Why not just have a Skype conference call?







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

One way we could have online meetings is to use the (somewhat olde-fashioned)
technology IRC.

Second Life in principle provides a much richer experience, but that seems to
involve a greater overhead to set it up.

I have very little experience personally about IRC.

http://www.acceleratingfuture.com/wiki/Transhumanist_IRC_Chatroom explains that
there's a #transhumanism IRC channel available on the freenode server.

I used the Firefox addon "ChatZilla" just now to connect to that channel, but
(not very surprisingly) I find there's no-one else there.

Does anyone have any experience or recommendations regarding this IRC channel,
or any other which we might want to use (or create) for occasional joint online
discussion?

// David W.

There have been several other responses to the survey in the last few days.

I've updated the summary slideset, which is now available at
http://www.slideshare.net/ukhplus/2009-survey-interim-v2

The responses which are new since last time can be easily identified, as they're
in blue text.

This time, I've also added a slide (#5 in the set) entitled "Suggested five key
projects for 2010"

// David W.

--- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, "David Wood" wrote:
>
> Many thanks to everyone who has submitted answers so far
>
> A lightly edited set of the responses can now be viewed online:
>
> http://www.slideshare.net/ukhplus/2009-survey-interim-v1
>
> The feedback – both positive and negative – is useful, constructive, and
thought-provoking.
>
> The hard thing to do will be to identify, out of all this feedback, the small
number of changes that we can undertake which will have the biggest support
and/or the biggest impact.
>
> That will be a topic for discussion at Saturday's Planning meeting:
> http://extrobritannia.blogspot.com/2009/12/\
> extrobritannia-way-ahead-venue-room-538.html
>
> The survey remains open.  Anyone who hasn't submitted answers already is
welcome to do so over the next few days.
>
> --- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, "David Wood" wrote:
> >
> > All,
> >
> > Everyone interested in the future of Extrobritannia (UKH+) meetings is
invited to click on the following link:
> >
> > http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB229Z3JCFYZJ
> >
> > The goal of this survey is to obtain feedback about how to evolve and
improve Extrobritannia activities during 2010.
> >
> > All questions are free-text response.
> >
> > Answer as many or as few of the questions as you wish.
> >
> > There are 11 questions in total, spread over 6 pages.
> >
> > Your answers will be anonymous (unless you write your name into one of the
answers).
> >
> > Answers submitted by Friday 18th December will be included in the report
presented to the Extrobritannia planning meeting on 19th December.
> >
> > In case of any problem with this survey, please notify David Wood.
> >
>

Yay!

I love pomegranates, but eating one is such a faff.

Fortunately, it makes lovely wine (which also contains resveratrol).

http://www.casadefruta.com/pomegranate-wine.aspx
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17651077

Ben Zaiboc

--- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, estropico <estropico@...> wrote:
>
> I know it might sounds more Good Housekeeping than ExtroBritannia, but
> pomegranate is a true superfood (see
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomegranate esp. the sections Nutrients
> and phytochemicals, Potential health benefits, Clinical trial
> rationale and activity) and therefore should be on every
> life-extensionist's shopping list. The problem is that it can be
> rather expensive, but right now it's in season (until February) and
> about 50% cheaper than in the rest of the year. And I've just
> discovered that it freezes just fine, but don't freeze it whole or
> it'll go all soggy - you'll have to separate all the seeds and put
> them in a freezer bag.
> Cheers,
> Fabio
>

The New York Times Magazine is covering life extension and has a side focus
on relationships between partners where one is committed to life extension
and the other is opposed to it.   If you would be willing to be interviewed
about this, please let me know so I can introduce you to the journalist.

Many thanks,

Natasha

Nlogo1.tif  <http://www.natasha.cc/> Natasha Vita-More




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I know it might sounds more Good Housekeeping than ExtroBritannia, but
pomegranate is a true superfood (see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomegranate esp. the sections Nutrients
and phytochemicals, Potential health benefits, Clinical trial
rationale and activity) and therefore should be on every
life-extensionist's shopping list. The problem is that it can be
rather expensive, but right now it's in season (until February) and
about 50% cheaper than in the rest of the year. And I've just
discovered that it freezes just fine, but don't freeze it whole or
it'll go all soggy - you'll have to separate all the seeds and put
them in a freezer bag.
Cheers,
Fabio

He has an engagement earlier that day, and the next day. I'll find out if he can
meet earlier or stay later, that was a general guideline-so he may be more
flexible, luckily there is time to plan. I'll update when he knows more about
his schedule.
  Health, Happiness, Wisdom & Longevity :-) -- best wishes from  --Shannon Vyff
--  Alcor Area Readiness Team Coordinator, Venturist Director, ImmInst Chair and
Methuselah Foundation 300 member, An author of "The Scientific Conquest of
Death":
http://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Conquest-Death-Immortality-Institute/dp/9875611\
352, Author of the children's transhumanist adventure book "21st Century Kids":
http://www.amazon.com/21st-Century-Kids-Middle_english-Shannon/dp/1886057001


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: hartlyuk
> To: extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 5:47 PM
> Subject: [ExtroBritannia] O.T. Origin of Kingship/Kingdoms.
>
>
>
> Is there any authoritative theory about how Kingship started.?.
>
> My uninformed theory is that the most charismatically pschopathically
> violent man got to be the leader of any hunter-gather group.

