Abbey! 

 

(Theory of Life, Theory of Happiness and Pain )

 

To
settle the difficult issue (of incidence and alleviation of pain) you have
raised, we may have to develop a firstly a *theory of life* and then, if
possible,
a *theory of happiness and pain*. For that, we shall have to identify the
sources, causes and consequences of life and pain and amalgamate this
information into premises that would constitute the theories.

 

The
painful plight of animals and human beings could thereafter be possibly
explained
to some extent. The theories could also give us some idea about the magnitude
of your services to destitute animals (raccoons).

 

The
objective of life (living) is exercise of personal intelligence. It constitutes
of making of personal truths and their theme-specific implementation. Personal
intelligence or personal truth has an evolutionary value on an absolute/
universal scale. This absolute value is the degree of its compliance with
universal direction of evolution.

 

Personal
intelligence is exercised through wielding of wealth, the truth-implementing
contrivances.
It is enhanced through intellectual atonement (that includes moral, spiritual,
cultural atonements). Volume of intellectual exercise (of extant intellect) by
far exceeds the rate of intellectual atonement.

 

Intellectual
exercise is experienced subjectively as emotion. Acquired/ cumulative
intellect, if persistent, solidifies into instinctual genetics and has the body
transformed commensurately. This is *corporal precipitation* in which personal
truth/ intelligence is geneticized first and materialized/ formalized/
incorporated next.

 

Evolution
is the process in which atonement of personal truth/ intelligence is translated
into augmentation/ enhancement of genetics and body texture/ form. So, there is
a relationship (commensurability, proportionality) between truth-content of
intellect and existential status of genetics/ integral body.

 

Evolution
is a slow and rare phenomenon. Because, intellectual atonement (atonement of
personal truth) is a rare act. Accordingly, we may theoretically differentiate
*static life* from *dynamic life* in the following manner.

 

*Static
life* may be ascribed to a definite/ finite but unchanging intellectual value
and its non-evolving genetics/ body when *dynamic life* may be ascribed to a
changing intellectual value and its evolving genetics/ body.

 

Thus
emerge the two cardinal features of life viz. *consummation of intellect* and
*atonement
of intellect* with these two divisions of consequences viz. *corporal
precipitation* and *corporal evolution*.

 

Consummation
of intellect is primarily exercise of extant intellect that would precipitate
*projected
life* reinforced by socio-cultural, psycho-moral planning. The projected life
is pre-determined by the current intellectual magnitude.

 

Atonement
of intellect is the extra-terrestrial/ other-worldly act of extending existing
intellectual frontier and conducting the ensuing socio-cultural, psycho-moral
metamorphosis and corporal mutation (evolution).

 

There
are in-built subjective indicators (confirmatory feelings) to identify and
assess prospect, progression, digression or recession of life in these two
modes viz. static mode and dynamic mode.

 

In
the static mode, the prospect and progression and digression and recession of
exercise
of existing intellect is sensed respectively as optimism-pessimism
(apprehension), happiness, anxiety and sorrow. In the dynamic mode, prospect
and progression and digression and recession of existential/ corporal status is
sensed respectively as divinity-morbidity (fear), euphoria, wait and grief.

 

When
intellectual exercise falls sort of availing oneself with physical needs
(causing corporal curtailment) viz. physical protection, metabolic needs etc,
sorrow deepens into pain. When it falls short of maintaining native existential
status, grief deepens into a shade of suicidal attitude.

 

Also,
it may be noted that life is transferable. To wit, you may empathetically or
vicariously live your own life by way of acting upon another life.

 

That
is where your animal service (raccoon service) comes into picture. Now, you can
assess the initial (pre-service) and final (post-service) predicament of
raccoon in the light of above discussion and appreciate how much *life* you
collected for yourself in terms of (raccoon*s sensing of) optimism, divinity,
happiness, euphoria etc.




(Bhanu
Padmo)

http://www.bhanupadmo.com


You may
reply this thread upon http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/greenlogic/  as well

or consign a copy to greenlogic@...   for extended
discussions.



--- On Sat, 2/16/13, Michelle <outincyberspace@...> wrote:

From: Michelle <outincyberspace@...>
Subject: Re: [greenlogic] Reply to Kolki Poem / Poem *Eugenics*
To: "greenlogic@..." <greenlogic@...>
Date: Saturday, February 16, 2013, 6:57 PM
















 









       Hi Bhanuji!

Once I found out what Eugenics, allele, and Mendels magic meant, this poem was
really cool!  I like the Buddhas contradiction of Hitlers eugenics.

Just a couple of points - in the poem below yours, the talk about animals in
nature, enjoying wind and rain and snow - well, nature is a cruel mistress,
there is often immense hardships for the animal kingdom, in nature.

I believe that in a sane world, which we are hopefully becoming; that humans
will create a world where everyone lives in ease - that is, no desperation.
Wealth and atonement to dharma, will cause this. Then, it is visionary, but,
humans could assist the animals in nature to obtain the same ease and
happiness.  I know it is not much, but my aiding and abetting the plight of the
lives of raccoons
  that live wild among humans, is a step in this direction.

There is a window on this, in how some horses, dogs and cats, enjoy a much finer
life than what is found in nature - in spite of the immense suffering that does
occur to animals under the mercy of human hands. Om Shanti Om!
         From: Bhanu Padmo <greenbhanu@...>
  To: globallistener@...; greenlogic@...;
TheRampaPath@yahoogroups.com; seerseeker@yahoogroups.com;
Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com; TheBecoming@...; existlist@yahoogroups.com;
dancewithwordstwo@yahoogroups.com
  Sent:
  Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:09:29 AM
  Subject: [greenlogic] Reply to Kolki Poem / Poem *Eugenics*
















 












 

Poem : Eugenics

 

Until it
did hit as inertia of conceit,

Poetry it
was to me.

The inertia
of rest.

 

Spewing
deceptive peace;

Yearning
for price in return;

Price to
comport possessive whim,

Unconditional
and unlimited;

Congealing
into conceit indomitable;

Inertia of
rest it was.

Poetry to me
then;

Until it
did hit as inertia of conceit.

 

A eugenic
purge it soon called for.

This
conceit indomitable.

 

To be the
recessive allele,

It was
bound to dip.

Still in
the garb of bravado though.

This
conceit indomitable.

 

But it was
bound to dip;

Letting the
initiative arrive elsewhere

In allele
dominant.

The uncanny
instrument of natural purge.

 

*Cause in
conceit, no initiative could dwell.

 

Nature
gained, Hitlers lost out.

Oblivion
they were bound for,

Quite
naturally.

They, the
images of conceit.

 

Natural
selection by dream,

They had
contradicted.

Survival of
the wisest,

They had failed
to appreciate.

Still aware
they weren*t

Of Mendel*s
magic.

 

Dominance
of truth so obvious,

They had failed
to perceive;

Even when it
pervaded blood and genes.

 

Still aware
they weren*t

Of Mendel*s
magic.

The magic that
could repaint flowers

And recast
faces.

Even
corporeal inheritance wouldn*t deign

Thenceforth
to be immutable.

 

In egotism
dwelt eugenics vindicated –

Hitlers mused
wistfully;

Until
Buddha*s magnanimity bloomed

Surreptitiously
to thwart.

 

To thwart
this colorful gloom;

This
conceit indomitable.

 

And to turn
it down as the recessive allele.

 

Poetry it
was to me then,

Until it
did hit as inertia terminal.

The inertia
of rest.

 

A eugenic
purge it did ask for soon.




(Bhanu
Padmo)

http://www.bhanupadmo.com


You
may reply this thread upon http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/greenlogic/ 
as well

or consign a copy to greenlogic@...   for extended
discussions............................................................
On Tue, 2/5/13, Global Teacher <globallistener@...> wrote:

Fittest

(Dedicated to an Egalitarian Democratic
World – Deepak Sarkar, www.kolki.com)


<Related
poems:  Free     Best     In
Vain     Harmony     One
World    Universal
Notes     Universal
God     Global Solidarity>

 

Every time I saw a small bird nesting

Having babies without doctors,
nurses, and hospital bills

Surviving and enjoying life in
storms, snow and rain

Without additional clothes, heating
or cooling -

I knew humans could survive, but not
the fittest!

 

Every time I saw/heard Canadian
Geese flying at night

Alone or as a team for a distant
flight

Navigating towards destination
without compass or light

I knew humans could survive, but not
the fittest!

 

Every time I watched a small spider
creating web

Out of nothing except own sap and
legs

Then resting in the centre to catch
preys

Enjoying own creation at its best -

I knew humans could survive, but not
the fittest!

 

Every time a seed germinated in the
soil or water

Grew as plant or trees withstanding
disasters

Shed leaves for the winter only to
be reborn in vigour

I knew humans could survive, but not
the fittest!

 

Every time I looked at small
sparrows playing in the snow

When I was feeling cozy in heated
home among clothes

I knew humans could survive, but not
the fittest!

 

Fittest are natural knower who
exercise self power

Without unlearning instincts to
technological slave work!

Endless dependency only makes humans
enslaved and weaker

As generations strive for expensive
and competitive future!

 

Birds travelling thousands of miles
without rest

Navigating at night over deserts and
oceans

Even a fruit fly does everything,
more than I crave

Eat, meet, multiply and even fly
without much rest!

 

After I leave -

Many animals and birds will outlive
me

Shrubs and trees I planted

Would be surviving and serving
merrily

Without disturbing and destroying
natural harmony -

Of course, if they are not victim of
modern industry!

 

Thus,
the slogan ‘Survival of the fittest’

Resonates very well with Eugenic1
quest

For aristocrative exploitation of
the masses

With population control whenever
needed -

Encouraging supremacist ideology at
the best!

 

Darwin’s theory is flawed with fundamental mistake

Yet remains unchallenged in royal
heritage  

Discovered while travelling on Royal
H.M.S Beagle

Collecting samples from American and
African Islands

Hypothesised in “Origin of Species”

“The Survival of The Fittest”

Without
realizing evolution doesn’t leave any trace!









































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The racists can't stand public scrutiny. They scurry for cover.
They could do with a reading of Jung.

According to Jung the persona is a "segment of the collective psyche" and can
often be mistaken for something individual. Although there may be something
individual in it, it is, rather, he insisted, "a mask that feigns
individuality", while one is acting a collective role through which the voice of
the collective speaks its seductive "truths". Individuation, however, involves,
in part, "divesting oneself from the false wrappings of the persona" and the
realization of a privatized Self liberated from social obligations. Here then
Jung alluded to the persona as being ultimately connected to falsehood, even if
it does have practical value at one level of being. In identifying with the
persona, then, one is forging an unconscious relationship to the Asura of
Falsehood.

When people come in contact with the collective unconscious and there is an
expansion of consciousness, the inevitable outcome, at least initially, is
inflation. Jung is particularly biting in his remarks about people who identify
with any aspect of the collective psyche, which, he argued amounts to full
"acceptance of inflation but now exalted into a system". In mythological imagery
this means being devoured by the dragon, and a loss of individual autonomy.
Genuine self-criticism, he observed, is thrown to the wind and there is the
appearance of a reward in that one seems to participate in a superior world, one
"pregnant with meaning."
http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org/blog/_archives/2010/2/4/4441753.html

--- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <vize9938@...> wrote:

> --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "devindersingh" <dgulhati@> wrote:
> >
> > The elitism here is the old deranged idea called 'White Supremacy'.
> > Don't you see the spite William oozes?
> >
> > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Bhanu Padmo <greenbhanu@> wrote:
> >
> > > William/
> > > Bill,
> >
> > > Why did you
> > > deny my entry into Neoex when you seem to have been interested in elitism?
> >
> > > Are you
> > > sure I am an Eastern Mystic?
> >
> > > Just
> > > rethink if you have purged the elite out. Because, I think I had a new
> > > principle or two on elitism about every theme you could imagine of.
> >
> > > Let me in.
> >
> > > (Bhanu Padmo)
> >Sorry,champ,I have seen the chop job you have done here. Try to sell your
junk here. Nobody but  your buds  will be listening. Bill
> > > --- On Sat, 2/16/13, eduardathome <yeoman@> wrote:
> > >
> > > From: eduardathome <yeoman@>
> > > Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: Not Hinduism
> > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
> > > Date: Saturday, February 16, 2013, 12:57 AM
> >
> > >       done
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
> > > From: William
> > >
> > > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 6:27 PM
> > >
> > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Subject: [existlist] Re: Not Hinduism
> >
> > > --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, eduardathome  wrote:
> >
> > > > Sounds good.  Send the link to moi at ...
> >
> > > > yeoman@
> >
> > > > eduardathome
> > >
> > > >Eduard, the group is  at Neoex.Yahoo groups. I do not know how to send a
> > >
> > > >link but know you can find the group at Yahoo groups. Sorry I am such a
> > >
> > > >computer luddite. Im self taught and pretty  primative. I`ll wait for
your
> > >
> > > >request to join. We are discussing the meteor trikes and misses. Also
what
> > >
> > > >you said about drones disrupting piloted aircraft is being researched in
> > >
> > > >several centers.Bill
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > >
> > > > From: William
> > >
> > > > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 4:41 PM
> > >
> > > > To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > > Subject: [existlist] Not Hinduism
> >
> > > > Eduard, I have accepted Mary at Neoex and will hopefully do the same for
> > >
> > > > you. I will not let the eastern mystics in . I do little or no
moderation
> > >
> > > > so
> > >
> > > > fire away and say what you like. The preamble tells of a  merging of
> > >
> > > > science
> > >
> > > > and existentialism. As the only three members I will give you a veto on
> > >
> > > > new
> > >
> > > > membersThe three of us  shouls  be able to keep the mystics out  and
> > >
> > > > perhaps
> > >
> > > > discuss what we are interested in. We will be small but elite in our
ideas
> > >
> > > > about the modern world. Bill
> >
> > > > ------------------------------------

New Video Link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9AMyh0pdU4
rwr




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deepak!

 

(Theory of Absolute Polity, Theory
of Constitution, Real and Virtual Constitutional Monarchies and Civil
Democracy)

 

The phrase
*constitutional monarchy* is fraught with a much different connotation that
could offer a much greater meaning. This great meaning can be arrived at if we
tread an analytical path ascribed with a characteristic unconventional and
radical reasoning.

 

Since the
phrase *constitutional monarchy* includes the term *constitution*, a waypoint
on that unconventional political logic will be the *theory of constitution*.

 

Terms like
monarchy, democracy etc refer to sovereignty of nation. Hence, the theme of the
discussion that would harbor the new political reasoning should be national
sovereignty.

 

To
understand national sovereignty, we shall start with individual sovereignty.
Unmitigable
personal dream and personal intelligence may be seen as personal/ individual
sovereignty. The description *unmitigable* here means *not coerced to mitigate
while being positively vulnerable to healthier influence*.

 

National
sovereignty would be sum total of individual sovereignties taken over all
citizens of the nation. However, the individual sovereignties aren*t alike.
They fall into two categories viz. ordinary and extraordinary. To say that
citizens are inherently divisible into two such natural classes may seem to
have oligarchic undertone, unless we learn this latent and intriguing nature of
human society through an appropriate analogy viz. Net-Knot Analogy.

 

A
fisherman*s round spread-net constitutes of knots and threads. Society
resembles such a net insofar as evenly distributed rarer citizens form
intermittent psycho-social polarities through their naturally-occurring higher/
unusual dream, intelligence and creativity. Call them *natural grassroots civil
leaders.*

 

Ordinary
citizens look forward to local natural grassroots leaders for psycho-social
leadership. Thus practically, the national sovereignty would be the sum total
of effects and influences of these evenly distributed intermittently occurring
sovereign citizens. This is the *greatest political truth*.

 

Here comes
into sight the *theory of constitution*. State*s written constitution ought to
incorporate the *greatest political truth* into its preamble and commence its
implementation from the very first letter of the main body of constitution.

 

The leading
light of the constitution is thus the fact that the plenary body of omnipresent
elected grassroots sovereign citizens would exclusively form the *state polity*
and hence, would need to be eternally protected and universally empowered.

 

Constitution*s
acknowledgement and implementation of this *civil principle* would make the
state governance a *true democracy*. Call it *civil democracy*.

 

Any
deviation would usher in *constitutional monarchy*, real or virtual and of
different degrees and forms. A deviated constitution*s implicitly-altruistic
rhetoric would hide the worst political pretense. The apparent altruism would be
furtively nullified sooner or later frustrating popular hope and consummating
the cruel anti-national and selfish intention of the political hijackers.  

 

Crucial is
the process of electing the grassroots sovereign citizens who have been ignored
from time immemorial precisely because of their pro-people dream and anti-evil
intelligence. The election would call for an ingenious procedure. The present
*vote-based
gross election* would have to be replaced by *value-based perfect election*.
Let*s check out this proposed perfect electoral procedure.

 

If a
1000-member village has to elect its 10-member village-level *civil body*
comprising of 10 sovereign citizens, let each villager reckon, discreetly and
secretly, own 10 favorites in decreasing order of deserved veneration. This
submitted ballot paper would be assessed to assign 10 points to the top name
and rest names would be reckoned in a decreasing order until the last person
scores 1. Considerations of all ballot papers (with the objective of finding
sum total of individual marks) would bring out the best 10, the *unmistakable*
10 sovereign citizens.

 

Let*s have
a look at the hierarchy of such sovereign citizens in a *civil polity*. Let*s
assume for the sake of ease of explanation that, in India, 10 villages make 1
panchayat and 10 panchayats make 1 block and 10 blocks make 1 district and 10
districts make 1 province and 10 provinces make the Country of India. All the
members of all 10-member village-level civil bodies would appoint, through
perfect election, a 10-member panchayat-level civil body and this process would
go on in turns at rising levels until the formation of province-level civil
bodies.

 

India*s *civil parliament* would then
comprise of all members of all 10-member province-level civil bodies. This will
be the sovereign political body that will elect from within itself India*s
President. Civil parliament would be the legislative, judicial and
administrative apex. The member of civil parliament will be the real
legislator-judge-administrator when the appointed civil servants would only be
subordinate-assistant judge, subordinate-assistant administrator etc.

 

The present
Parliament would have to be demoted to be called *managerial parliament*
harboring the ministry (body of state managers) and being thoroughly
subordinated to the civil parliament.

 

This will
be an outline of the final consequence of the introduction of *civil
constitution* and the consequential end of present form of *virtual*
constitutional monarchy of India.
The other countries embracing civil polity will follow respective paths of
reform.

 

Civil
Polity/ Civil Democracy that will replace all degrees/ forms of virtual and
real constitutional monarchies is the product of this Theory of Absolute
Polity.




(Bhanu
Padmo)

http://www.bhanupadmo.com


You may
reply this thread upon http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/greenlogic/ 
as well

or consign a copy to greenlogic@...  
for extended discussions.




