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  • Category: Existentialism
  • Founded: Apr 16, 1999
  • Language: English
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#50682 From: "William" <v.valleywestdental@...>
Date: Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:51 pm
Subject: extopical tutorial
bhvwd
Send Email Send Email
 
While he was twisting,slowly after his recent rant there was a moment when  some
mercy crept into mind. Luckily I did not push the send button.A much more
important event in the world of letters has taken place ,JD Sallinger died. I
will let some scholar fill in the ties between JD and the writers workshop. I
spent a year with a workshop professor and it makes this mickey mouse game just
a turkey shoot.
I read "Catcher in the Rye' very early on. I do not remember the story line,I
remember it as an attitude changer. Before the book I was angry but thought I
was wrong, after the book I began to see my own perspective in a better light.
That was what the workshop demanded. Put your ideas out there and take the
blows. There are all kinds of arm chair quarterbacks out there who sit on their
spotless thrones and cherry pick as an ego boost. Like Obama says if you want to
keep your numbers up,do nothing. Thinking,it is about thinking ,not copying
others work. Sallanger and Vonnigut wrote in that slashing style which caused
emotional growth. They could make you detest yourself for being so duped by the
staid mediocracy of accepted situations.
Now I think TC has accused Mary of being Louise. Or Louise being Mary. Where
did he get that and how is such a rumor resolved? I know Mary likes Camus and
Louise hates the French existentialists. The straw man has been a literary
device for a long time. People do it because they can. Some ideas may be so
dangerous that a straw man cover becomes the only option. I am sure the numb
nuts that memorise lists can give us numerous examples of such cover. I will
take a covered idea before I can respect a lifting. Lifting an entire persona is
an artistic achievement. This title,which I think I authored seems most apt but
then again we must suspect anything that might pose change. Bill




#50683 From: "Mary" <josephson45r@...>
Date: Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:12 pm
Subject: Re: tutorial
josephson45r
Send Email Send Email
 
Bill, I'm flattered that anyone would think I am Louise, because her erudition
is exemplary and her integrity fearsome. I recently admitted via a member
profile "memo" that I've had several pseudonyms over nearly seven years, I have
never talked to myself here, at least not until recently which prompted the
confession. I don't do guile very well. Trinidad is a persona but not mine. I am
only Mary, playing with ideas, keeping the absurd in its place.

--- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
>
> While he was twisting,slowly after his recent rant there was a moment when
some mercy crept into mind. Luckily I did not push the send button.A much more
important event in the world of letters has taken place ,JD Sallinger died. I
will let some scholar fill in the ties between JD and the writers workshop. I
spent a year with a workshop professor and it makes this mickey mouse game just
a turkey shoot.
> I read "Catcher in the Rye' very early on. I do not remember the story line,I
remember it as an attitude changer. Before the book I was angry but thought I
was wrong, after the book I began to see my own perspective in a better light.
That was what the workshop demanded. Put your ideas out there and take the
blows. There are all kinds of arm chair quarterbacks out there who sit on their
spotless thrones and cherry pick as an ego boost. Like Obama says if you want to
keep your numbers up,do nothing. Thinking,it is about thinking ,not copying
others work. Sallanger and Vonnigut wrote in that slashing style which caused
emotional growth. They could make you detest yourself for being so duped by the
staid mediocracy of accepted situations.
> Now I think TC has accused Mary of being Louise. Or Louise being Mary. Where
did he get that and how is such a rumor resolved? I know Mary likes Camus and
Louise hates the French existentialists. The straw man has been a literary
device for a long time. People do it because they can. Some ideas may be so
dangerous that a straw man cover becomes the only option. I am sure the numb
nuts that memorise lists can give us numerous examples of such cover. I will
take a covered idea before I can respect a lifting. Lifting an entire persona is
an artistic achievement. This title,which I think I authored seems most apt but
then again we must suspect anything that might pose change. Bill
>





#50684 From: "William" <v.valleywestdental@...>
Date: Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:47 pm
Subject: Re: tutorial
bhvwd
Send Email Send Email
 
Mary, it seemed a huge stretch but  if I remember the very early Mary she
arrived as an artist. TC has been a starving revolutionary on the streets of
Chicago.I always smell FBI whan TC or Wil get going about Marx or Castro or any
of pink platoon.
My war was the cold war and the gloved hand was always operating and was
usually most illusive. I developed suspicians that were triggered automatically
in the presance of seemingly innocuous presentations.I hope they take it off
line as they run risks perhaps for others when they take that tac. It seems
both have been burned before but neither may be who they present. Cyber
uncertainty rages on. Bill

--- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
>
> Bill, I'm flattered that anyone would think I am Louise, because her erudition
is exemplary and her integrity fearsome. I recently admitted via a member
profile "memo" that I've had several pseudonyms over nearly seven years, I have
never talked to myself here, at least not until recently which prompted the
confession. I don't do guile very well. Trinidad is a persona but not mine. I am
only Mary, playing with ideas, keeping the absurd in its place.
>
> --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@> wrote:
> >
> > While he was twisting,slowly after his recent rant there was a moment when
some mercy crept into mind. Luckily I did not push the send button.A much more
important event in the world of letters has taken place ,JD Sallinger died. I
will let some scholar fill in the ties between JD and the writers workshop. I
spent a year with a workshop professor and it makes this mickey mouse game just
a turkey shoot.
> > I read "Catcher in the Rye' very early on. I do not remember the story
line,I remember it as an attitude changer. Before the book I was angry but
thought I was wrong, after the book I began to see my own perspective in a
better light. That was what the workshop demanded. Put your ideas out there and
take the blows. There are all kinds of arm chair quarterbacks out there who sit
on their spotless thrones and cherry pick as an ego boost. Like Obama says if
you want to keep your numbers up,do nothing. Thinking,it is about thinking ,not
copying others work. Sallanger and Vonnigut wrote in that slashing style which
caused emotional growth. They could make you detest yourself for being so duped
by the staid mediocracy of accepted situations.
> > Now I think TC has accused Mary of being Louise. Or Louise being Mary.
Where did he get that and how is such a rumor resolved? I know Mary likes Camus
and Louise hates the French existentialists. The straw man has been a literary
device for a long time. People do it because they can. Some ideas may be so
dangerous that a straw man cover becomes the only option. I am sure the numb
nuts that memorise lists can give us numerous examples of such cover. I will
take a covered idea before I can respect a lifting. Lifting an entire persona is
an artistic achievement. This title,which I think I authored seems most apt but
then again we must suspect anything that might pose change. Bill
> >
>





#50685 From: eupraxis@...
Date: Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: Re: tutorial
wsindarius
Send Email Send Email
 
I just want moose and squirrel.

Wil aka Boris



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




#50687 From: "tc" <cribprdb@...>
Date: Sat Jan 30, 2010 9:34 pm
Subject: Re: tutorial
cribprdb
Send Email Send Email
 
Adjust your reading glasses. I never said you were Lou, only that I was unaware
after being absent that you had two personnas here. Lou has had several, but you
had more than one as well so I became confused. Gee I'm sorry. I would have
worded my post differently had I thought the Ramona person was you. If you want
to drive nails in I think you should just have at it. I'll use the damn hammer
on myself if you prefer.

Finally you are wrong to be so taken with Aronson's or whatever the hell it is
biography of Sartre. Read Cohen. Go against the grain. Nobody screwed up Sartre
more than Levy at the end, but maybe you think that's your new calling to do for
me? I don't think you get Sartre at all as a matter of fact. He was often
entirely a performance artist and he didn't want to be possessed as an icon by
other ideas, he wanted to be the icon outside of lesser ideas, the only
exception communism. Don't tell me what to do or what I can say or write. Go
ahead and judge me, and even punish me, but don't you dare try to infringe on my
literary freedom or discredit me in some game of jaded distemper. Don't you
dare.