I suggest you read Jared Diamond's Guns Germs and Steel, in particular chapter
XIV (From equality to cleptocracy).
In short, hunter-gatherer groups tended to have relatively non-hierarchical,
egalitarian social structures. Cooperation above the nuclear family level, and
the need to achieve an equitable division of meat resulting from hunting large
games, implied the birth of social controls in order to throw off the yoke of
alpha male, who previously had priority over food (and female mate selection).
Then, following the "Neolithic revolution" (the transition from
hunting-gathering bands to agriculture and settlement) and the consequent
increase in social complexity, a "cleptocratic" elite emerged (kings, nobles,
priest, bureaucrats, etc.), wich obviously has some worthiness, but at the same
time started to distort social controls in order to (also) present again the old
alpha male strategies. By the way, this fact can explain the perceived
ambivalence of social controls, depending of the two (apparently) opposite
sociological perspectives: consensus and conflict.

Cheers,
Giancarlo

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alternatively, having an hereditary succession meant less chance of a civil
war every few years when the old ruler died.

Dirk

2009/12/15 hartlyuk <hartlyuk@...>

>
>
> Is there any authoritative theory about how Kingship started.?.
>
> My uninformed theory is that the most charismatically pschopathically
> violent man got to be the leader of any hunter-gather group.
> He was protected from being killed by other members of the group while he
> slept, by his siblings,uncles/aunts and cousins,who took it in turns to
> guard him while he slept.
> One of these family members took over leadership(dictatorship) of the group
> when he died or became too weak in body and charisma to resist them.
>
>
>



--
Homepage: www.neopax.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Marc.

I was going to do the same, but thought it was a bad idea, because I don't know
how to write legal language.

Not afraid of French, but quite rusty!

On a besoin de prendre Google Translate avec une pincée de sel (does that idiom
mean the same in French as in English?)

I wouldn't use the term "conscious beings" (êtres conscients), but "sentient
beings", because sentience is what distinguishes us (and *possibly* one or two
other creatures, like maybe dolphins) from many other animals that are
undoubtedly conscious, but not capable of the kind of abstract thought that
humans are (e.g. all mammals are conscious, but hardly any of them are sentient.
Maybe just one.)

I'd agree that article 16, re marriage, needs review, at the very least.  In
fact, I'd argue that the matter of marriage has no place in a declaration of
universal rights.  This should be abstracted to a  higher level, such as
'freedom of association' or something similar.

Anyway, if this is selected as a UKTA project, we can go into detail later.

Ben Zaiboc



--- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, "Roux" <marcroux@...> wrote:
>
> I've tryed to play that game last year, for the sixtieth birthday of the
> Declaration.
> That was a first result :
>
> http://technoprog-fr.blogspot.com/2008/12/pour-une-dclaration-universell\
> e-des.html
> <http://technoprog-fr.blogspot.com/2008/12/pour-une-dclaration-universel\
> le-des.html>
>
> Are you affraid by french ?-) Try with Google Translate !
>
> Marc
>
>
> --- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, "bbenzai" <benboc@> wrote:
> >
> > I have another suggestion for a possible UKTA project.
> >
> > The declaration of human rights (http://tinyurl.com/7hyccf) sets out
> the basic human rights used as the basis for things like the UN charter
> on human rights, and is regarded as part of customary international law.
> I thought it might be a good idea to try to adapt this for a world that
> could contain non-human and posthuman intelligences.
> >
> > Of course, this would have to be done properly, using appropriate
> legalese. Any laywers here?
> >
> > Ben Zaiboc
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Is there any authoritative theory about how Kingship started.?.

My uninformed theory is that the most charismatically pschopathically violent
man got to be the leader of any hunter-gather group.
He was protected from being killed by other members of the group while he slept,
by his siblings,uncles/aunts and cousins,who took it in turns to guard him while
he slept.
One of these family members took over leadership(dictatorship) of the group when
he died or became too weak in body and charisma to resist them.

I thought GSK had completed the Human trials for the Sirtis products?
Or maybe its just the results that will be published next year?

