Email
Nov 26, 2001
1:51 pm

... From: Stephen Shields To: faithmaps@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2001 12:46 PM Subject: RE: [faithmaps] Universal Atonement Dear Stephen, Has...
Lorna Forrester
charis2000uk... Online Now Send Email
Nov 27, 2001
12:21 pm

jon gold wrote Would you be open to going through both the Lightner book and the Owen book!?! To just layout the arguments from both and then evaluate those ...
Stephen Shields
snshields Offline Send Email
Nov 28, 2001
3:03 am

Sorry Stephen, but I won't be joining you fine folks on this one. I've already dun been around this tree enough times, in one form or another. I believe...
Matt Oskvarek
mattosk2000 Offline Send Email
Nov 28, 2001
3:24 am

"I imagine you all will be approaching this with one form of 'logic' or another. That's all fine and well, but I ask you to also approach this prayerfully, ...
Stephen Shields
snshields Offline Send Email
Nov 28, 2001
3:57 am

Hi Stephen, I'm interested and would even be wiling to post a paper on universal atonement if no else desires to do so. It would be more interesting to me to...
Chris G Criminger
cccriminger@... Send Email
Nov 29, 2001
2:49 pm

... From: Chris G Criminger To: faithmaps@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [faithmaps] Extent of the Atonement subgroup ...
Lorna Forrester
charis2000uk... Online Now Send Email
Nov 29, 2001
3:05 pm

I will work through these materials with even just one person, if he or she wants to...the more the merrier!!!!!!! Blessings, Jon ... ADVERTISEMENT...
Jonathan M Gold
goldjcalv Offline Send Email
Nov 27, 2001
12:45 pm

Jon, I am interested if I can find the time and keep up. Todd Olthoff ... From: Jonathan M Gold [mailto:goldj@...] Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001...
Olthoff, Todd
tolthoff1 Offline Send Email
Nov 27, 2001
4:04 pm
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