--- On Sat, 2/16/13, Global Teacher <globallistener@...> wrote:

From: Global Teacher <globallistener@...>
Subject: Easy Methodology To End Constitutional Monarchies Peacefully in the
West To Save And Maintain Democracies Around The World! Deepak Sarkar,
www.kolki.com
To: ""TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com"" <TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com>,
"sbicitizen@yahoogroups.com" <sbicitizen@yahoogroups.com>,
"issuesonline_worldwide@yahoogroups.com"
<issuesonline_worldwide@yahoogroups.com>, ""Viswa: Gmail""
<viswa.ghosh@...>, ""'vasant sardesai'"" <vasant_sardesai@...>,
"“kirit mehta”" <kiritsir@...>, "“Surya Rao Maturu”"
<suryaraom@...>, "kiritsir@..." <kiritsir@...>, ""vijendran
rao"" <vijendran.rao@...>, ""Benoit Couture"" <benoitctr@...>,
""devindersingh gulati"" <dgulhati@...>, "Major(Retd).R.Rudra Narasimham"
<rebbapragada@...>, "Bhavanajagat." <donotreply@...>, ""Koti
Sreekrishna"" <tatachar@...>, ""dr_ssdhillon""
<drdln@...>, ""Future Gujarat"" <futuregujarat@...>,
""Swarnim Gujarat"" <swarnim.gujarat2010@...>, ""info@...""
<info@...>, ""danchan budhoo"" <dbudhoo2000@...>, ""Dilip
  Kumar Roy"" <diliproy@...>, ""Swarnim Gujarat""
<swarnim.gujarat2010@...>, "P.K. Siddharth" <siddharthpk@...>,
"greenbhanu@..." <greenbhanu@...>, "baig.murad@..."
<baig.murad@...>, "CMVikram@..." <CMVikram@...>,
"ramangod@..." <ramangod@...>, "Leena Mehendale"
<leena.mehendale@...>, "vavamenon@..." <vavamenon@...>,
"vavamenon@..." <vavamenon@...>, "Prem Kumar Sabhlok"
<pksabhlok@...>, ""Ayush"" <arisebharat@...>,
"gdigest@..." <gdigest@...>,
"devinder.thakur@..." <devinder.thakur@...>,
"venkat.hpu@..." <venkat.hpu@...>, "Ramarao"
<rbodapati@...>, "Rajaram Bojji" <rajaram.bojji@...>, "Rudra
Narasimham Rebbapragada" <rebbapragada@...>, "Ramesam Vemuri"
<vemuri.ramesam@...>, "Keshav Sundaresan" <sundaresan08619@...>,
"Serve Veda" <vedakavi@...>,
  "Krishna Kumar Pillalamarri" <pkrishnak@...>, "pakay46@..."
<pakay46@...>, "director@..." <director@...>,
"writeatlas@..." <writeatlas@...>, "barbara.paolucci@..."
<barbara.paolucci@...>, "singhvj@..." <singhvj@...>,
"sarkar28@..." <sarkar28@...>, "MOHAN DADLANI"
<mohandadlani@...>, "Yahoo!" <royaldecor99@...>, "Satish Oberoi"
<oberoi50@...>, "smajhi@..." <smajhi@...>
Cc: "Raghu Anthanarayanan" <raghu@...>,
""greenlogic@..."" <greenlogic@...>,
""Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com"" <Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com>,
""seerseeker@yahoogroups.com"" <seerseeker@yahoogroups.com>, "Alan Kuzlev"
<esotericismspirituality@yahoogroups.com>, ""existlist@yahoogroups.com""
<existlist@yahoogroups.com>, "ankh" <ankhaton@...>, "singhvj@..."
<singhvj@...>, "sarkar28@..." <sarkar28@...>,
"media_monitor5@yahoogroups.com" <media_monitor5@yahoogroups.com>,
"hitaya123@..." <hitaya123@...>,
"stop-corruption-worldwide@googlegroups.com"
<stop-corruption-worldwide@googlegroups.com>,
"dandimarch-ii-global@googlegroups.com" <dandimarch-ii-global@googlegroups.com>,
"hindiUSA@yahoogroups.com" <hindiUSA@yahoogroups.com>, "pakay46@..."
<pakay46@...>, "director@..." <director@...>,
"writeatlas@..." <writeatlas@...>,
  "barbara.paolucci@..." <barbara.paolucci@...>
Date: Saturday, February 16, 2013, 10:35 AM

[Link to article: http://www.kolki.com/peace/Ending-Constitutional-Monarchy.htm]





[From the Author of “Poems by Kolki – Absolutely Humane”, “Real Path To
9/11” & “Sayings of Kolki”]
[Poem: A Day of Non-Violence]
<Planet Earth       Day of Consciousness       Patriot   
  Universal Super Power      Spiritualism      Universal Notes>
 
Easy Methodology To End Constitutional Monarchies Peacefully in the West To Save
And Maintain Democracies Around The World! Deepak Sarkar, http://www.kolki.com/
 
Throughout history of the Constitutional Monarchs Parliament has been closed or
prorogued, elected Prime Minister assassinated or had to step down for being not
so loyal to Monarchy and/or NATO alliance; even for evangelical reason like the
elected Members unacceptance of the agenda and code of conducts of the Church of
England headed by the Queen. Currently Belgium has no active Government for more
than a year but NATO HQ is operating from there in full gear of aggressive war
mode blessed by the Royals as Commander-in-Chiefs. Similar example of democratic
rights violations can be found throughout Monarchial Alliance including Sweden
and Australia. Both World Wars were fought to empower the Monarchial Alliance
and now they are fighting War on Terror defying Rule of Law and Proof of
Conviction, avoiding open
  public investigation of 9/11 type massive attacks blaming alleged virtual
patsies, which can trigger real WW III any time aided by their Covert
Intelligence and high-tech propaganda machineries like Echelon. So, it is time
To End Constitutional Monarchies Peacefully in the West To Save And Maintain
Democracies Around The World!  It is really time for most Western people to
enjoy life as free democratic
  proud citizens without being labeled as “Subjects” of non-productive
hereditary King/Queen bound by loyalty!      
 
<9/11 Truth Smoking Guns       Remote Military Hijacking       Why
Media Is Silent?      What is Al-Qaeda?>
 
Easy Methodology for Peaceful Conversion: (general with Canadian Example)
1st Step: Rename Governor General as President and all Lt. Governor Generals as
Governors
2nd Step: Install pictures of President and Prime Minister in Public places
3rd Step: Rename “Throne Speech” as “Presidential Speech”
4th Step: Call elections for all Senators as convenient to eliminate partisan
loyalty
5th Step: Call for Presidential and Gubernatorial election after one year
6th Step: Start printing money with faces of Good Canadians who served for the
nation
7th Step: Change Royal Canadian Mount Police (RCMP) to Canadian Mount Police
(CMP)
8th Step: Review why Canada has debts, to whom, and resolve indebtedness
forever!
9th Step: Review why only 33 Millions Canadians cannot enjoy full employment
when dear tax dollars
             In billions are being wasted by CSIS paying idle
brains around the world and military for
             Empowering The Queen of England and her colonizing war
machines when students around
             Canada have to compromise lunch and chastity for ever
increasing tuition and fees;
             most citizens live on coupons to support family;
universal healthcare losing its meaning rapidly!
 
For UK:     
 
. Rename Queen as President, ‘Buckingham Palace’ as ‘Presidential
Palace’
. Rename LORD as MP
. Rename UK as Great Britain (UK is Monarchial)
. Rest is similar to the General Methodology
 
Rest is detail afterwards! Where there is a will there is way! Anyone who cleans
after own mess knows that the filth is more than it appears!
 
<Related Poems: Democracy     Participatory Democracy       Dangerous
World Situation    Confide>
 
God helps Britons, Australians, Canadians, New Zealanders, Swedes (Swedish),
Belgians, Norwegians, Danes (Danish), Netherlanders to rise (wake up),  to end
Constitutional Monarchy (Virtual Military State)  for true
  Participatory Democracy in order to sustain real peace and justice around the
world eliminating all hegemony related wars in an otherwise peace-loving world!
There is nothing ceremonial about the Constitutional Monarchs, who are the
Commander-in-Chief owning the loyalty of military and intelligence (Covert
  & Overt), as well as Government helping elect the loyal party and its leader
as the Prime Minister, throughout History! These Royals don’t like and don’t
want democracy; unitedly they are a colonizing military alliance which has been
creating Oligarchies around the world - even supporting Absolute Monarchs and
Dictators.      
 
<Related Poems: Fallen Soldiers     Canadian Pride    American
  Pride    Body Bag     Dying     Guantanamo Bay     War>
 
 
UK’s Monarchial Celebrations, related massive media coverage are direct slaps
to worldwide democracy!
 
British style Multi-Party politics is not democracy per definition “Government
of the people, For the people, By the people”, rather ruling by clans like
soccer, cricket or baseball where losers mourn until the next game. Political
Parties can never unite a Country; they rule a divided country relishing
strategic victory often over the majority will. In a true participatory
democracy all candidates must be independent campaigning on important local,
national, and international issues determined by non-partisan elected Central
Election Commission headed by the elected president
  guided by the advising committee formed using the best talents of the country
from all subjects to make life humanely better.
 
Here is a poetic hypothesis for true participatory democracy which can be
debated and modified for the best result: Poem “Participatory Democracy” =>>
http://www.kolki.com/poems/Participatory-Democracy.htm
 
[What is killing and destroying people’s democracies?]
<Cecil Rhodes Methodology of Colonizing the World Re-Annexing America>
 
Most world problems are direct or indirect effects of colonialism beginning with
Dorian Greek Alexander the conqueror inflicting divisions, fear of persecutions
among peaceful nations, slavery, and triggering diasporic migrations of people
to uninhabitable parts of Earth especially true in Africa! World as a whole is a
complete resource base which need to be shared and distributed equally among
world citizens to achieve true democracy, human rights, and everlasting peace!
 
There is no Heaven in the sky! Earth was Heaven when colonialists and their
evangelists didn’t convert parts of it as Hell while motivating the slaves
work harder to reach a fictitious better place “Heaven = Haven”! End of
Monarchy and related colonialisms can re-establish lost Heaven on Earth, a place
without borders, class, divisions, and supremacist orders!
 
<Related Poem: Politics      International Republican Party     
Intelligence      Democratic Security>
 
God (The Universal Loving Expression) bless all sentient being for eternal peace
in a neighbourly world unitedly committed to creative cultural and spiritual
evolution.  Kolki]  
 
[When religions coexist, leaders communicate, media respect neutrality, laws not
blinded by immunity, and citizens need take precedence over profitability -
peace becomes reality, world lives in harmony appreciating human rights. Kolki]
About Kolki            ☼Kolki Peace
Foundation☼              Why Kolki?
Author: Deepak Sarkar, 844 Royal Oak Ave, Victoria, BC V8X 3T2, Canada; Tel/Fax:
250-412-2897;
E-Mail: Deepak.Sarkar@...; Poetry & Peace Web Site: http://www.kolki.com/
Sayings of Kolki      Truth      GLOBAL ISSUES
 
<Related Poems: Diplomacy      Global Solidarity       Harmony  
   Religion       Peace Now>
 
How Easily We Can Achieve Undominated Co-Existing Heavenly World? Lot Easier
Than Most Can Think Of! (Simple Methodology as a Starter)
 
Why Countries With Majority Jesus Loving Supposedly Democratic People Need Guns
Without Control?
 
How Much Are Intelligence Service's Contributions To Our Society So Far? Aren't
Hiding Truth & Obstructions To Justice Felonies?
 
▼  ▼  ▼
 
End Notes:
[The Canadian Conservative government shut down debate on a budget bill again.
"This is a (expletive) disgrace ... closure again. And on the Budget. There's
not a democracy in the world that would tolerate this jackboot (expletive)." Pat
Martin, Long time New Democrat MP, Canadian Parliament] It should be noted that
the same Progressive Conservative Pro-War Government Prorogued Canadian
Parliament last year during Budget Crisis, still came back to
  power aided by the media due to the unconditional support to military and
Israel.  
 
Canada must take the lead to end Constitutional Monarchy and let others follow
so that:
. A non-elected Governor General can never close our parliament in session
. No one can take beloved troops to distant foreign lands without a debate in
Parliament
. Every friendly fire related fallen soldier triggers an open public
investigation
. Killings of RCMP officers like in Alberta are investigated openly urgently
. No one can delay Air India Explosion investigation with uncompromised
evidences
. CSIS (Intelligence) can never get away destroying important tapes and
evidences
. All killings by RCMP officers, like Ian Bush, warrant immediate public
investigation  
. Finally 33 Million Canadians can enjoy full employment in the second largest
country
 
How can Canadians expect Canada to remain Sovereign and Democratic under Stephen
Harper’s Royal Regime?
 
United Monarchy is the greatest threat to human civilization using covert
banking corruptions and  mercenaries, Intelligence and military deceptions,
which has been systematically destroying
  democracy and culture around the world for perpetuating Oligarchy hiding behind
Constitutional (Guaranteed) Monarchy! Kolki  
 
If USA is really serious about democratizing the world, why not start with The
United Kingdom, the main colonizing force, its tributaries1 (including Norway,
Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Australia, Canada, New Zealand,
and Luxembourg) and accessories (including Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Dubai, Kuwait,
Oman, Jordon, Bhutan, and Japan). Last but not least USA must have a Central
Election Commission and all Senators must be chosen by elections to eradicate
Philosopher Kings whose allegiance are to The United Kingdom of Israel
(Church).    
 
Reference: Developed Constitutional Monarchies
“Poems by Kolki – Absolutely Humane”, a recipe for better world, Trafford
USA, 2007 July
“Real Path To 9 11”, Trafford USA, 2010 March!
 
Songs:  Celebrating Heavenly Life on Earth             
Co-Existence             Universal Celebration
 
Utopia           One World          Poetic Revolution

[Link to article: http://www.kolki.com/peace/Ending-Constitutional-Monarchy.htm]





[From the Author of “Poems by Kolki – Absolutely Humane”, “Real Path To
9/11” & “Sayings of Kolki”]
[Poem: A Day of Non-Violence]
<Planet Earth       Day of Consciousness       Patriot   
  Universal Super Power      Spiritualism      Universal Notes>
 
Easy Methodology To End Constitutional Monarchies Peacefully in the West To Save
And Maintain Democracies Around The World! Deepak Sarkar, www.kolki.com
 
Throughout history of the Constitutional Monarchs Parliament has been closed or
prorogued, elected Prime Minister assassinated or had to step down for being not
so loyal to Monarchy and/or NATO alliance; even for evangelical reason like the
elected Members unacceptance of the agenda and code of conducts of the Church of
England headed by the Queen. Currently Belgium has no active Government for more
than a year but NATO HQ is operating from there in full gear of aggressive war
mode blessed by the Royals as Commander-in-Chiefs. Similar example of democratic
rights violations can be found throughout Monarchial Alliance including Sweden
and Australia. Both World Wars were fought to empower the Monarchial Alliance
and now they are fighting War on Terror defying Rule of Law and Proof of
Conviction,
  avoiding open public investigation of 9/11 type massive attacks blaming alleged
virtual patsies, which can trigger real WW III any time aided by their Covert
Intelligence and high-tech propaganda machineries like Echelon. So, it is time
To End Constitutional Monarchies Peacefully in the West To Save And Maintain
Democracies Around The World!  It is really time for most Western people to
enjoy life as free democratic proud citizens without being labeled as
“Subjects” of non-productive hereditary King/Queen bound by loyalty! 
    
 
<9/11 Truth Smoking Guns       Remote Military Hijacking       Why
Media Is Silent?      What is Al-Qaeda?>
 
Easy Methodology for Peaceful Conversion: (general with Canadian Example)
1st Step: Rename Governor General as President and all Lt. Governor Generals as
Governors
2nd Step: Install pictures of President and Prime Minister in Public places
3rd Step: Rename “Throne Speech” as “Presidential Speech”
4th Step: Call elections for all Senators as convenient to eliminate partisan
loyalty
5th Step: Call for Presidential and Gubernatorial election after one year
6th Step: Start printing money with faces of Good Canadians who served for the
nation
7th Step: Change Royal Canadian Mount Police (RCMP) to Canadian Mount Police
(CMP)
8th Step: Review why Canada has debts, to whom, and resolve indebtedness
forever!
9th Step: Review why only 33 Millions Canadians cannot enjoy full employment
when dear tax dollars
             In billions are being wasted by CSIS paying idle
brains around the world and military for
             Empowering The Queen of England and her colonizing war
machines when students around
             Canada have to compromise lunch and chastity for ever
increasing tuition and fees;
             most citizens live on coupons to support family;
universal healthcare losing its meaning rapidly!
 
For UK:     
 
. Rename Queen as President, ‘Buckingham Palace’ as ‘Presidential
Palace’
. Rename LORD as MP
. Rename UK as Great Britain (UK is Monarchial)
. Rest is similar to the General Methodology
 
Rest is detail afterwards! Where there is a will there is way! Anyone who cleans
after own mess knows that the filth is more than it appears!
 
<Related Poems: Democracy     Participatory Democracy       Dangerous
World Situation    Confide>
 
God helps Britons, Australians, Canadians, New Zealanders, Swedes (Swedish),
Belgians, Norwegians, Danes (Danish), Netherlanders to rise (wake up),  to end
Constitutional Monarchy (Virtual Military State)  for true Participatory
Democracy in order to sustain real peace and justice around the world
eliminating all hegemony related wars in an otherwise peace-loving world! There
is nothing ceremonial about the Constitutional Monarchs, who are the
Commander-in-Chief owning the loyalty of military and intelligence (Covert &
Overt), as well as Government helping elect the loyal party and its leader as
the Prime Minister, throughout History! These Royals don’t like and don’t
want democracy; unitedly they are a colonizing military alliance which has been
creating Oligarchies around the world - even supporting Absolute Monarchs and
Dictators.      
 
<Related Poems: Fallen Soldiers     Canadian Pride    American Pride  
 Body Bag     Dying     Guantanamo Bay     War>
 
 
UK’s Monarchial Celebrations, related massive media coverage are direct slaps
to worldwide democracy!
 
British style Multi-Party politics is not democracy per definition “Government
of the people, For the people, By the people”, rather ruling by clans like
soccer, cricket or baseball where losers mourn until the next game. Political
Parties can never unite a Country; they rule a divided country relishing
strategic victory often over the majority will. In a true participatory
democracy all candidates must be independent campaigning on important local,
national, and international issues determined by non-partisan elected Central
  Election Commission headed by the elected president guided by the advising
committee formed using the best talents of the country from all subjects to make
life humanely better.
 
Here is a poetic hypothesis for true participatory democracy which can be
debated and modified for the best result: Poem “Participatory Democracy” =>>
http://www.kolki.com/poems/Participatory-Democracy.htm
 
[What is killing and destroying people’s democracies?]
<Cecil Rhodes Methodology of Colonizing the World Re-Annexing America>
 
Most world problems are direct or indirect effects of colonialism beginning with
Dorian Greek Alexander the conqueror inflicting divisions, fear of persecutions
among peaceful nations, slavery, and triggering diasporic migrations of people
to uninhabitable parts of Earth especially true in Africa! World as a whole is a
complete resource base which need to be shared and distributed equally among
world citizens to achieve true democracy, human rights, and everlasting
  peace!
 