Dirk

2009/12/15 alistair tweed <tumble23_2000@...>

>
>
> http://www.physorg.com/news180036887.html
>
> I found this quite encouraging - both that their are more positive studies
> coming out and that GSK have human trials with a view to a product in the
> pipeline.
>
> Warm regards,
>
> Alistair
>
> http://aging-management.com/ - Optimising Health for Longevity
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
Homepage: www.neopax.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've tryed to play that game last year, for the sixtieth birthday of the
Declaration.
That was a first result :

http://technoprog-fr.blogspot.com/2008/12/pour-une-dclaration-universell\
e-des.html
<http://technoprog-fr.blogspot.com/2008/12/pour-une-dclaration-universel\
le-des.html>

Are you affraid by french ?-) Try with Google Translate !

Marc


--- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, "bbenzai" <benboc@...> wrote:
>
> I have another suggestion for a possible UKTA project.
>
> The declaration of human rights (http://tinyurl.com/7hyccf) sets out
the basic human rights used as the basis for things like the UN charter
on human rights, and is regarded as part of customary international law.
I thought it might be a good idea to try to adapt this for a world that
could contain non-human and posthuman intelligences.
>
> Of course, this would have to be done properly, using appropriate
legalese. Any laywers here?
>
> Ben Zaiboc
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Will that still work for you if you are uploaded?

Will it prevent the enslavement or abuse of a self-aware AI or uplifted chimp?

Will it even work if you retain a biological body, but change it so much that it
can be justifiably argued that you are no longer human?

Would it apply to cyborgs?

To Haimen?

Ben Zaiboc

--- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, ChstnPhil <ChstnPhil@...> wrote:
>
> I would prefer to rely on my antient liberties as defined in my customary
> law, the common law
>
> On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:11 AM, bbenzai <benboc@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I have another suggestion for a possible UKTA project.
> >
> > The declaration of human rights (http://tinyurl.com/7hyccf) sets out the
> > basic human rights used as the basis for things like the UN charter on human
> > rights, and is regarded as part of customary international law. I thought it
> > might be a good idea to try to adapt this for a world that could contain
> > non-human and posthuman intelligences.
> >
> > Of course, this would have to be done properly, using appropriate legalese.
> > Any laywers here?
> >
> > Ben Zaiboc
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I would prefer to rely on my antient liberties as defined in my customary
law, the common law

On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:11 AM, bbenzai <benboc@...> wrote:

>
>
> I have another suggestion for a possible UKTA project.
>
> The declaration of human rights (http://tinyurl.com/7hyccf) sets out the
> basic human rights used as the basis for things like the UN charter on human
> rights, and is regarded as part of customary international law. I thought it
> might be a good idea to try to adapt this for a world that could contain
> non-human and posthuman intelligences.
>
> Of course, this would have to be done properly, using appropriate legalese.
> Any laywers here?
>
> Ben Zaiboc
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ben

Generating an amendment to the UDHR to ensure rights to bodily autonomy,
cognitive liberty, reproductive rights and access to safe enabling technologies
has been a project I have pushed for WTA/H+ since 2002.

Back in 2003 we started a (now defunct) wta-law list to try to develop that
project and the larger H+ legal agenda. There are a number of attorneys and law
scholars interested in this kind of activism around the world that I could put
the UKTA in touch with.

There are two strategic reasons to focus on this. The first is that as a global
movement we should focus on prefigurative global legislation which models for
national legislation.

Second, there is a slow-burning push by bioconservative organizations to push
their own international treaty to ban all "humanity-modifying" genetic
technologies:

Protecting the Endangered Human: Toward an International Treaty Prohibiting
Cloning and Inheritable Alterations
By Rosario Isasi, George B. Annas, Lori Andrews
http://www.genetics-and-society.org/resources/items/2002_ajlm_annasetal.pdf

It would be very nice to have our own international treaty language which
enshrines our values.

The IEET's "rights of the person" conferences in Stanford (2006) and at the UN
(2007) were efforts to pull together this project. One of the key papers out of
the 2006 meeting was:

Enhancing Human Rights: How the Use of Human Rights Treaties to Prohibit Genetic
Engineering Weakens Human Rights by Martin Gunderson
http://jetpress.org/v18/gunderson1.htm

------------------------
James Hughes Ph.D.
Secretary, Humanity+
http://humanityplus.org
Williams 229B, Trinity College
300 Summit St., Hartford CT 06106
(office) 860-297-2376
director@...

http://www.physorg.com/news180036887.html
 
I found this quite encouraging - both that their are more positive studies
coming out and that GSK have human trials with a view to a product in the
pipeline.
 
Warm regards,
 
Alistair

http://aging-management.com/ - Optimising Health for Longevity




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Firstly, I think its great that Ben Best will be there as a speaker as he is
probably the person who would be handling my journey into cryonic stasis if
I should de-animate anytime soon and I'm really looking forward to this
talk.