tc

--- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
>
> Bill, I'm flattered that anyone would think I am Louise, because her erudition
is exemplary and her integrity fearsome. I recently admitted via a member
profile "memo" that I've had several pseudonyms over nearly seven years, I have
never talked to myself here, at least not until recently which prompted the
confession. I don't do guile very well. Trinidad is a persona but not mine. I am
only Mary, playing with ideas, keeping the absurd in its place.
>
> --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@> wrote:
> >
> > While he was twisting,slowly after his recent rant there was a moment when
some mercy crept into mind. Luckily I did not push the send button.A much more
important event in the world of letters has taken place ,JD Sallinger died. I
will let some scholar fill in the ties between JD and the writers workshop. I
spent a year with a workshop professor and it makes this mickey mouse game just
a turkey shoot.
> > I read "Catcher in the Rye' very early on. I do not remember the story
line,I remember it as an attitude changer. Before the book I was angry but
thought I was wrong, after the book I began to see my own perspective in a
better light. That was what the workshop demanded. Put your ideas out there and
take the blows. There are all kinds of arm chair quarterbacks out there who sit
on their spotless thrones and cherry pick as an ego boost. Like Obama says if
you want to keep your numbers up,do nothing. Thinking,it is about thinking ,not
copying others work. Sallanger and Vonnigut wrote in that slashing style which
caused emotional growth. They could make you detest yourself for being so duped
by the staid mediocracy of accepted situations.
> > Now I think TC has accused Mary of being Louise. Or Louise being Mary.
Where did he get that and how is such a rumor resolved? I know Mary likes Camus
and Louise hates the French existentialists. The straw man has been a literary
device for a long time. People do it because they can. Some ideas may be so
dangerous that a straw man cover becomes the only option. I am sure the numb
nuts that memorise lists can give us numerous examples of such cover. I will
take a covered idea before I can respect a lifting. Lifting an entire persona is
an artistic achievement. This title,which I think I authored seems most apt but
then again we must suspect anything that might pose change. Bill
> >
>





#59474 From: "Mary" <josephson45r@...>
Date: Sat Mar 2, 2013 5:35 am
Subject: tutorial
josephson45r
Send Email Send Email
 
louise,

Is there a software application available to help open this file?

Mary




#59475 From: "existlist" <hermitcrab65@...>
Date: Sat Mar 2, 2013 12:15 pm
Subject: Re: tutorial
existlist
Send Email Send Email
 
Mary,
I didn't click that link figuring it was from something bad (phishing) that took
control of Louise's email program.

h.

--- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@...> wrote:
>
> louise,
>
> Is there a software application available to help open this file?
>
> Mary
>





#59476 From: "Mary" <josephson45r@...>
Date: Sat Mar 2, 2013 4:50 pm
Subject: Re: tutorial
josephson45r
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks, h. I keep forgetting the pitfalls of public unmonitored groups.

I hope louise still reads here occasionally and discovers the theft.

Mary

--- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "existlist" <hermitcrab65@...> wrote:
>
> Mary,
> I didn't click that link figuring it was from something bad (phishing) that
took control of Louise's email program.
>
> h.
>
> --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "Mary" <josephson45r@> wrote:
> >
> > louise,
> >
> > Is there a software application available to help open this file?
> >
> > Mary
> >
>





#50820 From: "fleeting_return" <hecubatoher@...>
Date: Sat Feb 6, 2010 9:52 pm
Subject: Re: extopical tutorial
fleeting_return
Send Email Send Email
 
Bill,

It is not at all true, that I hate the French existentialists. There was only a
general distrust, quite without hate, of French intellectual thought. My
empiricist instincts have not proved strong enough, in the event, to carry me
through the storms in recent years, and I begin to learn some new perceptions,
from Jean-Paul, especially about the nature of the Other, which I used to
suspect was mere philosophical jargon.

So my prejudices have not turned out as benignly as I thought. There need be
adequate understanding and trust, between persons of differing perspectives, for
prejudice to remain good-humoured and fruitful. Somehow this truth never found
the right expression in my life and writing. I did not succeed in communicating
certain elements of my thought, because I failed to understand what was lacking
in my perceptions. And yet, for all that, your own imaginative responses to
mine as to others' posts bring to my attention interpretations I could not find
for myself. Something for which I am thankful. Hoping that your hard-won
existential narratives
are going to re-appear here before too long.

Louise
--- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "William" <v.valleywestdental@...> wrote:
>
> While he was twisting,slowly after his recent rant there was a moment when
some mercy crept into mind. Luckily I did not push the send button.A much more
important event in the world of letters has taken place ,JD Sallinger died. I
will let some scholar fill in the ties between JD and the writers workshop. I
spent a year with a workshop professor and it makes this mickey mouse game just
a turkey shoot.
> I read "Catcher in the Rye' very early on. I do not remember the story line,I
remember it as an attitude changer. Before the book I was angry but thought I
was wrong, after the book I began to see my own perspective in a better light.
That was what the workshop demanded. Put your ideas out there and take the
blows. There are all kinds of arm chair quarterbacks out there who sit on their
spotless thrones and cherry pick as an ego boost. Like Obama says if you want to
keep your numbers up,do nothing. Thinking,it is about thinking ,not copying
others work. Sallanger and Vonnigut wrote in that slashing style which caused
emotional growth. They could make you detest yourself for being so duped by the
staid mediocracy of accepted situations.
> Now I think TC has accused Mary of being Louise. Or Louise being Mary. Where
did he get that and how is such a rumor resolved? I know Mary likes Camus and
Louise hates the French existentialists. The straw man has been a literary
device for a long time. People do it because they can. Some ideas may be so
dangerous that a straw man cover becomes the only option. I am sure the numb
nuts that memorise lists can give us numerous examples of such cover. I will
take a covered idea before I can respect a lifting. Lifting an entire persona is
an artistic achievement. This title,which I think I authored seems most apt but
then again we must suspect anything that might pose change. Bill
>