There is no Heaven in the sky! Earth was Heaven when colonialists and their
evangelists didn’t convert parts of it as Hell while motivating the slaves
work harder to reach a fictitious better place “Heaven = Haven”! End of
Monarchy and related colonialisms can re-establish lost Heaven on Earth, a place
without borders, class, divisions, and supremacist orders!
 
<Related Poem: Politics      International Republican
  Party      Intelligence      Democratic Security>
 
God (The Universal Loving Expression) bless all sentient being for eternal peace
in a neighbourly world unitedly committed to creative cultural and spiritual
evolution.  Kolki]  
 
[When religions coexist, leaders communicate, media respect neutrality, laws not
blinded by immunity, and citizens need take precedence over profitability -
peace becomes reality, world lives in harmony appreciating human rights. Kolki]
About Kolki            ☼Kolki Peace
Foundation☼              Why Kolki?
Author: Deepak Sarkar, 844 Royal Oak Ave, Victoria, BC V8X 3T2, Canada; Tel/Fax:
250-412-2897;
E-Mail: Deepak.Sarkar@...; Poetry & Peace Web Site: www.kolki.com
Sayings of Kolki      Truth      GLOBAL ISSUES
 
<Related Poems: Diplomacy      Global Solidarity       Harmony  
   Religion       Peace Now>
 
How Easily We Can Achieve Undominated Co-Existing Heavenly World? Lot Easier
Than Most Can Think Of! (Simple Methodology as a
  Starter)
 
Why Countries With Majority Jesus Loving Supposedly Democratic People Need Guns
Without Control?
 
How Much Are Intelligence Service's Contributions To Our Society So Far? Aren't
Hiding Truth & Obstructions To Justice Felonies?
 
▼  ▼  ▼
 
End Notes:
[The Canadian Conservative government shut down debate on a budget bill again.
"This is a (expletive) disgrace ... closure again. And on the Budget. There's
not a democracy in the world that would tolerate this jackboot (expletive)." Pat
Martin, Long time New Democrat MP, Canadian Parliament] It should be noted that
the same Progressive Conservative Pro-War
  Government Prorogued Canadian Parliament last year during Budget Crisis, still
came back to power aided by the media due to the unconditional support to
military and Israel.  
 
Canada must take the lead to end Constitutional Monarchy and let others follow
so that:
. A non-elected Governor General can never close our parliament in session
. No one can take beloved troops to distant foreign lands without a debate in
Parliament
. Every friendly fire related fallen soldier triggers an open public
investigation
. Killings of RCMP officers like in Alberta are investigated openly urgently
. No one can delay Air India Explosion investigation with uncompromised
evidences
. CSIS (Intelligence) can never get away destroying important tapes and
evidences
. All killings by RCMP officers, like Ian Bush, warrant immediate public
investigation  
. Finally 33 Million Canadians can enjoy full employment in the second largest
country
 
How can Canadians expect Canada to remain Sovereign and Democratic under Stephen
Harper’s Royal Regime?
 
United Monarchy is the greatest threat to human civilization using covert
banking corruptions and  mercenaries, Intelligence and military deceptions,
which has been systematically destroying democracy and culture around the world
for perpetuating Oligarchy hiding behind Constitutional (Guaranteed) Monarchy!
Kolki  
 
If USA is really serious about democratizing the world, why not start with The
United Kingdom, the main colonizing force, its tributaries1 (including Norway,
Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, Australia, Canada, New Zealand,
and Luxembourg) and accessories (including Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Dubai, Kuwait,
Oman, Jordon, Bhutan,
  and Japan). Last but not least USA must have a Central Election Commission and
all Senators must be chosen by elections to eradicate Philosopher Kings whose
allegiance are to The United Kingdom of Israel (Church).    
 
Reference: Developed Constitutional Monarchies
“Poems by Kolki – Absolutely Humane”, a recipe for better world, Trafford
USA, 2007 July
“Real Path To 9 11”, Trafford USA, 2010 March!
 
Songs:  Celebrating Heavenly Life on Earth             
Co-Existence             Universal Celebration
 
Utopia           One World          Poetic Revolution



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What is Homo Ensophicus they ask
Can you do a short video of it it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WOLZNu8_3A



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

IN ancient times, during the Roman ascendency, there was a great rhetorician,
Longinus by name. According to him the greatness of any writing lies in how far
it echoes the inner Self. The more developed is the soul of a poet the higher
will be the poetic genius. An immature soul can hardly soar very high.
A modern English critic,¹ who appreciated this view, remarked that the
present-day artistic creations are mostly insignificant and futile, for the
modern world is wanting in highly developed souls.            .
Not to speak of a really great soul, we have almost forgotten in these days the
meaning of creation by the inner soul. The source of inspiration nowadays is the
brain or the nerves or a mixture of the two in different proportions.
Intellectual curiosity and nervous excitement and hunger have enveloped the
whole sphere of life, consciousness and being. Anything else of deeper
significance has sunk into the abyss of oblivion. In one word, 'Art for Art's
sake' has been the present-day principle in the field of artistic creation. The
artist does not care for any extrinsic ideal or aim. He finds his ideal and aim
in himself. He grows of himself, he establishes himself and he realises himself
in his own creation. Far from seeking an ideal, even beauty is no longer the aim
of art. What is art? The creation of the artist. Who is the artist? He who
creates himself. Very well; but what does the word 'self' signify? There's the
rub. Everything depends on
  this. In ancient times the word 'self' used to signify either
the Psycqic Being, which is the delegate of the Supreme Self, or the Supreme
Self Itself – "Know Thyself". In modern times 'self' signifies something
exoteric, the surface consciousness acting through the brain and nerves.
The moderns hold that the essence of art and artistic creation consists in
complete expression of one's own self, but like the Virochana of the Upanishad,
who took the body for the Self, they have applied the word 'self' to mean the
consciousness acting through the nerves. But it must be admitted that they have
exceeded Virochana by one step, going either within or above. They have
discovered an intermediate link between the physical sheath and the higher
supra-physical. In ancient times 'self' would always signify the Psychic Being
and never the self-centered body.
The moderns may ask: "Is it obligatory that one should have a great soul in
order to be, a great poet?" In the hoary past it was almost so. Valmiki,
Vyasa and Homer rightly deserve to fall into that category. In his artistic
creation the poet's inner Self comes to the fore. That is why it is said that
the subject-matter and the way of expressing it are nothing but the
real Being in the poet. The outer manifestation of this Being is of course
diverse and manifold. The inner soul of Shakespeare is wide and magnanimous. It
has, as it were, the quality of water. It takes up the form of that very vessel
in which it is put and assumes the colour thereof. Milton's
inner Being represents height, density, weight and seriousness. Dante's
inner Being represents intensity, virility and Tapasya (askesis). Kalidasa's
innerBeing represents beauty, while that of the Upanishadic seers represents
luminosity.
Verily the greatness of the poet is the greatness of the inner consciousness.
And the expression of his inner consciousness is the essence of his poetic
creation. So long as this inner consciousness is vigilant and active in the
poet, his creations and activities never suffer in manners. His creations will
not be vitiated by gross touches. He alone is a great poet whose consciousness
is hardly clouded, although it is said that even 'Homer nods'; to me the lesser
poet is he who at times breaks through the cloud, and a non-poet is he who is
ever strongly shrouded with indelible cloud. 
http://sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=_StaticContent/SriAurobind\
oAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Nolini%20Kanta%20Gupta/Volume-7/-16_The%\
20Greatness%20of%20Poetry.htm 
Gulati


________________________________
  From: Bhanu Padmo <greenbhanu@...>
To: globallistener@...; greenlogic@...;
TheRampaPath@yahoogroups.com; seerseeker@yahoogroups.com;
Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com; TheBecoming@...; existlist@yahoogroups.com;
dancewithwordstwo@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, 16 February 2013 9:39 PM
Subject: [greenlogic] Reply to Kolki Poem / Poem *Eugenics*


 
 
Poem : Eugenics
 
Until it
did hit as inertia of conceit,
Poetry it
was to me.
The inertia
of rest.
 
Spewing
deceptive peace;
Yearning
for price in return;
Price to
comport possessive whim,
Unconditional
and unlimited;
Congealing
into conceit indomitable;
Inertia of
rest it was.
Poetry to me
then;
Until it
did hit as inertia of conceit.
 
A eugenic
purge it soon called for.
This
conceit indomitable.
 
To be the
recessive allele,
It was
bound to dip.
Still in
the garb of bravado though.
This
conceit indomitable.
 
But it was
bound to dip;
Letting the
initiative arrive elsewhere
In allele
dominant.
The uncanny
instrument of natural purge.
 
*Cause in
conceit, no initiative could dwell.
 
Nature
gained, Hitlers lost out.
Oblivion
they were bound for,
Quite
naturally.
They, the
images of conceit.
 
Natural
selection by dream,
They had
contradicted.
Survival of
the wisest,
They had failed
to appreciate.
Still aware
they weren*t
Of Mendel*s
magic.
 
Dominance
of truth so obvious,
They had failed
to perceive;
Even when it
pervaded blood and genes.
 
Still aware
they weren*t
Of Mendel*s
magic.
The magic that
could repaint flowers
And recast
faces.
Even
corporeal inheritance wouldn*t deign
Thenceforth
to be immutable.
 
In egotism
dwelt eugenics vindicated –
Hitlers mused
wistfully;
Until
Buddha*s magnanimity bloomed
Surreptitiously
to thwart.
 
To thwart
this colorful gloom;
This
conceit indomitable.
 
And to turn
it down as the recessive allele.
 
Poetry it
was to me then,
Until it
did hit as inertia terminal.
The inertia
of rest.
 
A eugenic
purge it did ask for soon.

(Bhanu
Padmo)
http://www.bhanupadmo.comYou
may reply this thread upon http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/greenlogic/ 
as well
or consign a copy to greenlogic@...   for extended
discussions.
...........................................................

On Tue, 2/5/13, Global Teacher <globallistener@...> wrote:


Fittest
(Dedicated to an Egalitarian Democratic
World – Deepak Sarkar, www.kolki.com)
<Related
poems:  Free     Best     In
Vain     Harmony     One
World    Universal
Notes     Universal
God     Global Solidarity>
 
Every time I saw a small bird nesting
Having babies without doctors,
nurses, and hospital bills
Surviving and enjoying life in
storms, snow and rain
Without additional clothes, heating
or cooling -
I knew humans could survive, but not
the fittest!
 
Every time I saw/heard Canadian
Geese flying at night
Alone or as a team for a distant
flight
Navigating towards destination
without compass or light
I knew humans could survive, but not
the fittest!
 
Every time I watched a small spider
creating web
Out of nothing except own sap and
legs
Then resting in the centre to catch
preys
Enjoying own creation at its best -
I knew humans could survive, but not
the fittest!
 
Every time a seed germinated in the
soil or water
Grew as plant or trees withstanding
disasters
Shed leaves for the winter only to
be reborn in vigour
I knew humans could survive, but not
the fittest!
 
Every time I looked at small
sparrows playing in the snow
When I was feeling cozy in heated
home among clothes
I knew humans could survive, but not
the fittest!
 
Fittest are natural knower who
exercise self power
Without unlearning instincts to
technological slave work!
Endless dependency only makes humans
enslaved and weaker
As generations strive for expensive
and competitive future!
 
Birds travelling thousands of miles
without rest
Navigating at night over deserts and
oceans
Even a fruit fly does everything,
more than I crave
Eat, meet, multiply and even fly
without much rest!
 
After I leave -
Many animals and birds will outlive
me
Shrubs and trees I planted
Would be surviving and serving
merrily
Without disturbing and destroying
natural harmony -
Of course, if they are not victim of
modern industry!
 
Thus,
the slogan ‘Survival of the fittest’
Resonates very well with Eugenic1 quest
For aristocrative exploitation of
the masses
With population control whenever
needed -
Encouraging supremacist ideology at
the best!
 
Darwin’s theory is flawed with fundamental mistake
Yet remains unchallenged in royal
heritage  
Discovered while travelling on Royal
H.M.S Beagle
Collecting samples from American and
African Islands
Hypothesised in “Origin of Species”
“The Survival of The Fittest”
Without
realizing evolution doesn’t leave any trace!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What are you?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvSI-v0-Uqk



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What I have gathered so far from the discussion I summarize thus:
The term religion is a western construct that cannot convey the  exact meaning
of dharma. To be a member of a religion is akin to being  a member of a club
where you follow club rules to stay in or else be thrown out. Dharma on the
other hand gives you considerable leeway to follow your individual growth path
so long as it is not in conflict with the growth of others similarly following
their dharma without also coming in conflict with society at large. 
A sampradaya is a variation of a dharmic tradition or path that may ebb or wane
over time, sometimes be totally eclipsed...to be replaced by new sampradayas;
but 'sampradaya' always finds its rationale in the everlasting dharma. 
These two instances here fit neither into the mould of religion, nor of
sampradaya. They find refuge in dharma:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/seerseeker/message/13429
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/existlist/message/59414

Gulati


________________________________
  From: vasant sardesai <vasant_sardesai@...>
To: media_monitor5@yahoogroups.com; "TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com"
<thebecoming@yahoogroups.com>; "issuesonline worldwide@yahoogroups.com"
<issuesonline_worldwide@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 21 February 2013 11:34 AM
Subject: RE: [media_monitor5] [TheBecoming] Hinduism – Religion or Dharma?


 
It appears that your description of religion is based on these Abrahamic
religions;the fact is that Christianity and Islam are not religions but cults
even though they call it as religion. Dharma is a way of life which includes
religion.
 
V.S.Sardesai

--- On Wed, 20/2/13, Tilak Shrestha <tilakbs@...> wrote:


>From: Tilak Shrestha <tilakbs@...>
>Subject: RE: [media_monitor5] [TheBecoming] Hinduism – Religion or Dharma? [1
Attachment]
>To: "media_monitor5@yahoogroups.com" <media_monitor5@yahoogroups.com>,
"TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com" <thebecoming@yahoogroups.com>, "issuesonline
worldwide@yahoogroups.com" <issuesonline_worldwide@yahoogroups.com>
>Date: Wednesday, 20 February, 2013, 11:10 PM
>
>
> 
>Kumar Jee
>Namaste!
>Please do read the posting carefully before opining. Otherwise, you did not
understand what I wrote. The whole point is, 'Dharma is not religion.' Dharma is
like joining school. Religion is like joining army. Please read my earlier
posting carefully twice. In case you miss it first time. Let me attach an
article on the issue AGAIN.
>Tilak
>
>
>
>________________________________
> To: media_monitor5@yahoogroups.com; thebecoming@yahoogroups.com;
issuesonline_worldwide@yahoogroups.com
>From: kumar_8134@...
>Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 07:35:18 -0800
>Subject: Re: [media_monitor5] [TheBecoming] Hinduism – Religion or Dharma?
>
> 
>
>
>>>Religion is like joining an army. Once you join, you loose your
individuality, must believe and do whatever been told. It always looks own
members as brothers, and others as enemies. Only your religion is true, all
others are evil. Such doctrines and practices always leads to violence. >>
> 
>I beg to differ. Following a religion or faith, one does not lose his
individuality, and need not follow the edicts told to you (esp. Hindu-s who are
free to follow the entire sprectrum of aetheism to full time piety and prayers),
and no Hindu thinks followers of other faiths as nemies!! Otherwise the Arab
traders would not have been welcomed in Kodungalloor in Kerala and given land
and funds to build a mosque nor the Christian Missionaries welcomed and allowed
to propogate the faith by the King Zamorin of Calicut(Kozhikode) by providing
all facilities?
> 
>Hinduism never attacked other faiths or invaded any Country or grabbed the
wealth and women of others. Hindu-s have only acted defensively when attacked to
the breaking point and even then pardoned the attackers repeatedly until they
were killed()Prithivraj Chauhan)
>
>
>From: Tilak Shrestha <tilakbs@...>
>To: "TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com" <thebecoming@yahoogroups.com>;
"media_monitor5@yahoogroups.com" <media_monitor5@yahoogroups.com>; "issuesonline
worldwide@yahoogroups.com" <issuesonline_worldwide@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 8:21 PM
>Subject: RE: [media_monitor5] [TheBecoming] Hinduism – Religion or Dharma?
>
> 
>Sardesai Jee Namaste! India and all over the world. Do not take my word for it.
Ask any member of any Sampradaya and any religion, "Do you claim that only yours
is true and others are wrong?" Let them answer. Tilak
>To: media_monitor5@yahoogroups.com; thebecoming@yahoogroups.com;
issuesonline_worldwide@yahoogroups.com From: vasant_sardesai@... Date:
Wed, 20 Feb 2013 14:46:42 +0800 Subject: RE: [media_monitor5] [TheBecoming]
Hinduism – Religion or Dharma?  
>Where do you find the difference between Sampradaya and religion as shown by
you?
> 
>V.S.Sardesai --- On Tue, 19/2/13, Tilak Shrestha <tilakbs@...> wrote:
>
>>From: Tilak Shrestha <tilakbs@...>
>>Subject: RE: [media_monitor5] [TheBecoming] Hinduism – Religion or Dharma?
>>To: "media_monitor5@yahoogroups.com" <media_monitor5@yahoogroups.com>,
"TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com" <thebecoming@yahoogroups.com>, "issuesonline
worldwide@yahoogroups.com" <issuesonline_worldwide@yahoogroups.com>
>>Date: Tuesday, 19 February, 2013, 9:09 PM
>>
>>
>> 
>>Dear all: Namaste! Sampradaya and religion are not same. Similarity is only
superficial.  Sampradaya is like joining a social organization. It has certain
philosophy, practices, and culture. However, it is neither militant nor condemns
others. Religion is like joining an army. Once you join, you loose your
individuality, must believe and do whatever been told. It always looks own
members as brothers, and others as enemies. Only your religion is true, all
others are evil. Such doctrines and practices always leads to violence. The root
of Sampradaya is Dharma or a way of inner progress. Gurus are there to teach
what they know. The root of Religion is tribal survival and conquest by
militarizing society. Moses or Muhammad are for political command and control of
Jews and Muslims. They are not there teaching any spiritual values. Do you know
any? Thanks, Tilak
>>To: TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com; media_monitor5@yahoogroups.com;
issuesonline_worldwide@yahoogroups.com From: kumar_8134@... Date: Tue, 19
Feb 2013 05:23:20 -0800 Subject: [media_monitor5] Re: [TheBecoming] Fw: Hinduism
– Religion or Dharma? 
>>1. Sampradaya in Sanskrit means what had been advised by (Sadupadesa or good
advice) a Guru to the follower orally.
>>"Vardhanam Chhedanedha Dwey Aanandanasabhajaney
>> Aapracchanadhey Mnaaya:Sampradaya: kshayey kshiya" Amarakosa Thritheeya
Kanda- Sankeernavarga:
>> 
>>Sampradaya literally means tradition followed by generation afetr generation,
transferred orally.
>> 
>>On the other hand, Matha: means doctrine, opinion or view which is closer to
religion as used to refer Hindumatha!..etc.
>> 
>>2. Dharma means established order, usage, custom prescription,, rule, duty,
virtue, moral, merit, good works, virtue, right, justice, law,..etc. e.g.
Yamadharma means Judge of the dead and Prajapati
>>From: Deen Khandelwal <Ddk1007@...>
>>To: "TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com" <TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com>
>>Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 9:16 PM
>>Subject: Re: [TheBecoming] Fw: Hinduism – Religion or Dharma?
>>
>> 
>>Here are a few comments as I understand.
>>1.    Right translation of word religion in Hindi is sampradaaya.
>>2.    Two meanings of word dharma can help a lot in understanding Hinduism.
 Duty and nature.  Both are eternal. Thus Hinduism is eternal, not other
religions.
>>3.    Religion is a path that you choose or you design for yourself for your
spiritual goals or for intensifying your relationship with the divine/god. Sent
from my iPad
>>On Feb 15, 2013, at 2:15 PM, MOHAN DADLANI <mohandadlani@...> wrote:
>> 
>>>Dharma is a part of a religion
>>>Religion includes philosophy, mythology and rituals etc
>>>Religion is like an ocean. Dharma is an essential aspect.
>>>Regards
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>
>>>From: Ram Angod
>>>Sent: 15 Feb 2013 15:00:13 GMT
>>>To: TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com
>>>Subject: Re: [TheBecoming] Fw: Hinduism – Religion or Dharma?
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>It boggles my mind to think that this confusion with translation persevered
in India for over 150 years and there has been no serious attempt to fix it,
considering the difference is as big as between a cow and a chicken! What other
mega idealogical delusions have we acquiesced to over this same period?
>>>On 2013-02-14, at 9:22 PM, Leena Mehendale wrote:
>>> 
>>>>It is understood by some that DHARMA is not the proper translation of
RELIGION and vice-versa. However this translation has been in vogue since nearly
150 years -- eversince the British came here  and established the RULE OF
ENGLISH over our minds.Now most COMMON PEOPLE understand the two words as
SYNONYMOUS. Words have a very powerful methodology of creating MENTAL ATTITUDES.
>>>> Hence, unless we COIN a new word in Hindi for RELIGION and a new word in
English for DHARMA, people will continue to treat these two words as a
translation of each other and the di-harmony and confusion coming out from this
inapt translation will continue. 
>>>>On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 11:25 AM, vavamenon <vavamenon@...> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>--- On Wed, 3/11/09, vavamenon <vavamenon@...> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>From: vavamenon <vavamenon@...>
>>>>>>>Subject: Re: [VRI] Hinduism – Religion or Dharma?
>>>>>>>To: vedic_research_institute@yahoogroups.com,
hinduism_environment@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>Date: Wednesday, March 11, 2009, 4:29 PM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The following comparisin between DHARMA AND RELIGIONS would be apt in
this regard :
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>   Dharma Religion
>>>>>>>1  It was/is determined by the Creator.   It is founded by a human being.
>>>>>2 It is eternal. It has no beginning and no end too. We cannot live without
it. It was born on a certain date. What takes birth must die too, and hence, it
will not exist for ever. We lived without it and we shall again live without it.
>>>>>3  It doesn't go through any modification/ revision.  It needs to be
modified with the passage of time.
>>>>>4 It is applicable to all human beings irrespective of their gender, color,
culture, national origin, etc. It favors none. Every human being has fundamental
right to heed and follow it.  It originates from a mortal human being, and
therefore, it's likely to be preferential to a section of the human population.
It may have discriminatory clauses.
>>>>>5 The world is dependent on it like it depends on the sun, air, water, etc.
It is as basic as anything we can imagine. The day dharma vanishes from the
world, the world will vanish too. Dharanat iti dharmah, i.e. dharma holds the
creation, the creator being the Dharmaraja. It is a fabrication of a mortal
human being who is not likely to be all-knowing and as benevolent as the Cosmic
Spirit is. It can certainly not be a basic thing because the humanity managed
without it before it came into being.
>>>>>6 It is so natural that a few wise people can sit together to discuss and
search in their conscience what our dharma is. It requires an extraneous
authority for its determination.
>>>>>7 It has universal acceptance. It can never have universal acceptance.
>>>>>8 It has nothing that contradicts the laws of nature because the dharma and
the laws of nature originate from the same source, the creator. It often
contradicts the laws of the nature.
>>>>>9  Its purpose is to guide the humanity towards righteousness for our
overall personal and collective good.  Its purpose may be the selfish interest
of an individual or a group of individuals.
>>>>>10  It brings universal love, brotherhood and peace among the entire
humanity as parents desire in their family.  It often causes conflicts and
strife leading to wars among followers of different religions.
>>>>>11  It can be understood by an intelligent person through his/her
intellectual faculties. It discourages us to use our intellectual faculties. It
requires blind faith in a human being.
>>>>>12  It appeals to the natural human compassion and love. It may give rise
to hatred among its followers towards the followers of other religions.
>>>>>13 It encourages us to know and understand the Cosmic Spirit and to be in
communion with Him directly.  It gives importance to a human being, past or
present and positions that man between us and the Cosmic Spirit. Thus, it
creates an artificial distance between 'me and God.'
>>>>>14 One is encouraged to maintain pure innocence to see and enjoy every
event as a miracle, such as a bud blossoming into a flower.  It brings in false
concepts of miracles and thereby snatches away our pure innocence, encouraging
irrationality, blind faith, conceit and hypocrisy.
>>>>>15 There is considerable individual freedom for personal growth provided it
doesn't hurt others.  There is no freedom because there is fear that an
individual may become equal or even superior to the person who founded that
religion.
>>>>>16 One can follow dharma anytime, anywhere at any age.  One must go through
certain rituals to be initiated into a religion. There may not be an appropriate
guideline applicable to every place and at all times.
>>>>>17 If dharma sees its decline then … …..religions flourish and create
havoc for the noble people.
>>>>>18 Dharmais one and only one. Religions are many.
>>>>>19 Dharmagives rise to higher moral and intellectual stature.  Religions
may cause decay in moral and intellectual stature.
>>>>>20 Dharmais a unifying force towards a global village of the entire
humanity.  Religions are divisive that the entire earth can become a
battlefield.
>>>>> 
>>>>>This comparison chart is saved from some mail I received.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>anilbhanot <abhanot@...> wrote:
>>>>>Dr Raj Pandit Sharma ji
>>>>> 
>>>>>Brilliant as ever! Thank you for that explanantion and analysis. I did
suspect that the 3 not included would be covered by the 10 which you have
pointed out so correctly.
>>>>> 
>>>>>It is not that the 3 kaxan were not there in Dharma but the sub-laxan's 3
are merely in religion. The article was wrong to suggest that Manu did not
include them in Dharma.
>>>>> 
>>>>>anil bhanot
>>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>>From:Dr Sharma
>>>>>To:'anilbhanot' ; 'ramans shriman' ; 'pratinidhi sabha' ; 'Swami Agnivesh'
; 'photografics bhatia' ; 'Anand Kumar Arya Bangal' ; 'arun soni' ; 'arya
samajon,ine'
>>>>>Cc:aaam@... ; adkum35@... ; akshaykapoor1973@...
; akv@... ; amarerry@... ; amorsty@... ; anil@...
; animalahimsa@... ; arun1@... ; aryagan@... ;
aryaguyana@... ; aryasamaj@... ; aryasamaj@... ;
aryasamajlondon@... ; aryavrt39@... ; aryayouth@... ;
aryayouthgroup@yahoogroups.com ; asharanirai@... ; asoni@... ; 'ajay
arya' ; 'arya veer' ; 'Ashwini' ; 'Delhi Sabha' ; 'Dr. Ashok Arua' ;
bhaktivedanta.manor@... ; Unitedhindufront@googlegroups.com
>>>>>Sent:Tuesday, February 05, 2008 10:48 PM
>>>>>Subject:RE: dharma vs religions
>>>>> 
>>>>>Namaskar
>>>>> 
>>>>>Anil ji the ten attributes (lakshan) of Dharma are described in this verse
from the Smriti
>>>>> 
>>>>>“dhriti kshama damo stute yai shaucamindri nigrah
>>>>>dhividya satyakrodho dashakam dharma lakshanam”
>>>>> 
>>>>>1.  Dhriti-patience, tolerance
>>>>>2.  Kshama-forgiveness
>>>>>3.  Dama-self control
>>>>>4.  Asteya non-stealing, honesty integrity
>>>>>5.  Shaucha-cleanliness and purity
>>>>>6.  Indriya-nigrah-restraint over the senses
>>>>>7.Dhi-wisdom
>>>>>8.  Vidya-knowledge
>>>>>9.  Satya-truth
>>>>>10.  Akrodha-calmness, equanimity, non anger
>>>>> 
>>>>>I understand that there is an implicit indication from these ten attributes
that ahinsa, prem (love) and Shanti (peace and tranquillity) are included.
>>>>> 
>>>>>“Ahinsa” is often misunderstood in Sanatan Dharma and I would like to
offer my analysis.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ahinsa is a Sanskrit term and concept, which is central to Sanatana
Dharma. Now the etymology:
>>>>>
>>>>>ahinsA = a + hinsaa
>>>>>a = Not or non-,
>>>>>hinsaa = MALICIOUS violence.
>>>>>
>>>>>It is NOT just violence.
>>>>>
>>>>>For example, a Peregrine Falcon swooping on a field rabbit or a bird
carrying a worm to its nest to feed its children most certainly constitutes
violence. However, it does NOT constitute hinsaa.
>>>>>
>>>>>Malice or malice aforethought is an essential ingredient of hinsaa. Thus,
an action may itself be violent, but when necessary and carried out with total
detachment it does not contravene dharma.
>>>>>
>>>>>This is the concept enshrined as 'mens rae ' in the British justice system.
To qualify as murder, not only the killing has to be established but also a
deliberate intent to kill must be established.
>>>>> 
>>>>>"hinsA" or violence, injury, harm etc. is categorised in three ways,
>>>>>
>>>>>1. Mansik (mental) as `" bearing malice” (mens rea-guilty mind)
>>>>>2. Vaachik (verbal), as "abusive language"
>>>>>3. Karmik, (actual) as `" acts of violence”
>>>>>
>>>>>That is why it is important to realise that 'ahinsA' does not equate to
"non-violence" or inaction, just as 'dharma' does not equate to 'religion'.
>>>>> 
>>>>>Derivation of 'hinsA in my humble opinion is from the Sanskrit verb 'hins'
meaning to "injure, kill or harm,” e.g. hinsati-he injures. In the itihaas
such as Mahabharata, it appears as 'hinasti', which may be interpreted as "to
degrade.”
>>>>> 
>>>>>Prem (love) emanates from tolerance and forgiveness, which are two of the
lakshan described by Manuji and shanti or peace will come if one observes all
the attributes of Dharma.
>>>>> 
>>>>>What the author of the article has failed to recognise is that just as all
other colours are derived from the primary colours, similarly these ten
attributes are the building blocks of all Dharma and all other qualities will
arise (such as love, compassion, peace etc.) by following Dharma.
>>>>> 
>>>>>The other religions have not invented these basic parameters, they simply
revamp them and present them to unwitting followers as something new, whereas in
reality they are the original tenets of Dharma laid down by aadi Manu.
>>>>> 
>>>>>Raj Pandit Sharma
>>>>>--- On Wed, 3/11/09, mega_irreverant-he@...
<mega_irreverant-he@...> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>From: mega_irreverant-he@... <mega_irreverant-he@...>
>>>>>>Subject: [VRI] Hinduism – Religion or Dharma?
>>>>>>To: vedic_research_institute@yahoogroups.com,
hinduism_environment@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>Date: Wednesday, March 11, 2009, 2:31 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hinduism – Religion or Dharma? 01/03/2009 11:06:04 By Sunil Tuppale
Growing up in Bharat, I have heard people proclaiming out time and again that
“All Religions are the same and they teach the same thing”. Elders,
teachers, great men of Bharat, leaders and intellectuals, all of them have been
drumming the same tone. Naturally I believed in it till I could think for
myself. I have seen that it is only in Bharat one hears the above expression. I
have lived in the West for quite some time and I must say I haven’t seen any
staunch Christian say the same. I have seen that practicing Christians believe
that they alone are right in their beliefs and everyone else who is not a
Christian have no chance of being saved. The same goes for Muslims. I have some
Muslim friends who are pious and committed to Islam. But they are sincere in
their belief that they alone are the chosen people and that they have the last
word on Religion, Truth, God and that
  all non-Muslims are doomed. It made me wonder why are Hindus so keen on
speaking for the other religions? I have heard Hindus eagerly quote the mantra
from the Rig Veda “Ekam sad vipra bahudha vadanti” to mean that truth is one
and that truth is called as Allah or Jesus by different religions. They don’t
quote the entire mantra. They quote only a fourth of the mantra. The entire
mantra is Indram mitram varunam agnim ahuhu atho divya sa suparno garutman ekam
sad vipra bahudha vadanti agnim yamam matarisvanam ahuhu (Rigveda 1.164.46)
‘They hail him as Indra, Mitra, Varuna, Agni or the Divine Garuda. Truth is
one and the Wise ones refer to the truth by different names as Agni, Yama, and
Matarisvan.’ To use this verse to say that all religions are the same is a
blatant misuse of the profound verse. To say all religions are the same, one
must have studied deeply all the different religions. I have seen that people
who claim that all religions are
  the same have rarely studied other religions. They are just parroting that
statement they heard from someone and it is not a conclusion that they arrived
at by their own study, understanding and conviction. Also I wish to raise a
fundamental question.Is Hinduism also a religion like Christianity and Islam?
Why should we consider religions on par with Hinduism? Before I begin, I want to
decipher the word religion. A word means one thing in one part of the world
whereas in another part of the world, the same word means something totally
different. Take the instance of the word secularism. In the West it means the
separation of the Church and the State. Where as in Bharat, the definition of
secularism is "Sarva Dharma Sama Bhava" which means all religions will be
considered equal and given equal preference. Thus the meaning of secularism is
totally distorted in Bharat. And particularly secularism in the current context
implies animosity towards anything
  Hindu. What does the word religion connote in the Western world? It connotes
that a religion should be monotheistic. In other words they should believe in
One God. It should have a Prophet and that Prophet is reckoned to have been the
person who started the religion at a particular point in history. So the three
main religions we have are Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Of course there are
other religions like Zoroastrianism, Shintoism, Bahai and so on. But for the
purpose of this discussion let us consider the Monotheistic religions,
particularly Christianity and Islam because they are the only two religions
aggressively competing for converts among the entire humanity. The rest of the
religions are non converting and therefore non aggressive and non invasive.
Judaism is a non converting religion. In other words, you can’t convert to
become a Jew. Either you are born a Jew or you are not a Jew. But Christianity
and Islam thrive on conversion. In
  fact they feel that if they don’t convert, their statuses are in peril. So
they have perfected the art of conversion. Another feature of the monotheistic
religions is that they all believe that this One God, who they claim created the
world, is located up in Heaven. And all the monotheistic religions have a ‘Day
of Judgment’. In case of Christianity and Islam in particular, the theology is
imposed so strongly that people are told that if one doesn’t accept their
doctrines, one would have to be punished with eternal damnation or hell fire and
all believers of the respective doctrines would go to Heaven and stay with God
forever. That is what is meant by the word Salvation. They all believe in one
birth and you have to proclaim your faith and adherence to the particular
doctrines of your faith in this birth or you will burn in the eternal pit fire
of hell. And there is no chance of  redemption. In the East, the word religion
has a different sense
  all together. We call it Dharma. There is no English equivalent for the word
Dharma. It is loosely translated as religion. But it is definitely not religion
in the Western sense. Hinduism is Sanatana Dharma. Sanatana means timeless.
Meaning there was never a time when it was not. Dharma is a profound word. It is
also called Vaidika Dharma because it is based on the Vedas. The
Vyakhya(elaboration ) of Dharma is “Dharyate iti Dharma”. That which upholds
everything is Dharma. There is a Cosmic order in the Universe. That order is
manifest as everything in this Universe. That which holds this vast and
wonderful universe with all its millions of stars, galaxies, planets with all
the things and beings in harmony is this Rita, the Cosmic order. The Cosmic
order includes the Physical, Physiological, Psychological and Spiritual order.
All these are the manifestations of Bhagavan. For Hindus, Bhagavan (The Lord) is
present in the form of the Cosmic order. In
  fact Bhagavan is never separate from this Universe. The Shastras (scriptures)
say that all that is here is Bhagavan.“Isavasyam idam sarvam” meaning
Bhagavan pervades everything like Akasha (space). Nothing is separate from
Akasha. The Creator and the created are non separate like the spider and the
web, like the dreamer and the dream. That which holds this Rita, this cosmic
order is Dharma. So to me, Dharma is a Way of Life, Values of Life and
Expression of Life that is in keeping with the Vision and understanding of
Isavasyam idam sarvam. Being committed to Dharma means having this grand vision
of life that all that is there IS Bhagavan and expressing that vision and
understanding through our thoughts, words and deeds. That in essence constitutes
a Dharmic life. A Dharmic person never goes against the Natural Cosmic Order.
Why? Because if I rub against the order, I will get rubbed in the process. If I
hurt somebody, I may get away from man made
  laws because my brother in law is in the Police Department, but I will not be
able to escape from the Cosmic law. It is this sense of Dharma that should be
the basis of all our endeavors. I should not hurt anybody or anything because I
don’t want to be hurt and also by hurting anything or anybody I am hurting
something of which I am a part. I should not steal because I don’t want
anybody to steal from me. The Mahabharatha speaks of a time when Dharma ruled
the world when it says Na Rajyam Naiva Rajasit Na Dando na ca Dandikaha
Dharmenaiva Praja Sarvaha Rakshantisma Parasparam The verse above means that
there was a time long ago where there was no Kingdom nor a King and no
punishments nor a person who would administer punishments. Everybody protected
each other with a sense of Dharma. In other words, Dharma was the protector of
the people. Everybody acted according to Dharma. So that is our notion of
Dharma. Secondly, our Dharma was not founded by an
  individual Prophet like the Monotheistic religions. Bhagavan Krishna or
Bhagavan Rama did not start our Dharma. They were born into our Dharma. They
were born as Vaidikas. I have had a few people in the West ask me when our
‘religion’ started. I would respond to them saying that the question is like
asking “When did Physics start?” Did the laws of Physics start on a
particular day? Isn’t it that the laws of Physics have always been there as
long as this creation has been? Similarly, our Dharma has always been throughout
the myriad cycles of manifestation (Shristi) and dissolution (Pralaya). So it is
not that our Dharma originated at some particular point in History. Hence it is
called Sanatana. It has always been there. It was manifested by Bhagavan at the
time of Shristi and it becomes unmanifest at Pralaya. Thirdly, our concept of
Heaven is not where you go and stay permanently. Our Shastras tell us that
heaven is a temporary place one goes
  to enjoy the fruits of one’s good Karmas (Punyas). It is said “Kshine Punye
Martya Lokam Vishanti”. After ones Punyas are exhausted, one will have to go
back to Martya loka or the earth where one gets another chance to work for
Moksha (liberation from cycle of births and deaths) which is not salvation.
Salvation means you are condemned and then you need to be salvaged. Our
scriptures do not consider us as condemned. It refers to us as “Amritasya
Putraha” meaning immortal children. Moksha is the outcome of Self Knowledge.
Dharma doesn’t divide humanity into believers and infidels as religions do. We
also have amongst us those who are Nastikas. Nastikas are those who don’t
accept the Vedas as a valid means of knowledge. The Nastikas include the Baudhas
(Buddhists), Jainas (Jains) and Charvaks (materialists) . Vaidika Dharma
recognizes that all forms of worship of the Lord to be true as elucidated in the
Rig Vedik Mantra above. Since the Lord
  is not separate from this Universe, we can invoke the lord in any form.
Pushpadantacharya’s Shiva Mahimna Stotram says Ruchinam Vaichitryat Ruju
Kutila Nana Patha Jusha Nrinam Eko Gamya Tvam Asi Paya Samarnavaiva According to
ones disposition, one takes to a form of worship or a path of Sadhana (Spiritual
Practice) which may be direct or meandering and all those paths are valid as
long as they are ultimately the worship of Bhagavan which in turn leads us to
Atma Gyan or Self Knowledge. Bhagavan also says in the Bhagavad Gita “Ye Yatha
Mam Prapadyante, TansThataiva Bhajamyaham” (Ch 4 Verse 11) which means “In
whatever form people worship me, in that form I respond to the devotees and
bless them”. That is why we have so many forms. We can invoke and worship the
lord in whatever form we wish to, according to our taste and disposition. And we
are not idol worshippers as the others like to accuse us. We are Bhagavan
worshippers. We worship Bhagavan
  in the idol. So we have all the different panthas (paths) each specializing in
the worship of Bhagavan in one form or the other. Thus we have the six main
recognized forms of worship according to Bhagavan Bashyakara Acharya Shankara
which includes Shaiva (worshippers of Bhagavan Shiva), Shakta(worshippers of
Bhagavathi or Goddess), Vaishnava (worshippers of Bhagavan Vishnu),
Ganapathya(worshipp ers of Bhagavan Ganapathy), Kaumarya(worshipper s of
BhagavanKarthikeya) and Saurya(worshippers of BhagavanSurya) . Many forms of
worship are of recent origin and we accept them also as long as they lead us to
the Knowledge of the Atma (Self). Above all, Dharma cannot be imposed. It can be
revealed or taught, but never imposed by force. Again, to quote from the
Mahabharatha ‘Dharmasya Tattvam Nihitam Guhayam’ which means the expression
of Dharma comes from within a person. It can never be imposed. Religions are
almost always imposed on people either by lure
  or by force. So when you consider these, it is not difficult to recognize the
profound differences between religions and Dharma. How can we consider Hindu
Dharma as a religion? How can we accept that Dharma and religions are the same?
People who claim that All Religions are same are ignorant of Religions as well
as of Dharma. I would like to say that there may be many religions, but there is
only one Dharma and that is the Sanatana Dharma or Vaidika Dharma or Hindu
Dharma. We are belittling this Dharma by calling it religion or even worse,
calling it faith. Religion when elaborated properly according to the Western
concept turns out to be dogmatic and cannot be accepted as valid or cannot be
compared to Sanatana Hindu Dharma which is vast, profound and timeless.
Acknowledgements “Foundations of Dharma”– Shri Swami Iswarananda Giri
“What is Hinduism?” – Shri Swami Dayananda Saraswathi “Hindu view of
Christianity and Islam” – Shri Ram
  Swarup “Defence of Hindu Soceity” – Shri Sita Ram Goel
http://www.haindavakeralam.com/HkPage.aspx?PAGEID=8285&SKIN=D--
ईशावास्यमिदं सर्वं यत्किंच
जगत्यां जगत्। तेन त्यक्तेन
भुञ्जीथाः मा गृधः
कस्यस्विद्धनम्।। for learning easy HINDI TYPING
click here
>>>>http://bhasha-hindi.blogspot.in/2010/09/blog-post_30.html
>>>>
>>>>Leena Mehendale Member CAT, Mumbai Gulistan Building (LIC) Fort, Mumbai
400001 Ph (off) 022-22072678 Mo. 09869039054
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for all the contacts