Secondly, I think having a weekday meeting is not a bad idea, and Friday is
a good day, but 6pm is going to make it difficult for many. I, however,
should be able to make it and I agree with Ben Zaiboc that if Ben Best has a
cut-off it is better to start early and have some stragglers.

Finally, do you think Ben Best be interested in an earlier get-together
grabbing a meal in a nearby pub or something with anyone who could make it?
I would certainly take half a day off for that.



On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 9:15 AM, bbenzai <benboc@...> wrote:

>
>
> Oh, fair enough.
>
> Better to have a full 2 hours and some people turn up late than cut the
> total time short.
>
>
> Ben Zaiboc
>
> --- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com <extrobritannia%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "David Wood" <davidw@...> wrote:
> >
> > The 6pm start time was driven by the fact that Ben has an 8pm cut-off
> time.
> >
> > However, I can check again whether there's any way we can find some
> leeway.
> >
> > // David W.
> >
> > --- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com <extrobritannia%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "bbenzai" <benboc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hm. Ok, good to experiment, and try different locations and times.
> > >
> > > I'd venture to say that 6 p.m. may be a little too early for a weekday
> though. I'd be willing to sacrifice one friday night to attend this, but
> doubt if i'd physically be able to make it for 6, as I'd need a minimum of
> an hour to get to central London after I finish work at 5:30. 7 would be
> possible, but 6?... not really, without taking a half-day off work.
> > >
> > > I don't know if my situation is typical, though.
> > >
> > > Ben Zaiboc
> > >
> > > --- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com<extrobritannia%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "David Wood" <davidw@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Many thanks go to Shannon Vyff for reaching out to Ben Best,
> President of the Cryonics Institute, in connection with a visit Ben is
> making to the UK in July.
> > > >
> > > > Ben has kindly agreed to speak as follows to an Extrobritannia
> meeting on the evening of Friday 23rd July:
> > > >
> > > > >>>
> > > >
> > > > Ben Best, President of Cryonics Institute since 2003, will be giving
> a presentation July 23rd 2010 on the history and value of cryonics along
> with an overview of cryonics technical procedures and their scientific
> justification. The problems of improving cryonics care for those living
> outside the United States (and in the United Kingdom particularly) will also
> be covered.
> > > >
> > > > Please review the cryonics FAQ written
> > > > by Ben Best http://www.benbest.com/cryonics/CryoFAQ.html
> > > > Cryonics Institute Site: http://www.cryonics.org/
> > > > Ben Best's Background: http://www.cryonics.org/bio.html#Ben_Best
> > > > Ben Best's Personal Web Site: http://www.benbest.com/
> > > >
> > > > <<<
> > > >
> > > > Timing is likely to be 6pm-8pm.
> > > > The venue will be announced closer to the time.
> > > > It will be somewhere in Central London (*)
> > > >
> > > > Keen readers will notice that this meeting breaks new ground:
> > > >
> > > > 1.) Because it's happening on a Friday evening, rather than a
> Saturday afternoon. No doubt this will inconvenience some potential
> attendees but will benefit others. Let's experiment!
> > > >
> > > > 2.) It has been arranged more than SEVEN MONTHS in advance. There
> will be more reminders nearer the time, but please make a note in your
> calendars now.
> > > >
> > > > // David W.
> > > >
> > > > (*) In recognition of the survey feedback that Extrobritannia
> meetings have been too London-centric, one topic to be discussed this
> Saturday (at the Extrobritannia Planning and Review meeting) will be a
> proposal for at least some meetings to be held in other locations.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have another suggestion for a possible UKTA project.

The declaration of human rights (http://tinyurl.com/7hyccf) sets out the basic
human rights used as the basis for things like the UN charter on human rights,
and is regarded as part of customary international law.  I thought it might be a
good idea to try to adapt this for a world that could contain non-human and
posthuman intelligences.

Of course, this would have to be done properly, using appropriate legalese. Any
laywers here?

Ben Zaiboc

Oh, fair enough.

Better to have a full 2 hours and some people turn up late than cut the total
time short.