#50825 From: Herman <hhofmeister@...>
Date: Sun Feb 7, 2010 8:39 am
Subject: Re: Re: extopical tutorial
a_zygote
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Louise,

On 7 February 2010 08:52, fleeting_return <hecubatoher@...> wrote:
> Bill,
>
> It is not at all true, that I hate the French existentialists.  There was only
a general distrust, quite without hate, of French intellectual thought.  My
empiricist instincts have not proved strong enough, in the event, to carry me
through the storms in recent years, and I begin to learn some new perceptions,
from Jean-Paul, especially about the nature of the Other, which I used to
suspect was mere philosophical jargon.
>
> So my prejudices have not turned out as benignly as I thought.  There need be
adequate understanding and trust, between persons of differing perspectives, for
prejudice to remain good-humoured and fruitful.  Somehow this truth never found
the right expression in my life and writing.  I did not succeed in communicating
certain elements of my thought, because I failed to understand what was lacking
in my perceptions.  And yet, for all that, your own imaginative responses to
mine as to others' posts bring to my attention interpretations I could not find
for myself.  Something for which I am thankful.  Hoping that your hard-won
existential narratives
> are going to re-appear here before too long.
>

You do not have to be consistent.

You do not have to be anything.

You question Wil re his position on the murder of the children of the
last Csar & Csarina.

You defend Bill, who would have Tim Leary shot.

I cannot glean anything from that, apart from that perhaps personal
like and dislike plays a role.

Polly



#50835 From: "fleeting_return" <hecubatoher@...>
Date: Sun Feb 7, 2010 8:41 pm
Subject: Re: extopical tutorial
fleeting_return
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Herman <hhofmeister@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Louise,
>
> On 7 February 2010 08:52, fleeting_return <hecubatoher@...> wrote:
> > Bill,
> >
> > It is not at all true, that I hate the French existentialists.  There was
only a general distrust, quite without hate, of French intellectual thought.  My
empiricist instincts have not proved strong enough, in the event, to carry me
through the storms in recent years, and I begin to learn some new perceptions,
from Jean-Paul, especially about the nature of the Other, which I used to
suspect was mere philosophical jargon.
> >
> > So my prejudices have not turned out as benignly as I thought.  There need
be adequate understanding and trust, between persons of differing perspectives,
for prejudice to remain good-humoured and fruitful.  Somehow this truth never
found the right expression in my life and writing.  I did not succeed in
communicating certain elements of my thought, because I failed to understand
what was lacking in my perceptions.  And yet, for all that, your own imaginative
responses to mine as to others' posts bring to my attention interpretations I
could not find for myself.  Something for which I am thankful.  Hoping that your
hard-won existential narratives
> > are going to re-appear here before too long.
> >
>
> You do not have to be consistent.

No, I do not have to be consistent, but I should like to be authentic.

>
> You do not have to be anything.
>
> You question Wil re his position on the murder of the children of
> the last Csar & Csarina.

Yes, I think this was an irrational response, owing to my being upset at Wil's
charge against Bill that he was indulging homicidal fantasies. When I was
arguing, some time ago, for peaceable democratic process, I was much upset by
Wil's jokes and bloody fantasies dredged from the French Revolution, and so on.
Anyway, none of this seems a philosophic and measured response to conversation
here, so I would rather bow out of the conversation.

>
> You defend Bill, who would have Tim Leary shot.

I haven't defended his position about shooting Tim Leary.

>
> I cannot glean anything from that, apart from that perhaps personal
> like and dislike plays a role.

No, I don't think in this instance there is any differential. As I say, other
irrational factors. Hence an inauthentic response. A painful conclusion to
which your feedback, Polly, helps me.