Thanks for all the in-depth emails and contacts which came over-night.
It would take an age to reply to them all individually and in detail,
but I have read them all. In the days before computers and the web it
was usual to find at least a dozen letters waiting on the mat when going
downstairs of a morning, and each had to be replied to individually
(enough to give one writers elbow; and it cost enough in postage stamps
too). But when cyberspace came along and the website wet up it was usual
to have between two and three hundred emails every day; and before one
could answer a fraction of them it was the next day, and another great
pile of them waiting (scary). But this of course was never anticipated.
So, it just goes to show something or other.

Just a quick note about psychic experiences here. No, I do not regard
these as rubbish or illusory, for all human experience is real
experience, and most psychic experiences reveal much to us. One even
saved my life once. But they should not be mistaken for mystical
experiences. In simplistic terms Psychic Experiences are about what we
can do and various powers and potentials which we have. But Mystic
experiences are associated with what we are and the essential depth
nature of our being. Transcendent experiences are transcendent of TIME
and SPACE.  ONLY that which comes from Eternity can return to it �
you cannot even take your memories there with you, for they are made in
Time and Space. Nothing constructed in Time and Space can reach
Eternity. One cannot even THINK in the ground of BEING. So it is
Childs-play sorting out the Psychic from the Mystical. We are
constructed of THREE parts, a Trinity of Emanation. The Essential
Consciousness in the Timeless Ground of Being, then comes the Psyche and
Subconscious; and then the third part is the Incarnate Temporal form and
the personality (ego, as some like to call it). And we can and do have
experiences from all three levels of our Being. Some Major ones and many
minor or mini ones. But there is no such thing as a human experiences
which is not a human experience. So, we should STUDY all of our parts,
not just one or two of them. But to go into all this in detail requires
a book; and I have already done that :- )  You cannot get it into a
letter or an email.

As for SYBOLS (which were mentioned) then I have nothing against them,
they can be very useful. I even invented one myself. The Encircled
Saltire Cross. I first saw it on an old stone up on Exmoor (The Culbone
Stone) it is the only one  in the world like it, and nobody knows what
it represents. But I thought it would be ideal as a symbol for the mind
and consciousness of man encapsulating both Time and Eternity. So I got
it put up on the website. (X)

Anyway, tis my wife's birthday today (twenty one again) so I had
best get on with things now. Tis great having five grown up kids though,
for they can do most of the work as the old war horse is getting tired
and weary now. These carcases are only made for a lifetime :- )  Have a
nice day. PS. I have put up what will be my last uTube video. It is
about the harmony of the Observer and the Observed. Show them to your
kids as food  for thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8ox4DBZRUQ
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8ox4DBZRUQ>

Dick Richardson





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pant-ji,
You are looking at the question of identity.
JK is looking at the question of violence and identifies the problem as 'how
large is your identification'.

In chapter three of the Ideal of  Human Unity, Sri Aurobindo examines this
matter:
"In the relations between the individual and the group, this constant tendency
of Nature appears as the strife between two
equally deep-rooted human tendencies, individualism and collectivism. On one
side is the engrossing authority, perfection and
development of the State, on the other the distinctive freedom, perfection and
development of the individual man. The State
idea, the small or the vast living machine, and the human idea, the more and
more distinct and luminous Person, the increasing
God, stand in perpetual opposition. The size of the State makes no difference
to the essence of the struggle and need make none
to its characteristic circumstances. It was the family, the tribe or the city,
the polis; it became the clan, the caste and the class, the
kula, the gens. It is now the nation. Tomorrow or the day after it may be all
mankind. But even then the question will remain
poised between man and humanity, between the self-liberating Person and the
engrossing collectivity.
If we consult only the available facts of history and sociology, we must
suppose that our race began with the all-engrossing
group to which the individual was entirely subservient and that increasing
individuality is a circumstance of human growth, a
fruit of increasing conscious Mind. Originally, we may suppose, man was
altogether gregarious, association his first necessity for
survival; since survival is the first necessity of all being, the
individual could be nothing but an instrument for the strength and
safety of the group, and if we add to strength and safety growth, efficiency,
self-assertion as well as self-preservation, this is still
the dominant idea of all collectivism. This turn is a necessity born of
circumstance and environment. Looking more into fundamental
things we perceive that in Matter uniformity is the sign of the group; free
variation and individual development progress
with the growth of Life and Mind. If then we suppose man to be an evolution of
mental being inMatter and out of Matter, we
must assume that he begins with uniformity and subservience of the individual
and proceeds towards variety and freedom of
the individual. The necessity of circumstance and environment and the
inevitable law of his fundamental principles of being
would then point to the same conclusion, the same process of his historic and
prehistoric evolution."
 
Gulati


________________________________
  From: JAGDISH CHANDRA PANT <jcpant.reacha@...>
To: TheBecoming@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 15 February 2013 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: [TheBecoming] Fw: violence: j krishnamurthy


 
Gulati ji,
     Does an effort to know your roots or search for one's identity or even
the question 'who am I?' amount to initiating a thinking of violence? Perhaps,
the motive for this search may be of relevance!! Regards.
 JC Pant


On 15 February 2013 10:30, devindersingh gulati <dgulhati@...> wrote:


>
> 
>Gulati
>
>----- Forwarded Message -----
>From: surekha bhanot <surekha0057@...>
>To: surekha bhanot <surekha0057@...>; Allan Stocker
<stillsongs@...>
>Sent: Wednesday, 13 February 2013 7:39 PM
>Subject: violence: j krishnamurthy
>
>
>
>
>
>--
>
>Prof. Surekha Bhanot
>Instrumentation Group
>BITS Pilani
>Pilani(Raj)  333031  India
>01596-242227(R) / 515307 (O),245073 ext 307 (O)/
>
> 
>Joy is the infallible sign of the presence of God.
>Leon Bloy
> 
>  
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Anonymous January 14, 2013 at 5:02 PM
"For the actions we take to survive are simply not compatible with the belief
that nothing matters."

Only the absurd man is free
The absurd man revolt is not a revolt of belief or questions that "nothing
matters" only that he cannot know.
The absurd man is awake to the moment and does not appeal to the past or the
future, (regret or hope) and in revolt refuses to equate any moment to meaning.
If the moment brings satisfaction or dissatisfaction that is enough, any
attachment to the moment would be a surrender of the revolt to regret, hope and
meaning.
The Absurd man is awake to the moment and does not attach himself to his
limitations or capacities which are beyond him.
The absurd man lives his life because it is his life.
The absurd man does not identify with the ego nor does he negate it.
The absurd man lives his life because it is his life.

The Absurd � is to be awakened:
Hope is a fixation on a future
Regret a fixated on past hope
Reason ends in paradox and requires a leap
Theology ends in paradox and requires a leap
Every leap is a suicide
Expectation that the leap ends in a safe landing on firm ground is an illusion
The leap is always into empty space, we are always falling.
We are falling
The Absurd holds the tension of the fall without hope, regret or meaning
We fall
In the revolt of that awakening the absurd man realises every moment of the
fall.
This is freedom, a free fall, and it is enough.

A belief that nothing matters is as absurd as a belief that everything matters
but that is not were an absurd man stands. The absurd man does not stand but
falls.

http://whoistheabsurdman.blogspot.com/2012/03/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-fish.ht\
ml#comment-form

> Thanks for all the contacts

Spam counts as "contacts" now? Whatever makes you feel important...


> As for SYBOLS ... can be very useful.
> I even invented one myself. The Encircled
> Saltire Cross. I first saw it on ...
> The Culbone Stone

So, are you saying you predate the Culbone Stone and that you etched the rock,
or are you suggesting that because you decided to copy the symbol you somehow
"created" a symbol?

You are such a lunatic.

I thought you promised to leave the list or die or both.


Still Waiting

We have two  interlopers here,now. Neither have anything to do with
existentialism. I suspect Bookdoc wrote or sponsered the post from Exislist
about the absurd man. I liked it  and would ask the author his thoughts on
Camus.
When the gurus  tire of writing here Some existentialists might return. That 
fictive parrot still contributes  is a very positive sign. I think  it is
proposed that Trinidad  was the spouse of  another pivotal writer. I did not
know that  but if I remember correctly Bookdoc  had some hard battles with 
Trinidad. Should he get tired of poking Dick  I invite Bookdoc to my site,
Neoex. I will let you in and then leave you to  whatever matters you deem
appropriate. Good to hear from you, Bill

...the characteristic mark of the group of philosophers (and mystics)
who are nowadays making a great noise under the name of Existentialists.
The individual personality exists, they say, and its nature is freedom.
In other words, it chooses, as it likes, its course of life, at every
step, and Creates its destiny. This freedom, however, may. lead man and
will inevitably lead him, according to one section of the group, to the
perception and realisation of God, an infinite in which the individual
finite lives and moves and has his being; according to others, the same
may lead to a very different consummation, to Nothingness, the Great
Void, Nihil.  The second alternative seems to be an inevitable corollary
of the particular conception of the individual that is entertained by
some, viz., the individual existing only in relation to individuals.
Indeed the leader of the French school, Jean-Paul Sartre � not a
negligible playwright and novelist � seems to conceive the
individual as nothing more than the image formed in other individuals
with whom he comes in contact. Existence literally means standing out or
outside (ex+sistet), coming out of one-self and living in other's
consciousness � as one sees one's exact image in another's eye. It
is not however the old-world mystic experience of finding one's self in
other selves. For here we have an exclusively level or horizontal view
of the human personality. To be a person, it is said, one must be apart
from the crowd. A person is the "single one", one who has attained his
singularity, his individual wholeness. And the life's work for each
individual person is to make the crowd no longer a crowd, but an
association of single ones. But how can this be done? It is not simply
by separating oneself from the crowd, by dwelling upon oneself that one
can develop into one's true person. The individuals, even when perfect
single ones, do not exist by themselves or in and through one another.
The mystic or spiritual perception posits the Spirit or God, the
All-self as the background and substance of all the selves. Indeed, it
is only when one finds and is identified with the Divine in oneself that
one is in a position to attain one's true selfhood and find oneself in
other
selves.http://sriaurobindoashram.com/Content.aspx?ContentURL=_StaticCont\
ent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-03%20Disciples/Nolini%20Kanta%20\
Gupta/Volume-1/-62_The%20Sanctity%20of%20the%20Individual.html--- In
existlist@yahoogroups.com, "existlist" <hermitcrab65@...> wrote:
>
> Anonymous January 14, 2013 at 5:02 PM
> "For the actions we take to survive are simply not compatible with the
belief that nothing matters."
>
> Only the absurd man is free
> The absurd man revolt is not a revolt of belief or questions that
"nothing matters" only that he cannot know.
> The absurd man is awake to the moment and does not appeal to the past
or the future, (regret or hope) and in revolt refuses to equate any
moment to meaning.
> If the moment brings satisfaction or dissatisfaction that is enough,
any attachment to the moment would be a surrender of the revolt to
regret, hope and meaning.
> The Absurd man is awake to the moment and does not attach himself to
his limitations or capacities which are beyond him.
> The absurd man lives his life because it is his life.
> The absurd man does not identify with the ego nor does he negate it.
> The absurd man lives his life because it is his life.
>
> The Absurd � is to be awakened:
> Hope is a fixation on a future
> Regret a fixated on past hope
> Reason ends in paradox and requires a leap
> Theology ends in paradox and requires a leap
> Every leap is a suicide
> Expectation that the leap ends in a safe landing on firm ground is an
illusion
> The leap is always into empty space, we are always falling.
> We are falling
> The Absurd holds the tension of the fall without hope, regret or
meaning
> We fall
> In the revolt of that awakening the absurd man realises every moment
of the fall.
> This is freedom, a free fall, and it is enough.
>
> A belief that nothing matters is as absurd as a belief that everything
matters but that is not were an absurd man stands. The absurd man does
not stand but falls.
>
>
http://whoistheabsurdman.blogspot.com/2012/03/so-long-and-thanks-for-all\
-fish.html#comment-form
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ref Videos

[ Very thought provoking and unique videos and a nice final one to the
series (if it does turn out to be the final one)! Well the truth should
be unique, yet universal should it not?  Nadeem. ]

Glad you liked the video's Nadeem. I have enjoyed watching uTube
video's over the years. Some folks have the art of combining nice
music with pleasant pictures, but I had no idea how to do it and making
one never even occurred to me. But somebody mentioned that the program
for making them should be on the computer anyway, but it wasn't. So
I downloaded it and had a go at one. I made one the same day (my
favourite one) of Exmoor (my favourite place) put to my favourite music.
Why not combine one's own two favourite things into one package. If
others like it then fine, and if they don't then fine. But I made it
for me. But it also advertises the place and the music.  But as for
anything else then uTube videos are not the best means of saying
something; books and websites are the best way. How long would it take
to get one page of writing on a video? :- )

I don't see being universal as being a criteria of a truth. It is
true that it is not raining here at the moment but it might be ten miles
away. So a truth could also be a one-off isolated thing and which lasts
for only a few seconds. Anything which ever happens  truly happened. And
anything which never happens truly never happens. Some folks seem to
have a big problem with `truth' don't they. I wonder why.
But there are plainly things which happen which are very common indeed.
I suppose a universal truth would be something which always happens
everywhere and every when. But I am not in a position to know about that
for I have not been everywhere every when :- ) I imagine that would get
rather tedious and the novelty would soon die off :- )) I sure would not
like to spend every when stuck in my favourite place listening to my
favourite music. Variety is the spice of life. Well, it is for me
anyway. I like the sunshine and I like the rain, and I like the wind and
I like the fog, but I would not want any ONE of them all the time. And,
you know, we only ever live one day once. And that is fine by me, and
come rain or come shine. Don't think I will do any more videos
however. That short sojourn was ample enough.

Dick Richardson







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My Dear Pat, Namaste.

 

(The Story of Second Titanic)

 

I
am reminded of a joke when one talks about Kishore Mahbubani*s recognition of
western worth in such terms as *Seven Pillars of Western Wisdom* (viz.
Free-market economics, Science and Technology, Meritocracy, Pragmatism, Culture
of Peace, Rule of Law, Education).