Ben Zaiboc

--- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, "David Wood" <davidw@...> wrote:
>
> The 6pm start time was driven by the fact that Ben has an 8pm cut-off time.
>
> However, I can check again whether there's any way we can find some leeway.
>
> // David W.
>
> --- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, "bbenzai" <benboc@> wrote:
> >
> > Hm.  Ok, good to experiment, and try different locations and times.
> >
> > I'd venture to say that 6 p.m. may be a little too early for a weekday
though.  I'd be willing to sacrifice one friday night to attend this, but doubt
if i'd physically be able to make it for 6, as I'd need a minimum of an hour to
get to central London after I finish work at 5:30.  7 would be possible, but
6?... not really, without taking a half-day off work.
> >
> > I don't know if my situation is typical, though.
> >
> > Ben Zaiboc
> >
> > --- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, "David Wood" <davidw@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Many thanks go to Shannon Vyff for reaching out to Ben Best, President of
the Cryonics Institute, in connection with a visit Ben is making to the UK in
July.
> > >
> > > Ben has kindly agreed to speak as follows to an Extrobritannia meeting on
the evening of Friday 23rd July:
> > >
> > > >>>
> > >
> > > Ben Best, President of Cryonics Institute since 2003, will be giving a
presentation July 23rd 2010 on the history and value of cryonics along with an
overview of cryonics technical procedures and their scientific justification.
The problems of improving cryonics care for those living outside the United
States (and in the United Kingdom particularly) will also be covered.
> > >
> > > Please review the cryonics FAQ written
> > > by Ben Best http://www.benbest.com/cryonics/CryoFAQ.html
> > > Cryonics Institute Site: http://www.cryonics.org/
> > > Ben Best's Background: http://www.cryonics.org/bio.html#Ben_Best
> > > Ben Best's Personal Web Site: http://www.benbest.com/
> > >
> > > <<<
> > >
> > > Timing is likely to be 6pm-8pm.
> > > The venue will be announced closer to the time.
> > > It will be somewhere in Central London (*)
> > >
> > > Keen readers will notice that this meeting breaks new ground:
> > >
> > > 1.) Because it's happening on a Friday evening, rather than a Saturday
afternoon.  No doubt this will inconvenience some potential attendees but will
benefit others.  Let's experiment!
> > >
> > > 2.) It has been arranged more than SEVEN MONTHS in advance.  There will be
more reminders nearer the time, but please make a note in your calendars now.
> > >
> > > // David W.
> > >
> > > (*) In recognition of the survey feedback that Extrobritannia meetings
have been too London-centric, one topic to be discussed this Saturday (at the
Extrobritannia Planning and Review meeting) will be a proposal for at least some
meetings to be held in other locations.
> > >
> >
>

The 6pm start time was driven by the fact that Ben has an 8pm cut-off time.

However, I can check again whether there's any way we can find some leeway.

// David W.

--- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, "bbenzai" <benboc@...> wrote:
>
> Hm.  Ok, good to experiment, and try different locations and times.
>
> I'd venture to say that 6 p.m. may be a little too early for a weekday though.
I'd be willing to sacrifice one friday night to attend this, but doubt if i'd
physically be able to make it for 6, as I'd need a minimum of an hour to get to
central London after I finish work at 5:30.  7 would be possible, but 6?... not
really, without taking a half-day off work.
>
> I don't know if my situation is typical, though.
>
> Ben Zaiboc
>
> --- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, "David Wood" <davidw@> wrote:
> >
> > Many thanks go to Shannon Vyff for reaching out to Ben Best, President of
the Cryonics Institute, in connection with a visit Ben is making to the UK in
July.
> >
> > Ben has kindly agreed to speak as follows to an Extrobritannia meeting on
the evening of Friday 23rd July:
> >
> > >>>
> >
> > Ben Best, President of Cryonics Institute since 2003, will be giving a
presentation July 23rd 2010 on the history and value of cryonics along with an
overview of cryonics technical procedures and their scientific justification.
The problems of improving cryonics care for those living outside the United
States (and in the United Kingdom particularly) will also be covered.
> >
> > Please review the cryonics FAQ written
> > by Ben Best http://www.benbest.com/cryonics/CryoFAQ.html
> > Cryonics Institute Site: http://www.cryonics.org/
> > Ben Best's Background: http://www.cryonics.org/bio.html#Ben_Best
> > Ben Best's Personal Web Site: http://www.benbest.com/
> >
> > <<<
> >
> > Timing is likely to be 6pm-8pm.
> > The venue will be announced closer to the time.
> > It will be somewhere in Central London (*)
> >
> > Keen readers will notice that this meeting breaks new ground:
> >
> > 1.) Because it's happening on a Friday evening, rather than a Saturday
afternoon.  No doubt this will inconvenience some potential attendees but will
benefit others.  Let's experiment!
> >
> > 2.) It has been arranged more than SEVEN MONTHS in advance.  There will be
more reminders nearer the time, but please make a note in your calendars now.
> >
> > // David W.
> >
> > (*) In recognition of the survey feedback that Extrobritannia meetings have
been too London-centric, one topic to be discussed this Saturday (at the
Extrobritannia Planning and Review meeting) will be a proposal for at least some
meetings to be held in other locations.
> >
>

He's a fan of the future and future tech, as seen from the 1960s.
21st century futures are scary.