>
> Polly
>





#50839 From: Herman <hhofmeister@...>
Date: Sun Feb 7, 2010 9:58 pm
Subject: Re: Re: extopical tutorial
a_zygote
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Louise,

On 8 February 2010 07:41, fleeting_return <hecubatoher@...> wrote:
> --- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, Herman <hhofmeister@...> wrote:
>>
>> You do not have to be consistent.
>
> No, I do not have to be consistent, but I should like to be authentic.
>
>>
>> You do not have to be anything.
>>
>> You question Wil re his position on the murder of the children of
>> the last Csar & Csarina.
>
> Yes, I think this was an irrational response, owing to my being upset at Wil's
charge against Bill that he was indulging homicidal fantasies.  When I was
arguing, some time ago, for peaceable democratic process, I was much upset by
Wil's jokes and bloody fantasies dredged from the French Revolution, and so on.
 Anyway, none of this seems a philosophic and measured response to conversation
here, so I would rather bow out of the conversation.
>

Thanks for your reply, Louise.

I would prefer a conversation with you over no conversation with you,
anytime. And, like you, I hope Bill becomes an active participant
again real soon.

Cheers


Polly



#50844 From: "Mary" <josephson45r@...>
Date: Mon Feb 8, 2010 3:56 pm
Subject: Re: extopical tutorial
josephson45r
Send Email Send Email
 
Louise, I quite obviously had problems with authenticity, hence the need for
pseudonyms. Perhaps it's fear of disagreement and conflict. I've not been able
to thoroughly determine if understanding others undermines my own thoughts and
emotions, or I actually don't have any of my own. How can I be authentic if I
keep changing my mind? Mary

--- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "fleeting_return" <hecubatoher@...> wrote:

No, I do not have to be consistent, but I should like to be authentic.




#50848 From: Herman <hhofmeister@...>
Date: Mon Feb 8, 2010 10:21 pm
Subject: Re: Re: extopical tutorial
a_zygote
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Mary, Tom and all,

On 9 February 2010 02:56, Mary <josephson45r@...> wrote:
> Louise, I quite obviously had problems with authenticity, hence the need for
pseudonyms. Perhaps it's fear of disagreement and conflict. I've not been able
to thoroughly determine if understanding others undermines my own thoughts and
emotions, or I actually don't have any of my own. How can I be authentic if I
keep changing my mind?

Like Tom, I see authenticity as a work in progress. My own take on it
is that one has become an authentic person when the same core values
are on display, no matter what situation. This would be in contrast
with an opportunistic mindset. I think it comes back to how one sees
the boundary between self / other, and whether one believes it is
possible to outsmart the system and have or be a value while denying
that for others.

Reaching authenticity is not easy, I don't know many contemporary
examples of authentic people, Gandhi comes to mind, and Mandela. I
don't think that being a leader and authentic necessarily go hand in
hand, it's just that authentic people are unshakeable in their
understanding and resolve. (that doesn't mean that unshakeable people
are necessarily authentic, there is that certain unshakeable,
unfounded faith in oneself a la George W that lacks all insight into
itself). Still, when more than 50% vote for you, that's where things
are at. Just like South Africa can replace a Mandela with a Zuma, who
has 20 kids, 4 wives, and still finds it necessary to find more women
to mount.

Polly



#50849 From: eupraxis@...
Date: Mon Feb 8, 2010 10:55 pm
Subject: Re: Re: extopical tutorial
wsindarius
Send Email Send Email
 

Polly,

This would be your own definition of authenticity? It wouldn't be anything like
Heidegger's or anything like what Sartre talks about.

Wil


-----Original Message-----
From: Herman <hhofmeister@...>
To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 4:21 pm
Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: extopical tutorial





Hi Mary, Tom and all,

On 9 February 2010 02:56, Mary <josephson45r@...> wrote:
> Louise, I quite obviously had problems with authenticity, hence the need for
pseudonyms. Perhaps it's fear of disagreement and conflict. I've not been able
to thoroughly determine if understanding others undermines my own thoughts and
emotions, or I actually don't have any of my own. How can I be authentic if I
keep changing my mind?

Like Tom, I see authenticity as a work in progress. My own take on it
is that one has become an authentic person when the same core values
are on display, no matter what situation. This would be in contrast
with an opportunistic mindset. I think it comes back to how one sees
the boundary between self / other, and whether one believes it is
possible to outsmart the system and have or be a value while denying
that for others.