 

The
joke is this. You (a woman) meet somebody (another woman) for whom you develop
soon a liking for reasons unknown to you and inquire of her some personal
details. Your fondness for this person ascends as you listen to attractive
self-descriptions whose plausibility you have already assumed. How nice it was
to know that this potential friend was an artist, a singer, an engineer, a
social worker and so on! However, she would like to whisper the last point about
her into your ear, feeling a bit coy over the fact that you wouldn*t probably
like the last characteristic. And she finally tells you that she is in the grip
of the habit of lying!!

 

Naturally,
you would now be ashamed of your altruism of believing the woman as this moral
retrogression was enough to annul all of her purported positive features. The
last personal feature whispered into your ears is indeed the *absolute
retrograde*.


 

Similarly,
what if one or more Kishorean Pillars of purported Western Wisdom happens to be
a socio-culture retrograde? An absolute socio-cultural retrograde?

 

If
you take a close look at these seven pillars of wisdom, you find each one of
them
to be a composite agent of civilization, not a singular/ elementary one. These
composites could be riddled with deficiency and redundancy.

 

For
example, free market economics can not be deemed to be benign at all if it is
to implicitly acknowledge the in-built vice of encouraging unlimited
superfluity of choices about the most redundant material requirement - at the
cost of longevity of our planet (that is being deemed to cradle the peak
evolution of universe).

 

Science
and technology isn*t a lay option available unconditionally without a
socio-cultural prelude and moral-instinctive pre-condition.

 

An
inadequately conceived meritocracy runs the risk of being overwhelmed by
snobbish vagary of education.

 

Pragmatism
contaminated with conceit could, if not rectified in time, turn into virtual
cannibalism at some stage.

 

Rule
of law could turn into a piece of deceptive rhetoric if promulgation of law as
an integral part of national sovereignty was to be devoid of the concern of
nationalizing wisdom and jurisprudence.

 

Culture
of peace could be a redundantly altruist notion if it doesn*t consider any
objective higher than mere peaceful coexistence.

 

These
seven composite agents of civilization need to be resolved into their
elementary components firstly and then, the retrograde components must be
isolated and quarantined as germs of apocalypse. The identities of individual
agents need to be expressed as permutation-combination of their elements and
any agent with in-built retrograde element is to be stricken off.  

 

How
many of these purported pillars of western wisdom will survive this ingenious
intellectual operation to assign a semblance of dignity and ascribe a semblance
of superiority to US/ West? In other words, Kishore needs to brace up to clear
own vision. Because this intellectual exercise will also clarify if
Kishore-perceived
American-Western wisdom and image is indeed positive or is mostly mistaken. He
could have mistaken imposed dignity and brute superiority for proof of wisdom
abstract.

 

Kishore*s  perception of the East is also equally
indiscriminate and lopsided. Take the two prominent corners of Eastern
Hemisphere viz. China and India. He appears to have reckoned both equal with
respect to respective march to modernity, weltanschauug (worldview), actual
self-worth, implementation of personal freedom, capacity to embrace the West
and multitude of aspects of civilization Kishore Mahbubani so ornately spells.
He couldn*t be more wrong.

 

How
can he be expected to be even marginally right in this comparative study if he
doesn*t have and doesn*t look for the cardinal/ absolute index of society/
culture/ civilization? The easiest and the best one probably is the index of
crime/ immorality. Has he ever put India on crime/ immorality scale? Has he
ever witnessed/ imagined the ghastliness of the actual Indian social scenario?
Or, has he again made the mistake of seeing through the warped American eye
that may discount million socio-cultural deaths of another country (third-word
country) to capitalize on few conducive/ selected politicizable cases of
purported/ fictitious *human right violation* underscoring a lopsided sense of
morality
and justice?

 

Kishore
commits the double-fault of overestimating classical West/ US and Modern India,
the two chameleons. This makes his international perspective deficient.

 

We
do appreciate his surmises about the foreseeable fall of American
pseudo-modernism and rise of Asia. But the story that will unfold to vindicate
Kishore*s surmises is different from the details he conjures up. It is the story
of the great triangle whose vertices represent centers of global civilization
of past, present and future.

 

The
past had witnessed the greatest socio-cultural polarization in the Eastern
Hemisphere,
in India. The present age is still witnessing the highest global polarization
in the Western Hemisphere, in US/ West. This flight of global center from East
to West depicted the rise of the West and the decline of the East.

 

The
East-to-West flight of global socio-cultural center is about to be reversed in
near future. Kishore*s words seems to be prophetic up to this point. But what
he has to see further is that the West-to-East flight of global socio-cultural
polarity
would be consummated in China. And the credit for this historic phenomenon
would go exclusively to China.

 

That
is not all. The saddest part of the futuristic story is that the Titanic will
sink prior to this stretch of evolution of history, if an averting magic
doesn*t occur. The doomed ship is India, the second Titanic. And this Titanic,
even as she arrives at the bottom of the ocean, will still have in her coffers
the heart (the metaphor to mean genes) of the planet.

 

How
would India be so doomed? - That is because of its neo-Indian navigators who
still
think the clean-and-crystalline heaven (iceberg) visible ahead is the
destination.  

 

How
would China be rewarded with such a global glory? - That is because she is the
heir
apparent to pan-Indian socio-cultural legacy, erstwhile global essence, because
she is thus the inheritor of feline human genes. To realize this, you have to
look into the transcendental theory of evolution that puts civilization as
function
of national genes and that puts national genes as function of metaphysical
movements. The time-bomb of Buddhist metaphysics have been ticking to
conflagrate as the winner genes later in China.

 

What
is that actual tipping national characteristic that would give China an edge
over US/ West. It is progressive incorporation of higher democracy into
national constitution. Protraction of disproportionate/ unlimited econo-social
security is taking epidemic form to gnaw away Western Democracy, the iceberg
that India wishes to harvest a destination from.

 

Is
Chinese success really so succinct? - No. It isn*t. It is about to be on the
crossroad where it will meet the fatal contingency of choosing between the
Kishore Mahbubani-spelt sevel pillars of western wisdom with in-built
retrogrades and civil democracy projected by the theory of absolute polity.




(Bhanu Padmo)

http://www.bhanupadmo.com


You
may reply this thread upon http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/greenlogic/ 
as well

or consign a copy to greenlogic@...   for extended discussions.



--- On Mon, 2/18/13, Pat Louise Davies <pld@...> wrote:

From: Pat Louise Davies <pld@...>
Subject: [Wisdom-l] Bhanu: Kishore Mahbubani ?
To: Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 18, 2013, 7:01 PM
















 












 
 
Hello Bhanu & Friends,
 
Since you and others have some interest in
political philosopy, Bhanu, I am wondering if you are familiar with the writings
of Kishore Mahbubani?  If so, what are your opinions of his ideas?  As
you may know, he was the President of the UN Security Council 2001-02, and UN
Ambassador from Singapore.  He was
born of Indian parents in an impoverished area of Singapore 64 yrs
ago.
 
I heard Kishore speak recently @ Cornell and found
his ideas about the need for world collaboration interesting; I am currently
reading 4 of his books.  In his view, the USA's tendency to stay
stuck focusing on world leadership instead
of supporting world organizations and other means of world collaboration is very
problematic & unfortunate for the USA now, and going forward.
 
Kishore's message at the outset of his Cornell
talk was that there is much pessimism in the West, including Europe,
whereas many Eastern countries are enjoying much rapid successful
economic/cultural development as a result of being influenced by " The 7 Pillars
of Western Wisdom" (his term which includes free market, rule of law, etc...)
and are optimistic;  In his view, the West is currenty moving away from the
7 pillars. 
 
Many points of his Cornell talk are laid out in his
most recent book published in Feb/13.  He discussed the 7 pillars in his 2008
book: The New Asian
Hemisphere.
 
Your thoughts?
 
Thanks ~ Namaste,  Pat Louise
 
____________________________________________________________________
         
                         
            May our efforts benefit

                          
           all beings and the
earth.         

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

(The
Mirror-Metaphor)

 

The
confusion about mirror-analogies may be narrowed down to a tipping point that
would also establish non-duality quite decisively. This tipping point is where
all thinkers of all ages have been tottering. And indeed, this tipping point
beyond which lies the world of non-duality is the seminal mirror-ness, the
maiden mirror-ness. The world of non-duality is reachable only if this maiden
mirror-ness is transcended. Otherwise, not. So, let*s concentrate on the nature
of the tipping point and the slippery approach to it – with the objective of
transcending it.

 

The
tipping point is the epistemic contingency about existence.

 

Should
the existence know that it exists? Should the existence know how it exists?
Should the existence know how much it exists? Should the existence know why it
exists?

 

Or,
Should existence simply continue to exist without even knowing that it exists?
Would such ignorance solve the purpose of existing?

 

How
would existence know that it exists? What would be the components of
post-existence knowing? Is self-knowledge (knowledge about own existence only)
sufficient? Or, is it to be complemented by peri-knowledge (knowledge of the
neighboring/ surrounding existences)? The latter component becomes a necessity
if unity is inherent in creation.

 

The
answers are obvious and this subjective obviousness is the proof of
absoluteness and eternality of these truths (obvious answers). The primordial
absolute-and-eternal truths may be laid down accordingly as :

 

Existence
must know itself. Existence must know itself through its epistemic organ.

 

The
non-dual aspect of ontology of maiden existence in the form of the primordial
particle would call for coincidence/ superimposition of epistemic organ and the
whole body (when the whole body is the epistemic organ).

 

As
the body grows into a conglomerate of organs first and then, into a hierarchy
of organs and organic constituents, the epistemic organ occupies respectively
the central or the apical body-point to be in control. The epistemic ability of
the entity (existence) gives it self-control.

 

Entity*s
ability may be thus divided into two broad divisions : ontic and epistemic. The
*parallel genesis* of the epistemic ability out of the ontology of existence
brings in the notion of *mirror*. This metaphorical mirror is an integral part
of existence (entity*s body) that generates epistemic ability in the generic
form of *feeling*.

 

The
metaphorical mirror may be analogized to truck-driver*s hind-surveying convex
mirror. Thus body*s epistemic organ may be seen metaphorically as an *internal
convexity* that portrays own existence as *feeling*. As a sprawling palace hall
fitted appropriately with a tiny internal convex mirror on its wall reflects
upon its surface the entire internal space for a visitor, the epistemic organ
reflects emotively existence*s worth for the subject.

 

Blending
of the ontic and epistemic parallels of existence while still preserving
primacy of the former is ultimate origin of non-duality. In other words,
non-duality is identification and appreciation of mirror-ness of emotive
attribute of epistemic organ which is as *real* as the ordinary mirror.

 

As
the epistemic organ itself became first a conglomerate and then a hierarchy, the
metaphorical subjective mirror became very complex indeed. And yet mirror-ness
can be sensed at any epistemic constituent of the epistemic hierarchy.

 

For
example, the optic organ (eye-feeling) may be deemed to be endowed with the
metaphorical internal convexity to act as an internal emotive mirror to emanate
*feeling* (eye-feeling, sight-feeling) out of an optic exercise called optic
perception.

 

The
peak deduction about aforesaid non-duality arrives over the issue of apical
epistemic organ (apex of the hierarchy of epistemic organs). The eye-analogy
leads us to propose and differentiate *soul-organ* and *soul-feeling* and
leaves before us no other option but to take the *apical epistemic organ* as the
soul-organ. This soul-organ is the *mother mirror* that reflects emotively (as
feelings) own life and interfaced creation.

 

The
different mirror-analogies that emerged down the ages are depictions of
surmises about the-then perplexing questions of emotive life and apparent
duality/ multiplicity.

 

It
isn*t perplexing any longer. Not after the discovery of (the reality of)
soul-organ, the soul-organ/soul-feeling parallelism and primacy of the former
over the latter. 




(Bhanu Padmo)

http://www.bhanupadmo.com


You
may reply this thread upon http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/greenlogic/ 
as well

or consign a copy to greenlogic@...   for extended discussions.



--- On Mon, 2/18/13, Peter Holleran <ptrholl@...> wrote:

From: Peter Holleran <ptrholl@...>
Subject: Re: [Wisdom-l] Re:the mirror analogy and nondual realization
To: Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 18, 2013, 11:59 PM
















 









       David:
No apologies and no offense. I, too,am just trying to understand, and was hoping
maybe someone else could offer clarity.  This is a problem talking about the
'mirror' - exactly that different teachers speak of it in different ways, and
maybe sometimes referring to different things.- Peter
--- On Sun, 2/17/13, dgallagher@... <dgallagher@...> wrote:

From: dgallagher@... <dgallagher@...>
Subject: Re: [Wisdom-l] Re:the mirror analogy and nondual realization
To: Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, February 17, 2013, 11:06 AM
















 









Peter,
 
This is all far too complex for me..  Words are necessary for dialog,
of course, yet do we understand each other's intended meanings?  You cite
schools and teachers, and I do too, although, I feel, in a far more limited
range than you.  Schools and teachers adopt their own distinctive
vocabularies.  That alone, for me, presents a formidable challenge to
understanding.  Speaking in the vernacular, are we ever on the same
page?
 
With apologies, and hopefully not giving offense,
 
David
 
 

In a message dated 2/17/2013 9:57:49 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
ptrholl@... writes:
 

   David,

What comes to my mind is that the mirror analogy is spoken of
   in different ways, A traditional 'lila' way is that the world is a mirror for
   the Self to know itself in. I think we can reject that one right off the bat,
   as it posits 'meaning' to the absolute. anadi, on the otherhand, has a novel
   way of saying that the 'soul' knows herself in the light of consciousness -
   but apparently is not defined itself by just conscious per se. He says in
   another of his books, "after all, what does the mirror reflect - the mirror?"
   (Now I know in Ch'an there was the famous face-off whereby Hui neng won the
   master's staff by writing 'the mind is not a mirror bright,' , etc., but let's
   not go there as yet). The question, then, is what does anadi mean by the soul?
   I am thinking it comes down to no words are adequate to describe what we are
   talking about. Which includes 'conscious is all', or is 'what we are', etc..


For example, in Dzogchen, according to Namkhai Norbu in The Crystal
   and the Way of Light, he explains that they talk about the Base, the Path, and
   the Fruit. What is relevent right now is the Base. The base of rigpa is
   described in three aspects: Essence, Nature, and Energy. The Essence is pure
   space-like unconditioned mind with the potential to reflect and manifest; its
   Nature then is to reflect, and what it reflects is Energy (which includes
   forms). It is kind of strange, don't you think, to speak of a mirror that
   reflects its own inherent reflections or manifestations? What is it reflecting
   them to - itself? Why? He concludes what should be obvious by now that these
   three aspects are interdependent and inseparable and only a way of talking
   about this in language. He says:

"Although in order to explain the base
   we may artificially separate its Essence, Nature, and Energy, the example of
   the mirror shows that these three aspects are interdependent and cannot be
   separated from each other. In fact, a mirror's primordial voidness, its clear
   capacity to reflect and the reflections that arise in it are inseparable and
   are all essential to the existence of what is known as a 'mirror'."

"If
   it were not empty, the mirror would not reflect, it if did not have a clear
   capacity to reflect, how could it manifest reflections? And if it could not
   manifest reflections, how could we say it was a mirror?" (p.
   98-99)

Isn't this interesting: the mirror itself is manifesting
   reflections in its own mirrorness? This certainly backs us into the nondual
   position totally. We can't then just call 'consciousness' the primary datum so
   glibly. It seems to me that maybe we need to go back to a Trinity model of
   sorts to more accurately reflect the nature of reality, as opposed to just
   consciousness at rest and conscious-energy. We might posit Brahman/Nirguna/
   Tao, whatever - realizing theat are uncharacterizable, and then two
   principles, perhaps siva-shakti, purusha-prakriti, or
   consciousness-manifestation, and reflections on down the line. Within this
   model we find room for all sorts of things like souls, and God, for instance,
   understood hopefully nondually. Then we will acknowledge that speaking of
   consciousness, and adding superlatives like 'universal consciousness', 'pure
   consciousness', or 'awareness' , 'universal awareness', and 'pure awareness',
   or 'prior to consciousness', etc., are just meaningless words. Knowing and
   intelligence have a different feel, but probably even these will face the same
   difficulty. But how do we know that it is awareness that 'knows' whatever it
   is we know? Just because awareness is always there is not proof. That is still
   a word after all.

For another instance, how does anyone know that
   'things' manifest out of consciousness? Damiani says no one ever 'sees' that,
   that you can only know that by hard dialectical reasoning. But it is generally
   assumed by most teachers. Certainly the two always occur together, and not
   causally.