Dirk

2009/12/14 bbenzai <benboc@...>

>
>
> > Jaron Lanier, philosopher, digital guru and architect of Virtual Reality,
> is worried.
>
> Ha, nothing new there, then :>
>
> I find Jaron Lanier's stuff rather difficult to read. He seems to be partly
> in another reality, and while he gives a good impression of knowing what
> he's talking about, there's always a twist in his thinking that makes me
> wonder. He knows what transhumanism is, but he doesn't *quite* grok it, it
> seems to me. His "One half of a Manifesto" pretty much sums it up.
>
> I'm not trying to put people off him, and it might be interesting to see
> what his ideas are of "richer, more productive ways in which technology
> might interact with our culture", but I wouldn't regard him as a
> transhumanist, his worldview seems too fixed and retrograde (and worried).
> Yet you can't quite call him a luddite either.
>
> If anyone here does go to this event, please let us know what you thought
> of it, and if you got any insights or new ideas.
>
> Ben Zaiboc
>
>
> --- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com <extrobritannia%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "David Wood" <davidw@...> wrote:
> >
> > From http://www.thersa.org/events/our-events/you-are-not-a-gadget
> >
> > "You Are Not A Gadget"
> >
> > Jaron Lanier, philosopher, digital guru and architect of Virtual Reality,
> is worried.
> >
> > Individual creativity has begun to go out of fashion. Machines,
> specifically computers, are no longer just tools to be used by the human
> mind - these days, we treat them as if they are altogether better than
> humans.
> >
> > Join Jaron Lanier as he delivers a call to arms against digital
> collectivism and proposes richer, more productive ways in which technology
> might interact with our culture.
> >
> > Mon 1st Feb 2010, 18:00-19.15
> >
>
>
>



--
Homepage: www.neopax.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hm.  Ok, good to experiment, and try different locations and times.

I'd venture to say that 6 p.m. may be a little too early for a weekday though. 
I'd be willing to sacrifice one friday night to attend this, but doubt if i'd
physically be able to make it for 6, as I'd need a minimum of an hour to get to
central London after I finish work at 5:30.  7 would be possible, but 6?... not
really, without taking a half-day off work.

I don't know if my situation is typical, though.

Ben Zaiboc

--- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, "David Wood" <davidw@...> wrote:
>
> Many thanks go to Shannon Vyff for reaching out to Ben Best, President of the
Cryonics Institute, in connection with a visit Ben is making to the UK in July.
>
> Ben has kindly agreed to speak as follows to an Extrobritannia meeting on the
evening of Friday 23rd July:
>
> >>>
>
> Ben Best, President of Cryonics Institute since 2003, will be giving a
presentation July 23rd 2010 on the history and value of cryonics along with an
overview of cryonics technical procedures and their scientific justification.
The problems of improving cryonics care for those living outside the United
States (and in the United Kingdom particularly) will also be covered.
>
> Please review the cryonics FAQ written
> by Ben Best http://www.benbest.com/cryonics/CryoFAQ.html
> Cryonics Institute Site: http://www.cryonics.org/
> Ben Best's Background: http://www.cryonics.org/bio.html#Ben_Best
> Ben Best's Personal Web Site: http://www.benbest.com/
>
> <<<
>
> Timing is likely to be 6pm-8pm.
> The venue will be announced closer to the time.
> It will be somewhere in Central London (*)
>
> Keen readers will notice that this meeting breaks new ground:
>
> 1.) Because it's happening on a Friday evening, rather than a Saturday
afternoon.  No doubt this will inconvenience some potential attendees but will
benefit others.  Let's experiment!
>
> 2.) It has been arranged more than SEVEN MONTHS in advance.  There will be
more reminders nearer the time, but please make a note in your calendars now.
>
> // David W.
>
> (*) In recognition of the survey feedback that Extrobritannia meetings have
been too London-centric, one topic to be discussed this Saturday (at the
Extrobritannia Planning and Review meeting) will be a proposal for at least some
meetings to be held in other locations.
>

Many thanks go to Shannon Vyff for reaching out to Ben Best, President of the
Cryonics Institute, in connection with a visit Ben is making to the UK in July.

Ben has kindly agreed to speak as follows to an Extrobritannia meeting on the
evening of Friday 23rd July:

>>>

Ben Best, President of Cryonics Institute since 2003, will be giving a
presentation July 23rd 2010 on the history and value of cryonics along with an
overview of cryonics technical procedures and their scientific justification.
The problems of improving cryonics care for those living outside the United
States (and in the United Kingdom particularly) will also be covered.