Reaching authenticity is not easy, I don't know many contemporary
examples of authentic people, Gandhi comes to mind, and Mandela. I
don't think that being a leader and authentic necessarily go hand in
hand, it's just that authentic people are unshakeable in their
understanding and resolve. (that doesn't mean that unshakeable people
are necessarily authentic, there is that certain unshakeable,
unfounded faith in oneself a la George W that lacks all insight into
itself). Still, when more than 50% vote for you, that's where things
are at. Just like South Africa can replace a Mandela with a Zuma, who
has 20 kids, 4 wives, and still finds it necessary to find more women
to mount.

Polly








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




#50850 From: Herman <hhofmeister@...>
Date: Mon Feb 8, 2010 11:28 pm
Subject: Re: Re: extopical tutorial
a_zygote
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Wil,

On 9 February 2010 09:55, <eupraxis@...> wrote:
>
>  Polly,
>
> This would be your own definition of authenticity? It wouldn't be anything
like Heidegger's or anything like what Sartre talks about.
>
>

I guess mine is an extension of Sartre's version. It recognises that
being for others and being for self become identical when one stops
lying about oneself.

Polly




Wil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Herman <hhofmeister@...>
> To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, Feb 8, 2010 4:21 pm
> Subject: Re: [existlist] Re: extopical tutorial
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Mary, Tom and all,
>
> On 9 February 2010 02:56, Mary <josephson45r@...> wrote:
>> Louise, I quite obviously had problems with authenticity, hence the need for
pseudonyms. Perhaps it's fear of disagreement and conflict. I've not been able
to thoroughly determine if understanding others undermines my own thoughts and
emotions, or I actually don't have any of my own. How can I be authentic if I
keep changing my mind?
>
> Like Tom, I see authenticity as a work in progress. My own take on it
> is that one has become an authentic person when the same core values
> are on display, no matter what situation. This would be in contrast
> with an opportunistic mindset. I think it comes back to how one sees
> the boundary between self / other, and whether one believes it is
> possible to outsmart the system and have or be a value while denying
> that for others.
>
> Reaching authenticity is not easy, I don't know many contemporary
> examples of authentic people, Gandhi comes to mind, and Mandela. I
> don't think that being a leader and authentic necessarily go hand in
> hand, it's just that authentic people are unshakeable in their
> understanding and resolve. (that doesn't mean that unshakeable people
> are necessarily authentic, there is that certain unshakeable,
> unfounded faith in oneself a la George W that lacks all insight into
> itself). Still, when more than 50% vote for you, that's where things
> are at. Just like South Africa can replace a Mandela with a Zuma, who
> has 20 kids, 4 wives, and still finds it necessary to find more women
> to mount.
>
> Polly
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
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#50845 From: "tom" <tsmith17_midsouth1@...>
Date: Mon Feb 8, 2010 4:54 pm
Subject: Re: Re: extopical tutorial
devogney
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Mary,

I don't believe that you changing your mind necesarily involves you not being
authentic. Here is one of the definitions of authentic I found online : true to
one's own personality, spirit, or character.From that framework, your views are
authentic expressions of yourself at different times. Several things can be
involved in changes of mind. One is the acquisition of new facts or
experiences;we move into different roles,and different values within the psche
may emerge to become the more dominant. George Soros prides himself on his
ability to admit mistakes and apply appropriate correctives. He says that is the
key to his financial success. One of his primary ideas is the concept of
fallibility, which assumes that our ideas about reality will probablynot match
reality 100%, but hopefully we can progressivly move closer both as individuals
and society.And as for values, the Bhagavad Gita potrayed the leading character,
Arjuna, torn between two loyalties as two armies prepare to fight. The book is
the discource Arjuna has with Krishna, his universal self, concerning this.

Anyway, changing is usually indicative of growing;whereas views that are
unchanged after many years often indicates being stuck.

Peace,
Tom

----- Original Message -----
From: Mary
To: existlist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 9:56 AM
Subject: [existlist] Re: extopical tutorial



Louise, I quite obviously had problems with authenticity, hence the need for
pseudonyms. Perhaps it's fear of disagreement and conflict. I've not been able
to thoroughly determine if understanding others undermines my own thoughts and
emotions, or I actually don't have any of my own. How can I be authentic if I
keep changing my mind? Mary

--- In existlist@yahoogroups.com, "fleeting_return" <hecubatoher@...> wrote:

No, I do not have to be consistent, but I should like to be authentic.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




 
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