This relates, imo, to the very nature of nondual realization
   and the questions of selfhood. Better perhaps to simply say, as Jack Kornfield
   and some other teachers are now saying, that we go beyond all notions of a
   'separate-self', rather than 'beyond all notions of self', as Adya tends to
   say. Because just because we feel an impersonal realization doesnlt mean there
   is no 'self' there; it may just be too subtle for us to perceive, or our
   experience is colored by our expectation. By simply using 'no-separate self' -
   and on this point I agree with Colin Drake - then we are not needing to assume
   anything about 'self' other than its ever deepening mystery. Because in a
   nondual world self and other are intertwined and inseparable. And 'who'
   realizes non-duality? Some kind of self or individuality. Nondual realization
   excludes nothing. Non-dual realization or nirvana, as well as samsara, are
   both in Relativity and known to some kind of self. That self becomes ever more
   interconnected and non-separate, but it still is there, otherwise who could
   become liberated? Saying it is the Infinite, the Self, emptiness,
   enlightenment that realizes these same things is not much help, and can lead
   to misunderstanding of the scope and nature of Relativity. Samsara and
   Relativity are not the same, imho. Samsara is bondage in Relativity. Nondual
   realization, occuring within relativity, is the realization that samsara and
   nirvana are not separate, and it includes both a realization or perception of
   the existence of the Nondual Ground (which can not be said to be either
   realized or not realized, it is beyond all such concepts), but also of the
   implications of that nondual realization for us within Relativity, and this
   latter could go on almost indefinitely - including the post-enlightenment
   increasing of relative 'merit and wisdom' (understanding of impermanence,
   dukkha, increase of compassion, power, skillfulness, etc.) that began long
   before one realized non-duality, according to certain teachings.. And I think
   this is what PB points to in the many quotes where he talks about this thing
   taking along time, even though it is simple in essence. We can find nondual
   realization to varying degrees while we are still increasing in relative
   'merit and wisdom', as the Tibetans say, and even after more complete, direct
   realization of non-duality, the relative wisdom is now seen as
   interpenetrating and mutually influencing the absolute wisdom. Relative wisdom
   generally does emerge first and forms the foundation of spiritual development
   which eventually prepares one for direct nondual insight, but at a deeper
   level they come to be seen as fundamentally inseparable, two aspects of one
   primordial wisdom. Just some thoughts - Peter

--- In Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com,
   dgallagher@... wrote:
>
> Peter,
>
> Not confusing in
   the light of Plotinus's doctrine of integral omnipresence,
> while
   bearing in mind that the light "appears" out of the
>
   thrice-unknown-darkness (according to the Orphic tradition which seems to have
   been
> embraced by Plato -- at least according to Proclus). Plato too
   uses the mirror
> analogy.
>
> David
>
>

> In a message dated 2/15/2013 11:51:59 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

> ptrholl@... writes:
>
>
>
>
> Mark:

>
> This could be just more words, but anadi says that
   consciousness or
> presence as the light of cognition is the 'mirror'
   in which the soul awakens to
> herself. Thus he says one first needs,
   generally, to awaken to the state of
> presence or awareness, (as well,
   in his view, to the feeling of being) , in
> order to know the soul;
   also implying, rather uniquely, that consciousness
> or awareness is
   not the same or 'higher' than the soul. Interesting but
> somewhat
   confusing take on the 'mirror' analogy often found in consciousness
>
   teachings. - Peter
>
> --- On Wed, 2/13/13, Mark Scorelle
   wrote:
>
>
> From: Mark Scorelle
> Subject: Re:
   [Wisdom-l] anadi - The ego and self-enquiry
> To: Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com
>
   Date: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 9:38 AM
>
>
>
>

> Hi Christi,
> Yesterday I came across this interesting posting
   on Facebook.
>
> The Ego ages... the Soul evolves...
> and
   to the Awareness,
> nothing happened.
>
> To me it seems
   like alot of the discussions here take place between the
> Soul stance
   and Awareness stance. There are allot of shades between, some
> more in
   evolution of the soul, some more of a stance of the absolute. That
>
   one uses inquiry to refer to an insight gained truth, such as one's
>
   essential emptiness, is slightly more on the being side of things, whereas if
   one
> engages in inquiry to gain that insight is slightly more on the
   soul
> evolution side. But obviously both are within the souls movement
   waking up.
>
> For example time, time is a reality in the soul's
   evolution, incarnations,
> aeonic time cycles, etc. but is not to the
   Awareness view, there is only
> the present Now and time is
   manufactured within and by the mind to
> experience the world.
>

>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>

>
> On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Christi Cox
   <_christicox@..._
> (mip://0bb89458/mc/compose?to=christicox@...)
   > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Hey
   Mark,
>
>
> I took this slightly differently. I
   thought--per his final sentence--that
> inquiry would help create the
   conditions in which an initial awakening
> could happen, and that once
   that awakeness was there, inquiry could than be a
> pathway back to
   it...
> --Christi
>
>
>
>
>
   ____________________________________
> From: Mark Scorelle
   <_mark.scorelle@..._
> (mip://0bb89458/mc/compose?to=mark.scorelle@...)
   >
> To: wisdom-l _wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com_

> (mip://0bb89458/mc/compose?to=wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com)
   >
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 12:46 PM
>
>
   Subject: [Wisdom-l] anadi - The ego and self-enquiry
>
>
>

>
>
>
>
>
>
> The ego and
   self-enquiry
>
> Self-enquiry can be described as the ego’s
   existential effort to reveal
> our eternal self hidden beneath the
   layers of our human personality.
> Self-enquiry, the awakening question
   of our true identity, link the intelligence
> that seeks its true
   identity to the awakened answer, the soul herself.
> Because it points
   beyond the mind, self-enquiry must transcend mental effort
> to
   illuminate the direct experience to our essential self.
>
> The
   main point of confusion on the path of self-enquiry relates to the
>
   false assumption that through the power of enquiry we can instantaneously

> access the ever-present self that remains unrealized only due to
   ignorance. The
> reality is that our true self cannot be recognized
   prior to first being
> awakened and actualized. Self-enquiry is not
   limited to seeking and seeing
> who we are in the present now; it
   actually opens the space of intelligence
> and being within which the
   soul can finally remember and awaken her
> timeless essence.
>

>
> (This quote seems to be saying that sudden enlightenment has
   it place and
> that self-enquiry is only effective after spontaneous
   self-recognition has
> happened in other words inquiry is similar to
   the remembrance short path
> exercise. See the Jackson Peterson quote
   on rigpa. When openness and
> clarity, emptiness of self has been
   established in being, not merely
> intellectually, then a pathway is
   open for the heart center, oneness, soul waking up to
> herself to
   occur. ~Mark)
>
>
>
> anadi
> the book of
   enlightenment
> 151-2
>







































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Found by Chance?

[ You say that you found these mystical dimension by chance, without
seeking for them. Why would that be then? Yet you seem to deny religion.
Why is that? ]

I did not go looking for these things. How could one go looking for
something which you did not know existed nor had ever heard of them? So,
I found them by chance, or serendipity, whatever you want to call it.
They just turned up. I cannot say that any more clearly. But of course I
can say from hindsight `Go seek them out, for they exist to be
found'.

No. Wrong. I do not deny anybody their gods, demons, fairies, pixies,
whatever they choose to believe in. They can have as many gods and
demons as they like for all I care. All I am concerned about is that
they keep it out of Politics and State Education and not to try
brainwashing my kids with their beliefs. Be-Liefs do not interest me.
They can have a million be-liefs before breakfast for all I care. I
don't have to live with them. However, I can talk about what I found
in life. And who is going to try stopping me? And why? Let them try it.
Bring them on.  I don't know why, but for whatever reasons I found
these nooks and crannies and dimensions of conscious life and I WILL
speak of them and write about them.  I DID. And they can do with it what
they will. I don't care what they do with it. Nobody can undo it can
they. True, I found no gods and demons, but I found something far better
and much more important than all that. I found the Spirituality or
ESSENCE of MAN. Ipso bloody well Facto. Like it or not. If it clashes
with the religions of peoples beliefs then GOOD. Not my problem is it.

Dick Richardson





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

(text from a Philosophy forum message board thread entitled "Existentialism is
Dead"):

I don't know that I'd agree that Existentialism is on a decline currently,
though it certainly has been since the post 1940's era.

It seems to me that in the post-war years, at least in Western society, there
was a strong social push toward conformity by the majority of people in the
search for identity. Despite the boom of expressionism in music, the arts, and
design, the prevailing norm of the majority was a cookie-cutter approach to
individual values.

However, today, with the proliferation of the Internet, particularly the
multi-media aspect of it, not only is information being rapidly deseminated and
widely available, but on most levels of society, there is a desire toward
personal expression that contains an existential element. This flow of unlimited
information exposes people to a vast set of values, beliefs, and personal
expressions that is ever-changing and omnipresent.

Exposure to this spectrum of expression lends itself to existential
introspection on an individual level, and, as a result, we are seeing a rising
proliferation of new philosophies, new takes on old philosophies, new splinter
aspects of religions, and the merging of many previously-separate psychosocial
and ontological systems.

Is this not the essence of existentialism?

--IntoTheLight--


URL: http://groups.able2know.org/philforum/topic/4082-2

The absurd man differs slightly from the existentialist man in that he commits
to projects which have meaning for him. I do agree that 'nothing matters' is
incompatible with actions to survive.

Mary

--- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "existlist" <hermitcrab65@...> wrote:
>
> Anonymous January 14, 2013 at 5:02 PM
> "For the actions we take to survive are simply not compatible with the belief
that nothing matters."
>
> Only the absurd man is free
> The absurd man revolt is not a revolt of belief or questions that "nothing
matters" only that he cannot know.
> The absurd man is awake to the moment and does not appeal to the past or the
future, (regret or hope) and in revolt refuses to equate any moment to meaning.
> If the moment brings satisfaction or dissatisfaction that is enough, any
attachment to the moment would be a surrender of the revolt to regret, hope and
meaning.
> The Absurd man is awake to the moment and does not attach himself to his
limitations or capacities which are beyond him.
> The absurd man lives his life because it is his life.
> The absurd man does not identify with the ego nor does he negate it.
> The absurd man lives his life because it is his life.
>
> The Absurd � is to be awakened:
> Hope is a fixation on a future
> Regret a fixated on past hope
> Reason ends in paradox and requires a leap
> Theology ends in paradox and requires a leap
> Every leap is a suicide
> Expectation that the leap ends in a safe landing on firm ground is an illusion
> The leap is always into empty space, we are always falling.
> We are falling
> The Absurd holds the tension of the fall without hope, regret or meaning
> We fall
> In the revolt of that awakening the absurd man realises every moment of the
fall.
> This is freedom, a free fall, and it is enough.
>
> A belief that nothing matters is as absurd as a belief that everything matters
but that is not were an absurd man stands. The absurd man does not stand but
falls.
>
>
http://whoistheabsurdman.blogspot.com/2012/03/so-long-and-thanks-for-all-fish.ht\
ml#comment-form
>

I don't think existentialism has declined as much as been absorbed into the
culture via artistic media and cultural attitudes. Not completely, of course,
many disavowed traditions persist. One of the reason's it faded so rapidly,
while it was just beginning to gain attention in the U.S. at least, was due to
advertising and other forms of propaganda.

The internet and social media may encourage endless, narcissistic expression but
not anything really individual. An individual variation on a theme may still be
considered cookie-cutter if it doesn't 'say' anything individual. I generally
don't see much critical thinking and self-analytics.

I do like the trend away from gathering information from television and resort
to the internet, but I doubt the process of detecting bias and motive from
internet sources is sound enough and there still seems much herd-like trending
and silly ideology even with all the new technology. I don't think exposure
automatically equals introspection.

Mary

--- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "existlist" <hermitcrab65@...> wrote:
>
> (text from a Philosophy forum message board thread entitled "Existentialism is
Dead"):
>
> I don't know that I'd agree that Existentialism is on a decline currently,
though it certainly has been since the post 1940's era.
>
> It seems to me that in the post-war years, at least in Western society, there
was a strong social push toward conformity by the majority of people in the
search for identity. Despite the boom of expressionism in music, the arts, and
design, the prevailing norm of the majority was a cookie-cutter approach to
individual values.
>
> However, today, with the proliferation of the Internet, particularly the
multi-media aspect of it, not only is information being rapidly deseminated and
widely available, but on most levels of society, there is a desire toward
personal expression that contains an existential element. This flow of unlimited
information exposes people to a vast set of values, beliefs, and personal
expressions that is ever-changing and omnipresent.
>
> Exposure to this spectrum of expression lends itself to existential
introspection on an individual level, and, as a result, we are seeing a rising
proliferation of new philosophies, new takes on old philosophies, new splinter
aspects of religions, and the merging of many previously-separate psychosocial
and ontological systems.
>
> Is this not the essence of existentialism?
>
> --IntoTheLight--
>
>
> URL: http://groups.able2know.org/philforum/topic/4082-2
>

--- On Fri, 2/22/13, dgallagher@... <dgallagher@...> wrote:

From: dgallagher@... <dgallagher@...>
Subject: Re: [Wisdom-l] Re:the mirror analogy and nondual realization
To: Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, February 22, 2013, 4:39 PM
















 












"Tipping point" here seems at least somewhat correspondent
with Anthony's "razor's edge" in Astronoesis.
 
Central proposition:  "The non-dual aspect of ontology of maiden existence
in the form of the primordial particle would call for coincidence/
superimposition of epistemic organ and the whole body (when the whole body is
the epistemic organ)."  This, I believe, is consistent with Plotinus
in the tractates on Soul (4th Ennead).  "Maiden
existence" recalls the feminine Greek word for soul: psyche. 
The signification of soul as feminine in her essential nature is fundamental to
the metaphor.

"Entity*s ability may be
thus divided into two broad divisions : ontic and epistemic. The *parallel
genesis* of the epistemic ability out of the ontology of existence brings in the
notion of *mirror*. This metaphorical mirror is an integral part of existence
(entity*s body) that generates epistemic ability in the generic form of
*feeling*."  The word "feeling" might mislead here which is likely why
Bhanu placed it within asterisks.  In Plotinus, the sense is "touching",
and epistemic refers to perception; fully inclusive of sense-perception in its
various modes.  All forms of perception are necessarily forms of
self-knowing.  Our failure of perception lies in not realizing this in
every moment and experience in our daily lives.  Confusion and intense
disagreement arise when we investigate whether the images which appear in the
"mirror" are real.  That, I suspect, involves the "tipping point" where
balance is challenged in the presence of intellect.

Good analysis,
Bhanu.

David
 
 
 

In a message dated 2/22/2013 10:52:13 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
greenbhanu@... writes:
 






         (The
         Mirror-Metaphor)
         The confusion about
         mirror-analogies may be narrowed down to a tipping point that would also
         establish non-duality quite decisively. This tipping point is where all
         thinkers of all ages have been tottering. And indeed, this tipping point
         beyond which lies the world of non-duality is the seminal mirror-ness,
         the maiden mirror-ness. The world of non-duality is reachable only if
         this maiden mirror-ness is transcended. Otherwise, not. So, let*s
         concentrate on the nature of the tipping point and the slippery approach
         to it – with the objective of transcending it.
         The tipping point is
         the epistemic contingency about existence.
         Should the existence
         know that it exists? Should the existence know how it exists? Should the
         existence know how much it exists? Should the existence know why it
         exists?
         Or, Should existence
         simply continue to exist without even knowing that it exists? Would such
         ignorance solve the purpose of existing?
         How would existence
         know that it exists? What would be the components of post-existence
         knowing? Is self-knowledge (knowledge about own existence only)
         sufficient? Or, is it to be complemented by peri-knowledge (knowledge of
         the neighboring/ surrounding existences)? The latter component becomes a
         necessity if unity is inherent in creation.
         The answers are obvious
         and this subjective obviousness is the proof of absoluteness and
         eternality of these truths (obvious answers). The primordial
         absolute-and-eternal truths may be laid down accordingly as :

         Existence must know
         itself. Existence must know itself through its epistemic organ.

         The non-dual aspect of
         ontology of maiden existence in the form of the primordial particle
         would call for coincidence/ superimposition of epistemic organ and the
         whole body (when the whole body is the epistemic organ).
         As the body grows into
         a conglomerate of organs first and then, into a hierarchy of organs and
         organic constituents, the epistemic organ occupies respectively the
         central or the apical body-point to be in control. The epistemic ability
         of the entity (existence) gives it self-control.
         Entity*s ability may be
         thus divided into two broad divisions : ontic and epistemic. The
         *parallel genesis* of the epistemic ability out of the ontology of
         existence brings in the notion of *mirror*. This metaphorical mirror is
         an integral part of existence (entity*s body) that generates epistemic
         ability in the generic form of *feeling*.
         The metaphorical mirror
         may be analogized to truck-driver*s hind-surveying convex mirror. Thus
         body*s epistemic organ may be seen metaphorically as an *internal
         convexity* that portrays own existence as *feeling*. As a sprawling
         palace hall fitted appropriately with a tiny internal convex mirror on
         its wall reflects upon its surface the entire internal space for a
         visitor, the epistemic organ reflects emotively existence*s worth for
         the subject.
         Blending of the ontic
         and epistemic parallels of existence while still preserving primacy of
         the former is ultimate origin of non-duality. In other words,
         non-duality is identification and appreciation of mirror-ness of emotive
         attribute of epistemic organ which is as *real* as the ordinary mirror.

         As the epistemic organ
         itself became first a conglomerate and then a hierarchy, the
         metaphorical subjective mirror became very complex indeed. And yet
         mirror-ness can be sensed at any epistemic constituent of the epistemic
         hierarchy.
         For example, the optic
         organ (eye-feeling) may be deemed to be endowed with the metaphorical
         internal convexity to act as an internal emotive mirror to emanate
         *feeling* (eye-feeling, sight-feeling) out of an optic exercise called
         optic perception.
         The peak deduction
         about aforesaid non-duality arrives over the issue of apical epistemic
         organ (apex of the hierarchy of epistemic organs). The eye-analogy leads
         us to propose and differentiate *soul-organ* and *soul-feeling* and
         leaves before us no other option but to take the *apical epistemic
         organ* as the soul-organ. This soul-organ is the *mother mirror* that
         reflects emotively (as feelings) own life and interfaced
         creation.
         The different
         mirror-analogies that emerged down the ages are depictions of surmises
         about the-then perplexing questions of emotive life and apparent
         duality/ multiplicity.
         It isn*t perplexing any
         longer. Not after the discovery of (the reality of) soul-organ, the
         soul-organ/soul-feeling parallelism and primacy of the former over the
         latter. 

         (Bhanu Padmo)
         http://www.bhanupadmo.com

         You may reply this thread upon
http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/greenlogic/ 
         as well
or consign a copy to greenlogic@...  
         for extended discussions.

--- On Mon, 2/18/13,
         Peter Holleran <ptrholl@...> wrote:


From:
           Peter Holleran <ptrholl@...>
Subject: Re: [Wisdom-l]
           Re:the mirror analogy and nondual realization
To:
           Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, February 18, 2013, 11:59
           PM



            





               David:


                 No apologies and no offense. I, too,am just trying to
                 understand, and was hoping maybe someone else could offer
                 clarity.  This is a problem talking about the 'mirror' -
                 exactly that different teachers speak of it in different ways,
                 and maybe sometimes referring to different things.- Peter

--- On Sun, 2/17/13, dgallagher@...
                 <dgallagher@...> wrote:


From:
                   dgallagher@... <dgallagher@...>
Subject: Re:
                   [Wisdom-l] Re:the mirror analogy and nondual
                   realization
To: Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday,
                   February 17, 2013, 11:06 AM



                    


                   Peter,
                    
                   This is all far too complex for me..  Words are
                   necessary for dialog, of course, yet do we understand each
                   other's intended meanings?  You cite schools and
                   teachers, and I do too, although, I feel, in a far more
                   limited range than you.  Schools and teachers adopt their
                   own distinctive vocabularies.  That alone, for
                   me, presents a formidable challenge to
                   understanding.  Speaking in the vernacular, are we ever
                   on the same page?
                    
                   With apologies, and hopefully not giving offense,
                    
                   David
                    
                    

                   In a message dated 2/17/2013 9:57:49 A.M. Eastern
                   Standard Time, ptrholl@... writes:
                    

                     David,

What comes to my mind is that the mirror
                     analogy is spoken of in different ways, A traditional 'lila'
                     way is that the world is a mirror for the Self to know
                     itself in. I think we can reject that one right off the bat,
                     as it posits 'meaning' to the absolute. anadi, on the
                     otherhand, has a novel way of saying that the 'soul' knows
                     herself in the light of consciousness - but apparently is
                     not defined itself by just conscious per se. He says in
                     another of his books, "after all, what does the mirror
                     reflect - the mirror?" (Now I know in Ch'an there was the
                     famous face-off whereby Hui neng won the master's staff by
                     writing 'the mind is not a mirror bright,' , etc., but let's
                     not go there as yet). The question, then, is what does anadi
                     mean by the soul? I am thinking it comes down to no words
                     are adequate to describe what we are talking about. Which
                     includes 'conscious is all', or is 'what we are', etc..