Please review the cryonics FAQ written
by Ben Best http://www.benbest.com/cryonics/CryoFAQ.html
Cryonics Institute Site: http://www.cryonics.org/
Ben Best's Background: http://www.cryonics.org/bio.html#Ben_Best
Ben Best's Personal Web Site: http://www.benbest.com/

<<<

Timing is likely to be 6pm-8pm.
The venue will be announced closer to the time.
It will be somewhere in Central London (*)

Keen readers will notice that this meeting breaks new ground:

1.) Because it's happening on a Friday evening, rather than a Saturday
afternoon.  No doubt this will inconvenience some potential attendees but will
benefit others.  Let's experiment!

2.) It has been arranged more than SEVEN MONTHS in advance.  There will be more
reminders nearer the time, but please make a note in your calendars now.

// David W.

(*) In recognition of the survey feedback that Extrobritannia meetings have been
too London-centric, one topic to be discussed this Saturday (at the
Extrobritannia Planning and Review meeting) will be a proposal for at least some
meetings to be held in other locations.

Hi Amon,

Apols for misnaming you - I didn't notice till a long time afterwards! I just
had Anders name on my mind whilst the conceptual stuff was flowing.

My skillset is in global change and organisational behaviour (extrapolated to
planetary level), but I took early retirement after hitting the exec-burnout
threshold. David and I had an immediate rapport when we met recently, and he's
doing a sterling job.

Thinking about what the future history of the group might be if we were loooking
back in 10-15y time, I don't think we'd be that happy if we hadn't evolved a bit
by then.

So I ask myself 'what would we need on our collective "c.v." in order to be
doing an effective job by then?' and:

'how well prepared/positioned are we to respond to or pre-empt the toxic
messages of a large conservative-interest group when some big news breaks?'

'how well do we know the thinking and methods of such groups relating to the
likely topic areas we would seek to promote/defend?'

'what will our credentials be by then and will our voice resonate louder because
ordinary people know who we are?'

'how well-known and admired are we, exactly, and does that match our needs?'

'etc'

On the "internal vision" side I ask myself:

'In 10-15y, would we be in a position to re-name ourselves or maybe to operate
as a separate faculty something like an institute - offering fellowships,
research fellowships, partnering with a university to sponsor a Master's in
Transhumanism, say'

Many things are possible, given the fine set of minds that are our primary
resource, but they will not happen unless we create the structure and will to
challenge and stretch ourselves a little more.

I'll be there on the 19th to contribute what I can.

Best wishes, Steve.


--- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, Amon Zero <amon@...> wrote:
>
> 2009/12/3 sp23264 sp23264@...
> >
> >   Hi Anders,
> >
> > I have long held transhumanist sentiments, but did not know there was a
> > word for my interest – or that there was any sort of advocacy group for it –
> > until I stumbled over an article on the BBC Technology page
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8194854.stm
> >
>
>
> Hi Steve (that's right isn't it? I think I've been conversing with two
> different Steves here over the last few days. A tiny bit confusing).
>
> As much as I'd be more than happy to be confused with Anders, I think that'd
> be down to the same first initial rather than anything else... my name is
> Amon. In fact, I'm the same Amon mentioned in the BBC article you mention,
> so it's very nice to chat with you sir!
>
> (I partly mention the name thing so as not to drag the good Dr Sandberg's
> name through the mud...   ;-)
>
>
> >   So! After 5y of formative activity, is the time approaching when the
> > group needs to do more to expedite information flow...
> > 2. A reality check on our Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats.
> >
>
> Ah, OK, I see the kind of thing you're getting at. Yes, makes perfect sense
> at this stage of the game, I think. Although no-one has conducted an
> explicit SWOT analysis of UKTA/ExtroBritannia to my knowledge, David Wood
> has been doing an exemplary job of expanding the discussion group, its
> activities and reach lately. Similar extensions which David has in mind, and
> the one-day conference we will be running in April 2010, will hopefully be a
> step in the right direction.
>
> All the Best,
> Amon
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

> Jaron Lanier, philosopher, digital guru and architect of Virtual Reality, is
worried.

Ha, nothing new there, then :>

I find Jaron Lanier's stuff rather difficult to read.  He seems to be partly in
another reality, and while he gives a good impression of knowing what he's
talking about, there's always a twist in his thinking that makes me wonder.  He
knows what transhumanism is, but he doesn't *quite* grok it, it seems to me. 
His "One half of a Manifesto" pretty much sums it up.

I'm not trying to put people off him, and it might be interesting to see what
his ideas are of "richer, more productive ways in which technology might
interact with our culture", but I wouldn't regard him as a transhumanist, his
worldview seems too fixed and retrograde (and worried).  Yet you can't quite
call him a luddite either.

If anyone here does go to this event, please let us know what you thought of it,
and if you got any insights or new ideas.

Ben Zaiboc


--- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, "David Wood" <davidw@...> wrote:
>
> From http://www.thersa.org/events/our-events/you-are-not-a-gadget
>
> "You Are Not A Gadget"
>
> Jaron Lanier, philosopher, digital guru and architect of Virtual Reality, is
worried.
>
> Individual creativity has begun to go out of fashion. Machines, specifically
computers, are no longer just tools to be used by the human mind - these days,
we treat them as if they are altogether better than humans.
>
> Join Jaron Lanier as he delivers a call to arms against digital collectivism
and proposes richer, more productive ways in which technology might interact
with our culture.
>
> Mon 1st Feb 2010, 18:00-19.15
>

"Get a free SlideShare account & we'll email you the download"

:<

Blackmail!

Dirk Bruere <dirk.bruere@...> wrote:
>
> But a simple screen capture followed by OCR should do the trick!

Bleh.

Isn't technology supposed to make life easier, not harder?

The data's already in text form.  Why do I have to get a translation of this in
flash, turn it into graphics, then run an OCR to turn it back into what it
started out as?

Crazy.

I'll just have to use a one-shot email address to register with SlideShare.

This is a good example of technology controlling us, instead of the other way
round.  We should be fighting this, not acceding to it.

It really is a shame we couldn't get Cory Doctorow for April.  It seems we need
him!

<teeth grind>

Ben Zaiboc

--- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, "David Wood" <davidw@...> wrote:
>
> Ben,
>
> The document has a "Download" button on it, which will provide you with a
local PDF.
>
> I'm open to suggestions for better ways of sharing this info!
>
> // David W.
>
> --- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, "bbenzai" <benboc@> wrote:
> >
> > Once the survey is closed, can we have the results in a rather more
user-friendly form than that slideshare site?  It's a flash object, and I can't
grab hold of the text, for putting into some notes to take to the meeting.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Ben Zaiboc
> >
> > --- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, "David Wood" <davidw@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Many thanks to everyone who has submitted answers so far
> > >
> > > A lightly edited set of the responses can now be viewed online:
> > >
> > > http://www.slideshare.net/ukhplus/2009-survey-interim-v1
> > >
> > > The feedback – both positive and negative – is useful, constructive, and
thought-provoking.
> > >
> > > The hard thing to do will be to identify, out of all this feedback, the
small number of changes that we can undertake which will have the biggest
support and/or the biggest impact.
> > >
> > > That will be a topic for discussion at Saturday's Planning meeting:
> > > http://extrobritannia.blogspot.com/2009/12/\
> > > extrobritannia-way-ahead-venue-room-538.html
> > >
> > > The survey remains open.  Anyone who hasn't submitted answers already is
welcome to do so over the next few days.
> > >
> > > --- In extrobritannia@yahoogroups.com, "David Wood" wrote:
> > > >
> > > > All,
> > > >
> > > > Everyone interested in the future of Extrobritannia (UKH+) meetings is
invited to click on the following link:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB229Z3JCFYZJ
> > > >
> > > > The goal of this survey is to obtain feedback about how to evolve and
improve Extrobritannia activities during 2010.
> > > >
> > > > All questions are free-text response.
> > > >
> > > > Answer as many or as few of the questions as you wish.
> > > >
> > > > There are 11 questions in total, spread over 6 pages.
> > > >
> > > > Your answers will be anonymous (unless you write your name into one of
the answers).
> > > >
> > > > Answers submitted by Friday 18th December will be included in the report
presented to the Extrobritannia planning meeting on 19th December.
> > > >
> > > > In case of any problem with this survey, please notify David Wood.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

2009/12/14 bbenzai <benboc@...>
>
>
>
> Once the survey is closed, can we have the results in a rather more
user-friendly form than that slideshare site? It's a flash object, and I can't
grab hold of the text, for putting into some notes to take to the meeting.


But a simple screen capture followed by OCR should do the trick!

Dirk

2009/12/14 David Wood <davidw@...>

>  Many thanks to everyone who has submitted answers so far
>
> A lightly edited set of the responses can now be viewed online:
>
> http://www.slideshare.net/ukhplus/2009-survey-interim-v1
>


That's very encouraging, thanks David! Lots of work to do, time for us to
roll our sleeves up, looks like...

- A


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From http://www.thersa.org/events/our-events/you-are-not-a-gadget

"You Are Not A Gadget"

Jaron Lanier, philosopher, digital guru and architect of Virtual Reality, is
worried.

Individual creativity has begun to go out of fashion. Machines, specifically
computers, are no longer just tools to be used by the human mind - these days,
we treat them as if they are altogether better than humans.

Join Jaron Lanier as he delivers a call to arms against digital collectivism and
proposes richer, more productive ways in which technology might interact with
our culture.

Mon 1st Feb 2010, 18:00-19.15