For example, in Dzogchen, according to Namkhai Norbu
                     in The Crystal and the Way of Light, he explains that they
                     talk about the Base, the Path, and the Fruit. What is
                     relevent right now is the Base. The base of rigpa is
                     described in three aspects: Essence, Nature, and Energy. The
                     Essence is pure space-like unconditioned mind with the
                     potential to reflect and manifest; its Nature then is to
                     reflect, and what it reflects is Energy (which includes
                     forms). It is kind of strange, don't you think, to speak of
                     a mirror that reflects its own inherent reflections or
                     manifestations? What is it reflecting them to - itself? Why?
                     He concludes what should be obvious by now that these three
                     aspects are interdependent and inseparable and only a way of
                     talking about this in language. He says:

"Although in
                     order to explain the base we may artificially separate its
                     Essence, Nature, and Energy, the example of the mirror shows
                     that these three aspects are interdependent and cannot be
                     separated from each other. In fact, a mirror's primordial
                     voidness, its clear capacity to reflect and the reflections
                     that arise in it are inseparable and are all essential to
                     the existence of what is known as a 'mirror'."

"If it
                     were not empty, the mirror would not reflect, it if did not
                     have a clear capacity to reflect, how could it manifest
                     reflections? And if it could not manifest reflections, how
                     could we say it was a mirror?" (p. 98-99)

Isn't this
                     interesting: the mirror itself is manifesting reflections in
                     its own mirrorness? This certainly backs us into the nondual
                     position totally. We can't then just call 'consciousness'
                     the primary datum so glibly. It seems to me that maybe we
                     need to go back to a Trinity model of sorts to more
                     accurately reflect the nature of reality, as opposed to just
                     consciousness at rest and conscious-energy. We might posit
                     Brahman/Nirguna/ Tao, whatever - realizing theat are
                     uncharacterizable, and then two principles, perhaps
                     siva-shakti, purusha-prakriti, or
                     consciousness-manifestation, and reflections on down the
                     line. Within this model we find room for all sorts of things
                     like souls, and God, for instance, understood hopefully
                     nondually. Then we will acknowledge that speaking of
                     consciousness, and adding superlatives like 'universal
                     consciousness', 'pure consciousness', or 'awareness' ,
                     'universal awareness', and 'pure awareness', or 'prior to
                     consciousness', etc., are just meaningless words. Knowing
                     and intelligence have a different feel, but probably even
                     these will face the same difficulty. But how do we know that
                     it is awareness that 'knows' whatever it is we know? Just
                     because awareness is always there is not proof. That is
                     still a word after all.

For another instance, how
                     does anyone know that 'things' manifest out of
                     consciousness? Damiani says no one ever 'sees' that, that
                     you can only know that by hard dialectical reasoning. But it
                     is generally assumed by most teachers. Certainly the two
                     always occur together, and not causally.

This
                     relates, imo, to the very nature of nondual realization and
                     the questions of selfhood. Better perhaps to simply say, as
                     Jack Kornfield and some other teachers are now saying, that
                     we go beyond all notions of a 'separate-self', rather than
                     'beyond all notions of self', as Adya tends to say. Because
                     just because we feel an impersonal realization doesnlt mean
                     there is no 'self' there; it may just be too subtle for us
                     to perceive, or our experience is colored by our
                     expectation. By simply using 'no-separate self' - and on
                     this point I agree with Colin Drake - then we are not
                     needing to assume anything about 'self' other than its ever
                     deepening mystery. Because in a nondual world self and other
                     are intertwined and inseparable. And 'who' realizes
                     non-duality? Some kind of self or individuality. Nondual
                     realization excludes nothing. Non-dual realization or
                     nirvana, as well as samsara, are both in Relativity and
                     known to some kind of self. That self becomes ever more
                     interconnected and non-separate, but it still is there,
                     otherwise who could become liberated? Saying it is the
                     Infinite, the Self, emptiness, enlightenment that realizes
                     these same things is not much help, and can lead to
                     misunderstanding of the scope and nature of Relativity.
                     Samsara and Relativity are not the same, imho. Samsara is
                     bondage in Relativity. Nondual realization, occuring within
                     relativity, is the realization that samsara and nirvana are
                     not separate, and it includes both a realization or
                     perception of the existence of the Nondual Ground (which can
                     not be said to be either realized or not realized, it is
                     beyond all such concepts), but also of the implications of
                     that nondual realization for us within Relativity, and this
                     latter could go on almost indefinitely - including the
                     post-enlightenment increasing of relative 'merit and wisdom'
                     (understanding of impermanence, dukkha, increase of
                     compassion, power, skillfulness, etc.) that began long
                     before one realized non-duality, according to certain
                     teachings.. And I think this is what PB points to in the
                     many quotes where he talks about this thing taking along
                     time, even though it is simple in essence. We can find
                     nondual realization to varying degrees while we are still
                     increasing in relative 'merit and wisdom', as the Tibetans
                     say, and even after more complete, direct realization of
                     non-duality, the relative wisdom is now seen as
                     interpenetrating and mutually influencing the absolute
                     wisdom. Relative wisdom generally does emerge first and
                     forms the foundation of spiritual development which
                     eventually prepares one for direct nondual insight, but at a
                     deeper level they come to be seen as fundamentally
                     inseparable, two aspects of one primordial wisdom. Just some
                     thoughts - Peter

--- In Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com, dgallagher@...
                     wrote:
>
> Peter,
>
> Not confusing
                     in the light of Plotinus's doctrine of integral
                     omnipresence,
> while bearing in mind that the light
                     "appears" out of the
> thrice-unknown-darkness
                     (according to the Orphic tradition which seems to have been

> embraced by Plato -- at least according to
                     Proclus). Plato too uses the mirror
>
                     analogy.
>
> David
>
>
> In
                     a message dated 2/15/2013 11:51:59 A.M. Eastern Standard
                     Time,
> ptrholl@... writes:
>
>
>

>
> Mark:
>
> This could be just
                     more words, but anadi says that consciousness or
>
                     presence as the light of cognition is the 'mirror' in which
                     the soul awakens to
> herself. Thus he says one first
                     needs, generally, to awaken to the state of
>
                     presence or awareness, (as well, in his view, to the feeling
                     of being) , in
> order to know the soul; also
                     implying, rather uniquely, that consciousness
> or
                     awareness is not the same or 'higher' than the soul.
                     Interesting but
> somewhat confusing take on the
                     'mirror' analogy often found in consciousness
>
                     teachings. - Peter
>
> --- On Wed, 2/13/13,
                     Mark Scorelle wrote:
>
>
> From: Mark
                     Scorelle
> Subject: Re: [Wisdom-l] anadi - The ego
                     and self-enquiry
> To: Wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com
> Date:
                     Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 9:38 AM
>
>

>
>
> Hi Christi,
> Yesterday I
                     came across this interesting posting on Facebook.
>

> The Ego ages... the Soul evolves...
> and to
                     the Awareness,
> nothing happened.
>
>
                     To me it seems like alot of the discussions here take place
                     between the
> Soul stance and Awareness stance. There
                     are allot of shades between, some
> more in evolution
                     of the soul, some more of a stance of the absolute. That

> one uses inquiry to refer to an insight gained
                     truth, such as one's
> essential emptiness, is
                     slightly more on the being side of things, whereas if one

> engages in inquiry to gain that insight is slightly
                     more on the soul
> evolution side. But obviously both
                     are within the souls movement waking up.
>
>
                     For example time, time is a reality in the soul's evolution,
                     incarnations,
> aeonic time cycles, etc. but is not
                     to the Awareness view, there is only
> the present
                     Now and time is manufactured within and by the mind to

> experience the world.
>
>
>
                     Mark
>
>
>
>
>
>

>
> On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 5:22 PM, Christi
                     Cox <_christicox@..._
> (mip://0bb89458/mc/compose?to=christicox@...)
                     > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>

> Hey Mark,
>
>
> I took this
                     slightly differently. I thought--per his final
                     sentence--that
> inquiry would help create the
                     conditions in which an initial awakening
> could
                     happen, and that once that awakeness was there, inquiry
                     could than be a
> pathway back to it...
>
                     --Christi
>
>
>
>
>
                     ____________________________________
> From: Mark
                     Scorelle <_mark.scorelle@..._
> (mip://0bb89458/mc/compose?to=mark.scorelle@...)
                     >
> To: wisdom-l _wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com_
> (mip://0bb89458/mc/compose?to=wisdom-l@yahoogroups.com)
                     >
> Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 12:46 PM

>
> Subject: [Wisdom-l] anadi - The ego and
                     self-enquiry
>
>
>
>
>

>
>
>
>
> The ego and
                     self-enquiry
>
> Self-enquiry can be described
                     as the ego’s existential effort to reveal
> our
                     eternal self hidden beneath the layers of our human
                     personality.
> Self-enquiry, the awakening question
                     of our true identity, link the intelligence
> that
                     seeks its true identity to the awakened answer, the soul
                     herself.
> Because it points beyond the mind,
                     self-enquiry must transcend mental effort
> to
                     illuminate the direct experience to our essential
                     self.
>
> The main point of confusion on the
                     path of self-enquiry relates to the
> false
                     assumption that through the power of enquiry we can
                     instantaneously
> access the ever-present self that
                     remains unrealized only due to ignorance. The
>
                     reality is that our true self cannot be recognized prior to
                     first being
> awakened and actualized. Self-enquiry
                     is not limited to seeking and seeing
> who we are in
                     the present now; it actually opens the space of intelligence

> and being within which the soul can finally
                     remember and awaken her
> timeless essence.
>

>
> (This quote seems to be saying that sudden
                     enlightenment has it place and
> that self-enquiry is
                     only effective after spontaneous self-recognition has

> happened in other words inquiry is similar to the
                     remembrance short path
> exercise. See the Jackson
                     Peterson quote on rigpa. When openness and
> clarity,
                     emptiness of self has been established in being, not merely

> intellectually, then a pathway is open for the
                     heart center, oneness, soul waking up to
> herself to
                     occur. ~Mark)
>
>
>
>
                     anadi
> the book of enlightenment
>
                     151-2
>



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The original existentialism  is gone. After Sartre and Camus it changed, it
evolved. It did not evolve as an organic whole and as the Existlist writer says
it  it branched into  many individual philosophies. That has happned on this
list to most of the persistant writers. Bookdoc went to absurdism, Eduard to
Nooism, myself to Modern American Philosophy. Mary  likes  a leftist and Dick is
a mystic. I do not think it can be argued that any of these evolutions  are true
to  primal existentialism.
I do not see how they could  remain  of pure doctrine when Existentialism is
anything but  a doctrinal philosophy.Time changed  the existentialists and the
existentialists changed existentialism. I am reminded of David Bowie and his
"Turn and face the strange  changes" How could an existentialiost remain
doctrinare in the face of time?
The name existentialism is weak  and I think it will not last. The erosive
seepage of  time into modernism continues and modernism changing time has not
slowed down. Look at same sex marriage a very philosophic concept that grows 
despite viscous attacks from the people of the past. Simple fairness demands 
equil fairness under the law  and fair minded people rtespond to  that call.
Bigoted people do not respond  to that demand of fairness. I doubt S artre or
Camus would heve responded favorablely to same sex marriage. For Heidegger or
Husseryl  it would be out of the question. Time and evolution changed the
existentialists  and we are the existentialists it changed but same sex marriage
will never be a part of the original existentialism. The big bang theory 
certainly  moves forward the  the case for atheism but the big bang theory is
not part of original existentialism. Now making authentic decisions is 
fundamental to the original  existentialism  and we the present existentialists 
carry that burden. Deep personal responsibility for the validity of thought
seems alive here as we argue about  many things. I agree the thinness of  proof
on the internet  is a problem . . Bill

I think one of the reasons for this diverse expression of existentialism is due
to its rather vague definition and dependence on the author/s of choice. The one
field in which existentialism has made an indelible mark is psychology, which is
the one place where there is no confusion as to what it means.

Mary

--- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <vize9938@...> wrote:
>
> The original existentialism  is gone. After Sartre and Camus it changed, it
evolved. It did not evolve as an organic whole and as the Existlist writer says
it  it branched into  many individual philosophies. That has happned on this
list to most of the persistant writers. Bookdoc went to absurdism, Eduard to
Nooism, myself to Modern American Philosophy. Mary  likes  a leftist and Dick is
a mystic. I do not think it can be argued that any of these evolutions  are true
to  primal existentialism.
> I do not see how they could  remain  of pure doctrine when Existentialism is
anything but  a doctrinal philosophy.Time changed  the existentialists and the
existentialists changed existentialism. I am reminded of David Bowie and his
"Turn and face the strange  changes" How could an existentialiost remain
doctrinare in the face of time?
> The name existentialism is weak  and I think it will not last. The erosive
seepage of  time into modernism continues and modernism changing time has not
slowed down. Look at same sex marriage a very philosophic concept that grows 
despite viscous attacks from the people of the past. Simple fairness demands 
equil fairness under the law  and fair minded people rtespond to  that call.
Bigoted people do not respond  to that demand of fairness. I doubt S artre or
Camus would heve responded favorablely to same sex marriage. For Heidegger or
Husseryl  it would be out of the question. Time and evolution changed the
existentialists  and we are the existentialists it changed but same sex marriage
will never be a part of the original existentialism. The big bang theory 
certainly  moves forward the  the case for atheism but the big bang theory is
not part of original existentialism. Now making authentic decisions is 
fundamental to the original  existentialism  and we the present existentialists 
carry that burden. Deep personal responsibility for the validity of thought
seems alive here as we argue about  many things. I agree the thinness of  proof
on the internet  is a problem . . Bill
>

Bill,

I remember you once compared your comments here to a bottled message at sea that
might be fortuitously found and enlightening to others. Now you've set up house
at another board closed to public view over some unwelcomed gurus. Its been said
some write for themselves and some for others, and preaching to a small choir
can be boring and unchallenging (and perhaps eventually grating if it's too
feminine, or if, as you once said, too "Protestant"). Bet you'll be back.

All the best,

Irvin

--- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <vize9938@...> wrote:
>
> We have two  interlopers here,now. Neither have anything to do with
existentialism. I suspect Bookdoc wrote or sponsered the post from Exislist
about the absurd man. I liked it  and would ask the author his thoughts on
Camus.
> When the gurus  tire of writing here Some existentialists might return. That 
fictive parrot still contributes  is a very positive sign. I think  it is
proposed that Trinidad  was the spouse of  another pivotal writer. I did not
know that  but if I remember correctly Bookdoc  had some hard battles with 
Trinidad. Should he get tired of poking Dick  I invite Bookdoc to my site,
Neoex. I will let you in and then leave you to  whatever matters you deem
appropriate. Good to hear from you, Bill
>

--- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@...> wrote:
>
> Bill,
>
> I remember you once compared your comments here to a bottled message at sea
that might be fortuitously found and enlightening to others. Now you've set up
house at another board closed to public view over some unwelcomed gurus. Its
been said some write for themselves and some for others, and preaching to a
small choir can be boring and unchallenging (and perhaps eventually grating if
it's too feminine, or if, as you once said, too "Protestant"). Bet you'll be
back.
>
> All the best,
>
> Irvin
> Irvin, I have never left and have had my own site for years. I just will not
waste time on that eastern ,mystical crap. We are having a most interesting
discussion  at Neoex. It is about the golan heights, Chaney and huge oil and gas
deposites in the med and golan. These indian dorques want in  but they have
screwed exislist and  so I will be watching them and please know I am a member
of their  group but they will not post what I write. Fair is fair,tit for tat.
Come join neoex, I`ll let YOU in. Bill
> --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <vize9938@> wrote:
> >
> > We have two  interlopers here,now. Neither have anything to do with
existentialism. I suspect Bookdoc wrote or sponsered the post from Exislist
about the absurd man. I liked it  and would ask the author his thoughts on
Camus.
> > When the gurus  tire of writing here Some existentialists might return. That
fictive parrot still contributes  is a very positive sign. I think  it is
proposed that Trinidad  was the spouse of  another pivotal writer. I did not
know that  but if I remember correctly Bookdoc  had some hard battles with 
Trinidad. Should he get tired of poking Dick  I invite Bookdoc to my site,
Neoex. I will let you in and then leave you to  whatever matters you deem
appropriate. Good to hear from you, Bill
> >
>

Irval, I have not left I am simply writing existentialism.,here. I am writing on
my own site  some budding material about Dick Chaney,the Golan heights and huge
crude and gas deposites  in Golan and the med. Blackwater and CIA are involved.
It is just shaping up with Seeking Alpha,a usaually reliable source starting to
talk. I will let you in if you  apply to Neoex. Please do not bring any of these
guru types . They will not accept  my posts on their home site so it is tit for
tat. I owe those phonies nothing. Bill

--- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@...> wrote:
Its been said some write for themselves and some for others, and preaching to a
small choir can be boring and unchallenging

===

AMEN.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm16ZIM_0fM
(Glenn Campbell Defines Existentialism from the woods of New England in a little
over six minutes)

He simplifies to such an extent that some here may not agree with his
definition.

h.

--- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "existlist" <hermitcrab65@...> wrote:
>
> --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "irvhal" <i99hj@> wrote:
> Its been said some write for themselves and some for others, and preaching to
a small choir can be boring and unchallenging
>
> ===
>
> AMEN.
>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm16ZIM_0fM
> (Glenn Campbell Defines Existentialism from the woods of New England in a
little over six minutes)
>
> He simplifies to such an extent that some here may not agree with his
definition.
>
> h.
>h. Amen,what? Who are You?Hide and seek is a bit juvenile. Your style is clean 
and you seem to know something about existentialism.Thats nothing to be ashamed
of so  just write with a name, the rest of us do. Bill

Time  AND Eternity

[ I like this Dick. I know I am brave enough to search for what exists.
I HAVE searched, all my life. I have found that I am nobody that always
IS. I'm still learning to tell the false sign posts from the true. The
illusion grows more subtle now. As for gurus... they have their place,
but they are not for me, not any more. Peace.]

Ahh well, this is the WHOLE point you see bro, EVERYTHING constructed in
TIME changes. The bloody lot of it. It is all temporary for today. Your
body, brain, personality, ALL CHANG.  And that is fine, there is nothing
wrong in that is there. But TIME is not ETERNITY, and eternity is NOT
time. So it is NOT true to say that ALL parts of you change. You are
made of THREE parts. (3) the physical person on earth. (2) the SOUL or
Subconscious (that evolves).  (1) The Essence or spirit of our being,
the primordial consciousness which exists IN ETERNITY. The I AM bit.
That does not evolve and it does not change. Hence why the hell I keep
saying that MAN is ever tied to the cross of TIME and Eternity. (X).  AS
for rambling on a bit, well it seems that one has to at times. For
important points seem to so often fly over the Cuckoo's nest.

Many years ago I had to find a way of TALKING from the first part while
here in the third part. So I invented the term SYNETIC DIALOGUE. I
explain it in the book. I  discovered that some people had done it
before millennia ago, but they had not explained what they were doing
and why. So I gave it a name. Here is an example of it - - I AM always
with you, even unto the end of time and beyond.

Dick Richardson







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]